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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2100<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
re: Ancients<BR>
RE: Ancients<BR>
Re: Sword World names<BR>
Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again<BR>
re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
"For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re:  Rim Cover<BR>
Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Colonial Tech Levels<BR>
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
Fwd: FirstName (http://www.firstname.com/)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:36:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 10:23 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The problem lies more with rather dull people who on<BR>
>the other hand think that they are very clever but are<BR>
>unable to understand anything that isn't served on a<BR>
>tablet to them.<BR>
<BR>
John, you aren't witty, you aren't being clever, and I can speak for the<BR>
four people in this apartment who read the TML in saying you can get quite<BR>
annoying.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:14:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
At 01:51 PM 3/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I say it was difficult, but eventually happened. You seem to<BR>
>think that if it could have happened, it would have happened<BR>
>thousands of years earlier than it did. Do you also contend<BR>
>that ice-age man had nuclear energy? It was difficult, but<BR>
>think about it, they had thousands of years to work on it<BR>
>by then...<BR>
<BR>
The Inca had the wheel. They used for toys. The Greeks had all the parts to<BR>
build steam engines, but never made the connections.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:36:36 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
At 13:37 -0500 16/3/00, john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
>Hardly.After all,it would boil down to some humanoids<BR>
>and  Droyne.<BR>
>And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it<BR>
>be that the connection was made after all,with<BR>
>thousands of unprovable theories?<BR>
>(well,the answer is of course "canon")<BR>
<BR>
The answer is two encounters in the early early 1100's - one with a <BR>
fully operational base (Adv 3), the second with Grandfather himself <BR>
(Adv 12). Everything else was either destroyed or a minor artifact.<BR>
<BR>
 From Adv 3;<BR>
<BR>
p 37/38 "Many facilities within the base appear to be missing, such <BR>
as sanitary facilities, computer links, and repair shops or <BR>
maintenance arrangements. All are normally concealed within the walls <BR>
and floors of the structure and are called upon when needed."<BR>
<BR>
p38 "Computer links are not immediately obvious because they worked <BR>
directly with the base personnel. Each Individual was tracked at all <BR>
times by a psionic link to the computer that provided information and <BR>
calculations on the spot'.<BR>
<BR>
Note the Early Imperium tried to prove that humans were the Ancients <BR>
(Archon Hypothesis).<BR>
Note the late Imperium is anti-psionic.<BR>
<BR>
p57 '..such artifacts of high technology as can be grabbed from the <BR>
Ancient base could be of great value: the anti-matter battery alone <BR>
is priceless. Against this is balanced the fact that most objects <BR>
will be incomprehensible to humans.'<BR>
<BR>
The artifacts are at least TL25. The difference between a star <BR>
travelling culture and a cave man. Effectively magic.<BR>
<BR>
p57 'One last point should be made clear. The evidence is in after <BR>
the discovery of Droyne in an Ancient Base. The Droyne are the <BR>
Ancients. ..'<BR>
<BR>
It is known that the Ancients used planet buster bomb, planetoids, <BR>
and weapons which could utterly destroy the Ancient site without <BR>
harming the world. (AM5 The Droyne) There is also a section on why <BR>
the Droyne were not recognised as Ancients - basically, there was <BR>
bugger all evidence and humans only really took control of the sector <BR>
in which the Ancient (Droyne) homeworld was in during the 700s (p7 <BR>
AM5).<BR>
<BR>
Using T4 as a basis for arguing about the Droyne/Ancients link is <BR>
flawed as it makes the error of referring the the Ancients as Droyne <BR>
in player briefs. This was not known in M0, nor disseminated until <BR>
the 1100s, which then had a nice war to detract from it FFW/the <BR>
Collapse). This is another example of IG's lack of knowledge of the <BR>
Traveller background.<BR>
<BR>
>It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what<BR>
>results  police scientist get by reconstructing events.<BR>
<BR>
There is very little evidence before Twilight's Peak occurs in the <BR>
pre-FFW period. They wiped each other out with mega-death weapons and <BR>
precision weapons of destruction. The 3I only really took control of <BR>
the SM in 700+. In the 600s we had the Civil War. M0 to M200 was a <BR>
period devoted to expansion and trade. There were efforts to prove <BR>
the Archon Hypothesis pre-600. What little survived for <BR>
archaeologists was indistinguishable from magic in most cases, unless <BR>
they were psionically capable. The Vilani were stagnant and didn't <BR>
really absorb the high Droyne content worlds. The RoM collapsed and <BR>
utterly devastated the knowledge base for a thousand years.<BR>
<BR>
There is *no* *obvious* evidence that the Droyne are the Ancients. <BR>
Humaniti *wanted* to prove that they were the Ancients. Humaniti <BR>
looked in the wrong place, at minimal information.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:37:49 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Sword World names<BR>
<BR>
Sword-Worlder writes:<BR>
<BR>
>My version goes, "Somebody thought it would be nifty to use the world names<BR>
>from H. Beam Piper's book 'Space Viking', so they did a cut and paste with<BR>
>the names, but never bothered to *read* the book." If you'd like to blame<BR>
>it on some dude skimming the book during the cruise or someone at GDW whose<BR>
>brain was in Xerox mode.  To me it just sounds like the law suit that was<BR>
>deserved, but never happened.<BR>
> <BR>
>Geez, that sounds rather bitter, doesn't it?  Sorry about that ;-)<BR>
<BR>
It also IMO sounds quite unwarranted. Marc Miller propably knew of Piper's<BR>
Sword Worlds and used the idea of a group of people who used sword names<BR>
for their worlds as a tip of the hat to him, though it's also quite<BR>
possible that he just had the idea of his own. People do think alike,<BR>
you know. But going from that to accusing him of plagiarizing Piper is<BR>
a long step.<BR>
<BR>
In any case, the idea that an author could acquire sole rights to a concept<BR>
like naming worlds after a group of artifacts sounds quite ludicrous to me,<BR>
and I'm an author. Not that anything I heard about American legal shenanigans<BR>
would surprise me after seeing various American legal shows ;-).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        'There was a man,'  remarked Captain Eliot, 'who was sentenced<BR>
    to death for stealing a horse from a common. He said to the judge,<BR>
    that  he  thought it hard to be hanged for stealing a horse from a<BR>
    common  and  the  judge  answered,  "You  are not to be hanged for<BR>
    stealing  a  horse  from  a common,  but that others may not steal<BR>
    horses from commons." '<BR>
        'And do you find,' asked Stephen, 'that in fact horses are not<BR>
    daily stolen from commons? You do not!'<BR>
<BR>
                        --- "The Mauritius Command" by Patrick O'Brian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:58:16 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again<BR>
<BR>
At 13:12 -0500 16/3/00, john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
>I knew that this argument would come up.For a<BR>
>gearhead,TNE is probably sinful:it lacks the rules for<BR>
>spending endless time constructing starships.From a<BR>
>roleplayers point of view,it contains everything;the<BR>
>pregenerated ships are more than enough.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller has always had a ship construction system though. TNE broke <BR>
with this. Even Starter Edition had a starship system. Every other <BR>
edition has a ship construction system.<BR>
<BR>
 From a SFRPG player's perspective (mine, as valid as anyones') TNE <BR>
was therefore missing a key way of supporting a campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:53:54 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
At 13:12 -0500 16/3/00, Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
>Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for "Rim of Fire".<BR>
>Here's the info I need.  Since the cover is going to show Earth, and a<BR>
>starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of in-system traffic), has<BR>
>there ever been any published mention and / or illustrations of the main<BR>
>Earth starport?<BR>
<BR>
Piccies no, but there was a WD article/adventure about an orbital <BR>
tour, which would be really cool. But I suspect that is not Traveller <BR>
canon. There may have been something in Survival Margin's TNS <BR>
entries, but no details.<BR>
<BR>
Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual Europe or US, <BR>
and/or show it from the perspective of a Earth eclipse of the moon so <BR>
you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:40:11 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:28 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >A: The Droyne didn't start from scratch. They already<BR>
> >had established tech and thus standards. <BR>
<BR>
> Sorry, but according to the primary sources, the Ancients did reinvent<BR>
> everthing from the ground up, at every site they occupied. Even the most<BR>
> basic things were changed. One place might use screws, the next molecular<BR>
> glue, the next carefully fitted shapes... and that's just to hold two<BR>
> things together.<BR>
> Imagine each of Yaskodray's progeny as mad scientists, and complete<BR>
> monomaniacs. They all did things their way. <BR>
<BR>
Doug are you saying that the Ancients were all Frank Sinatra fans?<BR>
<BR>
My take on it is that the Ancients bore a resemblance to Mage's<BR>
from the World of Darkness - their technology worked because<BR>
it fit their paradigm of reality, their world view. Ancients<BR>
are like Sons of Ether Magi, the weird technology is just a<BR>
focus for their will. The only difference is that in Traveller<BR>
magic is called psionics :)<BR>
<BR>
The only reason most Ancient artifacts don't work is that<BR>
Imperial era archeologists find a "broken" item and assume it<BR>
won't work. Because they don't think it will work it does not.<BR>
In reality the "broken" artifacts are perfectly functional if<BR>
you believe that they will work. This is why so much of Ancient<BR>
technology is "psionic". Ancient disintegrator don't really <BR>
require a "telepathy" to activate them; rather the ability to <BR>
tell the universe, using the "disintegrator" as a focus that <BR>
your target should go away requires the mystical power, the <BR>
will to change static reality,  that the poor ignorant <BR>
Imperial era fools interpret as "Psionics."<BR>
<BR>
It is all just a matter of the will and the word. Most <BR>
"Psionicists" have discrete talents (Telepathy, Teleportation,<BR>
Telekinesis, Clairvoyance, and Awareness) because their instructors<BR>
in the mystic ways, their "Psionics Institute" if you will<BR>
belong to a Tradition (in the full Mage sense of the word) that<BR>
believed this was reality and so their belief became reality.<BR>
This also explains why the Hivers are non psionic - they don't<BR>
_believe_.<BR>
<BR>
A few of these "Psionicists" can sometimes learn a little more<BR>
flexibility in their rotes, the Psionic Institutions merely<BR>
describe these individuals as having "Special" Psionic talents.<BR>
Little do they realize that their whole "Psionic" world view<BR>
is wrong.<BR>
<BR>
Or at least the above makes an interesting argument :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:46:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> At 10:33 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>  The<BR>
> lowliest sailor in the US Navy uses technology that<BR>
> the President of<BR>
> Liberia can't even begin to imagine.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps.But The Droyne are more like the US prez in<BR>
this analogy,or not?And he has resources that far<BR>
greater than a simple navy man.Don't mix apples with<BR>
peaches.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
A similar argument with rome was brought up.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> >Which is more than enough for modern science.Only<BR>
> >crackpot Institutes wouldn't come up with a<BR>
> suitable<BR>
> >research result concerning such an important<BR>
> question.<BR>
> >Exept perhaps Bob Jones University.Even the<BR>
> University<BR>
> >of Copenhagen would get some results(they have<BR>
> >recently  discovered that the Earth isn't flat<BR>
> ,after all)<BR>
<BR>
> We had no idea about ancient Egypt until the Rosetta<BR>
> stone was found. None.<BR>
 That's simply untrue.We knew a lot.Just look into the<BR>
bible for info.And Greeks and Romans left even more.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:47:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>A pen is useful for far more than writing, in that it can<BR>
>instantly be converted to a graphics input device, a control <BR>
>device, and (with the proper stylus) a deadly Ninja killing <BR>
>tool ;-)<BR>
<BR>
The Cross standard stainless steel pen is eminently well suited<BR>
for that purpose; don't leave home without it.  (See also Grosse<BR>
Pointe Blank:  "Thanks for that pen, man, it saved my life"<BR>
(which was a fountain pen, I think).)  Ling Standard Products,<BR>
Hardware Division, makes a line of commemorative steel pens and<BR>
pencils, usually given as gifts, as they have become obsolete in<BR>
the Far Future, but still look nice.<BR>
<BR>
Also, let's not forget the ancient Japanese martial art<BR>
practiced by Nicholas Hel in which any ordinary object can be<BR>
used as a deadly weapon (many unwitting practitioners of this<BR>
art use automobiles as their weapon of choice).  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:47:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
At 02:12 PM 3/16/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 3/16/00 6:28:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< nd how he fares against left-handed red heads.<BR>
><BR>
>Hey Penguin Boy! Watch it; I'm a left handed read head....:-)<BR>
<BR>
I'm a left-handed Deadhead. Although I snipe right.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:55:01 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith writes:<BR>
<BR>
>john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>>The problem lies more with rather dull people who on <BR>
>>the other hand think that they are very clever but are <BR>
>>unable to understand anything that isn't served on a <BR>
>>tablet to them. <BR>
> <BR>
>"Everyone else must be a bunch of idiots, none of them<BR>
>realize how witty and insightful I am."<BR>
> <BR>
>Doesn't Occam's Razor hurt when you slide down the blade<BR>
>of it like that?<BR>
<BR>
Well, at least he is amusing, if only unintentionally so. Still, a little<BR>
of such foolishness goes a long way. As far as I'm concerned you have my<BR>
permission to stop now, Mr. Hamilton.<BR>
<BR>
>The defense of bad grammar is a lost cause around here, John. C'mon,<BR>
>let's get back to believability of 3I xenoarchaeology, it's more fun!<BR>
<BR>
I couldn't agree more.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."<BR>
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:56:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>The seventh inning stretch exists for the baseball grognards <BR>
>who need time to update their stats, like how Barry Bonds bats <BR>
>on days when the Dow Jones falls more than 20 points, and how <BR>
>he fares against left-handed red heads.<BR>
<BR>
Thank God for the Palm Pilot, eh?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:00:46 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it<BR>
>>be that the connection was made after all,with<BR>
>>thousands of unprovable theories?<BR>
>>(well,the answer is of course "canon")<BR>
> <BR>
>The connection was made in Adv. 12 when the PCs meet Yaskodray.<BR>
 <BR>
You must have missed my previous post on this subject, Doug. According to<BR>
AM5 the connection was made about 300 years earlier. I don't have the book<BR>
with me, so I can't give you the page, but it's there.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:50:33 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes,<BR>
>To shake the apathy, I have a suggestion: The TML 2000 Landgrab. <BR>
><BR>
>Anyone interested takes a world in the Spinward Marches and details the<BR>
>hell out of it. First In would be preferred, but any of the earlier<BR>
>systems will be acceptable. climate, Culture, Ecosystems, Government,<BR>
>odd laws, religions, notable events for 1100-1120, linguistic notes..<BR>
>everything to make each world a living experience.<BR>
><BR>
>Unlike the THUDDD, these would be cooperative endeavors. If I need help<BR>
>with determining if a certain set of laws is feasible, I can call upon<BR>
>the assembled brains of the TML for help; if somebody has a question<BR>
>about how an army would be organized, I'd probably be able to answer.<BR>
>This would stimulate the already fascinating conversations we have<BR>
>here.<BR>
><BR>
>As we finish, we post our worlds either here or on a web site (to be<BR>
>named later) for everyone's use. Then you take another world. Doesn't<BR>
>matter how long it takes, but the end result should be a living planet.<BR>
><BR>
>I dibs Regina/Heya (2402)<BR>
><BR>
><MST3K>Well, what do you think, Sirs?</MST3K><BR>
<BR>
I think it's a great idea! This is exactly the sort of thing I like to<BR>
see on the TML. The recent discussion of underwater habitats arose<BR>
because I was trying to add realistic and interesting detail to a world.<BR>
<BR>
I have other Traveller writing commitments at the moment, plus my first<BR>
child due in April, so I will only be doing this as a background task<BR>
for a while. I'm happy to take an out-of-the-way world whose lack of<BR>
development won't hinder anyone else - how about somewhere off-route in<BR>
Trin's Veil, such as Prilissa (3035)?<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes it's handy to think about a region. If there are not too many<BR>
people involved I'd prefer to take a broader look at the subsector and<BR>
then provisionally "nab" a group of (economically) minor worlds within<BR>
it. OTOH Trin is such a dominant force (highest TL and population by<BR>
far) that I'd probably want to take it on if nobody else does.<BR>
<BR>
One idea might be to put together a big list of canon and non-canon info<BR>
available on the worlds that people could refer to:<BR>
<BR>
 * Books (e.g., The Traveller Adventure, Twilight's Peak)<BR>
 * Amber Zones (Crystals on Dinom)<BR>
 * TNS entries<BR>
 * HIWG docs<BR>
 * RICE papers<BR>
 * Other websites<BR>
 * TML archives<BR>
<BR>
For instance, I have used the world notes Rob Dean posted years ago<BR>
describing about two dozen worlds in Glisten and District 268.<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:17:09 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Or show the Pacific rim which is also known as Ring of Fire<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual Europe or US, <BR>
>and/or show it from the perspective of a Earth eclipse of the moon so <BR>
>you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:10:37 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Rim Cover<BR>
<BR>
Jessie,<BR>
   The only product to feature a Space Station around Terran orbit was a <BR>
Traveller Chronicle...it also had a nice shot of Columbia.  Judging from the <BR>
configration, I always assumed it was the L5 colony.  What would be nice <BR>
would be a take on the Voyager picture that showed Terra and Luna together.  <BR>
To download a copy it would be on the Sword of the Knight homepage under <BR>
traveller chronicle...if they have gone kaput I am sure I could russle up a <BR>
colour photocopy if someone else on the list cannot send you a scan.  A <BR>
pity, I was hoping that you were going to do something with people in it for <BR>
the Rim.  Keep up the EXCELLENT work!!!<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Boris Cibic<BR>
kafka47@hotmail.com<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:12:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
I had written:<BR>
>> Well, we know that the Elves ended up very close to the Sword<BR>
>>Worlds.<BR>
<BR>
You replied:<BR>
>Okay, I don't recall anything of the sort in MT and stated the<BR>
>above as a joke. Please enlighten me on your response Glenn.<BR>
>Where did they end up? What supplement in which version?<BR>
<BR>
It's generally accepted (on the TML anyway) that the Darrians<BR>
are Elves in Space.  The Darrians are of course in the subsector<BR>
adjacent to the Sword Worlds.  See Alien Module 7 (or whatever<BR>
the number is): The Darrians, especially the cover picture.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:15:07 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
>--- Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
>> But millions of scientist, using such conflicting<BR>
>> evidence, and the fact<BR>
>> that communication lags hinder exchange of ideas,<BR>
>> and political borders<BR>
>> leave many sites unavailable for study, will come up<BR>
>> with hundreds, if<BR>
>> not thousands of theories<BR>
><BR>
>Hardly.After all,it would boil down to some humanoids<BR>
>and  Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Remember though, there were only c. 420 Ancients, and over 200 *known*<BR>
systems containing evidence of the presence of the Ancients. So they were<BR>
spread pretty thinly.<BR>
<BR>
Also, although all the Ancients were Droyne, the reverse is not true.  The<BR>
Droyne facilities at Ancient sites would be no different in terms of quality<BR>
to Human, Vargr or any other assistant race.<BR>
<BR>
>And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it<BR>
>be that the connection was made after all,with<BR>
>thousands of unprovable theories?<BR>
>(well,the answer is of course "canon")<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
A theory can be disproved if false rather more easily than a true theory can<BR>
be proved if true. Over time you can whittle the theories down to a handfull<BR>
that cannot be 'disproved', but that doesn't mean that they are all true, it<BR>
just means that the full facts are unavailable, and given the current level<BR>
of knowledge any of them *could* be true.<BR>
<BR>
After all, the Vilani had been in space for nearly 11000 years by the time<BR>
the secret is finally broken, thats a lot of time for the more crackpot<BR>
theories to be weeded out.<BR>
<BR>
And anyway, after the PC's actually meet Yaskodray, they can go around<BR>
convincing people <g><BR>
<BR>
>>as to who the ancients<BR>
>> were. None of them are<BR>
>> provable.<BR>
><BR>
>It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what<BR>
>results  police scientist get by reconstructing events.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but the evidence they are dealing with is vastly different. The<BR>
disintegrators used by the Ancients Droyne guards in Adv3 Twilight's Peak<BR>
simply cause the target they think about to vanish without trace.  Try<BR>
reconstructing *that* forensically.<BR>
<BR>
Moreover, the reconstruction of events of 300000 years ago is the province<BR>
of archaeologists. As I am an archaeologist by training I feel qualified to<BR>
say that it can be almost impossible to identify the use or purpose of<BR>
*Human* artefacts even from just a few hundred years ago.  It's well known<BR>
that, in archaeological circles, a 'ritual' object/place/offering etc means<BR>
that "we don't know what the f*ck they used this for, or how, or why, but<BR>
they obviously spent a lot of time and effort on it so it must have mattered<BR>
to them somehow... let's call it ritual until someone else figures it out."<BR>
<BR>
I would expect that over 99.9999% of all known Ancient artefacts are sitting<BR>
in museums or research labs, with labels saying 'Ritual Ancient Artefact<BR>
(inoperative)' or 'Fragment of unidentified Ancient Artefact"<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:13:11 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Dixon" <cdixon@airfoiltech.com><BR>
Subject: Colonial Tech Levels<BR>
<BR>
Ok, It seems the general consensus on the list is that colonies have a<BR>
lower TL than the homeworld.<BR>
<BR>
As a "for instance"  Terra circa Vilani Empire era has a TL of 11.  A<BR>
colony is established on a previously unsettled rimward world.  What do<BR>
you think the "average" colonial tech level might be under those<BR>
circumstances.<BR>
<BR>
I can't see a regression back to the Bronze Age just because you're a<BR>
colony but It's not likely that they could build starships either.<BR>
<BR>
In this scenario it seems to me that Terran colonial worlds would enjoy<BR>
a higher average Tech level than Vilani subject worlds.  So how long<BR>
would it take one of these Shake & Bake colonies to catch up tech wise<BR>
to the homeworld.?<BR>
<BR>
- -Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:16:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
It might take more energy to open a portal to jump space from<BR>
deep inside a gravity well than from a point distant from large<BR>
bodies.  I haven't really been following this thread for a<BR>
while.  I hope nobody tries it in my Traveller universe, because<BR>
then I'll have to make up my mind.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:24:05 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Fwd: FirstName (http://www.firstname.com/)<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_44862a77_754aa799$3e559b4<BR>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<BR>
<BR>
Pretty cool, eh?  Pity I can't use it.<BR>
<BR>
>http://www.firstname.com/<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
[InternetShortcut]<BR>
URL=http://www.firstname.com/<BR>
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<BR>
<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_44862a77_754aa799$3e559b4--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2100<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2101</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/16/00 2:07:43 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2101<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
RE: Ancients<BR>
Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
No subject worth talking about.<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
More on Gift Subs<BR>
RE: Galanglic character set<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
RE: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"-or humor and the TML [sic]<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
re: Ancients<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:24:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>As I come upstairs, it reads my physical characteristics, am I <BR>
>moving quickly? Slowly? Am I sweaty?<BR>
>Based on these criteria, the house sees what kind of music i <BR>
>might want, and determines if now is a good time to tell me <BR>
>about my phone messages. <BR>
<BR>
Bills paid and pizza ordered?  If the house is really reading<BR>
what I'm feeling like when I get home from work, it's going to<BR>
say,<BR>
<BR>
"The sauna is ready now, sir, and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon<BR>
have been summoned.  A cold Red Tail Ale is on the dining table,<BR>
and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon will have Finnish sausages,<BR>
pickles, and rye toast waiting for you when you leave the sauna.<BR>
 Bedroom temperature will stabilize at 85F."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:24:22 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry posted:<BR>
><BR>
> Imagine trying to reconstruct North American culture with the<BR>
following items:<BR>
><BR>
> "Aoxomoxoa" The Grateful Dead, on 8-track.<BR>
> The July, 1987 Playboy.<BR>
> Am empty Coke can.<BR>
> The distributor cap from a 1989 Chevy Corsica<BR>
><BR>
> That's the challenge faced by Ancient researchers.<BR>
<BR>
Especially when the second item is constantly being studied by the<BR>
lead researcher.<BR>
<BR>
<weg> <duck> <run><BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:40:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It's generally accepted (on the TML anyway) that the Darrians<BR>
> are Elves in Space.  The Darrians are of course in the subsector<BR>
> adjacent to the Sword Worlds.  See Alien Module 7 (or whatever<BR>
> the number is): The Darrians, especially the cover picture.  <BR>
<BR>
So does that make SolSec Pigs in Space?<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:43:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It might take more energy to open a portal to jump space from<BR>
> deep inside a gravity well than from a point distant from large<BR>
> bodies.<BR>
<BR>
That's sounds reasonable to me.  I'd say the ship would end up frying<BR>
its zucchini crystals.<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:44:15 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It should be no surprise that I hereby claim Mongo/Jewell for<BR>
> the purposes of the TML 2000 Landgrab.<BR>
<BR>
And it should come as even less of a surprise that I do the same for<BR>
Esalin/Jewell.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:53:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Dixon" <cdixon@airfoiltech.com><BR>
Subject: Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
<BR>
My two cents:<BR>
<BR>
In Trillion Credit Squadron it mentions that the Colony ships were built<BR>
by Beltmetalfabrikant (s.p.) AG and The French O'Neil space colony.<BR>
O'Neil colonies are usually at one of the La Grange points so you could<BR>
see it from Earth or Lunar orbit depending on the angle you draw the<BR>
picture at.<BR>
<BR>
IMHO, an O'Neil colony would be very cool as part of the cover.<BR>
<BR>
Check out http://members.aol.com/oscarcombs/settle.htm for some very<BR>
cool pictures/ideas.<BR>
<BR>
- -Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:54:22 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
> He's referring to the Darrians.  "Elves in space" is a fairly accurate<BR>
> description of the Darrians.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Jason.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:55:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
> << nd how he fares against left-handed red heads.<BR>
>   >><BR>
> Hey Penguin Boy! Watch it; I'm a left handed read head....:-)<BR>
<BR>
So how does he fare against you?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:58:24 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for "Rim of Fire".<BR>
> Here's the info I need.  Since the cover is going to show Earth, and a<BR>
> starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of in-system traffic), has<BR>
> there ever been any published mention and / or illustrations of the main<BR>
> Earth starport?<BR>
<BR>
Not to my knowlege either.  It's almost given that Lagrange, AECO, and<BR>
Phoenix/Paulo all have High Ports, probably spaced in geostationary<BR>
orbits roughly over their ground port, 120 degrees apart.  Lagrange is<BR>
in northwest Australia, AECO in Libya, and Paulo in Arizona.  There may<BR>
be something in TD #13 or #14, where they discuss the Marine Occupation<BR>
Force; I vaguely recall they kept heavy equipment at the high port.<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall what's said about L4/L5 point stations, if any, but there<BR>
may be a reference in Solomani & Aslan or Digest #13.<BR>
<BR>
The Dragon #87 article gives Luna a F-class spaceport at Copernicus, which<BR>
isn't used at full capacity any more; the naval base is a separate facility<BR>
at Theophilus, with fighter/SDB pads scattered around a wide area.  Sinus<BR>
Iridum got strip mined in the Long Night, and the Lunar Preservationists<BR>
are still working at repairing the damage.  <BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:58:14 -0000<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribemrhamiltonsincrediblytediousifnottosaycompletelyincomprehensibleduetothelackofpunctuation<BR>
grammarlogicalorproperlythoughtoutargumentspersonalcompletelyuninformedyettotallyvociferousandopinio<BR>
natedpersonalrantlisttobetoattllyhonestimgoingtothepubforacoupleofsherbetsbecauseicantbearsedreading<BR>
hispostsanymore<BR>
<BR>
seeyouothersontheothersideoftenpintsofbestbitter<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:03:00 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> And anyway, after the PC's actually meet Yaskodray, they can go around<BR>
> convincing people <g><BR>
<BR>
Yah Right! Convincing people that the PC's need to be confined to some<BR>
little rubber rooms, perhaps. ;-)<BR>
 <BR>
> >>as to who the ancients<BR>
> >> were. None of them are<BR>
> >> provable.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what<BR>
> >results  police scientist get by reconstructing events.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes, but the evidence they are dealing with is vastly different. The<BR>
> disintegrators used by the Ancients Droyne guards in Adv3 Twilight's Peak<BR>
> simply cause the target they think about to vanish without trace.  Try<BR>
> reconstructing *that* forensically.<BR>
> <BR>
> Moreover, the reconstruction of events of 300000 years ago is the province<BR>
> of archaeologists. As I am an archaeologist by training I feel qualified to<BR>
> say that it can be almost impossible to identify the use or purpose of<BR>
> *Human* artefacts even from just a few hundred years ago.  It's well known<BR>
> that, in archaeological circles, a 'ritual' object/place/offering etc means<BR>
> that "we don't know what the f*ck they used this for, or how, or why, but<BR>
> they obviously spent a lot of time and effort on it so it must have mattered<BR>
> to them somehow... let's call it ritual until someone else figures it out."<BR>
<BR>
There was an interesting article regarding cultural biases and artifact<BR>
interpretation in a recent issue of Natural History. <BR>
<BR>
In most archaeological digs of places where people have lived for years,<BR>
all sorts of small objects are found, miniature versions of bowls,<BR>
tools, animals, etc, as well as other, harder to identify items, like<BR>
round disks with a couple holes in the middle.<BR>
<BR>
Since everything in a dig site is Deadly Serious, in the past most of<BR>
the small objects were identified as ritual items, shaman's totems, etc. <BR>
<BR>
Of course not. <BR>
<BR>
Many of the items were _toys_ used by small children. Sort of like drug<BR>
studies and long term health studies that determine quite well how drugs<BR>
act in middle class middle aged mostly white males,  many of the<BR>
archaeologists were focusing on _adult_ uses of these objects, as though<BR>
adults were the only ones living there.<BR>
<BR>
The round disks ended up not being buttons, as first supposed, but<BR>
twirling toys. <BR>
(That conclusion was reached when an archaeologist noticed some local<BR>
children playing with an identically constructed toy made in the same<BR>
way of the same materials...except modern twine was being used instead<BR>
of the sinew or leather  of the original. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, there are some native american figurines that were on<BR>
display in a museum somewhere in the midwest labelled as 'children's<BR>
dolls'. The embarrased curators had to change the titles, and their<BR>
catalog when an an _actual_ Native American saw them and recognized them<BR>
for the ritual items they were ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Granted this is generalization, but such biases are hard to escape when<BR>
interpreting fragmentary, objects of unknown function, as there's truly<BR>
no other basis for interpretation but analogy to whatever you _do_ know.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:12:43 -0600<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: More on Gift Subs<BR>
<BR>
Forgot to mention -- each gift sub extends your own sub by a month --<BR>
http://jtas.sjgames.com/subscribe/gift.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager<BR>
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>
          http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     LKW@IO.COM<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:14:46 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Galanglic character set<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the font, Jesse.<BR>
So if it's Bilandin, why are all the samples of it in illustrations in<BR>
English (albeit with a Vilani character set)?  If the Vilani took all the<BR>
trouble to learn English (or Anglic), wouldn't they have learned to use the<BR>
Roman alphabet too?  There seems to be plenty of illustrative evidence that<BR>
it's still in use.<BR>
(I imagine the real reason is that the illustrators weren't consistant, but<BR>
I'd like to hear an in-game explanation)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
Hey Jason, it's not Galanglic it's Bilanidin which was originally intended<BR>
to be a Vilani "phonetic alphabet". In the time since it was released it has<BR>
become the "de facto" Traveller funky script.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:22:51 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
    Great responses guys. I really liked Glenn's initial<BR>
response in relating games of the hunt to Vargr.<BR>
    What types of sports do you think would be developed<BR>
for the various races? why? How about some actual<BR>
"rules" on those ends?<BR>
<BR>
    One of you posted a response involving Aslan guiding<BR>
a ball through an obstacle course- sounded pretty fun to<BR>
me.<BR>
    What specific obstacles would you put in the course?<BR>
How would the ball "pass" from one to another? What<BR>
sorts of rules would be incorporated as far as "contact"<BR>
and combat went?<BR>
    What sort of "playing area" would you guys suggest<BR>
for some of these games?<BR>
    I'm getting some thoughts of Aslan playing ball on in<BR>
some sort of amphitheatre and off on a roof somewhere,<BR>
we've got a sniper about to pop an important political<BR>
leader just as the game breaks for <what reasons for<BR>
intermission?>.<BR>
    Also, while combat sports seem to fit with many of<BR>
the races- would they tend to be actually lethal? Consider<BR>
the thought that on Earth martial artists long fought blood<BR>
battles much to the detriment of the arts due to great<BR>
masters being killed and the like.<BR>
    Would the various races of the 3I still have lethal<BR>
combat in their sports at the expense of worthy warriors<BR>
that could fight elsewhere, or would things like paint wars<BR>
and gloves in boxing matches seem more likely to you?<BR>
<BR>
Food for thought.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:32:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
SPLORT!!!.... good thing I turned my head or I would have needed a new<BR>
keyboard.<BR>
Enjoy the brew.<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Derrick Jones <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:58 PM<BR>
Subject: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
unsubscribemrhamiltonsincrediblytediousifnottosaycompletelyincomprehensibled<BR>
uetothelackofpunctuation<BR>
><BR>
grammarlogicalorproperlythoughtoutargumentspersonalcompletelyuninformedyetto<BR>
tallyvociferousandopinio<BR>
><BR>
natedpersonalrantlisttobetoattllyhonestimgoingtothepubforacoupleofsherbetsbe<BR>
causeicantbearsedreading<BR>
> hispostsanymore<BR>
><BR>
> seeyouothersontheothersideoftenpintsofbestbitter<BR>
><BR>
> Derrick Jones<BR>
> St Helens<BR>
> Lancashire UK<BR>
> http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:56:07 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are"-or humor and the TML [sic]<BR>
<BR>
Ahh, Britain and America - two nations divided by a common language<BR>
(ok, it's not original, but it is true).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:31:49 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Well Met,<BR>
<BR>
> Well, there's the problem when you come into a thread half way, I guess.<BR>
> You tend to see what's being currently discussed rather than what the<BR>
> original intent was.<BR>
<BR>
    All of us have undoubtedly made that mistake- so I forgive you ;-)<BR>
    I hope I didn't come across as demeaning or something with my post<BR>
on the importance. In re-reading it after posting, it appeared a bit on the<BR>
harsh side- my apologies if it sounded such.<BR>
<BR>
> My favorite system is probably MegaTraveller then, because the rules<BR>
system<BR>
> is more complex and flexible than the orignal without getting excessive.<BR>
I<BR>
> like DGP's style too, and consider their material in general the best<BR>
> Traveller stuff out there.<BR>
<BR>
    How does DGP differ from MT or CT rules?<BR>
<BR>
> That having been said, GURPS Traveller is a close second, and is the<BR>
system<BR>
> I plan to use in the future.  The products are being produced by people<BR>
who<BR>
> obviously care about Traveller, and it includes material I haven't got in<BR>
> other editions and probably don't have much chance of getting, like the<BR>
> K'Kree and Zhodani alien modules.  Yes the rules have little relationship<BR>
to<BR>
> prior Traveller editions, but for the most part I could care less as long<BR>
as<BR>
> it works (which it does).<BR>
<BR>
    This makes sense. Does the background generally jive with MT or does<BR>
it go a different direction entirely? If it throws out the old material,<BR>
what is the<BR>
"gist" of GT's background?<BR>
<BR>
> Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
> for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
> leather jacket), and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior<BR>
Traveller<BR>
> source material except in the Domain of Deneb, as well as changing several<BR>
> of the physical laws of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
    This does not bode well.<BR>
<BR>
> Marc Miller's Traveller was disappointing in the extreme.  Overexpensive<BR>
and<BR>
> full of errors.<BR>
<BR>
    Is this the version that we hear a lot about multiple page errata sheets<BR>
from?<BR>
<BR>
> Classic Traveller has a distinct charm to it, but the system's over 20<BR>
years<BR>
> old, and it shows.<BR>
<BR>
    Yeah, when I had MT it seemed that CT was really "deprived" in a lot of<BR>
ways and that was a decade ago. I did like CT and used a lot of the material<BR>
in my MT campaigns though.<BR>
    It also helped me fill in some of the unexplained things that were in<BR>
MT-<BR>
especially as far as Starship Generation went.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the input.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:31:35 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>Since everything in a dig site is Deadly Serious, in the past most of<BR>
>the small objects were identified as ritual items, shaman's totems, etc. <BR>
><BR>
>Of course not. <BR>
><BR>
>Many of the items were _toys_ used by small children.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder what a TL25 toy built for a human child would be like.<BR>
<BR>
A friendly "teddy bear" that is, as far as anyone without a TL25 bioscanner<BR>
can tell, alive?<BR>
<BR>
An emotionally-reactive holofield, so the child can "see" how he's<BR>
feeling? (Kind of like a parent saying, "Look at how frowny a face<BR>
you can make!" to try and kid a pouty child out of a bad mood.)<BR>
<BR>
The Acme Young Scientist's Home Terraforming Kit?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
"You find a box full of TL16 sex toys." - from SJ Games' online<BR>
version of Warehouse 23<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:45:08 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
How about: the K'kree sport of Rr!koogh G'naak, known to humans as "Whack<BR>
the G'naak".<BR>
The sport is intended primarily for juvenille K'kree, to help in developing<BR>
a proper attitude towards predators (and some preliminary military<BR>
training).  There is no marked playing field (K'kree are not comfortable<BR>
with the concept of "Out of bounds").  A short pole is set up, and a large<BR>
melon placed atop it.  The two teams square off at several hundred<BR>
K'kree-lengths from each other, each holding one of the traditional<BR>
pole-arms (if the teams are old enough; younger K'kree would use some kind<BR>
of club - it could also be played bare-hoofed, although that would require<BR>
less skill).  A referee standing by the pole raises his weapon in the air<BR>
and lowers it.  When the signal is given, the first member of each team runs<BR>
forward at full speed, attempting to be the first to remove the melon from<BR>
the pole without injuring the other team member.  A single point is scored<BR>
for knocking the melon off - two points if the melon is destroyed (cut or<BR>
smashed).  Points are subtracted from a team's score if one team injures the<BR>
other (the exact amount depending on the severity of the injury and the<BR>
referee's mood).  A major benefit of the sport is that it's easy to get a<BR>
pick-up game going - you just need a few melons, a pole, and something to<BR>
hit it with.  K'kree, of course, would never advocate injuring another<BR>
K'kree, hence the negative points for hitting the other team.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]<BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 2:23 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Great responses guys. I really liked Glenn's initial<BR>
response in relating games of the hunt to Vargr.<BR>
    What types of sports do you think would be developed<BR>
for the various races? why? How about some actual<BR>
"rules" on those ends?<BR>
*snip*  <BR>
    Also, while combat sports seem to fit with many of<BR>
the races- would they tend to be actually lethal? Consider<BR>
the thought that on Earth martial artists long fought blood<BR>
battles much to the detriment of the arts due to great<BR>
masters being killed and the like.<BR>
    Would the various races of the 3I still have lethal<BR>
combat in their sports at the expense of worthy warriors<BR>
that could fight elsewhere, or would things like paint wars<BR>
and gloves in boxing matches seem more likely to you?<BR>
<BR>
Food for thought.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:42:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
> Imagine trying to reconstruct North American culture with the following<BR>
items:<BR>
> "Aoxomoxoa" The Grateful Dead, on 8-track.<BR>
> The July, 1987 Playboy.<BR>
> Am empty Coke can.<BR>
> The distributor cap from a 1989 Chevy Corsica<BR>
> That's the challenge faced by Ancient researchers.<BR>
> Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
Wow Doug!<BR>
<BR>
    You illustrated that point very will, however...<BR>
<BR>
    I am amazed that you really made everything so nice and tight<BR>
dealing with everything being produced in the 80's. I would have<BR>
thought the challenge to be much greater.<BR>
    Since the Ancients seemed to span a HUGE span of time, we<BR>
would have to account for the fact that much of the findings could<BR>
be from older or more recent findings as well.<BR>
    I mean imagine when we find an Ancients' museum or a place<BR>
that was settled and rebuilt multiple times. Areas that they played<BR>
with, reformed, then played with again several different times.<BR>
    It is inconceivable (to me) that Ancients researchers could even<BR>
begin to put different objects of varying TL's together into any real<BR>
cohesive fashion to reconstruct anything even remotely similar to<BR>
Ancient society at any given time.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:53:33 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Digest Group Publications essentially wrote the MT rules, and did a lot of<BR>
top-class support material (The Traveller's Digest, MegaTraveller Journal,<BR>
and the Aliens books, among others) for it before they went away.  The main<BR>
improvements that MT made over CT are the task system and more flexible<BR>
combat rules.  <BR>
<BR>
The background of GT is the same as MT and CT up to the year 1116, when they<BR>
diverge.  MT goes into Imperium-wide civil war (which eventually evolves<BR>
into the shattered world of T:NE), while GT essentially keeps the Imperium<BR>
stable.<BR>
<BR>
Both MegaTraveller and T4 had quite a bit of errata, but T4 had more, and<BR>
was missing more important things.  Later printings of MT had most of those<BR>
errors corrected in the text.  T4, of course, doesn't have any later<BR>
printings.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]<BR>
> My favorite system is probably MegaTraveller then, because the rules<BR>
system<BR>
> is more complex and flexible than the orignal without getting excessive.<BR>
I<BR>
> like DGP's style too, and consider their material in general the best<BR>
> Traveller stuff out there.<BR>
<BR>
    How does DGP differ from MT or CT rules?<BR>
<BR>
> That having been said, GURPS Traveller is a close second, and is the<BR>
system<BR>
> I plan to use in the future.  *snip* Yes the rules have little<BR>
relationship<BR>
to<BR>
> prior Traveller editions, but for the most part I could care less as long<BR>
as<BR>
> it works (which it does).<BR>
<BR>
    This makes sense. Does the background generally jive with MT or does<BR>
it go a different direction entirely? If it throws out the old material,<BR>
what is the<BR>
"gist" of GT's background?<BR>
<BR>
> Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
> for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
> leather jacket), and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior<BR>
Traveller<BR>
> source material except in the Domain of Deneb, as well as changing several<BR>
> of the physical laws of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
    This does not bode well.<BR>
<BR>
> Marc Miller's Traveller was disappointing in the extreme.  Overexpensive<BR>
and<BR>
> full of errors.<BR>
<BR>
    Is this the version that we hear a lot about multiple page errata sheets<BR>
from?<BR>
<BR>
> Classic Traveller has a distinct charm to it, but the system's over 20<BR>
years<BR>
> old, and it shows.<BR>
<BR>
    Yeah, when I had MT it seemed that CT was really "deprived" in a lot of<BR>
ways and that was a decade ago. I did like CT and used a lot of the material<BR>
in my MT campaigns though.<BR>
    It also helped me fill in some of the unexplained things that were in<BR>
MT-<BR>
especially as far as Starship Generation went.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the input.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:02:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> How about: the K'kree sport of Rr!koogh G'naak, known to humans as "Whack<BR>
> the G'naak".<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
Coolers Jason, this will prove to be useful at least IMTU :-)<BR>
Of course, when a melon isn't available, whose head would they use?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2101<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2102</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2102<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 307 Ale<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
RE: Ancients<BR>
Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re Subject not worth talking about, even after a few bevvies<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re: ACQ<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
Re: More on Gift Subs<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 16:09:35 -0600<BR>
From: "Shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 307 Ale<BR>
<BR>
where do you think Scouts Brew comes from!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:08:56 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 12:24, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >As I come upstairs, it reads my physical characteristics, am I <BR>
> >moving quickly? Slowly? Am I sweaty?<BR>
> >Based on these criteria, the house sees what kind of music i <BR>
> >might want, and determines if now is a good time to tell me <BR>
> >about my phone messages. <BR>
> <BR>
> Bills paid and pizza ordered?  If the house is really reading<BR>
> what I'm feeling like when I get home from work, it's going to<BR>
> say,<BR>
> <BR>
> "The sauna is ready now, sir, and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon<BR>
> have been summoned.  A cold Red Tail Ale is on the dining table,<BR>
> and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon will have Finnish sausages,<BR>
> pickles, and rye toast waiting for you when you leave the sauna.<BR>
>  Bedroom temperature will stabilize at 85F."<BR>
<BR>
At last! Conclusive prrof that lawyers are underworked! If they did <BR>
real work they wouldn't have the energy to be interested in such <BR>
decadence.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:08:57 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 11:13, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:38 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hardly. After all,it would boil down to some humanoids<BR>
> >and  Droyne.<BR>
> <BR>
> And Vargr.<BR>
> <BR>
> >And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it<BR>
> >be that the connection was made after all,with<BR>
> >thousands of unprovable theories?<BR>
> >(well,the answer is of course "canon")<BR>
> <BR>
> The connection was made in Adv. 12 when the PCs meet Yaskodray.<BR>
> <BR>
> >It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what<BR>
> >results  police scientist get by reconstructing events.<BR>
> <BR>
> John we are talking about a period of time over a hundred times longer<BR>
> than all of human recorded history. <BR>
> <BR>
> To make this point, (and no disrespect to the Christians on the list)<BR>
> there is serious academic debate if the Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. We<BR>
> still have the languages spoken at the time, many sources, but we still<BR>
> can't nail down (NPI) his life.<BR>
> <BR>
> Now, take it out to 300,000 years, you have no remains, most site have<BR>
> been utterly destroyed. The few items we do have are complete enigmas. <BR>
> Some of them seem to do nothing. Others do something, but in no way<BR>
> explainable by physics.<BR>
> <BR>
> Imagine trying to reconstruct North American culture with the following<BR>
> items:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Aoxomoxoa" The Grateful Dead, on 8-track.<BR>
> The July, 1987 Playboy.<BR>
> Am empty Coke can.<BR>
> The distributor cap from a 1989 Chevy Corsica<BR>
> <BR>
> That's the challenge faced by Ancient researchers.<BR>
<BR>
Or the attempts to reconstruct early H. sapiens' culture, etc. And <BR>
that's only about 30,000 years old and we have some of their cave <BR>
paintings to go by, and some artifacts. Everyone assumes they were <BR>
painting themselves hunting, but how do we know they weren't painting <BR>
neanderthals hunting, and that they did things completely differently? <BR>
It doesn't seem likely, but what we do think is mostly guess-work.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:08:56 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 8:17, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I knew that this argument would come up.For a<BR>
> gearhead,TNE is probably sinful:it lacks the rules for<BR>
> spending endless time constructing starships.From a<BR>
> roleplayers point of view,it contains everything;the<BR>
> pregenerated ships are more than enough.<BR>
<BR>
What a pile of crap. In the basic TNE rules there is no real G-tank, <BR>
just a crappy fire support vehicle, and there's no way of making your <BR>
own. When it comes to ships we have:<BR>
<BR>
A TL15 100 DT Scout.<BR>
A TL12 200 DT Far Trader.<BR>
A TL10 200 DT Free Trader.<BR>
A TL15 200 DT Yacht.<BR>
A TL14 400 DT Close Escort.<BR>
A TL15 400 DT Lab Ship.<BR>
A TL15 400 DT Patrol Cruiser<BR>
A TL12 400 DT SDB.<BR>
A TL12 400 DT Subsidised Merchant.<BR>
A TL15 600 DT Survey Ship.<BR>
A TL12 600 DT Liner.<BR>
A TL15 800 DT Mrecenary Cruiser.<BR>
Four small craft, all of TL12 construction.<BR>
<BR>
This is a nice introductory selection, but it's hardly adequate on its <BR>
own for the setting protrayed in the TNE book. Where are the coalition <BR>
built military ships? Where are the old relic Solomani ships? There's <BR>
nothing remotely resembling an AFV from below TL11. How can you play <BR>
the portrayed setting (especially over the longer term) without some of <BR>
this, or the means to make them yourself?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:08:56 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 10:23, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The problem lies more with rather dull people who on<BR>
> the other hand think that they are very clever but are<BR>
> unable to understand anything that isn't served on a<BR>
> tablet to them.<BR>
<BR>
Here we are prestented with the reason for the bad punctuation - <BR>
"served on a tablet..." this suggests to me someone who is used to <BR>
using a wax tablet for writing - a Greek or Roman schoolboy. If he be <BR>
Greek the lack of or improper spacing and poor grammar become <BR>
understandable, as they didn't use punctuation.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:10:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The main error in this debate is simply that millions<BR>
> of scientists on thousands of planets couldn't come up<BR>
> with a theory with so much clues.And for a science<BR>
> situation there is an abundance of clues.<BR>
<BR>
You've got something like 200 systems, all with different types of<BR>
technology. In addition, to further muddle the scenario, you've got a few<BR>
sentient races which have been scattered across known space for no apparent<BR>
reason, and apparently not of their own volition. You've got the ancients<BR>
themselves who may or may not have wiped themselves out. You've got bizarre<BR>
alien races (such as the one presented in the CT adventure "Shadows") which<BR>
have left no trace but have left behind impressive architecture.<BR>
<BR>
Further, you've got another problem. Those 200 or so ancient sites are<BR>
spread across known space. Known space is made up of a complex web of<BR>
political and cultural relationships which may or may not be conducive to<BR>
open research.<BR>
<BR>
If Naasirka finds an Ancient base on an uninhabited moon do you think that<BR>
they will allow students from Regina U. to access it before they do whatever<BR>
they want to do with it? Then you've got the fact that some ancient sites<BR>
don't like visitors, or they do weird things when poked or prodded.<BR>
<BR>
Now that those factors have all been identified, at least in a cursory<BR>
fashion, let me add the most important one:<BR>
<BR>
A broad group of scholars from *all over* the Imperium will be doing the<BR>
work. Get two scholars with the same specialization in a room and they will<BR>
disagree. Get tens of thousands of them, with differing specializations,<BR>
ideologies, religious backgrounds all with different agendas and I'd be<BR>
surprised if 3 of them could agree on anything beyond the following:<BR>
<BR>
"There are remnants on of a culture, or cultures, which existed 300,000<BR>
years ago, more or less. The remnants of this culture have been found in<BR>
asteroid belts, on tiny moons and on really big planets with atmospheres and<BR>
hydrospheres which vary widely. This culture, or group of cultures, may even<BR>
have established bases within the atmospheres of gas giants, but nobody has<BR>
the time or funding to find out for sure. This culture, or cultures may have<BR>
seeded known space, or possibly the galaxy, with a number of races,<BR>
including humaniti, Vargr and Droyne."<BR>
<BR>
> The main argument against it is simply canon.And canon<BR>
> is simply a plot device,not something 100% logicaly(or<BR>
> even 25%)<BR>
<BR>
I suppose we have different definitions of logic.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:12:53 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> Digest Group Publications essentially wrote the MT rules, and did a lot of<BR>
> top-class support material (The Traveller's Digest, MegaTraveller Journal,<BR>
> and the Aliens books, among others) for it before they went away.  The<BR>
main<BR>
> improvements that MT made over CT are the task system and more flexible<BR>
> combat rules.<BR>
 > The background of GT is the same as MT and CT up to the year 1116, when<BR>
they<BR>
> diverge.  MT goes into Imperium-wide civil war (which eventually evolves<BR>
> into the shattered world of T:NE), while GT essentially keeps the Imperium<BR>
> stable.<BR>
> Both MegaTraveller and T4 had quite a bit of errata, but T4 had more, and<BR>
> was missing more important things.  Later printings of MT had most of<BR>
those<BR>
> errors corrected in the text.  T4, of course, doesn't have any later<BR>
> printings.<BR>
<BR>
    Something else that I have been wondering about. Combat in MT was<BR>
IIRC rather abstract, or symbolic. For example one pulse laser had a UCP<BR>
(Is that the right abbrev? :-) of 1, while it took 3 to get a UCP of 2.<BR>
    Defense was based on the UCP vs. the UCP of the weapon- however<BR>
it did not work out on a "linear" scale. Is this true of all Traveller<BR>
versions, or<BR>
was it peculiar to MT?<BR>
<BR>
    In case that did not come across right, this is another way of saying<BR>
what<BR>
I am trying to put across...<BR>
Let's say that we were doing damages and a pulse laser did d6 damage.<BR>
In most games 2 pulse lasers would do d6 each, or 2d6 total. However, it<BR>
appeared that in MT a single laser did d6 (UCP-1) and so did two of them.<BR>
However, 3 pulse lasers would do 2d6 (UCP-2).<BR>
<BR>
    I really hope that one of those two examples made some sort of sense.<BR>
Going from memory and trying to explain this is really more difficult than<BR>
I had imagined at first.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:16:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
From: D. Smart <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Douglas E. Berry posted:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Imagine trying to reconstruct North American culture with the<BR>
> following items:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Aoxomoxoa" The Grateful Dead, on 8-track.<BR>
> > The July, 1987 Playboy.<BR>
> > Am empty Coke can.<BR>
> > The distributor cap from a 1989 Chevy Corsica<BR>
> ><BR>
> > That's the challenge faced by Ancient researchers.<BR>
><BR>
> Especially when the second item is constantly being studied by the<BR>
> lead researcher.<BR>
><BR>
> <weg> <duck> <run><BR>
<BR>
If the language hasn't been decoded, he can't fall back on the excuse, "I<BR>
only read it for the articles", either. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:17:47 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
At 15:24 -0500 16/3/00, "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>I would expect that over 99.9999% of all known Ancient artefacts are sitting<BR>
>in museums or research labs, with labels saying 'Ritual Ancient Artefact<BR>
>(inoperative)' or 'Fragment of unidentified Ancient Artefact"<BR>
<BR>
AM5 Last of the Ancients:Droyne p44<BR>
<BR>
'Artifacts...<BR>
<BR>
The individual pieces of the puzzle [Dom: the secret that the <BR>
Ancients are Droyne] are commonly called artifacts, manufactured <BR>
items which were used by the Ancients in some aspect of their <BR>
civilisation. They come in all types and sizes, but the vast majority <BR>
are grabage; some are broken devices which tantalizingly promise <BR>
higher technology. A very few artifacts are working devices which can <BR>
be used and sometimes understood.<BR>
<BR>
The garbage artifacts are the ones most people find: rubble strewn <BR>
around Ancient sites destroyed in the Final War. But even the rubble <BR>
is fascinating, Shimmering pieces of broken brick, ...<BR>
<BR>
Broken devices are even rarer by a factor of a thousand. Excavations <BR>
of Ancient sites occasionally stumble onto relatively complete <BR>
devices which give considerable insight into the technology behind <BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
Far more rare than broken devices are those which are still <BR>
functioning . Such finds are extremely infrequent, Often the <BR>
challenge to the excavators and the researchers is not to determine <BR>
how the device works, but rather what it does.'<BR>
<BR>
(c)1977-2000 FarFuture Enterprise. All rights reserved. Quotation of <BR>
this material is purely to support a debate, and not intended as a <BR>
challenge to FFE's rights.<BR>
<BR>
So this supports your argument Matt.<BR>
<BR>
Hans, I just skimmed AM5 and can't see the 300 year quote - if you <BR>
find it can you let me know? I know the Fulacin Octagon was built <BR>
between 338 and 378...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:11:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 2:09 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> Actually, it's true that 'GURPS Traveller' is not a complete edition of<BR>
>traveller.  To be a complete edition of traveller, rules would have to<BR>
>> be part of the GT product, and they aren't -- the basic rules are in a<BR>
>> product (GURPS Basic) which is not a part of the GT line.  If GURPS Lite<BR>
>> had been included in GT you could call it a complete edition of<BR>
traveller,<BR>
>>  however.<BR>
><BR>
>    How difficult would it be to use GT's supplements with other versions<BR>
>of Traveller? Which version is it the MOST compatible with?<BR>
><BR>
>Later.<BR>
><BR>
>Jesse.<BR>
>vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
><BR>
IMHO It's compatible with all of them. Because it's only Information and<BR>
libary data. With most gurps supplements it doesn't matter what system you<BR>
put with them it's just information on the setting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:36:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>As I come upstairs, it reads my physical characteristics, am I<BR>
>>moving quickly? Slowly? Am I sweaty?<BR>
>>Based on these criteria, the house sees what kind of music i<BR>
>>might want, and determines if now is a good time to tell me<BR>
>>about my phone messages.<BR>
><BR>
>Bills paid and pizza ordered?  If the house is really reading<BR>
>what I'm feeling like when I get home from work, it's going to<BR>
>say,<BR>
><BR>
>"The sauna is ready now, sir, and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon<BR>
>have been summoned.  A cold Red Tail Ale is on the dining table,<BR>
>and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon will have Finnish sausages,<BR>
>pickles, and rye toast waiting for you when you leave the sauna.<BR>
> Bedroom temperature will stabilize at 85F."<BR>
><BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
><BR>
Glenn<BR>
<BR>
I understand the need for the ale and 2 women and the sauna. But what in the<BR>
HELL is the sausages pickles and rye toast for. Maybe it's another thing a<BR>
American will never understand.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:38:33 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Here's (basically) the way combat worked in MT:<BR>
<BR>
Step one was to determine range to target and the difficulty to hit a target<BR>
at that range, based on your weapon.  Just find the range and cross-check<BR>
the chart.  The difficulty might be adjusted a bit by cover or other<BR>
conditions.<BR>
<BR>
Step two is to roll to hit, adding your appropriate skill.<BR>
<BR>
Step three is to compare armor penetration at that range.  If you have a<BR>
lower penetration, you have a "Low penetration" hit.  If you have it higher<BR>
you have a "High penetration" hit.<BR>
<BR>
Step four is actual damage.  If you got a low pen hit, you either did no<BR>
damage at all or 1 pt (if you rolled an exceptional success - 2 over your<BR>
target).  If you had a high pen hit, you did normal damage for the weapon,<BR>
double if you rolled an exceptional success.<BR>
<BR>
Step five is to assess damage.  The target has an unconsciousness and death<BR>
rating (or inoperative/destroyed for non-living targets).  You subtract the<BR>
damage from step four to determine if your target is still combat-effective.<BR>
<BR>
The "UCP vs. UCP" thing was starship combat, and it was just a port over of<BR>
the "High Guard" rules from Classic Traveller.  There you would compare<BR>
weapon and defensive ratings to determine if you hit and penetrated, then<BR>
roll on a damage table for the results.  It was a bit abstract.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]<BR>
*snip*<BR>
> Both MegaTraveller and T4 had quite a bit of errata, but T4 had more, and<BR>
> was missing more important things.  Later printings of MT had most of<BR>
those<BR>
> errors corrected in the text.  T4, of course, doesn't have any later<BR>
> printings.<BR>
<BR>
    Something else that I have been wondering about. Combat in MT was<BR>
IIRC rather abstract, or symbolic. For example one pulse laser had a UCP<BR>
(Is that the right abbrev? :-) of 1, while it took 3 to get a UCP of 2.<BR>
    Defense was based on the UCP vs. the UCP of the weapon- however<BR>
it did not work out on a "linear" scale. Is this true of all Traveller<BR>
versions, or<BR>
was it peculiar to MT?<BR>
<BR>
    In case that did not come across right, this is another way of saying<BR>
what<BR>
I am trying to put across...<BR>
Let's say that we were doing damages and a pulse laser did d6 damage.<BR>
In most games 2 pulse lasers would do d6 each, or 2d6 total. However, it<BR>
appeared that in MT a single laser did d6 (UCP-1) and so did two of them.<BR>
However, 3 pulse lasers would do 2d6 (UCP-2).<BR>
<BR>
    I really hope that one of those two examples made some sort of sense.<BR>
Going from memory and trying to explain this is really more difficult than<BR>
I had imagined at first.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:48:43 -0000<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re Subject not worth talking about, even after a few bevvies<BR>
<BR>
oksoimadeaslightboobooandputthewordpersonalinteretwicesimplybecauseiwasstonecoldsoberwhilsttypingito<BR>
utnowthativeconsumedmymandatoryeightpintsdidntmakeittoteniwantedfoodisntitfunnyhowyoucanspotthesethi<BR>
ngswhenyoureabitsquiffybutyoucantwhenyournotaintbrainswierd<BR>
<BR>
psigotmyfirstevernearkeyboardkillwahey<BR>
<BR>
OK I'll refrain from doing it any more.... Sorry if I bored anyone...<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:59:50 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:19:06   Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
>for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
>leather jacket), <BR>
<BR>
The rules actually stated that lasers ignored materials like Kevlar, leather, etc. It was really only rigid armour like combat, or the steel plates in body armour that could stop Lasers.<BR>
Which means that Vacc suit wearing characters were basically naked when a Laser duel started!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior Traveller<BR>
>source material except in the Domain of Deneb,<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure I understand this one, unless you mean that the advance in the timeline caused library data sources in CT and MT to be invalidated... which is not really true, because they then become 'historical' data.<BR>
<BR>
> as well as changing several<BR>
>of the physical laws of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
It did change the fuel requirements for jump drives and Maneuver drives, which had a drastic effect on the way ships operated. The free trader could now do three jump ones by eating into maneuver fuel. This invalidated the theory of jump mains. (Which I found a little annoying, but could handwave away by saying that Jump fuel was different to manuever fuel, (needed He3 rather than H2). <BR>
I could put up with the little change because TNE presented me with a scalable set of rules that could be used to cover all situations. <BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:06:36 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: ACQ<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:05:32 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/14/00 at 07:36 AM,  Andrew Batishko <abatish@user1.cyberhighway.net> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Ok, I'm just going to have to ask. What is ACQ, and where can I go to<BR>
> >find out more?<BR>
> <BR>
> I just want to know when it's going to be available for order from SJG? <g><BR>
<BR>
Soon, Grasshopper...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename, Dude!"<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:59:53 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, John Wood wrote:<BR>
> One idea might be to put together a big list of canon and non-canon info<BR>
> available on the worlds that people could refer to:<BR>
> <BR>
>  * Books (e.g., The Traveller Adventure, Twilight's Peak)<BR>
>  * Amber Zones (Crystals on Dinom)<BR>
>  * TNS entries<BR>
>  * HIWG docs<BR>
>  * RICE papers<BR>
>  * Other websites<BR>
>  * TML archives<BR>
> <BR>
> For instance, I have used the world notes Rob Dean posted years ago<BR>
> describing about two dozen worlds in Glisten and District 268.<BR>
<BR>
Good point.  I'm working on Ylaven/Lanth.  But the only information I have to<BR>
work with it BtC and the UWP from MT:Imperial Encyclopedia.<BR>
<BR>
Has Ylaven made an appearance in something else that I'm not aware of?  I'd<BR>
hate to contradict already published info.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:08:58 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
On 11 Mar 2000 19:56 (GMT +0100), volker@greimann.de wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re: Tokaji Azsu 6 petunias<BR>
><BR>
>At 19:22 11.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>>Loren K Wiseman wrote:<BR>
>> > Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library<BR>
>> > Data file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.<BR>
>><BR>
>>If you do, I will subscribe.<BR>
><BR>
>Having it online only is kind of useless. I would love to have such a tool<BR>
>directly on my computer so i could access it all the time, not just when <BR>
>im online. If the interface looks good, i could even use it in play.<BR>
<BR>
	I am aching for that exact thing!.  Depending on price, I would buy<BR>
several.  Since my house has two PCs and two laptops, it would be easy to<BR>
make it available to both referee and players at the same time.  You might<BR>
want to consider password protecting different levels of knowledge in the<BR>
CD as being referee only.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:04:53 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: Re: More on Gift Subs<BR>
<BR>
Dear Loren<BR>
<BR>
I would very much like a Flight II Los Angeles class sub.  I<BR>
assume I would also get a fully-fueled reactor with this deal?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(Back from Sweden - Now I need to actually finish writing some<BR>
stuff for JTAS.  Once the cold goes away)<BR>
<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:21:14 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
> Here's (basically) the way combat worked in MT:<BR>
<BR>
<snipped explanation><BR>
<BR>
    I remember that now. No problems, the part that I was actually having<BR>
problems with was below...<BR>
<BR>
> The "UCP vs. UCP" thing was starship combat, and it was just a port over<BR>
of<BR>
> the "High Guard" rules from Classic Traveller.  There you would compare<BR>
> weapon and defensive ratings to determine if you hit and penetrated, then<BR>
> roll on a damage table for the results.  It was a bit abstract.<BR>
<BR>
    I do not remember the exact tables, but one of the things that I do<BR>
remember is that the pulse-turret weapons looked something like this...<BR>
UWP-1: 1 laser<BR>
UWP-2: 3 lasers<BR>
UWP-3: 5 or 6 lasers.<BR>
<BR>
    Then when you compared the defense, it was a cross-chart using the<BR>
UWP vs. the defense and that came out with a third number... Anyway,<BR>
are all of the Traveller variants designed with this "peculiar" method or<BR>
was it only MT?<BR>
    Since you said that this was a port over from the HG rules in CT, I<BR>
presume that CT and MT used that same rules system, but what about<BR>
the other versions?<BR>
    This was about the only area that I REALLY had problems with for<BR>
MT when I was running it before. Maybe I was really missing something<BR>
in it all- just didn't seem right to me that you'd need so much more fire-<BR>
power to increase the UWP rating by 1 step.<BR>
<BR>
Thoughts and further explanations are most welcome :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:23:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
> >At 19:22 11.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> >>Loren K Wiseman wrote:<BR>
> >> > Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library<BR>
> >> > Data file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.<BR>
<BR>
> I am aching for that exact thing!.  Depending on price, I would buy<BR>
> several.  Since my house has two PCs and two laptops, it would be easy to<BR>
> make it available to both referee and players at the same time.  You might<BR>
> want to consider password protecting different levels of knowledge in the<BR>
> CD as being referee only.<BR>
> --Laning<BR>
<BR>
    Even better, allowing the referees to determine what is accessible<BR>
information to who with suggestions being given to us :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2102<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2103<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
RE: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Malt<BR>
Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
Re: Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Trading Spreadsheets - The elusive bug has been found.<BR>
Re: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Petty States<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2089<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:27:43 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
<BR>
>*Caladbolg:<BR>
> Cuchulainn's sword?<BR>
<BR>
See below.<BR>
<BR>
> *Excalibur:<BR>
> Magic sword belonging to Arthur. Brewer claims it is the Sword in<BR>
> the Stone (_Ex cal[ce] liber[are]_ = to liberate from the stone.)<BR>
> GURPS Camelot claims it is the sword given to Arthur by the Lady of<BR>
> the Lake and that The Sword in the Stone is named Galatine.<BR>
> Excalibur is presently in the care of The Phantom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
In addition to Caliburn and Excalibur, the sword is sometimes referred to as<BR>
Caliburnus.<BR>
<BR>
Geoffrey of Monmouth claimed Excalibur was forged in Avalon. Malory claimed<BR>
that Arthur received the sword from Vivian of the land of the fairy.<BR>
<BR>
Some claim that the name of the sword is a derivation of Caladbolg, a sword<BR>
which appeared (in "The Cattle Raid of Cuailgne", one of the more famous<BR>
epics in the Ulster cycle) in the hands of Fergus mac Roich, who was one of<BR>
the tutors of Cuchulain.<BR>
<BR>
All from the "Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and<BR>
Legend, from the entries on Excalibur, Fergus mac Roich and others.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:30:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
>>Loren K Wiseman wrote:<BR>
>>Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library<BR>
>>Data file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.<BR>
<BR>
>volker@greimann.de wrote:<BR>
>If you do, I will subscribe.<BR>
>Having it online only is kind of useless. I would love to have such a tool<BR>
>directly on my computer so i could access it all the time, not just when <BR>
>im online. If the interface looks good, i could even use it in play.<BR>
<BR>
From: Laning<BR>
You might<BR>
want to consider password protecting different levels of knowledge in the<BR>
CD as being referee only.<BR>
<BR>
Laning,<BR>
Excellent suggestion. Since we are "pie-in-the-sky" wishing, how about also<BR>
allowing the ref to restrict data by "date" as well...what I mean is that<BR>
the ref can "filter" out all entries available to the players after any date<BR>
specified by the ref.<BR>
<BR>
Abel<BR>
(p.'s. Of course this would be a six volume CD set where one image of a coyn<BR>
is printed on each CD;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:27:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:19:06   Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> >Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
> >for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
> >leather jacket),<BR>
<BR>
> The rules actually stated that lasers ignored materials like Kevlar,<BR>
leather, etc. It was really only rigid armour like combat, or the steel<BR>
plates in body armour that could stop Lasers.<BR>
> Which means that Vacc suit wearing characters were basically naked when a<BR>
Laser duel started!<BR>
<BR>
    This makes more sense.<BR>
<BR>
> >and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior Traveller<BR>
> >source material except in the Domain of Deneb,<BR>
<BR>
> I'm not sure I understand this one, unless you mean that the advance in<BR>
the timeline caused library data sources in CT and MT to be invalidated...<BR>
which is not really true, because they then become 'historical' data.<BR>
<BR>
So was T: NE established in a later time frame than CT/MT was?<BR>
<BR>
> > as well as changing several<BR>
> >of the physical laws of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
> It did change the fuel requirements for jump drives and Maneuver drives,<BR>
which had a drastic effect on the way ships operated. The free trader could<BR>
now do three jump ones by eating into maneuver fuel. This invalidated the<BR>
theory of jump mains. (Which I found a little annoying, but could handwave<BR>
away by saying that Jump fuel was different to manuever fuel, (needed He3<BR>
rather than H2).<BR>
<BR>
Hmm... I usually built my ships so that powerplant and jump drives<BR>
used the same type of fuel and allocated only one "fuel tank" that<BR>
both powerplant and jump drives used.<BR>
If you had enough fuel in it to jump- then you could jump.<BR>
<BR>
> I could put up with the little change because TNE presented me with a<BR>
scalable set of rules that could be used to cover all situations.<BR>
> Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
Okay, "scalable set of rules" is a bit vague- would you mind<BR>
clarifying this for me as compared with say MT?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:50:22 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Malt<BR>
<BR>
Nobody said I was limited to one. I have a bottle of Glen Moray here. It's<BR>
my friend.<BR>
<BR>
Nice bottle....<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:36:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
<BR>
>So does that make SolSec Pigs in Space?<BR>
<BR>
I lean more toward Stasi in Space, but with better teeth.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:38:56 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
<BR>
Oh man! I'd forgotten all those gorgeous Don Davis paintings of<BR>
L5...<sigh><BR>
<BR>
Chris Dixon wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> IMHO, an O'Neil colony would be very cool as part of the cover.<BR>
> <BR>
> Check out http://members.aol.com/oscarcombs/settle.htm for some very<BR>
> cool pictures/ideas.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:40:12 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
Laning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>         I am aching for that exact thing!.  Depending on price, I would buy<BR>
> several.  Since my house has two PCs and two laptops, it would be easy to<BR>
> make it available to both referee and players at the same time.  You might<BR>
> want to consider password protecting different levels of knowledge in the<BR>
> CD as being referee only.<BR>
<BR>
    I don't see any benefit to SJG in having it on CD; that only gets into<BR>
distribution and all the problems that entails.  There's also the question of<BR>
updates, both official and GM-generated.  My guess is that Loren's trying to<BR>
get something done at low cost, as a service to subscribers.  (I doubt JTAS is<BR>
exactly a cash cow right now.)  Online, with a cross-linked, HTML-formatted<BR>
download available, is one of the best options and anyone with a browser could<BR>
make use of it.<BR>
<BR>
    What would be nice is if we could talk one of our software gurus into<BR>
creating some kind of combined encyclopedia/TNS program, which could take all<BR>
the available Library Data and TNS updates, plus allowing the referee to add<BR>
more of each.  If it can handle the HTML, then the ref could even add his own<BR>
cross-references to boot.  Allow the ref to flag entries or partial entries as<BR>
ref-only.  Now, wouldn't *that* be a useful tool?<BR>
<BR>
    (Actually, there's a product out called GM's Notebook which could probably<BR>
be used in just about this way, but I'm not familiar enough with it to say for<BR>
certain.  I do know it can work with HTML-formatted files, though.)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:41:38 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Scout Harris [mailto:scout.harry@eudoramail.com]<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:19:06   Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
>for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
>leather jacket), <BR>
<BR>
>The rules actually stated that lasers ignored materials like Kevlar,<BR>
leather, etc. It >was really only rigid armour like combat, or the steel<BR>
plates in body armour that >could stop Lasers.<BR>
>Which means that Vacc suit wearing characters were basically naked when a<BR>
Laser duel >started!<BR>
<BR>
Well that's even stranger than I thought.  You'd think a Vacc suit, designed<BR>
to withstand high temperatures and radiation, would provide some protection.<BR>
I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as well<BR>
in TNE.  <BR>
<BR>
>and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior Traveller<BR>
>source material except in the Domain of Deneb,<BR>
<BR>
>I'm not sure I understand this one, unless you mean that the advance in the<BR>
timeline >caused library data sources in CT and MT to be invalidated...<BR>
which is not really >true, because they then become 'historical' data.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, that's basically what I meant.  You couldn't use background info<BR>
without making major changes, because there was zero chance that nothing had<BR>
happened in the last seventy years of war and collapse to change the info.<BR>
<BR>
> as well as changing several<BR>
>of the physical laws of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
>It did change the fuel requirements for jump drives and Maneuver drives,<BR>
which had a >drastic effect on the way ships operated. The free trader could<BR>
now do three jump ones >by eating into maneuver fuel. This invalidated the<BR>
theory of jump mains. (Which I >found a little annoying, but could handwave<BR>
away by saying that Jump fuel was >different to manuever fuel, (needed He3<BR>
rather than H2). <BR>
>I could put up with the little change because TNE presented me with a<BR>
scalable set of >rules that could be used to cover all situations. <BR>
<BR>
>Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
	The physical laws I refer to were the invalidation of reactionless<BR>
thrusters (HEPLaR instead), the way sensors worked (amount of surface area<BR>
required for antennas and synthetic aperture), and lasers in general<BR>
(gravitic focousing, chemcial lasers, homo-polar capacitors, etc).<BR>
These changes made the game more "hard sci-fi", but didn't jive with the<BR>
Traveller universe as already described, to a much greater extent than the<BR>
changes MT made (the biggest change of this sort that MT made from CT was in<BR>
the amount of fuel a fusion plant requires).  I'm no gearhead, but I enjoyed<BR>
creating ships in MT to match their CT predecessors, and it was far more<BR>
difficult to match the originals with T:NE rules.<BR>
	I'm sure the differences caused by the change over to T:NE have been<BR>
discussed at length on the list, so I won't go into it much further than<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:44:45 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Steven Bonneville wrote:<BR>
> Jesse wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Yesterday I accepted the offer from SJG to do the cover for "Rim of Fire".<BR>
> > Here's the info I need.  Since the cover is going to show Earth, and a<BR>
> > starport in orbit around it (as well as a LOT of in-system traffic), has<BR>
> > there ever been any published mention and / or illustrations of the main<BR>
> > Earth starport?<BR>
> <BR>
> Not to my knowlege either.  It's almost given that Lagrange, AECO, and<BR>
> Phoenix/Paulo all have High Ports, probably spaced in geostationary<BR>
> orbits roughly over their ground port, 120 degrees apart.  Lagrange is<BR>
> in northwest Australia, AECO in Libya, and Paulo in Arizona.  There may<BR>
> be something in TD #13 or #14, where they discuss the Marine Occupation<BR>
> Force; I vaguely recall they kept heavy equipment at the high port.<BR>
<BR>
I thought that orbitals over the downports made sense, initially, but<BR>
as I thought about it I realized:<BR>
<BR>
1) The down ports aren't on the equator, so there aren't geosynchronous<BR>
points directly over them in any case.<BR>
<BR>
2) Why try to make the orbital stations directly overhead anyway? It <BR>
isn't advantageous for ships going between orbit and surface, because <BR>
only at the geosynchronous altitude and at the surface will the ship's <BR>
orbital speed be "correct" - i.e. the ship is gonna move all over the <BR>
place relative to the surface on the way down (unless the ship has <BR>
sufficient maneuverability to maintain its surface-relative position<BR>
in a controlled descent, in which case it can get anywhere in geosynch<BR>
orbit anyway!). It isn't advantageous for communications, because any <BR>
point on the surface should be able to get line-of-sight to at least one <BR>
of three equidistant geosynch orbitals (and vice versa). <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:50:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>At last! Conclusive prrof that lawyers are underworked! If they<BR>
<BR>
>did  real work they wouldn't have the energy to be interested <BR>
>in such decadence.<BR>
<BR>
You should note the time of that post, too (12:24 p.m.) --<BR>
midday work time, although I didn't bill for it.  Yes, I am<BR>
striving hard to reach a state of being overpaid and<BR>
underworked, and sometimes I can sustain it for a little while. <BR>
Of course, with trial set for 8 May, things will be a little<BR>
hectic in April, and you guys may not hear much from me.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  How many hours a day will people work in the Far<BR>
Future?  I know that the extreme diversity of the Imperium<BR>
renders a definitive answer problematic, but it's an interesting<BR>
question.  Eight hour days are a recent phenomenon, and by no<BR>
means uniform.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:50:44 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, the USP ratings were based on both the number and type of weapons, so<BR>
one beam laser would give you factor 1, two factor 2, 3 factor 3, and it<BR>
would get more complicated beyond that, with less of an increase in<BR>
firepower for more weapons.  <BR>
I guess the basic idea behind it was that 5 beam lasers wasn't that much<BR>
more impressive than 3 beam lasers, and that the main point in having more<BR>
weapons was to get through tougher defenses rather than do more damage,<BR>
which the system simulated.<BR>
<BR>
The ship combat rules in MT were the CT High Guard rules, just reprinted and<BR>
tweaked a bit.  T:NE used three different systems - the one in the basic<BR>
book, the one in Brilliant Lances, and the one in Battle Rider.  I only have<BR>
the first one, so I couldn't comment on the others.  The one in the main<BR>
book is more concreate than the High Guard system - it involved individual<BR>
weapons hitting for x amount of damage.  I understand that the BL system was<BR>
a more complicated version of this and the BR system was more abstract so it<BR>
could deal with bigger ships better.<BR>
<BR>
I don't remember much about the T4 starship combat system.  I didn't ever<BR>
actually use it.<BR>
<BR>
GURPS Traveller is more along the lines of the T:NE system - roll to hit,<BR>
see if you got through defenses, score damage points.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]<BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 4:21 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Here's (basically) the way combat worked in MT:<BR>
<BR>
<snipped explanation><BR>
<BR>
    I remember that now. No problems, the part that I was actually having<BR>
problems with was below...<BR>
<BR>
> The "UCP vs. UCP" thing was starship combat, and it was just a port over<BR>
of<BR>
> the "High Guard" rules from Classic Traveller.  There you would compare<BR>
> weapon and defensive ratings to determine if you hit and penetrated, then<BR>
> roll on a damage table for the results.  It was a bit abstract.<BR>
<BR>
    I do not remember the exact tables, but one of the things that I do<BR>
remember is that the pulse-turret weapons looked something like this...<BR>
UWP-1: 1 laser<BR>
UWP-2: 3 lasers<BR>
UWP-3: 5 or 6 lasers.<BR>
<BR>
    Then when you compared the defense, it was a cross-chart using the<BR>
UWP vs. the defense and that came out with a third number... Anyway,<BR>
are all of the Traveller variants designed with this "peculiar" method or<BR>
was it only MT?<BR>
    Since you said that this was a port over from the HG rules in CT, I<BR>
presume that CT and MT used that same rules system, but what about<BR>
the other versions?<BR>
    This was about the only area that I REALLY had problems with for<BR>
MT when I was running it before. Maybe I was really missing something<BR>
in it all- just didn't seem right to me that you'd need so much more fire-<BR>
power to increase the UWP rating by 1 step.<BR>
<BR>
Thoughts and further explanations are most welcome :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:34:15 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Derrick Jones <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 16 March 2000 21:01<BR>
Subject: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>unsubscribemrhamiltonsincrediblytediousifnottosaycompletelyincomprehensible<BR>
duetothelackofpunctuation<BR>
>grammarlogicalorproperlythoughtoutargumentspersonalcompletelyuninformedyett<BR>
otallyvociferousandopinio<BR>
>natedpersonalrantlisttobetoattllyhonestimgoingtothepubforacoupleofsherbetsb<BR>
ecauseicantbearsedreading<BR>
>hispostsanymore<BR>
><BR>
>seeyouothersontheothersideoftenpintsofbestbitter<BR>
><BR>
>Derrick Jones<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sinkacoupleformederrickthoughthebestbitteristhissideofthepennines<BR>
<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:55:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
<BR>
>I understand the need for the ale and 2 women and the sauna. <BR>
>But what in the HELL is the sausages pickles and rye toast for.<BR>
<BR>
>Maybe it's another thing a American will never understand.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'm an American, but I am also half Finnish.  I think that<BR>
my Finnish American friends would understand immediately, but I<BR>
don't think it can be explained (or should be on a family<BR>
mailing list).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:02:52 -0000<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Trading Spreadsheets - The elusive bug has been found.<BR>
<BR>
The final bug which has been getting me down for ages has been fixed.<BR>
(Selling prices for all available worlds were not changing as they should do,<BR>
simply because of strange references to other things. Not immediately<BR>
obvious unless senses are heightened by the inclusion of a fair amount<BR>
of ethanolic beverages.)<BR>
<BR>
I've now updated them on my web site for use. Apologies for previous<BR>
mistakes. This one should work 100%<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:13:35 -0500<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
<BR>
Han's wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >*Caladbolg:<BR>
> > Cuchulainn's sword?<BR>
><BR>
> See below.<BR>
><BR>
> > *Excalibur:<BR>
> > Magic sword belonging to Arthur. Brewer claims it is the Sword in<BR>
> > the Stone (_Ex cal[ce] liber[are]_ = to liberate from the stone.)<BR>
> > GURPS Camelot claims it is the sword given to Arthur by the Lady of<BR>
> > the Lake and that The Sword in the Stone is named Galatine.<BR>
> > Excalibur is presently in the care of The Phantom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Chris replied:<BR>
> Some claim that the name of the sword is a derivation of Caladbolg, a<BR>
sword<BR>
> which appeared (in "The Cattle Raid of Cuailgne", one of the more famous<BR>
> epics in the Ulster cycle) in the hands of Fergus mac Roich, who was one<BR>
of<BR>
> the tutors of Cuchulain.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, Cuchuillan's weapon was named Gae Bolga (sp?) I think it was more of a<BR>
spear fashioned from the bones of a whale or other sea creature. Courtesy of<BR>
what I remember of my lost copy of The Tain Bo Cuailgne.<BR>
<BR>
Jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:31:52 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 16 March 2000 22:22<BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 15:24 -0500 16/3/00, "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>>I would expect that over 99.9999% of all known Ancient artefacts are<BR>
sitting<BR>
>>in museums or research labs, with labels saying 'Ritual Ancient Artefact<BR>
>>(inoperative)' or 'Fragment of unidentified Ancient Artefact"<BR>
><BR>
>AM5 Last of the Ancients:Droyne p44<BR>
><BR>
>'Artifacts...<BR>
><BR>
>The individual pieces of the puzzle [Dom: the secret that the<BR>
>Ancients are Droyne] are commonly called artifacts, manufactured<BR>
>items which were used by the Ancients in some aspect of their<BR>
>civilisation. They come in all types and sizes, but the vast majority<BR>
>are grabage; some are broken devices which tantalizingly promise<BR>
>higher technology. A very few artifacts are working devices which can<BR>
>be used and sometimes understood.<BR>
><BR>
>The garbage artifacts are the ones most people find: rubble strewn<BR>
>around Ancient sites destroyed in the Final War. But even the rubble<BR>
>is fascinating, Shimmering pieces of broken brick, ...<BR>
><BR>
>Broken devices are even rarer by a factor of a thousand. Excavations<BR>
>of Ancient sites occasionally stumble onto relatively complete<BR>
>devices which give considerable insight into the technology behind<BR>
>them.<BR>
><BR>
>Far more rare than broken devices are those which are still<BR>
>functioning . Such finds are extremely infrequent, Often the<BR>
>challenge to the excavators and the researchers is not to determine<BR>
>how the device works, but rather what it does.'<BR>
><BR>
>(c)1977-2000 FarFuture Enterprise. All rights reserved. Quotation of<BR>
>this material is purely to support a debate, and not intended as a<BR>
>challenge to FFE's rights.<BR>
><BR>
>So this supports your argument Matt.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yup, like I said, about one in a million finds *might* actually do<BR>
something. Though it'll probably the equivalent of a keyfob car alarm<BR>
remote...<BR>
<BR>
>Hans, I just skimmed AM5 and can't see the 300 year quote - if you<BR>
>find it can you let me know? I know the Fulacin Octagon was built<BR>
>between 338 and 378...<BR>
><BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 From AM5 p6<BR>
<BR>
"The Modern Period<BR>
<BR>
With the end of the Final War, the Ancients ceased to exist. Until recently<BR>
(the last 300 years), the fact that the Droyne were the Ancients was<BR>
unknown. Once the connection between the Droyne and the Ancients was made,<BR>
research into the individual Droyne races on many different worlds produced<BR>
a history of the Droyne since -300,000."<BR>
<BR>
It certainly isn't *common* knowledge at the time, and they had a variety of<BR>
theories as to what the relationship between the Ancients and modern Droyne<BR>
was, as illustrated on p14 of AM5, which covers the 4 most popular theories,<BR>
none of which is 100% true, as they didn't realise how few Ancients there<BR>
really were, and that the Droyne are only the 'cousins' of the Ancients<BR>
rather than the descendants.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I have this vision of hundreds of copies of AM5, Adv3, & Adv12 sitting<BR>
open next to computers, with TMLers feverishly flicking through them as each<BR>
new post arrives, all muttering "where is it? I know I saw it in here about<BR>
three years ago. Aha!...no, no, that's not the bit I want...Aha! Here it<BR>
is... the clinching argument!"<BR>
<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:43:17 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
>Of course, with trial set for 8 May, things will be a little<BR>
>hectic in April, and you guys may not hear much from me.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I do hope you aren't intending to win by taking over an ICBM silo and<BR>
threatening to start WWIII unless they concede the case, though I can see<BR>
how the planning for that would cause April to be hectic. <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:47:43 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Petty States<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:13:24 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"<BR>
<semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
<BR>
>> I'm still interested in developing a (or seeing someone else's)<BR>
>> variant post-Rebellion setting with a dozens of petty states in the<BR>
>> middle of wild areas.<BR>
<BR>
>Can't help you on that one, since in my Petty States universe the Imperium<BR>
>gets halted pretty early during its expansion, so the Imperium never gets to<BR>
>the point of rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
>Here is the rough skeleton of what I have so far:<BR>
<BR>
Chris, I absolutely must insist that this be written up in<BR>
further detail - history, cultures, et cetera.<BR>
<BR>
I must also insist that these have a home on the web.  I don't<BR>
necessarily insist that that home be Freelance Traveller, but I<BR>
would consider the space for it well allocated and available<BR>
immediately (even if I couldn't get it on-line that fast).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:47:46 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2089<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:58:47 -0500 (EST), you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:40:53 -0800<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
>> The Tolkien names were Narsil, Sting , Orcrist(?) and Anduril.<BR>
>> Bruce Johnson<BR>
<BR>
>"Orcrest"... The easiest way to remember this one is to break<BR>
>it down "Orc Rest". Also, just for reference, the actual name of<BR>
>Sting was Glamdring IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Nope.  Orcrist is correct, Glamdring was a similar sword, and<BR>
Sting was a dagger.  All three were of elven make; Sting was<BR>
named by Bilbo Baggins.  Orcrist translated to "Orc-slayer";<BR>
Glamdring was "Foe-hammer"; the orcs called them Biter and Beater<BR>
(in their own tongue) respectively.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:50:18 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com' <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 16 March 2000 23:42<BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>
>From: Scout Harris [mailto:scout.harry@eudoramail.com]<BR>
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:19:06   Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
>>for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
>>leather jacket),<BR>
><BR>
>>The rules actually stated that lasers ignored materials like Kevlar,<BR>
>leather, etc. It >was really only rigid armour like combat, or the steel<BR>
>plates in body armour that >could stop Lasers.<BR>
>>Which means that Vacc suit wearing characters were basically naked when a<BR>
>Laser duel >started!<BR>
><BR>
>Well that's even stranger than I thought.  You'd think a Vacc suit,<BR>
designed<BR>
>to withstand high temperatures and radiation, would provide some<BR>
protection.<BR>
>I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as well<BR>
>in TNE.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Maybe it just flicked past and took his ear off...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, in the last game I reffed of TNE, I wanted to get rid of a former<BR>
PC, whose player had pulled out permanently. I decided to have him die in a<BR>
heroic way, by spotting a red dot appear on the back of the new patrons head<BR>
as the were walking to their air/raft. He leapt forward pushing the patron<BR>
out of the way and took a single 'crunch gun' round to the head... he only<BR>
took about 3 times enough damage to kill him, and I described the red mist<BR>
where his head used to be in a very atmospheric way <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2103<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2104</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2104<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
[OT] Star Wars Online<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
LBB Query<BR>
Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
40mm to the back (was Re: 20mm to the head)<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
RE: 20mm to the head<BR>
RE: Galanglic character set - IN CASE YOU MISSED IT!!<BR>
Re: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
Re: Droyne<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
RE: Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
RE: Rim Cover<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:59:35 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips discussion of difficulties faced by researchers of the<BR>
Ancients>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > That's the challenge faced by Ancient researchers.<BR>
> <BR>
> Or the attempts to reconstruct early H. sapiens' culture, etc. And<BR>
> that's only about 30,000 years old and we have some of their cave<BR>
> paintings to go by, and some artifacts. Everyone assumes they were<BR>
> painting themselves hunting, but how do we know they weren't painting<BR>
> neanderthals hunting, and that they did things completely differently?<BR>
> It doesn't seem likely, but what we do think is mostly guess-work.<BR>
<BR>
If the material in my ARTS 101 class can be believed, the animals<BR>
depicted in Paleolithic cave paintings generally were _not_ the animals<BR>
that the painters hunted.  What this could mean, I leave as an exercise<BR>
for the student.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:04:58 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 15:36, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> >So does that make SolSec Pigs in Space?<BR>
> <BR>
> I lean more toward Stasi in Space, but with better teeth.  <BR>
<BR>
How about Stasi Pigs in Space? This gives them teeth and fine uniforms, <BR>
should they need them.<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:04:58 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 16:41, Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Scout Harris [mailto:scout.harry@eudoramail.com]<BR>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:19:06   Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Traveller The New Era had a rather awkward combat system (laser carbines,<BR>
> >for instance, had 0 penetration, so you were invlunerable if you wore a<BR>
> >leather jacket), <BR>
> <BR>
> >The rules actually stated that lasers ignored materials like Kevlar,<BR>
> leather, etc. It >was really only rigid armour like combat, or the steel<BR>
> plates in body armour that >could stop Lasers. >Which means that Vacc suit<BR>
> wearing characters were basically naked when a Laser duel >started!<BR>
> <BR>
> Well that's even stranger than I thought.  You'd think a Vacc suit,<BR>
> designed to withstand high temperatures and radiation, would provide some<BR>
> protection. I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the<BR>
> head as well in TNE.  <BR>
<BR>
A laser isn't high temperature or ionizing radiation, though. It had <BR>
interesting effects, like lasers becoming the weapon of choice for <BR>
shooting up TL8- locals who didn't have "real" armour, but you had to <BR>
have some old fashioned slug throwers (or PGMPs) for when the TED's <BR>
elite troopers turned up. As for the 20mm story, I haven't heard it, <BR>
but it's probably possible (especially if it was an AP round), but it <BR>
doesn't concern me much as stranger things have happened in RL.<BR>
 <BR>
> >and had the drawback that it destroyed all prior Traveller<BR>
> >source material except in the Domain of Deneb,<BR>
> <BR>
> >I'm not sure I understand this one, unless you mean that the advance in<BR>
> >the<BR>
> timeline >caused library data sources in CT and MT to be invalidated...<BR>
> which is not really >true, because they then become 'historical' data.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, that's basically what I meant.  You couldn't use background info<BR>
> without making major changes, because there was zero chance that nothing<BR>
> had happened in the last seventy years of war and collapse to change the<BR>
> info.<BR>
<BR>
So? One annoying thing about a fair bit of the MT material (until Hard <BR>
Times, etc) was that it tended to ignore the minor matter of this <BR>
humoungous civil war that was going on at the time, as if it had no <BR>
effect on such things as the tourist industry, etc. The Library data in <BR>
MT's Imperial Encyclopedia was CT era stuff, and thus already out of <BR>
date.<BR>
<BR>
Besides if you played in the Spinward Marches (The Regency) a fair bit <BR>
of the data wouldn't be completely out of date.<BR>
<BR>
>  The physical laws I refer to were the invalidation of reactionless<BR>
> thrusters (HEPLaR instead), the way sensors worked (amount of surface area<BR>
> required for antennas and synthetic aperture), and lasers in general<BR>
> (gravitic focousing, chemcial lasers, homo-polar capacitors, etc). These<BR>
> changes made the game more "hard sci-fi", but didn't jive with the<BR>
> Traveller universe as already described, to a much greater extent than the<BR>
> changes MT made (the biggest change of this sort that MT made from CT was<BR>
> in the amount of fuel a fusion plant requires).  I'm no gearhead, but I<BR>
> enjoyed creating ships in MT to match their CT predecessors, and it was<BR>
> far more difficult to match the originals with T:NE rules.<BR>
>  I'm sure the differences caused by the change over to T:NE have been<BR>
> discussed at length on the list, so I won't go into it much further than<BR>
> that.<BR>
<BR>
Let's see: HEPlaR invalidated recationless thrusters, which turned up <BR>
in HG 2nd printing, which had invalidated the reaction drives of the <BR>
LBBs and HG's first printing, so perhaps HG should also be ditched. <BR>
<BR>
Sensors: previous versions either didn't bother with sensors or had <BR>
some really unrealistic ideas.<BR>
<BR>
Lasers: Gravitic focusing merely explained how you could get the ranges <BR>
that previous editions had given lasers, that's all. CLC lasers just <BR>
gave an alternative power source. The old-style DEI lasers still <BR>
existed.<BR>
<BR>
Matching CT and MT ships: Well remember that CT of the LBBs is mostly <BR>
about TL12. Try creating a 100 ton scout or a Patrol Cruiser at TL12 <BR>
using MT sometime. That's why all the ships in the base MT rules are <BR>
TL15 - the construction rules don't work real well for small PC type <BR>
ships at lower TLs. While TNE had this problem a bit (look at the Mrec <BR>
Cruiser) it wasn't nearly so bad.<BR>
<BR>
Also MT had some really odd ideas (from HG and Striker) about how much <BR>
power it takes to run things like weapons. 250 MW for a laser turret? <BR>
Bearing in mind that each space combet turn in MT was 20 minutes either <BR>
those turrets would never miss (enormous RoF) or they'd blow anything <BR>
in space away with one hit.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:36:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Bloo" <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: [OT] Star Wars Online<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Me and my big mouth.  Right after I say on the list that I doubt<BR>
Star Wars online will happen anytime soon, a deal is announced.<BR>
Verant and Sony, who brought us Everquest <shudder>, today<BR>
at the Game Developers Conference that they have the license<BR>
to begin developing "Star Wars Online."  They're hoping to have it<BR>
available in 2001. =20<BR>
<BR>
Game quality will be pure speculation.  Hopefully, they have learned<BR>
some lessons on what not to do from Everquest, but based on the<BR>
revenue that it continues to generate (as opposed to profits) I=20<BR>
doubt it.<BR>
<BR>
An online universe with 10,000 Jedi and Darth wannabe munchkins.<BR>
Oh well, it might be worth it if I can kill Jar Jar Binks over and over.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>
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<BR>
<DIV>Me and my big mouth.&nbsp; Right after =<BR>
I say on the=20<BR>
list that I doubt</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Star Wars online will happen anytime =<BR>
soon, a deal=20<BR>
is announced.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Verant and Sony, who brought us =<BR>
Everquest=20<BR>
&lt;shudder&gt;, today</DIV><BR>
<DIV>at the Game Developers Conference that =<BR>
they have=20<BR>
the license</DIV><BR>
<DIV>to begin developing "Star Wars =<BR>
Online."&nbsp;=20<BR>
They're hoping to have it</DIV><BR>
<DIV>available in 2001.&nbsp; </DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Game quality will be pure =<BR>
speculation.&nbsp;=20<BR>
Hopefully, they have learned</DIV><BR>
<DIV>some lessons on what not to do from =<BR>
Everquest, but=20<BR>
based on the</DIV><BR>
<DIV>revenue that it continues to generate =<BR>
(as opposed=20<BR>
to profits) I </DIV><BR>
<DIV>doubt it.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>An online universe with 10,000 Jedi and =<BR>
Darth=20<BR>
wannabe munchkins.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Oh well, it might be worth it if I can =<BR>
kill Jar Jar=20<BR>
Binks over and over.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>bloo</DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:12:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
I had written:<BR>
>>Of course, with trial set for 8 May, things will be a little<BR>
>>hectic in April, and you guys may not hear much from me.<BR>
<BR>
You replied:<BR>
>I do hope you aren't intending to win by taking over an ICBM<BR>
>silo and threatening to start WWIII unless they concede the <BR>
>case, though I can see how the planning for that would cause <BR>
>April to be hectic.<BR>
<BR>
Have you been hacking our internal email?  No, seriously, we<BR>
wouldn't do that in this case.  We're suing a large, pubicly<BR>
held corporation, and they just wouldn't care.  So we have to<BR>
take depositions and subpoena witnesses and have experts examine<BR>
the evidence and all that ordinary lawyer stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller: Opening scene:  The Monday morning staff meeting.<BR>
<BR>
Managing Partner:  OK, Ve, what's happening in Tukera v.<BR>
Dilandiir? <BR>
<BR>
Ve Naghfuaz:  Tukera just produced some terabytes of data<BR>
pursuant to the court's order.  I have two paralegals setting it<BR>
up to review our computer analysis.  We should be ready to start<BR>
taking the depositions of management personnel within ten days.<BR>
<BR>
Managing Partner:  Bridget, report on Amagashi v. Beck?  <BR>
<BR>
Bridget von Scheinwerf:  The government of Beck's World has<BR>
responded to our subpoena by producing documents -- actual paper<BR>
documents!  Why did we even get into this case on a low-tech<BR>
world.  I've submitted our cash advance request to cover travel<BR>
for myself and a paralegal to go to Beck's World and look at the<BR>
documents.  I expect that we'll just bring them back in<BR>
electronic format.  <BR>
<BR>
Etc.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:21:38 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > From memory (since I'm at work  and  my  employer  frowns  on  me<BR>
> > having my entire Traveller collection in the office) ...<BR>
> <BR>
> I can't imagine why.<BR>
<BR>
I can imagine two possible reasons:<BR>
<BR>
1.  The boss is jealous of his extensive Traveller collection.<BR>
<BR>
2.  The boss play some other game, such as Alternity or Space Opera.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that's just one reason: jealousy.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:14:25 +1100<BR>
From: William & Melissa Kendell <billk@planet.net.au><BR>
Subject: LBB Query<BR>
<BR>
<delurk><BR>
<BR>
Hi all. I've been lurking on this list for a few years now, mainly because<BR>
I love the ideas that you all put out, and I don't have anything really<BR>
original to put back in.<BR>
<BR>
Now, however, I have a problem (Help me TML, you are my only hope - to<BR>
misquote somebody).<BR>
<BR>
I have just obtained an old copy of the LBBs, unfortunately the middle<BR>
pages of Book 2 are missing. A friend sent me a copy of the missing pages<BR>
from his set but they are from a different edition and therefore don't<BR>
quite gel.<BR>
<BR>
The last line of Page 18 in my copy is:<BR>
<BR>
'Model/1, with basic software package is installed. The hull is streamlined<BR>
for'<BR>
<BR>
and the first line of Page 23 is:<BR>
<BR>
'GAME TURN SEQUENCE'<BR>
<BR>
Is there anyone out there who could provide a copy of the missing pages<BR>
(electronic format preffered) for this edition?<BR>
<BR>
If so please email to billk@planet.net.au<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for your patience.<BR>
<BR>
<lurk><BR>
<BR>
Bill Kendell<BR>
Programming since 1974. Gaming since 1980. Husband/Stepfater since 1999.<BR>
Father of twins to be in August 2000.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:29:59 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-16 19:49:03 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< >I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as well<BR>
 >in TNE.<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
 Maybe it just flicked past and took his ear off... >><BR>
<BR>
There was an infantryman in WWII who was grazed by an 88 round and lived to <BR>
tell about it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:44:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: 40mm to the back (was Re: 20mm to the head)<BR>
<BR>
When I was at LOGEX at Ft. Pickett back in 1990, I saw a flak vest which had<BR>
been hit (in the back) by a 40mm AP round during the U.S. invasion of<BR>
Panama. It must have been a glancing blow, for the round didn't penetrate<BR>
the kevlar. It did tear a big chunk away, however. One about the size of<BR>
your hand. The wearer of the vest received some broken ribs and serious<BR>
bruises, but was otherwise OK.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:29 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 00-03-16 19:49:03 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
> << >I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as<BR>
well<BR>
>  >in TNE.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>  Maybe it just flicked past and took his ear off... >><BR>
><BR>
> There was an infantryman in WWII who was grazed by an 88 round and lived<BR>
to<BR>
> tell about it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:54:37 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 16 Mar 00, at 10:23, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The problem lies more with rather dull people who on<BR>
> > the other hand think that they are very clever but are<BR>
> > unable to understand anything that isn't served on a<BR>
> > tablet to them.<BR>
> <BR>
> Here we are prestented with the reason for the bad punctuation -<BR>
> "served on a tablet..." this suggests to me someone who is used to<BR>
> using a wax tablet for writing - a Greek or Roman schoolboy. If he be<BR>
> Greek the lack of or improper spacing and poor grammar become<BR>
> understandable, as they didn't use punctuation.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, the Rosetta Stone (a most famous tablet) did pop up in some thread<BR>
or another.<BR>
<BR>
A less charitable person than I might make a suggestion concerning<BR>
another meaning of the word "tablet", and mention a need for<BR>
medication....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:37:14 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
<<chuckle>>  I hoping you weren't an anti-Ditzie type when the Collection<BR>
arrived without a note ;)<BR>
<BR>
My good friend Tim has the Dragon CD, so I've got that covered, but I don't<BR>
have the TD#13.  Sounds like there's not a WHOLE lot there, but maybe some<BR>
interesting info for the Earth's texture map.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of J. Paul<BR>
> Sanders<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:58 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> At 10:51 AM 3/16/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Jesse,<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The only information I'm aware of are the locations of Terra's major<BR>
> >surface starports (Invasion: Earth map), and the possible existance of a<BR>
> >Beanstalk on Terra (White Dwarf articles, but people seemed to like the<BR>
> >idea).<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> Then again, DGP's "Travellers' Digest" #13 was devoted exclusively to the<BR>
> Terra<BR>
> System and Marc also write an article detailing Luna in "Dragon" #87 (from<BR>
> which TD13 draws in some instances) which, if I recall correctly,<BR>
> mentions one<BR>
> of the starports upon the Moon (Copernicus Downport?) as once<BR>
> having being a<BR>
> major transshipping point for the system. Not sure if either magazine<BR>
> articles(s) is/are exactly what you're looking for, but thought<BR>
> I'd mention<BR>
> them.<BR>
><BR>
> L8r,<BR>
> Paul<BR>
><BR>
> P.S. Jesse - thanks for the Ditzie cartoon on the back of your<BR>
> order-envelope<BR>
> (Yes, an original illo. folks!) :)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:51:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: 20mm to the head<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
<<I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as well<BR>
in TNE.>><BR>
   << Maybe it just flicked past and took his ear off... >><BR>
<BR>
<<There was an infantryman in WWII who was grazed by an 88 round and lived<BR>
to <BR>
tell about it.>><BR>
<BR>
I think that it was Keith Nolan Ryan who recounts that during the battle for<BR>
Hue, Vietnam, a marine survived a direct hit to the chest with an RPG. I<BR>
don't remember why the round failed to explode: maybe the round needed<BR>
something a bit more substantial than a marine in body armor to trigger; or<BR>
the piezeo-electric charge shorted on a metal screen or chain link fence<BR>
before striking the marine.<BR>
Abel<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:42:30 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Galanglic character set - IN CASE YOU MISSED IT!!<BR>
<BR>
I have the font up at my site now, since Uncle Bear doesn't have the fonts<BR>
up anymore last time I checked.<BR>
<BR>
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/resources/<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:19 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Galanglic character set<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> At 0:21 -0500 16/3/00, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> > > Any one out there know where I can get a windows font set for the<BR>
> > > galanglic character set (that stuff that's on all of Jesse's<BR>
> art)?  I went<BR>
> > > around the ring without finding any.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hey Jason, it's not Galanglic it's Bilanidin which was<BR>
> originally intended<BR>
> >to be a Vilani "phonetic alphabet". In the time since it was<BR>
> released it has<BR>
> >become the "de facto" Traveller funky script.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I'm not sure if I currently have a copy on my harddrive,<BR>
> although I suspect<BR>
> >that several list members have a copy. If you have no luck by<BR>
> Friday drop me<BR>
> >an email and I'll see if I can find you a copy on my computer.<BR>
><BR>
> IIRC it is at http://www.unclebear.com/ with a load of other sfrpg<BR>
> and film fonts.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
><BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
> can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:03:45 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> > *Excalibur:<BR>
> > Magic sword belonging to Arthur. Brewer claims it is the Sword in<BR>
> > the Stone (_Ex cal[ce] liber[are]_ = to liberate from the stone.)<BR>
> > GURPS Camelot claims it is the sword given to Arthur by the Lady of<BR>
> > the Lake and that The Sword in the Stone is named Galatine.<BR>
> > Excalibur is presently in the care of The Phantom ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> In addition to Caliburn and Excalibur, the sword is sometimes referred to as<BR>
> Caliburnus.<BR>
> <BR>
> Geoffrey of Monmouth claimed Excalibur was forged in Avalon. Malory claimed<BR>
> that Arthur received the sword from Vivian of the land of the fairy.<BR>
> <BR>
> Some claim that the name of the sword is a derivation of Caladbolg, a sword<BR>
> which appeared (in "The Cattle Raid of Cuailgne", one of the more famous<BR>
> epics in the Ulster cycle) in the hands of Fergus mac Roich, who was one of<BR>
> the tutors of Cuchulain.<BR>
> <BR>
> All from the "Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and<BR>
> Legend, from the entries on Excalibur, Fergus mac Roich and others.<BR>
<BR>
Either way, it's no basis for a system of government!  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:38:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Grandfather arguably had a big TL advantage over his <BR>
> Grandchildren. They may have been "only" TL 25-30 while<BR>
> he was TL 35. This means that his attacks probably usually<BR>
> worked and canon states that there is no evidence that Final<BR>
> War era weaponry ever missed its targets [On the other hand<BR>
> the anti Chirper/Droyne genetic weapon used in the Zhodani <BR>
> system was canonically miss delivered so possibly the above canon <BR>
> is wrong.]<BR>
<BR>
If *I* were any of the governments in an area with Ancient remains, I'd<BR>
make it a *point* to make people think two things. First, that all the<BR>
planet destroying weapons had flawlessly taken out their targets, and<BR>
second, that messing with Ancient artifacts was best left to<BR>
(government) professionals.<BR>
<BR>
Why? Because if some of those weapons *are* still floating around,<BR>
having been "interrupted" in their progress towards their targets, you<BR>
could lose a *lot* of worlds/people if some bozo accidentally<BR>
re-activates them!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:53:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> "You find a box full of TL16 sex toys." - from SJ Games' online<BR>
> version of Warehouse 23<BR>
<BR>
Somewhere I have a story from one of the Alt.sex.* groups that has<BR>
someone doing something like that. With interesting consequences...<BR>
<BR>
It's not even "dirty"...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:52:44 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
<BR>
Hey, thanks for the link!<BR>
<BR>
BTW, all ideas are goin' in a folder for me to mull over while I do the<BR>
roughs.  KEEP 'EM COMIN'!!!<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris Dixon<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:54 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Space Stations In Earth Orbit<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> My two cents:<BR>
><BR>
> In Trillion Credit Squadron it mentions that the Colony ships were built<BR>
> by Beltmetalfabrikant (s.p.) AG and The French O'Neil space colony.<BR>
> O'Neil colonies are usually at one of the La Grange points so you could<BR>
> see it from Earth or Lunar orbit depending on the angle you draw the<BR>
> picture at.<BR>
><BR>
> IMHO, an O'Neil colony would be very cool as part of the cover.<BR>
><BR>
> Check out http://members.aol.com/oscarcombs/settle.htm for some very<BR>
> cool pictures/ideas.<BR>
><BR>
> -Chris<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:52:41 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Rim Cover<BR>
<BR>
Anyone have an address newer than http://members.aol.com/swrdknght/sok.htm<BR>
for SOK?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Boris Cibic [mailto:kafka47@hotmail.com]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:11 PM<BR>
> To: jdegraff@pacbell.net<BR>
> Cc: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Rim Cover<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Jessie,<BR>
>    The only product to feature a Space Station around Terran orbit was a<BR>
> Traveller Chronicle...it also had a nice shot of Columbia.<BR>
> Judging from the<BR>
> configration, I always assumed it was the L5 colony.  What would be nice<BR>
> would be a take on the Voyager picture that showed Terra and Luna<BR>
> together.<BR>
> To download a copy it would be on the Sword of the Knight homepage under<BR>
> traveller chronicle...if they have gone kaput I am sure I could<BR>
> russle up a<BR>
> colour photocopy if someone else on the list cannot send you a scan.  A<BR>
> pity, I was hoping that you were going to do something with<BR>
> people in it for<BR>
> the Rim.  Keep up the EXCELLENT work!!!<BR>
> Regards,<BR>
> Boris Cibic<BR>
> kafka47@hotmail.com<BR>
> ______________________________________________________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2104<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2105</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2105<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani<BR>
re: ancients<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: [OT] Star Wars Online<BR>
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
T4 Ship Combat System (was: Re: Best rules system)<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Marines sure are tough<BR>
Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
Re: Droyne<BR>
Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
NZ Air Farce, A-10s, B-52s, gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
Re: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:20:26 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and Solomani<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Al Bester, SS Polezi, err... PsiCorps<BR>
<BR>
Or "Pole-Psi"....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:17:34 CET<BR>
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: re: ancients<BR>
<BR>
>>John Hamilton<BR>
>>Maybe a roman servus lived better than a roman<BR>
>>farmer,but compared to his boss......?<BR>
<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry<BR>
>And is the boss's house was the target of the near-c rock?<BR>
><BR>
>You can't seem to shake you early 21-century expectation about what >luxury <BR>
>consists of.  These are aliens. Superintelligent, immortal, >and in the end <BR>
>genocidal aliens. You can't expect to find a four >poster bed and shag <BR>
>carpeting in Yaskodray's bedroom.<BR>
<BR>
This reminds me of my favourite Red Dwarf quote:<BR>
"You're not thinking alien enough. That's what they are! Aliens!<BR>
They do alien things! Things that are really... alien"<BR>
- -- A.J Rimmer from Red Dwarf<BR>
<BR>
Patrik Holmstrm<BR>
As of now you are all recumbent water-fowl of the genus Scipidae<BR>
- - Terry Pratcett in "The dark side of the Sun"<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:27:51 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
Chauncey Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip header>><BR>
> <BR>
> >>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >>As I come upstairs, it reads my physical characteristics, am I<BR>
> >>moving quickly? Slowly? Am I sweaty?<BR>
> >>Based on these criteria, the house sees what kind of music i<BR>
> >>might want, and determines if now is a good time to tell me<BR>
> >>about my phone messages.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Bills paid and pizza ordered?  If the house is really reading<BR>
> >what I'm feeling like when I get home from work, it's going to<BR>
> >say,<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"The sauna is ready now, sir, and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon<BR>
> >have been summoned.  A cold Red Tail Ale is on the dining table,<BR>
> >and Miss Olga and Miss Prithapon will have Finnish sausages,<BR>
> >pickles, and rye toast waiting for you when you leave the sauna.<BR>
> > Bedroom temperature will stabilize at 85F."<BR>
> ><BR>
> >--Glenn<BR>
> ><BR>
> Glenn<BR>
> <BR>
> I understand the need for the ale and 2 women and the sauna. But what in the<BR>
> HELL is the sausages pickles and rye toast for. Maybe it's another thing a<BR>
> American will never understand.<BR>
<BR>
To fortify one's strength for a few more hours of exertion/diversion, of<BR>
course....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:20:21 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Star Wars Online<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 20:36, Bloo wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Me and my big mouth.  Right after I say on the list that I doubt<BR>
> Star Wars online will happen anytime soon, a deal is announced.<BR>
> Verant and Sony, who brought us Everquest <shudder>, today<BR>
> at the Game Developers Conference that they have the license<BR>
> to begin developing "Star Wars Online."  They're hoping to have it<BR>
> available in 2001.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Game quality will be pure speculation.  Hopefully, they have learned<BR>
> some lessons on what not to do from Everquest, but based on the<BR>
> revenue that it continues to generate (as opposed to profits) I <BR>
> doubt it.<BR>
> <BR>
> An online universe with 10,000 Jedi and Darth wannabe munchkins.<BR>
> Oh well, it might be worth it if I can kill Jar Jar Binks over and over.<BR>
<BR>
Just once will do, provided that the job is so well done that he never, <BR>
ever existed. At all.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:56:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump <BR>
>>drive on the surface of a planet?  I can't remember reading <BR>
>>anywhere what happens in this case.<BR>
><BR>
> Ah, we have another frequently-discussed topic for the recently<BR>
> announced de-lurkers.  Gentlemen, short opposing position papers<BR>
> on this subject, please!<BR>
<BR>
It's quite simple. Check the MT and CT rules for misjump. You'll find<BR>
that jumping from within 10 diameters is an *automatic* misjump,<BR>
heavily biased towards a "ship destroyed" result.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:29:44 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:08:02 +0000, Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin<BR>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2000 12:13 PM<BR>
> > > To: traveller mailing aa list<BR>
> > > Subject: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > >By the way, what actually happens when you activate a jump<BR>
> > > >drive on the surface of a planet?  I can't remember reading<BR>
> > > >anywhere what happens in this case.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Ah, we have another frequently-discussed topic for the recently<BR>
> > > announced de-lurkers.  Gentlemen, short opposing position papers<BR>
> > > on this subject, please!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > Well apart from the great risk of a catastrophic misjump, starport<BR>
> > authorities tend to be a little upset when everything within a meter of the<BR>
> > jump field gets caught in the jump. Expect an APB for the apprehension of<BR>
> > the hsip and crew, if they survive the jump that is. A job for the bounty<BR>
> > hunters.<BR>
> > Antony<BR>
> <BR>
> And does anyone standing too close to the ship get cooked when the lanthanum<BR>
> grid discharges?  Or will they be very briefly exposed to jump space as the<BR>
> ship (tries to) tumble.<BR>
> <BR>
> Do we have molten edges where the field cut in.  Sliced struts etc.<BR>
> <BR>
> Must be spectacular to watch - from a distance of course.<BR>
<BR>
You'd think it would be an auto-fail if the computer doesn't compensate for<BR>
the amount of asphalt (and possibly even atmosphere) that they are going to<BR>
take with them :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename, Dude!"<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:31:38 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:43:17 -0000, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
> >Of course, with trial set for 8 May, things will be a little<BR>
> >hectic in April, and you guys may not hear much from me.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I do hope you aren't intending to win by taking over an ICBM silo and<BR>
> threatening to start WWIII unless they concede the case, though I can see<BR>
> how the planning for that would cause April to be hectic. <g><BR>
<BR>
Sounds an awful lot like the Shadowrun universe...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename, Dude!"<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:39:51 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: T4 Ship Combat System (was: Re: Best rules system)<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips description of MT/TNE ship combat systems>><BR>
> <BR>
> I don't remember much about the T4 starship combat system.  I didn't ever<BR>
> actually use it.<BR>
<BR>
I would be astonished (or perhaps appalled) if _anyone_ used the<BR>
soi-disant "space combat system" in T4, since it was so ludicrous (at<BR>
least to those of us accustomed to 50,000 dton cruisers as minor<BR>
combatants).  Armor being ablated per hit, no compatibility with other<BR>
T4 ship design systems, no spinal mounts.... :-P  Add to this the fact<BR>
that neither T4 Starships nor Imperial Squadrons included any useful<BR>
ship-to-ship combat rules, and you can see why there are so many<BR>
competing T4 ship combat rulesets (Mayday 4.1, RPSCS, Bruce Macintosh's<BR>
MCS [my personal choice], maybe some others about which I have no<BR>
information).<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:34:39 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Okay, "scalable set of rules" is a bit vague- would you mind<BR>
>clarifying this for me as compared with say MT?<BR>
<BR>
Oh cr*p... what do I mean?   :)<BR>
<BR>
I'll go by example: Which means I will talk a lot!!! <BR>
<BR>
If you used classic, the hit number was modified by the armour, there was no concept of penetration (or armour value).<BR>
So all you had was a roll to hit.<BR>
For Classic, there were no combat rules for vehicles unless you also owned Striker. <BR>
In striker, there was penetration. (Although not having read the rules, I do not know how the hit numbers were modified by the armour value, or even if they were...)<BR>
There were two sets of starship construction and combat rules, which were not consistent with each other.<BR>
The Book two starship combat did not have hull armour values, and so had no concept of penetration, High Guard did. <BR>
So in classic the method was roll to hit.<BR>
In High guard it was roll to hit, then see if you penetrate the armour.<BR>
There was really no way to determine what happened when a vehicle fired at a starship, or vice vera, or what happened when a personal weapon was used on a vehicle<BR>
<BR>
In MT, the combat for characters and vehicles used the same concept. Ie roll to hit, determine if you penetrated the armour value.<BR>
There was now a way for determining what happened to a lightly armoured vehicle if you shot it with your personal weapon<BR>
<BR>
The concept of roll to hit, then see if penetration occurs, was applied to starships as well. But MT starship combat used a modification of the CT "High Guard" system of combat system, which converted groups of weapons to UCP codes, as was the armour, and combat results were basically generated by comparing codes (bit more complicated than that.. but I don't want to describe in too much detail). <BR>
<BR>
This worked ok for starship combat, but made it problematic when characters started firing at starships with vehicle weapons, in personal combat (of for that matter, powerful personal weapons like fgmp's). There was no method for converting vehicle weapons to use the starships UCP codes, so when this situation arose, it became difficult to determine the damage that was done to a starship.   <BR>
<BR>
In TNE the same concept was appled to all levels of combat. <BR>
Roll to hit, penetrate the armour, apply the damage according to how much you have penetrated the armour by. <BR>
Starship combat now used the same types of numbers (or codes) that other weapons used, instead of the abstract codes from the last two versions, so that the when firing at starships with vehicle or personal weapons, it was now easy to determine what happens.<BR>
<BR>
So I guess what I mean by scalable is that from the personal level to vehicle to the starship level the combat rules provided definite answers for what happens in all situations, which was true for TNE not true in previous versions. <BR>
 <BR>
I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from. I guess when I use the term 'scalable', I actually mean 'consistent'.<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:33:43 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines sure are tough<BR>
<BR>
Garcia, Abel wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> - -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> <<I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as well<BR>
> in TNE.>><BR>
>    << Maybe it just flicked past and took his ear off... >><BR>
> <BR>
> <<There was an infantryman in WWII who was grazed by an 88 round and lived<BR>
> to <BR>
> tell about it.>><BR>
> <BR>
> I think that it was Keith Nolan Ryan who recounts that during the battle for<BR>
> Hue, Vietnam, a marine survived a direct hit to the chest with an RPG. I<BR>
> don't remember why the round failed to explode: maybe the round needed<BR>
> something a bit more substantial than a marine in body armor to trigger; or<BR>
> the piezeo-electric charge shorted on a metal screen or chain link fence<BR>
> before striking the marine.<BR>
<BR>
I just have to say that, while I have *no* romantic illusions about <BR>
the glory of war in general, or about the detonation odds of any <BR>
given RPG round hitting a soldier, or about the level of pain and <BR>
injury sustained from even a non-detonated RPG round...<BR>
<BR>
...DAMN it would be cool to be able to say you survived being <BR>
shot with a rocket launcher in real life.<BR>
<BR>
I mean, if you've gotta go to Viet Nam and get shot at, and all.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:32:10 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:07:38 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> "So they're sporting vessels, are they?  How many G's do they pull?" I<BR>
>>asked.<BR>
>><BR>
>> "Very precisely 16.4 Gs with full tanks and a full crew" he replied, "and<BR>
>> once they're running on fumes, a hair over 19 Gs.  Of course, what with the<BR>
>> G-comps and G-Tanks, the crew will feel _at most_ a subjective 14 G's.  But<BR>
>> still, we think that that's pretty impressive. They'll pull away from<BR>
>> anything out there like it was standing still: fighters, our own<BR>
>> Moonshines, some missiles, you name it".<BR>
><BR>
>I am speechless. You have gone *way* beyond the limits....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	There are limits?  You're kidding, right?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I like it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Many thanks...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>And I expect that a lot of folks will consider a J-class as part of a<BR>
>"bug-out" kit. If *anything* will get you out of a nasty situation<BR>
>alive, this ought to...<BR>
<BR>
	Hm.  Yeah.  You're quite right... I hadn't thought of that.  I was<BR>
just think "Big Hopped-Up Muscle Car In Space/Toy For the Bored Idle Rich";<BR>
the Spofulams already make a bug-out vessel...<BR>
<BR>
	But yeah; this ups the ante a bit in that respect.  Hm...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:31:52 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:53:28<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
><BR>
>At 08:30 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>However, those are exeptions. On Vland, everything is<BR>
>>incompatible to humans.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
><BR>
>Obviously, there were enough vitamin sources on Vland to offset the threat<BR>
>of things like scurvy and beri-beri. That, and the ritual cannibalism they<BR>
>had to practise.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Ritual?  I was under the impression that cannibalism was a<BR>
significant if not major part of the diet...<BR>
<BR>
	D*** I missed this list >:).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:35:15 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
news:<00316.163813.3F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
<BR>
> Why? Because if some of those weapons *are* still floating around,<BR>
> having been "interrupted" in their progress towards their targets, you<BR>
> could lose a *lot* of worlds/people if some bozo accidentally<BR>
> re-activates them!<BR>
<BR>
This reminds me of an incident involving a particularly boziform individual.<BR>
When policing the range on which we had fired the M60 and M2, one of my<BR>
battalion's people found an unexploded 40mm grenade, like the kind you fire<BR>
from the M203. Being significantly more boziform than the average guy on the<BR>
street, he picked up the round and took it home with him. Now, if you were a<BR>
person with a dud 40mm  grenade, what would you do with it? That's right,<BR>
you would shoot at it with a BB gun in your garage! BOOM! Fragments in the<BR>
legs.<BR>
<BR>
Most of the people you meet in the military are basically intelligent,<BR>
hard-working, etc, but its those few outliers which give you all of the good<BR>
stories.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:49:58 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> > How about: the K'kree sport of Rr!koogh G'naak, known to humans as "Whack<BR>
> > the G'naak".<BR>
> <BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> Coolers Jason, this will prove to be useful at least IMTU :-)<BR>
> Of course, when a melon isn't available, whose head would they use?<BR>
<BR>
While Jason's base rules suit R!koogh G'naak as a youthful pastime, I<BR>
can see the game expanding its base, with professional R!koogh G'naak<BR>
teams throughout K'kree space.  (After all, one way to encourage youths<BR>
to play is to provide them with adult role-model players.)<BR>
<BR>
True R!koogh G'naak aficionados (and professionals) would use a "melon"<BR>
spheroid made of specially-treated plant sap [read: vulcanized rubber],<BR>
filled with a foamed plant sap matrix.  That way, only the truly skilled<BR>
players can actually score the bonus points for destroying the "melon."<BR>
<BR>
For additional sport, the pole on which the "melon" is placed can have<BR>
fairly powerful electromagnets, which will tend to attract (and thus<BR>
deflect) the players' weapons away from a solid strike on the "melon." <BR>
The power feed to these electromagnets can even be set to vary, based on<BR>
the "handicap" of the approaching player.  (This form of handicapping is<BR>
most common in amateur recreational leagues.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:52:01 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> >Since everything in a dig site is Deadly Serious, in the past most of<BR>
> >the small objects were identified as ritual items, shaman's totems, etc.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Of course not.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Many of the items were _toys_ used by small children.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wonder what a TL25 toy built for a human child would be like.<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
I suspect that Roderick Darroch Elliott and Ian Whitchurch, with their<BR>
extensive knowledge of Famile Spofulam, could best answer this<BR>
question.  Kenji Schwarz, with his Sayat contacts, might also have some<BR>
insight.<BR>
<BR>
Either way, _I_ ain't asking.  <shudder><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:47:16 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > canon states that there is no evidence that Final<BR>
> > War era weaponry ever missed its targets [On the other hand<BR>
> > the anti Chirper/Droyne genetic weapon used in the Zhodani <BR>
> > system was canonically miss delivered so possibly the above canon <BR>
> > is wrong.]<BR>
> <BR>
> If *I* were any of the governments in an area with Ancient remains, I'd<BR>
> make it a *point* to make people think two things.  First, that all the<BR>
> planet destroying weapons had flawlessly taken out their targets, <BR>
<BR>
True but the reference is for the referee not the player.<BR>
<BR>
> and second, that messing with Ancient artifacts was best left to<BR>
> (government) professionals.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why? Because if some of those weapons *are* still floating around,<BR>
> having been "interrupted" in their progress towards their targets, you<BR>
> could lose a *lot* of worlds/people if some bozo accidentally<BR>
> re-activates them!<BR>
<BR>
For example the scene at the start of the 2nd Traveller Computer<BR>
game where an Ancient site on Rhylanor suddenly starts spewing<BR>
out massive quantities of grey goo. The players have to find a<BR>
way to turn off the Ancient artifat before the whole planet<BR>
becomes grey goo.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:53:21 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 18:35, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
> news:<00316.163813.3F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
> <BR>
> > Why? Because if some of those weapons *are* still floating around,<BR>
> > having been "interrupted" in their progress towards their targets, you<BR>
> > could lose a *lot* of worlds/people if some bozo accidentally<BR>
> > re-activates them!<BR>
> <BR>
> This reminds me of an incident involving a particularly boziform<BR>
> individual. When policing the range on which we had fired the M60 and M2,<BR>
> one of my battalion's people found an unexploded 40mm grenade, like the<BR>
> kind you fire from the M203. Being significantly more boziform than the<BR>
> average guy on the street, he picked up the round and took it home with<BR>
> him. Now, if you were a person with a dud 40mm  grenade, what would you do<BR>
> with it? That's right, you would shoot at it with a BB gun in your garage!<BR>
> BOOM! Fragments in the legs.<BR>
> <BR>
> Most of the people you meet in the military are basically intelligent,<BR>
> hard-working, etc, but its those few outliers which give you all of the<BR>
> good stories.<BR>
<BR>
The MPs at Waiouru here in NZ have an impressive collection of things <BR>
that have been wrecked by idiots with blinds (the unexploded rounds <BR>
found in target zones, etc). They're the poor sods who get to go ad <BR>
pick up the pieces, work out what happened, etc.<BR>
<BR>
One of the better known ones (because it's told to all new recruits as <BR>
a cautionary tale) is about some young chap who found two dud 40mm <BR>
grenades (as above) and was banging them together in the back of a <BR>
Landrover to show off to the female signaller who was with him. I've <BR>
seen photos of the 'rover, and it was absolutely totalled. IIRC he died <BR>
and the sig was blinded. I forget what happened to the driver, but they <BR>
were at least badly injured.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:24:45 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
"James W. Lindsay" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:08:02 +0000, Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips gruesome discussion of on-planet Jump drive activation>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > And does anyone standing too close to the ship get cooked when the lanthanum<BR>
> > grid discharges?  Or will they be very briefly exposed to jump space as the<BR>
> > ship (tries to) tumble.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Do we have molten edges where the field cut in.  Sliced struts etc.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Must be spectacular to watch - from a distance of course.<BR>
> <BR>
> You'd think it would be an auto-fail if the computer doesn't compensate for<BR>
> the amount of asphalt (and possibly even atmosphere) that they are going to<BR>
> take with them :)<BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
As a safety measure, AuricTech Shipyards provides clear warnings against<BR>
engaging Jump drive while on a planetary surface on the README.AWP files<BR>
that accompany each AuricTech ship.  ("What?  Your late spouse's<BR>
computers couldn't read AuricTech Word Processing [AWP] files in<BR>
6.023E23 format?  It's not _our_ fault that the decedent chose not to<BR>
budget the extra MCr 23.17 OEM licensing fee for the AuricTech<BR>
BridgeSuite 6.023E23 upgrade, as offered on page 2317 of the purchase<BR>
contract.  See, here are the initials declining the upgrade from<BR>
BridgeSuite 6.02299E23.  After all, we can't be expected to provide<BR>
perpetual support for obsolete applications software.")<BR>
<BR>
</tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:22:48 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: NZ Air Farce, A-10s, B-52s, gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
<BR>
On 11 Mar 2000 11:39 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re: New Zealand air force, Imperium attack craft, & Meritocracies<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
>> By the way, B-52s are still very useful, and they bear that<BR>
>> designation because they entered service in 1952.<BR>
>No they don't and no they didn't. <BR>
>B = Bomber<BR>
>52 = 52nd "model" considered.<BR>
>This is the rule for *all* military aircraft in the US. They "reset"<BR>
>the numbers back in the 70s or 80s after getting up to F-111 (maybe<BR>
>higher) and some fairly high number for the bombers.<BR>
>The B-52 didn't enter service until the *late* 50s.<BR>
<BR>
	I think we're going to have to disagree on this one.  I agree it didn't<BR>
enter any wide deployment until like 1956-58.  First prototypes were<BR>
actually around I think in late 1950.  If I can ever dig up any of my<BR>
military aircraft books, I'll doublecheck my memory of this.  Wondering if<BR>
some friend didn't borrow those books for an extended time.  Meantime,<BR>
let's just agree to disagree.  OBTRAV:  I think we've strayed off topic,<BR>
anyway.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>You can tell how unpopular "attack" (ie ground support) aircraft are<BR>
>with the Air force when you consider that regular fighters got into the<BR>
>low hundreds and attack craft (A-xx) only got up to A-10.<BR>
<BR>
	I pretty much love all the A-xx designated planes.  A-1, A-3, A-6, A-7 and<BR>
A-10?  Close air support isn't a widely appreciated thing, but it is<BR>
extremely important.  US Air Force has historically split the pure ground<BR>
attack stuff as the US Army's job.  That was the rationale for the Army<BR>
instead of AF flying all the choppers, anyway.  And we Marines of course.<BR>
There was something of a to do at the time about whether A-10s would go to<BR>
the Army or the Air Force.  The Army wanted them, but the AF didn't really<BR>
want to waste dollars on an unglamorous job like supporting infantry and<BR>
tanks.  Plus, they were jealous of the notion that high-performance<BR>
fixed-wing craft being piloted by non-AF pilots.  But the Army (wisely,<BR>
IMHO) really wanted to have A-10s, and ideally have them in close<BR>
coordination with the groundpounders.  Finally, the Army agreed to back<BR>
unrelated programs the AF wanted in exchange for AF support for the Army to<BR>
get A-10s.  OBTRAV:  Guess I have to work on some gravcraft designs for<BR>
close air support and post them?  Any objections if I use MegaTraveller<BR>
design rules?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>      Huh?  I have to disagree.  A-10s are designed primarily as tank<BR>
busters,<BR>
>> armored car busters, and bunker busters.<BR>
><BR>
>I expect that they could do quite a number on *ships* as well. Which<BR>
>*could* be a problem if anybody ever attacks NZ.<BR>
<BR>
	That would be *very* interesting.  <G>  Only major drawbacks I can think<BR>
of for the A-10 in that situation is no terrain to hide in and equipped<BR>
with the wrong kind of missiles for ship-killing.  OTOH, I feel sorry for<BR>
anyone on the ship if the A-10 gets within gun range.  And the missile<BR>
suite of an A-10 is far from useless against ships.  Definitely an<BR>
interesting possibility.  My first instinct is the A-10 would be deadly in<BR>
this role.  Further reflection is making me have doubts.  A lot of modern<BR>
warships have point defense capabilities that mean maybe I should feel<BR>
sorry for the A-10 if within gun range, and Hellfire missiles aren't<BR>
exactly Harpoons or Exocets.  There are probably too many variables to make<BR>
categorical predictions of victory for either side.  OBTRAV:  Guess we're<BR>
off topic again, unless someone can weave this back into Traveller for us.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:26:57 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: No subject worth talking about.<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:58:14 -0000, "Derrick Jones"<BR>
<dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>unsubscribemrhamiltonsincrediblytediousifnottosaycompletelyincomprehensibleduetothelackofpunctuation<BR>
>grammarlogicalorproperlythoughtoutargumentspersonalcompletelyuninformedyettotallyvociferousandopinio<BR>
>natedpersonalrantlisttobetoattllyhonestimgoingtothepubforacoupleofsherbetsbecauseicantbearsedreading<BR>
>hispostsanymore<BR>
><BR>
>seeyouothersontheothersideoftenpintsofbestbitter<BR>
<BR>
Ow! My head hurts!<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"'Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep<BR>
 your own. 'Compassion' is when a politician arranges the transfer."<BR>
                                     -Joseph Sobran<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2105<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2106<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
Re: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Gashikan emperors list<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Sword world names<BR>
Re: Galanglic character set<BR>
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
RE: Galanglic character set<BR>
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
Re: Galanglic character set<BR>
Re: The Face<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
Re: Guzzle<BR>
Re: Scotch 2<BR>
Re: AECO<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
Re: NZ Air Farce, A-10s, B-52s, gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2057<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2057<BR>
Re: Scotch 2<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:28:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>I think that it was Keith Nolan Ryan who recounts that during the battle<BR>
for<BR>
>Hue, Vietnam, a marine survived a direct hit to the chest with an RPG. I<BR>
>don't remember why the round failed to explode: maybe the round needed<BR>
>something a bit more substantial than a marine in body armor to trigger; or<BR>
>the piezeo-electric charge shorted on a metal screen or chain link fence<BR>
>before striking the marine.<BR>
>Abel<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
My dad is a retired marine E-8 who after Korean in 1950 and two tours in<BR>
Viet Nam got out after his 20 in 1968.  Some where between 65' and 68' I<BR>
remember him showing me an article showing a fellow who had an grenade from<BR>
an  M-79 lodged in his abdomen. Apparently it hadn't rotated a sufficient<BR>
enough number of revolutions to arm.  X-ray pictures told the tale.   They<BR>
sand bagged the OR and a surgeon and an EOD type took it out.<BR>
<BR>
Patient, doctor and EOD type all survived the experience.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:28:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: More info for Hans on Swords<BR>
<BR>
From: James Fleming <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> IIRC, Cuchuillan's weapon was named Gae Bolga (sp?) I think it was<BR>
> more of a spear fashioned from the bones of a whale or other sea<BR>
> creature. Courtesy of what I remember of my lost copy of The Tain<BR>
> Bo Cuailgne.<BR>
<BR>
Funk & Wagnalls says it was called Gae Bulg and the literal translation is<BR>
"notched spear". It was made from the bones of a sea-monster that had died<BR>
on the beach in a battle with another of its kind. The warrior woman Aiofe<BR>
of Alba gave it to Cuchulain. He wasn't too wise when it came to its use:<BR>
his good friend Ferdiad and his own son Connla were two of the victims of<BR>
the spear.<BR>
<BR>
Good to see that you're posting, on a regular basis, Jim!<BR>
<BR>
[Mr. Fleming is a good friend of mine and he's had to suffer under my<BR>
iron-fisted GMing style in the past. :) ]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:27:56 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
<BR>
Now you've bloody well done it!  You got Rod to go "Hmm..."!!!<BR>
<BR>
Think I'll go hunker down in a bomb shelter for awhile....<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of R.D. Elliott<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 6:32 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com;<BR>
> traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:07:38 PST<BR>
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> >Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam Yards J Class Match Racing Yacht<BR>
> ><BR>
> >In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> "So they're sporting vessels, are they?  How many G's do they pull?" I<BR>
> >>asked.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> "Very precisely 16.4 Gs with full tanks and a full crew" he <BR>
> replied, "and<BR>
> >> once they're running on fumes, a hair over 19 Gs.  Of course, <BR>
> what with the<BR>
> >> G-comps and G-Tanks, the crew will feel _at most_ a subjective <BR>
> 14 G's.  But<BR>
> >> still, we think that that's pretty impressive. They'll pull away from<BR>
> >> anything out there like it was standing still: fighters, our own<BR>
> >> Moonshines, some missiles, you name it".<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I am speechless. You have gone *way* beyond the limits....<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> 	There are limits?  You're kidding, right?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> >I like it.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> 	Many thanks...<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> >And I expect that a lot of folks will consider a J-class as part of a<BR>
> >"bug-out" kit. If *anything* will get you out of a nasty situation<BR>
> >alive, this ought to...<BR>
> <BR>
> 	Hm.  Yeah.  You're quite right... I hadn't thought of that.  I was<BR>
> just think "Big Hopped-Up Muscle Car In Space/Toy For the Bored <BR>
> Idle Rich";<BR>
> the Spofulams already make a bug-out vessel...<BR>
> <BR>
> 	But yeah; this ups the ante a bit in that respect.  Hm...<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:06:38 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:53:55 EST<BR>
> From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?<BR>
><BR>
> At TL 15 would vacc suits be able to withstand solar flare radiation<BR>
outside<BR>
> protective planetary belts? Just curious...I know that modern suits won't<BR>
and<BR>
> that US shuttle astronauts have to be careful....<BR>
> Thanks<BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest introduction.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:02:05 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Gashikan emperors list<BR>
<BR>
> From: Troy Bradley <gladiator1999@yahoo.com><BR>
> Subject: Gashikan emperors<BR>
<BR>
<great stuff snipped><BR>
<BR>
Bravo !<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:46:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
What you have pointed to in the UCP is true for star ship combat. It's due<BR>
to the fact that it can be traced back to the High Guard system for star<BR>
ship combat. there was no change in the damage that 2 did so it was more<BR>
effect to make 2 pulse laser 2 different batteries. Which is a side effect<BR>
of all High Guard ships  and MT ships. This system of thought also appears<BR>
in T4 if you look at the SSdS in the main book. In that system there is a<BR>
system for 1 3 5 and 10 there is  no 2.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:18 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
>    Something else that I have been wondering about. Combat in MT was<BR>
>IIRC rather abstract, or symbolic. For example one pulse laser had a UCP<BR>
>(Is that the right abbrev? :-) of 1, while it took 3 to get a UCP of 2.<BR>
>    Defense was based on the UCP vs. the UCP of the weapon- however<BR>
>it did not work out on a "linear" scale. Is this true of all Traveller<BR>
>versions, or<BR>
>was it peculiar to MT?<BR>
><BR>
>    In case that did not come across right, this is another way of saying<BR>
>what<BR>
>I am trying to put across...<BR>
>Let's say that we were doing damages and a pulse laser did d6 damage.<BR>
>In most games 2 pulse lasers would do d6 each, or 2d6 total. However, it<BR>
>appeared that in MT a single laser did d6 (UCP-1) and so did two of them.<BR>
>However, 3 pulse lasers would do 2d6 (UCP-2).<BR>
><BR>
>    I really hope that one of those two examples made some sort of sense.<BR>
>Going from memory and trying to explain this is really more difficult than<BR>
>I had imagined at first.<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks.<BR>
><BR>
>Jesse.<BR>
>vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:37:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
I'm wading in again.<BR>
First and foremost Canon is not the holy grail that it seems like from the<BR>
out side John. All you have to do is place 4 letters in front of any<BR>
statement and nullify it. IMTU- In my traveller universe. The ppl that are<BR>
on this list has available to them a background and wealth of traveller<BR>
stuff that many new gamers can't get their hands on. My humble collection of<BR>
traveller stuff and it is humble even though I believe it's atleast 2 feet<BR>
tall if all the books and everything is laid on it's side is dwarfed by the<BR>
bootie that's in some of the other ppl that regularly talk here. CANON is<BR>
the official party line and IMO only important when playing in a truly large<BR>
world size AKA a con.<BR>
<BR>
The Information on the ancients how ever is spread out over a great many<BR>
volumes. And never really consolidated in any one place. So if you want<BR>
information on them you must hunt down so much other stuff and the<BR>
information isn't really worth the price or the time to get it. I personally<BR>
would go with what ever the book says and make stuff up.<BR>
<BR>
IG's writers are some of the same ppl on this list. The problem with T4 is<BR>
that it is the 4th distillment of the information by ppl who know to ppl who<BR>
know. So it's written as if you know all this stuff and have access with not<BR>
real intent on telling the new player how to use it. Once again I point you<BR>
to my earlier statements of Proofreading and Blind Playtesting.<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 2:40 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 13:37 -0500 16/3/00, john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
>>Hardly.After all,it would boil down to some humanoids<BR>
>>and  Droyne.<BR>
>>And the main weak spot is :If that's true,how could it<BR>
>>be that the connection was made after all,with<BR>
>>thousands of unprovable theories?<BR>
>>(well,the answer is of course "canon")<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Using T4 as a basis for arguing about the Droyne/Ancients link is<BR>
>flawed as it makes the error of referring the the Ancients as Droyne<BR>
>in player briefs. This was not known in M0, nor disseminated until<BR>
>the 1100s, which then had a nice war to detract from it FFW/the<BR>
>Collapse). This is another example of IG's lack of knowledge of the<BR>
>Traveller background.<BR>
><BR>
>>It's simply a piece of criminology.Just think what<BR>
>>results  police scientist get by reconstructing events.<BR>
><BR>
>There is very little evidence before Twilight's Peak occurs in the<BR>
>pre-FFW period. They wiped each other out with mega-death weapons and<BR>
>precision weapons of destruction. The 3I only really took control of<BR>
>the SM in 700+. In the 600s we had the Civil War. M0 to M200 was a<BR>
>period devoted to expansion and trade. There were efforts to prove<BR>
>the Archon Hypothesis pre-600. What little survived for<BR>
>archaeologists was indistinguishable from magic in most cases, unless<BR>
>they were psionically capable. The Vilani were stagnant and didn't<BR>
>really absorb the high Droyne content worlds. The RoM collapsed and<BR>
>utterly devastated the knowledge base for a thousand years.<BR>
><BR>
>There is *no* *obvious* evidence that the Droyne are the Ancients.<BR>
>Humaniti *wanted* to prove that they were the Ancients. Humaniti<BR>
>looked in the wrong place, at minimal information.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:59:40 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Sword world names<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:17:04 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen<BR>
<rancke@diku.dk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>There's no reason to assume that. All the 'Tolkien worlds' were settled at<BR>
>about the same time, whan s dozen of the mythological names had already<BR>
>been used. My take is that Tolkien had had a revival around that time and<BR>
>that the worlds in question were named as a result of a fad. Worlds settled<BR>
>later went back to mythological, legendary, and historical names (IMTU I've<BR>
>also come up with a couple of names from Vilani campfire tales.).<BR>
><BR>
>>After several generations on Gram, the then bickering colonists cobbled<BR>
>>together what they could of the "heritage" of Earth that remained, and<BR>
>>then ventured back into space with a pretty warped idea of what Terran<BR>
>history was. <BR>
><BR>
>YMMV, but as far as I'm concerned, if the Grames was able to build jump<BR>
>ships a mere century after they settled on Gram, then they did not loose<BR>
>much knowledge in the process.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps by -420 Tolkien's works are treated as mythology in their own<BR>
right? The knowledge that it was fiction could have been lost over the<BR>
centuries. When it is rediscovered it could be misinterpreted. Perhaps<BR>
the first records recovered were archives of fan websites? Only later<BR>
the actual books are found sans forwards and introductions.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"'Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep<BR>
 your own. 'Compassion' is when a politician arranges the transfer."<BR>
                                     -Joseph Sobran<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:29:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galanglic character set<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I do have a font that is based on the Visitor alphabet (from the TV series<BR>
> 'V') that looks similar.<BR>
><BR>
> I can't remember where I got it so I will e-mail it to you in a separate<BR>
> document. It is contained in a 17kb ZIP file.<BR>
<BR>
> Anyone else interested can either request it from me or play with their<BR>
> favorite search engine...<BR>
<BR>
I'd like a copy.<BR>
<BR>
Anybody have a font for the alien scipt in "Alien Nation"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:10:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, I trust that you all realize that the only reason we at AuricTech<BR>
> designed the MONTANA-class battleship with a Streamlined Hypersonic<BR>
> hullform was to allow gas giant refueling, IAW FF&S2, page 16.<BR>
><BR>
> However, we are willing to pay a MCr 1 prize to the first captain of a<BR>
> MONTANA-class battleship to fly low-level hypersonic in the atmosphere<BR>
> of a TL-13 or higher, Pop 9 or higher world with operational ground<BR>
> defenses.<BR>
<BR>
Does it count if the world is on their side? Or does the flight have to<BR>
occur over enemy territory?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:19:42 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Galanglic character set<BR>
<BR>
Damn.  Know I've seen one, but I sure can't find it now.  >:(<BR>
<BR>
Sorry dude,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
> Erickson<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:29 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Galanglic character set<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > I do have a font that is based on the Visitor alphabet (from<BR>
> the TV series<BR>
> > 'V') that looks similar.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I can't remember where I got it so I will e-mail it to you in a separate<BR>
> > document. It is contained in a 17kb ZIP file.<BR>
><BR>
> > Anyone else interested can either request it from me or play with their<BR>
> > favorite search engine...<BR>
><BR>
> I'd like a copy.<BR>
><BR>
> Anybody have a font for the alien scipt in "Alien Nation"?<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:39:16 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > However, we are willing to pay a MCr 1 prize to the first captain of a<BR>
> > MONTANA-class battleship to fly low-level hypersonic in the atmosphere<BR>
> > of a TL-13 or higher, Pop 9 or higher world with operational ground<BR>
> > defenses.<BR>
> <BR>
> Does it count if the world is on their side? Or does the flight have to<BR>
> occur over enemy territory?<BR>
<BR>
Either way, as long as the defenses are firing for effect.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
**the following is limited distribution**<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the only reason our Marketing beings are making this offer is<BR>
that we _can't lose_.  One of three things will happen, if some<BR>
moro^h^h^h^h brave soul tries this stunt:<BR>
<BR>
1.  The ship survives intact.  Great PR for AuricTech, more orders pour<BR>
in.<BR>
<BR>
2.  The ship survives, but is badly damaged.  Still good PR, plus we<BR>
have a chance to bid on the repair/refit contract.<BR>
<BR>
3.  The ship becomes a luxury suite at the Auger Inn.  AuricTech points<BR>
out just how much enemy firepower it took to kill the ship, even though<BR>
the ship was not operating IAW Imperial Naval doctrine (only a fool<BR>
would fly a BB atmospheric over a hostile world with operating<BR>
defenses), and we have a good shot of getting the contract for building<BR>
a replacement.  Besides, the ships that are _built_ to operate in close<BR>
proximity of a defended world have a good shot at knocking out defensive<BR>
batteries that fire to bring down the MONTANA-class BB, as they expose<BR>
themselves by firing.  Makes later suppression of enemy defenses easier.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:49:33 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Galanglic character set<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Anybody have a font for the alien scipt in "Alien Nation"?<BR>
<BR>
    Try http://members.xoom.com/Giedi/<BR>
<BR>
    They have more sci-fi and fantasy fonts than you can shake a stick at.  I<BR>
was quite surprised when I found them this afternoon.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:53:25 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Face<BR>
<BR>
<< c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?) >><BR>
<BR>
Speaking of the face, does anybody know where I can find the photos that JPL <BR>
released showing Kermit the Frog in a lava flow? <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:53:23 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
 Leonard says:<BR>
<BR>
<< Old? You? Hah!<BR>
 <BR>
 I turned 45 last month... >><BR>
<BR>
Still got ya beat. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:53:24 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Guzzle<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-16 10:18:59 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< I prefer the Lavalamp^WLagavulin - you know, it comes with a toothpick<BR>
 so you can get the peat out of your teeth. >><BR>
<BR>
Not to mention those bog burials I keep reading about...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:53:26 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Scotch 2<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-16 13:13:17 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis<BR>
 that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO). <BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Did I say I limited myself to one?<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:53:27 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: AECO<BR>
<BR>
<< Loren, if you're reading this, would you please settle what AECO<BR>
 stands for?  (African European Cooperative Organization?)<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
I don't remember off the top of my head. Most of my Traveller stuff is still <BR>
in a rental locker 1500 miles away<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:54:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
> First and foremost Canon is not the holy grail that it seems like from the<BR>
> out side John. All you have to do is place 4 letters in front of any<BR>
> statement and nullify it. IMTU- In my traveller universe. The ppl that are<BR>
> on this list has available to them a background and wealth of traveller<BR>
> stuff that many new gamers can't get their hands on. My humble collection<BR>
of<BR>
> traveller stuff and it is humble even though I believe it's atleast 2 feet<BR>
> tall if all the books and everything is laid on it's side is dwarfed by<BR>
the<BR>
> bootie that's in some of the other ppl that regularly talk here. CANON is<BR>
> the official party line and IMO only important when playing in a truly<BR>
large<BR>
> world size AKA a con.<BR>
<BR>
Having the stuff doesn't make you more important in the TML community.  My<BR>
collection is in no way humble, yet nobody gives a hoot what I say :-p  Not<BR>
only that, I'm still a heretic with a TU that ignores 100% of the canon<BR>
setting and even postulates a different jump technology (horrors).  So don't<BR>
get the idea that this phenomena is something specific to the TML.  Some<BR>
folks will be snobs about anything, even if it is only imaginary ;-)<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
(I bet mine is bigger than yours! http://www.downport.com/ct/biglist.html )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:05:43 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-16 22:28:22 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< One of the better known ones (because it's told to all new recruits as <BR>
 a cautionary tale) is about some young chap who found two dud 40mm <BR>
 grenades (as above) and was banging them together in the back of a <BR>
 Landrover to show off to the female signaller who was with him. I've <BR>
 seen photos of the 'rover, and it was absolutely totalled. IIRC he died <BR>
 and the sig was blinded. I forget what happened to the driver, but they <BR>
 were at least badly injured. >><BR>
<BR>
My reaction would have been to ask my self a non-rhetorical question: "What <BR>
will hurt me more -- being 3 feet away from at least 1 detonating 40mm round <BR>
or diving out of a jeep?"<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:25:32 -0600<BR>
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@santech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: NZ Air Farce, A-10s, B-52s, gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
<BR>
At 10:22 PM 3/16/00 -0500, Laning wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>      Huh?  I have to disagree.  A-10s are designed primarily as tank<BR>
>busters,<BR>
> >> armored car busters, and bunker busters.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I expect that they could do quite a number on *ships* as well. Which<BR>
> >*could* be a problem if anybody ever attacks NZ.<BR>
><BR>
>         That would be *very* interesting.  <G>  Only major drawbacks I <BR>
> can think<BR>
>of for the A-10 in that situation is no terrain to hide in and equipped<BR>
>with the wrong kind of missiles for ship-killing.  OTOH, I feel sorry for<BR>
>anyone on the ship if the A-10 gets within gun range.  And the missile<BR>
>suite of an A-10 is far from useless against ships.  Definitely an<BR>
>interesting possibility.  My first instinct is the A-10 would be deadly in<BR>
>this role.  Further reflection is making me have doubts.  A lot of modern<BR>
>warships have point defense capabilities that mean maybe I should feel<BR>
>sorry for the A-10 if within gun range, and Hellfire missiles aren't<BR>
>exactly Harpoons or Exocets.  There are probably too many variables to make<BR>
>categorical predictions of victory for either side.  OBTRAV:  Guess we're<BR>
>off topic again, unless someone can weave this back into Traveller for us.<BR>
><BR>
>--Laning<BR>
<BR>
One of my favorite parts in Tom Clancy's "Hunt for Red October" has 4 <BR>
A-10's going out and "engaging" a Russian carrier group.  They fly in at <BR>
night 100 feet above the water (with a 90 aircraft about 100 miles back at <BR>
30,000 feet as a diversion).  They flew in and left a trail of flares <BR>
boxing in the island of the carrier.  This was to send a message that the <BR>
Ruskis were playing in our bathtub.<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Simpson<BR>
	nimrodd@fastlane.net<BR>
"Cannot say.<BR>
  Saying, I would know.<BR>
  Do not know.<BR>
  So cannot say."<BR>
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:29:08 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2057<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:36 (GMT -0600), wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re: THUDDD Help<BR>
>> P.S.  Sorry about the CAPS; it's an old military habit<BR>
>> of always using caps in the subject line.<BR>
><BR>
>Really?  What branch?  (In my experiences with the US Army and the<BR>
>Louisiana Army National Guard, the subject line of memoranda was not<BR>
>written in all caps.  I never had to type other kinds of message<BR>
>traffic.)<BR>
<BR>
	US Marine Corps 1980 to 1986, written reports, memoranda, were commonly<BR>
typed up with ALL CAP subject lines.  I can no longer remember if that was<BR>
the correct way to do things or not.  Some faint remnant of a memory is<BR>
tickling at a brain cell and saying, everybody did it, but that's because<BR>
they were wrong.  Just don't remember.  The manual that governed the<BR>
correctness of such things was the US Government Printing Office Style<BR>
Manual.  If anyone has one, we could check.<BR>
<BR>
	The characters return to their patron and submit a detailed written<BR>
briefing on their mission's results.  They inadvertently forget to use all<BR>
capital letters in the subject line of their report.<BR>
1.  By chance, this is the correct way to write a briefing, though rarely<BR>
followed.  The patron awards the players with an additional 1,000 Cr times 1D.<BR>
2.  The characters should have checked whether their patron is Vilani or<BR>
not.  Subsequent events to be determined by the referee.<BR>
3.  The patron is not fluent in Galanglic and hires the players to locate a<BR>
translator for him.<BR>
4.  For failing to submit a properly formatted report, the patron deducts<BR>
1,000 Cr times 1D from each player's pay for the mission.<BR>
5.  The players have committed a gross error in judgment to create any<BR>
written report of their mission.  The patron reluctantly concludes the only<BR>
remedy is to have all the players killed.<BR>
6.  The patron reads the report and discloses he is a member of the TML and<BR>
the players have now created a huge flame war.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:39:44 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2057<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Mar 2000 02:51 (GMT -0600), wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Another Filk (My First Traveller Filk!)<BR>
>Writing this filk seemed a good way to spend the evening:<BR>
>**begin transmission**<BR>
>"During the Fifth War"<BR>
>[to the tune of "After the Gold Rush", by Neil Young]<BR>
<BR>
	Good one!  Very nice.  :-><BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:51:01 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scotch 2<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 00-03-16 13:13:17 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis<BR>
>  that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO).<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Did I say I limited myself to one?<BR>
<BR>
The proper limit for SMS is "yes."<BR>
<BR>
Unless you're driving (or piloting a starship).  Then the proper<BR>
(approximate) answer is:<BR>
<BR>
{yes|yes<time-1} (where *time* is expressed in hours before operating<BR>
vehicle/starship, and *yes* is expressed in 1.5 ounce shots<BR>
(approximately 45 mL for metric TMLers)<BR>
<BR>
[Sorry; I've spent too much of this semester tutoring College<BR>
Algebra.... <sheepish grin, shrug>]<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2106<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2107</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2107<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Glad to be back in the saddle but a bit sadder<BR>
Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: Drives (LKWs thoughts)<BR>
Re: Petty States<BR>
Re: Best rules system (/Striker)<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Sword world names [long]<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Military types vs 7th graders  TML # 2083<BR>
Re: Weather Control<BR>
RE: Yaskodray<BR>
Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani<BR>
Re: 307 Ale<BR>
TNE Mailing List<BR>
Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
RE: Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....<BR>
Re: The Face<BR>
Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover<BR>
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:57:35 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
<BR>
>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
>Subject: NZ Air Farce, A-10s, B-52s, gravcraft in close air support role<BR>
...<BR>
>get A-10s.  OBTRAV:  Guess I have to work on some gravcraft designs for<BR>
>close air support and post them?  Any objections if I use MegaTraveller<BR>
>design rules?<BR>
<BR>
  What, Striker (I) is too good for you? :>  If you do use MT, at least<BR>
include armour volume and alleged hull surface area so that the vehicle<BR>
can be reverse-engineered into a superior design system :)<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:14:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but the orbiter portion of the Mars Pathfinder mission shot new<BR>
photos at higher resolution. The face really *was* just an artifact of<BR>
image processing. There's nothing there but some hils and outcrops that<BR>
were at the edge of resolution for the flights back in the 70s.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:26:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hydrogen was being acceleratied and "smashed" into elementary particles in a <BR>
> particle accelerator. Then the basic particles  produced were squeezed into <BR>
> a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The idea <BR>
> was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
<BR>
just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and Aluminum.<BR>
<BR>
> One thing they worked out real quick... when the Vilani asked them where <BR>
> they were from, they didn't tell them.<BR>
<BR>
I guess you (and they) never read Murray Leinster's *classic* First<BR>
Contact story. He points out a few "problems" with meeting aliens in<BR>
deep space, rather than on worlds belonging to either of you.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:30:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Glad to be back in the saddle but a bit sadder<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I for one enjoy Leonard's 'Incredible Journeys to the land of science'. It<BR>
> scares me how much I don't know - though I do admit that a lack of basic<BR>
> science knowledge does hamper this somewhat.<BR>
<BR>
There's a quite painless way to remedy that. Hit a good bookstore and<BR>
try to find some of the collections of science essays that Isaac Asimov<BR>
wrote. There are a couple dozen of the books, many are collections of<BR>
the monthly column he wrote for Fantasy & Science Fiction magazine from<BR>
the mid-50s until his death. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:34:53 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual Europe or US, <BR>
> and/or show it from the perspective of a Earth eclipse of the moon so <BR>
> you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
<BR>
That'd have to be an eclipse of the *Sun* by the earth. <BR>
<BR>
Also, unless Earth has gotten *remarkably* drier, the cloud cover will<BR>
mask most details.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:38:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I once toured a castle in Japan, and part of the tour was the nobleman's<BR>
> bedroom. Four thin papaer walls (out of derence to Kiri, I won't mangle the<BR>
> Japanese), a wooden pallet with a *thin* mattress, and a wooden block for a<BR>
> pillow.<BR>
><BR>
> I slept better in basic training! And this man was the Lord and Master of<BR>
> all the lands withing sight! Without the guide, I would have never labeled<BR>
> this as a noble's residence.  And that was the quarters of another human.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, a futon is a lot more comfortable than most matresses. Weird<BR>
but true! On the downside, you have to "fluff" it regularly , and<BR>
those suckers are *heavy*, but that's what servants are for... :-)<BR>
<BR>
And the thin walls weren't merely "tradition", as I understand it, they<BR>
were part of the defenses against assassins. Kinda hard to sneak up on<BR>
someone when you are backlighted against the paper. <BR>
<BR>
The wood block I'll give you, but I will note that I've had to use<BR>
similar "pillows" when sleeping in odd places. Except for my *ear*<BR>
getting a bit mashed, the hardness didn't really matter *near* as much<BR>
as the thickness.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:40:33 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/16/00 7:49:10 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I'm a left-handed Deadhead. Although I snipe right. >><BR>
<BR>
I shoot lefty, except for muzzleloaders, as I don't feel like frying my eyes <BR>
and screwing up the formations when I civil war reinact...<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: are there reinactors/living historians in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:42:56 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drives (LKWs thoughts)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:14:56 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, but the orbiter portion of the Mars Pathfinder mission shot new<BR>
> photos at higher resolution. The face really *was* just an artifact of<BR>
> image processing. There's nothing there but some hils and outcrops that<BR>
> were at the edge of resolution for the flights back in the 70s.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, and Roswell was just a weather balloon :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename, Dude!"<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:42:33 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Petty States<BR>
<BR>
On 03/16/00 at 07:47 PM,  Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Can't help you on that one, since in my Petty States universe the Imperium<BR>
>>gets halted pretty early during its expansion, so the Imperium never gets to<BR>
>>the point of rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
>>Here is the rough skeleton of what I have so far:<BR>
<BR>
>Chris, I absolutely must insist that this be written up in<BR>
>further detail - history, cultures, et cetera.<BR>
<BR>
>I must also insist that these have a home on the web.  I don't<BR>
>necessarily insist that that home be Freelance Traveller, but I would<BR>
>consider the space for it well allocated and available immediately (even<BR>
>if I couldn't get it on-line that fast).<BR>
<BR>
I'll second that!  I'd say this has the potential to be a really "killer" setting.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:04:01 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system (/Striker)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
...<BR>
>If you used classic, the hit number was modified by the armour, there was<BR>
no concept of penetration (or armour value).<BR>
>So all you had was a roll to hit.<BR>
>For Classic, there were no combat rules for vehicles unless you also owned<BR>
Striker.<BR>
<BR>
  To be fair, Striker was highly recommended for the quasi-wargamers in the<BR>
CT crowd; the rest shouldn't have needed/wanted detailed vehicle combat.<BR>
<BR>
>In striker, there was penetration. (Although not having read the rules, I<BR>
do not know how the hit numbers were modified by the armour value, or even<BR>
if they were...)<BR>
<BR>
  Size was the main target hit mod; armour affected surviving a hit.<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>In High guard it was roll to hit, then see if you penetrate the armour.<BR>
>There was really no way to determine what happened when a vehicle fired at<BR>
a starship, or vice vera, or what happened when a personal weapon was used<BR>
on a vehicle<BR>
<BR>
  Striker covered starship weapons, although not in great detail - it's more<BR>
than a little bit like "what happens if a 120mm mortar round hits my mini-van?".<BR>
Personal weapons vs vehicles wasn't covered _really_ well due to some scaling<BR>
oddities at the low end ("my body pistol disables the trucks engine?!"), but<BR>
against AFV's proper the results made sense, as only fairly hefty weapons can<BR>
drill AV 6+ with any reliability or effect.<BR>
<BR>
  Yeah, I still use Striker :><BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson <BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:02:01 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:47:55, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 02:12 PM 3/16/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
> >In a message dated 3/16/00 6:28:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
> >gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><< nd how he fares against left-handed red heads.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hey Penguin Boy! Watch it; I'm a left handed read head....:-)<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm a left-handed Deadhead.<BR>
<BR>
I'm left-handed and in need of a haircut.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename, Dude!"<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:23:35 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
...<BR>
>Also MT had some really odd ideas (from HG and Striker) about how much <BR>
>power it takes to run things like weapons. 250 MW for a laser turret? <BR>
>Bearing in mind that each space combet turn in MT was 20 minutes either <BR>
>those turrets would never miss (enormous RoF) or they'd blow anything <BR>
>in space away with one hit.<BR>
<BR>
  Hmm, but can the figures be made to work for space combat? (forget the<BR>
AFV across the apron from the scouts turret laser - if it doesn't hole<BR>
the turret first - POOF!). IIRC, 250MW/s = 250 MJ (?), so that's not <BR>
too out of line with the T4/FF&S2 ROF's, leaving the question of "what<BR>
ranges do ROF 800-1200 laser fight at to get <1.0 hits per turn?".<BR>
<BR>
  And what can a 250MW/s pulse be expected to do to a sturdy target,<BR>
and what collimation do various ranges require?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:24:42 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sword world names [long]<BR>
<BR>
>Any corrections and additions are welcome, provided there are references.<BR>
>Personally I'm most interested in mythical, legendary, and historical<BR>
>swords, not so much in modern day fiction.<BR>
<BR>
Since you have a couple of Tolkien's swords in there:<BR>
<BR>
Anglachel -- the Tolkienesque version of Gram, sword used by Turin Turambar<BR>
to slay the Glaurung the golden, first and greatest of the dragons.<BR>
(Silmarillion pp. 201-02, 207-10, 213, 216, 225, 226, 361)<BR>
<BR>
Anguriel -- sister sword of Anglachel in Tolkien mythology, forged by the<BR>
Teleri elf Eol. (Silmarillion pp. 202)<BR>
<BR>
Gurthang -- another name for Anglachel. (Silmarillion pp. 210)<BR>
<BR>
Herugrim -- sword of Theoden, king of Rohan. (The Two Towers, pp. 157)<BR>
<BR>
Ringil -- the sword of Fingolfin, a high king of the Noldor elves, who<BR>
fought the "Dark Enemy" Morgoth (Saron's old boss) in single combat and<BR>
wounded him seven times. (Silmarillion pp. 153-54, 363)<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:32:58 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
>They pry open the nose, take a look at all<BR>
>the circuit boards. One person asks,<BR>
>"where are the vacuum tubes?" They<BR>
>lacked the technological baseline to<BR>
>understand the workings of what they<BR>
>saw.<BR>
<BR>
Actually one of the characters (Jens Larsen haven't read the series<BR>
in a while) working on the Radar at the Aerodrome mentions that an<BR>
American had put forth the theory of "Solid State Electronics". This man<BR>
immediately makes the connection without ever before seeing an example<BR>
of this type of electronics<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:30:37 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> Bags:  Glisten/Aster (1739)<BR>
<BR>
Sigh. Capital/Core.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:34:05 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
On 03/16/00 at 11:53 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard says:<BR>
<BR>
><< Old? You? Hah!<BR>
> <BR>
> I turned 45 last month... >><BR>
<BR>
>Still got ya beat. <BR>
<BR>
Same here...chronologically. Mentally, maybe not. <g>  <BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    old coot!<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:36:03 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
On 03/16/00 at 08:34 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual Europe or US, <BR>
>> and/or show it from the perspective of a Earth eclipse of the moon so <BR>
>> you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
<BR>
>That'd have to be an eclipse of the *Sun* by the earth. <BR>
<BR>
>Also, unless Earth has gotten *remarkably* drier, the cloud cover will<BR>
>mask most details.<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't there massive flooding and change of coastline mentioned somewhere?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:01:45 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Military types vs 7th graders  TML # 2083<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> By whether or not officers can read it :)<BR>
<BR>
Oh.... Written in crayon or not.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:58:30 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Weather Control<BR>
<BR>
>>>>This is like the Butterfly flapping it's<BR>
>>>>wings in the Amazon and causing a<BR>
>>>>Tornado to destroy a house in<BR>
>>>>Oklahoma. But, what if that Butterfly<BR>
>>>>did not flap it's wings? <BR>
<BR>
>>>The Tornado skips the house and wipes out three nearby mobile homes. <BR>
<BR>
>>>But then, the Oklahoma Air National<BR>
>>>Guard finally scrambles some F-16's,<BR>
>>>shoots it down, and we declare war on<BR>
>>>Britain again. ;-P <BR>
<BR>
>>Damn time zones! That was *my* joke!<BR>
>>;-) <BR>
<BR>
>Of course, it could be a German or an<BR>
>Italian Tornado... <BR>
<BR>
K ... sooo a Weather Control satellite is nothing more than a defense<BR>
satellite firing a lo-power laser into the Amazon and scarring a<BR>
ButterFly into flight?<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:55:56 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Yaskodray<BR>
<BR>
>   So I can't see why Call of the Cthulhu & Delta Green could not be <BR>
> incorporated into Traveller...in fact, I think that Delta Green is the <BR>
> perfect mechanism...the cults amongst the stars would just have a <BR>
> hard time justifying the End Time.  <BR>
<BR>
> So I think one would have to think of a larger <BR>
> conspiracy...any ideas anyone?<BR>
<BR>
I'd just let the players find the Lexx...<BR>
<BR>
And ensure that it only responds to the weakest, most suggestible character<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:04:38 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> For example, Vilani might have a "Type C" blood type that is common<BR>
> among them. Say they have Type B and Type C, but not type A. So Vilani<BR>
> blood types would be B[1], BC, C, and O. So type C & BC blood would be<BR>
> proof of Vilani ancestry, types A & AB blood type would be proof of<BR>
> Solomani ancestry,<BR>
<BR>
Damn.... ABneg I am.... Least I look good in black.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:08:35 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 307 Ale<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> where do you think Scouts Brew comes from!<BR>
<BR>
 Mountain Dew spiked with Tequllia, Lsd, and speed......<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:07:23 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: TNE Mailing List<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know of a TNE mailing list?<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:19:21 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
<BR>
R.D. Elliott wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>         Ritual?  I was under the impression that cannibalism was a<BR>
> significant if not major part of the diet...<BR>
<BR>
Sure what do you think they did with the body at the Funeral?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:13:43 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Life at pH 0.05....<BR>
<BR>
> >Like that Australian gold mining outfit in Romania that have<BR>
> >managed to kill an entire river system in the name of marginal<BR>
> >profit.<BR>
> >My opinion is that they should be drug out and shot.<BR>
> >Repeatedly. Starting at the toes.<BR>
><BR>
> You're obviously one of them soft-on-crime libber-alls, Bruce.<BR>
> I think they should be made to live in or on the river.<BR>
<BR>
This has been blown up a bit, the Australian company only _owns_ the<BR>
Romanian mining company that is actually responsible for the damage, and the<BR>
lack of maintenance, poor design, and lack of appropriate regulations or<BR>
enforcement that led to the spill not being contained was caused _before_<BR>
the Romanian company was bought by the Australians.<BR>
<BR>
Blaming the Australians is a way for the Romanians to deny responsibility<BR>
for their own mistakes and try and force some one else to pay for it.<BR>
<BR>
It's as if an Australian company had bought Three Mile Island a few months<BR>
before the incident there.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:35:59 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Face<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> << c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?) >><BR>
> <BR>
> Speaking of the face, does anybody know where I can find the photos that JPL <BR>
> released showing Kermit the Frog in a lava flow? <BR>
> <BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
Didn't know JPL were into making muppet-snuff.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:40:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know of a TNE mailing list?<BR>
> <BR>
> -Shocky<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, I'm not sure as it's been a long time, but I believe *this* is the TNE<BR>
mailing list.  IIRC, the Classic/MT Mail list (the name 'X-Boat' springs to<BR>
mind), sort of faded into nothingness.  There used to be two mailing lists<BR>
here, but I think the other is long gone (as in around '96).<BR>
<BR>
				Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:48:31 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
> > Every RPG has its hook, however. The World of Darkness games are rich in<BR>
> > background and attitude and they focus on unhindered dramatist-style<BR>
> > roleplaying. I'm not sure how that gets defined as<BR>
> "semi-interactive novel<BR>
> > writing". AD&D tends to lend itself toward small, but balanced groups<BR>
> > facing off against progressively more difficult challenges... and so on.<BR>
><BR>
> In truth I don't know what their stuff is like now, but back when<BR>
> Vampire first came out I read one of WW's published adventures, and the<BR>
> thing that most struch me was that the PC's were effectivly there<BR>
> solely to provide dialogue. It was so pre-set it wasn't funny. To make<BR>
> matters worse as far as I could tell from the rules that's how they<BR>
> expected the "Storyteller" to write their own adventures (oops -<BR>
> stories). The very name "Storyteller" pretty much sums it up for me.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, most early Traveller adventures are pretty much like this too. The<BR>
great "Twilight's Peak" is pretty much a pre-programmed travelogue unless<BR>
you have a good storyteller who can hide the rail-roading.<BR>
<BR>
Those early VtM modules were not much better.<BR>
<BR>
WW games emphasize storytelling, but the idea is that the _players_ tell<BR>
their character's stories, as well as help other players tell their stories.<BR>
The Storyteller is supposed to be there to assist this.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I run Traveller the same way I run Mage and Vampire, so I may be<BR>
biased.<BR>
<BR>
Haven't run my Traveller LARP yet, but am working on it.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:52:17 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover<BR>
<BR>
>Here's the info I need. Since the cover is<BR>
>going to show Earth, and a starport in<BR>
>orbit around it (as well as a LOT of<BR>
>in-system traffic), has there ever been<BR>
>any published mention and / or<BR>
>illustrations of the main Earth starport?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse,<BR>
These might help you with the drawing. These are Artist Conceptions of<BR>
the International Space Station and "Space Station Freedom":<BR>
<BR>
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/artistconcept/ndxpage1.html<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:16:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
<BR>
> Thu following wsw run thrum a sepulchers automatically an straight<BR>
> form me to yuan.  What I really wanted to type was, "The following<BR>
> was run through a spellchecker automatically and straight from me to<BR>
> you."  You can see the hash the spellchecker made of it.  <g><BR>
<BR>
You're either, er, tellling fibs, or have an _extremely_ bad spell checker<BR>
that should never have been released to the public.<BR>
<BR>
How can any spellchecker generate words that don't exist ?<BR>
(Such as "Thu" "wsw" "thrum" & "yuan" )<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2107<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2108<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]<BR>
RE: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)<BR>
RE: Traveller with Alternity<BR>
RE: ACQ<BR>
RE: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
RE: Sworld world names?<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
Re: TL25  (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
RE: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mi ndset)<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
Re: Scout Brew (was Re: 307 Ale)<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Colonial TL (long)<BR>
Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
Re: AECO<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:23:42 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
Looking at a past issue of World War II magazine, I came across an<BR>
article of the P-80 Twin Mustang. This is basically the joining of 2<BR>
P-51d Mustangs (in the style of the P-38 Lightning "Fork Tailed Devil")<BR>
in the hopes of increasing speed and firepower.<BR>
<BR>
What I am wondering is; <BR>
What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined together then<BR>
launched into jump space using one ship's jump drive, then in the jump,<BR>
activating the other ship's jump drive ....<BR>
<BR>
Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
<BR>
Any opinions are welcome ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:38:45 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP REASON 4 yusin "your" insted ow "you are" [sic]<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Walter Smith<BR>
> Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> >The average non-native speaker of English has *studied* it more than<BR>
> >the average American, I think.<BR>
><BR>
> True, at least for the technical details. An "average American" should<BR>
> have an advantage for comfortable usage, speed of comprehension, and<BR>
> flexibility (with regards to assimilating or understanding slang terms,<BR>
> regional accents and such).<BR>
<BR>
Not your "average American". Your "average American" has probably only ever<BR>
heard English spoken by villians in movies.<BR>
<BR>
> This is because the average non-native speaker of English has been<BR>
> exposed to a (relatively) tiny quantity of technically perfect English,<BR>
<BR>
Just like an  "average American".<BR>
<BR>
> I know that most Americans cease formal study of English at or before<BR>
> age 18<BR>
<BR>
Most American never do _any_ formal study of English.<BR>
They are taught "American" in what are referred to as "schools", obviously<BR>
derived from the term describing large numbers of fish moving in much the<BR>
same direction, rather than the educational meaning.<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:43:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN)<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry, but with all those ins and outs, I'd have to say that this sounds<BR>
> much more like a bedroom sport than a field one :-)<BR>
<BR>
You've obviously never been caught on a sticky, or had to deal with a googly<BR>
at silly mid-on just before bad light stopped play.<BR>
<BR>
Drinks, Gentlemen ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:57:16 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller with Alternity<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn<BR>
<BR>
> >  > When I got Alternity I was stuck by how much the rules owed to<BR>
> >  > Traveller, especially TNE. Yet everyone I've met claims it's<BR>
> > > an AD&D  knock-off.<BR>
<BR>
It is. Though now, with AD&D 3 adopting the Alternity system, AD&D is an<BR>
Alternity knock-off.<BR>
<BR>
> Seems strange to me that an AD&D clone would have a task<BR>
> system like TNE's,<BR>
<BR>
TNE's task system is pretty derivative itself, so Alternity could easily<BR>
have copied from the same sources that TNE's authors did. There have been<BR>
previously published task systems for AD&D that are more similar to<BR>
Alternity's than TNE is.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the way Alternity handles difficulties is pretty unique, and those<BR>
difficulties are part of the Alternity task system.<BR>
<BR>
> a stat range like Traveller's,<BR>
<BR>
There a large number of systems with similar stat ranges.<BR>
<BR>
> guns from CT<BR>
<BR>
Huh ?<BR>
CT never had any guns that were specific to CT, so how can you say the guns<BR>
in Alternity came from CT ?<BR>
<BR>
> 5 day jumps,<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, that's not how I read it. In Alternity the jump is pretty much<BR>
instantaneous. What takes the time is recharging the drive, and that can be<BR>
speeded up by tech advances or a skilled engineer.<BR>
<BR>
Also, in Alternity, large ships can jump _huge_ distances compared to<BR>
smalller ships. The "Lighthouse" for instance, can cross the space betwen<BR>
the edge and the core in about a hundredth of the time a small merchant can.<BR>
<BR>
And take along a large number of small ships with it.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> > Yes, I turn 30 tomorrow, why do you ask?<BR>
><BR>
> Ha! You spring chicken you! I turned 30 six weeks ago (didn't feel much<BR>
> different in the morning, either). At least now I have an excuse for<BR>
> feeling old and decrepit.<BR>
<BR>
Hah ! 30 was luxury ! Oh to be thirty again !<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:12:48 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: ACQ<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Smith Walter<BR>
> Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
> >I was being snarky, I've loved Champions since the first edition, and<BR>
> >it is one of the few games I still get to play.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm a Champions fan since 1st ed as well. My last long-running RPG<BR>
> campaign was Justice, Inc. (the 1930's pulp adventure tales version<BR>
> of the Champions rules), and I'd love to make the time to run<BR>
> some four-color hero stuff again.<BR>
<BR>
Ditto<BR>
<BR>
Champions was one of the first rule-sets we used for "cross-genre" games,<BR>
long before GURPS came out.<BR>
<BR>
> >Douglas Berry, aka Steel Rainbow of the Bay Guardians<BR>
><BR>
> Walt Smith, aka Sunturion of the LA Swordsmen, aka Whiteraven<BR>
> of the New York City Guardians.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie, aka "The Grey Ghost"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:23:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
><BR>
> I'll let Herb the mutant potted plant answer that one.<BR>
><BR>
> "Thanks Doug! Y'see meat-things, the Wardn was the badly designed<BR>
> generation ship in TSR's Metamorphosis Alpha game. Set after a mysterious<BR>
> radiation accident has decimated the crew and colonists, the characters<BR>
> wander about a dungeon, err, a ship filled with improbable<BR>
> mutants like me.<BR>
> Now submit to my will, meat beings! Your reign of terror is over!! Ooops,<BR>
> sorry, that's the other brain, Daisy, speaking. She has issues."<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of brains, a player in that game once got the mutation "extra<BR>
brain"<BR>
or something like that, and so proceeeded to use it as a weapon.<BR>
<BR>
When ever he ran into opponents, he'd yell "I throw my extra brain at them!"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:26:55 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Sworld world names?<BR>
<BR>
>On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
> Maybe when everyone left Middle Earth on the<BR>
> Elven ships, they travelled to the Sword Worlds ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Makes sense to me.<BR>
Were the Grey Havens an A or B class starport ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:30:41 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
>The lowliest sailor in the US Navy uses<BR>
>technology that the President of <BR>
>Iberia can't even begin to imagine. <BR>
<BR>
Isn't it possible that at a high enough tech level one may may throw off<BR>
the material *luxuries* in favor of the mind? <BR>
<BR>
Possibly through the use of VR they lived their luxurious lifestyles. In<BR>
their minds their public rest rooms were more opulent than the Taj<BR>
Mahal, yet their living quarters were just that? Just a place to sleep.<BR>
<BR>
If your peers could also visit your VR world there would be no reason<BR>
for a palatial mansion or any exotic lifestyle.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the exotic lifestyle is living with the minimal *physical*<BR>
lifestyle?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:34:11 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
>The problem lies more with rather dull<BR>
>people who on the other hand think that<BR>
>they are very clever but are unable to<BR>
>understand anything that isn't served on<BR>
>a tablet to them.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps listening to him further is our *toll* for crossing the Trolls<BR>
bridge<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:37:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- --- Sword-Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
> > First and foremost Canon is not the holy grail<BR>
> that it seems like from the<BR>
> > out side John. All you have to do is place 4<BR>
> letters in front of any<BR>
> > statement and nullify it. IMTU- In my traveller<BR>
> universe. The ppl that are<BR>
> > on this list has available to them a background<BR>
> and wealth of traveller<BR>
> > stuff that many new gamers can't get their hands<BR>
> on. My humble collection<BR>
> of<BR>
> > traveller stuff and it is humble even though I<BR>
> believe it's atleast 2 feet<BR>
> > tall if all the books and everything is laid on<BR>
> it's side is dwarfed by<BR>
> the<BR>
> > bootie that's in some of the other ppl that<BR>
> regularly talk here. CANON is<BR>
> > the official party line and IMO only important<BR>
> when playing in a truly<BR>
> large<BR>
> > world size AKA a con.<BR>
> <BR>
> Having the stuff doesn't make you more important in<BR>
> the TML community.  My<BR>
> collection is in no way humble, yet nobody gives a<BR>
> hoot what I say :-p  Not<BR>
> only that, I'm still a heretic with a TU that<BR>
> ignores 100% of the canon<BR>
> setting and even postulates a different jump<BR>
> technology (horrors).  So don't<BR>
> get the idea that this phenomena is something<BR>
> specific to the TML.  Some<BR>
> folks will be snobs about anything, even if it is<BR>
> only imaginary ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I'm actually not fighting cannon.T. is great<BR>
fiction.But fiction is not supposed to hold water<BR>
agaainst logic(why should it?If you are willing to<BR>
accept antigrav,reaktionless thrusters and so on,a<BR>
little unrealism in history and archeology shouldn't matter).<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:45:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
> Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> > >Since everything in a dig site is Deadly Serious,<BR>
> in the past most of<BR>
> > >the small objects were identified as ritual<BR>
> items, shaman's totems, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah,I have to admit this  is a mayor problem in<BR>
historical science:When they dig out your G. I. Joe<BR>
toys out in 500 years,they will think it's a fetish<BR>
from a warrior cult. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > >Many of the items were _toys_ used by small<BR>
> children.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I wonder what a TL25 toy built for a human child<BR>
> would be like.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the things for a 1 to 3 old wouldn't be<BR>
build on much different principles than today:What can<BR>
be used by  a toddler,after all?<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:47:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TL25  (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
> Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I wonder what a TL25 toy built for a human child<BR>
> would be like.<BR>
<BR>
What tech do you have  on TL 25?<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:43:19 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn<BR>
> > The point of the WW system IMHO is that it's used to make the<BR>
> role playing<BR>
> > more inportant then what dice you roll. The WW system is surpose to<BR>
> > disappear behind the story.<BR>
><BR>
> Well in that case they made a big mess, IMO. The system doesn't<BR>
> disappear behind the story, gives different results from what the game<BR>
> thinks you should get, and has some strange skill level/botch/critical<BR>
> interactions. Yech.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the perception that it has strange botch/skill-level/critical<BR>
interactions comes from people having a poor understanding of statistics.<BR>
<BR>
This argument was brought up by some of my players once, along with<BR>
a reference to an oft=quoted website that purported to show that the odds<BR>
were all stuffed up.<BR>
<BR>
So, one of my players who has the apropriate training proceeded to show how<BR>
this website was wrong, and that the writer did not understand the<BR>
statistics properly. They are actualy far more complex than people usually<BR>
release, and the impression that you are more likley to botch with a higher<BR>
skill level, turns out to be just that, just an impression.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, while the distributions are not smooth (only one system I know has<BR>
almost smooth distributions, and that was designed by another statistician<BR>
friend of mine ) the dice _do_ work how the game thinks they do.<BR>
<BR>
The complexity and rule-breaking part in WW games is in the "special<BR>
powers", some of which can really unbalance the game<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:53:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Date: 16 March 2000 22:22<BR>
> Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> It certainly isn't *common* knowledge at the time,<BR>
> and they had a variety of<BR>
> theories as to what the relationship between the<BR>
> Ancients and modern Droyne<BR>
> was, as illustrated on p14 of AM5, which covers the<BR>
> 4 most popular theories,<BR>
> none of which is 100% true, as they didn't realise<BR>
> how few Ancients there<BR>
> really were, and that the Droyne are only the<BR>
> 'cousins' of the Ancients<BR>
> rather than the descendants.<BR>
<BR>
Well,since they aren't Yaskoydray's descendants,they<BR>
actually ARE the cousins of the 421 Ancients.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:55:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
- --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On 16 Mar 00, at 10:23, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The problem lies more with rather dull people who<BR>
> on<BR>
> > the other hand think that they are very clever but<BR>
> are<BR>
> > unable to understand anything that isn't served on<BR>
> a<BR>
> > tablet to them.<BR>
> <BR>
> Here we are prestented with the reason for the bad<BR>
> punctuation - <BR>
> "served on a tablet..." this suggests to me someone<BR>
> who is used to <BR>
> using a wax tablet for writing <BR>
<BR>
And since you are resorting to silly comparisons,it is<BR>
clear that my statement is right.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:06:08 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
> >Many of the items were _toys_ used by small children.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wonder what a TL25 toy built for a human child would be like.<BR>
<BR>
Same as any other, a cardboard box.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:06:08 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TL25 Kids' Toys? (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
> >Many of the items were _toys_ used by small children.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wonder what a TL25 toy built for a human child would be like.<BR>
<BR>
Same as any other, a cardboard box.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:56:02 -0000<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mi ndset)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 4:26 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani <BR>
> history and<BR>
> mindset)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Hydrogen was being acceleratied and "smashed" into <BR>
> elementary particles in a <BR>
> > particle accelerator. Then the basic particles  produced <BR>
> were squeezed into <BR>
> > a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of <BR>
> Lanthanium. The idea <BR>
> > was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
> <BR>
> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and <BR>
> Aluminum.<BR>
<BR>
Well over here it's AluminIUM, but otherwise, yes, it is LanthanUM.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:20:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> >> There is far more to "Traveller" than JUST the<BR>
> >> setting, or the rules. It's<BR>
> >> a combination of game-philosphy, setting and<BR>
> >> mechanics.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Sorry, but this is to mystiefied. It's a RPG, not a<BR>
> >philosophy. And people don't buy philosophies in<BR>
> game<BR>
> >shops,<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes they do.  They buy the designer's philosophy on<BR>
> design, and the<BR>
> publishers philosophy on layout and appearance.<BR>
<BR>
And I always thought that people are buying games to<BR>
have fun there:Now I have to realize these are the<BR>
21TH century versions of greek philosophers schools.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:20:10 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew (was Re: 307 Ale)<BR>
<BR>
Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Shadowcat wrote:<BR>
> > where do you think Scouts Brew comes from!<BR>
<BR>
>  Mountain Dew spiked with Tequllia, Lsd, and speed......<BR>
<BR>
Remember that the effects of scout brew table (TD #14 ?)<BR>
included several "wake up married" effects - not<BR>
always to beings of your own species or an appropriate<BR>
(for you) gender. Therefore I think that Scout Brew must<BR>
include some sort of aphrodisiacs. <BR>
<BR>
IMTU making proper (i.e. the sort that causes, in MT terms,<BR>
a 4d6 mishap and not merely a 3d6 mishap)  Scout brew <BR>
requires close proximity to jump space. I figure that<BR>
scouts put the appropriate ingredients on the outside of <BR>
the hull. Naturally this means that field Scouts have<BR>
better brew than base Scouts. I figure that field Scouts,<BR>
especially X-boat pilots, trade some of their top quality<BR>
Scout brew for some of the other comforts base Scouts can<BR>
acquire.<BR>
<BR>
[Naturally creating Scout Brew that is the "real"<BR>
reason why so many Scouts have Jack of all Trade skill -<BR>
making good Scout Brew requires a little knowledge of a<BR>
lot of areas.]<BR>
<BR>
Or, as Wednesday Adams would put it, "Is it made from<BR>
_real_ Scouts?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:21:30 -0000<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: john hamilton [mailto:johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com]<BR>
> --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > On 16 Mar 00, at 10:23, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > The problem lies more with rather dull people who<BR>
> > on<BR>
> > > the other hand think that they are very clever but<BR>
> > are<BR>
> > > unable to understand anything that isn't served on<BR>
> > a<BR>
> > > tablet to them.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Here we are prestented with the reason for the bad<BR>
> > punctuation - <BR>
> > "served on a tablet..." this suggests to me someone<BR>
> > who is used to <BR>
> > using a wax tablet for writing <BR>
> <BR>
> And since you are resorting to silly comparisons,it is<BR>
> clear that my statement is right.<BR>
<BR>
Ahh, of course, how silly to think of wax tablets... you were obviously<BR>
referring to tablets of stone, as per the Ten Commandments... <g><BR>
<BR>
And of course your statement is correct, unfortunately you think it<BR>
applies to other people.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:23:11 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Colonial TL (long)<BR>
<BR>
Would there be some sort of Bureau or Agency in charge of new colonies<BR>
at the beginning of Terran expansion? <BR>
<BR>
If so, wouldn't there be a Protocol for new settlements? Meaning; are<BR>
you researching a new item? Are you producing a new item? What is the<BR>
reason for this new world?<BR>
<BR>
Would Political or Religious doctrine be enough to form a new colony?<BR>
<BR>
In order to form this new colony wouldn't the Agency require constant,<BR>
up to date communication of your progress? If you have this line of<BR>
communications seems you should have a line of supply also to continue<BR>
the communication.<BR>
<BR>
This line would provide maintenance and repair or the communication<BR>
system. But, Why would a ship travel to you with just for a few<BR>
transistors and resistors? They could also load up on vehicles or<BR>
weapons or whatnot to bring/sell to you also<BR>
<BR>
As long as your Parent World is functioning and capable you should<BR>
receive their tech goods. Looking at our only *modern* extra-planetary<BR>
colony I see Mir, which has a much higher tech level than what is<BR>
available to the ordinary person here.<BR>
<BR>
I would say that a Colony/Settlement must produce a higher tech level of<BR>
a particular item in order to get a charter to exist. Although their<BR>
base tech might/should be considerably lower in terms of Life Style and<BR>
Transportation.<BR>
<BR>
In example: I can see a group of Mormon Extremist running a horse drawn<BR>
carriage to a starport to launch a Shuttle to repair an orbital<BR>
satellite.<BR>
<BR>
In the case of a communication loss from the parent world, however, the<BR>
TL can only be what the colony/settlement can produce on their own<BR>
without outside assistance. (TNEish)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:48:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
<BR>
yes there is one you can do the subscribe thing at the following address<BR>
tne-rces@silent-tower.org<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net <houstonshocky@webtv.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 3:09 AM<BR>
Subject: TNE Mailing List<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know of a TNE mailing list?<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:58:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: AECO<BR>
<BR>
hey lkw send me the key I'll go pick it up for ya.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:56 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: AECO<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><< Loren, if you're reading this, would you please settle what AECO<BR>
> stands for?  (African European Cooperative Organization?)<BR>
>  >><BR>
><BR>
>I don't remember off the top of my head. Most of my Traveller stuff is<BR>
still<BR>
>in a rental locker 1500 miles away<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:37:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu> wrote:<BR>
> john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> >The problem lies more with rather dull people who<BR>
> on <BR>
> >the other hand think that they are very clever but<BR>
> are <BR>
> >unable to understand anything that isn't served on<BR>
> a <BR>
> >tablet to them. <BR>
> <BR>
> "Everyone else must be a bunch of idiots,<BR>
<BR>
Well,it's just a loud minority.<BR>
<BR>
 > The defense of bad grammar is a lost cause around<BR>
> here,<BR>
> John. C'mon, let's get back to believability of 3I<BR>
> xenoarchaeology, it's more fun!<BR>
> <BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2108<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2109<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Ancients<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: TL25 Kids' Toys?<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)<BR>
Re: T4 Ship Combat System<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mi ndset)<BR>
Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Drives (LKW4s thoughts)<BR>
Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Scotch 2<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
Re: AECO<BR>
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:43:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- --- Thing <gduke@telebyte.com> wrote:<BR>
> On Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:02 AM<BR>
> Matt Bond said,<BR>
> <BR>
> > But millions of scientist, using such conflicting<BR>
> evidence, and the<BR>
> fact<BR>
> > that communication lags hinder exchange of ideas,<BR>
> and political<BR>
> borders<BR>
> > leave many sites unavailable for study, will come<BR>
> up with hundreds, if<BR>
> > not thousands of theories as to who the ancients<BR>
> were.<BR>
> <BR>
> And there is a great tendency for people to reject<BR>
> any data that does<BR>
> not fit the current theory until there is an<BR>
> overwhelming amount of<BR>
> evidence.  Like the scene in Stargate where Doctor<BR>
> Jackson tells people<BR>
> that he thinks the Egyptians didn't build the<BR>
> pyramids.<BR>
<BR>
Yes,but a few weeks latter he is fighting Ra on a<BR>
distance planet,founded by Uncle Sam.......<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps this is the answer:<BR>
TL 25 is ....well,somewhat powerfull.And if 40 servant<BR>
populations could have survived,then also  alot of<BR>
tech.And the 3I is knows what the Ancients are,but<BR>
repress the information ,to make it easier for it's<BR>
own teams of Lara Crofts on artifact hunts.<BR>
The "making of the connection to the Droyne" was just<BR>
a information leakage that couldn't be stopped any<BR>
more.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:51:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: john<BR>
> > And since you are resorting to silly<BR>
> comparisons,it is<BR>
> > clear that my statement is right.<BR>
> <BR>
> And of course your statement is correct,<BR>
> unfortunately you think it<BR>
> applies to other people.<BR>
<BR>
Well,since my statement (containing "I") cannot be<BR>
applied to other  people,your reply is ,as usually,<BR>
ignoring logic for the sake of cheap remarks.<BR>
Yes,it's nice when you show your true (rather bland) colors,boy.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:50:43 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>Would the various races of the 3I still<BR>
>have lethal combat in their sports at the<BR>
>expense of worthy warriors that could<BR>
>fight elsewhere, or would things like<BR>
>paint wars and gloves in boxing matches<BR>
>seem more likely to you?<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking of a giant, continental or planetary paint ball/pseudo-<BR>
war game<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:52:35 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TL25 Kids' Toys?<BR>
<BR>
john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > > Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> > > >most of the small objects were identified as ritual<BR>
> > items, shaman's totems, etc.<BR>
<BR>
> I have to admit this  is a mayor problem in<BR>
> historical science: When they dig out your G. I. Joe<BR>
> toys out in 500 years, they will think it's a fetish<BR>
> from a warrior cult.<BR>
<BR>
And they will be right.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:53:01 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> Well over here it's AluminIUM, but otherwise, yes, it is LanthanUM.<BR>
<BR>
Differences between British and American English. I would claim that in<BR>
British English, it is spelled "Lanthanium."<BR>
<BR>
Color, colour, armor, armour.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:57:15 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> I had a character who believed that the _Vargr_ were the<BR>
> Ancients. It had been her father's pet theory,<BR>
<BR>
Or maybe her father's pet's theory...<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:02:40 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:26:26   Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Hydrogen was being acceleratied and "smashed" into elementary particles in a <BR>
>> particle accelerator. Then the basic particles  produced were squeezed into <BR>
>> a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The idea <BR>
>> was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
><BR>
>just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and Aluminum.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you are right... and so am I, both spellings are correct. I suspect it's a cultural thing.<BR>
<BR>
>> One thing they worked out real quick... when the Vilani asked them where <BR>
>> they were from, they didn't tell them.<BR>
><BR>
>I guess you (and they) never read Murray Leinster's *classic* First<BR>
>Contact story. He points out a few "problems" with meeting aliens in<BR>
>deep space, rather than on worlds belonging to either of you.<BR>
<BR>
No... I haven't, do you know the name of the story? I would be interested in reading it!<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:07:20 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
"Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
>> Here's (basically) the way combat worked in MT:<BR>
><BR>
><snipped explanation><BR>
><BR>
>    I remember that now. No problems, the part that I was actually having<BR>
>problems with was below...<BR>
><BR>
>> The "UCP vs. UCP" thing was starship combat, and it was just a port over<BR>
>of<BR>
>> the "High Guard" rules from Classic Traveller.  There you would compare<BR>
>> weapon and defensive ratings to determine if you hit and penetrated, then<BR>
>> roll on a damage table for the results.  It was a bit abstract.<BR>
><BR>
>    I do not remember the exact tables, but one of the things that I do<BR>
>remember is that the pulse-turret weapons looked something like this...<BR>
>UWP-1: 1 laser<BR>
>UWP-2: 3 lasers<BR>
>UWP-3: 5 or 6 lasers.<BR>
><BR>
>    Then when you compared the defense, it was a cross-chart using the<BR>
>UWP vs. the defense and that came out with a third number... Anyway,<BR>
>are all of the Traveller variants designed with this "peculiar" method or<BR>
>was it only MT?<BR>
>    Since you said that this was a port over from the HG rules in CT, I<BR>
>presume that CT and MT used that same rules system, but what about<BR>
>the other versions?<BR>
>    This was about the only area that I REALLY had problems with for<BR>
>MT when I was running it before. Maybe I was really missing something<BR>
>in it all- just didn't seem right to me that you'd need so much more fire-<BR>
>power to increase the UWP rating by 1 step.<BR>
><BR>
>Thoughts and further explanations are most welcome :-)<BR>
<BR>
As I understand it, it comes from a real-world feature of weapons.<BR>
<BR>
It is true that three lasers that penetrate armour do three times<BR>
as many hits as a single laser, they aren't three times as good<BR>
at penetrating armour. I'm not sure of the exact math but if you<BR>
think that making a hole twice as deep also requires that hole<BR>
to be a larger diameter as well, you get the picture.<BR>
<BR>
The result is that to compare weapons from blowpipes all the<BR>
way through starship spinal mounts to near-c rocks means that<BR>
either you use some sort of log scale (where 1+1<2) or you<BR>
end up with weapon and armour values in the hundred thousands.<BR>
<BR>
Gurps uses the latter approach. Traveller has a history of<BR>
defining everything as a string of hex digits, so it uses<BR>
the log scale.<BR>
<BR>
The downside of the Gurps approach is that the rules have to<BR>
tell you how to compare 40,000 with 41,234 - I assume this is<BR>
resolved but I haven't read the rules.<BR>
<BR>
The downside of the Traveller approach is that you get artificial<BR>
breakpoints everywhere - use batteries of 10 or 30 lasers, never<BR>
15 or 27; use 400MJ lasers, not 600MJ or 750MJ (I don't have the<BR>
actual FF&S2 numbers to hand).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:12:18 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
<BR>
At 00:05 17/03/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-16 22:28:22 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
><< One of the better known ones (because it's told to all new recruits as <BR>
> a cautionary tale) is about some young chap who found two dud 40mm <BR>
> grenades (as above) and was banging them together in the back of a <BR>
> Landrover to show off to the female signaller who was with him. I've <BR>
> seen photos of the 'rover, and it was absolutely totalled. IIRC he died <BR>
> and the sig was blinded. I forget what happened to the driver, but they <BR>
> were at least badly injured. >><BR>
><BR>
>My reaction would have been to ask my self a non-rhetorical question: "What <BR>
>will hurt me more -- being 3 feet away from at least 1 detonating 40mm round <BR>
>or diving out of a jeep?"<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
Pushing the idiot out of the jeep?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:36:04 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: That's not Cricket! (was Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLERWENT DOWN)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:18 16.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>At 05:00 PM 3/15/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >In returen we'll tell you what a "high can of corn" is, when there are<BR>
>"ducks on the pond", what an "ice-cream cone" is, why a "frozen rope" is<BR>
>often no better than a "seeing eye grounder", and how to "turn on a slider"<BR>
>and "jack a tater" out of the yard. ;-><BR>
><BR>
>"He hit the ball *real* hard."<BR>
<BR>
...back at me like a bullet - never a chance to move...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:16:36 -0400<BR>
From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
Subject: Re: T4 Ship Combat System<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote<BR>
<BR>
>competing T4 ship combat rulesets (Mayday 4.1, RPSCS, Bruce Macintosh's<BR>
>MCS [my personal choice], maybe some others about which I have no<BR>
>information).<BR>
<BR>
Anyone know where can I get a copy of MCS?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:03:04 -0000<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: john hamilton [mailto:johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 11:51 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > > From: john<BR>
> > > And since you are resorting to silly<BR>
> > comparisons,it is<BR>
> > > clear that my statement is right.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > And of course your statement is correct,<BR>
> > unfortunately you think it<BR>
> > applies to other people.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well,since my statement (containing "I") cannot be<BR>
> applied to other  people,your reply is ,as usually,<BR>
> ignoring logic for the sake of cheap remarks.<BR>
> Yes,it's nice when you show your true (rather bland) colors,boy.<BR>
<BR>
????????!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, so it's "boy" now is it? Well in that case I doff my cap and tug<BR>
reverentially at my forelock, all aquiver in the presence of such<BR>
awe-inspiring intellect.<BR>
<BR>
I was referring to your statement:<BR>
<BR>
"The problem lies more with rather dull people who on the other hand<BR>
think that they are very clever but are unable to understand anything<BR>
that isn't served on a tablet to them." <sic><BR>
<BR>
Let us scan this paragraph for "I"... nope! can't find it.<BR>
<BR>
As you appear to believe yourself my intellectual superior, yet seem<BR>
incapable of understanding anyone else's position or argument, then I<BR>
feel that your statement regarding delusional dull people who cannot<BR>
understand unless things are handed them on a plate, does indeed apply<BR>
principally to yourself.<BR>
<BR>
As for the 'boy' crack, I'm 32, 6'2", 300lb, I have a BA in Archaeology,<BR>
and am currently employed as an analyst/programmer with an international<BR>
epos & software company. <BR>
<BR>
You are...?<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:09:05 -0000<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mi ndset)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jens Rydholm [mailto:jenry023@student.liu.se]<BR>
> Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> > Well over here it's AluminIUM, but otherwise, yes, it is LanthanUM.<BR>
> <BR>
> Differences between British and American English. I would <BR>
> claim that in<BR>
> British English, it is spelled "Lanthanium."<BR>
> <BR>
> Color, colour, armor, armour.<BR>
<BR>
British for Lanthanum *is* Lanthanum. Just as Platinum is still<BR>
Platinum.  Its only Aluminum (A-loom-in-um) that becomes Aluminium<BR>
(Al-you-min-ee-um)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:07:43 +0000<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't Cats and Rats have a map of Terra on the inside back cover with<BR>
the downports shown ?<BR>
<BR>
I don't have it here to check on but I'm almost sure it's there.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway hope this helps<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <<chuckle>>  I hoping you weren't an anti-Ditzie type when the Collection<BR>
> arrived without a note ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> My good friend Tim has the Dragon CD, so I've got that covered, but I don't<BR>
> have the TD#13.  Sounds like there's not a WHOLE lot there, but maybe some<BR>
> interesting info for the Earth's texture map.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks!<BR>
> Jesse<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:16:21 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> You can't seem to shake you early 21-century expectation about what luxury<BR>
> consists of.  These are aliens. Superintelligent, immortal, and in the end<BR>
> genocidal aliens. You can't expect to find a four poster bed and shag<BR>
> carpeting in Yaskodray's bedroom.<BR>
<BR>
Sure you can! Yeah, baby! Behave! Rrrowwrr!<BR>
<BR>
Grandchild: I don't want to be wiped out in a genocidal final war!<BR>
Yaskodray: And I want a solid gold toilet, but it ain't in the works, baby!<BR>
<BR>
From "Yaskodray: The Ancient that Shagged Me".<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:19:38 +0000<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Drives (LKW4s thoughts)<BR>
<BR>
> > In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Sorry, but the orbiter portion of the Mars Pathfinder mission shot new<BR>
> > photos at higher resolution. The face really *was* just an artifact of<BR>
> > image processing. There's nothing there but some hils and outcrops that<BR>
> > were at the edge of resolution for the flights back in the 70s.<BR>
<BR>
No it's the Vilani. They know we have moved into the computer age, so<BR>
they replace the face we once saw with a smily face instead.<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:16:24 +0100<BR>
From: Holger Kadlez <paradin@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Ewan Quibell schrieb:<BR>
> <BR>
> Doesn't Cats and Rats have a map of Terra on the inside back cover with<BR>
> the downports shown ?<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't have it here to check on but I'm almost sure it's there.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, it has. And there are some differences between our days map and this one.<BR>
<BR>
Anybody wants me to scan it ?<BR>
<BR>
Have a nice weekend,<BR>
	Paradin<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Anyway hope this helps<BR>
> <BR>
> Ewan<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > <<chuckle>>  I hoping you weren't an anti-Ditzie type when the Collection<BR>
> > arrived without a note ;)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > My good friend Tim has the Dragon CD, so I've got that covered, but I don't<BR>
> > have the TD#13.  Sounds like there's not a WHOLE lot there, but maybe some<BR>
> > interesting info for the Earth's texture map.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Thanks!<BR>
> > Jesse<BR>
> <BR>
> --<BR>
> <BR>
>    Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
>    Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
>    Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
>    University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
>                                       Rode the six hundred.<BR>
>    E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
> <BR>
>    #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
> <BR>
>    My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
> <BR>
>    University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:38:36 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Scotch 2<BR>
<BR>
At 23:53 16.03.00 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-16 13:13:17 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
><< Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis<BR>
> that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO). <BR>
>  >><BR>
><BR>
>Did I say I limited myself to one?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I know, that's not my problem, but: Wouldn't it be smart for you to have<BR>
all that stuff in office? (I am a bit jealous: This guy's being _paid_ for<BR>
his hobby!:) )<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:19:01 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
At 03:23 17.03.00 -0600, houstonshocky@webtv.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>What I am wondering is; <BR>
>What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined together then<BR>
>launched into jump space using one ship's jump drive, then in the jump,<BR>
>activating the other ship's jump drive ....<BR>
><BR>
>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
><BR>
>Any opinions are welcome ;)<BR>
<BR>
Well, to me it sounds reasonable that *nothing* will happen in such a case.<BR>
A jump drive is (at least in my jump space theory) mainly a device to push<BR>
an object from n-space into the jump space universe, where it stays for<BR>
about 170 hours and is then dropped by the jump space universe back into<BR>
n-space (because it is "foreign matter", ask a jump space physician about<BR>
further info). During those about 170 hours, the "layer" of jump space that<BR>
you _have_ entered determines the speed you travel at in jump space. So a<BR>
jump drive does nothing within the jump space universe.<BR>
<BR>
Activating a jump drive within the jump space universe won't do anything<BR>
because it's not built for that universe. The basic principles of physics<BR>
seem to be like in n-space, but the higher physics are obviously different. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:43:03 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
At 00:30 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Excellent suggestion. Since we are "pie-in-the-sky" wishing, how about also<BR>
>allowing the ref to restrict data by "date" as well...what I mean is that<BR>
>the ref can "filter" out all entries available to the players after any date<BR>
>specified by the ref.<BR>
><BR>
>Abel<BR>
>(p.'s. Of course this would be a six volume CD set where one image of a coyn<BR>
>is printed on each CD;)<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, on a CD? I think this would defeat the purpose of it being expandable.<BR>
<BR>
Try downloading a copy of Dirty Little Helper from http://dlh.net to see <BR>
what i had in mind.<BR>
Then adding in features that would allow censoring some of the news and <BR>
library data would be a good idea. (I think the program should include TNS <BR>
as well as LD)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:24:49 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
>    I don't see any benefit to SJG in having it on CD; that only gets into<BR>
>distribution and all the problems that entails.  There's also the question of<BR>
>updates, both official and GM-generated.<BR>
<BR>
My view exactly.<BR>
Try Dirty little helper (http://dlh.net) to see a program that does <BR>
something like what we need, but with cheats.<BR>
Its a small engine, with 1-2 MB updates available for download each month. <BR>
The updates only contain the new items, so you gradually build your <BR>
library. The updates can be made subscriber-only, with the main engine as <BR>
freeware to lure more subscribers.<BR>
We can send in our new items, which will be added to the updates every month.<BR>
<BR>
DLH has categories for PC, DC, PS, GB, and other consoles. Travellers <BR>
Little Informer (or whatever it will be called) may have categories for LD, <BR>
TNE, Items, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Go see for yourselves, DLH is freeware so itll only cost the DL. See what <BR>
i mean and try to imagine what we could do with a proggie like that.<BR>
<BR>
Just having the information online, like originally proposed by Loren, is <BR>
not what will make me subscribe to JTAS.<BR>
<BR>
>     (Actually, there's a product out called GM's Notebook which could <BR>
> probably<BR>
>be used in just about this way, but I'm not familiar enough with it to say for<BR>
>certain.  I do know it can work with HTML-formatted files, though.)<BR>
<BR>
Where can one dl a test version?<BR>
<BR>
My 2 pfennig,<BR>
Volker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:01:44 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
<BR>
At 05:14 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry, but the orbiter portion of the Mars Pathfinder mission shot new<BR>
>photos at higher resolution. The face really *was* just an artifact of<BR>
>image processing. There's nothing there but some hils and outcrops that<BR>
>were at the edge of resolution for the flights back in the 70s.<BR>
<BR>
But Traveller is a SciFi game written in the 70s right?<BR>
So the fact that the Face isnt wasnt known back then.<BR>
In Traveller the timeline is determined by the point the Authors started <BR>
their history, not by current facts. Therefore, the face can still be used <BR>
as evidence in Traveller as it exists in that Universe. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
All IMTU, of course.<BR>
<BR>
(Kind of reminds me of the Alternate Timeline in Perry Rhodan,<BR>
the beginning of which takes place in 1969)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:05:06 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: AECO<BR>
<BR>
At 05:53 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><< Loren, if you're reading this, would you please settle what AECO<BR>
>  stands for?  (African European Cooperative Organization?)<BR>
>   >><BR>
><BR>
>I don't remember off the top of my head. Most of my Traveller stuff is still<BR>
>in a rental locker 1500 miles away<BR>
<BR>
Aw you disappoint me ;-)<BR>
You mean you write Traveller without your books at hand?<BR>
Most of us dont even read new Traveller books without having the old books <BR>
nearby to check for inconsistencies ;-).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:08:32 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
<BR>
At 07:42 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:14:56 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?), and Pluto:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Sorry, but the orbiter portion of the Mars Pathfinder mission shot new<BR>
> > photos at higher resolution. The face really *was* just an artifact of<BR>
> > image processing. There's nothing there but some hils and outcrops that<BR>
> > were at the edge of resolution for the flights back in the 70s.<BR>
><BR>
>Sure, and Roswell was just a weather balloon :)<BR>
<BR>
Almost! you almost made me spill my soup! You very nasty, mean man!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2109<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2110</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2110<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
TL 25<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Friendly Fire? was 40mm to the back<BR>
OUCH!<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: The Face<BR>
Re: TL 25<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
Re: Roswell<BR>
Re: Frogs in Space<BR>
Re: "English"<BR>
Re: Rim Cover<BR>
RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mi ndset)<BR>
Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Drives (LKW4s thoughts)<BR>
RE: "English"<BR>
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:11:19 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
<BR>
At 09:07 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>Does anyone know of a TNE mailing list?<BR>
<BR>
Yup, its out there, i get its mail, but cant reply and it doesnt show <BR>
its adress either. Spooky, really...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:19:39 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Mailing List<BR>
<BR>
At 09:40 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Does anyone know of a TNE mailing list?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -Shocky<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm, I'm not sure as it's been a long time, but I believe *this* is the TNE<BR>
>mailing list.  IIRC, the Classic/MT Mail list (the name 'X-Boat' springs to<BR>
>mind), sort of faded into nothingness.  There used to be two mailing lists<BR>
>here, but I think the other is long gone (as in around '96).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Nope, the TML and XML rejoind on the announcement of T4. Then, the <BR>
TNE-RCES_List split off again. The TML is nominally for all kinds <BR>
Traveller, but some TNErs wanted their own list.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:10:09 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 08:30 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> > Bags:  Glisten/Aster (1739)<BR>
><BR>
>Sigh. Capital/Core.<BR>
<BR>
Aw you poor man...<BR>
<BR>
But AFAIK the Landgrab was just Spinward Marches, right. And i think Core <BR>
has been detailed quite a bit so far. (TD 9, M:0, ..)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:34:43 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
<BR>
At 15:01 17.03.00 +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>But Traveller is a SciFi game written in the 70s right?<BR>
>So the fact that the Face isnt wasnt known back then.<BR>
>In Traveller the timeline is determined by the point the Authors started <BR>
>their history, not by current facts. Therefore, the face can still be used <BR>
>as evidence in Traveller as it exists in that Universe. ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>All IMTU, of course.<BR>
><BR>
>(Kind of reminds me of the Alternate Timeline in Perry Rhodan,<BR>
>the beginning of which takes place in 1969)<BR>
<BR>
You mean 19971, when PR set his foot on Luna as first human being in history?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:44:24 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
>Well, to me it sounds reasonable that *nothing* will happen in such a <BR>
>case.<snip><BR>
><BR>
>Activating a jump drive within the jump space universe won't do anything<BR>
>because it's not built for that universe. The basic principles of physics<BR>
>seem to be like in n-space, but the higher physics are obviously different. <BR>
<BR>
ISTR mention (Ship Operator's Manual?) that experiments with two<BR>
jump drives on the same ship (jump, then activate the second drive<BR>
while in jump) resulted in the loss of the test vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Jump space has different physics, but one of the major purposes of<BR>
the jump bubble is to bring along a patch of normal space with you into<BR>
jump space. A jump drive inside that bubble has real space to latch<BR>
onto, it just has no reference data to know where to jump to...is it<BR>
going to penetrate higher levels of jump space, or just cancel itself out<BR>
and make the ship vanish in a shower of leptons?<BR>
<BR>
For all we know, the ships that tried this are just fine, only they're just<BR>
fine on the far side of the galactic core...or on the far side of a different<BR>
galactic core. Or they're in a different dimension alltogether. Or they'll<BR>
pop up right where they left from, a week subjective time later, only<BR>
10,000 years of our time later.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:53:06 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: TL 25<BR>
<BR>
john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>What tech do you have  on TL 25?<BR>
<BR>
Magic, pretty much. The ability to take what is imagined<BR>
and make it real. <BR>
<BR>
In many ways, the Ancients are an in-game excuse for<BR>
the referee to toss in "magic items" - artifacts that break<BR>
the rules in an interesting, plot-relevant way. A stargate.<BR>
A mind-control helmet. A killer robot. The artifact can be<BR>
a "push" (that is, a threat), a "pull" (an attractive reward<BR>
or goal), or simply an enigma. <BR>
<BR>
I think a really good example of an Ancient artifact was the <BR>
Tar Aym Krang (sp?) in Alan Dean Foster's book of the same<BR>
name. A device miles on a side, no one knew what it did, and<BR>
even after it did what it was supposed to do it was still an enigma.<BR>
In the process of the story, it was the goal, the challenge, a<BR>
long-term plot advancer (due to the changes it wrought on one<BR>
of the main characters), and an item of wonder.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:58:51 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
At 09:44 17.03.00 -0500, Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
>Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
>>Well, to me it sounds reasonable that *nothing* will happen in such a <BR>
>>case.<snip><BR>
>><BR>
>>Activating a jump drive within the jump space universe won't do anything<BR>
>>because it's not built for that universe. The basic principles of physics<BR>
>>seem to be like in n-space, but the higher physics are obviously different. <BR>
><BR>
>ISTR mention (Ship Operator's Manual?) that experiments with two<BR>
>jump drives on the same ship (jump, then activate the second drive<BR>
>while in jump) resulted in the loss of the test vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Well, one could explain this with the factthat the energy of all that H2<BR>
must go somewhere... explosively if necessary.<BR>
<BR>
>Jump space has different physics, but one of the major purposes of<BR>
>the jump bubble is to bring along a patch of normal space with you into<BR>
>jump space. A jump drive inside that bubble has real space to latch<BR>
>onto, it just has no reference data to know where to jump to...is it<BR>
>going to penetrate higher levels of jump space, or just cancel itself out<BR>
>and make the ship vanish in a shower of leptons?<BR>
<BR>
Okay, this is new for me. Its own bubble of n-space. Hm. I like that. What<BR>
about the following: The twin jump drive ship jumps, but has aproblem:<BR>
Within its jump bubble (which would be some kind of pocket universe),the<BR>
ship itself is the largest mass. Thus, its gravitiy interferes with the<BR>
jump drive, making the second jump effectively a jump with in the one<BR>
diameter limit... This would imply that "large mass" is always relative to<BR>
the size of the universe...<BR>
<BR>
>For all we know, the ships that tried this are just fine, only they're just<BR>
>fine on the far side of the galactic core...or on the far side of a different<BR>
>galactic core. Or they're in a different dimension alltogether. Or they'll<BR>
>pop up right where they left from, a week subjective time later, only<BR>
>10,000 years of our time later.<BR>
<BR>
This could be could for a "Traveller: Voyager" kind of campaign, but<BR>
personally I prefer the utter destruction of the ship.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:03:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Dixon" <cdixon@airfoiltech.com><BR>
Subject: Friendly Fire? was 40mm to the back<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:44:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: 40mm to the back (was Re: 20mm to the head)<BR>
<BR>
>When I was at LOGEX at Ft. Pickett back in 1990, I saw a flak vest<BR>
which had<BR>
>been hit (in the back) by a 40mm AP round during the U.S. invasion of<BR>
>Panama. It must have been a glancing blow, for the round didn't<BR>
penetrate<BR>
>the kevlar. It did tear a big chunk away, however. One about the size<BR>
of<BR>
>your hand. The wearer of the vest received some broken ribs and serious<BR>
<BR>
>bruises, but was otherwise OK.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC a 40MM has to spin a preset number of times before it becomes<BR>
active.<BR>
<BR>
The fact that the wearer of said vest is still alive sounds to me like<BR>
he took a hit from close range, so close that the round did not arm<BR>
properly (or was a dud and the guy is one luck SOB).<BR>
<BR>
The fact that he was hit in the back from close range sounds to me like<BR>
friendly fire. (which really isn't so friendly if you think about it).<BR>
<BR>
- -Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:06:02 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: OUCH!<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-17 00:45:11 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< My dad is a retired marine E-8 who after Korean in 1950 and two tours in<BR>
 Viet Nam got out after his 20 in 1968.  Some where between 65' and 68' I<BR>
 remember him showing me an article showing a fellow who had an grenade from<BR>
 an  M-79 lodged in his abdomen. Apparently it hadn't rotated a sufficient<BR>
 enough number of revolutions to arm.  X-ray pictures told the tale.   They<BR>
 sand bagged the OR and a surgeon and an EOD type took it out.<BR>
 <BR>
 Patient, doctor and EOD type all survived the experience.<BR>
 <BR>
 Dan >><BR>
<BR>
I thik I've seen that same photo, but I would have bet money it was a mortar <BR>
round, not a forty mike mike. IIRC, the patient was a Vietnamese who had been <BR>
riding in an APC and the round dropped on him from above (mortar rounds -- <BR>
they do that, y'know) penetrated the skin and burrowed under the skin until <BR>
it was stopped by the pelvis, which it fractured. Round didn't detonate in <BR>
the patient, but it was surgically removed and touched off by an EOD team <BR>
afterwards. Maybe it happened with a 40mm grenade too . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:12:18 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Catching up on the Ancients discussion....<BR>
<BR>
Hans Rancke wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've always assumed that he cloned himself, but I just checked "Secrets of<BR>
> the Ancients" and it just says that he had (exactly) 20 children and that<BR>
> each of them have about 20 each. This must be regarded as an unsolved<BR>
> mystery. If he was getting them the oldfashioned way, why 20 instead of<BR>
> 18 or 24? If he was cloning, why stop after 20 and let his children have<BR>
> the rest; why not just have 400 clones himself and be done with it?<BR>
<BR>
One interesting data point: AM5 notes that Grandfather activated his caste<BR>
*himself*, and was a peculiar leader/sport/technician/drone hybrid -- it's<BR>
suggested that he was only able to do this successfully due to his extreme<BR>
intelligence.  That's two alpha male castes, one beta male caste, and the<BR>
female caste....<BR>
<BR>
AM5 also suggests that, logically, it's the Zhodani who have the best<BR>
understanding of the Droyne / Chirper / Ancients connection.  It states<BR>
that the historical outline of pre-Ancient history comes from digs at the<BR>
fairly intact Viepchakl sites in the Zhodane system.  This is information<BR>
the Imperium might not be fully aware of.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:36:09 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Face<BR>
<BR>
Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> > << c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?) >><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Speaking of the face, does anybody know where I can find the photos that JPL<BR>
> > released showing Kermit the Frog in a lava flow?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > LKW<BR>
> <BR>
> Didn't know JPL were into making muppet-snuff.<BR>
<BR>
Did JPL have to pay licensing fees?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:33:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TL 25<BR>
<BR>
- --- Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I think a really good example of an Ancient artifact<BR>
> was the <BR>
> Tar Aym Krang (sp?) in Alan Dean Foster's book of<BR>
> the same<BR>
> name. A device miles on a side, no one knew what it<BR>
> did, and<BR>
> even after it did what it was supposed to do it was<BR>
> still an enigma.<BR>
> In the process of the story, it was the goal, the<BR>
> challenge, a<BR>
> long-term plot advancer (due to the changes it<BR>
> wrought on one<BR>
> of the main characters), and an item of wonder.<BR>
<BR>
I actually used the Krang in an TNE adventure<BR>
(replacing the AAnn with K'kree, and of course<BR>
destroying the thing at the end)<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:41:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matt Bond <MB<BR>
<BR>
> As you appear to believe yourself my intellectual<BR>
> superior,<BR>
<BR>
The only ones claiming to be superior on this list are<BR>
some silly people who simply confuse different<BR>
opinions with arrogance,after trying to transform a<BR>
debate about  <BR>
 game design in a spelling contest,proving that<BR>
they're wrong.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> As for the 'boy' crack, I'm 32, 6'2", 300lb, <BR>
> You are...?<BR>
<BR>
...not remotly as childish as you,as it seems.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:42:00 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
Shocky writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>What I am wondering is; <BR>
>What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined together then<BR>
>launched into jump space using one ship's jump drive, then in the jump,<BR>
>activating the other ship's jump drive ....<BR>
<BR>
	IMTU, the jump drive does all its work at the beginning of the jump,<BR>
	so you could try this simply by jumping and then activating the<BR>
	jump drive again once in jump space.<BR>
<BR>
>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
<BR>
	IMTU, nothing at all.  As someone else posted, the jump drive is<BR>
	designed to push a ship out of n-space and has no effect in jump<BR>
	space.<BR>
<BR>
>Any opinions are welcome ;)<BR>
<BR>
	I think that orange is an awful colour for a car.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:49:38 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'll let Herb the mutant potted plant answer that one.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Thanks Doug! Y'see meat-things, the Wardn was the badly designed<BR>
> > generation ship in TSR's Metamorphosis Alpha game. Set after a mysterious<BR>
> > radiation accident has decimated the crew and colonists, the characters<BR>
> > wander about a dungeon, err, a ship filled with improbable<BR>
> > mutants like me.<BR>
> > Now submit to my will, meat beings! Your reign of terror is over!! Ooops,<BR>
> > sorry, that's the other brain, Daisy, speaking. She has issues."<BR>
> <BR>
> Speaking of brains, a player in that game once got the mutation "extra<BR>
> brain"<BR>
> or something like that, and so proceeeded to use it as a weapon.<BR>
> <BR>
> When ever he ran into opponents, he'd yell "I throw my extra brain at them!"<BR>
<BR>
Out that way, he'd probably never heard the slogan of the United Negro<BR>
College Fund:<BR>
<BR>
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:43:24 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Roswell<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-17 04:19:59 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 Sure, and Roswell was just a weather balloon :)<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
That's what Elvis told me last week. He asked JFK to be sure, when they were <BR>
visiting SJ Games/Illuminati World HQ.<BR>
<BR>
****<BR>
<BR>
Funny bit of election news: George W Bush's website uses a local Austin <BR>
TX-based, award-winning ISP called IO -- which stands for Illuminati Online, <BR>
and is partly owned by Steve Jackson. Nobody's made anything of this yet, but <BR>
I am waiting for the extreme fringe loonie groups to discover this little <BR>
factoid . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:43:27 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Frogs in Space<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-17 04:19:59 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
 > << c) The Ancients sites on Venus, Mars (remember the face?) >><BR>
 > <BR>
 > Speaking of the face, does anybody know where I can find the photos that <BR>
JPL <BR>
 > released showing Kermit the Frog in a lava flow? <BR>
 > <BR>
 > LKW<BR>
 <BR>
 Didn't know JPL were into making muppet-snuff.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
This was a photo from the same mission that produced the "face" and showed a <BR>
lava flow that was a profile of Kermit the Frog -- down to a crater for the <BR>
right eye. JPL released it in response to the "Face on Mars" books, claiming <BR>
that any theory about the face and the other alleged formation on the planet <BR>
should be required to account for Kermie as well. Either the EBAs are <BR>
stranger than we think, or the face/other junk/Kermie is a trick of the <BR>
light. In the same series of photos is a crater with two smaller craters and <BR>
a ridge/shadow/something inside that forms an almost perfect Smiley Face. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, my question stands -- anyone know where I can get a copy of <BR>
either/both of these photos? Somebody know somebody at JPL?<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:43:28 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: "English"<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-17 09:31:44 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
 > Well over here it's AluminIUM, but otherwise, yes, it is LanthanUM.<BR>
 <BR>
 Differences between British and American English. I would claim that in<BR>
 British English, it is spelled "Lanthanium."<BR>
 <BR>
 Color, colour, armor, armour.  >><BR>
<BR>
Tomaytoe, Tomahto, Yamayto, Yamato . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:43:25 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Rim Cover<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-17 04:19:59 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< >> Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual Europe or US, <BR>
 >> and/or show it from the perspective of a Earth eclipse of the moon so <BR>
 >> you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
 <BR>
 >That'd have to be an eclipse of the *Sun* by the earth. <BR>
 <BR>
 >Also, unless Earth has gotten *remarkably* drier, the cloud cover will<BR>
 >mask most details.<BR>
 <BR>
 Wasn't there massive flooding and change of coastline mentioned somewhere?<BR>
 <BR>
 Eris >><BR>
<BR>
Jesse: In the interests of simplicity and speed, I suggest you use a public <BR>
domain photo of the Earth as reference, preferably one with a pronounced "big <BR>
blue marble" cloud effect. Concentrate on the cool stuff in orbit. <BR>
<BR>
Loren (no longer the SJ Games Art Director, but still involved in the <BR>
process) Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:38:37 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mi ndset)<BR>
<BR>
>British for Lanthanum *is* Lanthanum.<BR>
>Its only Aluminum (A-loom-in-um) that becomes Aluminium<BR>
>(Al-you-min-ee-um)<BR>
<BR>
...which is the correct way of spelling it ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Lanthan(um):<BR>
<BR>
lanthanein (grk.): to be hidden (engl.: lanthanum, ger.: Lanthan)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:30:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 20mm to the head<BR>
<BR>
At 08:29 PM 3/16/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-16 19:49:03 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
><< >I remember hearing of a character surviving a 20mm hit to the head as<BR>
><< >well in TNE.<BR>
> <BR>
> Maybe it just flicked past and took his ear off... >><BR>
><BR>
>There was an infantryman in WWII who was grazed by an 88 round and lived to <BR>
>tell about it.<BR>
<BR>
I keep a file of weird wounding incidents, just to point out how difficult<BR>
it is to model all the bizarre things that can happen in combat.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:28:35<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
At 11:56 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>The seventh inning stretch exists for the baseball grognards <BR>
>>who need time to update their stats, like how Barry Bonds bats <BR>
>>on days when the Dow Jones falls more than 20 points, and how <BR>
>>he fares against left-handed red heads.<BR>
><BR>
>Thank God for the Palm Pilot, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Heathen! You keep stats in the time honored fashion, in the margins of the<BR>
scorecard!<BR>
<BR>
Honestly, I remember learning to keep score from my grandfather at Brewer's<BR>
games. When I got back into baseball recently, I was amazed to find how<BR>
much I remembered.<BR>
<BR>
Spirit of 86, Buckner will be Avenged!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:43:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
At 06:59 PM 3/16/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>If the material in my ARTS 101 class can be believed, the animals<BR>
>depicted in Paleolithic cave paintings generally were _not_ the animals<BR>
>that the painters hunted.  What this could mean, I leave as an exercise<BR>
>for the student.<BR>
<BR>
At CONTACT this year I heard one person make the point that the cave<BR>
paintings could have been comedies, showing the most inept hunters possible.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:49:11<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drives (LKW4s thoughts)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:19 PM 3/17/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>No it's the Vilani. They know we have moved into the computer age, so<BR>
>they replace the face we once saw with a smily face instead.<BR>
<BR>
You want a smiley face? You have a lot of Galle!<BR>
<BR>
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap990315.html<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:50:45 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: "English"<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com [mailto:GDWGAMES@aol.com]<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Color, colour, armor, armour.  >><BR>
> <BR>
> Tomaytoe, Tomahto, Yamayto, Yamato . . .<BR>
<BR>
Ahh, let's call the whole thing off.<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:05:04 +0100<BR>
From: Holger Kadlez <paradin@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
I am _sooo_ glad, I just put my coffee away ....<BR>
With that kind of bad luck of your it was only a <BR>
virtuall keybord kill<BR>
                      ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Paradin<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE schrieb:<BR>
> <BR>
> "James W. Lindsay" wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:08:02 +0000, Paul Campbell wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> <<snips gruesome discussion of on-planet Jump drive activation>><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > And does anyone standing too close to the ship get cooked when the lanthanum<BR>
> > > grid discharges?  Or will they be very briefly exposed to jump space as the<BR>
> > > ship (tries to) tumble.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Do we have molten edges where the field cut in.  Sliced struts etc.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Must be spectacular to watch - from a distance of course.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You'd think it would be an auto-fail if the computer doesn't compensate for<BR>
> > the amount of asphalt (and possibly even atmosphere) that they are going to<BR>
> > take with them :)<BR>
> <BR>
> <tongue-in-cheek><BR>
> <BR>
> As a safety measure, AuricTech Shipyards provides clear warnings against<BR>
> engaging Jump drive while on a planetary surface on the README.AWP files<BR>
> that accompany each AuricTech ship.  ("What?  Your late spouse's<BR>
> computers couldn't read AuricTech Word Processing [AWP] files in<BR>
> 6.023E23 format?  It's not _our_ fault that the decedent chose not to<BR>
> budget the extra MCr 23.17 OEM licensing fee for the AuricTech<BR>
> BridgeSuite 6.023E23 upgrade, as offered on page 2317 of the purchase<BR>
> contract.  See, here are the initials declining the upgrade from<BR>
> BridgeSuite 6.02299E23.  After all, we can't be expected to provide<BR>
> perpetual support for obsolete applications software.")<BR>
> <BR>
> </tongue-in-cheek><BR>
> <BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:15:36 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
As in Milwaukee Brewers?  You left us cheeseheads to live with 49ers!?<BR>
Sacrilege!  no, that's not right.  Blasphemy!  no, no, not that either.  Oh<BR>
hell, go with the original<BR>
<BR>
Heretic!  :)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 11:56 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Thank God for the Palm Pilot, eh?<BR>
><BR>
>Heathen! You keep stats in the time honored fashion, in the margins of the<BR>
>scorecard!<BR>
><BR>
>Honestly, I remember learning to keep score from my grandfather at Brewer's<BR>
>games. When I got back into baseball recently, I was amazed to find how<BR>
>much I remembered.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2110<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2111</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2111<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)<BR>
RE: Ancients<BR>
RE: Frogs in Space<BR>
RE: Rim Cover<BR>
RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
RE: Frogs in Space<BR>
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: 307 Ale<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: TL25  (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Roswell<BR>
Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:09:34 -0600<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconn@i1.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps no Korbel but Krug (non-vintage) will do quite nicely.<BR>
Thank you ery much.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Eric Henry <ehenry@newberlin.org><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:41 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Alas, are there no Korbel afficianados?<BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
> Subject: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Actually, Jackson's tasting notes, IIRC, say "hint of diesel fuel."<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Which is not a bad thing, IMO. :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Anyway, anyone who's going to limit themselves to one SMS on the basis<BR>
> >that it's "the finest" is missing out (again, this is IMO).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Some days you want to feel like you're drinking diesel fuel. Some<BR>
> >days you want to suck down a little brine, so you reach for the<BR>
> >Talisker.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Then there's the days when you want people to ask "what in Ghod's<BR>
> >name is that vile black fluid?" For this reason, and this reason<BR>
> >only, except for the occasional arcane ritual requiring vile black<BR>
> >fluid, we keep a bottle of Loch Dhu in the house.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:10:05 -0800<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, March 16, 2000 4:32 PM<BR>
Matthew Bond said,<BR>
<BR>
>  From AM5 p6<BR>
><BR>
> "The Modern Period<BR>
><BR>
> With the end of the Final War, the Ancients ceased to exist.<BR>
> Until recently<BR>
> (the last 300 years), the fact that the Droyne were the Ancients was<BR>
> unknown.<BR>
<BR>
That is what I sometimes hate about excerpts from Universe articles and<BR>
such.  I always wonder when this paper was supposed to be written.  Is<BR>
this a historian in 1400 writing about the "Modern Period" putting the<BR>
date of reference around 1100 or was the article supposed to be from<BR>
around the time of the OTU at that time making the reference date 300<BR>
years prior to that?<BR>
<BR>
I love the way this ambiguity lets you adjust these things in your TU ,<BR>
but part of me is always driven nuts trying to figure out what the OTU<BR>
date should be.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
======<BR>
"The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same<BR>
level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:21:04 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Frogs in Space<BR>
<BR>
 -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com [mailto:GDWGAMES@aol.com]<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Anyway, my question stands -- anyone know where I can get a copy of <BR>
> either/both of these photos? Somebody know somebody at JPL?<BR>
<BR>
Happy Face crater:<BR>
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/tiff/PIA02325.tif<BR>
<BR>
The Valentine's Heart is at:<BR>
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/tiff/PIA02361.tif<BR>
<BR>
Mars Global Surveyor pics of the 'face' can be found at<BR>
http://barsoom.msss.com/mars_images/moc/MENUS/cydonia_list.html<BR>
<BR>
Still looking for the Kermit pic.<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:23:12 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Rim Cover<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking that as well, mainly because the detail level would be so<BR>
high on the planet's surface.  Otherwise I have to find or buy an Earth<BR>
texture that's a higher resolution than have depending on the angle I use.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 7:43 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Rim Cover<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In a message dated 00-03-17 04:19:59 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
> << >> Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual<BR>
> Europe or US,<BR>
>  >> and/or show it from the perspective of a Earth eclipse of the moon so<BR>
>  >> you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
><BR>
>  >That'd have to be an eclipse of the *Sun* by the earth.<BR>
><BR>
>  >Also, unless Earth has gotten *remarkably* drier, the cloud cover will<BR>
>  >mask most details.<BR>
><BR>
>  Wasn't there massive flooding and change of coastline mentioned<BR>
> somewhere?<BR>
><BR>
>  Eris >><BR>
><BR>
> Jesse: In the interests of simplicity and speed, I suggest you<BR>
> use a public<BR>
> domain photo of the Earth as reference, preferably one with a<BR>
> pronounced "big<BR>
> blue marble" cloud effect. Concentrate on the cool stuff in orbit.<BR>
><BR>
> Loren (no longer the SJ Games Art Director, but still involved in the<BR>
> process) Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:23:16 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
I have "Rats & Cats", I just forgot to check the map >:\<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the reminder!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Holger<BR>
> Kadlez<BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 6:16 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Ewan Quibell schrieb:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Doesn't Cats and Rats have a map of Terra on the inside back cover with<BR>
> > the downports shown ?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I don't have it here to check on but I'm almost sure it's there.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes, it has. And there are some differences between our days map <BR>
> and this one.<BR>
> <BR>
> Anybody wants me to scan it ?<BR>
> <BR>
> Have a nice weekend,<BR>
> 	Paradin<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Anyway hope this helps<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Ewan<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > <<chuckle>>  I hoping you weren't an anti-Ditzie type when <BR>
> the Collection<BR>
> > > arrived without a note ;)<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > My good friend Tim has the Dragon CD, so I've got that <BR>
> covered, but I don't<BR>
> > > have the TD#13.  Sounds like there's not a WHOLE lot there, <BR>
> but maybe some<BR>
> > > interesting info for the Earth's texture map.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Thanks!<BR>
> > > Jesse<BR>
> > <BR>
> > --<BR>
> > <BR>
> >    Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
> >    Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
> >    Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
> >    University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
> >                                       Rode the six hundred.<BR>
> >    E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
> > <BR>
> >    #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
> > <BR>
> >    My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
> > <BR>
> >    University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:36:31 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Frogs in Space<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com [mailto:GDWGAMES@aol.com]<BR>
> <BR>
> This was a photo from the same mission that produced the <BR>
> "face" and showed a <BR>
> lava flow that was a profile of Kermit the Frog -- down to a <BR>
> crater for the <BR>
> right eye.<BR>
<BR>
Kermit the frog on mars:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.itv.se/boreale/mars.htm<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:37:37 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> How can any spellchecker generate words that don't exist ?<BR>
> (Such as "Thu" "wsw" "thrum" & "yuan" )<BR>
<BR>
Thu - Abbreviation for "Thursday"<BR>
wsw - West-southwest<BR>
thrum - To play or pluck a stringed instrument idly<BR>
yuan - The unit of currency in China and Taiwan<BR>
<BR>
    You're right, all bogus...  ;-)<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:11:59<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
At 03:20 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Yes they do.  They buy the designer's philosophy on<BR>
>> design, and the<BR>
>> publishers philosophy on layout and appearance.<BR>
><BR>
>And I always thought that people are buying games to<BR>
>have fun there:Now I have to realize these are the<BR>
>21TH century versions of greek philosophers schools.<BR>
<BR>
*sigh*.  Listen closely.  I am a game designer. My first release just came<BR>
out. While my intention was to produce a product that was fun to play, I<BR>
had to define *how* that game would work, and what mechanisms would be used.<BR>
<BR>
You seem to have a singulary narrow mind. Philosophy can mean much more<BR>
than Satre pondering his existense.  Would you prefer if I used "paradigm"?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:08:36<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
At 11:46 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Perhaps.But The Droyne are more like the US prez in<BR>
>this analogy,or not?And he has resources that far<BR>
>greater than a simple navy man.Don't mix apples with<BR>
>peaches.<BR>
<BR>
OK, we have to separate "Droyne" from "Ancients" in this argument.<BR>
<BR>
The Ancients were the 400-odd super intelligent, immortal, uberbeings that<BR>
ran around creating TL 35 toys. <BR>
<BR>
The Droyne were the same critters we see today, not overly ambitious,<BR>
content to stay on their worlds. In the 3I, most Droyne worlds don't go<BR>
over TL9 (Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
The actions of the Yaskodray and the Drayskin show that the Droyne weren't<BR>
the best assistants for the works. They take h.erectus all over the area,<BR>
gene modify wolves into Vargr, and eventually settle on sophisticated robots.<BR>
<BR>
A good read to get the feel for what Grandfather might have been like is<BR>
Larry Niven's "Protector". Brennan is dedicated to protecting humanity, but<BR>
has no problem using humans as tools. He's that far above them.<BR>
<BR>
Yaskodray is essentially a God. Between his innate powers and his tech,<BR>
reality is his to warp. At that level, it's ridiculous to assume that *any*<BR>
servitor race would be identifiable as the "masters."<BR>
<BR>
>> We had no idea about ancient Egypt until the Rosetta<BR>
>> stone was found. None.<BR>
<BR>
> That's simply untrue.We knew a lot.Just look into the<BR>
>bible for info.And Greeks and Romans left even more.<BR>
<BR>
The bible, on the subject of serious Egyptology, is trash. No dates, full<BR>
of myths and different eras compressed together into one event. It was all<BR>
written by the descendants of the people who fled slavery in Egypt!. <BR>
<BR>
The Greeks did write about Egypt, but very little of what they wrote turned<BR>
out to be correct. It was once again, mostly traveller's tales given the<BR>
weight of fact.<BR>
<BR>
By the time the Romans were involved, Egyptian culture was dead, and it was<BR>
basically a Greek state. It's doubtful that the contemporaries of Cleopatra<BR>
could read the hieroglyphics in the pyramid.<BR>
<BR>
The Rosetta stone let us read the primary sources. The words of the actual<BR>
Egyptians of the Old and Middle Kingdoms.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:16:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 307 Ale<BR>
<BR>
At 04:09 PM 12/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>where do you think Scouts Brew comes from!<BR>
<BR>
BTW, 307 Ale is a song by Tom Smith..<BR>
<BR>
http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/307ale.htm<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:19:26<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 03:10 PM 3/17/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>At 08:30 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>> > Bags:  Glisten/Aster (1739)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Sigh. Capital/Core.<BR>
<BR>
>But AFAIK the Landgrab was just Spinward Marches, right. And i think Core <BR>
>has been detailed quite a bit so far. (TD 9, M:0, ..)<BR>
<BR>
Hey, if he wants to do it.. <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:26:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TL25  (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:47 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>What tech do you have  on TL 25?<BR>
<BR>
Magic. At this point, from our view, Clarke's Law has come to fruition.<BR>
<BR>
According to the MT Referee's Companion, pgs 28-29, at TL 21 (the highest<BR>
listed) you get things like the ability to move entire worlds through jump<BR>
space, instantaneous transit through portals (walk from Efate to Regina in<BR>
three easy steps!), Ringworlds at TL 25...  as I said, magic.<BR>
<BR>
What makes it magic is that you'd be unable to even figure out that it was<BR>
technology. My t-shirt projects a personal force field, while my belt<BR>
buckle is a super-computer that guides the personal matter transfer device<BR>
in the heels of my boots.  All run by my nano-tech enhanced psionic links.<BR>
You shoot at me, the bullet bounces. I vanish, show up behind you, and<BR>
point my ring at you... zot.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:30:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
At 01:40 AM 3/17/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ob Trav: are there reinactors/living historians in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
I would imagine so. Imagine the joys of Interstellar War reinactors living<BR>
in solomani space?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:32:24<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 02:55 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>And since you are resorting to silly comparisons,it is<BR>
>clear that my statement is right.<BR>
<BR>
No, we are just tired of having to translate your gibberish into English.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:39:24<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 03:51 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well,since my statement (containing "I") cannot be<BR>
>applied to other  people,your reply is ,as usually,<BR>
>ignoring logic for the sake of cheap remarks.<BR>
>Yes,it's nice when you show your true (rather bland) colors,boy.<BR>
<BR>
John, since you seem to have the clues God gave a Kamikaze pilot, let me<BR>
explain something to you.<BR>
<BR>
"Boy", when used as you are using it, is extremely derogatory to certain<BR>
elements of the population. It's simply insulting to most of us, but for<BR>
some people it can cause violent reactions.<BR>
<BR>
Now, several people have stated that your poor grammar and spelling pisses<BR>
them off. So either clean up your typing, or go somewhere else and bother<BR>
people who are your equals. I suggest alt.flame.<BR>
<BR>
Further personal insults of this nature will results in complaints to ISPs.<BR>
We are all mature adults here, and capable of both self-editing, and of<BR>
restraining our urges to make cheap shots.<BR>
<BR>
Just a quick note: I found three errors looking over this note, and spell<BR>
check found a few more. It took thirty seconds to correct them.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:55:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 07:41 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The only ones claiming to be superior on this list are<BR>
>some silly people who simply confuse different<BR>
>opinions with arrogance,after trying to transform a<BR>
>debate about  <BR>
> game design in a spelling contest,proving that<BR>
>they're wrong.<BR>
<BR>
1. You are the one continually bringing up superiority. You take every<BR>
dissenting opinion, no matter how it is phrased, as a personal attack. You<BR>
also seem to feel that you have some vantage point that we don't have.<BR>
Since this list includes several Traveller writers, past and present, and<BR>
Loren Wiseman as regular readers and contributors, I have to wonder were<BR>
you get off with this.<BR>
<BR>
2. Your grammar and spelling are so bad as to render your posts unreadable<BR>
gibberish. We use English here, with American style usage as the default.<BR>
Failure to follow that standard for communication results in you being seen<BR>
as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
<BR>
3. The "debate" as you call it, has been nothing but you making bizarre<BR>
claims about why *you* feel that Traveller has failed. When list members<BR>
point out factual errors or other points of view, you insult them. That, my<BR>
dear Mr. Hamilton, is not a debate. It's a preparation for a bar brawl.<BR>
<BR>
4. If you had been reading this list for a year, you would see that one of<BR>
the most common acronyms used here is "IMTU", or "In My Traveller<BR>
Universe." We love diversity, and recognize that most people tweak the 3I<BR>
setting to suit their own needs. For example, in the official setting, the<BR>
Sword Worlds' activities in the Fifth Frontier War were fairly limited.<BR>
IMTU, the Swordies made a serious grab for Lunion with the assistance of<BR>
extensive covert ops.<BR>
<BR>
Revealing this fact will not result in Loren and Marc sending the Vargr Bat<BR>
Squad to my house to confiscate all my materials. It's simply how I run my<BR>
game.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:57:36<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Roswell<BR>
<BR>
At 10:43 AM 3/17/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Funny bit of election news: George W Bush's website uses a local Austin <BR>
>TX-based, award-winning ISP called IO -- which stands for Illuminati Online, <BR>
>and is partly owned by Steve Jackson. Nobody's made anything of this yet,<BR>
>but I am waiting for the extreme fringe loonie groups to discover this <BR>
>little factoid . . .<BR>
<BR>
You mean somebody like me?<BR>
<BR>
back in a minute, of to drop bombs in alt.conspiracy...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:59:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
At 10:15 AM 3/17/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>As in Milwaukee Brewers?  You left us cheeseheads to live with 49ers!?<BR>
>Sacrilege!  no, that's not right.  Blasphemy!  no, no, not that either.  Oh<BR>
>hell, go with the original<BR>
<BR>
No, Grandparents lived in Wawatosa, I'm a native SFer.<BR>
<BR>
Gold or Cheese, which would *you* rather have?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:05:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Now, several people have stated that your poor<BR>
> grammar and spelling pisses<BR>
> them off.<BR>
<BR>
Well,there MUST be a "correct spelling mailing list"<BR>
somewhere.Perhaps they should focus their attention to<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
>  We are all mature adults here<BR>
<BR>
I hope we're not!It would be a sad thing if only over<BR>
18 years old  are interested in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
 and of<BR>
> restraining our urges to make cheap shots.<BR>
<BR>
I'm just react to some cheap shots..(Like the<BR>
overblown spelling thing).But I admit your (sic)<BR>
right:I end the spelling/namecalling threat.It's been<BR>
enough.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Just a quick note: I found three errors looking over<BR>
> this note, and spell<BR>
> check found a few more. It took thirty seconds to<BR>
> correct them.<BR>
<BR>
So I don't spellcheck:So what?<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:07:01 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but Eris...you've hit the point where the mental and chronologial<BR>
are accelerating in opposite directions ;-P<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 03/16/00 at 11:53 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard says:<BR>
> <BR>
> ><< Old? You? Hah!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I turned 45 last month... >><BR>
> <BR>
> >Still got ya beat.<BR>
> <BR>
> Same here...chronologically. Mentally, maybe not. <g><BR>
> <BR>
> Eris,<BR>
>     old coot!<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce "Not quite as old a coot" Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:09:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Dixon" <cdixon@airfoiltech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
> I think that it was Keith Nolan Ryan who recounts that during the<BR>
battle for<BR>
> Hue, Vietnam, a marine survived a direct hit to the chest with an RPG.<BR>
I<BR>
> don't remember why the round failed to explode: maybe the round needed<BR>
<BR>
> something a bit more substantial than a marine in body armor to<BR>
trigger; or<BR>
> the piezeo-electric charge shorted on a metal screen or chain link<BR>
fence<BR>
> before striking the marine.<BR>
<BR>
I just finished reading Blackhawk Down, an outstanding true story of of<BR>
the bloody firefight in Mogadishu Somalia with Delta Force and US Army<BR>
Rangers vs. basically the entire city of Mogadishu.<BR>
<BR>
One of the lads took an RPG hit.  The round went right through his vest<BR>
and lodged unexploded in his chest.  Needless to say, he didn't make<BR>
it.  IIRC Vietnam era flack vests had ceramic plates so maybe the above<BR>
referenced jarhead lucked out.<BR>
<BR>
The new Kevlar vests the Rangers had in Somalia also had plates.  Maybe<BR>
the round missed the plate and went right through the Kevlar fabric.<BR>
<BR>
OBTrav:  This is a good instance of what High-Tech vs. Low Tech warfare<BR>
can turn into.  100 Rangers and Delta "operators" were able to hold out<BR>
against thousands of Somalis.  They took one hell of a beating doing it<BR>
though. Something on the order of 70 wounded and 18 dead.<BR>
<BR>
- -Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:18:55 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
Not far from me<BR>
<BR>
tough question, depends on a) how hungry am i and b) do local ( if any )<BR>
shops accept gold.  You'd think they would but then again...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>No, Grandparents lived in Wawatosa, I'm a native SFer.<BR>
><BR>
>Gold or Cheese, which would *you* rather have?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:16:14 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
> OK, we have to separate "Droyne" from "Ancients" in this argument.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Ancients were the 400-odd super intelligent, immortal, uberbeings that<BR>
> ran around creating TL 35 toys.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Droyne were the same critters we see today, not overly ambitious,<BR>
> content to stay on their worlds. In the 3I, most Droyne worlds don't go<BR>
> over TL9 (Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
You know...I've been thinking about that lately, what with the focus on<BR>
the Ancients and all.<BR>
<BR>
I'll bet the Droyne whoe exist today were NOT representative of the<BR>
Droyne then, they're just representative of the Droyne that _survived_<BR>
by hunkering down and not looking like a high tech threat.<BR>
<BR>
That could fix you to a pastoral lifestyle pretty hard and fast.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2111<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2112</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/17/00 10:07:36 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2112<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again<BR>
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim<BR>
Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
Targeting Deep Meson Sites (was: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship)<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
Re: OUCH!<BR>
Re: Targeting Deep Meson Sites (was: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:15:21 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > (Actually, there's a product out called GM's Notebook which could<BR>
> > probably<BR>
> >be used in just about this way, but I'm not familiar enough with it to say for<BR>
> >certain.  I do know it can work with HTML-formatted files, though.)<BR>
><BR>
> Where can one dl a test version?<BR>
<BR>
 http://www.crosswinds.net/~mythosa/Download/GMNotebook.zip<BR>
<BR>
    The home page for the above is<BR>
<BR>
 http://www.crosswinds.net/~mythosa/Utils.html<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:16:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> At 11:46 AM 3/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Perhaps.But The Droyne are more like the US prez in<BR>
> >this analogy,or not?And he has resources that far<BR>
> >greater than a simple navy man.Don't mix apples<BR>
> with<BR>
> >peaches.<BR>
> <BR>
> OK, we have to separate "Droyne" from "Ancients" in<BR>
> this argument.<BR>
<BR>
I was referring to the Ancients;during the A.<BR>
period,they were the  same(more or less,since the<BR>
Droyne were somewhat as subjects)<BR>
<BR>
> The Ancients were the 400-odd super intelligent,<BR>
> immortal, uberbeings that<BR>
> ran around creating TL 35 toys. <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
> The bible, on the subject of serious Egyptology, is<BR>
> trash. No dates, full<BR>
> of myths and different eras compressed together into<BR>
> one event. It was all<BR>
> written by the descendants of the people who fled<BR>
> slavery in Egypt!. <BR>
> <BR>
> The Greeks did write about Egypt, but very little of<BR>
> what they wrote turned<BR>
> out to be correct. It was once again, mostly<BR>
> traveller's tales given the<BR>
> weight of fact.<BR>
> <BR>
> By the time the Romans were involved, Egyptian<BR>
> culture was dead, and it was<BR>
> basically a Greek state. It's doubtful that the<BR>
> contemporaries of Cleopatra<BR>
> could read the hieroglyphics in the pyramid.<BR>
<BR>
Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is from the<BR>
Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features a<BR>
(rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but that was<BR>
uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried to<BR>
revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
withit.It survived till it was replaced with christianity.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:23:30 -0500<BR>
From: Peter Miller <thegolem@mindless.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >  We are all mature adults here<BR>
><BR>
>I hope we're not!It would be a sad thing if only over<BR>
>18 years old  are interested in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I think Doug meant adults in the mental sense of the word; not the legal one.<BR>
<BR>
>So I don't spellcheck:So what?<BR>
<BR>
I think the problem is that posts that are poorly formatted and\or spelled <BR>
tend to make the reader focus less on the content and more on the lack of <BR>
style.  I try not to do this myself, but, I must admit its a difficult <BR>
task.  Its unfortunate, but when posting in a public forum of anyone sort <BR>
this is the price we pay.<BR>
<BR>
Peter Miller<BR>
__________________________Peter J. Miller<BR>
thegolem@mindless.com        ICQ #5294589<BR>
<BR>
"Loneliness is not a phase..."<BR>
          - 'Angry Chair', Alice in Chains<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:25:04 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the same again<BR>
<BR>
At 08:13 PM 3/15/00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Cyberpunk 2020:even more so<BR>
><BR>
>But no rules for even how much modifying a vehicle would cost, let<BR>
>alone what's reasonable. And some of the more game-changing armour (and<BR>
>full body replacement) tech is in the Chrome books.<BR>
<BR>
         [snip]<BR>
<BR>
>--<BR>
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
><BR>
>An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
         Hi, Rupert...  the Maximum Metal design sequence is for everything <BR>
from Scooters to Powered Armor to Mac Trucks to MBTs to BUFFs.  And other <BR>
odd things too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:43:46 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_Drives_(LKW=B4s_thoughts)?=<BR>
<BR>
At 15:34 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> >(Kind of reminds me of the Alternate Timeline in Perry Rhodan,<BR>
> >the beginning of which takes place in 1969)<BR>
><BR>
>You mean 19971, when PR set his foot on Luna as first human being in history?<BR>
Right-o! Its really funny to read those novels now.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:27:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> At 07:41 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1. You take every<BR>
> dissenting opinion, no matter how it is phrased, as<BR>
> a personal attack.<BR>
<BR>
 2. > Failure to follow that standard for<BR>
communication<BR>
> results in you being seen<BR>
> as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
<BR>
Well ,first attack me for insulting people,than doing<BR>
it yourself.Fascinating:Shows which is the choice of<BR>
what you are.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> 3. The "debate" as you call it, has been nothing but<BR>
> you making bizarre<BR>
> claims <BR>
<BR>
In your opinion.<BR>
<BR>
> 4. If you had been reading this list for a year,.<BR>
<BR>
Which I never have claimed.But who cares about false<BR>
facts as long as they suit his point of view?<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:29:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
At 09:16 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>--- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> OK, we have to separate "Droyne" from "Ancients" in<BR>
>> this argument.<BR>
><BR>
>I was referring to the Ancients;during the A.<BR>
>period,they were the  same(more or less,since the<BR>
>Droyne were somewhat as subjects)<BR>
<BR>
No. They. Weren't.  There were only about 400 Ancients all told. No more.<BR>
The superintelligent children of Grandfather were the Ancients. They were<BR>
immortal, possesed immense psionic abilities, and vast intellects that<BR>
catapulted their society from TL 9 to TL Ohmygod in mere centuries.<BR>
<BR>
They used servitor races everywhere they went. Many of these races died in<BR>
the Final War.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:24:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 09:05 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well,there MUST be a "correct spelling mailing list"<BR>
>somewhere.Perhaps they should focus their attention to<BR>
>it.<BR>
<BR>
There are several such lists, but they do not discuss Traveller. Are you<BR>
saying that *we* should obligated to figure out what you are saying? Well,<BR>
in that case G vilja  jst hgur, srsaukafullur daui ekktur til maur.<BR>
<BR>
>>  We are all mature adults here<BR>
><BR>
>I hope we're not!It would be a sad thing if only over<BR>
>18 years old  are interested in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
I was a mature adult at sixteen. How old are you anyway?<BR>
<BR>
>> Just a quick note: I found three errors looking over<BR>
>> this note, and spell<BR>
>> check found a few more. It took thirty seconds to<BR>
>> correct them.<BR>
><BR>
>So I don't spellcheck:So what?<BR>
<BR>
So it renders your post unreadable. You might have great ideas, but if they<BR>
look like dreck then nobody is going to bother looking. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:37:17 -0800<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Came across this in my files today - I don't think I even have the paper<BR>
photocopy that I used to key the article in with several years ago. Anyway,<BR>
thought others might be interested, so enjoy.<BR>
<BR>
***<BR>
<BR>
                      TRAVELLER FENCING<BR>
                    -------(- by -)------<BR>
                        Dean Martelle<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     In my latest Traveller campaign I have discovered that<BR>
there are many types of fencing that are not covered in the<BR>
rules of Traveller. As in my campaign the use of firearms is<BR>
prohibited on Terra, fencing is a high art. That and the<BR>
fact that the players in my game demanded something.<BR>
     The first form of exotic fencing that I will cover is<BR>
called rapier - dagger, or renaissance fencing. This form<BR>
involves the use of one short blade as a parrying weapon and<BR>
a long blade to strike with.<BR>
<BR>
     In Traveller rapier - dagger fencing can be done as<BR>
follows. There are 3 long sword-type weapons eligible for<BR>
this kind of fencing. Foil (actually a rapier or epee)<BR>
Sword, and Cutlass. The Broadsword is too heavy and<BR>
two-handed. There is only ONE weapon that can serve as the<BR>
parrying weapon or main-gausche: Blade. To use this type of<BR>
combat the character must have at least 1 expertise in the<BR>
long bladed weapon, 1/2 expertise in Blade, and a special<BR>
expertise in rapier - dagger combat.<BR>
<BR>
Weapon(s) Expertise + Rapier - Dagger Expertise = the DM<BR>
(Die Modifier).<BR>
<BR>
For defending fractional Expertise rounds UP. A character<BR>
with the minimum requirements would be able to parry one<BR>
attack at -3 or two attacks at -2 each.<BR>
     For attacking the same formula is used except that<BR>
fractional expertise is rounded DOWN. Also if a character<BR>
attempts to attack with both weapons that character is -2 in<BR>
addition to all other modifications. So a character with the<BR>
minimum requirements would attack at +2 with the Sword, +1<BR>
with the Blade, or 0 and -1 respectively with both weapons.<BR>
     However there is a limitation on multiple attacks and<BR>
parries based on the characters level of expertise.<BR>
*** At no time does a character using rapier - dagger combat<BR>
get more than two parries and two attacks. ***<BR>
     At expertise 1 the character can take 3 actions, 2<BR>
parries and 1 attack, or 2 attacks and 1 parry (of course<BR>
the character could only take 1 attack and 1 parry).<BR>
     At expertise 2 the character can take up to 4 actions,<BR>
that is the character may attack twice and has 2 parries.<BR>
     Only at rapier - dagger expertise 3 or above may a<BR>
character attack and parry multiple targets.<BR>
<BR>
     In addition to rapier -dagger fencing, I will soon<BR>
experiment with grafting the Melee movement rules onto the<BR>
Traveller fencing system. The tentative rules call for<BR>
movement allowances of 10 for a character wearing Jack or no<BR>
armour, 8 for those wearing Vacc Suits or any other armour.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
           -)------ MORE TRAVELLER FENCING ------(-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Again and again players in my Traveller game have<BR>
criticized the lack of shields and the treatment of armour<BR>
and movement. In an attempt to rectify this situation I have<BR>
concocted the following variants...<BR>
<BR>
Shields<BR>
     Shields are seldom used on Terra except as purely sport<BR>
items - (you don't go walking down the street with one). The<BR>
only shield that is generally available is the Buckler.<BR>
Bucklers are 40 centimeters in diameter and are made of a<BR>
tough plastic or lite metal bonded with ballistic cloth.<BR>
Bucklers use gives a -2 DM on the opponents roll to hit with<BR>
a blade weapon. For each level of expertise in using a<BR>
buckler an additional -1 on the opponents die roll is<BR>
assessed. Expertise in a buckler must be chosen as Blade<BR>
Combat. Against guns a buckler gives a -1 on the die roll to<BR>
hit regardless of the level of expertise. In addition, a<BR>
buckler can not be used with a pole weapon or a Broadsword.<BR>
<BR>
Melee and Traveller<BR>
     Many of the players are tired of figuring out all the<BR>
DM's needed for individual combat (as is the referee). I<BR>
have always wanted to do some more realistic combat<BR>
situations than occur in the Traveller system. To integrate<BR>
Melee into Traveller the first thing to do is set the<BR>
ranges.<BR>
     Close - is defined as being in the same hex as your<BR>
             opponent.<BR>
     Short - is defined as being in an adjacent hex.<BR>
     Medium - is defined as being between 2 and 25 hexes<BR>
              away.<BR>
     Long - is defined as being between 26 and 125 hexes<BR>
            away.<BR>
     Very Long - is anything above 125 hexes away.<BR>
<BR>
     Each hex is about equal to 2 meters using this system.<BR>
The options a player can take and the definition of engaged<BR>
are incorporated from Melee without modification.<BR>
     Evading in this system is more important. There is a<BR>
- -2 DM for Close to Medium range and a -4 DM for Long and<BR>
Very Long range. Only taking a defend option allows evading<BR>
and evading IS cumulative with weapons expertise if desired.<BR>
Remember a player can't evade and attack on the same turn.<BR>
<BR>
Armour and Damage<BR>
     To use the Melee system in Traveller is difficult but<BR>
not impossible. Armour is much better after 2,000 years.<BR>
<BR>
     Nothing - no hits absorbed base MA is 10.<BR>
     Jack - 2 hits absorbed base MA is 10.<BR>
     Mesh - 4 hits absorbed base MA is 8.<BR>
     Cloth - 7 hits absorbed base MA is 8.<BR>
     Ablat - 4 hits absorbed but 12 hits absorbed from<BR>
             lasers (for each 12 hits -3 hits on the next<BR>
             absorption for lasers -1 hit for other weapons).<BR>
     Reflec - 0 hits absorbed but gives a -8 DM to laser<BR>
              fire.<BR>
     Battle - 12 hits absorbed base MA is 10.<BR>
<BR>
     If you hit with an automatic weapon roll for damage<BR>
     TWICE.<BR>
     To work things this way just take range and evasion<BR>
modifiers (along with applicable expertise) find the needed<BR>
to hit and roll two dice. Remember, base number to hit is<BR>
8+.<BR>
     IF there is ant doubt as to who goes first in combat go<BR>
in order of Dexterity.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
END.<BR>
<BR>
Editors Note: This article was written before the combat<BR>
              rules contained in STRIKER were published.<BR>
<BR>
Author: Dean Martelle<BR>
Article appeared in ANN ARBOR WARGAMER #10.<BR>
(Date unknown).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:34:42 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> 3.  The ship becomes a luxury suite at the Auger Inn.  AuricTech points<BR>
> out just how much enemy firepower it took to kill the ship, even though<BR>
> the ship was not operating IAW Imperial Naval doctrine (only a fool<BR>
> would fly a BB atmospheric over a hostile world with operating<BR>
> defenses), and we have a good shot of getting the contract for building<BR>
> a replacement.  Besides, the ships that are _built_ to operate in close<BR>
> proximity of a defended world have a good shot at knocking out defensive<BR>
> batteries that fire to bring down the MONTANA-class BB, as they expose<BR>
> themselves by firing.  Makes later suppression of enemy defenses easier.<BR>
<BR>
Since when do buried meson sites expose themselves by firing?  At that range<BR>
you won't even have to fire up active sensors.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:38:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<lurk mode off><tongue in cheek mode on><BR>
<BR>
Hey Doug look a reply from John with no spelling errors!!!<BR>
and even some long words (maybe he found where <BR>
the spellchecker button was? )<BR>
<BR>
<tongue in cheek mode off><lurk mode on><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 9:16 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I was referring to the Ancients;during the A.<BR>
> period,they were the  same(more or less,since the<BR>
> Droyne were somewhat as subjects)<BR>
<BR>
> Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is from the<BR>
> Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features a<BR>
> (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but that was<BR>
> uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried to<BR>
> revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> withit.It survived till it was replaced with christianity.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:35:54 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Colonial Tech Levels in the Solomani Rim<BR>
<BR>
At 10:49 AM 3/16/00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >I agree that police units (and military units in police roles) should be<BR>
> >mainly local tech, but I can certainly imagine a special police unit -<BR>
> >especially one based near the local startown - fitted out with imported<BR>
> >higher-tech equipment, just in case the crew of a Free Trader decides<BR>
> >to take over the local finance district with a couple of laser rifles and<BR>
> >a suit of combat armor.<BR>
><BR>
>         I certainly agree, though in a pinch a crossbow might surprise the<BR>
>         miscreant.<BR>
><BR>
>Peez<BR>
<BR>
         Ah, yes...  the "Rocket-Assisted Impact Sabotted Depleted Uranium" <BR>
quarrel....  Heavy crossbow, only, 'natch....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:43:49 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
What are the canon Droyne worlds in the Spinward Marches?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:45:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
I'll be 49 in October. Looking forward to the big 5-0h. Just so you know, I<BR>
decided that I was going to live to be at least 100! I figure at the present<BR>
rate of technological increase in medicine it won't even be a challenge....<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:53 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard says:<BR>
><BR>
> << Old? You? Hah!<BR>
><BR>
>  I turned 45 last month... >><BR>
><BR>
> Still got ya beat.<BR>
><BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:44:12 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > Where can one dl a test version?<BR>
><BR>
>  http://www.crosswinds.net/~mythosa/Download/GMNotebook.zip<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Stormhound...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:50:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
An addendum to my previous reply about being 49 this year. A dear friend of<BR>
mine and I have been researching baseball caps the say "G.O.F.". This stands<BR>
for Gnarly Old Fart!!! We want them in Black with Gold letters and very<BR>
sturdy material. Once we find a decent cap that meets our requirements, with<BR>
reasonable prices, I'll post it back here on the TML and offer them at cost<BR>
plus shipping.<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:53 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard says:<BR>
><BR>
> << Old? You? Hah!<BR>
><BR>
>  I turned 45 last month... >><BR>
><BR>
> Still got ya beat.<BR>
><BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:00:22 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Targeting Deep Meson Sites (was: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship)<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Since when do buried meson sites expose themselves by firing?  At that range<BR>
> you won't even have to fire up active sensors.<BR>
<BR>
If nothing else, the neutrino emissions from the deep meson sites' power<BR>
plants can be detected and triangulated, and the neutrino sources can<BR>
then be attacked.  No power, no fire.<BR>
<BR>
ISTR this discussion (deep meson sites, and how to knock them out) was<BR>
held a year or so ago, but I don't remember what the final consensus<BR>
was.<BR>
<BR>
<pulls pin from Mr. Grenade><BR>
<BR>
It's not quite a "done to death" issue, so let's trot this one out<BR>
again. <BR>
<BR>
<releases spoon, counts to two, throws Mr. Grenade, and ducks for cover><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:55:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>
 <BR>
> I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
> that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest introduction.<BR>
<BR>
It depends on how much 'magic tech' you want.  Realistically, shielding from<BR>
a solar flare requires the equivalent of a meter or more of steel, which <BR>
isn't practical on a vacc suit at all (SD and bonded SD have a functionally<BR>
'magic' level of radiation shielding; battledress and powered armor might<BR>
allow surviving a solar flare, though it would be unhealthy).<BR>
<BR>
Shielding in deep space depends on how long you want it for.  At high tech,<BR>
anything other than a skinsuit will probably protect against the low<BR>
penetration beta which is the most common part of solar radiation; however,<BR>
high penetration radiation will still give doses of a couple rads an hour.<BR>
Going out in a skinsuit, unless protected by a magnetic field, would be<BR>
fatal in minutes.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:57:02 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
Chris Dixon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I just finished reading Blackhawk Down, an outstanding true story of of<BR>
> the bloody firefight in Mogadishu Somalia with Delta Force and US Army<BR>
> Rangers vs. basically the entire city of Mogadishu.<BR>
><BR>
> One of the lads took an RPG hit.  The round went right through his vest<BR>
> and lodged unexploded in his chest.  Needless to say, he didn't make<BR>
> it.  IIRC Vietnam era flack vests had ceramic plates so maybe the above<BR>
> referenced jarhead lucked out.<BR>
><BR>
> The new Kevlar vests the Rangers had in Somalia also had plates.  Maybe<BR>
> the round missed the plate and went right through the Kevlar fabric.<BR>
><BR>
> OBTrav:  This is a good instance of what High-Tech vs. Low Tech warfare<BR>
> can turn into.  100 Rangers and Delta "operators" were able to hold out<BR>
> against thousands of Somalis.  They took one hell of a beating doing it<BR>
> though. Something on the order of 70 wounded and 18 dead.<BR>
<BR>
Estimates on the outcome of this incident which I have read say that the<BR>
Somalis took about 50 times as many casualties as the Americans did, mainly<BR>
from the results of our air support. The first thing we did was establish a<BR>
protective wall of suppressive fire around our guys.<BR>
<BR>
It's probably a good generalization to say that it's very unpleasant to be<BR>
on the receiving end of massive firepower, and we (i.e. the U.S.) have<BR>
fought this was since WWII. I always assume that high TL forces will be<BR>
roughly the same way.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:01:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson writes:<BR>
> What are the canon Droyne worlds in the Spinward Marches?<BR>
<BR>
Andor (0236 C6957X5-9) and Candory (0336 C5936X4-8).  There's also minority<BR>
populations on Sansibar (0412 B200310-A) and Spirelle (1927 C766846-8).<BR>
The majority of the sector's Droyne live on Spirelle.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:01:41 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OUCH!<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>I thik I've seen that same photo, but I would have bet money it was a<BR>
mortar<BR>
>round, not a forty mike mike. IIRC, the patient was a Vietnamese who had<BR>
been<BR>
>riding in an APC and the round dropped on him from above (mortar rounds --<BR>
>they do that, y'know) penetrated the skin and burrowed under the skin until<BR>
>it was stopped by the pelvis, which it fractured. Round didn't detonate in<BR>
>the patient, but it was surgically removed and touched off by an EOD team<BR>
>afterwards.<BR>
<BR>
You know now that you have provided more of the details it jogs my memory<BR>
such that I think that you are indeed correct.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:08:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Targeting Deep Meson Sites (was: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship)<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE writes:<BR>
<BR>
> If nothing else, the neutrino emissions from the deep meson sites' power<BR>
> plants can be detected and triangulated, and the neutrino sources can<BR>
> then be attacked.  No power, no fire.<BR>
<BR>
I can think of several ways of avoiding this.  For low threat situations you<BR>
can simply use a tap into the civilian power net -- this obviously doesn't<BR>
work in war, but helps prevent casually locating the site.  For higher threat,<BR>
just use a power source which doesn't produce neutrinos (a geothermal tap, for<BR>
example) or a distributed grid of power sources.  We won't even get into the<BR>
issue of meson submarines, which are just like buried meson sites except that<BR>
they move (which is a big advantage, on reflection -- buried sites can't move,<BR>
so if someone can get a map of your meson sites he can just bombard the hell<BR>
out of them).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2112<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2113</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2113<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Cheese and Gold (Was: Re: "For it's root, root, root...")<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
RE: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
Canon and blind playtesting<BR>
re:  Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: Best rules system (sorry, it's getting a bit long now)<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:04:07 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
At 19:01 17.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>Ian Ferguson writes:<BR>
> > What are the canon Droyne worlds in the Spinward Marches?<BR>
><BR>
>Andor (0236 C6957X5-9) and Candory (0336 C5936X4-8).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Two worlds i vote to leave out of the landgrab!<BR>
Its nicer to have them totally undetailed. Everything else would just ruin <BR>
the mystery...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:16:30 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "For it's root, root, root for the home team.<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> No, Grandparents lived in Wawatosa, I'm a native SFer.<BR>
> <BR>
> Gold or Cheese, which would *you* rather have?<BR>
<BR>
Heh heh! Ask Midas...;-><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:27:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca> wrote:<BR>
> <lurk mode off><tongue in cheek mode on><BR>
> <BR>
> Hey Doug look a reply from John with no spelling<BR>
> errors!!!<BR>
> and even some long words (maybe he found where <BR>
> the spellchecker button was? )<BR>
 <BR>
> <tongue in cheek mode off><lurk mode on><BR>
<BR>
YOU ARE WRONG!<BR>
I made one.An "a" in "actually" is missing!<BR>
 <BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 9:16 AM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > I was referring to the Ancients;during the A.<BR>
> > period,they were the  same(more or less,since the<BR>
> > Droyne were somewhat as subjects)<BR>
> <BR>
> > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is from<BR>
> the<BR>
> > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features a<BR>
> > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but that<BR>
> was<BR>
> > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried<BR>
> to<BR>
> > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
> christianity.<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:32:28 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Cheese and Gold (Was: Re: "For it's root, root, root...")<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > No, Grandparents lived in Wawatosa, I'm a native SFer.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Gold or Cheese, which would *you* rather have?<BR>
> <BR>
> Heh heh! Ask Midas...;-><BR>
<BR>
Or, to paraphrase Machiavelli:<BR>
<BR>
"Gold can't always get you good cheese, but good cheese can always get<BR>
you gold."<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, if those of us on the TML wanted loads of cheese, we'd be the<BR>
Warhamster 40K list instead.... :-P<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:36:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Dixon" <cdixon@airfoiltech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin Wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Estimates on the outcome of this incident which I have read say that<BR>
the<BR>
>Somalis took about 50 times as many casualties as the Americans did,<BR>
mainly<BR>
>from the results of our air support. The first thing we did was<BR>
establish a<BR>
>protective wall of suppressive fire around our guys.<BR>
<BR>
>It's probably a good generalization to say that it's very unpleasant to<BR>
be<BR>
>on the receiving end of massive firepower, and we (i.e. the U.S.) have<BR>
>fought this was since WWII. I always assume that high TL forces will be<BR>
<BR>
>roughly the same way.<BR>
<BR>
I realized after I hit the send button that I left out the role of air<BR>
superiority.  The Rangers almost certainly wouldn't have made it through<BR>
the night without a resupply, and the Miniguns on the helos definitely<BR>
kept the wolf at bay.<BR>
<BR>
From a ground pounders POV, there is nothing more beautiful than<BR>
friendly air support.<BR>
<BR>
OB Trav:  What's "Danger Close" from Ortillery??<BR>
<BR>
IIRC Naval Gunfire (from U.S. Navy ships) has a one grid-square (1000M )<BR>
danger area round the target area.<BR>
<BR>
- -Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:39:27 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
If you look at the MT ship stats, you'll see that they are compatable with<BR>
MT's vehicle combat system, so when someone takes a potshot at the scout<BR>
with his PGMP-13, you CAN determine what happens.<BR>
The armor of MT ships is scaled with ground combat, and there are<BR>
inoperative/destroyed ratings for hull, power plant, and drives, which are<BR>
what the major entries on the vehicle hit table are (these ratings are<BR>
useless in starship vs. starship combat - they're there only for this sort<BR>
of situation).  It works in reverse too - starship weapons were also rated<BR>
against personal-level armor and hit points (they are basically treated like<BR>
artillery).  The rules were a bit fuzzy on person/ship interactions, but the<BR>
tools for it were there.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Scout Harris [mailto:scout.harry@eudoramail.com]<BR>
<BR>
>The concept of roll to hit, then see if penetration occurs, was applied to<BR>
starships as well. But MT starship combat used a modification of the CT<BR>
"High Guard" system of combat system, which converted groups of weapons to<BR>
UCP codes, as was the armour, and combat results were basically generated by<BR>
comparing codes (bit more complicated than that.. but I don't want to<BR>
describe in too much detail). <BR>
<BR>
This worked ok for starship combat, but made it problematic when characters<BR>
started firing at starships with vehicle weapons, in personal combat (of for<BR>
that matter, powerful personal weapons like fgmp's). There was no method for<BR>
converting vehicle weapons to use the starships UCP codes, so when this<BR>
situation arose, it became difficult to determine the damage that was done<BR>
to a starship.   <<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:48:42 -0800<BR>
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
Oops by-golly you are right and I'm wrong. Sorry Doug I take<BR>
back what I said, John didn't actually send a reply with<BR>
no spelling mistakes. <BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 10:27 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca> wrote:<BR>
> > <lurk mode off><tongue in cheek mode on><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Hey Doug look a reply from John with no spelling<BR>
> > errors!!!<BR>
> > and even some long words (maybe he found where <BR>
> > the spellchecker button was? )<BR>
>  <BR>
> > <tongue in cheek mode off><lurk mode on><BR>
> <BR>
> YOU ARE WRONG!<BR>
> I made one.An "a" in "actually" is missing!<BR>
>  <BR>
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> > From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
> > To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 9:16 AM<BR>
> > Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > > I was referring to the Ancients;during the A.<BR>
> > > period,they were the  same(more or less,since the<BR>
> > > Droyne were somewhat as subjects)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is from<BR>
> > the<BR>
> > > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features a<BR>
> > > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> > > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but that<BR>
> > was<BR>
> > > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried<BR>
> > to<BR>
> > > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> > > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
> > christianity.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:38:23 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > <tongue in cheek mode off><lurk mode on><BR>
><BR>
>YOU ARE WRONG!<BR>
>I made one.An "a" in "actually" is missing!<BR>
I thought you wanted to bury the spelling thread...<BR>
<BR>
Lets.....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:46:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
<BR>
>> >Of course, with trial set for 8 May, things will be a little<BR>
>> >hectic in April, and you guys may not hear much from me.> > <BR>
>> I do hope you aren't intending to win by taking over an ICBM <BR>
>> silo and threatening to start WWIII unless they concede the <BR>
><BR>
>Sounds an awful lot like the Shadowrun universe...<BR>
<BR>
Well, liability is open and shut and we think we can prove some<BR>
major damages, so we expect that, in desperation, they are going<BR>
to try to summon a major demon -- that's why I've been on the<BR>
phone to Hell so much lately, keeping the demons on our payroll.<BR>
 I may have to send a paralegal there for a sacrifice.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:48:26 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> If you look at the MT ship stats, you'll see that they are compatable with<BR>
> MT's vehicle combat system, so when someone takes a potshot at the scout<BR>
> with his PGMP-13, you CAN determine what happens.<BR>
<BR>
Except, of course, for the discrepancy with the inoperative/destroyed<BR>
values. For example, if a hull value is 50/100 as generated by the MT<BR>
rules, it really should be 500/1000. This is mentioned in the errata.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:53:28 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> > a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The idea <BR>
> > was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
> <BR>
> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and Aluminum.<BR>
<BR>
Uhoh. Leonard, you may have just triggered another American-versus-<BR>
English thread. In the UK, it's AluminIUM. Just like Lanthanium. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:03:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Canon and blind playtesting<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
<BR>
>The problem with T4 is that it is the 4th distillment of the <BR>
>information by ppl who know to ppl who know. <BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the problem with T4 is that much of it was<BR>
written people who didn't know and apparently didn't care to<BR>
learn.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:14:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
>From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
<BR>
>What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined <BR>
>together then launched into jump space using one ship's jump <BR>
>drive, then in the jump, activating the other ship's jump drive<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Another approach is to mount two jump drives in a single ship. <BR>
You use one to get into jump and then turn on the other at some<BR>
point during the jump.   <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:15:16 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system (sorry, it's getting a bit long now)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn [mailto:rboleyn@paradise.net.nz]<BR>
<BR>
> Well that's even stranger than I thought.  You'd think a Vacc suit,<BR>
> designed to withstand high temperatures and radiation, would provide some<BR>
> protection.<BR>
<BR>
>A laser isn't high temperature or ionizing radiation, though. It had <BR>
interesting effects, like lasers becoming the weapon of choice for <BR>
shooting up TL8- locals who didn't have "real" armour, but you had to <BR>
have some old fashioned slug throwers (or PGMPs) for when the TED's <BR>
elite troopers turned up.<<BR>
<BR>
A laser does it's damage by increasing the temperature of the target at a<BR>
focused point, doesn't it?  A suit should at least reduce the damage a bit,<BR>
I would think - it has to burn through the suit before it hits flesh, and<BR>
that would have to burn off some of the beam's energy (although not<BR>
necessarily enough to make a difference to the target).  Also, vaccsuits<BR>
might be partially reflective or have a reflective layer to aid in<BR>
temperature control, and a laser should be affected by that (again, probably<BR>
not enough to save your life, but a little bit).<BR>
 <BR>
> Yeah, that's basically what I meant.  You couldn't use background info<BR>
> without making major changes, because there was zero chance that nothing<BR>
> had happened in the last seventy years of war and collapse to change the<BR>
> info.<BR>
<BR>
>So? One annoying thing about a fair bit of the MT material (until Hard <BR>
Times, etc) was that it tended to ignore the minor matter of this <BR>
humoungous civil war that was going on at the time, as if it had no <BR>
effect on such things as the tourist industry, etc. The Library data in <BR>
MT's Imperial Encyclopedia was CT era stuff, and thus already out of <BR>
date.<BR>
Besides if you played in the Spinward Marches (The Regency) a fair bit <BR>
of the data wouldn't be completely out of date.<<BR>
<BR>
Yes a war was going on, but the immediate effects were in the subsectors<BR>
where the fighting was going on.  With the Imperium as big as it is, lots of<BR>
areas were relatively unaffected by the war until Hard Times kicked in, and<BR>
you could use their library data just by switching the little "Im" in the<BR>
allegiance sector listing to whatever faction was local.  In T:NE, ONLY the<BR>
Regency was anything like it had been.  <BR>
That is one problem with the MT background material - it really only covers<BR>
about 8 years of the Traveller timeline, from 1116 to 1124 or so.<BR>
<BR>
> These<BR>
> changes made the game more "hard sci-fi", but didn't jive with the<BR>
> Traveller universe as already described, to a much greater extent than the<BR>
> changes MT made (the biggest change of this sort that MT made from CT was<BR>
> in the amount of fuel a fusion plant requires).  I'm no gearhead, but I<BR>
> enjoyed creating ships in MT to match their CT predecessors, and it was<BR>
> far more difficult to match the originals with T:NE rules.<BR>
<BR>
>Let's see: HEPlaR invalidated recationless thrusters, which turned up <BR>
in HG 2nd printing, which had invalidated the reaction drives of the <BR>
LBBs and HG's first printing, so perhaps HG should also be ditched. <<BR>
<BR>
Okay, let's throw out HG's second printing.  If I recall, they only put in<BR>
notes that escribe the maneuver drive as HEPLaR, it still has the same stats<BR>
and behaves just like the maneuver drive in the first ed.  My problem with<BR>
the HEPLaR is that it can't provide constant thrust and requires massive<BR>
amounts of reaction mass.  The original designs don't have massive fuel<BR>
tanks for reaction mass - the majority of their fuel is for the jump drive.<BR>
The original in-system rules assume constant acceleration too.<BR>
<BR>
>Sensors: previous versions either didn't bother with sensors or had <BR>
some really unrealistic ideas.<<BR>
<BR>
Yes, the previous versions were unrealistic or ignored.  The problem I had<BR>
with the sensors in T:NE is that the apeture synthesis rule requires big<BR>
retractable masts for the antennas to get any decent range, and those masts<BR>
aren't in the illustrations or deckplans of the classic ships anywhere (with<BR>
the possible exception of the Donosev, which does have sensor masts).<BR>
Certainly the T:NE makes more sense, but is it more fun?<BR>
<BR>
>Lasers: Gravitic focusing merely explained how you could get the ranges <BR>
that previous editions had given lasers, that's all. CLC lasers just <BR>
gave an alternative power source. The old-style DEI lasers still <BR>
existed.<<BR>
<BR>
Yes, it did explain how the ranges were obtained (and quite cleverly), but<BR>
it also changed the look of things.  No longer could a laser be built with a<BR>
barrel - you had to have a large-diameter lens instead (and the TNE drawings<BR>
show this).  The classic ships didn't have giant lenses sitting on their<BR>
turrets, they had little stubby barrels.  Unrealistic, perhpas, but more<BR>
aesthetically pleasing to my mind.  <BR>
<BR>
>Matching CT and MT ships: Well remember that CT of the LBBs is mostly <BR>
about TL12. Try creating a 100 ton scout or a Patrol Cruiser at TL12 <BR>
using MT sometime. That's why all the ships in the base MT rules are <BR>
TL15 - the construction rules don't work real well for small PC type <BR>
ships at lower TLs. While TNE had this problem a bit (look at the Mrec <BR>
Cruiser) it wasn't nearly so bad.<<BR>
<BR>
I designed TL9-14 versions for all the classic ships (I think I still have<BR>
TL9-15 designs for the Scout, Free Trader, Far Trader, Subsidized Merchant,<BR>
Patrol Cruiser, Mercenary Cruiser, Subsidized Liner, Lab Ship, and Yacht),<BR>
because I reasoned that my players wouldn't always have top-of-the-line<BR>
ships, and they matched the originals quite well (admittedly, the TL9 Patrol<BR>
Cruiser was pretty worthless, but TL11 and up wasn't bad).  The main trick<BR>
was to reduce the fuel volume used by the power plant.  The designs in the<BR>
MT Encyclopedia all assumed running the plant at full-bore for the full fuel<BR>
duration (and tried to give 30 days duration).  When I designed my ships, I<BR>
gave them 7 days with just the life support and controls running (for<BR>
jumpspace), around 20 days with the maneuver drive, life support, commo and<BR>
sensor gear (for in-sytem tranist), and about 3 days at full bore (for<BR>
combat).  The resulting designs had just about the same cargo area and<BR>
armanent as the original LBB versions (closer than the ones in the<BR>
Encyclopedia even), although they required a bit of fuel accounting to use<BR>
properly (My finished designs had three fuel consumption ratings in kl/hour,<BR>
and the players would keep track of how long the ship operated in each<BR>
mode).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:19:37 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Black Ice wrote:<BR>
> While Jason's base rules suit R!koogh G'naak as a youthful pastime, I<BR>
> can see the game expanding its base, with professional R!koogh G'naak<BR>
> teams throughout K'kree space.  (After all, one way to encourage youths<BR>
> to play is to provide them with adult role-model players.)<BR>
> True R!koogh G'naak aficionados (and professionals) would use a "melon"<BR>
> spheroid made of specially-treated plant sap [read: vulcanized rubber],<BR>
> filled with a foamed plant sap matrix.  That way, only the truly skilled<BR>
> players can actually score the bonus points for destroying the "melon."<BR>
> For additional sport, the pole on which the "melon" is placed can have<BR>
> fairly powerful electromagnets, which will tend to attract (and thus<BR>
> deflect) the players' weapons away from a solid strike on the "melon."<BR>
> The power feed to these electromagnets can even be set to vary, based on<BR>
> the "handicap" of the approaching player.  (This form of handicapping is<BR>
> most common in amateur recreational leagues.)<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
<BR>
    Yeah, I was thinking of putting together a "day at the fair" type of<BR>
adventure where the characters play a bunch of games. Some native,<BR>
and a LOT of "alien" ones.<BR>
    I do like the idea of making this a professional game. What do you<BR>
think the K'kree would serve for snacks (Hot dogs and p-nuts? :-) at<BR>
their games?<BR>
    Do K'kree have cheer-leaders at this, or would it tend to be more like<BR>
a baseball game? What kind of came to mind while reading Jason's<BR>
post was that this was sort of like "T-ball" in which case- it would be the<BR>
"juvenile" game- so, what would a baseball version (if they had one) be?<BR>
    BTW: If one of you says "cricket" make sure that you give a MUCH<BR>
clearer explanation of the rules than I have seen elsewhere :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:04:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Traveller: Opening scene:  The Monday morning staff meeting.<BR>
<BR>
> Managing Partner:  Bridget, report on Amagashi v. Beck?  <BR>
><BR>
> Bridget von Scheinwerf:  The government of Beck's World has<BR>
> responded to our subpoena by producing documents -- actual paper<BR>
> documents!  Why did we even get into this case on a low-tech<BR>
> world.  I've submitted our cash advance request to cover travel<BR>
> for myself and a paralegal to go to Beck's World and look at the<BR>
> documents.  I expect that we'll just bring them back in<BR>
> electronic format.  <BR>
<BR>
That's ok. Check out how Babylonians "secured" documents and<BR>
inventories sometime. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:25:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
> news:<00316.163813.3F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
><BR>
>> Why? Because if some of those weapons *are* still floating around,<BR>
>> having been "interrupted" in their progress towards their targets, you<BR>
>> could lose a *lot* of worlds/people if some bozo accidentally<BR>
>> re-activates them!<BR>
><BR>
> This reminds me of an incident involving a particularly boziform individual.<BR>
> When policing the range on which we had fired the M60 and M2, one of my<BR>
> battalion's people found an unexploded 40mm grenade, like the kind you fire<BR>
> from the M203. Being significantly more boziform than the average guy on the<BR>
> street, he picked up the round and took it home with him. Now, if you were a<BR>
> person with a dud 40mm  grenade, what would you do with it? That's right,<BR>
> you would shoot at it with a BB gun in your garage! BOOM! Fragments in the<BR>
> legs.<BR>
><BR>
> Most of the people you meet in the military are basically intelligent,<BR>
> hard-working, etc, but its those few outliers which give you all of the good<BR>
> stories.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like the one I heard about a teacher calling the ordnance<BR>
disposal folks at the local Army base because one of her first(?)<BR>
graders had brought a *live* 75mm round for Show & Tell.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:27:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 16 Mar 00, at 18:35, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
>> news:<00316.163813.3F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> Why? Because if some of those weapons *are* still floating around,<BR>
>>> having been "interrupted" in their progress towards their targets, you<BR>
>>> could lose a *lot* of worlds/people if some bozo accidentally<BR>
>>> re-activates them!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> This reminds me of an incident involving a particularly boziform<BR>
>> individual. When policing the range on which we had fired the M60 and M2,<BR>
>> one of my battalion's people found an unexploded 40mm grenade, like the<BR>
>> kind you fire from the M203. Being significantly more boziform than the<BR>
>> average guy on the street, he picked up the round and took it home with<BR>
>> him. Now, if you were a person with a dud 40mm  grenade, what would you do<BR>
>> with it? That's right, you would shoot at it with a BB gun in your garage!<BR>
>> BOOM! Fragments in the legs.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Most of the people you meet in the military are basically intelligent,<BR>
>> hard-working, etc, but its those few outliers which give you all of the<BR>
>> good stories.<BR>
><BR>
> The MPs at Waiouru here in NZ have an impressive collection of things <BR>
> that have been wrecked by idiots with blinds (the unexploded rounds <BR>
> found in target zones, etc). They're the poor sods who get to go ad <BR>
> pick up the pieces, work out what happened, etc.<BR>
><BR>
> One of the better known ones (because it's told to all new recruits as <BR>
> a cautionary tale) is about some young chap who found two dud 40mm <BR>
> grenades (as above) and was banging them together in the back of a <BR>
> Landrover to show off to the female signaller who was with him. I've <BR>
> seen photos of the 'rover, and it was absolutely totalled. IIRC he died <BR>
> and the sig was blinded. I forget what happened to the driver, but they <BR>
> were at least badly injured.<BR>
<BR>
<sigh><BR>
<BR>
I'd be kind of interested in finding duds like those, having a<BR>
life-long fascination in things that burn or go "boom!". But if I<BR>
actually *found* one, my methods would more along the lines of<BR>
propping it up *carefully*, then retreating to a large distance, and<BR>
asking something like: "Sarge, I found a dud over there (point at<BR>
object 100 meters away). Is it ok to waste a few rounds from my rifle<BR>
trying to set it off?"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:38:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
>> First and foremost Canon is not the holy grail that it seems like from the<BR>
>> out side John. All you have to do is place 4 letters in front of any<BR>
>> statement and nullify it. IMTU- In my traveller universe. The ppl that are<BR>
>> on this list has available to them a background and wealth of traveller<BR>
>> stuff that many new gamers can't get their hands on. My humble collection<BR>
> of<BR>
>> traveller stuff and it is humble even though I believe it's atleast 2 feet<BR>
>> tall if all the books and everything is laid on it's side is dwarfed by<BR>
> the<BR>
>> bootie that's in some of the other ppl that regularly talk here. CANON is<BR>
>> the official party line and IMO only important when playing in a truly<BR>
> large<BR>
>> world size AKA a con.<BR>
><BR>
> Having the stuff doesn't make you more important in the TML community.  My<BR>
> collection is in no way humble, yet nobody gives a hoot what I say :-p  Not<BR>
> only that, I'm still a heretic with a TU that ignores 100% of the canon<BR>
> setting and even postulates a different jump technology (horrors).  So don't<BR>
> get the idea that this phenomena is something specific to the TML.  Some<BR>
> folks will be snobs about anything, even if it is only imaginary ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Heck, I think we'd all agree that the main reason for trying to make<BR>
"canon" known is so that when a GM violates it, he is doing so<BR>
*deliberately* rather than accidentally. <BR>
<BR>
That way, if a player comments on it, he can just say that in his<BR>
universe things are different, rarther than having to backtrack.<BR>
<BR>
It *should* also mean that he's at least *tried* to think thru the<BR>
consequences of the change, so someone doesn't (easily) surprise him<BR>
with a "side effect" of the rule change that he hadn't thought of.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:43:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:53:55 EST<BR>
>> From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
>> Subject: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares?<BR>
>><BR>
>> At TL 15 would vacc suits be able to withstand solar flare radiation<BR>
>> outside protective planetary belts? Just curious...I know that<BR>
>> modern suits won't and that US shuttle astronauts have to be<BR>
>> careful....<BR>
<BR>
> I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
> that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest introduction.<BR>
<BR>
*How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
<BR>
This requires *tens* of cm of water, plastics or other materials.<BR>
metals tend to produce secondary radiation if they are thick enough to<BR>
stop the primary radiation. Thus, they tend to "amplify" the effects!<BR>
<BR>
You'd need several *meters* of metal to stop the primary *and*<BR>
secondary radiation.<BR>
<BR>
None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2113<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2114</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2114<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
The Welsh are Tough<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: Ortillery danger zone (was: Marines are Tough) Subject: Re: Marines are Tough  Luther Martin Wrote:  >Estimates on the outcome of this incident which I have read say that the >Somalis took about 50 times as many casualties as the Americans did, mainly >from the results of our air support. The first thing we did was establish a >protective wall of suppressive fire around our guys.  >It's probably a good generalization to say that it's very unpleasant to be >on the receiving end of massive firepower, and we (i.e. the U.S.) have >fought this was since WWII. I always assume that high TL forces will be  >roughly the same way.  I realized after I hit the send button that I left out the role of air superiority.  The Rangers almost certainly wouldn't have made it through the night without a resupply, and the Miniguns on the helos definitely kept the wolf at bay.  From a ground pounders POV, there is nothing more beautiful than friendly air support.  OB Trav:  What's "Danger Clos!<BR>
 e" from Ortillery??  IIRC Naval Gunfire (from U.S. Navy ships) has a one grid-square (1000M ) danger area round the target area. - -Chris<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Kermie<BR>
Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
Re: Massive firepower<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Ortillery danger zone <BR>
Nitpickers' Anonymous (was Dave Must Go ...)<BR>
Courtesy and Captial/Core (Re: TOP 4 REASONS...)<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
RE: Laphroaig<BR>
RE: Galanglic character set<BR>
RE: Courtesy and Captial/Core (Re: TOP 4 REASONS...)<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:21:58 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: The Welsh are Tough<BR>
<BR>
>OBTrav:  This is a good instance of what High-Tech vs. Low Tech warfare<BR>
>can turn into.  100 Rangers and Delta "operators" were able to hold out<BR>
>against thousands of Somalis.  They took one hell of a beating doing it<BR>
>though. Something on the order of 70 wounded and 18 dead.<BR>
><BR>
>-Chris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
So it's the American equivalent of Rourkes Drift...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:17:19 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
>YOU ARE WRONG!<BR>
>I made one.An "a" in "actually" is missing!<BR>
>> > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is from<BR>
>> the<BR>
>> > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features a<BR>
>> > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
>> > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but that<BR>
>> was<BR>
>> > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried<BR>
>> to<BR>
>> > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
>> > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
>> christianity.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's the only one you spotted?<BR>
<BR>
I count 4 spelling mistakes, 7 missing spaces, 2 transposed spaces and<BR>
punctuation marks. and 4 debatable missing capitals. That's 17 mistakes in<BR>
62 words, which is fairly poor. especially as people have repeatedly pointed<BR>
out the missing spaces, and that they come *after* other punctuation, not<BR>
before.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you are dyslexic, in which case I offer my apologies for correcting<BR>
your poor spelling.  It would still be prudent to use a spellchecker, to at<BR>
least highlight the words with which you have the greatest difficulties.<BR>
<BR>
However, much of the criticism you have been receiving is due mainly to your<BR>
truculent and snide attitude, and is simple exacerbated by the state of your<BR>
spelling and grammar.<BR>
<BR>
It's not that I am morally outraged by poor spelling and grammar, its just<BR>
that with the volume of posts on this list, I have to skim through them,<BR>
speed-reading as I go. A poorly spelt post with bad grammar requires careful<BR>
reading to translate into meaningful English.  We are criticising you in<BR>
order to get you to improve your level of English usage, and to make it<BR>
easier to read the list.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:42:28 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Ortillery danger zone (was: Marines are Tough) Subject: Re: Marines are Tough  Luther Martin Wrote:  >Estimates on the outcome of this incident which I have read say that the >Somalis took about 50 times as many casualties as the Americans did, mainly >from the results of our air support. The first thing we did was establish a >protective wall of suppressive fire around our guys.  >It's probably a good generalization to say that it's very unpleasant to be >on the receiving end of massive firepower, and we (i.e. the U.S.) have >fought this was since WWII. I always assume that high TL forces will be  >roughly the same way.  I realized after I hit the send button that I left out the role of air superiority.  The Rangers almost certainly wouldn't have made it through the night without a resupply, and the Miniguns on the helos definitely kept the wolf at bay.  From a ground pounders POV, there is nothing more beautiful than friendly air support.  OB Trav:  What's "Da!<BR>
 nger Close" from Ortillery??  IIRC Naval Gunfire (from U.S. Navy ships) has a one grid-square (1000M ) danger area round the target area. - -Chris<BR>
<BR>
Chris Dixon writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>OB Trav:  What's "Danger Close" from Ortillery??<BR>
>IIRC Naval Gunfire (from U.S. Navy ships) has a one grid-square (1000M )<BR>
>danger area round the target area.<BR>
<BR>
	Does anyone know what the danger zone is for terrestrial<BR>
	artillery?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:42:19 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
I designed it as a juvenille game because I'm not sure if K'Kree adults<BR>
would go in for professional sports.  The only K'kree who would be allowed<BR>
to play R!koogh G'naak would be those who have warrior potential, and when<BR>
they're adults, they're out playing the game with real carnivores (and<BR>
unrepentant omnivores) instead of melons.  <BR>
On the other hoof, it might serve as a suitable pastime for troops on<BR>
garrison or in transit (remember that K'Kree ships are just big fields on<BR>
the inside, suitable for a game).  In that case there might be specialized<BR>
equipment for it, like the electromagnets in the post idea or the more<BR>
durable melon.  <BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]<BR>
Black Ice wrote:<BR>
> While Jason's base rules suit R!koogh G'naak as a youthful pastime, I<BR>
> can see the game expanding its base, with professional R!koogh G'naak<BR>
> teams throughout K'kree space.  (After all, one way to encourage youths<BR>
> to play is to provide them with adult role-model players.)<BR>
> True R!koogh G'naak aficionados (and professionals) would use a "melon"<BR>
> spheroid made of specially-treated plant sap [read: vulcanized rubber],<BR>
> filled with a foamed plant sap matrix.  That way, only the truly skilled<BR>
> players can actually score the bonus points for destroying the "melon."<BR>
> For additional sport, the pole on which the "melon" is placed can have<BR>
> fairly powerful electromagnets, which will tend to attract (and thus<BR>
> deflect) the players' weapons away from a solid strike on the "melon."<BR>
> The power feed to these electromagnets can even be set to vary, based on<BR>
> the "handicap" of the approaching player.  (This form of handicapping is<BR>
> most common in amateur recreational leagues.)<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
<BR>
    Yeah, I was thinking of putting together a "day at the fair" type of<BR>
adventure where the characters play a bunch of games. Some native,<BR>
and a LOT of "alien" ones.<BR>
    I do like the idea of making this a professional game. What do you<BR>
think the K'kree would serve for snacks (Hot dogs and p-nuts? :-) at<BR>
their games?<BR>
    Do K'kree have cheer-leaders at this, or would it tend to be more like<BR>
a baseball game? What kind of came to mind while reading Jason's<BR>
post was that this was sort of like "T-ball" in which case- it would be the<BR>
"juvenile" game- so, what would a baseball version (if they had one) be?<BR>
    BTW: If one of you says "cricket" make sure that you give a MUCH<BR>
clearer explanation of the rules than I have seen elsewhere :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:43:15 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Kermie<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the links everyone who reponded.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:43:14 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
<BR>
Doug,<BR>
<BR>
<< I keep a file of weird wounding incidents, just to point out how difficult<BR>
 it is to model all the bizarre things that can happen in combat. >><BR>
<BR>
Have you consulted a book called _Where Death Delights_? It's a biography of <BR>
the founder of modern forensic pathology and has a huge collection of strange <BR>
things that happen when bullets hit bodies. Been more than a decade since I <BR>
read it, but ISTR a case of a 14-yo hit in the forehead by a .44 (don't <BR>
remember magnum or special) at close range. The round penetrated the skin, <BR>
caromed off the skull and skimed around _inside_ the skin but outside the <BR>
skull until it came to rest between his shoulder blades.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:43:16 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Massive firepower<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-17 13:07:36 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< It's probably a good generalization to say that it's very unpleasant to be<BR>
 on the receiving end of massive firepower, and we (i.e. the U.S.) have<BR>
 fought this was since WWII. I always assume that high TL forces will be<BR>
 roughly the same way.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Don't have the precise reference but the first instance I am aware of in the <BR>
US Army was a regiment of mounted infantry in the ACW that were equipped with <BR>
lever-action Henry repeaters (described by one observer as "the damyankee gun <BR>
that you load on Sunday and fire the rest of the week") at the colonel's <BR>
expense. IIRC they were first blooded at Chicamauga (sic?), where the <BR>
Confederates reported encountering a division based on the hail of bullets <BR>
they encountered. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:43:49 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> At TL 15 would vacc suits be able to withstand solar flare radiation<BR>
> >> outside protective planetary belts? Just curious...I know that<BR>
> >> modern suits won't and that US shuttle astronauts have to be<BR>
> >> careful....<BR>
> <BR>
> > I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
> > that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest introduction.<BR>
> <BR>
> *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
> requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
> and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
> stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
> <BR>
> This requires *tens* of cm of water, plastics or other materials.<BR>
> metals tend to produce secondary radiation if they are thick enough to<BR>
> stop the primary radiation. Thus, they tend to "amplify" the effects!<BR>
> <BR>
> You'd need several *meters* of metal to stop the primary *and*<BR>
> secondary radiation.<BR>
> <BR>
> None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
> too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
<BR>
Nuclear dampers, perhaps, at high enough TL - definitely not TL 11,<BR>
though. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:48:15 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
 Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You know...I've been thinking about that lately, what with the <BR>
>focus on the Ancients and all.<BR>
<BR>
>I'll bet the Droyne whoe exist today were NOT representative of the<BR>
>Droyne then, they're just representative of the Droyne that <BR>
>_survived_ by hunkering down and not looking like a high tech <BR>
>threat.<BR>
<BR>
>That could fix you to a pastoral lifestyle pretty hard and fast.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, there are worlds like Auitawry (Trojan Reach 3140), TL <BR>
15, and Ayldern (Trojan Reach 3013), TL 13.  Both of these world <BR>
are ruled and inhabited by the Dryone, and both are quite high <BR>
tech.  They don't seem all that pastoral.  Of course, Auitawry is a <BR>
Red Zone, and Ayldern is an Amber Zone, so they don't get many <BR>
visitors.  I've always wondered what was gong up there, especially <BR>
on Auitawry.  Any speculations?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
   <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:43:52 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
<BR>
At 08:12 AM 3/17/00, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >My reaction would have been to ask my self a non-rhetorical question: "What<BR>
> >will hurt me more -- being 3 feet away from at least 1 detonating 40mm <BR>
> round<BR>
> >or diving out of a jeep?"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >LKW<BR>
><BR>
>Pushing the idiot out of the jeep?<BR>
><BR>
>Phil Kitching<BR>
>--<BR>
<BR>
         Funny, Phil, I was thinking the same <BR>
thing....  <shove><bounce><bounce><bounce><BOOOM>  "Ooops.  He fell <BR>
out.  Pity, that."  ;-><BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:48:33 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
news:<00317.104331.4T9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
><BR>
> > I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you<BR>
consider<BR>
> > that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest<BR>
introduction.<BR>
><BR>
> *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
> requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
> and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
> stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
><BR>
> This requires *tens* of cm of water, plastics or other materials.<BR>
> metals tend to produce secondary radiation if they are thick enough to<BR>
> stop the primary radiation. Thus, they tend to "amplify" the effects!<BR>
><BR>
> You'd need several *meters* of metal to stop the primary *and*<BR>
> secondary radiation.<BR>
><BR>
> None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
> too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Shielding from high energy *charged* particles only requires keeping them<BR>
away from you using a suitable field. This may be hard with today's<BR>
technology, but at advanced TLs, this may be a reasonable assumption. A more<BR>
realistic scenario may be to use equipment on your ship to create a suitable<BR>
field to protect the crew while the are outside in vacc suits.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:55:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ortillery danger zone <BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Does anyone know what the danger zone is for terrestrial<BR>
> artillery?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I think that the threshold for danger close is either 300 or 400 meters. So<BR>
if you are calling in fire that is that close to your position, you tell the<BR>
fire direction center that the mission is "danger close" and hope for the<BR>
best.<BR>
<BR>
With the introduction of computers, this distinction is somewhat<BR>
meaningless. In the old days, when we used to use manual techniques ("charts<BR>
and darts") to calculate fire commands, your fire direction people were more<BR>
careful on danger close missions. Now that it's all automated, the same<BR>
things happen whether the mission is danger close or not.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:05:15 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Nitpickers' Anonymous (was Dave Must Go ...)<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Mar 2000 22:55 (GMT -0500), goldendj@mail.pcisys.net<BR>
>Subject: Dave Must Go ...<BR>
<<<SNIPPED various incitements to flame wars>>><BR>
><BR>
>- - Bruce's Definitive Sensor Rules ROCK!<BR>
	I missed those.  Can someone please email them to me directly, or email<BR>
telling me to obtain them?  I can't possibly keep up with the volume of<BR>
traffic on the TML nowadays and would probably miss any reply sent to the<BR>
TML.  Thanks in advance.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>- - Of COURSE you can't break even using the standard trade rules. They<BR>
>weren't MEANT to model the economy of the Imperium--they were meant<BR>
>to model the difficulties of life on the edge, as a tramp trader.<BR>
>Don't apply them to the big boys, and you won't have problems. If<BR>
>players could make a living schlepping 60Dtons of crates from point A<BR>
>to point B and back, there wouldn't be much point in Travelling, now,<BR>
>would there?<BR>
><BR>
	I agree.  Can't expect the lives of adventurers to be soft and easy.  Then<BR>
they wouldn't be adventurers.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>- - There's a difference between "it's" and "its," "they're" and<BR>
>"their," and "effect" and "affect," and ordnance and ordinance. And<BR>
<BR>
>you don't use apostrophes to indicate plural!*<BR>
<BR>
	Hear, hear!  (Not "here, here".)  And let us not forget to include the<BR>
difference between ensure and insure*.  Anyone care to get into the whole<BR>
which vs. that thing?  (People generally switch them.)  Woohoo vs. hoohoo?<BR>
(It's a quote from the Homer Simpson cartoon character.)<BR>
<BR>
	Spell checkers are no substitute for knowledge.  Or application of knowledge.<BR>
<BR>
	Anyone who cares to dispute me on these points through the TML shouldn't<BR>
really waste your effort, which is best spent on something more meaningful.<BR>
 I just had to vent some steam.  Thank you, everyone, for your bandwidth,<BR>
patience, and indulgence.  :-><BR>
<BR>
- --Laning (who clearly has Vilani ancestry to be so concerned about such<BR>
conservative and insignificant details...or something)<BR>
<BR>
*    When you take measures to guarantee that a particular thing will<BR>
occur, you have ensured its occurrence.  When you contract with someone to<BR>
compensate you if a thing is lost or damaged, then you have insured that<BR>
thing.  Stop saying insure when you mean ensure, please folks?  (Oh, yes<BR>
the misusage of the term is now considered a secondary meaning in most,<BR>
especially American dictionaries.  Because this misusage has been so<BR>
prevalent for so long.  Many dictionaries casually institutionalize the<BR>
abuse of language, and Merriam-Webster is a major offender.  I prefer the<BR>
OED and the Random House Unabridged, neither of whom are perfect on this<BR>
count.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:10:48 -0600<BR>
From: Joseph Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Courtesy and Captial/Core (Re: TOP 4 REASONS...)<BR>
<BR>
> So I don't spellcheck:So what?<BR>
<BR>
To quote "Dear Emily Postnews" (http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html):<BR>
<BR>
<quote><BR>
<BR>
Q: I cant spell worth a dam. I hope your going too tell me what to do?<BR>
<BR>
A: Don't worry about how your articles look. Remember it's the message that<BR>
counts, not the way it's presented. Ignore the fact that sloppy spelling in<BR>
a purely written forum sends out the same silent messages that soiled<BR>
clothing would when addressing an audience.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Q: Another poster can't spell worth a damn. What should I post?<BR>
<BR>
A: Post a followup pointing out all the original author's spelling and<BR>
grammar mistakes. You were almost certainly the only one to notice them,<BR>
genius that you are, so not only will others be intrigued at your spelling<BR>
flame, but they'll get to read such fine entertainments rather than any<BR>
actual addressing of the facts or issues in the message.<BR>
<BR>
</quote><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sarcastic, but to the point. Please, folks ...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Are there any canon descriptions of the Captial/Core system during<BR>
the late 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:10:50 -0600<BR>
From: Joseph Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
>>> Sigh. Capital/Core.<BR>
> <BR>
>> But AFAIK the Landgrab was just Spinward Marches, right. And i think Core<BR>
>> has been detailed quite a bit so far. (TD 9, M:0, ..)<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey, if he wants to do it..<BR>
<BR>
Oops, I was only half paying atttention (1367 post to go through and all).<BR>
What have I gotten myself into now?<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:13:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
John Hamilton wrote:<BR>
> I'm actually not fighting cannon.T. is great<BR>
> fiction.But fiction is not supposed to hold water<BR>
> agaainst logic(why should it?If you are willing to<BR>
> accept antigrav,reaktionless thrusters and so on,a<BR>
> little unrealism in history and archeology shouldn't matter).<BR>
<BR>
    With all due respect, this sounds like the same argument<BR>
in fantasy that says: "If you're going to accept the dragon<BR>
don't choke on the gnats."<BR>
    When I play, regardless of Fantasy, Sci-Fi, etc. I shoot for<BR>
as much realism as possible. Since Grav-plates, Inertial<BR>
 Dampeners, and other such items are theoretic possibilites-<BR>
they hold realism in saying that they are "more advanced"<BR>
technology.<BR>
    The concept that researchers can walk into 300,000 year<BR>
old facilities and guess appropriately at what things are and<BR>
how they work is waay beyond suspension of disbelief.<BR>
    An attempt was made in the Traveller material to show<BR>
that they have bits and pieces, hints, but nothing concrete to<BR>
show for studies on the Ancients.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:18:45 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/16/00 3:31:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
>  <BR>
>  > >At 19:22 11.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>  > >>Loren K Wiseman wrote:<BR>
>  > >> > Right now we are considering something along the lines of a Library<BR>
>  > >> > Data file of every LD entry in canon, acessible through JTAS.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  > I am aching for that exact thing!.  Depending on price, I would buy<BR>
>  > several.  Since my house has two PCs and two laptops, it would be easy to<BR>
>  > make it available to both referee and players at the same time.  You <BR>
might<BR>
>  > want to consider password protecting different levels of knowledge in the<BR>
>  > CD as being referee only.<BR>
>  > --Laning<BR>
>  <BR>
>      Even better, allowing the referees to determine what is accessible<BR>
>  information to who with suggestions being given to us :-)<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
Already done in part. On the HIWG CD there are two-three libraries on their, <BR>
one is in HTML form, another is just the data and I believe one more is <BR>
accessible via some software put together by HIWG-UK. I think all three <BR>
reference the MT library data, one has some additions.<BR>
<BR>
The other additions needed would be date sensitive info and maybe some JAVA <BR>
code to make it multiplatform capable.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:56:28 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Laphroaig<BR>
<BR>
How - I say HOW - could you miss out the magnificent Tobermory. Even<BR>
the blue bottle looks good.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Pat<BR>
> Connaughton<BR>
> Sent: 16 March 2000 18:16<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Laphroaig<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Here! Here!<BR>
> Top Single Malts:<BR>
> 1.    Laphroaig<BR>
> 2.    Dalas Dhu (30 yr) (sp?)<BR>
> 3.    Glemorangie (25 yr)<BR>
> 4.    Lagavulan<BR>
> 5.    Abelour (15yr)<BR>
> 6.    Oban<BR>
> 7.    Balvenie<BR>
> 8.    Dalmour (sp?)<BR>
><BR>
> There are other choice possible but these are the right ones.<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:57 AM<BR>
> Subject: Laphroaig<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a<BR>
> fireplace....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > MJD<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:26:56 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Galanglic character set<BR>
<BR>
>Anybody have a font for the alien scipt in<BR>
>"Alien Nation"?<BR>
<BR>
This site offers several "Alien Fonts" taken from various TV shows and<BR>
movies:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4965/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:35:21 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Courtesy and Captial/Core (Re: TOP 4 REASONS...)<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: Are there any canon descriptions of the Captial/Core system during<BR>
the late 3I?><BR>
<BR>
As always, it depends on what you consider Canon.  I believe that<BR>
Traveller's Digest #9 covered Capital, and the palace itself gets a little<BR>
description in the MT Rebellion Sourcebook.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:06:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel writes:<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
> > requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
> > and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
> > stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
<BR>
Huh?  Capture cross section only matters for neutrons, which are a vanishingly<BR>
small portion of solar radiation.  Shielding from high energy particles <BR>
depends on what you're shielding from, you want heavy elements to shield from<BR>
gamma, light elements to shield from high energy particles.<BR>
<BR>
> > None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
> > too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
<BR>
The last time this came up there was some quote about superdense providing<BR>
some ridiculous level of shielding -- something like 100x as much as the <BR>
same thickness of steel.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nuclear dampers, perhaps, at high enough TL - definitely not TL 11,<BR>
> though. <BR>
<BR>
Nuclear dampers are irrelevant for particle shielding -- nuclear forces are<BR>
not involved in radiation (they're involved in creating the radiation, of<BR>
course -- but putting out a star is a bit of a stretch).  Given that a <BR>
starship with the minimum thickness hull can refuel from gas giants, one can<BR>
assume that issues of shielding are largely solved, at least within a thickness<BR>
equivalent to a starship's hull.  Artificial magnetic fields for ships are<BR>
the easiest option, though that has implications for sensors and ship design<BR>
which haven't been explored.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, starship hulls are not exactly thin.  Vacc suits short of <BR>
battledress are unlikely to be usefully shielded.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:21:36 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
I have often toyed with the idea of making some Atm B-C due to very low<BR>
temperatures.  Very cold atmospheres would certainly require protective<BR>
clothing, and cryogenic temperatures might be expected to defeat personal<BR>
protective gear in a number of hours (just like Atm C).  Such worlds would<BR>
add colour, reduce the number of worlds for which I need to postulate<BR>
unlikely reactive atmospheres, and might even contribute to adventure<BR>
ideas.  I would appreciate any thoughts on this idea, as well as some<BR>
advice on just how cold the atmosphere would have to be to warrent Atm B or<BR>
C.  Off the top of my head, -100 C might be sufficient for Atm B (is that a<BR>
pool of Cl?) and -250 C for Atm C (He atmosphere with H2 rain?).  Some<BR>
ideas for atmosphere composition would be appreciated.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:28:50 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Of course, rather than Atm B-C representing chemical reactivity or extreme<BR>
cold, it could be interpreted as extreme heat.  How hot should it be to<BR>
qualify as Atm B?  Atm C?  How about a 250 C H2O atmosphere?  This might be<BR>
a world worth living on in spite of the Atm B/C rating.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:35:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> >Would the various races of the 3I still<BR>
> >have lethal combat in their sports at the<BR>
> >expense of worthy warriors that could<BR>
> >fight elsewhere, or would things like<BR>
> >paint wars and gloves in boxing matches<BR>
> >seem more likely to you?<BR>
<BR>
> I was thinking of a giant, continental or planetary paint ball/pseudo-<BR>
> war game<BR>
<BR>
This sounds interesting... Care to flesh it out a bit more?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:46:45 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
On 03/17/00 at 10:07 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Yeah, but Eris...you've hit the point where the mental and chronologial<BR>
>are accelerating in opposite directions ;-P<BR>
<BR>
That's true Bruce. I won't deny it.<BR>
<BR>
Now get busy with those Akus posts you should be making. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    once I owned an orange car<BR>
    I still own my Nehru jacket<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2114<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2115<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Geezerhood<BR>
long subject: RE: Ortillery danger zone (was: Marines are Tough) Subject: Re: Marines...<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Capital/Core<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
RE: Military types vs 7th graders  TML # 2083<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Massive firepower<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: The Welsh are Tough<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Courtesy and Captial/Core (Re: TOP 4 REASONS...)<BR>
End the War<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:49:27 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
On 03/17/00 at 12:45 PM,  "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I'll be 49 in October. <BR>
<BR>
<sigh> If the creeks don't rise, I'll beat you there. <BR>
<BR>
>Looking forward to the big 5-0h. <BR>
<BR>
I was hoping to spend my 50th birthday on the moon. ;-<<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    I don't think I'm the oldest here<BR>
    I just feel that way<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:55:01 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: long subject: RE: Ortillery danger zone (was: Marines are Tough) Subject: Re: Marines...<BR>
<BR>
Aaaak!  Sorry about the outrageous subject line.  I don't know how I did that.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:04:24 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
> The new Kevlar vests the Rangers had in Somalia also had plates.  Maybe<BR>
> the round missed the plate and went right through the Kevlar fabric.<BR>
<BR>
I think in that instance, the plates were not being worn. They were too hot<BR>
for Somolia, especially a short day time raid, or so the Assault force<BR>
thought.<BR>
<BR>
As for the ground troops holding out, the airsupport from the little birds<BR>
counted for a whole lot.<BR>
<BR>
The one strange thing that I read in the book was how Delta troopers prefer<BR>
to be in the middle of a stree rather than up against walls. They stated<BR>
that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for very long distances for<BR>
some strange reason.<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------<BR>
"Never apologize, never explain."<BR>
                           Hunter S. Thompson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:05:18 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Capital/Core<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/17/00 1:50:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Sarcastic, but to the point. Please, folks ...<BR>
>  <BR>
>  ObTrav: Are there any canon descriptions of the Captial/Core system during<BR>
>  the late 3I?<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
In Traveller's Digest one of the first 8 issues.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:07:02 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Well met everyone,<BR>
<BR>
    It definitely looks like I am looking at T: NE, MT, or T5<BR>
at this point, then using GURPs supplements to fill in<BR>
wherever I need more material.<BR>
    With that in mind, I see some definite strong viewpoints<BR>
for both NE and MT, and have heard anxious waiting for<BR>
T5.<BR>
    Here's my next couple of questions regarding these<BR>
systems...<BR>
<BR>
For T: NE and MT...<BR>
1. What do you consider the strengths of each over the<BR>
other?<BR>
2. Have you made "house rules" to make up for the<BR>
weaknesses of your favorite of the two?<BR>
3. Which one uses the least "abstraction/symbology"?<BR>
<BR>
For T5...<BR>
1. Am I correct in understanding that it has not been<BR>
released and is still in the design phase? If so, when<BR>
is it due for release?<BR>
2. Is T5 going to be based on one of the previously<BR>
released rules systems, or is it a completely new<BR>
system in itself?<BR>
3. Is T5 going to be using previously released, or new,<BR>
histories/timelines?<BR>
4. What are some of the intended/expected strengths<BR>
of T5 over the previously released systems?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks- you're all being really helpful in answering all<BR>
of these questions for me :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:15:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Military types vs 7th graders  TML # 2083<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Eric T. Holmes<BR>
Fellow TMLers:<BR>
After writing USAF Regulations for two years, I can tell you from<BR>
experience that this college educated SOB had to dumb down<BR>
the regs to fourth and fifth grade level.<BR>
New York Times articles are at fifth grade level, and this <BR>
was considered too advanced for regulations.  <BR>
If I was writing for officers, I had to dumb down to ninth grade <BR>
reading level.<BR>
What can I say!<BR>
<BR>
Eric,<BR>
I may be falling into a well laid monkey-trap here, "but" public writing is<BR>
not "dumbed-down" because American reading skills are at an all time low<BR>
since the 19th century. (While true, this is beside the point.) It is<BR>
because writing in a simpler style makes it easier on the reader to grasp<BR>
complex ideas.  The idea is if you don't make it a chore for the reader,<BR>
then he may finish what you have written; if you have also led the reader by<BR>
the nose -down the garden path- the easier it is to slay your reader with<BR>
your killer ideas.<BR>
Abel <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:11:36 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> I designed it as a juvenille game because I'm not sure if K'Kree adults<BR>
> would go in for professional sports.  The only K'kree who would be allowed<BR>
> to play R!koogh G'naak would be those who have warrior potential, and when<BR>
> they're adults, they're out playing the game with real carnivores (and<BR>
> unrepentant omnivores) instead of melons.<BR>
> On the other hoof, it might serve as a suitable pastime for troops on<BR>
> garrison or in transit (remember that K'Kree ships are just big fields on<BR>
> the inside, suitable for a game).  In that case there might be specialized<BR>
> equipment for it, like the electromagnets in the post idea or the more<BR>
> durable melon.<BR>
<BR>
    This is a great work in progress I think. Glenn's ideas seemed to<BR>
have some really useful work behind them as well, albeit blades and<BR>
flea collars for the Aslan don't jive too well ;-)<BR>
    I did note that it appears several people are following this thread,<BR>
any of you care to add some of your thoughts to other games by the<BR>
different races?<BR>
    On a similar note, we see variations of basketball in the series<BR>
Battlestar Galactica, Combat Hockey (I think) in Rollerball, and quite<BR>
a few other types of shows where real world sports are varied in the<BR>
far future. Anybody have cool ideas on these ends?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:20:09 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
Hey Everyone,<BR>
<BR>
    Not trying to step in as a monitor, but these<BR>
arguments about John Hamilton's inability to adapt<BR>
to netiquette, spelling/grammar problems, and odd<BR>
notions on archaeology vs. the Ancients are labelled<BR>
under three different headings and are generally<BR>
useless to the TML.<BR>
    Can you guys either a) Ignore John and just post<BR>
your great "other" content for us, b) Draw these<BR>
arguments directly back into Traveller, or c) At least<BR>
name them all the same thread so that they can be<BR>
ignored?<BR>
    I can hardly complain about OTP's and generally<BR>
don't since I am as guilty of them as the next guy and<BR>
they do add to the social atmosphere of the list, but<BR>
these seem to be detracting from it instead of adding.<BR>
    No offense meant to anyone, just my thoughts/hopes<BR>
on the matter.<BR>
<BR>
    Just a side-note, John- quit defending yourself, you<BR>
do it poorly. Post your ideas and just ignore everything<BR>
that you don't like in response.<BR>
    You have some cool ideas, but they are sooo lost in<BR>
your arguments and the spelling/grammar that one has<BR>
to dig to find them.<BR>
<BR>
    This is going to be my only direct post on this subject,<BR>
but I do want to say that the mail on this list is pretty high<BR>
and deleting some 100 posts on one's inability to spell<BR>
is somewhat bothersome.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:26:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, Auitawry is a Red Zone, and Ayldern is an Amber <BR>
>Zone, so they don't get many  visitors.  I've always wondered <BR>
>what was gong up there, especially on Auitawry.  Any <BR>
>speculations?<BR>
<BR>
You don't tug on Grandfather's wing<BR>
You don't look at jumpspace close<BR>
You don't wake dead Cthulhu from his ages long sleep<BR>
and you don't mess around with the Droyne<BR>
<BR>
(Homage to Jim Croce)<BR>
<BR>
I assume that the Droyne are doing things that the other races<BR>
are not meant to know, and that these things keep the universe<BR>
in existence, and the lurkers on the other side of the<BR>
threshhold. <BR>
<BR>
The worlds where these activities occur are interdicted because<BR>
the Droyne have convinced the Imperial authorities that they<BR>
need solitude to achieve this purpose.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:27:25 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
The Vargr, with their love of gaudy colors and larger-than-life heroes,<BR>
would be into professional wrestling all the way.  Teeth and claws could be<BR>
illegal (but commonly used, the same way you see wrestlers banging each<BR>
other with chairs), and the rings would probably be large enough to allow a<BR>
little sprinting.  <BR>
Probably their favorite variation would be "last man standing", where an<BR>
entire pack of Vargr enter the ring and the winner is the one who can<BR>
dominate all the others (with the Vargr love of charisma and dominance<BR>
games).  It would probably be just as scripted as today's professional<BR>
wrestling matches, with clear heroes and villans.  It might not have too<BR>
much adventure appeal, but it's definitely something I can picture the Vargr<BR>
doing.    <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:34:05 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Massive firepower<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
>Don't have the precise reference but the first instance I am aware of =<BR>
in the=20<BR>
>US Army was a regiment of mounted infantry in the ACW that were =<BR>
equipped with=20<BR>
>lever-action Henry repeaters (described by one observer as "the =<BR>
damyankee gun=20<BR>
>that you load on Sunday and fire the rest of the week") at the =<BR>
colonel's=20<BR>
>expense. IIRC they were first blooded at Chicamauga (sic?), where the=20<BR>
>Confederates reported encountering a division based on the hail of =<BR>
bullets=20<BR>
>they encountered.=20<BR>
<BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
<delurk mode on><BR>
<BR>
Hi guys, just recently subscribed to this list. Glad to find other folks =<BR>
debating the canon--back in the days I was an active player, I was the =<BR>
'history buff' and had nobody to argue with.<BR>
<BR>
Since I couldn't miss the opportunity to respond to a post about one of =<BR>
my other obsessions, the ACW (and from Loren, no less), here's the =<BR>
relevant info:<BR>
<BR>
Just before the battle of Chickamauga, a Union colonel, John T. Wilder, =<BR>
equipped his cavalry brigade with seven-shot Spencer carbines (if you've =<BR>
seen the movie "Unforgiven," this was the weapon Morgan Freeman was a =<BR>
good shot with and Clint Eastwood wasn't. Considering how inaccurate and =<BR>
relatively low-penetration the weapon was, Freeman must of had =<BR>
significant levels of rifle skill.) Wilder's brigade was the first unit =<BR>
in the *West* (i.e., between the Alleghenies and the Mississippi) to be =<BR>
so equipped, and this was only because Wilder personally signed off on a =<BR>
loan and his troopers agreed to pay deductions. Wilder's brigade soon =<BR>
startled the Confederates by their combination of speed and firepower =<BR>
and were dubbed the "Lightening Brigade." However, the Spencer was in =<BR>
use in other places earlier; Buford's division at Gettysburg were also =<BR>
equipped with them, which is why two brigades of dismounted cavalry held =<BR>
off parts of two Confederate divisions for several hours. By the time of =<BR>
Sherman's march through Georgia, many of his soldiers were armed with =<BR>
the rimfire Henry rifle, predecessor of the Winchester.<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV: What are the effects on morale by the introduction by one side =<BR>
of a new, higher TL during a war?<BR>
<BR>
Also, does anyone know of/have electronic copies of canonical Solomani =<BR>
sectors? I'm putting together a database of all the Trav sectors I can =<BR>
lay my hands on (for Mileau 1100) and the Aldebaran sector I downloaded =<BR>
from CORE doesn't have Home listed in it.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
<DIV>&gt;Don't have the precise reference but the first instance I am =<BR>
aware of=20<BR>
in the <BR>
&gt;US Army was a regiment of mounted infantry in the ACW =that were=20equipped with <BR>
&gt;lever-action Henry repeaters (described by one =observer as=20&quot;the damyankee gun <BR>
&gt;that you load on Sunday and fire the =rest of the=20week&quot;) at the colonel's <BR>
&gt;expense. IIRC they were first =blooded at=20Chicamauga (sic?), where the <BR>
&gt;Confederates reported encountering =a=20division based on the hail of bullets <BR>
&gt;they encountered.=20<BR>
<BR>
&gt;LKW</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&lt;delurk mode on&gt;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Hi guys, just recently subscribed to this list. Glad to find other = folks=20 debating the canon--back in the days I was an active player, I was the ='history=20buff' and had nobody to argue with.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Since I couldn't miss the opportunity to respond to a post about = one of my=20 other obsessions, the ACW (and from Loren, no less), here's the relevant =info:</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Just before the battle of Chickamauga, a Union colonel, John T. = Wilder,=20 equipped his cavalry brigade with seven-shot Spencer carbines (if you've = seen=20 the movie &quot;Unforgiven,&quot; this was the weapon Morgan Freeman was = a good=20 shot with and Clint Eastwood wasn't. Considering how inaccurate and = relatively=20 low-penetration the weapon was, Freeman must of had significant levels = of rifle=20 skill.) Wilder's brigade was the first unit in the *West* (i.e., between = the=20 Alleghenies and the Mississippi) to be so equipped, and this was only = because=20 Wilder personally signed off on a loan and his troopers agreed to pay=20 deductions. Wilder's brigade soon startled the Confederates by their = combination=20 of speed and firepower and were dubbed the &quot;Lightening = Brigade.&quot;=20 However, the Spencer was in use in other places earlier; Buford's = division at=20 Gettysburg were also equipped with them, which is why two brigades of = dismounted=20 cavalry held off parts of two Confederate divisions for several hours. = By the=20 time of Sherman's march through Georgia, many of his soldiers were armed =with=20the rimfire Henry rifle, predecessor of the Winchester.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>OBTRAV: What are the effects on morale by the introduction by one = side of a=20 new, higher TL during a war?</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Also, does anyone know of/have electronic copies of canonical = Solomani=20 sectors? I'm putting together a database of all the Trav sectors I can = lay my=20 hands on (for Mileau 1100) and the Aldebaran sector I downloaded from = CORE=20 doesn't have Home listed in it.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Fred Ramen</DIV><BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:32:41 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
On 03/17/00 at 09:49 AM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Out that way, he'd probably never heard the slogan of the United Negro<BR>
>College Fund:<BR>
<BR>
>"A mind is a terrible thing to waste."<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't it Eddie Murphy that mutated that in a skit on SNL into <BR>
<BR>
"A mind is a terrible thing."<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:31:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
<BR>
    Just out of curiosity, would you think that the Vargr<BR>
have developed this sport on their own, or is it more<BR>
likely that they adapted it from us?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:38:40 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: The Welsh are Tough<BR>
<BR>
On 03/17/00 at 07:21 PM,  "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> said:<BR>
<BR>
>So it's the American equivalent of Rourkes Drift...<BR>
<BR>
I think it was reported here more like Gordon at Khartoum.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:47:42 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
>     This is a great work in progress I think. Glenn's ideas seemed to<BR>
> have some really useful work behind them as well, albeit blades and<BR>
> flea collars for the Aslan don't jive too well ;-)<BR>
>     I did note that it appears several people are following this thread,<BR>
> any of you care to add some of your thoughts to other games by the<BR>
> different races?<BR>
<BR>
There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
>     On a similar note, we see variations of basketball in the series<BR>
> Battlestar Galactica, Combat Hockey (I think) in Rollerball<BR>
<BR>
After watching that incident a few weeks ago when one player  smacked<BR>
another upside the head with his stick, I'd have to classify Hockey asd<BR>
'Combat Hockey' right now.<BR>
<BR>
This came up a while back on the list; some people came up with<BR>
references to some books, notably one called 'Killerball' ('Killerbowl'<BR>
perhaps?) which was football with a combat motif. (The playing field is<BR>
a part of a city, and one player on each side is an 'Assasin'; he gets<BR>
to hide out with a single shot rifle and one bullet and, well, even the<BR>
odds once per game) <BR>
<BR>
The thread immediately degenerated into comparisons between American and<BR>
Aussie football, rugby, and just who was tougher, and _that_ went on to<BR>
the _next_ logical subject, _beer_, but that's to be expected around<BR>
here ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Did someone say beer?<BR>
<BR>
Why, I don't mind if I do!<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Glenn, thanks for the mention of the Red Tail Ale<BR>
yesterday...picked up a six of Black Hawk Stout on the way home last<BR>
night. Quite nice, indeed! Yum! ;-) <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:56:47 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> wrote<BR>
[in two messages I have consolidated]<BR>
<BR>
> I have often toyed with the idea of making some Atm B-C due to very low<BR>
> temperatures. I would appreciate some<BR>
> advice on just how cold the atmosphere would have to be to warrent Atm B or<BR>
> C.  Off the top of my head, -100 C might be sufficient for Atm B (is that a<BR>
> pool of Cl?) and -250 C for Atm C (He atmosphere with H2 rain?).  Some<BR>
> ideas for atmosphere composition would be appreciated.<BR>
> Of course, rather than Atm B-C representing chemical reactivity or extreme<BR>
> cold, it could be interpreted as extreme heat.  How hot should it be to<BR>
> qualify as Atm B?  Atm C?  How about a 250 C H2O atmosphere?  This might be<BR>
> a world worth living on in spite of the Atm B/C rating.<BR>
<BR>
You need to check out Special Supplement 2: Atmospheres - by<BR>
J Andrew Keith, developed by Loren Wiseman & Marc Miller<BR>
[copyright 1983 by GDW, now copyright by Far Future Ent..]<BR>
[which was originally a supplement in JTAS #17 presumably<BR>
Marc will reprint it when he reprints JTAS].<BR>
<BR>
It covers Exotic, Corrosive, and Insidious Atmospheres.<BR>
<BR>
By its definitions Exotic atmospheres will not have a<BR>
fairly normal temperature & pressure range. Its discussion<BR>
of exotic atmospheres includes lists of various chemical<BR>
compositions which (in higher concentration and/or at unusual<BR>
temperatures) might be found in Corrosive Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Corrosive Atmosphere Table (2d6)<BR>
2 	Extreme Low Temperature<BR>
3	Very Thin, Low Temperature<BR>
4	Very Thin, Moderate Temperature<BR>
5	Very Thin, High Temperature<BR>
6	Thin/Standard/Dense [TSD], Low Temperature<BR>
7	TSD, Moderate Temperature<BR>
8	TSD, High Temperature<BR>
9	Very Dense, Low Temperature<BR>
10	Very Dense, Moderate Temperature<BR>
11	Very Dense, High Temperature<BR>
12	Extreme High Temperature<BR>
<BR>
Definitions<BR>
Low Temperature -25 to -200 C<BR>
High Temperature 50+ C<BR>
Extreme temperatures are at the upper and lower ends of the<BR>
temperature scale<BR>
<BR>
For Insidious atmospheres it suggest similar to<BR>
Corrosive but more so, and/or containing free Hydrogen,<BR>
Extreme Temperature (Venus) or high Radiation levels.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:00:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
> For T5...<BR>
> 1. Am I correct in understanding that it has not been<BR>
> released and is still in the design phase? If so, when<BR>
> is it due for release?<BR>
<BR>
It appears to be in a phase of "purposeful slippage" due to the popularity<BR>
of GT.  Sell no wine, er... game, before its time.  Marc is doing the main<BR>
book and the milieu himself.<BR>
<BR>
> 2. Is T5 going to be based on one of the previously<BR>
> released rules systems, or is it a completely new<BR>
> system in itself?<BR>
<BR>
Some T4.1 (Chargen), some new (Life Persuits) and some blended (exp. pts.).<BR>
<BR>
> 3. Is T5 going to be using previously released, or new,<BR>
> histories/timelines?<BR>
<BR>
M: 200 - Antares sector just after the Julian War and the death of Martin I.<BR>
The Julian Protectorate/League of Antares and the Imperium have a peace<BR>
treaty.  The Julian Prot. is an interesting mix of Vargr and Human states.<BR>
<BR>
> 4. What are some of the intended/expected strengths<BR>
> of T5 over the previously released systems?<BR>
<BR>
We need to insist that the strengths include our input, thoughtful playtest<BR>
and excellent editing.  Notice that these are dependent more on the current<BR>
Traveller community than on some fly-by-night game company.  Any questions?<BR>
<BR>
> Thanks- you're all being really helpful in answering all<BR>
> of these questions for me :-)<BR>
<BR>
Either that or [1]we're trying to lord our superior Traveller knowledge over<BR>
you while correcting your grammar, take your pick.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
[1] Caution: sarcasm in use.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:05:30 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it's just an outgrowth of the natural dominance games every Vargr<BR>
plays, so it could be an entirely Vargr invention.  On the other paw, they<BR>
probably did borrow scripting and the soap opera-style plots from our own<BR>
version (although I would love to defend the idea that there is no<BR>
professional wrestling in future human cultures, I doubt that this will be<BR>
the case).<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jesse LaBranche [mailto:Vanquer@email.msn.com]<BR>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 3:31 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
<BR>
    Just out of curiosity, would you think that the Vargr<BR>
have developed this sport on their own, or is it more<BR>
likely that they adapted it from us?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:03:40 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Courtesy and Captial/Core (Re: TOP 4 REASONS...)<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: Are there any canon descriptions of the Captial/Core system during<BR>
>the late 3I?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There are in Travellers Digest 9 (Capital Issue). It has descriptions of <BR>
the Palace, the Imperial Family and even has 2 adventures set on Capital.<BR>
<BR>
A lot of the info in M:0 can also be adapted, i think, but the TD 9 is the <BR>
best source<BR>
<BR>
Sadly it is out of Print and <BR>
"He-whose-name-shall-not-be-mentioned-without-spitting" doesnt plan on <BR>
reprinting those nice DGP items, so finding one may be the hardest part of <BR>
your job. (No, you cant have it, its mine, all mine)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:57:52 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: End the War<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>That's the only one you spotted?<BR>
<BR>
Just let the thread die, ok?<BR>
Its distracting everybody from what we are really here for.<BR>
Lets all just loose our attitudes, and start over. Ok now, be friendly and <BR>
shake hands everybody.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2115<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2116<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Frogs in Space<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: 307 Ale<BR>
Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
RE: Laphroaig<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
RE: Geezerhood<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
RE: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: Military types vs 7th graders  TML # 2083<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:24:53 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Frogs in Space<BR>
<BR>
Well, I found the Smily Face<BR>
<BR>
http://www.msss.com/education/happy_face/smile.gif<BR>
<BR>
Keep seeing various references to Kermit but can't find an image yet<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:11:34 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:55:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
> <BR>
> Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
> > that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest introduction.<BR>
> <BR>
> It depends on how much 'magic tech' you want.  Realistically, shielding from<BR>
> a solar flare requires the equivalent of a meter or more of steel, which<BR>
> isn't practical on a vacc suit at all (SD and bonded SD have a functionally<BR>
> 'magic' level of radiation shielding; battledress and powered armor might<BR>
> allow surviving a solar flare, though it would be unhealthy).<BR>
> <BR>
> Shielding in deep space depends on how long you want it for.  At high tech,<BR>
> anything other than a skinsuit will probably protect against the low<BR>
> penetration beta which is the most common part of solar radiation; however,<BR>
> high penetration radiation will still give doses of a couple rads an hour.<BR>
> Going out in a skinsuit, unless protected by a magnetic field, would be<BR>
> fatal in minutes.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Could you actually build such a magnetic field generator strong enough<BR>
to prevent such a painful death?<BR>
	It's not hard generate a magnetic field, I'm not sure of what strength<BR>
you would need, but given the power density of the 3I technology<BR>
(particularly in Gurps) I would not see generating such a magnetic field<BR>
being a problem. Unless it requires such a powerful magnetic field it<BR>
causes bad physiological effects. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:56:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
>> Well over here it's AluminIUM, but otherwise, yes, it is LanthanUM.<BR>
><BR>
> Differences between British and American English. I would claim that in<BR>
> British English, it is spelled "Lanthanium."<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't matter. The elements have *official* names, regardless of<BR>
language. "Local" spelling are not found in technical papers. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:58:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:26:26   Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> One thing they worked out real quick... when the Vilani asked them where <BR>
>>> they were from, they didn't tell them.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I guess you (and they) never read Murray Leinster's *classic* First<BR>
>>Contact story. He points out a few "problems" with meeting aliens in<BR>
>>deep space, rather than on worlds belonging to either of you.<BR>
><BR>
> No... I haven't, do you know the name of the story? I would be interested in <BR>
> reading it!<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure. It's been *years* and much of my library is inaccessible.<BR>
I think it may actually have been titled "First Contact".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:04:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'Parahumans' and heretical Solomani<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> For example, Vilani might have a "Type C" blood type that is common<BR>
>> among them. Say they have Type B and Type C, but not type A. So Vilani<BR>
>> blood types would be B[1], BC, C, and O. So type C & BC blood would be<BR>
>> proof of Vilani ancestry, types A & AB blood type would be proof of<BR>
>> Solomani ancestry,<BR>
><BR>
> Damn.... ABneg I am.... Least I look good in black.<BR>
<BR>
Since the Vilna also have type B, you *could* have Vilani ancestors.<BR>
You just couldn't *prove* it. The Type A part of A *guarantees*<BR>
Solomani ancestry (at least in this limited, hypothetical scenario).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:16:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
Thom Jones-Low writes:<BR>
<BR>
>      Could you actually build such a magnetic field generator strong enough<BR>
> to prevent such a painful death?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know the exact energy requirements, but the magnetic field intensity<BR>
required  is inversely proportional to the actual size of the field; a<BR>
man-sized shield would probably require hundreds of tesla, and would have all<BR>
kinds of strange effects on nearby objects.  A space station can have a <BR>
considerably larger field, and doesn't need nearly as high intensities in<BR>
any case, so required field strength could be much lower.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:05:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 307 Ale<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:09 PM 12/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>>where do you think Scouts Brew comes from!<BR>
><BR>
> BTW, 307 Ale is a song by Tom Smith..<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/307ale.htm<BR>
<BR>
Yeah... And the "307" is the *proof* rating of the stuff!<BR>
153.5% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
Translating some of the details to Traveller, somebody had a still on<BR>
the hull of their ship. And didn't shut it down while in jump. Funny<BR>
things happen that close to the jump bubble... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:15:38 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Single malt scotch debates (was Re: Laphroaig)<BR>
<BR>
	I was under the impression that it's not so much the brand of<BR>
scotch that matters so much as what you managed to pull from the flaming<BR>
ruins of your neighbour's house after you and your brothers and cousins<BR>
smashed the bottle open with a claymore, chugged it down in a go and set<BR>
off to commit a little arson, looting, and pillaging.<BR>
<BR>
	Call me a traditionalist, I guess.  Oh well.<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:58:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
<BR>
Definitely.  That's going straight into my Traveller universe:  <BR>
<BR>
Jesedipere again, sophs, standing in rain pouring like out of a<BR>
hose, and nothing to do but wait for red tape to be cut for our<BR>
cargo to cross the extrality line, smoking a bad-smelling local<BR>
plant and talking: Startown, I guess, engage a companion, any<BR>
bed's better'n a stateroom?, and, tanjit not Jesedipere Startown<BR>
too damned depressing with all the Vargr refugees maybe I'll<BR>
just become a damned tourist, and then Rrafgraghz comes trotting<BR>
up just like a big dog with that goofy Vargr grin, and holds up<BR>
his hand, showing us a lot of shiny paper.  Tickets, Vargr<BR>
Wrestling, in the public arena downtown, scrounged em from a<BR>
Navy guy cheap: who's in?<BR>
<BR>
So off we go in a gravcab, all six of us and a ticket to spare,<BR>
get to the arena, not a human or a native -- what are they<BR>
called? Llolliwollies or I don't remember, cthulhu, I've been<BR>
hitting a flask of brandeiswein Rraf' had picked up on Aramis<BR>
and we're all feeling pretty jolly anyway -- anyway, it's an all<BR>
Vargr scene at the arena, we five humans are the only non-Vargr<BR>
and Rraf' is joking that we're toasted enough to pass anyway,<BR>
and I recognize all sorts of things -- Kforuzeng patches and a<BR>
44th Squadron flag on somebody's tail and I'm wondering what<BR>
we're getting into and next thing we're into it.<BR>
<BR>
You know how the Vargr are sensitive to smell, well now I get it<BR>
- -- get it? -- 25,000 Vargr in the arena, soaked from the rain<BR>
while waiting in line, angry and happy and excited, barking and<BR>
howling, punching and shoving, but nobody gets hurt and they<BR>
mostly ignore us humans as we find our seats, right in the<BR>
middle of the swirling mass of fur and teeth, but if they'll sit<BR>
down, a pretty good view of the ring.  <BR>
<BR>
Lights down, lights up, lights down and nothing changes except<BR>
the audience gets louder; lights up again and someone has put a<BR>
big Vargr-style mug of muddy local beer in my hand and there's a<BR>
get it human get it referee get it? referee! in the middle of<BR>
the ring, which is huge, maybe three times the size of a human<BR>
martial arts ring.  Something very loud in Gvegh fills the hall<BR>
- -- great acoustics and a powerful system -- then something in<BR>
another Vargr language that I don't recognize and then Gvegh<BR>
again and eventually the crowd stops yelling at the referee and<BR>
cheering.  <BR>
<BR>
There's a big board above the ring -- holodisplay, I assume --<BR>
showing lots of information but it's all in Gvegh, even the<BR>
numbers, so I can just guess what it is, but Rraf' has a big<BR>
laser pointer with the arena logo and he's pointing it at the<BR>
board, and the smoke -- what the hell I'm lighting up too where<BR>
is that local grow? -- shows lots of laser lines hitting the<BR>
display, so I assume that bets are being placed.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, after a long time and I don't remember drinking all of<BR>
that beer, but yes, thanks, I'll have another and what happened<BR>
to that brandeiswein? anyway the contestants start appearing,<BR>
smallest, weakest, and newest first, with outlandish haircuts<BR>
and colors, but generally no clothes, fists taped and elaborate<BR>
guards on the nail-claws, but mouths open and if they lose<BR>
teeth, they can just replace them I suppose.  Lots of<BR>
contestants, did I tell you, about fifty of them, everyone<BR>
announced for a long time in Gvegh and two other languages and<BR>
met with cheers jeers and sometimes beer mugs from the audience.<BR>
<BR>
After being announced, each one takes a preset position, based<BR>
I'm thinking on charisma.  Certainly the bigbads are in the<BR>
middle and the small weak new are around the edges, with the<BR>
middle class in the middle.  The human referee walks around<BR>
checking everyone's position and as the cheers for the last and<BR>
obviously most able contender fade -- Mr. Big Bad, I call him,<BR>
and he is -- referee walks out of the ring and makes an<BR>
announcement in Galanglic that is totally drowned out by the<BR>
simultaneous translation into Gvegh, and then followed by the<BR>
other languages, themselves drowned out by the cheers and roars<BR>
of the 25,000 now even drunker and more excited Vargr, and even<BR>
Rraf' is standing on his chair and waving his arms and howling.<BR>
<BR>
Then the referee counts and I can understand the Gvegh: "on one:<BR>
five, four, three, two, one" and the wrestlers actually wait for<BR>
it before they all move at once.  It's just a furry blur down<BR>
there, and I have to stand up, too, although now I'm potted from<BR>
the local brew and am weaving a bit on my feet, I still have to<BR>
stand on my chair to see, because everyone else is, and the<BR>
bigger contestants are throwing the smaller bodily out of the<BR>
ring, into the pads around, but one gets tossed all the way into<BR>
the stands, where an immediate scuffle breaks out and lasts<BR>
until he gets back onto the pads around the ring again.  On the<BR>
pads, the early losers sulk in loser postures and avoid being<BR>
landed on by the next ones to be thrown out.  <BR>
<BR>
Some push, some throw, some twist and do judo moves, but many<BR>
get knocked out of the ring and fall to the pads below.  The<BR>
fall may be only one meter if they got shoved through the ropes,<BR>
but I saw a few get thrown right over the top rope, doubling the<BR>
fall -- but no serious injuries.<BR>
<BR>
After about ten minutes, there are only about ten Vargr left in<BR>
the ring, three locked together in a crazy circular scramble,<BR>
with another thumping each them from behind with an open hand,<BR>
and the others one on one trying to get each other out.  Rraf'<BR>
is jumping up and down and screaming so I guess his money is on<BR>
a real contender, and the Skip is laughing so hard that he's<BR>
almost crying, and poor Prithapon, the new engineer's mate,<BR>
obviously doesn't know what to make of her officers, but is<BR>
smiling gamely and trying to avoid getting hit by her too<BR>
exuberant neigbors.  Beer and other liquids have spilled all<BR>
over us and everyone else and at least I can drop my clothes in<BR>
the laundry but these poor Vargr have to wash their fur until it<BR>
smells better -- and poor is right -- most of these look to be<BR>
refugees from Gvurrdon subsector, some are maybe deserters, and<BR>
I can see a few who look like locals in dress at least.  <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, the action:  The cluster of three breaks up and they all<BR>
grab the one who'd been pestering them from behind and together<BR>
swing him once, twice, three times and he's out of the ring,<BR>
over the ropes, past the pads, and into the stands, where he<BR>
doesn't move and someone pours beer over him until he gets up<BR>
and slinks off.  Meanwhile, some of the one on ones have<BR>
concluded and the remaining five or six all lie down and try to<BR>
push each other and stay in the center.  They're panting,<BR>
nipping with their teeth, thumping with open palms, scrambling<BR>
with their footclaws, tails wagging or lying flat, ears back,<BR>
and the whole group is edging toward one edge and suddenly the<BR>
one who's about to be pushed off -- Red Fur, I call him -- lets<BR>
go and jumps up and over the group, and one who was next to him<BR>
slips under the rope and hits the mat - splat -  and he's out<BR>
and they all go after the one who jumped, but the one who was<BR>
suckered is jumping up and down and screaming and trying to<BR>
climb back up but some of the losers on the pads grab him and<BR>
hold him down.<BR>
<BR>
The others go into a standing and falling melee for a while, and<BR>
end up on the ropes, just crushing one Vargr with blue fur<BR>
against the ropes until he stops struggling, and then the big<BR>
bad who had started in the center grabs him and throws him out<BR>
and down -- wham! -- to the pad below, and there is a great<BR>
cheer from the audience, me, too, cthulhu I'm just bellowing<BR>
what was in that beer? -- but as Mr. Big Bad starts stomping<BR>
around the ring accepting the cheers, two of the others rush him<BR>
from behind and try to lift him to their shoulders.  He's too<BR>
smart for that, just goes slack and they drop him, but he takes<BR>
one down with him, holding his head and -- wham! -- they hit the<BR>
ring hard and the audience goes even more crazy and just then<BR>
the last one -- Red Fur -- pushes the one who was still standing<BR>
right to the ropes and through and then there's only three, Mr.<BR>
Big Bad, Red Fur and Number Three.<BR>
<BR>
Rraf' is hoarse from cheering, and I wonder if he bet on Mr. Big<BR>
Bad or against, and I'm accepting another beer from the autovend<BR>
that floats by but not paying attention because the scene in the<BR>
ring has me.  The three have each other in headlocks and they're<BR>
trying to get to the edge of the ring and not the be one who<BR>
gets pushed off. All of the losers on the pads are jumping up<BR>
and down and howling and making rude signs that even I recognize<BR>
and then Red Fur slips out of Mr. Big Bad's grip and pulls Mr.<BR>
Big Bad down.  Number Three has a headlock on Mr. Big Bad and<BR>
goes over with him, but doesn't let go.  Red Fur jumps up in the<BR>
air and comes down hands first on Mr. Big Bad's midsection and<BR>
Mr. Big Bad stops struggling for a second -- just long enough<BR>
for Number Three to swing him around, both still on the ground,<BR>
and send him over the edge.  Mr. Big Bad hasn't let go, so<BR>
Number Three has to grab the rope to keep from going with him,<BR>
but Red Fur comes up from behind and slams into Number Three,<BR>
sending both Number Three and Mr. Big Bad out of the ring and<BR>
into the pad -- triggering an immediate all-out brawl in the<BR>
audience, as the spectators closest to the ring rush it all at<BR>
once.  <BR>
<BR>
It's less dangerous up by our seats, but we all get knocked down<BR>
and eventually find our way out of there.  Rraf' had bet on Red<BR>
Fur and so he took us to this Vargr bar he knows and wouldn't<BR>
let us stop drinking but eventually he gave all of his winnings<BR>
to an organization for displaced Vargr.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:00:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
>Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
>> How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
>    Just out of curiosity, would you think that the Vargr have <BR>
>developed this sport on their own, or is it more likely that <BR>
>they adapted it from us?<BR>
<BR>
In my Traveller universe, most people believe that the Vargr<BR>
developed it first, and the Terrans adopted it.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:02:22 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>BTW, Glenn, thanks for the mention of the Red Tail Ale<BR>
>yesterday...picked up a six of Black Hawk Stout on the way home<BR>
<BR>
>last night. Quite nice, indeed! Yum! ;-) <BR>
<BR>
Glad you liked it.  How were Prithapon and Olga?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:08:46 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Laphroaig<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Mark Preston<BR>
> <BR>
> How - I say HOW - could you miss out the magnificent Tobermory. Even<BR>
> the blue bottle looks good.<BR>
<BR>
Tobermory ? <BR>
That's one of the Wombles from Wimbledon Common isn't it ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:10:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Uuhhh, I don't think you can go over a 100% of anything.....The proof could<BR>
be as high as 200 making it 100% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:09 PM 12/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>>where do you think Scouts Brew comes from!<BR>
><BR>
> BTW, 307 Ale is a song by Tom Smith..<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/307ale.htm<BR>
<BR>
Yeah... And the "307" is the *proof* rating of the stuff!<BR>
153.5% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:18:01 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Geezerhood<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Thom Harris<BR>
> <BR>
> A dear friend of<BR>
> mine and I have been researching baseball caps the say "G.O.F.". <BR>
> This stands for Gnarly Old Fart!!! <BR>
<BR>
In some circles it also stands for "Gang of Four"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:34:48 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
On 03/17/00 at 03:58 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>>>I guess you (and they) never read Murray Leinster's *classic* First<BR>
>>>Contact story. He points out a few "problems" with meeting aliens in<BR>
>>>deep space, rather than on worlds belonging to either of you.<BR>
<BR>
>> No... I haven't, do you know the name of the story? I would be interested in <BR>
>> reading it!<BR>
<BR>
>I'm not sure. It's been *years* and much of my library is inaccessible. I<BR>
>think it may actually have been titled "First Contact".<BR>
<BR>
There was a story titled "First Contact", and I think it was by Murray Leinster. <BR>
<BR>
I think I remember that part of the problem was figuring out a way to not give away where your own people came from.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:40:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm actually not fighting cannon.T. is great<BR>
> fiction.But fiction is not supposed to hold water<BR>
> agaainst logic(why should it?If you are willing to<BR>
> accept antigrav,reaktionless thrusters and so on,a<BR>
> little unrealism in history and archeology shouldn't matter).<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but the whole *point* of Science Fiction being seperate from<BR>
Fantasy is that in SF the internal logic *must* be consistent. Some<BR>
fantasy (often called "hard fantasy" by analogy to "hard SF") follows<BR>
this rule.<BR>
<BR>
But in addition, SF must also be consistent with known science, except<BR>
in the case of *limited* changes/extrapolations.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 22:16, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > Thu following wsw run thrum a sepulchers automatically an straight<BR>
> > form me to yuan.  What I really wanted to type was, "The following<BR>
> > was run through a spellchecker automatically and straight from me to<BR>
> > you."  You can see the hash the spellchecker made of it.  <g><BR>
> <BR>
> You're either, er, tellling fibs, or have an _extremely_ bad spell checker<BR>
> that should never have been released to the public.<BR>
> <BR>
> How can any spellchecker generate words that don't exist ?<BR>
> (Such as "Thu" "wsw" "thrum" & "yuan" )<BR>
<BR>
But "thrum" does, as does "yuan". To thrum is to pluck at strings on <BR>
a harp or similar instrument. "Yuan" is the transliteration (I think <BR>
that's the word I want) of a chinese word.<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 9:38, Dave Strebe wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <lurk mode off><tongue in cheek mode on><BR>
> <BR>
> Hey Doug look a reply from John with no spelling errors!!!<BR>
> and even some long words (maybe he found where <BR>
> the spellchecker button was? )<BR>
> <BR>
> <tongue in cheek mode off><lurk mode on><BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 9:16 AM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > I was referring to the Ancients;during the A.<BR>
> > period,they were the  same(more or less,since the<BR>
> > Droyne were somewhat as subjects)<BR>
> <BR>
> > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is from the<BR>
> > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features a<BR>
> > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but that was<BR>
> > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried to<BR>
> > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> > withit.It survived till it was replaced with christianity.<BR>
<BR>
Pity about the weird comma placement and the lack of spaces after some <BR>
full-stops.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 20:10, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > BTW, I trust that you all realize that the only reason we at AuricTech<BR>
> > designed the MONTANA-class battleship with a Streamlined Hypersonic<BR>
> > hullform was to allow gas giant refueling, IAW FF&S2, page 16.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > However, we are willing to pay a MCr 1 prize to the first captain of a<BR>
> > MONTANA-class battleship to fly low-level hypersonic in the atmosphere<BR>
> > of a TL-13 or higher, Pop 9 or higher world with operational ground<BR>
> > defenses.<BR>
> <BR>
> Does it count if the world is on their side? Or does the flight have to<BR>
> occur over enemy territory?<BR>
<BR>
It may not be friendly territory for very long if you persist in that <BR>
sort of behaviour.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 8:55, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 2. Your grammar and spelling are so bad as to render your posts unreadable<BR>
> gibberish. We use English here, with American style usage as the default.<BR>
> Failure to follow that standard for communication results in you being<BR>
> seen as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
<BR>
You mean that all this time you Yanks have been only pretending to take <BR>
us ex-Brits (and the Poms) seriously you've been calling us idiots <BR>
behind our backs? Typical.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 16:05, Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I suppose it's just an outgrowth of the natural dominance games every<BR>
> Vargr plays, so it could be an entirely Vargr invention.  On the other<BR>
> paw, they probably did borrow scripting and the soap opera-style plots<BR>
> from our own version (although I would love to defend the idea that there<BR>
> is no professional wrestling in future human cultures, I doubt that this<BR>
> will be the case).<BR>
<BR>
That's easy - as the OTU is not about Yanks in Space it is about the <BR>
British Empire in Space, and thus there are Pugilists, but not Pro <BR>
Wrestlers. QED.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 2:55, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > On 16 Mar 00, at 10:23, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > The problem lies more with rather dull people who<BR>
> > on<BR>
> > > the other hand think that they are very clever but<BR>
> > are<BR>
> > > unable to understand anything that isn't served on<BR>
> > a<BR>
> > > tablet to them.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Here we are prestented with the reason for the bad<BR>
> > punctuation - <BR>
> > "served on a tablet..." this suggests to me someone<BR>
> > who is used to <BR>
> > using a wax tablet for writing <BR>
> <BR>
> And since you are resorting to silly comparisons,it is<BR>
> clear that my statement is right.<BR>
<BR>
That's good coming from someone who seems to think  that using mixed <BR>
metaphors is a sign of originality. "Served on a tablet" and "comparing <BR>
apples with peaches" are not exactly wonderful turns of phrase.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Military types vs 7th graders  TML # 2083<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 17:15, Garcia, Abel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Eric,<BR>
> I may be falling into a well laid monkey-trap here, "but" public writing<BR>
> is not "dumbed-down" because American reading skills are at an all time<BR>
> low since the 19th century. (While true, this is beside the point.) It is<BR>
> because writing in a simpler style makes it easier on the reader to grasp<BR>
> complex ideas.  The idea is if you don't make it a chore for the reader,<BR>
> then he may finish what you have written; if you have also led the reader<BR>
> by the nose -down the garden path- the easier it is to slay your reader<BR>
> with your killer ideas. Abel <BR>
<BR>
I ran into quite a bit of disapproval in a course I did a couple of <BR>
years ago on this point. While simple styles are easier to read they <BR>
don't always aid in the comprehension of complex ideas, because complex <BR>
ideas are often not straight forward. Thus they require subclauses, etc <BR>
to explain them "simply". The simple styles of writing that are in <BR>
fashion these days often IME almost double the word count to describe <BR>
some things, and aren't easier to understand, either. This makes this <BR>
sort of writing a waste of space.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2116<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 17 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2117<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the  same again<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
RE: Traveller with Alternity<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
RE: Best rules system (sorry, it's getting a bit long now)<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
RE: Ancient research<BR>
RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Friendly Fire? was 40mm to the back<BR>
Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
Re: Massive firepower<BR>
Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
Cheese and Gold<BR>
TML FAQ URL (and any other acronyms as needed)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re:  and here's what it looks like...-sorry,that's just the  same again<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 13:25, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:13 PM 3/15/00, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > Cyberpunk 2020:even more so<BR>
> ><BR>
> >But no rules for even how much modifying a vehicle would cost, let<BR>
> >alone what's reasonable. And some of the more game-changing armour (and<BR>
> >full body replacement) tech is in the Chrome books.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but that's not in the basic rules (at least not the set I've <BR>
got).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 9:27, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> wrote:<BR>
> > At 07:41 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > 1. You take every<BR>
> > dissenting opinion, no matter how it is phrased, as<BR>
> > a personal attack.<BR>
> <BR>
>  2. > Failure to follow that standard for<BR>
> communication<BR>
> > results in you being seen<BR>
> > as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well ,first attack me for insulting people,than doing<BR>
> it yourself.Fascinating:Shows which is the choice of<BR>
> what you are.<BR>
<BR>
Doug never said you are an idiot or an arsehole, merely that that's how <BR>
people will perceive you if you write your posts using a non-standard <BR>
and incomprehensible form of punctuation, etc.<BR>
 <BR>
> > <BR>
> > 3. The "debate" as you call it, has been nothing but<BR>
> > you making bizarre<BR>
> > claims <BR>
> <BR>
> In your opinion.<BR>
> <BR>
> > 4. If you had been reading this list for a year,.<BR>
> <BR>
> Which I never have claimed.But who cares about false<BR>
> facts as long as they suit his point of view?<BR>
<BR>
So how long were you on the list before your first post? I do seem to <BR>
recall you saying you lurked before you posted, but I may be mistaken.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 9:34, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Black ICE writes:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > 3.  The ship becomes a luxury suite at the Auger Inn.  AuricTech points<BR>
> > out just how much enemy firepower it took to kill the ship, even though<BR>
> > the ship was not operating IAW Imperial Naval doctrine (only a fool<BR>
> > would fly a BB atmospheric over a hostile world with operating<BR>
> > defenses), and we have a good shot of getting the contract for building<BR>
> > a replacement.  Besides, the ships that are _built_ to operate in close<BR>
> > proximity of a defended world have a good shot at knocking out defensive<BR>
> > batteries that fire to bring down the MONTANA-class BB, as they expose<BR>
> > themselves by firing.  Makes later suppression of enemy defenses easier.<BR>
> <BR>
> Since when do buried meson sites expose themselves by firing?  At that<BR>
> range you won't even have to fire up active sensors.<BR>
<BR>
I canon they dont', but a number of us have come to the conclusion that <BR>
by analysis of the shape, intensity, etc of the meson pulse as it <BR>
decays you could work out where it came from, though it'd probably take <BR>
a number of samples, especially if they're coming from multiple <BR>
sources.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Bozos in uniform (was Re: Droyne)<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 10:27, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <sigh><BR>
> <BR>
> I'd be kind of interested in finding duds like those, having a<BR>
> life-long fascination in things that burn or go "boom!". But if I<BR>
> actually *found* one, my methods would more along the lines of<BR>
> propping it up *carefully*, then retreating to a large distance, and<BR>
> asking something like: "Sarge, I found a dud over there (point at<BR>
> object 100 meters away). Is it ok to waste a few rounds from my rifle<BR>
> trying to set it off?"<BR>
<BR>
Even propping them up can be a bad idea. SOP was to place a large rock <BR>
by them, or put a long stick in the ground beside it, thus marking its <BR>
location. Then go and tell your Corporal or Sergeant who would then <BR>
inform the bomb disposal guys from Ordnance.<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller with Alternity<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 22:57, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > guns from CT<BR>
> <BR>
> Huh ?<BR>
> CT never had any guns that were specific to CT, so how can you say the<BR>
> guns in Alternity came from CT ?<BR>
<BR>
It was just the first impression we had when we saw Alternity - that <BR>
the weapons list looked very like CTs. I know it's not really, but the <BR>
mix is similar, especially when you look at the profession kits, which <BR>
generally hand out slugthrowers even though they are technically <BR>
odselete at PL7. <BR>
<BR>
> > 5 day jumps,<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm, that's not how I read it. In Alternity the jump is pretty much<BR>
> instantaneous. What takes the time is recharging the drive, and that can<BR>
> be speeded up by tech advances or a skilled engineer.<BR>
<BR>
At PL7 a Starfall takes 11^2 hours (about 5 days), at PL8 it takes 11 <BR>
hours. Tachyon recharge takes 1D4+1 days.<BR>
<BR>
> Also, in Alternity, large ships can jump _huge_ distances compared to<BR>
> smalller ships. The "Lighthouse" for instance, can cross the space betwen<BR>
> the edge and the core in about a hundredth of the time a small merchant<BR>
> can.<BR>
> <BR>
> And take along a large number of small ships with it.<BR>
<BR>
One hundreth? That must be because of its better astrogation systems, <BR>
as it only jumps 50 LY per jump as opposed to 5 LY - a factor of five.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 20:26, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Hydrogen was being acceleratied and "smashed" into elementary particles<BR>
> > in a particle accelerator. Then the basic particles  produced were<BR>
> > squeezed into a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of<BR>
> > Lanthanium. The idea was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
> <BR>
> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and Aluminum.<BR>
                                                                ^^^^^^^<BR>
Note that this is a bad example as in British English this spelt <BR>
Aluminium.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Dolts in Uniform<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 0:05, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 00-03-16 22:28:22 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << One of the better known ones (because it's told to all new recruits as <BR>
>  a cautionary tale) is about some young chap who found two dud 40mm <BR>
>  grenades (as above) and was banging them together in the back of a <BR>
>  Landrover to show off to the female signaller who was with him. I've seen<BR>
>  photos of the 'rover, and it was absolutely totalled. IIRC he died and<BR>
>  the sig was blinded. I forget what happened to the driver, but they were<BR>
>  at least badly injured. >><BR>
> <BR>
> My reaction would have been to ask my self a non-rhetorical question:<BR>
> "What will hurt me more -- being 3 feet away from at least 1 detonating<BR>
> 40mm round or diving out of a jeep?"<BR>
<BR>
I don't think the poor sod driving knew what was happening in the back, <BR>
or he probably would've jumped.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Best rules system (sorry, it's getting a bit long now)<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 12:15, Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I designed TL9-14 versions for all the classic ships (I think I still have<BR>
> TL9-15 designs for the Scout, Free Trader, Far Trader, Subsidized<BR>
> Merchant, Patrol Cruiser, Mercenary Cruiser, Subsidized Liner, Lab Ship,<BR>
> and Yacht), because I reasoned that my players wouldn't always have<BR>
> top-of-the-line ships, and they matched the originals quite well<BR>
> (admittedly, the TL9 Patrol Cruiser was pretty worthless, but TL11 and up<BR>
> wasn't bad).  The main trick was to reduce the fuel volume used by the<BR>
> power plant.  The designs in the MT Encyclopedia all assumed running the<BR>
> plant at full-bore for the full fuel duration (and tried to give 30 days<BR>
> duration).  When I designed my ships, I gave them 7 days with just the<BR>
> life support and controls running (for jumpspace), around 20 days with the<BR>
> maneuver drive, life support, commo and sensor gear (for in-sytem<BR>
> tranist), and about 3 days at full bore (for combat).  The resulting<BR>
> designs had just about the same cargo area and armanent as the original<BR>
> LBB versions (closer than the ones in the Encyclopedia even), although<BR>
> they required a bit of fuel accounting to use properly (My finished<BR>
> designs had three fuel consumption ratings in kl/hour, and the players<BR>
> would keep track of how long the ship operated in each mode).<BR>
<BR>
All very well and good, but that's not how they worked in CT. What <BR>
you've there is a set of ships that can't maneuver in N-space for a <BR>
full month, which their CT versions could do. In fact the Ct ships <BR>
could cruise around with the fire button down fot the full month if <BR>
they wanted to. You were complaining about TNE not giving constant <BR>
thrusts, etc and not feeling the same, and yet you've got these MT <BR>
ships that feel quite different from the CT originals.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 12:09, Chris Dixon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OBTrav:  This is a good instance of what High-Tech vs. Low Tech warfare<BR>
> can turn into.  100 Rangers and Delta "operators" were able to hold out<BR>
> against thousands of Somalis.  They took one hell of a beating doing it<BR>
> though. Something on the order of 70 wounded and 18 dead.<BR>
<BR>
I would've categorised it more as "trained soldiers" vs "untrained <BR>
mob". My understanding (from a summary of the incident) was that it was <BR>
the dicipline of the US troops that allowed them to hold off the <BR>
Somalis.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 00, at 23:02, James W. Lindsay wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:47:55, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > At 02:12 PM 3/16/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
> > >In a message dated 3/16/00 6:28:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
> > >gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > ><< nd how he fares against left-handed red heads.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Hey Penguin Boy! Watch it; I'm a left handed read head....:-)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I'm a left-handed Deadhead.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm left-handed and in need of a haircut.<BR>
<BR>
As am I, FWIW.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:05:33 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 3:20, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> wrote:<BR>
> > >> There is far more to "Traveller" than JUST the<BR>
> > >> setting, or the rules. It's<BR>
> > >> a combination of game-philosphy, setting and<BR>
> > >> mechanics.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Sorry, but this is to mystiefied. It's a RPG, not a<BR>
> > >philosophy. And people don't buy philosophies in<BR>
> > game<BR>
> > >shops,<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Yes they do.  They buy the designer's philosophy on<BR>
> > design, and the<BR>
> > publishers philosophy on layout and appearance.<BR>
> <BR>
> And I always thought that people are buying games to<BR>
> have fun there:Now I have to realize these are the<BR>
> 21TH century versions of greek philosophers schools.<BR>
<BR>
Firstly we're still in the 20th century AD, and secondly that's "21st", <BR>
not "21th".<BR>
<BR>
As for this being a philosophy school - that would be <BR>
rec.games.frp.advocacy - this is the debating school, or hadn't you <BR>
noticed?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:07:04 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Ethan Henry <BR>
<BR>
> "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You can't seem to shake you early 21-century expectation about <BR>
> what luxury<BR>
> > consists of.  These are aliens. Superintelligent, immortal, and <BR>
> in the end<BR>
> > genocidal aliens. You can't expect to find a four poster bed and shag<BR>
> > carpeting in Yaskodray's bedroom.<BR>
> <BR>
> Sure you can! Yeah, baby! Behave! Rrrowwrr!<BR>
> <BR>
> Grandchild: I don't want to be wiped out in a genocidal final war!<BR>
> Yaskodray: And I want a solid gold toilet, but it ain't in the <BR>
> works, baby!<BR>
> <BR>
> From "Yaskodray: The Ancient that Shagged Me".<BR>
<BR>
There are obvious parallels. <BR>
<BR>
Both Yaskodray and Dr Evil made clones of themselves..<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps Grandfather was much bigger than his clones too?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:13:26 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Matt Bond<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 02:09<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and<BR>
> mindset)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Jens Rydholm [mailto:jenry023@student.liu.se]<BR>
> > Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> > > Well over here it's AluminIUM, but otherwise, yes, it is LanthanUM.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Differences between British and American English. I would<BR>
> > claim that in<BR>
> > British English, it is spelled "Lanthanium."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Color, colour, armor, armour.<BR>
><BR>
> British for Lanthanum *is* Lanthanum. Just as Platinum is still<BR>
> Platinum.  Its only Aluminum (A-loom-in-um) that becomes Aluminium<BR>
> (Al-you-min-ee-um)<BR>
<BR>
To be accurate, "aluminum" is different from "aluminium".<BR>
<BR>
Aluminium is a metallic element.<BR>
<BR>
Aluminum is the brand name for a type of roofing material invented (I think<BR>
by an American) back in the '30s or '20s.<BR>
<BR>
Since then, the two words got confused in the US, in the same was that<BR>
people call vacuum cleaners - "hoovers", and acetacylic acid - "asprin"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:17:12 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Friendly Fire? was 40mm to the back<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:03:16 -0500, "Chris Dixon"<BR>
<cdixon@airfoiltech.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:44:01 -0800<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: 40mm to the back (was Re: 20mm to the head)<BR>
><BR>
>>When I was at LOGEX at Ft. Pickett back in 1990, I saw a flak vest<BR>
>which had<BR>
>>been hit (in the back) by a 40mm AP round during the U.S. invasion of<BR>
>>Panama. It must have been a glancing blow, for the round didn't<BR>
>penetrate<BR>
>>the kevlar. It did tear a big chunk away, however. One about the size<BR>
>of<BR>
>>your hand. The wearer of the vest received some broken ribs and serious<BR>
><BR>
>>bruises, but was otherwise OK.<BR>
><BR>
>IIRC a 40MM has to spin a preset number of times before it becomes<BR>
>active.<BR>
<BR>
It's roughly 10m until it's armed. There is a version for close combat<BR>
that arms at 3m and is used to knock in doors and such.<BR>
<BR>
>The fact that the wearer of said vest is still alive sounds to me like<BR>
>he took a hit from close range, so close that the round did not arm<BR>
>properly (or was a dud and the guy is one luck SOB).<BR>
><BR>
>The fact that he was hit in the back from close range sounds to me like<BR>
>friendly fire. (which really isn't so friendly if you think about it).<BR>
><BR>
>-Chris<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep<BR>
 Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"<BR>
                                               -"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:28:44 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:43:14 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Doug,<BR>
><BR>
><< I keep a file of weird wounding incidents, just to point out how difficult<BR>
> it is to model all the bizarre things that can happen in combat. >><BR>
><BR>
>Have you consulted a book called _Where Death Delights_? It's a biography of <BR>
>the founder of modern forensic pathology and has a huge collection of strange <BR>
>things that happen when bullets hit bodies. Been more than a decade since I <BR>
>read it, but ISTR a case of a 14-yo hit in the forehead by a .44 (don't <BR>
>remember magnum or special) at close range. The round penetrated the skin, <BR>
>caromed off the skull and skimed around _inside_ the skin but outside the <BR>
>skull until it came to rest between his shoulder blades.<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
I heard a similar story about a soldier (maybe a helicopter crewman).<BR>
He was shot in the chin and the bullet travelled in a similar manner<BR>
up his face, across the bridge of his nose, and exited just above his<BR>
eyebrow. This may have been in Vietnam.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep<BR>
 Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"<BR>
                                               -"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:32:58 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Massive firepower<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:34:05 -0500, "VonRammen"<BR>
<von_rammen@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>OBTRAV: What are the effects on morale by the introduction by one side of a new, higher TL during a war?<BR>
><BR>
>Also, does anyone know of/have electronic copies of canonical Solomani sectors? I'm putting together a database of all the Trav sectors I can lay my hands on (for Mileau 1100) and the Aldebaran sector I downloaded from CORE doesn't have Home listed in it.<BR>
><BR>
>Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
Have you checked the Missouri Archives? I'm not sure how canonical it<BR>
is but ther is a ton of info there. I don't have the URL handy but I'm<BR>
sure someone else will post it if you ask nicely. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep<BR>
 Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"<BR>
                                               -"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:35:28 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
<BR>
I saw this last night on E-bay...Is it by FASA? Is it worth buying? <BR>
Thanks...Happy St Patricks day all...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:43:28 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:04:24 -0600, "Thomas Vickers"<BR>
<redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The one strange thing that I read in the book was how Delta troopers prefer<BR>
>to be in the middle of a stree rather than up against walls. They stated<BR>
>that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for very long distances for<BR>
>some strange reason.<BR>
<BR>
If the bullets hit the wall at a shallow angle they may ricochet at an<BR>
even shallower angle.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep<BR>
 Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"<BR>
                                               -"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:52:35 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:40:23 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I'm actually not fighting cannon.T. is great<BR>
> > fiction.But fiction is not supposed to hold water<BR>
> > agaainst logic(why should it?If you are willing to<BR>
> > accept antigrav,reaktionless thrusters and so on,a<BR>
> > little unrealism in history and archeology shouldn't matter).<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, but the whole *point* of Science Fiction being seperate from<BR>
> Fantasy is that in SF the internal logic *must* be consistent. Some<BR>
> fantasy (often called "hard fantasy" by analogy to "hard SF") follows<BR>
> this rule.<BR>
<BR>
Harn would be one example.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:13:30 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:42:00 -0500, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Shocky writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >What I am wondering is; <BR>
> >What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined together then<BR>
> >launched into jump space using one ship's jump drive, then in the jump,<BR>
> >activating the other ship's jump drive ....<BR>
> <BR>
> 	IMTU, the jump drive does all its work at the beginning of the jump,<BR>
> 	so you could try this simply by jumping and then activating the<BR>
> 	jump drive again once in jump space.<BR>
> <BR>
> >Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
> >catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
> >Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
> <BR>
> 	IMTU, nothing at all.  As someone else posted, the jump drive is<BR>
> 	designed to push a ship out of n-space and has no effect in jump<BR>
> 	space.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, but the second jump drive wouldn't *be* in jump space... it would be<BR>
inside the bubble of n-space.<BR>
<BR>
I like Ingo's idea about the mass proximity of the larger ship, but I<BR>
personally would stick with canon and say that both ships destroy each<BR>
other (somehow).  I suppose the catastrophic second jump initiation would<BR>
scatter atoms of the second jump drive across the 42 (?) universes, and<BR>
that the resulting "effect" of such a close proximity jump to the actual<BR>
ship would at the very least cause some sort of internal explosion.<BR>
<BR>
What would you hope to accomplish by such a "second stage" jump anyhow?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:10:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Qstor@aol.com><BR>
> I saw this last night on E-bay...Is it by FASA? Is it worth buying?<BR>
> Thanks...Happy St Patricks day all...<BR>
<BR>
Grenadier (yes, the miniatures company) published that one Traveller<BR>
adventure.  It is very good quality and I found it playable.  Understand<BR>
that it is very strongly typed, having canned characters and a tight script.<BR>
It takes place somewhere entirely unknown, as well.  But the NPCs are well<BR>
developed and the level of detail is high.  It even includes suggestions for<BR>
using the Striker or AHL combat rules for a portion of the scenario that<BR>
involves mercs.<BR>
<BR>
The module sells for $15 to $20 in excellent condition.  The Traveller<BR>
Trader has one listed for $7, but its cover is scuffed and there are a lot<BR>
of highlighter marks inside.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:17:35 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Cheese and Gold<BR>
<BR>
>Or, to paraphrase Machiavelli:<BR>
>"Gold can't always get you good cheese, but good cheese can always get<BR>
>you gold."<BR>
<BR>
Also paraphrased many, many times by the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:27:57 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: TML FAQ URL (and any other acronyms as needed)<BR>
<BR>
For all of our new members (and any older members who want their<BR>
memories refreshed), here's the URL for the TML FAQ:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html<BR>
<BR>
It seemed about time to repost this URL....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2117<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2118</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2118<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Massive firepower<BR>
Re: TL25  (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
RE: Rim Cover<BR>
Testing New Account<BR>
Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
New AuricTech Address on the TML<BR>
Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
Guinness (was: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?)<BR>
Re: Best rules system (sorry, it's getting a bit long now)<BR>
Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
RE: Traveller with Alternity<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:51:25 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Massive firepower<BR>
<BR>
Pete wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Have you checked the Missouri Archives? I'm not sure how canonical it<BR>
> is but ther is a ton of info there. I don't have the URL handy but I'm<BR>
> sure someone else will post it if you ask nicely. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
The Missouri Archives URL is:<BR>
<BR>
http://web.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
_Great_ source!  (BTW,  whovever was asking about the Definitive Sensor<BR>
Rules, they're here.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:47:55 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TL25  (was: Re: Ancients)<BR>
<BR>
>>What tech do you have  on TL 25?<BR>
><BR>
>Magic. At this point, from our view, Clarke's Law has come to fruition.<BR>
><BR>
>According to the MT Referee's Companion, pgs 28-29, at TL 21 (the highest<BR>
>listed) you get things like the ability to move entire worlds through jump<BR>
>space, instantaneous transit through portals (walk from Efate to Regina in<BR>
>three easy steps!), Ringworlds at TL 25...  as I said, magic.<BR>
><BR>
>What makes it magic is that you'd be unable to even figure out that it was<BR>
>technology. My t-shirt projects a personal force field, while my belt<BR>
>buckle is a super-computer that guides the personal matter transfer device<BR>
>in the heels of my boots.  All run by my nano-tech enhanced psionic links.<BR>
>You shoot at me, the bullet bounces. I vanish, show up behind you, and<BR>
>point my ring at you... zot.<BR>
<BR>
 While the differential isn't quite that high, you might find the SF novel <BR>
"Denner's Wreck" a decent source as well. The author escapes me at the <BR>
moment...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:49:03 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rim Cover<BR>
<BR>
Jessie,<BR>
   My like to SOK Traveller Chronicle is dead...would you settle for a <BR>
colour photocopy?  I was also thinking that Challenge did a few nice space <BR>
station-like covers...if memory serves correct there was one with Pinacle <BR>
(read a space shuttle) by construction of space mirrors and also one within <BR>
the starship which was showing a vector approach to an Earth-like planet (my <BR>
all time fav piece of trav art).  Pity GDW, never got around to printing <BR>
some the original prints in artbook of some sort, eh.<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Boris<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:58:55 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Testing New Account<BR>
<BR>
I just wanted to test my new, Web-based e-mail account as a TML subscriber (note the e-mail address).<BR>
<BR>
Those of you who have read this far either are interested in this test, or forgot to check the header.<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:51:10 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
<BR>
> From: "R.D. Elliott" <BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
> >Obviously, there were enough vitamin sources on Vland to offset the<BR>
> >threat of things like scurvy and beri-beri. That, and the ritual<BR>
> >cannibalism they had to practise.<BR>
> <BR>
> 	Ritual?  I was under the impression that cannibalism was a<BR>
> significant if not major part of the diet...<BR>
<BR>
That's right.  It's the K'kree who do ritual cannibalism, as part of the<BR>
initiation into the K'kree K'kannibal K'konspiracy.<BR>
<BR>
It was their near exposure that lead to them having to manipulate the<BR>
Hivers into ending the Hiver-K'kree war.<BR>
<BR>
And it explains why the K'kree are so anti-carnivore - they are eliminating<BR>
their competitors....<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:45:09 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <BR>
> Haven't run my Traveller LARP yet, but am working on it.<BR>
<BR>
A piece of trivia:<BR>
<BR>
Traveller LARPs were being run at conventions in Australia in the early<BR>
80s.  I played in a couple - very serious fun.  Think of a couple of<BR>
hundred people all wandering around being a ship's crew, or the inhabitants<BR>
of a terraforming plant/colony city.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, that was during Traveller's glory days, when you could get a<BR>
couple of hundred Traveller players together.  Running something like this<BR>
at one of the huge cons in the US or UK might be a way of raising<BR>
Traveller's profile.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:50:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >> At TL 15 would vacc suits be able to withstand solar flare radiation<BR>
>> >> outside protective planetary belts? Just curious...I know that<BR>
>> >> modern suits won't and that US shuttle astronauts have to be<BR>
>> >> careful....<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
>> > that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest <BR>
> introduction.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
>> requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
>> and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
>> stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> This requires *tens* of cm of water, plastics or other materials.<BR>
>> metals tend to produce secondary radiation if they are thick enough to<BR>
>> stop the primary radiation. Thus, they tend to "amplify" the effects!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> You'd need several *meters* of metal to stop the primary *and*<BR>
>> secondary radiation.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
>> too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
><BR>
> Nuclear dampers, perhaps, at high enough TL - definitely not TL 11,<BR>
> though. <BR>
<BR>
Dampers won't do a damn thing to protect against radiation. They work<BR>
by affecting the rate at which nuclear reactions occur. The radiation<BR>
was generated millions of miles away. There aren't any nuclear<BR>
reactions for the dampers to affect.<BR>
<BR>
Particle radiation is efecctively sub-atomic *bullets* in *huge*<BR>
numbers. Light element shielding is much like using soft padding to<BR>
absorb the bullets (like firing a bullet into a bale of cloth).<BR>
<BR>
Heavy element/metal shielding is like rigid armor. If it isn't thick<BR>
enough, you may stop the "bullet" but get torn up by the fragments<BR>
spalled from the inner surface of the armor.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:56:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
> news:<00317.104331.4T9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
>><BR>
>>> I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you<BR>
>>> consider that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very<BR>
>>> earliest introduction.<BR>
<BR>
>> *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
>> requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
>> and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
>> stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
>><BR>
>> This requires *tens* of cm of water, plastics or other materials.<BR>
>> metals tend to produce secondary radiation if they are thick enough to<BR>
>> stop the primary radiation. Thus, they tend to "amplify" the effects!<BR>
>><BR>
>> You'd need several *meters* of metal to stop the primary *and*<BR>
>> secondary radiation.<BR>
>><BR>
>> None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
>> too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
> Shielding from high energy *charged* particles only requires keeping them<BR>
> away from you using a suitable field. This may be hard with today's<BR>
> technology, but at advanced TLs, this may be a reasonable assumption. A more<BR>
> realistic scenario may be to use equipment on your ship to create a suitable<BR>
> field to protect the crew while the are outside in vacc suits.<BR>
<BR>
Charged particles get *deflected* my *very* strong magnetic fields<BR>
(electrical fiels would work too, but charges at *that* high a level<BR>
have problems you don't want to deal with).<BR>
<BR>
The deflection means that you wind up protecting one area at the cost<BR>
of increasing the flux elsewhere. Units mounted on suits would be<BR>
unhealthy due to this effect. <BR>
<BR>
Mounted on ships, if they can protect folks on the hull from a major<BR>
flare, they can greatly reduce the effects of a particle beam strike!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:00:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Russell Bornschlegel writes:<BR>
>> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> > *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
>> > requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
>> > and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
>> > stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
><BR>
> Huh?  Capture cross section only matters for neutrons, which are a <BR>
> vanishingly<BR>
> small portion of solar radiation.  Shielding from high energy particles <BR>
> depends on what you're shielding from, you want heavy elements to shield from<BR>
> gamma, light elements to shield from high energy particles.<BR>
<BR>
I thought protons could be captured, as well as slowed?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:02:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> > a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The <BR>
> idea <BR>
>> > was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and Aluminum.<BR>
><BR>
> Uhoh. Leonard, you may have just triggered another American-versus-<BR>
> English thread. In the UK, it's AluminIUM. Just like Lanthanium. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't matter. The International Chemical Union has the official name<BR>
as "Aluminum". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:13:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: New AuricTech Address on the TML<BR>
<BR>
FYI:<BR>
<BR>
Since my e-mail test worked, I intend to unsubscribe my wombat@premier.net address later tonight (I want to run a few more tests).  Those TMLers who want to contact me can still use my wombat@premier.net address; however, I plan to shift my TML participation to my aurictech address.<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
_________________________________________<BR>
eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:16:47 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
<BR>
Qstor@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
> I saw this last night on E-bay...Is it by FASA?]<BR>
<BR>
Grenadier, 1984, Gary Pilkington. 48 8.5" x 11" pages <BR>
including lots of art - the maps are good but the art <BR>
is not so good.<BR>
<BR>
> Is it worth buying? <BR>
<BR>
It is OK if you are a completest [Must buy ALL Traveller <BR>
products.] or like Merc adventures.  <BR>
I'd say pay up to $8-10 including shipping.<BR>
<BR>
It's for a group of 4-6 characters generated w/<BR>
Mercenary who are hired to find a missing Archeologist.<BR>
It has planetary stats for a (non canonical) subsector<BR>
just coreward of the Imperium. With a little modification<BR>
it would be a fun first adventure for a group being<BR>
brought over from D&D.<BR>
<BR>
Canon problems: Location, lack of Vargr at said location<BR>
<BR>
Canon & Logic problems: 5,200 year old and still functioning<BR>
high autonomous Vilani robots of an apparent TL  of 14 or so<BR>
at a hidden Vilani base.<BR>
<BR>
Style problems: Slightly too Dungeon's & Dragon'sish<BR>
(but so was Twilight's Peak & that's a great adventure)<BR>
<BR>
Good Points: Basic premise is sound, clear goals, good<BR>
NPC caused plot complications -better written and less<BR>
implausible than many Judges Guild products, way better<BR>
than Group One or Imperium Games. Nice subsector stats.<BR>
& planetary maps. Striker stats for the vehicles. Art is<BR>
less inadequate than many 3rd party products.<BR>
<BR>
Sub Par by GDW standards<BR>
<BR>
Suggestions: Place adventure in Antares or Julian Realm,<BR>
add some Vargr. Replace the robots at the Vilani base<BR>
with the descendants of the Vilani base crew.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:26:49 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
<BR>
>>Also, does anyone know of/have electronic copies of canonical Solomani<BR>
sectors? I'm putting >>together a >>database of all the Trav sectors I can<BR>
lay my hands on (for Mileau 1100) and the >Aldebaran sector I >>downloaded<BR>
from CORE doesn't have Home listed in it.<BR>
<BR>
>Have you checked the Missouri Archives? I'm not sure how canonical it<BR>
>is but ther is a ton of info there. I don't have the URL handy but I'm<BR>
>sure someone else will post it if you ask nicely. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Been there, done that :)<BR>
<BR>
IIRC Missouri has essential the 35 sectors of Atlas of the Imperium plus one<BR>
or two others. Spot checking indicates they are canonical with respect to<BR>
AoI.<BR>
<BR>
CORE had a much more extensive range of sectors, although the canonicity of<BR>
some of them, is, IMHO, doubtful...specifically everything outside AoI.<BR>
Also, ironically enough, there are some discrepancies between Core,<BR>
Glimmerdrift Reaches and Ley sectors and AoI. (Incidentally, I think this is<BR>
also true of Jim Vassalikos' "Galactic 2.4" Program.) I noticed the problem<BR>
with Aldeberan once I had set up the basic form to display sector info, and<BR>
found out Home (1009 Aldeberan according to somebody) wasn't there.<BR>
<BR>
In between my hunt for billable hours (I actually get paid for working in<BR>
Access 97, sometimes) I plan to knock together something that will not only<BR>
display a subsector map, but be completely searchable by UWP factors and<BR>
trade codes. In theory I have the tools to make a runtime version of the<BR>
database that will work on any Win 95+ system...if I can, I'll post it<BR>
somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
One week on the TML and I've seen a yacht apparently designed to slingshot<BR>
around black holes and a hypersonic airframe Battleship (I guess to *really*<BR>
blow crowds away at the Far Future version of air shows!) Not to mention<BR>
xenoarchaeology! Keep up the good work, guys!<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:10:22 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
<BR>
> From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
> Thanks...Happy St Patricks day all...<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
Guinness is evil.  <BR>
<BR>
I will rephrase that:  many, many pints of Guinness is evil.<BR>
<BR>
Be warned.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:37:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Guinness (was: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Alan Bradley <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>> From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
>> Thanks...Happy St Patricks day all...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Mike<BR>
><BR>
>Guinness is evil.  <BR>
><BR>
>I will rephrase that:  many, many pints of Guinness is evil.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, since there can be no good without evil, the reverse is also true.  Therefore, Guinness is good.<BR>
<BR>
Many, many pints of Guinness are therefore also good.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.guinness.ie/<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
_________________________________________<BR>
eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:33:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system (sorry, it's getting a bit long now)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Rupert Boleyn [mailto:rboleyn@paradise.net.nz]<BR>
><BR>
>> Well that's even stranger than I thought.  You'd think a Vacc suit,<BR>
>> designed to withstand high temperatures and radiation, would provide some<BR>
>> protection.<BR>
><BR>
>>A laser isn't high temperature or ionizing radiation, though. It had <BR>
> interesting effects, like lasers becoming the weapon of choice for <BR>
> shooting up TL8- locals who didn't have "real" armour, but you had to <BR>
> have some old fashioned slug throwers (or PGMPs) for when the TED's <BR>
> elite troopers turned up.<<BR>
><BR>
> A laser does it's damage by increasing the temperature of the target at a<BR>
> focused point, doesn't it?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Weapon's grad lasers dump so much energy into the surface layers<BR>
of molecules ion the target that those layers *explode* into plasma.<BR>
Thus the laser gives *blast* damage. Starting at around "stick of<BR>
dynamite" level and going up.<BR>
<BR>
> A suit should at least reduce the damage a bit,<BR>
> I would think - it has to burn through the suit before it hits flesh, and<BR>
> that would have to burn off some of the beam's energy (although not<BR>
> necessarily enough to make a difference to the target).  Also, vaccsuits<BR>
> might be partially reflective or have a reflective layer to aid in<BR>
> temperature control, and a laser should be affected by that (again, probably<BR>
> not enough to save your life, but a little bit).<BR>
<BR>
"Burn through" mode takes to long to make an effective weapon. <BR>
<BR>
>>Lasers: Gravitic focusing merely explained how you could get the ranges <BR>
> that previous editions had given lasers, that's all. CLC lasers just <BR>
> gave an alternative power source. The old-style DEI lasers still <BR>
> existed.<<BR>
><BR>
> Yes, it did explain how the ranges were obtained (and quite cleverly), but<BR>
> it also changed the look of things.  No longer could a laser be built with a<BR>
> barrel - you had to have a large-diameter lens instead (and the TNE drawings<BR>
> show this).  The classic ships didn't have giant lenses sitting on their<BR>
> turrets, they had little stubby barrels.  Unrealistic, perhpas, but more<BR>
> aesthetically pleasing to my mind.  <BR>
<BR>
Gravitational focusing will *not* use anything resembling what we'd<BR>
call a "lens". The artists just saw the word "focus" and added lenses<BR>
(my guess, based on years of looking at the mess artists have made of<BR>
book covers).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:27:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Thu following wsw run thrum a sepulchers automatically an straight<BR>
>> form me to yuan.  What I really wanted to type was, "The following<BR>
>> was run through a spellchecker automatically and straight from me to<BR>
>> you."  You can see the hash the spellchecker made of it.  <g><BR>
><BR>
> You're either, er, tellling fibs, or have an _extremely_ bad spell checker<BR>
> that should never have been released to the public.<BR>
><BR>
> How can any spellchecker generate words that don't exist ?<BR>
> (Such as "Thu" "wsw" "thrum" & "yuan" )<BR>
<BR>
Thu = standard abbreviation for "Thursday"<BR>
wsw = ??? <BR>
Thrum = real word. Trying strumming a tightly stretched cable and<BR>
        listen to the thrumming noise it makes<BR>
Yuan = Chinese word, possibly a coin or bill (which would get it into a<BR>
       dictionary)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:07:42 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 19:56, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
> > news:<00317.104331.4T9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>...<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>> I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you<BR>
> >>> consider that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very<BR>
> >>> earliest introduction.<BR>
> <BR>
> >> *How* are they doing this? Shielding from high energy particles<BR>
> >> requires placing atoms with a high capture cross section in the way,<BR>
> >> and preferrably *light* atoms that won't become radiactive after<BR>
> >> stopping them, or generate showers of secondary radiation.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> This requires *tens* of cm of water, plastics or other materials.<BR>
> >> metals tend to produce secondary radiation if they are thick enough to<BR>
> >> stop the primary radiation. Thus, they tend to "amplify" the effects!<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> You'd need several *meters* of metal to stop the primary *and*<BR>
> >> secondary radiation.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> None of this is practical on a suit of *any* TL. Superdense would be<BR>
> >> too *heavy* for anything except maybe battle dress.<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Shielding from high energy *charged* particles only requires keeping<BR>
> > them away from you using a suitable field. This may be hard with today's<BR>
> > technology, but at advanced TLs, this may be a reasonable assumption. A<BR>
> > more realistic scenario may be to use equipment on your ship to create a<BR>
> > suitable field to protect the crew while the are outside in vacc suits.<BR>
> <BR>
> Charged particles get *deflected* my *very* strong magnetic fields<BR>
> (electrical fiels would work too, but charges at *that* high a level<BR>
> have problems you don't want to deal with).<BR>
> <BR>
> The deflection means that you wind up protecting one area at the cost of<BR>
> increasing the flux elsewhere. Units mounted on suits would be unhealthy<BR>
> due to this effect. <BR>
> <BR>
> Mounted on ships, if they can protect folks on the hull from a major<BR>
> flare, they can greatly reduce the effects of a particle beam strike!<BR>
<BR>
Umm, last I heard the PAWs used for ship combat were N-PAWs, so they <BR>
should be fairly immune (unless you're able to actually strip electrons <BR>
from the hydrgen atoms they're spitting at you).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:12:14 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 00, at 20:02, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> In mail you write:<BR>
> >> > a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The <BR>
> > idea <BR>
> >> > was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and Aluminum.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Uhoh. Leonard, you may have just triggered another American-versus-<BR>
> > English thread. In the UK, it's AluminIUM. Just like Lanthanium. ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Doesn't matter. The International Chemical Union has the official name as<BR>
> "Aluminum". <BR>
<BR>
Obviously a Yankocentirc organisation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:25:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
<BR>
There is a SCA knight up in Tennessee named Starhelm Warlock, yes he has<BR>
been around a long time as the heralds don't generally pass names like that<BR>
any more.  He got the name from the fact that in Nam he got shot in the<BR>
head, well actually in the helmet.  The bullet supposedly left a star shaped<BR>
dent in his steel pot right about where the top of his forehead would have<BR>
been if he hadn't been wearing it.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:24:02 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
At 15:05 18.03.00 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Firstly we're still in the 20th century AD, and secondly that's "21st", <BR>
>not "21th".<BR>
<BR>
First this is a mathematical view at the matter, not a cultural one.<BR>
Second, who cares?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:22:48 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller with Alternity<BR>
<BR>
At 15:05 18.03.00 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>One hundreth? That must be because of its better astrogation systems, <BR>
>as it only jumps 50 LY per jump as opposed to 5 LY - a factor of five.<BR>
<BR>
???<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:22:07 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
At 19:13 17.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>What would you hope to accomplish by such a "second stage" jump anyhow?<BR>
<BR>
Come on! That's a Vilani's question!<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
Solomani just do it because it's possible, playful apes that we are.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2118<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2119</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/18/00 3:15:34 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2119<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Spellcheck (was: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?)<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Annic Nova - again<BR>
Re: Massive firepower<BR>
Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
A Question on CT Print Runs<BR>
RE: A Question on CT Print Runs<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Question on Missouri Archive Sector Data<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
Re: Trav Freeforms<BR>
Re: publicity stunt for J class<BR>
Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: The Mire Run (both parts)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:33:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Spellcheck (was: Re: The Mafia in the Imperium ?)<BR>
<BR>
- ---  Pitt <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>>> Thu following wsw run thrum a sepulchers automatically an straight<BR>
>>> form me to yuan.  What I really wanted to type was, "The following<BR>
>>> was run through a spellchecker automatically and straight from me to<BR>
>>> you."  You can see the hash the spellchecker made of it.  <g><BR>
>><BR>
>> You're either, er, tellling fibs, or have an _extremely_ bad spell checker<BR>
>> that should never have been released to the public.<BR>
>><BR>
>> How can any spellchecker generate words that don't exist ?<BR>
>> (Such as "Thu" "wsw" "thrum" & "yuan" )<BR>
><BR>
>Thu = standard abbreviation for "Thursday"<BR>
>wsw = ??? <BR>
>Thrum = real word. Trying strumming a tightly stretched cable and<BR>
>        listen to the thrumming noise it makes<BR>
>Yuan = Chinese word, possibly a coin or bill (which would get it into a<BR>
>       dictionary)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the original would have to be oddly typed to cause the spellchecker to suggest those terms.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Can you imagine trying to write a Galanglic spellchecker that would work Imperium-wide? <shudder><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:28:29 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of J. Paul Sanders<BR>
><BR>
> Came across this in my files today - I don't think I even have the paper<BR>
> photocopy that I used to key the article in with several years<BR>
> ago. Anyway,<BR>
> thought others might be interested, so enjoy.<BR>
><BR>
> ***<BR>
><BR>
>                       TRAVELLER FENCING<BR>
>                     -------(- by -)------<BR>
>                         Dean Martelle<BR>
<BR>
Good One, Paul !<BR>
<BR>
This and the Mire stuff (thanks to whoever that was ) are the reasons I<BR>
waded thru the 900-odd TML messages I had after going away for three days<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:39:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Annic Nova - again<BR>
<BR>
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When I was putting together a TNE version of the Annic Nova it struck me<BR>
that the two small craft (Imperial standard) were unlikely to have been the<BR>
originals. I base this on the fact that the mother ship did not evidence any<BR>
fusion technology. Its jump drives and power source were both from solar<BR>
charged batteries, and besides those nice cylindrically configured small<BR>
craft don't look weird enough.<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:59:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Massive firepower<BR>
<BR>
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   =20<BR>
    Was asked:<BR>
   =20<BR>
    OBTRAV: What are the effects on morale by the introduction by one =<BR>
side of a new, higher TL during a war?=20<BR>
   =20<BR>
    I should think that the initial introduction of poison gas in WW I =<BR>
would be a good historical example.  Reportedly it tore such a gaping =<BR>
hole in the French lines that the Germans thought it was a ruse to =<BR>
sucker them in and thus didn't follow up properly.<BR>
   =20<BR>
    Alternatively the initial introduction of effective tank tactics in =<BR>
WWII could be viewed in the same light. =20<BR>
   =20<BR>
    Do these historical example seem reasonable or have I just put my =<BR>
foot in it and started a new flame war?=20<BR>
   =20<BR>
    Dan =20<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BLOCKQUOTE=20<BR>
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =<BR>
5px"><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>Was asked:</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>OBTRAV: What are the effects on morale by the introduction by =<BR>
one side=20<BR>
    of a new, higher TL during a war? </DIV><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>I should think that the initial introduction of poison gas in =<BR>
WW I=20<BR>
    would be a good historical example.&nbsp; Reportedly it tore such a =<BR>
gaping=20<BR>
    hole in the French lines that the Germans thought it was a ruse to =<BR>
sucker=20<BR>
    them in and thus didn't follow up properly.</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>Alternatively the initial introduction of effective tank =<BR>
tactics in=20<BR>
    WWII could be viewed in the same light.&nbsp; </DIV><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>Do these historical example seem reasonable or have I just put =<BR>
my foot=20<BR>
    in it and started a new flame war? </DIV><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV>Dan&nbsp; </DIV><BR>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:04:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
<BR>
- --- Daniel Phelps <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>There is a SCA knight up in Tennessee named Starhelm Warlock, yes he has<BR>
>been around a long time as the heralds don't generally pass names like that<BR>
>any more.  He got the name from the fact that in Nam he got shot in the<BR>
>head, well actually in the helmet.  The bullet supposedly left a star shaped<BR>
>dent in his steel pot right about where the top of his forehead would have<BR>
>been if he hadn't been wearing it.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.  Reminds me of the Kevlar helmet currently owned by the 82d Airborne Division Museum at Ft. Bragg, NC.  It was from the first combat use of the Kevlar (URGENT FURY, a.k.a. Grenada), and it has a 7.62mm AKM round _imbedded_ in it (the round did not penetrate to the paratrooper's skull).<BR>
<BR>
_Now_ you know why getting American soldiers in hazardous areas to wear their Kevlar helmets is a fairly easy task!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
_________________________________________<BR>
eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 01:06:41 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
From: <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >"A mind is a terrible thing to waste."<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't it Eddie Murphy that mutated that in a skit on SNL into<BR>
><BR>
> "A mind is a terrible thing."<BR>
<BR>
Dan Quayle had the funniest variation on the theme, however:<BR>
<BR>
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very<BR>
wasteful. How true that is."<BR>
<BR>
How true it is Dan, how true it is.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 01:50:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: A Question on CT Print Runs<BR>
<BR>
I just received the first volume of the Classic Traveller Reprint series.<BR>
Toward the front of the book Marc gives the initial publication date, number<BR>
of print runs and the number of each book produced.<BR>
<BR>
What happened between 1979 and 1983?<BR>
<BR>
Over 100,000 copies of Mercenary and High Guard were produced, but with the<BR>
release of Book 6: Scouts in 1983 the numbers fell off sharply, under 26,000<BR>
copies were made. The number of copies of Book 7 and Book 8 were even lower.<BR>
Over twice as many copies of Mercenary were produced than Books 6, 7 and 8<BR>
combined.<BR>
<BR>
Any info, especially from Loren or Marc, would be appreciated. Were there<BR>
sudden distribution problems? Was it a general lack of interest in the<BR>
products on the part of the audience or an increase in printing costs? Could<BR>
it have been intervention by Yaskodray?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:02:26 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: A Question on CT Print Runs<BR>
<BR>
Could be people just like blowing things up :)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris<BR>
> Seamans<BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 10:51 PM<BR>
> To: TML<BR>
> Subject: A Question on CT Print Runs<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I just received the first volume of the Classic Traveller Reprint series.<BR>
> Toward the front of the book Marc gives the initial publication<BR>
> date, number<BR>
> of print runs and the number of each book produced.<BR>
><BR>
> What happened between 1979 and 1983?<BR>
><BR>
> Over 100,000 copies of Mercenary and High Guard were produced,<BR>
> but with the<BR>
> release of Book 6: Scouts in 1983 the numbers fell off sharply,<BR>
> under 26,000<BR>
> copies were made. The number of copies of Book 7 and Book 8 were<BR>
> even lower.<BR>
> Over twice as many copies of Mercenary were produced than Books 6, 7 and 8<BR>
> combined.<BR>
><BR>
> Any info, especially from Loren or Marc, would be appreciated. Were there<BR>
> sudden distribution problems? Was it a general lack of interest in the<BR>
> products on the part of the audience or an increase in printing<BR>
> costs? Could<BR>
> it have been intervention by Yaskodray?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:24:19 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
> The thinking error in most  argument is simply<BR>
> A the droyne didn't start from scratch.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure that is canon, perhaps some or all were dropped on planets with<BR>
zero technology, or at least the minimum required for survival. Someone<BR>
mentioned an idea that Grandfather might have been investigating how much<BR>
variety could exist in technology.<BR>
<BR>
>They already had established tech and thus standards.<BR>
<BR>
As mentioned previously, their "standards" varied from Oytrip to Oytrip.<BR>
<BR>
> And those,exspecially for minor things like a keyboard<BR>
> ,don't change.(Do you really think a fork in the Alpha<BR>
> Centaury colony in 4000 A. D. would look that<BR>
> different from your forks)<BR>
<BR>
Fork, no, eating utensil, maybe. Consider chopsticks.<BR>
<BR>
> B A Droyne hand (or head.Or ....) stays the same.So<BR>
> the devices will have some similarities by default.<BR>
<BR>
Granted, but this only applies to those items built for Droyne, and as<BR>
somebody mentione, some Oytrips may have developed cultures revolving around<BR>
extra-species servitude. Result: many tools not following the pattern.<BR>
<BR>
> And the human and vargr helpers are no argument:<BR>
>You will see who was the boss.<BR>
> Maybe a roman servus lived better than a roman<BR>
> farmer,but compared to his boss......?<BR>
<BR>
How? We are talking millennia old ruins here, if the culture leaves the<BR>
Droyne dependent enough on a helper race to justify a lot of non-Droyne<BR>
tools, their living quarters would likely be intermingled, if not shared.<BR>
And since most of the things that give a luxurious surrounding (rugs,<BR>
tapestries, fine cuisine, etc.) would decay or be plundered, I don't see how<BR>
the remaining ruins would indicate which residents were "living it up".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:25:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Question on Missouri Archive Sector Data<BR>
<BR>
On the Missouri Archive there are three different directories containing<BR>
Sector Data. They are called Old Sectors, Sectors and Sector.DGP. Does<BR>
anyone know which ones match up with the Atlas of the Imperium the best?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 01:02:52 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/16/00 11:25 AM, Glenn Goffin gmgoffin@yahoo.com<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> It should be no surprise that I hereby claim Mongo/Jewell for<BR>
> the purposes of the TML 2000 Landgrab.<BR>
<BR>
Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it been taken? What<BR>
worlds are claimed so far? Shouldn't someone be keeping track, maybe posting<BR>
a list on the web? Myself, I'll stick to working more on my Amber Class<BR>
Heresy Zone when I can get around to it. Spring is a busy season for me.<BR>
<BR>
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/<BR>
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:16:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump drive activation inside a gravitational field<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/16/00 12:16 PM, Glenn Goffin gmgoffin@yahoo.com<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> I hope nobody tries it in my Traveller universe, because<BR>
> then I'll have to make up my mind.<BR>
<BR>
I hear that, heh heh! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:19:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Info request re:  "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/16/00 12:17 PM, Eric Henry ehenry@newberlin.org<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Or show the Pacific rim which is also known as Ring of Fire<BR>
<BR>
I like that idea, plus that area of the globe is rarely shown and is very<BR>
aesthetically pleasing, at least to me.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:32:54 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
> Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
><BR>
> > From: "Frank G. Pitt"<BR>
> > Haven't run my Traveller LARP yet, but am working on it.<BR>
><BR>
> A piece of trivia:<BR>
><BR>
> Traveller LARPs were being run at conventions in Australia in the early<BR>
> 80s.  I played in a couple - very serious fun.  Think of a couple of<BR>
> hundred people all wandering around being a ship's crew, or the<BR>
inhabitants<BR>
> of a terraforming plant/colony city.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, that was during Traveller's glory days, when you could get a<BR>
> couple of hundred Traveller players together.  Running something like this<BR>
> at one of the huge cons in the US or UK might be a way of raising<BR>
> Traveller's profile.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
We should get our shit together and write one for CanCon next year.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldnt go for a really big freeform, but you could get 30 people for a<BR>
Trav freeform, easy.<BR>
<BR>
Ian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:34:48 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: publicity stunt for J class<BR>
<BR>
> From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
> Subject: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
> One week on the TML and I've seen a yacht apparently designed to slingshot<BR>
> around black holes and a hypersonic airframe Battleship (I guess to<BR>
*really*<BR>
> blow crowds away at the Far Future version of air shows!) Not to mention<BR>
> xenoarchaeology! Keep up the good work, guys!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I can't speak for the rest of Famile Spofulam, but I hadnt thought of that<BR>
one.<BR>
<BR>
Where is the closest Black Hole to Imperial space, anyway ?<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:53:44 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
Maximum speed of 1050 km per hour, accelerating to that speed with 87<BR>
seconds of thrust. A total thrust-time of 172 seconds is provided. Fuelled<BR>
by 100 kg of hypergolic fuel, this baby tests the pilot to the absolute<BR>
limit.<BR>
<BR>
Needless to say, this is a high performance, fly-by-2mm-steel-wire aircraft<BR>
for the discerning gentleman. Knowledge of computer assisted flying programs<BR>
is not a requirement. Prospective owners are advised to check with local<BR>
authorities regarding environmental issues and flight control requirements.<BR>
<BR>
Pilots are strongly advised not to remove the safety interlocks, as doing so<BR>
may invalidate the warranty on the vehicle and thus subject the operator to<BR>
severe legal risks if the vehicle goes uncontrolled and damage to life or<BR>
property occours.<BR>
<BR>
The total unit masses 300 kg, and have a frame designed to support 400 kg.<BR>
Intending operators of more than 100 kg mass are advised to contact your<BR>
local Famile Spofulam representitives about custom models.<BR>
<BR>
*********************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
1.7 kN thrust Hypergolic Liquid Rocket ; 0.013t, KCr 23. Consumes 2.074 m3<BR>
fuel per hour<BR>
<BR>
100 kg of hypergolic fuel (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
Favorite Gloop") will therefore last 172 seconds, and cost Cr 40.<BR>
<BR>
0.4 t Transonic airframe ; 0.04t, KCr<BR>
<BR>
Basic Mechanical Crewstation ; 0.1 t, KCr 0.3<BR>
<BR>
100 kg pilot ; 0.1t, KCr Free<BR>
<BR>
35 kg Parachute ; 0.035t, KCr 1<BR>
<BR>
Max speed 1100 km per hour. 5 maneuver points. 0.17 maintenence points.KCr<BR>
38.3 (TL6 credits, too). Accelerates at 3.325 m/s, or about 12 km per hour<BR>
per second. Glide ratio of 10%.<BR>
<BR>
NB If you leave the pedal on the metal, the airframe breaks up once it goes<BR>
over 1100 km per hour in a standard atmosphere. We cannot either confirm or<BR>
deny rumours of the release of a  racing model at this point in time.<BR>
<BR>
Referees notes : I guess you should put "Jet Bike" into the Vehicle cluster.<BR>
This thing is suicide on a stick, in my opinion.<BR>
<BR>
(c) Ian Whitchurch 2000. Not to be reprinted without permission, but<BR>
personal use is OK.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 04:56:37 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Ian,<BR>
<BR>
You should try to find the book <BR>
"Camelot 30K" written by <BR>
Robert L. Forward.<BR>
<BR>
This book desribes first contact with an alien species living in the<BR>
Oort Cloud. This is native life living at a temperature of -30,000 C<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:27:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A differnt First contact (long)(was RE: Vilani history and mindset)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/17/00 at 03:58 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
><BR>
>>>>I guess you (and they) never read Murray Leinster's *classic* First<BR>
>>>>Contact story. He points out a few "problems" with meeting aliens in<BR>
>>>>deep space, rather than on worlds belonging to either of you.<BR>
><BR>
>>> No... I haven't, do you know the name of the story? I would be interested <BR>
> in <BR>
>>> reading it!<BR>
><BR>
>>I'm not sure. It's been *years* and much of my library is inaccessible. I<BR>
>>think it may actually have been titled "First Contact".<BR>
><BR>
> There was a story titled "First Contact", and I think it was by Murray <BR>
> Leinster. <BR>
><BR>
> I think I remember that part of the problem was figuring out a way to not <BR>
> give away where your own people came from.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, that sounds like the one...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:29:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:55:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
>> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
>> Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > I'd argue they could by about TL11. Which is reasonable when you consider<BR>
>> > that TL8 vacc suits are about 2 TLs from their very earliest <BR>
> introduction.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> It depends on how much 'magic tech' you want.  Realistically, shielding <BR>
> from<BR>
>> a solar flare requires the equivalent of a meter or more of steel, which<BR>
>> isn't practical on a vacc suit at all (SD and bonded SD have a functionally<BR>
>> 'magic' level of radiation shielding; battledress and powered armor might<BR>
>> allow surviving a solar flare, though it would be unhealthy).<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Shielding in deep space depends on how long you want it for.  At high tech,<BR>
>> anything other than a skinsuit will probably protect against the low<BR>
>> penetration beta which is the most common part of solar radiation; however,<BR>
>> high penetration radiation will still give doses of a couple rads an hour.<BR>
>> Going out in a skinsuit, unless protected by a magnetic field, would be<BR>
>> fatal in minutes.<BR>
>> <BR>
><BR>
>         Could you actually build such a magnetic field generator strong enough<BR>
> to prevent such a painful death?<BR>
>         It's not hard generate a magnetic field, I'm not sure of what strength<BR>
> you would need, but given the power density of the 3I technology<BR>
> (particularly in Gurps) I would not see generating such a magnetic field<BR>
> being a problem. Unless it requires such a powerful magnetic field it<BR>
> causes bad physiological effects. <BR>
<BR>
The roblem is that the field has to have *poles*. And at the poles,<BR>
rather than deflecting the particles away, the field accelerates them<BR>
*in*. <BR>
<BR>
That's why you get the aurora up near earth's poles. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:31:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Thom Jones-Low writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>      Could you actually build such a magnetic field generator strong enough<BR>
>> to prevent such a painful death?<BR>
><BR>
> I don't know the exact energy requirements, but the magnetic field intensity<BR>
> required  is inversely proportional to the actual size of the field; a<BR>
> man-sized shield would probably require hundreds of tesla, and would have all<BR>
> kinds of strange effects on nearby objects.  A space station can have a <BR>
> considerably larger field, and doesn't need nearly as high intensities in<BR>
> any case, so required field strength could be much lower.<BR>
<BR>
It occurs to me that magnetic shielding would go well with toroidal<BR>
space stations (the old 1950s "bicycle tire" type). That way the "pole"<BR>
is at the hub, which can be abandoned during flares, or heavily shielded.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:23:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, ironically enough, there are some discrepancies between Core,<BR>
> Glimmerdrift Reaches and Ley sectors and AoI.<BR>
<BR>
No discrepancies. The four Judges' Guild sectors (Ley, Glimmerdrift<BR>
Reaches, Crucis Margin, and Marantha Alkahest) were declared non-canon,<BR>
and thrown out. <BR>
<BR>
So if *any* data from the Judges Guild matches later stuff, it's pure<BR>
co-incidence. <BR>
<BR>
Some othewr sectors also became non-canon around that time. But I'm not<BR>
sure if they went as far as throwing out the star positions.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:24:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Uuhhh, I don't think you can go over a 100% of anything.....The proof could<BR>
> be as high as 200 making it 100% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
It's a *joke*...<BR>
<BR>
And it's "justified" by having part of the brewing process happen in<BR>
"hyperspace". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:08:23 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Mire Run (both parts)<BR>
<BR>
In message <38CE9301.7BDA6880@pharmacy.arizona.edu>, Bruce Johnson<BR>
<johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes<BR>
><BR>
>The old adage about the lack of old, bold pilots doesn't seem to apply. <BR>
><BR>
>To him, that is...there have been a few of his passengers who have<BR>
>failed to come back, but he's sure it was _their_ fault, they simply<BR>
>weren't tough enough to survive the fifteen day hike back out of the<BR>
>mountains when the plane broke.<BR>
<BR>
Oh come on - it's obvious he ate them!<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2119<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2120</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/18/00 6:42:31 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2120<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Guinness<BR>
Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Murphy's?<BR>
Re: Guinness (was: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?)<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Laphroaig<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:17:47 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/16/00 1:42 PM, Jesse LaBranche<BR>
Vanquer@email.msn.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Wow Doug!<BR>
> <BR>
> You illustrated that point very will, however...<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, Doug has posted some really awesome stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> I am amazed that you really made everything so nice and tight<BR>
> dealing with everything being produced in the 80's. I would have<BR>
> thought the challenge to be much greater.<BR>
<BR>
I hadn't thought of that, although my first thought was that I doubt the<BR>
magazine would survive millennia. ;)<BR>
<BR>
> Since the Ancients seemed to span a HUGE span of time, we<BR>
> would have to account for the fact that much of the findings could<BR>
> be from older or more recent findings as well.<BR>
<BR>
Very good point, something to think about for the scout campaign I am<BR>
working on.<BR>
<BR>
> I mean imagine when we find an Ancients' museum or a place<BR>
> that was settled and rebuilt multiple times. Areas that they played<BR>
> with, reformed, then played with again several different times.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, both by actual Anchients, Droyne, or test races, maybe even other<BR>
random cultures, considering the timespan. Not to mention other *Major*<BR>
wars, natural disasters, etc.<BR>
<BR>
> It is inconceivable (to me) that Ancients researchers could even<BR>
> begin to put different objects of varying TL's together into any real<BR>
> cohesive fashion to reconstruct anything even remotely similar to<BR>
> Ancient society at any given time.<BR>
<BR>
And the researchers are not receiving this data in a vacuum, there are many<BR>
other ruins with high tech artifacts that may in no way be related to the<BR>
Ancients, Droyne or one of their test races. With the Droynes stated<BR>
diversity of tech approach, they would be hard to pick out from all the<BR>
other reports.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:19:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
- --- "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com> wrote:<BR>
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:40:23 PST, Leonard Erickson<BR>
> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > In mail you write:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > I'm actually not fighting cannon.T. is great<BR>
> > > fiction.But fiction is not supposed to hold<BR>
> water<BR>
> > > agaainst logic(why should it?If you are willing<BR>
> to<BR>
> > > accept antigrav,reaktionless thrusters and so<BR>
> on,a<BR>
> > > little unrealism in history and archeology<BR>
> shouldn't matter).<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Sorry, but the whole *point* of Science Fiction<BR>
> being seperate from<BR>
> > Fantasy is that in SF the internal logic *must* be<BR>
> consistent. Some<BR>
> > fantasy (often called "hard fantasy" by analogy to<BR>
> "hard SF") follows<BR>
> > this rule.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you're  right.<BR>
And no, the most popular SF (exp. on TV) ignores<BR>
internal logic.E.G.Star Treks miracle machine.<BR>
(I think they called it " Transporter" or something<BR>
like that)<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:32:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is<BR>
> from the<BR>
> > > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features<BR>
> a<BR>
> > > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> > > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but<BR>
> that was<BR>
> > > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried<BR>
> to<BR>
> > > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> > > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
> christianity.<BR>
> <BR>
> Pity about the weird comma placement and the lack of<BR>
> spaces after some <BR>
> full-stops.<BR>
<BR>
You really trying hard to amuse  me,and you're getting<BR>
results ,even if it's actually a pity that you<BR>
desperatly trying to make this a spelling contest,but<BR>
that's everything you can reply.Your really a soory existence.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:39:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
> >YOU ARE WRONG!<BR>
> >I made one.An "a" in "actually" is missing!<BR>
> >> > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is<BR>
> from<BR>
> >> the<BR>
> >> > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it<BR>
> features a<BR>
> >> > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> >> > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but<BR>
> that<BR>
> >> was<BR>
> >> > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually<BR>
> tried<BR>
> >> to<BR>
> >> > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> >> > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
> >> christianity.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> That's the only one you spotted?<BR>
> <BR>
> I count 4 spelling mistakes, 7 missing spaces, 2<BR>
> transposed spaces and<BR>
> punctuation marks. and 4 debatable missing capitals.<BR>
> That's 17 mistakes in<BR>
> 62 words,<BR>
<BR>
You really have much time,and nothing better do do<BR>
(and to say,but that's been clear before).You are<BR>
really entertaining!<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:40:16 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Mar 00, at 21:53, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 35 kg Parachute ; 0.035t, KCr 1<BR>
<BR>
Let me guess, this is a sop towards safety regs. I can't see much use <BR>
for it. For the truely suicidal: How many more Gs without the 'chute?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:44:31 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
Katharine [Ian] Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Maximum speed of 1050 km per hour, accelerating to that speed with 87<BR>
> seconds of thrust. A total thrust-time of 172 seconds is provided. <BR>
<BR>
So if you use 87 seconds of fuel getting it up to 1050 kph<BR>
you only have 85 seconds of fuel left. If you _instantly_<BR>
decelerate from this top speed you will be still be<BR>
going at 1050/87 * [87-85] going at 24 kph when you run out of<BR>
fuel. If you ever accelerated or decelerated any slower than<BR>
the maximum rate or if you ever coasted you will be going faster<BR>
than that when you crash.<BR>
<BR>
> Fuelled by 100 kg of hypergolic fuel, this baby tests the <BR>
> pilot to the absolute limit.<BR>
<BR>
I believe this is what the phrase "test to destruction" means.<BR>
<BR>
It's nice to see Famile Spofulum keeping up their usual high<BR>
product quality.<BR>
<BR>
Remind me again does Famile Spofulum trace its ancestry<BR>
back to their immigration from Europe to South America (Paraguay <BR>
or Argentina perhaps) circa -2,575 but does not discuss their <BR>
earlier history?<BR>
<BR>
> (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
> Favorite Gloop")<BR>
<BR>
I thought Ditzie's favorite gloop was the unholy mix of Scout<BR>
Brew, DNA resequencers, Neurotransmitters, and slow drug<BR>
she relies on to help maintain her "Seven year old IQ 300 Dr <BR>
Frankenstein with a speech impediment on crystal meth" <BR>
personality?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:43:18 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Mar 00, at 3:32, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is<BR>
> > from the<BR>
> > > > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it features<BR>
> > a<BR>
> > > > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> > > > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but<BR>
> > that was<BR>
> > > > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually tried<BR>
> > to<BR>
> > > > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
> > > > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
> > christianity.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Pity about the weird comma placement and the lack of<BR>
> > spaces after some <BR>
> > full-stops.<BR>
> <BR>
> You really trying hard to amuse  me,and you're getting<BR>
> results ,even if it's actually a pity that you<BR>
> desperatly trying to make this a spelling contest,but<BR>
> that's everything you can reply.Your really a soory existence.<BR>
<BR>
What you said above was actually slightly interesting, even if I don't <BR>
entirely agree with it, but I can't be bothered with it, as it's just <BR>
too much of a hastle reading it for full content. If you'd use standard <BR>
punctuation most of the critism of your writing would disappear. It's <BR>
as simple as that.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:43:47 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
<BR>
> You should try to find the book<BR>
> "Camelot 30K" written by<BR>
> Robert L. Forward.<BR>
><BR>
> This book desribes first contact with an alien species living in the<BR>
> Oort Cloud. This is native life living at a temperature of -30,000 C<BR>
<BR>
Huh ?<BR>
<BR>
Absolute zero is only -273 C.<BR>
Even in the Oort cloud it's not going to go below that naturally, and it's<BR>
even theorized that it's impossible to reach it short of the heat death of<BR>
the universe.<BR>
<BR>
And Bob Forward would know that.<BR>
<BR>
What would a temperature below absolute zero mean anyway ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:18:27 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Guinness<BR>
<BR>
The current president of Guinnes was on Fox News Friday.<BR>
He mentioned something very interesting about the St. James<BR>
Gate Brewery.  How long is the lease for? 7,000 years!!!!<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
Guinness Drinker for Life or Liver (whichever ends first)<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> --- Alan Bradley <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
> >> From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
> >> Thanks...Happy St Patricks day all...<BR>
> >><BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Mike<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Guinness is evil.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I will rephrase that:  many, many pints of Guinness is evil.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, since there can be no good without evil, the reverse is also true.  Therefore, Guinness is good.<BR>
><BR>
> Many, many pints of Guinness are therefore also good.<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.guinness.ie/<BR>
><BR>
> ==<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
><BR>
> _____________________________________________________________<BR>
> _________________________________________<BR>
> eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:14:00 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:12:14 +1300<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
><BR>
>On 17 Mar 00, at 20:02, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >> In mail you write:<BR>
>> >> > a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The<BR>
>> > idea<BR>
>> >> > was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
>> >><BR>
>> >> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and<BR>
Aluminum.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Uhoh. Leonard, you may have just triggered another American-versus-<BR>
>> > English thread. In the UK, it's AluminIUM. Just like Lanthanium. ;-)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Doesn't matter. The International Chemical Union has the official name as<BR>
>> "Aluminum".<BR>
><BR>
>Obviously a Yankocentirc organisation.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has adopted a<BR>
standard for English Spelling which is British English with 2 exceptions:<BR>
The US spelling of Sulfur (not Sulphur) is used.<BR>
Words with s or z options (like organization/organisation) use the z<BR>
spelling.<BR>
<BR>
ie. Correct spelling is Aluminium, Lanthanum<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:24:33 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
>>On Behalf Of >>houstonshocky@webtv.net <BR>
>>You should try to find the book<BR>
>>"Camelot 30K" written by<BR>
>>Robert L. Forward. <BR>
<BR>
>>This book describes first contact with an<BR>
>>alien species living in the Oort Cloud.<BR>
>>This is native life living at a temperature<BR>
>>of -30,000 C <BR>
<BR>
>Huh ? <BR>
<BR>
>Absolute zero is only -273 C. <BR>
<BR>
>Even in the Oort cloud it's not going to<BR>
>go below that naturally, and it's even<BR>
>theorized that it's impossible to reach it<BR>
>short of the heat death of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
>And Bob Forward would know that. <BR>
<BR>
>What would a temperature below<BR>
>absolute zero mean anyway ? <BR>
<BR>
>Frankie <BR>
 <BR>
Excerpt from book: p50<BR>
<BR>
"The third part in the camp contained the buried nuclear reactor that<BR>
supplied the power needed to run the base and make the liquid oxygen and<BR>
hydrogen rocket fuel they were going to need to take off again.<BR>
Fortunately, since the temperature on the surface of ICE never varied by<BR>
more than a few degrees around 30K, there was no problem keeping the<BR>
fuels in a liquid state. Since oxygen solidified at 55K, and hydrogen<BR>
boiled at 20K, a small refrigerator unit that took heat from the<BR>
hydrogen storage tank and put it into the oxygen storage tank sufficed<BR>
to keep both fuels liquid."<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:27:32 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
At 08:24 AM 3/18/00, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Excerpt from book: p50<BR>
><BR>
>"The third part in the camp contained the buried nuclear reactor that<BR>
>supplied the power needed to run the base and make the liquid oxygen and<BR>
>hydrogen rocket fuel they were going to need to take off again.<BR>
>Fortunately, since the temperature on the surface of ICE never varied by<BR>
>more than a few degrees around 30K, there was no problem keeping the<BR>
>fuels in a liquid state. Since oxygen solidified at 55K, and hydrogen<BR>
>boiled at 20K, a small refrigerator unit that took heat from the<BR>
>hydrogen storage tank and put it into the oxygen storage tank sufficed<BR>
>to keep both fuels liquid."<BR>
><BR>
>-Shocky<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
         That's "K" for "Kelvin" which is another temperature scale.  Zero <BR>
Kelvin is Absolute Zero temp, or ~-273c.  So, 20K is ~-250c.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:34:25 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
k = kilo<BR>
C = Celsius<BR>
K = Calvin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 05:15:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On 18 Mar 00, at 3:32, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > > > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is<BR>
> > > from the<BR>
> > > > > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it<BR>
> features<BR>
> > > a<BR>
> > > > > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
> > > > > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary<BR>
> egyptian,but<BR>
> > > that was<BR>
> > > > > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually<BR>
> tried<BR>
> > > to<BR>
> > > > > revive the ancient culture,and had some<BR>
> success<BR>
> > > > > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
> > > christianity.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Pity about the weird comma placement and the<BR>
> lack of<BR>
> > > spaces after some <BR>
> > > full-stops.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > You really trying hard to amuse  me,and you're<BR>
> getting<BR>
> > results ,even if it's actually a pity that you<BR>
> > desperatly trying to make this a spelling<BR>
> contest,but<BR>
> > that's everything you can reply.Your really a<BR>
> soory existence.<BR>
> <BR>
> What you said above was actually slightly<BR>
> interesting<BR>
<BR>
In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:21:59 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
>What would you hope to accomplish by<BR>
>such a "second stage" jump anyhow?<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking a second jump could either extend the jump range (two J1<BR>
drives combined to make a J3 jump distance) or shorten the time of the<BR>
jump (take 1 day instead of a week)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:57:55 -0600<BR>
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 8:55 AM -0600 3/17/2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 07:41 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>The only ones claiming to be superior on this list are<BR>
>>some silly people who simply confuse different<BR>
>>opinions with arrogance,after trying to transform a<BR>
>>debate about<BR>
>>  game design in a spelling contest,proving that<BR>
>>they're wrong.<BR>
><BR>
>1. You are the one continually bringing up superiority. You take every<BR>
>dissenting opinion, no matter how it is phrased, as a personal attack. You<BR>
>also seem to feel that you have some vantage point that we don't have.<BR>
>Since this list includes several Traveller writers, past and present, and<BR>
>Loren Wiseman as regular readers and contributors, I have to wonder were<BR>
>you get off with this.<BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity, why do you bother to keep arguing?  And why do<BR>
you put it on the list?  This kind of things seems like it should be<BR>
taken off-list after the fifth or sixth time.<BR>
<BR>
>2. Your grammar and spelling are so bad as to render your posts unreadable<BR>
>gibberish. We use English here, with American style usage as the default.<BR>
>Failure to follow that standard for communication results in you being seen<BR>
>as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
<BR>
This is kind of arrogant.  We do have non-Americans on this list and<BR>
this statement implies that they better use American-style English or<BR>
they're assholes.  I know that you don't mean that but you should be<BR>
careful what you say when you're cussing out this guy.<BR>
<BR>
Bolie IV<BR>
- -- <BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Bolie Williams IV<BR>
bolie@io.com<BR>
http://www.io.com/~bolie/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:05:30 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:14:00   Mark S Peace wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:12:14 +1300<BR>
>>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>>Subject: Re: Elementary spelling<BR>
>><BR>
>>On 17 Mar 00, at 20:02, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> In mail you write:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> > Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>> ><BR>
>>> >> In mail you write:<BR>
>>> >> > a metalic lattice consisting not of Platinum, but of Lanthanium. The<BR>
>>> > idea<BR>
>>> >> > was to produce a highly efficient power source.<BR>
>>> >><BR>
>>> >> just a note. It's LathanUM, not LanthanIUM. Like Platinum and<BR>
>Aluminum.<BR>
>>> ><BR>
>>> > Uhoh. Leonard, you may have just triggered another American-versus-<BR>
>>> > English thread. In the UK, it's AluminIUM. Just like Lanthanium. ;-)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Doesn't matter. The International Chemical Union has the official name as<BR>
>>> "Aluminum".<BR>
>><BR>
>>Obviously a Yankocentirc organisation.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has adopted a<BR>
>standard for English Spelling which is British English with 2 exceptions:<BR>
>The US spelling of Sulfur (not Sulphur) is used.<BR>
>Words with s or z options (like organization/organisation) use the z<BR>
>spelling.<BR>
><BR>
>ie. Correct spelling is Aluminium, Lanthanum<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
Except my drives use Lanthanium!!<BR>
    <BR>
<runs into the distance while manically laughing at the top of his voice><BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:28:56 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:57:55   Bolie Williams IV wrote:<BR>
>At 8:55 AM -0600 3/17/2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>>2. Your grammar and spelling are so bad as to render your posts unreadable<BR>
>>gibberish. We use English here, with American style usage as the default.<BR>
>>Failure to follow that standard for communication results in you being seen<BR>
>>as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
><BR>
>This is kind of arrogant.  We do have non-Americans on this list and<BR>
>this statement implies that they better use American-style English or<BR>
>they're assholes.  I know that you don't mean that but you should be<BR>
>careful what you say when you're cussing out this guy.<BR>
<BR>
This list also has some people (well, me for one) who are bad at spelling, mistype keys(or type in a hurry), suffer with poor grammar, and generally make mistakes, and would hope that the consequences of the failure to follow the above mentioned standard does not apply to them (err... me).  <BR>
<BR>
Please take this argument off the list. I like this list to be friendly place.<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
(Who is presently hacking all the chemical web sites in the world to change the spelling of Lanthanum to Lanthanium.)<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:33:05 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Murphy's?<BR>
<BR>
If Guiness is evil is Murphy's good? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:33:50 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Guinness (was: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?)<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like the old ad from the '40's(?) :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:30:19 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
houstonshocky@webtv.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Looking at a past issue of World War II magazine, I came across an<BR>
> article of the P-80 Twin Mustang. This is basically the joining of 2<BR>
> P-51d Mustangs (in the style of the P-38 Lightning "Fork Tailed Devil")<BR>
> in the hopes of increasing speed and firepower.<BR>
> <BR>
> What I am wondering is;<BR>
> What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined together then<BR>
> launched into jump space using one ship's jump drive, then in the jump,<BR>
> activating the other ship's jump drive ....<BR>
> <BR>
> Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
> catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
> Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
> <BR>
> Any opinions are welcome ;)<BR>
<BR>
Wowww... activating a second jump drive while in jump... what<BR>
fools would do that?  Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Of<BR>
course, if the referee likes the idea, then the referee can<BR>
decide what to do in those cases.<BR>
<BR>
I'd say everything gets destroyed, in a slow, painful way,<BR>
and random bits actually re-emerge into realspace.  Like the<BR>
sinking of a large ship, you know?  Everything starts failing,<BR>
fires break out, Van de Graff effects, electrocutions, fuel<BR>
tank breaches, hull breaching to jumpspace, everything slowly<BR>
getting swallowed up into jumpspace... all at once.  Imagine<BR>
the confusion and destruction.  Cooool.<BR>
<BR>
...and a lucky Traveller who found his EVA in time might live<BR>
to tell about it.  Maybe.  What skill would that be?  JOT?<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:39:51 -0600<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconn@i1.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Laphroaig<BR>
<BR>
I stand abashed, I concurr that it does look nice sitting there<BR>
on the bar, enticing you with it's lovely blue color.<BR>
It also has a very nice "nose" and color (the scotch that is).<BR>
<BR>
I'll stick with Laphroaig, though, as my favorite tiple.<BR>
<BR>
Must confess, however, that there are some rather nice<BR>
Welsh and Irish Whiskies as well.<BR>
(Do the 'Dew)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 3:56 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Laphroaig<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> How - I say HOW - could you miss out the magnificent Tobermory. Even<BR>
> the blue bottle looks good.<BR>
> <BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Pat<BR>
> > Connaughton<BR>
> > Sent: 16 March 2000 18:16<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > Subject: Re: Laphroaig<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Here! Here!<BR>
> > Top Single Malts:<BR>
> > 1.    Laphroaig<BR>
> > 2.    Dalas Dhu (30 yr) (sp?)<BR>
> > 3.    Glemorangie (25 yr)<BR>
> > 4.    Lagavulan<BR>
> > 5.    Abelour (15yr)<BR>
> > 6.    Oban<BR>
> > 7.    Balvenie<BR>
> > 8.    Dalmour (sp?)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > There are other choice possible but these are the right ones.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> > From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
> > To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:57 AM<BR>
> > Subject: Laphroaig<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a<BR>
> > fireplace....<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > MJD<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2120<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2121<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Cats & Rats Map of Terra<BR>
Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
[OT] The Amazing Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Here's another try for T5.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:55:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
I take refuge in the fact that I'm on some really good pain killer. The<BR>
finest kind there is, *free*, with multiple refills. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Thom<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Uuhhh, I don't think you can go over a 100% of anything.....The proof<BR>
could<BR>
> be as high as 200 making it 100% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
It's a *joke*...<BR>
<BR>
And it's "justified" by having part of the brewing process happen in<BR>
"hyperspace".<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:27:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cats & Rats Map of Terra<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/17/00 6:16 AM, Holger Kadlez paradin@gmx.de<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, it has. And there are some differences between our days map and this one.<BR>
> <BR>
> Anybody wants me to scan it ?<BR>
<BR>
Uh...yeah. You really have to ask?<BR>
<BR>
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/<BR>
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:28:18 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if anyone has a copy of the appropriate Alien Module, I'd<BR>
appreciate it if you could look and see if there are any Chirper (or<BR>
Droyne!) worlds in the Solomani Rim.  Drop me a line here or in<BR>
private if you think you can pin down the locations of any.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:34:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/17/00 7:41 AM, john hamilton<BR>
johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
>> As for the 'boy' crack, I'm 32, 6'2", 300lb,<BR>
>> You are...?<BR>
> <BR>
> ....not remotly as childish as you,as it seems.<BR>
<BR>
Please stop being such a weenie John, you were asking for that one.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:35:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> That's easy - as the OTU is not about Yanks in Space it is about the<BR>
> British Empire in Space, and thus there are Pugilists, but not Pro<BR>
> Wrestlers. QED.<BR>
<BR>
No way. The OTU is all about the Roman Empire in space. So, as far as sports<BR>
go, it's time to fire up the ol' chariot and start starving the lions.<BR>
<BR>
"Oh Strephon, we who are about to die (in chargen) salute you!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:20:57 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:22:07 +0100<BR>
>From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
>Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
><BR>
>At 19:13 17.03.00 -0800, James W. Lindsay wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>What would you hope to accomplish by such a "second stage" jump anyhow?<BR>
><BR>
>Come on! That's a Vilani's question!<BR>
>:-)<BR>
><BR>
>Solomani just do it because it's possible, playful apes that we are.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	To infinity... and beyond, right?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:30:49 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:44:31 -0900<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
><BR>
>Katharine [Ian] Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote<BR>
><BR>
>> Maximum speed of 1050 km per hour, accelerating to that speed with 87<BR>
>> seconds of thrust. A total thrust-time of 172 seconds is provided.<BR>
><BR>
>So if you use 87 seconds of fuel getting it up to 1050 kph<BR>
>you only have 85 seconds of fuel left. If you _instantly_<BR>
>decelerate from this top speed you will be still be<BR>
>going at 1050/87 * [87-85] going at 24 kph when you run out of<BR>
>fuel. If you ever accelerated or decelerated any slower than<BR>
>the maximum rate or if you ever coasted you will be going faster<BR>
>than that when you crash.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Atmospheric drag...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> Fuelled by 100 kg of hypergolic fuel, this baby tests the<BR>
>> pilot to the absolute limit.<BR>
><BR>
>I believe this is what the phrase "test to destruction" means.<BR>
><BR>
>It's nice to see Famile Spofulum keeping up their usual high<BR>
>product quality.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of<BR>
one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Remind me again does Famile Spofulum trace its ancestry<BR>
>back to their immigration from Europe to South America (Paraguay<BR>
>or Argentina perhaps) circa -2,575 but does not discuss their<BR>
>earlier history?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Recent developments on the DeadLands list have cast some<BR>
interesting light on the origins of the Famille...  see next post.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
>> Favorite Gloop")<BR>
><BR>
>I thought Ditzie's favorite gloop was the unholy mix of Scout<BR>
>Brew, DNA resequencers, Neurotransmitters, and slow drug<BR>
>she relies on to help maintain her "Seven year old IQ 300 Dr<BR>
>Frankenstein with a speech impediment on crystal meth"<BR>
>personality?<BR>
<BR>
	You left out the Flintsones chewable vitamins...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:45:18 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: [OT] The Amazing Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
<BR>
	This post, recently recovered from the DeadLands Mailing List,<BR>
shines some interesting light on the origins of Famille Spofulam...<BR>
<BR>
	Basically, a while back our gaming group flirted briefly with<BR>
DeadLands, a rather entertaining RPG set in a Wild West where superatural<BR>
evil and the game designer's sense of humour have been set loose to<BR>
humanity's detriment.  It's worth playing in small doses.  The combat<BR>
system is IMHO excellent, as are most of its other rule systems.  It also<BR>
has rules for designing "Mad Scientists"' (yes, they are a character class)<BR>
"Gizmos"; or technological devices.<BR>
<BR>
	I set out to prove that FF&S2 was vastly superior to those rules.<BR>
Hence the following.  Stats are in Deadlandsese, but are easily<BR>
decipherable.  Some of the rules & tables are of course part of the joke...<BR>
In and of itself, it's an interesting example of TL-4/5 SMG:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The Strange New Shooting Iron:<BR>
><BR>
>	The Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine is a bulky, heavy and ugly weapon<BR>
>approximately two feet long overall with a one-foot barrel.  It has a<BR>
>rosewood forestock, stock, and a separate pistol grip.  The weapon's<BR>
>proportions look strange.  Its receiver is oddly bulky, with an ejection<BR>
>slot on the left-hand side.  Its two most obvious features are its<BR>
>magazine, (a large, inverted, triangular-shaped affair approximately one<BR>
>foot on each side) which projects from the top of the receiver.  The top<BR>
>is hinged, and opens to accept 40 .45 rounds in an odd, chute-like<BR>
>mechanism.  The magazine is an integral part of the receiver and cannot be<BR>
>removed without dismantling the weapon.  The second most obvious is a<BR>
>crank projecting from the left-hand side of a strange-looking cylindrical<BR>
>housing, roughly four inches across and four wide, slung under the forward<BR>
>end of the receiver.  What appears to be a brass bearing cover or button<BR>
>covers the end of the crankshaft.  Engraved on the right-hand side of the<BR>
>reciever are some Chinese ideograms.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Name: Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
><BR>
>Shots:			40<BR>
>Speed:			5 (to crank) 2 (if already cranked) 1 once firing<BR>
>ROF:			8 (max; see below)<BR>
>Damage:			3d6<BR>
>Range increment:	5<BR>
>Price:			Special; see Marshal's Notes<BR>
>Reliability:		Special; see Marshal's Notes<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Clockwork Carbine Rate of Fire Table<BR>
><BR>
>Actions spent Cranking		ROF<BR>
>	5			1d4+4<BR>
>	4			1d4+2<BR>
>	3			1d4<BR>
>	2			1d4-1<BR>
>	1			1d4-2<BR>
><BR>
>Each Action spent firing subtracts an Action spent cranking.  Thus if five<BR>
>actions are spent cranking and one firing, the ROF roll the next turn<BR>
>should be 1d4+2.  If the crank is not disengaged, the ROF roll result<BR>
>should be halved.  A ROF roll of zero indicates that due to various<BR>
>mechanical reasons the Clockwork Carbine did not actually fire a round<BR>
>that turn.  A negative ROF roll should be treated as a ROF roll of zero,<BR>
>i.e. it does not carry  a penalty over into the next turn.<BR>
><BR>
[spoiler space snipped]<BR>
>Marshal's Notes<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>	Ever wonder what happens to those Gizmo-making rolls where<BR>
>everything Goes Bust from Concoting the Theory to Constructing the Device?<BR>
>The Clockwork Carbine is designed to be a source of endless frustration<BR>
>and bodily harm to Posse characters, not to mention trouble, expense, and<BR>
>collateral damage.  The magazine capacity and ROF stats should attract<BR>
>Munchkins like honey draws flies... and serve them right.  Clever Marshals<BR>
>will dribble out its shortcomings one by one, hoping that the players will<BR>
>spend endless time and money working on learning to use it and trying to<BR>
>overcome its flaws.  If the Marshal is really lucky, the Posse will<BR>
>actually try and use it in a combat situation.<BR>
><BR>
>	Po Fu Lam was a brilliant Iron Dragon railway engineer (whose<BR>
>father was a watchmaker).   As a hobby, he spent many long hours<BR>
>conceiving and designing the Clockwork Carbine, and eventually built six<BR>
>of them.  However, his idea had many flaws, he knew little about guns, and<BR>
>he wasn't that good with clockwork or ergonomics either...<BR>
><BR>
>	Enraged over a perceived loss of face when his superior mocked his<BR>
>brainchild, he defected to Wasatch.  However, partway there, he was<BR>
>abducted by aliens for use in a breeding program, never to be seen again<BR>
>(this is an inside joke; don't ask).<BR>
><BR>
>	The Posse sees strange lights in the sky one night and hears<BR>
>distant gunfire.  Upon investigation, they encounter Po Fu Lam's wagon<BR>
>deserted on the trail.  There are some wierd scorch marks (a circle about<BR>
>100' across) on the ground nearby, and a strange-looking weapon (a<BR>
>Clockwork Carbine) lies empty on the ground near the wagon, surrounded by<BR>
>two dozen spent .45 casings.  Some drying greenish ooze (Alien Gore!) is<BR>
>spattered about.  This is just misdirection; Po Fu Lam is light-years away<BR>
>and is not coming back.<BR>
><BR>
>	Upon investigation, the wagon is found to contain a carpet bag with<BR>
>some clothing, toilet items, and chopsticks, some grub, and hidden under<BR>
>some buffalo robes and miscellaneous junk in the back, five cases, each<BR>
>containing a single Clockwork Carbine.  There are also 2000 rounds of .45<BR>
>ammunition in the wagon (just in case the Posse doesn't have any<BR>
>compatible ammo) and a case of engineer's drafting tools (Po Fu Lam lost<BR>
>the blueprints in the last brothel he visited).  When the Posse starts<BR>
>playing with the Clockwork Carbines, operate them as per the Unvarnished<BR>
>Truth below.  This should keep them busy for a while and with luck kill<BR>
>some of them.  Further investigation should reveal that the Chinese<BR>
>characters read "Spring Tooth Wheel Fast Shoot Gun made by Po Fu Lam".<BR>
><BR>
>	If you want to torment them even further, have Kang's men hot on Po<BR>
>Fu Lam's trail, and some of Dr. Hellstromme's enforcers looking for him<BR>
>too.  To boot, both the Pinkertons and the Texas Rangers have got wind<BR>
>that a Chinaman with some mighty strange shootin' irons is wanderin'<BR>
>about...  you get the picture.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>	Here's the Unvarnished Truth on the Clockwork Carbine:<BR>
><BR>
>	Firstly, the weapon cannot be accurately aimed. The gravity feed<BR>
>magazine has the disadavantage of protruding from the top of the weapon,<BR>
>and obscuring the shooter's view to the front.  Po Fu Lam realized this,<BR>
>and had designed an Amazing Periscopic Sight, but didn't get around to<BR>
>building one before he defected.  So not only is it impossible to Draw A<BR>
>Bead (no aiming bonuses are allowed), but characters with a shouldered<BR>
>Clockwork Carbine suffer -2 on all rolls related to forward vision.<BR>
><BR>
>	Secondly, the mechanism is cranky in many senses of the word.  See<BR>
>the Mishap table for details.<BR>
><BR>
>	Thirdly, it was designed by a left-handed engineer for left-handed<BR>
>shooters.  Right-handed characters firing it in sustained bursts will<BR>
>suffer a -1 on their Shootin' rolls as a distracting stream of spent brass<BR>
>is ejected past their faces.  The primitive ejection mechanism of the<BR>
>Clockwork Carbine does not eject cartridge cases in a consistent manner,<BR>
>and occasionally a spent round will strike the character in the face.  If<BR>
>tthe character is wearing a broad-brimmed hat, he will suffer a -2 on his<BR>
>Shootin' roll as the empty cases bounce off the underside of his hat brim.<BR>
>Also, see the crank, below.<BR>
><BR>
>	Fourthly, it is crank-driven.  This means that it the clockwork<BR>
>mechanism has run down, the Clockwork Carbine will not fire, and actions<BR>
>must be spent winding it up.  The more actions spent, the higher the<BR>
>probable rate of fire will be...   In order to crank the Clockwork<BR>
>Carbine, the character must make a Strength roll (TN 5).  Failure means<BR>
>that the character did not manage to successfully wind the crank with that<BR>
>action.  Sadistic Marshals, under stressful circumstances, may insist that<BR>
>characters make Strength rolls for each action spent cranking....<BR>
><BR>
>Clockwork Carbine Rate of Fire Table<BR>
><BR>
>Actions  spent Cranking			ROF<BR>
>	5				1d4+4<BR>
>	4				1d4+2<BR>
>	3				1d4<BR>
>	2				1d4-1<BR>
>	1				1d4-2<BR>
><BR>
>Each Action spent firing subtracts an Action spent cranking.  Thus if five<BR>
>actions are spent cranking and one firing, the ROF roll the next turn<BR>
>should be 1d4+2.  If the crank is not disengaged, the ROF roll result<BR>
>should be halved.  A ROF roll of zero indicates that due to various<BR>
>mechanical reasons the Clockwork Carbine did not actually fire a round<BR>
>that turn.  A negative ROF roll should be treated as a ROF roll of zero,<BR>
>i.e. it does not carry  a penalty over into the next turn.  Where ROF is<BR>
>zero, the Clockwork Mechanism continues to wind down.<BR>
><BR>
>	Fifthly, if the crank is not disengaged (by depressing the button<BR>
>on the end of the crankshaft), the crank handle will spin at a high rate<BR>
>of speed while firing, and the ROF roll should be divided by two.  The<BR>
>spinning crank handle will have a severe effect on Shootin' rolls (-4<BR>
>initially, -3 the next turn, -2 the next, and so on).  If disengaged, the<BR>
>crank handle will not spin and no Shootin' penalty will be suffered.<BR>
><BR>
>	The spinning crank is not dangerous for left-handed shooters, as it<BR>
>is mounted on the left-hand side of the Carbine and can spin without risk<BR>
>of injury to the shooter.  Po Fu Lam implemented the crank disengagement<BR>
>button only to stabilize the Carbine for aiming purposes.  However,<BR>
>right-handed shooters must roll 1d4 when firing with the crank handle<BR>
>engaged; on a 1-3 they will suffer damage as per the Gettin' Yer Left Arm<BR>
>Caught in the Durn Gizmo table below:<BR>
><BR>
>Gettin' Yer Left Arm Caught in the Durn Gizmo Table<BR>
><BR>
>Turns spent Cranking	Damage inflicted on Left Arm<BR>
>	5			1d6+2<BR>
>	4			1d6+1<BR>
>	3			1d6<BR>
>	2			1d4<BR>
>	1			0<BR>
><BR>
>	Wind is applied as with normal damage.  Should the character be<BR>
>injured by the crank, he must make a Hard Deftness roll or drop the<BR>
>weapon.  Dropping will add an additional +1 penalty to any Reliability<BR>
>rolls.  Fortunately, the weapon will stop firing when dropped as the<BR>
>magazine is no longer vertical (unless, of course, it has become infested<BR>
>by Gremlins, in which case it will continue to fire in all directions<BR>
>until empty).<BR>
><BR>
>	Sixthly, the gravity feed magazine is persnickety and has to be<BR>
>held just so, i.e. vertical, to work.  Characters shooting at targets more<BR>
>than 20 degrees from horizontal must subtract 3 from their ROF roll, and<BR>
>the weapon will not fire at all at 45 degrees or greater from<BR>
>horizontal... the clockwork mechanism, however, still continues to wind<BR>
>down.  The Clockwork Carbine is therefore completely useless against Devil<BR>
>Bats, riflemen on rooftops, Wall Crawlers, and the like.  Sadistic<BR>
>Marshals will let the Posse figure this out for themselves... the hard<BR>
>way.<BR>
><BR>
>	One way to increase the weapon's reliability is to carefully gauge<BR>
>the ammo being loaded, ensuring that it fits precise tolerances.  As ammo<BR>
>quality control was spotty back in the 1870's, not all rounds measure up<BR>
>to the degree of perfection required by the Clockwork Carbine.  Po Fu Lam<BR>
>used a micrometer caliper (which is among his drafting tools) for this<BR>
>purpose.  The Posse information reliability stat for the Clockwork Carbine<BR>
>assumes that this is being done.  Marshals should add +3 to any<BR>
>Reliability roll should the character not carefully measure the ammo being<BR>
>loaded into it.<BR>
><BR>
>	Seventhly, with the large flat magazine and crank handle, it is<BR>
>totally impossible to conceal, prone to getting caught in underbrush,<BR>
>clothing, and the like, and is bulky, clumsy, and slow.  Even the greenest<BR>
>tinhorn could beat a character packin a Clockwork Carbine to the draw...<BR>
>with a Buntline Special.  It is also darn heavy (nearly 14 pounds when<BR>
>loaded) and cannot be holstered.  For reasons that should be immediately<BR>
>apparent there is no provision for gunsling attachment (and Sadistic<BR>
>Marshals take note, makeshift slings would be prone to Gettin' Caught in<BR>
>the Durn Gizmo and taking forever to untangle), and due to its weight and<BR>
>odd balance, it is uncomfortable to carry for extended periods of time.<BR>
>Encumbrance rules should be applied to the letter.<BR>
><BR>
>	Eightly, the Clockwork Carbine is a Gremlin magnet.  Gremlins add<BR>
>+1 to their infestation roll, and if the weapon is brought within 10 yards<BR>
>of a Gremlin-infested device, add +3 to the infestation roll.  Gremlins<BR>
>will generally attempt to make the weapon fail or operate in lethal ways...<BR>
><BR>
>	Ninthly, it fires black powder ammo.  This means that for every<BR>
>sixty rounds fired between cleanings, +1 must be added to the reliability<BR>
>roll.  In addition, it creates dense clouds of gunsmoke; subtract -1 from<BR>
>any vision rolls for every ten rounds fired at once (this cloud dissipates<BR>
>in a few seconds if not replenished by further firing).  Three or four<BR>
>Clockwork Carbines being emptied all at once should effectively blind the<BR>
>shooters for a few actions...<BR>
><BR>
>	Tenthly, the recoil is brutal.  If a character, attempting to keep<BR>
>his arm out of the crank, tries firing it one-handed and gets a high ROF,<BR>
>inflict damage as dramatically appropriate, or have him drop the Clockwork<BR>
>Carbine...<BR>
><BR>
>	Eleventhly, because of the Clockwork Carbine's odd design, TN's<BR>
>relating to cleaning it, repairing it, improving it, or using it as the<BR>
>inspiration for something a little bit more reliable are at +3.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine Mishap Table<BR>
><BR>
>The basic Reliability number for the weapon is 16.  Given the special<BR>
>nature of the weapon, roll a d20 for mishaps should one occur.<BR>
><BR>
>Roll 	Result<BR>
><BR>
>1	Ammo does not feed for rest of round; no shots fired<BR>
>2	Ammo does not feed for rest of round; no shots fired<BR>
>3	Ammo does not feed for rest of round; no shots fired,<BR>
>	re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>4	Jam<BR>
>5	Jam, re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>6	Round stuck in Magazine<BR>
>7	Round stuck in Magazine, re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>9	Clockwork Mechanism Jam<BR>
>10	Clockwork Mechanism Jam, re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>11	Severe Clockwork Mechanism Jam, re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>12	Crank re-engages<BR>
>13	Crank re-engages<BR>
>14	Crank re-engages, re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>15	Run-on firing<BR>
>16	Run-on firing, Crank re-engages,<BR>
>17	Run-on-firing, Crank re-engages, re-roll on Mishap Table<BR>
>18	Clockwork Mechanism breaks, requiring fabrication of new parts<BR>
>19	Clockwork Mechanism breaks, spraying gears everywhere (1d10<BR>
> 	damage to shooter; roll 1d6 for each bystander: hit on 6)<BR>
>20	Weapon explodes (2d10 damage as per explosion rules)<BR>
><BR>
>Explanation:<BR>
><BR>
>* Ammo does not feed for rest of round; no shots fired: That dang gravity<BR>
>feed magazine just didn't deliver any rounds into the receiver; Clockwork<BR>
>Mechanism continues to unwind.<BR>
><BR>
>* Jam: the weapon jams normally (about the only thing it does do normally).<BR>
><BR>
>* Round stuck in Magazine: That dang gravity feed magazine has to be<BR>
>emptied and reloaded before the weapon will work again.<BR>
><BR>
>* Clockwork Mechanism Jam: treat as normal jam, save that character must<BR>
>fix by banging the Clockwork Mechanism housing or turning the crank.  On<BR>
>Severe Clockwork Mechanism Jam, a Hard Tinkerin' roll must be spent dis-<BR>
>and re- assemblin' the Clockwork Mechanism.  Failures add 1 to the TN of<BR>
>subsequent rolls.  Goin' Bust results in an automatic Mishap of 18 >:).<BR>
><BR>
>* Crank re-engages: The crank re-engages and begins spinning wildly,<BR>
>affecting aim and ROF and causing rolls on the Gettin' Yer Left Arm Caught<BR>
>in the Durn Gizmo Table as above.<BR>
><BR>
>* Run-on firing: The weapon fires until empty, even if the trigger is<BR>
>released.  Effect ceases while weapon is held so that magazine does not<BR>
>feed vertically, but firing resumes once levelled again.  Note that<BR>
>Gremlin infestation will tend to make it continue to fire regardless of<BR>
>weapon orientation.<BR>
><BR>
>* Clockwork Mechanism breaks: That delicate mechanism just gave up the<BR>
>ghost, more or less violently...<BR>
><BR>
>* Weapon explodes: Reasonably self-evident.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Here's the Fire Fusion & Steel worksheet for those interested:<BR>
><BR>
>Evaluation<BR>
><BR>
>Length:			65 cm<BR>
>Bulk:				3<BR>
>Mass (Loaded):			6.45 kg<BR>
>Range:				112 meters<BR>
>Trav damage:			3.29<BR>
>Recoil:			8<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Round:<BR>
><BR>
>Caliber:			11.56 mm X 33 mm rimmed<BR>
>Bullet base area:		104.95 mm^2<BR>
>Rated muzzle energy:		600 joules<BR>
>Propellant volume:		857.14 mm^3<BR>
>Bullet length:			11.56 mm<BR>
>Round length:			33 mm<BR>
>Round mass:			34.63 grams<BR>
>Ideal barrel length:		10 cm<BR>
><BR>
>Barrel:  30 cm heavy rifled<BR>
>Barrel length modifer:		2<BR>
>Mass:				0.9 kg<BR>
>Actual muzzle energy:		1200 joules<BR>
><BR>
>Receiver: TL-4 full automatic, pistol grip, wooden stock<BR>
><BR>
>Length: 			35 cm<BR>
>Mass:				3.75 (including crank and clockwork<BR>
>					mechanism)<BR>
><BR>
>Feed: 40-round gravity-fed box<BR>
><BR>
>Mass (empty):			0.5 kg<BR>
>Mass (loaded):			1.8 kg<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:42:31 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
I didn't see any on the map on the end cover of the Droyne AM....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Good luck on the book...Looking forward to it...<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:46:33 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/18/00 10:44:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Qstor@aol.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I didn't see any on the map on the end cover of the Droyne AM....<BR>
<BR>
Exactly the source I was hoping someone had handy.  I didn't recall<BR>
any in the sector, but I don't have the book in my own possession, so<BR>
I figured I'd better double-check.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the quick response!<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:30:02<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
At 10:46 AM 3/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, liability is open and shut and we think we can prove some<BR>
>major damages, so we expect that, in desperation, they are going<BR>
>to try to summon a major demon -- that's why I've been on the<BR>
>phone to Hell so much lately, keeping the demons on our payroll.<BR>
> I may have to send a paralegal there for a sacrifice.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't that why you keep interns around?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:39:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
At 03:19 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, you're  right.<BR>
>And no, the most popular SF (exp. on TV) ignores<BR>
>internal logic.E.G.Star Treks miracle machine.<BR>
>(I think they called it " Transporter" or something<BR>
>like that)<BR>
<BR>
Traveller isn't Star Trek. It avoids grand sweeping miracle boxes in favor<BR>
of fairly hard science.  In fact, it appears that it may have been too<BR>
conservative in many regards!<BR>
<BR>
Contra-grav, Thrusters, the jump drive.. all of these just make the game a<BR>
bit easier. You could remove or change any of these and still have a good<BR>
SF game using Traveller. But it'd be harder.  Without CG, you have to worry<BR>
about escape velocities. Without the thrusters, you need to closely monitor<BR>
fuel and burns (something I liked about TNE, btw), without the jump drive,<BR>
you are either restricted to one star system, or you need to build another<BR>
reality-warping FTL system.<BR>
<BR>
However, saying "Traveller technology is consistent, therefore everybody<BR>
knows the Droyne were the Ancients" is a non-sequitor.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:46:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
At 01:36 PM 3/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>OB Trav:  What's "Danger Close" from Ortillery??<BR>
<BR>
In the same hemisphere.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:54:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
At 05:15 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
<BR>
That's it. John Hamilton has shown is his last few posts thaty he is a<BR>
troll, just trying to piss us of for his own amuesment. <BR>
<BR>
A meesage will be sent to his ISP complaining about this behavoir if it<BR>
doesn't stop in the next 24 hours. Mr. Hamilton, the ball is in your court.<BR>
You can play with the grown ups, or you can continue to be an ass.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:01:15 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Here's another try for T5.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, I'm just a drone in the caste system of my country,<BR>
so if you don't like what I write, you may disagree.  But<BR>
since this is the TML, we've all got an opportunity to<BR>
contribute, so if you can think of something better, then<BR>
post it.<BR>
<BR>
Here's an alternative to my original T5 line, which <BR>
actually looked like the CT and T4 line.  So here's<BR>
something different, more along the MT line.  If you<BR>
just want source material, perhaps you could just<BR>
get book 4; otherwise you can buy the boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
 * Solitaire play supported with most rules.<BR>
 * Summary pages and some flowcharts.<BR>
 * Appropriate, supporting artwork (Mark Cook & Jesse DeGraff)<BR>
 * Combat is fast, painful, and seamless with vehicles & ships.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Book 1. Player's Manual.                       93 usable pages<BR>
        Introduction to the milieu.             5 pp.<BR>
        Basic and Extended chargen for most    36 pp.<BR>
           character classes.<BR>
        Skills, life pursuits, tasks, etc       8 pp.<BR>
        Basic combat (man, machine, starship). 22 pp.<BR>
        Travelling details (SOM, economics..)  15 pp.<BR>
<BR>
Book 2. Referee's Manual.                      93 usable pages.<BR>
        Nobles.                                 5 pp.<BR>
        Psionics.                               8 pp.<BR>
        Animal encounters.                      5 pp.<BR>
        Starship construction.                 32 pp.<BR>
        Basic World creation rules.            10 pp.<BR>
        Milieu timeline.                        2 pp.<BR>
        Selected TAS newsfeeds 10 years        15 pp.<BR>
           into the milieu.<BR>
<BR>
Book 3. AAB.                                   93 usable pages.<BR>
        Equipment.                             24 pp.<BR>
        Combat Equipment.                      24 pp.<BR>
        Vehicle list/Ship broadsheets.         12 pp.<BR>
        Library Data.                          24 pp.<BR>
<BR>
Book 4. Battlefields of the Imperium.          93 usable pages.<BR>
        Introduction.                           4 pp.<BR>
        Selected TAS newsfeeds for the time     8 pp.<BR>
           period leading up to the milieu.<BR>
        Significant factions for the milieu.    8 pp.<BR>
           corporate, political, military<BR>
           leaders<BR>
        Battlefields.                          15 pp.<BR>
           fleet locations and constituents<BR>
        Large-scale combat.                    15 pp.<BR>
        Naval ship broadsheets.                24 pp.<BR>
<BR>
Additional Books:<BR>
<BR>
 * Fire, Fusion, and Steel, final version forever.<BR>
 <BR>
 * Guide to a particular chunk of the Imperium.<BR>
      A part of a sector map, followed by...<BR>
         major worlds for the region+milieu.<BR>
      Extended solar system generation?<BR>
      Starports<BR>
      Detailed Economics / Trade rules?<BR>
<BR>
 * Starship Deckplans.<BR>
      Additional modules, perhaps?<BR>
      Hooks for alternate tech, perhaps?<BR>
      Additional ships (from THUDDD!, forex)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2121<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2122</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2122<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Greece<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
"Danger Close" from Ortillery (was Re: Marines are Tough)<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
Astronomical questions...<BR>
Re: Historical Re-enactments (was some shouting nonesense)<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Massive Firepower<BR>
Re: publicity stunt for J class<BR>
Re: Online Sectors<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: [OT] The Amazing Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:05:21 -0500<BR>
From: Charter Internatioanal <sail1@delanet.com><BR>
Subject: Greece<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sailinggreece.com<BR>
<BR>
Discount Travel in Greece, Italy, and Mediterranean.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:01:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 01:02 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it been taken? What<BR>
>worlds are claimed so far?<BR>
<BR>
Heya/Regina    Doug Berry<BR>
Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell<BR>
Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann has stated that he is going to do a world with an ancient<BR>
site, but hasn't picked one yet.<BR>
<BR>
Somebody said that they wanted to do Capital/Core, but I've lost that message.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to do Glisten, fine with us.<BR>
<BR>
One thing I like about this is that the worlds chosen so far are off the<BR>
beaten track. It's nice to see the backwaters get a bit of attention.<BR>
<BR>
Since I seem to have landed the position of Chief Scout for this, I'll set<BR>
up a website for staking claims, then hosting the results.  Don't be afraid<BR>
the meddle with the planets to get results you like.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:09:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 03:05 PM 3/18/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>On 17 Mar 00, at 8:55, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> 2. Your grammar and spelling are so bad as to render your posts unreadable<BR>
>> gibberish. We use English here, with American style usage as the default.<BR>
>> Failure to follow that standard for communication results in you being<BR>
>> seen as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
><BR>
>You mean that all this time you Yanks have been only pretending to take <BR>
>us ex-Brits (and the Poms) seriously you've been calling us idiots <BR>
>behind our backs? Typical.<BR>
<BR>
Well, yes.<BR>
<BR>
After all, we do own the world.  Don't like American English? Well, see how<BR>
you like the USS Nimitz steaming into y'alls' waters! PAX AMERICANA!<BR>
Coca-Cola and McDonalds in Tibet! A STARBUCKS ON EVERY CORNER!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
I resent your implication that Americans are insensitive<BR>
to the culture of the unwashed, ignorant heathens that<BR>
populate the rest of the world. -Shawn Wilson, in a.f.m<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:11:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 07:57 AM 3/18/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>This is kind of arrogant.  We do have non-Americans on this list and<BR>
>this statement implies that they better use American-style English or<BR>
>they're assholes.  I know that you don't mean that but you should be<BR>
>careful what you say when you're cussing out this guy.<BR>
<BR>
My point was that the most common form of English =used here is the<BR>
American version. I have no trouble dealing with British spellings, but for<BR>
the most part, the slang and terminology is US-based.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:14:16<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
<BR>
At 02:28 AM 3/18/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I heard a similar story about a soldier (maybe a helicopter crewman).<BR>
>He was shot in the chin and the bullet travelled in a similar manner<BR>
>up his face, across the bridge of his nose, and exited just above his<BR>
>eyebrow. This may have been in Vietnam.<BR>
<BR>
Then there was the guy shot in the head by a .32 ACP. Awake and alert in<BR>
the ambulence, his nose starts bleeding. He sneezes, and out comes the<BR>
round.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:15:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Incidents<BR>
<BR>
At 02:43 PM 3/17/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>Doug,<BR>
><BR>
><< I keep a file of weird wounding incidents, just to point out how difficult<BR>
> it is to model all the bizarre things that can happen in combat. >><BR>
><BR>
>Have you consulted a book called _Where Death Delights_?<BR>
<BR>
I'll have to look that one up.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:31:28 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
<BR>
At 05:10 18.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> > From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
> > Thanks...Happy St Patricks day all...<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Mike<BR>
><BR>
>Guinness is evil.<BR>
><BR>
>I will rephrase that:  many, many pints of Guinness is evil.<BR>
<BR>
Why? (he asked, 3 being the highers number of pints of Guiness he ever had)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:46:07 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
Rob Eaglestone posted:<BR>
><BR>
> Wowww... activating a second jump drive while in jump... what<BR>
> fools would do that?  Sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Of<BR>
> course, if the referee likes the idea, then the referee can<BR>
> decide what to do in those cases.<BR>
><BR>
> I'd say everything gets destroyed, in a slow, painful way,<BR>
> and random bits actually re-emerge into realspace.  Like the<BR>
> sinking of a large ship, you know?  Everything starts failing,<BR>
> fires break out, Van de Graff effects, electrocutions, fuel<BR>
> tank breaches, hull breaching to jumpspace, everything slowly<BR>
> getting swallowed up into jumpspace... all at once.  Imagine<BR>
> the confusion and destruction.  Cooool.<BR>
<BR>
It's so nice to run a campaign where my players have common<BR>
sense.<BR>
<BR>
> ...and a lucky Traveller who found his EVA in time might live<BR>
> to tell about it.  Maybe.  What skill would that be?  JOT?<BR>
><BR>
> Rob<BR>
<BR>
More like "Sucking Up To The GM" skill.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, IMO, this is an "guaranteed" death (at worst) or<BR>
permanent insanity (at best) scenario.<BR>
<BR>
No EVA gear in Traveller can maintain a jump field and the<BR>
effects of being directly exposed to Jumpspace have been<BR>
documented back to CT. In fact, the survival of one person<BR>
after direct exposure to Jumpspace was big news and made<BR>
the TAS news service across the Imperium. It's that rare.<BR>
<BR>
Starting multiple jumpdrives which were synchronized *has*<BR>
been done before per an adventure nugget in one of the TAS<BR>
Journal issues but only a 1 in 6 chance worked. And then the<BR>
drives melted down. The 5 in 6 chances resulted in either<BR>
an emergency shutdown or a mission for the local Search And<BR>
Rescue teams.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:09:02 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: "Danger Close" from Ortillery (was Re: Marines are Tough)<BR>
<BR>
At 03:46 AM 3/18/00, you wrote:<BR>
>At 01:36 PM 3/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >OB Trav:  What's "Danger Close" from Ortillery??<BR>
><BR>
>In the same hemisphere.<BR>
>--<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
         <Chortle><BR>
<BR>
         Its a trick question, sort of.<BR>
<BR>
         It depends on wether or not the launch-platform's crew is any <BR>
good, it depends what level of computing resources they have at their <BR>
disposal for plotting the shot, it depends on wether it is a ballistic or <BR>
guided munition, and it depends on what the impact yield is.<BR>
<BR>
         In my TNEC milieu, the UN-CMC use "crowbars"...  tungsten/nickel <BR>
poles that are a few inches thick and about four feet long on impact.  I <BR>
think I figured the yield from LEO on a size 8 world at around 10 tons of <BR>
TNT, but it was a while ago.  Unguided, but with TL10 computers doing the <BR>
math and using an active launcher to get it going, I figured the accuracy <BR>
was around +/- 30m ;  IE:  you can snipe skyscrapers with them in CBZs.<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Cyberpunk:  	http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020<BR>
	Traveller:		http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller<BR>
	AD&D:		http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:11:17 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
At 10:30 AM 3/20/99, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
         [snip]<BR>
<BR>
>fires break out, Van de Graff effects, electrocutions, fuel<BR>
>tank breaches, hull breaching to jumpspace, everything slowly<BR>
>getting swallowed up into jumpspace... all at once.  Imagine<BR>
>the confusion and destruction.  Cooool.<BR>
><BR>
>...and a lucky Traveller who found his EVA in time might live<BR>
>to tell about it.  Maybe.  What skill would that be?  JOT?<BR>
><BR>
>Rob<BR>
<BR>
         DFL (Dumb F***ing Luck)<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:29:18<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
At 10:30 AM 3/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>	As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of<BR>
>one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.<BR>
<BR>
Like hitting the "engine start" button?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:21:44<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Astronomical questions...<BR>
<BR>
A few inquiries based on my work on Heya for the Landgrab.<BR>
<BR>
1. Heya is listed as having a K6iii primary. I don't quite understand the<BR>
Age table on page FI 50. If I'm reading this right, the average age of the<BR>
star is 5.8 billion years.<BR>
<BR>
2. But anyway, I'm probably shrinking the star to a K6v, with a M2v<BR>
companion.  The companion has an orbit lasting 18.926 years with a minimum<BR>
separation of 2.4 AU and a maximum separation of 9.6 AU. My question is how<BR>
long would the star be within 3 AU of the primary?<BR>
<BR>
3. As generated with the K6v/M2v combination, Heya is tidally locked  at<BR>
.42 AU, with a period of 128 days. ISTR something about a "2/3" rotation<BR>
like Mercury has.. would giving Heya a "day" of 74.2 days be to much of a<BR>
handwave? And what would be the perceived lengths of day and night?<BR>
<BR>
Related question, would the constant close approaches by the companion be a<BR>
good justification for this rotation?<BR>
<BR>
What I'm trying to set up is a system where there is a regular, predictable<BR>
rise in average temperatures caused by the companion's close approaches.<BR>
I'm going to write in the ecological adaptations made by the various<BR>
critters.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:16:54 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Historical Re-enactments (was some shouting nonesense)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:26:52<BR>
>From: >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:30:14<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: TOP 4 REASONS WHY TRAVELLER WENT DOWN<BR>
><BR>
>At 01:40 AM 3/17/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Ob Trav: are there reinactors/living historians in the 3I?<BR>
><BR>
>I would imagine so. Imagine the joys of Interstellar War reinactors living<BR>
>in solomani space?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And then you Have Lucan, Dulinor, et al's startlingly realistic<BR>
re-enactments<BR>
of the Final War. <g,d,r><BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.<BR>
I came, I saw, I had a cow<BR>
   - Bart Caeser<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:31:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> That's it. John Hamilton has shown is his last few posts thaty he is a<BR>
> troll, just trying to piss us of for his own amuesment.<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect, Doug, let this thing die. You have done as much to<BR>
keep the nastiness going as John has. While I'll agree that John has been<BR>
mostly confrontational, I've got to point out that the "list" as a whole<BR>
hasn't been in the right either. Obviously you and John have a problem<BR>
communicating, but if you see him as immature, Doug, you can always ignore<BR>
him.<BR>
<BR>
Really.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone can ignore him, even those who read the list in the digest form. The<BR>
fact that those members of the list who have a problem with his spelling and<BR>
/ or attitude aren't ignoring him says more about the maturity of the list<BR>
as a whole than it says about him.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:28:22 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
At 04:29 AM 3/18/00, you wrote:<BR>
>At 10:30 AM 3/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >       As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of<BR>
> >one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.<BR>
><BR>
>Like hitting the "engine start" button?<BR>
>--<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
         No, more like signing the cheque.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:48:38 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Persky <ouroboros@mail.utexas.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 04:56:37 -0600 (CST)<BR>
> From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
> Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
><BR>
> You should try to find the book<BR>
> "Camelot 30K" written by<BR>
> Robert L. Forward.<BR>
> <BR>
> This book desribes first contact with an alien species living in the<BR>
> Oort Cloud. This is native life living at a temperature of -30,000 C<BR>
<BR>
    I take it -30,000C (not to be confused with 30K) is the proper serving<BR>
temperature for 307 Ale?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:58:29 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Massive Firepower<BR>
<BR>
I said:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    "OBTRAV: What are the effects on morale by the introduction by one =<BR>
side of a new, higher TL during a war?"<BR>
<BR>
 "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    "I should think that the initial introduction of poison gas in WW I<BR>
would be a good historical example.  Reportedly it tore such a gaping hole<BR>
in the French lines that the Germans thought it was a ruse to sucker them in<BR>
and thus didn't follow up properly.<BR>
    "Alternatively the initial introduction of effective tank tactics in<BR>
WWII could be viewed in the same light.<BR>
  "Do these historical example seem reasonable or have I just put my foot in<BR>
it and started a new flame war?"<BR>
<BR>
Hmm...I can't recall the results of the first German gas attacks, except<BR>
that ultimately gas didn't prove to be the breakthrough strategic weapon<BR>
that OHL had hoped it would be.<BR>
    There was a parallel occurence during the ACW. In 1864, during the seige<BR>
of Petersburg, a Union IX Corps regiment took it upon themselves to plant a<BR>
mine under the Confederate lines. (The regiment was mostly coal miners from<BR>
Schuylkill county in Pennsylvania.) They managed to do this, despite<BR>
conventional military wisdom that the tunnel was too long. Unfortunately,<BR>
when the mine went off, the Union troops made the mistake of taking cover<BR>
*inside* the crater, and were eventually butchered by the Rebs.<BR>
    *I* may be starting a flame war here, but isn't it conventional wisdom<BR>
that the German WWII tank tactics were dependent on air superiority and thus<BR>
only worked against countries that didn't have/effectively use their air<BR>
force (I know that the Stuka, so destructive against Poland in '39, was a<BR>
sitting duck for the RAF in '40.) But maybe this is an example of what<BR>
moving up even one level on the TL table can do.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:35:49 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: publicity stunt for J class<BR>
<BR>
>>a yacht apparently designed to slingshot<BR>
> >around black holes<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I can't speak for the rest of Famile Spofulam, but I hadnt thought of that<BR>
>one.<BR>
<BR>
>Where is the closest Black Hole to Imperial space, anyway ?<BR>
<BR>
>Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
Well, I can't speak for the closest, bu Cygnus X-1 is 2206 parsecs away from<BR>
Sol in the direction of Cygnus. Given the XYZ coordinates of 2263, 6826,<BR>
353, and that the Y coordinate is in the direction of the Galactic rotation,<BR>
Cygnus X-1 should lie in the general direction of Far Frontiers sector, 2206<BR>
parsecs from Sol. If I've made any obvious errors, I apologize!<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the Galactic Core is probably a Black hole, ca. 8000 ly from Sol.<BR>
<BR>
You could also use a Type J to blast around a neutron star, preferably<BR>
non-rotating (hitting the gas envelope of a pulsar is *not* advised at the<BR>
speeds we're look at). For this stunt, though, you should make sure you stay<BR>
near the center of mass of your ship, or tidal forces will pull you apart,<BR>
as readers of Larry Niven know. (NB that Niven's Beowulf Schaeffer had a<BR>
Known Space General Products hull, which could only be destroyed by a large<BR>
amount of antimatter. Tidal forces would probably rip apart any Traveller<BR>
starship. And if you use a *Traveller* General Products hull, the thrusters<BR>
on the Type J would probably rip through it like torpedoes the first time<BR>
you fire them up :)<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:53:52 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Online Sectors<BR>
<BR>
>> Also, ironically enough, there are some discrepancies between Core,<BR>
>> Glimmerdrift Reaches and Ley sectors and AoI.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson  replied:<BR>
<BR>
>No discrepancies. The four Judges' Guild sectors (Ley, Glimmerdrift<BR>
>Reaches, Crucis Margin, and Marantha Alkahest) were declared non-canon,<BR>
>and thrown out.<BR>
<BR>
>So if *any* data from the Judges Guild matches later stuff, it's pure<BR>
>co-incidence.<BR>
<BR>
The first thing I noticed was the allegiance codes (Sy was showing up in Ley<BR>
Sector.) From there, I was able to compare world counts from other sources.<BR>
Core sector was very odd, in that there were a number of canon worlds, but<BR>
not where you'd expect them.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't have world names for many of the Core worlds, so I simply imported<BR>
in the ones from the JG sector except where I had the AOI names.<BR>
<BR>
>Some othewr sectors also became non-canon around that time. But I'm not<BR>
>sure if they went as far as throwing out the star positions.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm...I found Crucis Margin somewhere, so I probably have the JG data. I<BR>
also have Reaver's Deep, though as near as I can tell, the data is<BR>
canonical.<BR>
<BR>
For those of you playing at home, here's a list of all the sectors I was<BR>
able to find:<BR>
<BR>
SectorName<BR>
Afawahisa<BR>
Aldebaran<BR>
Alpha Crucis<BR>
Amdukan<BR>
Antares*<BR>
Arzul<BR>
Astron**<BR>
Banners**<BR>
Canopus<BR>
Core*<BR>
Corridor*<BR>
Crucis Margin<BR>
Dagudashaag*<BR>
Daibei*<BR>
Dark Nebula*<BR>
Delphi*<BR>
Deneb*<BR>
Diaspora*<BR>
Ealiyasiyw*<BR>
Empty Quarter*<BR>
Esai'yo<BR>
Faoheiroi'iyhao**<BR>
Foreven<BR>
Fornast*<BR>
Ftaoiyekyu**<BR>
Fulani**<BR>
Gashikan<BR>
Gateway*<BR>
Glimmerdrift Reaches*<BR>
Gushemege*<BR>
Gvurrdon<BR>
Hkakhaeaw**<BR>
Hlakhoi*<BR>
Ilelish*<BR>
Iphigenaia**<BR>
Iwahfuah*<BR>
Khaeaw***<BR>
Langere**<BR>
Ley*<BR>
Lishun*<BR>
Magyar*<BR>
Malorn**<BR>
Massilia*<BR>
Mendan<BR>
Meshan**<BR>
Neworld<BR>
Old Expanses*<BR>
Reaver's Deep<BR>
Reft*<BR>
Riftspan Reaches*<BR>
Solomani Rim*<BR>
Spica*<BR>
Spinward Marches*<BR>
Staihaia'yo<BR>
Star's End<BR>
The Beyond<BR>
The Hinterworlds<BR>
Theta Borealis**<BR>
Tienspevnekr<BR>
Touchstone**<BR>
Trenchan<BR>
Trojan Reach*<BR>
Tuglikki<BR>
Uistilao***<BR>
Ustral Quadrant<BR>
Vanguard Reaches<BR>
Verge*<BR>
Vland*<BR>
Waroatahe***<BR>
Windhorn***<BR>
Zarushagar*<BR>
Zhdant**<BR>
<BR>
* Atlas of the Imperium. Spot checking so far has revealed it to be canon.<BR>
** Only partial world names given; for Meshan and Zhdant, because they were<BR>
not on file, for others because the UWPs indicate no population.<BR>
***Only partial data (a few worlds) on file.<BR>
<BR>
I also have Yikleradanzh (sp) sector, but the data is from TNE year 1200,<BR>
and for the moment I'm working on 1100-1120 data. (I've also "corrected"<BR>
Rebellion factions to read "Imperial.")<BR>
<BR>
If anyone has/knows of other sectors, or has better data, let me know!<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:29:17 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 09:01 18.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Volker Greimann has stated that he is going to do a world with an ancient<BR>
>site, but hasn't picked one yet.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yup, i will, but first i have to complete my written exams, then check <BR>
which world interests me most and then announce my choice. All in all itll <BR>
take about a week, i guess!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:08:06 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] The Amazing Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
<BR>
At 16:45 18.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>         This post, recently recovered from the DeadLands Mailing List,<BR>
<BR>
Whoa there, just a minnit pardner...<BR>
There is such a strange animal as a Deadlands ML?<BR>
Giddy up and pack my bags, i must see that one for myself.<BR>
So please, be kind and give me subscription info...<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:30:38 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:28:18 EST, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, if anyone has a copy of the appropriate Alien Module, I'd<BR>
> appreciate it if you could look and see if there are any Chirper (or<BR>
> Droyne!) worlds in the Solomani Rim.  Drop me a line here or in<BR>
> private if you think you can pin down the locations of any.<BR>
<BR>
Nope, but there are two Droyne worlds in Daibei and one Chirper world in<BR>
Diaspora.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I think, therefor I am... I think?<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:48:34 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, R.D. Elliott wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> 	As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of<BR>
> one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Yes, they switched it on.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:44:22 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:30 AM 3/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >       As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of<BR>
> >one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.<BR>
><BR>
> Like hitting the "engine start" button?<BR>
<BR>
    Actually, I think the mere consideration of purchase (or other<BR>
acquisition) qualifies.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2122<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2123<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Online Sectors<BR>
Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
Vs: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Good Ideas!  T5 by Dom Mooney + another suggestion<BR>
Vs: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
How IS FFS3 coming along?<BR>
Re: T4 Ship Combat System<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Vs: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
RE: [OT] The Amazing Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Vs: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:57:14 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry Eris, you're not a heretic after all.  Thanks <BR>
to Mr. Farrell's modest little post, it just hit me <BR>
with full force:<BR>
<BR>
Traveller Heresy is Canonical.<BR>
<BR>
Think about it...<BR>
<BR>
Double Adventure 1: <BR>
   Shadows: undocumented, lizardlike interstellar race<BR>
   Annic Nova: solar-powered jump drive<BR>
<BR>
Kinunir:<BR>
   Intelligent computer fully automates Imperial Cruiser.<BR>
<BR>
Leviathan:<BR>
   Message torpedoes with jump capability.<BR>
<BR>
Expedition to Zhodane:<BR>
   Pop turrets exist, but only on a non-military <BR>
      planetoid ship.  Introduction of the very<BR>
      snug docking tube also used on the Broadsword<BR>
      to cut back on hangar space requirements.<BR>
 <BR>
   (Not strictly heresy, but definitely an implicit CT<BR>
    rules addition.  Notice that differences are no<BR>
    longer as drastic as in the first adventures.  So we <BR>
    see the OTU start to come into focus more.)<BR>
<BR>
Signal GK:<BR>
   Machine sentience.<BR>
<BR>
...and after that, canon seems set in concrete, at least<BR>
until TNE, when we get jumpboats and virus.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:31:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry Eris, you're not a heretic after all.  Thanks<BR>
> to Mr. Farrell's modest little post, it just hit me<BR>
> with full force:<BR>
><BR>
> Traveller Heresy is Canonical.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, which is why I said, a few months back, that I was a heretic by way of<BR>
Classic Traveller fundamentalism. If you go back to the source, the<BR>
Traveller universe looks very different.<BR>
<BR>
These days I'm just a garden variety heretic.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:33:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Online Sectors<BR>
<BR>
From: VonRammen <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> * Atlas of the Imperium. Spot checking so far has revealed it to be<BR>
> canon.<BR>
<BR>
If you wouldn't mind helping me out, which set of online sectors were these?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:44:41 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
> The worlds where these activities occur are interdicted because<BR>
> the Droyne have convinced the Imperial authorities that they<BR>
> need solitude to achieve this purpose.  <BR>
> <BR>
Does this mean that all the Closers in YTU are Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:40:07 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne in the Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> What are the canon Droyne worlds in the Spinward Marches?<BR>
> <BR>
> Peez<BR>
<BR>
I only found two "Droyne" worlds (but I know there are<BR>
a couple more):<BR>
<BR>
Andor         0236 C695735-9    Ag              R  603 Dr F3 V<BR>
Candory       0336 C593634-8    Ni              R  920 Dr F6 V M3 D<BR>
<BR>
This one just might have some Droyne presence:<BR>
<BR>
Binges        1635 A800231-A    Lo Ni Va           720 Na F0 V<BR>
<BR>
And from Galactic, I find:<BR>
<BR>
Spirelle      1927 C766946-8  S D:1 Hi Tn          115 Re<BR>
Izhedriel     0412 B200310-A  Z D:4 Lo Ni Va       701 Zh<BR>
<BR>
...and these have Chirper colonies, I think:<BR>
<BR>
Errere        0103 B263664-B  Z C0 Ni Ri           910 Zh M1 V M4 D<BR>
Ucella        0532 D574654-7    C0 Ag Ni        A  410 Cs F2 V M6 D<BR>
Calit         1515 C334867-7    C1                 501 Im K9 V M5 D<BR>
Ivendo        2319 B324659-A  A C0 Ni              112 Im A9 V<BR>
Hexos         2828 B534420-8  N C3 Ni              123 Im K1 V M2 D<BR>
Henoz         2912 A245543-B    C0 Ag Ni           824 Im F3 D<BR>
Vanejen       3119 C686854-5    C4 Ri              520 Im K1 V M0 D<BR>
Dojodo        3223 C512311-7  S C0 Lo Ni Ic        710 Im M5 V<BR>
Thornnastor   2940 D534443-8  S C1 Ni              804 Im M1 III<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:11:03 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 2:58 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Definitely.  That's going straight into my Traveller universe:  <BR>
> <BR>
> Jesedipere again, sophs, standing in rain pouring like out of a<BR>
- ------bzzzzzz------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Excellent and inspiring.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:57:01 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Sunbeard the Pirate would like to do a world about 4 parsecs<BR>
off the XBoat route, as a school project for Piracy 101.<BR>
<BR>
I don't suppose your website could have a page enumerating<BR>
the kind of things you'd like to see for the world?<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 01:02 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it been taken? What<BR>
> >worlds are claimed so far?<BR>
> <BR>
> Heya/Regina    Doug Berry<BR>
> Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell<BR>
> Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.<BR>
> <BR>
> Volker Greimann has stated that he is going to do a world with an ancient<BR>
> site, but hasn't picked one yet.<BR>
> <BR>
> Somebody said that they wanted to do Capital/Core, but I've lost that message.<BR>
> <BR>
> If you want to do Glisten, fine with us.<BR>
> <BR>
> One thing I like about this is that the worlds chosen so far are off the<BR>
> beaten track. It's nice to see the backwaters get a bit of attention.<BR>
> <BR>
> Since I seem to have landed the position of Chief Scout for this, I'll set<BR>
> up a website for staking claims, then hosting the results.  Don't be afraid<BR>
> the meddle with the planets to get results you like.<BR>
> --<BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:32:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Fuelled by 100 kg of hypergolic fuel, this baby tests the<BR>
>>> pilot to the absolute limit.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I believe this is what the phrase "test to destruction" means.<BR>
>><BR>
>>It's nice to see Famile Spofulum keeping up their usual high<BR>
>>product quality.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>         As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of<BR>
> one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.<BR>
<BR>
Such as making the error of *buying* it in the first place?<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:58:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ian,<BR>
><BR>
> You should try to find the book <BR>
> "Camelot 30K" written by <BR>
> Robert L. Forward.<BR>
><BR>
> This book desribes first contact with an alien species living in the<BR>
> Oort Cloud. This is native life living at a temperature of -30,000 C<BR>
<BR>
No, they live at 30 Kelvin (30 K). *Small* k is kilo, *large* K is<BR>
Kelvins. A Kelvin is the same size as a Celsius/Cewntrigrade degree.<BR>
But you start measuring at absolute zero. <BR>
<BR>
Absolute zero is -273.15 degrees C. You can't *have* a temp of -30,000.!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:07:32 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Good Ideas!  T5 by Dom Mooney + another suggestion<BR>
<BR>
Good job.  I like.<BR>
<BR>
You know, it makes sense that it is POSSIBLE to come up with<BR>
a finished rules system, and just crank out Milieux based on it.<BR>
I didn't even think about that.<BR>
<BR>
Another good point raised was that T4 was complete, just <BR>
scatterbrained, errata-prone, and kind of unpolished.<BR>
<BR>
T5 Lite on the web is an excellent idea.  It works for GURPS.<BR>
<BR>
Another suggestion would be to have official ships + deckplans<BR>
on the website in PDF format as well.  That way Travellers<BR>
needn't worry about the publishing woes involved with Yet <BR>
Another Starships book... in fact, it may be a great way to<BR>
publish 'extra' starships, such as the Naval battleships which<BR>
use the combat rules from the rulebooks.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> A T5 ruleset based on the T4.1 playtest material with the complete<BR>
>    rules (ie a Traveller Book)<BR>
<BR>
> A Milieu 200 Book.<BR>
<BR>
> T5 lite on a website.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> A FFS2.5 corrected system (must be ready - or available for authors -<BR>
> at the time of release so that a modular, HG level of complexity<BR>
> starship system can be included) book.<BR>
<BR>
> An Equipment book (CSC and EA and EV in one)<BR>
<BR>
> A book like Traders and Gunboats combined with an advanced ship game.<BR>
<BR>
> A book which combines PE and TCS<BR>
 <BR>
> Milieu 1100-1130 Book (ie go beyond GT with a sourcebook from pre-FFW<BR>
> to Collapse)<BR>
> Milieu 600 (or 200)<BR>
> Milieu 0<BR>
> Milieu 1200<BR>
> Milieu IW<BR>
> Milieu Contact<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:30:25 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 5:50 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
- ----------bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-----------------------------<BR>
<BR>
> Particle radiation is efecctively sub-atomic *bullets* in *huge*<BR>
> numbers. <BR>
<BR>
- ----------bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-----------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Great analogy, I think can really use something like that to explain things to my players. (Popularizing science thru sci-fi is one of my excuses for GM:ing hard-sf games...)<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:15:57 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>     ...your own opinion of what is the best system<BR>
> was the ONLY part of the whole discussion that is important.<BR>
<BR>
Hi Jesse,<BR>
<BR>
I started at CT, which was a good first try.  Then<BR>
I moved to T4, which was better but put together<BR>
poorly.  Then we tried GURPS, which doesn't meet my <BR>
prejudices about what Traveller should be like, and<BR>
now we're getting into MegaTraveller because the<BR>
character generation system ROCKS.<BR>
<BR>
SO: I like MT's chargen.  I think T4's ship combat<BR>
(or one of the variants out there) has potential.<BR>
I think Fire, Fusion, and Steel and its children<BR>
(QSDS for example) are the right way to go.<BR>
<BR>
But all in all, if T4 felt like it was put together<BR>
better I'd stay with it.<BR>
<BR>
Now, detractions:<BR>
<BR>
MT's ship construction system is out of hand.<BR>
GURPS ship construction system seems a bit<BR>
arbitrary?  (I have little experience there).<BR>
<BR>
MT doesn't seem to mesh personal combat with<BR>
ship combat (perhaps it should).<BR>
<BR>
T4 has odd ship combat rules.  I think.  Perhaps<BR>
it needs to be more task oriented?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's it.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:30:54 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: How IS FFS3 coming along?<BR>
<BR>
Recent posts have brought up a dormant question.<BR>
<BR>
How IS the next and final Fire, Fusion, and Steel <BR>
progressing?  At least one of the "Closed Society<BR>
for Research into Traveller Science" keeps an ear<BR>
to this newsgroup... any report?  Hey!!  Anybody<BR>
there?!<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:35:33 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: T4 Ship Combat System<BR>
<BR>
I dislike being a "me too" kind of poster, but... I'm <BR>
looking for this too.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
Les_Howie@keane.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Black ICE wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> >competing T4 ship combat rulesets (Mayday 4.1, RPSCS, Bruce Macintosh's<BR>
> >MCS [my personal choice], maybe some others about which I have no<BR>
> >information).<BR>
> <BR>
> Anyone know where can I get a copy of MCS?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:48:12 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Mar 00, at 5:15, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
<BR>
I see that being on the TML has a rejuvenating effect - I'm a boy now, <BR>
and only yersterday I was a man.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:48:12 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Mar 00, at 8:09, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 03:05 PM 3/18/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >On 17 Mar 00, at 8:55, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> 2. Your grammar and spelling are so bad as to render your posts<BR>
> >> unreadable gibberish. We use English here, with American style usage as<BR>
> >> the default. Failure to follow that standard for communication results<BR>
> >> in you being seen as either an idiot or an asshole. Your choice.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >You mean that all this time you Yanks have been only pretending to take<BR>
> >us ex-Brits (and the Poms) seriously you've been calling us idiots behind<BR>
> >our backs? Typical.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, yes.<BR>
> <BR>
> After all, we do own the world.  Don't like American English? Well, see<BR>
> how you like the USS Nimitz steaming into y'alls' waters! PAX AMERICANA!<BR>
> Coca-Cola and McDonalds in Tibet! A STARBUCKS ON EVERY CORNER!! -- <BR>
                                      ^^^^^^^^^<BR>
We've already got one of those, thankyouverymuch. The coffee (I think <BR>
that's what it's supposed to be) is horrid. Their espressos, in <BR>
particular, are thin and watery. If that's what you lot over the water <BR>
think coffee is you need help.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:46:23 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
Ah!  Good point... AM only has two stars in the Five<BR>
Sisters subsector... and we already know about Andor<BR>
and Candory...<BR>
<BR>
JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 3/18/00 10:44:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Qstor@aol.com<BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I didn't see any on the map on the end cover of the Droyne AM....<BR>
> <BR>
> Exactly the source I was hoping someone had handy.  I didn't recall<BR>
> any in the sector, but I don't have the book in my own possession, so<BR>
> I figured I'd better double-check.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks for the quick response!<BR>
> <BR>
> ----------<BR>
> Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
> writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
> "For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
> set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:04:12 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: <houstonshocky@webtv.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 2:24 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  <BR>
> Excerpt from book: p50<BR>
> <BR>
> "The third part in the camp contained the buried nuclear reactor that<BR>
> supplied the power needed to run the base and make the liquid oxygen and<BR>
> hydrogen rocket fuel they were going to need to take off again.<BR>
> Fortunately, since the temperature on the surface of ICE never varied by<BR>
> more than a few degrees around 30K, there was no problem keeping the<BR>
> fuels in a liquid state. Since oxygen solidified at 55K, and hydrogen<BR>
> boiled at 20K, a small refrigerator unit that took heat from the<BR>
> hydrogen storage tank and put it into the oxygen storage tank sufficed<BR>
> to keep both fuels liquid."<BR>
> <BR>
> -Shocky<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Doesn't K stand for Kelvin, k for kilo? Meaning the temp was -243 C, not -30 000 C.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:45:07 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] The Amazing Po Fu Lam Clockwork Carbine<BR>
<BR>
> 	This post, recently recovered from the DeadLands Mailing List,<BR>
> shines some interesting light on the origins of Famille Spofulam...<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
> 	I set out to prove that FF&S2 was vastly superior to those rules.<BR>
> Hence the following.  Stats are in Deadlandsese, but are easily<BR>
> decipherable.  Some of the rules & tables are of course part of<BR>
> the joke...<BR>
> In and of itself, it's an interesting example of TL-4/5 SMG:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> >The Strange New Shooting Iron:<BR>
<BR>
<</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=14><BIG><BIG><BIG>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's a DAMN good thing that I saw the mail originated from Roderick,<BR>
otherwise I'd have sprayed Diet Pepsi all over my keyboard, monitor, and<BR>
"Alien Races 3" printouts and references :)<BR>
<BR>
No words can adequately describe this piece, aside from:<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:03:54 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:02 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Since I seem to have landed the position of Chief Scout for this, I'll set<BR>
> up a website for staking claims, then hosting the results.  Don't be afraid<BR>
> the meddle with the planets to get results you like.<BR>
<BR>
Scout Master,     ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I'm thinking seriously about Garda-Vilis/Tanoose/Vilis or Collace. Don't<BR>
write it in stone yet, though.  I'm away from most of my materials and<BR>
using GT:BTC as a starting point.<BR>
<BR>
One thing that might help is to know what systems are already heavily<BR>
documented in Traveller products.  Such as Bowman and Tarsus in<BR>
District 268, each with a box full of canon, etc.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:07:11 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Vs: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
>Doesn't K stand for Kelvin, k for kilo?<BR>
>Meaning the temp was -243 C, not<BR>
>-30000 C. <BR>
<BR>
>-J2K<BR>
<BR>
Yes, its degrees Kelvin. Thats what happens when you try to post after<BR>
drinking a 12-pack and not sleeping. ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -Shocky<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:17:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> k = kilo<BR>
> C = Celsius<BR>
> K = Calvin<BR>
<BR>
K = Kelvin (after Lord Kelvin, who did a lot of early work in<BR>
    Thermodynamics)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:48:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.<BR>
><BR>
> Maximum speed of 1050 km per hour, accelerating to that speed with 87<BR>
> seconds of thrust. A total thrust-time of 172 seconds is provided. Fuelled<BR>
> by 100 kg of hypergolic fuel, this baby tests the pilot to the absolute<BR>
> limit.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> 1.7 kN thrust Hypergolic Liquid Rocket ; 0.013t, KCr 23. Consumes 2.074 m3<BR>
> fuel per hour<BR>
><BR>
> 100 kg of hypergolic fuel (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
> Favorite Gloop") will therefore last 172 seconds, and cost Cr 40.<BR>
<BR>
Please note that "hypergolic" means that the two propellants ignite<BR>
("explode" might be a better term) *on contact* with each other. This<BR>
calls for *extreme* precautions when fueling the bike, and when<BR>
servicing it.<BR>
<BR>
It also means that in the event of a crash that ruptures fuel tanks or<BR>
fuel lines, the pilot survivability closely approximates zero.<BR>
<BR>
Furthermore, both propellants are highly toxic, possible mutagens, and<BR>
one (N2O4) highly corrosive, both as a liquid and as fumes. <BR>
<BR>
How toxic? N2O4 is listed in many references as a "war gas" (ie<BR>
something intended for use in gas warfare!). Hydrazine is merely<BR>
"extreme precautions". <BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiousity, do the rules used to design this monster have<BR>
figure for hydrogen peroxide, used as a monopropellant?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:01:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>>On Behalf Of >>houstonshocky@webtv.net <BR>
>>>You should try to find the book<BR>
>>>"Camelot 30K" written by<BR>
>>>Robert L. Forward. <BR>
><BR>
>>>This book describes first contact with an<BR>
>>>alien species living in the Oort Cloud.<BR>
>>>This is native life living at a temperature<BR>
>>>of -30,000 C <BR>
><BR>
>>Huh ? <BR>
><BR>
>>Absolute zero is only -273 C. <BR>
><BR>
>>Even in the Oort cloud it's not going to<BR>
>>go below that naturally, and it's even<BR>
>>theorized that it's impossible to reach it<BR>
>>short of the heat death of the universe.<BR>
><BR>
>>And Bob Forward would know that. <BR>
><BR>
>>What would a temperature below<BR>
>>absolute zero mean anyway ? <BR>
><BR>
>>Frankie <BR>
>  <BR>
> Excerpt from book: p50<BR>
><BR>
> "The third part in the camp contained the buried nuclear reactor that<BR>
> supplied the power needed to run the base and make the liquid oxygen and<BR>
> hydrogen rocket fuel they were going to need to take off again.<BR>
> Fortunately, since the temperature on the surface of ICE never varied by<BR>
> more than a few degrees around 30K, there was no problem keeping the<BR>
> fuels in a liquid state. Since oxygen solidified at 55K, and hydrogen<BR>
> boiled at 20K, a small refrigerator unit that took heat from the<BR>
> hydrogen storage tank and put it into the oxygen storage tank sufficed<BR>
> to keep both fuels liquid."<BR>
<BR>
There's no *negative* sign on any of those measurements.<BR>
<BR>
"K" is Kelvins, not "kilo". A kelvin is a unit of temperature the same<BR>
size as a Celsius or Centigrade degree, but the zero point is absolute<BR>
zero (-273.15 degrees C). There are no negative temperatures when you<BR>
measure in kelvins.<BR>
<BR>
So 30 K is "30 Kelvin", not "30 degrees Kelvin". And it certainly isn't<BR>
"30 k" which isn't even a valid measurement, because there's no *unit*.<BR>
I.E. it'd have to be "thirty thousand <something>" but there's no<BR>
"something" present.<BR>
<BR>
Here's a nice little temp scale for you with higher temps at the top,<BR>
lower ones at the bottom.<BR>
<BR>
54 K oxygen melts/solidifies<BR>
53 K fluorine melts/solidifies<BR>
30 K ambient temperature<BR>
27 K neon boils/liquefies<BR>
24 K neon melts/solidifies<BR>
20 K hydrogen boils/liquefies<BR>
14 K hydrogen melts/solidifies<BR>
 4 K Helium boils/liquefies<BR>
 0 K lowest possible temp (helium still liquid except under pressure!)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2123<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2124<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Massive Firepower<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
RE: Droyne in the Spinward Marches (and elsewhere)<BR>
Re: Online sectors<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:30:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Massive Firepower<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hmm...I can't recall the results of the first German gas attacks, except<BR>
> that ultimately gas didn't prove to be the breakthrough strategic weapon<BR>
> that OHL had hoped it would be.<BR>
<BR>
As I recall, most authorities describe it like this:<BR>
<BR>
When first used, the *Germans* didn't really expect it to work, so they<BR>
weren't prepared (with extra troops, etc) to take advantage of the gap<BR>
in the lines. <BR>
<BR>
By the time they were confident it'd work, the Allies had rudimentary<BR>
gas masks in use.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that this will be typical of most new gear. But there *will*<BR>
be exceptions. The Atomic Bomb, for example.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:10:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I started at CT, which was a good first try.  Then<BR>
> I moved to T4, which was better but put together<BR>
> poorly.  Then we tried GURPS, which doesn't meet my<BR>
> prejudices about what Traveller should be like, and<BR>
> now we're getting into MegaTraveller because the<BR>
> character generation system ROCKS.<BR>
<BR>
Out of curiosity where are the major differences between Classic Traveller's<BR>
Chargen[1] and MegaTraveller's chargen? I've never seen any major<BR>
differences myself.<BR>
<BR>
[1] That is to say: The Basic Set plus books 4, 5, 6 and 7, as well as the<BR>
extra careers from the supplements.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:14:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
On 03/20/99 at 12:57 PM,  Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry Eris, you're not a heretic after all.  Thanks <BR>
>to Mr. Farrell's modest little post, it just hit me <BR>
>with full force:<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller Heresy is Canonical.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, but Rob, acknowledging this *is* my heresy. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    if all of you join me, I'll have to rethink my position. <g><BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:16:25 -0500<BR>
From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Mr. Goffin, you are the man. I was looking for an exciting way to open up my<BR>
new campaign and a trip to a Vargr wrestling match such as you describe<BR>
would be just the ticket. Full credit to the guy who came up with it<BR>
originally, but this bit really captured my imagination. Kudos.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
><BR>
> Definitely.  That's going straight into my Traveller universe:<BR>
><BR>
> Jesedipere again, sophs, standing in rain pouring like out of a<BR>
> hose, and nothing to do but wait for red tape to be cut for our<BR>
> cargo to cross the extrality line, smoking a bad-smelling local<BR>
> plant and talking: Startown, I guess, engage a companion, any<BR>
> bed's better'n a stateroom?, and, tanjit not Jesedipere Startown<BR>
> too damned depressing with all the Vargr refugees maybe I'll<BR>
> just become a damned tourist, and then Rrafgraghz comes trotting<BR>
> up just like a big dog with that goofy Vargr grin, and holds up<BR>
> his hand, showing us a lot of shiny paper.  Tickets, Vargr<BR>
> Wrestling, in the public arena downtown, scrounged em from a<BR>
> Navy guy cheap: who's in?<BR>
><BR>
> So off we go in a gravcab, all six of us and a ticket to spare,<BR>
> get to the arena, not a human or a native -- what are they<BR>
> called? Llolliwollies or I don't remember, cthulhu, I've been<BR>
> hitting a flask of brandeiswein Rraf' had picked up on Aramis<BR>
> and we're all feeling pretty jolly anyway -- anyway, it's an all<BR>
> Vargr scene at the arena, we five humans are the only non-Vargr<BR>
> and Rraf' is joking that we're toasted enough to pass anyway,<BR>
> and I recognize all sorts of things -- Kforuzeng patches and a<BR>
> 44th Squadron flag on somebody's tail and I'm wondering what<BR>
> we're getting into and next thing we're into it.<BR>
><BR>
> You know how the Vargr are sensitive to smell, well now I get it<BR>
> -- get it? -- 25,000 Vargr in the arena, soaked from the rain<BR>
> while waiting in line, angry and happy and excited, barking and<BR>
> howling, punching and shoving, but nobody gets hurt and they<BR>
> mostly ignore us humans as we find our seats, right in the<BR>
> middle of the swirling mass of fur and teeth, but if they'll sit<BR>
> down, a pretty good view of the ring.<BR>
><BR>
> Lights down, lights up, lights down and nothing changes except<BR>
> the audience gets louder; lights up again and someone has put a<BR>
> big Vargr-style mug of muddy local beer in my hand and there's a<BR>
> get it human get it referee get it? referee! in the middle of<BR>
> the ring, which is huge, maybe three times the size of a human<BR>
> martial arts ring.  Something very loud in Gvegh fills the hall<BR>
> -- great acoustics and a powerful system -- then something in<BR>
> another Vargr language that I don't recognize and then Gvegh<BR>
> again and eventually the crowd stops yelling at the referee and<BR>
> cheering.<BR>
><BR>
> There's a big board above the ring -- holodisplay, I assume --<BR>
> showing lots of information but it's all in Gvegh, even the<BR>
> numbers, so I can just guess what it is, but Rraf' has a big<BR>
> laser pointer with the arena logo and he's pointing it at the<BR>
> board, and the smoke -- what the hell I'm lighting up too where<BR>
> is that local grow? -- shows lots of laser lines hitting the<BR>
> display, so I assume that bets are being placed.<BR>
><BR>
> Finally, after a long time and I don't remember drinking all of<BR>
> that beer, but yes, thanks, I'll have another and what happened<BR>
> to that brandeiswein? anyway the contestants start appearing,<BR>
> smallest, weakest, and newest first, with outlandish haircuts<BR>
> and colors, but generally no clothes, fists taped and elaborate<BR>
> guards on the nail-claws, but mouths open and if they lose<BR>
> teeth, they can just replace them I suppose.  Lots of<BR>
> contestants, did I tell you, about fifty of them, everyone<BR>
> announced for a long time in Gvegh and two other languages and<BR>
> met with cheers jeers and sometimes beer mugs from the audience.<BR>
><BR>
> After being announced, each one takes a preset position, based<BR>
> I'm thinking on charisma.  Certainly the bigbads are in the<BR>
> middle and the small weak new are around the edges, with the<BR>
> middle class in the middle.  The human referee walks around<BR>
> checking everyone's position and as the cheers for the last and<BR>
> obviously most able contender fade -- Mr. Big Bad, I call him,<BR>
> and he is -- referee walks out of the ring and makes an<BR>
> announcement in Galanglic that is totally drowned out by the<BR>
> simultaneous translation into Gvegh, and then followed by the<BR>
> other languages, themselves drowned out by the cheers and roars<BR>
> of the 25,000 now even drunker and more excited Vargr, and even<BR>
> Rraf' is standing on his chair and waving his arms and howling.<BR>
><BR>
> Then the referee counts and I can understand the Gvegh: "on one:<BR>
> five, four, three, two, one" and the wrestlers actually wait for<BR>
> it before they all move at once.  It's just a furry blur down<BR>
> there, and I have to stand up, too, although now I'm potted from<BR>
> the local brew and am weaving a bit on my feet, I still have to<BR>
> stand on my chair to see, because everyone else is, and the<BR>
> bigger contestants are throwing the smaller bodily out of the<BR>
> ring, into the pads around, but one gets tossed all the way into<BR>
> the stands, where an immediate scuffle breaks out and lasts<BR>
> until he gets back onto the pads around the ring again.  On the<BR>
> pads, the early losers sulk in loser postures and avoid being<BR>
> landed on by the next ones to be thrown out.<BR>
><BR>
> Some push, some throw, some twist and do judo moves, but many<BR>
> get knocked out of the ring and fall to the pads below.  The<BR>
> fall may be only one meter if they got shoved through the ropes,<BR>
> but I saw a few get thrown right over the top rope, doubling the<BR>
> fall -- but no serious injuries.<BR>
><BR>
> After about ten minutes, there are only about ten Vargr left in<BR>
> the ring, three locked together in a crazy circular scramble,<BR>
> with another thumping each them from behind with an open hand,<BR>
> and the others one on one trying to get each other out.  Rraf'<BR>
> is jumping up and down and screaming so I guess his money is on<BR>
> a real contender, and the Skip is laughing so hard that he's<BR>
> almost crying, and poor Prithapon, the new engineer's mate,<BR>
> obviously doesn't know what to make of her officers, but is<BR>
> smiling gamely and trying to avoid getting hit by her too<BR>
> exuberant neigbors.  Beer and other liquids have spilled all<BR>
> over us and everyone else and at least I can drop my clothes in<BR>
> the laundry but these poor Vargr have to wash their fur until it<BR>
> smells better -- and poor is right -- most of these look to be<BR>
> refugees from Gvurrdon subsector, some are maybe deserters, and<BR>
> I can see a few who look like locals in dress at least.<BR>
><BR>
> Anyway, the action:  The cluster of three breaks up and they all<BR>
> grab the one who'd been pestering them from behind and together<BR>
> swing him once, twice, three times and he's out of the ring,<BR>
> over the ropes, past the pads, and into the stands, where he<BR>
> doesn't move and someone pours beer over him until he gets up<BR>
> and slinks off.  Meanwhile, some of the one on ones have<BR>
> concluded and the remaining five or six all lie down and try to<BR>
> push each other and stay in the center.  They're panting,<BR>
> nipping with their teeth, thumping with open palms, scrambling<BR>
> with their footclaws, tails wagging or lying flat, ears back,<BR>
> and the whole group is edging toward one edge and suddenly the<BR>
> one who's about to be pushed off -- Red Fur, I call him -- lets<BR>
> go and jumps up and over the group, and one who was next to him<BR>
> slips under the rope and hits the mat - splat -  and he's out<BR>
> and they all go after the one who jumped, but the one who was<BR>
> suckered is jumping up and down and screaming and trying to<BR>
> climb back up but some of the losers on the pads grab him and<BR>
> hold him down.<BR>
><BR>
> The others go into a standing and falling melee for a while, and<BR>
> end up on the ropes, just crushing one Vargr with blue fur<BR>
> against the ropes until he stops struggling, and then the big<BR>
> bad who had started in the center grabs him and throws him out<BR>
> and down -- wham! -- to the pad below, and there is a great<BR>
> cheer from the audience, me, too, cthulhu I'm just bellowing<BR>
> what was in that beer? -- but as Mr. Big Bad starts stomping<BR>
> around the ring accepting the cheers, two of the others rush him<BR>
> from behind and try to lift him to their shoulders.  He's too<BR>
> smart for that, just goes slack and they drop him, but he takes<BR>
> one down with him, holding his head and -- wham! -- they hit the<BR>
> ring hard and the audience goes even more crazy and just then<BR>
> the last one -- Red Fur -- pushes the one who was still standing<BR>
> right to the ropes and through and then there's only three, Mr.<BR>
> Big Bad, Red Fur and Number Three.<BR>
><BR>
> Rraf' is hoarse from cheering, and I wonder if he bet on Mr. Big<BR>
> Bad or against, and I'm accepting another beer from the autovend<BR>
> that floats by but not paying attention because the scene in the<BR>
> ring has me.  The three have each other in headlocks and they're<BR>
> trying to get to the edge of the ring and not the be one who<BR>
> gets pushed off. All of the losers on the pads are jumping up<BR>
> and down and howling and making rude signs that even I recognize<BR>
> and then Red Fur slips out of Mr. Big Bad's grip and pulls Mr.<BR>
> Big Bad down.  Number Three has a headlock on Mr. Big Bad and<BR>
> goes over with him, but doesn't let go.  Red Fur jumps up in the<BR>
> air and comes down hands first on Mr. Big Bad's midsection and<BR>
> Mr. Big Bad stops struggling for a second -- just long enough<BR>
> for Number Three to swing him around, both still on the ground,<BR>
> and send him over the edge.  Mr. Big Bad hasn't let go, so<BR>
> Number Three has to grab the rope to keep from going with him,<BR>
> but Red Fur comes up from behind and slams into Number Three,<BR>
> sending both Number Three and Mr. Big Bad out of the ring and<BR>
> into the pad -- triggering an immediate all-out brawl in the<BR>
> audience, as the spectators closest to the ring rush it all at<BR>
> once.<BR>
><BR>
> It's less dangerous up by our seats, but we all get knocked down<BR>
> and eventually find our way out of there.  Rraf' had bet on Red<BR>
> Fur and so he took us to this Vargr bar he knows and wouldn't<BR>
> let us stop drinking but eventually he gave all of his winnings<BR>
> to an organization for displaced Vargr.<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:22:31 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
> There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Any chance of getting me a URL?<BR>
<BR>
> >     On a similar note, we see variations of basketball in the series<BR>
> > Battlestar Galactica, Combat Hockey (I think) in Rollerball<BR>
> After watching that incident a few weeks ago when one player  smacked<BR>
> another upside the head with his stick, I'd have to classify Hockey asd<BR>
> 'Combat Hockey' right now.<BR>
<BR>
Lol. Alright, while I know that football (American at least) and Hockey tend<BR>
to fit into "combat sports" right along with<BR>
boxing/wrestling/kick-boxing/and<BR>
martial arts- all of these have a mess of "safeguards" to keep people from<BR>
being injured.<BR>
    Thus, the definition that I was after when I said combat sports was like<BR>
rollerball where the sport is fairly lethal by nature and there are few<BR>
safe-<BR>
guards to protect the players :-)<BR>
<BR>
> This came up a while back on the list; some people came up with<BR>
> references to some books, notably one called 'Killerball' ('Killerbowl'<BR>
> perhaps?) which was football with a combat motif. (The playing field is<BR>
> a part of a city, and one player on each side is an 'Assasin'; he gets<BR>
> to hide out with a single shot rifle and one bullet and, well, even the<BR>
> odds once per game)<BR>
<BR>
    At first, this seemed so simple and crude that I said: "useless" but<BR>
then I got to thinking about it. You get to shoot one guy and another is<BR>
out there with a single bullet just for you.<BR>
    This appears to be a really cool version of Russian roulette with more<BR>
action and better chances of living.<BR>
<BR>
> The thread immediately degenerated into comparisons between American and<BR>
> Aussie football, rugby, and just who was tougher, and _that_ went on to<BR>
> the _next_ logical subject, _beer_, but that's to be expected around<BR>
> here ;-)<BR>
> Did someone say beer?<BR>
> Why, I don't mind if I do!<BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
<BR>
    Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for<BR>
very long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary potables"<BR>
for their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:25:49 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> I suppose it's just an outgrowth of the natural dominance games every<BR>
Vargr<BR>
> plays, so it could be an entirely Vargr invention.  On the other paw, they<BR>
> probably did borrow scripting and the soap opera-style plots from our own<BR>
> version (although I would love to defend the idea that there is no<BR>
> professional wrestling in future human cultures, I doubt that this will be<BR>
> the case).<BR>
<BR>
    That makes a lot of sense. Think we'd have the UWF later on with<BR>
multiple races playing the sport, or  do you think that sports would pretty<BR>
much stay segregated between the races?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:28:24 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> >How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
> Definitely.  That's going straight into my Traveller universe:<BR>
<snipped really cool/inspirational description><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
WOOHOO!!! That's what I was after Glenn- you pinged it<BR>
on the nose with that description and really gave us something<BR>
creative and useful IMO.<BR>
    So, what kinds of like ideas would you happen to have<BR>
hiding in that brain of yours for Aslan, Droyne, Hivers, K'Kree,<BR>
and other races?<BR>
    I really did like Jason's work on the K'Kree whack the g'naak<BR>
too BTW :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:30:49 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> >Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> >> How about Vargr professional wrestling?<BR>
> >    Just out of curiosity, would you think that the Vargr have<BR>
> >developed this sport on their own, or is it more likely that<BR>
> >they adapted it from us?<BR>
<BR>
> In my Traveller universe, most people believe that the Vargr<BR>
> developed it first, and the Terrans adopted it.<BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Lol. Yeah, leave it to an American here to think of it as beginning<BR>
on Earth. I mean didn't anyone else ever notice that almost every<BR>
country in the world has words in their languages that resemble<BR>
ours?<BR>
    On a like note, the only problems that I've had travelling to other<BR>
countries is that there are just waaay too many foreignors ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:33:55 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> Uuhhh, I don't think you can go over a 100% of anything.....The proof<BR>
could<BR>
> be as high as 200 making it 100% alcohol.<BR>
> Thom<BR>
<BR>
    We just had a rather long discussion on this on the T2k ML.<BR>
It was pointed out that pure alcohol (100%/200 proof) was not<BR>
possible on Earth as it acted somewhat like a sponge sucking<BR>
moisture out of the air and watering it down to something like<BR>
98%.<BR>
    I'd imagine that we might be able to get 200 proof in a 0<BR>
atmosphere environment, or maybe in jumpspace though :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:41:46 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
> > Wow Doug!<BR>
> > You illustrated that point very will, however...<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene'ZeAbe'Akella wrote:<BR>
> Yeah, Doug has posted some really awesome stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Whew! that was a sentence in itself, would you be insulted if I<BR>
referred to you as Ben from now on?<BR>
<BR>
    I really like Doug's posts when he's not arguing with another<BR>
member on the list. Then again, some of the points that he did<BR>
raise in the argument were just amazing.<BR>
<BR>
> > I am amazed that you really made everything so nice and tight<BR>
> > dealing with everything being produced in the 80's. I would have<BR>
> > thought the challenge to be much greater.<BR>
> I hadn't thought of that, although my first thought was that I doubt the<BR>
> magazine would survive millennia. ;)<BR>
<BR>
    You're thinking too human again. With Ancient technology, we put<BR>
our most valuable assets in a vault that protected them from age.<BR>
Those were an 8-track tape, a coke, a magazine, and a car.<BR>
    Now, when the site was found and the vault opened everything was<BR>
perfectly preserved, however our intrepid adventurers were quite<BR>
thirsty at the time, so the full coke was inventoried/reported as an<BR>
empty can and we know where the contents thereof ended up.<BR>
    Thus, we have a perfectly functioning magazine ;-) I just wonder<BR>
how good looking a centerfold would really appear 300,000 years<BR>
from now.<BR>
<BR>
> > Since the Ancients seemed to span a HUGE span of time, we<BR>
> > would have to account for the fact that much of the findings could<BR>
> > be from older or more recent findings as well.<BR>
> Very good point, something to think about for the scout campaign I am<BR>
> working on.<BR>
<BR>
    Okay, I'll bite, what are you working on with this campaign?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:43:42 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> > That's easy - as the OTU is not about Yanks in Space it is about the<BR>
> > British Empire in Space, and thus there are Pugilists, but not Pro<BR>
> > Wrestlers. QED.<BR>
<BR>
> No way. The OTU is all about the Roman Empire in space. So, as far as<BR>
sports<BR>
> go, it's time to fire up the ol' chariot and start starving the lions.<BR>
> "Oh Strephon, we who are about to die (in chargen) salute you!"<BR>
<BR>
Uhm... With advanced technology, that should be the ol' GravChariot<BR>
shouldn't it? Also, aren't Aslan more useful for these purposes than<BR>
lions? Presuming of course that they're trainable ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:51:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Well met Rob,<BR>
<BR>
> Hi Jesse,<BR>
> I started at CT, which was a good first try.  Then<BR>
> I moved to T4, which was better but put together<BR>
> poorly.  Then we tried GURPS, which doesn't meet my<BR>
> prejudices about what Traveller should be like, and<BR>
> now we're getting into MegaTraveller because the<BR>
> character generation system ROCKS.<BR>
<BR>
    I agree with you on MT's Chargen. I liked it quite a bit<BR>
myself, although I found it a bit difficult to add in any new<BR>
professions. That isn't a let-down though :-)<BR>
    Why did you think T4 was better than CT? What is it<BR>
about GURPs that doesn't meet with your expectations?<BR>
<BR>
> SO: I like MT's chargen.  I think T4's ship combat<BR>
> (or one of the variants out there) has potential.<BR>
> I think Fire, Fusion, and Steel and its children<BR>
> (QSDS for example) are the right way to go.<BR>
> But all in all, if T4 felt like it was put together<BR>
> better I'd stay with it.<BR>
<BR>
    How difficult would you say it is to use T4's ship<BR>
combat with MT? Is FF&S part of T4? I have really<BR>
heard a LOT about FF&S and intend to get it for<BR>
ideas even if I don't use it straight any way it goes :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Now, detractions:<BR>
> MT's ship construction system is out of hand.<BR>
> GURPS ship construction system seems a bit<BR>
> arbitrary?  (I have little experience there).<BR>
<BR>
    What specifically did you find "out of hand" in<BR>
MT's ship construction? I know quite a bit of those<BR>
problems myself since this is the one area that I really<BR>
dug into when I had my MT set, but I'd like to hear<BR>
other opinions.<BR>
<BR>
> MT doesn't seem to mesh personal combat with<BR>
> ship combat (perhaps it should).<BR>
<BR>
    That was my own viewpoint, although some of the<BR>
more recent posts on the subject are making me think<BR>
that I was really missing something on that end.<BR>
<BR>
> T4 has odd ship combat rules.  I think.  Perhaps<BR>
> it needs to be more task oriented?<BR>
<BR>
    Like what's "odd" about their rules compared to MT?<BR>
<BR>
> That's it.<BR>
> Rob<BR>
<BR>
Thank a lot Rob! :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:53:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Chris wrote:<BR>
> Out of curiosity where are the major differences between Classic<BR>
Traveller's<BR>
> Chargen[1] and MegaTraveller's chargen? I've never seen any major<BR>
> differences myself.<BR>
> [1] That is to say: The Basic Set plus books 4, 5, 6 and 7, as well as the<BR>
> extra careers from the supplements.<BR>
<BR>
Hey Chris,<BR>
<BR>
    First off, I must admit that I only had a couple of the CT books when I<BR>
bought MT and I bought MT in hopes that it would just be a compilation<BR>
of everything from CT.<BR>
    However, IIRC- it seemed that CT used the "basic" character<BR>
generation rules as opposed to the "Extended". It seemed like you<BR>
needed to pick up a lot of extras to fill out extended generation- like<BR>
High Guard, Scouts, Merchants, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:05:41 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne in the Spinward Marches (and elsewhere)<BR>
<BR>
According to my files, the following worlds are Droyne/Chirper:<BR>
<BR>
Sector WorldName Hex UWP<BR>
Foreven     Dumosif 0513 B5628X8-8<BR>
Foreven     Rayarkfost 3003 B4657X9-9<BR>
Dagudashaag     Anomaly 1633 C9E7366-C<BR>
Diaspora     Umorphutwyo 1816 D41066B-A<BR>
Gushemege     Imaniik 0517 B96A776-8<BR>
Gushemege     Iest 1227 C33169D-B<BR>
Gvurrdon     Tanga 2005 B9C56BB-9<BR>
Crucis     Heng-o 2713 A748683-E<BR>
Crucis     Shun 2811 B586548-B<BR>
Crucis     Ming 2812 D452205-A<BR>
Crucis     Tsi 2813 E756446-B<BR>
Old Expanses     Chapet 3025 A510410-E<BR>
Old Expanses     New Titan 3125 B100568-C<BR>
Reft Zamoran     2108 B674675-A<BR>
Spinward Marches     Andor 0236 C695735-9<BR>
Spinward Marches     Candory 0336 C593634-8<BR>
Trojan Reach     Ayldem 3013 A7407X4-D<BR>
Trojan Reach     Auitawry 3140 A5668XA-F<BR>
Zhdant     Yaskekue 0514 B6876X3-E<BR>
Zhdant     Kaythe 1217 A4855X5-E<BR>
Zhdant     Ayssthon 1334 A346856-E<BR>
Zhdant     Oythepru 2034 A66586B-C<BR>
Tienspevnekr     Irdyarut 1314 B46477C-A<BR>
Tienspevnekr     Siskayas 1822 C5877X7-5<BR>
<BR>
Can't speak to the canonicity of anything outside the Imperium, of course.<BR>
YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:01:12 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Online sectors<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:33:45 -0500<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Online Sectors<BR>
><BR>
>From: VonRammen <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> * Atlas of the Imperium. Spot checking so far has revealed it to be<BR>
>> canon.<BR>
><BR>
>If you wouldn't mind helping me out, which set of online sectors were<BR>
these?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Most of the sectors came from the CORE archive<BR>
http://members.nova.org/~sol/core/home.htm, revised with reference to the<BR>
Missouri Archive http://web.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/; I think I looked<BR>
in the General/Sectors folder (after spot-checking them against the DGP<BR>
folder, which was Digest Group Publications versions. I didn't see any major<BR>
differences.) I had to revise the CORE data because some of the data was<BR>
from the old Judge's Guild work which was disowned by GDW and does not agree<BR>
with Atlas of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Gashikan and Trenchans I found by doing a search for "Sectors." Some one--I<BR>
didn't bookmark the page--has a links page up for several sectors. CORE is<BR>
overall the better source (they have names for most worlds), but there are<BR>
other pages out there as well. I can't exactly remember where I found<BR>
Tienspavnekr (sp), Zhdant and Foreven; I'd have to check my History folder.<BR>
The one that got away was Far Frontiers; does anyone know if anything more<BR>
than Jungleblut subsector was ever done?<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:05:04 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
> > 1.7 kN thrust Hypergolic Liquid Rocket ; 0.013t, KCr 23. Consumes 2.074<BR>
m3<BR>
> > fuel per hour<BR>
> ><BR>
> > 100 kg of hypergolic fuel (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
> > Favorite Gloop") will therefore last 172 seconds, and cost Cr 40.<BR>
><BR>
> Please note that "hypergolic" means that the two propellants ignite<BR>
> ("explode" might be a better term) *on contact* with each other. This<BR>
> calls for *extreme* precautions when fueling the bike, and when<BR>
> servicing it.<BR>
<BR>
"All recordable instances of product failure can be traced back to some form<BR>
of operator error"<BR>
<BR>
And I can see why two propellants that explode on contact are known as<BR>
"Ditzie's Favorite Gloop".<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> It also means that in the event of a crash that ruptures fuel tanks or<BR>
> fuel lines, the pilot survivability closely approximates zero.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
See quote above.<BR>
<BR>
> Furthermore, both propellants are highly toxic, possible mutagens, and<BR>
> one (N2O4) highly corrosive, both as a liquid and as fumes.<BR>
><BR>
> How toxic? N2O4 is listed in many references as a "war gas" (ie<BR>
> something intended for use in gas warfare!). Hydrazine is merely<BR>
> "extreme precautions".<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
To quote from the brochure "Prospective owners are advised to check with<BR>
local<BR>
authorities regarding environmental issues and flight control requirements".<BR>
<BR>
On further review, this baby is probably illegal on the majority of Imperial<BR>
worlds (anything with a breathable atmosphere and law level above 2 is<BR>
probably a gimme for having it impounded on sight).<BR>
<BR>
> Just out of curiousity, do the rules used to design this monster have<BR>
> figure for hydrogen peroxide, used as a monopropellant?<BR>
<BR>
Lesse ... we may have to play with the fuels and burner. There is the<BR>
possibility that due to the lower mass of propellant that Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
and Liquid Oxygen may be the way to go.<BR>
<BR>
Nahhh. Not until there is some competition in the TL6 Jet Bike market. Lets<BR>
face it, LOx and LHyd are all over the place, but FS can make more money<BR>
selling refill packs of Ditzie's Favorite Gloop.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2124<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 18 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2125<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: Online Sectors<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Here's another try for T5.<BR>
Re: Astronomical questions...<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Here's another try for T5.<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Greece<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: MT vs CT (was: Best Rules System)<BR>
YKYPTMTW...<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:19:10 +1200<BR>
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz<BR>
Subject: re: Online Sectors<BR>
<BR>
VonRammen <von_rammen@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
If anyone has/knows of other sectors, or has better data, let me know!<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I'm not sure about better but my notes shoe TWO Arzul sectors - Meshan<BR>
(Arzul) and Ingukrax (Arzul). I Think what you've listed as Arzul is<BR>
Ingukrax.<BR>
<BR>
I've also got a copy of Provence sector (1200, with 1117 attached , I<BR>
think) and a patial listing for Far Frontiers sector if you want either.<BR>
<BR>
Would I be able to get a copy of your data for Crusis Margin, Gashikan,<BR>
Trenchan, and Windhorn? I don't seem to have a thing one these sectors.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, Jonathan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 05:38:23 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:29:24 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Shielding in deep space depends on how long you want it for.  At high tech,<BR>
> >> anything other than a skinsuit will probably protect against the low<BR>
> >> penetration beta which is the most common part of solar radiation; however,<BR>
> >> high penetration radiation will still give doses of a couple rads an hour.<BR>
> >> Going out in a skinsuit, unless protected by a magnetic field, would be<BR>
> >> fatal in minutes.<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><BR>
> >         Could you actually build such a magnetic field generator strong enough<BR>
> > to prevent such a painful death?<BR>
> >         It's not hard generate a magnetic field, I'm not sure of what strength<BR>
> > you would need, but given the power density of the 3I technology<BR>
> > (particularly in Gurps) I would not see generating such a magnetic field<BR>
> > being a problem. Unless it requires such a powerful magnetic field it<BR>
> > causes bad physiological effects.<BR>
> <BR>
> The roblem is that the field has to have *poles*. And at the poles,<BR>
> rather than deflecting the particles away, the field accelerates them<BR>
> *in*.<BR>
> <BR>
> That's why you get the aurora up near earth's poles.<BR>
> <BR>
	Ok, Wild speculation time. <BR>
	If you mount the field generator in a backpack or just off the surface,<BR>
the accelerated particles strike (or pass through) a piece of inanimate<BR>
material much more able to take the abuse of particle accelerator<BR>
attacks. Put a hole all the way through and you have a reaction<BR>
engine... <BR>
	For a skin suit, I might use several smaller field generators, using<BR>
the particles as source of power for the field generators. As the solar<BR>
wind intensity increases, your ability to work effectively reduces<BR>
because of the increasing magnetic fields cause odd effect on the<BR>
equipment you are handling. But for an unexpected flare (or particle<BR>
weapon attack) it should stop the worst effects. <BR>
<BR>
	None of this has answered my original question. Would a magnetic field<BR>
strong enough to protect against the worst effect of the solar flare<BR>
cause its own (more severe) problems?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:16:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
> <BR>
> Any chance of getting me a URL?<BR>
<BR>
Missouri archives, under General/GravBall:<BR>
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/GravBall/<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:26:49 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Here's another try for T5.<BR>
<BR>
Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> I'm just a drone in the caste system of my country,<BR>
> so if you don't like what I write, you may disagree.<BR>
> Here's an alternative to my original T5 line, which <BR>
> actually looked like the CT and T4 line.  So here's<BR>
> something different, more along the MT line.  If you<BR>
> just want source material, perhaps you could just<BR>
> get book 4; otherwise you can buy the boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
I think that the market will better support a single<BR>
HC book rather than a boxed set. Almost all the new<BR>
and/or popular games are one (sometimes 2 or 3 but<BR>
Trav should try for 1 hardcover book.)<BR>
<BR>
We might consider going to a slightly smaller size,<BR>
similar to what WWP did for Aberrant.<BR>
<BR>
> Book 1. Player's Manual.                       93 usable pages<BR>
>         Introduction to the milieu.             5 pp.<BR>
<BR>
I think we need more than 5 pages of intro, let's try<BR>
for 8<BR>
<BR>
>         Basic and Extended chargen for most    36 pp.<BR>
>            character classes.<BR>
>         Skills, life pursuits, tasks, etc       8 pp.<BR>
>         Basic combat (man, machine, starship). 22 pp.<BR>
Combat is a task - It is illogical to have all other<BR>
tasks take 8 p. & Combat take 22 pages, especially if<BR>
weapon stats are going to be in the equipment list.<BR>
<BR>
>         Travelling details (SOM, economics..)  15 pp.<BR>
> Book 2. Referee's Manual.                      93 usable pages.<BR>
>         Nobles.                                 5 pp.<BR>
Maybe the Nobles bit should be moved to the intro,<BR>
where the place of Nobles in the Imperium can be<BR>
explained & to Char Gen where PC Nobles can be discussed.<BR>
<BR>
>         Psionics.                               8 pp.<BR>
>         Animal encounters.                      5 pp.<BR>
<BR>
You might want to think about changing T5 so that animals<BR>
have stats & skills just like characters.  (Similar to D&D <BR>
3rd ed monsters having stats & skills). Keep the traditional<BR>
animal type and mass charts but use them to generate<BR>
stats & skills for the animal [I.E. a _typical_ 50 kg non sentient<BR>
pouncer carnivore has STR 3+1d6 DEX 2d6+2 END 2d6-1 INT 1 <BR>
EDU n/a SOC n/a PSI 0 Speed 2 Teeth with Pen 3 Dam 1<BR>
Claws with Pen 1 Dam 1 and is Speed 2. It has Brawling-2<BR>
Hunting-2 Survival-2 Perception-1 & Tactics-1 It has at <BR>
least one keen sense so it's Perception tasks are -1 Diff.]<BR>
<BR>
>         Starship construction.                 32 pp.<BR>
Aren't starships equipment? Why isn't this with the other <BR>
equipment?<BR>
<BR>
>         Basic World creation rules.            10 pp.<BR>
>         Milieu timeline.                        2 pp.<BR>
>         Selected TAS newsfeeds 10 years        15 pp.<BR>
>            into the milieu.<BR>
Have you explained what TAS is yet or will you do so here?<BR>
<BR>
> Book 3. AAB.                                   93 usable pages.<BR>
>         Equipment.                             24 pp.<BR>
>         Combat Equipment.                      24 pp.<BR>
>         Vehicle list/Ship broadsheets.         12 pp.<BR>
>         Library Data.                          24 pp.<BR>
<BR>
> Additional Books:<BR>
>  * Guide to a particular chunk of the Imperium.<BR>
>       A part of a sector map, followed by...<BR>
>          major worlds for the region+milieu.<BR>
Why not a whole sector or whole domain [or other<BR>
4 sector chunk]. A significant portion of this<BR>
area should be outside the Imperium and/or alien<BR>
to make it interesting. [Maybe Antares, Empty Quarter<BR>
Fornast, & Ley for example]<BR>
<BR>
We start with 20 pages of intro to the sector<BR>
including customs, companies, histories, nobles,<BR>
military units, important NPC's [20 pages]<BR>
<BR>
An extended UPP for every planet in the domain [8 pages].<BR>
<BR>
Then for one sector we get 32 pages of facing subsector <BR>
(Regency SB style) maps with library data 40-50 words<BR>
on each world in the subsector. [32 pages]<BR>
<BR>
Then for one subsector in that sector we get one page of <BR>
data on every world in the subsector including a planetary <BR>
map. [40 pages].<BR>
<BR>
Then for one world (& associated system) in that subsector<BR>
we get a complete write up with everything & an adventure <BR>
(similar to Tarsus perhaps). [24 pages]<BR>
<BR>
Library Data [16 pages]<BR>
<BR>
This is the real kicker - referee info on planetary <BR>
development showing how to go from the UPP [Domain] <BR>
to the UPP + 40 words [Sector] to the planetary map + <BR>
250 words [subsector] to the complete planetary stats <BR>
& adventure of 5,000 words & several maps & charts.<BR>
[36 pages]<BR>
<BR>
Index [4 pages]<BR>
<BR>
Retail $29.95US, 180 page HC<BR>
<BR>
A fold out 4 page map of the domain (similar to the Domain<BR>
of Deneb Map DGP put in MT Digest but with color)<BR>
I know these aren't cheep but good printing & <BR>
quality production is important.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:27:53 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Astronomical questions...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/18/00 12:23:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> A few inquiries based on my work on Heya for the Landgrab.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  1. Heya is listed as having a K6iii primary. I don't quite understand the<BR>
>  Age table on page FI 50. If I'm reading this right, the average age of the<BR>
>  star is 5.8 billion years.<BR>
<BR>
The approximate age of a red giant star is predictable, since the red<BR>
giant stage comes after a full lifespan on the main sequence (whose<BR>
length is itself predictable).  The "Age" column in the chart you refer<BR>
to is the approximate age of the red giant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  2. But anyway, I'm probably shrinking the star to a K6v, with a M2v<BR>
>  companion.  The companion has an orbit lasting 18.926 years with a minimum<BR>
>  separation of 2.4 AU and a maximum separation of 9.6 AU. My question is how<BR>
>  long would the star be within 3 AU of the primary?<BR>
<BR>
Urrr.  You could do this with Kepler's laws but I don't have the exact<BR>
formulae at my fingertips.  With e = 0.6 as you have it here, I suspect<BR>
the period of closest approach will be quite short, relatively speaking.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  3. As generated with the K6v/M2v combination, Heya is tidally locked  at<BR>
>  .42 AU, with a period of 128 days. ISTR something about a "2/3" rotation<BR>
>  like Mercury has.. would giving Heya a "day" of 74.2 days be to much of a<BR>
>  handwave? And what would be the perceived lengths of day and night?<BR>
<BR>
Sidebar, p. FI63.  If the planet's own orbital eccentricity is large enough<BR>
this kind of resonance is quite reasonable, although the planet's rotation<BR>
period would be 85.33 days and not 74.2 days.  To determine the<BR>
apparent day length use the formula at the bottom of page FI65.  I<BR>
can save you the trouble, though -- for a 3/2 resonance (three rotations<BR>
for two orbits) the apparent day length is always three times the<BR>
rotational period or twice the orbital period -- 256 days in this case.<BR>
Bear in mind that with the high eccentricity you'll get the odd effect<BR>
where the sun appears to stop in the sky, back up, stop again, then<BR>
proceed as before.  This happens whenever the planet passes perihelion.<BR>
<BR>
You could also have the planet's rotation be retrograde, if such a long<BR>
"day" bothers you.  In that case the apparent day length is -0.6 times<BR>
the rotation period, or about -51.2 days here.  The negative sign means<BR>
that the sun rises in the "west" and sets in the "east."  I don't remember<BR>
whether you'd get any erratic apparent motion on the part of the sun,<BR>
although I suspect it wouldn't be as noticeable in this case.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  Related question, would the constant close approaches by the companion be a<BR>
>  good justification for this rotation?<BR>
<BR>
Maybe.  The planet remains well within the stable-orbit radius of its<BR>
primary even with this moderate eccentricity, but I'm not enough of<BR>
an astronomer to be able to work out the long-term dynamics of the<BR>
situation.  Maybe the eccentricity can be related to the presence of<BR>
the companion star to begin with (although Mercury, in our own system,<BR>
exhibits a very similar pattern without any companion star around).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  What I'm trying to set up is a system where there is a regular, predictable<BR>
>  rise in average temperatures caused by the companion's close approaches.<BR>
>  I'm going to write in the ecological adaptations made by the various<BR>
>  critters.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if you'd get much variance on account of the companion.<BR>
It never approaches closer than 2 AU, and if it's an M2 V the expected<BR>
luminosity is only about 1/24 that of Sol to begin with.  I'd have to work<BR>
out the numbers, but I don't think you'd get more than a few degrees<BR>
of variation.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:42:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
> > > There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
> > Any chance of getting me a URL?<BR>
> Missouri archives, under General/GravBall:<BR>
> http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/GravBall/<BR>
> - Ken<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Ken<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:07:39 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Here's another try for T5.<BR>
<BR>
Hi Peter.<BR>
<BR>
> I think that the market will better support a single<BR>
> HC book rather than a boxed set. Almost all the new<BR>
> and/or popular games are one (sometimes 2 or 3 but<BR>
> Trav should try for 1 hardcover book.)<BR>
<BR>
I understand, and I think I agree.<BR>
<BR>
> Combat is a task - It is illogical to have all other<BR>
> tasks take 8 p. & Combat take 22 pages, especially if<BR>
> weapon stats are going to be in the equipment list.<BR>
<BR>
I only have Traveller rulebooks; however, it seems<BR>
invariable that combat in all its forms (personal,<BR>
vehicular, aggregate, starship, etc) take up space<BR>
because a round of combat consists of sets of <BR>
sequential tasks chosen from a tree of combat tasks.<BR>
Also, special rules abound for the hard-core (snapshots,<BR>
ducking, running while shooting, automatic fire, cover,<BR>
wounding, first aid, death...)<BR>
<BR>
> >         Animal encounters.                      5 pp.<BR>
> <BR>
> You might want to think about changing T5 so that animals<BR>
> have stats & skills just like characters.<BR>
<BR>
That's a good point, but I think it is usually unnecessary.<BR>
<BR>
Classic Traveller actually hinted at this somewhat.<BR>
Animals have hit points instead of END, speed instead<BR>
of DEX, and equivalent damage instead of STR (damage<BR>
as pistol-1 or claws-1 ... ).  I think a change like<BR>
you mentioned might be useful for special encounters,<BR>
but in that case they can be given stats and skills<BR>
as if they were an NPC.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >         Starship construction.                 32 pp.<BR>
> Aren't starships equipment? Why isn't this with the other<BR>
> equipment?<BR>
<BR>
There is a lot of tables and rules that go into construction.<BR>
It is complex enough to make an interesting solitaire game,<BR>
but (usually) not complex enough to frustrate the average<BR>
human.  It is the selection of components in such a way that<BR>
a basic design goal is made to fit within resource restrictions.<BR>
Usually, the restriction is cost, but it can also be volume.<BR>
Checks and balances, design evaluation, etc etc.<BR>
<BR>
> >         Selected TAS newsfeeds 10 years        15 pp.<BR>
> >            into the milieu.<BR>
> Have you explained what TAS is yet or will you do so here?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I put in the wrong acronym.  The correct term is<BR>
'TNS', which stands for Traveller News Service.  Information<BR>
would be blurbed out in manageable chunks in the format of<BR>
a news bulletin.  For example, here's one from CT:<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------<BR>
<BR>
Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 187-1107<BR>
The Duke of Regina, speaking through his seneschal, announced in an<BR>
emergency press conference that as of 12:01 A.M. this date a formal<BR>
state of war has existed between the Imperium and the Zhodani<BR>
Consulate. The seneschal explained that the declaration of war was<BR>
handed to him by Ambassador Shterbifriashav late last night. The<BR>
seneschal declined to answer questions, stating that no further<BR>
information was available at that time.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------<BR>
<BR>
These are great for adventure hooks, information sources, <BR>
and background.<BR>
<BR>
> Why not a whole sector or whole domain [or other<BR>
> 4 sector chunk]. A significant portion of this<BR>
> area should be outside the Imperium and/or alien<BR>
> to make it interesting. [Maybe Antares, Empty Quarter<BR>
> Fornast, & Ley for example]<BR>
<BR>
Your example has merits: it gives the players a detailed<BR>
world to originate from, and an increasingly general idea<BR>
of the surrounding worlds.<BR>
<BR>
I would suggest that excessive detail does not add to the<BR>
game, however.  Sector maps with accompanying UWP data can<BR>
be placed on a website (indeed, are all over our websites).<BR>
Therefore, what's more important is general information for<BR>
some key systems that players are likely to know about:<BR>
the Important worlds, corporations, and governments.  Etc.<BR>
<BR>
And, your suggestion for the fold-out map of the Domain<BR>
would be a nice touch.  I'd like to see that too.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:36:27 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
Hi Jesse.<BR>
<BR>
T4 evolved CT in several areas:<BR>
<BR>
1. A harder-science based construction system.<BR>
   This allowed you to build anything at all,<BR>
   with one consistent, reasonable, horribly<BR>
   detailed, design system.  The system first<BR>
   appeared in TNE, and is called Fire, Fusion,<BR>
   and Steel.<BR>
<BR>
   For those of us who can't stomach horrible detail,<BR>
   this system allows you (or better yet: others) to<BR>
   design modules which you can use to put things<BR>
   together.  For instance, they used FFS2 to design<BR>
   a bunch of jump drives, maneuver drives, sensor<BR>
   packages, commo packages, hull types and sizes,<BR>
   power plants, etc.  Those modules were bundled into<BR>
   what we call QSDS: the Quick Ship Design System.<BR>
   It is not quite as complex as High Guard;  however,<BR>
   it flows more smoothly.  In T4's Starships book,<BR>
   there is a more detailed design system, with <BR>
   components that can support Naval ship construction;<BR>
   that's called the SSDS: the Standard Ship Design<BR>
   System.  It's a bit lower level... or perhaps it<BR>
   just has a larger selection of components you can<BR>
   put on your ships.  At any rate, rules scalability<BR>
   meets consistency in T4.  Very nice.<BR>
<BR>
2. A task system.  <BR>
   I'm not sure if T4's task system is better than <BR>
   MT's task system, but CT didn't really have one<BR>
   until DGP built one (the one MT uses) in 1986 or so.<BR>
<BR>
   Oooh, wait.  There is one thing that sticks out<BR>
   about T4's task system that I love.  The target<BR>
   numbers.  Oh yes.  The target number in most cases<BR>
   is tied directly to a statistic.  If you have a<BR>
   size class 8 ship (100 to 999 dtons), the basic<BR>
   to-hit is an 8 or less.  Size 9 ship?  2000 dtons?<BR>
   Ok, that's a 9 or less.  Get it?  Physical stats<BR>
   work in a similar way.  Psionics are the same way.<BR>
   More integrated.  Therefore, cool.<BR>
<BR>
3. Psionics.<BR>
   I don't quite recall how psionics differs in the<BR>
   two systems, but I get the feeling that T4 managed<BR>
   to streamline those rules, too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
GURPS dismantled these improvements indirectly.<BR>
<BR>
1. They have their own construction rules; I don't<BR>
   need to learn a new set of rules, especially since<BR>
   I've got the feel of the relationships between<BR>
   Traveller components.<BR>
<BR>
2. The character generation rules are not a game;<BR>
   they're a means to an end: roleplaying.  There are<BR>
   no complex rules to roll up a career for a character;<BR>
   I'm stuck with using my flabby imagination.  I can't<BR>
   play the odds to try for the player to get decorated<BR>
   in battle.  There are just templates.  No real rules<BR>
   framework.  This is only bad if you want to run a<BR>
   person through a pre-game career.  By the way, it is<BR>
   fun.<BR>
<BR>
3. The UWPs are gone, and the starports are renumbered.<BR>
   It's mostly just appearance, so it's my prejudice.<BR>
   But those starcharts have even less data on them than<BR>
   they do in Traveller.  That should be fixed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
T4 ships in MT combat.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know how MT ship combat works.  I'd be inclined<BR>
to use "RPSCS" (the Role Playing Ship Combat System) or<BR>
the new version of Mayday at http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
MT starship construction.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I felt intimidated by the overwhelming number of<BR>
tables packed into those pages.  That, and the fact that<BR>
I wasn't really sure what all that data meant sometimes.<BR>
Of course, I felt that way about High Guard as well, so<BR>
naturally MT would elicit the same response...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
T4 starship combat.<BR>
<BR>
It was not clear from the outset what the purpose was<BR>
for each step of T4 combat.  Perhaps a flowchart would<BR>
have done the trick.  Anyhow, a lot of the rules were<BR>
more implied than spelled out -- maybe that was the <BR>
only problem.  I don't know.  I do know it took us<BR>
forever to unravel what the rules were really saying,<BR>
and I get impatient when I have to think too hard.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I hope that was the quality-level of opinion you were<BR>
looking for!<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:12:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
Charter Internatioanal wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.sailinggreece.com<BR>
> <BR>
> Discount Travel in Greece, Italy, and Mediterranean.<BR>
<BR>
What do y'all think?<BR>
<BR>
Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the<BR>
spammer?<BR>
<BR>
(Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That<BR>
Wouldn't Die.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:58:11 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>You really have much time,and nothing better do do<BR>
>(and to say,but that's been clear before).You are<BR>
>really entertaining!<BR>
<BR>
<sigh><BR>
<BR>
john, you're not getting the point. The people taking time<BR>
to point out your spelling mistakes aren't taking much time<BR>
at all...the implication being, that it wouldn't take much time<BR>
on *your* part to correct them in the first place.<BR>
<BR>
People have to stumble through spelling, punctuation and<BR>
other errors to read messages here anyway, it only takes a<BR>
moment to mark them down.<BR>
<BR>
You want "amusement" here, make it the kind that everyone will<BR>
enjoy. Do a race writeup, or share something from your campaign for <BR>
someone to borrow. If you enjoy cybertech or nanotech, come up with<BR>
some rule tweaks to use them in a variant Traveller Universe (TU).*<BR>
<BR>
From experience, the amount of attention people pay to spelling and<BR>
grammar errors drops drastically with the amount of content in the<BR>
post. If all that's in the post is snide remarks and responses to<BR>
snide remarks, then there's no real content for people to enjoy.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
*A note, if you present some ideas: people will tear them apart.<BR>
Expect this, it's a good reason to present them. What you have after<BR>
your idea has been torn down and put back together again will be<BR>
better than what you started with, even if you disagree with everyone<BR>
who critiqued it. But never take the critique of an idea personally,<BR>
and never respond to someone else's idea with something personal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:22:40 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
Jussi Kenkkil wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The worlds where these activities occur are interdicted because<BR>
> > the Droyne have convinced the Imperial authorities that they<BR>
> > need solitude to achieve this purpose.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Does this mean that all the Closers in YTU are Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  Wonder what John Rocker would think about that....<BR>
<BR>
(For those unfamiliar with the reference:  John Rocker is a "closer" [a<BR>
baseball relief pitcher specializing in pitching the last inning or so<BR>
of a game] who made some amazingly intemperate remarks about foreigners<BR>
[and others], while being interviewed for _Sports Illustrated_.  Rocker<BR>
was roundly condemned for his comments, receiving a hefty fine and<BR>
suspension from baseball commissioner Bud Selig.  This penalty was later<BR>
reduced to nearly nothing upon appeal.)<BR>
<BR>
"Sports Illustrated":  _Another_ Droyne reference?  Fnord.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:27:19 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MT vs CT (was: Best Rules System)<BR>
<BR>
I myself vastly preferred the basic chargen in MT to the CT version. The<BR>
major difference was in the increase in cascade skills, which allowed a<BR>
greater variety of skills; the addition of the "special duty" roll that<BR>
allowed you to acquire an extra skill; and the rule that any skill-bearing<BR>
(i.e., promotion, commission, or special duty) roll that was +4 of the<BR>
target number gave you an extra skill. This allowed you to generate<BR>
characters with more skills and a greater variety than was possible under<BR>
CT, but not as many as the walking encyclopedias that you could get with the<BR>
various enhanced systems. In that vein, I liked the Mercenary and High Guard<BR>
systems; Scouts was a headache, and Merchant Prince far too unbalanced (the<BR>
example listed a character who acquired seven separate skills in one term!)<BR>
I had a house rule that allowed characters using the basic system to still<BR>
attend the various precareer options, so that increased the skill mix as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
MT personal combat was something of a mess. I hated the lifeforce stats<BR>
(i.e., 777 becomes 3/5 or whatever.) I thought the penetration rules were<BR>
odd, never having been exposed to Striker. I like the idea of penetration<BR>
values, but thought the nil-half damage-full damage results were somewhat<BR>
clunky. I had a bunch of various combat fixes, most of them oriented around<BR>
penetration - armor = number of dice of damage, which were deducted from<BR>
characteristics as in CT. The damage rating of each weapon can be used as a<BR>
cap on the possible damage done by the weapon (so your TL-13 laser doesn't<BR>
do 29 dice to an unarmored target!) In this variation, instead of doubling<BR>
or quadrupling damage for exceptional success, you roll an extra die for<BR>
each number your roll exceeds the target number. You always get to do<BR>
exceptional damage, as in the regular rules. However, to really make this<BR>
system work you had to tinker with the published weapon tables.<BR>
<BR>
I never noticed anything too bad in MT ship design, but I'm not a gearhead<BR>
:)<BR>
I actually got to the point where I more or less enjoyed designing ships in<BR>
it. It does seem clear now that it overestimated the amount of fuel a fusion<BR>
plant would need.<BR>
<BR>
I have to quote somebody else here: the MT ship combat system was FUBAR.<BR>
Hated it, hated a movement system without momentum(!), hated the whole<BR>
hit/penetration system (I know, it was a port from High Guard, but HG never<BR>
seemed to bug me as much.) I wanted a system more like the personal combat<BR>
system, i.e. hit and pen in one roll.<BR>
<BR>
As a personal bug, why is it that Trav (all varieties) always assumes that a<BR>
successful hit always does a predetermined amount of damage to the USP or<BR>
whatever? It never seemed logical to me that a factor 1 p-laser turret could<BR>
blow up 10% of a 10,000 ton cruiser's fuel, or disable 9 laser turrets (the<BR>
difference between factor 8 and factor 7). But that's just a personal gripe.<BR>
It just seems to me that Trav assumes that starship combat will be fairly<BR>
brief, with successful hits rapidly degrading each ship's abilities, rather<BR>
than an extended slugfest. However, this opinion is based more on<BR>
observation of the rules rather than experience; I never ran the MT starship<BR>
combat enough to form an empirical opinion.<BR>
<BR>
The best thing about MT was the task system. That's the major reason I<BR>
wouldn't return to CT (that, and a dislike of the CT combat system's<BR>
conception.) It's the shining star of all the task systems I've ever seen.<BR>
For a while I felt that it didn't give enough weight to high abilities, but<BR>
I see now that was because it needed to work in situations where only skills<BR>
applied.<BR>
<BR>
Overall, with a fix to the combat system, and adoption of the various T4/FFS<BR>
modular starship construction systems, and just about anybody's starship<BR>
combat system, I think MT was probably the smoothest and most flexible Trav<BR>
system I saw...I never played TNE, so I abstain on that particular question.<BR>
MT, even with its flaws, was still vastly superior to the T4 task and combat<BR>
system, IMHO, and I hope T5 tries to recapture some of its mechanisms (only<BR>
roll 2D for task rolls, for example.)<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:12:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: YKYPTMTW...<BR>
<BR>
You know you play too much Traveller when:<BR>
<BR>
A friend tells you that your blind date is a "vegan", and you wonder what someone from Muan Gwi is doing slumming on pre-starflight Terra....<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
_________________________________________<BR>
eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:22:23 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 18 March 2000 11:39<BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--- Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
>> >YOU ARE WRONG!<BR>
>> >I made one.An "a" in "actually" is missing!<BR>
>> >> > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is<BR>
>> from<BR>
>> >> the<BR>
>> >> > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it<BR>
>> features a<BR>
>> >> > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
>> >> > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary egyptian,but<BR>
>> that<BR>
>> >> was<BR>
>> >> > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually<BR>
>> tried<BR>
>> >> to<BR>
>> >> > revive the ancient culture,and had some success<BR>
>> >> > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
>> >> christianity.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> That's the only one you spotted?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I count 4 spelling mistakes, 7 missing spaces, 2<BR>
>> transposed spaces and<BR>
>> punctuation marks. and 4 debatable missing capitals.<BR>
>> That's 17 mistakes in<BR>
>> 62 words,<BR>
><BR>
>You really have much time,and nothing better do do<BR>
>(and to say,but that's been clear before).You are<BR>
>really entertaining!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<Sigh> If only *you* were...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2126</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 19 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2126<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Re: Murphy's?<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Guinness<BR>
An Amusing Gearheaded Quote<BR>
Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Greece<BR>
Grav Ball (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
Re: Trav Freeforms<BR>
Re: Guinness<BR>
RE: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Massive firepower<BR>
Fwd: Welcome to deadlands@gamerz.net<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Killerbowl<BR>
How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
RE: Trav Freeforms<BR>
Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
re: How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:30:58 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 18 March 2000 13:15<BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> On 18 Mar 00, at 3:32, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> ><BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > --- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
>> > ><BR>
>> > > > > Actually,they could ,as the Rosetta stone is<BR>
>> > > from the<BR>
>> > > > > Ptolemaic,Mazedon period of Egypt,as it<BR>
>> features<BR>
>> > > a<BR>
>> > > > > (rather irrelevant) text both in greek as in<BR>
>> > > > > hieroglyphs( and in contemporary<BR>
>> egyptian,but<BR>
>> > > that was<BR>
>> > > > > uninportant)The greek rulers of E. ctually<BR>
>> tried<BR>
>> > > to<BR>
>> > > > > revive the ancient culture,and had some<BR>
>> success<BR>
>> > > > > withit.It survived till it was replaced with<BR>
>> > > christianity.<BR>
>> > ><BR>
>> > > Pity about the weird comma placement and the<BR>
>> lack of<BR>
>> > > spaces after some<BR>
>> > > full-stops.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > You really trying hard to amuse  me,and you're<BR>
>> getting<BR>
>> > results ,even if it's actually a pity that you<BR>
>> > desperatly trying to make this a spelling<BR>
>> contest,but<BR>
>> > that's everything you can reply.Your really a<BR>
>> soory existence.<BR>
>><BR>
>> What you said above was actually slightly<BR>
>> interesting<BR>
><BR>
>In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Now, now... You don't know *what* school he went to.  But at least he went<BR>
to one and leaned how to write...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:40:20 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 18 March 2000 15:29<BR>
Subject: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, if anyone has a copy of the appropriate Alien Module, I'd<BR>
>appreciate it if you could look and see if there are any Chirper (or<BR>
>Droyne!) worlds in the Solomani Rim.  Drop me a line here or in<BR>
>private if you think you can pin down the locations of any.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, according to the map on the Inside Back Cover of AM5: Droyne, there<BR>
are no Droyne or Chirper worlds in the Solomani Rim.  However, it also only<BR>
shows one Chirper and no Droyne worlds in Diaspora, which in later stuff<BR>
(esp. TNE) has Droyne & Chirper populations scattered like confetti<BR>
throughout.<BR>
<BR>
Make of this what you will...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:41:09 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Murphy's?<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com <Qstor@aol.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 18 March 2000 15:34<BR>
Subject: Murphy's?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>If Guiness is evil is Murphy's good? :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Murphy's rules! <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:29:01 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: houstonshocky@webtv.net <houstonshocky@webtv.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 18 March 2000 12:35<BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
k = kilo<BR>
C = Celsius<BR>
K = Calvin<BR>
- ------------------------<BR>
H = Hobbes <g><BR>
<BR>
BTW K = Kelvin, as in Lord Kelvin<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:27:15 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Guinness<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 18 March 2000 12:16<BR>
Subject: Re: Guinness<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>The current president of Guinnes was on Fox News Friday.<BR>
>He mentioned something very interesting about the St. James<BR>
>Gate Brewery.  How long is the lease for? 7,000 years!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>bloo<BR>
>Guinness Drinker for Life or Liver (whichever ends first)<BR>
><BR>
So that's another potential megacorp surviving from our times to 1100<BR>
Imperial... And still only halfway through it's lease <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:31:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: An Amusing Gearheaded Quote<BR>
<BR>
I saw this in the sig file of a poster to alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die, and thought that some of the gearheads on the TML (such as the Famile Spofulam crew, Gridlore Technologies, etc.) would find it apropos:<BR>
<BR>
Q:  What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?<BR>
<BR>
A:  Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets.<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:44:24 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?<BR>
<BR>
> From: Volker Greimann <BR>
> >Guinness is evil.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I will rephrase that:  many, many pints of Guinness is evil.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why? (he asked, 3 being the highers number of pints of Guiness he ever<BR>
had)<BR>
<BR>
Clearly none of them were evil!<BR>
<BR>
I was, of course, commenting on all tasks becoming one difficulty level<BR>
higher when hungover...<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:02:45 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
> Since I seem to have landed the position of Chief Scout for this, I'll<BR>
set<BR>
> up a website for staking claims, then hosting the results.  Don't be<BR>
afraid<BR>
> the meddle with the planets to get results you like.<BR>
<BR>
I'll grab one in a few days, once my current deadline nonsense is resolved.<BR>
<BR>
I'll probably grab a world in Aramis subsector, or one of the ones just<BR>
inside the border in Vilis or Lanth.  Expect lots of Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:40:28 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
> From: Charter Internatioanal <BR>
> Discount Travel in Greece, Italy, and Mediterranean.<BR>
<BR>
So, why should we discount it?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, have we been spammed again?<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:32:22 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Grav Ball (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche<BR>
><BR>
>> There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
> Any chance of getting me a URL?<BR>
<BR>
I don't have the URL anymore but I sure have the<BR>
HTML files and imbedded graphics themselves.<BR>
They truly rock!<BR>
<BR>
So..<BR>
<BR>
Who wants 'em?<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:51:52 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> We should get our shit together and write one for CanCon next year.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wouldnt go for a really big freeform, but you could get 30 people for a<BR>
> Trav freeform, easy.<BR>
<BR>
We should.<BR>
<BR>
I haven't done anything like this before, but if a bunch of us work on<BR>
it...<BR>
<BR>
I haven't been to CanCon for ages either, but that's no hassle.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm...  I'm in deadline doom mode at the moment, but I'll leave the idea<BR>
brewing for a couple of days.  There are a couple of people in Brisbane I<BR>
could bounce the idea off.  Are you in touch with anyone who has run this<BR>
kind of thing before?<BR>
<BR>
Are any of the other Australians on the list interested in working on a<BR>
freeform?<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:41:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Guinness<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matthew Bond <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>
>From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
>To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
>Date: 18 March 2000 12:16<BR>
>Subject: Re: Guinness<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>The current president of Guinnes was on Fox News Friday.<BR>
>>He mentioned something very interesting about the St. James<BR>
>>Gate Brewery.  How long is the lease for? 7,000 years!!!!<BR>
>><BR>
>>bloo<BR>
>>Guinness Drinker for Life or Liver (whichever ends first)<BR>
>><BR>
>So that's another potential megacorp surviving from our times to 1100<BR>
>Imperial... And still only halfway through it's lease <g><BR>
<BR>
No, Guinness will never be a _megacorp_; that scale of production would ruin the product.<BR>
<BR>
The company that handles interstellar _distribution_ of such products as Guinness, Tullamore Dew, and other prized potent potables recently hailed on this list, OTOH....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:49:46 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
<BR>
> > This came up a while back on the list; some people came up with<BR>
> > references to some books, notably one called 'Killerball' ('Killerbowl'<BR>
> > perhaps?) which was football with a combat motif. (The playing field is<BR>
> > a part of a city, and one player on each side is an 'Assasin'; he gets<BR>
> > to hide out with a single shot rifle and one bullet and, well, even the<BR>
> > odds once per game)<BR>
><BR>
>     At first, this seemed so simple and crude that I said: "useless" but<BR>
> then I got to thinking about it. You get to shoot one guy and another is<BR>
> out there with a single bullet just for you.<BR>
>     This appears to be a really cool version of Russian roulette with more<BR>
> action and better chances of living.<BR>
<BR>
This came from early 2000AD<BR>
<BR>
And _why_ is an interesting topic too.<BR>
<BR>
2000AD was a "parody" if that's the right word, of the UK weekly boys<BR>
magazines such as "Boys Own", "Eagle", "Tiger",. and the like ( so much so<BR>
that "Eagle" magazine was re-started by a concerned citizen as a direct<BR>
attempt to stop the rot that was represeted by 2000AD, but that's another<BR>
story)<BR>
<BR>
In these boys magazines, one of the staples is the strip about the under-dog<BR>
football (that's _Association_Football_, or soccer to the yanks out there)<BR>
team<BR>
that does good through star players, and usually has to fight sabotage from<BR>
not so nice opposing teams and the "system"<BR>
<BR>
Usually there is an ex-hero in the team with a dark past or major failure<BR>
who  gets to redeem himself in this team.<BR>
<BR>
So the 2000AD strip was based on these strips, but twisted, as all 2000AD<BR>
stories are, to match the dystopic view of the future generated by growing<BR>
up<BR>
among the multi-generational unnemployed of Thatcher's England.<BR>
<BR>
There were several interesting rules in the game, such as that all residents<BR>
of the part of the city where the game was being played were evacuated, and<BR>
were reimbursed for damage to their property during the game, but they were<BR>
also allowed to stay and _defend_ their property, adding unpredictably<BR>
dangerous obstacles to the field.<BR>
<BR>
I'd get more details, only I can't remember what issues they appeared in,<BR>
and I don't have time to search all 700 odd issues I have. Now, when I get<BR>
round to scanning them all onto CD with cross-indexing, which I have to do<BR>
before the paper rots completely, I'll be able to do this easily <grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > The thread immediately degenerated into comparisons between American and<BR>
> > Aussie football, rugby, and just who was tougher, and _that_ went on to<BR>
> > the _next_ logical subject, _beer_, but that's to be expected around<BR>
> > here ;-)<BR>
> > Did someone say beer?<BR>
> > Why, I don't mind if I do!<BR>
> > Bruce Johnson<BR>
><BR>
>     Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for<BR>
> very long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary potables"<BR>
> for their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?<BR>
><BR>
> Later.<BR>
><BR>
> Jesse.<BR>
> vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:50:29 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
Ken St-Cyr kindly posted:<BR>
><BR>
> > > There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Any chance of getting me a URL?<BR>
><BR>
> Missouri archives, under General/GravBall:<BR>
> http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/GravBall/<BR>
<BR>
Bless you, Ken. This is much better than sending out<BR>
the files.<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:02:30 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Massive firepower<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/17/00 7:58:57 PM !!!First Boot!!!, GDWGAMES@aol.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Don't have the precise reference but the first instance I am aware of in <BR>
the <BR>
 US Army was a regiment of mounted infantry in the ACW that were equipped <BR>
with <BR>
 lever-action Henry repeaters (described by one observer as "the damyankee <BR>
gun <BR>
 that you load on Sunday and fire the rest of the week") at the colonel's <BR>
 expense. IIRC they were first blooded at Chicamauga (sic?), where the <BR>
 Confederates reported encountering a division based on the hail of bullets <BR>
 they encountered.  >><BR>
<BR>
That was the "Wilder Lightning" Brigade (named after the Col. who created <BR>
it). They had Spencers (same net results as with Henry's...:-)), and fought <BR>
this engagement at Spring Hill? I got this info from one of the GDW products <BR>
(the scenario expansion booklet for Johnny Reb). Good products Loren...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 03:07:41 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Fwd: Welcome to deadlands@gamerz.net<BR>
<BR>
Some nice bits i got from the welcome message of the deadlands ML. Sounds <BR>
like a good idea to add to ours as well, just in case...<BR>
<BR>
>Before we go on, here are the rules of the List:<BR>
><BR>
>3)  EXERCISE COMMON COURTESY AND NETIQUETTE.  If you're not sure what this<BR>
>     means, you'd probably better unsubscribe now.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>By the same token, this mailing list is meant to be for Deadlands, and we <BR>
>expect<BR>
>that the MAJORITY of the conversation will revolve around the appropriate <BR>
>topics<BR>
>So if you're one of those folks that thinks you have the RIGHT to FREE <BR>
>SPEACH[sic] and you should be able to send ANYTHING to the list you want, <BR>
>and that we should all LIGHTEN UP anyways, TURN BACK NOW!<BR>
><BR>
>    *  Off-topic responses to off-topic messages are prohibited.<BR>
><BR>
>This has also been recently made into a hard, fast rule and should be treated<BR>
>as such.<BR>
<BR>
>SUBJECT HEADERS<BR>
>---------------<BR>
>If you're responding to a message and your response is about something<BR>
>substantially different than what one might guess from the subject header,<BR>
>change the subject header.<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 03:13:09 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 02:02 19.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>I'll grab one in a few days, once my current deadline nonsense is resolved.<BR>
Good luck!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'll probably grab a world in Aramis subsector<BR>
If you do, be sure to check out The Traveller Adventure, which has some of <BR>
those worlds detailed more or less already.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:25:41 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Thing <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Droyne worlds...<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, according to the map on the Inside Back Cover of AM5: Droyne, there<BR>
> are no Droyne or Chirper worlds in the Solomani Rim.  However, it also only<BR>
> shows one Chirper and no Droyne worlds in Diaspora, which in later stuff<BR>
> (esp. TNE) has Droyne & Chirper populations scattered like confetti<BR>
> throughout.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe they went on a colonization spree.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
=======<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:24:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
> Okay, I hope that was the quality-level of opinion you were<BR>
> looking for!<BR>
> Rob<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for your input Rob, hope I didn't bother you too much<BR>
with the questions :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:46:33 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Killerbowl<BR>
<BR>
> I'd get more details, only I can't remember what issues they appeared in,<BR>
> and I don't have time to search all 700 odd issues I have. Now, when I get<BR>
> round to scanning them all onto CD with cross-indexing, which I have to do<BR>
> before the paper rots completely, I'll be able to do this easily <grin><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
<BR>
    I am definitely working this one into my game, if you remember any more<BR>
of the rules to it- please feel free to post them :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later and thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:59:18 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
<BR>
	Does anyone have a reference for the rules/suggestions for laying out<BR>
x-boat routes? Preferably on line. <BR>
	I'm trying to build a non-canon Imperial sector, and lastly need to add<BR>
the x-boat routes. <BR>
<BR>
	Thanks. <BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:42:09 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav Freeforms<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Alan Bradley<BR>
> I haven't been to CanCon for ages either, but that's no hassle.<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm...  I'm in deadline doom mode at the moment, but I'll leave the idea<BR>
> brewing for a couple of days.  There are a couple of people in Brisbane I<BR>
> could bounce the idea off.  Are you in touch with anyone who has run this<BR>
> kind of thing before?<BR>
><BR>
> Are any of the other Australians on the list interested in working on a<BR>
> freeform?<BR>
<BR>
I'm a kiwi, but I have a reasonable amount of experience with LARPS, helped<BR>
with the Aliens : Apocalypse LARP here last year, some 70-odd people being<BR>
terrorized by huge Aliens. Still have several of the Aliens costumes in the<BR>
garage. I also breifly ran the local VtM LARP, and am currently involved in<BR>
a Mage LARP.<BR>
<BR>
I'll help anyway I can, and depending on when and where you organize it, I<BR>
may be able to get over ther (I travel about once every two months to Aussie<BR>
on business, usualy to Melbourne or Sydney)<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:02:52 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon and blind playtestingRe: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
At 3:19 AM -0800 3/18/00, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, you're  right.<BR>
>And no, the most popular SF (exp. on TV) ignores<BR>
>internal logic.E.G.Star Treks miracle machine.<BR>
>(I think they called it " Transporter" or something<BR>
>like that)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The point isn't "miracleness", it consistence.  And<BR>
yes, Star Trek has been popular in spite of its poor<BR>
job of maintaining consistency, not because of it.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:18:27 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
<BR>
Thomas Jones-Low wrote:<BR>
>Does anyone have a reference for the rules/suggestions for laying out<BR>
>x-boat routes? Preferably on line. <BR>
>I'm trying to build a non-canon Imperial sector, and lastly need to add<BR>
>the x-boat routes. <BR>
<BR>
First off: X-Boat routes in the Spinward Marches are odd, to say the<BR>
least. They don't always connect major worlds, they don't always<BR>
take the most direct routes, and they are often inefficient.<BR>
<BR>
The best explanation I've come up with for this: X-Boat routes are<BR>
like the Railroad in the American Old West. If an X-Boat route comes<BR>
through a system, so will (eventually) long-distance liners and freighters,<BR>
secondary industries, additional colonization, etc.  Becoming a stop<BR>
on an X-Boat link can make the difference between a world becoming<BR>
an economic hub - someday, if not the day the link is initiated - and<BR>
the world being relegated to backwater status.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore, the nobles and governments interested in certain worlds will<BR>
do everything in their power - cajole, bribe, send ninjas in the middle<BR>
of the night, *everything* they are financially and morally capable of - to<BR>
make sure a new X-Boat route passes through their planet instead of<BR>
the planet two subsectors over.<BR>
<BR>
So, an X-Boat route will connect the most powerful planets in the sector.<BR>
The routes *between* these powerful planets, on the other hand, could<BR>
go almost anywhere, depending on the intrigues of the worlds fighting<BR>
over the route.<BR>
<BR>
So, suggestion? Figure out who you want the most powerful planets<BR>
in the sector to be, and make a rough guess where X-Boat routes ought<BR>
to leave the sector. Now trace routes between the most powerful planets,<BR>
and from the most powerful planets in the edge subsectors to the <BR>
approximate locations of powerful planets outside the sector. <BR>
<BR>
As long as the connections are more than jump-1 and less than jump-5,<BR>
feel free to make them, but try to keep most of them in the jump-3<BR>
to jump-4 range. <BR>
<BR>
Want to make an interesting subsector? Tweak the X-Boat routes<BR>
*around* it, or at least along the edges of it. You can make a polity of<BR>
planets deep within the Imperium who almost feel like they belong to<BR>
a different empire, they'll be so relatively isolated.<BR>
<BR>
Make sure that a Navy base on a frontier (if you have a frontier) is at or near <BR>
an X-Boat route, so that war news can leave on the next boat towards core. <BR>
Otherwise, keep the X-boat routes away from danger zones like borders.<BR>
If a route heads towards a border, have it end there, not be a link to<BR>
elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Just for fun, the intrigues and power structures that decided where<BR>
X-Boat routes go could have happened a century ago, and things<BR>
could certainly have changed since then. Perhaps a government<BR>
paupered itself to get an X-Boat connection, and nothing came of<BR>
it except early mail...or perhaps a fight is going on right now over<BR>
which way a new link to a planet of growing importance will go.<BR>
<BR>
No hard and fast rules, sorry...but X-Boat routes can indicate some<BR>
interesting happenings.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:49:34 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:12:00 -0600<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
><BR>
>Charter Internatioanal wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> http://www.sailinggreece.com<BR>
>><BR>
>> Discount Travel in Greece, Italy, and Mediterranean.<BR>
><BR>
>What do y'all think?<BR>
><BR>
>Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the<BR>
>spammer?<BR>
><BR>
>(Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That<BR>
>Wouldn't Die.)<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to know what rule set they prefer and if they have any<BR>
extended UWP data for the Islands Cluster.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Veni, Vidi, Vacca.<BR>
I came, I saw, I had a cow<BR>
   - Bart Caeser<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2126<BR>
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Precedence: bulk


Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 19 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2127



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125
Trav Freeforms
RE: Droyne in the Spinward Marches (and elsewhere)
Potables
Re: Best Rules System
Re: Here's another try for T5.
Re: Best rules system
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares
X-Booat routes
Dave hypen rides again
Threats by Mad Bikers
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
RE: Trav Freeforms
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab
Re: How to lay out X-boat routes?
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.
Re: Alien Sport
Re: Disappearance at Aramat?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:30:12 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> Subject: Re: Greece
>
> Charter Internatioanal wrote:
> >
> > http://www.sailinggreece.com
> >
> > Discount Travel in Greece, Italy, and Mediterranean.
>
> What do y'all think?
>
> Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the
> spammer?
>

Go for it. Note that The Company is never named.

> (Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That
> Wouldn't Die.)

Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the
flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with
     (a) elephant-mounted Particle Accelerators
     (b) the military version of the Jet Bike (I'm thinking of the racing
version with a 50kg long-rod penetrator
     (c) a new, upgraded Sound System
     (d) a Ground Car.

Note that none of these exist. Yet.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:37:19 +1100
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Trav Freeforms

> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:42:09 +1200
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Subject: RE: Trav Freeforms
>
> I'm a kiwi, but I have a reasonable amount of experience with LARPS,
helped
> with the Aliens : Apocalypse LARP here last year, some 70-odd people being
> terrorized by huge Aliens. Still have several of the Aliens costumes in
the
> garage. I also breifly ran the local VtM LARP, and am currently involved
in
> a Mage LARP.

I wrote Small Furry Animals with Guns, and people played in it and the
sequel.

> I'll help anyway I can, and depending on when and where you organize it, I
> may be able to get over ther (I travel about once every two months to
Aussie
> on business, usualy to Melbourne or Sydney)

Australia Day long weekend next year - probably around January 28.

I'd suggest some sort of District 268 peace conference, held on Collace.
Players can be from the Imperium, Sword Worlds, Darrians, a Zhodani
Proconsul, the Trexalon Techncal Corp and a couple of Aslan clans. Plus the
various Indies, Corps and Free Traders. Run it as a 2 session game, with a
half hour of game time representing an hour of real time - time lag in
getting orders and such back to head office.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:50:40 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: RE: Droyne in the Spinward Marches (and elsewhere)

"VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com> types:

>>
According to my files, the following worlds are Droyne/Chirper:

Sector WorldName Hex UWP
<...>
Zhdant     Yaskekue 0514 B6876X3-E
Zhdant     Kaythe 1217 A4855X5-E
Zhdant     Ayssthon 1334 A346856-E
Zhdant     Oythepru 2034 A66586B-C
Tienspevnekr     Irdyarut 1314 B46477C-A
Tienspevnekr     Siskayas 1822 C5877X7-5

Can't speak to the canonicity of anything outside the Imperium, of course.
YMMV.

Fred Ramen
<<

 Neither can I, but I might be convinced to cough up the Library Data I did 
on the two worlds in Tienspevnekr when I generated the sector. Or I could 
just post them:

>>
 Droyne in Tienspevnekr:
    The discovery of Droyne in Zarontse and Jianjshte subsectors was
an occasion for both joy and puzzlement among the Zhodani.  The
Zhodani had shared Zhdant with Chirpers, and were not ready for
the mature, self-determined cultures of the Droyne on Irdyarut
and Siskayas. Siskayas was studied from concealment for decades
before any contact was attempted, and Idryarut, with its advancing
technology, was a forbidden world for thousands of years.

 Siskayas (1822 C5877X7-5   Unabsorbed):
    The Droyne colony on Siskayas is a confirmed Ancients site. The
great hive-cities which are the centers of culture on Siskayas have
been standing for far longer than any native history documents. The
presence of working artifacts is suspected, but remains unconfirmed.
The Droyne here have not progressed significantly since shortly
after the advent of Coyns, and are quite happy with their condition.
The permanent population of Siskayas is entirely Droyne.


 Irdyarut (1314 B46477C-A  Z  Unabsorbed):
    In contrast with Siskayas (1822), the advanced Droyne world of
Irdyarut has no detectable trace of the Ancients, though obviously
the Droyne have been on the world since the Ancient's War.  The
spacefaring technology of the Irdyarut Droyne seems to be entirely
their own work.  In the period of Zhodani surveilance of Irdyarut
(they were discovered in -5072 Imperial) they have advanced from
TL 7 to their current TL 10.  The system had Forbidden Status until
790 (Imperial), when a Droyne exploration craft discovered the
Zhodani Navy base in the outer system.  The Irdyarut Droyne have
reached a plateau, however, and stopped advancing technologically
in 540 (Imperial).  A war in 760 was the impetus for the space
program which found the Zhodani.  The traditional Droyne conservatism
causes them to actively resist advances in technology (something
the Zhodani are reluctant to offer anyway), but the actual reasons
behind their abrupt change of attitude are still a mystery to Zhodani
observers.  The Irdyarut Droyne do not have jump drive.

<<

GC

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:06:40 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Potables

>    Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for
>very long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary potables"
>for their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?
>
>Later.
>
>Jesse.
>vanquer@email.msn.com

Canon (GDW): Skymellon Wine, Vilan Wines
Semi-Canon (DGP): Scout Brew (from Traveller's Digest)
IMTU: Vargr Coffee (Actually a tea much like hot chocolate in taste, but
without the stuff that makes canids ill). Jack Daniels (A status issue in
the marches). Aslan Spice Teas, whihc are extremely varied in taste, color,
and non-aslan toxicities. Stregg (stolen liberally from the Sten Series), a
fermented blood-milk mixture using the blood and milk from a
xeno-herbivore/xeno-mammal; it has strong narcotic effects on H. Sapiens
(Including H.S. Terrestrius, H.S. Vilani, and H.S. Zhdantl).

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:16:22 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Best Rules System

>    I agree with you on MT's Chargen. I liked it quite a bit
>myself, although I found it a bit difficult to add in any new
>professions. That isn't a let-down though :-)

I found it easy enough to add them. It's not significantly harder than for
CT. I added Civil Aviation and two others (I can't recall them right now;
have to check my files)

>> Now, detractions:
>> MT's ship construction system is out of hand.
>> GURPS ship construction system seems a bit
>> arbitrary?  (I have little experience there).
>
>    What specifically did you find "out of hand" in
>MT's ship construction? I know quite a bit of those
>problems myself since this is the one area that I really
>dug into when I had my MT set, but I'd like to hear
>other opinions.

Personally, I Like MT's design system, but I've never agreed with basing CP
costs off of cost; control points should be formulaic by size and
complexity of object. While cost should also correlate to these two, I
disagree with the scaling ( although I don't have a "fix" for it; I find no
reason to do one).

>> MT doesn't seem to mesh personal combat with
>> ship combat (perhaps it should).
>
>    That was my own viewpoint, although some of the
>more recent posts on the subject are making me think
>that I was really missing something on that end.

It never says you can, but it provides the damage point thresholds for
doing so in the "Rating" section. In the "Large Scale Combat Rules" from
_Referee's Companion_, it points out ships are always individual units.
There are guidelines for anti-vehicle fire and starship weapons in the PM
and RM.

If one reall wants to, one can use the LSC rules for space battles, and
thus use the vehicular damage rules, rather than the space combat rules.


William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:46:32 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Here's another try for T5.

Pardon my interjection here.... but I couldn't resist! ;)

Rob Replies to Peter THusly
>Classic Traveller actually hinted at this somewhat.
>Animals have hit points instead of END, speed instead
>of DEX, and equivalent damage instead of STR (damage
>as pistol-1 or claws-1 ... ).  I think a change like
>you mentioned might be useful for special encounters,
>but in that case they can be given stats and skills
>as if they were an NPC.

Actually, Rob, if you look at it again, you might see it this way:
Equivalent damage: indicates combination of effectiveness of natural weapon
and strength. Due to the nature of melee weapons, it also accounts for
dexterity.

Speed: is related to the humman speed of (IIRC) 4 ( see movement and range
bands in _TTB_, in the combat section).

Hits, just as for PC's, is the SUM of Str, Dex, and End. High speed animals
TEND to be more dexterous. Chasers would have higher endurances, as would
fast grazers, most animals with high flee scores, etc. Whatever is left is
End. So, IMTU, I base total "Physical Atts" upon the respective size, with
all atts having a minimum of roughly the same dice as the "Hits to
unconsciousness" are rolled upon. Note that humans would be roughly 2d/4d,
thus presenting us with 6d total to divvy...

This is how I built many alien races for MTU. Unfortunately, I've lost the
notes for them.

>> Why not a whole sector or whole domain [or other
>> 4 sector chunk]. A significant portion of this
>> area should be outside the Imperium and/or alien
>> to make it interesting. [Maybe Antares, Empty Quarter
>> Fornast, & Ley for example]
>
>Your example has merits: it gives the players a detailed
>world to originate from, and an increasingly general idea
>of the surrounding worlds.

On a domain-level, I's suiggest one key subsector be detailed per sector...

And skip the "Detailed world to 20 pages"; instead give a 4 page system
example for one system per "Detailed subsector":
page A: 1/3 to 1/4 page World Map and whatever cultural/social/political
expansions T5 will be using, in a manner similar to DGP's WBH/GS/GC... the
expanded UPP plus a text paragraph or 3.
Page B: System overview of entire system. Shows the "F" mapping of the
system's orbits (Worlds run down in relative proportion, moons run to right
in relative orbital progressions, but not to scale with vertical). Also
includes Std T5 UPP's per subordinate world.
Pages C & D: a RICE paper. Possibly with adventure hooks.

>I would suggest that excessive detail does not add to the
>game, however.  Sector maps with accompanying UWP data can
>be placed on a website (indeed, are all over our websites).
>Therefore, what's more important is general information for
>some key systems that players are likely to know about:
>the Important worlds, corporations, and governments.  Etc.

I myself would prefer to have a 32-40 page book per domain, with the maps
the UPP's, and some Library Data and TNS feeds, plus a color map, than to
have to get the data from an on-line source. a 100+p book, with color maps,
dot-maps with old borders, some detailed sectors, and some neat stuff on a
few worlds of note is best... IMHO.

>And, your suggestion for the fold-out map of the Domain
>would be a nice touch.  I'd like to see that too.

I find the maps to be essential for sectors. I want a copyable and crisp
black on white map for each sector, plus a nice domain fold-out. And on the
copyable, I don't want routes or borders... While I like to tinker, I hate
to have to "Erase" stuff from the photocopies... Then OTOH, two each
photocopiable (one with all the junk (routes, zones, borders) for "Current
Era" campaigns, one with just system displayed data (for when I run in
different times or when players or campaign background result in changes)
would be preferable to me to a color fold-out... and OTGH the two crisp
photocopiables per sector plus the Color Domain Map is heaven.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:48:51 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Best rules system

Rob Writes:
>T4 ships in MT combat.
>
>I don't know how MT ship combat works.  I'd be inclined
>to use "RPSCS" (the Role Playing Ship Combat System) or
>the new version of Mayday at http://www.bits.org.uk/
>
MT is essentially HG for ship-to-ship, unless you opt to use the vehicular
combat rules, in which case ignore the whole shebang of the "Space Combat"
rules.

A few minor changes, but essentially HG task-ized.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:21:43 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab

I'll take L'oeil d'Dieu.
(3010 B98A510-B N 502 G1V M9V)

Could anyone with 'The Traveller Adventure' please send me a summary of
the description posted there.

In BtC, the world is a big seafood farm owned by Sharurshid LIC.

I'll spice things up a little.

Gimme a couple of weeks to knock over this exam I'm sitting...

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:22:50 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares

Thom Jones-Low wrote :-
>         None of this has answered my original question. Would a magnetic field
> strong enough to protect against the worst effect of the solar flare
> cause its own (more severe) problems?

How strong a field do we need?
The Earth's magnetic field is on the order of 10^(-7) Tesla.
Magnetic resonance imagers have field strengths of 1-5 Tesla.

Transcranial magnetic stimulators have been trialled over the last five
years or so as a replacement for electroconvulsive therapy for
refractory depression. The field strength in the cortex is somewhere
between 2-10 Tesla.

Field strengths in excess of 10 Tesla will induce currents in nerve and
muscle tissue leading to twitching, and transient neurological
impairment.

"O.K. Start counting to five. When you get to three, I'll switch on the
stimulator."
"One. Two. Th-"
<click>
"Th- Th- Th- Th-"
<click>
"-ree."

Beyond 30 Tesla, generalised fitting ensues.
Above 50 Tesla, induced currents across the surface of the heart lead to
refractory ventricular fibrillation and asystole (no electrical
activity) very soon thereafter.
Above 100 Tesla, blood will begin to coagulate due to induced current.


Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
* The values above are based on distant recall. ISTR that the orders of
magnitude involved are correct.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:41:35 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com>
Subject: X-Booat routes

Someone's recent post on X-Boat routes got me thinking

Has anyone done a map of xboat routes on an Imperium-wide scale?
It is difficult to see from individual sectors. Does all long distance 
message traffic pass through Core in a 'hub' type of transmission,
say a message from Vland to Ley Sector going through Core first?

Hopefully someone can help, just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel


Cheers

Derrick

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:21:05 +1100
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au>
Subject: Dave hypen rides again

Hey TML dudes, Hyphen's posted Striker errata and Modified
Mayday Missiles rules on his lovely fluffy website.

Be there or be square.

http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw


 Michael (formerly knows as SEC: UNCLASS)

                     

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:12:15 +1200
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Threats by Mad Bikers

On 19 Mar 00, at 20:30, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:

> > (Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That
> > Wouldn't Die.)
> 
> Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the
> flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with
>      (a) elephant-mounted Particle Accelerators
>      (b) the military version of the Jet Bike (I'm thinking of the racing
> version with a 50kg long-rod penetrator
>      (c) a new, upgraded Sound System
>      (d) a Ground Car.
> 
> Note that none of these exist. Yet.

Note that this is more likely to fuel the fire than put it out, but 
good try :)



- --
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:01:32 +1100
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab

Hello?  Hello?  Am I on?  <TAP><TAP><BLOW> Testing?

I staked Aster (1739) last Thursday.

- -AB

- ------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:01:57
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab

At 01:02 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:

>Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it been taken? What
>worlds are claimed so far?

Heya/Regina    Doug Berry
Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell
Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.

Volker Greimann has stated that he is going to do a world with an ancient
site, but hasn't picked one yet.

Somebody said that they wanted to do Capital/Core, but I've lost that
message.

If you want to do Glisten, fine with us.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:13:55 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab

At 12:21 19.03.00, you wrote:
>I'll take L'oeil d'Dieu.
>(3010 B98A510-B N 502 G1V M9V)
>
>Could anyone with 'The Traveller Adventure' please send me a summary of
>the description posted there.
>
>In BtC, the world is a big seafood farm owned by Sharurshid LIC.

TAC: ... is a water world under the aegis of Sharushid, a megacorporation 
specializing in  rare trade goods. S. obtains a variety of exotic seafoods 
and other products from this world. There has been much pressure to have 
the world opened up for settlement, but Sharushid, fearing damage to the 
local ecosystem, has resisted.

I think thats all there is...hope this helps!
- ---
Volker A. Greimann
greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:56:39 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: RE: Trav Freeforms

> From: "Frank G. Pitt" 
> I'll help anyway I can, and depending on when and where you organize it,
I
> may be able to get over ther (I travel about once every two months to
Aussie
> on business, usualy to Melbourne or Sydney)
> 
> Frankie

If it were to get off the ground, we would certainly welcome all the
experience and ideas we could get.  

CanCon generally is in late January, and is in Canberra (hence the name, of
course).

It's still very "if, but, and maybe" at this stage, though I am getting
visions of Famille Spofulam's latest toys in the hands of expendable
munchkins...  The term "Maltese Carnivarous Tree-Thingie" has popped into
my head as well.  But don't worry - I'll get better.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:41:58 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab

> From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de>
> Subject: > 
> At 02:02 19.03.00, you wrote:
> >I'll grab one in a few days, once my current deadline nonsense is
resolved.
> Good luck!

Thanks.
 
> >I'll probably grab a world in Aramis subsector
> If you do, be sure to check out The Traveller Adventure, which has some
of 
> those worlds detailed more or less already.

Yep.  Some of my ideas are based on stuff in there.  In particular, I have
an outfit called the Knutoel Uekuez, who are the grown up kids of the Vargr
exiles on Jesedipere.  Whichever world I pick will have them around in some
form.

My other options are Phlume/Vilis or Extolay/Lanth.  They're nicely placed
on the Spinward Main between Regina and Arden, and are obvious locations
for wretched hives of scum and villainy, or even wretched Hivers, scum and
Vilani.  

If someone else wants to grab any of these, they should, of course, feel
free to do so.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:14:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: How to lay out X-boat routes?

From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>


> Does anyone have a reference for the rules/suggestions for laying
> out x-boat routes? Preferably on line.  I'm trying to build a non-canon
> Imperial sector, and lastly need to add the x-boat routes.

I don't remember seeing rules for such a task. My own take is that Xboat
routes are used by the Imperium to develop certain worlds and keep other
worlds in line. In general, it is a good thing to be on an Xboat route, as
you are part of a larger communications network. You don't need to worry
about the details of how to get messages offworld. Businesses would be more
likely to set up shop on a world which is on an Xboat route.

It is a bad thing if the IISS moves a route which previously stopped at your
world. You have to rely on third parties which may or may not be as good or
cheap as the Xboats.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:19:00 -0500
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.

>
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:29:18
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike.
>
>At 10:30 AM 3/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>	As always... we are proud to say that every recordable failure of
>>one of our products can be traced back to some form of operator error.
>
>Like hitting the "engine start" button?


	Or mistakenly assuming that one has the number of extra Y
chromosomes required to operate the vehicle, fatal underestimation of one's
piloting skills and ability to handle high G's, that sort of thing... :)

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:55:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport

Never got to find out...my wife chased 'em away for some reason ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Glenn Goffin wrote:

> >From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
> >BTW, Glenn, thanks for the mention of the Red Tail Ale
> >yesterday...picked up a six of Black Hawk Stout on the way home
> 
> >last night. Quite nice, indeed! Yum! ;-) 
> 
> Glad you liked it.  How were Prithapon and Olga?
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:17:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Disappearance at Aramat?

On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Volker Greimann wrote:

> >
> >Guinness is evil.
> >
> >I will rephrase that:  many, many pints of Guinness is evil.
> 
> Why? (he asked, 3 being the highers number of pints of Guiness he ever had)
> 

Because the typical counting sequence for pints of Guiness goes 1, 2, 3,
4, many. (The actual number varies on a persons's tolerance, mass and
drinking companions. One birthday of mine, every time I turned my head, my
glass was refgilled. After a relatively short time, I no longer considered
this unusual, merely that I had stumbled onto a really marvelous bar, with
infinite glasses of Dos Equis. The count that nigth went 1, many, many
many ;-)

To actually get the 'many many' your increasingly clouded brain must
process a number greater than the nebulous concept 'many'.

Individual Guinesses are perfectly fine, truly. But when you get that much
Guiness concentrated in one place, the power is usually not handled well.
(Why _ELSE_ do you think Obi-Wan tells Luke to beware the seductive _Dark_
side of the Force!;-)

'Many, many' usually coincides with another evil, yet illusory state of
being: 'Six feet tall and bulletproof' ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2127
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2128</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/19/00 12:13:21 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 19 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2128<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Lost Supplements?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2126<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Very odd question...<BR>
New stuff from FS?<BR>
Re: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
Legendary Potables (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
No Subject<BR>
RE: Dave hypen rides again<BR>
Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
The TML 2000 Landgrab - Staking Patinir / Aramis<BR>
X-Boat Routes (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2126)<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
Re: Roswell<BR>
Re: How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
Re: Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:23:33 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
I pity the poor PC's who get _that_ shipment contract!<BR>
<BR>
Plain brown shipping crates (I suspect _everything_ FS ships goes in plain<BR>
brown wrappers ;-) marked in stencil: FS-DFG HANDLE WITH CARE THIS SIDE<BR>
UP.<BR>
<BR>
And of course, their ship is loaded by a stevodore who had one too many<BR>
Scout Brews last night...;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> > Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
> > > 1.7 kN thrust Hypergolic Liquid Rocket ; 0.013t, KCr 23. Consumes 2.074<BR>
> m3<BR>
> > > fuel per hour<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > 100 kg of hypergolic fuel (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
> > > Favorite Gloop") will therefore last 172 seconds, and cost Cr 40.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Please note that "hypergolic" means that the two propellants ignite<BR>
> > ("explode" might be a better term) *on contact* with each other. This<BR>
> > calls for *extreme* precautions when fueling the bike, and when<BR>
> > servicing it.<BR>
> <BR>
> "All recordable instances of product failure can be traced back to some form<BR>
> of operator error"<BR>
> <BR>
> And I can see why two propellants that explode on contact are known as<BR>
> "Ditzie's Favorite Gloop".<BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> > It also means that in the event of a crash that ruptures fuel tanks or<BR>
> > fuel lines, the pilot survivability closely approximates zero.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> See quote above.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Furthermore, both propellants are highly toxic, possible mutagens, and<BR>
> > one (N2O4) highly corrosive, both as a liquid and as fumes.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > How toxic? N2O4 is listed in many references as a "war gas" (ie<BR>
> > something intended for use in gas warfare!). Hydrazine is merely<BR>
> > "extreme precautions".<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> To quote from the brochure "Prospective owners are advised to check with<BR>
> local<BR>
> authorities regarding environmental issues and flight control requirements".<BR>
> <BR>
> On further review, this baby is probably illegal on the majority of Imperial<BR>
> worlds (anything with a breathable atmosphere and law level above 2 is<BR>
> probably a gimme for having it impounded on sight).<BR>
> <BR>
> > Just out of curiousity, do the rules used to design this monster have<BR>
> > figure for hydrogen peroxide, used as a monopropellant?<BR>
> <BR>
> Lesse ... we may have to play with the fuels and burner. There is the<BR>
> possibility that due to the lower mass of propellant that Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
> and Liquid Oxygen may be the way to go.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nahhh. Not until there is some competition in the TL6 Jet Bike market. Lets<BR>
> face it, LOx and LHyd are all over the place, but FS can make more money<BR>
> selling refill packs of Ditzie's Favorite Gloop.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:55:05 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
<BR>
In one of her books in the Hainish cycle, there was a human<BR>
offshoot that was fully hermaphroditic. The story centered around<BR>
a "normal" human interacting with one or more people from this<BR>
offshoot.  Does anyone remember what story I'm thinking of?  I<BR>
need a pointer...<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:50:52 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/18/00 1:09:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
>  <BR>
>  From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>  > Sorry Eris, you're not a heretic after all.  Thanks<BR>
>  > to Mr. Farrell's modest little post, it just hit me<BR>
>  > with full force:<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > Traveller Heresy is Canonical.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Yep, which is why I said, a few months back, that I was a heretic by way of<BR>
>  Classic Traveller fundamentalism. If you go back to the source, the<BR>
>  Traveller universe looks very different.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  These days I'm just a garden variety heretic.<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sorry you're not. If the JTAS material was actually canon you might be, but <BR>
all material (unless otherwise stated) are variants (read the editorial)      <BR>
  :)<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:54:29 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Lost Supplements?<BR>
<BR>
Is Paul Sanders still taking orders for the Keith Brothers Lost Supplements? <BR>
Does anyone have this e-mail?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:26:36 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2126<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:18:27 -0500<BR>
> From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
> Subject: re: How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
> <BR>
> Thomas Jones-Low wrote:<BR>
> >Does anyone have a reference for the rules/suggestions for laying out<BR>
> >x-boat routes? Preferably on line.<BR>
> >I'm trying to build a non-canon Imperial sector, and lastly need to add<BR>
> >the x-boat routes.<BR>
> <BR>
> First off: X-Boat routes in the Spinward Marches are odd, to say the<BR>
> least. They don't always connect major worlds, they don't always<BR>
> take the most direct routes, and they are often inefficient.<BR>
> <BR>
> The best explanation I've come up with for this: X-Boat routes are<BR>
> like the Railroad in the American Old West. If an X-Boat route comes<BR>
> through a system, so will (eventually) long-distance liners and freighters,<BR>
> secondary industries, additional colonization, etc.  Becoming a stop<BR>
> on an X-Boat link can make the difference between a world becoming<BR>
> an economic hub - someday, if not the day the link is initiated - and<BR>
> the world being relegated to backwater status.<BR>
> <BR>
[Snip]<BR>
> <BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Thanks Walt. Exactly what I was looking for. <BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:58:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 03:03 PM 3/18/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>One thing that might help is to know what systems are already heavily<BR>
>documented in Traveller products.  Such as Bowman and Tarsus in<BR>
>District 268, each with a box full of canon, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Well, going from memeory...<BR>
<BR>
Darrian/Darrian is given a pretty good work over in AM8.<BR>
<BR>
Mithril/Sword Worlds is explored in Double Adventure 2.<BR>
<BR>
Tarsus/D-268 has it's own boxed set.<BR>
<BR>
Bowman/D-268 ditto.<BR>
<BR>
Pavabid/D-268 is the setting for Divine Intervention, half of DA6.<BR>
<BR>
Shinothy Belt/Regina is partially detail in Adventure 1.<BR>
<BR>
Dinom/Lanth is used in DA2, with world map.<BR>
<BR>
Victoria/Lanth appears in JTAS #2.<BR>
<BR>
Craw/Glisten was extesnively detailed in the two-part world-building<BR>
article in JTAS #10-11.<BR>
<BR>
Several worlds in Aramis subsector were fleshed out in The Traveller<BR>
Adventure.<BR>
<BR>
Vanejin/Rhylanor is the setting for Adventure 2.<BR>
<BR>
Fulacin/Rhylanor is the setting for Adventure 3.<BR>
<BR>
There are others, but my memory fades in my old age.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:01:42<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 01:57 PM 3/20/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I don't suppose your website could have a page enumerating<BR>
>the kind of things you'd like to see for the world?<BR>
<BR>
Within the next few days, I'm going to try and have a standard text form up<BR>
at Sylea Downport for people to use.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:27:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
Working on my Imperial Army uniform for BayCon, I came across the perfect<BR>
unit patch. It's a gold unicorn, rearing up on a blue background. The patch<BR>
is supposed to be for the 6th Armored Cavalry Regiment.<BR>
<BR>
I've searched around the web, but I can't find any reference to this unit.<BR>
I find a 6th Cavalry in Korea, but their unit patches don't match what I have.<BR>
<BR>
So my question is: does anybody know anything about a US Army unit<BR>
designated the 6th ACR? I need to know if using this insignia on my uniform<BR>
is likely to cause a negative reaction from possible veterans of the unit.<BR>
If it hasn't existed in 30+ years, I'll feel a little better about using<BR>
the patch.<BR>
<BR>
I usually prefer to use insignia from armies that have ceased to exist,<BR>
like the Spanish Foreign Legion, but couldn't find any.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:35:41 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:30:12 +1100, "Katharine Whitchurch"<BR>
<katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the<BR>
>flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with<BR>
>     (a) elephant-mounted Particle Accelerators<BR>
>     (b) the military version of the Jet Bike (I'm thinking of the racing<BR>
>version with a 50kg long-rod penetrator<BR>
>     (c) a new, upgraded Sound System<BR>
>     (d) a Ground Car.<BR>
><BR>
>Note that none of these exist. Yet.<BR>
><BR>
>Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
I don't think you have the guts to release this stuff. I DARE you to<BR>
release it! Nyah nyah! Ian's afraid to sell elephant-mounted Particle<BR>
Accelerators!<BR>
<BR>
Hey, honey? Have you seen my medication? I think I did something<BR>
stupid.<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get <BR>
 used to the idea."                  - Robert A. Heinlein<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:40:19 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/19/00 10:53:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> In one of her books in the Hainish cycle, there was a human<BR>
>  offshoot that was fully hermaphroditic. The story centered around<BR>
>  a "normal" human interacting with one or more people from this<BR>
>  offshoot.  Does anyone remember what story I'm thinking of?  I<BR>
>  need a pointer...<BR>
<BR>
_The Left Hand of Darkness_.  Rather depressing novel, but a good<BR>
read nonetheless.  Just finished it myself, in fact.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:40:41 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Legendary Potables (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for<BR>
> very long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary potables"<BR>
> for their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?<BR>
<BR>
Okay, IMTU, one of the player characters failed a survival roll in <BR>
chargen. My house rule was to replace chargen death with injury, and<BR>
resolve the injury on the tables in Central Casting: Heroes For<BR>
Tomorrow. Our hero got wounded in the throat and all but lost his <BR>
vocal cords; he was unable to speak in anything but a whisper. <BR>
<BR>
So the characters soon wound up in this bar (big surprise there) and <BR>
the Whisperer In Jumpspace got served a drink called a "Dead-stick <BR>
Re-entry". Shortly after leaving the bar, he realized he could talk<BR>
normally, though his voice faded away again after a while. A quest <BR>
for the recipe for a Dead-stick Re-entry ensued; as it happened, the <BR>
one he was served was made with one wrong ingredient, and only that<BR>
particular combination of stuff would help his vocal cords. The<BR>
Quest was maintained as a subplot/diversion for some time thereafter....<BR>
<BR>
- -RUssell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:45:15 EST<BR>
From: LB2NOLA@aol.com<BR>
Subject: No Subject<BR>
<BR>
Please unsubscribe.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:07:48 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Dave hypen rides again<BR>
<BR>
Now if he could just get around to updating the Jump Points page ;)  I love<BR>
that thing, but it's starting to show it's age....<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Karen and<BR>
> Michael Hughes<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 3:21 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Dave hypen rides again<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Hey TML dudes, Hyphen's posted Striker errata and Modified<BR>
> Mayday Missiles rules on his lovely fluffy website.<BR>
><BR>
> Be there or be square.<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>  Michael (formerly knows as SEC: UNCLASS)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:31:10 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
<BR>
If its still available, id like to claim Rhylanor/Rhylanor as my personal <BR>
Domain.<BR>
Ill try to integrate the MT II Computer game with other published facts.<BR>
<BR>
I know its in BTC, which i have.<BR>
Could some kind soul send me the info that is in the TNE Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
<BR>
Also, does anybody know any additional appearances in other publications <BR>
(Challenge, JTAS, TD, adventures, etc)?<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:40:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/18/00 1:30 PM, Jesse LaBranche<BR>
Vanquer@email.msn.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> I mean didn't anyone else ever notice that almost every<BR>
> country in the world has words in their languages that resemble<BR>
> ours?<BR>
<BR>
That's because we Americans consider "Emminent Domain" to include<BR>
linguistics, so we just stea-- uh, *borrow* what words look nifty to us.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:22:06 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
At 08:48 19.03.00 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>On 18 Mar 00, at 5:15, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
><BR>
>I see that being on the TML has a rejuvenating effect - I'm a boy now, <BR>
>and only yersterday I was a man.<BR>
<BR>
Hey! We' ve found a working Anagathic!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:08:26 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 08:09 18.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>After all, we do own the world.  Don't like American English? Well, see how<BR>
>you like the USS Nimitz steaming into y'alls' waters! PAX AMERICANA!<BR>
>Coca-Cola and McDonalds in Tibet! A STARBUCKS ON EVERY CORNER!!<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>I resent your implication that Americans are insensitive<BR>
>to the culture of the unwashed, ignorant heathens that<BR>
>populate the rest of the world. -Shawn Wilson, in a.f.m<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
A smiley would have been helpful to make clear what you mean...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:04:39 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
At 07:54 18.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 05:15 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
><BR>
>That's it. John Hamilton has shown is his last few posts thaty he is a<BR>
>troll, just trying to piss us of for his own amuesment. <BR>
><BR>
>A meesage will be sent to his ISP complaining about this behavoir if it<BR>
>doesn't stop in the next 24 hours. Mr. Hamilton, the ball is in your court.<BR>
>You can play with the grown ups, or you can continue to be an ass.<BR>
<BR>
Ahm, I don't think I can follow your thoughts here. Could you explain?<BR>
<BR>
To clarifiy: I am not defending anyone. I am just curious.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:43:15 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Staking Patinir / Aramis<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
As my buddy Tim and I are already detailing Patinir / Aramis (my site does<BR>
say "Welcome to the Patinir Belt" after all), then I may as well make it<BR>
official since I didn't see anyone else take it yet.  As a lot of the work<BR>
has been non-canonical in nature, we'll probably write two sets of info.<BR>
One adhering to canon as much as possible, the other will be our own TU.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:00:25 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: X-Boat Routes (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2126)<BR>
<BR>
Tho Jones-Low wrote:<BR>
>	Thanks Walt. Exactly what I was looking for. <BR>
<BR>
Any time, Thom - happy you found the ideas useful.<BR>
<BR>
A note for the new voices on the TML - I most assuredly did NOT<BR>
come up with all that I sent Thom on my own. Thom is the happy<BR>
beneficiary of the end product of a long, detailed discussion I had<BR>
the pleasure of partaking in right here on the TML, where we <BR>
discussed, among other things:<BR>
<BR>
Private Courier services, including those owned by Megacorps<BR>
Government couriers and X-Boat routes<BR>
Tech level of X-Boats<BR>
Courier support facilities<BR>
Courier network efficiencies (especially Hub vs Direct)<BR>
The X-Boat system as an ultra-slow "internet"<BR>
"Spam" on the X-Boat system<BR>
Secondary industries created by X-Boat hubs<BR>
Etc., etc., etc...<BR>
<BR>
Out of these discussions, I worked out what made sense for MTU.<BR>
That kind of information exchange is the best part of the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:16:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/18/00 1:41 PM, Jesse LaBranche<BR>
Vanquer@email.msn.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Benyamene'ZeAbe'Akella wrote:<BR>
>> Yeah, Doug has posted some really awesome stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> Whew! that was a sentence in itself, would you be insulted if I<BR>
> referred to you as Ben from now on?<BR>
<BR>
No problem, just don't call me "Benny", unless you're female. I give females<BR>
a lot of leeway in this area. Just as a side note, my roomie signed me up<BR>
for this account, and made a very minor error in my name. It should be<BR>
Ze'Abe, not ZeAbe'. You can also refer to me as Chirping Elf, Akella, BZA,<BR>
or The Nutball (Cap that to differentiate from the other nutball's on this<BR>
list. I have not seen another "Ben" on this list, so my first name<BR>
contracted should be fine.<BR>
<BR>
> I really like Doug's posts when he's not arguing with another<BR>
> member on the list. Then again, some of the points that he did<BR>
> raise in the argument were just amazing.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I agree that he has been somewhat fiesty lately, and should relax.<BR>
OTOH, John has really been a twit. Good ideas, but an awful attitude. I<BR>
could forgive the terrible spelling, grammar, and punctuation, if he wasn't<BR>
so set on defending it. And calling folks "boy", that is no way to make<BR>
friends. (Are you reading this John? You aren't out of chances with me yet,<BR>
get a grip, and we can be chums, keep up the attitude, and I'll have to<BR>
figure out this Kill-file bit I hear of.)<BR>
<BR>
>> I hadn't thought of that, although my first thought was that I doubt the<BR>
>> magazine would survive millennia. ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> You're thinking too human again. With Ancient technology, we put<BR>
> our most valuable assets in a vault that protected them from age.<BR>
> Those were an 8-track tape, a coke, a magazine, and a car.<BR>
> Now, when the site was found and the vault opened everything was<BR>
> perfectly preserved, however our intrepid adventurers were quite<BR>
> thirsty at the time, so the full coke was inventoried/reported as an<BR>
> empty can and we know where the contents thereof ended up.<BR>
> Thus, we have a perfectly functioning magazine ;-) I just wonder<BR>
> how good looking a centerfold would really appear 300,000 years<BR>
> from now.<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking human because we were obviously dealing with human artifacts.<BR>
I agree a time capsule would keep these items pristine, but that would make<BR>
the whole bit into a Major Adv. Module. Of course your post is full of<BR>
humour, so perhaps it is entirely humour based. And that can *was* empty, I<BR>
swear! <burp><BR>
<BR>
>> Very good point, something to think about for the scout campaign I am<BR>
>> working on.<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay, I'll bite, what are you working on with this campaign?<BR>
<BR>
Well, in between my usual ranch chores and landscaping, I've been working on<BR>
a campaign for our local gamers. I still am undecided on where in the Trav<BR>
universe it will start, but I plan on it moving around a lot. As far as<BR>
when, it will either be Meliux Zero, in which case I *know* where it starts.<BR>
or post FFW, in which case it will likely start out in the Spinward Marches.<BR>
I am Travellerizing bits from previous Sci If games I have run (never ran<BR>
Trav, played a Merchant Campaign in the Spinward Marches under Hypercleats)<BR>
such as Star Wars, Renegade Legionaire, home-brew Star Trek, etc. Mostly the<BR>
bits that never got into play, and some of the aliens regardless if they had<BR>
been used. I only get to work on it a little every once in a while, but hope<BR>
to have it running by summer. I may use PBEM or something, as out here in<BR>
the boondocks (I have a 3 mile driveway, nearest gamer is over twenty miles<BR>
away) a FTF game can be hard to arrange.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:40:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
Actually this has been documented before in Challenge #33<BR>
and the gist of the article was that only bad things happen and the gm is<BR>
suggested not to make anything good come of it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:55:33 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
<BR>
I did a detailed workup of Rhylanor in the sidebars of _First In_.  I don't<BR>
know if I would consider that canonical, though -- it was more an example<BR>
of how to develop a world using the _First In_ rules than anything else.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:57:37 -0500<BR>
From: Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Roswell<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Funny bit of election news: George W Bush's website uses a local Austin <BR>
> TX-based, award-winning ISP called IO -- which stands for Illuminati Online, <BR>
> and is partly owned by Steve Jackson. Nobody's made anything of this yet, but <BR>
> I am waiting for the extreme fringe loonie groups to discover this little <BR>
> factoid . . .<BR>
> <BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
Do you think that Drudge would put it on his site?  It sounds strange enough.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Eric & Diane Freitas<BR>
ericfrei@gte.net<BR>
- --------------------<BR>
Erikesirarii Danuuk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:58:50 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to lay out X-boat routes?<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/18/00 9:18 PM, Walt Smith smithw@hartwick.edu<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> No hard and fast rules, sorry...but X-Boat routes can indicate some<BR>
> interesting happenings.<BR>
<BR>
I like these little dissertations on Traveller topics better than hard and<BR>
fast rules. Very cool post. Flagged it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:09:48 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
<BR>
At 20:55 19.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>I did a detailed workup of Rhylanor in the sidebars of _First In_.  I don't<BR>
>know if I would consider that canonical, though -- it was more an example<BR>
>of how to develop a world using the _First In_ rules than anything else<BR>
<BR>
Cool, ill check that out as well. Ill see how that info can be integrated <BR>
into what i had in mind...<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2128<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 19 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2129<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
TML Landgrab - Existing Article Request<BR>
Re: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
Heaven & Earth<BR>
The TML 2000 Landgrab - Staking Wypoc<BR>
RE: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Potables<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Best Rules System<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Legendary Potables (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
re:  Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Real World: Terabyte HD's in your PC<BR>
Vs: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: No Subject<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:50:59 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab - Existing Article Request<BR>
<BR>
Hi,<BR>
<BR>
I've been researching Ylaven a bit more for the TML Landgrab.  I've found a<BR>
reference to it in a time line I downloaded.  I can't remember the URL, but a<BR>
search on AltaVista for 'ylaven' will turn it up.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, the relevant part in the timeline is:<BR>
<BR>
429       Notorious pirate Mous Alhabah disappears with his treasure after<BR>
          the Imperial Navy destroys his Ylaven (1916 Spinward Marches)<BR>
          base. GDW, Challenge #44, p. 33.<BR>
<BR>
And wouldn't you credit it, issue 44 was one of the few issues I missed.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have that issue and could they send me the relevant details,<BR>
allowing for fair use, 1 page max, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:32:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 11:00 AM, Walt Smith smithw@hartwick.edu<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Out of these discussions, I worked out what made sense for MTU.<BR>
> That kind of information exchange is the best part of the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Amen.<BR>
A note for the increasing population of newbies, from BZA, a semi-newbie.<BR>
<BR>
This is the Traveller Mailing List, not the Defenders of Canon. You will get<BR>
a lot of Canon data from those who have the resources. This is a great<BR>
aspect of the TML. And there are also members of Travellers "Inner Circle",<BR>
from artists to game designers to creative writers. Another premium bonus.<BR>
But the best thing about the TML is the sheer variety of people from<BR>
different careers, or with different hobbies, that have inside info on<BR>
issues like medicine, (rw) military, science, etc.<BR>
<BR>
The fact that the "Inner Circle" is represented here has another effect. Our<BR>
interests, at least those we post, have a better chance of being represented<BR>
in future publications. And the "Inner Circle" has this as a resource to<BR>
help them remain consistent with what they have already said. I can only<BR>
imagine how useful Loren, Jeff, Jesse, etc. find this list.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:42:44 -0000<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Heaven & Earth<BR>
<BR>
A new Beta of Heaven & Earth has been made available to members of the<BR>
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/WBDMailingList .<BR>
<BR>
The program is now nearing completion and is in the final stages of bug<BR>
hunting.<BR>
<BR>
I'm hopefully looking at a release in early April.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:49:07 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Staking Wypoc<BR>
<BR>
I wish to grab Wypoc/Lanth/Spinward Marches... I've got some nifty Details...<BR>
<BR>
I'll continue my detailing and make it available.<BR>
<BR>
Beware the Dragons!<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:40:38 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
<BR>
The short answer would be "Very!" as far as my work is concerned.  The TML<BR>
continues to be a hugely supportive community for anything I have ever<BR>
needed.<BR>
<BR>
"Inner Circle"?  Cool.  Do we get cloaks & stuff like the B5 Grey Council?<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks again for everyone's help!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Benyamene'<BR>
> ZeAbe' Akella<BR>
> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 12:33 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 11:00 AM, Walt Smith smithw@hartwick.edu<BR>
> issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
> > Out of these discussions, I worked out what made sense for MTU.<BR>
> > That kind of information exchange is the best part of the TML.<BR>
><BR>
> Amen.<BR>
> A note for the increasing population of newbies, from BZA, a semi-newbie.<BR>
><BR>
> This is the Traveller Mailing List, not the Defenders of Canon.<BR>
> You will get<BR>
> a lot of Canon data from those who have the resources. This is a great<BR>
> aspect of the TML. And there are also members of Travellers<BR>
> "Inner Circle",<BR>
> from artists to game designers to creative writers. Another premium bonus.<BR>
> But the best thing about the TML is the sheer variety of people from<BR>
> different careers, or with different hobbies, that have inside info on<BR>
> issues like medicine, (rw) military, science, etc.<BR>
><BR>
> The fact that the "Inner Circle" is represented here has another<BR>
> effect. Our<BR>
> interests, at least those we post, have a better chance of being<BR>
> represented<BR>
> in future publications. And the "Inner Circle" has this as a resource to<BR>
> help them remain consistent with what they have already said. I can only<BR>
> imagine how useful Loren, Jeff, Jesse, etc. find this list.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:08:56 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
<< Seriously, IMO, this is an "guaranteed" death (at worst) or<BR>
 permanent insanity (at best) scenario.<BR>
 <BR>
 No EVA gear in Traveller can maintain a jump field and the<BR>
 effects of being directly exposed to Jumpspace have been<BR>
 documented back to CT. In fact, the survival of one person<BR>
 after direct exposure to Jumpspace was big news and made<BR>
 the TAS news service across the Imperium. It's that rare.  >><BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure, but I may have started this "jumpspace is deadly" thing about 3 <BR>
AM at a convention many many years ago. I was at a convention (don't remember <BR>
which one, Origins or Gen-Con, probably, as it was big and we had full <BR>
schedules of seminars, demos and schmoozing) and had just gotten to sleep <BR>
after a long day on my feet at the booth, followed by several seminars and a <BR>
long discussion with movers and shakers in the industry -- I am very tired, <BR>
and very groggy. In the hotel room, the phone rings -- I answer -- its a fan, <BR>
evidently in the midst of an all-night gaming session (I could hear tell-tale <BR>
sounds of dice rolling and munchie-eating in the background0, with a <BR>
question: "So, uh, like, what happens if you open the airlock while you're in <BR>
jumpspace -- is there like, uh, a whole 'nother universe out there, or what? <BR>
What's it look like? Are there other planets and monsters and stuff?"<BR>
<BR>
I think my answer was something like "everyone dies a horrible death -- go <BR>
away and lemme sleep!" punctuated with a few obscenities . . . <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, if we had decided there _was_ another universe with planets and stuff <BR>
there, we'd just have to describe and map it <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
and that way lies madness.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:08:57 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
<< It also means that in the event of a crash that ruptures fuel tanks or<BR>
 fuel lines, the pilot survivability closely approximates zero.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
It would appear at least one of the FS forebears was working for the <BR>
Luftwaffe in WWII -- this sound suspiciously like the Me-163<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:08:31 -0600<BR>
From: Michael Maley <mmaley@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
I don't know, my wife's pirates would keep the bikes.  They fell in love<BR>
with the sub-orbital pogo stick-it's now standard issue on Bette Noire's<BR>
vessels.<BR>
<BR>
darkhstarr<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I pity the poor PC's who get _that_ shipment contract!<BR>
> <BR>
> Plain brown shipping crates (I suspect _everything_ FS ships goes in plain<BR>
> brown wrappers ;-) marked in stencil: FS-DFG HANDLE WITH CARE THIS SIDE<BR>
> UP.<BR>
> <BR>
> And of course, their ship is loaded by a stevodore who had one too many<BR>
> Scout Brews last night...;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
> <BR>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
> <BR>
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> > > Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
> > > > 1.7 kN thrust Hypergolic Liquid Rocket ; 0.013t, KCr 23. Consumes 2.074<BR>
> > m3<BR>
> > > > fuel per hour<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > 100 kg of hypergolic fuel (hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide = "Ditzie's<BR>
> > > > Favorite Gloop") will therefore last 172 seconds, and cost Cr 40.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Please note that "hypergolic" means that the two propellants ignite<BR>
> > > ("explode" might be a better term) *on contact* with each other. This<BR>
> > > calls for *extreme* precautions when fueling the bike, and when<BR>
> > > servicing it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "All recordable instances of product failure can be traced back to some form<BR>
> > of operator error"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And I can see why two propellants that explode on contact are known as<BR>
> > "Ditzie's Favorite Gloop".<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > It also means that in the event of a crash that ruptures fuel tanks or<BR>
> > > fuel lines, the pilot survivability closely approximates zero.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > See quote above.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Furthermore, both propellants are highly toxic, possible mutagens, and<BR>
> > > one (N2O4) highly corrosive, both as a liquid and as fumes.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > How toxic? N2O4 is listed in many references as a "war gas" (ie<BR>
> > > something intended for use in gas warfare!). Hydrazine is merely<BR>
> > > "extreme precautions".<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > To quote from the brochure "Prospective owners are advised to check with<BR>
> > local<BR>
> > authorities regarding environmental issues and flight control requirements".<BR>
> ><BR>
> > On further review, this baby is probably illegal on the majority of Imperial<BR>
> > worlds (anything with a breathable atmosphere and law level above 2 is<BR>
> > probably a gimme for having it impounded on sight).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Just out of curiousity, do the rules used to design this monster have<BR>
> > > figure for hydrogen peroxide, used as a monopropellant?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Lesse ... we may have to play with the fuels and burner. There is the<BR>
> > possibility that due to the lower mass of propellant that Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
> > and Liquid Oxygen may be the way to go.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nahhh. Not until there is some competition in the TL6 Jet Bike market. Lets<BR>
> > face it, LOx and LHyd are all over the place, but FS can make more money<BR>
> > selling refill packs of Ditzie's Favorite Gloop.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:13:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>As for this being a philosophy school - that would be <BR>
>rec.games.frp.advocacy - this is the debating school, or hadn't<BR>
<BR>
>you noticed?<BR>
<BR>
You stupid ungrammatical pathetic -- oh, you wanted an argument?<BR>
 This is Abuse.  Argument is two doors down.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:16:39 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
>>They stated that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for <BR>
>>very long distances for some strange reason.<BR>
><BR>
>If the bullets hit the wall at a shallow angle they may <BR>
>ricochet at an even shallower angle.<BR>
<BR>
Two friends who are physicists would always remind when playing<BR>
pool that the angle of refraction is equal to the angle of<BR>
incidence.  This seemed to help their bank shots immensely.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:36:14 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:16:39 -0800 (PST), Glenn Goffin<BR>
<gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
>>>They stated that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for <BR>
>>>very long distances for some strange reason.<BR>
>><BR>
>>If the bullets hit the wall at a shallow angle they may <BR>
>>ricochet at an even shallower angle.<BR>
><BR>
>Two friends who are physicists would always remind when playing<BR>
>pool that the angle of refraction is equal to the angle of<BR>
>incidence.  This seemed to help their bank shots immensely.<BR>
><BR>
I'm not sure that applies here. Modern rifle bullets are not spherical<BR>
but have flatter sides. This makes me think the angle of refraction<BR>
would be less in most cases.<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
 lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:48:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Potables<BR>
<BR>
> Canon (GDW): Skymellon Wine, Vilan Wines<BR>
> Semi-Canon (DGP): Scout Brew (from Traveller's Digest)<BR>
> IMTU: Vargr Coffee (Actually a tea much like hot chocolate in taste, but<BR>
> without the stuff that makes canids ill). Jack Daniels (A status issue in<BR>
> the marches). Aslan Spice Teas, whihc are extremely varied in taste,<BR>
color,<BR>
> and non-aslan toxicities. Stregg (stolen liberally from the Sten Series),<BR>
a<BR>
> fermented blood-milk mixture using the blood and milk from a<BR>
> xeno-herbivore/xeno-mammal; it has strong narcotic effects on H. Sapiens<BR>
> (Including H.S. Terrestrius, H.S. Vilani, and H.S. Zhdantl).<BR>
> William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
> aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti<BR>
sirohbrankilin<BR>
<BR>
Well met and thanks for the ideas William. Anything for the Zho?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:11:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>> I may have to send a paralegal there for a sacrifice.<BR>
>Isn't that why you keep interns around?<BR>
<BR>
You obviously understand the practice of law.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:01:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best Rules System<BR>
<BR>
Greets all,<BR>
<BR>
> >    I agree with you on MT's Chargen. I liked it quite a bit<BR>
> >myself, although I found it a bit difficult to add in any new<BR>
> >professions. That isn't a let-down though :-)<BR>
<BR>
> I found it easy enough to add them. It's not significantly harder than for<BR>
> CT. I added Civil Aviation and two others (I can't recall them right now;<BR>
> have to check my files)<BR>
<BR>
    Did you do this on the "basic" or "extended" generation? Adding them<BR>
in with basic was truly simple, on the extended I had a LOT of trouble<BR>
coming up with my own charts though.<BR>
    I guess the only real complaint is that I wish they had gone into some<BR>
discussion on how to create extended charts rather than needing to go<BR>
through them all to make comparisons and "guess" at it.<BR>
    Like I said above though, it wasn't really bad enough to influence me<BR>
either way as far as whether to purchase it or not.<BR>
<BR>
> >    What specifically did you find "out of hand" in<BR>
> >MT's ship construction? I know quite a bit of those<BR>
> >problems myself since this is the one area that I really<BR>
> >dug into when I had my MT set, but I'd like to hear<BR>
> >other opinions.<BR>
<BR>
> Personally, I Like MT's design system, but I've never agreed with basing<BR>
CP<BR>
> costs off of cost; control points should be formulaic by size and<BR>
> complexity of object. While cost should also correlate to these two, I<BR>
> disagree with the scaling ( although I don't have a "fix" for it; I find<BR>
no<BR>
> reason to do one).<BR>
<BR>
    One thing that really bugged me about the system was that they left<BR>
out "crew operations" areas. Things like a bridge, sick bay, engineering,<BR>
etc. There was an easy fix to it, just requiring space for such things in<BR>
the<BR>
overall design, but it would have been really cool if they had put in some<BR>
requirements for such things.<BR>
    Something more in line with what you mentioned, I often found that<BR>
getting enough panels to handle the CP costs made it so that not much<BR>
in the way of crew was required.<BR>
    Also, was there ever an "erata" sheet posted for the CP figures, IIRC<BR>
they used a fair number of abbreviations that they did not define within<BR>
the actual text for computing CPs.<BR>
<BR>
> >    That was my own viewpoint, although some of the<BR>
> >more recent posts on the subject are making me think<BR>
> >that I was really missing something on that end.<BR>
<BR>
> It never says you can, but it provides the damage point thresholds for<BR>
> doing so in the "Rating" section. In the "Large Scale Combat Rules" from<BR>
> _Referee's Companion_, it points out ships are always individual units.<BR>
> There are guidelines for anti-vehicle fire and starship weapons in the PM<BR>
> and RM.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm... You're making me wish I still had it so I could compare what you're<BR>
saying to the text as opposed to comparing with my vague memory- oh<BR>
well :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:15:03 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
someone else wrote:<BR>
>>Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it <BR>
>>been taken? What worlds are claimed so far?<BR>
<BR>
Doug replied:<BR>
>Heya/Regina    Doug Berry<BR>
>Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell.<BR>
>Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.<BR>
<BR>
Doug, Luther Martin claimed Esalin/Jewell shortly after I<BR>
claimed Mongo.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:05:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legendary Potables (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
<BR>
> Okay, IMTU, one of the player characters failed a survival roll in<BR>
> chargen. My house rule was to replace chargen death with injury, and<BR>
> resolve the injury on the tables in Central Casting: Heroes For<BR>
> Tomorrow. Our hero got wounded in the throat and all but lost his<BR>
> vocal cords; he was unable to speak in anything but a whisper.<BR>
<BR>
> So the characters soon wound up in this bar (big surprise there) and<BR>
> the Whisperer In Jumpspace got served a drink called a "Dead-stick<BR>
> Re-entry". Shortly after leaving the bar, he realized he could talk<BR>
> normally, though his voice faded away again after a while. A quest<BR>
> for the recipe for a Dead-stick Re-entry ensued; as it happened, the<BR>
> one he was served was made with one wrong ingredient, and only that<BR>
> particular combination of stuff would help his vocal cords. The<BR>
> Quest was maintained as a subplot/diversion for some time thereafter....<BR>
> -RUssell B<BR>
<BR>
    Hey Russ, this sounds interesting. Did you do up anything on what<BR>
goes into the DSR and what it tastes like, etc? This made me think<BR>
about when I used to live in Tennessee.<BR>
    In Memphis there was a bar named Sully's or Sullivan's tavern, can't<BR>
remember which, but they served a drink known as a "paint can" and<BR>
it was a half gallon jug of mixed alcohol.<BR>
    There was some sort of "house prize" if you finished the can and it<BR>
was a sort of "initiation" thing with Naval personnel in the area.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:07:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
I wrote:<BR>
> > I mean didn't anyone else ever notice that almost every<BR>
> > country in the world has words in their languages that resemble<BR>
> > ours?<BR>
<BR>
To which Ben replied:<BR>
> That's because we Americans consider "Emminent Domain" to include<BR>
> linguistics, so we just stea-- uh, *borrow* what words look nifty to us.<BR>
<BR>
    Reading that out of context the way I wrote it sure does look<BR>
arrogant. I hope everyone took it in the light of the joking manner<BR>
that I meant it to be :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:23:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
>From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=<BR>
><Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
<BR>
I had written:<BR>
>> The worlds where these activities occur are interdicted <BR>
>>because the Droyne have convinced the Imperial authorities <BR>
>>that they need solitude to achieve this purpose.  > <BR>
<BR>
You replied:<BR>
>Does this mean that all the Closers in YTU are Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
"Hey! Get away from the coffeepot.  Coffee is for closers.  Are<BR>
you a closer?  Remember your ABC's: Always Be Closing.  A<BR>
Always.  B Be.  C Closing.  Always Be Closing.  Are you a<BR>
closer?"  (Points for the first to recognize the movie from<BR>
which this is a slightly mangled quotation.)<BR>
<BR>
No, there are plenty of closers in my Traveller universe of all<BR>
species (but I suspect that you are talking about completely<BR>
different things).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:22:03 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Real World: Terabyte HD's in your PC<BR>
<BR>
I found this today and thought ya'll might be interested.<BR>
<BR>
 IBM Announces Breakthrough in Data Storage<BR>
  March 17, 2000 8:08 pm EST <BR>
  <BR>
 NEW YORK (Reuters) - IBM Corp.  (IBM.N) said on Friday it had made<BR>
 a breakthrough that may one day allow computer hard disks and other<BR>
 data-storage systems to store more than 100 times more data than<BR>
 today's products.<BR>
 <BR>
 IBM (IBM.N) researchers said they discovered chemical reactions<BR>
 that cause tiny magnetic particles, each comprised of only a few<BR>
 thousand atoms, to automatically arrange themselves.<BR>
 <BR>
 Each particle is separated from its neighbors by the same preset<BR>
 distance, and the reactions permit precise control of the<BR>
 separation distance between them, factors that are important to<BR>
 increasing data density, IBM said.<BR>
 <BR>
 The breakthrough, published in Friday in the Journal Science, was<BR>
 two years in the making, and it is unknown how long it would take<BR>
 to for the research to translate into actual products.<BR>
 <BR>
 "This is basic scientific research," Shouheng Sun, an IBM<BR>
 researcher involved in the project, said in an interview.  "We need<BR>
 to do a lot more research and collaboration before we can make a<BR>
 product."<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:24:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Vs: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=<BR>
><Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
<BR>
>Excellent and inspiring.- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
Thank you, thank you.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:25:31 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: No Subject<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:45:15   LB2NOLA wrote:<BR>
>Please unsubscribe.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Oh... Well.. OK... if you insist, although I don't know what I've done wrong!<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:27:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>Mr. Goffin, you are the man. I was looking for an exciting way <BR>
>to open up my new campaign and a trip to a Vargr wrestling <BR>
>match such as you describe would be just the ticket.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you, thank you, stop before I get embarrassed, I hope you<BR>
have a great campaign.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:18:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, I agree that he has been somewhat fiesty lately, and should relax.<BR>
> OTOH, John has really been a twit. Good ideas, but an awful attitude. I<BR>
> could forgive the terrible spelling, grammar, and punctuation, if he<BR>
wasn't<BR>
> so set on defending it. And calling folks "boy", that is no way to make<BR>
> friends. (Are you reading this John? You aren't out of chances with me<BR>
yet,<BR>
> get a grip, and we can be chums, keep up the attitude, and I'll have to<BR>
> figure out this Kill-file bit I hear of.)<BR>
<BR>
    Well, for the sake of making my opinion clear as opposed to trying to<BR>
add fuel to the fire, I think that Doug should just ignore the guy. On<BR>
John's<BR>
end, I haven't put him in the kill-file yet.<BR>
    John would be history if there weren't responses from others that I am<BR>
interested in hearing. In trying to point out things to him, they make me<BR>
pay attention to stuff that I just take for granted- like the 300,000 years<BR>
since the Ancients were around.<BR>
    That point never really struck home quite as well with me as it just did<BR>
during the recent thread there. I ignore John's posts now, unless I am<BR>
looking at one to see what a poster was responding too.<BR>
    With the purposely poor grammar, poor spelling, lack of netiquette,<BR>
and arrogant attitude it is difficult enough to read his posts, then it is<BR>
usually just a poor attempt at sniping someone and wasn't worth the<BR>
effort, so I've quit bothering.<BR>
<BR>
> >> I hadn't thought of that, although my first thought was that I doubt<BR>
the<BR>
> >> magazine would survive millennia. ;)<BR>
> > You're thinking too human again. With Ancient technology, we put<BR>
> > our most valuable assets in a vault that protected them from age.<BR>
> > Those were an 8-track tape, a coke, a magazine, and a car.<BR>
> > Now, when the site was found and the vault opened everything was<BR>
> > perfectly preserved, however our intrepid adventurers were quite<BR>
> > thirsty at the time, so the full coke was inventoried/reported as an<BR>
> > empty can and we know where the contents thereof ended up.<BR>
> > Thus, we have a perfectly functioning magazine ;-) I just wonder<BR>
> > how good looking a centerfold would really appear 300,000 years<BR>
> > from now.<BR>
> I was thinking human because we were obviously dealing with human<BR>
artifacts.<BR>
> I agree a time capsule would keep these items pristine, but that would<BR>
make<BR>
> the whole bit into a Major Adv. Module. Of course your post is full of<BR>
> humour, so perhaps it is entirely humour based. And that can *was* empty,<BR>
I<BR>
> swear! <burp><BR>
<BR>
    Yeah, I was joking with the above post- especially the "too human" part.<BR>
<BR>
> >> Very good point, something to think about for the scout campaign I am<BR>
> >> working on.<BR>
> > Okay, I'll bite, what are you working on with this campaign?<BR>
> Well, in between my usual ranch chores and landscaping, I've been working<BR>
on<BR>
> a campaign for our local gamers. I still am undecided on where in the Trav<BR>
> universe it will start, but I plan on it moving around a lot. As far as<BR>
> when, it will either be Meliux Zero, in which case I *know* where it<BR>
starts.<BR>
> or post FFW, in which case it will likely start out in the Spinward<BR>
Marches.<BR>
> I am Travellerizing bits from previous Sci If games I have run (never ran<BR>
> Trav, played a Merchant Campaign in the Spinward Marches under<BR>
Hypercleats)<BR>
> such as Star Wars, Renegade Legionaire, home-brew Star Trek, etc. Mostly<BR>
the<BR>
> bits that never got into play, and some of the aliens regardless if they<BR>
had<BR>
> been used. I only get to work on it a little every once in a while, but<BR>
hope<BR>
> to have it running by summer. I may use PBEM or something, as out here in<BR>
> the boondocks (I have a 3 mile driveway, nearest gamer is over twenty<BR>
miles<BR>
> away) a FTF game can be hard to arrange.<BR>
<BR>
    I've thought a lot about running Scout campaigns somewhere around the<BR>
beginning of Terra's development of the jump drive- before "first contact".<BR>
I<BR>
never really took the idea very far though.<BR>
    Should you get a PBEM going on something like the above- feel free to<BR>
let me know, I'm game :-) Just as long as you can handle someone who might<BR>
not have all of those rules available to them currently.<BR>
<BR>
Good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 19 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2130<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Best rules system<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Alien Sport<BR>
Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
Re: X-Boat Routes (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2126)<BR>
Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Greece<BR>
Re: Ancient research<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:16:11 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
At 18:13 -0500 17/3/00,  "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>For T: NE and MT...<BR>
>1. What do you consider the strengths of each over the<BR>
>other?<BR>
<BR>
MT<BR>
- - weakness - errata<BR>
- - strength - simple, basically usable with CT and T4 material with <BR>
very little effort as characters are simialr, task system<BR>
<BR>
I would prefer MT over TNE - I own both but don't feel fair <BR>
commenting on TNE as several of the setting changes annoy me, and the <BR>
combat system makes me shudder...<BR>
<BR>
>2. Have you made "house rules" to make up for the<BR>
>weaknesses of your favorite of the two?<BR>
<BR>
Not really.<BR>
><BR>
>3. Which one uses the least "abstraction/symbology"?<BR>
<BR>
?? Both use codes like UPPs and UWPs IIRC.<BR>
TNE has a slightly more complex (but less errata blown) design system.<BR>
<BR>
>For T5...<BR>
>1. Am I correct in understanding that it has not been<BR>
>released and is still in the design phase? If so, when<BR>
>is it due for release?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
T5 is a development of T4 and was know as T4.1 - it was to be a <BR>
revised version of T4 by Marc. He was distributing copies of the <BR>
re-written sections for playtest if you emailed him. So far, I've <BR>
seen tasks (tweaked from T4 with more MT influence) and character <BR>
generation (massively improved/cleared up).<BR>
<BR>
>2. Is T5 going to be based on one of the previously<BR>
>released rules systems, or is it a completely new<BR>
>system in itself?<BR>
<BR>
Development of T4 if March hasn't abandoned the work he has down.<BR>
<BR>
>3. Is T5 going to be using previously released, or new,<BR>
>histories/timelines?<BR>
<BR>
ISTR that this was the intent with a core rules and several Stand <BR>
Alone Entry Points (different Milieu).<BR>
><BR>
>4. What are some of the intended/expected strengths<BR>
>of T5 over the previously released systems?<BR>
<BR>
Bugfixed T4 - simpler than MT, TNE with the strengths of both and a CT flavour.<BR>
<BR>
 From what I've seen it would be my system of choice. YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:37:56 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:36:50 -0500 (EST), houstonshocky@webtv.net<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Looking at a past issue of World War II magazine, I came across an<BR>
>article of the P-80 Twin Mustang. This is basically the joining of 2<BR>
>P-51d Mustangs (in the style of the P-38 Lightning "Fork Tailed Devil")<BR>
>in the hopes of increasing speed and firepower.<BR>
<BR>
>What I am wondering is; <BR>
>What would happen if two jump capable ships were joined together then<BR>
>launched into jump space using one ship's jump drive, then in the jump,<BR>
>activating the other ship's jump drive ....<BR>
<BR>
>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
<BR>
>Any opinions are welcome ;)<BR>
<BR>
This is dependent on how jump physics works in your universe.<BR>
Generally, you'll find that few referees permit this to work; my<BR>
presumption is that it is an immediate catastrophic misjump,<BR>
destroyed mishap, for _both_ ships.  One other referee I know<BR>
simply makes it impossible to create a jump field within another<BR>
jump field - "The drive has sucked up all the fuel, and the grid<BR>
glowed pretty, but nothing else has happened."<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:23:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marines are Tough<BR>
<BR>
> >>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
> >>>They stated that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for<BR>
> >>>very long distances for some strange reason.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>If the bullets hit the wall at a shallow angle they may<BR>
> >>ricochet at an even shallower angle.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Two friends who are physicists would always remind when playing<BR>
> >pool that the angle of refraction is equal to the angle of<BR>
> >incidence.  This seemed to help their bank shots immensely.<BR>
> ><BR>
> I'm not sure that applies here. Modern rifle bullets are not spherical<BR>
> but have flatter sides. This makes me think the angle of refraction<BR>
> would be less in most cases.<BR>
<BR>
    This is rather amusing really. I would think that the different shapes<BR>
of the two items in question, and different "spins" put on them would<BR>
highly modify their trajectory angles.<BR>
    However, I hadn't considered any of that into my thoughts with the<BR>
original posting. It made sense to me that lining a bullet up to a wall<BR>
that you were against would make it go parallel much longer than if<BR>
you were trying to line it up in the middle of the street.<BR>
    Not to mention that if firing at a guy in the middle of the street, I'd<BR>
probably be standing near a corner (or behind it) and that would<BR>
provide a cross-fire where the bullet would intersect with the<BR>
opposing wall rather quickly.<BR>
<BR>
Anywho, please continue- interesting stuffs :-)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:36:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
>WOOHOO!!! That's what I was after Glenn- you pinged it<BR>
<BR>
Thank you thank you aw shucks guys I was just goofing off when I<BR>
should've been working<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:42:22 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Best rules system<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:16:11   SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> I've <BR>
>seen tasks (tweaked from T4 with more MT influence)<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... I have just started to pay attention to this thread! Could I have more details of the new task system? (Just the basics, so I can tell my players.)<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:44:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
<BR>
>Never got to find out...my wife chased 'em away for some reason<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That can happen.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:35:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
> >WOOHOO!!! That's what I was after Glenn- you pinged it<BR>
<BR>
> Thank you thank you aw shucks guys I was just goofing off when I<BR>
> should've been working<BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Hey Glenn,<BR>
<BR>
    If you couldn't tell by responses- that was an awesome piece<BR>
of work. Please feel free to "goof off" as much as you like- I think<BR>
we can all use some of it :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:49:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
<BR>
>In one of her books in the Hainish cycle, there was a human<BR>
>offshoot that was fully hermaphroditic. The story centered <BR>
>around a "normal" human interacting with one or more people <BR>
>from this offshoot.  Does anyone remember what story I'm <BR>
>thinking of?  Ineed a pointer...<BR>
<BR>
The Left Hand of Darkness.  The world is called Winter, if I<BR>
recall correctly, and it's in the middle of an ice age.  The<BR>
people are normally without sexual characteristics, but they go<BR>
into a condition called kemmer every so often, when they are<BR>
driven to reproduce.  In a mating pair, one will assume male and<BR>
the other female sexual characteristics, and the female will<BR>
become impregnated and bear a child.  Any single individual will<BR>
have experienced both male and female forms in kemmer, and, as I<BR>
recall, the people typically did not develop a preference for a<BR>
particular form.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:48:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Kagehira@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 10:50 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 3/18/00 1:09:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >  > Sorry Eris, you're not a heretic after all.  Thanks<BR>
> >  > to Mr. Farrell's modest little post, it just hit me<BR>
> >  > with full force:<BR>
> >  ><BR>
> >  > Traveller Heresy is Canonical.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  Yep, which is why I said, a few months back, that I was a heretic by<BR>
way of<BR>
> >  Classic Traveller fundamentalism. If you go back to the source, the<BR>
> >  Traveller universe looks very different.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  These days I'm just a garden variety heretic.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Sorry you're not. If the JTAS material was actually canon you might be,<BR>
but<BR>
> all material (unless otherwise stated) are variants (read the editorial)<BR>
>   :)<BR>
><BR>
> Bryan<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:55:53 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 19 March 2000 17:27<BR>
Subject: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Working on my Imperial Army uniform for BayCon, I came across the perfect<BR>
>unit patch. It's a gold unicorn, rearing up on a blue background. The patch<BR>
>is supposed to be for the 6th Armored Cavalry Regiment.<BR>
><BR>
>I've searched around the web, but I can't find any reference to this unit.<BR>
>I find a 6th Cavalry in Korea, but their unit patches don't match what I<BR>
have.<BR>
><BR>
>So my question is: does anybody know anything about a US Army unit<BR>
>designated the 6th ACR? I need to know if using this insignia on my uniform<BR>
>is likely to cause a negative reaction from possible veterans of the unit.<BR>
>If it hasn't existed in 30+ years, I'll feel a little better about using<BR>
>the patch.<BR>
><BR>
>I usually prefer to use insignia from armies that have ceased to exist,<BR>
>like the Spanish Foreign Legion, but couldn't find any.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Doug,<BR>
<BR>
try this URL:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9517/page15.html<BR>
<BR>
It's for the 6th Cavalry Group in WWII, but the unit patch seems to match<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:53:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
From: <Kagehira@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry you're not. If the JTAS material was actually canon you might<BR>
> be, but all material (unless otherwise stated) are variants (read the<BR>
> editorial)  :)<BR>
<BR>
Please, don't get all technical! :)<BR>
<BR>
Besides, Annic Nova, Leviathan, Shadows, etc. are on Marc's list of "The<BR>
Traveller Canon" (from the first volume of the Classic Traveller Reprints).<BR>
<BR>
So, Nyah. :)<BR>
<BR>
Incidentally, the Journal is also listed.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:05:24 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
> Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for<BR>
> very long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary<BR>
> potables" for their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?<BR>
<BR>
* Pan-galactic gargle-blaster<BR>
<BR>
* Gin & Tonic  (or something pronounced in a similiar fashion)<BR>
<BR>
* Old Janx Spirit<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:04:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport<BR>
<BR>
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 3/18/00 1:30 PM, Jesse LaBranche<BR>
> Vanquer@email.msn.com issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
> > I mean didn't anyone else ever notice that almost every<BR>
> > country in the world has words in their languages that resemble<BR>
> > ours?<BR>
><BR>
> That's because we Americans consider "Emminent Domain" to<BR>
> include linguistics, so we just stea-- uh, *borrow* what words look<BR>
> nifty to us.<BR>
<BR>
Not at all. On one hand, England was a linguistic melting pot, so the<BR>
language is based on a particularly bizarre mixture.<BR>
<BR>
As time went on Britain and then America came up with a lot of nifty<BR>
developments, so the English words got loaned to a number of different<BR>
countries. Finally, some concepts just don't exist in the English language<BR>
at all, so the word is borrowed from the original language (this happens a<BR>
lot in philosophy and militaria, which reminds me of the "Descartes Demons"<BR>
post a few months back in the thread on naming the Ground Forces book).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:18:29 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:35:41 GMT<BR>
>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
>Subject: New stuff from FS?<BR>
><BR>
>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:30:12 +1100, "Katharine Whitchurch"<BR>
><katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>>Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the<BR>
>>flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with<BR>
>>     (a) elephant-mounted Particle Accelerators<BR>
>>     (b) the military version of the Jet Bike (I'm thinking of the racing<BR>
>>version with a 50kg long-rod penetrator<BR>
>>     (c) a new, upgraded Sound System<BR>
>>     (d) a Ground Car.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Note that none of these exist. Yet.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Ian Whitchurch<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think you have the guts to release this stuff. I DARE you to<BR>
>release it! Nyah nyah! Ian's afraid to sell elephant-mounted Particle<BR>
>Accelerators!<BR>
><BR>
>Hey, honey? Have you seen my medication? I think I did something<BR>
>stupid.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
MEMO<BR>
ORIG: Uncle Hengabar<BR>
DEST: Ditzie<BR>
SUBJ: Elephant-Mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
<BR>
Dear Ditzie: with reference to the foregoing, please advise as to the<BR>
feasibility of elephant-mounted PA weapons for export purposes.  Given the<BR>
target market, assume that the mounts will have to be a) serviceable by<BR>
barbarians, b) TL-2/3, and c) flameproof.  You might want to look into<BR>
flameproofing the elephants as well, and investigating their response to<BR>
the usual array of chemical performance enhancers.<BR>
<BR>
Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
<BR>
Your loving uncle Hengie...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:11:34 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: X-Boat Routes (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2126)<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone remember around what time these topics were posted? I'd love to <BR>
see what came up on Secondary industries created by X-Boat hubs and Courier <BR>
support facilities. Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:13:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
From: R.D. Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
> between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
><BR>
> Your loving uncle Hengie...<BR>
<BR>
You might want to consider the Traveller miniphant as well. They are a part<BR>
of the Traveller universe already.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:14:55 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Claimed Mongo from Ming ? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:39:52 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
> What do y'all think?<BR>
> <BR>
> Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the<BR>
> spammer?<BR>
<BR>
I have sent a very polite reply requesting an apology. Let's see what<BR>
happens...<BR>
<BR>
> (Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That<BR>
> Wouldn't Die.)<BR>
<BR>
... although I was tempted to attach a part of my archives of saved<BR>
posts :-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:05:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancient research<BR>
<BR>
At 02:11 PM 3/19/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>> I may have to send a paralegal there for a sacrifice.<BR>
>>Isn't that why you keep interns around?<BR>
><BR>
>You obviously understand the practice of law.<BR>
<BR>
I wish to invoke my Fifth Amendment rights, and refuse to answer the<BR>
question on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"When you're raised by the Jesuits, you<BR>
end up obedient or impertinent."<BR>
   - Asst DA Jack McCoy, _Law And Order_<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:13:16<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
At 04:08 PM 3/19/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I think my answer was something like "everyone dies a horrible death -- go <BR>
>away and lemme sleep!" punctuated with a few obscenities . . . <BR>
<BR>
Splort! I think Loren just registered his first kill!<BR>
<BR>
>Anyway, if we had decided there _was_ another universe with planets and <BR>
>stuff there, we'd just have to describe and map it <BR>
<BR>
Nah, just pick up a copy of Dreamlands..  hmmm...  <BR>
<BR>
Seriously Loren, I love the stories of how some of this stuff came together.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:37:31 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
>someone else wrote:<BR>
>>>Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it <BR>
>>>been taken? What worlds are claimed so far?<BR>
<BR>
There was a detailed writeup of glisten in an issue of Travellers' Digest<BR>
(I forget the number; I can dig it out if someone needs it).<BR>
 <BR>
>Doug replied:<BR>
>>Heya/Regina    Doug Berry<BR>
<BR>
Heya was the site of an adventure in _The Traveller Book_. The description of<BR>
Heya in "the Heya Campaign" in _Star Mercs_ is based on that, but there are<BR>
more details in TTB.<BR>
<BR>
>>Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell.<BR>
>>Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.<BR>
 <BR>
>Doug, Luther Martin claimed Esalin/Jewell shortly after I<BR>
>claimed Mongo.<BR>
 <BR>
Other worlds that have been written about:<BR>
<BR>
I've had a writeup of Forboldn accepted by PYRAMID. Likewise an adventure <BR>
set on Grant. I was told that it could take as long as six months before <BR>
they appear, but they are on the way.<BR>
<BR>
Alell was the site on another adventure in TTB (reprinted in T4). Arden was<BR>
the site of an adventure by Marc Miller in a magazine the name of which I<BR>
can't recall for the moment. Utoland was featured in _Expedition to Zhodane_<BR>
None of these appear to have been used as a basis for the respective writeups<BR>
in _Behind the Claw_.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:11:37 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall seeing a re-print of that in (I think) "White Dwarf"<BR>
and writing in to say that you couldn't fence with a cutlass. Since<BR>
then, I've become a fencing coach and I still say that you can't - at<BR>
least not in the same way as with a sabre. Its really in the<BR>
broadsword class - but that's just a different sort of fencing. IMTU,<BR>
rules to cover the whole range could be damn handy - anyone have any?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of J. Paul<BR>
> Sanders<BR>
> Sent: 17 March 2000 18:37<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Came across this in my files today - I don't think I even<BR>
> have the paper<BR>
> photocopy that I used to key the article in with several<BR>
> years ago. Anyway,<BR>
> thought others might be interested, so enjoy.<BR>
><BR>
[snip]<BR>
>      In Traveller rapier - dagger fencing can be done as<BR>
> follows. There are 3 long sword-type weapons eligible for<BR>
> this kind of fencing. Foil (actually a rapier or epee)<BR>
> Sword, and Cutlass. The Broadsword is too heavy and<BR>
> two-handed. There is only ONE weapon that can serve as the<BR>
> parrying weapon or main-gausche: Blade. To use this type of<BR>
> combat the character must have at least 1 expertise in the<BR>
> long bladed weapon, 1/2 expertise in Blade, and a special<BR>
> expertise in rapier - dagger combat.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:45:41 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
Jen Wrote:<BR>
> * Pan-galactic gargle-blaster<BR>
> * Gin & Tonic  (or something pronounced in a similiar fashion)<BR>
> * Old Janx Spirit<BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
    The Pan-galactic and Janx... are those something from<BR>
canon, real life, or YTU? Mind elaborating on either/both of<BR>
them for me?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:05:47 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Correct me if I am wrong, but is fencing about punturing the heart with the point of the blade, while fighting with a sword (or braodsword) is about cutting with the blade (or bludgeoning to death if the opponnent has armour or the sword is blunt) <BR>
<BR>
If this is correct, then I guess it comes down to who strikes first. The sword may not be able to parry the the sabre (too slow), and the sabre may not have the tensile strength to stop the sword in full swing.<BR>
<BR>
This may be reflected as such. <BR>
The sabre gets a chance to hit first, if it does the sword(sman) has to be exceptionally skilled to block the blow (or lucky)<BR>
<BR>
If it doesnt, the sword swings, and the sabre has to be exceptionally skilled to parry the sword. <BR>
<BR>
How does this read?<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:11:37   Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
>I seem to recall seeing a re-print of that in (I think) "White Dwarf"<BR>
>and writing in to say that you couldn't fence with a cutlass. Since<BR>
>then, I've become a fencing coach and I still say that you can't - at<BR>
>least not in the same way as with a sabre. Its really in the<BR>
>broadsword class - but that's just a different sort of fencing. IMTU,<BR>
>rules to cover the whole range could be damn handy - anyone have any?<BR>
><BR>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
>> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of J. Paul<BR>
>> Sanders<BR>
>> Sent: 17 March 2000 18:37<BR>
>> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
>> Subject: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> Came across this in my files today - I don't think I even<BR>
>> have the paper<BR>
>> photocopy that I used to key the article in with several<BR>
>> years ago. Anyway,<BR>
>> thought others might be interested, so enjoy.<BR>
>><BR>
>[snip]<BR>
>>      In Traveller rapier - dagger fencing can be done as<BR>
>> follows. There are 3 long sword-type weapons eligible for<BR>
>> this kind of fencing. Foil (actually a rapier or epee)<BR>
>> Sword, and Cutlass. The Broadsword is too heavy and<BR>
>> two-handed. There is only ONE weapon that can serve as the<BR>
>> parrying weapon or main-gausche: Blade. To use this type of<BR>
>> combat the character must have at least 1 expertise in the<BR>
>> long bladed weapon, 1/2 expertise in Blade, and a special<BR>
>> expertise in rapier - dagger combat.<BR>
>[snip]<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2130<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2131</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 19 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2131<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
Re: Roswell<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Lost Supplements?<BR>
Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
FYI - Traveller Items on Yahoo! Auctions<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
541st Boy Scout Artillery Corps<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Laphroaig<BR>
Re: 541st Boy Scout Artillery Corps<BR>
Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2087<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Online Sectors<BR>
Re: Clockwork Carbine<BR>
Re: Elephant-mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:16:51<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
At 05:18 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Dear Ditzie: with reference to the foregoing, please advise as to the<BR>
>feasibility of elephant-mounted PA weapons for export purposes.  Given the<BR>
>target market, assume that the mounts will have to be a) serviceable by<BR>
>barbarians, b) TL-2/3, and c) flameproof.  You might want to look into<BR>
>flameproofing the elephants as well, and investigating their response to<BR>
>the usual array of chemical performance enhancers.<BR>
<BR>
Why do I picture a pen filled with elephants, all cowering in obvious<BR>
terror in a corner as a small girl wlks towards them...<BR>
><BR>
>Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
>between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
<BR>
What about Swallows?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:17:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Roswell<BR>
<BR>
At 02:57 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Do you think that Drudge would put it on his site?  It sounds strange<BR>
>enough.<BR>
<BR>
Just posted this little missive to alt.conspiracy...<BR>
***<BR>
The Shrub's official campaign website:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.georgewbush.com/<BR>
<BR>
Is hosted by an Austin based ISP called Illuminati Online. since<BR>
Daddy is a 33rd degree Mason and member of Skull and Bones, and<BR>
Dubya seems to have been anointed by GOP insiders to be the<BR>
presidential candidate before the voters had a chance, could this<BR>
be a simple coincidence?<BR>
<BR>
But there's more! Illumniati Online is closely associated with<BR>
Steve Jackson Games, which was the company raided by the Secret<BR>
Service back in 1990. Despite the seizure of numerous materials<BR>
related to hacking, no charges were ever filed. In fact, the USSS<BR>
had to pay *fines* to the company. <BR>
<BR>
Was this light treatment given in return for further<BR>
considerations for the younger Bush family members? Perhaps the<BR>
minds behind IO are using their own publications, describe by<BR>
federal agents as "a handbook for computer crime," to somehow rig<BR>
polls to discourage maverick Republicans from turning out.<BR>
<BR>
I find this all very interesting...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Rev. Douglas Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/<BR>
<BR>
First Crutch of DB Cooper, Descended<BR>
All Hail Eris  )+(  All Hail Discordia<BR>
***<BR>
<BR>
This hits some good a.c. hotpoints; Masons, the jackbooted federal thugs,<BR>
rigged elections. This should be amusing. The spelling errors were left in<BR>
to make this a better "The Truth Is Out There" style post. John should<BR>
approve.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:28:06<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 07:08 PM 3/19/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>At 08:09 18.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
*snip*<BR>
<BR>
>A smiley would have been helpful to make clear what you mean...<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but I don't do that level of humor-impairment. If it isn't obvious<BR>
to all reading by now, I go from really silly to extremely touchy in a<BR>
heartbeat. Try living with my body chemistry sometime. Cancer sucks.<BR>
<BR>
That be said, I'm the son of an Englishman, a devoted student of history,<BR>
and am probably the only person in history to ask the nice folks in<BR>
#iceland to translate a .sig file.<BR>
<BR>
In short, I'm a nice, if odd person. I just don't feel the need to put a<BR>
label on every statement I make. But if anyone requires them, here are some<BR>
hand-typed smilies, guarnteed to work on any post I've written.<BR>
<BR>
:) :) :) :P :/ B) :( ;9 }8> }:)> :) :) :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
   http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com<BR>
<BR>
"A mrgs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:35:48 -0800<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lost Supplements?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:54 AM 3/19/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Is Paul Sanders still taking orders for the Keith Brothers Lost Supplements? <BR>
>Does anyone have this e-mail?<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks<BR>
><BR>
>Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes - I still have 17 sets remaining. The ordering information is at the<BR>
following url: <BR>
<http://www.primenet.com/~timmon/supplements.html>www.primenet.com/~timmon/s<BR>
upplements.html<BR>
<BR>
L8r,<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:43:26 EST<BR>
From: Damage169@cs.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:54:31 -0700, Dale Gyles <BR>
<gyles@mtn-webtech.com> writes:<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
>  I'm just glad to see my home state finally get a battleship named after it.<BR>
>  They cancelled the proposed Montana class in WWII.<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
But the state of Montana doesn't exist. It's all a cover-up. After Wyoming <BR>
lost its 1957 war with Canada, the US government denied it ever happened and <BR>
designated the battlefield as the "state" of Montana. To support their <BR>
cover-up, they set up an enormous organization of people to pretend to be <BR>
from there, writing letters to their families saying they had moved there, <BR>
etc. This was based out of Boise, Idaho (after all, there's no other reason <BR>
for a city that size to be there, is there).<BR>
<BR>
Doug Grimes :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:47:23 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: FYI - Traveller Items on Yahoo! Auctions<BR>
<BR>
I'm not selling these but I thought a few people might be interested....There <BR>
are a few items on Yahoo Auctions including Books 6-8...<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:46:09 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com posted:<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not sure, but I may have started this "jumpspace is<BR>
deadly" thing about 3<BR>
> AM at a convention many many years ago.<BR>
<BR>
Ah HA!<BR>
<BR>
Another underlying secret of the OTU is laid bare after all<BR>
these years.<BR>
<BR>
> Anyway, if we had decided there _was_ another universe<BR>
with planets and<BR>
> stuff  there, we'd just have to describe and map it<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> and that way lies madness.<BR>
<BR>
Nooo kiddin'. And bless you for making GMing much easier for<BR>
us.<BR>
(even if you were just trying to get some shuteye).<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:45:42 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
> Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
><BR>
> I pity the poor PC's who get _that_ shipment contract!<BR>
><BR>
> Plain brown shipping crates (I suspect _everything_ FS ships goes in plain<BR>
> brown wrappers ;-) marked in stencil: FS-DFG HANDLE WITH CARE THIS SIDE<BR>
> UP.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
What does the DFG stand for ?<BR>
<BR>
> From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
> Subject: New stuff from FS?<BR>
> I don't think you have the guts to release this stuff. I DARE you to<BR>
> release it! Nyah nyah! Ian's afraid to sell elephant-mounted Particle<BR>
> Accelerators!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Of *course* I'm afraid of virtually everything that comes out of FS' design<BR>
team. What do you think I am, stupid ? Remember, Ditzie is the deranged 7<BR>
year old engineering genius on personality-stabailising pills. I'm just her<BR>
Personal Assistant ...<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Jet Bike<BR>
><BR>
> << It also means that in the event of a crash that ruptures fuel tanks or<BR>
>  fuel lines, the pilot survivability closely approximates zero.<BR>
>   >><BR>
><BR>
> It would appear at least one of the FS forebears was working for the<BR>
> Luftwaffe in WWII -- this sound suspiciously like the Me-163<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
No, they are quite different. The Me-163 was the desperate act of a mad<BR>
civilisation with an utter disregard for human life - one last attempt to<BR>
build a super-weapon that will prevent the end of the Iron Dream.<BR>
<BR>
The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike is the calm, reasoned response of a corporation<BR>
with a keen understanding of the value of customers - one more attempt to<BR>
engineer a product that will exemplify the deeply-held corporate values of<BR>
Famile Spofulam.<BR>
<BR>
Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:59:54 EST<BR>
From: Damage169@cs.com<BR>
Subject: 541st Boy Scout Artillery Corps<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:51:16 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com <BR>
(Leonard Erickson) writes:<BR>
<BR>
>  In mail you write:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  >> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>  >> From: Black ICE [mailto:wombat@premier.net]<BR>
>  >> True, as illustrated by one of the standard jokes in the US Army:<BR>
>  >> <BR>
>  >> Q.  What's the difference between the Army and the Boy Scouts?<BR>
>  >> <BR>
>  >> A.  The Boy Scouts have adult supervision.<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > Or, as my dad says:<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > A. The Boy Scouts don't have heavy artillery.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Only because the BATF would get upset. And because there's no merit<BR>
>  badge for it.<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
"Okay, Mr. Scoutmaster. Why doesn't this howitzer have the appropriate 'Keep <BR>
out of reach of Children' warning label on it?"<BR>
<BR>
Doug Grimes :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:01:20 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46   Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
<BR>
Mounted on the trunk, of course, so that it will be completely directional.<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:08:16 EST<BR>
From: Damage169@cs.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Laphroaig<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:57:17 -0000, "MJ Dougherty" <BR>
<martinjd@globalnet.co.uk> writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  Heretics! Glen Livet is the finest. All others pale by comparison.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Esp Laphroaig, which tastes remarkably like the back of a fireplace....<BR>
>  <BR>
>  MJD<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
Whoa, there, friend. You can insult a man's car. You can insult a man's wife. <BR>
You can even insult a man's favored Traveller ruleset. But never, ever, <BR>
insult a man's single-malt.<BR>
<BR>
Doug Grimes<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:15:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 541st Boy Scout Artillery Corps<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
>>  >> <BR>
>>  >> Q.  What's the difference between the Army and the Boy Scouts?<BR>
>>  >> <BR>
>>  >> A.  The Boy Scouts have adult supervision.<BR>
>>  ><BR>
>>  > Or, as my dad says:<BR>
>>  ><BR>
>>  > A. The Boy Scouts don't have heavy artillery.<BR>
>>  <BR>
>>  Only because the BATF would get upset. And because there's no merit<BR>
>>  badge for it.<BR>
>>  <BR>
><BR>
>"Okay, Mr. Scoutmaster. Why doesn't this howitzer have the appropriate 'Keep <BR>
>out of reach of Children' warning label on it?"<BR>
<BR>
<wiht apologies to Roderick, Ian, et al><BR>
<BR>
"It _does_.  See, there in Bilanidin 2-point, right under the large 'Famile Spofulam' logo.  The warning label also says in Semimodern Lower-Middle Vilani (Sylean sub-dialect) that anyone who can read the label is not to be considered a child."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:36:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Douglas Berry <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>At 05:18 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Dear Ditzie: with reference to the foregoing, please advise as to the<BR>
>>feasibility of elephant-mounted PA weapons for export purposes.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
><BR>
>Why do I picture a pen filled with elephants, all cowering in obvious<BR>
>terror in a corner as a small girl walks towards them...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
>>between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
><BR>
>What about Swallows?<BR>
<BR>
Are you implying that Particle Accelerators are migratory?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
_________________________________________<BR>
eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:43:34 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2087<BR>
<BR>
On 15 Mar 2000, 11:17:37 EST, Damage169@cs.com wrote:<BR>
>Laphroiag. Best I've ever tasted. Got hooked on it at Holy Loch. Expensive <BR>
>but well worth it.<BR>
><BR>
>Doug Grimes<BR>
<BR>
	Doug has discovered the True Nectar of the Gods.  Thanks to severe ulcers,<BR>
I am not allowed to partake any longer.  But of the two dozen or so single<BR>
malts I have tried, Laphroaig is the best.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:50:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> someone else wrote:<BR>
> >>Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it <BR>
> >>been taken? What worlds are claimed so far?<BR>
> <BR>
> Doug replied:<BR>
> >Heya/Regina    Doug Berry<BR>
> >Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell.<BR>
> >Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.<BR>
> <BR>
> Doug, Luther Martin claimed Esalin/Jewell shortly after I<BR>
> claimed Mongo.<BR>
> <BR>
I claimed Wonstar/Five Sisters...<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:51:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
- --- Jens Rydholm <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
>> Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for<BR>
>> very long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary<BR>
>> potables" for their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?<BR>
><BR>
>* Pan-galactic gargle-blaster<BR>
><BR>
>* Gin & Tonic  (or something pronounced in a similiar fashion)<BR>
><BR>
>* Old Janx Spirit<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I prefer Sirian (sometimes spelled "Syrian") Panther Sweat, from the "Stainless Steel Rat" books....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
_________________________________________<BR>
eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:03:01 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Online Sectors<BR>
<BR>
>>If anyone has/knows of other sectors, or has better data, let me know!<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>I'm not sure about better but my notes shoe TWO Arzul sectors - Meshan<BR>
>(Arzul) and Ingukrax (Arzul). I Think what you've listed as Arzul is<BR>
>Ingukrax.<BR>
><BR>
>I've also got a copy of Provence sector (1200, with 1117 attached , I<BR>
>think) and a patial listing for Far Frontiers sector if you want either.<BR>
><BR>
>Would I be able to get a copy of your data for Crusis Margin, Gashikan,<BR>
>Trenchan, and Windhorn? I don't seem to have a thing one these sectors.<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks, Jonathan<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I didn't know that about Arzul...I've been assuming that the data I have is<BR>
the sector directly to trailing of Amdukan. I'd be interested in seeing your<BR>
file.<BR>
<BR>
I'd love to get a copy of Provence (Lair! In my database! BWU-Ha-Ha!)<BR>
<BR>
I've been getting a bunch of requests for my data...I may have to post it up<BR>
to a website. I'll keep the list updated. Also, you're inspiring me to<BR>
actually get around to finishing the basic project so that anybody can have<BR>
all 72 of the sectors I've collected. Right now I'm still trying to sort<BR>
through allegiance and base codes (I have good information on what most of<BR>
the allegiance codes break out to, but they were not consistent across<BR>
sectors. I'm in the process of building a translation table that will allow<BR>
me to match them all up and give each one a unique ID. Also, I have to build<BR>
the graphic mapping of the subsector. And I haven't even begun work on<BR>
printing out the map. Sigh.)<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:10:47 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Clockwork Carbine<BR>
<BR>
Loved the clockwork carbine! LOL<BR>
<BR>
For years, I have used the CT/MT rules to run adventures in the American Old<BR>
West, with very good results. The only "genre rule" that Trav doesn't have<BR>
is a hit location system, but I'm willing to skip that for the increase in<BR>
speed (the last thing you want is a "quick-draw" game with a numbingly slow<BR>
combat system.)<BR>
<BR>
Once, in a fit of extremely perverse boredom, I designed an adventure set on<BR>
a frontier region of Provence/Lair centuries before the Vargr acheived<BR>
spaceflight. Yup, Vargr in the Old West. The PCs were in town to rob a bank<BR>
or something equally destructive. I was going to have the adventure link to<BR>
one where they ran into desert tribesman straight out of that Sean Connery<BR>
movie, "The Lion and the Desert," but never had the guts to ever run the<BR>
adventure.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:11:09 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Elephant-mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
<BR>
> From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
> MEMO<BR>
> ORIG: Uncle Hengabar<BR>
> DEST: Ditzie<BR>
> SUBJ: Elephant-Mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
><BR>
> Dear Ditzie: with reference to the foregoing, please advise as to the<BR>
> feasibility of elephant-mounted PA weapons for export purposes.  Given the<BR>
> target market, assume that the mounts will have to be a) serviceable by<BR>
> barbarians, b) TL-2/3, and c) flameproof.  You might want to look into<BR>
> flameproofing the elephants as well, and investigating their response to<BR>
> the usual array of chemical performance enhancers.<BR>
><BR>
> Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
> between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
><BR>
> Your loving uncle Hengie...<BR>
<BR>
We reckon-weckon they're viiiiiiiable, but but but but techie-wechie<BR>
peeeeeople are gunna-wunna hafta goooo with the pawsie-wasies coz coz coz<BR>
the looocals bein the niiiice elphant loving peeeeples that they aaaare are<BR>
goanna know know knooooow lots about elphants but but but not muuuch about<BR>
pawsie-wasies. Weeee'lll twy an an an build it to techie-wechie tennnn<BR>
technowogy so so so we can find lots of techsie-wecksies.<BR>
<BR>
So, I weckon that a elphant is goanna be able to carry-warry about a ton an<BR>
a halfie-walfie, an an an an the wange doesnt hafta be thaaaaat long, so so<BR>
so the way to goooo is a circular pawsie-wasie. We wanna be able to punch<BR>
throoooough one an a haaaalf cennimeters of suuuuperdense, an an an have a<BR>
wangie-wange of tennnn kiwometers.<BR>
<BR>
Okies, so less call it a tunnel radius of one meter-weters, an an an a<BR>
tunnel diaaaameter of seventy five cennimeeeeters. Thats zerooo point one<BR>
four four squaaare meters of suuurface awea, an an an a tunnel voluuume of<BR>
fiiive point fiiive fiiiive cuuubic meter-weters, for a costie-wostie of<BR>
fiiifty kilocwedits.<BR>
<BR>
An an an an each lapsie-wapsie will aaaad one half of a meeeegajoule, so<BR>
we'll needie-weedie zeeero point eiiight tons of acuuuumulator at a<BR>
costie-wostie of four kiwocwedits.<BR>
<BR>
An an an we'll needie-weedie a fiiiifty kiwometer beamie-weamie pooiinnter<BR>
for for for two hunnerd an ninety kiwogwans, an an an twenny nine<BR>
kiwocwedits.<BR>
<BR>
An an an if weee send the particle-warticle for a hunnerd laps, that will<BR>
make it fiiiive megajoules comin out an an an need an iiiinput of of of<BR>
fifty megajoules every twenny seconds, or or or twoooo-point fiiive<BR>
megawatts, an an an weee can doooo thattt with with with one point threee<BR>
tons of of of battery-watteries that that that will have enough juuuuice for<BR>
eighteeeen shots. These will cost twooo kilocwedits.<BR>
<BR>
So weee get a total massie-wassie of seven point niiine four tons, an an an<BR>
a cost of eighty-fiiive kilocwedits.<BR>
<BR>
If we needie-weedie a cawwiage to dwag it, then then then that will<BR>
massie-wass six point six tons an an an costie-wostie eight kilocwedits.<BR>
<BR>
So so so the dwagged version costs ninety-three kilocwedits, an an an masses<BR>
fooourteen tons.<BR>
<BR>
Daaamage will be siiixteen points, an an an effective wange is foty<BR>
kiwometers in a staaaindard atmophere.<BR>
<BR>
Thats the elphant mobile veeeersion.<BR>
<BR>
I'm I'm I'm stilll woooorking on on on the elpahnt mounted one.<BR>
<BR>
Your loving cousin,<BR>
<BR>
Ditzie<BR>
<BR>
*************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
OK, guys, can someone please tell me the minimum PAW damage value that will<BR>
hurt your average AF20 starship. The plan for the elephant mounted PAW is<BR>
basically to give raiders the shock of their life - they do a hit-and-run on<BR>
the local lo-tech world, but come under PAW fire from the hills surrounding<BR>
the capital.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunatly, I cant seem to shoe-horn enough damage potential into<BR>
something in the one to two ton range, once I include the accumulator and<BR>
the battery pack. I guess I could put the battery packs onto a second, third<BR>
and so on elephant, and have each battery as a one-shot job.<BR>
<BR>
I'll post that one later.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:16:16 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:16:51, "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 05:18 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Dear Ditzie: with reference to the foregoing, please advise as to the<BR>
>>feasibility of elephant-mounted PA weapons for export purposes.  Given the<BR>
>>target market, assume that the mounts will have to be a) serviceable by<BR>
>>barbarians, b) TL-2/3, and c) flameproof.  You might want to look into<BR>
>>flameproofing the elephants as well, and investigating their response to<BR>
>>the usual array of chemical performance enhancers.<BR>
><BR>
>Why do I picture a pen filled with elephants, all cowering in obvious<BR>
>terror in a corner as a small girl wlks towards them...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
>>between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
><BR>
>What about Swallows?<BR>
<BR>
Or Spitz?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
 lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:22:36 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:01:20 +1000, "Scout Harris"<BR>
<scout.harry@eudoramail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46   Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
><BR>
>Mounted on the trunk, of course, so that it will be completely directional.<BR>
<BR>
What if the elephant sneezes?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
 lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:28:27 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:22:36   Pete wrote:<BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:01:20 +1000, "Scout Harris"<BR>
><scout.harry@eudoramail.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46   Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Mounted on the trunk, of course, so that it will be completely directional.<BR>
><BR>
>What if the elephant sneezes?<BR>
<BR>
Worse, what if it sneezes while scratching its butt?<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>- Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
>"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
> lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
>Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
>NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2131<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2132</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2132<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Roswell<BR>
Re: Ancients<BR>
Re: Closers<BR>
Battle Summary - Re: so what happened after I left?<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: Miniphants?<BR>
Re: Greece<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Elephant-mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
Rim of Fire Cover suggestions<BR>
Re: EMPAs<BR>
Re: EMPAs part II<BR>
Re: Miniphants?<BR>
Re: Rim of Fire Cover suggestions<BR>
Re: Miniphants?<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:31:42 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Roswell<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:17:38, "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 02:57 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Do you think that Drudge would put it on his site?  It sounds strange<BR>
>>enough.<BR>
><BR>
>Just posted this little missive to alt.conspiracy...<BR>
>***<BR>
>The Shrub's official campaign website:<BR>
><BR>
<SNIP><BR>
><BR>
>Was this light treatment given in return for further<BR>
>considerations for the younger Bush family members? Perhaps the<BR>
>minds behind IO are using their own publications, describe by<BR>
>federal agents as "a handbook for computer crime," to somehow rig<BR>
>polls to discourage maverick Republicans from turning out.<BR>
<BR>
It's been said before but I'll say it again:<BR>
<BR>
Doug, you're an evil evil man.<BR>
<BR>
Don't ever change. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
 lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:32:43 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ancients<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 2:18 PM, Jesse LaBranche<BR>
Vanquer@email.msn.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Should you get a PBEM going on something like the above- feel free to<BR>
> let me know, I'm game :-) Just as long as you can handle someone who might<BR>
> not have all of those rules available to them currently.<BR>
<BR>
If I go the PBEM route, or any other that is net oriented like ICQ, I'll put<BR>
a general Invitation on the TML. It would be rules light to keep things<BR>
flowing, and may be based on White Wolf's Storyteller system. I have a<BR>
*very* rough idea of a character sheet on my site, minus combat pools,<BR>
condition monitors, etc. Major changes would include CT style Cgen, twelve<BR>
siders instead of tens, the expansion of skill rankings (primary, secondary,<BR>
tertiary) and the governors on the attribute pips. I also have ideas on how<BR>
to handle cascade skills, compound skills, and specializations.<BR>
<BR>
BZA's Traveller--> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/<BR>
BZA's E-Mail--> xrp@sierratel.com<BR>
<BR>
BZA's Chr Sheet 1 --> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/BZACHR.html<BR>
BZA's Chr Sheet 2 --> http://www.sierratel.com/aum/BZAT/BZACHR2.html<BR>
<BR>
Do these links work?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:37:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 2:23 PM, Glenn Goffin gmgoffin@yahoo.com<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> No, there are plenty of closers in my Traveller universe of all<BR>
> species (but I suspect that you are talking about completely<BR>
> different things).<BR>
<BR>
Duh. I don't know what either of you are talking about. Uh. What's a<BR>
"closer"? <drool><snort><wipe><BR>
<BR>
Duh.... I think something just flew over my head.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:50:29 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Battle Summary - Re: so what happened after I left?<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Did the Unicorn-Z survive Luther's ship's last volley?  That's the big<BR>
> question for me.  My strategy was to accept some damage in exchange for<BR>
> getting close enough to kill, but not to become destroyed or disabled.<BR>
> Did it work?<BR>
<BR>
Hi Glenn, <BR>
I was a little busy today but here's this month's battle report:<BR>
<BR>
For those of you that missed the "Brilliant Lances" game this month, it<BR>
went really smoothly.  I think we know the rules pretty well now.  As<BR>
for the summary, here it is:<BR>
<BR>
Luther's Gazelle was attempting to refuel at a water world.  Kristian<BR>
and Glenn's SDB's were in the ocean or orbit to collect refueling fees. <BR>
Since Luther refused to pay the $20 refueling fee, hostilities broke<BR>
out.<BR>
<BR>
The Stag-Alpha SDB cautiously advanced towards the intruder, conducting<BR>
evasive manuevers the whole time, with a screen of missiles leading the<BR>
way.  Unicorn-Z did a 4G-turn burn towards the intruder and engaged with<BR>
a barrage of ten missiles at close range.  Final results:<BR>
<BR>
Intruder:  Salvagable.  One laser barbette destroyed, gunner killed. <BR>
Power plant severely damaged, repairable.  Ship's gig is a write-off and<BR>
the crew killed.  Contr-grav destroyed.  Life support destroyed.<BR>
<BR>
Unicorn-Z:  One missile barbette destroyed, gunner killed.  Contra-grav<BR>
destroyed.  All commo knocked out.  Three engineering crew killed.<BR>
<BR>
Stag-Alpha:  Needs new furniture for captain's stateroom.<BR>
<BR>
> Spinal-mount weapons in April!<BR>
<BR>
That's right!  Next month:  "Battle Rider"  After that, there is talk of<BR>
doing Striker...<BR>
<BR>
See you all in April,<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:43:11 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:27:52, "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Working on my Imperial Army uniform for BayCon, I came across the perfect<BR>
>unit patch. It's a gold unicorn, rearing up on a blue background. The patch<BR>
>is supposed to be for the 6th Armored Cavalry Regiment.<BR>
<BR>
Will you post a picture of your finished uniform on your website?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the<BR>
 lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:46:50 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniphants?<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 3:13 PM, Chris Seamans semo@pil.net issued<BR>
forth:<BR>
<BR>
> You might want to consider the Traveller miniphant as well. They are a part<BR>
> of the Traveller universe already.<BR>
<BR>
Where? And I mean that thoroughly, as in where are the mentioned as being,<BR>
and what location is given? Are there other minimals around? Are these<BR>
engineered genetically, and why would one do that? The thought "as pets"<BR>
comes to mind, imagine a Vilani noble out walking his or her pet miniphant.<BR>
<BR>
BTW: I /was/ jesting in that post on the english language. But you summed up<BR>
the serious side quite well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:49:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 3:39 PM, Jens Rydholm<BR>
jenry023@student.liu.se issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
>> Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the<BR>
>> spammer?<BR>
> <BR>
> I have sent a very polite reply requesting an apology. Let's see what<BR>
> happens...<BR>
<BR>
?<BR>
Do you really think you'll get one? I found some nice maps on their site<BR>
that I plundered. It has very sharp layout.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:36:55 -0600<BR>
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@santech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 07:58 AM 3/19/00 +0000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 03:03 PM 3/18/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Darrian/Darrian is given a pretty good work over in AM8.<BR>
>Mithril/Sword Worlds is explored in Double Adventure 2.<BR>
>Tarsus/D-268 has it's own boxed set.<BR>
>Bowman/D-268 ditto.<BR>
>Pavabid/D-268 is the setting for Divine Intervention, half of DA6.<BR>
>Shinothy Belt/Regina is partially detail in Adventure 1.<BR>
>Dinom/Lanth is used in DA2, with world map.<BR>
>Victoria/Lanth appears in JTAS #2.<BR>
>Craw/Glisten was extesnively detailed in the two-part world-building<BR>
>     article in JTAS #10-11.<BR>
>Several worlds in Aramis subsector were fleshed out in The Traveller<BR>
>    Adventure.<BR>
>Vanejin/Rhylanor is the setting for Adventure 2.<BR>
>Fulacin/Rhylanor is the setting for Adventure 3.<BR>
<BR>
Faldor/D-268 has an adventure set on it in the KAK Lost Supplements that <BR>
Paul Sanders just released.  I haven't had time to look at it yet.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@fastlane.net<BR>
<BR>
You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.<BR>
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,<BR>
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually <BR>
deserve them?<BR>
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the <BR>
universe.<BR>
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:58:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 4:37 PM, Hans Rancke-Madsen rancke@diku.dk<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> There was a detailed writeup of glisten in an issue of Travellers' Digest<BR>
> (I forget the number; I can dig it out if someone needs it).<BR>
<BR>
Well, BtC is all we have to stay with from what I hear, but I like not<BR>
contradicting earlier material. If you do get around to it, you could send<BR>
the appropriate data to Hypercleats at aum@sierratel.com or to me at<BR>
xrp@sierratel.com or perhaps just post it here. I am sure folks here might<BR>
like to see it, at least those without that issue. If there is some kind of<BR>
graphic, you can't post /that/ here, but since Glisten is an asteroid belt,<BR>
I sort of doubt there is a map.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:10:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Elephant-mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 7:11 PM, Katharine Whitchurch<BR>
katts@globalfreeway.com.au issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Thats the elphant mobile veeeersion.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm I'm I'm stilll woooorking on on on the elpahnt mounted one.<BR>
<BR>
There is one heck of a splort-generator.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:13:39 EST<BR>
From: Damage169@cs.com<BR>
Subject: Rim of Fire Cover suggestions<BR>
<BR>
In messages dated 3/16/00 2:27:01 PM Central Standard Time, many people write:<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
>  Or show the Pacific rim which is also known as Ring of Fire<BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>  - -----Original Message-----<BR>
>  From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>  Subject: re: Info request re: "Rim" and another cover!<BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>  >Why not show a different part of the Earth to the usual Europe or US, <BR>
>  >and/or show it from the perspective of an Earth eclipse of the moon so <BR>
>  >you get a 'Rim of Fire'?<BR>
>  <BR>
>  ------------------------------<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:10:37 GMT<BR>
>  From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
>  Subject: Re:  Rim Cover<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Jessie,<BR>
>     The only product to feature a Space Station around Terran orbit was a <BR>
>  Traveller Chronicle...it also had a nice shot of Columbia.  Judging from <BR>
the <BR>
> <BR>
>  configration, I always assumed it was the L5 colony.  What would be nice <BR>
>  would be a take on the Voyager picture that showed Terra and Luna <BR>
together.  <BR>
> <BR>
>  To download a copy it would be on the Sword of the Knight homepage under <BR>
>  traveller chronicle...if they have gone kaput I am sure I could russle up <BR>
a <BR>
>  colour photocopy if someone else on the list cannot send you a scan.  A <BR>
>  pity, I was hoping that you were going to do something with people in it <BR>
for <BR>
> <BR>
>  the Rim.  Keep up the EXCELLENT work!!!<BR>
>  Regards,<BR>
>  Boris Cibic<BR>
>  kafka47@hotmail.com<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
Another possibility is to combine the ideas from these posts by showing the <BR>
nightsides of both Terra and Luna (with extensive citylight outlines of <BR>
continents and extra stuff) through the window sections along the insides of <BR>
an O'Neill satellite at either of the lunar Trojan points. It may be a 'busy' <BR>
picture, but it would show how developed the Terran system is.<BR>
<BR>
Use with permission, grab it and run swiftly. As Boris said, your work is <BR>
excellent, please make more.<BR>
<BR>
Doug Grimes<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:14:00 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: EMPAs<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-19 22:29:52 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
 <BR>
 Ian Whitchurch<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
With or without machineguns? I forget which is the Elfant and which is the <BR>
Ferdinand . . .<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:17:30 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: EMPAs part II<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-19 22:29:52 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 What if the elephant sneezes?  >><BR>
<BR>
"He falls to his knees, and that is the end of the monk the monk the monk the <BR>
monk<BR>
and that is the end of the monk . . ."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:29:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniphants?<BR>
<BR>
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > You might want to consider the Traveller miniphant as well. They<BR>
> > are a part of the Traveller universe already.<BR>
><BR>
> Where? And I mean that thoroughly, as in where are the mentioned<BR>
> as being, and what location is given? Are there other minimals<BR>
> around? Are these engineered genetically, and why would one do<BR>
> that? The thought "as pets" comes to mind, imagine a Vilani noble<BR>
> out walking his or her pet miniphant.<BR>
<BR>
They were originally detailed in JTAS No. 16, in the Bestiary section and<BR>
were created by Roger Moore. All quotes are from that article.<BR>
<BR>
Back when Terra was first expanding into space, "a number of worlds were<BR>
settled whose terrains challenged the best overland transportation systems."<BR>
Back in the early days, some of these colonies were pretty unsophisticated,<BR>
so a low-cost and low-maintenance alternative was needed.<BR>
<BR>
Beasts of burden fit the bill perfectly, as "[t]he animals could be sent to<BR>
colonies in embryonic form". They "...soon became the low tech alternative<BR>
to the truck and ATV on many worlds."<BR>
<BR>
One popular variation on this theme was the miniphant.  The stand an average<BR>
of a little over 2 meters at shoulder, males weigh an average of 1800<BR>
kilograms and females 1600. They don't have tusks, and they're really rather<BR>
bright.<BR>
<BR>
Genetic engineering isn't mentioned (they were "specially bred"), but as the<BR>
miniphant first appeared in 1983, I think it's safe to modify that to<BR>
"genetically engineered".<BR>
<BR>
> BTW: I /was/ jesting in that post on the english language. But you<BR>
> summed up the serious side quite well.<BR>
<BR>
No problem. For a number of reasons, I've been humor impaired lately. Sorry<BR>
for any mix-up.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:33:05 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rim of Fire Cover suggestions<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 8:13 PM, Damage169@cs.com Damage169@cs.com<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Another possibility is to combine the ideas from these posts by showing the<BR>
> nightsides of both Terra and Luna (with extensive citylight outlines of<BR>
> continents and extra stuff) through the window sections along the insides of<BR>
> an O'Neill satellite at either of the lunar Trojan points. It may be a 'busy'<BR>
> picture, but it would show how developed the Terran system is.<BR>
<BR>
That sounds like a great idea. If you /don't/ use it for GT:RoF, please<BR>
think about doing it anyway. The night side aspect is really interesting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:11:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Miniphants?<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 8:29 PM, Chris Seamans semo@pil.net issued<BR>
forth:<BR>
<BR>
> No problem. For a number of reasons, I've been humor impaired lately. Sorry<BR>
> for any mix-up.<BR>
<BR>
It's cool, and thanks for the info, not quite as small as I was thinking,<BR>
and very useful too. One of the problems with regular elephants is how much<BR>
they eat. I assume these would eat less, did the article mention that? I<BR>
can't recall off the top of my head how much regular elephants eat, but it<BR>
is a lot.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 05:51:09 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
At 17:37 19.03.00 -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>One other referee I know<BR>
>simply makes it impossible to create a jump field within another<BR>
>jump field - "The drive has sucked up all the fuel, and the grid<BR>
>glowed pretty, but nothing else has happened."<BR>
<BR>
This makes sense, BTW: If the first ship takes a bubble of n-space with it,<BR>
all you can do is jump between two points _within_ that bubble... So<BR>
perhaps the ship vanishes, bvut after a week, it will come out of jump<BR>
space right at the point where the first ship  exits.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:11:41 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 17:28 19.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>That be said, I'm the son of an Englishman, a devoted student of history,<BR>
>and am probably the only person in history to ask the nice folks in<BR>
>#iceland to translate a .sig file.<BR>
<BR>
I this a question regarding _my_ .sig-lines?<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
>In short, I'm a nice, if odd person. I just don't feel the need to put a<BR>
>label on every statement I make. But if anyone requires them, here are some<BR>
>hand-typed smilies, guarnteed to work on any post I've written.<BR>
><BR>
>:) :) :) :P :/ B) :( ;9 }8> }:)> :) :) :)<BR>
<BR>
ROTFL<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'll do that. Thank you for the extra smileys. My supplies were<BR>
running short...<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:40:01 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
<BR>
Damage169@cs.com [Doug Grimes] wrote<BR>
<BR>
> the state of Montana doesn't exist. It's all a cover-up. After Wyoming <BR>
> lost its 1957 war with Canada, the US government denied it ever happened and <BR>
> designated the battlefield as the "state" of Montana. <BR>
<BR>
So does this mean that my memories of having driven through <BR>
Montana (both ways) while traveling to and from the lower<BR>
48 are merely false memories implanted by federal agents<BR>
in black helicopters using the mind control technology<BR>
they got from the greys?<BR>
<BR>
If so, when do I get to meet Gillian and David?<BR>
[leer]<BR>
<BR>
OBTrav: Obviously the greys are a minor race that is<BR>
spying on Earth at the behest of their Vilani masters....<BR>
<BR>
ObSpelling: Is it grays or greys? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:43:59 -0700<BR>
From: Dale Gyles <gyles@mtn-webtech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:54:31 -0700, Dale Gyles <BR>
<gyles@mtn-webtech.com> writes:<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
>>  I'm just glad to see my home state finally get a battleship named after<BR>
it.<BR>
>>  They cancelled the proposed Montana class in WWII.<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
>But the state of Montana doesn't exist. It's all a cover-up. After Wyoming <BR>
>lost its 1957 war with Canada, the US government denied it ever happened and <BR>
>designated the battlefield as the "state" of Montana. To support their <BR>
>cover-up, they set up an enormous organization of people to pretend to be <BR>
>from there, writing letters to their families saying they had moved there, <BR>
>etc. This was based out of Boise, Idaho (after all, there's no other reason <BR>
>for a city that size to be there, is there).<BR>
<BR>
>Doug Grimes :)<BR>
<BR>
No, no, no.  You're completely wrong, it's Idaho that doesn't exist.  After<BR>
all, you yourself admit there is no logical reason for Boise to exist.<BR>
<BR>
It is true that I write letters claiming to be from Montana.  Also, I<BR>
believe that the 541st Philosophy Battalion (Kant's Kommandos) was based<BR>
out of Missoula, Montana, during the war.<BR>
<BR>
Dale Gyles :)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Dale Gyles<BR>
Black Eagle, MT<BR>
gyles@mtn-webtech.com<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:30:04 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
> Jen Wrote:<BR>
> > * Pan-galactic gargle-blaster<BR>
<BR>
From Hitchhikers Guild to the Galaxy.  One is more than enough.  Probably<BR>
produced by a subsiduary of Famile Spofulam.<BR>
<BR>
> > * Gin & Tonic  (or something pronounced in a similiar fashion)<BR>
> > * Old Janx Spirit<BR>
> > /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
> <BR>
>     The Pan-galactic and Janx... are those something from<BR>
> canon, real life, or YTU? Mind elaborating on either/both of<BR>
> them for me?<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks.<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse.<BR>
> vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 02:17:57 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Mar 2000 17:40:12 (GMT -0600), stormhnd@fidnet.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
><BR>
>    I don't see any benefit to SJG in having it on CD; that only gets into<BR>
>distribution and all the problems that entails.  There's also the question of<BR>
>updates, both official and GM-generated.<BR>
<<<SNIPPAGE OF OTHER EXCELLENT POINTS>>><BR>
<BR>
	You make strong points about SJG's production and distribution costs and<BR>
timelines being unattractive for a CD but more attractive for simply<BR>
sticking HTML links into existing text files.  Although I'm not sure if<BR>
there's much profit in that, either.  :-<<BR>
<BR>
	On the other hand, I don't see much benefit to me as a player/referee of<BR>
Traveller in having it on the Web.  Too slow and clunky.  I am looking for<BR>
a reference I can put in our two laptops, leave the laptops on the gaming<BR>
table, and let players browse as we play.  Or direct them to certain<BR>
entries.  Thus, I was concerned about the ability for the referee to<BR>
control what is accessible and what isn't.  Preferably on a<BR>
player-by-player basis.<BR>
<BR>
	Someone else made an excellent suggestion that there be some sort of<BR>
filter based on dates.  I suppose the same tool could be used to filter<BR>
based on fields on other date fields.  Thus making it easy to call up a<BR>
list of every entry on, say "Droyne" for instance.  This would make the CD<BR>
an excellent tool for use in flame wars!  <G>  TMLers could bombard each<BR>
other with endless copies of official, canonical text supporting whatever<BR>
we're arguing.  Just copy and paste into email verbatim from the CD.  And<BR>
help avoid endless dead-horse-beating about whether such-and-such person<BR>
spelled or punctuated correctly.  [Hint, hint.  I am annoyed more than most<BR>
by spelling, punctuation, and grammar problems, but the complaints have<BR>
more than made their point and are getting painful in their own right.<BR>
Can't we just all get along?  Ack, I hope that cools the flames not fans<BR>
them.  Please don't hurt me, people.]  Anyway, maybe there is a big enough<BR>
market for such a CD to make it attractive?<BR>
<BR>
	Of course, I'm hoping T5 will include CDs of data, with search functions,<BR>
etc.  Though I realize I'm probably smoking crack to hope that.  The ideal<BR>
would be a fully indexed and searchable encyclopedic reference encompassing<BR>
*all* canonical material on the various milieus and places.  I, for one,<BR>
would pay quite a bit of money for such a CD or DVD, as long as it<BR>
complete, edited with real professionalism, etc, etc.  Not a knockoff.<BR>
Someone else asked, but maybe I missed the answer...how can one purchase<BR>
the HIWG CD?  Or is it no longer available?<BR>
<BR>
	Back to the WWW-only versus distributed CD thing.  More people all the<BR>
time have CD burners.  If we could download a new disk, or updates to the<BR>
disk, periodically for a subscription fee then we could burn a new disk<BR>
once a month/quarter/year/whatever.  Need to find a way to avoid the<BR>
slooooowness of the WWW, and the way it ties up a phone line.  It will be a<BR>
few years before everyone has broadband Internet access in every room<BR>
they're likely to play Traveller in.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
- --still attempting to brainstorm in search of a better world<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:54:30 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
<BR>
I would like to do something like this, but I think time is the killer for<BR>
me... and I'm only on the Gold Coast.  The Tanalorn people in Brisbane<BR>
several years ago wanted me to host a Traveller game (any incarnation) for<BR>
them at BrisCon before the committee went bad, but at the time I was<BR>
interested only in taking my group up for AD&D (no-one attached to the<BR>
Brisbane Con and game groups did ANYTHING Traveller apart from myself) stuff<BR>
"as a group" so I didn't have time.  But going by suggestions from them, I<BR>
feel Traveller would be made welcome by the Con committees (Maelstrom being<BR>
the best Con in Bris at the moment).  If I can trace an e-mail addy - I lost<BR>
touch recently - I'll pass it on if you like??<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
> I haven't been to CanCon for ages either, but that's no hassle.<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm...  I'm in deadline doom mode at the moment, but I'll leave the idea<BR>
> brewing for a couple of days.  There are a couple of people in Brisbane I<BR>
> could bounce the idea off.  Are you in touch with anyone who has run this<BR>
> kind of thing before?<BR>
><BR>
> Are any of the other Australians on the list interested in working on a<BR>
> freeform?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:54:44 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
<BR>
At 0:33 -0500 18/3/00, "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
>CORE had a much more extensive range of sectors, although the canonicity of<BR>
>some of them, is, IMHO, doubtful...specifically everything outside AoI.<BR>
>Also, ironically enough, there are some discrepancies between Core,<BR>
>Glimmerdrift Reaches and Ley sectors and AoI. (Incidentally, I think this is<BR>
>also true of Jim Vassalikos' "Galactic 2.4" Program.) I noticed the problem<BR>
>with Aldeberan once I had set up the basic form to display sector info, and<BR>
>found out Home (1009 Aldeberan according to somebody) wasn't there.<BR>
<BR>
The info at the CORE site (which is Jo Grant's site) was generate by <BR>
Jo, but may not be canonical. (Is that a word?). What you need to <BR>
find is the DGP/HIWG data files (which are co-incident with AoI data) <BR>
and are at a number of sites. Bruce Johnson's has them IIRC and so <BR>
does the Missouri Archive.<BR>
<BR>
Incidently, the official CORE site will go live soon. This will <BR>
contain details of all products produced by the CORE Product <BR>
development group, along with authors and artists bios and other <BR>
material such as errata and unpublished support material.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>In between my hunt for billable hours (I actually get paid for working in<BR>
>Access 97, sometimes) I plan to knock together something that will not only<BR>
>display a subsector map, but be completely searchable by UWP factors and<BR>
>trade codes. In theory I have the tools to make a runtime version of the<BR>
>database that will work on any Win 95+ system...if I can, I'll post it<BR>
>somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
>One week on the TML and I've seen a yacht apparently designed to slingshot<BR>
>around black holes and a hypersonic airframe Battleship (I guess to *really*<BR>
>blow crowds away at the Far Future version of air shows!) Not to mention<BR>
>xenoarchaeology! Keep up the good work, guys!<BR>
><BR>
>Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2132<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2133<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: An Amusing Gearheaded Quote<BR>
Spinward Marches Map<BR>
Re: Best Rules System<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: EMPAs<BR>
Re: Closers<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Famile Spofulam Elephant Mounted PAW<BR>
Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
Re: Elephant-mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
Re: Trav Freeforms<BR>
Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Spinward Marches Map<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:34:20 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:01:57, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:02 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it been taken? What<BR>
> >worlds are claimed so far?<BR>
> <BR>
> Heya/Regina    Doug Berry<BR>
> Ylaven/Lanth   Paul Campbell<BR>
> Mongo/Jewell   Glenn the Merciless, Esq.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't mind doing Arden/Vilis, but since it is a capital of a small but<BR>
influentially important "chunk" of the Spinward Marches, perhaps it should<BR>
be left up to each referee.  Or maybe not?<BR>
<BR>
Another issue would again involve canonicity.  At what point in time would<BR>
it be best to work with?  It appears that the Federation sure expanded fast<BR>
between 1107 and 1116.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Shh! Be vewy quiet, I'm hunting wuntime ewors!<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:34:22 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: An Amusing Gearheaded Quote<BR>
<BR>
Why Gearheads Don't Write Recipe Books<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
<BR>
Chocolate Chip Cookies:<BR>
<BR>
Ingredients:<BR>
<BR>
1.)   532.35 cm3 gluten<BR>
2.)   4.9 cm3 NaHCO3<BR>
3.)   4.9 cm3 refined halite<BR>
4.)   236.6 cm3 partially hydrogenated tallow triglyceride<BR>
5.)   177.45 cm3 crystalline C12H22O11<BR>
6.)   177.45 cm3 unrefined C12H22O11<BR>
7.)   4.9 cm3 methyl ether of protocatechuic aldehyde<BR>
8.)   Two calcium carbonate-encapsulated avian albumen-coated protein<BR>
9.)   473.2 cm3 theobroma cacao<BR>
10.)   236.6 cm3 de-encapsulated legume meats (sieve size #10)<BR>
<BR>
To a 2-L jacketed round reactor vessel (reactor #1) with an overall<BR>
heat transfer coefficient of about 100 Btu/F-ft2-hr, add ingredients<BR>
one, two and three with constant agitation.  In a second 2-L reactor<BR>
vessel with a radial flow impeller operating at 100 rpm, add<BR>
ingredients four, five, six, and seven until the mixture is<BR>
homogenous.  To reactor #2, add ingredient eight, followed by three<BR>
equal volumes of the homogenous mixture in reactor #1. Additionally,<BR>
add ingredient nine and ten slowly, with constant agitation. Care must<BR>
be taken at this point in the reaction to control any temperature rise<BR>
that may be the result of an exothermic reaction.<BR>
<BR>
Using a screw extrude attached to a #4 nodulizer, place the mixture<BR>
piece-meal on a 316SS sheet (300 x 600 mm).  Heat in a 460K oven for a<BR>
period of time that is in agreement with Frank & Johnston's first<BR>
order rate expression (see JACOS, 21, 55), or until golden brown. Once<BR>
the reaction is complete, place the sheet on a 25C heat-transfer<BR>
table, allowing the product to come to equilibrium.<BR>
<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE!<BR>
LAST MINUTE MODIFICATION:<BR>
We just received an ECN on the recipe for these cookies:<BR>
The Following changes should be made to the Engineering (EE) Cookies<BR>
formula<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
We no longer recommend the use of the 316SS sheet.  This will only<BR>
promote the formation of pure carbon compounds along the contact area.<BR>
The current recommended practice is the use of two sheets of 3 mil Al<BR>
with contiguous seams and a 4mm thick enclosed air space filled with<BR>
standard atmospheric constituents.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Shh! Be vewy quiet, I'm hunting wuntime ewors!<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:37:27 -0500<BR>
From: Peter Miller <thegolem@mindless.com><BR>
Subject: Spinward Marches Map<BR>
<BR>
Hi,<BR>
<BR>
Is there a map of the Spinward Marches online somewhere that has basically <BR>
all of the data that was on the one in the Megatraveller map?<BR>
<BR>
Also, does anyone know where one can get a copy of the Galactic <BR>
program?  All of the sites I try and get it from are broken links for some <BR>
reason.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Peter<BR>
__________________________Peter J. Miller<BR>
thegolem@mindless.com        ICQ #5294589<BR>
<BR>
"Loneliness is not a phase..."<BR>
          - 'Angry Chair', Alice in Chains<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:50:41 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Best Rules System<BR>
<BR>
>> >    I agree with you on MT's Chargen. I liked it quite a bit<BR>
>> >myself, although I found it a bit difficult to add in any new<BR>
>> >professions. That isn't a let-down though :-)<BR>
><BR>
>> I found it easy enough to add them. It's not significantly harder than for<BR>
>> CT. I added Civil Aviation and two others (I can't recall them right now;<BR>
>> have to check my files)<BR>
><BR>
>    Did you do this on the "basic" or "extended" generation? Adding them<BR>
>in with basic was truly simple, on the extended I had a LOT of trouble<BR>
>coming up with my own charts though.<BR>
<BR>
3 basic, plus once I wrote up an extended. It was rough, but it worked.<BR>
I've been thinking about doing an extended for nobles for some time, but<BR>
haven't had the time.<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
>> >    What specifically did you find "out of hand" in<BR>
>> >MT's ship construction? I know quite a bit of those<BR>
>> >problems myself since this is the one area that I really<BR>
>> >dug into when I had my MT set, but I'd like to hear<BR>
>> >other opinions.<BR>
><BR>
>> Personally, I Like MT's design system, but I've never agreed with basing<BR>
>CP<BR>
>> costs off of cost; control points should be formulaic by size and<BR>
>> complexity of object. While cost should also correlate to these two, I<BR>
>> disagree with the scaling ( although I don't have a "fix" for it; I find<BR>
>no<BR>
>> reason to do one).<BR>
><BR>
>    One thing that really bugged me about the system was that they left<BR>
>out "crew operations" areas. Things like a bridge, sick bay, engineering,<BR>
>etc. There was an easy fix to it, just requiring space for such things in<BR>
>the<BR>
>overall design, but it would have been really cool if they had put in some<BR>
>requirements for such things.<BR>
<BR>
that's covered by both the excessive volume of control panels, plus<BR>
stateroom sizes, computer sizes, and certain other issues. But, in general,<BR>
I agree with you in principle.<BR>
<BR>
>    Something more in line with what you mentioned, I often found that<BR>
>getting enough panels to handle the CP costs made it so that not much<BR>
>in the way of crew was required.<BR>
>    Also, was there ever an "erata" sheet posted for the CP figures, IIRC<BR>
>they used a fair number of abbreviations that they did not define within<BR>
>the actual text for computing CPs.<BR>
<BR>
the erratta sheets I had did.<BR>
<BR>
>> >    That was my own viewpoint, although some of the<BR>
>> >more recent posts on the subject are making me think<BR>
>> >that I was really missing something on that end.<BR>
><BR>
>> It never says you can, but it provides the damage point thresholds for<BR>
>> doing so in the "Rating" section. In the "Large Scale Combat Rules" from<BR>
>> _Referee's Companion_, it points out ships are always individual units.<BR>
>> There are guidelines for anti-vehicle fire and starship weapons in the PM<BR>
>> and RM.<BR>
><BR>
>Hmm... You're making me wish I still had it so I could compare what you're<BR>
>saying to the text as opposed to comparing with my vague memory- oh<BR>
>well :-)<BR>
><BR>
Well, in the ratings section, you compute damage point totals for all major<BR>
areas. However, these are unused by the HG-port. The only place you would<BR>
use them is when you use the "Vehicular Combat Rules" rather than the<BR>
"Space Combat Rules"... since vehicle and personal combat rules use DP's,<BR>
while the HG-style doesn't.<BR>
<BR>
The Large Scale Combat rules really only provide a means of changing the<BR>
scale, not the direct methods of inflicting injury/damage. And, for<BR>
anti-vehicular/Anti-personell use, the stats for all the standard weapons<BR>
are provided in the Player's Manual. Right amidst the other weapon tables.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:55:48 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> I staked Aster (1739) last Thursday.<BR>
<BR>
Why ? Did he break the Masquerade ?<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:55:48 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> I staked Aster (1739) last Thursday.<BR>
<BR>
Why ? Did he break the Masquerade ?<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:15:11 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: EMPAs<BR>
<BR>
At 23:14 19/03/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-19 22:29:52 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
><< Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ian Whitchurch<BR>
>  >><BR>
><BR>
>With or without machineguns? I forget which is the Elfant and which is the <BR>
>Ferdinand . . .<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
No machine guns on the Elefant<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 02:40:44 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > No, there are plenty of closers in my Traveller universe of all<BR>
> > species (but I suspect that you are talking about completely<BR>
> > different things).<BR>
<BR>
> Duh. I don't know what either of you are talking about. Uh. What's a<BR>
> "closer"? I think something just flew over my head.<BR>
<BR>
[See scene below]<BR>
<BR>
The Brokerage Offices of Spinward Development<BR>
[Fulacin/Spinward Marches]<BR>
<BR>
/Fade in to an office, about Trav TL 11, with five<BR>
sophonts in it./<BR>
<BR>
DINULI:	"Listen up you little [male generative members],<BR>
our profits are only up by 7% for the second quarter, and <BR>
I'm [past tense of urination]. I want to know which of you<BR>
[excrement] heads thought it was a good idea to sell<BR>
that 2 (displacement) ton lot of Faldorian Tranceweed<BR>
for only Cr 210,000!"<BR>
<BR>
"Oh wait, don't bother talking at once, you worthless<BR>
[acts of sexual intercourse, plural]."<BR>
<BR>
"Computer who sold the lot of Tranceweed?"<BR>
<BR>
COMPUTER: "The tranceweed was sold by Assistant<BR>
Broker Nguyen, Mr. Dinuli, Sir."<BR>
<BR>
DINULI: "Computer update your [engaging in sexual<BR>
congress with ones female parent] records. As of<BR>
/Dinuli pauses to check his Chronometer/ 13:19<BR>
hours 183-1115. Mr. Nguyen, that little [person<BR>
who engages in sexual congress with Vargr] is no<BR>
longer employed by this organization.<BR>
<BR>
COMPUTER: "Acknowledged. Security Bots are being <BR>
summoned. Laser weapons are being charged. The<BR>
standard Cr 100 Security fee has been deducted from<BR>
Mr Nguyen's account."<BR>
<BR>
/Mr Nguyen bolts for the door, as he exits to camera<BR>
left we hear the high pitched whine of a TL 11<BR>
laser charging/<BR>
<BR>
DINULI: "All right you [persons who prepare food for<BR>
themselves without the aid of a shugilii] now that<BR>
I have your attention. I would like to announce that<BR>
we are going to have a little sales contest for the<BR>
third quarter."<BR>
<BR>
"First prize is this round trip High Passage to Rhylanor<BR>
abord the luxury liner Pride of Glisten."<BR>
<BR>
"Second prize is this set of steak knives." /Mr Dinuli<BR>
holds up at set of 4 TL8 steak knives. The price tag on<BR>
the knives says Cr 3./<BR>
<BR>
"Third prize is You're fired. Any questions? Than get to<BR>
work closing some sales you worthless [female genetalia]."<BR>
<BR>
/Dissolve cut to next scene/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:41:58 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> Hypercleats says he is interested in doing Glisten, has it been<BR>
> taken? What worlds are claimed so far? Shouldn't someone be<BR>
> keeping track, maybe posting a list on the web? Myself, I'll<BR>
> stick to working more on my Amber Class Heresy Zone when I can<BR>
> get around to it. Spring is a busy season for me.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC Glisten was "done" in one of the Digest magazines.<BR>
<BR>
Taken so far are:<BR>
  Heya/Regina            Doug Berry<BR>
  Ylaven/Lanth           Paul Campbell<BR>
  Mongo/Jewell           Glenn Goffin<BR>
  Esalin/Jewell          Luther Martin<BR>
  Wonstar/Five Sisters   Micheal Houghton<BR>
  Aster/Glisten          AB<BR>
  L'oeil d'Dieu          Robert O'Connor<BR>
  Yori/Regina            Peter Trevor<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:45:26 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Famile Spofulam Elephant Mounted PAW<BR>
<BR>
Dear Uncie,<BR>
<BR>
Weeee managed it.<BR>
<BR>
The twick was to splittie-wittie the paaackages between multiple elfants.<BR>
<BR>
Uncie, have I told you how much I like elfants ?<BR>
<BR>
Well, the first elfant gets the beeeam pointer (for 290 kiiiilos), an an an<BR>
a thiiiirty-seven point fiiive connimeter diiiiameter circular pawsie-wasie<BR>
that is threeeeee meters long from the point of viiiiew of the paaaaarticle<BR>
(six hunnderd an siiiixty kiiilos) an an an a hunnderd sixty kiiiiilos of<BR>
accumuloator.<BR>
<BR>
This is wheresie where I have a pwooooblem, but but but I have two<BR>
soluuutions.<BR>
<BR>
If if if elfant mounted pawsie-wasies neeeeed a cawwiage, then then then<BR>
that masses one point one one tons, an an an the first elfant gets to cawwy<BR>
two point two two tons, an an an each lap adds a hunnderd kiiiilojoules to<BR>
the ouuuutput.<BR>
<BR>
If it doesnt wusnt, then then then we add another four hunnder an an an<BR>
eighty kiiilos of accumuuulator, which we'll deal with laaaaaaater.<BR>
<BR>
Nummer twoooo through fiiiiive elfants get twoooo tons of battery-watteries<BR>
with a diiischarge time of thiiirty siiix seconds.<BR>
<BR>
Now, the paaaaarticle is goanna goanna goaanna go around twenny five<BR>
thousand six hunnder times, so so so it comes out the other endie-wend at at<BR>
at a paaace that with all it's fwends should should shouldiie should<BR>
punchie-wunchie a cennimeter of super-duper dense qwiiiite nicely. I dont<BR>
like people who hurt elfants.<BR>
<BR>
If if iffie if we can have more acuuuumulator (like maybe six hunnder forty<BR>
kiiilos total) then then then each lappie-wappie will be for four hunnder<BR>
kilojouuuules an an an that means that we only need to send it round sixteen<BR>
hunnerd times. This means we oooonly need elfant two for the battery<BR>
paaaack.<BR>
<BR>
So so so twenny five thousand six hunnder cycles at at at a hunnerd<BR>
kilojoules a time is is is twenny five hunnderd an sixty meeegawatt seconds.<BR>
An an an four elfants each cawwying twoo tons of thiiirty siiix seconds will<BR>
pwoivde twenny eight eighty megawatts for for for thiiirty siiiix seconds.<BR>
<BR>
That should get us at least oooone good shot at the people trying to hurt<BR>
the elfants, if if if alll the caaaables are set up wight.<BR>
<BR>
If if if if weeee dont need a cawwiage, then then then weeee only need six<BR>
hunnderd an forty megawatt seconds. An an an that should give us one shot<BR>
per elfant battewy.<BR>
<BR>
Weee think that an elfant battewy pack costs costs costs six kiwocwedits, an<BR>
an an the basic elfant PAW costs thiiirty-six kilocweidts, plus four<BR>
kilocwedits for eeeextra acccuuuumulator or two kiiilocwedits for the<BR>
cawwiage.<BR>
<BR>
The Pawsie-wasie has a theoretical effectif wange of ten point siiix<BR>
kiwometers in a staaandard or deeense atmofere, an an an it has a<BR>
diiischarge energy of siiixteen megawatts, which shouldie-shouldie should<BR>
should puuunch a cennimeter of suuuperdense with some weeeet-bix left over.<BR>
<BR>
I think we should sell these to all planets with elfants. Togevver with<BR>
sooome niiice rugs to put under the elfants so so so theiiir backs dont gett<BR>
tooo hot from the Pawsie-wasie fiiiring.<BR>
<BR>
An an an get a sixth elfant with loooots of cold waaaaater to spray over the<BR>
number one elfant. They liiiiiike that.<BR>
<BR>
Your loving cousin,<BR>
<BR>
Ditzie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*******************************************<BR>
<BR>
Damage value is 29. I'd like someone to rate this thing under Bruce<BR>
Macintosh's MCS.<BR>
<BR>
Ditzie loves elephants. Does TAS realise the scale of the risk they are<BR>
taking, insuring all those big game hunters ?<BR>
<BR>
Ian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:57:27 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:40:01   Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>ObSpelling: Is it grays or greys? :)<BR>
<BR>
Pretty sure its graise.....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:58:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Elephant-mounted PA Weapon Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> OK, guys, can someone please tell me the minimum PAW damage value that will<BR>
> hurt your average AF20 starship. The plan for the elephant mounted PAW is<BR>
> basically to give raiders the shock of their life - they do a hit-and-run on<BR>
> the local lo-tech world, but come under PAW fire from the hills surrounding<BR>
> the capital.<BR>
<BR>
Steal a few pages from Poul Anderson's "The High Crusade". Use a *big*<BR>
trebuchet to lob a small tacnuke. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:59:17 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> I'd suggest some sort of District 268 peace conference, held on Collace.<BR>
> Players can be from the Imperium, Sword Worlds, Darrians, a Zhodani<BR>
> Proconsul, the Trexalon Techncal Corp and a couple of Aslan clans. Plus<BR>
> the various Indies, Corps and Free Traders. Run it as a 2 session game,<BR>
> with a half hour of game time representing an hour of real time - time<BR>
> lag in getting orders and such back to head office.<BR>
<BR>
My only slight problem with this is that it has been done before.<BR>
<BR>
It would certainly work, and be fun, which is the main thing.  The District<BR>
268 setting is a good idea.<BR>
<BR>
It's just that the peace conference idea feels a little generic.  I don't<BR>
have a better idea at the moment, but something a little less "talking<BR>
heads" might be better, if a little harder to pull off.<BR>
<BR>
Still, it would be cool to watch the Zhodani Proconsul Darth Vadering his<BR>
way into the room.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.  Maybe it's the launch for FS's latest atroc^h^h^h^h^hproduct, and the<BR>
players are security officials, spies and crash-test dummies, as well as<BR>
diplomats.  But this would require staking out a "map", and would be much<BR>
harder to run.<BR>
<BR>
Might have to go with the talking heads after all.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:00:34 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
<BR>
> From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
> I would like to do something like this, but I think time is the killer<BR>
> for me... and I'm only on the Gold Coast.  The Tanalorn people in<BR>
> Brisbane several years ago wanted me to host a Traveller game (any<BR>
> incarnation) for them at BrisCon before the committee went bad, but at<BR>
> the time I was interested only in taking my group up for AD&D (no-one<BR>
> attached to the Brisbane Con and game groups did ANYTHING Traveller apart<BR>
> from myself) stuff "as a group" so I didn't have time.  But going by<BR>
> suggestions from them, I feel Traveller would be made welcome by the Con<BR>
> committees (Maelstrom being the best Con in Bris at the moment).  If I<BR>
> can trace an e-mail addy - I lost touch recently - I'll pass it on if you<BR>
> like??<BR>
<BR>
I got asked (last year) if I wanted to run Traveller this year by people on<BR>
the Maelstrom committee, but I couldn't.  <BR>
<BR>
There's a couple of Freeforms/LARPS in the Maelstrom brochure thingie.<BR>
<BR>
I tend to hang around with the people from Brisbane Independent Gamers, who<BR>
are mostly miniatures players, rather than roleplayers.  They used to be<BR>
part of BrisCon, rather than Maelstrom, back when the two cons were<BR>
competing.  Brisbane games club politics can be quite poisonous at times. <BR>
It doesn't help when they're lined up with various games shops either.<BR>
<BR>
At the moment I'm in Toowoomba - even further away than the Coast.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:28:00 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) posted:<BR>
><BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:01:20 +1000, "Scout Harris"<BR>
><scout.harry@eudoramail.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46   Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Mounted on the trunk, of course, so that it will be<BR>
completely directional.<BR>
><BR>
>What if the elephant sneezes?<BR>
<BR>
SPLOOORT!<BR>
<BR>
dANng &t   wwwwHeere's my sp[are kyb0@rd<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:33:01 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris posted:<BR>
><BR>
>- --<BR>
><BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:22:36   Pete wrote:<BR>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:01:20 +1000, "Scout Harris"<BR>
>><scout.harry@eudoramail.com> wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46   Katharine Whitchurch<BR>
wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>>Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Mounted on the trunk, of course, so that it will be<BR>
completely directional.<BR>
>><BR>
>>What if the elephant sneezes?<BR>
><BR>
>Worse, what if it sneezes while scratching its butt?<BR>
<BR>
SPLOOORRTT!<BR>
<BR>
0 gaWd stOp pls stOp im @ut f kyb0@rds<BR>
<BR>
(ROFLMAO)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:50:00 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches Map<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 3:37, Peter Miller wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hi,<BR>
> <BR>
> Is there a map of the Spinward Marches online somewhere that has basically<BR>
> all of the data that was on the one in the Megatraveller map?<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, does anyone know where one can get a copy of the Galactic <BR>
> program?  All of the sites I try and get it from are broken links for some<BR>
> reason.<BR>
<BR>
Try going to: http://members.aol.com/jimvassila<BR>
<BR>
Once there follow the links to Jim's programs, including Gal 2.4<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:50:00 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Mar 00, at 18:51, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- Jens Rydholm <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
> >Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
> >> Doesn't look like any thread is going to leave that department for very<BR>
> >> long :-) Alright, has anyone done up a list of "legendary potables" for<BR>
> >> their Traveller Universe? What about cannon drinks?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >* Pan-galactic gargle-blaster<BR>
> ><BR>
> >* Gin & Tonic  (or something pronounced in a similiar fashion)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >* Old Janx Spirit<BR>
> <BR>
> Personally, I prefer Sirian (sometimes spelled "Syrian") Panther Sweat,<BR>
> from the "Stainless Steel Rat" books....<BR>
<BR>
Trax spirit from _Against a Dark Background_. But avoid the cloudy <BR>
stuff.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:02:17 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------<BR>
Click here for Free Video!!<BR>
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 10:00 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav Freeforms...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I got asked (last year) if I wanted to run Traveller this year by people<BR>
on<BR>
> the Maelstrom committee, but I couldn't.<BR>
<BR>
Pity you couldn't... I've just realised that I haven't attended the Con<BR>
since a look-in at the last BrisCon before the politics took over.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> There's a couple of Freeforms/LARPS in the Maelstrom brochure thingie.<BR>
<BR>
Excellent!  Now I'll have to make an effort to recontact them - what seems<BR>
like only a year has turned out to be a few years!!  Damn I have been so<BR>
busy, the real world sucks some times.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I tend to hang around with the people from Brisbane Independent Gamers,<BR>
who<BR>
> are mostly miniatures players, rather than roleplayers.  They used to be<BR>
> part of BrisCon, rather than Maelstrom, back when the two cons were<BR>
> competing.  Brisbane games club politics can be quite poisonous at times.<BR>
> It doesn't help when they're lined up with various games shops either.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, something I tried to keep out of... and as a contestant at several<BR>
former BrisCon's, I had seen the tension between the table topper's and the<BR>
role players - something I never quite understood in Queensland.  I never<BR>
heard the same stories about other cities, but I never asked I suppose?<BR>
There are quite a lot of cross-over players, but there are some real<BR>
hard-core ones too.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> At the moment I'm in Toowoomba - even further away than the Coast.<BR>
<BR>
Bugger, the tyranny of distance.  I get to Brissie one weekend a month<BR>
minimum - not often more, but for a totally different social thing that also<BR>
involves the missus, so I don't usually have time to be social with the<BR>
gaming scene, mores the pity.  I would have loved to help with a LARP with<BR>
you, but we are "twice the distance apart" (in a sense) and with time<BR>
restraints...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2133<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2134</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2134<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
New from Maalirin Industrie<BR>
Penquins and Elephants and Swallows, OH MY!<BR>
Re: An Amusing Gearheaded Quote<BR>
Re: Closers<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Secondary industries from X-Boat links (long)<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
RE: OT Lord Kelvin<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Greece<BR>
RE: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:01:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> At 05:15 AM 3/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >In contrary to your posts,Grammarboy.<BR>
> <BR>
> That's it. John Hamilton has shown is his last few<BR>
> posts thaty he is a<BR>
> troll, just trying to piss us of for his own<BR>
> amuesment. <BR>
> <BR>
> A meesage will be sent to his ISP complaining about<BR>
> this behavoir if it<BR>
> doesn't stop in the next 24 hours. Mr. Hamilton, the<BR>
> ball is in your court.<BR>
> You can play with the grown ups, or you can continue<BR>
> to be an ass.<BR>
<BR>
I always knew that you would go from insulting to<BR>
pathethic threats sooner or later.It's funny how you<BR>
are constantly insult people and then accuse them of<BR>
doing it.Funny,if in a pathetic way(BUT IT SUITS<BR>
YOU).You deserve all pity you can get.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the mispellings but my laughter about you<BR>
kept me from paying attention to grammar.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:19:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
I plan to put my PC against something like a minor<BR>
army of presumptious horsemeat during the next few<BR>
weeks.(I presumably watched to much Waterworld and<BR>
Aliens)<BR>
However,there isn't much available about their<BR>
military,and it's weaknesses.So when 7 PCs face  a few<BR>
1000 Mr Eds,how can they get some results?<BR>
<BR>
Well,fighting on their own terms,the K'kree carpetbomb<BR>
even the smallest unit from space,then finish them off<BR>
with some rather clumsy ,neurotic ground troops.So<BR>
,for a group of players,the lack of anything<BR>
significant between those approaches (Grav tanks and<BR>
similar( yes,they have them,but they are huge and they<BR>
lack pilots for those)) can be the road of escape.<BR>
So how do you prevent beeing bombed?<BR>
(Exept taking the action to the K'kree base)<BR>
Does the sight of half-eaten (by the PCs) K'kree<BR>
cadavers (perhaps roasted ) unbalance troops enough to<BR>
make them easier prey?<BR>
And what about Psi?<BR>
Is there something like a K'kree teleporter,since<BR>
they're quite massive?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:19:57 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: New from Maalirin Industrie<BR>
<BR>
Got pirates?  Obnoxious freight conglomorates?  Or just want<BR>
to keep a lid on wayward ships and would-be revolutionaries?<BR>
Then what you need is a deep meson site...<BR>
<BR>
Introducing the new Corsair-B-Gon, by Maalirin Industrie, LIC.<BR>
An affordably-priced emplacement for worlds that need to watch<BR>
their budget.<BR>
<BR>
What is it?  In short, it is a 50 meter barrel with a 4 meter<BR>
bore, rotating freely in a twenty-thousand cubic meter spherical<BR>
cavern paved with contragrav units.  It delivers a 400 MJ 'tap'<BR>
to any offender up to 50,000 km distant, and can even reach<BR>
out further (up to 500,000 km) with a not-too-shabby 366 MJ<BR>
wake-up call.<BR>
<BR>
It comes with its own power supply (a modest 6300 MW Fusion+<BR>
power plant), which enables it to fire thrice per minute.<BR>
Installation is free with full purchase, which includes a<BR>
team of engineers who will plant your new site 10 kilometers<BR>
underground.  The package also includes accomodations and<BR>
equipment for the crew (95 persons) and includes the best<BR>
computing machinery available at TL12.  Sensors are not <BR>
included.  MI suggests a bevy of sensors be attached to <BR>
mobile units to prevent triangulation and loss of effectiveness.<BR>
<BR>
All this, for only MCr100 (retail).<BR>
<BR>
For the truly budget-minded, we can simply set this machine<BR>
up on the surface of your planet.  If you have enough of<BR>
these weapons, perhaps concealment isn't an issue.  Without<BR>
tunneling, the retail price drops to MCr65.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
FFS2 Stats:<BR>
<BR>
Name: Maaliriin 50/12 "Corsair-B-Gon" Meson Site       MCr100<BR>
Fuel: L-Hyd, 2m^3 per hour of operation.<BR>
Crew: 95 (mostly engineers and command staff)<BR>
<BR>
   Range band   Intensity   Damage<BR>
        9         444         105<BR>
       10         400         100<BR>
       11         363          95<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
This product was designed using FFS2, pencil, paper, and a<BR>
calculator.  Caveat emptor.  What does that damage number<BR>
really mean?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
50m tunnel  :    400 MJ  200m^3  bore=4m^2, mass=150t  MCr20<BR>
Beam pointer: 50,000 km  1.3m^3              1.3 tons  MCr0.13<BR>
Computer-12 :    3 MW      8m^3  CP=2.86     0.8 tons  MCr0.4<BR>
<BR>
Cavern      : Radius=27.5 m, Volume = 20,797 m^3<BR>
   Lift CG  : 207,970 kN  416m^3  270 tons  (145MW)    MCr4<BR>
<BR>
Energy      : 2000 MJ   ROF=3<BR>
Power plant : 6300 MW   1312m^3  6300m^2    2624 tons  MCr13<BR>
              consumption = 2m^3 per hour<BR>
<BR>
Surface Access : 36m x 10,000m   MCr10<BR>
Tunneling costs: MCr38<BR>
<BR>
Total Crew: 95 people  665m^3 workstations   mass=19t MCr0.14<BR>
   Living area: 4275m^3<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:32:11 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net><BR>
Subject: Penquins and Elephants and Swallows, OH MY!<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:16:51<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: New stuff from FS?<BR>
<BR>
>At 05:18 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Dear Ditzie: with reference to the foregoing, please advise as to the<BR>
>>feasibility of elephant-mounted PA weapons for export purposes.  Given<BR>
the<BR>
>>target market, assume that the mounts will have to be a) serviceable by<BR>
>>barbarians, b) TL-2/3, and c) flameproof.  You might want to look into<BR>
>>flameproofing the elephants as well, and investigating their response to<BR>
>>the usual array of chemical performance enhancers.<BR>
<BR>
>Why do I picture a pen filled with elephants, all cowering in obvious<BR>
>terror in a corner as a small girl wlks towards them...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Please also take into account the difference in load-carrying ability<BR>
>>between Indian and African subspecies of elephants.<BR>
<BR>
>What about Swallows?<BR>
>- -- <BR>
<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
WARNING!!!<BR>
Activate BPBG(Beverage Proof Black Globe) now!<BR>
<BR>
X-TEK of Deneb, LIC NewsPost<BR>
<BR>
First the Gridlore Commando Penguin...<BR>
Then the FS Carthaginian War Elephant...<BR>
<BR>
Now the X-TEK Swallow Assault Transport!<BR>
<BR>
X-TEK R&D at a top-secret(FNORD) research facility is now working on a<BR>
covert delivery system.<BR>
This system will be able to transport a coconut or more preferably a<BR>
HHG-15 Fusion Grenade (Affectionately known by assault troops as the "Holy<BR>
Hand Grenade") across great tracts of land.<BR>
<BR>
So far the R&D team is uncertain whether an African or European swallow<BR>
should be used, as African swallows are non-migratory.  Attempts to<BR>
geneticaly re-engineer the swallows into a hybred have been met with<BR>
problems.<BR>
<BR>
It is thought that the elusive Sylean swallow could be a viable<BR>
alternative.  X-TEK is offering a 1000cr per bird bounty on these elusive<BR>
creatures.<BR>
<BR>
X-TEK would like it to be known that these birds will not be harmed in any<BR>
way.  The sole purpose is for breeding and cross breeding of the species.<BR>
<BR>
No birds, elephants, or small children have been harmed in the making of<BR>
this newspost.<BR>
<BR>
<END TRANSMISSION><BR>
<BR>
\  // Commander X<BR>
 \//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
T E K  Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //\  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm<BR>
//  \ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:39:45 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: An Amusing Gearheaded Quote<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, James W. Lindsay wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Why Gearheads Don't Write Recipe Books<BR>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
> <BR>
> Chocolate Chip Cookies:<BR>
<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAOSCAD!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, I'm dyin' here!<BR>
<BR>
Worse...the damn thing made _perfect_ sense to me! Guess we all know what<BR>
I am, now. (As IF there was ever any doubt! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
BTW:<BR>
<BR>
> NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE! NOTICE!<BR>
<BR>
Memo: Retrofitting CCC manufacturing methods<BR>
To: Central Research, Cookie Engineering<BR>
From: Plant Engineering Research<BR>
CC: Marketing, Plant Control<BR>
 <BR>
While use of the air insulated dual sheet was shown to be optimal under<BR>
limited pilot production runs, field testing at manufacturing locations<BR>
LW21C-Bravo and HJ-554-A-Delta have shown that retrofitting all facilities<BR>
to use this new reactor material will be prohibitively expensive. moreover<BR>
we have found that a simple alteration of oven temperature (445 K rather<BR>
than 460 k) with concommittent increase in oven reaction time produces a<BR>
satisfactory product yield without the carbon formation noted in the<BR>
laboratory. <BR>
<BR>
In addition, it was found that the 316SS sheets used in<BR>
production facilities were, on the average, 225% (+/- 15%) thicker than<BR>
the ones used in the pilot facilities. The increased thermal mass of these<BR>
sheets allowed for a slower heat transfer to the product. Coupled with the<BR>
lower reaction temperatures, the final product exhibited no carbon<BR>
formation, as well as the increased elastic modulus that Marketing has<BR>
indicated is more popular with end-users.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com> wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> > > No, there are plenty of closers in my Traveller universe of all<BR>
> > > species (but I suspect that you are talking about completely<BR>
> > > different things).<BR>
> <BR>
> > Duh. I don't know what either of you are talking about. Uh. What's a<BR>
> > "closer"? I think something just flew over my head.<BR>
> <BR>
> [See scene below]<BR>
> <BR>
> The Brokerage Offices of Spinward Development<BR>
> [Fulacin/Spinward Marches]<BR>
> <BR>
> /Fade in to an office, about Trav TL 11, with five<BR>
> sophonts in it./<BR>
> <BR>
> DINULI:	"Listen up you little [male generative members],<BR>
> our profits are only up by 7% for the second quarter, and <BR>
> I'm [past tense of urination]. I want to know which of you<BR>
> [excrement] heads thought it was a good idea to sell<BR>
> that 2 (displacement) ton lot of Faldorian Tranceweed<BR>
> for only Cr 210,000!"<BR>
> <BR>
> "Oh wait, don't bother talking at once, you worthless<BR>
> [acts of sexual intercourse, plural]."<BR>
<BR>
Wow! Ecept for the mild language, it sounds just like the opening scene<BR>
from Glenglarry Glen Ross ;-) <BR>
<BR>
Any PC of mine would nuke the place from orbit, and the surrounding<BR>
continent, just to be sure. I worked in a place like that for a week<BR>
once...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:46:07 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
>>>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
>>>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
>>>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
>> 	IMTU, nothing at all.  As someone else posted, the jump drive is<BR>
>> 	designed to push a ship out of n-space and has no effect in jump<BR>
>> 	space.<BR>
>Ah, but the second jump drive wouldn't *be* in jump space... it would be<BR>
>inside the bubble of n-space.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Sure it would, IMTU.  As I mentioned earlier, IMTU the jump drive<BR>
	pushes the starship out of n-space and then shuts down.  The ship<BR>
	then drifts through j-space for about a week, without any functioning<BR>
	jump drive.  There is no bubble.  YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:44:04 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Secondary industries from X-Boat links (long)<BR>
<BR>
This is a response to a request seen on the TML yesterday, regarding<BR>
what secondary industries one would expect to see springing up once<BR>
an X-Boat route starts passing through a star system.<BR>
<BR>
While I don't recall when the original discussion took place - and I am<BR>
almost certainly distilling several threads into a MTU package - I'll try<BR>
and set forth what to expect. IMO, YTUMV<BR>
<BR>
The secondary industries should include Fuel Supply, Ship Maintenance,<BR>
Information Services and Transfer Facilities.<BR>
<BR>
Fuel Supply: considering the fuel supplies on a standard X-Boat Tender,<BR>
it follows that each Tender will have one to several fuel shuttles making<BR>
runs between a local fuel source and the Tender's area of operations.<BR>
These shuttles will need a base of operations, probably the main world...<BR>
and if another body in the system is more convenient, *that other body<BR>
may become the new main world*[1]. The fuel shuttles based from the<BR>
main world can easily service basic merchant traffic, and if they start<BR>
making money supplying merchant fuel then there will be more fuel<BR>
shuttles, then eventually a local fuel processing station, and the process <BR>
continues until the location has a full-fledged fuel supply system in place.<BR>
<BR>
Ship Maintenance Facilities: These will tend to grow from the needs of<BR>
the Fuel Shuttles. Originally, these shuttles will be part of the Scout<BR>
Communications Branch establishment, and will be serviced either<BR>
in the Tenders or at a local Scout Base. Once the fuel supply service is <BR>
contracted out to commercial interests and starts growing to accomodate <BR>
merchant traffic, private maintenance facilities will need to be added. Since <BR>
you are building maintenance facilities anyway, it's a moderate addition to<BR>
make them available at profit to the merchant ships coming by. At<BR>
first, it will just be repair teams dispatched by shuttle...eventually, it<BR>
will be full fledged repair bays, some of which may (local resources and<BR>
markets permitting) be upgraded from repair capabilites to contruction.<BR>
<BR>
Information Services: The whole point of the X-Boat route is transfer<BR>
of information. Messages coming to every world within a couple parsecs<BR>
of the X-Boat station stop in this system for transfer. Many companies<BR>
and megacorp facilities on these backwater worlds - and even some<BR>
governments - will establish offices at the X-Boat station, so that their<BR>
designated representatives can get the information two or more weeks<BR>
early and, in some cases, send a response out along the link immediately.<BR>
Once these offices are in place, they can act as administrative facilities<BR>
for the company's or government's investigation of local resources and<BR>
opportunities as well. And don't forget Financial Services - expect every<BR>
bank and brokerage house within three parsecs to have offices, or at<BR>
least a representative, at the nearest X-Boat station, even if the station<BR>
is nothing but a satellite orbiting a small rock.<BR>
<BR>
Transfer Facilities: Once Fuel and Maintenance facilities are available,<BR>
expect long distance freight and passenger liners (Jump-4 or so) to start <BR>
moving through this system. The infrastructure is growing there to support <BR>
them, the systems have increased Imperial attention and should thus be <BR>
safer to travel through, and navigational data through these systems should<BR>
quickly become some of the best available. These liners are the kind that<BR>
you'd use to travel from Rhylanor to Core, with as few changes of ship<BR>
as possible, so it's more important to the shipping company to have a<BR>
dependable route over sector-wide distances than it is to have the<BR>
absolute best ports of call at every fuel stop. Now, even though the<BR>
Liners aren't planning major business at the X-Boat station, business<BR>
*will* occur. Cargos and people will come from backwater worlds to meet<BR>
the long-distance liners, and people will take the long-distance liners<BR>
to get to backwater worlds. Either way, transfer facilities will spring up.<BR>
Cargo handling stations. Freight warehouses. Hotels. Even regular<BR>
merchant runs from the X-Boat station to nearby worlds (Feeder Lines)!<BR>
<BR>
These were the major boosts to the local economy we could come up<BR>
with resulting from an X-Boat route. The route will *encourage* such<BR>
industries to pop up, but if local trade doesn't respond to these<BR>
services being available then these secondary industries will stay small.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
Footnotes:<BR>
[1] It is entirely possible for changing economic conditions to change<BR>
which world in a system is the "main world". Perhaps a zuchai crystal<BR>
mine on a hostile planet (the original main world) played out while X-Boat <BR>
fuel facilities (and other services) were attracting colonists on a gas giant<BR>
moon. The mining world may become nearly abandoned, while the<BR>
gas giant moon may undergo a population explosion.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:49:47 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm not sure, but I may have started this "jumpspace is deadly" thing about 3 <BR>
> AM at a convention many many years ago. <BR>
<BR>
snip<BR>
 <BR>
> I think my answer was something like "everyone dies a horrible death -- go <BR>
> away and lemme sleep!" punctuated with a few obscenities . . . <BR>
<BR>
I just had this weird flash:<BR>
<BR>
The ship's computer has sabotaged things, and the only surviving<BR>
crewmember Dave Bowmanii leans out of the air lock and says <BR>
<BR>
"Oh, my GOD! It's full of [obscenities]!<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:53:07 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
> > Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I pity the poor PC's who get _that_ shipment contract!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Plain brown shipping crates (I suspect _everything_ FS ships goes in plain<BR>
> > brown wrappers ;-) marked in stencil: FS-DFG HANDLE WITH CARE THIS SIDE<BR>
> > UP.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> What does the DFG stand for ?<BR>
<BR>
Ditzies Favorite Goop, what someone christened the hypergolic fuel mix for<BR>
the jet-bike posted earlier.<BR>
<BR>
A ghods it's fine having the Famille back!!<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:55:53 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman writes:<BR>
>> I have often toyed with the idea of making some Atm B-C due to very low<BR>
>> temperatures.<BR>
>> Of course, rather than Atm B-C representing chemical reactivity or extreme<BR>
>> cold, it could be interpreted as extreme heat.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>By its definitions Exotic atmospheres will not have a<BR>
>fairly normal temperature & pressure range.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Low Temperature -25 to -200 C<BR>
>High Temperature 50+ C<BR>
>Extreme temperatures are at the upper and lower ends of the<BR>
>temperature scale<BR>
<BR>
	It has always been my understanding that Exotic atmospheres (type A)<BR>
	require only an oxygen mask.  Thus, IMTU such atmospheres have the<BR>
	same temperature and pressure range that I allow Atm 2-9.<BR>
<BR>
>For Insidious atmospheres it suggest similar to<BR>
>Corrosive but more so, and/or containing free Hydrogen,<BR>
>Extreme Temperature (Venus) or high Radiation levels.<BR>
<BR>
	How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:58:23 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: OT Lord Kelvin<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>> k = kilo<BR>
>> C = Celsius<BR>
>> K = Calvin<BR>
>K = Kelvin (after Lord Kelvin, who did a lot of early work in<BR>
>    Thermodynamics)<BR>
<BR>
"Lord Kelvin, the second most distinguished Scottish physicist of the 19th<BR>
century, was fond of asserting that until we can measure something we have<BR>
no idea what we are talking about (Thomson 1889, 73). It was also Lord<BR>
Kelvin who cast grave doubts on Darwin's theory of natural selection by<BR>
proving that the earth was less than a hundred million years old (thus<BR>
proving that even when we can measure something we may still not know what<BR>
we are talking about) (Burchfield 1975)."<BR>
<BR>
from _Measuring Sexual Selection: Why Bother?_ by A. Grafen<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 05:17:08 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Anyway, if we had decided there _was_ another universe with planets and stuff<BR>
>there, we'd just have to describe and map it<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>and that way lies madness.<BR>
<BR>
Nope! That way lies profits ;-)<BR>
Imagine Traveller Planescape, untold universes, untold adventures, to <BR>
boldly traverse where no Ancient has seeded stardrives before ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 05:29:26 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The info at the CORE site (which is Jo Grant's site) was generate by Jo, <BR>
>but may not be canonical. (Is that a word?). What you need to find is the <BR>
>DGP/HIWG data files (which are co-incident with AoI data) and are at a <BR>
>number of sites. Bruce Johnson's has them IIRC and so does the Missouri <BR>
>Archive.<BR>
><BR>
>Incidently, the official CORE site will go live soon. This will contain <BR>
>details of all products produced by the CORE Product development group, <BR>
>along with authors and artists bios and other material such as errata and <BR>
>unpublished support material.<BR>
COOL! In Capitals!<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 05:30:35 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Taken so far are:<BR>
>   Heya/Regina            Doug Berry<BR>
>   Ylaven/Lanth           Paul Campbell<BR>
>   Mongo/Jewell           Glenn Goffin<BR>
>   Esalin/Jewell          Luther Martin<BR>
>   Wonstar/Five Sisters   Micheal Houghton<BR>
>   Aster/Glisten          AB<BR>
>   L'oeil d'Dieu          Robert O'Connor<BR>
>   Yori/Regina            Peter Trevor<BR>
Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor         Volker Greimann<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:10:38 +1200<BR>
From: a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz<BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
> >>>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
> >>>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
> >>>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
<BR>
I'm seem to recall a Challange article (Project Farstar? or something <BR>
similar) dealing with this exact thing. I believe (and please remember I'm <BR>
working from memory here) that the likely results were (in order of <BR>
probability):<BR>
<BR>
1 - A rather large bang and everyone dies horribly<BR>
2 - A rather large bang and everyone probably dies horribly<BR>
3 - The ship disappears into jump space, never to be seen again<BR>
4 - Nothing happends, but both Jump drives mutate into rather large <BR>
extremely radioactive paperweights (see 2)<BR>
5 - Nothing happens<BR>
6 - The ship jumps normally at the highest number being used (ie J3 + <J3 <BR>
= J3)<BR>
7 - The jump fields sum (ie J3 + J3 = J6)<BR>
8 - The jump fields multiply (ie J3 + J3 = J9)<BR>
9 - The jump fields work exponetially (ie J3 + J3 = J27)<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, Options 6 through 9 required the jump fields to be absolutely <BR>
precisely alligned and a good deal of pure luck.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:11:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
As president of the Alston League I hearbye claim the entire Banners Sector.<BR>
One world just isn't enough for me.<BR>
No I promise I am not a megalomaniac, well perhaps just a bit.<BR>
<BR>
In any case I have been posting the details to my website. The sector may<BR>
not be canonical but apart from a listing of what looked like random systems<BR>
on a site I cannot find anymore I could not find any information other than<BR>
names and starplacements for three small states. (Two Aslan, possible, and 1<BR>
human)<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:11:11 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Greece<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 4:12 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Charter Internatioanal wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > http://www.sailinggreece.com<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Discount Travel in Greece, Italy, and Mediterranean.<BR>
><BR>
> What do y'all think?<BR>
><BR>
> Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the<BR>
> spammer?<BR>
><BR>
> (Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That<BR>
> Wouldn't Die.)<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
Actually I think that a treatice on the econimics of space piracy may be<BR>
good.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:11:09 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris<BR>
> Seamans<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 11:31 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Sorry Eris, you're not a heretic after all.  Thanks<BR>
> > to Mr. Farrell's modest little post, it just hit me<BR>
> > with full force:<BR>
Insert, as the Modest Mr Farrell (Antony)which of my modest posts did this<BR>
refer to?<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
> > Traveller Heresy is Canonical.<BR>
><BR>
> Yep, which is why I said, a few months back, that I was a heretic<BR>
> by way of<BR>
> Classic Traveller fundamentalism. If you go back to the source, the<BR>
> Traveller universe looks very different.<BR>
><BR>
> These days I'm just a garden variety heretic.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2134<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2135<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Sayat website missing ... conspiracy?<BR>
John Hamilton and Doug Berry!<BR>
The TML 2000 Landgrab - Sources of Published Information<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Existing Article Request<BR>
Traveller News Service<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: John Hamilton and Doug Berry!<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2107<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
RE: Greece<BR>
RE: Penquins and Elephants and Swallows, OH MY!<BR>
Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:14:56 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>I plan to put my PC against something like a minor army of presumptious <BR>
>horsemeat during the next few weeks.(I presumably watched to much <BR>
>Waterworld and Aliens) However,there isn't much available about their<BR>
>military,and it's weaknesses.So when 7 PCs face  a few 1000 Mr Eds,<BR>
>how can they get some results?<BR>
<BR>
Have a *major* tech level advantage, or run away. How would you expect<BR>
a squad of humans to win against a battalion of humans? A battalion of<BR>
K'Kree should be about as capable as a similar tech battalion of humans,<BR>
with fewer discipline problems and more expensive vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
john again:<BR>
>Well,fighting on their own terms,the K'kree carpetbomb even the smallest <BR>
>unit from space,then finish them off with some rather clumsy ,neurotic <BR>
>ground troops.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think they could *find* a unit of seven people from space, much<BR>
less carpet bomb them - unless the players are travelling in a vehicle,<BR>
or otherwise make themselves obvious. Hiding is one of the few advantages<BR>
to having only a handful of people.<BR>
<BR>
As for "clumsy": these "clumsy" troops can carry a personal weapon<BR>
that we'd only use as a tripod (or at least bipod) mounted support weapon.<BR>
Size has it's advantages.<BR>
<BR>
The "neuroses" can give you a bit of a handle. K'Kree don't like tight<BR>
spaces, and don't like being alone. This can direct you towards limits<BR>
on their tactics.  For example, they'll tend not to be good at ambushing <BR>
people. Also, if you can crack their internal security systems, their base<BR>
will have *no* live security patrols of access passages and other small<BR>
spaces - if you can keep their robots and sensors from reporting your <BR>
presence, you can move through any of these spaces with impunity.<BR>
<BR>
>Does the sight of half-eaten (by the PCs) K'kree cadavers (perhaps<BR>
>roasted ) unbalance troops enough to make them easier prey?<BR>
<BR>
If rock-breaking anger makes them easier prey, sure. You might as well<BR>
try such mind game atrocities against them, it's not like they weren't<BR>
going to kill you out-of-hand at first opportunity anyway.<BR>
<BR>
john again:<BR>
>And what about Psi? Is there something like a K'kree teleporter,since<BR>
>they're quite massive?<BR>
<BR>
I read the K'Kree alien module ages ago, I can't recall anything about<BR>
psionics in K'Kree society at all. I'd hazard a guess that a K'Kree<BR>
psionic could teleport, since teleportation for humans doesn't seem<BR>
to depend on body mass.<BR>
<BR>
Psionics might be less well developed in K'Kree culture, since it<BR>
requires action so much on one's own - K'Kree aren't much for that<BR>
kind of thing. <BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:21:15 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: Sayat website missing ... conspiracy?<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know where the writeup of the Sayat has gone (it used<BR>
to be on Geocities, I believe).<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:28:04 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: John Hamilton and Doug Berry!<BR>
<BR>
Please guys, do us all a favor and:<BR>
<BR>
	a) - put each others names on your killfiles, that way you dont need to <BR>
get upset<BR>
		if you dont like what you see, as you wont see it.<BR>
	b) - Take the grammar/personal Insult/Help I have been wrongfully treated <BR>
- - bit<BR>
		offlist.<BR>
<BR>
That way, the conflict will probably die down by tomorrow instead of <BR>
lingering on for months. No need to make threats, no need to get insulting, <BR>
just ignore each other.<BR>
<BR>
Although the fact that the two of you continue to post on this threat seems <BR>
to suggest that you draw some amusement from it, otherwise you wouldnt <BR>
read each others posts. Killfile the other or go private, the TML is no <BR>
forum for this kind of [OT][Noise][CRAP].<BR>
<BR>
Please, some people pay for their downloads and seeing this just makes one <BR>
mad....<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:35:22 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Sources of Published Information<BR>
<BR>
I'm happy to compile a list of Amber Zones mentioning Spinward Marches<BR>
worlds - I have Best of JTAS 1 & 2, and JTAS 7+, which covers almost all<BR>
of them - unless this already exists somewhere?<BR>
<BR>
Mark Seemann used to have a good list of worlds for which information<BR>
had been published, with sources. The URL I have is <BR>
<BR>
        http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann/worlds.htm<BR>
<BR>
I've tried this (with and without the "2" after www) but it no longer<BR>
seems to there - anyone have a more up-to-date address, or saved the<BR>
html more recently than I have (June 97)?<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
P.S. my spellchecker suggested I replace Seemann with semen, so I'm very<BR>
glad it's not set to automatic...<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:23:55 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Existing Article Request<BR>
<BR>
Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk> wrote,<BR>
>Anyway, the relevant part in the timeline is:<BR>
><BR>
>429       Notorious pirate Mous Alhabah disappears with his treasure after<BR>
>          the Imperial Navy destroys his Ylaven (1916 Spinward Marches)<BR>
>          base. GDW, Challenge #44, p. 33.<BR>
><BR>
>And wouldn't you credit it, issue 44 was one of the few issues I missed.<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone have that issue and could they send me the relevant details,<BR>
>allowing for fair use, 1 page max, etc.<BR>
<BR>
The article was "Lost Treasure Ships of the Abyss Rift" by Mike R.<BR>
Mikesh - it describes the populist book of the same name by Enli<BR>
Iddukagan, concerning disappearing ships in a "rift" in Lanth, Vilis and<BR>
Lunion subsectors. The only worlds in the rift are Calit, Lanth, Ghandi,<BR>
Victoria, Ylaven, Sonthert and D'Ganzio. A lot of information concerns<BR>
pirate activities on nearby Skull and adventure seeds for treasure-<BR>
hunters.<BR>
<BR>
What it says about Ylaven:<BR>
"_Abyss Rift_ directs most of its attention toward treasure ships, among<BR>
them the _Naome_. During the early 400s, Mosu Alhabah maintained a<BR>
pirate base on a gas giant moon of the Ylaven system. In 429, the navy<BR>
attacked the base and recovered most of his accumulation of stolen<BR>
goods. However, Alhabah escaped in the process with the _Naome_, a<BR>
subsidized merchant, and the richest of the loot. Neither the _Naome_<BR>
nor any part of Alhabah's booty was ever found."<BR>
<BR>
If you need more info just ask.<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
>Capital/Core                  083-1117<BR>
>A press release from the Imperial Palace today confirmed that Grand Princess <BR>
>Ciencia Iphegenia left Capital with Archduchess Isis Arepo Ilethian at an <BR>
>unspecified time within the last month. "The Grand Princess and Archduchess <BR>
>are lifelong friends," the press release "and wished to spend a little more <BR>
>time together."<BR>
<BR>
Reports that the Archduchess and Grand Princess are travelling to Aslan<BR>
space in search of comfortable shoes could not be confirmed at this time.<BR>
<BR>
Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, an heir wouldn't be a problem, what with the ability to take<BR>
genetic material from Iphengia and Isis and combine it to create embryos.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry      )+(      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored with sex."<BR>
	                    - Fry, Futurama<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:26:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
At 06:19 AM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>I plan to put my PC against something like a minor<BR>
>army of presumptious horsemeat during the next few<BR>
>weeks.(I presumably watched to much Waterworld and<BR>
>Aliens)<BR>
>However,there isn't much available about their<BR>
>military,and it's weaknesses.So when 7 PCs face  a few<BR>
>1000 Mr Eds,how can they get some results?<BR>
<BR>
I've done a bit about the K'Kree in Ground Forces.. I'll give y'all a tease.<BR>
<BR>
K'Kree tactics are, as John surmised, not subtle. If necessary to<BR>
exterminate g'naack, they will gladly nuke a world until it glows.<BR>
<BR>
When ground combat is necessary, K'kree display both an amazing level of<BR>
unit cohesion and incredible selflessness. To the individual K'kree<BR>
warrior, he is simply part of the herd, and quire expendable. Facing the<BR>
K'kree in combat might be like facing the Soviet human wave attacks in<BR>
WWII, or the similar Chinese attacks in Korea. Hundreds of opponents, none<BR>
of whom seem to care that you are massacring them.<BR>
<BR>
>significant between those approaches (Grav tanks and<BR>
>similar( yes,they have them,but they are huge and they<BR>
>lack pilots for those)) can be the road of escape.<BR>
<BR>
K'Kree do have grave tank crews, but they are or questionable sanity. Most<BR>
need serious psychological training and serious drugs to perform their<BR>
duties. The K'Kree only use tanks only when absolutely necessary.<BR>
<BR>
>So how do you prevent beeing bombed?<BR>
>(Exept taking the action to the K'kree base)<BR>
>Does the sight of half-eaten (by the PCs) K'kree<BR>
>cadavers (perhaps roasted ) unbalance troops enough to<BR>
>make them easier prey?<BR>
<BR>
SPLORT! Try making them into righteous warriors of fury, devoted to hunting<BR>
you, your children, and everyone who looks or smells like you and pounding<BR>
them into a thin paste! By eating K'Kree, you basically announce "Hi! I'm<BR>
your worst nightmare given form, the legendary demon-predator G'naak<BR>
returned from the mists of time to hunt again!"<BR>
<BR>
A good analogy might be dressing up like the SS to demoralize the Israeli<BR>
Defense Force.<BR>
<BR>
>And what about Psi?<BR>
<BR>
According to all canonical sources, the K'kree don't make much use of psi.<BR>
<BR>
>Is there something like a K'kree teleporter,since<BR>
>they're quite massive?<BR>
<BR>
Teleporters? Minimum TL is 18, so not bloody likely.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
   http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com<BR>
<BR>
"A mrgs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:28:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
At 07:49 AM 3/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The ship's computer has sabotaged things, and the only surviving<BR>
>crewmember Dave Bowmanii leans out of the air lock and says <BR>
><BR>
>"Oh, my GOD! It's full of [obscenities]!<BR>
<BR>
He ended up at a Rule 6 party?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:30:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
At 12:50 PM 3/20/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike is the calm, reasoned response of a corporation<BR>
>with a keen understanding of the value of customers <BR>
<BR>
i.e.: Once we have their money, they are of no value to us.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:45:39<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 12:34 AM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I wouldn't mind doing Arden/Vilis, but since it is a capital of a small but<BR>
>influentially important "chunk" of the Spinward Marches, perhaps it should<BR>
>be left up to each referee.  Or maybe not?<BR>
<BR>
This isn't an official thing that will be set in concrete. It's just an<BR>
idea I had to get some discussion going, and to provide resources for<BR>
referees by detailing various star systems.<BR>
<BR>
>Another issue would again involve canonicity.  At what point in time would<BR>
>it be best to work with?  It appears that the Federation sure expanded fast<BR>
>between 1107 and 1116.<BR>
<BR>
Seeing as how I'm playing with star sizes, I couldn't really make a big<BR>
fuss about canon here. I think we'd all agree that diverging from canon in<BR>
an extreme way would hurt the usefulness to other list members, so no<BR>
declaring that Regina is occupied by the Zhodani. (Unless you can really<BR>
make it interesting.)<BR>
<BR>
I'd prefer that everybody use _First In_ for the mechanical workings of the<BR>
star system. Heya is going to be set in 1120, simply because that's the<BR>
default setting for the current version of Traveller. You want to do<BR>
something else? Fine with me.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:55:10 -0800<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: John Hamilton and Doug Berry!<BR>
<BR>
At 06:28 AM 3/20/00 +0100, Volker  A. Greimann wrote:<BR>
>Please guys, do us all a favor and:<BR>
><BR>
> a) - put each others names on your killfiles, that way you dont need to <BR>
>get upset<BR>
> if you dont like what you see, as you wont see it.<BR>
> b) - Take the grammar/personal Insult/Help I have been wrongfully treated <BR>
>- bit offlist.<BR>
><BR>
>Although the fact that the two of you continue to post on this thread seems <BR>
>to suggest that you draw some amusement from it, otherwise you wouldnt <BR>
>read each others posts. Killfile the other or go private, the TML is no <BR>
>forum for this kind of [OT][Noise][CRAP].<BR>
<BR>
I second the motion!<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:54:07 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
If nobody else has grabbed it, I would like Spirelle/Lunion.  I<BR>
already have a significant writeup of that world, so cleaning it<BR>
up for publication should not be too large a task.<BR>
<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:06:03 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
>>The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike is the calm, reasoned response of a <BR>
>>corporation with a keen understanding of the value of customers <BR>
><BR>
>i.e.: Once we have their money, they are of no value to us. <BR>
<BR>
Could be. I mean, it's not like they're going for repeat business.<BR>
Charred spots surrounded by a toxic haze aren't likely to be shopping<BR>
for more products any time soon. <G><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:05:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TOP 4 REASONS...<BR>
<BR>
At 06:11 AM 3/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>At 17:28 19.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>That be said, I'm the son of an Englishman, a devoted student of history,<BR>
>>and am probably the only person in history to ask the nice folks in<BR>
>>#iceland to translate a .sig file.<BR>
><BR>
>I this a question regarding _my_ .sig-lines?<BR>
<BR>
Naw, I went out to that channel to get my Sword Worlds .sig translated into<BR>
correct Icelandic, then discovered InterTran for other uses.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:13:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
At 03:43 AM 3/20/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Working on my Imperial Army uniform for BayCon, I came across the perfect<BR>
>>unit patch. It's a gold unicorn, rearing up on a blue background. The patch<BR>
>>is supposed to be for the 6th Armored Cavalry Regiment.<BR>
><BR>
>Will you post a picture of your finished uniform on your website?<BR>
<BR>
Most assuredly. The uniform will be worn at the TML Party at BayCon. I'm<BR>
also going to have an Imperial flag, and if I can swing the money, a<BR>
Unified Army of Regina flag.<BR>
<BR>
The uniform is a black pair of BDU pants, with a gray-short sleeved BDU<BR>
shirt in Federal gray. I ordered the shirts from US Cavalry, which also<BR>
makes custom name tapes. So I have white on black tapes reading "Imperial<BR>
Army" and "Berry". They even sewws the strips on for me! (I have a few<BR>
extras, if you want an Imperial Army tape, contact me off list.)<BR>
<BR>
We hit a gun show last week, and picvked up up a set of WWII Japanese<BR>
Senior Private rank tabs, and a cap badge for the FFL Cavalry. The badge<BR>
will go on my black beret. (Thank you Glenn for drawing Imperial troops<BR>
wearing berets!)<BR>
<BR>
The uniform is still a work in progress, so it will change a bit as I go.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>- Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
>"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and<BR>
the<BR>
> lash."                              - Winston Churchill<BR>
>Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
>NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:17:29 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2107<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Mar 2000 22:16 (+1300), frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:<BR>
>How can any spellchecker generate words that don't exist ?<BR>
>(Such as "Thu" "wsw" "thrum" & "yuan" )<BR>
<BR>
	Sounds like a sporting question to try to answer.  <G><BR>
<BR>
	Thu is the day of the week in between Wed and Fri.  Or, it is the past<BR>
tense of "throw" (ex:  "I thu the ball.")<BR>
	Thrum is what one does to guitar strings.<BR>
	Yuan is a given name in some Asian cultures.<BR>
	Wsw is...um is....um, er...stumped.<BR>
<BR>
	I know, I know, given names, and abbreviations don't count.  But at least<BR>
"thrum" really and truly is a word.  I should point out that spellcheckers<BR>
have notoriously tiny vocabularies and the chances of one knowing the word<BR>
"thrum" are pretty small.  Conversely, it wouldn't surprise me if some<BR>
spellcheckers actually find "Thu" acceptable, at least if capitalized.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning (who keeps an OED and a Random House 2nd ed. within arm's reach of<BR>
the computer and never ever uses the [expletive deleted] spellchecker anymore)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:24:10 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
"Smith, Walter" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
> >>The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike is the calm, reasoned response of a<BR>
> >>corporation with a keen understanding of the value of customers<BR>
> ><BR>
> >i.e.: Once we have their money, they are of no value to us.<BR>
><BR>
> Could be. I mean, it's not like they're going for repeat business.<BR>
> Charred spots surrounded by a toxic haze aren't likely to be shopping<BR>
> for more products any time soon. <G><BR>
<BR>
    Actually, have either of you priced any products from their Customer<BR>
After-Care* Division?  The "Sun-Diver Hyper-Hearse" isn't exactly cheap,<BR>
though it =is= flashy.<BR>
<BR>
* Popularly known as the "One Last Insult"<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:59:17 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Library Data on a CD<BR>
<BR>
Laning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <<<SNIPPAGE OF OTHER EXCELLENT POINTS>>><BR>
><BR>
>        You make strong points about SJG's production and distribution costs and<BR>
> timelines being unattractive for a CD but more attractive for simply<BR>
> sticking HTML links into existing text files.  Although I'm not sure if<BR>
> there's much profit in that, either.  :-<<BR>
<BR>
    SJG won't make much profit either way except indirectly; it's tied into JTAS<BR>
subscriptions.  The idea is thus to control the cost.  (Or so I'll assume until Loren<BR>
or someone from SJG says otherwise.)  Burning CDs gets into shipping and handling,<BR>
inventory and control of same, and other factors which require people to handle the<BR>
work (people to actually create/maintain the data files would be the same in either<BR>
case).  More people = more cost.<BR>
<BR>
>         On the other hand, I don't see much benefit to me as a player/referee of<BR>
> Traveller in having it on the Web.  Too slow and clunky.  I am looking for<BR>
> a reference I can put in our two laptops, leave the laptops on the gaming<BR>
> table, and let players browse as we play.  Or direct them to certain<BR>
> entries.  Thus, I was concerned about the ability for the referee to<BR>
> control what is accessible and what isn't.  Preferably on a<BR>
> player-by-player basis.<BR>
<BR>
    One of the excellent points snipped was that it be downloadable.  In other words,<BR>
you *could* have it on your home computer, making it a convenient reference.  The<BR>
only reason to hook up to the web would be to download updates.<BR>
    Control over access would require the design of a specific interface, which<BR>
strikes me as the sort of project that SJG would love to see someone in the fan base<BR>
do out of the goodness of their heart, rather than the sort that would be funded<BR>
(again, controlling costs).  Fortunately, we've got some good-hearted programmers<BR>
hereabouts.  Alternatively, one could load the GM-only entries into a<BR>
password-protected subdirectory.<BR>
<BR>
>         Back to the WWW-only versus distributed CD thing.  More people all the<BR>
> time have CD burners.  If we could download a new disk, or updates to the<BR>
> disk, periodically for a subscription fee then we could burn a new disk<BR>
> once a month/quarter/year/whatever.  Need to find a way to avoid the<BR>
> slooooowness of the WWW, and the way it ties up a phone line.  It will be a<BR>
> few years before everyone has broadband Internet access in every room<BR>
> they're likely to play Traveller in.<BR>
<BR>
    Take a brief look at the quantity of information we're talking about here.  There<BR>
is nowhere *near* enough Library Data to justify a CD, so far as I'm aware (and I own<BR>
the two original supplements, which contain 85 LBB-sized pages of data, mainly<BR>
text).  Updates, assuming we get any at all (more likely if they include TNS data),<BR>
are likely to be infrequent and small enough to make download times quite reasonable,<BR>
if you don't have to download the entire library file every time.  There's very<BR>
little reason I can see not to keep the entire file on the hard drive, making<BR>
concerns of phone lines and who has CD-burners a moot point.<BR>
    On the other hand, utility isn't a moot point.  Most gaming groups of which I've<BR>
been a part didn't have a computer accessible at the table.  Most of the people have<BR>
owned computers, true...but they've been desktop models off in some other part of the<BR>
dwelling, and thus inconvenient at best.  Perhaps JTAS could run a poll to find out<BR>
what part of their subscription base actually uses the computer during play, as this<BR>
segment is the most likely to benefit.  (This part matters even if SJG *does* burn<BR>
CDs, because people are less likely to buy them if they can't actually use them<BR>
conveniently.  Never underestimate the importance of convenience to the consumer,<BR>
*especially* the American consumer who I suspect forms the majority of the fan base.)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:31:32 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: RE: Greece<BR>
<BR>
At 08:11 21.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Should we respond to this by forwarding Ian's "Mire Run" post to the<BR>
> > spammer?<BR>
<BR>
Good idea...<BR>
<BR>
> > (Along with some of the choicer posts from the Spelling Thread That<BR>
> > Wouldn't Die.)<BR>
<BR>
Oh man, you ARE Evil! Good thing i had nothing in my mouth...<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:33:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Penquins and Elephants and Swallows, OH MY!<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: William Prankard<BR>
No birds, elephants, or small children have been harmed in the making of<BR>
this newspost.<BR>
<END TRANSMISSION><BR>
<BR>
Dear Commander X,<BR>
LOL #8^D <BR>
And coconuts; what about the coconuts? "Everybody" knows that coconuts have<BR>
feelings too!<BR>
WHAT is your favorite color of yellow Sylean swallow?!!! NO, I mean blue!<BR>
NO! I mean...AAAAARRRrrrh!<BR>
<BR>
Abel<BR>
(ASLAN for, "Hunter of naturally fallen coconuts.";)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:27:55 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:12 20.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>>Capital/Core                  083-1117<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
>dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
>heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
>the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, an heir wouldn't be a problem, what with the ability to take<BR>
>genetic material from Iphengia and Isis and combine it to create embryos.<BR>
<BR>
I do not have the impression that the citizenry of the Imperium (or the<BR>
nobility) cares much for ancient Terran views on sexual morale. After all,<BR>
there are citizens (and nobles) in the Imperium that do not even have a<BR>
gender... <BR>
<BR>
But I see another possible problem here: An Archduchess and the Empress-<BR>
married? We would need another Archduchess/Archduke for Ilelish then... (or<BR>
do you think they'd aggree with seeing each other once a decade?:-) ) <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:03:05 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/19/00 5:07:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  Please, don't get all technical! :)<BR>
<BR>
What do you expect from a gearhead........ :)<BR>
  <BR>
>  Besides, Annic Nova, Leviathan, Shadows, etc. are on Marc's list of "The<BR>
>  Traveller Canon" (from the first volume of the Classic Traveller Reprints).<BR>
>  <BR>
>  So, Nyah. :)<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Incidentally, the Journal is also listed.<BR>
<BR>
Annic Nova isn't canon, also according to Marc (at least the ship itself)....<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:27:01 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Stuart, I would say 'fencing' involves the use of prise-de-fer (feel<BR>
of the steel) to counter and react to an opponent's movements.<BR>
Broadsword tactics / fencing is about broad swings and sudden rushes<BR>
that rely on observing pre-motion 'tells' to counter the attack - so<BR>
it is mainly attack and defense, while fencing uses feint / attack /<BR>
counter / defense / counterattack. In other words, is more complex<BR>
than broadsword. That would be the key difference, and is why a sabre<BR>
would be a fencing weapon, but a cutlass would be a broadsword weapon<BR>
(IMHO).<BR>
<BR>
The piercing bit would apply to foil and epee / rapier, but the sabre<BR>
can also cut. Most broadswords, including cutlass, can pierce but are<BR>
mostly cutting or bludgeoning weapons - it is the way they are used<BR>
that marks the big difference. What I could do with IMTU is a single<BR>
combat scheme that can allow for both styles - and I have a feeling<BR>
since Hebden Bridge that ACQ might let me do that, though I may have<BR>
to tweak the AP used for different weapon types and actions.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> Scout Harris<BR>
> Sent: 20 March 2000 01:06<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but is fencing about punturing<BR>
> the heart with the point of the blade, while fighting with<BR>
> a sword (or braodsword) is about cutting with the blade (or<BR>
> bludgeoning to death if the opponnent has armour or the<BR>
> sword is blunt)<BR>
><BR>
> If this is correct, then I guess it comes down to who<BR>
> strikes first. The sword may not be able to parry the the<BR>
> sabre (too slow), and the sabre may not have the tensile<BR>
> strength to stop the sword in full swing.<BR>
><BR>
> This may be reflected as such.<BR>
> The sabre gets a chance to hit first, if it does the<BR>
> sword(sman) has to be exceptionally skilled to block the<BR>
> blow (or lucky)<BR>
><BR>
> If it doesnt, the sword swings, and the sabre has to be<BR>
> exceptionally skilled to parry the sword.<BR>
><BR>
> How does this read?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2135<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2136</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2136<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
RE: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Lost Supplements?<BR>
Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
Another OTU variant<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS  83-1117)<BR>
Archduchess Ilethian & Ciencia Iphegenia<BR>
Fencing Nitpick<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
Alien thoughts<BR>
RE: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:14:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MONTANA-class Battleship (T4/FF&S2)<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I canon they dont', but a number of us have come to the conclusion that <BR>
> by analysis of the shape, intensity, etc of the meson pulse as it <BR>
> decays you could work out where it came from, though it'd probably take <BR>
> a number of samples, especially if they're coming from multiple <BR>
> sources.<BR>
<BR>
It would also be relatively more difficult to analyse a pulse which occurred<BR>
inside of a solid object, as the object blowing up will disrupt the shape of<BR>
the pulse.  Since a buried site isn't going to miss at those ranges, analysis<BR>
is of limited value...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:09:34 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
Or, "Oh my god, it's full of penguins!"<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Bruce<BR>
> Johnson<BR>
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 6:50 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I'm not sure, but I may have started this "jumpspace is deadly" <BR>
> thing about 3 <BR>
> > AM at a convention many many years ago. <BR>
> <BR>
> snip<BR>
>  <BR>
> > I think my answer was something like "everyone dies a horrible <BR>
> death -- go <BR>
> > away and lemme sleep!" punctuated with a few obscenities . . . <BR>
> <BR>
> I just had this weird flash:<BR>
> <BR>
> The ship's computer has sabotaged things, and the only surviving<BR>
> crewmember Dave Bowmanii leans out of the air lock and says <BR>
> <BR>
> "Oh, my GOD! It's full of [obscenities]!<BR>
> <BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
> <BR>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:19:02 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know the reason why our star charts have this funny 8 parsecs x<BR>
10 parsecs format? I would like to know both in-universe explanations and<BR>
the True Story (which Loren can tell u?) of what took place back in the<BR>
70's at GDW.<BR>
<BR>
My bet on an in-universe explanation: Some Vilani bureaucrat decided to map<BR>
space somehow and used a 8 jump distances x 8 jump distances square (since<BR>
a square is a logical choice, IMO). This was passed to his superior, then<BR>
to her superior again, etc, and somehow those 2 parsecs at the height must<BR>
have been added somewhen in the process...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:24:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 05:27 PM 3/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
>>dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
>>heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
>>the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
>I do not have the impression that the citizenry of the Imperium (or the<BR>
>nobility) cares much for ancient Terran views on sexual morale. After all,<BR>
>there are citizens (and nobles) in the Imperium that do not even have a<BR>
>gender... <BR>
<BR>
I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
<BR>
To understand just how extremely these feelings can get, check out<BR>
<BR>
 http://www.godhatesfags.com<BR>
<BR>
These are the nice people who picket the funerals of gay men and women.<BR>
<BR>
>But I see another possible problem here: An Archduchess and the Empress-<BR>
>married? We would need another Archduchess/Archduke for Ilelish then... (or<BR>
>do you think they'd aggree with seeing each other once a decade?:-) ) <BR>
<BR>
Or Isis appoints a regent, and their child is heir to both the Iridium<BR>
Throne *and* the Domain of Illeish.  Doesn't the Emperor carry the title of<BR>
Archduke of Core?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:33:26 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Or, "Oh my god, it's full of penguins!"<BR>
<BR>
    That would certainly be ample explanation for the deadly nature of jump<BR>
space.  Especially if they're all carrying FGPPs.<BR>
<BR>
    Though if it's full of penguins, perhaps we should rename it "waddle<BR>
space".<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:22:12 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Lost Supplements?<BR>
<BR>
Let me add that I just got back from a trip overseas and found<BR>
this large envelope from Paul waiting for me.  Inside, packed in<BR>
a nice folder, were the Lost Keith Supplements.  Let me tell you<BR>
- - this stuff was worth the money and the wait.  Truly<BR>
outstanding stuff, and  for the anal Traveller Completist that I<BR>
am, totally mandatory to get.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, this package really brought back a lot of the sense<BR>
of wonder that much of the early Traveller (CT mostly) material<BR>
would bring to me.  If you can afford a set, you should<BR>
definitely get one.  Paul did an outstanding job wsith this<BR>
stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks very much, Paul<BR>
<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:37:33 -0500<BR>
From: peersce@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
    To escape death by bombing if I were a member of the Magnificent 7 PCs,<BR>
I'd hug the SS Liebstandarte Mr Ed ground troops and use every trick in the<BR>
book to prevent detection by their ground scouts and sensors (ghillie<BR>
suits+IR dispersion+chameleon surfaces+using the terrain to my utmost).<BR>
Their orbital weapons probably won't fire danger close to their ground<BR>
troops without a clear target, and their orbital sensors (depending on their<BR>
quality) may not recgonize the M7 as enemies, given their proximity to a<BR>
large friendly troop concentration.<BR>
<BR>
    Depending on the terrain available, a good psychological tactic might be<BR>
to lure the Eds into constricted terrain like arroyos and canyons, where<BR>
they can't move freely or turn around. Even a dense forest or a jungle might<BR>
work for this.  Anything that would give them a closed in sensation and<BR>
difficult to move around in. Especially if the PCs lure them into an area<BR>
they have previously prepared to be thick with boobytraps and mines.  That<BR>
might work on their natural claustrophobia enough to make them want to<BR>
withdraw and call in artillery (the PCs of course running like hell out of<BR>
the impact area when they see the Eds starting to withdraw).<BR>
<BR>
    Now imagine this.  They're in the thick forest, frustrated and paranoid<BR>
from taking casualties from boobytraps, but still determined to take the PCs<BR>
(they may even want one or two alive for interrogation and taxidermy)<BR>
They're having a hard time moving their large bodies through the dense<BR>
undergrowth and thick trees.  Suddenly, their leaders get sniped and the M7<BR>
PCs detonate the incendiary bombs (fuel pods disguised as abandoned<BR>
equipment, or concealed in thick vegetation) they have previously emplaced<BR>
and camouflaged.  Little do they know, the M7 have prepared razor sharp wire<BR>
obstacles and tanglefoot to their sides and front, and a lot of command<BR>
detonated mines to their rear.  Not surprisingly, mass panic may quite<BR>
probably ensue. A large part of the force would be stuck in the forest fire<BR>
kill zone as hundreds of Eds try to cram through the trees and brush all at<BR>
once.  Still others would get stuck on the wire and in the tanglefoot. Many<BR>
of the Eds would burn to death or be trampled as they cram the narrow forest<BR>
paths trying to climb over each other to escape, and those that escape to<BR>
the rear would take the first wave of command detonated mines head on.<BR>
(the Traveller equivalent of claymores, or other antipersonnel device.  Even<BR>
dead hollow trees packed with explosives).  Hearing the detonations to the<BR>
rear, some Eds might stop or hesitate, causing further congestion in the<BR>
forest fire area.  They might advance more cautiously, and then still get<BR>
killed by the second wave of mines.<BR>
<BR>
    Meanwhile, all the Ed Regional Commander knows is that one of his units<BR>
took fire and got hit by mines, a fire started, and then the unit stopped<BR>
communicating as all organization disintegrated.  Knowing Ed, he'll probably<BR>
wait until his ponies are clear (or not, if he's an *sshole) and then carpet<BR>
bomb the area with whatever he has available.<BR>
<BR>
    So here's what the M7 do:  as soon as they trigger that second wave of<BR>
mines, they're getting the hell out of Dodge, running like the Wilburs they<BR>
are, preferably in an unexpected direction, but away from the "scene of the<BR>
crime" that is going to get carpet bombed.  They will have caused casualties<BR>
far out of proportion to their numbers and caused the Eds to stop pursuit to<BR>
deal with it.  They will probably proceed more cautiously, probing for<BR>
mines, etc., giving the PCs more time to escape.<BR>
<BR>
Bad Parts of the Plan:<BR>
    The PCs will need a suitable forest or other usable terrain, time,<BR>
mines, and wire to set this up. 7 of them probably can't carry all of it.<BR>
One way to handle this is to have the Eds deploy in smaller "search and<BR>
destroy" type units and have the PCs encounter one or two of these units,<BR>
defeating them in detail.  This smaller scale would allow the PCs to carry<BR>
enough explosives to destroy a small patrol unit (30-50 Eds).  Then again,<BR>
if the PCs have a vehicle to haul all this gear...<BR>
<BR>
    If the Eds can be lured into a mined canyon, an entire rock face might<BR>
be blasted on to them.  A similar tactic could be used in an urban<BR>
environment.  It depends on what terrain you'll have the PCs in when the<BR>
Fury of Ed is unleashed.  If they have access to hardened bunkers or a<BR>
subway system in a city, they might even survive the preliminary<BR>
bombardment.  Will the scenario take place against the backdrop of a larger<BR>
Human-K'Kree conflict?<BR>
<BR>
> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
> Subject: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
><BR>
> I plan to put my PC against something like a minor<BR>
> army of presumptious horsemeat during the next few<BR>
> weeks.(I presumably watched to much Waterworld and<BR>
> Aliens)<BR>
> However,there isn't much available about their<BR>
> military,and it's weaknesses.So when 7 PCs face  a few<BR>
> 1000 Mr Eds,how can they get some results?<BR>
> Well,fighting on their own terms,the K'kree carpetbomb<BR>
> even the smallest unit from space,then finish them off<BR>
> with some rather clumsy ,neurotic ground troops.So<BR>
> ,for a group of players,the lack of anything<BR>
> significant between those approaches (Grav tanks and<BR>
> similar( yes,they have them,but they are huge and they<BR>
> lack pilots for those)) can be the road of escape.<BR>
> So how do you prevent beeing bombed?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:38:46 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Another OTU variant<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
I just had an idea for a variant of Our Traveller Universe:<BR>
<BR>
Everything is just as canon says. Except one thing: It's not humaniti, it's<BR>
Lizarditi that was spread by the Ancients!<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, right. The Zhodani, Vilani, and Solomani are aliens. We humans are<BR>
what we are- Terrans that stumble across a Solomani spaceship with a<BR>
working jump drive and explode to the stars. Our world could be anywhere,<BR>
at any of the edges of Charted space, though I'd suggest rimward..<BR>
<BR>
Modification of YTU is easy: Just substitute any reference to "humaniti"<BR>
and human physiology with its lizarditian counterpart. So the Zhoes are<BR>
still taller than the average Lizard, the Vilani are a bit... traditional,<BR>
the Solomani somehwat overconficdent of their race, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, personally I won't use this variant for my campaign, but I like the<BR>
ideas, I must admit.<BR>
<BR>
What do _you_ think about it?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:53:14 -0700<BR>
From: "Eric T. Holmes" <eholmes@lanl.gov><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Fellow TMLers:<BR>
<BR>
Have completed Eqqus::Lanth::Spinward Marches 2417  B55A858-B S Wa  202 Im<BR>
  F6 v    M5 d<BR>
as well as secondary world at binary.  The Binary separation was almost a<BR>
light year based upon<BR>
World Builder Deluxe v5<BR>
<BR>
World is mapped, populated, etc.  Will email scans and info to those<BR>
interested.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
eholmes@lanl.gov 			holmberg@thuntek.net <BR>
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 	6pm to Midnight Mountain Time<BR>
<BR>
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,<BR>
pi+, ta+, <BR>
		as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_ <BR>
			(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)<BR>
<BR>
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:50:48 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS  83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:24 20.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>I do not have the impression that the citizenry of the Imperium (or the<BR>
>>nobility) cares much for ancient Terran views on sexual morale. After all,<BR>
>>there are citizens (and nobles) in the Imperium that do not even have a<BR>
>>gender... <BR>
><BR>
>I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
>worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
<BR>
So what? If a world or two declare war on the Imperium, who cares (except<BR>
1/10,000th of the Imperial Navy, of course <g>). <BR>
<BR>
>To understand just how extremely these feelings can get, check out<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.godhatesfags.com<BR>
<BR>
:) <BR>
Thanks, I know more than enough about people like those, I think.<BR>
<BR>
They have got nothing to do with SFf, BTW. Rather with Dark Fantasy.<BR>
<BR>
>>But I see another possible problem here: An Archduchess and the Empress-<BR>
>>married? We would need another Archduchess/Archduke for Ilelish then... (or<BR>
>>do you think they'd aggree with seeing each other once a decade?:-) ) <BR>
><BR>
>Or Isis appoints a regent, and their child is heir to both the Iridium<BR>
>Throne *and* the Domain of Illeish.  Doesn't the Emperor carry the title of<BR>
>Archduke of Core?<BR>
<BR>
But the latter is due to the fact that Core is, well somewhat closer to<BR>
capital than Ilelish. Of course, nominally this would be the way, but who<BR>
would hold the _power_ in Ilelish in the next generation? <BR>
<BR>
And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:03:42 -0500<BR>
From: peersce@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Archduchess Ilethian & Ciencia Iphegenia<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
>Capital/Core                  083-1117<BR>
>A press release from the Imperial Palace today confirmed that Grand =<BR>
Princess=20<BR>
>Ciencia Iphegenia left Capital with Archduchess Isis Arepo Ilethian at =<BR>
an=20<BR>
>unspecified time within the last month. "The Grand Princess and =<BR>
Archduchess=20<BR>
>are lifelong friends," the press release "and wished to spend a little =<BR>
more=20<BR>
>time together."<BR>
<BR>
Reports that the Archduchess and Grand Princess are travelling to Aslan<BR>
space in search of comfortable shoes could not be confirmed at this =<BR>
time.<BR>
<BR>
Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve =<BR>
to<BR>
the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, an heir wouldn't be a problem, what with the ability to take<BR>
genetic material from Iphengia and Isis and combine it to create =<BR>
embryos.<BR>
<BR>
Reply:<BR>
<BR>
1.  The people of the Imperium don't have a choice.  Its not a =<BR>
democracy, and the Grand Princess can do anything she damn well pleases. =<BR>
 If some of the people don't like it, tough.<BR>
2.  The people probably won't care, as the Grand Princess' lifestyle =<BR>
doesn't affect them personally.<BR>
3.  If the Grand Princess chooses a lifestyle, it might cause an upswing =<BR>
of acceptance and popularity for that lifestyle!  Especially among =<BR>
people close to her court, and female admirers throughout the Imperium!<BR>
<BR>
Humanity has had gay rulers before, and things just went on as usual, as =<BR>
long as there were heirs.  The only significant grumblings could come =<BR>
from the Moot, but such people aren't stupid enough to let personal =<BR>
opinions get in the way their power, which means they would hold their =<BR>
opinions privately and continue on with their maneuverings for power.  =<BR>
Ditto for the officer corps of the Imperial military.  On a lighter =<BR>
note, If the Grand Princess' lifestyle becomes popular with many women =<BR>
in the Imperium, merchant PCs could make a tidy profit trafficking in =<BR>
Sword Worlds Mail Order Brides.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><HEAD><BR>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BR>
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<STYLE></STYLE><BR>
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<BR>
<DIV>&gt;Capital/Core&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20<BR>
083-1117<BR>
&gt;A press release from the Imperial Palace today confirmed =that=20Grand Princess <BR>
&gt;Ciencia Iphegenia left Capital with Archduchess =Isis=20Arepo Ilethian at an <BR>
&gt;unspecified time within the last month. = "The Grand=20Princess and Archduchess <BR>
&gt;are lifelong friends," the press =release "and=20wished to spend a little more <BR>
&gt;time together."<BR>
<BR>
Reports =that the=20Archduchess and Grand Princess are travelling to Aslan<BR>
space in =search of=20comfortable shoes could not be confirmed at this time.<BR>
<BR>
Which =brings up a=20point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
dynastic =repercussions of=20a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
heir to the Iridium=20Throne?&nbsp; I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
the point =where=20everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, =an heir=20wouldn't be a problem, what with the ability to take<BR>
genetic material =from=20Iphengia and Isis and combine it to create embryos.<BR>
</DIV><DIV>Reply:</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>1.&nbsp; The people of the Imperium = don't have a=20 choice.&nbsp; Its not a democracy, and the Grand Princess&nbsp;can do = anything=20 she damn well pleases.&nbsp; If some of the people don't like it,=20tough.</DIV><DIV>2.&nbsp; The people probably won't = care, as the=20 Grand Princess' lifestyle doesn't affect them personally.</DIV><DIV>3.&nbsp; If the Grand Princess chooses =a lifestyle,=20 it might cause an upswing of acceptance and popularity for that = lifestyle!&nbsp;=20Especially among people close to her court, and female admirers =throughout the=20Imperium!</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Humanity has had gay rulers before, and = things just=20 went on as usual, as long as there were heirs.&nbsp; The only = significant=20 grumblings could come from the Moot, but such people aren't stupid = enough to let=20 personal opinions get in the way their power, which means they would = hold their=20 opinions privately and continue on with their maneuverings for = power.&nbsp;=20 Ditto for the officer corps&nbsp;of the Imperial military.&nbsp; On a = lighter=20 note, If the Grand Princess' lifestyle becomes popular with many women = in the=20 Imperium, merchant PCs could make a tidy profit trafficking in Sword =Worlds Mail=20Order Brides.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:47:20 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Fencing Nitpick<BR>
<BR>
Prise-de-fer is "Taking of the blade" - gaining control of an opponent's<BR>
weapon.<BR>
<BR>
Sentiment de fer is "feeling of the blade" - deducing an opponent's action<BR>
by tactile sensation transmitted up the blade.<BR>
<BR>
Just a nitpick....<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:44:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
At 11:33 AM 3/20/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Though if it's full of penguins, perhaps we should rename it "waddle<BR>
>space".<BR>
<BR>
Penguins can jump. Oddly enough, it's one of the few land-based locomotions<BR>
they're any good at.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:46:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
<BR>
At 12:37 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    To escape death by bombing if I were a member of the Magnificent 7 PCs,<BR>
>I'd hug the SS Liebstandarte Mr Ed ground troops and use every trick in the<BR>
>book to prevent detection by their ground scouts and sensors (ghillie<BR>
>suits+IR dispersion+chameleon surfaces+using the terrain to my utmost).<BR>
<BR>
They smell you. And they don't mind dying for the Herd. <BR>
<BR>
>Their orbital weapons probably won't fire danger close to their ground<BR>
>troops without a clear target, and their orbital sensors (depending on their<BR>
>quality) may not recgonize the M7 as enemies, given their proximity to a<BR>
>large friendly troop concentration.<BR>
<BR>
Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both<BR>
decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree fears. A<BR>
nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:03:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Several threads recently have made the assumption that we can apply human,<BR>
specifically Western late 20th Century, thoughts and motivations to alien<BR>
races in Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
That is a mistake, and shortchanges the possibilities inherent in these<BR>
races. An alien is going to be *alien*, with it's most basic reactions<BR>
driving by a completely different set of evolutionary factors.<BR>
<BR>
The Aslan are *predators*, we're not. The K'Kree are herd herbivores, we;re<BR>
not. To try to explain their actions and attitudes by warping human<BR>
perceptions is pointless.<BR>
<BR>
An example I always like to use on con panels is cheese. Cheese is a big<BR>
part of the western diet. We have hundreds of varieties, there are cheese<BR>
competitions, Monty Python made a wonderful sketch about cheese, and the<BR>
fans of a certain football team wear foam cheese wedges on their heads to<BR>
proudly proclaim their allegiance.<BR>
<BR>
What is cheese? Rotted milk left so long it gets fungal infections and<BR>
clots up. There are many cultures on Earth how simply cannot believe that<BR>
we would willingly put this stuff in our mouths! <BR>
<BR>
Of course, the French eat snails. <BR>
<BR>
When you start talking about actual aliens, you get into the realm where a<BR>
male Aslan will do something to him is perfectly logical and correct, but<BR>
makes everyone around him go white in terror.<BR>
<BR>
Now take Mr. Hamilton's point about luxury items in Ancient bases.<BR>
Discarding the Final War and intervening millennia, what's luxurious to a<BR>
Hiver? To a creature that might be allergic to silk? What if there's a<BR>
creature that finds sleeping on a rack of hot iron wonderful, but the<BR>
lower-class minions have to share that big padded thing.<BR>
<BR>
That's the danger of leaping to assumptions. <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
I resent your implication that Americans are insensitive<BR>
to the culture of the unwashed, ignorant heathens that<BR>
populate the rest of the world. -Shawn Wilson, in a.f.m<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:10:05 -0600<BR>
From: "Derek Dees" <djdees@mm.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I'm interested.<BR>
<BR>
Also, I'd like to grab Zila, Aramis-Spinward Marches/0508. I'm using the<BR>
RICE format and marking the documents up in XML. If there's interest, I'll<BR>
post the DTD, when I finish it.<BR>
<BR>
Derek<BR>
djdees@mm.com<BR>
http://www.mm.com/user/djdees<BR>
<BR>
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who<BR>
doesn't get it.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Eric T.<BR>
> Holmes<BR>
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:53 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Fellow TMLers:<BR>
><BR>
> Have completed Eqqus::Lanth::Spinward Marches 2417  B55A858-B S Wa  202 Im<BR>
>   F6 v    M5 d<BR>
> as well as secondary world at binary.  The Binary separation was almost a<BR>
> light year based upon<BR>
> World Builder Deluxe v5<BR>
><BR>
> World is mapped, populated, etc.  Will email scans and info to those<BR>
> interested.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Eric<BR>
><BR>
> eholmes@lanl.gov 			holmberg@thuntek.net<BR>
> 7am to 4pm Mountain Time 	6pm to Midnight Mountain Time<BR>
><BR>
> IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,<BR>
> pi+, ta+,<BR>
> 		as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_<BR>
> 			(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)<BR>
><BR>
> Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:11:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vacc Suits and Solar Flares<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor writes:<BR>
> Thom Jones-Low wrote :-<BR>
> >         None of this has answered my original question. Would a magnetic<BR>
> >         field <BR>
> > strong enough to protect against the worst effect of the solar flare<BR>
> > cause its own (more severe) problems?<BR>
> <BR>
> How strong a field do we need?<BR>
> The Earth's magnetic field is on the order of 10^(-7) Tesla.<BR>
The figures I found are on the order of 10^-5, not 10^-7<BR>
<BR>
The deflection of charged particles by a magnetic field is a function of <BR>
distance and field strength.  To match the earth's magnetic field, with<BR>
a dipole of, say, 1 meter (backpack-sized) instead of 10,000 kilometers, <BR>
you would want a field strength of several hundred tesla, which would be<BR>
extremely unsafe.<BR>
<BR>
There are ways to make the field less intense while still providing the same<BR>
shielding effect (just make the field bigger) but that's not particularly<BR>
man-portable.  It's also probably possible to use a lower strength magnetic<BR>
field and still have a useful effect.<BR>
<BR>
Responses to other people:<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>Mounted on ships, if they can protect folks on the hull from a major<BR>
>flare, they can greatly reduce the effects of a particle beam strike!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, space combat PAWs use neutral atoms, not charged particles.  They'll<BR>
go through magnetic shielding like it wasn't there.  Plasma weapons might be<BR>
more affected, however.<BR>
<BR>
>I thought protons could be captured, as well as slowed?<BR>
<BR>
While a certain amount of fusion is possible if a beam of protons hits matter<BR>
capable of absorbing protons, it isn't going to be a substantial part of <BR>
stopping particle beams until we get into much higher energy levels (at<BR>
which point protons will be shattering nuclei, and nuclear bonding energy is<BR>
somewhat important).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2136<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2137<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent  7 PCs<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS   83-1117)<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent  7 PCs<BR>
Re: Battle Summary - Re: so what happened after I left?<BR>
Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Need this answered FAST<BR>
re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
re: Good Ideas!  T5 by Dom Mooney + another suggestion<BR>
RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
Droyne Closers<BR>
Vs: Closers<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Legendary Potables<BR>
Interstellar Internet?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:09:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent  7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
>They smell you. And they don't mind dying for the Herd. <BR>
<BR>
Thus an anti-K'Kree force needs some sort of olfactory masking<BR>
capability, and/or some form of olfactory "jamming".<BR>
<BR>
Douglas again:<BR>
>Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both <BR>
>decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree <BR>
>fears. A nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick. <BR>
<BR>
And hope that the K'Kree commanders don't decide that an equitorial<BR>
desert belt would suit their purposes better on this planet than<BR>
the current triple-canopy rain forest does.<BR>
<BR>
Few human commanders would burn down such a big house to nail such<BR>
small fleas. Assuming a K'Kree commander will follow the same<BR>
"decision trees" can be a very dangerous thing to do.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:13:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS   83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 06:50 PM 3/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>At 09:24 20.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
>>worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
><BR>
>So what? If a world or two declare war on the Imperium, who cares (except<BR>
>1/10,000th of the Imperial Navy, of course <g>). <BR>
<BR>
As a former sniper, I must point out that one bullet can change history.<BR>
<BR>
>Thanks, I know more than enough about people like those, I think.<BR>
><BR>
>They have got nothing to do with SFf, BTW. Rather with Dark Fantasy.<BR>
<BR>
no, but they are an example of my point. Fred Phelps spends thousands of<BR>
dollars each year flying all over the country to picket. That sort of<BR>
fanaticism will still be with us in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
>But the latter is due to the fact that Core is, well somewhat closer to<BR>
>capital than Ilelish. Of course, nominally this would be the way, but who<BR>
>would hold the _power_ in Ilelish in the next generation? <BR>
<BR>
The British crown used to claim places that were months away. No reason why<BR>
the Emperor Strephon II can't exercise similar authority.<BR>
<BR>
Now that I think about it, a more likely scenario is that either Iphengia<BR>
or Isis pulls an Edward and Mrs. Simpson, abdicating her position.<BR>
<BR>
>And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
>Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
<BR>
Never be accepted. As I recall, Dulinor's brother was the Admiral of the<BR>
Fleet for Illeish. He'd be a good choice.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:16:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
At 01:09 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
>>They smell you. And they don't mind dying for the Herd. <BR>
><BR>
>Thus an anti-K'Kree force needs some sort of olfactory masking<BR>
>capability, and/or some form of olfactory "jamming".<BR>
<BR>
Like the stuff that deer hunters use? I could see it until you really start<BR>
sweating.<BR>
<BR>
>Douglas again:<BR>
>>Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both <BR>
>>decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree <BR>
>>fears. A nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick. <BR>
><BR>
>And hope that the K'Kree commanders don't decide that an equitorial<BR>
>desert belt would suit their purposes better on this planet than<BR>
>the current triple-canopy rain forest does.<BR>
><BR>
>Few human commanders would burn down such a big house to nail such<BR>
>small fleas. Assuming a K'Kree commander will follow the same<BR>
>"decision trees" can be a very dangerous thing to do.<BR>
<BR>
Well, this all assumes that the K'Kree commander has a reason *not* to burn<BR>
the world to the bedrock. If he doesn't have such a reason, the characters<BR>
are deader than disco.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"<BR>
                    -Adam West, as Batman <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:26:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent  7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
>>Few human commanders would burn down such a big house to nail such <BR>
>>small fleas. Assuming a K'Kree commander will follow the same <BR>
>>"decision trees" can be a very dangerous thing to do. <BR>
><BR>
>Well, this all assumes that the K'Kree commander has a reason *not* to <BR>
>burn the world to the bedrock. If he doesn't have such a reason, the <BR>
>characters are deader than disco. <BR>
<BR>
"Disco isn't dead! Disco is life!!" - leader of the Disco Boys, from<BR>
the movie _Mystery Men_<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, as I was saying...<BR>
<BR>
The K'Kree commander doesn't have to necessarily burn the whole world.<BR>
He just needs to be willing to, say, burn an area the size of<BR>
Montana. Centered on where they think the Magnificent Seven are.<BR>
Repeat as necessary.<BR>
<BR>
This would require his own troops to be either very mobile, or even<BR>
more expendable. And assume that a fast "getaway vehicle" for the<BR>
humans would be detectable and swattable from orbit.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:28:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Summary - Re: so what happened after I left?<BR>
<BR>
Kristian, <BR>
<BR>
I think you forgot that Unicorn-Z had destroyed the intruder's<BR>
fire control system (its one critical hit, as I recall), which<BR>
neutralized it as a threat.  It appears therefore that my<BR>
strategy was quite successful.  Some new crew members and<BR>
replacement of peripheral parts, and Unicorn-Z is back on the<BR>
line!  In fact, it could have continued to fight for some time<BR>
if necessary.  <BR>
<BR>
Thanks again for hosting.  I had a great time.  Next time, I'm<BR>
bringing frozen pizza for a midday snack (not much of an issue<BR>
on Saturday, as I was heading for a Chinese banquet that evening<BR>
and knew I'd be well fed).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
P.S.  I made it on time to my destination, even though I left 15<BR>
minutes late because I couldn't bring myself to leave before<BR>
resolving my ship's fire -- it was 45 minutes from leaving your<BR>
place to ringing the doorbell on the other end, and I even<BR>
stopped at my place to get my nice clothes (which I'd already<BR>
put in a bag).  There was just very light traffic both ways on<BR>
Saturday.  <BR>
<BR>
- --- Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> wrote:<BR>
> Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Did the Unicorn-Z survive Luther's ship's last volley? <BR>
> That's the big<BR>
> > question for me.  My strategy was to accept some damage in<BR>
> exchange for<BR>
> > getting close enough to kill, but not to become destroyed or<BR>
> disabled.<BR>
> > Did it work?<BR>
> <BR>
> Hi Glenn, <BR>
> I was a little busy today but here's this month's battle<BR>
> report:<BR>
> <BR>
> For those of you that missed the "Brilliant Lances" game this<BR>
> month, it<BR>
> went really smoothly.  I think we know the rules pretty well<BR>
> now.  As<BR>
> for the summary, here it is:<BR>
> <BR>
> Luther's Gazelle was attempting to refuel at a water world. <BR>
> Kristian<BR>
> and Glenn's SDB's were in the ocean or orbit to collect<BR>
> refueling fees. <BR>
> Since Luther refused to pay the $20 refueling fee, hostilities<BR>
> broke<BR>
> out.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Stag-Alpha SDB cautiously advanced towards the intruder,<BR>
> conducting<BR>
> evasive manuevers the whole time, with a screen of missiles<BR>
> leading the<BR>
> way.  Unicorn-Z did a 4G-turn burn towards the intruder and<BR>
> engaged with<BR>
> a barrage of ten missiles at close range.  Final results:<BR>
> <BR>
> Intruder:  Salvagable.  One laser barbette destroyed, gunner<BR>
> killed. <BR>
> Power plant severely damaged, repairable.  Ship's gig is a<BR>
> write-off and<BR>
> the crew killed.  Contr-grav destroyed.  Life support<BR>
> destroyed.<BR>
> <BR>
> Unicorn-Z:  One missile barbette destroyed, gunner killed. <BR>
> Contra-grav<BR>
> destroyed.  All commo knocked out.  Three engineering crew<BR>
> killed.<BR>
> <BR>
> Stag-Alpha:  Needs new furniture for captain's stateroom.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Spinal-mount weapons in April!<BR>
> <BR>
> That's right!  Next month:  "Battle Rider"  After that, there<BR>
> is talk of<BR>
> doing Striker...<BR>
> <BR>
> See you all in April,<BR>
> Kristian<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:23:39 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Staking my claim: Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
<BR>
If its still available, id like to claim Rhylanor/Rhylanor as my personal <BR>
Domain.<BR>
Ill try to integrate the MT II Computer game with other published facts.<BR>
<BR>
I know its in BTC, which i have.<BR>
Could some kind soul send me the info that is in the TNE Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
<BR>
Also, does anybody know any additional appearances in other publications <BR>
(Challenge, JTAS, TD, adventures, etc)?<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:00:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
At 01:26 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>"Disco isn't dead! Disco is life!!" - leader of the Disco Boys, from<BR>
>the movie _Mystery Men_<BR>
<BR>
"I shovel. I shovel well." - The Shoveler.  (Any fan of Champions who<BR>
hasn't seen this movie yet..)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:02:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser that suffered a boarding action during<BR>
the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
<BR>
I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical resolutions<BR>
given.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:54:56 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: On-Line Sectors (WAS: Massive Firepower)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:19 -0500 20/3/00, Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de> wrote:<BR>
> >Incidently, the official CORE site will go live soon. This will contain<BR>
> >details of all products produced by the CORE Product development group,<BR>
> >along with authors and artists bios and other material such as errata and<BR>
> >unpublished support material.<BR>
>COOL! In Capitals!<BR>
<BR>
One of the first things up will be the real draft of the Annililik <BR>
Run, not IG's Dungeon Bash...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:46:30 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 7:54 -0500 20/3/00,  "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > I staked Aster (1739) last Thursday.<BR>
>Why ? Did he break the Masquerade ?<BR>
><grin><BR>
<BR>
<Splort!><BR>
<BR>
And the Prince declared a blood hunt?!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:20:07 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The TML: Excellent Resource<BR>
<BR>
At 17:30 -0500 19/3/00, Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
>The short answer would be "Very!" as far as my work is concerned.  The TML<BR>
>continues to be a hugely supportive community for anything I have ever<BR>
>needed.<BR>
><BR>
>"Inner Circle"?  Cool.  Do we get cloaks & stuff like the B5 Grey Council?<BR>
>;)<BR>
<BR>
BITS has its agents on the list two, generally listening. This does <BR>
have an impact on what you get from us; for example the two new <BR>
adventures (SpaceDogs and the Khiidkar Incident) came about from <BR>
people saying they wanted small, LBB style adventures. We decided to <BR>
call your bluff....<BR>
<BR>
It can be a great resource, although a little daunting in volume.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:11:58 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
<BR>
At 10:17 -0500 19/3/00, "Katharine Whitchurch" <BR>
<katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote:<BR>
>Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the<BR>
>flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with<BR>
>     (a) elephant-mounted Particle Accelerators<BR>
>     (b) the military version of the Jet Bike (I'm thinking of the racing<BR>
>version with a 50kg long-rod penetrator<BR>
>     (c) a new, upgraded Sound System<BR>
>     (d) a Ground Car.<BR>
><BR>
>Note that none of these exist. Yet.<BR>
<BR>
Glug, Glug, Glug. <Smell of Petrol/Gas><BR>
Click, click, hiss. <Sound of a Zippo><BR>
Whumph! <charring roasting meat smell><BR>
<BR>
<FLAME ON><BR>
<BR>
Consider this a continuation of the flame war. I want more toys from <BR>
the High Energy Weapons Division...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:58:27 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Good Ideas!  T5 by Dom Mooney + another suggestion<BR>
<BR>
At 16:08 -0500 18/3/00, Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net> wrote:<BR>
>You know, it makes sense that it is POSSIBLE to come up with<BR>
>a finished rules system, and just crank out Milieux based on it.<BR>
>I didn't even think about that.<BR>
<BR>
It'd be important to launch a milieu *or* two with the book. A <BR>
Traveller rulebook which had stats for TL0-say TL18 (or even TL20) <BR>
would be good.<BR>
<BR>
>Another good point raised was that T4 was complete, just<BR>
>scatterbrained, errata-prone, and kind of unpolished.<BR>
<BR>
T4 is IMO  (with Marc's T4.1 drafts) one of the best implementations <BR>
of Traveller. The core system worked, and I regularly use it at cons <BR>
to introduce players, who like it. The problem it has (lousy editing <BR>
aside) is the association with Imperium Games, and all the rubbish <BR>
they produced (mainly from using some authors who didn't know the <BR>
background and not proof reading or playtesting other material).<BR>
<BR>
The argument against the half dice is just a cipher for peoples sense <BR>
of aesthetics. To me, it's no worse than using an D20 and D6s in the <BR>
same system. YMMV of course but I've not seen a problem with it.<BR>
<BR>
>T5 Lite on the web is an excellent idea.  It works for GURPS.<BR>
<BR>
Yes.<BR>
<BR>
>Another suggestion would be to have official ships + deckplans<BR>
>on the website in PDF format as well.  That way Travellers<BR>
>needn't worry about the publishing woes involved with Yet<BR>
>Another Starships book... in fact, it may be a great way to<BR>
>publish 'extra' starships, such as the Naval battleships which<BR>
>use the combat rules from the rulebooks.<BR>
<BR>
That would be a great idea...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:43:42 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
At 9:41 -0500 18/3/00,  houstonshocky@webtv.net wrote:<BR>
>Excerpt from book: p50<BR>
><BR>
>"The third part in the camp contained the buried nuclear reactor that<BR>
>supplied the power needed to run the base and make the liquid oxygen and<BR>
>hydrogen rocket fuel they were going to need to take off again.<BR>
>Fortunately, since the temperature on the surface of ICE never varied by<BR>
>more than a few degrees around 30K, there was no problem keeping the<BR>
>fuels in a liquid state. Since oxygen solidified at 55K, and hydrogen<BR>
>boiled at 20K, a small refrigerator unit that took heat from the<BR>
>hydrogen storage tank and put it into the oxygen storage tank sufficed<BR>
>to keep both fuels liquid."<BR>
<BR>
K is Kelvin, a scale where absolute zero is 0K, 0C is 273K; it isn't <BR>
'k' as in kilo, as in thousand.<BR>
<BR>
>k = kilo<BR>
>C = Celsius<BR>
Yes, Yes<BR>
>K = Calvin<BR>
<BR>
K=Kelvin, after Lord Kelvin.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:20:59 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
<BR>
	On 18 Mar 2000 15:05 (GMT +1300), rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:<BR>
>That's good coming from someone who seems to think  that using mixed <BR>
>metaphors is a sign of originality. "Served on a tablet" and "comparing <BR>
>apples with peaches" are not exactly wonderful turns of phrase.<BR>
<BR>
	I actually rather admired the "served on a tablet", though I don't know<BR>
whether it was intentional or inadvertent.  Email can be thought of as a<BR>
tablet delivered to its user.  Apples and peaches is not nearly so<BR>
whimsical as lots of things that we all post frequently.  John has been<BR>
trying hard to refrain from these attacks (two or three lapses) even though<BR>
there has been no end of baiting and taunting directed at him.  My own<BR>
opinions tend to be strongly opposed to his, but I still recognize that<BR>
some of the ideas and questions he has contributed have been useful and<BR>
interesting.  I don't care who started it, let's all end it.  Please.<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV:   Far Future flame wars and the nature of an interstellar internet.<BR>
 Although there is something akin to the Internet on most mid- and hi-TL<BR>
worlds, the jumps dividing worlds from each other prevent instantaneous<BR>
communication networks from bridging the stars in the same fashion.  Would<BR>
there be commercial traffic in archived data meant to be exchanged between<BR>
the 'Nets of different worlds?  It sounds infeasible to suppose that a few<BR>
free traders or subsidized liners or x-boats could be expected to carry the<BR>
sheer volume of usenet, web page, FTP site, mailing list, etc. updates on a<BR>
typical, well developed world.  Imagine that every public posting would<BR>
need to be flagged for what, if any, other worlds the author desires to<BR>
have it transported to, and that many mailing lists, etc. would exist in<BR>
different versions.  One version for local world, another one for say the<BR>
local jump main, another the sector, another for the domain, and other<BR>
possible permutations of the idea.  Costs to transport data through jump<BR>
space would tend to limit the number of users participating in off-world<BR>
discussions and web browsing(?)  Various locales would have various means<BR>
for determining who bears those costs.  Would interstellar flame wars still<BR>
exist?  Would they be more rare?  Take different forms from what we know?<BR>
Since the comm lag would be at least a week and possibly even years for<BR>
some participants, things could be awkward.  Users would desire smarter<BR>
software than we Internet users are accustomed to, in order to sort the<BR>
posts and threads intelligibly.  Language and cultural differences would<BR>
create lots of problems(?)  Imagine the threads on the vastly interstellar<BR>
version of metastellar.sci.archeaology.ancient-civs!  The one that has<BR>
Hiver, K'kree, Imperium  Imagine how long IP addresses and domain names<BR>
would be!  LOL<BR>
<BR>
	"The players are preparing to leave planet for their next trading stop and<BR>
hire a factor to help them locate cargos.  Of course, there is the usual<BR>
cargo offered of a 1,000 tons of shielded data crates from<BR>
InstellNet/Glisten to InstellNet/Mora, but the players' vessel doesn't have<BR>
that sort of capacity and they once again turn a data transportation cargo<BR>
down.  Maybe they should try their luck in a less populous sector, the<BR>
captain wonders to himself."<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:38:27 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
At 6:14 -0500 18/3/00, houstonshocky@webtv.net wrote:<BR>
>You should try to find the book<BR>
>"Camelot 30K" written by<BR>
>Robert L. Forward.<BR>
><BR>
>This book desribes first contact with an alien species living in the<BR>
>Oort Cloud. This is native life living at a temperature of -30,000 C<BR>
<BR>
But absolute zero is only -273C !<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:12:30 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Droyne Closers<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 12:23 AM<BR>
Subject: re: Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> No, there are plenty of closers in my Traveller universe of all<BR>
> species (but I suspect that you are talking about completely<BR>
> different things).<BR>
> <BR>
Yea. I'm talking of Closers as in "Openers vs. Closers".<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:39:46 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Closers<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:37 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 2:23 PM, Glenn Goffin gmgoffin@yahoo.com<BR>
> issued forth:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Duh. I don't know what either of you are talking about. Uh. What's a<BR>
> "closer"? <drool><snort><wipe><BR>
> <BR>
> Duh.... I think something just flew over my head.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The ones I'm talking of, are people from "A night in the lonesome october" by Zelaszny, who are trying to prevent the opening to this world by things man was not meant to know. (The name of the book could be wrong, I seem to have misplaced my copy.)<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:23:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
>Claimed Mongo from Ming ? :)<BR>
<BR>
To the contrary, I had the honor of claiming it on behalf of<BR>
Ming.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
HAIL MING!<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:27:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
<BR>
>I've had a writeup of Forboldn accepted by PYRAMID. Likewise an<BR>
<BR>
>adventure set on Grant. I was told that it could take as long <BR>
>as six months before they appear, but they are on the way.<BR>
<BR>
Grant gets a sidebar in a large-format magazine, but I don't<BR>
recall whether it's Challenge, Traveller's Digest, or<BR>
Megatraveller Journal.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:34:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: : RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
<BR>
>Correct me if I am wrong, but is fencing about punturing the<BR>
>heart with the point of the blade, while fighting with a sword <BR>
>(or braodsword) is about cutting with the blade (or bludgeoning<BR>
<BR>
>to death if the opponnent has armour or the sword is blunt) <BR>
<BR>
Fencing just means fighting with long blades, and includes<BR>
rather a wide variety of blades.  Even Thai, Japanese, and<BR>
Chinese blade combat is called fencing.  <BR>
<BR>
The usual European weapons are the following:<BR>
<BR>
The foil is a very light, pointed weapon designed to cause<BR>
damage by penetrating the presumably unarmored opponent.  (This<BR>
was my sport in college, but the points were blunt and had<BR>
little rubber things on them -- but a blade broken during a<BR>
lunge could be very dangerous.)  <BR>
<BR>
The epee is a somewhat heavier pointed weapon with the same<BR>
purpose.<BR>
<BR>
The saber/sabre is an edged weapon with a point, used primarily<BR>
for slashing but able to penetrate.  It varies in weight; sport<BR>
fencing sabers are very light.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:36:42 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legendary Potables<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Okay, IMTU, one of the player characters failed a survival roll in<BR>
> > chargen. My house rule was to replace chargen death with injury, and<BR>
> > resolve the injury on the tables in Central Casting: Heroes For<BR>
> > Tomorrow. Our hero got wounded in the throat and all but lost his<BR>
> > vocal cords; he was unable to speak in anything but a whisper.<BR>
> <BR>
> > So the characters soon wound up in this bar (big surprise there) and<BR>
> > the Whisperer In Jumpspace got served a drink called a "Dead-stick<BR>
> > Re-entry". Shortly after leaving the bar, he realized he could talk<BR>
> > normally, though his voice faded away again after a while. A quest<BR>
> > for the recipe for a Dead-stick Re-entry ensued; as it happened, the<BR>
> > one he was served was made with one wrong ingredient, and only that<BR>
> > particular combination of stuff would help his vocal cords. The<BR>
> > Quest was maintained as a subplot/diversion for some time thereafter....<BR>
> > -RUssell B<BR>
> <BR>
>     Hey Russ, this sounds interesting. Did you do up anything on what<BR>
> goes into the DSR and what it tastes like, etc?<BR>
<BR>
I did come up with a list of about six ingredients (some fairly <BR>
conventional, others obscure - everclear, babassu nut oil, a <BR>
splash of black mushroom brandy, etc., etc.) and even worked out <BR>
prices for the ingredients (some of them were more expensive <BR>
at one end of the cluster than at the other, etc.). It still might<BR>
all be on an index card somewhere. <BR>
<BR>
- -R<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:42:58 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Interstellar Internet?<BR>
<BR>
Laning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OBTRAV:   Far Future flame wars and the nature of an interstellar internet.<BR>
>  Although there is something akin to the Internet on most mid- and hi-TL<BR>
> worlds, the jumps dividing worlds from each other prevent instantaneous<BR>
> communication networks from bridging the stars in the same fashion.  Would<BR>
> there be commercial traffic in archived data meant to be exchanged between<BR>
> the 'Nets of different worlds?<BR>
<BR>
    While interstellar "web browsing" might be problematic, I suspect that something<BR>
akin to the good old FidoNet would probably exist.  Packets could be gathered,<BR>
compressed, and transmitted via the X-Boat and trader network.  You could have<BR>
empire-spanning discussions, albeit at a slow rate.  On the other hand, if you think<BR>
you get a lot of email *now*...<BR>
<BR>
    In fact, for those of you who think that a certain flame-war has gone on too long,<BR>
just think about what would happen with the above distribution network given that some<BR>
people might not get the original message for several months.  Imagine Doug and John<BR>
living on opposite ends of the 3I, exchanging messages every 4-5 months.  The wars<BR>
could drag on for *years*.<BR>
<BR>
    (Rumors that the Civil War was sparked by a flame-fest wherein Olav<BR>
hault-Plankwell referred to Empress Jacqueline I as "that pompous, batty old bag", and<BR>
said worthy responded with a description of the Grand Admiral as "an ignorant bumpkin<BR>
barely worthy of command of a garbage scow" are, of course, apocryphal.)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2137<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2138<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
Re: Legendary Potables<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Closers<BR>
Re: Closers<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS  83-1117)<BR>
Re: Closers<BR>
Deader than Disco<BR>
Re: Another OTU variant<BR>
Traveller News Service>Capital/Core                  <BR>
New Scientist Article<BR>
Need this answered FAST<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent  7 PCs<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:46:39 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
> worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
<BR>
And the Imperial Navy would consider that system just peachy for live<BR>
fire excercises. Perhaps complete with realistically simulated live fire<BR>
Marine landings and Army occupation. <BR>
<BR>
Or maybe the Emperor will just designate the system a Famille Spofulam<BR>
Testing Range.<BR>
<BR>
(Or, as the Road Rovers would say: "Go get 'em Muzzle!" <assorted<BR>
mayhem> "Eeeeewww...that's just awful!")<BR>
<BR>
Such a jihad woudn't get very far, not openly, at least.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:28:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legendary Potables<BR>
<BR>
> >     Hey Russ, this sounds interesting. Did you do up anything on what<BR>
> > goes into the DSR and what it tastes like, etc?<BR>
<BR>
> I did come up with a list of about six ingredients (some fairly<BR>
> conventional, others obscure - everclear, babassu nut oil, a<BR>
> splash of black mushroom brandy, etc., etc.) and even worked out<BR>
> prices for the ingredients (some of them were more expensive<BR>
> at one end of the cluster than at the other, etc.). It still might<BR>
> all be on an index card somewhere.<BR>
> -R<BR>
<BR>
If you run across it- please post :-)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:52:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>The foil is a very light, pointed weapon designed to cause <BR>
>damage by penetrating the presumably unarmored opponent.  <BR>
<BR>
Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
the point from penetrating?<BR>
<BR>
Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
(one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:59:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Montana Coverup<BR>
<BR>
>From: Damage169@cs.com<BR>
<BR>
>But the state of Montana doesn't exist. It's all a cover-up. <BR>
>After Wyoming lost its 1957 war with Canada, the US government <BR>
>denied it ever happened and designated the battlefield as the <BR>
>"state" of Montana. To support their cover-up, they set up an <BR>
>enormous organization of people to pretend to be from there, <BR>
>writing letters to their families saying they had moved there, <BR>
>etc. This was based out of Boise, Idaho (after all, there's no <BR>
>other reason for a city that size to be there, is there).<BR>
<BR>
I lived in Boise, Idaho, for many years, and this has long been<BR>
pretty much an open secret there.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:46:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>For Insidious atmospheres it suggest similar to<BR>
>>Corrosive but more so, and/or containing free Hydrogen,<BR>
>>Extreme Temperature (Venus) or high Radiation levels.<BR>
><BR>
>         How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
<BR>
The hydrogen molecule is *very* small. It'll *flow* thru seals that are<BR>
merely "airtight". It'll even leak thru solid metal if there's a decent<BR>
pressure differential. And in the process, it'll make a number of<BR>
metals quite brittle. And if there's oxygen on the other side of the<BR>
seal or other barrier, you now have a fire/explosion hazard once the<BR>
concentration of hydrogen inside gets high enough.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:10:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
>From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
<BR>
>Personally, I prefer Sirian (sometimes spelled "Syrian") <BR>
>Panther Sweat, from the "Stainless Steel Rat" books....<BR>
<BR>
There is real drink called Pokari Sweat.  I bought a can from<BR>
then vending machine at Seoul airport when I was there over a<BR>
year ago.  I was too curious:  what is a Pokari, and why would I<BR>
want to drink its sweat?  It turns out that it's a translation<BR>
problem.  The drink is supposed to replace electrolytes lost<BR>
through sweating; whoever chose the name didn't realize what a<BR>
negative impact it would have on Americans and Europeans.  It<BR>
tastes very strange, but not actually bad.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:15:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
 <BR>
>Duh. I don't know what either of you are talking about. Uh. <BR>
>What's a "closer"? <drool><snort><wipe> Duh.... I think <BR>
>something just flew over my head.<BR>
<BR>
Go rent Glengarry Glen Ross tonight.  You'll learn all about<BR>
closers.  The scene comes up very early.  <BR>
<BR>
It's a great movie, by the way, with terrific performances by Al<BR>
Pacino, Jack Lemmon, Ed Harris, Alan Arkin, Kevin Spacey, and<BR>
Alec Baldwin -- how much testerone can you put on one screen<BR>
with no car chases or gun battles?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:16:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
sorry, that should be "testosterone" -- I saw the typo going<BR>
out, but it was too late to stop it<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:51:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS  83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 12:46 PM 3/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
>> worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
><BR>
>And the Imperial Navy would consider that system just peachy for live<BR>
>fire excercises. Perhaps complete with realistically simulated live fire<BR>
>Marine landings and Army occupation. <BR>
<BR>
>Such a jihad woudn't get very far, not openly, at least.<BR>
<BR>
Two words: Branch Davidians.<BR>
<BR>
While not wanting to start that whole debate/rant, there would be foes of<BR>
the Empress with no qualms about playing up the horrible tragedy,<BR>
portraying Iphengia as a callous, horrid murderer, unable to understand,<BR>
due to her "perversion", how "normal" people feel about children.<BR>
<BR>
Don't laugh. I've been told that to my face. <BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying it would be likely, I was just intrigued.<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
Duke Norris Post of the Imperial Legion.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:29:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Closers<BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>The Brokerage Offices of Spinward Development<BR>
<BR>
DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:33:55 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Deader than Disco<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry puts out on the Ether:<BR>
>Well, this all assumes that the K'Kree commander has a reason *not* to burn<BR>
>the world to the bedrock. If he doesn't have such a reason, the characters<BR>
>are deader than disco.<BR>
<BR>
http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~adashiel/wod/archive/satchild.html<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I find this one of the most scary things I've seen for Mage.<BR>
However it would be fun to pull on Goth Mage players who take themselves <BR>
too seriously.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com  Opinions stated are those of the author's dog...<BR>
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was<BR>
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.<BR>
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:37:10 -0600<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconn@i1.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Another OTU variant<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
I heard that lizard tastes like chicken<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Pat Connaughton <BR>
ICQ # 2535086<BR>
pconn@i1.net<BR>
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>
how to reign"<BR>
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:38:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller News Service>Capital/Core                  <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you <BR>
>imagine the dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an<BR>
<BR>
>Archduchess and the heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't <BR>
>imagine that humanity will improve to the point where everyone <BR>
>would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
Why not?  3,000 years ago, Egyptians readily accepted Pharoahs<BR>
who were born of the union of brother and sister.  Who knows<BR>
what will happen in the next 3,000 years.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:36:30 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: New Scientist Article<BR>
<BR>
Hi all,<BR>
<BR>
The latest New Scientist (18 March 2000) has a section in the middle <BR>
(Inside Science) called 'Radiation and Risk', which looks like it may <BR>
be useful reading for background on how radiation can harm you and <BR>
the levels of doses. I don't know if their website duplicates this, <BR>
but if it does, I'd snag it.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser that suffered a boarding <BR>
>action during the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
>I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical <BR>
>resolutions given.<BR>
<BR>
Bard Endeavor, Second Battle of Kagukhasaggan?  Bow decks<BR>
destroyed; Solomani boarded and attempted to salvage before the<BR>
ship entered the atmosphere of the planet, but the Marines held<BR>
them off until the Solomani boarding party withdrew.  Most or<BR>
all of the Marines were aboard and died during catastrophic<BR>
reentry.  <BR>
<BR>
Caveat lector:  I'm really not sure if that's the ship or the<BR>
battle, or if I've spelled the name of the battle correctly. <BR>
It's in the Azhanti High Lightning game, which I own, but don't<BR>
have here at the office.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:19:50 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
"Fencing just means fighting with long blades, and includes<BR>
rather a wide variety of blades.  Even Thai, Japanese, and<BR>
Chinese blade combat is called fencing.<BR>
<BR>
"The usual European weapons are the following:..."<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, here are my observations on Japanese fencing of a particular kind,<BR>
based on about one year of aikido weapons practice:<BR>
<BR>
Because the Japanese weapons (commonly, the katana--shorter blade about 1m<BR>
from point to the end of the handle, and tachi--up to 5 feet long, IIRC) are<BR>
so deadly, Japanese fencing styles center around getting one clear cut,<BR>
preferably at the head or neck. Even against an armoured oppenent, this<BR>
would usually do the trick.<BR>
<BR>
The blades of Japanese weapons are extremely sharp and hold their edge for<BR>
long periods of time (again, IIRC, you only needed to have the blade<BR>
polished every couple of years. Too much polishing would eventually weaken<BR>
the blade.) due to the several thousand foldings of the blade that occur<BR>
during forging. However, the edge is unable to take a blow from another<BR>
weapon without chipping. For this reason, Japanese swords are single-edged,<BR>
with a false edge running on top of the point. Such blocking as occurs is<BR>
always done on the flat or back of the blade. (There are names for every<BR>
part of the blade, from tip to the tang, but I never learned them.)<BR>
<BR>
While conventional wisdom was that the person who struck first usually won,<BR>
this was not always correct. Since aikido is based on redirecting your<BR>
opponent's energy against him, we were trained to receive the attack. My<BR>
sensei even used to tell us sometimes to stick our heads out, inviting a<BR>
strike at them.<BR>
<BR>
There is parrying, but not of the kind we associate with Three Musketeers<BR>
movies :) Most are designed to deflect an opponent's energy away from you<BR>
while simultaneously setting up your own strike--one basic posture is to<BR>
hold the sword with its flat side parallel to the ground; when your oppenent<BR>
strikes, he hits the flat of the sword, allowing you to wrap it around your<BR>
back and into position for an overhand strike, all while stepping back,<BR>
giving you a clear shot at his head while you are no longer at the proper<BR>
angle for him to hit.<BR>
<BR>
There are also, of course, many unarmed techniques designed around disarming<BR>
your opponent, all of which were quite nasty to practice :) One incredibly<BR>
basic aikido unarmed defense--the Japanese name meant "first pinning<BR>
technique"--was actually evolved to rotate the arm of an armored man so that<BR>
his armpit was exposed, allowing you to stab it.<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV: Just what fencing styles are common in the Imperium? Is the fencing<BR>
skill in T4 meant only to apply to light epee/foil weapons? The mechanics<BR>
seemed to be just as applicable to anyone with a decent level of larger<BR>
blade skill.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:30:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
<BR>
Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason to<BR>
have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is perfectly<BR>
possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 (or worse)?<BR>
<BR>
Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back when the<BR>
imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:33:57 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Smith, Walter wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> >The foil is a very light, pointed weapon designed to cause<BR>
> >damage by penetrating the presumably unarmored opponent.<BR>
> <BR>
> Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
> than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
> the point from penetrating?<BR>
<BR>
Not if it was a sharpened point. A sharp foil ought to go through<BR>
chainmail (unless it's exceedingly fine chainmail) like it's not there.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
> (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
> bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor<BR>
> made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
<BR>
I saw someone demonstrate this once. Some musclebound SCA doofus was<BR>
going on about how great his mail shirt was (out of earshot of the more<BR>
experienced members), it would stop anything short of a bullet, and<BR>
offered to let one of the people with a bow shoot him to demonstrate.<BR>
<BR>
They told him take it off and put it on a dummy. He declined. They<BR>
insisted, and after much cajoling he finally relented.<BR>
<BR>
He kinda blanched when he saw that arrow go through the front, through<BR>
the dummy and stick a foot out the back.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the bowman cheated and used a field arrow, which is about<BR>
3/8ths of an inch in diameter, but the lesson took hold nontheless.<BR>
<BR>
He didn't brag about how tough his armor was anymore. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:40:22 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
> > Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
> > than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
> > the point from penetrating?<BR>
> <BR>
> Not if it was a sharpened point. A sharp foil ought to go through<BR>
> chainmail (unless it's exceedingly fine chainmail) like it's not there.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, a foil would have a tendency to break if used as a weapon, chainmail<BR>
or no.<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
> > (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
> > bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor<BR>
> > made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
> <BR>
> I saw someone demonstrate this once. Some musclebound SCA doofus was<BR>
> going on about how great his mail shirt was (out of earshot of the more<BR>
> experienced members), it would stop anything short of a bullet, and<BR>
> offered to let one of the people with a bow shoot him to demonstrate.<BR>
<BR>
It is worth noting that SCA chainmail is by and large extremely low quality.<BR>
Historical evidence is that chainmail was reasonably effective against arrows.<BR>
However, most historical archery was not done at close ranges in any case;<BR>
a bow at close range will penetrate essentially any medieval armor, and<BR>
most modern armor.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:48:18 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason to<BR>
>have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is <BR>
>perfectly possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 <BR>
>(or worse)?<BR>
><BR>
>Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back <BR>
>when the imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
<BR>
This has definitely been a contentious bit for the X-Boat discussions.<BR>
<BR>
There is a conspiracy theory that the Imperial government - which,<BR>
canonically, *does* maintain a Jump-6 communications network - <BR>
is deliberately keeping the public courier routes restricted to Jump-4<BR>
or less, so that Imperial agents, Nobles and Admirals will have access<BR>
to better information than the rest of the populace. How to keep such<BR>
a thing secret, I leave to the interested participant.<BR>
<BR>
Another item would be availability of maintenance facilities. The lower<BR>
tech the item, the easier it should be to find or build maintenance<BR>
facilities that can handle it. Tech level 15 is the usual maximum for<BR>
the 3I, and not that many worlds attain that. Tech level 13 is more<BR>
common, thus making the support of those uncounted thousands<BR>
of X-Boats easier to perform.<BR>
<BR>
(It's quite likely that the Scout Service has only a rough idea, at any<BR>
particular time, of how many X-Boats are in service and where they<BR>
are. As you go from offices in Core to more and more local offices,<BR>
the data for that region becomes more accurate while data on other<BR>
regions becomes less accurate. By the time local data reaches the<BR>
Core, it is of course quite out of date.)<BR>
<BR>
Another idea is that Jump-6 couriers are in service, and that the X-Boat<BR>
routes simply show the most common routes taken. If two worlds along<BR>
the X-Boat route are jump-6 apart, then there will be Jump-6 couriers<BR>
making direct jumps between the two, even if lower-jump ships are<BR>
serving worlds between the two. I'm not much for this idea myself,<BR>
but I could see two high-tech worlds in such a situation establishing<BR>
their *own* direct courier service.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:54:09 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> wrote<BR>
> Subject: Re:<BR>
> <BR>
> Peter Newman writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > By its [Special Supplement 2] definitions Exotic atmospheres <BR>
> > will not have a<BR>
> >fairly normal temperature & pressure range.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
>         It has always been my understanding that Exotic atmospheres (type A)<BR>
>         require only an oxygen mask.  Thus, IMTU such atmospheres have the<BR>
>         same temperature and pressure range that I allow Atm 2-9.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, the above is a typo & should say _will_ have a fairly<BR>
normal temperature & pressure range. "The world in question<BR>
will be more or less earthlike in everything but atmosphere."<BR>
[Ct Spec Sup 2 Exotic Atmospheres p. 4] <BR>
<BR>
> >For Insidious atmospheres it suggest similar to<BR>
> >Corrosive but more so, and/or containing free Hydrogen,<BR>
> >Extreme Temperature (Venus) or high Radiation levels.<BR>
> <BR>
>         How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
<BR>
Corrosive means capable of defeating all protective<BR>
measure [in 2d6 hours IIRC]. Since free Hydrogen "atoms <BR>
are so small that they can seep right through fabrics, <BR>
plastic, and even solid metal in a process known as <BR>
diffusion. An air-tight seal is not necessarily <BR>
hydrogen-tight....hydrogen and oxygen which <BR>
come together combine explosively. A spark can cause an<BR>
explosion..." [p. 9-10] Ship hulls and building<BR>
walls can be sealed against hydrogen leakage - Vacc<BR>
Suits can not.<BR>
<BR>
I've often wondered if the "fuel loss" combat damage hits<BR>
aren't too lenient given the volatility of hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
Can one of you science experts out there tell me if a <BR>
laser hit on a ship which cuts through a fuel tank and<BR>
the compartments behind it will cause the hydrogen to heat<BR>
up enough that explosions will be likely?<BR>
<BR>
Could this be a possible cause of the "ship explodes"<BR>
critical hit?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:53:55 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>Actually, a foil would have a tendency to break if used as a weapon, <BR>
>chainmail or no.<BR>
<BR>
I'm probably getting my terms mixed up here. Is a "foil" a sport fencing<BR>
weapon, not intended for real combat, while the real weapon it is<BR>
based on (a rapier?) is different?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:56:19 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent  7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
At 14:43 -0500 20/3/00, "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu> wrote:<BR>
>The K'Kree commander doesn't have to necessarily burn the whole world.<BR>
>He just needs to be willing to, say, burn an area the size of<BR>
>Montana. Centered on where they think the Magnificent Seven are.<BR>
>Repeat as necessary.<BR>
<BR>
<subtle plug for forthcoming BITS book><BR>
<BR>
You guys are just going to *love* 'SpaceDogs II: The Return of the <BR>
Magnificent SpaceDogs!'. Let's just say that the current topic may <BR>
verge close to a plot line for our 6 doggy heros....<BR>
<BR>
</subtle plug for forthcoming BITS book><BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:10:22 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Cc: gridlore@pop.mindspring.com <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Date: 20 March 2000 20:56<BR>
Subject: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser that suffered a boarding<BR>
>>action during the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
>>I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical<BR>
>>resolutions given.<BR>
><BR>
>Bard Endeavor, Second Battle of Kagukhasaggan?  Bow decks<BR>
>destroyed; Solomani boarded and attempted to salvage before the<BR>
>ship entered the atmosphere of the planet, but the Marines held<BR>
>them off until the Solomani boarding party withdrew.  Most or<BR>
>all of the Marines were aboard and died during catastrophic<BR>
>reentry.<BR>
><BR>
>Caveat lector:  I'm really not sure if that's the ship or the<BR>
>battle, or if I've spelled the name of the battle correctly.<BR>
>It's in the Azhanti High Lightning game, which I own, but don't<BR>
>have here at the office.<BR>
><BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Doug,<BR>
<BR>
Following on from Glenn's excellent memory, here is a scanned copy of the<BR>
relevant scenario from p27 of the AHL Rules Booklet as well as further<BR>
details of the Bard Endeavour from p6 of Supp5: Lightning Class Cruisers.<BR>
<BR>
Ship Details:<BR>
<BR>
Bard Endeavour (FI-6333)<BR>
Laid Down: 132-991<BR>
First Flight: 041-994<BR>
Builder: Yard 17<BR>
<BR>
The Scenario Background:<BR>
- -------------------------------------<BR>
INCIDENT 1 - The Battle of Kagukhasaggan 2 Year of the Imperium 1002<BR>
<BR>
The Loss of the Bard Endeavour: In the closing stages of the Solomani Rim<BR>
War, an Imperial task force built around the fleet intruder Bard Endeavour<BR>
was ambushed while refuelling in the Kagukhasaggan system by the Solomani<BR>
dreadnought Retaliation and a large number of accompanying warships,<BR>
together forming Strike Force Daring. Several of the smaller Imperial<BR>
escorts in the high guard position were destroyed covering the disengagement<BR>
of the Imperial task force from the system's gas giant's gravity well and<BR>
those ships already refuelled headed out-system at maximum G's to make a<BR>
jump. To cover the withdrawal, the Bard Endeavour (its tanks nearly dry)<BR>
remained behind to delay the enemy and sell itself as dearly as possible.<BR>
<BR>
The heroic stand of the Bard Endeavour enabled most of the task force to<BR>
escape, but left the fleet intruder a glowing wreck in decaying orbit over<BR>
Kagukhasaggan 2, one of the small inner worlds of the system. Those crew<BR>
still living began evacuating the doomed vessel, although many were cut off<BR>
in the interior of the stricken vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Within an hour most of the survivors were off and many had been picked up by<BR>
Solomani vessels in the area. Interrogation of the drive room crew survivors<BR>
indicated that the jump drives were not damaged beyond repair and that<BR>
enough fuel remained for a very short in-system jump. Although there was a<BR>
greater than 60% chance of a catastrophic mis-jump from a position that deep<BR>
in the gravity well, Vice-Admiral Smith, commander of the Solomani strike<BR>
force decided that the risks were worth it if only a small force of<BR>
volunteers were involved. Recovery of the Bard Endeavour relatively intact<BR>
with its high amperage tritium accelerator and sophisticated meson screens<BR>
could mean the difference between victory and defeat for the Solomani<BR>
independence movement.<BR>
<BR>
Three strike teams were quickly assembled. One would enter through the rear<BR>
doors of the boat dock deck, clear the jump drive decks, and repair the jump<BR>
drives, if possible. A second team would force their way into the ship via<BR>
the fighter recovery lock on deck 69 to cripple the four remaining<BR>
operational fighters on board (and prevent their use against the Bard<BR>
Endeavour in an Imperial last-ditch effort to prevent enemy recovery of the<BR>
ship). A third part would force the air locks on deck 41 (the upper power<BR>
plant deck) and clear deck 40 immediately above it. Everything forward of<BR>
the third fuel area (deck 26 to 34) was either flooded with liquid hydrogen<BR>
or heavily irradiated, thus eliminating the running bridge from<BR>
consideration. A small emergency crew was known to be on the auxiliary<BR>
bridge, however, directing the evacuation, and they would have to be dealt<BR>
with before the jump.<BR>
<BR>
The assault went according to plan initially, and both the hangar deck and<BR>
the bridge assault parties gained their objectives. A handful of marines and<BR>
crewmen of the Bard Endeavour, however, resisted complete clearance of the<BR>
jump drive decks and prevented salvage of the ship. The bridge party did<BR>
manage to extract a number of valuable operational codes from the ship's<BR>
computer and the strike teams evacuated. Three hours later the Imperial<BR>
Fleet Intruder Bard Endeavour, with 43 of her defenders still aboard,<BR>
suffered catastrophic re-entry into the atmosphere of Kagukhasaggan 2.<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Note: I cannot locate Kagukhasaggan in the Solomani Rim, or by using<BR>
Galactic...<BR>
<BR>
HTH<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
(BTW I posted this to the list rather than direct to Doug, as it may be<BR>
useful for adapting into a scenario in your own games if you don't have AHL.<BR>
Apologies for the length)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2138<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2139</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2139<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Dave hypen rides again<BR>
101 Robots and other Trav Stuff on Ebay<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service>Capital/Core<BR>
Re: Interstellar Internet?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:07:29 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:33:26   Stormhound wrote:<BR>
>Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Or, "Oh my god, it's full of penguins!"<BR>
><BR>
>    That would certainly be ample explanation for the deadly nature of jump<BR>
>space.  Especially if they're all carrying FGPPs.<BR>
><BR>
>    Though if it's full of penguins, perhaps we should rename it "waddle<BR>
>space".<BR>
<BR>
No way, it can't be full of penguins! Penguins can't jump!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:14:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hi!<BR>
><BR>
> Does anyone know the reason why our star charts have this funny 8 parsecs x<BR>
> 10 parsecs format? I would like to know both in-universe explanations and<BR>
> the True Story (which Loren can tell u?) of what took place back in the<BR>
> 70's at GDW.<BR>
<BR>
It's what fit easily and *legibly* on the 5.5"x8.5" pages in the<BR>
original books.<BR>
<BR>
> My bet on an in-universe explanation: Some Vilani bureaucrat decided to map<BR>
> space somehow and used a 8 jump distances x 8 jump distances square (since<BR>
> a square is a logical choice, IMO). This was passed to his superior, then<BR>
> to her superior again, etc, and somehow those 2 parsecs at the height must<BR>
> have been added somewhen in the process...<BR>
<BR>
My bet is it's what fit easily on a computer screen, with a "key" next<BR>
to it or under it. And yes, his means, that Vilani computer screens are<BR>
"portrait mode" rather than "landscape mode".<BR>
<BR>
Or it could just be convenient for a pocket sized reference guide. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, a series of near future stories about Belters that Pournelle and<BR>
Sheffield(?) are working on make the point that in emergencies, an<BR>
actual printed manual is far better than a computerized reference,<BR>
simply because it's more *rugged*. Anything that'll destroy the book<BR>
will have killed *you*. Temp, radiation, physical shock, they'll all<BR>
clobber electronics before they clobber humans. But printed words and<BR>
diagrams will survive.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:11:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Scout Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> No way, it can't be full of penguins! Penguins can't jump!<BR>
<BR>
These penguins are all strapped to jump torps.<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:43:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:09 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
>>>They smell you. And they don't mind dying for the Herd. <BR>
>><BR>
>>Thus an anti-K'Kree force needs some sort of olfactory masking<BR>
>>capability, and/or some form of olfactory "jamming".<BR>
><BR>
> Like the stuff that deer hunters use? I could see it until you really start<BR>
> sweating.<BR>
<BR>
So you take pills that change your odor...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:45:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Douglas again:<BR>
>>Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both <BR>
>>decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree <BR>
>>fears. A nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick. <BR>
><BR>
> And hope that the K'Kree commanders don't decide that an equitorial<BR>
> desert belt would suit their purposes better on this planet than<BR>
> the current triple-canopy rain forest does.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the K'kree will be at a *major* disadvantage in a desert. Not<BR>
only do they have to bring in huge amounts of food, but they need even<BR>
more water than humans do (given the *type* of herbivore they are).<BR>
<BR>
Hardpan desert would be bad news for the humans. Hard firm ground is<BR>
great for trotting on, even if it is a bit hard of hooves (padded<BR>
"shoes" will solve this for the K'kree). And there's no place to hide.<BR>
<BR>
But dune seas will be a nightmare for the K'kree. They'll have an even<BR>
*worse* time walking than humans do, and the humans can hide by digging<BR>
down a meter or so in the sand...<BR>
<BR>
Forest terrain favors humans. So do snowfields. K'kree snowshoes are a<BR>
bad joke. Ditto for skis. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, rain forest is actually quite *open* terrain. The shade kills<BR>
almost all the undergrowth. So other than the tree trunks, it's quite<BR>
open. What most people think of as "jungle" is only found at the<BR>
*edges* or in places where the rain forest is recovering from damage.<BR>
<BR>
Pine forest is pretty open as well, because the pine needles kill many<BR>
sorts of undergrowth.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:16:12 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
> Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> >Actually, a foil would have a tendency to break if used as a weapon, <BR>
> >chainmail or no.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm probably getting my terms mixed up here. Is a "foil" a sport fencing<BR>
> weapon, not intended for real combat, while the real weapon it is<BR>
> based on (a rapier?) is different?<BR>
A foil is a light sport fencing weapon.  The real weapon it's based on is<BR>
the smallsword, which is closer in weight to the epee (which is also a sport<BR>
fencing weapon, but is heavier).  A smallsword is basically a short rapier.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:15:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Note: I cannot locate Kagukhasaggan in the Solomani Rim, or by using<BR>
> Galactic...<BR>
<BR>
There is a system called Kaguk a few parsecs from Terra, however.<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:12:33 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Eric T. Holmes wrote:<BR>
> Fellow TMLers:<BR>
> <BR>
> Have completed Eqqus::Lanth::Spinward Marches 2417  B55A858-B S Wa  202 Im<BR>
>   F6 v    M5 d<BR>
> as well as secondary world at binary.  The Binary separation was almost a<BR>
> light year based upon<BR>
> World Builder Deluxe v5<BR>
> <BR>
> World is mapped, populated, etc.  Will email scans and info to those<BR>
> interested.<BR>
<BR>
I'm interested. Please send me a copy. <BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
 <BR>
> Eric<BR>
> <BR>
> eholmes@lanl.gov 			holmberg@thuntek.net <BR>
> 7am to 4pm Mountain Time 	6pm to Midnight Mountain Time<BR>
> <BR>
> IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,<BR>
> pi+, ta+, <BR>
> 		as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_ <BR>
> 			(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)<BR>
> <BR>
> Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:24:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Dave hypen rides again<BR>
<BR>
>Now if he could just get around to updating the Jump Points page ;)  I love<BR>
>that thing, but it's starting to show it's age....<BR>
<BR>
Hear, hear, I am in total agreement with that statement.<BR>
<BR>
There are too many useful Traveller sites that just aren't updated often<BR>
enough.<BR>
<BR>
Hyphen's Jump Points and the Missouri Archive spring immediately to mind.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:30:37 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: 101 Robots and other Trav Stuff on Ebay<BR>
<BR>
Fellow Sophonts,<BR>
<BR>
There's a copy of 101 Robots on eBay right now, running at $7.30 last <BR>
I checked, in case you're interested. The URL is:<BR>
<BR>
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=288135929<BR>
<BR>
or<BR>
<BR>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=288135929<BR>
<BR>
Check out the seller's other auctions, which also includes other DGP <BR>
and GDW Traveller products, including Vilani & Vargr. A search for <BR>
Traveller revealed a lot of other products out there as well, for <BR>
each rulesset.<BR>
<BR>
Thought you might enjoy,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 1+3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:35:28 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
> >Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
> <BR>
> Never be accepted. As I recall, Dulinor's brother was the Admiral of the<BR>
> Fleet for Illeish. He'd be a good choice.<BR>
<BR>
The problem with that was that Dulinor's brother was in <BR>
on Dulinor's plot to kill Strephon. [At least in the<BR>
MT universe and their are _strong_ implications in earlier<BR>
TNS stories that he was in on the plot in the GURPS Trav <BR>
universe as well], as was the commander of the Illelish <BR>
regiment of the Imperial Guard.<BR>
<BR>
The evidence clearly suggests (see TNS stories below)<BR>
that the Imperial government has already killed both <BR>
Dulinor himself and Imperial Guard of Illelish Commander <BR>
Enera. Logic suggests that Admiral Illethian is next. <BR>
(assuming he has not been killed already) The Admiral <BR>
has already been forced to resign his omission. He has <BR>
an "aide" who is presumably his keeper. Pay special <BR>
attention to the third paragraph below where it is said <BR>
that the Admiral has been "ill" the last few days.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine how badly you would have torture someone so that<BR>
the marks were unconcealable on camera given medical <BR>
advances at Traveller tech levels. Notice that his "aide"<BR>
is, from his name hault-Musillo, likely to be from a Noble<BR>
family himself. I guess Strephon would prefer that Nobles<BR>
die at the hands of other Nobles.<BR>
<BR>
Dlan/Ilelish (1021-A8D1ADE-G)                  244-1116<BR>
<BR>
Sector Admiral Hutara Astrin Ilethian, brother of the late Archduke Dulinor<BR>
of Ilelish, has announced that he is resigning his commission, effective<BR>
immediately. In a short press release read by the admiral's newly-appointed<BR>
aide, Lieutenant Tadashi Conacht hault-Musillo, the admiral stated that he is<BR>
resigning in order to devote his full attention to the management of the<BR>
family lands and business interests now that his niece has been appointed Archduchess<BR>
in her father's place.<BR>
The admiral stated that his niece would now be busy with government duties,<BR>
and would no longer be able to devote the time necessary to keep the various<BR>
Ilethian family interests running properly.<BR>
Asked why the admiral had not made the announcement himself, the lieutenant<BR>
stated that the admiral has been ill the last few days, and while he was<BR>
well on his way to recovery, his doctors felt the added strain of a public<BR>
appearance might delay his recovery. <BR>
<BR>
Medurma/Sapphyre                  60-1117<BR>
Police officials investigating into the death of Colonel Hiroshi Enera,<BR>
former commander of the Ilelish Regiment of the Imperial Guard, have<BR>
uncovered evidence eliminating any possibility that the retired officer's<BR>
death was suicide.<BR>
<BR>
Medurma/Sapphyre                  039-1117<BR>
<BR>
The body of Hiroshi Enera, former commander of the Ilelish Regiment of the<BR>
Imperial Guard, was found in a highport hotel room earlier today, dead of a<BR>
single pistol shot to the head.<BR>
Colonel Enera and several other officers of the Ilelish Guard resigned<BR>
under mysterious circumstances last year. Enera had spent a few weeks in<BR>
Capital after<BR>
his resignation and then booked a passage to his home on Dlan. Local<BR>
authorities were unable to comment on the death, except to say that they<BR>
are investigating<BR>
it as a possible homicide, but that suicide cannot be eliminated as a cause.<BR>
<BR>
Capital/Core                  365-1116<BR>
<BR>
General Mueni Arap Rutan, commanding officer of the Imperial Guard,<BR>
announced the appointment of Colonel Murnas DeAngelo as commander of the<BR>
Ilelish Regiment of the Imperial Guard. The appointment of Colonel<BR>
DeAngelo, former executive officer of the Antares Regiment of the Imperial Guard,<BR>
finally fills the vacancy created with the retirement of Colonel Hiroshi<BR>
Enera earlier this year. The regiment spent the intervening time under the personal<BR>
command of General Rutan. <BR>
There remain three other vacancies in the Ilelish Regiment, also created by<BR>
unexpected retirements earlier in the year, but neither General Rutan nor<BR>
Colonel DeAngelo would comment on how soon those positions would be filled.<BR>
<BR>
Capital/Core (2118-A586A98-F)                  356-1116<BR>
<BR>
The Imperial Navy has issued a report on its investigation of Archduke<BR>
Dulinor's death, ending several months of speculation. The report concludes that<BR>
Dulinor was killed on 131-1116 when the gig on which he was a passenger<BR>
vanished in a massive explosion. The report further states that, in the<BR>
opinion of the<BR>
investigators, the explosion was intentional, and represents an act of<BR>
assassination by a party or parties unknown.<BR>
Investigators could not find any remains, but DNA extracted from tissues<BR>
recovered from the wreckage was conclusively identified as being Dulinor's. The<BR>
report also concludes that one or more of Dulinor's assassins also perished<BR>
in the explosion, but is unable to reach any conclusion on whether this was a<BR>
deliberate act of suicide.<BR>
<BR>
Dlan/Ilelish (1021-A8D1ADE-G)                  265-1116<BR>
<BR>
What started as a minor protest rally at the government center on Dlan<BR>
escalated into a major civil confrontation between police and local<BR>
citizens. A large crowd protesting what they called the Imperial Navy's<BR>
cover-up of events surrounding Archduke Dulinor's death assembled without a<BR>
permit and became hostile when ordered to disperse.<BR>
<BR>
Capital/Core (2118-A586A98-F)                  152-1116<BR>
<BR>
The monthly changing of the guard at the Imperial Palace took place today,<BR>
but palace watchers say the ceremony is a little late.<BR>
"Every day when the Emperor enters the Long Hall on his way to the Iridium<BR>
throne, he is preceded by an honor party of the guard. On the first day of the<BR>
week, the honor party always wears battle dress instead of the normal full<BR>
dress uniform. The Illelish Guard's battle dress has a black stripe<BR>
outlining their right plastron - the Antares Guard is blank. It's a subtle<BR>
difference, but it's there for anyone with halfway decent eyes."<BR>
What does it all mean? "It's a speculation, but I think the Ilelish Guard<BR>
were pulled from duty so they could mourn their Archduke. It's highly<BR>
unusual, but it's not completely unknown. The last time something like this<BR>
happened was in the reign of Arbellatra in 632." <BR>
<BR>
Capital/Core (2118-A586A98-F)                           132-1116<BR>
<BR>
In a tersely-worded press release issued today, General Mueni Arap Rutan,<BR>
commanding officer of the Imperial Guard, announced that Colonel Hiroshi Enera,<BR>
commander of the Ilelish Regiment of the Imperial Guard, and three other<BR>
officers of the same regiment have submitted their resignations to the Emperor,<BR>
effective immediately. <BR>
None of the officers could be reached for comment, and General Rutan<BR>
refused to comment further except to say that the officers involved had all<BR>
cited personal<BR>
reasons for their resignations. <BR>
The Ilelish Regiment was serving its normal month-long period as honor<BR>
guards in the Imperial palace when the resignations occurred, and continues<BR>
to serve<BR>
in that position. No replacements have been appointed to the vacancies thus<BR>
created - the regiment is currently the personal command of General Rutan. A<BR>
political motivation for the resignations is suspected, but no comments<BR>
from anyone involved have been forthcoming. <BR>
<BR>
Capital/Core (2118-A586A98-F)                           131-1116<BR>
FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH<BR>
<BR>
Archduke Dulinor Astrin Ilethian was killed today when his personal gig was<BR>
destroyed in a massive explosion of unknown origin. The gig was inbound to the<BR>
palace from Dulinor's flagship, the cruiser Sargon, when it failed to<BR>
change course in response to traffic control instructions, and then<BR>
vanished in a massive fireball while in deep space. <BR>
<BR>
TNS stories are copyright SJG under license from Far<BR>
Future enterprises. Stories above are from the website<BR>
below and were used without permission, no challenge<BR>
to copyright is intended<BR>
 <BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/traveller/oldnews.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:37:50 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Note: I cannot locate Kagukhasaggan in the Solomani Rim, or by using<BR>
> Galactic...<BR>
<BR>
I suspect this is probably Kaguk/Sol, a reasonable place for a flint<BR>
boat to be at the end of the Rim War.  As I recall, the back of the<BR>
box also had some chrome related to this scenario, including a briefing<BR>
and an exhortation from Admiral Smith to his boarders.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:41:39<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
At 01:45 PM 3/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>BTW, rain forest is actually quite *open* terrain. The shade kills<BR>
>almost all the undergrowth. So other than the tree trunks, it's quite<BR>
>open. What most people think of as "jungle" is only found at the<BR>
>*edges* or in places where the rain forest is recovering from damage.<BR>
<BR>
But it *stinks* to high heaven. help keep curious noses at bay.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:44:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller than <BR>
>the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop the <BR>
>point from penetrating?<BR>
<BR>
One, the defender may be wearing more than one layer of chain<BR>
mail, making penetration between links very problematic (as the<BR>
mail layers move with respect to one another).<BR>
<BR>
Two, the padded undergarment would probably stop the point, but<BR>
it depends on the stiffness of the foil and the hardness of the<BR>
undergarment.<BR>
<BR>
>Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and <BR>
>Ladies_ (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened<BR>
<BR>
>by a bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was<BR>
<BR>
>armor made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of <BR>
>view is.<BR>
<BR>
It was probably the right call for the wrong reason.  Some<BR>
hand-drawn bows will penetrate some plate armor (the longbows at<BR>
Agincourt come to mind), let alone chain mail.  An arrow is<BR>
probably not going to fit between the links, and even if it did,<BR>
the archer would have to be even more accurate than the foil<BR>
user discussed above. <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:45:58 -0600<BR>
From: "L. Gerholz" <milo@winternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser that suffered a boarding action during<BR>
> the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
> <BR>
> I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical resolutions<BR>
> given.<BR>
> --<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Supplement 5: Lightning Class Cruisers, p.10<BR>
     "_Bard Endeavour_ (FI-6333) ... an abortive attempt by the Solomani<BR>
to salvage the ship for their cause failed."<BR>
<BR>
Rules Booklet, Azhanti High Lightning, p.27<BR>
     "The Battle of Kagukhasaggan 2     Year of the Imperium 1002<BR>
     <BR>
     In the closing stages of the Solomani Rim War, an Imperial task<BR>
force built around the fleet intruder _Bard Endeavour_ was ambushed<BR>
while refueling in the<BR>
Kagukhasaggan system by the Solomani dreadnought _Retaliation_ and a<BR>
large number<BR>
of accompanying warships, together forming Strike Force Daring...<BR>
     <BR>
     The heroic stand of the _Bard Endeavour_ enabled most of the task<BR>
force to<BR>
escape, but left the fleet intruder a glowing wreck in decaying orbit<BR>
over<BR>
Kagukhasaggan 2, one of the small inner worlds of the system. Those crew<BR>
still<BR>
living began evacuating the doomed vessel, although many were cut off in<BR>
the interior of the stricken vessel.<BR>
     <BR>
     ...Interrogation of the drive room crew survivors indicated that<BR>
the jump<BR>
drives were not damaged beyond repair, and that enough fuel remained for<BR>
a very short in-system jump.<BR>
     <BR>
     ... The assault went according to plan initially, and both the<BR>
hangar deck<BR>
and the bridge assault parties gained their objectives. A handful of<BR>
marines and<BR>
crewmen of the _Bard Endeavour_, however, resisted complete clearance of<BR>
the<BR>
jump drive decks and prevented salvage of the ship. The bridge party did<BR>
manage<BR>
to extract a number of valuable operational codes from the ship's<BR>
computer and the strike teams evacuated. Three hours later the Imperial<BR>
Fleet Intruder _Bard<BR>
Endeavour_, with 43 of her defenders still aboard, suffered catastrophic<BR>
reentry<BR>
into the atmosphere of Kagukhasaggan 2."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps. If you need the complete text, let me know.<BR>
<BR>
Craig Tsuchiya<BR>
milo@winternet.com<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"Being bright does not grant an immunity to doing idiotic<BR>
things; more like, it just enlarges the possible scope."<BR>
     -- Lois McMaster Bujold<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:51:29 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to claim Dojodo 3223 Spinward Marches.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:06:57 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> > And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
> > >Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Never be accepted. As I recall, Dulinor's brother was the Admiral of the<BR>
> > Fleet for Illeish. He'd be a good choice.<BR>
> <BR>
> The problem with that was that Dulinor's brother was in<BR>
> on Dulinor's plot to kill Strephon. [At least in the<BR>
> MT universe and their are _strong_ implications in earlier<BR>
> TNS stories that he was in on the plot in the GURPS Trav<BR>
> universe as well], as was the commander of the Illelish<BR>
> regiment of the Imperial Guard.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Unless Dulinor lives. In that case he (and his agents) could be busy<BR>
shutting down all the vestiges of the former plot, including his<BR>
brother.<BR>
<BR>
This could be an interesting, twisted plot for a espionage/blackops<BR>
campaign. Dulinor is still alive, perhaps with evidence that the Emperor<BR>
had him killed. If the only evidence of the former plot is just in<BR>
Dulinor's head, he can make Strephon out to be the homicidal maniac.<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor is in hiding waiting for the scars and injuries to heal. When he<BR>
deems the time right he quietly contacts other Dukes he might trust,<BR>
with incontrovertable 'evidence' that Strephon tried to have him killed.<BR>
If Dulinor handles things properly, he could even lay the hit's he's<BR>
currently doing at Strephon's feet.<BR>
<BR>
Now THAT could change things considerably, were Dulinor to come back to<BR>
life, WITH several sector Dukes in alliance. Now, instead of the<BR>
Rebellion, with it's 'one for none, none for all' attitude, we have a<BR>
rehash of the Civil War...<BR>
<BR>
Of course, it could be that I read too much Le Carre, Ludlum and Fleming<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:59:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service>Capital/Core<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you <BR>
>>imagine the dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an<BR>
><BR>
>>Archduchess and the heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't <BR>
>>imagine that humanity will improve to the point where everyone <BR>
>>would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
><BR>
> Why not?  3,000 years ago, Egyptians readily accepted Pharoahs<BR>
> who were born of the union of brother and sister.  Who knows<BR>
> what will happen in the next 3,000 years.<BR>
<BR>
And frankly, the whole *reason* the Imperium only rules "the space<BR>
between the worlds" and has so few (and so high level!) laws is because<BR>
cultures vary too much across the worlds of the Imperium. <BR>
<BR>
This is something that is simply *not* handled well in the rules and<BR>
background materials. Most worlds in the Imperium are shown as being<BR>
about as alien as another part of the US...<BR>
<BR>
Here are some samples, drawn from Earth, and merely adjusted for<BR>
available tech.<BR>
<BR>
1. A world where *sex* is illegal. And you are considered weird if you<BR>
   are *capable* of having sex (ie still have a penis/vagina).<BR>
   Reproduction is via artificial in vitro fertilization of sperm and<BR>
   eggs extracted from the parents (not pleasurably!). At higher TLs<BR>
   artifical wombs will be used, which allows complete removal of most<BR>
   female sex organs. (Based on the Skopty sect in Russia)<BR>
2. A world where sex for reproduction is performed out of necessity,<BR>
   with no real feelings and *real* relationships are between members<BR>
   of the same sex. (Based on ancient Greece)<BR>
3. Pick a religion. *Any* religion.... let it run a world according to<BR>
   its tenets, without interference.<BR>
4. Various cultures whose fundamental cultural assumptions are what<BR>
   *we* would consider to be serious mental illnesses. For example a<BR>
   culture based on paranoia. (See various anthro texts)<BR>
<BR>
etc, etc. <BR>
<BR>
Some of these are unpublishable. Others require lots of research, and<BR>
the ability to grasp the idea that *valid* societies can be based on or<BR>
use concepts that are wildly different from our concepts. And most of<BR>
the time, the differences will be in the concepts that we take for<BR>
granted. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:17:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Interstellar Internet?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Laning wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> OBTRAV:   Far Future flame wars and the nature of an interstellar internet.<BR>
>>  Although there is something akin to the Internet on most mid- and hi-TL<BR>
>> worlds, the jumps dividing worlds from each other prevent instantaneous<BR>
>> communication networks from bridging the stars in the same fashion.  Would<BR>
>> there be commercial traffic in archived data meant to be exchanged between<BR>
>> the 'Nets of different worlds?<BR>
><BR>
>     While interstellar "web browsing" might be problematic, I suspect<BR>
> that something akin to the good old FidoNet would probably exist.<BR>
> Packets could be gathered, compressed, and transmitted via the X-Boat<BR>
> and trader network.  You could have empire-spanning discussions,<BR>
> albeit at a slow rate.  On the other hand, if you think you get a lot<BR>
> of email *now*...<BR>
<BR>
Heck, check the history of Usenet! When I started reading news, only a<BR>
small fraction of the systems were on the backbone (which was mostly<BR>
T-1 lines). Instead, most news and mail travelled via uucp. You'd<BR>
receive a bunch of mail and news files from another system, strip out<BR>
the mail that was adressed to your system, and package up any that was<BR>
destined elsewhere according to the bang-path routing to be sent to<BR>
other nodes you connected to. <BR>
<BR>
News was much the same, except that you thru out any messages you'd<BR>
already received, added in new messages from your node, and sent them<BR>
on to nodes that (as far as you knew) hadn't already received them.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2139<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2140</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 20 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2140<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Old X-boat Posts?<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the  Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
Re: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
Re: Droyne Closers<BR>
Re: Vs: Closers<BR>
Re: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
RE: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Staking Wypoc<BR>
Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
Re: C & I<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS   83-1117)<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Same Sex Rulers?<BR>
Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:23:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>>The foil is a very light, pointed weapon designed to cause <BR>
>>damage by penetrating the presumably unarmored opponent.  <BR>
><BR>
> Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
> than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
> the point from penetrating?<BR>
<BR>
Chainmail was long gone as armor by the time the foil appeared as a<BR>
weapon. <BR>
<BR>
> Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
> (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
> bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
> made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
<BR>
Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in<BR>
the ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were<BR>
riveted or welded closed).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:25:35 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Any chance we'll see these published in some form? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:26:43 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Old X-boat Posts?<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone remember when the X-boat topic posts were covered? I know the <BR>
MPGN archives only goes back to 97? I'll have to get the HIWG CD? :0<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:53:57 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
Oh, looky! A contrail waaaay up there!<BR>
<BR>
Rule 6?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 07:49 AM 3/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >The ship's computer has sabotaged things, and the only surviving<BR>
> >crewmember Dave Bowmanii leans out of the air lock and says<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Oh, my GOD! It's full of [obscenities]!<BR>
> <BR>
> He ended up at a Rule 6 party?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:48:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 10:13, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:50 PM 3/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
> >At 09:24 20.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
> >>worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >So what? If a world or two declare war on the Imperium, who cares (except<BR>
> >1/10,000th of the Imperial Navy, of course <g>). <BR>
> <BR>
> As a former sniper, I must point out that one bullet can change history.<BR>
<BR>
As long as it's magical :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:48:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 10:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> What is cheese? Rotted milk left so long it gets fungal infections and<BR>
> clots up. There are many cultures on Earth how simply cannot believe that<BR>
> we would willingly put this stuff in our mouths! <BR>
<BR>
Rotted milk is somewhat different from cheese - it's a different kind <BR>
of decay/decomposition. Also note that only some types of cheese have <BR>
fungi (mold) in them.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:48:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 22:10, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Within an hour most of the survivors were off and many had been picked up<BR>
> by Solomani vessels in the area. Interrogation of the drive room crew<BR>
> survivors indicated that the jump drives were not damaged beyond repair<BR>
> and that enough fuel remained for a very short in-system jump. Although<BR>
> there was a greater than 60% chance of a catastrophic mis-jump from a<BR>
> position that deep in the gravity well, Vice-Admiral Smith, commander of<BR>
> the Solomani strike force decided that the risks were worth it if only a<BR>
> small force of volunteers were involved. Recovery of the Bard Endeavour<BR>
> relatively intact with its high amperage tritium accelerator and<BR>
> sophisticated meson screens could mean the difference between victory and<BR>
> defeat for the Solomani independence movement.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting canon issue here - if this be canon then in-system jumps <BR>
use less fuel than interstellar jumps. This the later be canon then <BR>
this passage (and the whole scenario as well).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:48:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the  Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 9:46, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 12:37 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >    To escape death by bombing if I were a member of the Magnificent 7<BR>
> >    PCs,<BR>
> >I'd hug the SS Liebstandarte Mr Ed ground troops and use every trick in<BR>
> >the book to prevent detection by their ground scouts and sensors (ghillie<BR>
> >suits+IR dispersion+chameleon surfaces+using the terrain to my utmost).<BR>
> <BR>
> They smell you. And they don't mind dying for the Herd. <BR>
> <BR>
> >Their orbital weapons probably won't fire danger close to their ground<BR>
> >troops without a clear target, and their orbital sensors (depending on<BR>
> >their quality) may not recgonize the M7 as enemies, given their proximity<BR>
> >to a large friendly troop concentration.<BR>
> <BR>
> Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both<BR>
> decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree fears.<BR>
> A nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick.<BR>
<BR>
Like in _Footfall_. If the bad guys are bigger 'n you go for the tight <BR>
places.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:05:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> OBTRAV:   Far Future flame wars and the nature of an interstellar internet.<BR>
>  Although there is something akin to the Internet on most mid- and hi-TL<BR>
> worlds, the jumps dividing worlds from each other prevent instantaneous<BR>
> communication networks from bridging the stars in the same fashion.  Would<BR>
> there be commercial traffic in archived data meant to be exchanged between<BR>
> the 'Nets of different worlds?  It sounds infeasible to suppose that a few<BR>
> free traders or subsidized liners or x-boats could be expected to carry the<BR>
> sheer volume of usenet, web page, FTP site, mailing list, etc. updates on a<BR>
> typical, well developed world.  Imagine that every public posting would<BR>
> need to be flagged for what, if any, other worlds the author desires to<BR>
> have it transported to, and that many mailing lists, etc. would exist in<BR>
> different versions.  One version for local world, another one for say the<BR>
> local jump main, another the sector, another for the domain, and other<BR>
> possible permutations of the idea.  Costs to transport data through jump<BR>
> space would tend to limit the number of users participating in off-world<BR>
> discussions and web browsing(?)  Various locales would have various means<BR>
> for determining who bears those costs.  Would interstellar flame wars still<BR>
> exist?  Would they be more rare?  Take different forms from what we know?<BR>
<BR>
Carrying usenet (news & email) isn't a problem. web pages and FTP sites<BR>
would be likely handled by distribution of "best of" collections, and<BR>
people paying to have their own content duplicated on other worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Usenet news is actually well suited to xboat type distribution. Check<BR>
out the wy news was handled 15 years ago when most of it travelled via<BR>
modem links using uucp. <BR>
<BR>
The "Distribution" header line would come back into prominence:<BR>
<BR>
local:	restricted to the ISP<BR>
world:	restricted to the planet<BR>
system:	restricted to the solar system (in case of far companions,<BR>
        they'd be excluded since it'd take a jump to get the stuff<BR>
        there fast enough)<BR>
subsector:<BR>
sector:<BR>
domain:<BR>
galactic: unrestricted<BR>
<BR>
There would also be various "named" distributions for levels between<BR>
local and world, for specific planets in the system, specific systems<BR>
or groups of systems inside the domain, sector, or subsector. And ones<BR>
for the various political entities such as "Imperial" for stuff<BR>
restricted to imperial member worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, there would be newsgroups with inherent distribution limits,<BR>
given by the leftmost element of the group name. <BR>
<BR>
I'd also expect to see some imposition of semi-voluntary distribution<BR>
controls. If you keep posting stuff of purely local interest to<BR>
imperium wide groups, or with Imperial distribution, your servicer<BR>
provider will get complaints from off-world, and will inform you of the<BR>
facts of life. And if you don't get the hint, your account will be<BR>
forcibly restricted (or you'll get charged for the transport of your<BR>
messages). <BR>
<BR>
> Since the comm lag would be at least a week and possibly even years for<BR>
> some participants, things could be awkward.  Users would desire smarter<BR>
> software than we Internet users are accustomed to, in order to sort the<BR>
> posts and threads intelligibly.  Language and cultural differences would<BR>
> create lots of problems(?)  Imagine the threads on the vastly interstellar<BR>
> version of metastellar.sci.archeaology.ancient-civs!  The one that has<BR>
> Hiver, K'kree, Imperium  Imagine how long IP addresses and domain names<BR>
> would be!  LOL<BR>
<BR>
Lags of weeks aren't too bad. Months can be a pain.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:20:53 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Closers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> No, there are plenty of closers in my Traveller universe of all<BR>
>> species (but I suspect that you are talking about completely<BR>
>> different things).<BR>
>> <BR>
> Yea. I'm talking of Closers as in "Openers vs. Closers".<BR>
<BR>
As in the folks in Zelazny's "A Night in the Lonesome October"? <BR>
<BR>
I rather like that whole setup. And it wouldn't be *that* hard to port<BR>
to Traveller. Just have the Opener's and closers trying to identify the<BR>
appropriate dates and astronomical configurations on various worlds. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, the *first* thing is determining whether or not there *is* a<BR>
potential "gate" on a world. <BR>
<BR>
PCs stumbling into the midst of all this are going to get *really*<BR>
puzzled! <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:24:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vs: Closers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Duh. I don't know what either of you are talking about. Uh. What's a<BR>
>> "closer"? <drool><snort><wipe><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Duh.... I think something just flew over my head.<BR>
><BR>
> The ones I'm talking of, are people from "A night in the lonesome october" <BR>
> by Zelaszny, who are trying to prevent the opening to this world by things <BR>
> man was not meant to know. (The name of the book could be wrong, I seem to <BR>
> have misplaced my copy.)<BR>
<BR>
Nope, you've remembered correctly. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:18:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Usenet news is actually well suited to xboat type distribution. Check<BR>
> out the wy news was handled 15 years ago when most of it travelled via<BR>
> modem links using uucp. <BR>
<BR>
Usenet was in fact designed for a distribution method which somewhat resembles<BR>
Xboat (a bit faster -- but only a bit).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:29:34 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
I don't think you could get a K'kree to follow you into a rainforest or<BR>
tight canyon or something - they would back off and bomb the place into<BR>
little burned bits.  Remember that   the K'kree have no environmentalist<BR>
considerations - if they figure they'll never be going into the rain forest,<BR>
then there's not many reasons for a K'kree to not destroy it (and plenty of<BR>
reasons to destroy it - g'naak could be hiding in there!).  If K'kree troops<BR>
come to an area where they can't just waltz along in the open, they'll tend<BR>
to think of other solutions than following their enemy in to an enclosed<BR>
area (send in the robot scouts if they need to see what's in there, carpet<BR>
bombing if they just need to kill what's there).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:47:38 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/20/00 2:10:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Subject: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason to<BR>
>  have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is <BR>
> perfectly<BR>
>  possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 (or <BR>
worse)?<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back when  <BR>
the<BR>
>  imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
<BR>
    Correct from what I understand. There was also a modernization going on <BR>
moving to J6 drives, I guess from a TNS entry.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:54:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Staking Wypoc<BR>
<BR>
- --- William Hostman <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>I wish to grab Wypoc/Lanth/Spinward Marches... I've got some nifty Details...<BR>
><BR>
>I'll continue my detailing and make it available.<BR>
><BR>
>Beware the Dragons!<BR>
<BR>
I'm not too worried about Dragons.  After all, they only have a 1000-meter range, and mediocre armor-piercing capability.<BR>
<BR>
At least Milan has a 2000-meter range.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:11:42 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
<BR>
<<  I would like to know both in-universe explanations and<BR>
 the True Story (which Loren can tell u?) of what took place back in the<BR>
 70's at GDW. >><BR>
<BR>
Well, it all goes back to the Roman two-horse chariot . . .<BR>
<BR>
Ahem . . .Sorry. <BR>
<BR>
8x10 parsecs = 8x10 hexes. Most common hexagonal grid available in the days <BR>
before cheap computer printers and graphics programs was the mass printed <BR>
hexgrid we had run off to draw game maps on. These were sized to comfortably <BR>
hold a 1/2" counter, and were thus slightly larger than 1/2" but smaller than <BR>
3/4". 8 such hexes by 10 such hexes formed the best fit to a digest-sized <BR>
(i.e., LBB-sized) page (allowing a little for a margin). QED.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:11:43 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: C & I<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-20 17:10:00 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< > I agree that most people wouldn't care, but there will also be entire<BR>
 > worlds that would consider such a union as an excuse for a jihad.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
If so, they have doubtless had ample reason to do so long before now. That's <BR>
probably the reason they are on their own little world.<BR>
<BR>
Loren (who is continually amazed how much discussion a couple of sentences <BR>
can genetrate) Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:13:46 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote<BR>
<BR>
[Warning posting is rated PG13 or higher.]<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > > who would be the "regent"?<BR>
<BR>
> > > Never be accepted. As I recall, Dulinor's brother was the Admiral of the<BR>
> > > Fleet for Illeish. He'd be a good choice.<BR>
<BR>
> > The problem with that was that Dulinor's brother was in<BR>
> > on Dulinor's plot to kill Strephon. [At least in the<BR>
> > MT universe and their are _strong_ implications in earlier<BR>
> > TNS stories that he was in on the plot in the GURPS Trav<BR>
> > universe as well]<BR>
<BR>
> Unless Dulinor lives. In that case he (and his agents) could be busy<BR>
> shutting down all the vestiges of the former plot, including his<BR>
> brother.<BR>
> This could be an interesting, twisted plot for a espionage/blackops<BR>
> campaign. Dulinor is still alive, perhaps with evidence that the Emperor<BR>
> had him killed.<BR>
<BR>
This might be a good explanation for why Princess Ciencia<BR>
Ipheginia is traveling with Archduke Isis. Ciencia, as his<BR>
heir, is the only person Strephon could give the authority<BR>
to have Isis killed if and when they find out that Isis was<BR>
in on the plot.<BR>
<BR>
In a sufficiently sick Traveller universe Ciencia could <BR>
kill Isis personally and say that it was just rough kinky <BR>
sex gone awry. This is why Strephon was building up the <BR>
image of Ciencia and Isis as "lifelong friends" i.e. <BR>
longtime companions in comfortable shoes.<BR>
<BR>
When Isis is found dead of auto erotic asphyxiation Ciencia<BR>
is less likely to be suspected and by ensuring that his<BR>
daughter is (literally) willing to kill at his instructions,<BR>
and "for the good of the Imperium" Strephon can test and<BR>
see if Ciencia is ruthless enough to become Empress<BR>
after him. If she is not then Strephon needs to know now<BR>
so that he can have _her_ killed off as well in favor<BR>
of a more suitable heir.<BR>
<BR>
Have you noticed that in the GURPS Traveller universe<BR>
Strephon has been sending all other the members of the<BR>
Imperial Household off on long junkets to outlying<BR>
domains? Why is he sending them away from Core?<BR>
What fiendish plans does he have?<BR>
<BR>
ObMovies: See "The Lion in Winter" for hints of what<BR>
people will do for a small portion of one planet, to<BR>
say nothing of rule over 11,000+ planets.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:03:51 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS   83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
> As a former sniper, I must point out that one bullet can change history.<BR>
<BR>
There are probably lots of people in the Imperium who think they have<BR>
adequate reasons for assassinating the Emperor/Empress now.  Adding another<BR>
is no big deal.<BR>
 <BR>
> >But the latter is due to the fact that Core is, well somewhat closer to<BR>
> >capital than Ilelish. Of course, nominally this would be the way, but<BR>
> >who would hold the _power_ in Ilelish in the next generation? <BR>
> <BR>
> The British crown used to claim places that were months away. No reason<BR>
> why the Emperor Strephon II can't exercise similar authority.<BR>
<BR>
A kid "cut and pasted" from Iffy and Isis would presumably be female:  no Y<BR>
chromosomes available.<BR>
<BR>
> Now that I think about it, a more likely scenario is that either Iphengia<BR>
> or Isis pulls an Edward and Mrs. Simpson, abdicating her position.<BR>
<BR>
I doubt it.  I think the regency idea is more likely.<BR>
<BR>
> >And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
> >Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
> <BR>
> Never be accepted. As I recall, Dulinor's brother was the Admiral of the<BR>
> Fleet for Illeish. He'd be a good choice.<BR>
<BR>
As people have pointed out, Hutara was disgraced during the Dulinor<BR>
Incident.  That doesn't necessarily rule him out though.  There are<BR>
probably other suitable relatives and senior nobles who could fill the<BR>
role.<BR>
<BR>
I don't see any obvious reason why a viceroy/regent can't be appointed. <BR>
It's no more likely that they would abuse their power than an Archduke<BR>
would.  And the sanctions against them doing so are at least as strong. <BR>
It's also likely to be the case that some such appointment would occur when<BR>
Archdukes leave their domains to go to Capital, so it would be a fairly<BR>
standard procedure.  The case of two heirs marrying would almost certainly<BR>
have occurred in the past, too.<BR>
<BR>
A regency of this sort need only last until a suitable heir is produced,<BR>
and has grown up sufficiently to fill the role themselves.  In fact, having<BR>
an heir to the Imperial throne who has previously served as an Archduchess<BR>
would actually be an advantage, in that they would not be some<BR>
inexperienced, spoilt little creep like Lucan.  When they ascend the<BR>
throne, the Archducal title would pass either to one of their own children,<BR>
or to one of their younger siblings.<BR>
<BR>
Regencies are always a bit tricky, but not necessarily disasterous.  And<BR>
there have been lots of colonial empires that have functioned through the<BR>
use of powerful viceroys.<BR>
<BR>
And one of these days I will remember that sentences aren't supposed to<BR>
start with "And".<BR>
<BR>
A last minute thought:  Isis, of course, would have been cloned at birth,<BR>
following the practice documented in MT.  Unfortunately, such a clone<BR>
probably wouldn't be eligible for exercising the regency - unless they had<BR>
an imperial warrant, and had had a "real" identity created for them.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:18:35 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:13:46   Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Have you noticed that in the GURPS Traveller universe<BR>
>Strephon has been sending all other the members of the<BR>
>Imperial Household off on long junkets to outlying<BR>
>domains? Why is he sending them away from Core?<BR>
>What fiendish plans does he have?<BR>
><BR>
The Empress wave is comming.... run for the hills! <BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:23:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Have you noticed that in the GURPS Traveller universe<BR>
> Strephon has been sending all other the members of the<BR>
> Imperial Household off on long junkets to outlying<BR>
> domains? Why is he sending them away from Core?<BR>
> What fiendish plans does he have?<BR>
<BR>
Either (a) he's not sending them (they're just deciding life would be <BR>
healthier elsewhere at the moment) or (b) they're being exiled.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:33:19 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I have some interest in Andory and/or Candory in Five Sisters..<BR>
<BR>
I couldn't even start until mid May though....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:54:34 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Same Sex Rulers?<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------<BR>
Click here for Free Video!!<BR>
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 7:12 AM<BR>
Subject: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
> dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
> heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
> the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I could... There's no reason that other system empires didn't have<BR>
this kind of thing already.  I've seen Traveller with some of our<BR>
predjudices even stronger in some instances (mainly racial perhaps -<BR>
anti-Vargr, Aslan, Sword Worlder, Regenian, etc.?), and see others as<BR>
non-existant (anti-gay, anti-black, anti-Japanese, etc.).  It is a game and<BR>
the perfect world can now exist within the setting without a great need to<BR>
suspend disbelief - though I never gave that aspect (lesbian rulers) any<BR>
thought until now.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, an heir wouldn't be a problem, what with the ability to take<BR>
> genetic material from Iphengia and Isis and combine it to create embryos.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
And that may be what enables it to be allowed and perhaps even successful,<BR>
and also with a choice of the finest noble males (or females if the rulers<BR>
are a male couple?) to be eligible for selection for a different gene mix if<BR>
that was deemed required by the Moot in order for it to be accepted?<BR>
<BR>
Apart from current prejudices or homophobic tendencies, can anyone else give<BR>
a decent reason for or against this?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:09:55 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
I ssupect that the 8x10 grid is simply the result of what happened when the <BR>
guys at GDW tried to place the first blank hex grid into the original little <BR>
black book way back in the 70's.  By the time they could squeeze in a decent <BR>
size hexgrid onto one of those puny pages and allow for a border to make it <BR>
look decent, 8x10 was the most efficient arrangement, and after the first <BR>
books set the standard, why change?<BR>
<BR>
Ken<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:13:29 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 01:35 PM 3/20/00 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
>"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote<BR>
><BR>
> > And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
> > >Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Never be accepted. As I recall, Dulinor's brother was the Admiral of the<BR>
> > Fleet for Illeish. He'd be a good choice.<BR>
><BR>
>The problem with that was that Dulinor's brother was in<BR>
>on Dulinor's plot to kill Strephon. [At least in the<BR>
>MT universe and their are _strong_ implications in earlier<BR>
>TNS stories that he was in on the plot in the GURPS Trav<BR>
>universe as well], as was the commander of the Illelish<BR>
>regiment of the Imperial Guard.<BR>
><BR>
>The evidence clearly suggests (see TNS stories below)<BR>
>that the Imperial government has already killed both<BR>
>Dulinor himself and Imperial Guard of Illelish Commander<BR>
>Enera. Logic suggests that Admiral Illethian is next.<BR>
>(assuming he has not been killed already) The Admiral<BR>
>has already been forced to resign his omission. He has<BR>
>an "aide" who is presumably his keeper. Pay special<BR>
>attention to the third paragraph below where it is said<BR>
>that the Admiral has been "ill" the last few days.<BR>
><BR>
>Imagine how badly you would have torture someone so that<BR>
>the marks were unconcealable on camera given medical<BR>
>advances at Traveller tech levels. Notice that his "aide"<BR>
>is, from his name hault-Musillo, likely to be from a Noble<BR>
>family himself. I guess Strephon would prefer that Nobles<BR>
>die at the hands of other Nobles.<BR>
<BR>
I have to admit, I did not really start collecting Traveller stuff until <BR>
TNE. But, if Iphigenia and Isis are such dear friends, how did <BR>
Daddio  explain to his daughter popping a cap into her best friend? Okay, <BR>
that was crudely put, but you take my meaning. Whatever the relationship <BR>
between the two girls, if it was close, Dulinor is in the position that his <BR>
heir could very well want him dead. Or were the two not close in TOTL?<BR>
<BR>
TOTL=The Other Time Line<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2140<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2141</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2141<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
Re: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
Re: Iphigenia and Isis<BR>
Stellar Data generation<BR>
RE: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
Fw: Stellar Data generation<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Elephants with particle accelerators<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Old X-boat Posts?<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Battle Summary - Re: so what happened after I left?<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:22:19 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Mar 2000 10:55 (GMT -0500), jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: U.K.LeGuin Book?<BR>
><BR>
>In one of her books in the Hainish cycle, there was a human<BR>
>offshoot that was fully hermaphroditic. The story centered around<BR>
>a "normal" human interacting with one or more people from this<BR>
>offshoot.  Does anyone remember what story I'm thinking of?  I<BR>
>need a pointer...<BR>
>- --<BR>
>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
	"The Left Hand Of Darkness"  Nothing to do with dark, stout, or Guiness.  ;-><BR>
	A major classic.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:37:28 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Mar 2000 at 13:13 (GMT -0800), gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re Rules vs Setting<BR>
>You stupid ungrammatical pathetic -- oh, you wanted an argument?<BR>
> This is Abuse.  Argument is two doors down.<BR>
><BR>
>- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
	ROFLMAO and Virtual Keyboard Kill.  Thanks, Glenn.  :-><BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:48:46 -0500<BR>
From: "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 1:11 PM<BR>
Subject: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:17 -0500 19/3/00, "Katharine Whitchurch"<BR>
> <katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote:<BR>
> >Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the<BR>
> >flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with<BR>
> >     (a) elephant-mounted Particle Accelerators<BR>
> >     (b) the military version of the Jet Bike (I'm thinking of the racing<BR>
> >version with a 50kg long-rod penetrator<BR>
> >     (c) a new, upgraded Sound System<BR>
> >     (d) a Ground Car.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Note that none of these exist. Yet.<BR>
><BR>
> Glug, Glug, Glug. <Smell of Petrol/Gas><BR>
> Click, click, hiss. <Sound of a Zippo><BR>
> Whumph! <charring roasting meat smell><BR>
><BR>
> <FLAME ON><BR>
><BR>
> Consider this a continuation of the flame war. I want more toys from<BR>
> the High Energy Weapons Division...<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
Now this is one Flame War I can fully support! Dom, let me know what we<BR>
arefighting over and we'll start...<BR>
<BR>
Mike Peters<BR>
<BR>
"Honey have you seen my spare cape? Yeah, Hengie's back AND he's brought<BR>
that youngester Ditzie with him... I know, we all thought he'd retired as<BR>
well...No I am not about to save the universe from them, they're just too<BR>
scarey"   attributed to Superman, speaking to Lois just before departing to<BR>
the Fortress of Solitude.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:01:44 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Mar 2000 at 13:16 (GMT -0800), gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
>>>They stated that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for <BR>
>>>very long distances for some strange reason.<BR>
>><BR>
>>If the bullets hit the wall at a shallow angle they may <BR>
>>ricochet at an even shallower angle.<BR>
><BR>
>Two friends who are physicists would always remind when playing<BR>
>pool that the angle of refraction is equal to the angle of<BR>
>incidence.  This seemed to help their bank shots immensely.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	My reaction on first reading the bit about Delta "operators" preferring<BR>
the middle of the street to the edges was "hmm..." also.<BR>
<BR>
	Theory #1  The first supporting argument I can contrive for this theory is<BR>
that most troops try to keep to cover, which is usually found near the<BR>
edges of the streets.  Since troops are the usual target for bullets, the<BR>
bullets can be found merrily zinging along near the street edges 'cuz<BR>
that's where the targets are.  The Delta guys are thus outsmarting nobody<BR>
except themselves.<BR>
<BR>
	Theory #2   A possibly better supporting argument would be the ricochet<BR>
producing a shallower angle.  My problems with this argument are different<BR>
from yours.  The bullet would encounter friction/drag on whichever side<BR>
strikes the wall, thus "pulling" it towards that side.  However, virtually<BR>
every projectile weapon in a combat zone is rifled, so the bullets would be<BR>
spinning and the friction from a ricochet would tend to produce<BR>
unpredictable and zany results.  So my geometry model creates a less<BR>
perfect ricochet while yours calls for a more perfect ricochet.<BR>
<BR>
	Theory #3   Best supporting argument I've created so far is that<BR>
parked/abandoned vehicles and whatnot clutter up the street, thus making it<BR>
very difficult for people on one side of the street to fire at things on<BR>
the other side.  Vehicles mostly being found along the curbs, shooters are<BR>
restricted to narrow lanes in between these parked vehicles and the<BR>
buildings on their own side of the street.  This argument isn't incredibly<BR>
strong, but does have at least some merit.<BR>
<BR>
	Building to building fighting in Beirut and other places with intense<BR>
infantry combat in a modern urban setting suggested that successful troops<BR>
seize the high ground and go up to the tops of skyscrapers.  Hotels and<BR>
such places.  They then fire *down* at pretty much any part of the street<BR>
that inspires them, with a merry lack of discrimination.  The notion has<BR>
been advanced that vertical envelopment operations by helicopter be planned<BR>
to immediately seize the tops of buildings with the most commanding views,<BR>
and only secondary priority be placed on seizing ground level.<BR>
<BR>
	OBTRAV:  How much do civilian vehicles become a part of street fighting in<BR>
urban combat in highly developed worlds?  Do owners manage to safely get<BR>
them off the streets before the fighting impinges?  Are vehicles lower and<BR>
thus negligible cover or higher and thus interfere with lines of sight even<BR>
more?  Does the plentiful availability of grav craft for the troops make<BR>
every part of a street just too deadly for anyone on the ground?  Should<BR>
referees impose defensive DMs for characters who keep to the center of the<BR>
street?  Okay, these ObTrav questions are pretty weak, but I'm trying.  <G><BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:40:10 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Iphigenia and Isis<BR>
<BR>
>A last minute thought:  Isis, of course, would have been cloned at birth,<BR>
>following the practice documented in MT.  Unfortunately, such a clone<BR>
>probably wouldn't be eligible for exercising the regency - unless they had<BR>
>an imperial warrant, and had had a "real" identity created for them.<BR>
><BR>
>Alan Bradley<BR>
>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
OK, I was out of the loop at the end of the Rebellion (the GT mention that<BR>
the "real" Strephon was just that floored me.) What was the story with<BR>
cloning? Was it just Isis in the MT timeline, or members of the Imperial<BR>
family as well? Heck, while I'm at it, was it ever proven in the MT timeline<BR>
that Strephon was real?<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:04:37 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Stellar Data generation<BR>
<BR>
Some time ago there was a person talking about making a new star data<BR>
generator.  He was asking for feature suggestions and I said it should have a<BR>
CAD like feature.  I have since lost my email list and would like to know who<BR>
this person as and how the program is coming.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Shimmer<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:58:11 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
<BR>
> "Honey have you seen my spare cape? Yeah, Hengie's back AND he's brought<BR>
> that youngester Ditzie with him... I know, we all thought he'd retired as<BR>
> well...No I am not about to save the universe from them, they're just too<BR>
> scarey"   attributed to Superman, speaking to Lois just before<BR>
> departing to<BR>
> the Fortress of Solitude.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Okay, THAT caught me by surprise and I almost splorked beer on my monitor.<BR>
Not figuratively either, I mean I literally almost spewed perfectly good MGD<BR>
[I'm a heathen, what can I say] all over my monitor!  Normally I don't<BR>
partake of any beverage anymore if the subject line says famille, famile,<BR>
spofulam, ditzie, sayat, gridlore, x-tek, or penguin, but I'd let my guard<BR>
down since my brains mush for working on AR3 all weekend.<BR>
<BR>
Outstanding job Mike!  :D<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:05:23 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
<BR>
> On 19 Mar 2000 at 13:16 (GMT -0800), gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
> >>>They stated that bullets tend to travel parallel to walls for<BR>
> >>>very long distances for some strange reason.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
> 	Building to building fighting in Beirut and other places<BR>
> --Laning<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Just goes to show you that the best thing for urban warfare is an A-10 >:D<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
Over loudspeakers:  "If you do not cease, desist, and throw down your arms,<BR>
we are authorized to launch FS A-110 grav gunships, and God help you all."<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:21:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Fw: Stellar Data generation<BR>
<BR>
I seem to remember someone looking for a way to contact Sword of the Knight<BR>
publications.  Here is Kevin Knight's email from eBay.  The site seems to be<BR>
gone, but he is still selling off issues of TC at auction.<BR>
<BR>
kknight@dynasty.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:40:00 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2129<BR>
<BR>
	Glenn wrote:<BR>
>"Hey! Get away from the coffeepot.  Coffee is for closers.  Are<BR>
>you a closer?  Remember your ABC's: Always Be Closing.  A<BR>
>Always.  B Be.  C Closing.  Always Be Closing.  Are you a<BR>
>closer?"  (Points for the first to recognize the movie from<BR>
>which this is a slightly mangled quotation.)<BR>
>- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
	Sounds suspiciously like Kevin Spacey's character in Glengarry Glenn Ross.<BR>
 Or was it my branch manager when i was a broker?  Having been a<BR>
stockbroker on commission-only pay at the time of that film, it struck<BR>
awfully close to home for me.  Where people felt the most outrageous parts<BR>
occurred is where I thought it was just realistic.<BR>
<BR>
	That was a David Mamet story in that film.  He has long shown a<BR>
fascination with what odd extremes people will put themselves and each<BR>
other through for money.  This makes most of his films good sources for<BR>
referees to get characters, full plots, miniplots, and various little<BR>
vignettes.  He wrote The Postman Always Rings Twice remake, House Of Games,<BR>
The Untouchables remake, Glengarry, Hoffa, The Spanish Prisoner, The Edge,<BR>
Wag the Dog, and (almost inexplicable to me) Ronin.  Those are just the<BR>
titles I've seen and can recommend as inspirational sources.  Well, Ronin<BR>
is devoid of any new inspirations for anyone on this list.  Fairly<BR>
straightforward terrorist/bandit/mercenary gig, with a smidge of betrayal<BR>
and not particularly intelligent application of explosives and bullets.<BR>
House Of Games serves as a pretty good primer on con games in general.  A<BR>
couple of those films I would *not* recommend as a film buff (Hoffa, Wag<BR>
the Dog, and Ronin).<BR>
<BR>
	Checked the IMDB's listing for David Mamet writer credits<BR>
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Mamet,+David (URL provided is for the mirror in the<BR>
States, denizens of other lands should go to www.imdb.com first, then<BR>
select the closest mirror for them) and was surprised to note that someone<BR>
else wrote A Simple Plan.  If you haven't seen it, rent it.  Not a cheerful<BR>
movie, but is a damned good one.  And chock full of referee inspirations.<BR>
As with all the Mamet films, you will have to translate the people and<BR>
plots into a science fiction setting, but that shouldn't be hard at all.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:38:36 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
>Interesting canon issue here - if this be canon then in-system jumps <BR>
>use less fuel than interstellar jumps. This the later be canon then <BR>
>this passage (and the whole scenario as well).<BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
Take a look at Sol subsector. Kaguk/Sol, the system where this<BR>
battle probably took place, is Jump-2 from Mukhaldim, Jump-3 from<BR>
Cymbeline, and Jump-3 from Ember. It's Jump-1 from nowhere.<BR>
Jump-0 takes the same fuel as Jump-1, so it's reasonable that<BR>
Bard Endeavor had enough fuel for an in-system jump, without <BR>
having enough fuel to get to another star system.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:49:01 EST<BR>
From: LB2NOLA@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:57:27 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Elephants with particle accelerators<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 2000 at 12:01 (GMT +1000), scout.harry@eudoramail.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
><BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:50:46   Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
>>Now, back to the elephant-mounted particle accelerator.<BR>
><BR>
>Mounted on the trunk, of course, so that it will be completely directional.<BR>
<BR>
	I think spinal mount is the way to go.<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:28:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 20 Mar 00, at 10:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
>> What is cheese? Rotted milk left so long it gets fungal infections and<BR>
>> clots up. There are many cultures on Earth how simply cannot believe that<BR>
>> we would willingly put this stuff in our mouths! <BR>
><BR>
> Rotted milk is somewhat different from cheese - it's a different kind <BR>
> of decay/decomposition. Also note that only some types of cheese have <BR>
> fungi (mold) in them.<BR>
<BR>
He's describing how cheese is *percieved* by members of some cultures<BR>
on Earth. <BR>
<BR>
How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:35 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Hi! Just popping in for a brief look.<BR>
<BR>
Richard said:<BR>
>Whatever the relationship<BR>
>between the two girls, if it was close, Dulinor is in the position that his<BR>
>heir could very well want him dead. Or were the two not close in TOTL?<BR>
<BR>
I'm interested in this thread, because I've always wanted to play the Digest #9<BR>
"beach picnic surprise party" scenario. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
A lot of the "answers" to this thread - ie. the direction things go - depends on<BR>
how you want to play it in your universe. Obviously, just reading the news<BR>
doesn't give you all the info you need - think about real life news. There's a<BR>
*heap* of background that the average pleb knows nothing about.<BR>
<BR>
*Here* is where you can be creative as a DM, and choose how to run things. There<BR>
are so many options open: Dulinor could be dead in the explosion, or have been<BR>
captured and then executed, or alive and held captive, or alive and free and<BR>
plotting - your choice, I think? The plot could have been discovered by an<BR>
Imperial intelligence organisation, or by the PC's, or Strephon could have been<BR>
warned by Avery (and the PC's!! ;-), etc etc.<BR>
<BR>
There are heaps of "what if's" that you could pose and have the PC's try to<BR>
answer.<BR>
<BR>
For example, take Isis' view of her father. Eleven years (from the 1105 beach<BR>
party to 1116 incident) is a long time, and things can change. What happens if<BR>
you decide that _Isis_ found out about her father's plot, and somehow warned<BR>
Strephon? He has no problem in making her Archduchess now, wouldn't you agree?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and BTW, the two women could just be friends, y'know?! ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:08:55 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>	How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
><BR>
>Peez<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
One: Free Hydrogen is readily available to combine with other substances to<BR>
thus become non-free, and especially acidic compounds...<BR>
<BR>
two: Free hydrogen WILL sublimate through most materials. Quite readily.<BR>
And, if it slowly does so, fire will result in the oxygen atmosphere with<BR>
minimal encouragement; at least, unless you exceed the burnability level.<BR>
<BR>
3 Free hydrogen can make certain compounds brittle through various means.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:24:56 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
>>But I see another possible problem here: An Archduchess and the Empress-<BR>
>>married? We would need another Archduchess/Archduke for Ilelish then... (or<BR>
>>do you think they'd aggree with seeing each other once a decade?:-) )<BR>
><BR>
>Or Isis appoints a regent, and their child is heir to both the Iridium<BR>
>Throne *and* the Domain of Illeish.  Doesn't the Emperor carry the title of<BR>
>Archduke of Core?<BR>
<BR>
Arduke of Sylea. Core is the secctor, Sylea the Domain. See MT rules.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:22:41 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
><BR>
>Stuart, I would say 'fencing' involves the use of prise-de-fer (feel<BR>
>of the steel) to counter and react to an opponent's movements.<BR>
>Broadsword tactics / fencing is about broad swings and sudden rushes<BR>
>that rely on observing pre-motion 'tells' to counter the attack - so<BR>
>it is mainly attack and defense, while fencing uses feint / attack /<BR>
>counter / defense / counterattack. In other words, is more complex<BR>
>than broadsword. That would be the key difference, and is why a sabre<BR>
>would be a fencing weapon, but a cutlass would be a broadsword weapon<BR>
>(IMHO).<BR>
<BR>
One thing to keep in mind: A good broadsword wielder CAN fake, feint, and<BR>
do some other unexpected things.<BR>
<BR>
Another key point: the nicks and dents in the blade edge are actually QUITE<BR>
the hazard to unarmored flesh... more likely to cut oneself on a nicked but<BR>
oterwise dull blade than upon a nice sharp one...<BR>
<BR>
I do cut and thrust with a local reenactment group... doing<BR>
celtic/brittish/scots style cut-and-thrust. We train with padded weapons,<BR>
but also do some work with live steel.  The worse the blade edge in terms<BR>
of nicks, the nastier the wound when you hit with it on anything other than<BR>
a proper "Hack". Feints are hard, but can be done. And Molinets are<BR>
impressive when done right (You parry, use the pary to "wind" the spring of<BR>
your upperbody, and uncoil to hit the SOB as he recovers his swing. BTW,<BR>
you try to deflect your opponent's blade into the ground...)<BR>
<BR>
Prime targets are anywhere you can get a nasty bleeder: Head, neck, inside<BR>
of arms, inside of thighs, back of the calves, wrists. Our group doesn't do<BR>
wrists intentionally, except our fearless leader, who can hit RIGHT on the<BR>
fleshy part behind the joint, and make you drop your weapon even with a<BR>
gauntlet on.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:53:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Old X-boat Posts?<BR>
<BR>
From: <Qstor@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 6:26 PM<BR>
Subject: Old X-boat Posts?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone remember when the X-boat topic posts were covered?<BR>
> I know the MPGN archives only goes back to 97? I'll have to get the<BR>
> HIWG CD? :0<BR>
<BR>
The MPGN archives go back further (I think to August 94 or so). You want<BR>
ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/Traveller/ and then you want to go into the<BR>
old.XTML.digests directory and the old.TML.digests directory.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know when the topic was covered, so this might not be useful, but<BR>
there is older stuff out there.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:00:36 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
On 03/20/00 at 09:44 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>    Though if it's full of penguins, perhaps we should rename it "waddle<BR>
>>space".<BR>
<BR>
>Penguins can jump. Oddly enough, it's one of the few land-based<BR>
>locomotions they're any good at.<BR>
<BR>
That's true, you should *see* them jump!<BR>
<BR>
Actually, jump space is full of choclate fudge with walnuts. After one week you're done, so out you pop!<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:02:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hey! Heresy IS Canonical!<BR>
<BR>
From: <Kagehira@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >  Please, don't get all technical! :)<BR>
><BR>
> What do you expect from a gearhead........ :)<BR>
<BR>
Everyone has their flaws, I suppose <g,d,r><BR>
<BR>
> >  Besides, Annic Nova, Leviathan, Shadows, etc. are on Marc's list<BR>
> > of "The Traveller Canon" (from the first volume of the Classic<BR>
> > Traveller Reprints).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  So, Nyah. :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  Incidentally, the Journal is also listed.<BR>
><BR>
> Annic Nova isn't canon, also according to Marc (at least the ship<BR>
> itself)....<BR>
<BR>
Well, the adventure is part of the Traveller Canon list now, for whatever<BR>
it's worth. Personally, I'm fond of the Annic Nova, so it doesn't bother me.<BR>
Don't get me started on the very notion of canon (I could go on for days).<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:03:46 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>>Actually, a foil would have a tendency to break if used as a weapon,<BR>
>>chainmail or no.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm probably getting my terms mixed up here. Is a "foil" a sport fencing<BR>
>weapon, not intended for real combat, while the real weapon it is<BR>
>based on (a rapier?) is different?<BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
><BR>
Rapier: Extremely narrow longsword, typically partial-basket-hilt, although<BR>
some were crossbar, with typical lengths to between 0.7 and about 1.1m past<BR>
hilt. Blade is often double edged, has a thrusting point, and slightly<BR>
narrows to the tip change from about 4-5cm at the hilt to 2-4 cm at the<BR>
base of the tip. The thrusting tip would have a rake of about 30-45 degrees<BR>
from the line of the blade.<BR>
<BR>
Foil: A very narrow (~1cm), typically square sectioned blade, about 0.6 to<BR>
1.2m in length (These are the extremes, not the norms), with either a very<BR>
sharp thrusting point or a safety fold or ball. Hilt is typically a<BR>
bell-hilt, sometimes with crossbar and/or basket. A few have been made with<BR>
a 4-pointed-star shaped cross section, although the historicity of these<BR>
patterns is questionable, at least prior to rolling-stock milling<BR>
techniques; the star-section allows more of an edge. Actual duelling foils<BR>
were typically used to first blood, and were part of the german late 1800's<BR>
schlager phenom; typiclly wounds would be limb-pokes, and facial or limb<BR>
scratches. The cross-sectioned ones would be less flexible, buit might do a<BR>
decent draw-cut, especially if lightly serrated.<BR>
<BR>
Sabre, Traditional: A 1.5-edged blade, curved to fit the curve of a horse<BR>
while worn slung by mounted horsemen. The half-edge is on the inside of the<BR>
curve. Used for hacking, slashing, and thrusting. Typically quarter-basket<BR>
or mamaluke hilted. Length typically 0.75-1m<BR>
<BR>
Sabre, Dress: Current RW sabres are for dress wear, and are typically too<BR>
brittle for actual thrust; US CW to WWI patterns are typically much more<BR>
flexible than modern dress sabres. The blades tend to have ornate etchings,<BR>
are unsharpened, and typically run 0.8-1m, by service standards. BTW, by<BR>
accident, a chap of my acquaintance nearly severed his ear during an<BR>
exhibition drill with sword practice. He was transitioning from Carry-sword<BR>
to Reverse carry sword (The first has the blade edge-out, and resting upon<BR>
the shoulder; the latter has the blade edge-forward, and tucked through the<BR>
armpit; in both, the tip is up, the hilt in the hand... carry to far<BR>
forward, and WHACK!)<BR>
<BR>
Sabre, Fencing: A modified foil, slightly heavier due to slightly longer<BR>
length. Different hilt and grip, as well as stance. Target areas also<BR>
differ for competitive fencing.<BR>
<BR>
Epee, Fencing: Yet another modified foil. like the sabre, it differs in<BR>
hilt, grip, stance, and competition target zones.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:22:56 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Summary - Re: so what happened after I left?<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> Kristian,<BR>
> <BR>
> I think you forgot that Unicorn-Z had destroyed the intruder's<BR>
> fire control system (its one critical hit, as I recall), which<BR>
> neutralized it as a threat.  It appears therefore that my<BR>
<BR>
Quite right!  I thought I had forgotten something but I was going off of<BR>
what was recorded on the sheets left on the game table.  I also think<BR>
that we forgot (or gave up on) rolling the other four critical hits that<BR>
the Unicorn-Z's missiles generated.<BR>
<BR>
> strategy was quite successful.  Some new crew members and<BR>
> replacement of peripheral parts, and Unicorn-Z is back on the<BR>
> line!  In fact, it could have continued to fight for some time<BR>
> if necessary.<BR>
<BR>
And I think that missiles (especially the SIM's) could be used at a<BR>
longer range to avoid even more damage while still inflicting heavy<BR>
damage on the opponent.<BR>
<BR>
> bringing frozen pizza for a midday snack (not much of an issue<BR>
<BR>
That would be great.  We also have a barbeque every evening after the<BR>
game (which I know you and Luther had to miss this time).<BR>
<BR>
Before I forget, we need to set the meet date for next month.  Luther<BR>
suggested avoiding April 15...so April 1, 8 or May 6 for our next meet.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:15:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> I seem to recall seeing a re-print of that in (I think) "White Dwarf"<BR>
> and writing in to say that you couldn't fence with a cutlass. Since<BR>
> then, I've become a fencing coach and I still say that you can't - at<BR>
> least not in the same way as with a sabre. Its really in the<BR>
> broadsword class - but that's just a different sort of fencing. IMTU,<BR>
> rules to cover the whole range could be damn handy - anyone have any?<BR>
<BR>
Try using En Garde! <BR>
<BR>
Frankie <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2141<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2142<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Greek relationships<BR>
RE: Need this answered FAST<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Vs: Closers<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS   83-1117)<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Grant (Was: The TML 2000 Land Grab)<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Elephant Mounted PAW<BR>
Re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
RE: Stellar Data generation<BR>
RE: Stellar Data generation<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:15:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> I seem to recall seeing a re-print of that in (I think) "White Dwarf"<BR>
> and writing in to say that you couldn't fence with a cutlass. Since<BR>
> then, I've become a fencing coach and I still say that you can't - at<BR>
> least not in the same way as with a sabre. Its really in the<BR>
> broadsword class - but that's just a different sort of fencing. IMTU,<BR>
> rules to cover the whole range could be damn handy - anyone have any?<BR>
<BR>
Try using En Garde! <BR>
<BR>
Frankie <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:24:27 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 03/20/00 at 02:23 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
>> (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
>> bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
>> made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
<BR>
>Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in the<BR>
>ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were riveted<BR>
>or welded closed).<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't there something called a bodkin point, long, thin, very sharp, made for punching through chainmail?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:31:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> 2. A world where sex for reproduction is performed out of necessity,<BR>
> with no real feelings and *real* relationships are between members<BR>
> of the same sex. (Based on ancient Greece)<BR>
<BR>
A gross oversimplification, and in my humble opinion, a mischaracterization<BR>
as well. People tend to read things into texts which don't appear, and once<BR>
a certain interpretation appears, other scholars tend to fall in line. I've<BR>
seen a lot of interpretations of passages from Ancient Greek texts that seem<BR>
to see things that aren't there.<BR>
<BR>
There are a number of reasons for these interpretations, and I feel some are<BR>
valid. The ancient Greeks aren't the only culture that has undergone some<BR>
odd interpretations. Strange baggage has been added to both the Epic of<BR>
Gilgamesh and the Yahwist's Adam and Eve narrative.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:31:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
Ship: Bard Endeavour<BR>
Status: The Bard Endeavor was caught during a refueling operation over a GG<BR>
in the Kagukhasaggan System by the Solomani dreadnaught Retaliation and it's<BR>
group. Several of the smaller Imperial escorts were destroyed covering the<BR>
disengagement of the task force from the Gas Giants gravity well and those<BR>
ships refueled headed at max G out system to jump. To cover the withdrawal,<BR>
the Bard Endeavor (it's tanks dry) remained behind to delay the enemy. The<BR>
heroic stand of the Bard Endeavor enabled most of the task force to escape,<BR>
but left the fleet intruder a glowing wreck in a decaying orbit over<BR>
Kagukhasaggan 2 (A small inner planet). Those crew still living aboard the<BR>
doomed vessel began evacuating the vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Crew picked up by the Solmani told that the jump drive was still<BR>
operational.<BR>
<BR>
A volunteer strike team was assembled - to take the jump deck, disable the<BR>
three remaining fighters and take the survivors on the bridge.<BR>
<BR>
The engineering crew on the jump deck put op a stiffer resistance then<BR>
expected, and bogged the assault down.<BR>
<BR>
After three hours, with 43 defenders aboard, the Bard Endeavor suffered<BR>
catastrophic reentry into the atmosphere of Kagukhasaggan.<BR>
<BR>
(Excerpts from Azhanti High Lightning Rules Book, Incident #1.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
Berry<BR>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:03 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser that suffered a boarding action during<BR>
the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
<BR>
I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical resolutions<BR>
given.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:36:44 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
On 03/20/00 at 04:06 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Unless Dulinor lives. In that case he (and his agents) could be busy<BR>
>shutting down all the vestiges of the former plot, including his brother.<BR>
<BR>
Re The GT timeline: It's my take that Dulinor *is* still alive and is doing precisely what you suggest. It could go the other way, but I don't think so.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:42:33 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
On 03/20/00 at 05:23 PM,  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Peter Newman writes:<BR>
<BR>
>> Have you noticed that in the GURPS Traveller universe<BR>
>> Strephon has been sending all other the members of the<BR>
>> Imperial Household off on long junkets to outlying<BR>
>> domains? Why is he sending them away from Core?<BR>
>> What fiendish plans does he have?<BR>
<BR>
>Either (a) he's not sending them (they're just deciding life would be <BR>
>healthier elsewhere at the moment) or (b) they're being exiled.<BR>
<BR>
Or spread out for protection. If there is still a plotter on the loose, it's better not to have "all your eggs in one" palace...so to speak.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:46:29 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Vs: Closers<BR>
<BR>
>The ones I'm talking of, are people from "A night in the lonesome october" <BR>
by >Zelaszny, who are trying to prevent the opening to this world by things <BR>
man was >not meant to know. (The name of the book could be wrong, I seem to <BR>
have >misplaced my copy.)<BR>
<BR>
 I try to read this one every October, actually. Definitely worth it.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:46:51 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, rain forest is actually quite *open* terrain. The shade kills<BR>
>almost all the undergrowth. So other than the tree trunks, it's quite<BR>
>open. What most people think of as "jungle" is only found at the<BR>
>*edges* or in places where the rain forest is recovering from damage.<BR>
<BR>
Teperate and Sub-arctic rain-forest, however, are thick with underbrush.<BR>
The trees tend to be fairly close, as well (2-4m apart), and the general<BR>
level of underbrush is 20-30cm of spongy mosses, with lots of low-to ground<BR>
leavy bushes.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Pine forest is pretty open as well, because the pine needles kill many<BR>
>sorts of undergrowth.<BR>
<BR>
Depends. Much of the sub-arctic coniferous forest is extremely dense;<BR>
sometimes trees every 1.5-2m, and all of them with base diameters of<BR>
1-1.5m. Common animal trails will have 0.25-0.75m of "branchless" area. The<BR>
spots UNDER the tree canopies, however, tend to be about 0.25-0.5m of<BR>
clearance, and filled with the needles. However, some types of moss,<BR>
lichen, and weed grow under their canopies.<BR>
<BR>
Fir and Pine are so close in appearance, but in general, the alaskan fir<BR>
varieties tend to have branches starting about 0.25 to 1m from ground, and<BR>
sloping down and out.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, having been in Oregon's mountains, yes, Leonard's quite right about<BR>
much of the coniferous pine in coastal and western side of the mountains<BR>
being quite open. Especially old-growth. trees 2-5 m apart, little<BR>
low-ground cover, conifers begin branching much higher with height, 1-10m<BR>
before branching is apparent...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:15:12 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:46:07 -0500, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
> >>>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
> >>>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
> >>>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
> >> 	IMTU, nothing at all.  As someone else posted, the jump drive is<BR>
> >> 	designed to push a ship out of n-space and has no effect in jump<BR>
> >> 	space.<BR>
> >Ah, but the second jump drive wouldn't *be* in jump space... it would be<BR>
> >inside the bubble of n-space.<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> 	Sure it would, IMTU.  As I mentioned earlier, IMTU the jump drive<BR>
> 	pushes the starship out of n-space and then shuts down.  The ship<BR>
> 	then drifts through j-space for about a week, without any functioning<BR>
> 	jump drive.  There is no bubble.  YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
No hydrogen bubble, or no dimensional jump barrier?<BR>
<BR>
I didn't mean bubble, as in the "hydrogen gas pocket surrounding the ship"<BR>
TML theory.  I meant "bubble", as in everything within the *field* that<BR>
forms the boundary between J-space and the inside of the ship.<BR>
<BR>
*Something* has to separate the physics of J-space outside the hull with<BR>
the physics of N-space (or whatever you want to call it) within that<BR>
region.  My point was that since the jumpdrive itself (or the lanthanum<BR>
grid, for that matter) isn't actually *in* J-space, the ship is still<BR>
technically within a pocket of N-space :)<BR>
<BR>
Now if you were to activate a second, *smaller* lanthanum grid within the<BR>
first, you'd have a Russian Doll version of a starship-- with each<BR>
diminishing pocket of N-space shifting into another dimension of J-space.<BR>
I don't even wanna think about what happens to the left behind "layers",<BR>
never mind the smaller N-space pocket :)<BR>
<BR>
Do your lanthanum grids remain energized while in J-space, or are they<BR>
energized only when entering J-space?  If the latter is true, I suppose you<BR>
could try and energize it a second time for a "second stage" jump while in<BR>
J-space.  The problem I see would be in ensuring (with 100.000% accuracy)<BR>
that the second attempt created a jump field *identical* to the first.  If<BR>
the field is even a nanometre larger in any physical (ie: XYZ) dimension,<BR>
you'd be attempting to transport a wee bit of J-space during the second<BR>
jump.  Now *that* could get ugly.  If the field was a wee bit smaller,<BR>
you'd be skinning the onion just like the Russian Doll example above.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I don't want to think about it, and I hope my players (?) never<BR>
ask :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Shh! Be vewy quiet, I'm hunting wuntime ewors!<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:00:35 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
> > Douglas again:<BR>
> >>Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both <BR>
> >>decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree <BR>
> >>fears. A nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick. <BR>
...<BR>
> Actually, the K'kree will be at a *major* disadvantage in a desert. Not<BR>
...<BR>
> Hardpan desert would be bad news for the humans. Hard firm ground is<BR>
...<BR>
> But dune seas will be a nightmare for the K'kree. They'll have an even<BR>
...<BR>
> Forest terrain favors humans. So do snowfields. K'kree snowshoes are a<BR>
...<BR>
> BTW, rain forest is actually quite *open* terrain. The shade kills<BR>
...<BR>
> Pine forest is pretty open as well, because the pine needles kill many<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
Some type of swamps might be good for the humans too.  Nice and smelly, as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
The whole idea is kind of dicey though.  The _players_ would need to be<BR>
exceptional to pull this off.  K'kree military commanders (usually) aren't<BR>
stupid, aren't incompetent, and aren't inexperienced.  Their technology<BR>
isn't that bad either.  <BR>
<BR>
Things to watch out, apart from insane K'kree, and subject race<BR>
auxiliaries, are Remotely Piloted Vehicles - military versions of the<BR>
dumbots the K'kree use so freely.  Some of these might even have chemical<BR>
sensors, and be able to track the humans, possibly even despite the use of<BR>
scent blockers....  <BR>
<BR>
Of course, just because the K'kree don't like to be enclosed in vehicles<BR>
doesn't mean that they don't have them, either.  Open topped grav vehicles<BR>
aren't necessarily at that much of a disadvantage if the side using them<BR>
control orbit, and the enemy's fire is coming from below.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the K'kree will be hunting the humans in shifts.  Sooner or later,<BR>
the humans will need to stop to rest.  They had better not have the K'kree<BR>
on their tail when they have to do this.<BR>
<BR>
As I said:  the humans will either need a significant technological<BR>
advantage, or be run by much better players than any I have ever played<BR>
with.<BR>
<BR>
This _is_ one way they could win though:  they take the character<BR>
responsible for getting them into this mess, grind his corpse very fine,<BR>
and mix it with the K'kree's supply of Cow Chow.  Then (from a safe<BR>
distance - preferably while disappearing into Jump space), prove to the<BR>
K'kree that they have become meateaters...  <BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:34:44 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
> From: Steven Bonneville <BR>
> Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Note: I cannot locate Kagukhasaggan in the Solomani Rim, or by using<BR>
> > Galactic...<BR>
> <BR>
> I suspect this is probably Kaguk/Sol, a reasonable place for a flint<BR>
> boat to be at the end of the Rim War.  <BR>
<BR>
Yes.  "Kaguk" is just a shortened form for Kagukhasaggan, which seems to be<BR>
of an awkward length for maps.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:05:23 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS   83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
> From: Alan Bradley <BR>
> > From: "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
> > >But the latter is due to the fact that Core is, well somewhat closer<BR>
to<BR>
> > >capital than Ilelish. Of course, nominally this would be the way, but<BR>
> > >who would hold the _power_ in Ilelish in the next generation? <BR>
> > <BR>
> > The British crown used to claim places that were months away. No reason<BR>
> > why the Emperor Strephon II can't exercise similar authority.<BR>
....<BR>
> > Now that I think about it, a more likely scenario is that either<BR>
Iphengia<BR>
> > or Isis pulls an Edward and Mrs. Simpson, abdicating her position.<BR>
> <BR>
> I doubt it.  I think the regency idea is more likely.<BR>
> <BR>
> > >And, most importantly, who would be the "regent"? Margaret? A clone of<BR>
> > >Dulinor (shudder!)?<BR>
<BR>
We're all being silly here.  If Strephon remains on the throne for another<BR>
couple of decades, Iffy&Isis' kid(s) will be old enough to take on ruling<BR>
responsibilities.  That is, if Isis wants to go to Capital when Iffy<BR>
becomes Empress, one of their daughters could become Regent.<BR>
<BR>
What might happen is that they both have daughters:  Iffy's daughter is<BR>
Crown Princess, and Isis' is heir to the Domain of Ilelish.  <BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:23:29 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:07:29 +1000, Scout Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:33:26   Stormhound wrote:<BR>
> >Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> Or, "Oh my god, it's full of penguins!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >    That would certainly be ample explanation for the deadly nature of jump<BR>
> >space.  Especially if they're all carrying FGPPs.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >    Though if it's full of penguins, perhaps we should rename it "waddle<BR>
> >space".<BR>
> <BR>
> No way, it can't be full of penguins! Penguins can't jump!<BR>
<BR>
Well, at least the white ones, anyway...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Shh! Be vewy quiet, I'm hunting wuntime ewors!<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:30:00 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Grant (Was: The TML 2000 Land Grab)<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin writes:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
> <BR>
>>I've had a writeup of Forboldn accepted by PYRAMID. Likewise an<BR>
>>adventure set on Grant. I was told that it could take as long <BR>
>>as six months before they appear, but they are on the way.<BR>
> <BR>
>Grant gets a sidebar in a large-format magazine, but I don't<BR>
>recall whether it's Challenge, Traveller's Digest, or<BR>
>Megatraveller Journal.<BR>
 <BR>
I'm concerned to hear that. I had hoped that I had seen all canonical<BR>
info about Grant. I don't think it is in MTJ. It may be in the first half<BR>
of Travellers' Digest, since I only have from #13 on. And it could be in<BR>
Challenge, since I have quite a few holes in my collection.<BR>
<BR>
Could some kind soul find out where it is and let me know? Maybe I have<BR>
time to get hold of it and see if I can fit it into my adventure.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "Could you not begin at the beginning and go on until you come<BR>
	 to the end, and then, if you are able to, stop?"<BR>
	"I'll try," said his lordship, "but I always find the stopping<BR>
	 business so difficult."<BR>
			--- "Murder must advertise" by Dorothy Sayers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:48:39 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Elephant Mounted PAW<BR>
<BR>
Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Uncie,<BR>
> <BR>
> Weeee managed it.<BR>
> <BR>
> The twick was to splittie-wittie the paaackages between multiple<BR>
> elfants.<BR>
> <BR>
> Uncie, have I told you how much I like elfants ?<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
*LOL*<BR>
<BR>
*ROTFLMAO*<BR>
<BR>
*LOL once more*<BR>
<BR>
Oh, the horror! We have six elephants, each with a bunch of machinery on<BR>
their backs. We also have large cables hanging between them. These<BR>
cables along with what counts as a carriage (which would be smaller than<BR>
a normal one) would perhaps be about the same weight as a normal<BR>
carriage.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine the surprise effect if the machinery is put in something looking<BR>
like cermonial elephant saddles...    :-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:57:41 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:30:35 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason to<BR>
> have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is perfectly<BR>
> possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 (or worse)?<BR>
<BR>
Well, one reason against greater jump distances would have to do with how<BR>
the information the network carries would be transferred to neighbouring<BR>
star systems.  If every X-boat jump route was 6 parsecs, you'd have fewer<BR>
stopovers to upload info to the X-boats.<BR>
<BR>
Another reason: Scout/Couriers also work the X-boat routes and they are<BR>
Jump-2.  Limiting your X-boat jump routes to no more than 4 parsecs would<BR>
mean that more worlds surrounding the various jump points could be visited,<BR>
and in less time.  Theoretically, after an X-boat makes a 4 parsec jump, a<BR>
group of jump-2 vessels in the destination star system could have that info<BR>
on its way to every neighbouring star system within a 2 parsec radius in no<BR>
more than a week (provided there were enough ships).  Jump-6 X-boats would<BR>
require equally more expensive jump-3 vessels (and more of them) to perform<BR>
the same task with roughly the same efficiency.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, the purpose of the X-boat route isn't to get info from point-A to<BR>
point-B as *fast* as possible; it's purpose is to distribute news around<BR>
the Imperial populace as *efficiently* as possible.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Real World example...  There are advantages to having pedestrian-controlled<BR>
stop lights at every intersection (ie: safer for pedestrians).  There are<BR>
also advantages to having them much more spread out (less stop-and-go<BR>
driving for automobiles).  Somewhere in between is a happy medium.<BR>
<BR>
> Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back when the<BR>
> imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... X-boat routes were canonically established around 624.  I don't<BR>
know what the Imperium's tech level was in 624, but I can guess :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Shh! Be vewy quiet, I'm hunting wuntime ewors!<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:12:23 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Capital/Core                  083-1117<BR>
> >A press release from the Imperial Palace today confirmed that Grand Princess <BR>
> >Ciencia Iphegenia left Capital with Archduchess Isis Arepo Ilethian at an <BR>
> >unspecified time within the last month. "The Grand Princess and Archduchess <BR>
> >are lifelong friends," the press release "and wished to spend a little more <BR>
> >time together."<BR>
> <BR>
> Reports that the Archduchess and Grand Princess are travelling to Aslan<BR>
> space in search of comfortable shoes could not be confirmed at this time.<BR>
> <BR>
> Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
> dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
> heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
> the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
<BR>
!?!  I had to look twice for the poster's name to be sure that it was<BR>
indeed Doug Berry posting this :)<BR>
<BR>
Why not?  Who knows what Imperial citizens think of sexual orientation in<BR>
5635 AD?<BR>
<BR>
Besides, the Imperial people have accepted megalomaniacs and lunatics in<BR>
the past... a lesbian Empress would raise little more than an eyebrow (pun<BR>
intended).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Shh! Be vewy quiet, I'm hunting wuntime ewors!<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:19:06 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Stellar Data generation<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Shimmergloom<BR>
><BR>
> Some time ago there was a person talking about making a new star data<BR>
> generator.  He was asking for feature suggestions and I said it<BR>
> should have a CAD like feature.  I have since lost my email list and<BR>
> would like to know who this person as and how the program is coming.<BR>
<BR>
It probably wasn't me, but as I am writing one in Java right now, so what do<BR>
yuo mean by it having a "CAD-like" feature ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:19:06 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Stellar Data generation<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Shimmergloom<BR>
><BR>
> Some time ago there was a person talking about making a new star data<BR>
> generator.  He was asking for feature suggestions and I said it<BR>
> should have a CAD like feature.  I have since lost my email list and<BR>
> would like to know who this person as and how the program is coming.<BR>
<BR>
It probably wasn't me, but as I am writing one in Java right now, so what do<BR>
yuo mean by it having a "CAD-like" feature ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 01:30:33 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > From: Steven Bonneville<BR>
> > Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Note: I cannot locate Kagukhasaggan in the Solomani Rim, or by using<BR>
> > > Galactic...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I suspect this is probably Kaguk/Sol, a reasonable place for a flint<BR>
> > boat to be at the end of the Rim War.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes.  "Kaguk" is just a shortened form for Kagukhasaggan, which seems to be<BR>
> of an awkward length for maps.<BR>
<BR>
Note that the board game _Imperium_ (at least 1st GDW edition) has the<BR>
world listed as "Kagukhasaggan", in about the same place as "Kaguk" on<BR>
Galactic 2.4<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that, over the millenia, the Solomani (who are obviously the<BR>
dominant branch of humaniti in Sol subsector by the time of the Solomani<BR>
Rim War) simply shortened an inconvenient Vilani name to the simpler<BR>
form. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:28:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jesse DeGraff<BR>
> Just goes to show you that the best thing for urban warfare is an A-10<BR>
<BR>
The Austin-Healey A-10, while being constructed of finest British steel, and<BR>
thus providing more armour than modern cars, does not provide good<BR>
acceleration or top-speed, and can only carry three full armed troops and a<BR>
driver. Also, it's firing ports are too wide, allowing return fire to easily<BR>
penetrate the vehicle.<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
> Over loudspeakers:  "If you do not cease, desist, and throw down<BR>
> your arms, we are authorized to launch FS A-110 grav gunships,<BR>
> and God help you all."<BR>
<BR>
Why does this remind me of Marvin dealing with the Frogstar fighters in<BR>
Hitchhikers ?<BR>
<BR>
"Such a depressingly stupid machine"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:28:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jesse DeGraff<BR>
> Just goes to show you that the best thing for urban warfare is an A-10<BR>
<BR>
The Austin-Healey A-10, while being constructed of finest British steel, and<BR>
thus providing more armour than modern cars, does not provide good<BR>
acceleration or top-speed, and can only carry three full armed troops and a<BR>
driver. Also, it's firing ports are too wide, allowing return fire to easily<BR>
penetrate the vehicle.<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
> Over loudspeakers:  "If you do not cease, desist, and throw down<BR>
> your arms, we are authorized to launch FS A-110 grav gunships,<BR>
> and God help you all."<BR>
<BR>
Why does this remind me of Marvin dealing with the Frogstar fighters in<BR>
Hitchhikers ?<BR>
<BR>
"Such a depressingly stupid machine"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2142<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2143<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Azhanti High Lightning-class lost in Solomani Rim War<BR>
Wines of the Imperium<BR>
Re: Corsair-B-gon<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
Re: Greece<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Bad Vampire Jokes (was: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab)<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:40:24 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Azhanti High Lightning-class lost in Solomani Rim War<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 2000 11:02, gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Need this answered FAST<BR>
><BR>
>Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser that suffered a boarding action during<BR>
>the Solomani Rim War.<BR>
><BR>
>I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical resolutions<BR>
>given.<BR>
<BR>
	I posted a reply separately to Doug Berry, but for any on the TML still<BR>
wondering, here is a summary.  Just hope it got to Doug in time to help.<BR>
<BR>
	p. 27 of Azhanti High Lightning:<BR>
	"The Battle of Kagukhasaggan 2<BR>
	 Year of the Imperium 1002<BR>
  The Loss of the Bard Endeavour."<BR>
<BR>
	A "large number" of warships accompanying the Solomani dreadnought<BR>
Retaliation ambushed the task force built around the Imperial fleet<BR>
intruder Bard Endeavour (AHL class).  Several of the smaller Imperial ships<BR>
were destroyed that were in the high guard position covering refeulling of<BR>
the task force at the system's gas giant.  All those ships that had managed<BR>
to refuel already left at maximum burn for jump point.  The Bard Endeavour,<BR>
with nearly dry fuel tanks, remained behind to cover their withdrawal.  The<BR>
covering action was successful but, inevitably, the Bard Endeavour was left<BR>
a virtual wreck in a decaying orbit around one of the systems inner<BR>
planets--Kagukhasaggan 2.  Most of the surviving crew managed to evacuate,<BR>
were promptly picked up by Solomani forces and interrogated.  The Solomani<BR>
commander realized that if he acted quickly he might be able to send a<BR>
force of volunteers aboard to overpower the few remaining Imperials in<BR>
Engineering and the emergency bridge, effect very hasty jump drive repairs,<BR>
then make an extremely risky in-system jump to save the disintegrating<BR>
vessel from its decaying orbit.  There were only two or three hours left to<BR>
attempt this.  The Bard Endeavour had certain weapon technology and meson<BR>
screens that made it of very high strategic value if the Solomani could<BR>
capture them for study.  The commander gathered his volunteers, they<BR>
boarded.  The man-to-man fighting was intense, and fought in vacuum<BR>
conditions.  The boarding party failed to secure the ship sufficiently to<BR>
effect hasty repairs and make their planned jump.  They did manage to<BR>
obtain some operational codes from the ship's computer and return to the<BR>
safety of their vessels, in time to witness the final destruction of the<BR>
Bard Endeavour as it suffered catastrophic reentry into Kagukhasaggan 2's<BR>
atmosphere, with 43 valiant crew members still aboard.<BR>
<BR>
	Original copyright was 1980, GDW.  Game designers were credited as Frank<BR>
Chadwick and Marc Miller.  The above is only quoted/paraphrased for<BR>
purposes of private discussion among members of the TML and no infringement<BR>
is intended upon the rights of the copyright holder(s).<BR>
<BR>
	Cute stunt about using the tiny bit of remaining fuel for an in-system jump.<BR>
<BR>
	Wow.  Plenty of heroism to go around for everyone.  The Bard's crew in<BR>
valiantly fighting to cover the withdrawal rather than surrender and save<BR>
their own lives.  The Solomani volunteers who boarded the Bard in<BR>
*extremely* hazardous circumstances and with unfavorable attack odds.  The<BR>
vestiges of the crew who fought to stave off the boarding party so that<BR>
they could die going down with the ship.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:44:56 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
	Apparently, we missed adding Tokaj Eszencia to the potables list.  Such an<BR>
oversight!  And it's the Emperor's favorite!<BR>
<BR>
	Azhanti High Lightning, p. 36 details that "Although the practice of<BR>
importing Terran wine declined, of necessity, during the height of the<BR>
Solomani independence movement, Strephon (the current Emperor) has a taste<BR>
for the white wines of Terra, particularly Tokaj Eszencia, and he has<BR>
reinstituted regular wine runs.  Produced exclusive in the small<BR>
Tokaj-Hegyalja district on the northern slopes of the Carpathian mountains<BR>
[sic], Tokaj is primarily a product of the outstanding but rare Furmint<BR>
grape."  We're also told that the Emperors have long preferred Terran wines<BR>
at their dining tables.  There is a only a little more background<BR>
information, and those wishing to me to send a copy of all the pertinent<BR>
paragraphs should email me off list.  This particular wine was grossly<BR>
overvalued during that period, going for Cr1,000,000 per bottle.  A case<BR>
was 24 bottles.<BR>
<BR>
	The crime of the century was the Great Wine Heist in 1092 when a group of<BR>
adventurers stole three entire cases of the stuff that was aboard an<BR>
Imperial scout cruiser in the AHL class.  The eventual fate of the fourth<BR>
case of Tokaj that was being carried is not given.  The criminals' entire<BR>
plan seems to have been to stowaway inside crates in the cargo hold, break<BR>
out while the cruiser was still in Terran orbit, seize the wine, make their<BR>
way by stealth to the pinnace deck and steal a pinnace for their getaway<BR>
after overpowering any opposition there.  The huge density of orbital<BR>
traffic around Terra prevented the cruiser from getting any shots at the<BR>
fleeing pinnace.  No additional detail is provided about the getaway after<BR>
that.  I can't help but wonder what sort of traffic control system was in<BR>
use that permitted such an anonymous getaway so easily.  The scenario is<BR>
one or more players as the stowed-away criminals, and one or more players<BR>
as the Scout (book says Navy, oops) vessel's crew.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:47:38 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Corsair-B-gon<BR>
<BR>
> From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
> Subject: New from Maalirin Industrie<BR>
><BR>
> Got pirates?  Obnoxious freight conglomorates?  Or just want<BR>
> to keep a lid on wayward ships and would-be revolutionaries?<BR>
> Then what you need is a deep meson site...<BR>
><BR>
> Introducing the new Corsair-B-Gon, by Maalirin Industrie, LIC.<BR>
> An affordably-priced emplacement for worlds that need to watch<BR>
> their budget.<BR>
><BR>
> What is it?  In short, it is a 50 meter barrel with a 4 meter<BR>
> bore, rotating freely in a twenty-thousand cubic meter spherical<BR>
> cavern paved with contragrav units.  It delivers a 400 MJ 'tap'<BR>
> to any offender up to 50,000 km distant, and can even reach<BR>
> out further (up to 500,000 km) with a not-too-shabby 366 MJ<BR>
> wake-up call.<BR>
> FFS2 Stats:<BR>
><BR>
> Name: Maaliriin 50/12 "Corsair-B-Gon" Meson Site       MCr100<BR>
> This product was designed using FFS2, pencil, paper, and a<BR>
> calculator.  Caveat emptor.  What does that damage number<BR>
> really mean?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
400 MJ is about the 50% more than the damage of your average Famile Spofulam<BR>
civilian shipboard laser, except becasue it's a meson gun, it's delivered<BR>
internally.<BR>
<BR>
It will probably scare off corsairs, rogue free traders and such, but it<BR>
wont really hurt serious warships.<BR>
<BR>
I'd also suggest replacing the TAKAFP, becasue it is an abomination in the<BR>
sight of God and Man. Use batteries and a fission plant instead (Fusion Plus<BR>
destroys most of the economics of the Traveller universe. Basically, it<BR>
replaces conventional fusion for just about everything that isnt on at full<BR>
bore all the time).<BR>
<BR>
For Milleau 0 use, I'd suggest building it at TL11. You'll take a bit of a<BR>
performance hit, but the TL12 worlds would be busy building nuke dampers and<BR>
meson screens.<BR>
<BR>
It's good stuff. I like it.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:11:46 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
<BR>
"Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 4:37 PM, Hans Rancke-Madsen rancke@diku.dk<BR>
>issued forth:<BR>
> <BR>
>>There was a detailed writeup of Glisten in an issue of Travellers' Digest<BR>
>>(I forget the number; I can dig it out if someone needs it).<BR>
> <BR>
>Well, BtC is all we have to stay with from what I hear, but I like not<BR>
>contradicting earlier material. <BR>
<BR>
It was a very detailed writeup. My guess is that you will either have to<BR>
ignore it or be reduced to filling in the cracks. Maybe you should<BR>
consider selecting another system.<BR>
<BR>
>If you do get around to it, you could send the appropriate data to<BR>
>Hypercleats at aum@sierratel.com or to me at xrp@sierratel.com or perhaps<BR>
>just post it here. I am sure folks here might like to see it, at least<BR>
>those without that issue. <BR>
<BR>
No doubt they would, but I'm not about to post 6-8 closely written pages of<BR>
copyrighted material. In retrospect I can see that I chose my words poorly.<BR>
I wasn't offering to post the whole thing, I was offering to check what<BR>
issue the article was in.<BR>
<BR>
>If there is some kind of graphic, you can't post /that/ here, but since<BR>
>Glisten is an asteroid belt, I sort of doubt there is a map.<BR>
<BR>
I forgot to check last night (which is also why I'm not giving you the<BR>
number of the issue; I'll try to remember tomorrow), but ISTR that there<BR>
is a system map.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:05:31 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
<BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:30:35 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason to<BR>
>>have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is perfectly<BR>
>>possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 (or worse)?<BR>
> <BR>
>Well, one reason against greater jump distances would have to do with how<BR>
>the information the network carries would be transferred to neighbouring<BR>
>star systems.  If every X-boat jump route was 6 parsecs, you'd have fewer<BR>
>stopovers to upload info to the X-boats.<BR>
<BR>
Why should it be either/or? Use Jump-6 on the main spokes to connect sector<BR>
capitals and lesser jumps for network crossconnections and extensions. Get<BR>
the best of both worlds. <BR>
  <BR>
>>Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back when the<BR>
>>imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
> <BR>
>Hmmm... X-boat routes were canonically established around 624.  I don't<BR>
>know what the Imperium's tech level was in 624, but I can guess :)<BR>
 <BR>
I think Anthony was asking if it was plausible that the network hadn't been<BR>
modernized as the TL of the Imperium increased. After all, it's been nearly<BR>
500 years.<BR>
<BR>
And to answer that question: I wouldn't say it was plausible, but IMO it is<BR>
not _too_ implausible. There must be some very rich, entrenched,<BR>
manufacturers of standard Jump-4 X-boats. After 500 years the profit margin <BR>
could be huge (contracts written when the boats were cutting-edge technology<BR>
and index-regulated ever since while the boats became cheaper and cheaper to<BR>
build). Switching to Jump-6 boats might cause them to lose their comfortable<BR>
cash cow. So, billions spent lobbying the Emperor for sticking to the tried<BR>
and true...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:15:45 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:05:31 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> >On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:30:35 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason to<BR>
> >>have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is perfectly<BR>
> >>possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 (or worse)?<BR>
> > <BR>
> >Well, one reason against greater jump distances would have to do with how<BR>
> >the information the network carries would be transferred to neighbouring<BR>
> >star systems.  If every X-boat jump route was 6 parsecs, you'd have fewer<BR>
> >stopovers to upload info to the X-boats.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why should it be either/or? Use Jump-6 on the main spokes to connect sector<BR>
> capitals and lesser jumps for network crossconnections and extensions. Get<BR>
> the best of both worlds. <BR>
>   <BR>
> >>Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back when the<BR>
> >>imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
> > <BR>
> >Hmmm... X-boat routes were canonically established around 624.  I don't<BR>
> >know what the Imperium's tech level was in 624, but I can guess :)<BR>
>  <BR>
> I think Anthony was asking if it was plausible that the network hadn't been<BR>
> modernized as the TL of the Imperium increased. After all, it's been nearly<BR>
> 500 years.<BR>
> <BR>
> And to answer that question: I wouldn't say it was plausible, but IMO it is<BR>
> not _too_ implausible. There must be some very rich, entrenched,<BR>
> manufacturers of standard Jump-4 X-boats. After 500 years the profit margin <BR>
> could be huge (contracts written when the boats were cutting-edge technology<BR>
> and index-regulated ever since while the boats became cheaper and cheaper to<BR>
> build). Switching to Jump-6 boats might cause them to lose their comfortable<BR>
> cash cow. So, billions spent lobbying the Emperor for sticking to the tried<BR>
> and true...<BR>
<BR>
One likely answer to this thread can be found in the MT Imperial<BR>
Encyclopedia on page 49.  Summarizing:<BR>
<BR>
"Knowing vital facts before they become general knowledge is essential to a<BR>
well-run bureaucracy."<BR>
<BR>
IOW, civvies get to use the Jump-4 X-boat routes to know what's going on,<BR>
while the higher-ups use jump-6 couriers.  Information is power.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Three out of five people aren't the other two.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:35:50 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > On 20 Mar 00, at 10:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> What is cheese? Rotted milk left so long it gets fungal infections and<BR>
> >> clots up. There are many cultures on Earth how simply cannot believe that<BR>
> >> we would willingly put this stuff in our mouths!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Rotted milk is somewhat different from cheese - it's a different kind<BR>
> > of decay/decomposition. Also note that only some types of cheese have<BR>
> > fungi (mold) in them.<BR>
><BR>
> He's describing how cheese is *percieved* by members of some cultures<BR>
> on Earth.<BR>
><BR>
> How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
<BR>
Better yet bird's nest soup?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:41:31 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Any thoughts on Imperial fencing weapons?  While practice foils <BR>
may remain much the same, what sort of weapons might folks be <BR>
using for lethal duels, or on high law level worlds were such things <BR>
are the only weapons you can legally carry?<BR>
<BR>
Some initial ideas:<BR>
<BR>
1) Blunt batons or foils banded with conductive rings which are <BR>
connected to an advanced battery.  Anyone hit with such a weapon <BR>
suffer a taser-like stun.  This type of weapon would make for <BR>
interesting (if painful) bloodless duels.  This feature could also be <BR>
added to pointed & sharp weapons for extra effect).<BR>
<BR>
2) Superdense & bonded superdense rapiers.  They wold never <BR>
need sharpening, they would be exceedingly thin, and might have a <BR>
good chance of cutting though the hood of a TL 8 ground car with <BR>
one blow.  Just the weapon for would-be Zorro types.  <BR>
<BR>
3) Some form of plasma-blade is likely also possible, but it would <BR>
be heavy enough, and hot enough that the user would need to be <BR>
wearing battle dress.  If this weapon could be used with cutlass <BR>
skill, it might be the weapon of choice for particularly gonzo <BR>
marines.  <BR>
<BR>
Other ideas?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:41:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Hans<BR>
> Rancke-Madsen<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 20 March 2000 11:12 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Cc: Hans Rancke-Madsen<BR>
> Subject: Re: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" writes:<BR>
><BR>
> >Via electronic medium on 3/19/00 4:37 PM, Hans Rancke-Madsen<BR>
> rancke@diku.dk<BR>
> >issued forth:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>There was a detailed writeup of Glisten in an issue of<BR>
> Travellers' Digest<BR>
> >>(I forget the number; I can dig it out if someone needs it).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, BtC is all we have to stay with from what I hear, but I like not<BR>
> >contradicting earlier material.<BR>
><BR>
> It was a very detailed writeup. My guess is that you will either have to<BR>
> ignore it or be reduced to filling in the cracks. Maybe you should<BR>
> consider selecting another system.<BR>
><BR>
> >If you do get around to it, you could send the appropriate data to<BR>
> >Hypercleats at aum@sierratel.com or to me at xrp@sierratel.com or perhaps<BR>
> >just post it here. I am sure folks here might like to see it, at least<BR>
> >those without that issue.<BR>
><BR>
> No doubt they would, but I'm not about to post 6-8 closely<BR>
> written pages of<BR>
> copyrighted material. In retrospect I can see that I chose my<BR>
> words poorly.<BR>
> I wasn't offering to post the whole thing, I was offering to check what<BR>
> issue the article was in.<BR>
><BR>
> >If there is some kind of graphic, you can't post /that/ here, but since<BR>
> >Glisten is an asteroid belt, I sort of doubt there is a map.<BR>
><BR>
> I forgot to check last night (which is also why I'm not giving you the<BR>
> number of the issue; I'll try to remember tomorrow), but ISTR that there<BR>
> is a system map.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Actually Glis Ten is an asteroid in the Glis system, and yes there was a<BR>
map of the asteroid belt.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:23:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
> The "neuroses" can give you a bit of a handle.<BR>
> K'Kree don't like tight<BR>
> spaces, and don't like being alone. <BR>
<BR>
When a K'kree is immobilized and injured,and used as a<BR>
bait in an obvious (!) trap,would the herd still take<BR>
the risk and enter it to save it?<BR>
<BR>
> >Does the sight of half-eaten (by the PCs) K'kree<BR>
> cadavers (perhaps<BR>
> >roasted ) unbalance troops enough to make them<BR>
> easier prey?<BR>
> <BR>
> If rock-breaking anger makes them easier prey, sure.<BR>
> You might as well<BR>
> try such mind game atrocities against them, it's not<BR>
> like they weren't<BR>
> going to kill you out-of-hand at first opportunity<BR>
> anyway.<BR>
<BR>
How do you handle the input of<BR>
atrocities,psychological warfare and psi into a battle<BR>
(Gurps has the mechanics),since those are basicly the<BR>
PCs (only) advantages?<BR>
<BR>
> john again:<BR>
> >And what about Psi? Is there something like a<BR>
> K'kree teleporter,since<BR>
> >they're quite massive?<BR>
> <BR>
> I read the K'Kree alien module ages ago, I can't<BR>
> recall anything about<BR>
> psionics in K'Kree society at all. I'd hazard a<BR>
> guess that a K'Kree<BR>
> psionic could teleport, since teleportation for<BR>
> humans doesn't seem<BR>
> to depend on body mass.<BR>
<BR>
We are currently using a TNE/T4 combination of psi,and<BR>
T4 Teleportation depends on mass,so a T4 teleporting<BR>
horse could jump only around 15 m(only naked,of<BR>
course!),if there were any T4 K'kree.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Psionics might be less well developed in K'Kree<BR>
> culture, since it<BR>
> requires action so much on one's own - K'Kree aren't<BR>
> much for that<BR>
> kind of thing. <BR>
<BR>
IIRC,Alien M. stated that they are new to the field<BR>
and somewhat reserved towards it,while Gurps sgave<BR>
psis a standard social stigma.<BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:25:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
<BR>
How do you translate TNE and T4 Psi-Powers into GURPS?<BR>
While there are many conversions for Attributes and<BR>
Skills,there are no one for Psi. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:06:37 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
By the way, my name is Jens, and I am a male. Just so all you Americans<BR>
stop confusing my name with the female name Jen  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
>     The Pan-galactic and Janx... are those something from<BR>
> canon, real life, or YTU? Mind elaborating on either/both of<BR>
> them for me?<BR>
<BR>
Well...<BR>
<BR>
The pan-galactic gargle-blaster (spl?) is a wonderful drink, mixed<BR>
partially from Old Janx Spirit. It also contains lemon juice, gasoline,<BR>
and swamp gas from some remote planet (can't remember which right now),<BR>
as well as a number of other, more esoteric ingredients.<BR>
<BR>
Drinking a pan-galactic gargle-blaster can be compared to having your<BR>
skull crushed with a gold brick wrapped in sliced lemon. Expensive, and<BR>
it really gives a headache.<BR>
<BR>
Old Janx Spirit is a kind of spirit which severely disrupts psionic<BR>
abilities.<BR>
<BR>
Descriptions of these drinks (as well as numerous other important<BR>
things) can be found in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (Adams,<BR>
Douglas). Don't leave home without it!<BR>
<BR>
(really funny book, you *must* read it)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:09:13 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
<BR>
Or cooked bird nests?<BR>
<BR>
Boiled shark fins?<BR>
<BR>
Cooked dog?<BR>
<BR>
Raw fish?<BR>
<BR>
Raw, *living*, slimy things in shells?   (oysters)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:10:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 14:23, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> >>The foil is a very light, pointed weapon designed to cause <BR>
> >>damage by penetrating the presumably unarmored opponent.  <BR>
> ><BR>
> > Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
> > than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
> > the point from penetrating?<BR>
> <BR>
> Chainmail was long gone as armor by the time the foil appeared as a<BR>
> weapon. <BR>
> <BR>
> > Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
> > (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
> > bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
> > made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
> <BR>
> Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in<BR>
> the ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were<BR>
> riveted or welded closed).<BR>
<BR>
With late mail they did better than that. There were alternating rows <BR>
of links, one being rivited, the other being rings that were punched <BR>
out of plates, and so had no join. This makes for very strong mail, but <BR>
requires good quality metal at fairly low prices.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:26:06 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadly Jumpspace<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris wrote:<BR>
> No way, it can't be full of penguins! Penguins can't jump!<BR>
<BR>
Actually, they can jump quite well. You have to remember that they are<BR>
more black than white.<BR>
<BR>
(may penguins be classified as "men"?)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:32:29 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Greece<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> Do you really think you'll get [a reply to a polite complaint]?<BR>
<BR>
No, but I would be positively surprised if I did :-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:59:46 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Actually I might be greedy and grab Rorise/Mora (3022) too; I have already<BR>
done a bunch of work on it and it won't take long to clean up.<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
PS: Forgot I have my display name set to my initials to discourage net<BR>
wierdos.  My name is Andrew Brown.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 05:30:35 +0100<BR>
>From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
?Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
>Taken so far are:<BR>
>   Heya/Regina            Doug Berry<BR>
>   Ylaven/Lanth           Paul Campbell<BR>
>   Mongo/Jewell           Glenn Goffin<BR>
>   Esalin/Jewell          Luther Martin<BR>
>   Wonstar/Five Sisters   Micheal Houghton<BR>
>   Aster/Glisten          AB<BR>
>   L'oeil d'Dieu          Robert O'Connor<BR>
>   Yori/Regina            Peter Trevor<BR>
>   Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor         Volker Greimann<BR>
><BR>
>- ---<BR>
>Volker A. Greimann<BR>
> greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:49:11 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Bad Vampire Jokes (was: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab)<BR>
<BR>
Yes.  Ephraheim Aster b. 1739 (Solomani) d: 1113 (Imperial)<BR>
<BR>
He gave away the anagathic secret the kindred have kept from the Imperium<BR>
and its predecessors for over 5000 years.  He was 3982 years old.<BR>
<BR>
We feel the Imperium would not appreciate sophonts such as us within its<BR>
borders.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Need I say more?<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:55:48 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> I staked Aster (1739) last Thursday.<BR>
<BR>
Why ? Did he break the Masquerade ?<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:47:15 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 19:28, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On 20 Mar 00, at 10:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> >  <BR>
> >> What is cheese? Rotted milk left so long it gets fungal infections and<BR>
> >> clots up. There are many cultures on Earth how simply cannot believe<BR>
> >> that we would willingly put this stuff in our mouths! <BR>
> ><BR>
> > Rotted milk is somewhat different from cheese - it's a different kind of<BR>
> > decay/decomposition. Also note that only some types of cheese have fungi<BR>
> > (mold) in them.<BR>
> <BR>
> He's describing how cheese is *percieved* by members of some cultures on<BR>
> Earth. <BR>
> <BR>
> How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
<BR>
I'd be interested in trying them. How would you like some well cooked <BR>
Huhu grubs?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2143<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2144<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Delta guys' urban warfare techniques<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Need Digest Instructions<BR>
Re: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Plea for help!!<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service>Capital/Core<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
Re: Plea for help!!<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Stellar Data Generation<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Stellar Data Generation<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:57:18 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Delta guys' urban warfare techniques<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 22:01, Laning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  Theory #1  The first supporting argument I can contrive for this theory<BR>
>  is<BR>
> that most troops try to keep to cover, which is usually found near the<BR>
> edges of the streets.  Since troops are the usual target for bullets, the<BR>
> bullets can be found merrily zinging along near the street edges 'cuz<BR>
> that's where the targets are.  The Delta guys are thus outsmarting nobody<BR>
> except themselves.<BR>
<BR>
The whole idea of walking down the middle of a street, out in the open <BR>
in a hostile area gives me the heebies.<BR>
<BR>
>  Theory #3   Best supporting argument I've created so far is that<BR>
> parked/abandoned vehicles and whatnot clutter up the street, thus making<BR>
> it very difficult for people on one side of the street to fire at things<BR>
> on the other side.  Vehicles mostly being found along the curbs, shooters<BR>
> are restricted to narrow lanes in between these parked vehicles and the<BR>
> buildings on their own side of the street.  This argument isn't incredibly<BR>
> strong, but does have at least some merit.<BR>
<BR>
So go out into the open, give yourself a clear field of fire. That's <BR>
about like standing on top of a hill to have a look around.<BR>
<BR>
>  Building to building fighting in Beirut and other places with intense<BR>
> infantry combat in a modern urban setting suggested that successful troops<BR>
> seize the high ground and go up to the tops of skyscrapers.  Hotels and<BR>
> such places.  They then fire *down* at pretty much any part of the street<BR>
> that inspires them, with a merry lack of discrimination.  The notion has<BR>
> been advanced that vertical envelopment operations by helicopter be<BR>
> planned to immediately seize the tops of buildings with the most<BR>
> commanding views, and only secondary priority be placed on seizing ground<BR>
> level.<BR>
<BR>
From what I saw of footage from the baklans this is only a good idea <BR>
when the other doesn't have artillery or tanks. If they do being up in <BR>
a tall building is really, really dumb. Tank main gun rounds make a <BR>
serious mess of whole floors at a time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:02:50 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 23:24, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/20/00 at 02:23 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >> Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
> >> (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
> >> bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
> >> made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
> <BR>
> >Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in the<BR>
> >ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were riveted<BR>
> >or welded closed).<BR>
> <BR>
> Wasn't there something called a bodkin point, long, thin, very sharp, made<BR>
> for punching through chainmail?<BR>
<BR>
Actually it was made for punching through plates. You didn't need that <BR>
narrow a point for mail.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:02:50 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Mar 00, at 22:38, Walt Smith wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> >Interesting canon issue here - if this be canon then in-system jumps use<BR>
> >less fuel than interstellar jumps. This the later be canon then this<BR>
> >passage (and the whole scenario as well).<BR>
> <BR>
> Nope.<BR>
> <BR>
> Take a look at Sol subsector. Kaguk/Sol, the system where this<BR>
> battle probably took place, is Jump-2 from Mukhaldim, Jump-3 from<BR>
> Cymbeline, and Jump-3 from Ember. It's Jump-1 from nowhere.<BR>
> Jump-0 takes the same fuel as Jump-1, so it's reasonable that<BR>
> Bard Endeavor had enough fuel for an in-system jump, without <BR>
> having enough fuel to get to another star system.<BR>
<BR>
If the Impies jumped into a system and had some ships with J-1 worth of <BR>
fuel in them and didn't have an emergency deep-space rendezvous then <BR>
they deserve everything they got.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:13:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/20/00 at 02:23 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>> Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
>>> (one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
>>> bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
>>> made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
><BR>
>>Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in the<BR>
>>ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were riveted<BR>
>>or welded closed).<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't there something called a bodkin point, long, thin, very sharp, made <BR>
> for punching through chainmail?<BR>
<BR>
Yep, but it still takes a lot of force to break the ring by<BR>
*stretching* it, which is what you are doing.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:15:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>> 2. A world where sex for reproduction is performed out of necessity,<BR>
>> with no real feelings and *real* relationships are between members<BR>
>> of the same sex. (Based on ancient Greece)<BR>
><BR>
> A gross oversimplification, and in my humble opinion, a mischaracterization<BR>
> as well. People tend to read things into texts which don't appear, and once<BR>
> a certain interpretation appears, other scholars tend to fall in line. I've<BR>
> seen a lot of interpretations of passages from Ancient Greek texts that seem<BR>
> to see things that aren't there.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, but it's something that *would* evolve, both from the misreading<BR>
of those texts and from some "gay seperatist" types that currently<BR>
exist. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:09:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Pine forest is pretty open as well, because the pine needles kill many<BR>
>>sorts of undergrowth.<BR>
><BR>
> Depends. Much of the sub-arctic coniferous forest is extremely dense;<BR>
> sometimes trees every 1.5-2m, and all of them with base diameters of<BR>
> 1-1.5m. Common animal trails will have 0.25-0.75m of "branchless" area. The<BR>
> spots UNDER the tree canopies, however, tend to be about 0.25-0.5m of<BR>
> clearance, and filled with the needles. However, some types of moss,<BR>
> lichen, and weed grow under their canopies.<BR>
><BR>
> Fir and Pine are so close in appearance, but in general, the alaskan fir<BR>
> varieties tend to have branches starting about 0.25 to 1m from ground, and<BR>
> sloping down and out.<BR>
><BR>
> BTW, having been in Oregon's mountains, yes, Leonard's quite right about<BR>
> much of the coniferous pine in coastal and western side of the mountains<BR>
> being quite open. Especially old-growth. trees 2-5 m apart, little<BR>
> low-ground cover, conifers begin branching much higher with height, 1-10m<BR>
> before branching is apparent...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I was thinking of the forests in Eastern Washington (Spokane)<BR>
where I grew up.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:11:58 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 12:09, Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
> <BR>
> Or cooked bird nests?<BR>
<BR>
This I dunno about.<BR>
<BR>
> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds Ok<BR>
<BR>
> Cooked dog?<BR>
<BR>
Yep. An ex-flatmate told me how to cook dog so as to avoid the <BR>
gameiness and stringyness. Haven't tried it, though.<BR>
<BR>
> Raw fish?<BR>
<BR>
Been there, done that.<BR>
<BR>
> Raw, *living*, slimy things in shells?   (oysters)<BR>
<BR>
Yum.<BR>
<BR>
How about raw red meat?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:42:05 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Need Digest Instructions<BR>
<BR>
Could someone please e-mail me off-list instructions for the digest? Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra<BR>
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:56:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         Azhanti High Lightning, p. 36 details that "Although the practice of<BR>
> importing Terran wine declined, of necessity, during the height of the<BR>
> Solomani independence movement, Strephon (the current Emperor) has a taste<BR>
> for the white wines of Terra, particularly Tokaj Eszencia, and he has<BR>
> reinstituted regular wine runs.  Produced exclusive in the small<BR>
> Tokaj-Hegyalja district on the northern slopes of the Carpathian mountains<BR>
> [sic], Tokaj is primarily a product of the outstanding but rare Furmint<BR>
> grape."  <BR>
<BR>
Riiight. "Tokaj" is almost certainly pronounced "toe-kay". And I seem<BR>
to recall "Tokay" being a favorite of winos, because it was *cheap* and<BR>
moderately strong. Anybody have any idea what "Eszencia" and "Hegyalja"<BR>
mean? I smell an in-joke...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:50:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > On 20 Mar 00, at 10:03, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >> What is cheese? Rotted milk left so long it gets fungal infections and<BR>
>> >> clots up. There are many cultures on Earth how simply cannot believe <BR>
> that<BR>
>> >> we would willingly put this stuff in our mouths!<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Rotted milk is somewhat different from cheese - it's a different kind<BR>
>> > of decay/decomposition. Also note that only some types of cheese have<BR>
>> > fungi (mold) in them.<BR>
>><BR>
>> He's describing how cheese is *percieved* by members of some cultures<BR>
>> on Earth.<BR>
>><BR>
>> How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
><BR>
> Better yet bird's nest soup?<BR>
<BR>
I had enough trouble deciding to try a dish with sea-cucumber in it,<BR>
having seen movies of the damn things in science class. It turns out to<BR>
be a bit chewy, but otherwise not bad. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:07:23 -0400<BR>
From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
Subject: Plea for help!!<BR>
<BR>
Is there some kind TMLer out there who could be so good as to either point<BR>
out where I can locate a copy of Bruce Macintosh's MCS, or be so good as to<BR>
send me a copy off list?  I am doing some military ship-design related<BR>
projects, and a ship design is meaningless without a system to evaluate it,<BR>
<BR>
Thank!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:21:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 06:25 PM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>Any chance we'll see these published in some form? :)<BR>
<BR>
Who knows? If we get enough good entries, we might be able to nudge Dom and<BR>
Andy.<BR>
<BR>
What would be nice is if we could do a "pilot's guide to the *blank*<BR>
subsector." book.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:26:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service>Capital/Core<BR>
<BR>
At 01:59 PM 3/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>4. Various cultures whose fundamental cultural assumptions are what<BR>
>   *we* would consider to be serious mental illnesses. For example a<BR>
>   culture based on paranoia. (See various anthro texts)<BR>
<BR>
My Heya write is based on the wonderful folk of the Maine coast. Try to ge<BR>
to words out of them, strong religious background, simple lives.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:24:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
At 11:12 PM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
>> dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the<BR>
>> heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to<BR>
>> the point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
><BR>
>!?!  I had to look twice for the poster's name to be sure that it was<BR>
>indeed Doug Berry posting this :)<BR>
<BR>
As a member of the GLBT community, I'm always sensitive to such concerns.<BR>
One of the people at GLAAD put it this way: "It's easy to accept gay rights<BR>
in theory. Seeing two bearded men kissing next door is harder."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:54:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Plea for help!!<BR>
<BR>
At 09:07 AM 3/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Is there some kind TMLer out there who could be so good as to either point<BR>
>out where I can locate a copy of Bruce Macintosh's MCS, or be so good as to<BR>
>send me a copy off list?  I am doing some military ship-design related<BR>
>projects, and a ship design is meaningless without a system to evaluate it,<BR>
<BR>
apointer to a site would be good, as my copy vanished as well.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:03:14 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Sure, but it's something that *would* evolve, both from the <BR>
> misreading of those texts and from some "gay seperatist" types that <BR>
> currently exist. <BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, I didn't realize that this was indeed what you were going for.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:10:57 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
One of the assumptions of my Traveller Universe is that<BR>
about 1 week after the Terran Confederation hit TL 12<BR>
and started manufacturing superdense for ship hulls<BR>
that several blade weapons enthusiasts started trying<BR>
to make blade weapons, specifically swords, out of it.<BR>
<BR>
Given the higher density of superdense there are three<BR>
basic weapon design paths they tried<BR>
<BR>
1) Exact same design but in Superdense.<BR>
2) Thinner blades<BR>
3) New designs taking the materials strength and<BR>
weaknesses into account. <BR>
<BR>
The third approach was the hardest but had the best results.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU Superdense is, among other things, not very flexible. <BR>
Making swords out of it was _hard_. But by about -2215<BR>
or so a CPO of japanese and spanish descent had figured <BR>
it out. He then started to make swords. He kept the first<BR>
good one (fine in GURPS terms) for himself but gave <BR>
the first excellent (very fine in GURPS terms) to his CO.<BR>
<BR>
His CO just happened to be Admiral Hiroshi Estigarriba.<BR>
_The_ Admiral Estigarriba who founded the Rule of Man.<BR>
<BR>
Upon his death Admiral Estigarribia's death his successor<BR>
had himself crowned Emperor Hiroshi II. As part of the<BR>
ceremony he used Estigarribia's sword. The sword thus became<BR>
one of the symbols of the office of the Emperor of the<BR>
Rule of Man.<BR>
<BR>
The Sword was lost during the Long Night. It was recovered<BR>
by Cleon. It was lost again during the Civil War. Today<BR>
the Sword is, in IMTU, the equivalent of the Holy Grail.<BR>
The Sword symbolizes the authority of the Emperors of the<BR>
Rule of Man. Since the Third Imperium traces it's legitimacy<BR>
back to the first two Empire's it needs the Sword. Right<BR>
now (milieu 1100) the Third Imperium is using a later<BR>
sword by the same armorer as its sword of state but they<BR>
sure would like to find the original - especially before<BR>
the Solomani do....<BR>
<BR>
I have not refereed Traveller in 15+ years so I never got<BR>
a chance to use the Sword in an adventure. I need to find<BR>
a good name for the Sword. I need a name for its forger.<BR>
<BR>
Sword Stats<BR>
<BR>
MT	SuperDense Broadsword		Pen 11 (Pen 7 if wielder<BR>
is less than Str 10) Block 3 Dammage 4<BR>
[Base Broadsword stats Pen 7 (Pen 4 if less than Str 10)<BR>
Block 2, Dammage 3]<BR>
<BR>
GURPS<BR>
<BR>
Very Fine Superdense Katana<BR>
[two handed use]Cut	swing+1d6+4 [Armor Divisor = 5]<BR>
			Imp	Thrust+1d6+4<BR>
[Base dammage for Katana, +2  for being very find +1d6<BR>
for being made of Superdense +1 just to make it the best<BR>
sword out there. Base armor divisor for superdense Katanas<BR>
=3, 4 for very fine ones (better blade) 5 for this<BR>
weapon because its the best]<BR>
<BR>
Value = Priceless. Other swords by the same maker sell<BR>
in the hundreds of millions of credits range.<BR>
[If a bottle of wine can go for a million credits a<BR>
sword can go for 300 million credits. It is only<BR>
money after all. Any good multibillionaire knows<BR>
that anyone can buy a fancy yacht but these swords are<BR>
scarce.]<BR>
<BR>
It's worth your life if anyone knows that you have it. <BR>
You could easily get two or three billion credits for it <BR>
but whoever would pay that much would probably kill you <BR>
afterwords to stop you from talking. <BR>
<BR>
Your best bet would be to turn it over to the Emperor <BR>
- - you'd probably end up with a hereditary Baroncy, one <BR>
or two hundred million credits in attached estates, <BR>
Enemies (20 points worth in GURPS terms) and the chance <BR>
to take the Emperor as a Patron.	<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
	pnewman@gci.net		Peter Newman<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding.  I<BR>
mean all you had to do was admit you were wrong and I was <BR>
right and everything wouldve been fine. Ivanova to Winters<BR>
in Babylon 5 Divided Loyalties<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:14:39 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The "neuroses" can give you a bit of a handle.<BR>
> > K'Kree don't like tight<BR>
> > spaces, and don't like being alone. <BR>
> <BR>
> When a K'kree is immobilized and injured,and used as a<BR>
> bait in an obvious (!) trap,would the herd still take<BR>
> the risk and enter it to save it?<BR>
<BR>
No. The individual is expendable, the Herd is paramount. Risking the Herd<BR>
to save an individual is not a motivation. Look at it this way: watch some<BR>
documentary on the veldt in Africa. Does the herd of wildebeest turn and<BR>
charge the lions when they take a straggler? No. Their only perceived<BR>
safety is _as a group_. A lone K'Kree (injured or not!) is already dead to<BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
This is not to say that _some_ herd animals do defend members,<BR>
particularly young, but that is a different situation from war.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, it's more than likely that the K'Kree would be using wounded<BR>
human as bait instead. Humans are pack animals, as compared to herd<BR>
animals (in a very broad and crudely delineated sense, but it's one reason<BR>
wolves and us have gotten along so famously for about 40k years, except<BR>
we call 'em dogs now) <BR>
<BR>
Packs tend to be smaller, and more willing to assist<BR>
an injured/sick/otherwise disabled member. Again, this is a broad<BR>
generalization, not all pack animals do this all the time, but it is a<BR>
sufficiently common phenomonon, and has been seen among wolves, dolphins<BR>
and orcas. (and humans, of course; it's a common thing. We'll risk the<BR>
lives of dozens of rescuers, trying to save some idiot who shouldn't have <BR>
been up in those montains in the first place. Willingly, again and again.)<BR>
<BR>
We could use that trick on Aslan or Vargr, I'll bet, but a K'Kree would<BR>
just look at the injured one and think 'Aha! There's a downed K'Kree.<BR>
Those degenerate G'naak must be around somewhere waiting to feed....they<BR>
never go far from their prey.'<BR>
<BR>
 <click> "This is battalion commander J'Katgh. We have found a<BR>
concentration of the enemy, request an orbital strike on map hexes A234<BR>
through C236 inclusive."<BR>
<BR>
He sits back and watches. In about 30 seconds, a square kilometer around<BR>
the downed K'Kree explodes. A couple of times, just to make sure.<BR>
<BR>
To the K'Kree, 'Let's nuke it from orbit!' isn't a desperate measure, it's<BR>
SOP.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:22:25 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Have you noticed that in the GURPS Traveller universe<BR>
> Strephon has been sending all other the members of the<BR>
> Imperial Household off on long junkets to outlying<BR>
> domains? Why is he sending them away from Core?<BR>
> What fiendish plans does he have?<BR>
> <BR>
> ObMovies: See "The Lion in Winter" for hints of what<BR>
> people will do for a small portion of one planet, to<BR>
> say nothing of rule over 11,000+ planets.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
OOOhhhh! Or the Godfather I & II, after Don Corelone dies. Michael sends<BR>
his family and consigliere off to Vegas 'to see to the growing Family<BR>
Business interests there'. Meanwhile he's laying the groundwork for<BR>
whacking all the heads of the Families who plotted against him. Maybe<BR>
Strephon has decided that appointing those Archdukes was a bad idea...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:51:55 +0000<BR>
From: Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie><BR>
Subject: Re: Stellar Data Generation<BR>
<BR>
I was planning on doing something along those lines as a project to do while<BR>
learning java, but it fell apart for a number of reasons. One is lack of time,<BR>
the other is that i'd need a lap top to use it in gaming sessions ;-><BR>
<BR>
I have a program for Dos written in C/C++ that was an early trial version,<BR>
which gave a view of space near earth (From the Gliesse data). <BR>
<BR>
I'll still try to get round to it but I wouldn't hold my breath.<BR>
<BR>
- -Brian Caball<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:43:18 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> Sabre, Fencing: A modified foil, slightly heavier due to slightly longer<BR>
> length. Different hilt and grip, as well as stance. Target areas also<BR>
> differ for competitive fencing.<BR>
<BR>
Heh heh heh. And sabre fencers forget that the point is valid too. I got<BR>
stuck in a sabre competition once (basically our fencing club didn't have<BR>
our regular sabre people with us, so I was roused from my spot slumped on<BR>
the floor (24 hours without sleep'll do that to yah) handed a sabre, and<BR>
told go over there and fence)<BR>
<BR>
A little cut and parry here and there, and I saw an opening, went in with<BR>
what was possibly the most perfect-form foil lunge I'd ever done, nailed<BR>
the guy smack in the middle of the chest. Surprised the hell out of him<BR>
and the judge.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, sabre blades don't quite have the elastic modulus of foil<BR>
blades, so we had to stop while I scrounged up another sabre blade, as I<BR>
bent the hell out of the first one.<BR>
<BR>
Epee, is a different thing _entirely_ from foil. The entire body is a<BR>
valid target, and is rougher. Of the three fencing weapons, epee is the<BR>
closest to using a real sword. The best fencer I ever met (he'd won a<BR>
medal in the epee at the Olympics, and was a coach at a development<BR>
workshop I went to) was phenomenally fast.<BR>
<BR>
He scored once in something like 1.2 seconds. The match started, he took a<BR>
hop, and a lunge that went out foreeeeeeevvvvvveeeerr, and nailed his<BR>
opponent on the wrist, right under the bell of his epee. BAM! The opponent<BR>
literally didn't see what hit him.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, this is making me nostalgic...lordy I'm fat, slow and about as<BR>
limber as a log these days...but I should see if the Fencing Club is still<BR>
around...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:56:26 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Stellar Data Generation<BR>
<BR>
I have stellar data within 150 ly of Earth if that's of any use.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
Subject: Re: Stellar Data Generation<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I have a program for Dos written in C/C++ that was an early trial version,<BR>
>which gave a view of space near earth (From the Gliesse data). <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:57:55 +0200<BR>
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
> than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
> the point from penetrating?<BR>
<BR>
	It is unlikely that a rapier could penetrate mail armor.<BR>
<BR>
	A well-made mail armor is very dense, and the only blade which <BR>
	fits though is a knitting needle. In the common 1-4 mail pattern <BR>
	each link is chained with 4 other links. When the mail is made <BR>
	with small links of thick wire, one can see only little light <BR>
	through the armor.<BR>
<BR>
	Thrusting blades designed to pierce mail armor have strong <BR>
	conical or wedge-shaped point, which is used to break through <BR>
	the links, not slip through the link holes.<BR>
<BR>
	A narrow rapier blade might penetrate a few millimeters (1-2 mm) <BR>
	through a flimsy mail, but the penetration is likely to be so <BR>
	shallow that any padding under armor would prevent the blade <BR>
	from touching the skin.<BR>
<BR>
	Modern commercially available mail armor (novalite) is very <BR>
	durable and it is very difficult to penetrate with knives or <BR>
	hunting arrows. Novalite is used in butcher's safety gloves and <BR>
	diver's anti-shark suits.	<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
      Antti Lahtinen                lahtinen@ee.tut.fi<BR>
      Researcher, MSc (Eng)         http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2144<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2145<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2144<BR>
Plea for help!!<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres  <BR>
Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Plea for help!!<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
Re: Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
RE: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:07:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: James Jeffers <jjeffers@cise.ufl.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2144<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
James Jeffers<BR>
IBM Network Operating Systems Technology Support<BR>
jeffers1@us.ibm.com  jjeffers@cise.ufl.edu<BR>
<BR>
http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~jjeffers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:13:42 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Plea for help!!<BR>
<BR>
>Is there some kind TMLer out there who could be so good as to either point<BR>
>out where I can locate a copy of Bruce Macintosh's MCS, or be so good as to<BR>
>send me a copy off list?  I am doing some military ship-design related<BR>
>projects, and a ship design is meaningless without a system to evaluate it,<BR>
<BR>
I can send you a copy (though you might have to remind me.)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and a couple of notes to the TML as a whole: These days I'm mostly<BR>
just skimming, so if you want me to notice something, give it a meaningful<BR>
subjet line (ie "MCS" rather than "A Plea For Help".)<BR>
<BR>
Also - to those who do have my stuff on their web pages (mostly  the<BR>
sensor rules, I think) or other references to my email address - could you<BR>
change it to reflect this address rather than bmac@astro.ucla.edu? The<BR>
latter now gets autoforwarded to my work address at the Lawrence<BR>
Livermore National Laboratory, where humorless security people may<BR>
read most messages...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:22:58 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
- --- Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > The "neuroses" can give you a bit of a handle.<BR>
> > > K'Kree don't like tight<BR>
> > > spaces, and don't like being alone. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > When a K'kree is immobilized and injured,and used<BR>
> as a<BR>
> > bait in an obvious (!) trap,would the herd still<BR>
> take<BR>
> > the risk and enter it to save it?<BR>
> <BR>
> No. The individual is expendable, the Herd is<BR>
> paramount. Risking the Herd<BR>
> to save an individual is not a motivation. Look at<BR>
> it this way: watch some<BR>
> documentary on the veldt in Africa. Does the herd of<BR>
> wildebeest turn and<BR>
> charge the lions when they take a straggler? No.<BR>
> Their only perceived<BR>
> safety is _as a group_. A lone K'Kree (injured or<BR>
> not!) is already dead to<BR>
> them.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure.While I made the mistake to give away the<BR>
AM as a gift,I still have the Gurps write-up,where<BR>
they have a vulnerability to grief,making them<BR>
disturbed by death or injured horses.However,how<BR>
suicidal can this get?<BR>
They're clearly no animals,and don't behave like those.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:23:56 -0400<BR>
From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On the topic of odd foods.<BR>
<BR>
My 7 year old went with his class to the museum today, where they got to<BR>
sample some sort of fired insect - millipede I think.  He liked it, said it<BR>
tasted like popcorn.<BR>
<BR>
I have mixed feelings about this.  Since he won't eat meat otherwise, I may<BR>
have to learn some new cooking skills.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:35:14 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
>>>Ah, but the second jump drive wouldn't *be* in jump space... it would be<BR>
>>>inside the bubble of n-space.<BR>
>> 	Sure it would, IMTU.  As I mentioned earlier, IMTU the jump drive<BR>
>> 	pushes the starship out of n-space and then shuts down.  The ship<BR>
>> 	then drifts through j-space for about a week, without any functioning<BR>
>> 	jump drive.  There is no bubble.  YMMV.<BR>
>No hydrogen bubble, or no dimensional jump barrier?<BR>
<BR>
	Neither.<BR>
<BR>
>I didn't mean bubble, as in the "hydrogen gas pocket surrounding the ship"<BR>
>TML theory.  I meant "bubble", as in everything within the *field* that<BR>
>forms the boundary between J-space and the inside of the ship.<BR>
>*Something* has to separate the physics of J-space outside the hull with<BR>
>the physics of N-space (or whatever you want to call it) within that<BR>
>region.  My point was that since the jumpdrive itself (or the lanthanum<BR>
>grid, for that matter) isn't actually *in* J-space, the ship is still<BR>
>technically within a pocket of N-space :)<BR>
<BR>
	I'm not very familiar with canon on this issue, and I will certainly<BR>
	not try to disparage YTU, but that's not how it works IMTU.  I have<BR>
	no bubble, no lanthanum grid, no field, no boundery between n-space<BR>
	and j-space, and no pocket.  The ship, drives, crew, passengers,<BR>
	cargo, cutlery, and dust-bunnies are all in j-space.  The physics are<BR>
	no different, it's just that you are moving /sideways/ to the universe.<BR>
<BR>
	Having thought about this a bit more, I suppose that activating the<BR>
	jump drive IMTU would probably result in a missjump.  In fact, <BR>
	firing up the maneuver drive would probably change your destination<BR>
	(within the target system), though in an entirely unpredictable<BR>
	fashion.<BR>
<BR>
>Now if you were to activate a second, *smaller* lanthanum grid within the<BR>
>first, you'd have a Russian Doll version of a starship-- with each<BR>
>diminishing pocket of N-space shifting into another dimension of J-space.<BR>
>I don't even wanna think about what happens to the left behind "layers",<BR>
>never mind the smaller N-space pocket :)<BR>
<BR>
	If your pocket of n-space acts like a pocket universe, then any jump<BR>
	from that universe should end in the same universe, ne c'est pas?<BR>
	What would happen if the pocket universe has ceased to exist (your<BR>
	ship has ended its first jump) is an interesting question.  Any<BR>
	volunteers want to try it ;)<BR>
<BR>
	Here is a question for the bubble-theory jumpers: what happens if<BR>
	the jump drive is left "turned on" for more than one week in j-space?<BR>
	If I understand the theory, the ship is kept in j-space by the jump<BR>
	drive (the ship will 'drop' out of jump space if the drive fails).<BR>
	What happens when a jump-1 starship with 80% fuel tankage stays in<BR>
	jump as long as possible?<BR>
<BR>
>Do your lanthanum grids remain energized while in J-space, or are they<BR>
>energized only when entering J-space?<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	See above.<BR>
<BR>
>Personally, I don't want to think about it, and I hope my players (?) never<BR>
>ask :)<BR>
<BR>
	I know what you mean  :)<BR>
<BR>
	You can always tell them that their players just don't know, and any<BR>
	NPC jump-physicist that they ask just gives them an incomprehensible<BR>
	mathematical explanation.  Players hate that  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:41:43 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Terry Pratchett had a chainmailed character in _Lords and Ladies_<BR>
>(one of his Discworld novels) surrender when threatened by a<BR>
>bow, as he thought that to arrows, a suit of chainmail was armor <BR>
>made of holes. I don't know how accurate this point of view is.<BR>
<BR>
and Eris chimes in:<BR>
>Wasn't there something called a bodkin point, long, thin, very<BR>
>sharp, made for punching through chainmail?<BR>
<BR>
then Rupert Boleyn points out:<BR>
>Actually it was made for punching through plates. You didn't need<BR>
>that narrow a point for mail.<BR>
<BR>
and Leonard Erickson adds:<BR>
>Yep, but it still takes a lot of force to break the ring by<BR>
>*stretching* it, which is what you are doing.<BR>
<BR>
	I was under the impression that there were arrows specifically<BR>
	designed to penitrate chainmail.  IIRC they had long, narrow<BR>
	heads designed to either slip between the links or at least<BR>
	stretch them enough to get through.  I will try to remember to<BR>
	check a book on the subject tonight.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:45:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>I still have the Gurps write-up,where they have a vulnerability to <BR>
>grief,making them disturbed by death or injured horses.However,how <BR>
>suicidal can this get? <BR>
<BR>
"Disturbed"? They must mean "more disturbed than humans get when<BR>
another human is hurt or killed", as disadvantages reflect differences<BR>
from the norm. I hadn't read that about K'Kree, and it seems opposite<BR>
to the little reading on K'Kree philosophy I have done ("Religion in<BR>
the Two Thousand Worlds", from JTAS #24), which emphasizes a strong <BR>
stoiciscm.<BR>
<BR>
john again:<BR>
>They're clearly no animals,and don't behave like those (wildebeests). <BR>
<BR>
I think the point is that K'Kree are not humans, either. Where our<BR>
interpersonal relations are based on primate social patterns - some<BR>
anthropologists say we're a helluva lot more like chimps than we<BR>
want to admit - the interpersonal relations between K'Kree are based<BR>
on a different origin, and will show far different results.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, basic K'Kree psychology is to wild horse herds as human<BR>
psychology is to chimpanzee troops.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:58:19 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>    How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
>The hydrogen molecule is *very* small. It'll *flow* thru seals that are<BR>
>merely "airtight". It'll even leak thru solid metal if there's a decent<BR>
>pressure differential. And in the process, it'll make a number of<BR>
>metals quite brittle. And if there's oxygen on the other side of the<BR>
>seal or other barrier, you now have a fire/explosion hazard once the<BR>
>concentration of hydrogen inside gets high enough.<BR>
<BR>
	If you will pardon the pun, this argument seams a little thin.<BR>
<BR>
	Sorry, I just had to write that.  I can easily believe that some H2<BR>
	will seep through the vacc suit, but at TL's where fuel bladders<BR>
	can carry H2 in a starship hold, I would expect the amount of H2 to<BR>
	be small and easily managed by standard life support systems.  I<BR>
	hadn't realized that H2 could diffuse through solid metal, what kind<BR>
	of pressure differential is required to make this flow significant?<BR>
	Is the metal made brittle by chemical reactions?  Are sparks likely<BR>
	inside a vacc suit?<BR>
<BR>
	The way it is explained, I would expect any H2 atmosphere to be<BR>
	insidious.  Is this what is being proposed?<BR>
<BR>
and William F. Hostman writes:<BR>
>One: Free Hydrogen is readily available to combine with other substances to<BR>
>thus become non-free, and especially acidic compounds...<BR>
<BR>
	My chemistry is a little rusty, is this likely to happen with free H2?<BR>
	The Hindenburg didn't acidify itself, did it?<BR>
<BR>
>two: Free hydrogen WILL sublimate through most materials. Quite readily.<BR>
>And, if it slowly does so, fire will result in the oxygen atmosphere with<BR>
>minimal encouragement; at least, unless you exceed the burnability level.<BR>
<BR>
	I just figured that the flow of H2 would be very low, much lower than<BR>
	that of CO2, etc., that is flushed from the system.  I suppose that<BR>
	it might build up if no life support systems were able to flush it<BR>
	well.  This would make any H2 atmosphere Insidious.<BR>
<BR>
>3 Free hydrogen can make certain compounds brittle through various means.<BR>
<BR>
	Is this true of H2 in general, or just liquid H2?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:04:58 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> > How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
>> Or cooked bird nests?<BR>
>This I dunno about.<BR>
<BR>
	It's the bird saliva (used to glue the nest together) that is boiled<BR>
	out of the nests that make it really yummy.  Not to mention any other<BR>
	...um... impurities.  Makes you wonder who first got the bright idea<BR>
	to make 'food' out of these things.<BR>
<BR>
	ObTrav: What things are eaten on various worlds that are from apparently<BR>
	entirely non-food sources?  Hair soup?  Nail-clipping paste?  A drink<BR>
	made from the urine of a local animal?  Muffins made from mud?  Poison<BR>
	fish liver?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:04:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres  <BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>I can easily believe that some H2 will seep through the vacc suit, <BR>
>but at TL's where fuel bladders can carry H2 in a starship hold, <BR>
>I would expect the amount of H2 to be small and easily managed by <BR>
>standard life support systems<BR>
<BR>
Ship Operator's Manual talks about double-walled tanks and catalysts<BR>
to trap the seeping hydrogen. Collapsible tanks - which are probably<BR>
more like rigid-walled modules than big bags - should have similar<BR>
systems.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:27:23 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Parahumans and Solomani<BR>
<BR>
In message <38D1EA89.C490AC32@worldnet.att.net>, Evyn MacDude<BR>
<wmacdude@worldnet.att.net> writes<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>R.D. Elliott wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>         Ritual?  I was under the impression that cannibalism was a<BR>
>> significant if not major part of the diet...<BR>
><BR>
>Sure what do you think they did with the body at the Funeral?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
What funeral?  The body didn't make it through the wake (or "baarbi" as<BR>
the Vilani call it).<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:41:50 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Antti Lahtinen wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
>         Modern commercially available mail armor (novalite) is very<BR>
>         durable and it is very difficult to penetrate with knives or<BR>
>         hunting arrows. Novalite is used in butcher's safety gloves and<BR>
>         diver's anti-shark suits.<BR>
<BR>
The key words here are 'modern mail armor'. Such fine, strong mesh was<BR>
quite unattainable given the technology available to smiths in the eras<BR>
when chain mail was prevalent.<BR>
<BR>
Also, this form of mail is designed to defend against sharp, cutting<BR>
instruments (butcher knives and sharks teeth) I'd like to see how it<BR>
holds up against a good whack with a battle axe or broadsword..<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:46:25 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Plea for help!!<BR>
<BR>
And I bet topics like 'Particle Beam Weapons Design' _really_ catches<BR>
their eye! The 'Elephant Mounted' part might throw them, though wasn't<BR>
there some Sovblock equipment Nato called the 'Elefant' ?<BR>
<BR>
However, given their proximity to Roswell, I'm sure they and their Grey<BR>
masters keep a close eye on us anyway...;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Also - to those who do have my stuff on their web pages (mostly  the<BR>
> sensor rules, I think) or other references to my email address - could you<BR>
> change it to reflect this address rather than bmac@astro.ucla.edu? The<BR>
> latter now gets autoforwarded to my work address at the Lawrence<BR>
> Livermore National Laboratory, where humorless security people may<BR>
> read most messages...<BR>
> <BR>
> Bruce<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:55:33<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
At 11:23 AM 3/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I have mixed feelings about this.  Since he won't eat meat otherwise, I may<BR>
>have to learn some new cooking skills.<BR>
<BR>
Many cultures around the world eat insects. Hell, I ate them while in the<BR>
Army doing survival training. It's always amazing that people who willingly<BR>
eat sausages blanche at the thought of popping a beetle down the hatch.<BR>
<BR>
Now, take the Hivers.. they eat their own children! Gas them! Think of them<BR>
as *vermin*!!<BR>
<BR>
I always wanted to do a race that carried its young around like a Wolf<BR>
Spider does.. Making a deal with a BEM with dozens of creepy young all over<BR>
it.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:00:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
At 07:22 AM 3/21/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm not sure.While I made the mistake to give away the<BR>
>AM as a gift,I still have the Gurps write-up,where<BR>
>they have a vulnerability to grief,making them<BR>
>disturbed by death or injured horses.However,how<BR>
>suicidal can this get?<BR>
>They're clearly no animals,and don't behave like those.<BR>
<BR>
No, but they are victims of evolution as we are. For them, the herd is<BR>
everything. Individuals do not count. They have a hard time even dealing<BR>
with the concept of individuals.<BR>
<BR>
If that K'Kree merchant tells you "I will be there at 1800", expect him.<BR>
And his wives. And bodyguards. And servants. And their wives. And children.<BR>
<BR>
John, you keep using words like "horses." These are not horses, these are<BR>
K'Kree. Along with the evolutionary imperitives, you also have a few<BR>
thousand years of cultural tradition. Warriors won't think of themselves as<BR>
being "part of a team", they are an extention of the Steppelord's clan. <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:31:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> The key words here are 'modern mail armor'. Such fine, strong mesh was<BR>
> quite unattainable given the technology available to smiths in the eras<BR>
> when chain mail was prevalent.<BR>
<BR>
True, but even medieval mail armor had higher construction standards than SCA<BR>
mail.<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, this form of mail is designed to defend against sharp, cutting<BR>
> instruments (butcher knives and sharks teeth) I'd like to see how it<BR>
> holds up against a good whack with a battle axe or broadsword..<BR>
<BR>
Probably do ok, though that depends on how heavy the mail is.  Some modern<BR>
mail is bulletproof.  Modern steel is really too tough to chop through very<BR>
well with melee weapons.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:33:30 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
There's a section in the Rebellion Sourcebook that goes into why X-boats are<BR>
Jump-4 (forgive me if I don't quote it verbatim - I don't have it with me):<BR>
<BR>
The official reason for not upgrading to a jump-6 network is cost.  There<BR>
are thousands of Jump-4 X-boats out there and upgrading all of them would be<BR>
an enormous undertaking, not to mention the maintenance and fueling changes<BR>
that would have to be made to support a Jump-6 fleet.  <BR>
The actual reason is control of information - the naval couriers and<BR>
Imperialines TJ network can outrun the x-boats and get information to the<BR>
rulers that need it before it reaches the masses.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: James W. Lindsay [mailto:jlindsay@home.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:16 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:05:31 +0100 (MET), Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> >On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:30:35 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>Given the requirements for how X-boats work, there's no obvious reason<BR>
to<BR>
> >>have them be J-4 -- depending on your design sequence, J-5 or J-6 is<BR>
perfectly<BR>
> >>possible in a 100tD ship.  Given that, why are X-boat routes J-4 (or<BR>
worse)?<BR>
> > <BR>
> >Well, one reason against greater jump distances would have to do with how<BR>
> >the information the network carries would be transferred to neighbouring<BR>
> >star systems.  If every X-boat jump route was 6 parsecs, you'd have fewer<BR>
> >stopovers to upload info to the X-boats.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why should it be either/or? Use Jump-6 on the main spokes to connect<BR>
sector<BR>
> capitals and lesser jumps for network crossconnections and extensions. Get<BR>
> the best of both worlds. <BR>
>   <BR>
> >>Does it seem reasonable that the X-boat routes were established back<BR>
when the<BR>
> >>imperial tech level was 13 or less, and just never changed?<BR>
> > <BR>
> >Hmmm... X-boat routes were canonically established around 624.  I don't<BR>
> >know what the Imperium's tech level was in 624, but I can guess :)<BR>
>  <BR>
> I think Anthony was asking if it was plausible that the network hadn't<BR>
been<BR>
> modernized as the TL of the Imperium increased. After all, it's been<BR>
nearly<BR>
> 500 years.<BR>
> <BR>
> And to answer that question: I wouldn't say it was plausible, but IMO it<BR>
is<BR>
> not _too_ implausible. There must be some very rich, entrenched,<BR>
> manufacturers of standard Jump-4 X-boats. After 500 years the profit<BR>
margin <BR>
> could be huge (contracts written when the boats were cutting-edge<BR>
technology<BR>
> and index-regulated ever since while the boats became cheaper and cheaper<BR>
to<BR>
> build). Switching to Jump-6 boats might cause them to lose their<BR>
comfortable<BR>
> cash cow. So, billions spent lobbying the Emperor for sticking to the<BR>
tried<BR>
> and true...<BR>
<BR>
One likely answer to this thread can be found in the MT Imperial<BR>
Encyclopedia on page 49.  Summarizing:<BR>
<BR>
"Knowing vital facts before they become general knowledge is essential to a<BR>
well-run bureaucracy."<BR>
<BR>
IOW, civvies get to use the Jump-4 X-boat routes to know what's going on,<BR>
while the higher-ups use jump-6 couriers.  Information is power.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Three out of five people aren't the other two.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:40:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-boat routes are J-4<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, one reason against greater jump distances would have to do with how<BR>
> the information the network carries would be transferred to neighbouring<BR>
> star systems.  If every X-boat jump route was 6 parsecs, you'd have fewer<BR>
> stopovers to upload info to the X-boats.<BR>
<BR>
This is why you have two classes of X-boat: the J-6 main couriers, and lower<BR>
jump (say, old J-4 Xboats) ships which transfer data to the main relay <BR>
stations.  You need that anyway.<BR>
<BR>
> Finally, the purpose of the X-boat route isn't to get info from point-A to<BR>
> point-B as *fast* as possible; it's purpose is to distribute news around<BR>
> the Imperial populace as *efficiently* as possible.<BR>
<BR>
And 'fast' and 'efficient' are different exactly how?  When dealing with <BR>
information, there really isn't any reason to go slower.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:42:56 -0500<BR>
From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vs: Parahumans..and Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
That quote is from Glengarry Glen Ross, although I don't know if I'm the<BR>
first to recognize it, as I haven't finished going through the list yet :-)<BR>
><BR>
> "Hey! Get away from the coffeepot.  Coffee is for closers.  Are<BR>
> you a closer?  Remember your ABC's: Always Be Closing.  A<BR>
> Always.  B Be.  C Closing.  Always Be Closing.  Are you a<BR>
> closer?"  (Points for the first to recognize the movie from<BR>
> which this is a slightly mangled quotation.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:52:41 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
In GURPS Traveller terms, K'Kree have a disadvantage of "Vulnerability to<BR>
Grief".  K'kree psychology, as described there, does see every member of<BR>
their herd as important.  Every herd master loves all his underlings, and<BR>
seeing one dead would have a series effect on him.  That's why K'kree combat<BR>
armor includes auto-injectors with drugs that will allow a K'kree to delay<BR>
the onset of grief.  If they see an injured or dead K'kree placed as bait<BR>
for a trap, the injectors would kick in and they would still be able to<BR>
behave rationally about it (at least, as rationally as K'kree get), until<BR>
they get back to a secure location, when they would go into deep grief over<BR>
it.<BR>
In GURPS terms, a K'kree forced into a claustrophobic situation would make a<BR>
Fright Check (at a hefty disadvantage for their racial claustrophobia).  The<BR>
probable results are that the K'kree invovled would become combat<BR>
ineffective.  Hence the tendency of K'kree to not go into jungles or urban<BR>
fighting situations - they are well aware of their weaknesses.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:01 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 07:22 AM 3/21/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm not sure.While I made the mistake to give away the<BR>
>AM as a gift,I still have the Gurps write-up,where<BR>
>they have a vulnerability to grief,making them<BR>
>disturbed by death or injured horses.However,how<BR>
>suicidal can this get?<BR>
>They're clearly no animals,and don't behave like those.<BR>
<BR>
No, but they are victims of evolution as we are. For them, the herd is<BR>
everything. Individuals do not count. They have a hard time even dealing<BR>
with the concept of individuals.<BR>
<BR>
If that K'Kree merchant tells you "I will be there at 1800", expect him.<BR>
And his wives. And bodyguards. And servants. And their wives. And children.<BR>
<BR>
John, you keep using words like "horses." These are not horses, these are<BR>
K'Kree. Along with the evolutionary imperitives, you also have a few<BR>
thousand years of cultural tradition. Warriors won't think of themselves as<BR>
being "part of a team", they are an extention of the Steppelord's clan. <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:42:10 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
<BR>
That'd be the Fairchild-Republic A-10 there Frankie, not the Austin-Healy :)<BR>
The F-R A-10 is slightly better armed, seein's how it was built around it's<BR>
30mm gun.  Go Big or Go Home :D<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, I've only seen a couple of episodes of Hitchhikers, and never<BR>
read the books.  I'll have to remedy that one of these days....<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Frank G.<BR>
> Pitt<BR>
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:28 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Urban warfare & bullets<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > On Behalf Of Jesse DeGraff<BR>
> > Just goes to show you that the best thing for urban warfare is an A-10<BR>
><BR>
> The Austin-Healey A-10, while being constructed of finest British<BR>
> steel, and<BR>
> thus providing more armour than modern cars, does not provide good<BR>
> acceleration or top-speed, and can only carry three full armed<BR>
> troops and a<BR>
> driver. Also, it's firing ports are too wide, allowing return<BR>
> fire to easily<BR>
> penetrate the vehicle.<BR>
><BR>
> > ObTrav:<BR>
> > Over loudspeakers:  "If you do not cease, desist, and throw down<BR>
> > your arms, we are authorized to launch FS A-110 grav gunships,<BR>
> > and God help you all."<BR>
><BR>
> Why does this remind me of Marvin dealing with the Frogstar fighters in<BR>
> Hitchhikers ?<BR>
><BR>
> "Such a depressingly stupid machine"<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2145<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2146<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Infomation please.<BR>
Re: C & I<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Plea for help!!<BR>
Tide-locked worlds<BR>
re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Great Wine Heist of 1092 <BR>
RE: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
RE: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
RE: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:58:20 -0500<BR>
From: "Charlie" <milllk@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Infomation please.<BR>
<BR>
Hi Folks<BR>
 I am in search of a spreadsheet for MS Office. I need one for MT so I can<BR>
work up some power armor. The players want those Star Ship Trooper (novel)<BR>
type suits and I am going to give them what they want.<G><BR>
 Any insights anyone has with this type of armor design or game play would<BR>
be real good too.<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Charlie Moore<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:56:38 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: C & I<BR>
<BR>
At 20:11 20.03.00 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-20 17:10:00 EST, you write:<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
>Loren (who is continually amazed how much discussion a couple of sentences <BR>
>can genetrate) Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
Ha! Wait until we find out where Strephon actually _was_ on 132-1116!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:06:03 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 15:22 21.03.00 +1000, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Oh, and BTW, the two women could just be friends, y'know?! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Oohh, that'd be _boring_! Every Grand Princess can have a close friend!<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, what you propose is more probable... <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:00:54 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
At 13:14 20.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>My bet is it's what fit easily on a computer screen, with a "key" next<BR>
>to it or under it. And yes, this means that Vilani computer screens are<BR>
>"portrait mode" rather than "landscape mode".<BR>
><BR>
>Or it could just be convenient for a pocket sized reference guide. <BR>
<BR>
A TL 9 Palm Pilot or something like that? Sounds fairly reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, a series of near future stories about Belters that Pournelle and<BR>
>Sheffield(?) are working on make the point that in emergencies, an<BR>
>actual printed manual is far better than a computerized reference,<BR>
>simply because it's more *rugged*. Anything that'll destroy the book<BR>
>will have killed *you*. Temp, radiation, physical shock, they'll all<BR>
>clobber electronics before they clobber humans. But printed words and<BR>
>diagrams will survive.<BR>
<BR>
Not to forget that paper is *tradition*!<BR>
<BR>
SCNR<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:55:08 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
<BR>
At 20:11 20.03.00 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><<  I would like to know both in-universe explanations and<BR>
> the True Story (which Loren can tell u?) of what took place back in the<BR>
> 70's at GDW. >><BR>
><BR>
>Well, it all goes back to the Roman two-horse chariot . . .<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
>8x10 parsecs = 8x10 hexes. Most common hexagonal grid available in the days <BR>
>before cheap computer printers and graphics programs was the mass printed <BR>
>hexgrid we had run off to draw game maps on. These were sized to comfortably <BR>
>hold a 1/2" counter, and were thus slightly larger than 1/2" but smaller<BR>
than <BR>
>3/4". 8 such hexes by 10 such hexes formed the best fit to a digest-sized <BR>
>(i.e., LBB-sized) page (allowing a little for a margin). QED.<BR>
<BR>
So that is what makes the decisions: Money, Money, Money....<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:07:05 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:13 20.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As a former sniper, I must point out that one bullet can change history.<BR>
<BR>
Well, that is true for any terrorist group in the 3I. What a lesbian<BR>
empress would perhaps fo is add another one of these. Thatis not good,<BR>
perhaps avoidable, but it won't changee the security requirements for the<BR>
Empress. (Since I assume they are already at top level.)<BR>
<BR>
>>Thanks, I know more than enough about people like those, I think.<BR>
>><BR>
>>They have got nothing to do with SFf, BTW. Rather with Dark Fantasy.<BR>
><BR>
>no, but they are an example of my point. Fred Phelps spends thousands of<BR>
>dollars each year flying all over the country to picket. That sort of<BR>
>fanaticism will still be with us in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds reasonable. Fortunately for people like the man you mentioned (who<BR>
is unknown to me as a non-U.S citizen), the U.S. is a democratic state. The<BR>
Third Imperium is not. Which is to say, the Empress would have other tools<BR>
at hand (though these aren't what I would want a ruler to use...)<BR>
<BR>
I do not deny that those people are a problem in Real Life. It's just, IMTU<BR>
they are as dangerous as the right wing of the Solomani Movement (that is,<BR>
not the "we Solomani have the right to rule the galaxy", but the _real_<BR>
right wing.)<BR>
<BR>
>>But the latter is due to the fact that Core is, well somewhat closer to<BR>
>>capital than Ilelish. Of course, nominally this would be the way, but who<BR>
>>would hold the _power_ in Ilelish in the next generation? <BR>
><BR>
>The British crown used to claim places that were months away. No reason why<BR>
>the Emperor Strephon II can't exercise similar authority.<BR>
><BR>
>Now that I think about it, a more likely scenario is that either Iphengia<BR>
>or Isis pulls an Edward and Mrs. Simpson, abdicating her position.<BR>
<BR>
I must addmit I don't understand the last half of the sentence. Wo is Mr.<BR>
Simpson? (guess: British history?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:08:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
At 21:10 -0500 20/3/00, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
>Interesting canon issue here - if this be canon then in-system jumps<BR>
>use less fuel than interstellar jumps. This the later be canon then<BR>
>this passage (and the whole scenario as well).<BR>
<BR>
Err - is it really an issue? If J1 takes 10% disp vol, and J3 30% etc <BR>
then you would expect J0 to take less? ie half a parsec takes 5% <BR>
etc...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:10:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Famille Threat was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2125<BR>
<BR>
At 0:20 -0500 21/3/00, "Michael Peters" <travelleri@home.com> wrote:<BR>
> > >Note to involved persons : unless you guys shut the hell up and cease the<BR>
> > >flamewar, Famile Spofulam is going to respond with<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> > >Note that none of these exist. Yet.<BR>
> > Glug, Glug, Glug. <Smell of Petrol/Gas><BR>
> > Click, click, hiss. <Sound of a Zippo><BR>
> > Whumph! <charring roasting meat smell><BR>
> >> <FLAME ON><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Consider this a continuation of the flame war. I want more toys from<BR>
> > the High Energy Weapons Division...<BR>
>Now this is one Flame War I can fully support! Dom, let me know what we<BR>
>are fighting over and we'll start...<BR>
<BR>
Okay how about which is better? Gridlore Technologies, X-Tek or <BR>
Famille Spofulam?<BR>
<BR>
>"Honey have you seen my spare cape? Yeah, Hengie's back AND he's brought<BR>
>that youngester Ditzie with him... I know, we all thought he'd retired as<BR>
>well...No I am not about to save the universe from them, they're just too<BR>
>scarey"   attributed to Superman, speaking to Lois just before departing to<BR>
>the Fortress of Solitude.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ROFLOL!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:23:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
<BR>
>Building to building fighting in Beirut and other places with <BR>
>intense infantry combat in a modern urban setting suggested<BR>
>that successful troops seize the high ground and go up to the <BR>
>tops of skyscrapers.  Hotels and such places.  They then fire <BR>
>*down* at pretty much any part of the street that inspires <BR>
>them, with a merry lack of discrimination.  The notion has been<BR>
<BR>
>advanced that vertical envelopment operations by helicopter be <BR>
>planned to immediately seize the tops of buildings with the <BR>
>most commanding views,and only secondary priority be placed on <BR>
>seizing ground level.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
situation in a Striker game?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:31:12 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> So that is what makes the decisions: Money, Money, Money....<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium IS a mercantilist empire, afer all...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:32:15 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Many cultures around the world eat insects. Hell, I ate them while in the<BR>
> Army doing survival training. It's always amazing that people who willingly<BR>
> eat sausages blanche at the thought of popping a beetle down the hatch.<BR>
<BR>
But the sausages so rarely have the legs on the outside ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:35:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 11:12 PM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>> Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you imagine the<BR>
dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an Archduchess and the heir<BR>
to the Iridium Throne?  I can't imagine that humanity will improve to the<BR>
point where everyone would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
>>><BR>
Um, how many thousands of years have they had?  I really would like to think<BR>
that THAT far in the future, much further in the future than anything I've<BR>
ever written was set, people would get over this.  My stories and novels are<BR>
set around 2400 CE, and except on a few Fringe worlds from the Great<BR>
Diaspora, it's no big deal most places.<BR>
<BR>
Not to mention that historically, rulers have been able to get away with<BR>
things the average person would never get away with, so long as they<BR>
produced heirs.  (And science could do this for these two.)  Only in<BR>
situations where there has been a virtual theocracy (Medieval Europe prior<BR>
to the Reformation) have rulers been bound by the same "morals" as ordinary<BR>
people-- and the Popes, who were the ultimate rulers at that time, still did<BR>
whatever they wanted to do-- so it still holds true.<BR>
<BR>
>>!?!  I had to look twice for the poster's name to be sure that it was<BR>
indeed Doug Berry posting this :)<BR>
>><BR>
>As a member of the GLBT community, I'm always sensitive to such concerns.<BR>
><BR>
I understand that, being a member of said community myself.  BUT... I am<BR>
more optimistic, I guess.  We're talking THOUSANDS of years in the future.<BR>
<BR>
>One of the people at GLAAD put it this way: "It's easy to accept gay rights<BR>
in theory. Seeing two bearded men kissing next door is harder."<BR>
><BR>
Only because most people don't see it.  I am bisexual myself and the first<BR>
time I went into an environment where this was acceptable it freaked me<BR>
out... it doesn't bother me at all any more unless I think they are cute,<BR>
and that's a different kind of "bothered" entirely.<BR>
<BR>
I really think that eventually, it won't be a problem.  Perhaps not in our<BR>
lifetimes, but someday...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect<BR>
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>
impractical.  It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:26:18 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 9:58 -0500 21/3/00,  "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
>At 06:25 PM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
> >Any chance we'll see these published in some form? :)<BR>
>Who knows? If we get enough good entries, we might be able to nudge Dom and<BR>
>Andy.<BR>
>What would be nice is if we could do a "pilot's guide to the *blank*<BR>
>subsector." book.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds interesting? Who'd publish something like that? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:27:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Plea for help!!<BR>
<BR>
At 9:58 -0500 21/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> >Is there some kind TMLer out there who could be so good as to either point<BR>
> >out where I can locate a copy of Bruce Macintosh's MCS, or be so good as to<BR>
> >send me a copy off list?  I am doing some military ship-design related<BR>
> >projects, and a ship design is meaningless without a system to evaluate it,<BR>
><BR>
>apointer to a site would be good, as my copy vanished as well.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think it's on a site yet.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:42:07 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
I've started work on SM 3035 Prilissa/Trin's Veil (B985588-6).<BR>
Canonically it is an agricultural world with earthlike fauna, but<BR>
according to the Imperial Encyclopedia and Regency Sourcebook its<BR>
primary star is K9V. If I place it close enough to reconcile these it<BR>
has to be tide-locked. My options:<BR>
<BR>
1. Change the star type. I don't want to do this unless I have to.<BR>
<BR>
2. Give it resonant tide-locking. With the rotation period being 2/3rds<BR>
the orbital period the local day will be almost 15 Earth days. This is<BR>
long enough that nowhere will be permanently habitable and short enough<BR>
that the cereal production mentioned in BtC is unlikely at best. With<BR>
TL6 tech, mobile farms moving around the planet at 25mph seem unlikely<BR>
too. Unless I can have resonant tide-locking with smaller fractions this<BR>
doesn't seem like a good option.<BR>
<BR>
3. Make the world properly tide-locked. Using First In rules this gives<BR>
it a comfortable twilight region between the dark and bright faces, with<BR>
well over half the planet's surface habitable (which seems a little<BR>
generous, but I'm not complaining). This currently looks like the best<BR>
option.<BR>
<BR>
Note: There are no gas giants in the system, so I can't use the "moon<BR>
receiving extra heat from the GG" ploy.<BR>
<BR>
Are there any major problems with option 3 that I haven't spotted? If<BR>
not, any clues on climatic conditions, and what will happen to the<BR>
oceans? I imagine there could be a constant high-altitude darkward wind<BR>
combined with a low-altitude brightward wind driven by the heating of<BR>
the air on the bright face. Might this happen, and what effect would it<BR>
have on precipitation patterns? What happens in the middle altitudes?<BR>
<BR>
All thoughts welcome.<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:49:20 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
>No. The individual is expendable, the Herd is paramount. Risking<BR>
>the Herd to save an individual is not a motivation. Look at it<BR>
>this way: watch some documentary on the veldt in Africa. Does<BR>
>the herd of wildebeest turn and charge the lions when they take<BR>
>a straggler? No. Their only perceived safety is _as a group_. A<BR>
>lone K'Kree (injured or not!) is already dead to them.<BR>
<BR>
	I think that you are perhaps missing the trees by looking at<BR>
	the forest, to twist an old expression.  The group is not<BR>
	what wildebeasts try to keep safe.  Rather, they are all<BR>
	selfishly trying to escape from the lions.  Natural<BR>
	selection has favoured the individuals that stay near other<BR>
	individuals, probably because it makes it more likely that<BR>
	one of your buddies gets eaten rather than you.  If K'Kree<BR>
	had similar patterns of behaviour, I would expect them to<BR>
	run away from any opponent that presents a significant risk,<BR>
	unless flight is impossible or young must be protected.<BR>
	Even in the latter case, an adult will not normally<BR>
	sacrifice itself as this would probably mean the demise of<BR>
	its young and the loss of any future chance of reproduction.<BR>
<BR>
	That being said, K'Kree have come a long way from their ancestors.<BR>
	With sentience and complex communication, social organizations<BR>
	that reward working together might form, allowing K'Kree herds to<BR>
	turn on hapless predators.  It is the social structure at this<BR>
	stage (perhaps equivelent to hominid hunter-gatherer communities<BR>
	in terms of their relationship to modern humans) that might be <BR>
	most illuminating in the description of K'Kree psychology.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:54:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Great Wine Heist of 1092 <BR>
<BR>
>The crime of the century was the Great Wine Heist in 1092 when <BR>
>a group of adventurers stole three entire cases of the stuff <BR>
>that was aboard an Imperial scout cruiser in the AHL class.  <BR>
>The eventual fate of the fourth case of Tokaj that was being <BR>
>carried is not given.  The criminals' entire plan seems to have<BR>
<BR>
>been to stowaway inside crates in the cargo hold, break out <BR>
>while the cruiser was still in Terran orbit, seize the wine, <BR>
>make their way by stealth to the pinnace deck and steal a <BR>
>pinnace for their getaway after overpowering any opposition <BR>
>there.  The huge density of orbital traffic around Terra <BR>
>prevented the cruiser from getting any shots at the fleeing <BR>
>pinnace.  No additional detail is provided about the getaway <BR>
>after that.  I can't help but wonder what sort of traffic <BR>
>control system was in use that permitted such an anonymous <BR>
>getaway so easily.  <BR>
<BR>
This is definitely one of the comedic scenarios in Traveller. <BR>
It's quite difficult to avoid giggle fits while playing it,<BR>
although that could have something to do with the environment<BR>
(college daze).  <BR>
<BR>
As a practical matter, I've assumed that the getaway plans were<BR>
(1) to dock with another ship and jump immediately, even if<BR>
still within Terra's gravity well or (2) to fake a crash on<BR>
Terra and hide the wine until things cooled down a little. <BR>
Option (3), holding the wine hostage, has never looked<BR>
appealing.<BR>
<BR>
The fate of the fourth case, every time I've played it, is<BR>
destruction -- the first time I played, a Marine with a plasma<BR>
or fusion gun shot into an elevator full of thieves and wine. <BR>
The only wine not destroyed was in the other elevator, but that<BR>
Marine definitely got demoted.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:55:55 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
That has to be part of it.  The K'kree are more intelligent than any<BR>
wilderbeasts, and with that greater intelligence they have gained the<BR>
ability to form stronger emotional bonds.  True, the herd should still be<BR>
paramount in their minds, but with intelligence they also have stronger<BR>
bonds to individuals and the posibility of self sacrifice.  A wounded K'kree<BR>
set out as "bait" might do what he can to kill himself - saving the herd<BR>
from the trap set for them.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson [mailto:ian@vax2.concordia.ca]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 11:49 AM<BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
Subject: re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
>No. The individual is expendable, the Herd is paramount. Risking<BR>
>the Herd to save an individual is not a motivation. Look at it<BR>
>this way: watch some documentary on the veldt in Africa. Does<BR>
>the herd of wildebeest turn and charge the lions when they take<BR>
>a straggler? No. Their only perceived safety is _as a group_. A<BR>
>lone K'Kree (injured or not!) is already dead to them.<BR>
<BR>
	I think that you are perhaps missing the trees by looking at<BR>
	the forest, to twist an old expression.  The group is not<BR>
	what wildebeasts try to keep safe.  Rather, they are all<BR>
	selfishly trying to escape from the lions.  Natural<BR>
	selection has favoured the individuals that stay near other<BR>
	individuals, probably because it makes it more likely that<BR>
	one of your buddies gets eaten rather than you.  If K'Kree<BR>
	had similar patterns of behaviour, I would expect them to<BR>
	run away from any opponent that presents a significant risk,<BR>
	unless flight is impossible or young must be protected.<BR>
	Even in the latter case, an adult will not normally<BR>
	sacrifice itself as this would probably mean the demise of<BR>
	its young and the loss of any future chance of reproduction.<BR>
<BR>
	That being said, K'Kree have come a long way from their ancestors.<BR>
	With sentience and complex communication, social organizations<BR>
	that reward working together might form, allowing K'Kree herds to<BR>
	turn on hapless predators.  It is the social structure at this<BR>
	stage (perhaps equivelent to hominid hunter-gatherer communities<BR>
	in terms of their relationship to modern humans) that might be <BR>
	most illuminating in the description of K'Kree psychology.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:57:05 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Les Howie writes:<BR>
>On the topic of odd foods.<BR>
>My 7 year old went with his class to the museum today, where they got to<BR>
>sample some sort of fired insect - millipede I think.  He liked it, said it<BR>
>tasted like popcorn.<BR>
<BR>
	Aaaak!<BR>
<BR>
	<takes deep breath><BR>
<BR>
	Please excuse my biological nit-picking, but a millipede is as much<BR>
	an insect as a cod is a mammal.  Insects and millipedes are both<BR>
	arthropods, however.<BR>
<BR>
	:)<BR>
<BR>
>I have mixed feelings about this.  Since he won't eat meat otherwise, I may<BR>
>have to learn some new cooking skills.<BR>
<BR>
	Do you eat lobster?  Not an insect either, but another arthropod.<BR>
<BR>
	:-x<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:01:26 -0600<BR>
From: "Derek Dees" <djdees@mm.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
John,<BR>
<BR>
You could place the farms underground, but at TL6, I don't think you could<BR>
get enough light and such down to get crops to do well. The other though<BR>
would be what is the hydrography look like? Could they be ocean farms<BR>
travelling in swift currents?<BR>
<BR>
Derek<BR>
djdees@mm.com<BR>
http://www.mm.com/user/djdees<BR>
<BR>
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who<BR>
doesn't get it.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of John Wood<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 12:42 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I've started work on SM 3035 Prilissa/Trin's Veil (B985588-6).<BR>
> Canonically it is an agricultural world with earthlike fauna, but<BR>
> according to the Imperial Encyclopedia and Regency Sourcebook its<BR>
> primary star is K9V. If I place it close enough to reconcile these it<BR>
> has to be tide-locked. My options:<BR>
><BR>
> 1. Change the star type. I don't want to do this unless I have to.<BR>
><BR>
> 2. Give it resonant tide-locking. With the rotation period being 2/3rds<BR>
> the orbital period the local day will be almost 15 Earth days. This is<BR>
> long enough that nowhere will be permanently habitable and short enough<BR>
> that the cereal production mentioned in BtC is unlikely at best. With<BR>
> TL6 tech, mobile farms moving around the planet at 25mph seem unlikely<BR>
> too. Unless I can have resonant tide-locking with smaller fractions this<BR>
> doesn't seem like a good option.<BR>
><BR>
> 3. Make the world properly tide-locked. Using First In rules this gives<BR>
> it a comfortable twilight region between the dark and bright faces, with<BR>
> well over half the planet's surface habitable (which seems a little<BR>
> generous, but I'm not complaining). This currently looks like the best<BR>
> option.<BR>
><BR>
> Note: There are no gas giants in the system, so I can't use the "moon<BR>
> receiving extra heat from the GG" ploy.<BR>
><BR>
> Are there any major problems with option 3 that I haven't spotted? If<BR>
> not, any clues on climatic conditions, and what will happen to the<BR>
> oceans? I imagine there could be a constant high-altitude darkward wind<BR>
> combined with a low-altitude brightward wind driven by the heating of<BR>
> the air on the bright face. Might this happen, and what effect would it<BR>
> have on precipitation patterns? What happens in the middle altitudes?<BR>
><BR>
> All thoughts welcome.<BR>
><BR>
> John<BR>
><BR>
> John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
> IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
> Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:58:18 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
It's actual wine.  LKW did an editorial on it in the GT JTAS just a couple<BR>
weeks ago.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 5:56 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         Azhanti High Lightning, p. 36 details that "Although the practice<BR>
of<BR>
> importing Terran wine declined, of necessity, during the height of the<BR>
> Solomani independence movement, Strephon (the current Emperor) has a taste<BR>
> for the white wines of Terra, particularly Tokaj Eszencia, and he has<BR>
> reinstituted regular wine runs.  Produced exclusive in the small<BR>
> Tokaj-Hegyalja district on the northern slopes of the Carpathian mountains<BR>
> [sic], Tokaj is primarily a product of the outstanding but rare Furmint<BR>
> grape."  <BR>
<BR>
Riiight. "Tokaj" is almost certainly pronounced "toe-kay". And I seem<BR>
to recall "Tokay" being a favorite of winos, because it was *cheap* and<BR>
moderately strong. Anybody have any idea what "Eszencia" and "Hegyalja"<BR>
mean? I smell an in-joke...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2146<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2147</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2147<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
RE: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
RE: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Roswell<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Vs: Droyne Closers<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
NNTP Headers of the Third Imperium<BR>
RE: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:02:30 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith writes:<BR>
>>I can easily believe that some H2 will seep through the vacc suit, <BR>
>>but at TL's where fuel bladders can carry H2 in a starship hold, <BR>
>>I would expect the amount of H2 to be small and easily managed by <BR>
>>standard life support systems<BR>
>Ship Operator's Manual talks about double-walled tanks and catalysts<BR>
>to trap the seeping hydrogen. Collapsible tanks - which are probably<BR>
>more like rigid-walled modules than big bags - should have similar<BR>
>systems.<BR>
<BR>
	I go with the rigid modules (and include 25% waste space), but<BR>
	the point that I was making is that H2 leakage should be<BR>
	relatively slow.  Couldn't it be removed by the vacc suit's<BR>
	life support system?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:15:22 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
Mrs Simpson was an American divorcee who won the heart of Edward, Prince of<BR>
Wales (later Edward VIII). Due to Constitutional reasons (yes, we do have<BR>
one, though it is not codified into a single document...) he abdicated so<BR>
that he could marry her, leaving the throne to his brother George VI, father<BR>
of the present Queen.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 21 March 2000 18:13<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 10:13 20.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>As a former sniper, I must point out that one bullet can change history.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, that is true for any terrorist group in the 3I. What a lesbian<BR>
>empress would perhaps fo is add another one of these. Thatis not good,<BR>
>perhaps avoidable, but it won't changee the security requirements for the<BR>
>Empress. (Since I assume they are already at top level.)<BR>
><BR>
>>>Thanks, I know more than enough about people like those, I think.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>They have got nothing to do with SFf, BTW. Rather with Dark Fantasy.<BR>
>><BR>
>>no, but they are an example of my point. Fred Phelps spends thousands of<BR>
>>dollars each year flying all over the country to picket. That sort of<BR>
>>fanaticism will still be with us in the 3I.<BR>
><BR>
>Sounds reasonable. Fortunately for people like the man you mentioned (who<BR>
>is unknown to me as a non-U.S citizen), the U.S. is a democratic state. The<BR>
>Third Imperium is not. Which is to say, the Empress would have other tools<BR>
>at hand (though these aren't what I would want a ruler to use...)<BR>
><BR>
>I do not deny that those people are a problem in Real Life. It's just, IMTU<BR>
>they are as dangerous as the right wing of the Solomani Movement (that is,<BR>
>not the "we Solomani have the right to rule the galaxy", but the _real_<BR>
>right wing.)<BR>
><BR>
>>>But the latter is due to the fact that Core is, well somewhat closer to<BR>
>>>capital than Ilelish. Of course, nominally this would be the way, but who<BR>
>>>would hold the _power_ in Ilelish in the next generation?<BR>
>><BR>
>>The British crown used to claim places that were months away. No reason<BR>
why<BR>
>>the Emperor Strephon II can't exercise similar authority.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Now that I think about it, a more likely scenario is that either Iphengia<BR>
>>or Isis pulls an Edward and Mrs. Simpson, abdicating her position.<BR>
><BR>
>I must addmit I don't understand the last half of the sentence. Wo is Mr.<BR>
>Simpson? (guess: British history?)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
>  ingo heinscher ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
>... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:31:47 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/21/00 11:00:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
>  <BR>
>  At 9:58 -0500 21/3/00,  "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> <BR>
> wrote:<BR>
>  >At 06:25 PM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>  > >Any chance we'll see these published in some form? :)<BR>
>  >Who knows? If we get enough good entries, we might be able to nudge Dom <BR>
and<BR>
>  >Andy.<BR>
>  >What would be nice is if we could do a "pilot's guide to the *blank*<BR>
>  >subsector." book.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Sounds interesting? Who'd publish something like that? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
As this has been brought up before, I thought I'd mention the other feature <BR>
currently missing from this one. I.E. links (as in webring) to go from world <BR>
to world.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:41:24 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
> Mrs Simpson was an American divorcee who won the heart of<BR>
> Edward, Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII). Due to<BR>
> Constitutional reasons (yes, we do have one, though it is not<BR>
> codified into a single document...)<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
<OT rant><BR>
    Sorry to go OT here but the "British Constitution" is nothing<BR>
    more than a conveinent political fiction: it does  not  exist<BR>
    in reality.  Kind of "the King's new clothes" sort of  thing.<BR>
    I refuse  to  accept  the  existance  of  something  that  is<BR>
    whatever the leading politicans of the day say it is at  that<BR>
    time, which is subject to change at a moment's  notice.  That<BR>
    is *not* a constitution in the normally accepted sense of the<BR>
    word, and misses the point of a constitution.<BR>
</OT rant><BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:44:18 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/21/00 1:52:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
John@elvw.demon.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Are there any major problems with option 3 that I haven't spotted? If<BR>
>  not, any clues on climatic conditions, and what will happen to the<BR>
>  oceans? I imagine there could be a constant high-altitude darkward wind<BR>
>  combined with a low-altitude brightward wind driven by the heating of<BR>
>  the air on the bright face. Might this happen, and what effect would it<BR>
>  have on precipitation patterns? What happens in the middle altitudes?<BR>
<BR>
If I remember my meteorology right, you would indeed have a permanent<BR>
air-circulation pattern as you describe.  The air would come from the dark<BR>
face carrying moisture from the twilight-zone seas, and drop that moisture<BR>
in the temperate zone as it rises.  Naturally the sunward point and regions<BR>
around it would probably be high, hot and arid.<BR>
<BR>
And yes, you're correct that the _First In_ rules are probably a bit too<BR>
generous with respect to truly tide-locked worlds.  This was deliberate.<BR>
Given the canonical predominance of red dwarf stars, I knew an awful<BR>
lot of worlds in the Third Imperium setting would be tide-locked. . .<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:49:00 -0600<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Gentles,<BR>
<BR>
Can one of you kind souls help this person out? AR 3 goes to press on the<BR>
31st, and I can't tke the time out to put a list like this together right<BR>
now. A lot of this is going to depend on the individual refs' approach to<BR>
their campaigns . . .<BR>
<BR>
>From: calvin ryden <fenix@famvid.com><BR>
>please list UT1 - 2 technology available in<BR>
>traveller.  thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager<BR>
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>
          http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     LKW@IO.COM<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:54:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> The official reason for not upgrading to a jump-6 network is cost.  There<BR>
> are thousands of Jump-4 X-boats out there and upgrading all of them would<BR>
> be an enormous undertaking, not to mention the maintenance and fueling<BR>
> changes that would have to be made to support a Jump-6 fleet.  <BR>
> The actual reason is control of information - the naval couriers and<BR>
> Imperialines TJ network can outrun the x-boats and get information to the<BR>
> rulers that need it before it reaches the masses.<BR>
<BR>
The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an edge)<BR>
and it just isn't that expensive.  If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; have every route send<BR>
data daily (guaranteeing maximum 24 hour turnover at any given waystation)<BR>
and every boat jumping every 8 days.  This requires a total of 24 gigacredits<BR>
in x-boats per sector.  Call it 2 gigacredits per year (8% of costs in <BR>
maintenance; yes, that's rather high).  That's a corporation equivalent in <BR>
size to a modern FedEx or something similar.  Given the population of the imperium, the only question is _who_ will do it, not whether it will be<BR>
done.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:01:47 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure the megacorps take advantage of Jump-6 couriers as well to get<BR>
market information, just as the Imperial government does.  By "Official<BR>
reason" I meant the Imperium's official reason, not Traveller's official<BR>
reason.  With the Imperium not being a democracy, the nobles don't really<BR>
need to explain their actions with logic, and they are unlikely to give up<BR>
the ability to stay ahead of the populace on current events - so the X-boat<BR>
network will probably stay Jump 4 for the forseeable future.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 12:54 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> The official reason for not upgrading to a jump-6 network is cost.  There<BR>
> are thousands of Jump-4 X-boats out there and upgrading all of them would<BR>
> be an enormous undertaking, not to mention the maintenance and fueling<BR>
> changes that would have to be made to support a Jump-6 fleet.  <BR>
> The actual reason is control of information - the naval couriers and<BR>
> Imperialines TJ network can outrun the x-boats and get information to the<BR>
> rulers that need it before it reaches the masses.<BR>
<BR>
The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an edge)<BR>
and it just isn't that expensive.  If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; have every route send<BR>
data daily (guaranteeing maximum 24 hour turnover at any given waystation)<BR>
and every boat jumping every 8 days.  This requires a total of 24<BR>
gigacredits<BR>
in x-boats per sector.  Call it 2 gigacredits per year (8% of costs in <BR>
maintenance; yes, that's rather high).  That's a corporation equivalent in <BR>
size to a modern FedEx or something similar.  Given the population of the<BR>
imperium, the only question is _who_ will do it, not whether it will be<BR>
done.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:02:41 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Roswell<BR>
<BR>
At 5:17 PM -0800 3/19/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 02:57 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  >Do you think that Drudge would put it on his site?  It sounds strange<BR>
>  >enough.<BR>
><BR>
>Just posted this little missive to alt.conspiracy...<BR>
>***<BR>
>The Shrub's official campaign website:<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.georgewbush.com/<BR>
><BR>
>Is hosted by an Austin based ISP called Illuminati Online. since<BR>
>Daddy is a 33rd degree Mason and member of Skull and Bones, and<BR>
>Dubya seems to have been anointed by GOP insiders to be the<BR>
>presidential candidate before the voters had a chance, could this<BR>
>be a simple coincidence?<BR>
><BR>
>But there's more! Illumniati Online is closely associated with<BR>
>Steve Jackson Games, which was the company raided by the Secret<BR>
>Service back in 1990. Despite the seizure of numerous materials<BR>
>related to hacking, no charges were ever filed. In fact, the USSS<BR>
>had to pay *fines* to the company.<BR>
><BR>
>Was this light treatment given in return for further<BR>
>considerations for the younger Bush family members? Perhaps the<BR>
>minds behind IO are using their own publications, describe by<BR>
>federal agents as "a handbook for computer crime," to somehow rig<BR>
>polls to discourage maverick Republicans from turning out.<BR>
><BR>
>I find this all very interesting...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
But wait, you yourself have business with SJG!  So what is<BR>
your "real" agenda for posting this?  I have found out!<BR>
It turns out all this penguin stuff i*s #rea10l-y woQEWR<BR>
QER (98sdf76  6%^ff0 (*7s6....<BR>
no carrier....<BR>
<BR>
[Sounds of penguin singing doobie doobie doo as in the Bud<BR>
Lite commercial...]<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:16:18 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
[On a lesbian Empress]<BR>
<BR>
While I agree that Terran mores could have changed a lot,<BR>
a hereditary system is going to tend to develop against<BR>
seeing homosexuality as equally acceptable, esp. in those<BR>
who need to produce heirs (or at least against complete<BR>
homosexuality, bi might be OK for lovers on the side).<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:31:44 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
>information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
>the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an <BR>
>edge) and it just isn't that expensive.  If you overlay a sector with a J-6<BR>
>grid you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; <BR>
<BR>
And you've moved how many worlds from "X-Boat Station" status to<BR>
"backwater" status? Get ready for a fight. <BR>
<BR>
Anthony again:<BR>
>have every route send data daily (guaranteeing maximum 24 hour turnover <BR>
> at any given waystation) and every boat jumping every 8 days.  This <BR>
> requires a total of 24 gigacredits in x-boats per sector.  <BR>
<BR>
In some bigger systems, Boats jump out on the hour. But that extra<BR>
"bandwidth" would have to be traffic between two nearby large worlds,<BR>
so probably they pay for themselves.<BR>
<BR>
Anthony again:<BR>
> Given the population of the imperium, the only question is _who_ will do<BR>
> it, not whether it will be done.<BR>
<BR>
It will be done *unless something stops it from happening*.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial interference, Noble intrigues, inter-Megacorp frictions, shortage of <BR>
Jump-6 drive assemblies, take your pick. Something stopped it, either<BR>
rewrite YTU to have it not stopped, or pick an interesting reason why it<BR>
hasn't.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:44:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma writes:<BR>
> I'm sure the megacorps take advantage of Jump-6 couriers as well to get<BR>
> market information, just as the Imperial government does.  By "Official<BR>
> reason" I meant the Imperium's official reason, not Traveller's official<BR>
> reason.  With the Imperium not being a democracy, the nobles don't really<BR>
> need to explain their actions with logic, and they are unlikely to give up<BR>
> the ability to stay ahead of the populace on current events - so the X-boat<BR>
> network will probably stay Jump 4 for the forseeable future.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that 'selling J-6 express mail capabilities' is a reasonable<BR>
business plan for a relatively small corporation.  Wiring the entire imperium<BR>
would only take an investment of around a trillion credits, can reasonably<BR>
pay for itself, and can be done incrementally without too much difficulty.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose direct corporate/imperial interference could block creation of such<BR>
a network, but I generally dislike 'conspiracy' explanations.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:58:58 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Droyne Closers<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:20 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Closers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> As in the folks in Zelazny's "A Night in the Lonesome October"? <BR>
><BR>
Yes.<BR>
 <BR>
> I rather like that whole setup. And it wouldn't be *that* hard to port<BR>
> to Traveller. Just have the Opener's and closers trying to identify the<BR>
> appropriate dates and astronomical configurations on various worlds. <BR>
> <BR>
> Of course, the *first* thing is determining whether or not there *is* a<BR>
> potential "gate" on a world. <BR>
> <BR>
> PCs stumbling into the midst of all this are going to get *really*<BR>
> puzzled! <BR>
> <BR>
Hey, that sounds like a perfect setting for an adventure. Now I just need some excuses to get the pc's involved without giving out the setup thats waiting...<BR>
<BR>
Gotta make something out of this.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:51:18 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 11:12 PM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you <BR>
>>>imagine the dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an <BR>
>>>Archduchess and the heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't <BR>
>>>imagine that humanity will improve to the point where everyone <BR>
>>>would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
><BR>
>>!?!  I had to look twice for the poster's name to be sure that it <BR>
>>was indeed Doug Berry posting this :)<BR>
<BR>
>As a member of the GLBT community, I'm always sensitive to <BR>
>such concerns. One of the people at GLAAD put it this way: "It's <BR>
>easy to accept gay rights in theory. Seeing two bearded men <BR>
>kissing next door is harder."<BR>
<BR>
Sadly true for our own world.  However, I wouldn't bet anything on <BR>
this being the same 3,000 years in the future.  For one thing, the <BR>
fact that artificial wombs and reliable birth control having been <BR>
available for many *thousands* of years would likely change the <BR>
culture to such a point that the assumed link between procreation <BR>
and sex which lies at the heart of at least some objections to non-<BR>
straight sex would be long forgotten on most worlds.  <BR>
<BR>
Also, today, much homophobia is religiously based.  There will be <BR>
many and various different religions in the Imperium.  We might <BR>
best ask what the Vilani attitude towards homosexuality was, <BR>
since that will greatly influence Imperial mores.  Given that there <BR>
have been many cultures on our world where homosexuality, <BR>
transvestitism and similar behaviors have been perfectly acceptable<BR>
I think we cannot assume anything about Imperial attitudes <BR>
towards homosexuality.<BR>
<BR>
I'm reminded of the *wonderful* scene in 4th season Babylon 5 <BR>
when Marcus and Dr. Franklin were traveling to Mars with forged <BR>
papers saying that they were a couple on their honeymoon.  That's <BR>
my vision of the future.   <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindpsring.com<BR>
 Bi & proud <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:46:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
<BR>
At 10:23 AM 3/21/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
>situation in a Striker game?<BR>
<BR>
Haarumpppphh.. cough cough ACQ cough...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:49:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST<BR>
<BR>
At 11:02 AM 3/20/2000, I wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I need the ship's name, the location, date, and any canonical resolutions<BR>
>given.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks to everyone who replied.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:57:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
<BR>
How about a scenario involving an Imperial insertion into a Terran city, say<BR>
from the Invasion Earth setting. So that both sides are limited to lighter<BR>
(infantry) weapons. The Imperials only have what they drop with, and the<BR>
Terrans don't want to throw too much firepower around in downtown Phoenix<BR>
(or whatever).<BR>
<BR>
If April and May are dedicated to Battle Rider, we could try such a scenario<BR>
in the Summer.On the other hand, since we are all probably rusty on the game<BR>
mechanics, maybe we should try an easier scenario first.<BR>
<BR>
Thoughts?<BR>
<BR>
Other Bay Area people: see what you are missing?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 10:23 AM<BR>
Subject: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >Building to building fighting in Beirut and other places with<BR>
> >intense infantry combat in a modern urban setting suggested<BR>
> >that successful troops seize the high ground and go up to the<BR>
> >tops of skyscrapers.  Hotels and such places.  They then fire<BR>
> >*down* at pretty much any part of the street that inspires<BR>
> >them, with a merry lack of discrimination.  The notion has been<BR>
><BR>
> >advanced that vertical envelopment operations by helicopter be<BR>
> >planned to immediately seize the tops of buildings with the<BR>
> >most commanding views,and only secondary priority be placed on<BR>
> >seizing ground level.<BR>
><BR>
> Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
> situation in a Striker game?<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
> http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:03:45 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly everything is an established<BR>
cultural icon on one of the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial culture as a whole<BR>
is based on our own, late 20th century culture because it has to be.  We<BR>
have no reasonable chance of accurately predicting the cultural values of an<BR>
insterstellar society 3,000 years in our future, so the authors of Traveller<BR>
chose to project a familiar culture onto the 3I in order to better contrast<BR>
the weird cultures of individual worlds.  This gives the players a familiar<BR>
setting to play in and yet explore alien cultures.<BR>
Given this background, a lesbian Empress would provoke the same general<BR>
reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a lesbian world leader would today.<BR>
In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:51 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 11:12 PM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you <BR>
>>>imagine the dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an <BR>
>>>Archduchess and the heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't <BR>
>>>imagine that humanity will improve to the point where everyone <BR>
>>>would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
><BR>
>>!?!  I had to look twice for the poster's name to be sure that it <BR>
>>was indeed Doug Berry posting this :)<BR>
<BR>
>As a member of the GLBT community, I'm always sensitive to <BR>
>such concerns. One of the people at GLAAD put it this way: "It's <BR>
>easy to accept gay rights in theory. Seeing two bearded men <BR>
>kissing next door is harder."<BR>
<BR>
Sadly true for our own world.  However, I wouldn't bet anything on <BR>
this being the same 3,000 years in the future.  For one thing, the <BR>
fact that artificial wombs and reliable birth control having been <BR>
available for many *thousands* of years would likely change the <BR>
culture to such a point that the assumed link between procreation <BR>
and sex which lies at the heart of at least some objections to non-<BR>
straight sex would be long forgotten on most worlds.  <BR>
<BR>
Also, today, much homophobia is religiously based.  There will be <BR>
many and various different religions in the Imperium.  We might <BR>
best ask what the Vilani attitude towards homosexuality was, <BR>
since that will greatly influence Imperial mores.  Given that there <BR>
have been many cultures on our world where homosexuality, <BR>
transvestitism and similar behaviors have been perfectly acceptable<BR>
I think we cannot assume anything about Imperial attitudes <BR>
towards homosexuality.<BR>
<BR>
I'm reminded of the *wonderful* scene in 4th season Babylon 5 <BR>
when Marcus and Dr. Franklin were traveling to Mars with forged <BR>
papers saying that they were a couple on their honeymoon.  That's <BR>
my vision of the future.   <BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindpsring.com<BR>
 Bi & proud <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:26:25 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Mrs Simpson was an American divorcee who won the heart of Edward, Prince of<BR>
> Wales (later Edward VIII). Due to Constitutional reasons (yes, we do have<BR>
> one, though it is not codified into a single document...) he abdicated so<BR>
> that he could marry her, leaving the throne to his brother George VI, father<BR>
> of the present Queen.<BR>
<BR>
I truly suspect that had Edward not been the all-around self-absorbed<BR>
twit that he was, sufficient legal reasoning would have been to allow<BR>
him to do both. <BR>
<BR>
As it was there were a great many people who heaved sighs of relief when<BR>
he stepped down.<BR>
<BR>
(Of course, had he not been such a twit, he wouldn't have been attracted<BR>
to wallace in the first place..)<BR>
<BR>
the obTravs should be, well, obvious. Idjits in high places, and the<BR>
legal maneuverings to shiled the Imperium from them<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:49:12 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: NNTP Headers of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
> The "Distribution" header line would come back into prominence:<BR>
> <BR>
> local:  restricted to the ISP<BR>
> world:  restricted to the planet<BR>
> system: restricted to the solar system (in case of far companions,<BR>
>         they'd be excluded since it'd take a jump to get the stuff<BR>
>         there fast enough)<BR>
> subsector:<BR>
> sector:<BR>
> domain:<BR>
> galactic: unrestricted<BR>
<BR>
"This message may cost hundreds, if not <BR>
 thousands of dollars to distribute.<BR>
 Are you sure you want to do this?"<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:48:56 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
That's another good point.  A jump-6 system would have different routes and<BR>
would exclude systems that were once part of the system.  Also, a Jump-6<BR>
service would result in much of the Imperium getting their news much later<BR>
than they used to, if the  ships are always taking a J-6 (and if not, what<BR>
point is there in having a J-6 system?) - the important worlds at the far<BR>
reaches of the Imperium would get their news quicker, but more worlds will<BR>
have to be visited by secondary systems like scout couriers in order to<BR>
spread news, taking an extra jump in each case and thus an extra week.  More<BR>
worlds would have to be visited because the more efficient j-6 routes would<BR>
require less overall jumpts. <BR>
<BR>
Example: <BR>
Two systems are currently linked by an x-boat route at 4 parsecs.  If the<BR>
system is moved to jump-6, the second system will be missed by the x-boat<BR>
(it will make a full jump-6), and have to wait for a jump-2 ship to carry<BR>
this news back to it (as it was skipped), causing an extra week of delay<BR>
before receiving the news.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Walter Smith [mailto:SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:32 PM<BR>
To: 'TML'<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
>information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
>the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an <BR>
>edge) and it just isn't that expensive.  If you overlay a sector with a J-6<BR>
>grid you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; <BR>
<BR>
And you've moved how many worlds from "X-Boat Station" status to<BR>
"backwater" status? Get ready for a fight. <BR>
<BR>
Anthony again:<BR>
>have every route send data daily (guaranteeing maximum 24 hour turnover <BR>
> at any given waystation) and every boat jumping every 8 days.  This <BR>
> requires a total of 24 gigacredits in x-boats per sector.  <BR>
<BR>
In some bigger systems, Boats jump out on the hour. But that extra<BR>
"bandwidth" would have to be traffic between two nearby large worlds,<BR>
so probably they pay for themselves.<BR>
<BR>
Anthony again:<BR>
> Given the population of the imperium, the only question is _who_ will do<BR>
> it, not whether it will be done.<BR>
<BR>
It will be done *unless something stops it from happening*.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial interference, Noble intrigues, inter-Megacorp frictions, shortage<BR>
of <BR>
Jump-6 drive assemblies, take your pick. Something stopped it, either<BR>
rewrite YTU to have it not stopped, or pick an interesting reason why it<BR>
hasn't.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2147<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2148<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish <BR>
Vl: Vl: 40mm to the back <BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Famille Spofulam stuff<BR>
Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
RE: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:09:37 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it <BR>
>must have a different culture", then you will need to throw away <BR>
>much of the published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly <BR>
>everything is an established cultural icon on one of the 11,000 <BR>
>worlds, but Imperial culture as a whole is based on our own, late <BR>
>20th century culture because it has to be.  We have no <BR>
>reasonable chance of accurately predicting the cultural values of <BR>
>an insterstellar society 3,000 years in our future, so the authors of <BR>
>Traveller chose to project a familiar culture onto the 3I in order to <BR>
>better contrast the weird cultures of individual worlds.  This gives <BR>
>the players a familiar setting to play in and yet explore alien <BR>
>cultures.  Given this background, a lesbian Empress would <BR>
>provoke the same general reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as <BR>
>a lesbian world leader would today. In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
So, dark-skinned people in the Imperium still faces strong racial <BR>
prejudice in many worlds, and capitalists democracies are still <BR>
seen as the savior of humanity by most of the developed worlds?<BR>
<BR>
There are many established differences between the 3I and our <BR>
world.  The 3I culture is still a human culture composed of humans <BR>
living in an advanced technological society.  As such, it has many <BR>
similarities to our own.  However, in terms of religion (I see a <BR>
distinct lack of any canonical large, powerful religious <BR>
organizations, especially ones which resemble any of the <BR>
homophobic religions we have today), politics, and racial prejudice <BR>
it is very different.<BR>
<BR>
This is a universe, where many different species can live in <BR>
harmony.  As long as you are a loyal Imperial citizen, many folks <BR>
don't care how many arms or legs you possess.  At this point, <BR>
issues like sexuality become rather less important.  <BR>
<BR>
The 3I is familiar, but it is *not* our culture, if nothing else, <BR>
hereditary nobles with real power are rather rare in most developed <BR>
nations.  I see homophobia as no more deep-rooted than the <BR>
(admittedly quite serious) prejudice against black-americans in the <BR>
US.  It seems not at all unreasonable to say that in the 3I both <BR>
problems are ancient conflicts known only to a few historians.     <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:08:06 CST6CDT<BR>
From: igor@truserve.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish <BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> While I agree that Terran mores could have changed a lot,<BR>
> a hereditary system is going to tend to develop against<BR>
> seeing homosexuality as equally acceptable, esp. in those<BR>
> who need to produce heirs (or at least against complete<BR>
> homosexuality, bi might be OK for lovers on the side).<BR>
<BR>
not so sure about this...sure mores will have changed - and that includes <BR>
hereditary mores. In a world with genetic engineering (canon: Jonkereen), <BR>
cloning, and even cross-gender cloning (canon: Archduke Norris), I would think <BR>
a test-tube baby made from the DNA of two homosexual parents would be a genetic <BR>
child in every way - of both parents.<BR>
<BR>
If any genetic material is truly needed from both genders - such material can <BR>
be "Sterilized" of the donor's genetic markers and "imprinted" with one of <BR>
the "parents" - thus the egg or sperm would simply be the vehicle of genetic <BR>
delivery - not the delivery itself.<BR>
<BR>
Note that I got a C in high-school biology, so I could be waaaaay off base. But <BR>
it seems possible...<BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________<BR>
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.<BR>
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"<BR>
http://www.truserve.com        info@truserve.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:19:15 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vl: Vl: 40mm to the back <BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Mikko Mustajarvi <mikkomustajarvi@hotmail.com><BR>
To: <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 5:49 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Vl: 40mm to the back (was Re: 20mm to the head)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > ><BR>
> >In the Finlands Winter War one infantry grunt took a 82mm mortar round and <BR>
> >still lives... Apparently the round hit his shoulder coming straight down <BR>
> >from the sky travelled a few feet under the skin and stuck there in the <BR>
> >small of the back but didnt detonate. That I call luck...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:25:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>> Sure, but it's something that *would* evolve, both from the <BR>
>> misreading of those texts and from some "gay seperatist" types that <BR>
>> currently exist. <BR>
><BR>
> Fair enough, I didn't realize that this was indeed what you were going for.<BR>
<BR>
I was quoting "historical" examples as examples of where folks might<BR>
get the idea. I didn't say that the "history" was right.<BR>
<BR>
And again, I bet the anthro books have examples of stuff that'd<BR>
*really* bewilder players. Some, like that society of paranoids (I<BR>
can't find the saved file with the name of the tribe dammit!) probably<BR>
can't above very low TLs. Others wouldn't have that much trouble.<BR>
<BR>
Here are a few more possibilities:<BR>
<BR>
1. Neo-Nazis found the "Fourth Reich" somewhere. (Give the relatively<BR>
   low cost of interstellar travel in Traveller, I'd consider this one<BR>
   just about a "given")<BR>
<BR>
2. Pick a fallen empire or government, *any* empire or government.<BR>
   *Somebody* will try to revive it. For instance, there's this planet<BR>
   based on the Confederate States of America...<BR>
<BR>
3. I expect to see several *extreme* matriarchies and equally extreme<BR>
   patriarchies. As well as attempts at "single sex" worlds like<BR>
   Anderson's "Virgin Planet" or Bujold's Athos.<BR>
<BR>
4. Unpublishable but fun. Various "sexual" philosophies expressed<BR>
   planetwide. Everything from the "Playboy Philosophy" to to a BDSM<BR>
   paradise out of some of the better written BDSM fiction (and yes,<BR>
   the Imperium has laws against slavery, but they are easy enough to<BR>
   get around. Either the slaves are free leave any time they want to,<BR>
   or they are indentured servants. Either will do. Or maybe they are<BR>
   criminals.)<BR>
<BR>
#3 has interesting possibilities. Only the crewmembers of the<BR>
appropriate sex can even *contact* natives, much less leave the ship.<BR>
Picture the PCs who accept a cargo for delivery with a *big* bonus (and<BR>
big penalty for failure to deliver on time) and don't check out the<BR>
destination carefully enough. It's a Type D port. And they arrive to<BR>
discover that there's a satellite informing them that only females are<BR>
allowed on planet and if a male *tries* to contact the port, the ship<BR>
won't be allowed to unload *anything* (in fact, if the PCs try this,<BR>
they'll get shunted to a recording telling them to refuel from the<BR>
ocean (or icecap) on another world in the system and then jump out. Or<BR>
else...)<BR>
<BR>
I want to watch a typical all-male PC group try to work this one out.<BR>
Though a group with only one or two female characters could be almost<BR>
as much fun, as long as they are "junior members" of the group. <BR>
<BR>
And even if the group *does* "read the fine print" in the Library Data<BR>
for the world, and recruit some extra (female) crew, what do they do<BR>
with the displaced male crew? And are the females setting them up for a<BR>
hijacking?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:02:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On the topic of odd foods.<BR>
><BR>
> My 7 year old went with his class to the museum today, where they got to<BR>
> sample some sort of fired insect - millipede I think.  He liked it, said it<BR>
> tasted like popcorn.<BR>
><BR>
> I have mixed feelings about this.  Since he won't eat meat otherwise, I may<BR>
> have to learn some new cooking skills.<BR>
<BR>
Ants are supposed to be pretty good. I think you can actually *buy*<BR>
them. Ditto for grasshoppers. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:04:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>
>>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>> > How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
>>> Or cooked bird nests?<BR>
>>This I dunno about.<BR>
><BR>
>         It's the bird saliva (used to glue the nest together) that is boiled<BR>
>         out of the nests that make it really yummy.  Not to mention any other<BR>
>         ...um... impurities.  Makes you wonder who first got the bright idea<BR>
>         to make 'food' out of these things.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, in the case of the nests used in "birds nest soup", there<BR>
isn't anything to glue together. The nest is molded from thickened<BR>
saliva. Sort of like sculpting something by sticking together lumps of<BR>
half-dry snot... <yeeeccchhhh!!!!!><BR>
<BR>
>     ObTrav: What things are eaten on various worlds that are from apparently<BR>
>     entirely non-food sources?  Hair soup?  Nail-clipping paste?  A drink<BR>
>     made from the urine of a local animal?  Muffins made from mud?  Poison<BR>
>     fish liver?<BR>
<BR>
If you've got access to copies of Steve Perry's Matador series, read<BR>
(or re-read) them. You'll find the recipe for a "Shin's Kiss"... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:21:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Antti Lahtinen wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
><BR>
>>         Modern commercially available mail armor (novalite) is very<BR>
>>         durable and it is very difficult to penetrate with knives or<BR>
>>         hunting arrows. Novalite is used in butcher's safety gloves and<BR>
>>         diver's anti-shark suits.<BR>
><BR>
> The key words here are 'modern mail armor'. Such fine, strong mesh was<BR>
> quite unattainable given the technology available to smiths in the eras<BR>
> when chain mail was prevalent.<BR>
><BR>
> Also, this form of mail is designed to defend against sharp, cutting<BR>
> instruments (butcher knives and sharks teeth) I'd like to see how it<BR>
> holds up against a good whack with a battle axe or broadsword..<BR>
<BR>
Amen. <BR>
<BR>
You see, *part* of the protection afforded by chainmail is the *mass*<BR>
of the armor softens the blow. Novalite is *way* too light. It's also<BR>
way to flimsy. A blow from a broadsword is effectively the same as one<BR>
from an *axe*. You don't *slash*, you *chop*.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:27:13 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR>
> <BR>
> So, dark-skinned people in the Imperium still faces strong racial <BR>
> prejudice in many worlds, and capitalists democracies are still <BR>
> seen as the savior of humanity by most of the developed worlds?<BR>
<BR>
In some places, yes.  On 11,000+ worlds, there will be quite a bit of cultural variation.  The "y'all not from here"/"y'all not like us" mentality is, unfortunately, ingrained quite deeply in the human psyche.  Take any single human/non-human trait or combination thereof, and you will probably find a place where it is not liked or tolerated.<BR>
<BR>
> The 3I is familiar, but it is *not* our culture, if nothing else, <BR>
> hereditary nobles with real power are rather rare in most developed <BR>
> nations.  I see homophobia as no more deep-rooted than the <BR>
> (admittedly quite serious) prejudice against black-americans in the <BR>
> US.  It seems not at all unreasonable to say that in the 3I both <BR>
> problems are ancient conflicts known only to a few historians.     <BR>
<BR>
In most places, quite probably, but not everywhere.  Almost certainly, within the Imperial law/culture, such racism/speciesism/etc *is* rare (excepting artificial being, of course).  <BR>
<BR>
With conflict comes drama.<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:41:32 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
This reminds me of the planet "Sangre" from Norman Spinrad's book, "The Men<BR>
in the Jungle".  If you haven't read it, the planet is ran by a bloodthirsty<BR>
group called the Brotherhood of pain, led by Moro, Prohpet of Pain.  The<BR>
Military cadre are a trained group of soldiers named "killers" who carry<BR>
rifles and morningstars and have their teeth filed to points.  Their battle<BR>
chant is "kill kill kill kill".<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 4:25 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> 4. Unpublishable but fun. Various "sexual" philosophies expressed<BR>
>    planetwide. Everything from the "Playboy Philosophy" to to a BDSM<BR>
>    paradise out of some of the better written BDSM fiction (and yes,<BR>
>    the Imperium has laws against slavery, but they are easy enough to<BR>
>    get around. Either the slaves are free leave any time they want to,<BR>
>    or they are indentured servants. Either will do. Or maybe they are<BR>
>    criminals.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:34:36 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson writes:<BR>
>The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
>information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
>the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an edge)<BR>
>and it just isn't that expensive.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	It seems to be generally accepted that it is really important for the<BR>
	megacorporations and Imperial nobles to have the fastest possible<BR>
	communications systems, but is it possible that this might not be so?<BR>
	Given the local control that is deligated by the Powers That Be, a<BR>
	lag in communications might not be such a big deal.  I can hear some<BR>
	of you shaking your heads and going "tsk, tsk," and I probably agree<BR>
	with you.  On the other hand, does a megacorp really need to know the<BR>
	details of what is happening 2 sectors away on a regular basis?  Will<BR>
	the Emperor do anything important if he finds out about the FFW a<BR>
	couple of weeks earlier?  Can such important news travel by special<BR>
	fast couriers while the regular, dull, doesn't-matter-that-it-takes-<BR>
	an-extra-week news trundles along on the old x-boat route?<BR>
<BR>
	There are two major cost factors that I see helping to restrict the<BR>
	upgrading of the x-boat system.  First, there is the x-boats<BR>
	themselves.  Keep in mind that these were designed using LBB2, with<BR>
	a MCr 8 savings for using a standard 100-ton hull (IIRC).  These <BR>
	standard hulls only have room for a jump-4 drive, so any upgrade<BR>
	will loose the above saving.  The second factor is TL.  There are a<BR>
	lot of sub-TL15 worlds in the Imperium.  Why?  That's another <BR>
	potentially heavy topic to embark on (again), but at least IMTU it<BR>
	remains a feature of the Imperium.  For me, this means that it is<BR>
	difficult and expensive to maintain TL 15 vessels in the majority of<BR>
	the Imperium.  The Imperial Navy is a real pain, and that's why there<BR>
	are subsector navies.  I assume that the Imperium and the megacorps<BR>
	have fast couriers for truely pressing news, but that they can make<BR>
	do with the x-boat system for most purposes.<BR>
<BR>
	Now, where did I put that flame-proof underwear...<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:35:23 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
The prejudice of skin colors has been exchanged for a prejudice against<BR>
non-human races.  Brzk learned that the hard way.  He is the only non-human<BR>
Archduke and was never seriously considered a candidate for the Iridium<BR>
throne because of his race.  This prejudice is not as evident in the 3I as<BR>
it is in Solomani space, but it IS present.<BR>
<BR>
There is a prejudice against communism and communists in the US is replaced<BR>
by a prejudice against psionics in the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
It's true that religion has not been portrayed as a major force in the 3I.<BR>
GURPS Traveller says that this was done on purpose, to leave it open to<BR>
individual GMs to develop one way or the other.  This was perhaps a PC move<BR>
on the part of the designers, to avoid holding any one real-world religion<BR>
over another and thus anger potential customers.  The political system is<BR>
about the only thing about the 3I that is not based in late 20th century<BR>
culture, and it's backward-looking, not forward.<BR>
<BR>
Why are cloning and cybernetics not more widespread in the 3I?  Because they<BR>
don't exist in current society.  If they were more widespread in the 3I,<BR>
their culture would be very different from our own.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, I know the 3I is based on late 20th-century culture because the<BR>
designers say so (most notably in GURPS Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 3:10 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net> wrote:<BR>
 We have no <BR>
>reasonable chance of accurately predicting the cultural values of <BR>
>an insterstellar society 3,000 years in our future, so the authors of <BR>
>Traveller chose to project a familiar culture onto the 3I in order to <BR>
>better contrast the weird cultures of individual worlds.  This gives <BR>
>the players a familiar setting to play in and yet explore alien <BR>
>cultures.  Given this background, a lesbian Empress would <BR>
>provoke the same general reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as <BR>
>a lesbian world leader would today. In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
So, dark-skinned people in the Imperium still faces strong racial <BR>
prejudice in many worlds, and capitalists democracies are still <BR>
seen as the savior of humanity by most of the developed worlds?<BR>
<BR>
There are many established differences between the 3I and our <BR>
world.  The 3I culture is still a human culture composed of humans <BR>
living in an advanced technological society.  As such, it has many <BR>
similarities to our own.  However, in terms of religion (I see a <BR>
distinct lack of any canonical large, powerful religious <BR>
organizations, especially ones which resemble any of the <BR>
homophobic religions we have today), politics, and racial prejudice <BR>
it is very different.<BR>
<BR>
This is a universe, where many different species can live in <BR>
harmony.  As long as you are a loyal Imperial citizen, many folks <BR>
don't care how many arms or legs you possess.  At this point, <BR>
issues like sexuality become rather less important.  <BR>
<BR>
The 3I is familiar, but it is *not* our culture, if nothing else, <BR>
hereditary nobles with real power are rather rare in most developed <BR>
nations.  I see homophobia as no more deep-rooted than the <BR>
(admittedly quite serious) prejudice against black-americans in the <BR>
US.  It seems not at all unreasonable to say that in the 3I both <BR>
problems are ancient conflicts known only to a few historians.     <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:51:21 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson writes:<BR>
> Jason Postma writes:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > The official reason for not upgrading to a jump-6 network is cost...<BR>
> <BR>
> The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
> information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
> the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an edge)<BR>
> and it just isn't that expensive. <BR>
<BR>
Well, what seems most logical to me is that the Imperium subsidizes <BR>
the Xboat network to the point where it's nearly free, and <BR>
economically simpler for most corporations to just use the Xboats. <BR>
<BR>
Some megacorps may put in their own J-6 routes, but if you had the <BR>
choice of shipping via "UPS ground" for free or "FedEx overnight" <BR>
for CrLots, you might very well go for the cheaper route. <BR>
<BR>
Is there any canonical information that states that megacorps <BR>
*don't* use J-6 couriers at all? Does the Imperium actually have a <BR>
monopoly on J-6 drives? <BR>
<BR>
> If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
> you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; <BR>
<BR>
...and depending on how YTU handles maintenance of high-tech ships, <BR>
your waystations may all have to be on TL15 worlds, which may in <BR>
turn keep you out of the non-core areas.<BR>
<BR>
> have every route send<BR>
> data daily (guaranteeing maximum 24 hour turnover at any given waystation)<BR>
> and every boat jumping every 8 days.  This requires a total of 24 gigacredits<BR>
> in x-boats per sector.  Call it 2 gigacredits per year (8% of costs in <BR>
> maintenance; yes, that's rather high). <BR>
<BR>
This seems like an overly simple analysis. You're not accounting for <BR>
tenders, insystem relays, crew salaries, etc. The very small company <BR>
where I work owns maybe $100K in easily visible hi-tech hardware <BR>
(analogical Xboats); we spend about $50K a *month* in salaries, <BR>
rent, and whatnot. <BR>
<BR>
I imagine that the Imperium would discourage use of the regular Xboat <BR>
infrastructure for private couriers (both for good "technical support" <BR>
reasons and to discourage competition). Maybe a couple of companies<BR>
have started up to be the FedEx of the Imperium, but they have met <BR>
with limited success:<BR>
<BR>
 - They lost the "last paycheck" at the roulette table (there's a <BR>
possibly apocryphal story that in the early days of FedEx, they <BR>
were short of cash, and told each employee that they could take <BR>
their last paycheck and leave, or they could give their last <BR>
paycheck back to the company which would bet all the "last <BR>
paychecks" on a single roulette spin in Vegas)<BR>
<BR>
- - They made too much infrastructure for the number of customers <BR>
that were willing to pay for J-6 instead of taking J-4 for free<BR>
<BR>
- - They made too little infrastructure and couldn't provide as <BR>
reliable service as the Imperial routes<BR>
<BR>
- - Any number of Imperial conspiracies could quietly shut down <BR>
a fledgling company...<BR>
<BR>
How long has TL14 and TL15 been available to corps in the Imperium?<BR>
There would be no point at all in trying to make a better Xboat<BR>
network before TL14 (J-5), and I personally wouldn't bother with <BR>
J-5 boats.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:02:37 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Famille Spofulam stuff<BR>
<BR>
G-d, these are hysterical.  I hope to hell and back that someone<BR>
is collecting these.  The letter exchanges are great for input<BR>
method editing (that is, editing the input method, usually in<BR>
surprising and unplanned manners) - but the equipment itself, if<BR>
in conformance with the relevant design systems, may actually be<BR>
good stuff to stockpile (and throw at an unsuspecting party...).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:02:48 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
> have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
> published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly everything is an established<BR>
> cultural icon on one of the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial culture as a whole<BR>
> is based on our own, late 20th century culture because it has to be. <BR>
<BR>
Sorry, Jason, would that be "our own late 20th century culture" in  <BR>
San Francisco, where several of the TML folk live, and where we came <BR>
within spitting distance of electing a gay mayor last year, or the <BR>
late 20th century culture of, well, somewhere where being gay is <BR>
either illegal or suicidal? 	<BR>
<BR>
> Given this background, a lesbian Empress would provoke the same general<BR>
> reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a lesbian world leader would today.<BR>
> In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
Yet we've seen the Imperium accept as a leader, on multiple occasions, <BR>
someone whose primary claim to rule the empire was that they *openly* <BR>
killed the previous emperor, which would, I think, cause something of a <BR>
scandal in almost any culture on Earth today. <BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if Normal, Illinois had a tradition of mayoral <BR>
succession by assassination?<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:05:03 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
"Moody, Danny M." wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > The 3I is familiar, but it is *not* our culture, if nothing else,<BR>
> > hereditary nobles with real power are rather rare in most developed<BR>
> > nations.  I see homophobia as no more deep-rooted than the<BR>
> > (admittedly quite serious) prejudice against black-americans in the<BR>
> > US.  It seems not at all unreasonable to say that in the 3I both<BR>
> > problems are ancient conflicts known only to a few historians.<BR>
><BR>
> In most places, quite probably, but not everywhere.  Almost certainly, within the Imperial law/culture, such racism/speciesism/etc *is* rare (excepting artificial being, of course).<BR>
><BR>
> With conflict comes drama.<BR>
<BR>
    I'm even less optimistic in that regard.  As has been noted in the K'Kree combat thread, the human being is very much pack-oriented.  Anything that's not part of the pack (i.e. different) is perceived as threatening (at least until it's better known, but the perception of threat means that most pack members won't *want* to know it better).<BR>
It takes a definite effort of will to lift oneself above that sort of response, and even then nature doesn't reward those who are indiscriminately inquisitive.  The pack includes those you interact with frequently, with others of perceived similar thought on the periphery.<BR>
    If you want it from another perspective, look at the Balkans (the term "Balkanized" came from somewhere), an area which has been trampled over by numerous cultures and has representatives from many of them, with much bad blood between.  Some of their wars are centuries old, the reasons known only in general terms to those involved.  A<BR>
significant fraction (note, I didn't hazard the term "most") of these people don't *want* those wars to end, except by the destruction of whichever group is the one they hate.<BR>
<BR>
    For anyone who doesn't think such attitudes will be transported to the stars, my response is that they don't have to be.  Many worlds became isolated after the fall of the RoM, which is all that's necessary to provide the tinder awaiting only the spark of renewed contact with other worlds.  When I look at it from that perspective, it's a<BR>
miracle the 3I ever made it as far as it did.  To me, this explains a good deal of the Imperial method of control, even to the point of allowing limited war between member worlds.  It's understood that there will be irreconcilable differences, kept in check only by the high-level control the Imperium provides.  It's why the thought of another<BR>
Civil War has to be horrifying to those who truly understand the Big Picture.<BR>
<BR>
    I fully expect the 3I to exhibit many (if not all) of the worst examples of human behavior that Earth provides, as well as coming up with a few we haven't thought of yet.  It's the reason why the Zhodani are so worried about them as neighbors.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:07:39 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
>>situation in a Striker game?<BR>
<BR>
>Haarumpppphh.. cough cough ACQ cough...<BR>
<BR>
Hmm... I was envisioning the Israeli approach to handling<BR>
Lebanese entrenched in skyscrapers: howitzers as direct fire<BR>
weapons (higher upward angle than tanks), hence Striker as a<BR>
system.  Can ACQ cover this situation?  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:26:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I was quoting "historical" examples as examples of where folks might<BR>
> get the idea. I didn't say that the "history" was right.<BR>
> <BR>
> And again, I bet the anthro books have examples of stuff that'd<BR>
> *really* bewilder players. Some, like that society of paranoids (I<BR>
> can't find the saved file with the name of the tribe dammit!) probably<BR>
> can't above very low TLs. Others wouldn't have that much trouble.<BR>
> <BR>
> Here are a few more possibilities:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1. Neo-Nazis found the "Fourth Reich" somewhere. (Give the relatively<BR>
> low cost of interstellar travel in Traveller, I'd consider this one<BR>
> just about a "given")<BR>
ObTrav: Hmmmm...Now I'll have to come up with the planet HELDON, from Norman<BR>
Spinrad's novel "The Iron Dream." If anyone hasn't read this, it's an<BR>
alternate universe novel called "Lord of the Swastika" by none other than<BR>
ADOLF HITLER!<BR>
He migrated to the USA in 1919 after the failed Beer Hall Putsch and became<BR>
an illustrator for sci-fi fanzines, he took up the pen after he learned<BR>
English, Shortly after he completed this last and greatest novel in 1953, he<BR>
died of (what else but) syphilis. "Lord of the Swastika" won the 1955 Hugo<BR>
Award for Best Science Fiction novel.<BR>
All this, in an alternate universe where the Greater Soviet Union rules the<BR>
entire world circa 1959, save for the USA, Canada and Japan.....<BR>
<BR>
Back to Heldon for the moment...Early Terran colonization rimward could<BR>
easily produce a timeline where Heldon could evolve into the<BR>
"mongrelization" of the colonists, a thousand years after the "Great Fire of<BR>
the Ancients."<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav2: A Solomani ship detects a TL 9 colony ship headed toward Tau Ceti.<BR>
It's violated Solomani space of course and they board it, only to find 300<BR>
clone tanks and wardrobes similar to 20th-Century Nazi Germany.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra<BR>
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:28:32 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Why, it would be the 20th century culture of Utah, of course, where I live.<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
I'm speaking of general trends.  20th century culture, when applied on a<BR>
world scale, is anything but homogenous.  20th century culture, when applied<BR>
to the US, Canada, Western Europe and Australia (where the designers and as<BR>
far as I can tell, nearly everyone on the TML lives) is varied, but has<BR>
common themes and roots.  Each area has it's own idiosyncracies (I should<BR>
know, living in Utah), but there is an identifiable Western culture, and<BR>
there are identifiable Western mores and morals.  It is these that are<BR>
preserved, in general, in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
As I mentioned in an earlier post - the political structure of the Imperium<BR>
is even more backward-looking than the cultural aspects.  That hardly<BR>
supports a future where cultural prejudices do not exist.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel [mailto:kaleja@estarcion.com]<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 4:03 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
> have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
> published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly everything is an<BR>
established<BR>
> cultural icon on one of the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial culture as a whole<BR>
> is based on our own, late 20th century culture because it has to be. <BR>
<BR>
Sorry, Jason, would that be "our own late 20th century culture" in  <BR>
San Francisco, where several of the TML folk live, and where we came <BR>
within spitting distance of electing a gay mayor last year, or the <BR>
late 20th century culture of, well, somewhere where being gay is <BR>
either illegal or suicidal? 	<BR>
<BR>
> Given this background, a lesbian Empress would provoke the same general<BR>
> reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a lesbian world leader would<BR>
today.<BR>
> In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
Yet we've seen the Imperium accept as a leader, on multiple occasions, <BR>
someone whose primary claim to rule the empire was that they *openly* <BR>
killed the previous emperor, which would, I think, cause something of a <BR>
scandal in almost any culture on Earth today. <BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if Normal, Illinois had a tradition of mayoral <BR>
succession by assassination?<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2148<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2149</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2149<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
RE: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Infomation please. (Power Armour for MT)<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:56:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
<BR>
>Does anyone know if Normal, Illinois had a tradition of mayoral succession<BR>
by assassination?<BR>
><BR>
Dammit, Russell, keyboards are expensive!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
(2 weeks surviving the breakup with Hiroshi and getting fired the same day--<BR>
it's good to laugh!)<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect<BR>
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>
impractical.  It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:01:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>> The key words here are 'modern mail armor'. Such fine, strong mesh was<BR>
>> quite unattainable given the technology available to smiths in the eras<BR>
>> when chain mail was prevalent.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mostly right but the exception proves the rule.  Lorenzo the Magnificent and<BR>
his brother were attending mass when the assasins struck with daggers.<BR>
Lorenzo with the foresight of the truly parnoid was wearing a light vest or<BR>
shirt of fine chain mail under his velvets his brother was not.  Lorenzo<BR>
lived as the mail turned the blades.  The incident happened in 16th century<BR>
Italy, I forget the date or the city but will look it up if any one wants<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
As a side note just two days ago I got a really close look as some chain<BR>
mail from Ottoman Empire, two hip length shirts with inset metal plates<BR>
across the chest.  The links were single rivited but not talismatic, however<BR>
there was a talismatic cotton shirt which had apparently been worn at least<BR>
once close to the body.  Look for the exhibit "Ottoman Art from the Khalili<BR>
Collection" in a museum near you.  It is going to Chicago and New York as<BR>
well as Houston if I am not mistaken.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:03:55 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 4:08 PM -0800 3/21/00, igor@truserve.com wrote:<BR>
>"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  > While I agree that Terran mores could have changed a lot,<BR>
>  > a hereditary system is going to tend to develop against<BR>
>  > seeing homosexuality as equally acceptable, esp. in those<BR>
>  > who need to produce heirs (or at least against complete<BR>
>  > homosexuality, bi might be OK for lovers on the side).<BR>
><BR>
>not so sure about this...sure mores will have changed - and that includes<BR>
>hereditary mores. In a world with genetic engineering (canon: Jonkereen),<BR>
>cloning, and even cross-gender cloning (canon: Archduke Norris), I would think<BR>
>a test-tube baby made from the DNA of two homosexual parents would <BR>
>be a genetic<BR>
child in every way - of both parents.<BR>
<BR>
In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:37:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> That has to be part of it.  The K'kree are more intelligent than any<BR>
> wilderbeasts, and with that greater intelligence they have gained the<BR>
> ability to form stronger emotional bonds.  True, the herd should still be<BR>
> paramount in their minds, but with intelligence they also have stronger<BR>
> bonds to individuals and the posibility of self sacrifice.  A wounded K'kree<BR>
> set out as "bait" might do what he can to kill himself - saving the herd<BR>
> from the trap set for them.<BR>
<BR>
Remember, the K'kree evolved intelligence to survive a "fight" against<BR>
*intelligent* predators. This will be an *old* situation for them. One<BR>
that they may have *instinctive* as well as reasoned responses to. <BR>
<BR>
And I think evolution would favor the K'kree staying alive and<BR>
conveying as much info to his comrades as he can, even if it's onlt be<BR>
a distinctive pheromone that says "TRAP!" to other K'kree. <BR>
<BR>
And as I point out in another method, another evolutionarily favorable<BR>
response would to be kill on sight/scent any non-K'kree found *near* an<BR>
injured K'kree. <BR>
<BR>
At the very least, the sight/scent of a herd member in such a situation<BR>
ought to trigger immediate, full-scale "fight or flight" response at<BR>
the biological level. In other words, instant full-bore adrenalin<BR>
surge, making the body as ready as possible to fight or escape.<BR>
<BR>
Justr remember that for a K'kree flight is only the response if fight<BR>
is impractical/impossible. Otherwise theyu'd still be fighting the<BR>
original G'nakk!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:26:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, john hamilton wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > The "neuroses" can give you a bit of a handle.<BR>
>> > K'Kree don't like tight<BR>
>> > spaces, and don't like being alone. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> When a K'kree is immobilized and injured,and used as a<BR>
>> bait in an obvious (!) trap,would the herd still take<BR>
>> the risk and enter it to save it?<BR>
><BR>
> No. The individual is expendable, the Herd is paramount. Risking the Herd<BR>
> to save an individual is not a motivation. Look at it this way: watch some<BR>
> documentary on the veldt in Africa. Does the herd of wildebeest turn and<BR>
> charge the lions when they take a straggler? No. Their only perceived<BR>
> safety is _as a group_. A lone K'Kree (injured or not!) is already dead to<BR>
> them.<BR>
><BR>
> This is not to say that _some_ herd animals do defend members,<BR>
> particularly young, but that is a different situation from war.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, you have to keep in mind that *this* "herd of<BR>
wildebeest" *wiped out* their "lions". As a *species* their survival<BR>
involved *fighting back*.<BR>
<BR>
There are some herbivores on earth that have made fighting back a<BR>
survival strategy. There are *none* who have actually taken that "next<BR>
step" and *actively* hunted down their predators.<BR>
<BR>
The closest analogue I can think of is Africanized Bees. And for *them*<BR>
the "sight" (scent, actually) of a badly injured comrade induces an<BR>
urge to attack anything in sight that might be responsible.<BR>
<BR>
> In fact, it's more than likely that the K'Kree would be using wounded<BR>
> human as bait instead. Humans are pack animals, as compared to herd<BR>
> animals (in a very broad and crudely delineated sense, but it's one reason<BR>
> wolves and us have gotten along so famously for about 40k years, except<BR>
> we call 'em dogs now) <BR>
<BR>
> Packs tend to be smaller, and more willing to assist<BR>
> an injured/sick/otherwise disabled member. Again, this is a broad<BR>
> generalization, not all pack animals do this all the time, but it is a<BR>
> sufficiently common phenomonon, and has been seen among wolves, dolphins<BR>
> and orcas. (and humans, of course; it's a common thing. We'll risk the<BR>
> lives of dozens of rescuers, trying to save some idiot who shouldn't have <BR>
> been up in those montains in the first place. Willingly, again and again.)<BR>
<BR>
Again, K'kree are *different*. They may not "aid" an individual, but<BR>
they may have something similar to the "killer bee" instinct to kill<BR>
any possible "threat" near an individual who is wounded.<BR>
<BR>
> We could use that trick on Aslan or Vargr, I'll bet, but a K'Kree would<BR>
> just look at the injured one and think 'Aha! There's a downed K'Kree.<BR>
> Those degenerate G'naak must be around somewhere waiting to feed....they<BR>
> never go far from their prey.'<BR>
<BR>
And the K'kree's *instinct* would likely encourage him to "kill them<BR>
all, let God sort them out".<BR>
<BR>
>  <click> "This is battalion commander J'Katgh. We have found a<BR>
> concentration of the enemy, request an orbital strike on map hexes A234<BR>
> through C236 inclusive."<BR>
<BR>
> He sits back and watches. In about 30 seconds, a square kilometer around<BR>
> the downed K'Kree explodes. A couple of times, just to make sure.<BR>
<BR>
> To the K'Kree, 'Let's nuke it from orbit!' isn't a desperate measure, it's<BR>
> SOP.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, as I point out above, it may be *instinct*.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:45:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 21:10 -0500 20/3/00, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
>>Interesting canon issue here - if this be canon then in-system jumps<BR>
>>use less fuel than interstellar jumps. This the later be canon then<BR>
>>this passage (and the whole scenario as well).<BR>
><BR>
> Err - is it really an issue? If J1 takes 10% disp vol, and J3 30% etc <BR>
> then you would expect J0 to take less? ie half a parsec takes 5% <BR>
> etc...<BR>
<BR>
Except that it's clearly stated that without a "jump governor" a jump<BR>
drive uses the same amount of fuel for a short jump as for a max jump.<BR>
Thus a J3 engine without a governor uses J3 worth of fuel for *any*<BR>
jump. <BR>
<BR>
And I seem to recall other references to the effect that the original<BR>
"in-system" uses of the J1 drive used a full J1 worth of fuel (of<BR>
course that could be because the governor isn't invented until several<BR>
TLs after you get J2...)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:49:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>    How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
>>The hydrogen molecule is *very* small. It'll *flow* thru seals that are<BR>
>>merely "airtight". It'll even leak thru solid metal if there's a decent<BR>
>>pressure differential. And in the process, it'll make a number of<BR>
>>metals quite brittle. And if there's oxygen on the other side of the<BR>
>>seal or other barrier, you now have a fire/explosion hazard once the<BR>
>>concentration of hydrogen inside gets high enough.<BR>
><BR>
>         If you will pardon the pun, this argument seams a little thin.<BR>
><BR>
>         Sorry, I just had to write that.  I can easily believe that some H2<BR>
>         will seep through the vacc suit, but at TL's where fuel bladders<BR>
>         can carry H2 in a starship hold, I would expect the amount of H2 to<BR>
>         be small and easily managed by standard life support systems.<BR>
<BR>
The fuel bladders are at very low temps, and *designed* to hold LH2.<BR>
Gaseous H2 at normal pressures and temps is a much different matter.<BR>
<BR>
>         I<BR>
>         hadn't realized that H2 could diffuse through solid metal, what kind<BR>
>         of pressure differential is required to make this flow significant?<BR>
<BR>
None. What's required is a *concentration* differential. That is, what<BR>
matters is that the *partial pressure* of hydrogen on each side of the<BR>
partition be different. It's rather like osmosis that way. And even if<BR>
there's the same partial pressure of hydrogen on each side, it'll still<BR>
diffuse *into* the metal. In fact, the metal may tend to adsorb large<BR>
amounts of the gas, and release it later when the amount available<BR>
externally drops. Different metals adsorb differing amounts.<BR>
<BR>
>         Is the metal made brittle by chemical reactions? <BR>
<BR>
Not exactly. The hydrogen atoms move *between* the crystals in the<BR>
metal, and their mere *presence* affects bond strengths. <BR>
<BR>
>  Are sparks likely inside a vacc suit? <BR>
<BR>
Good question. I don't really know. But keep in mind that there are<BR>
places (such as the valving the takes the high pressure oxygen in the<BR>
storage tanks and reduces it to the pressure you breath) where you can<BR>
get shock waves or shock pulses. That's you you *never* lubricate the<BR>
valves on an oxygen tank. The shock front as the high pressure O2<BR>
enters the valve assembly would ignite anything flammable.<BR>
*Explosively* ignite it. <BR>
<BR>
>         The way it is explained, I would expect any H2 atmosphere to be<BR>
>         insidious.  Is this what is being proposed?<BR>
<BR>
Yep!<BR>
<BR>
Helium is also pretty damned insidious, but being inert, it's more of a<BR>
nuisance than a danger. Early deep sea habs learned the hardway about<BR>
helium leaks. It'd "leak" into vacuum tubes, ruining them! The high<BR>
pressure helped, but even at normal pressure helium will leak in if<BR>
there's enough of it around. Luckily the amount in normal air is almost<BR>
immeasurable.<BR>
<BR>
> and William F. Hostman writes:<BR>
>>One: Free Hydrogen is readily available to combine with other substances to<BR>
>>thus become non-free, and especially acidic compounds...<BR>
><BR>
>        My chemistry is a little rusty, is this likely to happen with free H2?<BR>
>        The Hindenburg didn't acidify itself, did it?<BR>
<BR>
No. And in fact, the Hydrogen in the Hindenburg played little part in<BR>
its demise, according to recent investigations. The fabric covering the<BR>
Hindenburg was treated with special sealants (which contained a lot of<BR>
iron oxide for some reason) and then painted with aluminum paint. Turns<BR>
out that the combo was entirely too close coating the cloth with<BR>
*thermite*...<BR>
<BR>
>>two: Free hydrogen WILL sublimate through most materials. Quite readily.<BR>
>>And, if it slowly does so, fire will result in the oxygen atmosphere with<BR>
>>minimal encouragement; at least, unless you exceed the burnability level.<BR>
><BR>
>         I just figured that the flow of H2 would be very low, much lower than<BR>
>         that of CO2, etc., that is flushed from the system.  I suppose that<BR>
>         it might build up if no life support systems were able to flush it<BR>
>         well.  This would make any H2 atmosphere Insidious.<BR>
<BR>
The trick is that the life support system has no provisions to deal<BR>
with hydrogen gas! The CO2 is either processed by plants, or adsorbed<BR>
by chemicals that have a strong affinity for it. <BR>
<BR>
H2 will build up, limited only by anything that can catalyse its<BR>
combination with other materials. Most likely is oxygen. But until<BR>
hydrogen builds up to a few percent (lower flammability limit), such<BR>
reactions will take place *very* slowly. Far too slowly to be<BR>
significant.<BR>
<BR>
Areas where hydrogen leakage from the tanks and drives is likely will<BR>
have detectors for hydrogen. But that's pretty much restricted to<BR>
engineering, and *because* Engineering will be built to help contain<BR>
leaks, it may be one of the *last* places hydrogen leaking in from<BR>
*outside* may reach.<BR>
<BR>
>>3 Free hydrogen can make certain compounds brittle through various means.<BR>
><BR>
>         Is this true of H2 in general, or just liquid H2?<BR>
<BR>
Hydrogen gas adsorbed inside a lot of metals has to be removed as part<BR>
of the processing or the metal is too brittle to use. Brittle as<BR>
*glass*. <BR>
<BR>
Believe it or not, extreme cold only makes *some* metals brittle. It<BR>
depends on the crystal structure. Aluminum doesn't get exceptionally<BR>
brittle at low temps. Alas, iron and iron alloys (most steels) *do*.<BR>
<BR>
Note that the *very* thin aluminum skins of the fuel tanks in most<BR>
rockets aren't all that brittle, even at liquid hydrogen temps.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:10:21 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
> From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]<BR>
> <BR>
> In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
> normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
> I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
> be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
<BR>
Bingo!  It's the 'worth specific mention' part that is important.  According to a MTJ article (an interview with the Archduke), Norris has a truedaughter - a clone of himself, but changed to female.  No one seemed to mind that.<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:25:57 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Regarding:<BR>
>?Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
>Taken so far are: [list snipped]<BR>
<BR>
I just hope it is not too late to bid for Tavonni. The BtC entry is based on my<BR>
writeup...<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:31:48 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 6:10 PM -0600 3/21/00, Moody, Danny M. wrote:<BR>
>  > From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>  > normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>  > I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
>  > be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
><BR>
>Bingo!  It's the 'worth specific mention' part that is important. <BR>
>According to a MTJ article (an interview with the Archduke), Norris <BR>
>has a truedaughter - a clone of himself, but changed to female.  No <BR>
>one seemed to mind that.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't know about that.  It seemed worthy of specific comment<BR>
and appeared to be remarkable...<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:42:41 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Infomation please. (Power Armour for MT)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
"Charlie" wrote:<BR>
>I am in search of a spreadsheet for MS Office. I need one for MT so I can<BR>
>work up some power armor.<BR>
<BR>
So am I. I'm trying to find the one I created to create E.R.I.C. - must be still<BR>
on the Amiga!<BR>
<BR>
>Any insights anyone has with this type of armor design or game play would<BR>
>be real good too.<BR>
<BR>
Basically, use "Book 8: Robots" plus "101 Robots" plus the MT Ref's Guide to<BR>
build the things. Have a read of E.R.I.C. at my website (trendi --> Robots --><BR>
E.R.I.C.).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:52:02 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> This is a universe, where many different species can live in<BR>
> harmony.<BR>
<BR>
...like the Vilani and Zhodani.<BR>
<BR>
> The 3I is familiar, but it is *not* our culture, if nothing else,<BR>
> hereditary nobles with real power are rather rare in most developed<BR>
> nations.  <BR>
<BR>
It is very reasonable and defensible to say that 3000 years<BR>
from now we will probably have the same human nature:<BR>
<BR>
1. Power, whether representative or totalitarian, will continue<BR>
   to be the major draw for leaders.<BR>
<BR>
2. Law enforcement and public defense will still exist, <BR>
   because there will be criminals and selfish intent.<BR>
<BR>
3. Culture will still be used as an excuse for predjudice.<BR>
<BR>
4. Bravery, prudence, justice, and temperance will still be<BR>
   virtues, just as cowardice, thoughtlessness, unfairness,<BR>
   and excess will remain vices.<BR>
<BR>
Your 3I will reflect your vision of the future, be it<BR>
ideal, improved, static, declining, or dystopian.  But<BR>
whetever it is, its inhabitants will still be judging<BR>
whether their society has progressed or not based on a<BR>
standard common to the human race.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:17:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> There's a section in the Rebellion Sourcebook that goes into why X-boats are<BR>
> Jump-4 (forgive me if I don't quote it verbatim - I don't have it with me):<BR>
><BR>
> The official reason for not upgrading to a jump-6 network is cost.  There<BR>
> are thousands of Jump-4 X-boats out there and upgrading all of them would be<BR>
> an enormous undertaking, not to mention the maintenance and fueling changes<BR>
> that would have to be made to support a Jump-6 fleet.  <BR>
<BR>
And the fact that to get any *advantage* out of them, you'd have to<BR>
redraw the *entire* X-boat network. Which means changing lots and lots<BR>
of "nodes" (places where several routes cross) and the associated bases<BR>
and facilities.<BR>
<BR>
Operating J6 X-boats one anything less than a J5 link is a *waste*.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:12:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Walt Smith writes:<BR>
>>>I can easily believe that some H2 will seep through the vacc suit, <BR>
>>>but at TL's where fuel bladders can carry H2 in a starship hold, <BR>
>>>I would expect the amount of H2 to be small and easily managed by <BR>
>>>standard life support systems<BR>
>>Ship Operator's Manual talks about double-walled tanks and catalysts<BR>
>>to trap the seeping hydrogen. Collapsible tanks - which are probably<BR>
>>more like rigid-walled modules than big bags - should have similar<BR>
>>systems.<BR>
><BR>
>         I go with the rigid modules (and include 25% waste space), but<BR>
>         the point that I was making is that H2 leakage should be<BR>
>         relatively slow.  Couldn't it be removed by the vacc suit's<BR>
>         life support system?<BR>
<BR>
It *could*. But only if the designer had a reason to *expect* free<BR>
hydrogen *inside* the suit. Which is *very* unlikely. The stuff<BR>
required to deal with it isn't useful for *anything* else.<BR>
<BR>
You probably have a smoke detector in your house. Maybe even a carbon<BR>
monoxide detector or a radon detector. But you almost certainly don't<BR>
have a detector for chlorine. <BR>
<BR>
Same idea. It's just not that *likely* to be a problem (even though you<BR>
can create fatal amounts of chlorine by mixing any of several household<BR>
chemicals). <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:21:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The problem with this theory is that it doesn't make any sense -- faster <BR>
> information transit is at least as important to the megacorps as it is to <BR>
> the imperium (knowing what the markets are up to sooner is always an edge)<BR>
> and it just isn't that expensive.  If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
> you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; have every route send<BR>
> data daily (guaranteeing maximum 24 hour turnover at any given waystation)<BR>
> and every boat jumping every 8 days.  This requires a total of 24 gigacredits<BR>
> in x-boats per sector.  Call it 2 gigacredits per year (8% of costs in <BR>
> maintenance; yes, that's rather high).  That's a corporation equivalent in <BR>
> size to a modern FedEx or something similar.  Given the population of the <BR>
> imperium, the only question is _who_ will do it, not whether it will be<BR>
> done.<BR>
<BR>
Now take a look and see how few of the existing nodes on the J4 net are<BR>
on your J6 net. And consider that every single world that winds up no<BR>
longer being a node is going to hate your guts. <BR>
<BR>
You are proposing the equivalent of moving *all* (or almost all) the<BR>
major airports on Earth to small towns. Sure, you'll have lots of room<BR>
to build and expand. And every single *existing* hub that is going to<BR>
wind up no longer a hub will do everything in their power to kill your<BR>
scheme because of the business (and in the case of the x-boat network,<BR>
advantages from getting information before other people) that yor new<BR>
network will *lose* them.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:27:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I've started work on SM 3035 Prilissa/Trin's Veil (B985588-6).<BR>
>> Canonically it is an agricultural world with earthlike fauna, but<BR>
>> according to the Imperial Encyclopedia and Regency Sourcebook its<BR>
>> primary star is K9V. If I place it close enough to reconcile these it<BR>
>> has to be tide-locked. My options:<BR>
>><BR>
>> 1. Change the star type. I don't want to do this unless I have to.<BR>
>><BR>
>> 2. Give it resonant tide-locking. With the rotation period being 2/3rds<BR>
>> the orbital period the local day will be almost 15 Earth days. This is<BR>
>> long enough that nowhere will be permanently habitable and short enough<BR>
>> that the cereal production mentioned in BtC is unlikely at best. With<BR>
>> TL6 tech, mobile farms moving around the planet at 25mph seem unlikely<BR>
>> too. Unless I can have resonant tide-locking with smaller fractions this<BR>
>> doesn't seem like a good option.<BR>
<BR>
Why is it uninhabitable? remember, you are going to have air<BR>
circulation. Current thought is that even true "one face worlds" (ie<BR>
1:1 lock) should be reasonably habitable as long as all the water<BR>
doesn't pile up on the darkside.<BR>
<BR>
Consider that a lot of places in the arctic get that much sunlight (or<BR>
close to it!) in midsummer. As long as the temp swings are reasonable<BR>
(ie it doesn't get above say 130F or below 40F) the plants will do just<BR>
fine. <BR>
<BR>
>> 3. Make the world properly tide-locked. Using First In rules this gives<BR>
>> it a comfortable twilight region between the dark and bright faces, with<BR>
>> well over half the planet's surface habitable (which seems a little<BR>
>> generous, but I'm not complaining). This currently looks like the best<BR>
>> option.<BR>
<BR>
Again, if it's got an earthlike atmosphere, even the middle of dayside<BR>
may be habitable. <BR>
<BR>
>> Are there any major problems with option 3 that I haven't spotted? If<BR>
>> not, any clues on climatic conditions, and what will happen to the<BR>
>> oceans? I imagine there could be a constant high-altitude darkward wind<BR>
>> combined with a low-altitude brightward wind driven by the heating of<BR>
>> the air on the bright face. Might this happen, and what effect would it<BR>
>> have on precipitation patterns? What happens in the middle altitudes?<BR>
<BR>
It's unlikely to rain much in the center of brightside. But it will<BR>
rain a lot a ways into darkside. There are varying opinions as to how<BR>
much (if any) of an icecap there will be. Brightside gets watered by<BR>
streams flowing into it from nightside. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:17:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason Postma<BR>
The prejudice of skin colors has been exchanged for a prejudice against<BR>
non-human races.  Brzk learned that the hard way.  He is the only non-human<BR>
Archduke and was never seriously considered a candidate for the Iridium<BR>
throne because of his race.  This prejudice is not as evident in the 3I as<BR>
it is in Solomani space, but it IS present.<BR>
>Of course Jason is right here; while 3I may not have our 20th century<BR>
prejudices, the whole nobility structure is built on excluding the<BR>
disenfranchised. Even TAS is an elitist organization. What ref on this list<BR>
hasn't used exclusion from a group as an obstacle for PCs to overcome or<BR>
even used the blessing of some high placed patron as a reward?  How about<BR>
even just an audience with a significant noble? I know that I'm stating the<BR>
obvious here, but how about the prejudice that exists between (& within) the<BR>
service arms; yeah, sure, your PC is a _Jaberwok_ eating army veteran, but<BR>
has he ever made landfall from "high-guard"? NO?!!! Then he is not even<BR>
worthy to lick the boots of that marine NPC with the "space-jump" starburst<BR>
that looks like a falling star!<BR>
<BR>
It's true that religion has not been portrayed as a major force in the 3I.<BR>
GURPS Traveller says that this was done on purpose, to leave it open to<BR>
individual GMs to develop one way or the other.<BR>
>These plot devices need not be divisive to the List: what would happen if a<BR>
K'Kree diplomat visiting a major space port learned that in a certain<BR>
"little" cubby-hole in the starport there was a group of self professed non<BR>
violent vegetarians (verified by scent) that none the less were in the nasty<BR>
habit of drinking the Blood of the Son of Man?  Would the Aslan that had<BR>
tasted Solomani before stop in for a drink?<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: -John Snead<BR>
So, dark-skinned people in the Imperium still faces strong racial <BR>
prejudice in many worlds, and capitalists democracies are still <BR>
seen as the savior of humanity by most of the developed worlds?<BR>
>Yes.<BR>
<BR>
There are many established differences between the 3I and our <BR>
world.  The 3I culture is still a human culture composed of humans <BR>
living in an advanced technological society.  As such, it has many <BR>
similarities to our own.  However, in terms of religion (I see a <BR>
distinct lack of any canonical large, powerful religious <BR>
organizations, especially ones which resemble any of the <BR>
homophobic religions we have today), politics, and racial prejudice <BR>
it is very different.<BR>
>Sure they can exist within 3I, and the opposite as well. Why couldn't you<BR>
have a religion on high population worlds where they would be<BR>
"hetero-phobic"?<BR>
<BR>
This is a universe, where many different species can live in <BR>
harmony.  As long as you are a loyal Imperial citizen, many folks <BR>
don't care how many arms or legs you possess.  At this point, <BR>
issues like sexuality become rather less important.  <BR>
>If people are still having sex in 3I then you will have groups passionate<BR>
about it in different ways.  If in YTU this is not so then why wouldn't<BR>
people/aliens not be passionate (prejudiced) about other things: Smokers on<BR>
zero atmosphere rocks; meat eaters on meatless rocks; veterans on pacifist<BR>
rocks; pacifists on war-torn rocks; nobles in republics; republicans on<BR>
Core?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2149<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2150</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, March 21 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2150<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Grav Ball (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2149<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
Re: Why X-boats are jump-4<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Why X-boat routes are jump-4<BR>
Re: Why X-boats are jump-4<BR>
Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
GT: Starports<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: NNTP Headers of the Third Imperium<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Vs: Droyne Closers<BR>
Re: Famille Spofulam stuff<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:27:51 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Grav Ball (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
<BR>
Me!<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: D. Smart [mailto:dsmart@imagin.net]<BR>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 7:32 PM<BR>
To: Traveller Mail List<BR>
Subject: Grav Ball (was Re: Alien Sport and Beer)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche<BR>
><BR>
>> There are Gravball rules out on the net somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
> Any chance of getting me a URL?<BR>
<BR>
I don't have the URL anymore but I sure have the<BR>
HTML files and imbedded graphics themselves.<BR>
They truly rock!<BR>
<BR>
So..<BR>
<BR>
Who wants 'em?<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:34:41 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2149<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Except that it's clearly stated that without a "jump governor" a jump<BR>
> drive uses the same amount of fuel for a short jump as for a max jump.<BR>
> Thus a J3 engine without a governor uses J3 worth of fuel for *any*<BR>
> jump. <BR>
<BR>
Sorry, is this clearly stated anywhere but first edition High <BR>
Guard? Or, rather, aren't jump governors standard issue for all<BR>
jump drives except in HG1?<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:36:18 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I'm comming in late (ie haven't read other posts on this topic), but would like to add a bit..<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:27:19   Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>Consider that a lot of places in the arctic get that much sunlight (or<BR>
>close to it!) in midsummer. As long as the temp swings are reasonable<BR>
>(ie it doesn't get above say 130F or below 40F) the plants will do just<BR>
>fine. <BR>
<BR>
And in fact in Antartica millions of years ago did do just fine. A warm current used to run down to the south pole, so that in summer the temp was warm enough for forests to grow across the entire pole. In winter, with months of darkness, and constant below freezing temps, everything hibernated. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>> Are there any major problems with option 3 that I haven't spotted? If<BR>
>>> not, any clues on climatic conditions, and what will happen to the<BR>
>>> oceans? I imagine there could be a constant high-altitude darkward wind<BR>
>>> combined with a low-altitude brightward wind driven by the heating of<BR>
>>> the air on the bright face. Might this happen, and what effect would it<BR>
>>> have on precipitation patterns? What happens in the middle altitudes?<BR>
><BR>
>It's unlikely to rain much in the center of brightside. But it will<BR>
>rain a lot a ways into darkside. There are varying opinions as to how<BR>
>much (if any) of an icecap there will be. Brightside gets watered by<BR>
>streams flowing into it from nightside. <BR>
<BR>
Depending on how many oceans (or large bodies of water) there are on the brightside, and how prevailing wind patterns carry the moisture that builds up due to evaporation, it may be that rain will occur quite a ways into the brightside. <BR>
I would also not be surprised if there is an occasional rain in the hottest part of the bright side, caused by cyclical weather pattern changes pushing rain clouds to the hot pole.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that Terrain, especially mountains also changes weather patterns. <BR>
<BR>
Question: When a world is locked into a 1:1 ratio like this, does (or can) the shape change, ie a bulge form on the bright side?<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:38:53 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
>be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps...  However, things not worthy of mention can cut both <BR>
ways.  Perhaps, it is not worthy of mention simply because it is so <BR>
common or so unworthy of comment.  Cloning may be viewed as <BR>
somewhat unusual and perhaps a bit egocentric.  However artificial <BR>
wombs (which among other things were extensively used to mass <BR>
produce Solomani colonists during the wars against the Vilani) and <BR>
in vitro fertilization (perhaps involving combining the nuclei of two <BR>
sperm or egg cells) may be common enough to cause little <BR>
comment.  Think of how common and how little commented on in <BR>
vitro fertilization is now, and its only been around for 20 years.  <BR>
Sure, most noble may "do things the old fashion way", but in this <BR>
case, most may be only 60-70%.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:47:28 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
<BR>
john hamilton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> How do you translate TNE and T4 Psi-Powers into GURPS?<BR>
> While there are many conversions for Attributes and<BR>
> Skills,there are no one for Psi.<BR>
<BR>
If you're converting TNE/T4 characters with psionics to GT, I would do<BR>
it the same way I converted some of my HG designs to T4/FF&S2.  Go with<BR>
the nearest functional equivalent, and don't worry about the point cost.<BR>
<BR>
GURPS Basic 3d Edition has reasonable psi rules.  However, if psi powers<BR>
will play a major role in your campaign, you probably will want the<BR>
GURPS Psionics book.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:42:12 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
>And the fact that to get any *advantage* out of [jump-6 X-boats], you'd have<BR>
>to redraw the *entire* X-boat network. <BR>
<BR>
That's simply not true. Just isntalling three or four jump-6 'spokes' in the<BR>
network will allow communication time to improve dramatically. You can have<BR>
a single X-boat per week and as long as the destination is more than 4<BR>
parsecs away, you'll beat any jump-4 connection with hourly departures.<BR>
<BR>
>Operating J6 X-boats one anything less than a J5 link is a *waste*.<BR>
 <BR>
So you don't operate them on J4- links. If astrography forces you to have a<BR>
less-than-jump-6 link in the chain, you operate jump-4 X-boats on that link<BR>
in the chain.<BR>
<BR>
>Now take a look and see how few of the existing nodes on the J4 net are<BR>
>on your J6 net. And consider that every single world that winds up no<BR>
>longer being a node is going to hate your guts. <BR>
<BR>
Well, all the sector and sub-sector capitals and any high-population world<BR>
with a Class A starport would be on any Jump-6 X-boat network _I_ worked<BR>
out, so I don't think I'd have to worry too much about the rest. After all,<BR>
if they are too insignificant to rate a node of their own, how much trouble<BR>
can they be? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:45:06 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > This is a universe, where many different species can live in<BR>
> > harmony.<BR>
> <BR>
> ...like the Vilani and Zhodani.<BR>
<BR>
Species, not cultures.  The Ael Yael, Virushi, Newts, and various <BR>
species and sub-species of humaniti seem to get along fairly well, <BR>
as long as they are all Imperial citizens.  Conflicts are mostly <BR>
cultural and not racial, a state which resembles the Classical world <BR>
much more than our own.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:49:25 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > [snip] If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
> > you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes [snip]<BR>
> <BR>
> Now take a look and see how few of the existing nodes on the J4 net are<BR>
> on your J6 net. And consider that every single world that winds up no<BR>
> longer being a node is going to hate your guts. <BR>
<BR>
Sorry, Leonard, I don't follow you here. IMO, a new J-6 network would<BR>
likely use many of the same nodes as the J-4 net. You still want to <BR>
serve as many worlds as possible, so you're going to use J-2 scouts<BR>
and J-4 Xboats (both very cheap to procure and operate) for the "leaf<BR>
nodes" in the network; it's just over the long hauls of 10+ parsecs<BR>
that you'll push the traffic onto the "backbone" of J-6 links. <BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure it's canonical that the Imperial Xboat network uses<BR>
Scout/Couriers to serve leaf nodes 1 and 2 parsecs off of the <BR>
main routes, yes? <BR>
<BR>
And for most configurations of systems that are 7 or 8 parsecs <BR>
apart, there's no difference between a J-4 courier and a J-6 <BR>
courier - it's two weeks either way. <BR>
<BR>
Once you're talking about *sectors* of distance, then you're getting <BR>
into *months* of intelligence advantage, and that's clearly valuable <BR>
- -- look, I'm using asterisks again!<BR>
<BR>
Additionally, since (I thought we were) talking about a privately <BR>
owned corporate network supplementing the existing Imperial J-4 <BR>
network, what's to hate? Even if ignored by any given J-6 net, a <BR>
world has the same connectivity it always did.<BR>
<BR>
> You are proposing the equivalent of moving *all* (or almost all) the<BR>
> major airports on Earth to small towns.<BR>
<BR>
Nope, just building *new* airports in the small towns. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:29:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Ilelish (was: TNS 83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> [On a lesbian Empress]<BR>
><BR>
> While I agree that Terran mores could have changed a lot,<BR>
> a hereditary system is going to tend to develop against<BR>
> seeing homosexuality as equally acceptable, esp. in those<BR>
> who need to produce heirs (or at least against complete<BR>
> homosexuality, bi might be OK for lovers on the side).<BR>
<BR>
Actually, as long as you can produce an heir, I can see them not being<BR>
all that worried about whether you had to resort to arificial<BR>
insemination, or merely think of your (same sex) lover while "doing<BR>
your duty" to produce an heir.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, back in Victorian times the woman wasn't supposed to enjoy it, it<BR>
was just her "duty". So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
that strange?<BR>
<BR>
Remember, "gay" does *not* mean that you *can't* perform with members<BR>
of the opposite sex. Just that you'd really rather do it with members<BR>
of your own sex. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:42:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>>Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
>>>situation in a Striker game?<BR>
><BR>
>>Haarumpppphh.. cough cough ACQ cough...<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm... I was envisioning the Israeli approach to handling<BR>
> Lebanese entrenched in skyscrapers: howitzers as direct fire<BR>
> weapons (higher upward angle than tanks), hence Striker as a<BR>
> system.  Can ACQ cover this situation?  <BR>
<BR>
Skyscrapers make *really* bad fortifications. <BR>
<BR>
I'm also reminded of the comment in one of the classic "Willie and<BR>
Joe"(?) cartoons by Bill Maudlin. The two of them are looking at a tank<BR>
and one of them says something along the lines of "a foxhole that calls<BR>
that much attention to itself ain't gonna last long..."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 03:05:06 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-boat routes are jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Is there any canonical information that states that megacorps <BR>
>*don't* use J-6 couriers at all? Does the Imperium actually have a <BR>
>monopoly on J-6 drives? <BR>
<BR>
Well, it is sort of implied by the bit of the Rebellion storyline where<BR>
Norris, seemingly alone of all people behind the Claw, gets advance notice<BR>
of Strephon's death and uses this grace period to fake his appointment as<BR>
Archduke of Deneb. Unfortunately that story has more holes than a colander<BR>
(IMO anyway):<BR>
<BR>
1) Norris is a fairly junior subsector duke. If he gets the news, at least<BR>
   20 other dukes gets it too.<BR>
2) The Imperial Navy canonically use jump-6 couriers. Regardless of who<BR>
   else gets it, several IN admirals gets the news. YMMV as to how far<BR>
   down the chain the news gets. Individual system admirals, fleet<BR>
   admirals, or just sector admirals, but SOME do get it. And since the<BR>
   IN is under political supervision by the sector dukes, it is those<BR>
   admirals' DUTY to inform the sector dukes at the very least.<BR>
3) As you said, regardless of how fast the public gets its news, the<BR>
   megacorporate regional managers needs timely news and would have<BR>
   their own courier networks. Add another couple of dozen recipients of<BR>
   the advance news.<BR>
4) Managers of sector-wide companies would be just as interested in timely<BR>
   news and many would, IMO, either have private couriers of their own or,<BR>
   more likely, chip together to fund a commercial news network of their<BR>
   own.<BR>
5) Even if no one except Norris recieved advance news, everybody knows of<BR>
   the existence of jump-6 communication and would be able to work out<BR>
   that Norris could have had that advance notice. Once the news of<BR>
   Strephon's death do reach them, watch Delphine of Mora and the Duke of<BR>
   Deneb count backwards and get really, really, royally pissed off...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
>>you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes; <BR>
> <BR>
>...and depending on how YTU handles maintenance of high-tech ships, <BR>
>your way stations may all have to be on TL15 worlds, which may in <BR>
>turn keep you out of the non-core areas.<BR>
<BR>
Even the Spinward Marches have a number of TL15 worlds. A starship can<BR>
function for 10 months of the year on any route 12 parsecs or less from<BR>
a TL15 world and still jump to that world, get its yearly maintenance done<BR>
and be back on the route in the remaining 60 days. And that's allowing<BR>
for plenty of margin.<BR>
 <BR>
>How long has TL14 and TL15 been available to corps in the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
TL14 since 700 and TL15 since 1000.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:10:01 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Hans has something with his proposal of developing jump-six spokes within the <BR>
x-boat system.  I never thought of it before, but a good analogy for a more <BR>
efficient x-boat system is the present use of "hubs" within the network of <BR>
airline routes.  Such a system could quickly shoot messages between a <BR>
relatively small number (c. 4-6?) within each sector, where they could  then <BR>
be distributed by a slightly modified Jump-4 network.  It gains the benefits <BR>
of speed while retaining a productive use for the substantial capital <BR>
invested in the current system.  The introduction of the new & improved <BR>
x-boat system could provide for all sorts of adventure hooks for any referee <BR>
that wanted to drop it into his universe. <BR>
However, I tend to be a traditionalist and have no trouble accepting the <BR>
"traditional" x-boat network with all its inefficiencies.  It works, and the <BR>
less common jump six couriers (and secret Akerut couriers) are available for <BR>
official uses by the higher ups when they feel the need.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:54:44 -0500<BR>
From: Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, you wrote:<BR>
> Does anyone know the reason why our star charts have this funny 8 parsecs x<BR>
> 10 parsecs format? I would like to know both in-universe explanations and<BR>
> the True Story (which Loren can tell u?) of what took place back in the<BR>
> 70's at GDW.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
For our Universe:  8 x 10 fits nicely on one page of a LBB.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:43:01 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 5:38 PM -0800 3/21/00, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  >In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>  >normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>  >I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
>  >be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Perhaps...  However, things not worthy of mention can cut both<BR>
>ways.  Perhaps, it is not worthy of mention simply because it is so<BR>
>common or so unworthy of comment.  Cloning may be viewed as<BR>
>somewhat unusual and perhaps a bit egocentric.  However artificial<BR>
>wombs (which among other things were extensively used to mass<BR>
>produce Solomani colonists during the wars against the Vilani) and<BR>
>in vitro fertilization (perhaps involving combining the nuclei of two<BR>
>sperm or egg cells) may be common enough to cause little<BR>
>comment.  Think of how common and how little commented on in<BR>
>vitro fertilization is now, and its only been around for 20 years.<BR>
>Sure, most noble may "do things the old fashion way", but in this<BR>
>case, most may be only 60-70%.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, in fact the back presents doesn't mention it and then<BR>
with Norris, presents it as worth of mention.  The impression<BR>
is that it isn't usually done.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, cloning is generally seen as having a gee wiz factor<BR>
and the heirs described are always, again, except for Norris,<BR>
the product of a man an woman (are there references to nobles<BR>
marring to produce an heir?).<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:48:03 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>Hmm... I was envisioning the Israeli approach to handling<BR>
>Lebanese entrenched in skyscrapers: howitzers as direct fire<BR>
>weapons (higher upward angle than tanks), hence Striker as a<BR>
>system.  Can ACQ cover this situation?  <BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. I was paying too much attention to the Grand Princess<BR>
Archduchess thread here, on first read of the above I was wondering<BR>
why Lesbians were locked in combat with the IDF...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:08:52 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: GT: Starports<BR>
<BR>
    For those who haven't gotten (or haven't looked), be sure to pay special<BR>
attention to the picture on p. 27.<BR>
<BR>
    I was thinking "neat" until I read the actual words, at which time I<BR>
physically winced just because of what I've read in the short time I've been<BR>
on list.  I'll let someone else spoil the surprise...but Ohmygosh, are they<BR>
CANON now?  The end of the OTU must be near...repent...repent...<BR>
<BR>
    "Excuse me, sir, but there are four horsemen who want to have a word with<BR>
you, and one of them is a young girl with a PGMP..."<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:13:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> So, dark-skinned people in the Imperium still faces strong racial <BR>
>> prejudice in many worlds, and capitalists democracies are still <BR>
>> seen as the savior of humanity by most of the developed worlds?<BR>
><BR>
> In some places, yes.  On 11,000+ worlds, there will be quite a bit of <BR>
> cultural variation.  The "y'all not from here"/"y'all not like us" mentality <BR>
> is, unfortunately, ingrained quite deeply in the human psyche.  Take any <BR>
> single human/non-human trait or com<BR>
> bination thereof, and you will probably find a place where it is not liked <BR>
> or tolerated.<BR>
><BR>
>> The 3I is familiar, but it is *not* our culture, if nothing else, <BR>
>> hereditary nobles with real power are rather rare in most developed <BR>
>> nations.  I see homophobia as no more deep-rooted than the <BR>
>> (admittedly quite serious) prejudice against black-americans in the <BR>
>> US.  It seems not at all unreasonable to say that in the 3I both <BR>
>> problems are ancient conflicts known only to a few historians.     <BR>
><BR>
> In most places, quite probably, but not everywhere.  Almost certainly, <BR>
> within the Imperial law/culture, such racism/speciesism/etc *is* rare <BR>
> (excepting artificial being, of course).  <BR>
><BR>
> With conflict comes drama.<BR>
<BR>
I think that the "Imperial culture" such as it is, as opposed to<BR>
*planetary* cultures will have people taking pride in "not noticing"<BR>
the "barbaric" practices and "silly" ideas of the various planetary<BR>
cultures. To reduce conflict, Imperial Services and places like areas<BR>
inside the extrality line at a port and other such pieces of "imperial<BR>
territory" *have* to treat all cultures in the Imperium as being equal.<BR>
<BR>
So there may be traces of specist attitudes, but no proper gentleman or<BR>
lady will let those attitudes out around members of the species in<BR>
question, even if they do admit (in private) that they are rather<BR>
"backward" or whatever.<BR>
<BR>
This *is* like our current culture. We treat racial attitudes that way,<BR>
and *some* religious ones. The Imperium just does a better job of<BR>
living up to their public stance than we do. <BR>
<BR>
And psionics isn't covered. So, like child molesters, psis are "fair<BR>
game". <BR>
<BR>
Once you are outside the starport, among the folks who've never left<BR>
the planet, or who only did so once, because they *had* to, you'll find<BR>
prejudices all over the place. Most folks will be *certain* that the<BR>
way their planet (or nation in the case of balkanized worlds) does<BR>
things is the one true way, regardless of what info comes in from<BR>
off-world. <BR>
<BR>
The sole exceptions are likely to be folks the dominant culture doesn't<BR>
like. Anybody who rises above the local culture has probably found a<BR>
niche serving the Imperium somewhere!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:32:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: NNTP Headers of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>> Subject: Re: Stop the bashing and insults, please<BR>
>> The "Distribution" header line would come back into prominence:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> local:  restricted to the ISP<BR>
>> world:  restricted to the planet<BR>
>> system: restricted to the solar system (in case of far companions,<BR>
>>         they'd be excluded since it'd take a jump to get the stuff<BR>
>>         there fast enough)<BR>
>> subsector:<BR>
>> sector:<BR>
>> domain:<BR>
>> galactic: unrestricted<BR>
><BR>
> "This message may cost hundreds, if not <BR>
>  thousands of dollars to distribute.<BR>
>  Are you sure you want to do this?"<BR>
<BR>
Lord, it's been so long I'd forgotten about that old warning!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the reminder!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:27:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> "David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> While I agree that Terran mores could have changed a lot,<BR>
>> a hereditary system is going to tend to develop against<BR>
>> seeing homosexuality as equally acceptable, esp. in those<BR>
>> who need to produce heirs (or at least against complete<BR>
>> homosexuality, bi might be OK for lovers on the side).<BR>
><BR>
> not so sure about this...sure mores will have changed - and that<BR>
> includes hereditary mores. In a world with genetic engineering<BR>
> (canon: Jonkereen), cloning, and even cross-gender cloning (canon:<BR>
> Archduke Norris), I would think a test-tube baby made from the DNA of<BR>
> two homosexual parents would be a genetic child in every way - of<BR>
> both parents.<BR>
<BR>
> If any genetic material is truly needed from both genders - such<BR>
> material can be "Sterilized" of the donor's genetic markers and<BR>
> "imprinted" with one of the "parents" - thus the egg or sperm would<BR>
> simply be the vehicle of genetic delivery - not the delivery itself.<BR>
<BR>
If you want a female child, the two women have no problem. If you want<BR>
a male child, you take an X chromosome from one of them and convert it<BR>
to a Y. (which pretty much consists of dumping a bunch of groups, and<BR>
maybe modifying a few genes).<BR>
<BR>
If two men want a female child, You just take an X from each of them to<BR>
get the required XX pairing. If they want a male child, you take an X<BR>
from one and and a Y from the other to make the required XY pair. No<BR>
problem.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:35:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vs: Droyne Closers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> As in the folks in Zelazny's "A Night in the Lonesome October"? <BR>
<BR>
> Yes.<BR>
>  <BR>
>> I rather like that whole setup. And it wouldn't be *that* hard to port<BR>
>> to Traveller. Just have the Opener's and closers trying to identify the<BR>
>> appropriate dates and astronomical configurations on various worlds. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Of course, the *first* thing is determining whether or not there *is* a<BR>
>> potential "gate" on a world. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> PCs stumbling into the midst of all this are going to get *really*<BR>
>> puzzled! <BR>
>> <BR>
> Hey, that sounds like a perfect setting for an adventure. Now I just need <BR>
> some excuses to get the pc's involved without giving out the setup thats <BR>
> waiting...<BR>
<BR>
Have them hired to hand deliver a package of <needed component> to one<BR>
of the participants. Or carry one as a passenger. <BR>
<BR>
Then while they are hunting up a cargo, have the odd murders and<BR>
whatnot start. <BR>
<BR>
For extra points, have jump drives unable to jump to/from the system<BR>
from the <new moon equivalent> to the <full moon equivalent>. So once<BR>
things go active, the players are stuck on-world until the climax.<BR>
<BR>
> Gotta make something out of this.<BR>
<BR>
It'd be a nice Halloween adventure. Or maybe Walpurgisnacht?<BR>
<BR>
ps. I want to see the look on players faces the first time they are<BR>
snooping on someone between Midnite and 1 AM and get to hear the<BR>
familiar talking. :-)<BR>
<BR>
And if Jack is involved, will they jump to conclusions... <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:33:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Famille Spofulam stuff<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> G-d, these are hysterical.  I hope to hell and back that someone<BR>
> is collecting these.  The letter exchanges are great for input<BR>
> method editing (that is, editing the input method, usually in<BR>
> surprising and unplanned manners) - but the equipment itself, if<BR>
> in conformance with the relevant design systems, may actually be<BR>
> good stuff to stockpile (and throw at an unsuspecting party...).<BR>
<BR>
Riiight....<BR>
<BR>
"Ok, somebody needs to go for help while we hold the building. What<BR>
have we got for transport?"<BR>
<BR>
"A grav pogostick, and a rocket bike..."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:15:11 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/20/00 11:11 PM, Hans Rancke-Madsen rancke@diku.dk<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> No doubt they would, but I'm not about to post 6-8 closely written pages of<BR>
> copyrighted material.<BR>
<BR>
Oh. That /is/ a lot of text. I may want to get a copy of this issue if<BR>
possible, I hope it isn't too rare. Thanks for the info, I'll tell<BR>
Hypercleats he may want to do a different system like you suggest. If I do a<BR>
system, it will likely be Whanga, or some such ho-dunk backwater area. If<BR>
you find the article, maybe you could give the highlights? I would love the<BR>
map, if there is one.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2150<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2151<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: GT: Starports<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Tokay<BR>
Re: Lion in Winter<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2150<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2148<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Heirs<BR>
TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
Re: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2148<BR>
Re: Lion in Winter<BR>
Hi tech melee weapons (was Fencing Weapons)<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Next Meet April 15 - Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:18:21 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Starports<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:08:52   Stormhound wrote:<BR>
>    For those who haven't gotten (or haven't looked), be sure to pay special<BR>
>attention to the picture on p. 27.<BR>
><BR>
>    I was thinking "neat" until I read the actual words, at which time I<BR>
>physically winced just because of what I've read in the short time I've been<BR>
>on list.  I'll let someone else spoil the surprise...<BR>
<BR>
Oh go on... don't hold me in suspense! Spoil the surprise!<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:28:24 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:21:58, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:25 PM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
> >Any chance we'll see these published in some form? :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Who knows? If we get enough good entries, we might be able to nudge Dom and<BR>
> Andy.<BR>
> <BR>
> What would be nice is if we could do a "pilot's guide to the *blank*<BR>
> subsector." book.<BR>
<BR>
Considering how generic most BITS books are, creating something<BR>
"sector-specific" might not be the wisest choice.  Besides, we've already<BR>
got GURPS' BTC to compete with.  We also know that some TMLers don't<BR>
particularly like worlds described in so much detail and prefer something<BR>
along the lines of the upcoming "Solomani Rim" GURPS sourcebook (if the<BR>
rumours are accurate).<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, if we were to leave out the names of the worlds covered, it might<BR>
work.  A small note near the top of each section might include something<BR>
like "modeled after Regina/Regina" or something to that effect.  IOW, the<BR>
worlds would be "plug & play" and *also* be modeled after actual Spinward<BR>
Marches worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, publishing something like this as a BITS product might be<BR>
difficult.  The goal of the Spinward Marches Land Grab (SMLG) is to detail<BR>
individual worlds as much as possible.  Doing so would require much space<BR>
in a 48-56 page book, limiting the number of worlds covered to perhaps a<BR>
dozen or so at most.  We could, however, call it "101 Worlds" or "101 Star<BR>
Systems" and produce *numbered volumes* as the data is compiled.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Three out of five people aren't the other two.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:38:42 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Tokay<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-21 10:00:53 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 Riiight. "Tokaj" is almost certainly pronounced "toe-kay". And I seem<BR>
 to recall "Tokay" being a favorite of winos, because it was *cheap* and<BR>
 moderately strong. Anybody have any idea what "Eszencia" and "Hegyalja"<BR>
 mean? I smell an in-joke... >><BR>
<BR>
Well, Tokay can be made from Muskat grapes as well as Furmint, but the last <BR>
quote I got on a bottle of Tokaj Eszencia was $175, not exactly in the *wino* <BR>
class, unless winos are wealthier than I remember. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:38:43 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Lion in Winter<BR>
<BR>
<< > ObMovies: See "The Lion in Winter" for hints of what<BR>
 > people will do for a small portion of one planet, to<BR>
 > say nothing of rule over 11,000+ planets. >><BR>
<BR>
GREAT film. <BR>
<BR>
One of many good lines: "Of course he has a knife -- we've all got knives, <BR>
it's 1183 and we're barbarians!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:37:21 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2150<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> >Hmm... I was envisioning the Israeli approach to handling<BR>
> >Lebanese entrenched in skyscrapers: howitzers as direct fire<BR>
> >weapons (higher upward angle than tanks), hence Striker as a<BR>
> >system.  Can ACQ cover this situation?  <BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm. I was paying too much attention to the Grand Princess<BR>
> Archduchess thread here, on first read of the above I was wondering<BR>
> why Lesbians were locked in combat with the IDF...<BR>
<BR>
Walt gets a 2.0 laugh-near-civilians from me, with "Russell makes an <BR>
attractive snorting noise" bonus.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:53:03 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2148<BR>
<BR>
<< Does anyone know if Normal, Illinois had a tradition of mayoral <BR>
 succession by assassination?  >><BR>
<BR>
Not a single mayor took office by killing the previous mayor. Mayors were <BR>
chosen by thumb-wrestling, best two out of three.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:00:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/21/00 2:02 PM, Leonard Erickson<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Ants are supposed to be pretty good.<BR>
<BR>
Taste like lemons. Not bad, but hard to fill up on. Some species taste<BR>
awful, but the black pine ants in the sierra nevada are the ones I am<BR>
familier with. Sugar ant smell bad enough I've never tried them, harvester<BR>
ants and carpenter ants bite back! There are some moths that taste like<BR>
almonds, but others are very bitter. The lighter colored moths usually taste<BR>
better. I have heard of large spiders being eaten much like crab is, crack<BR>
open the legs and pull out this stringy sweet meat.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:00:29 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heirs<BR>
<BR>
<< In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
 normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
 I don't have) worth specific mention.   >><BR>
<BR>
There's a lot of stuff we didn't mention, and not all of it was because we <BR>
didn't think it was important. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:17:31 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:25:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
>From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
>Subject: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
><BR>
>How do you translate TNE and T4 Psi-Powers into GURPS?<BR>
>While there are many conversions for Attributes and<BR>
>Skills,there are no one for Psi.<BR>
<BR>
Using GURPS Psionics can get way out of reasonable prices right quick;<BR>
Traveller PSI scores of 5-7 are way more powerful than any REASONABLE<BR>
100point character can afford (Although, in some cases, like<BR>
one-trick-ponis, it might be the ONLY thing they have going...).<BR>
<BR>
I have theorized, however, that GURPS Magic is really far better a way to<BR>
do it:<BR>
====----====----====----====----====----====<BR>
A conversion for Traveller Psionics to GT Using G Magic<BR>
<BR>
Treat having a PSR as a level of Magery. PSR >5 as Magery 2. PSR > 10 as<BR>
Magery 3<BR>
<BR>
Skill levels convert into specific abilities. Based upon CT's and  MT's<BR>
psionics, the following would be good ways to go; ignore all requirements,<BR>
except for magery and other spells as listed below.<BR>
<BR>
=Telepathy=<BR>
Sense Life (M1)<BR>
Sense Emotion (M1, Sense Life)<BR>
Mind Reading (M2, Sense Emotion)<BR>
Mind Sending (M1, Sense Life)<BR>
Hide Thoughts (M1)<BR>
Telepathy (M2, Mind Reading, Mind Sending)<BR>
Mind Search (m3, Telepathy)<BR>
Stun (M3, Telepathy)<BR>
Frostbite (M3, Mind Search)<BR>
<BR>
=Teleport=<BR>
Teleport (M1)<BR>
Blink (M3, Teleport)<BR>
Teleport Other (M2, Teleport)<BR>
<BR>
=Telekinesis=<BR>
Apportation (m1)<BR>
Manipulate (m1, Apportation)<BR>
Locksmith (M1, Manipulate)<BR>
Poltergeist (M2, Manipulate)<BR>
Levitation (M3, Manipulate)<BR>
Flight (M3, Levitate)<BR>
Winged Knife (M2, Poltergeist)<BR>
<BR>
=Clairavoyance=<BR>
Detect Life (m1)<BR>
Invisible Wizard Eye (M1, Detect Life)<BR>
Invisible Wizard Ear (m1 , Detect Life)<BR>
Nightvision (M1 , Detect Life)<BR>
Darkvision (M1, nightvision)<BR>
Seeker (M2, Detect Life)<BR>
Trace (M2, Seeker)<BR>
<BR>
=Awareness=<BR>
Dexterity (M1)<BR>
Might (M1)<BR>
Vigor (M1)<BR>
Resist Pain (M1)<BR>
Resist Cold (M1, Resist Pain)<BR>
Resist Fire (M1, Resist Pain)<BR>
Restoration (M1, Resist Pain, and Vigor or Neutralize Poison)<BR>
Regeneration (M2, Restoration)<BR>
Halt Aging (M3, Regeneration, Suspended Animation)<BR>
Suspended Animation -self only- (M1, Alarm)<BR>
Neutralize Poison -self only- (M1)<BR>
Tell Time (m1)<BR>
Alarm (M1, Tell Time)<BR>
<BR>
=Open Spells=<BR>
Recover Strength (M2)<BR>
Create Powerstone (M3, Charge Powerstone)<BR>
Charge Powerstone (M1)<BR>
====----====----====----====----====----====<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:55:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
According to the editorial this is an actual wine that comes from Turkey.<BR>
something about fungus on grapes. or something and it is kinda expensive but<BR>
not so much so that Loren was unable to order a few bottles for his personal<BR>
consumption.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com' <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:08 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Wines of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>It's actual wine.  LKW did an editorial on it in the GT JTAS just a couple<BR>
>weeks ago.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:30:36 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I think that the "Imperial culture" such as it is, as opposed to<BR>
> *planetary* cultures will have people taking pride in "not noticing"<BR>
> the "barbaric" practices and "silly" ideas of the various planetary<BR>
> cultures. To reduce conflict, Imperial Services and places like areas<BR>
> inside the extrality line at a port and other such pieces of "imperial<BR>
> territory" *have* to treat all cultures in the Imperium as being equal.<BR>
<BR>
A good way to think of it would be the attitude of the British Empire before<BR>
the Opium Wars and before they started to see the (Eurasian) Indian culture<BR>
as inferior. There was a period that interest in the world at large among<BR>
the British populace was pretty high.<BR>
<BR>
It's easy to forget in the new era of "How the West Was Wrong".<BR>
<BR>
> So there may be traces of specist attitudes, but no proper gentleman<BR>
> or lady will let those attitudes out around members of the species in<BR>
> question, even if they do admit (in private) that they are rather<BR>
> "backward" or whatever.<BR>
<BR>
Which fits in really well with the aristocratic nature of Imperial culture.<BR>
Remember, at one time aristocracy meant "rule by the best".<BR>
<BR>
Another option is to have different attitudes in the various domains and<BR>
sectors of the Imperium. It would take a good deal of work, but would be<BR>
pretty neat if the players in your campaign might find themselves in a<BR>
number of different areas.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial Culture would likely vary. I would think that the "Imperial<BR>
attitude" in the Spinward Marches would likely be very different than in<BR>
Core or Daibei, for example.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:37:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2148<BR>
<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><< Does anyone know if Normal, Illinois had a tradition of mayoral<BR>
> succession by assassination?  >><BR>
><BR>
>Not a single mayor took office by killing the previous mayor. Mayors were<BR>
>chosen by thumb-wrestling, best two out of three.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Do not listen to LKW, I grew up in Decatur, IL & I have the real drek on<BR>
Normal, IL.  It seems the people who really ran the show were two gentlemen<BR>
named Loren K. Wisemen & Marc Miller, but that is all I can say about that<BR>
subject, as the men with my medication are here.<BR>
    Hello, Loren & Marc, is it the blue or pink pill this time?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:44:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lion in Winter<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/21/00 7:38 PM, GDWGAMES@aol.com GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> GREAT film. <BR>
<BR>
An absolute classic. Whoever has not seen it, do so *soon*!<BR>
<BR>
> One of many good lines: "Of course he has a knife -- we've all got knives,<BR>
> it's 1183 and we're barbarians!"<BR>
<BR>
One of my faves: "I could peel you you like a pear, and God Himself would<BR>
call it justice!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:03:10 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Hi tech melee weapons (was Fencing Weapons)<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 2000 at 00:41 (GMT -0800), sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
>Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
>3) Some form of plasma-blade is likely also possible, but it would <BR>
>be heavy enough, and hot enough that the user would need to be <BR>
>wearing battle dress.  If this weapon could be used with cutlass <BR>
>skill, it might be the weapon of choice for particularly gonzo <BR>
>marines.  <BR>
<BR>
	IMTU, the Imperial Marines don't default to cutlass skill.  Their melee<BR>
weapon of choice has been a battle axe for as long as they have been facing<BR>
opponents in modern armor.  I pondered making it bayonet, but the simple<BR>
utility of the weapon didn't compensate for its low penetration.<BR>
Particularly gonzo Marines might prefer a two-handed battle axe.  Also<BR>
contemplated mauls, but I think modern armors would be too successful<BR>
against them.  Plus it would have forced the addition of noncanonical<BR>
material to cover mauls.  I don't like to take my heresies that far.  :-><BR>
<BR>
	Battle axes are also useful for going through interior doors and walls in<BR>
boarding actions.  Not to mention the walls of light armored vehicles when<BR>
facing low and middle tech aborigines (TL 6 through say TL 11).  Battle<BR>
axes seem most useful when fighting in a vacuum or hostile atmosphere where<BR>
all you have to do is breach your opponent's armor and nature does the<BR>
rest.  Expect to see them in boarding actions, even though boarding actions<BR>
should only rarely make sense, IMTU the players often seem to be around on<BR>
the rare occasions they do happen.  The fun thing in boarding actions is<BR>
trying to swing a melee weapon in zero grav.  Most Marines who actually<BR>
employ their battle axe in a boarding action probably end up looking and<BR>
feeling a bit silly.  Only the Marines with Zero-G or Environment Combat<BR>
skill are going to be very effective.  I impose large negative DMs on melee<BR>
in zero grav, and then let appropriate skills offset most or even all of<BR>
it.  A squad of shipboard Marines will make a really huge difference in a<BR>
boarding action, since they will have not only the armor, but the skills to<BR>
fight effectively in zero grav.  Assuming they have battle dress,<BR>
especially.  But, I gather Every Marine In Battle Dress is a thread that<BR>
was already beaten to death.  Sorry I missed it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	High tech improvements on the battle axe would probably include supersharp<BR>
edges created with bonded superdense or the like.  This would require a<BR>
good sheath and careful handling when out of the sheath.<BR>
<BR>
	Some type of one- or two-handed weapon that is tipped with a shaped charge<BR>
is a thought, too.  Perhaps as an accessory fitting for the end of a rifle.<BR>
 Slap the face of the tip against the enemy's armor, and it contact<BR>
detonates a charge shaped to create a penetration or some evil spalling.<BR>
Higher tech variations might use energy blasts of various kinds instead of<BR>
explosives.  This seems difficult to manage, at the least, though.<BR>
<BR>
	High tech, supersharp edges, might make other sharp weapons feasible for<BR>
slicing through vacc suits, combat armor, and battle dress.  But the batle<BR>
axe is always going to have superior penetration to the others.  Does<BR>
anyone else have the opinion that a monomolecular filament edge would<BR>
almost require an artificial gravity field to keep it attached and aligned<BR>
with the weapon properly?  Otherwise it tends to damage the other<BR>
components of the weapon it is part of.<BR>
<BR>
	Hmm, I will have to write up penetration modifiers for high tech versions<BR>
of various weapons.  Does anyone have any hard scientific basis for how<BR>
much increased penetration a monomolecular filament edge would give a<BR>
battle axe, sword, knife, whatever?  I will probably just go with +1<BR>
penetration at TL 12 and +2 at TL 14 or 15.  A more complex but still<BR>
oversimplified system would be to compare TL of the edged weapon to the<BR>
defending armor, and modify normal penetration value based on the<BR>
difference.  Not worth the extra game mechanics, IMHO, too cumbersome for<BR>
players in combat.  Okay, thing to do is give penetration modifier each<BR>
time a new material becomes available, and give the same penetration<BR>
modifier to the armor and the weapon made using that material.  Example:<BR>
bonded superdense battle axe has +3 penetration above and beyond normal<BR>
battle axe, and battle dress of the same tech level (thus presumably also<BR>
of bonded superdense construction) also has +3 versus penetration.  Net<BR>
result, no penetration modifier.  If the armor was only composite laminate,<BR>
that might have a +1 penetration modifier, and a net of +2 penetration for<BR>
the attacking battle axe.  This still seems too cumbersome, or requires too<BR>
many scattered little equipment list edits, though.  Also, at least some of<BR>
the work of these modifiers is already incorporated in the existing rules.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
(Going to sleep now and will dream of monomolecular filament weedwhackers<BR>
and chainsaws wielded by Marines in battle dress while clearing a corridor<BR>
of enemy crewmen.  Wonder if Famille Spofulam sells them already?)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:21:08 -0800<BR>
From: Justice Hypercleats <eris@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Taken so far are?<BR>
<BR>
Heya/Regina                      Doug Berry<BR>
Ylaven/Lanth                     Paul Campbell<BR>
Mongo/Jewell                   Glenn Goffin<BR>
Esalin/Jewell                      Luther Martin<BR>
Wonstar/Five Sisters     Micheal Houghton<BR>
Rorise/Mora                      AB (maybe?)<BR>
Aster/Glisten                      AB<BR>
L'oeil d'Dieu                       Robert O'Connor<BR>
Yori/Regina                        Peter Trevor<BR>
Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor      Volker Greimann<BR>
Tavonni/Vilis                      David Jaques-Watson<BR>
<BR>
Is this list up somewhere? Am I missing anyone? I added David's claim for<BR>
Tavonni as I saw no earlier claim, and AB's tentative claim for Rorise.(BZA)<BR>
<BR>
I had earlier claimed Glisten, but I see that there is already *very* much<BR>
information detailing this major system out there.  So I would like to<BR>
withdraw my rather redundant bid for Glisten and take up the cause of a<BR>
lesser-known system that may benefit more from being detailed. Therefore, I<BR>
announce my claim on 875-496/Five Sisters (a.k.a. Prince Edward) -- assuming<BR>
that it has not already been taken. (JH)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:22:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
> have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
> published Traveller universe.<BR>
<BR>
Not really. For the most part, the culture of the Imperium hasn't detailed<BR>
very far beyond the nobility and a couple of different practices here and<BR>
there.<BR>
<BR>
> No doubt nearly everything is an established cultural icon on one of<BR>
> the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial culture as a whole is based on our<BR>
> own, late 20th century culture because it has to be.<BR>
<BR>
No, it's not. The mechanical aspects of the Third Imperium are vastly<BR>
different from the late 20th century. First and foremost, the structure of<BR>
the government of the Imperium is strongly aristocratic, and in a few<BR>
sources (The Traveller Book stands out) it's strongly implied that the<BR>
nobles have a strong honor code and that for the most part they rule fairly.<BR>
<BR>
This is really alien to modern[1] minds, and it hints at quite a few other<BR>
underlying changes in the way certain concepts are viewed. It would be very<BR>
difficult to play this concept "right", either as a player or a GM. That's<BR>
the one mechanical aspect which is detailed to some extent, and it's a real<BR>
doozie.<BR>
<BR>
[1] "Modern" here means "post-Enlightenment", not simply contemporary.<BR>
<BR>
> We have no reasonable chance of accurately predicting the cultural<BR>
> values of an insterstellar society 3,000 years in our future,<BR>
<BR>
Do you really think that the Third Imperium is a plausible future? Do you<BR>
think it's accurate? Sci-fi tends to go out of date 5 or 10 years after<BR>
publication. At twenty, the Third Imperium looks, in many ways, positively<BR>
archaic already.<BR>
<BR>
> so the authors of Traveller chose to project a familiar culture onto the<BR>
> 3I in order to better contrast the weird cultures of individual worlds.<BR>
<BR>
It always looked, to me at least, that the philosophy behind Traveller was<BR>
one in which the stuff that was happening on the worlds of the Imperium was<BR>
thought to be much more interesting than what was going on "between the<BR>
stars".<BR>
<BR>
I remember Marc Miller commenting to the effect that adventures take place<BR>
between the time the party lands on a planet and takes off.<BR>
<BR>
> This gives the players a familiar setting to play in and yet explore<BR>
> alien cultures. Given this background, a lesbian Empress would<BR>
> provoke the same general reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a<BR>
> lesbian world leader would today. In other words, a scandal.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe, maybe not. One could argue that "lesbianism" is a social construct<BR>
peculiar to Western modernity and that it simply doesn't exist in the<BR>
Imperium. Classification based on sexual orientation (or preference,<BR>
depending on scientific evidence or the prevailing view) might be seen as<BR>
completely alien. Following from that, a romantic relationship between two<BR>
women might not raise any eyebrows at all among the aristocracy.<BR>
<BR>
However, it's possible that even in an egalitarian society there are certain<BR>
social roles expected or required of different genders. A romantic<BR>
relationship between two women may not be scandalous in and of itself, but<BR>
if Ciencia were to start acting in a masculine fashion, the nobles of the<BR>
Imperium might cry bloody murder.<BR>
<BR>
These two examples are based on what the situation seems to have been in<BR>
various times and places in ancient Greece, at least with respect to males.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, it's possible that the relationship might be seen as<BR>
scandalous only if one of the women involved were to *not* act in a fashion<BR>
seen as "masculine". This example is based on the views of some northwestern<BR>
American Indian societies.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, such situations might only be acceptable for one gender or<BR>
another. In that case, it would only be scandalous if relationships between<BR>
males were seen as acceptable.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, if one were to say that homosexuality is not a social<BR>
construct, or such a construct exists in the Third Imperium, then adopting<BR>
such a lifestyle might be a fad among the aristocracrats. There was a period<BR>
in the 17th or 18th century where this was the case among French<BR>
aristocrats, for example. Not only would a homosexual relationship involving<BR>
two nobles be acceptable, it might raise their relative status.<BR>
<BR>
It's possible that the Imperial aristocracy, or influential segments, are<BR>
extremely hedonistic. A monogamous relationship, whether it is homosexual or<BR>
heterosexual, might be scandalous.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, it's also possible that such a relationship could be scandalous,<BR>
but only mildly so. All of the aristocrats know what's going on, but nobody<BR>
talks about it in public, and out of respect for the institution of<BR>
aristocrats, the news media downplays it. Everybody *knows*, and it might be<BR>
hot gossip, but nothing more. The "party line" (so to speak) might be that<BR>
they are simply very close friends.<BR>
<BR>
I don't see why one has to take a late 20th century view of any aspect in<BR>
the situation, and there are a lot of aspects.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:28:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>>Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
>>>situation in a Striker game?<BR>
<BR>
>>Haarumpppphh.. cough cough ACQ cough...<BR>
<BR>
If I could get...cough, cough, ACQ, cough...I would! <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:44:11 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Next Meet April 15 - Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> How about a scenario involving an Imperial insertion into a Terran city, say<BR>
> from the Invasion Earth setting. So that both sides are limited to lighter<BR>
...<BR>
> If April and May are dedicated to Battle Rider, we could try such a scenario<BR>
> in the Summer.On the other hand, since we are all probably rusty on the game<BR>
> mechanics, maybe we should try an easier scenario first.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thoughts?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like the next project.  <BR>
<BR>
The next meeting date is April 15 for "Battle Rider."  We will set the<BR>
May meet date then.  June and July can be "Striker."  Any preferences<BR>
for "Striker" or "Striker 2?"<BR>
<BR>
If anyone needs directions to the meet email me.<BR>
Kristian<BR>
travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:52:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> And again, I bet the anthro books have examples of stuff that'd<BR>
> *really* bewilder players. Some, like that society of paranoids (I<BR>
> can't find the saved file with the name of the tribe dammit!) probably<BR>
> can't above very low TLs. Others wouldn't have that much trouble.<BR>
<BR>
I pity the poor players who have a GM with a strong background in<BR>
anthropology.<BR>
<BR>
I really, really pity them. :)<BR>
<BR>
> Here are a few more possibilities:<BR>
><BR>
> 1. Neo-Nazis found the "Fourth Reich" somewhere. (Give the<BR>
> relatively low cost of interstellar travel in Traveller, I'd consider this<BR>
> one just about a "given")<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but that one's so played out. Nazis are way to easy to hate.<BR>
Personally, I'd advise going back to the Eugenics movement and pulling out<BR>
some ideas that the Nazis *didn't* originate, or didn't put into use. For<BR>
example, I.Q. tests are required for all citizens. Mandatory sterilization<BR>
is required for all people below a certain I.Q., and only certain jobs are<BR>
open to them. People below another level are simply worked to death or<BR>
exterminated.<BR>
<BR>
This isn't too far off the trend that America, and to some extent Britain<BR>
and France were on until the horrors of Nazi Germany were revealed.<BR>
<BR>
> 2. Pick a fallen empire or government, *any* empire or government.<BR>
>    *Somebody* will try to revive it. For instance, there's this planet<BR>
>    based on the Confederate States of America...<BR>
<BR>
Or a GM could try to dig up governments which never quite made the grade.<BR>
The Technocracy movement (the capital T is intentional) is one example. How<BR>
about a Fourierist <sp?> planet?<BR>
<BR>
> 3. I expect to see several *extreme* matriarchies and equally<BR>
> extreme patriarchies. As well as attempts at "single sex" worlds like<BR>
>  Anderson's "Virgin Planet" or Bujold's Athos.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to *really* frighten an all-male, or largely male, party build a<BR>
society such as the one that Valerie Solanos outlines in her SCUM Manifesto.<BR>
Scary. Kind of like Sparta, only the Helots are male. Of course, the<BR>
Imperium might not look favorable on such a world (or Empire) but there<BR>
*are* a lot of Client States out there.<BR>
<BR>
> And even if the group *does* "read the fine print" in the Library Data<BR>
> for the world, and recruit some extra (female) crew, what do they do<BR>
> with the displaced male crew? And are the females setting them up<BR>
> for a hijacking?<BR>
<BR>
A really interesting idea, Leonard. I may hijack it myself.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:32:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: "Curtis Phillips" <phillips@saber.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Well, since you asked...<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:49:02 -0500 (EST), Traveller-digest wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
<BR>
"Thousand year eggs?"  Love them!  Just chinese-style pickled eggs<BR>
cured in tea, salt, and vinegar.  <BR>
<BR>
>and Jens Rydholm wrote in reply:<BR>
>Or cooked bird nests?<BR>
<BR>
Hey, bird's nest soup IS a true delicacy.  If you've got a weak<BR>
stomach, just try to forget it's made out of cave-swift spit.<BR>
<BR>
>Boiled shark fins?<BR>
<BR>
In general, shark is the most flavourful of fish, and therefore can<BR>
make a really  good soup stock.  <BR>
<BR>
>Cooked dog?<BR>
<BR>
Spicy and with black bean sauce please.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Raw fish?<BR>
<BR>
Really a Japanese thing, but sashimi is delicious if the fish is really<BR>
fresh.  Just remember to check the credentials of the chef if you're<BR>
going to try fugu (pufferfish).  Isn't there a cook's koan that says<BR>
something like "Anyone who eats fugu is a fool and anyone who won't eat<BR>
fugu is also a fool"?<BR>
<BR>
>Raw, *living*, slimy things in shells?   (oysters)<BR>
<BR>
Love 'em!  The best come from Oregon or South Island New Zealand.  OK<BR>
who's been to Invercargill?  Best bluff oysters on this planet.<BR>
<BR>
>/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
            Curtis Phillips<BR>
<BR>
Winery & Vineyard Consultant<BR>
           (805) 886-8941<BR>
           (805) 348-9220<BR>
     phillips@saber.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2151<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2152</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2152<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Tokay<BR>
Re: Heirs...<BR>
Re: Greek relationships [Anatomically Explicit]<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Alien thoughts<BR>
J Drive was Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
Jump Governor<BR>
Re: Greek relationships  <BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Landgrab still on?<BR>
The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
RE: Greek relationships [Anatomically Explicit]<BR>
RE: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:40:33 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tokay<BR>
<BR>
Martha Steward and here wine-expert buddies pronounce it<BR>
"toe-kai", rhymes with "pie".  (Don't ask why I happened to<BR>
see it).<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:54:55 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Heirs...<BR>
<BR>
For many reasons outside of this topic alone, I had hoped right from the LBB<BR>
and JTAS days that this was an official stance of the designers and<BR>
producers ("For heaven sakes!  How can we think of every eventuality!!!???<BR>
Arrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).  I have had to explain to players<BR>
who just don't understand a concept that because they talk about "x" doesn't<BR>
mean "y" didn't work just fine too (for their understanding of a game<BR>
concept)...<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for making THAT official... and answering one of the questions of<BR>
this thread  ;^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 2:00 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Heirs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> << In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>  normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>  I don't have) worth specific mention.   >><BR>
><BR>
> There's a lot of stuff we didn't mention, and not all of it was because we<BR>
> didn't think it was important.<BR>
><BR>
> LKW<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:59:28 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships [Anatomically Explicit]<BR>
<BR>
>> 4. Unpublishable but fun. Various "sexual" philosophies expressed<BR>
>>    planetwide. Everything from the "Playboy Philosophy" to to a BDSM<BR>
>>    paradise out of some of the better written BDSM fiction (and yes,<BR>
>>    the Imperium has laws against slavery, but they are easy enough to<BR>
>>    get around. Either the slaves are free leave any time they want to,<BR>
>>    or they are indentured servants. Either will do. Or maybe they are<BR>
>>    criminals.)<BR>
<BR>
In one game I ran, I randomly generated a strage set of results:<BR>
Unusual Meeting Custom - All<BR>
Unusual sexual custom - All.<BR>
No racial Discrimination.<BR>
<BR>
The world was in the islands, had a mod pop (on the low end of mod), and<BR>
was a garden world... so I figured it had to be recovering from some<BR>
blight. The two customs got mingled:<BR>
	Upon introduction, two persons who've just met are socially<BR>
required to engage in sexual congress. Very very messy in some cases...<BR>
like with a virush.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, it has been established that Virush are quite under-endowed amongst<BR>
their males; they simply don't actually achieve coitus. Instead, the<BR>
produce a high-pressure stream, and "aim" for hetero-sexual congress<BR>
intended to impregnate. Generally rump to rump... and they produce a<BR>
low-concentration high-volume ejaculate. Also, this makes patting a virush<BR>
on the rump rather the erotic act.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:16:11 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
>Taken so far are?<BR>
><BR>
>Heya/Regina                      Doug Berry<BR>
>Ylaven/Lanth                     Paul Campbell<BR>
>Mongo/Jewell                   Glenn Goffin<BR>
>Esalin/Jewell                      Luther Martin<BR>
>Wonstar/Five Sisters     Micheal Houghton<BR>
>Rorise/Mora                      AB (maybe?)<BR>
>Aster/Glisten                      AB<BR>
>L'oeil d'Dieu                       Robert O'Connor<BR>
>Yori/Regina                        Peter Trevor<BR>
>Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor      Volker Greimann<BR>
>Tavonni/Vilis                      David Jaques-Watson<BR>
<BR>
I've claimed Wypoc/Lanth (SM 2011)... but people seem to have missed it.<BR>
<BR>
>Is this list up somewhere? Am I missing anyone? I added David's claim for<BR>
>Tavonni as I saw no earlier claim, and AB's tentative claim for Rorise.(BZA)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:15:22 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn<BR>
> > On 20 Mar 00, at 19:28, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > He's describing how cheese is *percieved* by members of some cultures on<BR>
> > Earth.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
><BR>
> I'd be interested in trying them. How would you like some well cooked<BR>
> Huhu grubs?<BR>
<BR>
But cooking destroys the taste and removes all the juicy goodness !<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:04:00 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: J Drive was Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
At 20:15 -0500 21/3/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>Except that it's clearly stated that without a "jump governor" a jump<BR>
>drive uses the same amount of fuel for a short jump as for a max jump.<BR>
>Thus a J3 engine without a governor uses J3 worth of fuel for *any*<BR>
>jump.<BR>
<BR>
Twilight's Peak? Or is it the reference in High Guard 1?<BR>
<BR>
>And I seem to recall other references to the effect that the original<BR>
>"in-system" uses of the J1 drive used a full J1 worth of fuel (of<BR>
>course that could be because the governor isn't invented until several<BR>
>TLs after you get J2...)<BR>
<BR>
Can anyone remember where?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:01:02 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 20:15 -0500 21/3/00, "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:<BR>
>In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
>be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
<BR>
MT Arrival Vengeance - Seldrian Aledon, (Norris' cloned heir) <BR>
although I've only skimmed the source and am not certain thate her <BR>
status as heir is made clear until TNE.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:07:52 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
<BR>
At 22:15 -0500 21/3/00, BlackIce wrote:<BR>
>If you're converting TNE/T4 characters with psionics to GT, I would do<BR>
>it the same way I converted some of my HG designs to T4/FF&S2.  Go with<BR>
>the nearest functional equivalent, and don't worry about the point cost.<BR>
<BR>
There are rules for converting HG ships to T4 by Rob Flammang on my website.<BR>
<BR>
Http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:13:49 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 1:32 -0500 22/3/00,  James Lindsay wrote:<BR>
> > What would be nice is if we could do a "pilot's guide to the *blank*<BR>
> > subsector." book.<BR>
><BR>
>Considering how generic most BITS books are, creating something<BR>
>"sector-specific" might not be the wisest choice.  Besides, we've already<BR>
>got GURPS' BTC to compete with.  We also know that some TMLers don't<BR>
>particularly like worlds described in so much detail and prefer something<BR>
>along the lines of the upcoming "Solomani Rim" GURPS sourcebook (if the<BR>
>rumours are accurate).<BR>
<BR>
Two things:<BR>
<BR>
1) The generic idea is not necessary, so long as the supplement <BR>
supports all flavours of Traveller rules.<BR>
<BR>
2) Don't get hung up on the 101 title. We have had 'The Long Way <BR>
Home', an A4 adventure for M0, the two new adventures, the two <BR>
editions of the Bibliography, and ACQ. The 101 series may be what we <BR>
are known for but it isn't the be all and end all.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:17:07 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
At 1:32 -0500 22/3/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> >>>Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
> >>>situation in a Striker game?<BR>
> >>Haarumpppphh.. cough cough ACQ cough...<BR>
>If I could get...cough, cough, ACQ, cough...I would! <g><BR>
<BR>
Patience, Grasshopper.<BR>
<BR>
*I* haven't got  my copy yet (beyond the playtest pdf).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:56:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Cultural prejudices aside, my main problem with the idea of eating small <BR>
invertebrates is the low return on the investment.  Shrimp and crustaceans, <BR>
at least, you can get conveniently pre-shelled; with other critters, you <BR>
have the choice of either eating the bugs whole (mm, crunchy) and then <BR>
picking chitin out of your teeth (not a fun part of MY dining experience), <BR>
or devoting a lot of time and effort to extracting a fairly small morsel of <BR>
meat, probably exceeding the caloric value of the bug in the process.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I'm a *lazy* omnivore.  :)<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair    "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since<BR>
kellys@efn.org     you came back from the dead.  (I can't believe I just<BR>
                    said that.)"    -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:01:04 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE/GURPS Psionics<BR>
<BR>
"William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> >john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com> wrote<BR>
> >How do you translate TNE and T4 Psi-Powers into GURPS?<BR>
> >While there are many conversions for Attributes and<BR>
> >Skills,there are no one for Psi.<BR>
<BR>
> Using GURPS Psionics can get way out of reasonable prices right quick;<BR>
> Traveller PSI scores of 5-7 are way more powerful than any REASONABLE<BR>
> 100 point character can afford <BR>
<BR>
Given how much of an advantage the Psionicist has it seems<BR>
to me to be entirely reasonable that most of them would be<BR>
built on more than 100 points. Given that you seem content<BR>
to run high powered campaigns using other games I am not sure<BR>
why you are implying that GURPS characters must be 100<BR>
points. You have had no problems with my playing Traveller<BR>
charecters (if converted to GURPS Trav) would probably<BR>
run 300 to 800 points.<BR>
<BR>
I remember when I was playing a non psionic character (Trier)<BR>
in your campaign in a party with several strong psionicists, <BR>
one of whom was Psi 15. These charecters also were quite <BR>
skilled, due to their long time in play, so no starting <BR>
charecter (even one rolled up with an UPP of 6CBDDC) could <BR>
compete. It was quite clear to me that my charecter had no <BR>
hope of competing with the psionic charecters on any measure <BR>
of "ability to accomplish tasks".<BR>
<BR>
Instead I had to create a charecter who stood out by sheer <BR>
force of personality. We ended up with a charecter with the <BR>
(GURPS equivalent) of 70+ points in disadvantages because <BR>
that's what it took to stand out in that campaign. There was <BR>
no way that a non psionic charecter could compete in terms of<BR>
ability or skill, so I pulled a Miles and competed (and<BR>
rather well at that) by virtue of eccentricity. <BR>
<BR>
Of course charecters in a role playing party are not in<BR>
competition with each other per se. However if as a player you<BR>
want your charecter to _do anything besides serving as an <BR>
assistant to charecter with more skills, stats, psionics,<BR>
and money that God then you have to make your charecter<BR>
stand out. In a party where the main male charecters had<BR>
the disadvantages Overconfident & On the Edge while the main<BR>
female charecter had the disadvantage Pregnant with Psionically<BR>
active quintuplets this is not easy.<BR>
<BR>
PS - This is the "real" reason the Darmine, IMTU, are so<BR>
screwed up mentally.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:28:05 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Jump Governor<BR>
<BR>
As a matter of interest what precisely was the jump governor meant to do?<BR>
Was it to restrict fuel, coolant, anything?<BR>
I personally believe it was a marketing ploy by AuricTech to sell to<BR>
everyone something that nobody actually needed.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:50:10 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships  <BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> And again, I bet the anthro books have examples of stuff that'd<BR>
> *really* bewilder players. Some, like that society of paranoids (I<BR>
> can't find the saved file with the name of the tribe dammit!) probably<BR>
> can't above very low TLs.<BR>
<BR>
I believe you are referring to the Dobu who inhabited/inhabit  <BR>
a small area on one of the Trobriand Islands (north east of <BR>
New Guinea). Their whole culture (12 to 20 villages IIRC) <BR>
was completely paranoid and TL 0 in Traveller terms.<BR>
<BR>
See Patterns of Culture by Ruth Benedict, who was herself a <BR>
woman in comfortable shoes who was 'close' to Margaret Mead.<BR>
 <BR>
"she argued, just as certain values that are considered abnormal in our<BR>
society are normal in other societies, so other societies value as ideal<BR>
certain behaviors that are considered reprehensible in our own. As examples<BR>
she offered the Dobu people of New Guinea, for whom individuals "of sunny,<BR>
kindly disposition who liked work and liked to be helpful" were considered<BR>
"silly and simple and definitely crazy;" and the Kwakiutl of British<BR>
Columbia, for whom what we would diagnose as megalomaniac paranoia is "an<BR>
essential attribute of ideal man." The result, she argued, is to "force<BR>
upon us the fact that normality is culturally defined." Benedict expanded<BR>
her concept of cultural relativity in Patterns of Culture (1934), a<BR>
landmark book that was translated into 14 languages and sold over 1.5<BR>
million copies."<BR>
<BR>
http://gaygate.com/media/pages/ruthben.shtml<BR>
<BR>
I strongly recommend Patterns of Culture, is the most <BR>
interesting Anthropology book I have ever read.<BR>
<BR>
[If you run a net search for Dobu limit your search to<BR>
English, it is apparently a common word in Czech, I got<BR>
back 50,000+ hits.]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 06:18:13 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
No I do not.  I think any star-spanning galactic empires peopled by beings<BR>
no different than we are today is a major handwave versus probable reality.<BR>
I'm not even sure that mankind will be recognizable or understandable to us<BR>
even 500 years from now, let alone 3,000.  That's just too long a span for<BR>
always quicker technological advances to run without drastically changing<BR>
life and living.  By the time we have practical star travel, I doubt we'll<BR>
still even be corporeal beings.  I've read in a story once about hive-minded<BR>
conglomerate entities, where communities of digital minds have meshed into<BR>
one 'supermind' and travel via transmission from place to place.<BR>
<BR>
When you take all the advances that are just 'around the corner' for us<BR>
right now, you have to realize that soon we'll have the power to recreate<BR>
ourselves any way we see fit.  With gene manipulation and nano-engineering<BR>
we'll totally reshape ourselves and our lives.  By the time we do invent<BR>
starships, we may no longer even need them.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Do you really think that the Third Imperium is a plausible future? Do you<BR>
> think it's accurate? Sci-fi tends to go out of date 5 or 10 years after<BR>
> publication. At twenty, the Third Imperium looks, in many ways, positively<BR>
> archaic already.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:53:31 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Landgrab still on?<BR>
<BR>
Hey gentle TMLers? Is there a web page listing who got what in the landgrab?<BR>
I know for one Dave Hyphen would want Tavonni - esp as MM himself used his<BR>
campaign's stats for the TNE regency book. Go on - give it to him. Is<BR>
Nassiem taken?<BR>
<BR>
- - Michael<BR>
<BR>
PS I'm trawling through TMLs of 2 weeks ago so apologies in advance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:00:02 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
<BR>
I just read the Behind The Claw description of Rorise (a world I have<BR>
already done some work on) and it's pretty much diametrically opposed:<BR>
<BR>
A volcanic radioactive hell inhabited only with a research station (BtC) vs<BR>
A dim, cold forest world leased to a large corporation by a Noble (AB)<BR>
<BR>
Is it worthwhile proceeding to clean up my heretical work for the Landgrab?<BR>
<BR>
Suggestions?<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:20:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
I have to wade to this and provide some examples of the way things have<BR>
changed in American Culture from let's say the time of JFK and today. If JFK<BR>
had an affair and it became public knowledge at the time it would have been<BR>
the end of the government as we know it. Look at what happened with Billy<BR>
Clinton. Not a thing. We as Americans learned that men have affairs and<BR>
according to static's American men have the most affairs of any men in the<BR>
world.( found in maxim)<BR>
<BR>
Now we're talking about a matter of sexuality. That changes too. With the<BR>
idea that everyone knows someone that is homosexual how would that look<BR>
after that fact is accepted. There will be no bible bangers saying it's<BR>
against GOD. In the Far  Future even religion will change. My wife says that<BR>
in San Fran where she's from same sex marriages has been legal for sometime<BR>
so if that is the case then imagine it legal for 3000 years? it wouldn't be<BR>
looked at as wrong just another life choice.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com' <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 4:15 PM<BR>
Subject: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
>have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
>published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly everything is an established<BR>
>cultural icon on one of the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial culture as a whole<BR>
>is based on our own, late 20th century culture because it has to be.  We<BR>
>have no reasonable chance of accurately predicting the cultural values of<BR>
an<BR>
>insterstellar society 3,000 years in our future, so the authors of<BR>
Traveller<BR>
>chose to project a familiar culture onto the 3I in order to better contrast<BR>
>the weird cultures of individual worlds.  This gives the players a familiar<BR>
>setting to play in and yet explore alien cultures.<BR>
>Given this background, a lesbian Empress would provoke the same general<BR>
>reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a lesbian world leader would<BR>
today.<BR>
>In other words, a scandal.<BR>
><BR>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]<BR>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:51 PM<BR>
>To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller News Service<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>At 11:12 PM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:34, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>>>Which brings up a point: What if they *are* gay? Can you<BR>
>>>>imagine the dynastic repercussions of a life-pairing between an<BR>
>>>>Archduchess and the heir to the Iridium Throne?  I can't<BR>
>>>>imagine that humanity will improve to the point where everyone<BR>
>>>>would be ready to accept a lesbian Empress.<BR>
>><BR>
>>>!?!  I had to look twice for the poster's name to be sure that it<BR>
>>>was indeed Doug Berry posting this :)<BR>
><BR>
>>As a member of the GLBT community, I'm always sensitive to<BR>
>>such concerns. One of the people at GLAAD put it this way: "It's<BR>
>>easy to accept gay rights in theory. Seeing two bearded men<BR>
>>kissing next door is harder."<BR>
><BR>
>Sadly true for our own world.  However, I wouldn't bet anything on<BR>
>this being the same 3,000 years in the future.  For one thing, the<BR>
>fact that artificial wombs and reliable birth control having been<BR>
>available for many *thousands* of years would likely change the<BR>
>culture to such a point that the assumed link between procreation<BR>
>and sex which lies at the heart of at least some objections to non-<BR>
>straight sex would be long forgotten on most worlds.<BR>
><BR>
>Also, today, much homophobia is religiously based.  There will be<BR>
>many and various different religions in the Imperium.  We might<BR>
>best ask what the Vilani attitude towards homosexuality was,<BR>
>since that will greatly influence Imperial mores.  Given that there<BR>
>have been many cultures on our world where homosexuality,<BR>
>transvestitism and similar behaviors have been perfectly acceptable<BR>
>I think we cannot assume anything about Imperial attitudes<BR>
>towards homosexuality.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm reminded of the *wonderful* scene in 4th season Babylon 5<BR>
>when Marcus and Dr. Franklin were traveling to Mars with forged<BR>
>papers saying that they were a couple on their honeymoon.  That's<BR>
>my vision of the future.<BR>
><BR>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindpsring.com<BR>
> Bi & proud<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:54:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Greek relationships [Anatomically Explicit]<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: William F. Hostman<BR>
<snip>... Also, this makes patting a virush<BR>
on the rump rather the erotic act.<BR>
<BR>
William,<BR>
Excellent detail; sure Virush penile details would probably never come into<BR>
play (sorry couldn't help it;), but it would be *easy* to set up a PC to pat<BR>
the rump of a Virush...<BR>
Abel<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:14:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Garcia, Abel" <agarcia@US.RHODIA.COM><BR>
Subject: RE: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans<BR>
If you want to *really* frighten an all-male, or largely male, party build a<BR>
society such as the one that Valerie Solanos outlines in her SCUM Manifesto.<BR>
Scary. Kind of like Sparta, only the Helots are male. Of course, the<BR>
Imperium might not look favorable on such a world (or Empire) but there<BR>
*are* a lot of Client States out there.<BR>
> And even if the group *does* "read the fine print" in the Library Data<BR>
> for the world, and recruit some extra (female) crew, what do they do<BR>
> with the displaced male crew? And are the females setting them up<BR>
> for a hijacking?<BR>
A really interesting idea, Leonard. I may hijack it myself.<BR>
<BR>
>Back in the early '80s I read a _STARLOG_ parody called "Star Flog".  (I<BR>
can't remember if it was in National Lampoon, Penthouse, or in Heavy Metal<BR>
- -all required college reading;) Well in one particular issue these three<BR>
intrepid astronauts crashed on the planet of "Naked Women"; all the women<BR>
were naked and all the men clothed. The beautiful women were in charge of<BR>
every thing and all the clothed men were a bunch of tittering twits.  It<BR>
seems that on the planet of "Naked Women" clothed men just couldn't get any<BR>
decent jobs, so to support themselves our three heroes were reduced to kick<BR>
dancing in their space suits for dollar bills.<BR>
#8^D<BR>
Abel<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 05:18:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- --- J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:<BR>
> No I do not.  I think any star-spanning galactic<BR>
> empires peopled by beings<BR>
> no different than we are today is a major handwave<BR>
> versus probable reality.<BR>
> I'm not even sure that mankind will be recognizable<BR>
> or understandable to us<BR>
> even 500 years from now, let alone 3,000.  That's<BR>
> just too long a span for<BR>
> always quicker technological advances to run without<BR>
> drastically changing<BR>
> life and living.  By the time we have practical star<BR>
> travel, I doubt we'll<BR>
> still even be corporeal beings.  I've read in a<BR>
> story once about hive-minded<BR>
> conglomerate entities, where communities of digital<BR>
> minds have meshed into<BR>
> one 'supermind' and travel via transmission from<BR>
> place to place.<BR>
> <BR>
> When you take all the advances that are just 'around<BR>
> the corner' for us<BR>
> right now, you have to realize that soon we'll have<BR>
> the power to recreate<BR>
> ourselves any way we see fit.  With gene<BR>
> manipulation and nano-engineering<BR>
> we'll totally reshape ourselves and our lives.  By<BR>
> the time we do invent<BR>
> starships, we may no longer even need them.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, your right. But this doesn't apply to the 3I,<BR>
since those break-throughs are not included in the<BR>
game. The 3I is more a feudal 1980 with spaceships. <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 23:28, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >>>Hey, Kristian and Luther, how about trying to model this<BR>
> >>>situation in a Striker game?<BR>
> <BR>
> >>Haarumpppphh.. cough cough ACQ cough...<BR>
> <BR>
> If I could get...cough, cough, ACQ, cough...I would! <g><BR>
<BR>
I'll settle for just ACQ, someone else can have the coughs.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 16:57, Antti Lahtinen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Walt Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Can a foil penetrate chainmail? By having a point smaller<BR>
> > than the chain links? Or would the padded undergarment stop<BR>
> > the point from penetrating?<BR>
> <BR>
>  It is unlikely that a rapier could penetrate mail armor.<BR>
> <BR>
>  A well-made mail armor is very dense, and the only blade which <BR>
>  fits though is a knitting needle. In the common 1-4 mail pattern <BR>
>  each link is chained with 4 other links. When the mail is made <BR>
>  with small links of thick wire, one can see only little light <BR>
>  through the armor.<BR>
> <BR>
>  Thrusting blades designed to pierce mail armor have strong <BR>
>  conical or wedge-shaped point, which is used to break through <BR>
>  the links, not slip through the link holes.<BR>
> <BR>
>  A narrow rapier blade might penetrate a few millimeters (1-2 mm) <BR>
>  through a flimsy mail, but the penetration is likely to be so <BR>
>  shallow that any padding under armor would prevent the blade <BR>
>  from touching the skin.<BR>
<BR>
This is mostly OT (but not entirely with GT around), but one of my pet <BR>
peeves with GURPs is that mail is much less effective against impaling <BR>
attacks than other types. IMO this is nuts as, if anything, mail would <BR>
be less effective against crushing attacks.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 00, at 20:15, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn<BR>
> > > On 20 Mar 00, at 19:28, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > He's describing how cheese is *percieved* by members of some cultures<BR>
> > > on Earth.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'd be interested in trying them. How would you like some well cooked<BR>
> > Huhu grubs?<BR>
> <BR>
> But cooking destroys the taste and removes all the juicy goodness !<BR>
<BR>
If you roast 'em they're like roast yams - crunchy and full of juice <BR>
and fat. Yum, yum.<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2152<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2153<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Cultural Relativism (was Re: Greek relationships)<BR>
J Drive was Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
4 Horsemen?<BR>
Two Great Vilanified Solomani  Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
FLGS finder<BR>
Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Two Great Vilanified Solomani  Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:25 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 00, at 0:52, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> If you want to *really* frighten an all-male, or largely male, party build<BR>
> a society such as the one that Valerie Solanos outlines in her SCUM<BR>
> Manifesto. Scary. Kind of like Sparta, only the Helots are male. Of<BR>
> course, the Imperium might not look favorable on such a world (or Empire)<BR>
> but there *are* a lot of Client States out there.<BR>
<BR>
The way Sparta ended up that'd be almost pleasant. At least the helots <BR>
weren't usually treated too abdly and didn't have to fight much. By the <BR>
end of the Spartan Hegemony most land in Sparta was owned by women <BR>
(Plutarch blamed the ability of women to inherit land for Sparta's fall <BR>
from greatness), and as a result they had a lot of authority. IIRC they <BR>
seem to have strated taking steps to ensure that their daughters would <BR>
inherit from them, rather than their sons, too (which wouldn't have <BR>
been hard with the constant warfare of the time).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:25 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 9:31, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The key words here are 'modern mail armor'. Such fine, strong mesh was<BR>
> > quite unattainable given the technology available to smiths in the eras<BR>
> > when chain mail was prevalent.<BR>
> <BR>
> True, but even medieval mail armor had higher construction standards than<BR>
> SCA mail. > > Also, this form of mail is designed to defend against sharp,<BR>
> cutting > instruments (butcher knives and sharks teeth) I'd like to see<BR>
> how it > holds up against a good whack with a battle axe or broadsword..<BR>
> <BR>
> Probably do ok, though that depends on how heavy the mail is.  Some modern<BR>
> mail is bulletproof.  Modern steel is really too tough to chop through<BR>
> very well with melee weapons.<BR>
<BR>
Betcha maces work pretty well, though.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:25 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 15:45, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > At 21:10 -0500 20/3/00, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
> >>Interesting canon issue here - if this be canon then in-system jumps use<BR>
> >>less fuel than interstellar jumps. This the later be canon then this<BR>
> >>passage (and the whole scenario as well).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Err - is it really an issue? If J1 takes 10% disp vol, and J3 30% etc<BR>
> > then you would expect J0 to take less? ie half a parsec takes 5% etc...<BR>
> <BR>
> Except that it's clearly stated that without a "jump governor" a jump<BR>
> drive uses the same amount of fuel for a short jump as for a max jump.<BR>
> Thus a J3 engine without a governor uses J3 worth of fuel for *any* jump. <BR>
<BR>
Where are "jump governors" first mentioned? I don't recall them in MT, <BR>
and they certainly aren't in TNE.<BR>
<BR>
> And I seem to recall other references to the effect that the original<BR>
> "in-system" uses of the J1 drive used a full J1 worth of fuel (of course<BR>
> that could be because the governor isn't invented until several TLs after<BR>
> you get J2...)<BR>
<BR>
TNE clearly states that a non-maximum jump uses fuel in direct <BR>
proportion to the ratio of jump to maximum jump (FFS1, p42). I thought <BR>
there was a minimum consumption of 1-parsec's worth of fuel, but I <BR>
can't find any reference for it.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:25 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 15:02, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
> > have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
> > published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly everything is an<BR>
> > established cultural icon on one of the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial<BR>
> > culture as a whole is based on our own, late 20th century culture<BR>
> > because it has to be. <BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, Jason, would that be "our own late 20th century culture" in  <BR>
> San Francisco, where several of the TML folk live, and where we came<BR>
> within spitting distance of electing a gay mayor last year, or the late<BR>
> 20th century culture of, well, somewhere where being gay is either illegal<BR>
> or suicidal? 	<BR>
<BR>
And in which New Zealand recently elected a transexual (I think that's <BR>
the word I'm looking for) to Parliament?<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:25 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 8:55, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:23 AM 3/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I have mixed feelings about this.  Since he won't eat meat otherwise, I<BR>
> >may have to learn some new cooking skills.<BR>
> <BR>
> Many cultures around the world eat insects. Hell, I ate them while in the<BR>
> Army doing survival training. It's always amazing that people who<BR>
> willingly eat sausages blanche at the thought of popping a beetle down the<BR>
> hatch.<BR>
<BR>
But how many of those people who eat sausage really know what's in it, <BR>
or how it's made? And if they did I'd bet a fair chunk of them wouldn't <BR>
be so keen on that lucious sausage anymore. It amuses me that many <BR>
people refuse to eat haggis, and yet merrily eat suasages.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:54:25 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 00, at 22:32, Curtis Phillips wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Love 'em!  The best come from Oregon or South Island New Zealand.  OK<BR>
> who's been to Invercargill?  Best bluff oysters on this planet.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately it looks like the beds haev become infected again, just <BR>
as the quota's been raised, so their availability may be fairly low for <BR>
the next decade or so.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:59:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, your right. But this doesn't apply to the 3I,<BR>
> since those break-throughs are not included in the<BR>
> game. The 3I is more a feudal 1980 with spaceships.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, fair enough John. Let's imagine, for the sake of this discussion, that<BR>
J-Man is right, and that three thousand years from now everything is<BR>
completely different. Humans are a digital hivemind, and effectively<BR>
immortal. Bodies can be generated via a combination of nanotechnology and<BR>
genetic engineering. Humans can completely control their environments from<BR>
top to bottom.<BR>
<BR>
What would adventures look like? What would interaction between characters,<BR>
who are merely semi-distinct elements of a digital network, look like? What<BR>
sort of things might mankind pursue once total environmental control has<BR>
removed want and need, while total immortality has been attained.<BR>
<BR>
In short, what would a roleplaying game look like in this universe? Would it<BR>
be fun? Would the characters have any personal control over their own<BR>
destinies? Does such a background support a small group of players with a<BR>
high degree of autonomy? Or will campaigns come down to the will of the<BR>
collective Hive mind?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:03:47 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Cultural Relativism (was Re: Greek relationships)<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
>I strongly recommend Patterns of Culture, is the most interesting <BR>
>Anthropology book I have ever read.<BR>
<BR>
Did Ruth Benedict get the wool pulled over her eyes by the Dobu and the <BR>
Kwaikiutl as badly as the Samoans did to her friend Margaret Mead? <G><BR>
<BR>
Seriously, has _Patterns of Culture_ stood up better for 11 years than<BR>
_Coming of Age in Samoa_ has for 27? Time can be pretty hard on<BR>
soft science works.<BR>
<BR>
I think a problem with cultural relativism is one of differential results.<BR>
Isn't it possible that the paranoid Dobu and the megalomaniacal Kwaikiutl <BR>
aren't examples of different standards of "normal", but are instead<BR>
examples of dysfunctional cultures? <BR>
<BR>
It may be a result of resource availabilities - which will shape local<BR>
cultures anyway - but I don't see the Dobu or the Kwaikiutl rising as<BR>
a powerful cultural force any time soon. I'll even bet their cultures are<BR>
in serious danger of dying out or changing radically...not a good sign<BR>
for the health of a culture, no matter what the cause.<BR>
<BR>
I can't believe that anyone with historical awareness would claim that<BR>
there is no such thing as a dysfunctional culture. It's even a common<BR>
claim of the loudest supporters of cultural relativism as a philosophy<BR>
that western culture itself is dysfunctional, therefore they cannot<BR>
argue that some cultures can't be healthier than others. <BR>
<BR>
The problem, of course, then becomes: who gets to define which<BR>
cultures are dysfunctional? The healthiest ones won't always be the<BR>
strongest ones, IMO, but they might be good candidates.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:14:44 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: J Drive was Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/22/00 5:58:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Subject: J Drive was Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
>  <BR>
>  At 20:15 -0500 21/3/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>  >Except that it's clearly stated that without a "jump governor" a jump<BR>
>  >drive uses the same amount of fuel for a short jump as for a max jump.<BR>
>  >Thus a J3 engine without a governor uses J3 worth of fuel for *any*<BR>
>  >jump.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Twilight's Peak? Or is it the reference in High Guard 1?<BR>
>  <BR>
>  >And I seem to recall other references to the effect that the original<BR>
>  >"in-system" uses of the J1 drive used a full J1 worth of fuel (of<BR>
>  >course that could be because the governor isn't invented until several<BR>
>  >TLs after you get J2...)<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Can anyone remember where?<BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure it was HG1.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:11:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Yo, people, I think it's time to get this on the web.  I'd like to propose<BR>
beginning with a central page on Downport.com for links to your pages.<BR>
Downport would be happy to host as many of the pages as creators would like<BR>
to place on our servers.  Shall I start with the list below?  Oh, and can I<BR>
scarf Excalibur?  Since being installed as dictator, I have come to think of<BR>
it as my own 8^]<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Justice Hypercleats <eris@sierratel.com><BR>
><BR>
> Heya/Regina                      Doug Berry<BR>
> Ylaven/Lanth                     Paul Campbell<BR>
> Mongo/Jewell                   Glenn Goffin<BR>
> Esalin/Jewell                      Luther Martin<BR>
> Wonstar/Five Sisters     Micheal Houghton<BR>
> Rorise/Mora                      AB (maybe?)<BR>
> Aster/Glisten                      AB<BR>
> L'oeil d'Dieu                       Robert O'Connor<BR>
> Yori/Regina                        Peter Trevor<BR>
> Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor      Volker Greimann<BR>
> Tavonni/Vilis                      David Jaques-Watson<BR>
><BR>
> Is this list up somewhere? Am I missing anyone? I added David's claim for<BR>
> Tavonni as I saw no earlier claim, and AB's tentative claim for<BR>
Rorise.(BZA)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 06:51:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- --- Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Yes, your right. But this doesn't apply to the 3I,<BR>
> > since those break-throughs are not included in the<BR>
> > game. The 3I is more a feudal 1980 with<BR>
> spaceships.<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay, fair enough John. Let's imagine, for the sake<BR>
> of this discussion, that<BR>
> J-Man is right, and that three thousand years from<BR>
> now everything is<BR>
> completely different. Humans are a digital hivemind,<BR>
> and effectively<BR>
> immortal. Bodies can be generated via a combination<BR>
> of nanotechnology and<BR>
> genetic engineering. Humans can completely control<BR>
> their environments from<BR>
> top to bottom.<BR>
<BR>
> In short, what would a roleplaying game look like in<BR>
> this universe?<BR>
<BR>
It wouldn't have a look at all, cause no sane<BR>
publisher would make such a RPG. Who would buy it? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 Would it<BR>
> be fun?<BR>
<BR>
No.<BR>
<BR>
 Would the characters have any personal<BR>
> control over their own<BR>
> destinies? Does such a background support a small<BR>
> group of players with a<BR>
> high degree of autonomy?<BR>
<BR>
Such a background is simply unplayable. Every RPG  (or<BR>
movie,or TV.......) has to contain a good dose of<BR>
unreality to function. ( How far would a real life PC<BR>
group with some guns come in a conflict with even a<BR>
small town conspiracy? )<BR>
<BR>
Nevertheless, humans in the year 5000 will probably<BR>
look more like the Borg than Emperor Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:37:28 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I had claimed Spirelle/Lunion<BR>
<BR>
Steve Charlton<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Taken so far are?<BR>
<BR>
Heya/Regina                      Doug Berry<BR>
Ylaven/Lanth                     Paul Campbell<BR>
Mongo/Jewell                   Glenn Goffin<BR>
Esalin/Jewell                      Luther Martin<BR>
Wonstar/Five Sisters     Micheal Houghton<BR>
Rorise/Mora                      AB (maybe?)<BR>
Aster/Glisten                      AB<BR>
L'oeil d'Dieu                       Robert O'Connor<BR>
Yori/Regina                        Peter Trevor<BR>
Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor      Volker Greimann<BR>
Tavonni/Vilis                      David Jaques-Watson<BR>
<BR>
Is this list up somewhere? Am I missing anyone? I added David's<BR>
claim for<BR>
Tavonni as I saw no earlier claim, and AB's tentative claim for<BR>
Rorise.(BZA)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:55:17 CST6CDT<BR>
From: igor@truserve.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
> normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
> I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
> be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm...do you have a canonical reference for the above? Or is your argument "it <BR>
hasn't been shown, so it must not exist"?<BR>
<BR>
In a universe as vast as the 3I, I don't think the omission of some element of <BR>
culture can be taken as proof of its non-existance.<BR>
<BR>
FYI - I'm not sure I support the Iphy/Isis idea presented...but I'm arguing <BR>
this case cause I'm not specifically against it either. I see no reason why it <BR>
wouldn't happen, and why it wouldn't be accepted by the Imperium at large.<BR>
<BR>
Note that with 11,000 worlds - I would be willing to guess that there will <BR>
alsways be segments of the Imperium that are displeased, or even enraged, at <BR>
the current Emperor/Empress for cultural reasons. What would a strictly <BR>
Matriarchal world think of having an Emperor over their head? What about racial <BR>
mores? I have no doubt that if Iphy/Isis bonded, there would be _some_ outrage. <BR>
But would it be more than any other cultural phenomenom? I think in the <BR>
thousands of years, the vast diversity of alien cultures and races, human and <BR>
otherwise, would make the Imperium as a whole very tolerant.<BR>
<BR>
YMMV<BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________<BR>
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.<BR>
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"<BR>
http://www.truserve.com        info@truserve.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:02:17 -0600<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: 4 Horsemen?<BR>
<BR>
<< Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:08:52 -0600<BR>
 From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
 Subject: GT: Starports<BR>
<BR>
     For those who haven't gotten (or haven't looked), be sure to pay special<BR>
 attention to the picture on p. 27.<BR>
<BR>
     I was thinking "neat" until I read the actual words, at which time I<BR>
 physically winced just because of what I've read in the short time I've been<BR>
 on list.  I'll let someone else spoil the surprise...but Ohmygosh, are they<BR>
 CANON now?  The end of the OTU must be near...repent...repent...<BR>
<BR>
     "Excuse me, sir, but there are four horsemen who want to have a word with<BR>
 you, and one of them is a young girl with a PGMP..." >><BR>
<BR>
Our artists like to have a little fun from time to time. I let it through<BR>
as long as it's harmess . . . and it doesn't violate our license contract<BR>
(which was renewed last December, BTW -- and there was much rejoicing).<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you shouldn't translate what the cargo container on the front cover<BR>
says . . .<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager<BR>
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>
          http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     LKW@IO.COM<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:15:53 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Two Great Vilanified Solomani  Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> The problem, of course, then becomes: who gets to define which<BR>
> cultures are dysfunctional? The healthiest ones won't always be the<BR>
> strongest ones, IMO, but they might be good candidates.<BR>
<BR>
Some Vilani recognize two cultural minds among the<BR>
ancient Solomani, who parallel some of their own <BR>
great thinkers.  They are:<BR>
<BR>
                 Ruurikharu Kha-Deneb<BR>
<BR>
This lady was legendary for popularising a model that<BR>
generalises a culture based on how it 'behaves':<BR>
<BR>
worldly   - safety 1st, good medical, cowardice, secular<BR>
spiritual - sacrifice, valour, merciless, divine right<BR>
<BR>
order     - meddlesome bureaucracy<BR>
freedom   - lasseiz-faire<BR>
<BR>
heirarchy - feudal, imperial<BR>
equality  - democratic, polychrome<BR>
<BR>
caste soc - specialization & skill<BR>
flat soc  - flexibility<BR>
<BR>
sacred chief - sacred, loved by all, ritually significant<BR>
prime minister - hated by most; CEO<BR>
<BR>
Ms. Kha-Deneb might see the Imperium as:<BR>
<BR>
Spiritual, ordered, heirarchic, perhaps not casted.<BR>
The leader is probably like a Sacred Chief.  There is<BR>
probably a secular religion in the Imperium, centered<BR>
around the Iridium Throne and the Imperial Laws.<BR>
<BR>
You're right: its culture is not like mine.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
                Kaageshiri Rasiiramiires<BR>
<BR>
This ancient scholar taught about ancient civilisations<BR>
of his time, but managed to produce philosophical works<BR>
skillfully.  He is thought of as like a Vilani beuraucrat, <BR>
with a somewhat pompous, condescending personality that<BR>
is loved despite that, because of his incredible insights.<BR>
<BR>
His contribution to understanding civilisation put Ms.<BR>
Kha-Deneb's writings into context by showing how almost<BR>
all human cultures set the same standard by which they<BR>
judged other cultures and (less often) their own.  He<BR>
borrowed from extremely ancient written Solomani sources<BR>
to formulate his ideas about objective cultural standards:<BR>
<BR>
Justice     (play fair)<BR>
Prudence    (look before you jump)<BR>
Temperance  (all in appropriate amounts)<BR>
Fortitude   (guts)<BR>
<BR>
He also tacked on three more theological standards taken <BR>
from the ancient theologian Maagashir Usiirar:<BR>
<BR>
Belief in things unseen<BR>
Trust in the prime mover<BR>
Do as you would be done by<BR>
<BR>
Upon the first four, then, everyone has the tools to<BR>
judge whether or not one culture is better than the<BR>
other; for if those are absent, then all other <BR>
considerations become meaningless.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:18:37 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In message <00318.115825.9a7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard<BR>
Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
>Absolute zero is -273.15 degrees C. You can't *have* a temp of -30,000.!<BR>
<BR>
mumble mumble spin temperature mumble mumble<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:31:13 -0600<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: FLGS finder<BR>
<BR>
Gentlebeings,<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/gamerfinder/<BR>
<BR>
is SJ Games newest service to locate fellow gamers in your area. It is also<BR>
set up to help you locate that elusive FLGS, but we need your help. If this<BR>
is to be complete, we need people to log on and register themselves and<BR>
their FLGS and (most important) verify the data of those that no longer<BR>
exist. This is a free service, and not tied to JTAS, so you need not be a<BR>
subscriber to use it.<BR>
<BR>
Go to the page, and click on the "add yourself to the database" link. The<BR>
CGI is set up with a "GURPS Traveller" box to check and does not cover any<BR>
other forms of Traveller, but you can subvert the process by giving your<BR>
name as "John _CT_ Doe" or "Eneri _MT_ Estigarribia" as a means of<BR>
identifying yourself to other Traveller fans. You might have to put up with<BR>
the minor inconvenience of being contacted by GT players . . . hopefully<BR>
this will not mortally offend you<BR>
<BR>
Even if you choose not to register yourself, please do me the favor of<BR>
checking out any game stores listed to make sure they are still in business<BR>
and add any you think should be on our list.<BR>
<BR>
I regret that for the time being, the finder only works for addresses in<BR>
the USA (we're working on that).<BR>
<BR>
Thanks --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager<BR>
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>
          http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     LKW@IO.COM<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:00:20 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, forgot the ObTrav of my earlier post.<BR>
<BR>
While it makes good space opera to take a small group of humans<BR>
and cut and paste their society into a world-spanning alien one,<BR>
there are some human cultures that shouldn't model that well.<BR>
<BR>
An Earth culture that never expanded above a small, isolated tribe<BR>
may have never expanded for cultural reasons - the dynamic simply<BR>
would not work as a larger social group, or the culture was easily<BR>
out-competed by other cultures.<BR>
<BR>
Now, alien planets (and alien humans) may have developed cultures<BR>
with interesting bases *similar* to what we see in Earth anthropology<BR>
books, but I think that if a culture is truly dysfunctional, it will <BR>
break into new, different cultures when it tries to grow above a small<BR>
size.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder if Earth's "western culture" can grow into the stars. Probably not,<BR>
but I think some pieces of it will go along...after it "breaks".<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:05:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The way Sparta ended up that'd be almost pleasant. At least the<BR>
> helots weren't usually treated too abdly and didn't have to fight much.<BR>
<BR>
No, but every aspect of the Helots' lives were controlled by others. Helots<BR>
could be killed at any time by any Spartan for any reason. That's the aspect<BR>
that I was going for, the difference being that Valerie Solanos thought that<BR>
men should be killed purely for the pleasure of sticking a "shiv" in them.<BR>
<BR>
> By the end of the Spartan Hegemony most land in Sparta was<BR>
> owned by women (Plutarch blamed the ability of women to inherit<BR>
> land for Sparta's fall from greatness), and as a result they had a lot of<BR>
> authority.<BR>
<BR>
A fair interpretation of Sparta's fall from greatness was their reluctance<BR>
to stray to far from home. The bulk of their army was tied up in making sure<BR>
that the Helots wouldn't rise up. The allies of Sparta began to get pretty<BR>
unhappy about the fact that the Spartans were getting complacent.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:15:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Two Great Vilanified Solomani  Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
- --- Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Ms. Kha-Deneb might see the Imperium as:<BR>
> <BR>
> Spiritual, ordered, heirarchic, perhaps not casted.<BR>
> The leader is probably like a Sacred Chief.  There<BR>
> is<BR>
> probably a secular religion in the Imperium,<BR>
> centered<BR>
> around the Iridium Throne and the Imperial Laws.<BR>
> <BR>
> You're right: its culture is not like mine.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's like our culture was 1800 years ago:<BR>
 It's a fairly good description of ancient Rome some<BR>
time before it's fall........<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:46:39 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>>         I hadn't realized that H2 could diffuse through solid metal,<BR>
what kind<BR>
>>         of pressure differential is required to make this flow significant?<BR>
>None. What's required is a *concentration* differential. That is, what<BR>
>matters is that the *partial pressure* of hydrogen on each side of the<BR>
>partition be different.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Strictly speaking, a concentration differential by itself is insufficient.<BR>
	It is the partial pressure, as I am (and, no doubt, you are) aware.<BR>
	That's what I wanted to know: at what differencial in partial pressure of<BR>
	H2 would the net flow of H2 through, say, 5 mm of steel become high<BR>
	enough that it might be noticable.  For example, if I have a 5 L steel<BR>
	tank of H2 at 5 Atm, how much H2 will 'leave' through the steel wall in<BR>
	24 hours?  0.01% of it?  0.1%?  1%?  10%?<BR>
<BR>
>>         Is the metal made brittle by chemical reactions? <BR>
>Not exactly. The hydrogen atoms move *between* the crystals in the<BR>
>metal, and their mere *presence* affects bond strengths. <BR>
<BR>
	So, the presence of H2 makes crystals brittle, but they cease to be<BR>
	brittle if the H2 is allowed to diffuse out?  Does this also affect<BR>
	non-crystaline structures?<BR>
<BR>
>>         The way it is explained, I would expect any H2 atmosphere to be<BR>
>>         insidious.  Is this what is being proposed?<BR>
>Yep!<BR>
<BR>
	That doesn't fit with the requirement of protective clothing (an oxygen<BR>
	mask should be sufficient in a H2 atmosphere).<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>>>two: Free hydrogen WILL sublimate through most materials. Quite readily.<BR>
>>>And, if it slowly does so, fire will result in the oxygen atmosphere with<BR>
>>>minimal encouragement; at least, unless you exceed the burnability level.<BR>
>>         I just figured that the flow of H2 would be very low, much lower<BR>
than<BR>
>>         that of CO2, etc., that is flushed from the system.  I suppose that<BR>
>>         it might build up if no life support systems were able to flush it<BR>
>>         well.  This would make any H2 atmosphere Insidious.<BR>
>The trick is that the life support system has no provisions to deal<BR>
>with hydrogen gas!<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Why not?  In an Insidious atmosphere, personal protective equipment is<BR>
	expected to fail in 2-12 hours.  For me, this means that there are no<BR>
	available systems that will allow a person to survive for long in said<BR>
	atmosphere.  I seems trivial to make a suit that would allow survival<BR>
	in a H2 atmosphere much longer than that.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2153<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2154</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2154<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
RE: eating invertebrates (was Alien thoughts)<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: 4 Horsemen?<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
OT: HasWotTSR jumps on the hypewagon...<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS     83-1117)<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Landgrab still on?<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:49:32 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 2000 23:57:18 +1200<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Delta guys' urban warfare techniques<BR>
>The whole idea of walking down the middle of a street, out in the open <BR>
>in a hostile area gives me the heebies.<BR>
<BR>
	You and me both, brother!  :-><BR>
<BR>
>So go out into the open, give yourself a clear field of fire. That's <BR>
>about like standing on top of a hill to have a look around.<BR>
<BR>
	Well, seizing the high ground might be the first commandment of tactics.<BR>
But you're extremely right that it's a two-edged sword to be the folks up<BR>
on the high ground.<BR>
<BR>
>From what I saw of footage from the baklans this is only a good idea <BR>
>when the other doesn't have artillery or tanks. If they do being up in <BR>
>a tall building is really, really dumb. Tank main gun rounds make a <BR>
<BR>
>serious mess of whole floors at a time.<BR>
<BR>
	Yep, tanks are an integral part of the best way for clearing city blocks.<BR>
In Beirut, the Holiday Inn (or some hotel) was the most strategic building<BR>
in town (27 stories?) and its defenders were in the upper stories (above<BR>
maximum elevation of tank guns) of a very solidly constructed steel<BR>
building.  It is open to debate whether a few tanks could essentially "chop<BR>
a skyscraper down" by shooting at it.  I don't think it's a practical<BR>
proposition.  The defenders had possession of the surrounding buildings,<BR>
interlocking fields of fire at street level and from above, and various<BR>
recoilless rifles and other AT weapons.  The attackers had a shortage of<BR>
tanks, or at least tanks brave enough to expose their top armor to<BR>
recoilless rifles while moving slowly.  If the attackers had possessed<BR>
something like Cobra or Apache helicopters (or the TML-beloved A-10 :-),<BR>
what might have happened?  News footage from aircraft showed that from the<BR>
exterior, all the tall buildings in town looked an unusuable wreck, yet you<BR>
could sometimes see tracer fire and muzzle signatures from upper floors of<BR>
buildings--very tall buildings.  Don't know what the news organizations<BR>
paid their pilots, maybe they just had really good telephoto lenses.  I<BR>
recall vividly a newspaper photo from the Beirut factional fighting (in<BR>
late 1970s I guess) of three Lebanese fellows "hip firing" a 106mm<BR>
recoilless rifle at a very high angle from a city sidewalk.  All the<BR>
experts will tell you that you *can't* hip fire a RR that big.  (Hip firing<BR>
a RR is the practice of having one person stand or kneel and lean over so<BR>
the tube can be placed on his back or shoulder for support instead of using<BR>
the tripod.)  Since we're talking about it, you *don't* want to fire a RR<BR>
from a room or other enclosed space because the backblast is likely to kill<BR>
people in a confined space.  RRs used in upper floors of a skyscraper are<BR>
either placed where walls have been knocked down, or placed so the<BR>
backblast is channeled by improvised walls or other means into unoccupied<BR>
parts of the building.  Striker rules, IIRC, lacked a provision for the<BR>
danger space behind recoilless rifles.  I may not recall correctly, of<BR>
course.  Other Traveller rules lack such a provision.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	As a sidebar to this:  During the 1968 Tet Offensive in Viet Nam, the US<BR>
Marines were called upon to retake historic downtown Hue city...without the<BR>
use of artillery or tanks.  It was ugly.  IIRC, fortunately (for the<BR>
Marines), the Communist defenders did not have much expertise in that sort<BR>
of fighting and were without tanks, air cover, or much logistical support.<BR>
US Marines have proven since at least WW1 to be tenacious and skilled<BR>
infantry fighters, and were in possession of good logistics at least at the<BR>
operational level.  It still took a few weeks to retake the city.  And of<BR>
course, this battle turned out to be a huge strategic plus for the<BR>
Communists even though an expensive tactical and operational failure.  To<BR>
my knowledge, there were no skyscrapers in the historic city of Hue, but<BR>
it's an interesting case study nonetheless.<BR>
<BR>
	Perhaps the Delta guys have only evolved a "middle of the street" doctrine<BR>
for special situations where there are other people making themselves<BR>
attractive targets on the sidewalks.  Or maybe they hired Rand to do a<BR>
study that didn't account for certain factors or whose results were<BR>
misused.  Or some brilliant psychological study showed parading brazenly<BR>
down the middle will cow opponents and break their will to open fire.<BR>
Maybe it's a primitive warrior ritual to prove to their bravery, for morale<BR>
purposes.  Or it is disinformation to mislead potential future opponents.<BR>
In other words, it's fun to speculate, but I can't really find a *good*<BR>
reason for these wackos.  Glad I'm a Marine, we have a more professional<BR>
understanding of such things.  ;-><BR>
<BR>
	The players put their free trader into orbital maintenance docks for the<BR>
experts to perform annual maintenance and decide to give themselves a<BR>
little vacation.  They check into one of the finest hotels in town and<BR>
select rooms near the top floor, with breathtaking vistas to be seen from<BR>
the room windows.  They are suddenly awakened by gunfire shortly before<BR>
dawn.  Looking out a window, they see troops patrolling down the middle of<BR>
streets, sometimes in firefights with people occupying upper stories of<BR>
taller buildings.  Military aircraft are swooping around, sometimes firing<BR>
at targets in the city.  There must be some kind of invasion, coup, or<BR>
civil war in progress!  How do the players react?  As they begin to collect<BR>
themselves and take action, they hear what seems like more gunfire...from<BR>
the halls outside their rooms.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:57:48 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>         I go with the rigid modules (and include 25% waste space), but<BR>
>>         the point that I was making is that H2 leakage should be<BR>
>>         relatively slow.  Couldn't it be removed by the vacc suit's<BR>
>>         life support system?<BR>
>It *could*. But only if the designer had a reason to *expect* free<BR>
>hydrogen *inside* the suit. Which is *very* unlikely. The stuff<BR>
>required to deal with it isn't useful for *anything* else.<BR>
<BR>
	If you live on a world with a H2 atmosphere, such a system<BR>
	would be useful.<BR>
<BR>
>You probably have a smoke detector in your house. Maybe even a carbon<BR>
>monoxide detector or a radon detector. But you almost certainly don't<BR>
>have a detector for chlorine. <BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	I agree that most vacc suits would not include a H2 system, but on<BR>
	a world with a substantial partial pressure of H2 I would certainly<BR>
	expect that it would be included.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:05:28 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: eating invertebrates (was Alien thoughts)<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair writes:<BR>
>Cultural prejudices aside, my main problem with the idea of eating small <BR>
>invertebrates is the low return on the investment.  Shrimp and crustaceans, <BR>
>at least, you can get conveniently pre-shelled; with other critters, you <BR>
>have the choice of either eating the bugs whole (mm, crunchy) and then <BR>
>picking chitin out of your teeth (not a fun part of MY dining experience), <BR>
>or devoting a lot of time and effort to extracting a fairly small morsel of <BR>
>meat, probably exceeding the caloric value of the bug in the process.<BR>
>Yes, I'm a *lazy* omnivore.  :)<BR>
<BR>
	Chitin is definitely unpleasant to eat (I speak from personal<BR>
	experience), but it may be avoided with a little care.  For most<BR>
	insects, pulling off the head and legs will greatly reduce the<BR>
	amount of chitin.  Of course, some insects are much more palatable<BR>
	(at least from the POV of chitin).  For example, maggots are rather<BR>
	soft, and grubs without head or legs aren't much worse.  On the<BR>
	plus side, many insects are excellent nutritionally.  Just avoid<BR>
	the ones with chemical defenses.<BR>
<BR>
	On the other hand, I'd rather eat choice bits of mammals.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:01:53<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
At 02:03 PM 3/21/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Given this background, a lesbian Empress would provoke the same general<BR>
>reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a lesbian world leader would today.<BR>
>In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
*grin* Never read "The Forever War", have you?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:05:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
At 04:20 AM 3/22/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>My wife says that<BR>
>in San Fran where she's from same sex marriages has been legal for sometime<BR>
>so if that is the case then imagine it legal for 3000 years? it wouldn't be<BR>
>looked at as wrong just another life choice.<BR>
<BR>
"San Francisco".<BR>
<BR>
We don't have smae-sex marriages, but the city does recognize domestic<BR>
partnership agreements. Every year there is a big ceremony at City Hall<BR>
during Pride Week where dozens of couples exchange vows.<BR>
<BR>
Last year, one of the couples were two ex-Marines, whio had nmet during<BR>
WWII. Thety wore their uniforms. Gret picture of that in the Chronicle. The<BR>
rings they exchnged has "Semper" on one and "Fi!" on the other.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:11:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 4 Horsemen?<BR>
<BR>
At 09:02 AM 3/22/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Our artists like to have a little fun from time to time. I let it through<BR>
>as long as it's harmess . . . and it doesn't violate our license contract<BR>
>(which was renewed last December, BTW -- and there was much rejoicing).<BR>
<BR>
As do the writers.. the three models of battledress in GF are named after<BR>
my Drill Sergeants in Infantry OSUT.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:45:54 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
That was my point.  The original question was whether or not the 3rd<BR>
Imperium was a plausible future.  It is not.  The 3rd Imperium is purest<BR>
fantasy and we all have to just sit back and agree to the handwaves on techs<BR>
(as you mentioned) that are not included in the game of Traveller.  As a<BR>
role playing game in a fantasy genre, Traveller works quite well and is in<BR>
my humble opinion, the very best space-based game there is.  But like most<BR>
science-fiction and fantasy, it doesn't stand well against hard cold<BR>
reality.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "john hamilton" <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:18 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Yes, your right. But this doesn't apply to the 3I,<BR>
> since those break-throughs are not included in the<BR>
> game. The 3I is more a feudal 1980 with spaceships.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:48:47 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]<BR>
<BR>
>Do you really think that the Third Imperium is a plausible future? Do you<BR>
think it's accurate? Sci-fi tends to go out of date 5 or 10 years after<BR>
publication. At twenty, the Third Imperium looks, in many ways, positively<BR>
archaic already.<<BR>
<BR>
I had thought my whole point was that the Third Imperium CANNOT be a<BR>
plausible future, and so the designers used things more familiar to us in<BR>
order to make a popular game.  In particular, they saw a need to make the<BR>
Third Imperium familiar so that the players would identify with their<BR>
characters in seeing it as 'home'.<BR>
<BR>
>No, it's not. The mechanical aspects of the Third Imperium are vastly<BR>
different from the late 20th century. First and foremost, the structure of<BR>
the government of the Imperium is strongly aristocratic, and in a few<BR>
sources (The Traveller Book stands out) it's strongly implied that the<BR>
nobles have a strong honor code and that for the most part they rule<BR>
fairly.<<BR>
<BR>
You are speaking of the mechanical aspects of politics, which are indeed<BR>
different.  I was speaking of cultural morals and values, and in cultural<BR>
values I believe the Third Imperium does conform to late 20th-century<BR>
Western values.  <BR>
<BR>
The idea that nobles have a strong honor code is how we would like to see<BR>
our own politicians, I'm sure.  Bill Clinton was nearly impeached when he<BR>
showed a lack of respect for the cultural value of marriage, so wanting your<BR>
leaders to be honorable is a trait of American culture, at least.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:03:19 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: 8x10 parsecs<BR>
<BR>
At 11:31 21.03.00 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
><BR>
>> So that is what makes the decisions: Money, Money, Money....<BR>
><BR>
>The Imperium IS a mercantilist empire, afer all...<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
Just as Loren wrote:<BR>
<BR>
QED.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:28:43 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS    83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 19:15 21.03.00 -0000, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Mrs Simpson was an American divorcee who won the heart of Edward, Prince of<BR>
>Wales (later Edward VIII). Due to Constitutional reasons (yes, we do have<BR>
>one, though it is not codified into a single document...) he abdicated so<BR>
>that he could marry her, leaving the throne to his brother George VI, father<BR>
>of the present Queen.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks! _Slowly_, I'm becoming an expert for anglo-saxon history on this<BR>
list. :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:01:28 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
To answer this, you need to dig deeper into the human psyche and determine<BR>
WHY we role play?  When you begin to think through a hive-minded culture<BR>
where reality and fantasy can be merged on demand, you find that motivations<BR>
become the key.  Why do we role-play?  To go places that are impossible<BR>
otherwise?  To indulge in the human need to explore possibilities?  To act<BR>
out our aggressive natures?  To relive that "team" association we had as<BR>
primitive tribes in the Neolithic?<BR>
<BR>
When you can answer these questions, you begin to have an inkling of what<BR>
futuristic role playing games might entail.  You must envision a society<BR>
where physical limitations are no longer a concern; most of the key elements<BR>
that create good role playing nowadays would no longer exist.  When<BR>
everyone's mind is a part of the whole, where is there room for the<BR>
primitive aspirations to gaining power and control?  When wealth is for<BR>
everyone, where is there motivation to create simply for the sake of gaining<BR>
additional monetary resources?<BR>
<BR>
Exploration would still be with us, perhaps on a macroscopic scale.<BR>
Immortal beings, instead of role playing how life would be in other galaxies<BR>
might instead formulate a long-ranged plan to go and see for themselves.<BR>
Perhaps the blackhole at the center of our galaxy could be macro-engineered<BR>
into a massive (albeit slow) motor for propelling our entire galaxy to<BR>
distant places in the universe.  Certainly a trip that would take eons, but<BR>
what is time for immortals?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:59 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> What would adventures look like? What would interaction between<BR>
characters,<BR>
> who are merely semi-distinct elements of a digital network, look like?<BR>
What<BR>
> sort of things might mankind pursue once total environmental control has<BR>
> removed want and need, while total immortality has been attained.<BR>
><BR>
> In short, what would a roleplaying game look like in this universe? Would<BR>
it<BR>
> be fun? Would the characters have any personal control over their own<BR>
> destinies? Does such a background support a small group of players with a<BR>
> high degree of autonomy? Or will campaigns come down to the will of the<BR>
> collective Hive mind?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:00:43 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:13:49 +0000, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 1:32 -0500 22/3/00,  James Lindsay wrote:<BR>
> > > What would be nice is if we could do a "pilot's guide to the *blank*<BR>
> > > subsector." book.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Considering how generic most BITS books are, creating something<BR>
> >"sector-specific" might not be the wisest choice.  Besides, we've already<BR>
> >got GURPS' BTC to compete with.  We also know that some TMLers don't<BR>
> >particularly like worlds described in so much detail and prefer something<BR>
> >along the lines of the upcoming "Solomani Rim" GURPS sourcebook (if the<BR>
> >rumours are accurate).<BR>
> <BR>
> Two things:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1) The generic idea is not necessary, so long as the supplement <BR>
> supports all flavours of Traveller rules.<BR>
<BR>
True, although those people not playing in the Spinward Marches in the<BR>
early 1100s won't be able to use it.  Also, if we specifically market using<BR>
the intent that it is a collection of Spinward Marches worlds set in the<BR>
early 1100s, you will be competing *directly* with GURPS' BtC.<BR>
<BR>
> 2) Don't get hung up on the 101 title.<BR>
<BR>
I was kidding :)<BR>
<BR>
> We have had 'The Long Way <BR>
> Home',<BR>
<BR>
AKA: "101 Ways To Say 'Are We There Yet?'"<BR>
<BR>
> an A4 adventure for M0, the two new adventures,<BR>
<BR>
AKA: "101 Ways To Make Your Life Easier By Using A Published Adventure So<BR>
You Can Spend Some Time At The Local Pub Instead Of Staying Home And<BR>
Spending Countless Hours Creating NPCs, Worlds, And A Plot"<BR>
<BR>
> the two <BR>
> editions of the Bibliography,<BR>
<BR>
AKA: "101 References To The Game Currently #1 On WWW.FREEVOTE.COM"<BR>
<BR>
> and ACQ.<BR>
<BR>
AKA: "101 Formulae For Calculating Proper Penguin Trajectories"<BR>
<BR>
> The 101 series may be what we <BR>
> are known for but it isn't the be all and end all.<BR>
<BR>
Until the moment in time where BITS offers 101 different products :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:15:40 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: OT: HasWotTSR jumps on the hypewagon...<BR>
<BR>
D&D is going 'Open Source' 8-/<BR>
<BR>
see the Slashdot take at:<BR>
<BR>
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/03/22/0950237&mode=nested<BR>
<BR>
(A few people have mentioned FUDGE as being open source a few more years<BR>
than D&D so far...;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:25:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
<BR>
At 03:07 PM 3/21/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hmm... I was envisioning the Israeli approach to handling<BR>
>Lebanese entrenched in skyscrapers: howitzers as direct fire<BR>
>weapons (higher upward angle than tanks), hence Striker as a<BR>
>system.  Can ACQ cover this situation?  <BR>
<BR>
Give me a few weeks to work up the stats for the guns. We even have rules<BR>
for elevators.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:32:54<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish (was: TNS     83-1117)<BR>
<BR>
At 05:07 PM 3/21/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Sounds reasonable. Fortunately for people like the man you mentioned (who<BR>
>is unknown to me as a non-U.S citizen)<BR>
<BR>
Quick divergence: Frep Phelps is an alleged minister who hates homosexuals<BR>
with a fury that would make Himmler proud. he and his band of followers<BR>
show up at the funeral of any prominent gay person to try and cause problems.<BR>
<BR>
They have come to San Francisco *once.* When Randy Shilts, noted jounalist<BR>
and author, died, Fred and six of his followers came to picket the memorial<BR>
service. They were met outside the church by 2,000 protesters chanting "go<BR>
home!" That protest lasted about thirty seconds.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:38:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
At 02:09 PM 3/21/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So, dark-skinned people in the Imperium still faces strong racial <BR>
>prejudice in many worlds, and capitalists democracies are still <BR>
>seen as the savior of humanity by most of the developed worlds?<BR>
<BR>
No, but those damn Vargr are coming in here and stealing our jobs!  And all<BR>
the damn Zhodani are mind-raping  bastards!<BR>
<BR>
The targets change, but the rhetoric remains the same.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to spend a weekend hiding int he cellar, take a look at how the<BR>
writings of the American Religous Right changed from 1985-1995. At the<BR>
beginning of that scale, all they talked about was communism. Homosexuals<BR>
were rarely mentioned, and even then were linked with communism.<BR>
<BR>
When the Soviet Union collapsed, the Right needed a new threat, and<BR>
overnight we became the scourge of Mom and apple pie.<BR>
<BR>
Now read "1984"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:46:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab still on?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:53 AM 3/22/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>Hey gentle TMLers? Is there a web page listing who got what in the landgrab?<BR>
>I know for one Dave Hyphen would want Tavonni - esp as MM himself used his<BR>
>campaign's stats for the TNE regency book. Go on - give it to him. Is<BR>
>Nassiem taken?<BR>
<BR>
The Landgrab is very active. I'm absolutely swamped with other, more vital<BR>
projects at the moment, but will have at least a basic page up listing<BR>
what's been taken already in a few days.<BR>
<BR>
Take what you want.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:49:28<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 09:11 AM 3/22/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Yo, people, I think it's time to get this on the web.  I'd like to propose<BR>
>beginning with a central page on Downport.com for links to your pages.<BR>
>Downport would be happy to host as many of the pages as creators would like<BR>
>to place on our servers.  Shall I start with the list below?  Oh, and can I<BR>
>scarf Excalibur?  Since being installed as dictator, I have come to think of<BR>
>it as my own 8^]<BR>
<BR>
If you have the time/space, go for it.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:52:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
<BR>
At 11:00 PM 3/22/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Is it worthwhile proceeding to clean up my heretical work for the Landgrab?<BR>
<BR>
My take on this is that folks doing Langrab material should clearly label<BR>
their work indicating how close it stays to canon, and what era it belongs in.<BR>
<BR>
If you like you version better, then go ahead. Hell, I'm shrinking stars at<BR>
will!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry      )+(      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored with sex."<BR>
	                    - Fry, Futurama<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:55:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:21:58, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:25 PM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
> >Any chance we'll see these published in some form? :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Who knows? If we get enough good entries, we might be able to nudge Dom and<BR>
> Andy.<BR>
<BR>
Do'h! I'm sure Loren would appreciate some good detailed world write-ups<BR>
for JTAS.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
   http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com<BR>
<BR>
"A mrgs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:20:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
At 10:00 AM 3/22/2000 -0800, James wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> and ACQ.<BR>
><BR>
>AKA: "101 Formulae For Calculating Proper Penguin Trajectories"<BR>
<BR>
my working notes were entitled "101 Ways to Die, Mr. Bond."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:28:52 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 22 March 2000 18:22<BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 10:00 AM 3/22/2000 -0800, James wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>> and ACQ.<BR>
>><BR>
>>AKA: "101 Formulae For Calculating Proper Penguin Trajectories"<BR>
><BR>
>my working notes were entitled "101 Ways to Die, Mr. Bond."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eeek! But I gave it positive reviews... honest!<BR>
<BR>
Matt (Bond)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:34:22 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>  Bill Clinton was nearly impeached when he<BR>
> showed a lack of respect for the cultural value of marriage,<BR>
<BR>
SPPEEEEWWWWWW!!!!!<choke><BR>
<BR>
Clinton was nearly impeached because certain blowhard Republican<BR>
political operatives never accepted the fact that they lost the White<BR>
House in '92. <BR>
<BR>
They had come to feel that the White House was theirs forever. After all<BR>
they'd had it for 12 years at that point, which was the entire adult<BR>
political careers of many of them. (one of the hazards of depending<BR>
entirely on 20-something firebrands to run political campaigns and<BR>
determine policy) <BR>
<BR>
These are the same people who thought that closing Yellowstone and the<BR>
Grand Canyon, and shutting down the rest of the government would somehow<BR>
make us mad at _Clinton_. <BR>
<BR>
Hell, during _that_ little contremps, Arizona's guv, a diehard<BR>
_Republican_ threatened to call out the Arizona National Guard and open<BR>
the Grand Canyon National Park by force.<BR>
<BR>
The WHOLE Whitewater/Lewinsky/Impeachment thing was transparently<BR>
motivated by political jealousy rather than any real outrage over his<BR>
'lack of respect for the cultural value of marriage'. <BR>
<BR>
The Independent Counsel's investigation (what...8 years and milions and<BR>
millions of dollars later) amounted to a long fishing expedition for<BR>
something, _anything_ to hang Clinton with.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, he handed 'em entire truckloads of rope to 'em on a platter, and<BR>
they _still_ couldn't find a tree high enough to hang him....<BR>
<BR>
The American electorate saw this. While we were clearly embarrased by<BR>
Clinton, they also clearly understood that the Impeachment process was a<BR>
deeply partisan effort to undo the '96 presidential election, and they<BR>
didn't like _that_ at all. <BR>
<BR>
We get kinda tetchy when people try to do things like rig (or reverse)<BR>
elections. Look at what we did to Nixon for trying that...At least Daley<BR>
had the sense to keep the patronage flowing, and the peeps happy when<BR>
_he_ was rigging elections....<BR>
<BR>
obTrav...Gotta wonder if it was shenanegains like this that made Cleon<BR>
think "To hell with these twits, I'm declaring myself Emperor and that's<BR>
that!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2154<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2155</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/22/00 12:16:31 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2155<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab<BR>
Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Vilani Font?<BR>
[OT] D20 'open' game system?<BR>
"It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: FLGS finder<BR>
Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment (was re: Re: F uture culture of the 3I)<BR>
Re: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
nearby stellar data<BR>
Starports Cover Art<BR>
Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
TNE/GURPS Psionics Conversion<BR>
TML Land Grab<BR>
re:  Next Meet April 15 -<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:29:39 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman asked us to help Calvin:<BR>
> >From: calvin ryden <fenix@famvid.com><BR>
> >please list UT1 - 2 technology available in<BR>
> >traveller.  thank you.<BR>
<BR>
What is UT1-2 technology? Either it is something I know about, but under<BR>
another name, or I want to know about it.<BR>
<BR>
If the person responding to this question could also post his/her reply<BR>
to the list, I would be grateful.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:33:34 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay wrote:<BR>
> SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> > Two things:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > 1) The generic idea is not necessary, so long as the supplement <BR>
> > supports all flavours of Traveller rules.<BR>
> <BR>
> True, although those people not playing in the Spinward Marches in the<BR>
> early 1100s won't be able to use it.  Also, if we <BR>
> specifically market using<BR>
> the intent that it is a collection of Spinward Marches worlds <BR>
> set in the<BR>
> early 1100s, you will be competing *directly* with GURPS' BtC.<BR>
<BR>
No, providing it doesn't duplicate/supercede/replace the bulk  of<BR>
BtC then it would be a *supplement* to it.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:36:57 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
> Perhaps you shouldn't translate what the cargo container on the front<BR>
> cover says . . .<BR>
<BR>
Since I don't have a translation key for Bilandin (where can I get<BR>
one?), I will have to kindly ask the list...<BR>
<BR>
Where can I find a key ?<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:40:59 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Well, obviously we disagree on a few things politically, but it's hardly a<BR>
topic for TML.  The "official" reasoning behind the impeachement was indeed<BR>
that he had acted improperly.  Even the democrats agreed to that.<BR>
<BR>
The point was that we do want our leaders to be honorable - it is not a<BR>
concept alien to modern Western culture, as someone else proposed.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>  Bill Clinton was nearly impeached when he<BR>
> showed a lack of respect for the cultural value of marriage,<BR>
<BR>
SP<BR>
*snip*<BR>
"To hell with these twits, I'm declaring myself Emperor and that's<BR>
that!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:43:40 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
<BR>
    I believe you're talking about GURPS: Ultra-Tech.<BR>
<BR>
    While I can't give you a direct answer...doing so would involve one heck<BR>
of a lot of typing...I will refer you to chapter four of the GURPS: Traveller<BR>
book (p.107), Equipment and Supplies, which discusses the various items in<BR>
general terms.  Beyond that point, it's pretty much up to the GM to decide<BR>
what is and isn't available.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:44:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
No sooner said than done.<BR>
<BR>
All Grabbers please check the chart at http://www.downport.com/landgrab to<BR>
make sure the Claims Bureau has properly recorded your grab.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> At 09:11 AM 3/22/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Yo, people, I think it's time to get this on the web.  I'd like to<BR>
propose<BR>
> >beginning with a central page on Downport.com for links to your pages.<BR>
> >Downport would be happy to host as many of the pages as creators would<BR>
like<BR>
> >to place on our servers.  Shall I start with the list below?  Oh, and can<BR>
I<BR>
> >scarf Excalibur?  Since being installed as dictator, I have come to think<BR>
of<BR>
> >it as my own 8^]<BR>
><BR>
> If you have the time/space, go for it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:48:50 -0500<BR>
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com><BR>
Subject: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
Hi all,<BR>
<BR>
Could someone please send a copy of the Vilani font my way, or direct me to<BR>
where I can find a copy. My preferred site, Uncle Bear, no longer has the<BR>
font on their site.<BR>
<BR>
It's a shame, really. I resisted hoarding a copy away with the reasoning I<BR>
could always go back and get it. Back to the packrat philosophy....<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Glenn E. Myers <BR>
Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:53:30 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: [OT] D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
WoTC, owners of D&D, may open the D20 game system for public<BR>
use.  IIRC, someone on the list has seen the beta-material for this<BR>
system.  Any comments on its quality?<BR>
<BR>
http://slashdot.org/features/00/03/22/0950237.shtml<BR>
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_DoD_005.asp<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:44:09 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
I've just stumbled across another program for showing 3D star maps at:	<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7472/<BR>
<BR>
I don't know how good it is, since for some reason I had a problem with<BR>
dowloading part of the files, but in the maps archive, there is a<BR>
"Traveller universe map".<BR>
<BR>
Does anone know if this program is as good as (or better than?) CHVIEW?<BR>
(Which can be downloaded at, IIRC, http://members.nova.org/~sol)<BR>
<BR>
And what about that Traveller map?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:53:45 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: FLGS finder<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.sjgames.com/gamerfinder/<BR>
> <BR>
> Go to the page, and click on the "add yourself to the database" link.<BR>
<BR>
Done that a while ago actually. Nice thing, really.<BR>
<BR>
> The CGI is set up with a "GURPS Traveller" box to check and does not<BR>
> cover any other forms of Traveller, but you can subvert the process<BR>
> by giving your name as "John _CT_ Doe" or "Eneri _MT_ Estigarribia"<BR>
<BR>
Or, as I did, check the GT box, and don't care much about the rules<BR>
system. I use (a modified version of) the T4 rules set myself.<BR>
<BR>
> I regret that for the time being, the finder only works for addresses<BR>
> in the USA (we're working on that).<BR>
<BR>
I was not aware. That must mean that the other Swedish gamers (4 of<BR>
them) and stores (8 of them) are just figments of my imagination. Sad,<BR>
isn't it?<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:54:05 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Heck, back in Victorian times the woman wasn't supposed to enjoy it, it<BR>
was just her "duty". So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
that strange?<BR>
<BR>
Remember, "gay" does *not* mean that you *can't* perform with members<BR>
of the opposite sex. Just that you'd really rather do it with members<BR>
of your own sex.<BR>
<BR>
- - --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
I've been told differently, that true homosexuality is not this way.<BR>
I don't profess to know.<BR>
<BR>
I do know that with thousands of other planets each with hundreds of<BR>
different ideas and religions, anything is up for debate/jihad.<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:01:56 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
>Subject: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
...<BR>
>parts of the building.  Striker rules, IIRC, lacked a provision for the<BR>
>danger space behind recoilless rifles.  I may not recall correctly, of<BR>
>course.  Other Traveller rules lack such a provision.<BR>
<BR>
  Striker simplified and prohibited their use in-doors and in bunkers,<BR>
but not weapons pits, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:59:11 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment (was re: Re: F uture culture of the 3I)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>Jason Postma wrote: <BR>
> <BR>
>  Bill Clinton was nearly impeached when he <BR>
> showed a lack of respect for the cultural value of marriage, <BR>
<BR>
> SPPEEEEWWWWWW!!!!!<choke> <BR>
<BR>
<Hands Bruce a napkin><BR>
<BR>
Slick Willy wasn't squeaky clean. I still think his generous gift of <BR>
major American coal reserves to perpetual parkland helped the Lippo<BR>
Group (Bill Clinton's campaign contributors from Asia) far more than<BR>
it helped the Americans who had the pleasure of the Federal government <BR>
closing down any attempt they could have made at developing the desert<BR>
around their home towns.<BR>
<BR>
For what it's worth, I still think President Clinton would have<BR>
improved his well-tarnished historical standing if he'd responded<BR>
to Lewinskygate questions with one these two statements:<BR>
<BR>
1) Yup!! Had her, she had me, and boy, was she GREAT!!<BR>
<BR>
2) You are a filthy voyeur. I refuse to answer questions about such<BR>
private matters. Why don't you go point your camera at something<BR>
important, like the nightmare in Kosovo?<BR>
<BR>
(oh, wait, he tried #2...)<BR>
<BR>
<G><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:05:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: UT 1 - 2 data for traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Jens Rydholm writes:<BR>
> Loren Wiseman asked us to help Calvin:<BR>
> > >From: calvin ryden <fenix@famvid.com><BR>
> > >please list UT1 - 2 technology available in<BR>
> > >traveller.  thank you.<BR>
> <BR>
> What is UT1-2 technology? Either it is something I know about, but under<BR>
> another name, or I want to know about it.<BR>
<BR>
It would refer to ultra-tech 1 and ultra-tech 2.  A complete answer would be<BR>
a pain, but just following the safetech guidelines in UT2 should be about<BR>
right.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:01:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
The Great TML2000 Spinward Marches Landgrab -<BR>
http://www.downport.com/landgrab<BR>
<BR>
In a fit of pique, during a netiquette flame war, while no one was minding<BR>
the domain, rabid TML denizens made a mad grab at unsuspecting worlds.  Not<BR>
since the Sword Worlder forays into Vilis during the Fifth Frontier War has<BR>
such a brash, unprovoked campaign been attempted.<BR>
<BR>
The catch, if you can call it one, is that the grabber must report on the<BR>
grabbee in great detail.  Within one cycle, a survey must be taken and a<BR>
State-of-the-World Address (SWA) presented by web-proxy to the whole of the<BR>
high counsel of the TML. The claims made thus far include:<BR>
<BR>
Heya/Regina Doug Berry<BR>
Ylaven/Lanth Paul Campbell<BR>
Mongo/Jewell Glenn Goffin<BR>
Esalin/Jewell Luther Martin<BR>
Wonstar/Five Sisters Michael Houghton<BR>
Rorise/Mora  -or- Aster/Glisten AB<BR>
L'oeil d'Dieu Robert O'Connor<BR>
Yori/Regina Peter Trevor<BR>
Rhylanor/Rhylanor Volker Greimann<BR>
Tavonni/Vilis David Jacques-Watson<BR>
875-496/Five Sisters  Justice Hypercleats (Eris)<BR>
Excalibur/Sword Worlds Colin Michael<BR>
Wypoc/Lanth William Hostman<BR>
Spirelle/Lunion Steve Charlton<BR>
<BR>
What, you say you want to join the chaos? Then stake your claim on the<BR>
Traveller Mailing List. If none oppose you, or if you win an electronic<BR>
conflagration, you too may become a grabber of the first order!<BR>
<BR>
NOTE: Grabbers may provide links to their SWA or request hosting of their<BR>
SWA on Downport.com by posting announcement to the TML or by messaging the<BR>
Claims Bureau (me).<BR>
<BR>
(Disclaimer: I am not the originator nor am I to blame for this!  Penguin<BR>
Boy started the fire :-)<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:08:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr wrote:<BR>
>I've been told differently, that true homosexuality is not this way. <BR>
>I don't profess to know. <BR>
<BR>
Eh. Ask twenty different "true" homosexuals, you'll probably get<BR>
twenty-one different answers.<BR>
<BR>
I've seen a survey done in the United States where the majority of<BR>
respondents who self-identified as homosexual had performed sexually at <BR>
least once with someone of the opposite gender, and that a significant<BR>
percentage did so with some frequency even *after* that point in<BR>
their lives when they had identified themselves as homosexual. This was <BR>
on a survey where "bisexual" was presented as a self-identification <BR>
choice.<BR>
<BR>
I recall a significant percentage of self-identified heterosexuals <BR>
reporting one or more homosexual experiences, so it apparently<BR>
goes both ways.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:08:01 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
Derek Dees <djdees@mm.com> wrote,<BR>
>You could place the farms underground, but at TL6, I don't think you<BR>
>could get enough light and such down to get crops to do well.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed.<BR>
<BR>
>The other though would be what is the hydrography look like? Could they<BR>
>be ocean farms travelling in swift currents?<BR>
<BR>
Interesting. I don't think this could be made to work in this case<BR>
(especially since it has to be cereal crops) but it's a fun idea!<BR>
<BR>
Actually I think I'd like it best for a steampunk game - the great<BR>
"world-river" girdling the planet...<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:07:24 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
>Depending on how many oceans (or large bodies of water) there are on<BR>
>the brightside, and how prevailing wind patterns carry the moisture<BR>
>that builds up due to evaporation, it may be that rain will occur quite<BR>
>a ways into the brightside.<BR>
<BR>
That would certainly be handy for an agricultural planet.<BR>
<BR>
>Keep in mind that Terrain, especially mountains also changes weather<BR>
>patterns.<BR>
<BR>
I'm finding there's an awful lot of things to keep in mind! And I<BR>
haven't even got to the ecology yet...<BR>
<BR>
>Question: When a world is locked into a 1:1 ratio like this, does (or<BR>
>can) the shape change, ie a bulge form on the bright side?<BR>
<BR>
If so, wouldn't there be a corresponding bulge on the dark side, making<BR>
it an ellipsoid rather than pear-shaped planet?<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:08:46 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler <JFZeigler@aol.com> wrote,<BR>
>If I remember my meteorology right, you would indeed have a permanent<BR>
>air-circulation pattern as you describe. The air would come from the<BR>
>dark face carrying moisture from the twilight-zone seas, and drop that<BR>
>moisture in the temperate zone as it rises.<BR>
<BR>
I realised after my post that I got the idea from you in the first place<BR>
(see sidebar, p.FI79), so I'm glad you agree...<BR>
<BR>
>Naturally the sunward point and regions around it would probably be<BR>
>high, hot and arid.<BR>
<BR>
Why would it be high? Is this the bulge mentioned by Scout Harris?<BR>
<BR>
>And yes, you're correct that the _First In_ rules are probably a bit<BR>
>too generous with respect to truly tide-locked worlds.  This was<BR>
>deliberate. Given the canonical predominance of red dwarf stars, I knew<BR>
>an awful lot of worlds in the Third Imperium setting would be tide-<BR>
>locked. . .<BR>
<BR>
<grin> From what Leonard's saying it may not be too generous after all!<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:10:20 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote,<BR>
>> 2. Give it resonant tide-locking. With the rotation period being<BR>
>> 2/3rds the orbital period the local day will be almost 15 Earth days.<BR>
>> This is long enough that nowhere will be permanently habitable and<BR>
>> short enough that the cereal production mentioned in BtC is unlikely<BR>
>> at best. With TL6 tech, mobile farms moving around the planet at<BR>
>> 25mph seem unlikely too. Unless I can have resonant tide-locking with<BR>
>> smaller fractions this doesn't seem like a good option.<BR>
><BR>
>Why is it uninhabitable? remember, you are going to have air<BR>
>circulation.<BR>
<BR>
Using First In rules, the climate category rises during the day by one<BR>
per 40 hours of day length (max five levels) and falls similarly at<BR>
night. The local day is longer than 200 hours, so it'll range from<BR>
(Base+5) to (Base-5). Since there are only 12 climate categories from<BR>
Uninhabitable (Frigid, <239K) to Uninhabitable (Torrid, >324K), it will<BR>
hit one of these.<BR>
<BR>
Note: this is a temperature range of about 85K. World Builder's Handbook<BR>
produces a daytime +10K and nighttime -30K, which is much more<BR>
manageable. This is due to the combination of dense atmosphere and low-<BR>
luminosity primary, which First In ignores for day-night variations.<BR>
<BR>
>Current thought is that even true "one face worlds" (ie 1:1 lock)<BR>
>should be reasonably habitable as long as all the water doesn't pile up<BR>
>on the darkside.<BR>
<BR>
What would prevent this from happening?<BR>
<BR>
>Consider that a lot of places in the arctic get that much sunlight (or<BR>
>close to it!) in midsummer. As long as the temp swings are reasonable<BR>
>(ie it doesn't get above say 130F or below 40F) the plants will do just<BR>
>fine.<BR>
<BR>
That's roughly 278K-327K. I could just about do it with WBH rules...<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:19:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
>1. Neo-Nazis found the "Fourth Reich" somewhere. (Give the <BR>
>relatively low cost of interstellar travel in Traveller, I'd <BR>
>consider this one just about a "given")<BR>
<BR>
Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
machen?  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:27:02 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: nearby stellar data<BR>
<BR>
Hello.  For those of you interested in the local neighborhood i've updated<BR>
my nearstar databases of XYZ coordinates to make them more user-friendly.<BR>
Downloads are now available for an Excel 97 spreadsheet, Access 97 database,<BR>
comma delimited CSV file, and a tab delimited text file.<BR>
<BR>
You can find them at www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dstars.htm<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately the data do not contain motion for the stars so the data are<BR>
totally unsuited for you 2300 zealots.  Or so i've been told :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:23:58 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: Starports Cover Art<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps you shouldn't translate what the cargo container on the front cover<BR>
says . . .<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
LOL!!!<BR>
I can't translate it, but Jesse told me what the Lucky Credit was<BR>
shipping...<BR>
<weg><BR>
"I swear, the manifests said Chak Root Tips..."<BR>
:)<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:40:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
>(2 weeks surviving the breakup with Hiroshi and getting fired <BR>
>the same day-- it's good to laugh!)<BR>
<BR>
That's sort of like getting punched in the stomach to improve<BR>
your headache (yes, yet another movie reference:  "what kind of<BR>
beer do you like?" "uh, Heineken?" "Heineken? Heineken? PABST!<BR>
BLUE! RIBBON!").  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:50:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
>Sure, most noble may "do things the old fashion way", but in <BR>
>this case, most may be only 60-70%.<BR>
<BR>
"Just remember when you are the Duke that our House produces<BR>
heirs the old-fashioned way.  No, not out of any false sense of<BR>
tradition or harking back to primitive roots.  We do it that way<BR>
because it's more fun!"<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:58:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: TNE/GURPS Psionics Conversion<BR>
<BR>
The Conversion from TNE to GURPS.<BR>
Let's try it:<BR>
First, in  Classic Traveller a Psi can only perform<BR>
somewhat around 2-5 feats; exspecialy Teleporters. So<BR>
the Limitation "Fatiguing" would be appropriate. This<BR>
limitation is too uneconomic, -5% per point, for<BR>
players to take normally, however, it becomes<BR>
mandatory. So every Power has to be taken with the<BR>
Limitation " costs 2 Fatigue", for a -10%<BR>
reduction.(This is not exactly TNE, but good for play<BR>
balance. Ignore it  if demanded.)<BR>
<BR>
The Powers from TNE:<BR>
<BR>
Telempathy<BR>
The Skills Telecontrol and Illusion are available<BR>
beside the ones mentioned in GT.<BR>
<BR>
Telephysics<BR>
Telekinesis,Pyrokinesis,Cryokinesis<BR>
<BR>
Teleportation<BR>
As in GT<BR>
<BR>
Teleperception<BR>
As in GT<BR>
<BR>
Awereness<BR>
Gurps has no real equivalent.So use the<BR>
 <BR>
Awereness Package<BR>
Hyperstrength      30 Points<BR>
Absolute Direction  5 Points<BR>
Healing (Personal)  2 Points/Level<BR>
<BR>
for a final cost of 37 Points + 2 /Extra Level.<BR>
( Don't use the Fatigue Limitation with this Power)<BR>
<BR>
Special<BR>
<BR>
Computer Empathy<BR>
<BR>
Use Cyberpsi as a Single-Skill Power.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:06:18 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I've been debating this for a while, and I'm gonna go for it.<BR>
<BR>
Is Efate/Regina still available?<BR>
(It's been my "home away from home" for years now...)<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:14:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Next Meet April 15 -<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
<BR>
>Any preferences for "Striker" or "Striker 2?"<BR>
<BR>
I've never played Striker 2, so I lean toward Striker.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2155<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2156</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/22/00 2:27:38 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2156<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: TML Land Grab<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Jump Governors was  Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment <BR>
DragonCon<BR>
Mire Run NPC and  stuff<BR>
OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment <BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Keith supplements<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism (was Re: Greek relationships)<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
RE: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:16:28 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
At 8:55 AM -0800 3/22/00, igor@truserve.com wrote:<BR>
>"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  > In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>  > normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>  > I don't have) worth specific mention.  Most nobles seem to<BR>
>  > be expected to produce heirs the "old fashion" way....<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm...do you have a canonical reference for the above? Or is your <BR>
>argument "it<BR>
>hasn't been shown, so it must not exist"?<BR>
<BR>
No.  My arguement is that the situation with Norris is clearly<BR>
an exception.  I also allow for the fact that I don't know of<BR>
all the sources but it there was another exception it would<BR>
be just that, an exception.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>In a universe as vast as the 3I, I don't think the omission of some element of<BR>
>culture can be taken as proof of its non-existance.<BR>
<BR>
No, but the fact that cloning is explicitly treated as something worth<BR>
special notice, and that other heirs are presented as being<BR>
assumed as having been made "the old fashion way" can be<BR>
taken as strong evidence.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:22:22 -0600<BR>
From: "Derek Dees" <djdees@mm.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I staked out Zila:Aramis-Spinward Marches/0508.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Derek<BR>
djdees@mm.com<BR>
http://www.mm.com/user/djdees<BR>
<BR>
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who<BR>
doesn't get it.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:37 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I had claimed Spirelle/Lunion<BR>
><BR>
> Steve Charlton<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Taken so far are?<BR>
><BR>
> Heya/Regina                      Doug Berry<BR>
> Ylaven/Lanth                     Paul Campbell<BR>
> Mongo/Jewell                   Glenn Goffin<BR>
> Esalin/Jewell                      Luther Martin<BR>
> Wonstar/Five Sisters     Micheal Houghton<BR>
> Rorise/Mora                      AB (maybe?)<BR>
> Aster/Glisten                      AB<BR>
> L'oeil d'Dieu                       Robert O'Connor<BR>
> Yori/Regina                        Peter Trevor<BR>
> Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor      Volker Greimann<BR>
> Tavonni/Vilis                      David Jaques-Watson<BR>
><BR>
> Is this list up somewhere? Am I missing anyone? I added David's<BR>
> claim for<BR>
> Tavonni as I saw no earlier claim, and AB's tentative claim for<BR>
> Rorise.(BZA)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:19:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
So noted on http://www.downport.com/landgrab, challenges accepted for 24<BR>
hours ;-)<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
> Okay, I've been debating this for a while, and I'm gonna go for it.<BR>
><BR>
> Is Efate/Regina still available?<BR>
> (It's been my "home away from home" for years now...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:24:35 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
>Sure, most noble may "do things the old fashion way", but in<BR>
>this case, most may be only 60-70%.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think 60-70% fits.  I would then expect cloning to<BR>
be at least occasionally mentioned in offhand references<BR>
(ie all the cases that don't seem to need special notice<BR>
all seem to be natural births) and I don't think Norris<BR>
methods of producing an heir would have been such a big<BR>
deal.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, if it was that common, why was the idea that Stephon<BR>
had a clone something that didn't occur to Dullinor, let<BR>
alone to a lot of people until well after the assassination.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:44:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>Hmm... I was envisioning the Israeli approach to handling<BR>
>>Lebanese entrenched in skyscrapers: howitzers as direct fire<BR>
>>weapons (higher upward angle than tanks), hence Striker as a<BR>
>>system.  Can ACQ cover this situation?  <BR>
><BR>
>Give me a few weeks to work up the stats for the guns. We even<BR>
>have rules for elevators.<BR>
<BR>
Cool!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:48:58 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Mar 2000, at 17:42 PST. shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
wrote:<BR>
>Skyscrapers make *really* bad fortifications. <BR>
><BR>
>I'm also reminded of the comment in one of the classic "Willie and<BR>
>Joe"(?) cartoons by Bill Maudlin. The two of them are looking at a tank<BR>
>and one of them says something along the lines of "a foxhole that calls<BR>
>that much attention to itself ain't gonna last long..."<BR>
<BR>
	Those were great cartoons.  All hail Bill Mauldin!  :-><BR>
<BR>
	Yep, skyscrapers are not the Maginot Line, a Japanese-fortified island in<BR>
the WW2 Pacific, nor even Dien Bien Phu.  But *in the existing terrain* of<BR>
a city that is being more or less evenly contested in war, they are the<BR>
high ground..  Modern battle tends to be fluid.  Battles in modern times<BR>
generally don't involve fortifications beyond the hasty ones built with<BR>
some sandbags--at most.  There are, of course, many exceptions.  Hasty<BR>
fortifications can be erected on ground level and to some degree even upper<BR>
levels of skyscrapers.  BTW, anyone using a skyscraper as a defensive<BR>
position might be advised to avoid the top two or three floors.  Those<BR>
floors would serve best for absorbing incoming artillery rounds and air<BR>
strikes.<BR>
<BR>
	Separately, someone talked about using artillery in a direct fire role<BR>
against upper floors of skyscrapers.  As a former artilleryman, I'd be<BR>
eager to contribute to my side as much as possible but just plain unsure<BR>
whether that would be a viable idea.  Some reasons for doubting would be<BR>
that I would have to expose myself to direct HMG and other automatic<BR>
weapons fire in order to obtain a clear shot, and the awkwardness of hip<BR>
firing a direct shot at an unusually high altitude difference.  But that's<BR>
towed, TL 7 to 8 artillery with no appreciable armor shielding.  Exact<BR>
equipments and tactical situations come in a wide range of choices.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	We haven't got into the issue of what happens when a force in the top<BR>
levels of skyscrapers is cut off from water supply.  I was sure someone was<BR>
going to throw that out.  Basically, they either get water flown in, become<BR>
*really* good at catching rain with ponchos and helmets, and they get busy<BR>
(re)capturing the ground levels of their building.  IMHO, any force that is<BR>
only just barely hanging onto the top levels and not established anywhere<BR>
else isn't going to be the winning side, so loss of water supply is only<BR>
getting into one of the details of how they lose.  In other words, the high<BR>
ground is the primary tactical objective, but hardly the only objective.<BR>
<BR>
	A really fascinating study was written by John Ellis in 1980, called The<BR>
Sharp End.  Two salient conclusions in the book were that mortality rates<BR>
were pretty much the same for tank crews and line infantry, and that sooner<BR>
or later *everyone* succumbs to combat fatigue (IIRC, the most superhuman<BR>
person would crack after 90 continuous days under fire, max).  So, the tank<BR>
may be a gaudier target, but there is no safe way to be a participating<BR>
combatant in a war.  (Kinda like participating in flame wars on a mailing<BR>
list?  :-)<BR>
<BR>
	The Sharp End also conveys a very lucid understanding of what happens to a<BR>
tank and the people in it when it is hit.  It renewed my appreciation for<BR>
the laconic humor of the original Brits who popularized the term "brew up"<BR>
that originally referred to brewing tea not tanks.<BR>
<BR>
	Anyone who thinks combat and war has a glamorous side and wants to be a<BR>
hero, should read this important book.  Any referee who wants to be able to<BR>
describe events in warfare with convincing realism and drama should read<BR>
the book also.<BR>
<BR>
	I am looking forward to hearing how the Striker battles turn out.  I'd<BR>
eagerly participate on either side, but I seem to be living a couple<BR>
thousand miles away.  Are you guys going to be going to Origins this year?<BR>
I'd love to meet you and do Striker or ACQ with you.  I loved Snapshot, and<BR>
ACQ sounds great, but I think ACQ is the wrong scale for something like<BR>
this battle.  It would be interesting to use ACQ for the scenario of the<BR>
players caught in the top of the hotel when the shooting starts, though.<BR>
If it were me, I'd look for peaceful ways out and off planet or to the<BR>
Imperial Consulate, but YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
+-+-+-+<BR>
	The players are visiting a balkanized TL 6 world, and are approached by<BR>
the government that is their host asking if they will assist in a small<BR>
matter.  Turns out, the hosts are hoping the players will use their two<BR>
laser turrets to blast the resistance in the skyscrapers of a city the<BR>
hosts are attempting to capture in a rather bitter war on their border.<BR>
There are so many extra factors that could be relevant here, each referee<BR>
is left to tailor the rest of the scenario to their own preference.<BR>
+-+-+-+<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:52:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>At the beginning of that scale, all they talked about was <BR>
>communism. Homosexuals were rarely mentioned, and even then <BR>
>were linked with communism. <BR>
>When the Soviet Union collapsed, the Right needed a new threat,<BR>
<BR>
>and overnight we became the scourge of Mom and apple pie. <BR>
>Now read "1984"<BR>
<BR>
There will always be a need for double-plus good duck-quackers.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:57:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>The American electorate saw this. While we were clearly <BR>
>embarrased by Clinton, they also clearly understood that the <BR>
>Impeachment process was a deeply partisan effort to undo the <BR>
>'96 presidential election, and they didn't like _that_ at all. <BR>
><BR>
>We get kinda tetchy when people try to do things like rig (or <BR>
>reverse) elections. Look at what we did to Nixon for trying <BR>
>that...<BR>
<BR>
This is how we play the coup d'etat game.  The closest the<BR>
military has gotten involved in recent memory has been over the<BR>
gays in the military issue.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:17:40 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Jump Governors was  Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:46 -0500 22/3/00, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
>Where are "jump governors" first mentioned? I don't recall them in MT,<BR>
>and they certainly aren't in TNE.<BR>
<BR>
HG *First* Edition describes them, and I think that Mission on <BR>
Mithril may give them as a reason for the misjump, but my copy isn't <BR>
to hand.<BR>
<BR>
SOpM mentions them on p13.<BR>
<BR>
They basically allow a higher level J drive to act as a lower level J <BR>
Drive, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
>TNE clearly states that a non-maximum jump uses fuel in direct<BR>
>proportion to the ratio of jump to maximum jump (FFS1, p42). I thought<BR>
>there was a minimum consumption of 1-parsec's worth of fuel, but I<BR>
>can't find any reference for it.<BR>
<BR>
Me neither. But you could argue / handwave a 10% minimum on the basis <BR>
that J1 is the minimum level and the jump governor steps down (early <BR>
models just help manage the jump).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:09:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
<BR>
>For what it's worth, I still think President Clinton would have<BR>
>improved his well-tarnished historical standing if he'd <BR>
>responded to Lewinskygate questions with one these two <BR>
>statements:<BR>
<BR>
He would have gotten in less trouble if he'd just told the truth<BR>
at that deposition in the sexual harassment/discrimination case.<BR>
 There would have been no harm, anyway, as the value of that<BR>
case was not the final settlement or judgment amount but the<BR>
fact that the case was ongoing and distracting from official<BR>
duties.  Indeed, all of his apparently reasonable settlement<BR>
offers were rejected.  <BR>
<BR>
If he'd just told the truth, there would have been less<BR>
diminution of his political power, of his ability to run the<BR>
executive branch.  So what if he ended up paying more in the<BR>
litigation?  Power is worth a lot more than money, and he is<BR>
rich enough not to worry about it -- and it seems that the<BR>
pension for ex-presidents is in the good six figures.  <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, if he had to pay too much, he could just have become the<BR>
first sitting president to file for protection under the<BR>
bankruptcy laws.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
P.S. I always counsel my clients to tell the truth, because it<BR>
usually comes out anyway.  That's probably why I don't find<BR>
myself representing defendants in fraud cases -- the chemistry<BR>
just isn't right.  (I commonly represent plaintiffs in business<BR>
and securities fraud litigation.)<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:22:16 -0500<BR>
From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
So, is anyone going to DragonCon in Atlanta this year?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:33:36 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Mire Run NPC and  stuff<BR>
<BR>
Some great person sent a NPC writeup for a Sword Worlder bush pilot to the<BR>
list, as an NPC. Unfortunatly I mis-filed him, and could the author please<BR>
send him to me by email ?<BR>
<BR>
That will make *two* NPCs from my request. People, would you like me to<BR>
spend my time on the Ground Car and the Sound System, or on writing up NPCs<BR>
?<BR>
<BR>
Also, thanks to Jens for the appreciation of FS' attempt to corner the<BR>
market in hi-tech elephant-borne weaponary. While I like doing this, thanks<BR>
helps :)<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
PS Glenn - I know it's been said, but great writeup on Vargr Wrestling.<BR>
<BR>
PPS Have John Hamilton and Doug Berry stopped feuding yet ? Or do I have to<BR>
think up some other madness from the depths of FS' labs to distract them<BR>
(note to Leonard : the old tac nuke in the trebuchet trick is suboptimal<BR>
because the range is too short, and nuke dampers are too common).<BR>
<BR>
PPS What is the half-life of californium ? And how long does it take to open<BR>
a damper box, anyway ?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:26:39 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment <BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>If he'd just told the truth, there would have been less<BR>
>diminution of his political power, of his ability to run the<BR>
>executive branch.  So what if he ended up paying more in the<BR>
>litigation?  Power is worth a lot more than money, and he is<BR>
>rich enough not to worry about it -- and it seems that the<BR>
>pension for ex-presidents is in the good six figures.  <BR>
<BR>
I've heard that, as things now stand, the Honorable Mr. Clinton<BR>
will have the honor of leaving the Oval Office with the lowest net<BR>
financial worth of any president this century. We won't say anything<BR>
about his personal worth...<G><BR>
<BR>
Enough people owe him favors, he'll do fine. It's the guy who's a dollar<BR>
short that misses dinner, the guy who goes broke in the millions<BR>
will never miss a meal.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
(OK, OK, I'll stop...I paraphrased Heinlein at the end, is that ObTrav<BR>
enough?)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:48:40 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:59:59   Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> Yes, your right. But this doesn't apply to the 3I,<BR>
>> since those break-throughs are not included in the<BR>
>> game. The 3I is more a feudal 1980 with spaceships.<BR>
><BR>
>Okay, fair enough John. Let's imagine, for the sake of this discussion, that<BR>
>J-Man is right, and that three thousand years from now everything is<BR>
>completely different. Humans are a digital hivemind, and effectively<BR>
>immortal. Bodies can be generated via a combination of nanotechnology and<BR>
>genetic engineering. Humans can completely control their environments from<BR>
>top to bottom.<BR>
><BR>
>What would adventures look like? What would interaction between characters,<BR>
>who are merely semi-distinct elements of a digital network, look like? What<BR>
>sort of things might mankind pursue once total environmental control has<BR>
>removed want and need, while total immortality has been attained.<BR>
><BR>
>In short, what would a roleplaying game look like in this universe? Would it<BR>
>be fun? Would the characters have any personal control over their own<BR>
>destinies? Does such a background support a small group of players with a<BR>
>high degree of autonomy? Or will campaigns come down to the will of the<BR>
>collective Hive mind?<BR>
><BR>
We are the Borg, existance as you know it has come to the end, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile. :)<BR>
<BR>
How about a human minor race that met the culture described above.  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:52:30 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Wright" <nick@corlecca.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Gentle beings,<BR>
<BR>
Be it known that, barring other claimants, and then only for a short time<BR>
while their claims are..........           investigated ,  ....... I claim<BR>
the planet of Karin in the Five Sisters Subsector.  Although why anyone else<BR>
would want it I don't know.  I intend my main expansions to be of the 1110<BR>
pre FFW era.<BR>
<BR>
I remain, etc. etc,<BR>
<BR>
Nick Wright<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:56:57 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Keith supplements<BR>
<BR>
Paul,  thank you.  You have done a wonderful job putting them all together.  <BR>
To all those who have not picked them up, you had better hurry they are <BR>
priceless.<BR>
   When I looked at the dedication, the art certainly matched the word.  <BR>
When I was initially thinking of death of Mr. Keith, I always pictured his <BR>
drawing of the old blind Marine drill sargent who was remembering his <BR>
younger days as drilling the troops and starships taking off in the <BR>
background.  Then I realized we (on the TML), are more like that drill <BR>
sargent with loss of Mr. Keith.<BR>
   Again Paul thank you, I hope you will find someone who will pick up the <BR>
patent as it would be a shame if all your excellent work goes to down the <BR>
drain and deprive countless others of your noble achievement.  Now, only if <BR>
we could get a hold of the Marc-Loren Secret Correspondence Papers...  Not <BR>
to mention, John Hershman (the original Mr. Cannon)  "History of Charted <BR>
Space"...<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:58:19 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism (was Re: Greek relationships)<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> >I strongly recommend Patterns of Culture, is the most interesting <BR>
> >Anthropology book I have ever read.<BR>
<BR>
> Did Ruth Benedict get the wool pulled over her eyes by the Dobu and the <BR>
> Kwaikiutl as badly as the Samoans did to her friend Margaret Mead? <G><BR>
<BR>
Some Anthropologists believe Mead's inaccuracies may have been <BR>
do to deliberate distortions rather than accidental ones.<BR>
I don't have enough Anthropology training/reading to say for<BR>
sure. I note that Coming of Age in Samoa focused on one culture<BR>
where "Patterns of Culture" discusses culture in general.<BR>
<BR>
> Seriously, has _Patterns of Culture_ stood up better for 11 years than<BR>
> _Coming of Age in Samoa_ has for 27? Time can be pretty hard on<BR>
> soft science works.<BR>
<BR>
Patterns of Culture was written in 1934 & is therefore 66.<BR>
<BR>
When she wrote "Patterns of Culture" Benedict used three cultures<BR>
_as_examples_ and used them to discuss culture in general.<BR>
The applicability and interest (at least to me) was in the<BR>
discussions of culture in general. Her accounts of the<BR>
Dobu  as a paranoid culture do not _have_ to be 100% accurate<BR>
in all respects for her general description of the culture, as<BR>
paranoid, to be applicable. Similarly her descriptions of<BR>
Apollonian Cultures (the Zuni IIRC) and Dionysian cultures<BR>
are, especially for Traveller fans, useful even if less than<BR>
100% accurate.<BR>
<BR>
When you (or at least when I) read "Patterns of Culture" you<BR>
are exposed to cultures that are far more "alien" than 98+% <BR>
of all the science fiction out there. <BR>
<BR>
> I think a problem with cultural relativism is one of differential results.<BR>
> Isn't it possible that the paranoid Dobu and the megalomaniacal Kwaikiutl <BR>
> aren't examples of different standards of "normal", but are instead<BR>
> examples of dysfunctional cultures? <BR>
<BR>
Define dysfunctional please.<BR>
<BR>
> It may be a result of resource availabilities - which will shape local<BR>
> cultures anyway - but I don't see the Dobu or the Kwaikiutl rising as<BR>
> a powerful cultural force any time soon. <BR>
<BR>
The point is not how likely to conquer the world these cultures <BR>
are/were. The point is that - within the areas they controlled -<BR>
these cultures were 'successful' in the sense that people<BR>
were born, grew up, had kids, grew old, and died without<BR>
experiencing the destruction of that culture. <BR>
<BR>
In Traveller terms each system is isolated from each other <BR>
system by a minimum of a weeks travel. Many (most?) 'historical' <BR>
cultures, even when travel was limited to muscle powered<BR>
methods, had closer neighbors than that. Given the looseness<BR>
of the canonical Imperium the concepts of planetary cultures<BR>
as alien as the Dobu should not be unlikely.<BR>
<BR>
> I'll even bet their cultures are<BR>
> in serious danger of dying out or changing radically...not a good sign<BR>
> for the health of a culture, no matter what the cause.<BR>
<BR>
Current global culture is more intrusive than the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
A culture can be perfectly healthy (internally) and still be<BR>
incapable of dealing with outside changes and threats. If a<BR>
giant asteroid were to strike the earth and wipe out the<BR>
human race would this prove that every human culture was<BR>
'unhealthy'? It might prove that they should have devoted<BR>
more effort to spaceships, nukes, and telescopes but I don't<BR>
think it would prove that the cultures were unhealthy.<BR>
<BR>
> I can't believe that anyone with historical awareness would claim that<BR>
> there is no such thing as a dysfunctional culture. It's even a common<BR>
> claim of the loudest supporters of cultural relativism as a philosophy<BR>
> that western culture itself is dysfunctional, therefore they cannot<BR>
> argue that some cultures can't be healthier than others. <BR>
<BR>
This is not an argument Benedict, or I, made.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:01:06 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
>  you wrote:<BR>
> >Given this background, a lesbian Empress would provoke the same general<BR>
> >reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a lesbian world leader would today.<BR>
> >In other words, a scandal.  <BR>
<BR>
> *grin* Never read "The Forever War", have you?<BR>
<BR>
I think that what he was trying to say was that in interviews<BR>
with Traveller designers they have noted that the Imperium<BR>
has a culture much like that of the US at the time they<BR>
wrote it (1977-1985 mostly). Therefore the notion that<BR>
openly non heterosexual political leaders would be looked<BR>
upon with less than 100% acceptance is not invalid.<BR>
If you want to use current (year 2000) US & 'western' culture<BR>
as a model you would still have to conclude that non<BR>
heterosexuality is still frowned upon. As an example, in <BR>
both your state, California, and my state, Alaska, voters <BR>
have recently rejected same sex marriages by margins of 2-1 <BR>
or better.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand the Imperium can, and is by me, perceived<BR>
to have more of a 'As long as you don't do it in public<BR>
and frighten the horses.' attitude.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The culture depicted in "The Forever War" is more alien<BR>
than the culture of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:51:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 11:19 AM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
>Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
>machen?  <BR>
<BR>
Alle Hagel die Pinguin Herr!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:11:01 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:07:24   John Wood wrote:<BR>
>Scout Harris <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
>>Depending on how many oceans (or large bodies of water) there are on<BR>
>>the brightside, and how prevailing wind patterns carry the moisture<BR>
>>that builds up due to evaporation, it may be that rain will occur quite<BR>
>>a ways into the brightside.<BR>
><BR>
>That would certainly be handy for an agricultural planet.<BR>
><BR>
>>Keep in mind that Terrain, especially mountains also changes weather<BR>
>>patterns.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm finding there's an awful lot of things to keep in mind! And I<BR>
>haven't even got to the ecology yet...<BR>
><BR>
>>Question: When a world is locked into a 1:1 ratio like this, does (or<BR>
>>can) the shape change, ie a bulge form on the bright side?<BR>
><BR>
>If so, wouldn't there be a corresponding bulge on the dark side, making<BR>
>it an ellipsoid rather than pear-shaped planet?<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking egg shaped, with the blunt end on the darkside. Although I feel that thismay not be likely, it may be an intersting shape to design a world on.<BR>
<BR>
Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:20:26 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
"Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Eh. Ask twenty different "true" homosexuals, you'll probably get<BR>
> twenty-one different answers.<BR>
> I've seen a survey done in the United States where the majority of<BR>
> respondents who self-identified as homosexual had performed sexually at <BR>
> least once with someone of the opposite gender, and that a significant<BR>
> percentage did so with some frequency even *after* that point in<BR>
> their lives when they had identified themselves as homosexual. This was <BR>
> on a survey where "bisexual" was presented as a self-identification <BR>
> choice.<BR>
<BR>
> I recall a significant percentage of self-identified heterosexuals <BR>
> reporting one or more homosexual experiences, so it apparently<BR>
> goes both ways.<BR>
<BR>
You do realize that your use of the phrase "goes both ways"<BR>
is a discussion of people who self identify as homosexual<BR>
or heterosexual is 1) funny and 2) begs the question of the <BR>
validity of these self identifications.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:25:50 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
I'll take Thanber/Querion.<BR>
<BR>
Are we going to attempt to decide on some guidelines of what should be in<BR>
these write-ups?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2156<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2157<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Heirs<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment (was re: Re: F uture culture of the 3I)<BR>
Landgrab in hyperwarp<BR>
Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Jump Goveners<BR>
re:  Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Another OTU variant<BR>
RE: DragonCon<BR>
RE: TML Land Grab<BR>
Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:28:10 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Heirs<BR>
<BR>
At 11:00 PM -0500 3/21/00, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
><< In Traveller, the production of heirs by anything other than<BR>
>  normal means is not seen, or (if we go to TNE or some source<BR>
>  I don't have) worth specific mention.   >><BR>
><BR>
>There's a lot of stuff we didn't mention, and not all of it was because we<BR>
>didn't think it was important.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
So are you saying that you intended that cloning and stuff are<BR>
indeed common ways for nobles to produce heirs?  Or that you<BR>
didn't address it either way and that I'm reading to much<BR>
into the text (which I believe we call "interpreting canon"<BR>
on the TML :-)?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:26:06 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
>Define dysfunctional please.<BR>
<BR>
Let's see - how about, excessively restricts people from attaining<BR>
their individual potentials, in excess of the amount required for the<BR>
continuation and stability of the culture?<BR>
<BR>
How about a culture that encourages (or even requires) destruction<BR>
(or at least demonization) of other cultures? Would that be a sign<BR>
of dysfunction in a culture, or would it simply be a call to study the<BR>
culture further and explain (in carefully neutral tones) why this behaviour<BR>
makes perfect sense and is entirely normal for this culture? <BR>
<BR>
Peter again:<BR>
>The point is not how likely to conquer the world these cultures <BR>
>are/were. The point is that - within the areas they controlled -<BR>
>these cultures were 'successful' in the sense that people<BR>
>were born, grew up, had kids, grew old, and died without<BR>
>experiencing the destruction of that culture. <BR>
<BR>
IMO, an indicator of the health of a culture is how well that culture<BR>
adapts and attracts. Adapts to new situations, and attracts new<BR>
members. If this is a true indicator, than the healthiest culture may<BR>
very well "conquer the world". It's also possible that conquering the<BR>
world is a sign of a sick culture instead of a healthy one, but that<BR>
will probably depend on how the conquering happens.<BR>
<BR>
It's a nebulous concept, that a culture can be dysfunctional. Put it on<BR>
a continuum, there are dysfunctional people, dysfunctional couples,<BR>
dysfunctional families. A person can be born, grow old and die in a<BR>
dysfunctional family, and recreate the familiar pattern for the next<BR>
generation to enjoy. The fact that a culture has persisted for a generation<BR>
or a hundred generations only means it has survived so far, it can be<BR>
a terrible thing for most of the people in it.<BR>
<BR>
Peter again:<BR>
>A culture can be perfectly healthy (internally) and still be<BR>
>incapable of dealing with outside changes and threats. If a<BR>
>giant asteroid were to strike the earth and wipe out the<BR>
>human race would this prove that every human culture was<BR>
>'unhealthy'? It might prove that they should have devoted<BR>
>more effort to spaceships, nukes, and telescopes but I don't<BR>
>think it would prove that the cultures were unhealthy.<BR>
<BR>
I never claimed the destruction or survival of a culture as proof,<BR>
I merely held them up as evidence. If two aboriginal tribes are both<BR>
enslaved by Europeans, and one vanishes as a seperate people over<BR>
a century of bondage while the other preserves cultural identity and<BR>
traditions until the domination is ended, which was the healthier<BR>
culture to begin with? That would probably be a relevant study...but two <BR>
tribes wiped out to the last child by foriegn plagues would show nothing.<BR>
<BR>
Peter again:<BR>
>> I can't believe that anyone with historical awareness would claim that<BR>
>> there is no such thing as a dysfunctional culture. It's even a common<BR>
>> claim of the loudest supporters of cultural relativism as a philosophy<BR>
>> that western culture itself is dysfunctional, therefore they cannot<BR>
>> argue that some cultures can't be healthier than others. <BR>
><BR>
>This is not an argument Benedict, or I, made.<BR>
<BR>
True, but it is (as I said) a very common one. I was talking about more<BR>
than the statements of you, Meade or Benedict.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting, I'd not heard before that Mead's iffy work in Samoa may<BR>
have been deliberate distortions on her part. That would make her<BR>
not a fool, but a fraud. Were she the former, her error could be fixed by<BR>
more careful work, as nearly any honest error can be fixed. Were she<BR>
the latter, her credibility would always be suspect - especially in a<BR>
soft science field like anthropology.<BR>
<BR>
I apologize for messing up the publication dates, I knew Mead's work<BR>
was far earlier than the 1970's. I misread some current reprint dates<BR>
as first publication dates, and did not properly check the work.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:32:45 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> <BR>
> Subject: Re:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> >1. Neo-Nazis found the "Fourth Reich" somewhere. (Give the <BR>
> >relatively low cost of interstellar travel in Traveller, I'd <BR>
> >consider this one just about a "given")<BR>
> <BR>
> Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
> Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
> machen?  <BR>
<BR>
Un royaume de onze cent dix-sept ans, non . Quant au <BR>
problme de Droyne, comme Retief a dit: " Aucune population, <BR>
aucun malaise populaire. " Non? <BR>
<BR>
Parlez en Anglais sur le TML s'il vous plat, je ne parlent <BR>
pas la langue Allemande.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:34:05 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
>You do realize that your use of the phrase "goes both ways"<BR>
>is a discussion of people who self identify as homosexual<BR>
>or heterosexual is 1) funny and 2) begs the question of the <BR>
>validity of these self identifications.<BR>
<BR>
1) You're a riot, Pete.<BR>
<BR>
2) You didn't get my point. Of course the validity of these labels is<BR>
called into question, that was the entire result of the survey! If your<BR>
labels don't fit well, their validity declines. "Homosexuals have sex<BR>
with their own gender" turns out to be mostly true, and vice versa.<BR>
So is everyone bisexual? Even if they had one same-sex encounter<BR>
two decades ago, or vice versa?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:42:06 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
<BR>
> Heck, if it was that common, why was the idea that Stephon<BR>
> had a clone something that didn't occur to Dullinor, let<BR>
> alone to a lot of people until well after the assassination.<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor knew Strephon had clones. Dulinor himself apparently<BR>
had clones. What Dulinor did not know was that Strephon<BR>
had the gall to have a clone talk to _him_, an _Archduke_<BR>
(and to the Aslan Ambassador but I'm sure Dulinor rated<BR>
himself as more important that the Ambassador).<BR>
<BR>
In a feudal relationship the vassal must pledge himself<BR>
to his superior. A feudal relationship flows both ways.<BR>
By sending his clone to talk to Dulinor, as if the clone<BR>
were the Emperor, Strephon showed disrespect to his<BR>
feudal responsibility to Dulinor.<BR>
<BR>
Noble clones are supposed to be used to talk to peasants<BR>
and petty bureaucrats not to _Archdukes_.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:52:22 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I stand corrected, missed a few, is this more up to date?<BR>
<BR>
Heya/Regina---Doug Berry<BR>
Ylaven/Lanth---Paul Campbell<BR>
Mongo/Jewell---Glenn Goffin<BR>
Esalin/Jewell---Luther Martin<BR>
Wonstar/Five Sisters---Micheal Houghton<BR>
Rorise/Mora---AB (maybe?)<BR>
Aster/Glisten---AB<BR>
L'oeil d'Dieu---Robert O'Connor<BR>
Yori/Regina---Peter Trevor<BR>
Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor---Volker Greimann<BR>
Tavonni/Vilis---David Jaques-Watson<BR>
Wypoc/Lanth---William F. Hostman<BR>
875-496/Five Sisters---Hypercleats<BR>
Prilissa/Trin's Veil---John Wood<BR>
Spirelle/Lunion---Steve Charlton<BR>
Excalibur/Sword Worlds---Colin Michael<BR>
Zila/Aramis---Derek Dees<BR>
Karin/Five Sisters---Nick Wright<BR>
<BR>
And this is all going to be at:<BR>
The Great TML2000 Spinward Marches Landgrab -<BR>
http://www.downport.com/landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Right? BTW, to avoid any confusion, Justice Hypercleats(eris@sierratel.com)<BR>
is not the same as Eris Reddoch.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:56:15 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I recall a significant percentage of self-identified heterosexuals <BR>
> reporting one or more homosexual experiences, so it apparently<BR>
> goes both ways.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
So to speak.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:05:51 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:58:21 -0500 (EST), "Rupert Boleyn"<BR>
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On 21 Mar 00, at 12:09, Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> > How do you *you* feel about the Chinese delicacy of "well-aged eggs"?<BR>
 <BR>
>> Or cooked bird nests?<BR>
<BR>
>This I dunno about.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if I could wrap my mind around the concept of<BR>
wrapping my mouth around these.  If I didn't know what they were<BR>
at the time, I could probably manage. Unless it was visually<BR>
obvious what they were.<BR>
<BR>
>> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
<BR>
>Sounds Ok<BR>
<BR>
This, I don't really see a problem with.<BR>
<BR>
>> Cooked dog?<BR>
<BR>
>Yep. An ex-flatmate told me how to cook dog so as to avoid the <BR>
>gameiness and stringyness. Haven't tried it, though.<BR>
<BR>
This is another thing that I would need to not know about when<BR>
trying it - similarly with cat or horse.<BR>
<BR>
>> Raw fish?<BR>
<BR>
>Been there, done that.<BR>
<BR>
Routine, for me.<BR>
<BR>
>> Raw, *living*, slimy things in shells?   (oysters)<BR>
<BR>
>Yum.<BR>
<BR>
Not my thing, but conceptually OK.<BR>
<BR>
>How about raw red meat?<BR>
<BR>
Steak Tartare?  Not bad...<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:03:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment (was re: Re: F uture culture of the 3I)<BR>
<BR>
Smith, Walter wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Slick Willy wasn't squeaky clean. I still think his generous gift of<BR>
> major American coal reserves to perpetual parkland helped the Lippo<BR>
> Group (Bill Clinton's campaign contributors from Asia) far more than<BR>
> it helped the Americans who had the pleasure of the Federal government<BR>
> closing down any attempt they could have made at developing the desert<BR>
> around their home towns.<BR>
> <BR>
> For what it's worth, I still think President Clinton would have<BR>
> improved his well-tarnished historical standing if he'd responded<BR>
> to Lewinskygate questions with one these two statements:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1) Yup!! Had her, she had me, and boy, was she GREAT!!<BR>
> <BR>
> 2) You are a filthy voyeur. I refuse to answer questions about such<BR>
> private matters. Why don't you go point your camera at something<BR>
> important, like the nightmare in Kosovo?<BR>
> <BR>
> (oh, wait, he tried #2...)<BR>
<BR>
<general flame mode><BR>
And Al Gore is Clinton's Vice President. I sure hope Tipper can do for her<BR>
hubby what Hillary apparently couldn't for hers...............<BR>
NEVER have I seen a group of four politicians (let's face it, Tipper's one<BR>
too!) piss me off so much in my life!<BR>
I can't wait till I get the chance to vote Al out of office!<BR>
<BR>
</general flame mode><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:02:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Landgrab in hyperwarp<BR>
<BR>
I have made six updates in the last five hours.  Get yours before the choice<BR>
world are gone!  http://www.downport.com/landgrab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:09:55 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff has it on his web site:<BR>
<BR>
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/resources/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Myers wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hi all,<BR>
> <BR>
> Could someone please send a copy of the Vilani font my way, or direct me to<BR>
> where I can find a copy. My preferred site, Uncle Bear, no longer has the<BR>
> font on their site.<BR>
> <BR>
> It's a shame, really. I resisted hoarding a copy away with the reasoning I<BR>
> could always go back and get it. Back to the packrat philosophy....<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks,<BR>
> <BR>
> Glenn<BR>
> <BR>
> Glenn E. Myers<BR>
> Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:04:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
A few have emailed directly, so the list is even bigger, now.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
> And this is all going to be at:<BR>
> The Great TML2000 Spinward Marches Landgrab -<BR>
> http://www.downport.com/landgrab<BR>
><BR>
> Right? BTW, to avoid any confusion, Justice<BR>
Hypercleats(eris@sierratel.com)<BR>
> is not the same as Eris Reddoch.<BR>
<BR>
I noticed.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:54:35 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Jump Goveners<BR>
<BR>
	The Original (CT book 2) Starship design system used jump fuel based<BR>
upon the power of the drive rather than the length of the jump.<BR>
<BR>
	"The jump drive requires fuel to make one jump (regardless of jump<BR>
number) based upon the formula: 0.1MJn, where M equals the mass<BR>
displacement of the starship and Jn equals the jump number of the drive" <BR>
<BR>
	Traveller, Book 2, p. 6<BR>
<BR>
	CT Book 5, first edition p. 32 has the Jump Governor description:<BR>
<BR>
"Jump Governor: It is possible to procure a jump governor for ships<BR>
produced according to Book 2. It allows such a ship to utilize fuel more<BR>
efficiently; instead of consuming all fuel when performing a jump<BR>
regardless of jump number, the ship will consume fuel equal to 0.1MJn,<BR>
where Jn is the actual jump number used, rather than the maximum jump<BR>
number available. Available at any industrial world with tech level 10<BR>
or higher. Cost: Cr300,000. Mass: 1 ton. Ship produced according to<BR>
[Book 5] already have the jump governor as part of their drives."<BR>
<BR>
	So it was a patch for moving forward. MT, TNE, T4, and GT drives<BR>
already have a jump governor installed.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:15:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
<BR>
>	Separately, someone talked about using artillery in a >direct<BR>
fire role against upper floors of skyscrapers.  As a <BR>
<BR>
That was me.<BR>
<BR>
>former artilleryman, I'd be eager to contribute to my side as<BR>
>much as possible but just plain unsure whether that would be a<BR>
>viable idea.  Some reasons for doubting would be that I would<BR>
>have to expose myself to direct HMG and other  automatic<BR>
>weapons fire in order to obtain a clear shot, and the <BR>
>awkwardness of hip firing a direct shot at an unusually high<BR>
>altitude difference.  But that's towed, TL 7 to 8 artillery <BR>
>with no appreciable armor shielding.  Exact equipments and <BR>
>tactical situations come in a wide range of choices.<BR>
<BR>
The Israelis used US-made self-propelled howitzers -- M-105? --<BR>
which are armored, tracked vehicles.  They may not be as heavily<BR>
armored as main battle tanks, but they keep the machine gun<BR>
bullets out.  As I recall, they were pretty successful at<BR>
hitting upper storeys of tall buildings.  I think that I read<BR>
about this in some popular news magazine, like Newsweek.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>	A really fascinating study was written by John Ellis in >1980,<BR>
called The Sharp End.  <BR>
<BR>
Thanks.  That sounds like good summer beach reading.<BR>
<BR>
I don't have any plans to go to any conventions outside the San<BR>
Francisco area, but if you're ever out this way, drop us an<BR>
email beforehand and maybe we can set something up.  Kristian,<BR>
Luther, and I play one Saturday a month (more or less) from<BR>
about 11 a.m. until late afternoon.  Kristian has an excellent<BR>
gaming space.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:29:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The point was that we do want our leaders to be honorable - it is not<BR>
> a concept alien to modern Western culture, as someone else<BR>
> proposed.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, with all due respect Jason, I would advise you to read what it was<BR>
that I actually wrote. That is not at all what I wrote.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't write that we don't want our leaders to be honorable, or that honor<BR>
is a concept that is alien to our culture. What I did write was that the<BR>
government of the Imperium was aristocratic, and it's strongly implied that<BR>
the term means, as it once did, "rule by the best." I further said that this<BR>
style of government is alien to modern Western minds.<BR>
<BR>
That bears no resemblance to how you characterized my position.<BR>
<BR>
To put my position another way, it's been a long, long time since the<BR>
institution of noble rule by succession has been practiced in the West. That<BR>
is largely because grievances arose with that particular style of<BR>
government, and Western cultures oriented themselves in such a way towards<BR>
the aristocracy that they no longer appear as viable.<BR>
<BR>
Governments and cultures are linked in ways that are very, very difficult to<BR>
unravel. You can't look at one without looking at the other.<BR>
<BR>
Assuming that you're from America, I'm surprised that you would disagree<BR>
with this. The very notion that every person is created equal must be tossed<BR>
out by a society which truly believes that some people are simply born to<BR>
rule, and that birth into a specific family makes a potential ruler far more<BR>
able to live up to some honorable ideal.<BR>
<BR>
Further, this society must also toss out the window the very concept of<BR>
self-governance, for whatever reason. That one's a no-brainer. After all,<BR>
the people have no say whatsoever in how the Imperium is run.<BR>
<BR>
There are a hell of a lot of other aspects of culture that would have to be<BR>
tossed, changed or modified before this concept could be familiar to the<BR>
point that I would say that it's no longer alien.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, I would like to take a moment to point out that Dulinor pretty much<BR>
seems to be a modern Westerner tossed into the midst of this society, and<BR>
look at the havoc that was caused. The Ine Givar don't sound like they're<BR>
fighting for the same ideals that many Westerners hold dear to day, and yet<BR>
they're nasty terrorists.<BR>
<BR>
In short, "we" are the bad guys.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know about you, but this throws a big red flag up for me that the<BR>
culture of the Imperium is alien to us. This flies directly in the face of<BR>
your original comments on the subject, which seemed to indicate that the<BR>
Imperium looks a lot like the culture of the late 20th century.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:27:38 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Another OTU variant<BR>
<BR>
At 01:38 PM 3/20/00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hi!<BR>
><BR>
>I just had an idea for a variant of Our Traveller Universe:<BR>
><BR>
>Everything is just as canon says. Except one thing: It's not humaniti, it's<BR>
>Lizarditi that was spread by the Ancients!<BR>
<BR>
         [snip]<BR>
<BR>
         <grin>  As the players in one of my TNEC PBEMs are finding out, <BR>
this is the background premise of MTU...<BR>
<BR>
>Okay, personally I won't use this variant for my campaign, but I like the<BR>
>ideas, I must admit.<BR>
><BR>
>What do _you_ think about it?<BR>
<BR>
         I think that its a logical leap, given that statue in _Shadows_....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:19:23 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to try to make it out from California.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of James Earl<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 1:22 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: DragonCon<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> So, is anyone going to DragonCon in Atlanta this year?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:19:27 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
Hey, you don't have me down for Patinir / Aramis!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> Sword-Worlder<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 12:19 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: TML Land Grab<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> So noted on http://www.downport.com/landgrab, challenges accepted for 24<BR>
> hours ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
> Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
> www.downport.com<BR>
> The Traveller Domain<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
> > Okay, I've been debating this for a while, and I'm gonna go for it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Is Efate/Regina still available?<BR>
> > (It's been my "home away from home" for years now...)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:36:42 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-K'kree Military Tactics: 1000 Mr Eds v. the Magnificent 7 PCs (very long)<BR>
<BR>
At 05:46 AM 3/20/00, you wrote:<BR>
>At 12:37 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
         [snip]<BR>
<BR>
> >Their orbital weapons probably won't fire danger close to their ground<BR>
> >troops without a clear target, and their orbital sensors (depending on their<BR>
> >quality) may not recgonize the M7 as enemies, given their proximity to a<BR>
> >large friendly troop concentration.<BR>
><BR>
>Very dangerous assumption. Best bet is to get into terrain that both<BR>
>decreases the effectiveness of orbital fire, and plays upon K'Kree fears. A<BR>
>nice, thick, triple canopy rainforest would do the trick.<BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
         Um, Doug...  what do *you* call "effective orbital <BR>
fire"....  Given the yields you can get out of a crowbar, and the K'Kree <BR>
total dis-concern with "Green-Friendly" warfare....  Wouldn't they just <BR>
tear up a couple of square kilometres around where the bad guys were <BR>
suspected to be?<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:43:59 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> >> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
> <BR>
> >Sounds Ok<BR>
> <BR>
> This, I don't really see a problem with.<BR>
<BR>
Sigh. If you knew how they _harvested_ those things you sure as heck<BR>
would! Even if you don't LIKE sharks, it's a horrifically cruel way of<BR>
doing it.<BR>
<BR>
The mania for shark fin soup has lead to such horrendous overfishing to<BR>
the point that many shark species are endangered. (as when any culture<BR>
with several billion people get a mania for something...)<BR>
<BR>
oBTrav...imagin a Pop 9 or A world, with a moderately uniform culture. <BR>
<BR>
Something becomes massively popular there, say a certain animal from a<BR>
world a few parsecs away. Before the fad expires in six months or so,<BR>
they could have wiped out the species...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:44:12 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 2000 at 12:59 (GMT  -0900), Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
>In Traveller terms each system is isolated from each other <BR>
>system by a minimum of a weeks travel. Many (most?) 'historical' <BR>
>cultures, even when travel was limited to muscle powered<BR>
>methods, had closer neighbors than that. Given the looseness<BR>
>of the canonical Imperium the concepts of planetary cultures<BR>
>as alien as the Dobu should not be unlikely.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Current global culture is more intrusive than the Imperium.<BR>
><BR>
>A culture can be perfectly healthy (internally) and still be<BR>
>incapable of dealing with outside changes and threats. If a<BR>
>giant asteroid were to strike the earth and wipe out the<BR>
<BR>
>human race would this prove that every human culture was<BR>
>'unhealthy'? It might prove that they should have devoted<BR>
>more effort to spaceships, nukes, and telescopes but I don't<BR>
>think it would prove that the cultures were unhealthy.<BR>
<BR>
	Peter makes points I agree (almost) completely with.  The Imperium's<BR>
culture is a small population spread over a huge geographic area,<BR>
consisting primarily of people directly involved in the Imperial<BR>
government. Hmm, wait, I suppose the population at large near Sylea might<BR>
exhibit a cultural homogeneity, and one that is consistent with the overall<BR>
Imperial culture.  But still....in most of the Imperium, tis true.  Also, I<BR>
agree that anthropolgists aren't supposed to be in the business of<BR>
evaluating which culture is "better" or "worse" than another.  Any more<BR>
than chemists evaluate whether nitroglycerine is "good" or "bad".  Ultimate<BR>
survival of a culture is no judge of whether it is good or bad, either.<BR>
This whole good/bad thing is non sequiter to the discussion, in my POV at<BR>
least.<BR>
<BR>
	The only nit I would pick with Peter is one that most of us are guilty of<BR>
most of the time.  We keep treating a planet as one homogenous culture even<BR>
though most populated worlds have large populations spread over a large<BR>
land area in a great variety of geographical and climatilogical<BR>
environments.  IMTU, most planets have a variety of cultures that exist,<BR>
and there are many pitfalls in judging all inhabitants as being in just one<BR>
culture.  This will tend to be less true near the long-time centers of the<BR>
Vilani and Sylean populations, but still a major factor.  It is *much* less<BR>
true of the Zhodanis, and the Solomanis to some extent are attempting to<BR>
make it less true where they hold sway.  But any planet with a pop factor<BR>
of  7 or 8 is likely to be multicultural.  And almost *has* to be<BR>
multicultural if pop is 9 to C (a billion to a trillion people).  Planets<BR>
with even higher pop factors, or that have had highly developed, high tech<BR>
infrastructures for a long time are likely to start blending together more.<BR>
 Ah, the power of television broadcasting, plentiful communications, and<BR>
easy worldwide travel.  But this blending trend requires centuries, at<BR>
least.  I'm not always consistent about how long is required, and YMMV of<BR>
course.  It's a lot of work to populate the universe with so many different<BR>
cultures.  And I'm lazy, so it's a good thing I don't run Traveller very<BR>
often at all.  I am hoping the Landgrab produces lots of circa 1110 worlds<BR>
with fleshed out local diversity that matches this ideal.  It's also why I<BR>
keep hoping to someday have a fully relational database of all canonical<BR>
information related to every system and NPC.  ;-><BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2157<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2158</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2158<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: Fencing Nitpick<BR>
RE: New Scientist Article<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment (was re: Re: F uture culture of the 3I)<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
Re:Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:46:10 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
<BR>
I wanted to get the learned opinion of the TML on the following I was <BR>
thinking of buying? <BR>
<BR>
1. Judges Guild Ley sector supplement and Crucis Margin supplements? I know <BR>
there has been some criticism of these because of the stellar data...<BR>
<BR>
2.Lee's Guide to Interstellar Adventure <BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:12:33 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
I did the same (re-enactment) for many (too many!) years, but using<BR>
steel blades all the time. Its true that you _can_ take the sword,<BR>
parry in a fashion (blocking), feint (a stroke or block) and do some<BR>
wonderful things with moving the attacker's blade and coming in to<BR>
attack after doing that. But you can't act / react the same way as<BR>
with the smallsword weapons.<BR>
<BR>
What I'd find handy is a good fencing combat method that lets me do<BR>
both (IMTU - Milieu 0 - the Imperium takes umbrage at people letting<BR>
off guns on a ship, so there tends to be a lot more fencing and<BR>
brawling than shooting).<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> William F.<BR>
> Hostman<BR>
> Sent: 21 March 2000 04:23<BR>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Stuart, I would say 'fencing' involves the use of<BR>
> prise-de-fer (feel<BR>
> >of the steel) ... (IMHO).<BR>
><BR>
[snip]<BR>
><BR>
> One thing to keep in mind: A good broadsword wielder CAN<BR>
> fake, feint, and<BR>
> do some other unexpected things.<BR>
><BR>
> I do cut and thrust with a local reenactment group... doing<BR>
> celtic/brittish/scots style cut-and-thrust. We train with<BR>
> padded weapons,<BR>
> but also do some work with live steel.  The worse the blade<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:13:49 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
I often do - what a great game!<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Frank G.<BR>
> Pitt<BR>
> Sent: 21 March 2000 05:16<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > I seem to recall seeing a re-print of that in (I think)<BR>
> "White Dwarf"<BR>
> > and writing in to say that you couldn't fence with a<BR>
> cutlass. Since<BR>
> > then, I've become a fencing coach and I still say that<BR>
> you can't - at<BR>
> > least not in the same way as with a sabre. Its really in the<BR>
> > broadsword class - but that's just a different sort of<BR>
> fencing. IMTU,<BR>
> > rules to cover the whole range could be damn handy -<BR>
> anyone have any?<BR>
><BR>
> Try using En Garde!<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:16:24 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing Nitpick<BR>
<BR>
Ahh well. My french is obviously about as bad as my coach's.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of <BR>
> MJ Dougherty<BR>
> Sent: 19 March 2000 17:47<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Fencing Nitpick<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Prise-de-fer is "Taking of the blade" - gaining control of <BR>
> an opponent's<BR>
> weapon.<BR>
> <BR>
> Sentiment de fer is "feeling of the blade" - deducing an <BR>
> opponent's action<BR>
> by tactile sensation transmitted up the blade.<BR>
> <BR>
> Just a nitpick....<BR>
> <BR>
> Regards<BR>
> <BR>
> MJD<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:17:46 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: New Scientist Article<BR>
<BR>
It does Dom - but I just scanned it in from the mag.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> SD Mooney<BR>
> Sent: 20 March 2000 20:37<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: New Scientist Article<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Hi all,<BR>
><BR>
> The latest New Scientist (18 March 2000) has a section in<BR>
> the middle<BR>
> (Inside Science) called 'Radiation and Risk', which looks<BR>
> like it may<BR>
> be useful reading for background on how radiation can harm you and<BR>
> the levels of doses. I don't know if their website duplicates this,<BR>
> but if it does, I'd snag it.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
> can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:54:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>Parlez en Anglais sur le TML s'il vous plat, je ne parlent <BR>
>pas la langue Allemande.<BR>
<BR>
Votre pardon, s'il vous plait.  Je ne faisait qu'une jeste<BR>
petite.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:44:44 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
While I haven't gotten my comp copies of the book yet (Loren, they ship out<BR>
yet???) and can't comment on page 27 yet, I CAN tell you whats on the<BR>
shipping container on the cover.....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*********<BR>
SPOILER ALERT - If you want to translate it yourself, DON'T scroll down!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
wait for it................................<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The container says........................<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Are you ready???..........................................<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
FS (big letters)<BR>
Famile Spofulam<BR>
High Energy Wpns Div<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
See the electronic sign over the warehouse door to the right between the two<BR>
pilot's (whoe are me and my buddy Pete BTW) heads?  That sign says "Ditzie<BR>
Was Here", and came courtesy Derek Stanley, so blame him ;)  See the notice<BR>
board on the left against the wall and under the cargo container?  Some of<BR>
the things on there:  An import warning on pain-of-death for Denebian<BR>
Tree-Oxen, an ad for a "gentleman's club", a sales notice for a starship<BR>
that says "only flown twice and crashed once", and a couple of other odds &<BR>
ends :)  Oh, and the crewmen's vests, the Lucky Credit is the name of the<BR>
ship that's in Roger Barr's PBEM which I'm a part of<BR>
(http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/lc_yr2.htm).<BR>
<BR>
There ya' have it.  Sorry if I spoiled the fun ;)<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
p.s.  Next time I'm getting Gridlore Technologies and maybe a couple of<BR>
others on there ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Roger Barr<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:24 AM<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: Starports Cover Art<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps you shouldn't translate what the cargo container on the<BR>
> front cover<BR>
> says . . .<BR>
><BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> LOL!!!<BR>
> I can't translate it, but Jesse told me what the Lucky Credit was<BR>
> shipping...<BR>
> <weg><BR>
> "I swear, the manifests said Chak Root Tips..."<BR>
> :)<BR>
> Roger Barr<BR>
> TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
>Oh go on... don't hold me in suspense! Spoil the surprise!<BR>
<BR>
>Scout Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 >   For those who haven't gotten (or haven't looked), be sure to pay<BR>
special<BR>
>attention to the picture on p. 27.<BR>
<BR>
 >   I was thinking "neat" until I read the actual words, at which time I<BR>
>physically winced just because of what I've read in the short time I've<BR>
been<BR>
>on list.  I'll let someone else spoil the surprise...but Ohmygosh, are they<BR>
>CANON now?  The end of the OTU must be near...repent...repent...<BR>
<BR>
 >   "Excuse me, sir, but there are four horsemen who want to have a word<BR>
with<BR>
>you, and one of them is a young girl with a PGMP..."<BR>
<BR>
>--<BR>
>Stormhound<BR>
>DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
>Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
>Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
>Or my JN6 course design page at<BR>
http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:02:25 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]<BR>
<BR>
> The point was that we do want our leaders to be honorable - it is not<BR>
> a concept alien to modern Western culture, as someone else<BR>
> proposed.<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, with all due respect Jason, I would advise you to read what it<BR>
was<BR>
that I actually wrote. That is not at all what I wrote.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't write that we don't want our leaders to be honorable, or that honor<BR>
is a concept that is alien to our culture. What I did write was that the<BR>
government of the Imperium was aristocratic, and it's strongly implied that<BR>
the term means, as it once did, "rule by the best." I further said that this<BR>
style of government is alien to modern Western minds.<<BR>
<BR>
I submit that "rule by the best" is indeed what happens in Western cultures.<BR>
No one is elected president of the United States who doesn't have a<BR>
substantial education and substantial funds.  Not only is it "rule by the<BR>
best" in a material sense, but also in a moral sense - US citizens want the<BR>
best man in more than one sense.  Elections are held with the purpose of<BR>
finding the best man for the job, but there are people who could never<BR>
seriously be considered candidates, and there are some who are obvious<BR>
candidates.<BR>
<BR>
>That bears no resemblance to how you characterized my position.<<BR>
<BR>
I apologize.  I was perhaps focusing on what I saw a significant aspect of<BR>
the position rather than the entirity.<BR>
<BR>
>To put my position another way, it's been a long, long time since the<BR>
institution of noble rule by succession has been practiced in the West. That<BR>
is largely because grievances arose with that particular style of<BR>
government, and Western cultures oriented themselves in such a way towards<BR>
the aristocracy that they no longer appear as viable.<<BR>
<BR>
Rule by succession is about to be put to the test in the US - by George Jr.<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
>Governments and cultures are linked in ways that are very, very difficult<BR>
to<BR>
unravel. You can't look at one without looking at the other.<<BR>
<BR>
Granted, to a point.  The attitudes and morals of the US government can be<BR>
very different from somewhere like Alaska or Utah.<BR>
<BR>
>Assuming that you're from America,< <BR>
<BR>
You are correct in your assumption - Utah to be specific.<BR>
<BR>
>I'm surprised that you would disagree<BR>
with this. The very notion that every person is created equal must be tossed<BR>
out by a society which truly believes that some people are simply born to<BR>
rule, and that birth into a specific family makes a potential ruler far more<BR>
able to live up to some honorable ideal.<<BR>
<BR>
I would interpret the notion that "all men are created equal" to mean that<BR>
all people deserve equal rights.  It is not intended to maintain that all<BR>
people have equal opportunity, and the idea that people born to materially<BR>
well-off families, or families that have a reputation for integrity are<BR>
themselves destined to be well off or honest IS present in Western culture.<BR>
The various Bushes are governors now and possibly future presidents because<BR>
of their family.  They may have ended that way anyway by talent, but their<BR>
family certainly gave them a good start.<BR>
<BR>
>Further, this society must also toss out the window the very concept of<BR>
self-governance, for whatever reason. That one's a no-brainer. After all,<BR>
the people have no say whatsoever in how the Imperium is run.<<BR>
<BR>
The situation is analgous to modern government in the US.  The people of<BR>
Utah, for instance, have quite a bit of say in how Utah is run (their<BR>
"world"), but relatively little influence on how the rest of the nation is<BR>
run or on how the national government can interact with Utah; a fact ably<BR>
demonstrated by President Clinton when he grabbed the Grand Escalante<BR>
Staircase national park for the Fedral Government with no input by local<BR>
government.<BR>
True, we do have some say in national government, but the power of a single<BR>
state (and a somewhat remote state with a relatively small population) is<BR>
not much more significant.<BR>
In the Third Imperium, each world has greater freedom in how they govern<BR>
their own affairs but little influence (except through the Moot) on the<BR>
Imperial government.<BR>
<BR>
>There are a hell of a lot of other aspects of culture that would have to be<BR>
tossed, changed or modified before this concept could be familiar to the<BR>
point that I would say that it's no longer alien.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, I would like to take a moment to point out that Dulinor pretty much<BR>
seems to be a modern Westerner tossed into the midst of this society, and<BR>
look at the havoc that was caused. The Ine Givar don't sound like they're<BR>
fighting for the same ideals that many Westerners hold dear to day, and yet<BR>
they're nasty terrorists.<<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor was something of a socialist democrat, but the reason he caused<BR>
havoc is because instead of waiting for the reforms that Strephen was<BR>
already making towards increasing local authority (in particular, through<BR>
increasing the power of the Archdukes), he decided to attempt to force the<BR>
change overnight, and the Imperium rejected that.  Dulinor was just trying<BR>
to speed a process that Strephen had already started, and his impatience<BR>
caused the war.<BR>
<BR>
>In short, "we" are the bad guys.<<BR>
<BR>
If anyone was the "bad guy" of the rebellion, it was Lucan - the man who was<BR>
trying to be the next Hitler.  Dulinor was a capable leader who made a bad<BR>
choice.<BR>
<BR>
>I don't know about you, but this throws a big red flag up for me that the<BR>
culture of the Imperium is alien to us. This flies directly in the face of<BR>
your original comments on the subject, which seemed to indicate that the<BR>
Imperium looks a lot like the culture of the late 20th century.<<BR>
<BR>
I still maintain that it does look much like our own culture.  The<BR>
hereditary monarchy is the biggest difference politically (even then, there<BR>
are many Western nations which still give lip service to a monarchy), but<BR>
the social culture of the Imperium (in particular moral values) is much<BR>
closer than you would think any society 3,000 years away from us would be.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:13:55 -0600<BR>
From: Kurt Brown <kurtbrown@home.com><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Here's my claim - Penelope/Five Sisters. I had already decided it would<BR>
make a good world to write up due to some stuff I've been working on for<BR>
JTAS, so I guess it's official now.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone notice a lot of worlds in the Five Sisters are going fast. Maybe<BR>
we should all just pick one out of that subsector and publish a book. :)<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Brown<BR>
<BR>
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:07:23 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment (was re: Re: F uture culture of the 3I)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:59 PM 3/22/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>2) You are a filthy voyeur. I refuse to answer questions about such<BR>
>private matters. Why don't you go point your camera at something<BR>
>important, like the nightmare in Kosovo?<BR>
><BR>
>(oh, wait, he tried #2...)<BR>
><BR>
><G><BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
Yep. Kosovo. Where the US and NATO are going to the aid of a bunch of drug <BR>
smugglers (the KLA) to protect the KLA's business interests from their main <BR>
competors, the Serbs. (The line between where Serb organized crime ends and <BR>
the Serb government begins is a little hazy.)<BR>
<BR>
Try Http://www.stratfor.com<BR>
<BR>
The lastest updates from the Kosovo area are interesting. Looks like NATO <BR>
might change sides.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:26:25 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I had thought my whole point was that the Third Imperium CANNOT<BR>
> be a plausible future, and so the designers used things more familiar<BR>
> to us in order to make a popular game.  In particular, they saw a<BR>
> need to make the Third Imperium familiar so that the players would<BR>
> identify with their characters in seeing it as 'home'.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, that seemed to be your point to me as well. I was unclear, and I was<BR>
speaking with respect to the other elements of the Third Imperium, ones<BR>
which are not directly culturally related, things like Jump Drive, slowed<BR>
growth in various fields of technology in so forth.<BR>
<BR>
What I was getting at is, basically, what's all this garbage about accuracy?<BR>
Why do people harp on accuracy? You framed the problem with Imperial culture<BR>
by saying, (to paraphrase) "Well, the designers couldn't possibly be<BR>
*accurate*, so the culture of the Imperium has to look like modern culture."<BR>
<BR>
I think there are more options than the dualistic poles that you've<BR>
presented in your post, "If we can't make it accurate, it's got to be the<BR>
way it is today." I disagree. That attitude is neither at the core of<BR>
science fiction, nor at the core of Traveller's official universe as far as<BR>
I can see.<BR>
<BR>
The universe portrayed in, say, Heinlein's Starship Troopers is most likely<BR>
not the way things will go in the real world, and it's not the way the world<BR>
is today. However, it's difficult to read the book and not become immersed<BR>
in the universe of Rico and Carmen and the ultimate battle between the two<BR>
societies presented within the book.<BR>
<BR>
Asimov's Foundation Trilogy is not the way things will go in the real world,<BR>
and it doesn't look a lot like the world does today. Do you want me to go<BR>
on?<BR>
<BR>
The point is simple, you present two options total accuracy, or the world as<BR>
it exists today (which I suppose is another sort of accuracy). I think that<BR>
there are other options which may or may not be desirable. Ultimately, I'd<BR>
like to point out that the official Traveller universe is neither accurate<BR>
nor anything like late 20th century America, or the Western world in the<BR>
late 20th century.<BR>
<BR>
As a result, neither of your options are really options at all.<BR>
<BR>
> You are speaking of the mechanical aspects of politics, which are<BR>
> indeed different.  I was speaking of cultural morals and values, and in<BR>
> cultural values I believe the Third Imperium does conform to late<BR>
> 20th-century Western values.<BR>
<BR>
See my recent response to another of your posts for how governments are<BR>
linked to the cultures they rule.<BR>
<BR>
Still, I have seen nothing which indicates that the cultural values of the<BR>
West in the 20th century are reflected in the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
What I do see is a culture that does not discourage open warfare between its<BR>
member states. This seems to be a little bit odd given my 20th century<BR>
background. What I also see is a culture that sanctions mercenary<BR>
organizations and operations within its own borders. Neither of these seem<BR>
to fit with the cultural values of the late 20th century.<BR>
<BR>
I also see a culture which views the cultural morals and values which have<BR>
become popular in the modern Western world in opposition to itself. In other<BR>
words, the Imperium has never been presented as the 20th century with laser<BR>
guns, antigrav belts and spaceships.<BR>
<BR>
> The idea that nobles have a strong honor code is how we would like<BR>
> to see our own politicians, I'm sure.<BR>
<BR>
I never said anything to the contrary. Keep in mind, however, that you'll<BR>
probably have a hard time nailing down exactly what honor is, and what sort<BR>
of code of honor is acceptable.<BR>
<BR>
> Bill Clinton was nearly impeached when he showed a lack of respect<BR>
> for the cultural value of marriage, so wanting your leaders to be<BR>
> honorable is a trait of American culture, at least.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Bill Clinton was impeached, he just wasn't convicted or tossed out<BR>
of office, which is precisely why there's a big problem with your line of<BR>
reasoning. His opinion polls remained high and he was not actually<BR>
convicted, so I'm tempted to say that Americans, by and large don't care if<BR>
their leaders are honorable, at least with respect to the institution of<BR>
marriage. That's the way the evidence appears to me.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, if I can safely gauge by my own experience, which is in some areas<BR>
anecdotal and in others scholarly, it would seem to me that Americans care<BR>
much more about the price of gas or the current state of the economy than<BR>
whether or not their leaders live up to their marriage vows.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, the cultural value of marriage -- as any sociologist will point out<BR>
to you -- is not really very valuable these days. Currently, around 50% of<BR>
all marriages in the U.S. end in divorce, so I have my doubts as to whether<BR>
or not America at large really cares.<BR>
<BR>
None of this is either to defend or attack Clinton, but merely to point out<BR>
that using him as an example only seems to support your argument in the<BR>
negative. That is to say that we don't really value the institution of<BR>
marriage, and so it wasn't really a big surprise when our President showed<BR>
that he didn't value it either.<BR>
<BR>
This is, of course, only a small part of my argument, but it is somewhat<BR>
important. Now, we could move on to what honor is and how it is perceived by<BR>
Americans in general, but then I'd be here all night. Clearly, this is the<BR>
opposite of the Imperium, in which there is a specific and honorable<BR>
standard for nobles to follow.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:29:59 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Ciencia Iphigenia and Lady Isis of Illeish<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
>>Sure, most noble may "do things the old fashion way", but in<BR>
>>this case, most may be only 60-70%.<BR>
<BR>
>I don't think 60-70% fits.  I would then expect cloning to<BR>
>be at least occasionally mentioned in offhand references<BR>
>(ie all the cases that don't seem to need special notice<BR>
>all seem to be natural births) and I don't think Norris<BR>
>methods of producing an heir would have been such a big<BR>
>deal.<BR>
<BR>
I would say that actual cloning is relatively rare, but that's very <BR>
different from saying that artificial wombs, and in vitro <BR>
recombination of two sperm or eggs are uncommon.  The key is <BR>
that cloning is producing a duplicate of someone now living, and <BR>
not merely a different method of producing an ordinary child.  I <BR>
would say that two women or two men producing children would be <BR>
of little note, as would a M/F couple using an artificial womb to <BR>
avoid the troubles of pregnancy.  However, cloning would be seen <BR>
as somewhat egocentric and odd (not because it is "unnatural", but <BR>
because it involves duplicating someone).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:47:42 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> >You do realize that your use of the phrase "goes both ways"<BR>
> >is a discussion of people who self identify as homosexual<BR>
> >or heterosexual is 1) funny and 2) begs the question of the <BR>
> >validity of these self identifications.<BR>
> <BR>
> 1) You're a riot, Pete.<BR>
Please do not ever call me Pete, my name is Peter.<BR>
<BR>
> 2) You didn't get my point. Of course the validity of these labels is<BR>
> called into question, that was the entire result of the survey!<BR>
<BR>
Was it? I thought that this was a descriptive survey, a survey<BR>
that merely described what it found rather than a survey with<BR>
an hypothesis.<BR>
<BR>
> If your<BR>
> labels don't fit well, their validity declines. "Homosexuals have sex<BR>
> with their own gender" turns out to be mostly true, and vice versa.<BR>
> So is everyone bisexual? <BR>
<BR>
I wish.... As far as I am able to tell a substantial<BR>
(majority?) portion of contemporary US monosexual population<BR>
(both heterosexuals and homosexuals) interprets an American<BR>
males declaration of his bisexuality to mean that he is gay<BR>
and in denial about it.<BR>
<BR>
> Even if they had one same-sex encounter two decades ago, or <BR>
vice versa?<BR>
<BR>
I would tend to describe sexual orientation more in terms<BR>
of what people _want_ to do then in terms of what people<BR>
have done. Presumably virgins have sexual orientation for <BR>
example. A same sex (or opposite sex) encounter does not<BR>
prove that you want to do it again. I know that most people<BR>
have had sexual feelings that they have not acted upon.<BR>
<BR>
If I had to make a structural/functional definition of<BR>
homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals it would probably<BR>
be something along the lines of: "People who self identify<BR>
as members of said group and who may, or may not, exhibit<BR>
sexual behavior consistent with said identification."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2158<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2159<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Artillery vs skyscrapers<BR>
Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re Chainmail<BR>
Re: Dragon-Con<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: Clone<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2155<BR>
4TH TIME OR SO :) Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:52:27 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
> Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> >Define dysfunctional please.<BR>
> <BR>
> Let's see - how about, excessively restricts people from attaining<BR>
> their individual potentials, in excess of the amount required for the<BR>
> continuation and stability of the culture?<BR>
<BR>
How is the culture to know how much continuation and<BR>
stability it needs? A culture is an artificial construct,<BR>
a name if you will, used to describe a weltanschung or<BR>
group of mimetic concepts. A culture is an abstract<BR>
notion used to describe a group of individuals who generally<BR>
hold similar memetic ideals.<BR>
<BR>
A culture, at least to me, is a unit of measurement.<BR>
Culture is a very interesting and useful idea to use<BR>
in describing peoples behavior but this does not necessarily<BR>
make the _idea_ real. A meter is an abstraction people<BR>
use to describe length. It's length may be defined in terms<BR>
of light waves but it is an artificial concept used in<BR>
measurement, not a real thing. Similarly culture is a useful<BR>
label to describe a group of people not an intrinsically<BR>
real concept.<BR>
<BR>
> How about a culture that encourages (or even requires) destruction<BR>
> (or at least demonization) of other cultures? Would that be a sign<BR>
> of dysfunction in a culture, or would it simply be a call to study the<BR>
> culture further and explain (in carefully neutral tones) why this behaviour<BR>
> makes perfect sense and is entirely normal for this culture? <BR>
<BR>
These sound like reasons for calling a culture _unjust_ rather<BR>
than dysfunctional. Perhaps we are using the word differently.<BR>
<BR>
> > The point is not how likely to conquer the world these cultures <BR>
> >are/were. The point is that - within the areas they controlled -<BR>
> >these cultures were 'successful' in the sense that people<BR>
> >were born, grew up, had kids, grew old, and died without<BR>
> >experiencing the destruction of that culture. <BR>
> <BR>
> IMO, an indicator of the health of a culture is how well that culture<BR>
> adapts and attracts. Adapts to new situations, and attracts new<BR>
> members. <BR>
<BR>
It seems to me you are projecting your own memetic ideals<BR>
here. Who is to say that attracting new members is good? Many<BR>
cultures have rejected outsiders. Who is to say that adapting to<BR>
new situations is good? A Vilani would not. I think you may be<BR>
attributing to 'health' what I would attribute to responsiveness.<BR>
A responsive culture will adapt. [We are the Borg. Prepare<BR>
to be assimilated. Your biological and cultural distinctiveness <BR>
will be added to our own.] A non responsive culture will not.<BR>
If you want to use the word healthy in an immunological sense <BR>
then yes healthy must include the ability of the body (culture)<BR>
in question to respond to outside germs (memes). I however<BR>
was using healthy more in terms of 'absent outside influence'.<BR>
<BR>
Thus the First Empire was 'healthier' than either of its<BR>
successors because it lasted longer. Personally I would<BR>
much rather have lived in either of its successors because,<BR>
by not having a caste society, they were less unjust, but that<BR>
is another question altogether.<BR>
<BR>
> If this is a true indicator, than the healthiest culture may<BR>
> very well "conquer the world". It's also possible that conquering the<BR>
> world is a sign of a sick culture instead of a healthy one, but that<BR>
> will probably depend on how the conquering happens.<BR>
<BR>
Remember history is written by the victors. Of course whoever<BR>
conquers the world has a superior culture, just ask them<BR>
and they will tell you.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:54:16 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Artillery vs skyscrapers<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 2000 at 15:15 (GMT -0800), gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
>The Israelis used US-made self-propelled howitzers -- M-105? --<BR>
>which are armored, tracked vehicles [to fire at upper floors of <BR>
>skyscrapers occupied by Lebanese troops].  They may not be as heavily<BR>
>armored as main battle tanks, but they keep the machine gun<BR>
>bullets out.  As I recall, they were pretty successful at<BR>
>hitting upper storeys of tall buildings.  I think that I read<BR>
>about this in some popular news magazine, like Newsweek.<BR>
<BR>
	SP howitzers can be laid on a target much more quickly than towed.  I<BR>
guess if I were a towed battery commander, I'd rehearse the troops<BR>
somewhere out of the line of fire.  Practice wheeling around a building<BR>
corner in a hurry and dry firing at the imagined targets.  Get rehearsed<BR>
up, dump some smoke grenades into the area, set up under cover of smoke and<BR>
when the smoke clears, commence to blastin'.  American SP howitzers came in<BR>
two flavors, fully enclosed gun compartments and not enclosed.  I'm<BR>
guessing they used the fully enclosed ones?  Being too lazy to look it up,<BR>
I think that was probably the M-114.  M-109 being the most probable for the<BR>
other flavor.  Most likely 155mm, but there were also 175mm and 8-inch<BR>
versions.<BR>
<BR>
	If your artillery is good enough, and if you have skilled FOs observing<BR>
and correcting the fire, you can get some accurate fire on target.  Best<BR>
thing this way is to go with air bursts.  If the defenders have sandbags,<BR>
it's probably not going to do more than harrassment value though.<BR>
<BR>
	Another approach is to throw some junk in the street to form an improvised<BR>
ramp for tanks to point themselves upwards.  Scrape up asphalt with a<BR>
'dozer or something.<BR>
<BR>
	This reminds of something pertinent to Low Tech versus High Tech, our<BR>
training on the towed 105mm howitzer in case we ever were being assaulted<BR>
by tanks (tanks almost all had better guns with better fire control, not to<BR>
mention speed and armor protection):  AS FAST AS THEY CAN, gunner and asst<BR>
gunner each put on their eyeball estimation of the correct traverse and<BR>
elevation, eyeball estimate only!  Meanwhile, the minimum crew necessary<BR>
loads one AP round.  As soon as each individual completes their jobs they<BR>
begin running away as fast as possible.  As soon as the gunner has finished<BR>
guessing he pulls the lanyard and starts to run.  He should not bother to<BR>
verify a hit, just run.  If he hit, he'll be okay anyway and if he missed<BR>
he had damned well better be running already.  I imagine the PA-packing<BR>
elephants would behave similarly when shooting at starships or grav tanks.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Yes, our M-101A1 howitzers were getting obsolescent even in my day, but at<BR>
least they were lightweight and portable enough to go anywhere the<BR>
Commandant might order us.  Traveller provided a way for me to design my<BR>
own improved alternatives, even at TL 8, and helped vent some frustration<BR>
from our old equipment.  Thanks, GDW.  :-><BR>
<BR>
	Sorry but the designs themselves are long since lost.  Primary attributes<BR>
I sought were, in no special order:<BR>
- -at least a 10.5 cm warhead<BR>
- -excellent fire control system<BR>
- -range as good as the enemy's<BR>
- -big variety of ammo types<BR>
- -self propelled, because it can keep up with motorized forces and because<BR>
this drastically speeds up time to emplace/displace the gun<BR>
- -carries ready ammo<BR>
- -overall, combat-loaded weight light enough to be transported by our<BR>
standard helos  (mostly CH-47s at the time)<BR>
- -barely enough frontal armor for the gun crew to be safe from HMG fire at<BR>
500m or more.  No side, rear, or top armor for gun crew, because it costs<BR>
weight.<BR>
	<BR>
	I did both a long-tube howitzer and a plain mortar version of this<BR>
concept.  Caveat to mortars is that they're much easier for enemy<BR>
counterbattery folks to pinpoint and return fire against.  These guns would<BR>
support line platoons, companies, and battalions.  I also monkeyed with<BR>
designs for bigger stuff, where range and destructive power were paramount.<BR>
 For counterbattery use and against strategic and/or hardened targets.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I don't have any plans to go to any conventions outside the San<BR>
>Francisco area, but if you're ever out this way, drop us an<BR>
>email beforehand and maybe we can set something up.  Kristian,<BR>
>Luther, and I play one Saturday a month (more or less) from<BR>
>about 11 a.m. until late afternoon.  Kristian has an excellent<BR>
>gaming space.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Sounds great!  Haven't been to San Francisco in many years, but am trying<BR>
to cook up an excuse to take an extended train trip that could easily<BR>
include you guys.  And we seem to have similar taste in gaming.<BR>
<BR>
- --laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:59:34 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
<BR>
Laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
> >In Traveller terms each system is isolated from each other <BR>
> >system by a minimum of a weeks travel. Many (most?) 'historical' <BR>
> >cultures, even when travel was limited to muscle powered<BR>
> >methods, had closer neighbors than that. Given the looseness<BR>
> >of the canonical Imperium the concepts of planetary cultures<BR>
> >as alien as the Dobu should not be unlikely.<BR>
<BR>
> We keep treating a planet as one homogenous culture even<BR>
> though most populated worlds have large populations spread over a large<BR>
> land area in a great variety of geographical and climatilogical<BR>
> environments.  <BR>
<BR>
No they do not. The statistically expected population of a world<BR>
in traveller is half a million people. I do not consider half a <BR>
million to be a large population. I will agree that half a million<BR>
people _can_ be spread out over a large area, as they are in my <BR>
home state of Alaska, but we simply do not have canonical data to<BR>
indicate how spread out the populations of typical Traveller<BR>
planets are. If we don't know how spread out they are then we<BR>
can not know how much the climate varies over that area.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:02:41 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I'm setting a campaign in the Five sisters :) I'd buy it....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:59:07 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
<BR>
Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Since I don't have a translation key for Bilandin (where can I get<BR>
> one?), I will have to kindly ask the list...<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of Bilandin, where oh where has it gone. Web searches<BR>
reveal dead links to Doug's site.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:26:28 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 00, at 16:43, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> > >> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >Sounds Ok<BR>
> > <BR>
> > This, I don't really see a problem with.<BR>
> <BR>
> Sigh. If you knew how they _harvested_ those things you sure as heck<BR>
> would! Even if you don't LIKE sharks, it's a horrifically cruel way of<BR>
> doing it.<BR>
> <BR>
> The mania for shark fin soup has lead to such horrendous overfishing to<BR>
> the point that many shark species are endangered. (as when any culture<BR>
> with several billion people get a mania for something...)<BR>
<BR>
That's a different issue from being able to handle the dish itself, <BR>
IMO. I agree with you about the "harvesting" methods used, though.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:26:28 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 00, at 18:05, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >> Cooked dog?<BR>
> <BR>
> >Yep. An ex-flatmate told me how to cook dog so as to avoid the <BR>
> >gameiness and stringyness. Haven't tried it, though.<BR>
> <BR>
> This is another thing that I would need to not know about when<BR>
> trying it - similarly with cat or horse.<BR>
<BR>
How about possum stew? By possum I mean the Aussie kind. IME it tastes <BR>
Ok, but you really don't want to be around while it's being cooked - <BR>
they don not smell nice alive or dead.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:26:28 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 00, at 11:49, Laning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >So go out into the open, give yourself a clear field of fire. That's<BR>
> >about like standing on top of a hill to have a look around.<BR>
> <BR>
>  Well, seizing the high ground might be the first commandment of tactics.<BR>
> But you're extremely right that it's a two-edged sword to be the folks up<BR>
> on the high ground.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but you don't get right up on top of it wit your bino's if you <BR>
want to live.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:28:37 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Chainmail<BR>
<BR>
>This is mostly OT (but not entirely with GT around), but one of my pet<BR>
>peeves with GURPs is that mail is much less effective against impaling<BR>
>attacks than other types. IMO this is nuts as, if anything, mail would<BR>
>be less effective against crushing attacks.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
You'd be surprised HOW effective mail is against basic impact type blows,<BR>
especially over a gambeson (Padded garmet normally worn beneath mail or<BR>
scale).<BR>
<BR>
Mail works most effectively against cutting or slashing blows. Against<BR>
blunt weapons, the mass and the interlocking links do really help spread<BR>
the blow over a larger area, but most thrusting type attacks are not<BR>
hindered much if at all.<BR>
<BR>
Not all historical mail was soldered or riveted; some was merely abutted<BR>
(JFR, most replica mail is simply abutted, as was inexpensive period mail).<BR>
Abutted links will open easily for a thrust, and even soldered mail will<BR>
pop links with a good thrust. A good thrust will even pop rivets. (I<BR>
learned this from an SCAer who put a dead pig in his mail shirt, and then<BR>
did destructive testing. Soldered links were little more effective than<BR>
abutted; rivetted links are more effective). Actual Impailing weapons, like<BR>
halberd back-spikes, spike-maces, and poignards, simply pop a link and push<BR>
the others out of the way. All the mail John used had 1cm diameter links of<BR>
10ga steel wire.<BR>
<BR>
Now, with mass weapons (Great swords, falchions, Axes, Maces, polearms), a<BR>
hack will break bones, cause massive subdural hematomas (Bruises), and do<BR>
massive muscle disruption, almost as tho' the mail was not present; without<BR>
a gambeson, you wind up with mail imbedded into the skin. (I've seen this<BR>
happen with a training blunt... it is not pretty.)<BR>
<BR>
I also have an acquaintance whose life was saved during a 7-11 robbery<BR>
because he wore SCA-style abutted mail beneath his uniform shirt.<BR>
<BR>
Also, mail has relatively high maintenance requirements. Training with<BR>
blunted SCA-Weapons (2" Rattan in place of steel) causes a significant loss<BR>
of links. a 4-hour session generally means 1 hour of adding links. With<BR>
rivetted, the time is about the same, but fewer are being lost/replaced,<BR>
they just take longer to do.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav:<BR>
Chainmail is incredibly good against knives. I can see 5mm diameter link<BR>
mail being fairly common on worlds with dueling cultures.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:42:42 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon-Con<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-22 17:27:38 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:22:16 -0500<BR>
 From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
 Subject: DragonCon<BR>
 <BR>
 So, is anyone going to DragonCon in Atlanta this year?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
I'll be there as a VIP guest. Stevee Jackson has been invited to attend, but <BR>
hasn't decided yet.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:42:40 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
<< Heck, back in Victorian times the woman wasn't supposed to enjoy it, it<BR>
 was just her "duty". >><BR>
<BR>
There are several Victorian "Marriage Manuals" that make interesting (also <BR>
frightening and amusing) reading.<BR>
<BR>
<< So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
 necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
 that strange? >><BR>
<BR>
Rumor has it that lesbianism wasn't specifically against the law in Victorian <BR>
England because nobody had the courage to explain what it was to Queen <BR>
Victoria.<BR>
<BR>
I find this difficult to believe for several reasons, but it's a nice story.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:42:41 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
<< Heck, if it was that common, why was the idea that Stephon<BR>
 had a clone something that didn't occur to Dullinor, let<BR>
 alone to a lot of people until well after the assassination. >><BR>
<BR>
I can answer that one, but I probably shouldn't.<BR>
<BR>
The original notion was that Strephon was actually killed, and the "real <BR>
Strephon" was as to Strephon as Pugachev was to Tsar Peter III.<BR>
<BR>
We changed our minds in mid-stream, and this is one of the rough bits.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:44:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I submit that "rule by the best" is indeed what happens in Western<BR>
> cultures.<BR>
<BR>
I submit that the current state of Western democracies is anything but rule<BR>
by the best. It would appear that it is rule by the most popular, which does<BR>
not equate with "the best" in a general sense. In America, for example,<BR>
elections tend to be rule by the most telegenic, or rule by those who have a<BR>
hell of a lot of money to advertise, or rule by people with the straightest<BR>
teeth and the most winning smile.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, I've never heard, until this very moment, any American with whom<BR>
I've talked to about the subject of democratic elections in the U.S. equate<BR>
the candidates with "the best".<BR>
<BR>
 Honestly.<BR>
<BR>
I hear things like, "[Candidate A] is the lesser of two evils," "I don't<BR>
trust [Candidate B], he's got beady little eyes," "I voted for [Candidate A]<BR>
because I'm a [Political Party A]," I voted for [Candidate B] because I<BR>
don't like [Political Party A]."<BR>
<BR>
> No one is elected president of the United States who doesn't have a<BR>
> substantial education and substantial funds.<BR>
<BR>
So what? Does a substantial education and a lot of money mean that one is<BR>
most fit to rule?<BR>
<BR>
> Not only is it "rule by the best" in a material sense, but also in a<BR>
> moral sense - US citizens want the best man in more than one<BR>
> sense.  Elections are held with the purpose of<BR>
> finding the best man for the job, but there are people who could<BR>
> never seriously be considered candidates, and there are some who<BR>
> are obvious candidates.<BR>
<BR>
Elections in America in the late 20th century are really popularity<BR>
contests. I'm actually genuinely surprised to hear someone arguing the other<BR>
side, because I've never met anyone who held the opposing position.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the real heart of the issue here is that no standard for what<BR>
actually makes a potential ruler "the best" exists in the West in the late<BR>
20th century.<BR>
<BR>
> >That bears no resemblance to how you characterized my position.<<BR>
><BR>
> I apologize.  I was perhaps focusing on what I saw a significant<BR>
> aspect of the position rather than the entirity.<BR>
<BR>
It wasn't a significant aspect, but much more importantly it wasn't what I<BR>
said. I will gladly amend my position to include that the concept of "honor"<BR>
is so fragmented in the West in the 20th century simply no longer exists.<BR>
However, it wasn't where I entered the discussion.<BR>
<BR>
> Rule by succession is about to be put to the test in the US - by<BR>
> George Jr. <g><BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, but perhaps not. While it's certainly true that the familiarity<BR>
with the Bush name will help him, it's by no means a sure thing.<BR>
<BR>
> >Governments and cultures are linked in ways that are very, very<BR>
> difficult to unravel. You can't look at one without looking at the other.<<BR>
><BR>
> Granted, to a point.  The attitudes and morals of the US government<BR>
> can be very different from somewhere like Alaska or Utah.<BR>
<BR>
The attitudes and morals at the border between Kensington, Fishtown and Port<BR>
Richmond in Philadelphia, where I live, are quite different than the<BR>
attitudes and morals just five or six blocks away. If you want to argue for<BR>
moral pluralism, be my guest, but that's not the position which you seem to<BR>
be backing.<BR>
<BR>
You seem to be saying that there is a definite and generalizable moral<BR>
framework in the late 20th century in the West (or at least in America)<BR>
which can be said to apply universally. While I personally disagree with<BR>
that notion, I'm willing to be involved in a discussion within that<BR>
framework.<BR>
<BR>
> >Assuming that you're from America,<<BR>
><BR>
> You are correct in your assumption - Utah to be specific.<BR>
><BR>
> >I'm surprised that you would disagree<BR>
> with this. The very notion that every person is created equal must be<BR>
> tossed out by a society which truly believes that some people are<BR>
> simply born to rule, and that birth into a specific family makes a<BR>
> potential ruler far more able to live up to some honorable ideal.<<BR>
><BR>
> I would interpret the notion that "all men are created equal" to mean<BR>
> that all people deserve equal rights.  It is not intended to maintain<BR>
> that all people have equal opportunity, and the idea that people born<BR>
> to materially well-off families, or families that have a reputation for<BR>
> integrity are themselves destined to be well off or honest IS present<BR>
> in Western culture.<BR>
<BR>
Your interpretation is still not in keeping with rule by succession. For<BR>
example, if being materially well off equates with being "the best" in a<BR>
rulership position, then rule by nobles who acquire their position as a<BR>
birthright is not necessary. Indeed, there may be people who are far more<BR>
materially well off than the current nobles in the Imperium, and it would<BR>
certainly be possible to select leaders in a different fashion. If material<BR>
wealth was to be the barometer by which fitness to rule was measured,<BR>
obviously the very richest people in the Imperium would rule. I've never<BR>
seen any Traveller materials that have said this or hinted at this. The<BR>
nobles are certainly well off, but there is no indication that they are the<BR>
most well off.<BR>
<BR>
Presumably, material wealth can be used to buy a decent education, which<BR>
could be said to create better leaders. If that was what the Imperium prized<BR>
or valued, leaders might be selected by a series of tests, like the<BR>
old-style Chinese bureaucracy.<BR>
<BR>
All in all, however, none of these seem to be in keeping with the system of<BR>
government in the Imperium. All people are not created equal, some, by their<BR>
mere birth, are quantifiably better than others to lead.<BR>
<BR>
> The various Bushes are governors now and possibly future<BR>
> presidents because of their family.  They may have ended that way<BR>
> anyway by talent, but their family certainly gave them a good start.<BR>
<BR>
And the Bush family is nothing like the concept of the aristocracy in<BR>
Traveller at all. Really. They still have to meet the demands of public<BR>
elections and mass support within their own party. None of this speaks to<BR>
whether or not they are the most able rulers.<BR>
<BR>
In the Imperium, however, their rulership of some part of the Imperium would<BR>
be a foregone conclusion based *solely on their birth* (or possibly their<BR>
assassination skills).<BR>
<BR>
> The situation is analgous to modern government in the US.  The<BR>
> people of Utah, for instance, have quite a bit of say in how Utah is<BR>
> run (their "world"), but relatively little influence on how the rest of<BR>
the<BR>
> nation is run or on how the national government can interact with<BR>
> Utah;<BR>
<BR>
Actually, no. You, like every other state in the Union, have a number of<BR>
popularly elected representatives who are able to fight for the interests of<BR>
your state. Your state, like every other state in the union, has a say in<BR>
who will be in power in the federal government.<BR>
<BR>
> a fact ably demonstrated by President Clinton when he grabbed the<BR>
> Grand Escalante Staircase national park for the Fedral Government<BR>
> with no input by local government.<BR>
<BR>
Really? What did your congressmen and senators have to say about this?<BR>
<BR>
> True, we do have some say in national government, but the power of<BR>
> a single state (and a somewhat remote state with a relatively small<BR>
> population) is not much more significant.<BR>
<BR>
It's significant that it's there at all, and it's significant that the<BR>
theory behind it requires certain moral and ethical assumptions to be in<BR>
place.<BR>
<BR>
> In the Third Imperium, each world has greater freedom in how they<BR>
> govern their own affairs but little influence (except through the Moot)<BR>
> on the Imperial government.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the populations of individual worlds have absolutely no say<BR>
whatsoever in the moot. None. Most individual worlds do not even have<BR>
Imperial nobles attached to them specifically. Further, the moot is not a<BR>
representative body in any way, shape or form, and it's never been presented<BR>
as such.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, the very fact that you see it as a representational body speaks<BR>
volumes to my point, which is that the Imperium doesn't look a whole lot<BR>
like the western world in the late 20th century.<BR>
<BR>
> Indeed, I would like to take a moment to point out that Dulinor pretty<BR>
> much seems to be a modern Westerner tossed into the midst of this<BR>
> society, and look at the havoc that was caused. The Ine Givar don't<BR>
> sound like they're fighting for the same ideals that many Westerners<BR>
> hold dear to day, and yet they're nasty terrorists.<<BR>
><BR>
> Dulinor was something of a socialist democrat, but the reason he<BR>
> caused havoc is because instead of waiting for the reforms that<BR>
> Strephen was already making towards increasing local authority (in<BR>
> particular, through increasing the power of the Archdukes), he<BR>
> decided to attempt to force the change overnight, and the Imperium<BR>
> rejected that.  Dulinor was just trying to speed a process that<BR>
> Strephen had already started, and his impatience caused the war.<BR>
<BR>
Increasing the power of the Archdukes seems to make little sense, as the<BR>
Archdukes were already assumed to control their Domains absolutely. This is<BR>
an inconsistency in the official Traveller Universe, and a relatively large<BR>
one at that.<BR>
<BR>
> >In short, "we" are the bad guys.<<BR>
><BR>
> If anyone was the "bad guy" of the rebellion, it was Lucan - the man<BR>
> who was trying to be the next Hitler.  Dulinor was a capable leader<BR>
> who made a bad choice.<BR>
<BR>
No. I'm not talking "bad guys" in the sense of how the characters are<BR>
written into the plot of the story, but "bad guys" in the sense of people<BR>
with modern western ideas of government are the revolutionaries and<BR>
subversives of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
> I still maintain that it does look much like our own culture.<BR>
<BR>
I still haven't seen any substantial examples of how this is so.<BR>
<BR>
> The hereditary monarchy is the biggest difference politically (even<BR>
> then, there are many Western nations which still give lip service to a<BR>
monarchy),<BR>
<BR>
No. This discussion has nothing to do with a hereditary monarcy, it has<BR>
everything to do with the fact that belief in aristocratic rule is alien to<BR>
us.<BR>
<BR>
> but the social culture of the Imperium (in particular moral values) is<BR>
> much closer than you would think any society 3,000 years away from<BR>
> us would be.<BR>
<BR>
That's not how this discussion started, actually. It started when you said<BR>
that late 20th century Western culture was grafted onto the Tarveller<BR>
universe as the culture of the Imperium to make it more accessible to<BR>
players. I don't think that's the case at all.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:42:37 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-22 08:58:12 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<<  If JFK<BR>
 had an affair and it became public knowledge at the time it would have been<BR>
 the end of the government as we know it.  >><BR>
<BR>
I think that's exagerating. The Republicans were saying that about Kennedy at <BR>
the time -- certainly I _heard_ Republicans talking about how JFK was a <BR>
womanizer while he was in office. It just never saw print until after he was <BR>
gone.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:42:39 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2155<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-22 15:16:31 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< > I regret that for the time being, the finder only works for addresses<BR>
 > in the USA (we're working on that).<BR>
 <BR>
 I was not aware. That must mean that the other Swedish gamers (4 of<BR>
 them) and stores (8 of them) are just figments of my imagination. Sad,<BR>
 isn't it?<BR>
 <BR>
 /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm >><BR>
<BR>
Well, we live and learn -- maybe Jackie fixed that part...the site _says_ it <BR>
only works for US addresses, and I, fool that I am, believed it.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:59:21 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: 4TH TIME OR SO :) Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
<BR>
It's on my site at:<BR>
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/resources/<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Steve<BR>
> Daniels<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:59 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Since I don't have a translation key for Bilandin (where can I get<BR>
> > one?), I will have to kindly ask the list...<BR>
> <BR>
> Speaking of Bilandin, where oh where has it gone. Web searches<BR>
> reveal dead links to Doug's site.<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:23:18 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
<BR>
>1. Judges Guild Ley sector supplement and Crucis Margin supplements? I know<BR>
>there has been some criticism of these because of the stellar data...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
There actually were 4 JG sectors: Ley, Crucis Margin, Maranath Alkahest,<BR>
and Glimmerdrift Reaches. They form a domain sized well thought out<BR>
setting. They just happen to disagree with Atlas (which only contradicts 2<BR>
of the 4...)<BR>
<BR>
There are some sketchy cultural notes, with cultural encounter and event<BR>
tables. Slightly more details that Supp 3 or 10, but less than RSB or the<BR>
MT sectors as printed in TD/MTJ/Challenge.<BR>
<BR>
Also, there are several new races there, like the dannin. The mandannin<BR>
codominion is a dual race culture of Humans and Dannin.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, March 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 2160<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism (was Re: Greek relationships)<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
Re: 4TH TIME OR SO :) Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: DragonCon<BR>
Landgrab... There goes the neighbourhood. <BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Jump Governors<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:35:57 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Date: 22 March 2000 22:32<BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
>>Define dysfunctional please.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I would define a dysfunctional culture as one that cannot survive its<BR>
internal contradictions. ie, if it can survive in isolation it is<BR>
'funtional', if it cannot then it is dysfunctional.<BR>
<BR>
>Let's see - how about, excessively restricts people from attaining<BR>
>their individual potentials, in excess of the amount required for the<BR>
>continuation and stability of the culture?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, rigid caste systems have proved to be effective in history. Some such<BR>
cultures lasted hundreds, if not thousands of years. eg India, Japan.<BR>
<BR>
>How about a culture that encourages (or even requires) destruction<BR>
>(or at least demonization) of other cultures? Would that be a sign<BR>
>of dysfunction in a culture, or would it simply be a call to study the<BR>
>culture further and explain (in carefully neutral tones) why this behaviour<BR>
>makes perfect sense and is entirely normal for this culture?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It would depend.<BR>
<BR>
Nazi Germany was dysfuntional. It was riven by internal contadictions: They<BR>
wanted to use science and industry to create a pastoral society... They<BR>
attacked all their neigbouring cultures, but murdered or worked skilled<BR>
people to death rather than utilize their abilities to aid their war<BR>
effort...<BR>
<BR>
Would you say America has a dysfuntional society? After all, America has,<BR>
for most of the 20th century, encouraged the demonization of communist<BR>
cultures... <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:40:35 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/21/00 3:45:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!, smithw@hartwick.edu <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Take a look at Sol subsector. Kaguk/Sol, the system where this<BR>
 battle probably took place, is Jump-2 from Mukhaldim, Jump-3 from<BR>
 Cymbeline, and Jump-3 from Ember. It's Jump-1 from nowhere.<BR>
 Jump-0 takes the same fuel as Jump-1, so it's reasonable that<BR>
 Bard Endeavor had enough fuel for an in-system jump, without <BR>
 having enough fuel to get to another star system.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
This is correct. She jumped in and drained her tanks DRY. Why she did this is <BR>
beyond me, since AHL's are J5. Since she didn't have time to refuel and jump <BR>
outsystem (apparently the rest of her squadron had already refueled), she was <BR>
elected/volunteered to stay and buy time for the rest of the squadron to race <BR>
to the 100D limit and jump. She did her job.... I'd like to think her <BR>
skipper, and especially her marines got posthumous medals for this<BR>
<BR>
Seth<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:51:42 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
<BR>
LKW wrote:<BR>
> << So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
>  necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
>  that strange? >><BR>
> <BR>
> Rumor has it that lesbianism wasn't specifically against the law in Victorian <BR>
> England because nobody had the courage to explain what it was to Queen <BR>
> Victoria.<BR>
> <BR>
> I find this difficult to believe for several reasons, but it's a nice story.<BR>
<BR>
The version I'm familiar with has Victoria getting the explanation, <BR>
but saying something to the effect of "don't be ridiculous - women<BR>
don't do that."<BR>
<BR>
*cough*<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell "or was it *can't*?" B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:45:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The idea that nobles have a strong honor code is how we would like to see<BR>
> our own politicians, I'm sure.  Bill Clinton was nearly impeached when he<BR>
> showed a lack of respect for the cultural value of marriage, so wanting your<BR>
> leaders to be honorable is a trait of American culture, at least.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Clinton was nearly impeached because the *other politicians*<BR>
thought the public would support their using Clinton's *private* life<BR>
as an excuse to impeach him. <BR>
<BR>
If he'd been of the same party as the majority of Congress, they<BR>
wouldn't have done a thing. <BR>
<BR>
Never confuse the *excuses* politicians give for attacking political<BR>
enemies with their real feelings about the manner.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:14:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The prejudice of skin colors has been exchanged for a prejudice against<BR>
> non-human races.  Brzk learned that the hard way.  He is the only non-human<BR>
> Archduke and was never seriously considered a candidate for the Iridium<BR>
> throne because of his race.  This prejudice is not as evident in the 3I as<BR>
> it is in Solomani space, but it IS present.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I can see world existing that *do* have prejudices based on<BR>
skin color, hair color or eye color. <BR>
<BR>
Picture the players landing on a world where they are treated like dirt<BR>
because they aren't *black* or if you've got a Black player, because<BR>
he isn't black *enough*. This actually *happens* in parts of Africa,<BR>
American blacks visiting there get looked down on for having so much<BR>
*white* blood. <BR>
<BR>
And just think of the fun as the PCs try to figure out why some of them<BR>
are getting spat upon and others are getting preferential treatment.<BR>
And their reaction upon learning that it's hair or eye color.<BR>
<BR>
Note that wearing headgear that covers your hair in public could be a<BR>
crime. But it'd only be *enforced* against folks with the "wrong" hair<BR>
color. Folks with the "right" hair color would get stopped by a cop,<BR>
the same as the others, but after being *ordered* to remove their "hat"<BR>
they'd get an apology and a politely worded "suggestion" that they<BR>
might not want to wear the "hat" as it could lead to "problems".<BR>
<BR>
Meanwhile, they PCs with the "wrong" hair color are going to have to do<BR>
a very good "grovel" to avoid being hauled of to jail for trying to<BR>
"pass". <BR>
<BR>
Even more fun is if it's *eye* color that is important. The PCs with a<BR>
thing for dark glasses or mirrorshades are going to run into some<BR>
*real* hassles....<BR>
<BR>
So make sure that your players have skin, eys and hair color listed.<BR>
And if they don't, get them to, and then "forget" about it for at least<BR>
2-3 months. If your group has been running for a long time, a *year*<BR>
might not be out of line (if you have the patience :-)<BR>
<BR>
Religion can be fun too. Some worlds (and not necessarily ones ith<BR>
religion based governments!) may require you to wear special symbols or<BR>
items of clothing if you belong to certain religions, or if you<BR>
*don't*. <BR>
<BR>
Consider a "Northern Ireland" type setup where it's gotten to the point<BR>
where offworlders and the few locals *not* belonging to the warring<BR>
factions have to wear "badges" indicating that they aren't. And, of<BR>
course, *everyone* (warring factions *and* neutrals) will come down<BR>
*hard* on anybody misusing the "badges"...<BR>
<BR>
Or a world where folks who don't belong to the dominant religion wear<BR>
"badges" so that they don't get in trouble for doing things against<BR>
religious law (say the dominant religion says that eating in public is<BR>
a serious sin, but (wonder of wonders) doesn't hold it to be a sin for<BR>
those not of the faith). <BR>
<BR>
And then there's the world where you wear "badges" to show that you<BR>
*are* part of a religious sect. A matter of pride, as well as possibly<BR>
conveying some benefits/penalties. <BR>
<BR>
"Pardon me, Brother..."<BR>
"Yes?"<BR>
"Seeing that you are one of the Brethren, I think you should know that<BR>
the street you were about to turn down may be unclean, as a glorsk was<BR>
seen on it."<BR>
"Thank you!"<BR>
"Your quite welcome. We don't see a lot of brethren here, so no one<BR>
could find the warning sign. We called the nearest rectory, but they<BR>
haven't gotten here yet."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, this is a *tolerant* world, and the "Brethren" are liked and<BR>
respected. So the average person knows at least *some* of the rules<BR>
they live by, and if he notes a Brother about to (unknowingly) violate<BR>
one, he'll speak up.<BR>
<BR>
But when the players land, *they* won't know this. So guess how *they*<BR>
are likely to react seeing part of the populatiion wearing symbols that<BR>
they are told indicate membership in a religion, and signs in many<BR>
public places that have that symbol with a red circle & slash<BR>
superimposed posted prominently (warning the Brothers that the<BR>
establishment is "unclean"!).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:50:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> This gives the players a familiar setting to play in and yet explore<BR>
>> alien cultures. Given this background, a lesbian Empress would<BR>
>> provoke the same general reactions in the Imperial aristocracy as a<BR>
>> lesbian world leader would today. In other words, a scandal.<BR>
><BR>
> Maybe, maybe not. One could argue that "lesbianism" is a social construct<BR>
> peculiar to Western modernity and that it simply doesn't exist in the<BR>
> Imperium. Classification based on sexual orientation (or preference,<BR>
> depending on scientific evidence or the prevailing view) might be seen as<BR>
> completely alien. Following from that, a romantic relationship between two<BR>
> women might not raise any eyebrows at all among the aristocracy.<BR>
><BR>
> However, it's possible that even in an egalitarian society there are certain<BR>
> social roles expected or required of different genders. A romantic<BR>
> relationship between two women may not be scandalous in and of itself, but<BR>
> if Ciencia were to start acting in a masculine fashion, the nobles of the<BR>
> Imperium might cry bloody murder.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, for all we know, one of them may be a "female-identified male"<BR>
(somewhere between a transvestite and a transexual) and it's culturally<BR>
proper to use the female pronoun because "she" is living a female<BR>
*social* role. With "her" sexual role being only of interest to her<BR>
lovers. <BR>
<BR>
You have to realize that we have several *independent* roles lumped<BR>
together as someone's "sex" in our culture. Other cultures have<BR>
seperated some or all of them to a greater or lesser degree.<BR>
<BR>
Social: what role you play in society. This tends to affect mode of<BR>
        dress and the type of "jobs" one performs in the society. <BR>
<BR>
Biological: what your physical/genetic characteristics are. Note that<BR>
       genetic "sex" and physical "sex" do *not always match. That's<BR>
       *why* they do those tests on athletes.<BR>
<BR>
"Sexual": what sort of sexual partners you take.<BR>
<BR>
That's three sets right there. And "biological" can, as noted, be<BR>
broken done into *at least* two more categories (a third might be "body<BR>
image", which is where transexuals come in. Their "physical" sex and<BR>
"body image" sex are in conflict)<BR>
<BR>
It's not at all out of line to consider an Imperium that has managed to<BR>
sort most of this out, and only *appears* to be the same on the<BR>
surface, because external appearances go with *social* role. <BR>
<BR>
So phsyical males who adopt a social female role would consider it tres<BR>
gauche to let a *hint* of beard show up. But they may or may not wear<BR>
falsies to make their dresses drape properly (we won't go into what you<BR>
wear to eliminate "unsightly bulges" lower down :-). Not that different<BR>
from what many physical females go thru to "look good".<BR>
<BR>
They wouldn't have their bodies modified because they aren't "body<BR>
image" female. And what kind of sexual partners are they atrracted to?<BR>
You'll only find out if one of you makes a pass. And then, if the<BR>
person being propositioned doesn't go for that (phsyical) sex, it'd be<BR>
little different than not going for a certain "type" of man/woman now.<BR>
You politely decline and everyone goes on about their business.<BR>
<BR>
So unless sex plays a big part in your games, you could be playing in<BR>
*this* version of the Imperium and never notice the difference!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:03:20 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 03/23/00 at 01:26 PM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> This is another thing that I would need to not know about when<BR>
>> trying it - similarly with cat or horse.<BR>
<BR>
Horse isn't bad, a little stringy, but a lot like beef. <BR>
<BR>
>How about possum stew? By possum I mean the Aussie kind. IME it tastes <BR>
>Ok, but you really don't want to be around while it's being cooked - <BR>
>they don not smell nice alive or dead.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know about Australian possum, but the American kind taste<BR>
just fine.  Fried possum with collard greens and corn bread...yum,<BR>
yum! <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:08:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism (was Re: Greek relationships)<BR>
<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Seriously, has _Patterns of Culture_ stood up better for 11 years<BR>
> than _Coming of Age in Samoa_ has for 27? Time can be pretty<BR>
> hard on soft science works.<BR>
<BR>
Time can be pretty hard on hard science works as well. Thales of Milesia,<BR>
said by many to be the originator of science in the western world, believed<BR>
that everything was made of water. Let's not even get into the eugenics<BR>
movement, which was believed by many to be hard science. I understand that<BR>
those who make money by trying to figure out the physical laws that govern<BR>
the creation of solar systems were thrown into a tizzy recently. It turns<BR>
out their models were wrong.<BR>
<BR>
My apologies. I could sit here all day, but that's not really where my<BR>
problem with your comment sits. In a certain very real way, I'm just pulling<BR>
your leg. Looming behind your comment is the question of whether or not<BR>
anthropologists (and practitioners of a number of other disciplines) are<BR>
doing science at all. They might be doing something entirely different.<BR>
<BR>
For example, maybe they're creating narratives from data, positioning bits<BR>
of information in some relation to each other and drawing connections where<BR>
none seem to be apparent.<BR>
<BR>
I am, after a fashion, influenced heavily by Michael Oakeshott, and as such,<BR>
don't see what are frequently called "social sciences" as science. That's<BR>
not to say that I don't believe that they have value. Far from it, the vast<BR>
majority of things that I read are "social science" works. I just don't<BR>
believe that they're science, soft or otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
There are fundamental differences between the sciences and the social<BR>
sciences.<BR>
<BR>
> I think a problem with cultural relativism is one of differential results.<BR>
> Isn't it possible that the paranoid Dobu and the megalomaniacal<BR>
> Kwaikiutl aren't examples of different standards of "normal", but are<BR>
> instead examples of dysfunctional cultures?<BR>
<BR>
Certainly, but in order to do that, you have to have a reason for doing<BR>
that, and you have to have some method of measurement. Work that idea into a<BR>
longer and more fleshed out form, and you've got a narrative addressing the<BR>
problem you see in the issue. Publish it to the list, and I'll certainly<BR>
read it.<BR>
<BR>
However, there are larger issues behind the problem you've presented which<BR>
can get pretty hairy. The reason for undertaking such a herculean task is<BR>
very important. Your criteria for determining functionality and<BR>
dysfunctionality are both really important. The assumptions you're making,<BR>
with respect to the first two issues, are also required so that we can make<BR>
sense of what you're saying.<BR>
<BR>
> It may be a result of resource availabilities - which will shape local<BR>
> cultures anyway - but I don't see the Dobu or the Kwaikiutl rising as<BR>
> a powerful cultural force any time soon. I'll even bet their cultures are<BR>
> in serious danger of dying out or changing radically...not a good sign<BR>
> for the health of a culture, no matter what the cause.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, one narrative which has recently appeared, "Guns, Germs and<BR>
Steel", by Jared Diamond, seems to indicate that the places where various<BR>
cultures started are the deciding factor in their power relative to other<BR>
countries, an accident of geography. Whether or not you believe that is up<BR>
to you. Personally I do, so in any discussions we have on cultures you and I<BR>
will be back to square one.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I can't believe that anyone with historical awareness would claim that<BR>
> there is no such thing as a dysfunctional culture. It's even a common<BR>
> claim of the loudest supporters of cultural relativism as a philosophy<BR>
> that western culture itself is dysfunctional, therefore they cannot<BR>
> argue that some cultures can't be healthier than others.<BR>
<BR>
You've given no characterization of cultural relativism, so I'm not sure<BR>
precisely what it is you're talking about. Cultural relativism is, very<BR>
loosely, the theory that it is simply impossible to make quality judgments<BR>
about different cultures. The reason that it is impossible to make quality<BR>
judgments is that there's no way to set any sort of real empirical standard<BR>
by which various cultures could be measured.<BR>
<BR>
That's all that cultural relativism is, at its base. However, that's not to<BR>
say that cultural relativism isn't useful. It certainly is. One common<BR>
opinion before the days when cultural relativism ruled was that Greco-Roman<BR>
civilization was the pinnacle of culture on the earth. The best that another<BR>
culture could ever hope for was a pale imitation of these ideals.<BR>
<BR>
This was problematic. We now know, for example, that the Greeks were pretty<BR>
bizarre, and in some ways very alien to us. People who wouldn't even be<BR>
legal adults in our country were out boozing, killing, raping and in general<BR>
raising hell. We know that the code of honor held near and dear in Greece<BR>
centered on the taking of other people's property by acts of violence. A<BR>
surviving lyric poem speaks of the beauty inherent in a young male body as<BR>
it falls and dies in battle, contrasting this vision of beauty against the<BR>
ugliness of an old man as he dies in battle gripping his bloody genitals.<BR>
<BR>
The point of this post isn't to bring you up to speed on Greek values<BR>
(although this thread was originally called Greek relationships), it's to<BR>
point out that cultural relativism has its place.<BR>
<BR>
> The problem, of course, then becomes: who gets to define which<BR>
> cultures are dysfunctional? The healthiest ones won't always be the<BR>
> strongest ones, IMO, but they might be good candidates.<BR>
<BR>
No, the real big problem is the reason for this activity in the first place.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:12:16 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
<BR>
On 03/22/00 at 11:00 PM,  "AB" <ab@rossmack.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I just read the Behind The Claw description of Rorise (a world I have<BR>
>already done some work on) and it's pretty much diametrically opposed:<BR>
<BR>
>A volcanic radioactive hell inhabited only with a research station (BtC)<BR>
>vs A dim, cold forest world leased to a large corporation by a Noble (AB)<BR>
<BR>
>Is it worthwhile proceeding to clean up my heretical work for the<BR>
>Landgrab?<BR>
<BR>
This may have been addressed, but I've a suggestion. Would it be possible that the two descriptions deal with two different worlds in the same system? That way you wouldn't have to invalidate either work.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:19:20 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 4TH TIME OR SO :) Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
<BR>
Hehe.  Remember that the TML isn't uniform in the time of<BR>
message delivery or receipt.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It's on my site at:<BR>
> http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/resources/<BR>
><BR>
> Jesse<BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Steve<BR>
> > Daniels<BR>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:59 AM<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > Subject: Re: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Since I don't have a translation key for Bilandin (where can I get<BR>
> > > one?), I will have to kindly ask the list...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Speaking of Bilandin, where oh where has it gone. Web searches<BR>
> > reveal dead links to Doug's site.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > bloo<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:17:11 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On 03/22/00 at 02:52 PM,  "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Right? BTW, to avoid any confusion, Justice<BR>
>Hypercleats(eris@sierratel.com) is not the same as Eris Reddoch.<BR>
<BR>
Huh? What?  Is someone mixing up Hypercleats and me? <BR>
<BR>
Eris...that's my *name* not just my address. <g><BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:18:48 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
On 03/22/00 at 04:22 PM,  "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>So, is anyone going to DragonCon in Atlanta this year?<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking about going.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:23:01 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Landgrab... There goes the neighbourhood. <BR>
<BR>
	Ahem...<BR>
<BR>
	2419 Cogri/Lanth CA6A643-9<BR>
<BR>
	2726 Carey/Mogra C579221-9<BR>
<BR>
	Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:21:25 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> Actually, Clinton was nearly impeached because the *other politicians*<BR>
> thought the public would support their using Clinton's *private* life<BR>
> as an excuse to impeach him.<BR>
<BR>
He was impeached.  The offense he was impeached for would have been more<BR>
than sufficient gain a conviction in times past.<BR>
<BR>
> If he'd been of the same party as the majority of Congress, they<BR>
> wouldn't have done a thing.<BR>
<BR>
Congressional Republicans were naive enough to think that old rules still<BR>
mean something.<BR>
<BR>
> Never confuse the *excuses* politicians give for attacking political<BR>
> enemies with their real feelings about the manner.<BR>
<BR>
Human culture changes.  The pendulum swings.  Those who don't keep up get<BR>
left behind.  Half of our current laws are obsolete (wild guess) and 90% of<BR>
our politicians are as well (conservative guess).  I don't see the 3I being<BR>
any different.  Likely they are worse.  The nobility will probably fall into<BR>
one of two categories: those you fear and those you laugh at.  Most are<BR>
probably foppish caricatures.  A few, like Norris, have some power because<BR>
of their strong personality coupled with economic power.<BR>
<BR>
:-p<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:49:59 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Governors<BR>
<BR>
Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>         The Original (CT book 2) Starship design system used jump fuel based<BR>
> upon the power of the drive rather than the length of the jump.<BR>
> <BR>
>         "The jump drive requires fuel to make one jump (regardless of jump<BR>
> number) based upon the formula: 0.1MJn, where M equals the mass<BR>
> displacement of the starship and Jn equals the jump number of the drive"<BR>
> <BR>
>         Traveller, Book 2, p. 6<BR>
> <BR>
>         CT Book 5, first edition p. 32 has the Jump Governor description:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Jump Governor: It is possible to procure a jump governor for ships<BR>
> produced according to Book 2. It allows such a ship to utilize fuel more<BR>
> efficiently; instead of consuming all fuel when performing a jump<BR>
> regardless of jump number, the ship will consume fuel equal to 0.1MJn,<BR>
> where Jn is the actual jump number used, rather than the maximum jump<BR>
> number available. Available at any industrial world with tech level 10<BR>
> or higher. Cost: Cr300,000. Mass: 1 ton. Ship produced according to<BR>
> [Book 5] already have the jump governor as part of their drives."<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
There.  You see?  It _wasn't_ just an AuricTech marketing ploy!<BR>
<BR>
Besides, AuricTech doesn't use shoddy, "off-the-shelf" modules such as<BR>
those in LBB 2.  Therefore, all of our designs already have jump<BR>
governors.  And even if AuricTech _did_ market bolt-on jump governors<BR>
for LBB 2 designs, they would be smaller and more expensive, each by a<BR>
factor of 10 (i.e., 0.1 ton and MCr 3).  After all, you get what you pay<BR>
for....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:03:53 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>         I go with the rigid modules (and include 25% waste space), but<BR>
>>>         the point that I was making is that H2 leakage should be<BR>
>>>         relatively slow.  Couldn't it be removed by the vacc suit's<BR>
>>>         life support system?<BR>
>>It *could*. But only if the designer had a reason to *expect* free<BR>
>>hydrogen *inside* the suit. Which is *very* unlikely. The stuff<BR>
>>required to deal with it isn't useful for *anything* else.<BR>
><BR>
>         If you live on a world with a H2 atmosphere, such a system<BR>
>         would be useful.<BR>
<BR>
Such a world will *not* have a breathable atmosphere. <BR>
<BR>
>>You probably have a smoke detector in your house. Maybe even a carbon<BR>
>>monoxide detector or a radon detector. But you almost certainly don't<BR>
>>have a detector for chlorine. <BR>
> <snipped><BR>
><BR>
>         I agree that most vacc suits would not include a H2 system, but on<BR>
>         a world with a substantial partial pressure of H2 I would certainly<BR>
>         expect that it would be included.<BR>
<BR>
Sure. *If* there's a colony or some sort of base there. But players may<BR>
not stop to think that they need a "special" vac suit or life support<BR>
module. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:07:58 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry, I'm comming in late (ie haven't read other posts on this topic), but <BR>
> would like to add a bit..<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:27:19   Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>>> Are there any major problems with option 3 that I haven't spotted? If<BR>
>>>> not, any clues on climatic conditions, and what will happen to the<BR>
>>>> oceans? I imagine there could be a constant high-altitude darkward wind<BR>
>>>> combined with a low-altitude brightward wind driven by the heating of<BR>
>>>> the air on the bright face. Might this happen, and what effect would it<BR>
>>>> have on precipitation patterns? What happens in the middle altitudes?<BR>
>><BR>
>>It's unlikely to rain much in the center of brightside. But it will<BR>
>>rain a lot a ways into darkside. There are varying opinions as to how<BR>
>>much (if any) of an icecap there will be. Brightside gets watered by<BR>
>>streams flowing into it from nightside. <BR>
><BR>
> Depending on how many oceans (or large bodies of water) there are on the <BR>
> brightside, and how prevailing wind patterns carry the moisture that builds <BR>
> up due to evaporation, it may be that rain will occur quite a ways into the <BR>
> brightside. <BR>
> I would also not be surprised if there is an occasional rain in the hottest <BR>
> part of the bright side, caused by cyclical weather pattern changes pushing <BR>
> rain clouds to the hot pole.<BR>
><BR>
> Keep in mind that Terrain, especially mountains also changes weather <BR>
> patterns. <BR>
><BR>
> Question: When a world is locked into a 1:1 ratio like this, does (or can) <BR>
> the shape change, ie a bulge form on the bright side?<BR>
<BR>
More likely, the system will settle into the lock with a bulge or<BR>
bulges lined up towards or away from the primary.<BR>
<BR>
Now that I think of it, one stable  config would be with a mountain<BR>
bulge *away* from the primary, and brightside being fairly deep ocean!<BR>
<BR>
The rains and snow on darkside would flow downhill to brightside, with<BR>
the ice forming glaciers.<BR>
<BR>
Over *geological* time the ocean gets shallower, and the bulge wears<BR>
down. But by then, the planet is already locked. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2160<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2161</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2161<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: [OT] D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Clones<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158<BR>
Re: Thanks GDW<BR>
Re: Clones<BR>
Comp Copies (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158)<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:06:30 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
1.   DOWNPORT AND JUMP LINKS<BR>
<BR>
The Downport idea sounds good. This can be the precursor to a jump link system,<BR>
as proposed a year or two ago by someone on the TML: each "system" has weblinks<BR>
to every other system within 6 parsecs. Just add links to the destination worlds<BR>
and include the jump distance - hells, we should even be able to come up with<BR>
some standard-sized starmap fragment that you overlay with a HTML imagemap -<BR>
just click on a nearby (detailed) world and you "jump" there!<BR>
<BR>
2.   OLD SYSTEM PAPERS<BR>
<BR>
What of the RICE Papers, the papers done for Reformation Coalition worlds, and<BR>
the papers done for the Marches post-Rebellion/pre-Virus? Can we try to avoid<BR>
these worlds that have already been "done" or ask the original authors to<BR>
regress the worlds to 1120?<BR>
<BR>
Examples include Emerald, Jewell, Ruby, Persephone, etc etc. I could try<BR>
cobbling together a list, maybe Jeff Zeitlin can fill in any holes I leave?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:11:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Question: When a world is locked into a 1:1 ratio like this, does (or<BR>
>>can) the shape change, ie a bulge form on the bright side?<BR>
><BR>
> If so, wouldn't there be a corresponding bulge on the dark side, making<BR>
> it an ellipsoid rather than pear-shaped planet?<BR>
<BR>
Not necessarily. A "pear shaped" planet can fall into a stable "lock"<BR>
with the "point" aimed in *or* out. <BR>
<BR>
And such assymettry isn't unheard of. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:22:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: James W. Lindsay <jlindsay@home.com>><BR>
> Considering how generic most BITS books are, creating something<BR>
> "sector-specific" might not be the wisest choice.  Besides, we've already<BR>
> got GURPS' BTC to compete with.  We also know that some TMLers don't<BR>
> particularly like worlds described in so much detail and prefer something<BR>
> along the lines of the upcoming "Solomani Rim" GURPS sourcebook (if the<BR>
> rumours are accurate).<BR>
<BR>
I don't want any "canon" label on anything I do.  Can't we just make this a<BR>
fun web-based reference for people?<BR>
<BR>
> OTOH, if we were to leave out the names of the worlds covered, it might<BR>
> work.  A small note near the top of each section might include something<BR>
> like "modeled after Regina/Regina" or something to that effect.  IOW, the<BR>
> worlds would be "plug & play" and *also* be modeled after actual Spinward<BR>
> Marches worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Oh no, generic worlds?  Gaah!  I think I'm having a misjump.<BR>
<BR>
> Then again, publishing something like this as a BITS product might be<BR>
> difficult.  The goal of the Spinward Marches Land Grab (SMLG) is to detail<BR>
> individual worlds as much as possible.  Doing so would require much space<BR>
> in a 48-56 page book, limiting the number of worlds covered to perhaps a<BR>
> dozen or so at most.  We could, however, call it "101 Worlds" or "101 Star<BR>
> Systems" and produce *numbered volumes* as the data is compiled.<BR>
<BR>
Publish smublish.  This is the era of open gaming!  D20 and all that.<BR>
Heresy rules!<BR>
<BR>
:-p<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:33:47 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Steve asked:<BR>
>WoTC, owners of D&D, may open the D20 game system for public<BR>
>use.  IIRC, someone on the list has seen the beta-material for this<BR>
>system.  Any comments on its quality?<BR>
<BR>
Unknown on that specific question, BUT one of my Trav groups liked AD&D so much<BR>
that we created a Trav ruleset using AD&D rules (we cheated and ripped a lot of<BR>
ideas out of the "Buck Rogers" system).<BR>
<BR>
It's on my website: Repair Bays --> Traveller as AD&D.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and since that group used K-9, his stats are compatable with this system (as<BR>
well as having a version for "normal" MT Trav/Striker). Just use the Damage<BR>
Points (DP's) for MT, and the Hit Points (HP's) for AD&D.<BR>
<BR>
See Tavonni Specialties --> trendi --> Robots --> The K-9 Robot Dog.  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:37:38 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>Within one cycle, a survey must be taken...<BR>
<BR>
One cycle of what?<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:40:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I had high hopes for that idea, but it sort of faded away.  Rob<BR>
Eaglestone and I have been talking about something vaguely like this using<BR>
the Java code he started.  The idea is for a combination Applet/Application<BR>
front end that shows the whole of known space, clickable to the Sector level<BR>
that is clickable to the Subsector level where you can click on worlds.<BR>
Clicking on a world link brings up and HTML page with system and world info.<BR>
He has several of the classes written already, but we need to sort out one<BR>
level and write the driver App/Applet.  Written that way it could be used<BR>
online or downloaded and run as an application.  Systems that are not yet<BR>
detailed would have a submission form in place of the write up :-)  Canon<BR>
and non-canon sections of the information could be duly marked.  A lot of<BR>
work, but there is no deadline looming on it, either!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
> 1.   DOWNPORT AND JUMP LINKS<BR>
> The Downport idea sounds good. This can be the precursor to a jump link<BR>
system,<BR>
> as proposed a year or two ago by someone on the TML: each "system" has<BR>
weblinks<BR>
> to every other system within 6 parsecs. Just add links to the destination<BR>
worlds<BR>
> and include the jump distance - hells, we should even be able to come up<BR>
with<BR>
> some standard-sized starmap fragment that you overlay with a HTML<BR>
imagemap -<BR>
> just click on a nearby (detailed) world and you "jump" there!<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:52:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
- --- Paul Campbell <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
>> Jen Wrote:<BR>
>> > * Pan-galactic gargle-blaster<BR>
><BR>
>From Hitchhikers Guild to the Galaxy.  One is more than enough.  Probably<BR>
>produced by a subsiduary of Famile Spofulam.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that the liquor cabinets on IMELDA and CALIGULA class yachts from Famile Spofulam Shipyards are well-stocked with the required ingredients (providing pre-mixed PGGBs would be _incredibly_ gauche!).<BR>
<BR>
BTW, as J.R. "Bob" Dobbs would say, "Too much is better than not enough!"<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:58:27 -0700<BR>
From: Dale Gyles <gyles@mtn-webtech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:42:10 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>I'm also reminded of the comment in one of the classic "Willie and<BR>
>Joe"(?) cartoons by Bill Maudlin. The two of them are looking at a tank<BR>
>and one of them says something along the lines of "a foxhole that calls<BR>
>that much attention to itself ain't gonna last long..."<BR>
<BR>
Willie says, "I'd rather dig. A moving foxhole attracts the eye."<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Dale Gyles<BR>
Black Eagle, MT<BR>
gyles@mtn-webtech.com<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:00:01 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
On 03/23/00 at 03:37 PM,  david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au said:<BR>
<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>>Within one cycle, a survey must be taken...<BR>
<BR>
>One cycle of what?<BR>
<BR>
Of the galaxy, of course. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:15:49 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> >Within one cycle, a survey must be taken...<BR>
> <BR>
> One cycle of what?<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, you should ride around your chosen world on a cycle of some<BR>
sort, taking notes of your observations.  Harley-Davidsons are a wise<BR>
and Slackful choice, but any other cycle (motor-, grav-, uni-, bi-,<BR>
tri-, or other) will serve nicely.  Note that some cycles will provide<BR>
quicker results than others.  Popsicles, having a different spelling<BR>
("sicle", rather than "cycle"), are not appropriate choices.  The<BR>
various<BR>
cycles on laundry machines and dishwashers are also inappropriate, as<BR>
these machines are usually stationary.  Computer clock cycles, although<BR>
often stationary, are a useful adjunct to your tour, and are essential<BR>
to timely dissemination of your findings.  Once you have completed your<BR>
cycle tour, you should then post your observations (i.e., your survey).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:13:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Current thought is that even true "one face worlds" (ie 1:1 lock)<BR>
>>should be reasonably habitable as long as all the water doesn't pile up<BR>
>>on the darkside.<BR>
><BR>
> What would prevent this from happening?<BR>
<BR>
If there's enough water, you get an icecap that'll flow under it's own<BR>
weight into areas where the ice can melt.<BR>
<BR>
>>Consider that a lot of places in the arctic get that much sunlight (or<BR>
>>close to it!) in midsummer. As long as the temp swings are reasonable<BR>
>>(ie it doesn't get above say 130F or below 40F) the plants will do just<BR>
>>fine.<BR>
><BR>
> That's roughly 278K-327K. I could just about do it with WBH rules...<BR>
<BR>
And I suspect that as long as there's enough water, the *plants* won't<BR>
mind temps much hugher (as long as they are below boiling! :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:19:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > [snip] If you overlay a sector with a J-6 grid<BR>
>> > you need about 40 waystations and 80 total routes [snip]<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Now take a look and see how few of the existing nodes on the J4 net are<BR>
>> on your J6 net. And consider that every single world that winds up no<BR>
>> longer being a node is going to hate your guts. <BR>
><BR>
> Sorry, Leonard, I don't follow you here. IMO, a new J-6 network would<BR>
> likely use many of the same nodes as the J-4 net. You still want to <BR>
> serve as many worlds as possible, so you're going to use J-2 scouts<BR>
> and J-4 Xboats (both very cheap to procure and operate) for the "leaf<BR>
> nodes" in the network; it's just over the long hauls of 10+ parsecs<BR>
> that you'll push the traffic onto the "backbone" of J-6 links. <BR>
<BR>
If you are using "many" of the old j4 nodes, then you *aren't* running<BR>
a J6 "net"! <BR>
<BR>
You may be sending *non* J6 ships from the new J6 nodes to the old J4<BR>
nodes, but most of the J4 nodes are now *branches* rather than part of<BR>
the "main trunk". That means they get info *later* that the nodes on<BR>
the trunk.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, it'll be faster than they got it under the old net, but for<BR>
diplomatic, military and commercial advantage what matters is<BR>
*relative* speed, not absolute speed. That is, what matters *isn't* how<BR>
long it takes the info to get to you. What matters is whether or not<BR>
you get it before the other side does. <BR>
<BR>
At *that's* why you'll run into opposition. Not because you are faster,<BR>
but because you are cvhanging which worlds get the info first!<BR>
<BR>
> I'm pretty sure it's canonical that the Imperial Xboat network uses<BR>
> Scout/Couriers to serve leaf nodes 1 and 2 parsecs off of the <BR>
> main routes, yes? <BR>
<BR>
And those nodes therefor get news *later* than nodes on the mainline.<BR>
Which makes them lose out on various opportunities.<BR>
<BR>
> And for most configurations of systems that are 7 or 8 parsecs <BR>
> apart, there's no difference between a J-4 courier and a J-6 <BR>
> courier - it's two weeks either way. <BR>
<BR>
> Once you're talking about *sectors* of distance, then you're getting <BR>
> into *months* of intelligence advantage, and that's clearly valuable <BR>
> -- look, I'm using asterisks again!<BR>
<BR>
It's not all *that* valuable except in wartime, since *everyone* get<BR>
the news faster. <BR>
<BR>
> Additionally, since (I thought we were) talking about a privately <BR>
> owned corporate network supplementing the existing Imperial J-4 <BR>
> network, what's to hate? Even if ignored by any given J-6 net, a <BR>
> world has the same connectivity it always did.<BR>
<BR>
This is like saying that since the old highway still runs through town,<BR>
you don't need to worry abou the fact that the new Interstate runs thru<BR>
a different town, after all, there are still roads connecting them.<BR>
<BR>
In *reality*, having the Interstate run through a different town is a<BR>
death sentence. Because people and businesses move to where the fastest<BR>
flow of traffic goes. And soon enough, that will also be the heaviest.<BR>
<BR>
>> You are proposing the equivalent of moving *all* (or almost all) the<BR>
>> major airports on Earth to small towns.<BR>
><BR>
> Nope, just building *new* airports in the small towns. <BR>
<BR>
*And* no longer using the old airports as "hubs", but instead demoting<BR>
them to regional centers or even "end points" on the routes. Trust me,<BR>
that makes a *big* difference in traffic flow.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:49:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> And again, I bet the anthro books have examples of stuff that'd<BR>
>> *really* bewilder players. Some, like that society of paranoids (I<BR>
>> can't find the saved file with the name of the tribe dammit!) probably<BR>
>> can't above very low TLs. Others wouldn't have that much trouble.<BR>
><BR>
> I pity the poor players who have a GM with a strong background in<BR>
> anthropology.<BR>
><BR>
> I really, really pity them. :)<BR>
><BR>
>> Here are a few more possibilities:<BR>
>><BR>
>> 1. Neo-Nazis found the "Fourth Reich" somewhere. (Give the<BR>
>> relatively low cost of interstellar travel in Traveller, I'd consider this<BR>
>> one just about a "given")<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah, but that one's so played out. Nazis are way to easy to hate.<BR>
> Personally, I'd advise going back to the Eugenics movement and pulling out<BR>
> some ideas that the Nazis *didn't* originate, or didn't put into use. For<BR>
> example, I.Q. tests are required for all citizens. Mandatory sterilization<BR>
> is required for all people below a certain I.Q., and only certain jobs are<BR>
> open to them. People below another level are simply worked to death or<BR>
> exterminated.<BR>
><BR>
> This isn't too far off the trend that America, and to some extent Britain<BR>
> and France were on until the horrors of Nazi Germany were revealed.<BR>
<BR>
Just transplant Huxley's "Brave New World" to some planet, with some of<BR>
the selection and conditioning techniques modified by what we've<BR>
learned since the 1930s.<BR>
<BR>
>> 2. Pick a fallen empire or government, *any* empire or government.<BR>
>>    *Somebody* will try to revive it. For instance, there's this planet<BR>
>>    based on the Confederate States of America...<BR>
><BR>
> Or a GM could try to dig up governments which never quite made the grade.<BR>
> The Technocracy movement (the capital T is intentional) is one example. How<BR>
> about a Fourierist <sp?> planet?<BR>
<BR>
Technocrats, *real* Communists and Marxists rather than the thugs using<BR>
them as a somoke screen that we've seen here on terra.<BR>
<BR>
>> 3. I expect to see several *extreme* matriarchies and equally<BR>
>> extreme patriarchies. As well as attempts at "single sex" worlds like<BR>
>>  Anderson's "Virgin Planet" or Bujold's Athos.<BR>
><BR>
> If you want to *really* frighten an all-male, or largely male, party build a<BR>
> society such as the one that Valerie Solanos outlines in her SCUM Manifesto.<BR>
> Scary. Kind of like Sparta, only the Helots are male. Of course, the<BR>
> Imperium might not look favorable on such a world (or Empire) but there<BR>
> *are* a lot of Client States out there.<BR>
<BR>
Not familiar with the example, but just read some of the extreme<BR>
"lesbian spepratist" stuff for ways to do much the same. The two<BR>
examples I gave aren't *nasty*, they are just viable *one sex*<BR>
societies. And, at least in the case of Athos, they won't *want* to be<BR>
"cured". <BR>
<BR>
>> And even if the group *does* "read the fine print" in the Library Data<BR>
>> for the world, and recruit some extra (female) crew, what do they do<BR>
>> with the displaced male crew? And are the females setting them up<BR>
>> for a hijacking?<BR>
><BR>
> A really interesting idea, Leonard. I may hijack it myself.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I think the "BDSM fantasy" type world could be fun.<BR>
*Especially* if a PC tries to "liberate" someone's slave. As the<BR>
Imperium found out long ago, in spite of the tag "slave", the<BR>
relationship is entirely voluntary. Which is why they don't come down<BR>
on the planet like a ton of bricks.<BR>
<BR>
   PC: "We're about to lift, I can sneak you aboard..."<BR>
Slave: "Why would I want to do *that*?"<BR>
   PC: "To be free!"<BR>
Slave: "But I *am* free. I'm well taken care of, and I don't have any<BR>
        worries except doing as I'm told for my Master."<BR>
   PC: "But he tortures you!"<BR>
Slave: "He *punishes* me when I screw up. And the 'tortures' are *fun*.<BR>
        You should try a well done flogging...<dreamy look>"<BR>
   PC: "You aren't even allowed sex without his ok!"<BR>
Slave: "Waiting increases desire. And when he does grant me that<BR>
        reward... Wow!"<BR>
       "Now if you'll excuse me, I do have to get back. If I'm late I<BR>
        won't get a whipping..."<BR>
   PC: <staring, slack-jawed at the retreating slave><BR>
<BR>
(yes, it's a *damned* unlikely society. And making it work without<BR>
abuses is even more unlikely. So what? There are people who'd love to<BR>
*try* to make it work)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:11:36 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/22/00 7:12 PM, eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> This may have been addressed, but I've a suggestion. Would it be possible that<BR>
> the two descriptions deal with two different worlds in the same system? That<BR>
> way you wouldn't have to invalidate either work.<BR>
<BR>
I was introduced to Traveller with a CT campaign that had Whanga as far<BR>
different than GT:BtC's entry and thought the same thing. This may help with<BR>
many Canon discrepencies.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:07:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
> <BR>
> >Within one cycle, a survey must be taken...<BR>
> <BR>
> One cycle of what?<BR>
<BR>
<shrug> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:15:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/22/00 7:17 PM, eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Huh? What?  Is someone mixing up Hypercleats and me?<BR>
<BR>
I really don't know, but I wanted to be sure. He posts rarely, and somebody<BR>
may have made assumptions.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:15:10 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Clones<BR>
<BR>
David,<BR>
<BR>
<< So are you saying that you intended that cloning and stuff are<BR>
 indeed common ways for nobles to produce heirs?  Or that you<BR>
 didn't address it either way and that I'm reading to much<BR>
 into the text (which I believe we call "interpreting canon"<BR>
 on the TML :-)? >><BR>
<BR>
We didn't address it either way, and my personal opinion is that it is about <BR>
as common as artificial insemination is today (but YMMV). <BR>
<BR>
Perhaps we should have said words to the effect "Norris' daughter, produced <BR>
by cloning, genetic re-arrangement to change sex, and grown in a vat (a <BR>
common means of reproducing on some worlds, and considered prime facia <BR>
evidence of the end of civilization on others)." but we never thought of it. <BR>
We never said what percentage of Regina's population is gay, left handed, <BR>
red-haired, pre-surgical transexual, attention deficit, or a few million <BR>
other things. Some of this stuff we just never got around to saying, and some <BR>
of it we didn't mention because we felt the referee is the best judge of what <BR>
goes into a given campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Have I beaten this horse enough? :  )<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:15:11 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158<BR>
<BR>
Jesse,<BR>
<BR>
<< While I haven't gotten my comp copies of the book yet (Loren, they ship out<BR>
 yet???) and can't comment on page 27 yet, I CAN tell you whats on the<BR>
 shipping container on the cover..... >><BR>
<BR>
I've autographed, them (and have the writer's cramp to prove it), but Steve's <BR>
signature has to wait until he gets back from GTS in Vegas this Friday. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:18:28 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thanks GDW<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-22 21:30:26 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Yes, our M-101A1 howitzers were getting obsolescent even in my day, but at<BR>
 least they were lightweight and portable enough to go anywhere the<BR>
 Commandant might order us.  Traveller provided a way for me to design my<BR>
 own improved alternatives, even at TL 8, and helped vent some frustration<BR>
 from our old equipment.  Thanks, GDW.  :-> >><BR>
<BR>
You're welcome (speaking for GDW).<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:31:42 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Clones<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Some of this stuff we just never got around to saying, and some<BR>
> of it we didn't mention because we felt the referee is the best judge of what<BR>
> goes into a given campaign.<BR>
<BR>
    Agreed.  But it's amazing what people can work themselves into a lather over.<BR>
(g)<BR>
<BR>
> Have I beaten this horse enough? :  )<BR>
<BR>
    The 4 horsemen say yes.  :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:51:19 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Comp Copies (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158)<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse,<BR>
> <BR>
> << While I haven't gotten my comp copies of the book yet (Loren, they ship out<BR>
>  yet???) and can't comment on page 27 yet, I CAN tell you whats on the<BR>
>  shipping container on the cover..... >><BR>
> <BR>
> I've autographed, them (and have the writer's cramp to prove it), but Steve's<BR>
> signature has to wait until he gets back from GTS in Vegas this Friday.<BR>
<BR>
<non-sarcasm><BR>
<BR>
Wow.  Tres cool!<BR>
<BR>
If _autographed_ copies of the book are provided as comp copies, then<BR>
I've _got_ to figure out a proposal that will get me a contract....  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
</non-sarcasm><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:53:53 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
> The Great TML2000 Spinward Marches Landgrab -<BR>
> http://www.downport.com/landgrab<BR>
<BR>
So I'm reading this and thinking, "Did Glenn get Mongo?"<BR>
<BR>
> Mongo/Jewell Glenn Goffin<BR>
> Esalin/Jewell Luther Martin<BR>
<BR>
Well, what do you know!<BR>
<BR>
"In the interim, the Government of Mongo wishes to remind readers of the<BR>
TML that Mongo is a leading producer of fine smoking products, leather<BR>
apparel and equipment, and decorative (but very strong) chains, and<BR>
hopes that you will consider items produced by Mongo artisans in your<BR>
gift-giving plans.  <BR>
<BR>
"Hail Ming!"<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:58:45 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Mar 2000 at 15:59 (GMT -0900), pnewman@gci.net<BR>
>Subject: Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
>Laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote<BR>
>> We keep treating a planet as one homogenous culture even<BR>
>> though most populated worlds have large populations spread over a large<BR>
>> land area in a great variety of geographical and climatilogical<BR>
>> environments.  <BR>
><BR>
>No they do not. The statistically expected population of a world<BR>
>in traveller is half a million people. I do not consider half a <BR>
>million to be a large population. I will agree that half a million<BR>
>people _can_ be spread out over a large area, as they are in my <BR>
>home state of Alaska, but we simply do not have canonical data to<BR>
>indicate how spread out the populations of typical Traveller<BR>
>planets are. If we don't know how spread out they are then we<BR>
>can not know how much the climate varies over that area.<BR>
<BR>
	Absolutely agreed that there are plenty of low pop worlds in the Imperium,<BR>
especially farther from Core.  It's the numerous high pop worlds I was<BR>
discussing.  Even in the Spinward Marches there are many high pop worlds,<BR>
and we all seem to treat them as if they have little diversity of their own.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2161<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2162</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2162<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
RE: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Comp Copies (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158)<BR>
TML Landgrab - Five Sisters<BR>
Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
TFT Traveler<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab<BR>
Landgrab details?<BR>
Re: TFT Traveler<BR>
Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
RE: Landgrab details?<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
RE: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
RE: Landgrab details?<BR>
Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:57:27 +1000<BR>
From: "Scout Harris" <scout.harry@eudoramail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:13:54   Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> That's roughly 278K-327K. I could just about do it with WBH rules...<BR>
><BR>
>And I suspect that as long as there's enough water, the *plants* won't<BR>
>mind temps much hugher (as long as they are below boiling! :-)<BR>
<BR>
And know the sheer bl**dy mindedness of life, there will be some plants that could tolerate temps obove the boiling pont of water, as there are some bacteria on earth that do!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:07:00 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> "In the interim, the Government of Mongo wishes to remind readers of the<BR>
> TML that Mongo is a leading producer of fine smoking products, leather<BR>
> apparel and equipment, and decorative (but very strong) chains, and<BR>
> hopes that you will consider items produced by Mongo artisans in your<BR>
> gift-giving plans.<BR>
><BR>
> "Hail Ming!"<BR>
<BR>
    The preceding message was brought to you by the friendly folks at<BR>
Ming-Standard Products.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:04:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Lesbian emproids and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 21 Mar 00, at 15:02, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> > If you take the position that "it's 3000 years in the future, so it must<BR>
>> > have a different culture", then you will need to throw away much of the<BR>
>> > published Traveller universe.  No doubt nearly everything is an<BR>
>> > established cultural icon on one of the 11,000 worlds, but Imperial<BR>
>> > culture as a whole is based on our own, late 20th century culture<BR>
>> > because it has to be. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Sorry, Jason, would that be "our own late 20th century culture" in  <BR>
>> San Francisco, where several of the TML folk live, and where we came<BR>
>> within spitting distance of electing a gay mayor last year, or the late<BR>
>> 20th century culture of, well, somewhere where being gay is either illegal<BR>
>> or suicidal?  <BR>
><BR>
> And in which New Zealand recently elected a transexual (I think that's <BR>
> the word I'm looking for) to Parliament?<BR>
<BR>
Depends.<BR>
<BR>
A transexual is a "man in a woman's body" or vice versa. Some opt for<BR>
surgery to correct this, others (mostly F2M) don't because at the<BR>
current state of the art, the results are pretty lame.<BR>
<BR>
A transvestite merely likes wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.<BR>
These days, a female tranvestite is just about impossible to tell from<BR>
a normal female. Male Transvestites are another matter.<BR>
<BR>
Neither has *anything* to do with what sex you are attracted to.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:22:32 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn<BR>
> On 22 Mar 00, at 18:05, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > >> Cooked dog?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Yep. An ex-flatmate told me how to cook dog so as to avoid the<BR>
> > >gameiness and stringyness. Haven't tried it, though.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > This is another thing that I would need to not know about when<BR>
> > trying it - similarly with cat or horse.<BR>
><BR>
> How about possum stew? By possum I mean the Aussie kind. IME it tastes<BR>
> Ok, but you really don't want to be around while it's being cooked -<BR>
> they don not smell nice alive or dead.<BR>
<BR>
Pukeko (a NZ swamp bird related to the rare Takahe) is a bit muddy tasting<BR>
but otherwise nice<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:35:19 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech contributed:<BR>
>> One cycle of what?<BR>
><BR>
>Obviously, you should ride around your chosen world on a cycle of some<BR>
>sort, taking notes of your observations...<BR>
<BR>
"Ahh, don't want a pickle / I just wanna ride mah motor-sickle..."<BR>
<BR>
<thwap!><BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:01:11 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I figured that I'd claim a marginal world, since I have a character who<BR>
has this world as her fief IMTU (M:1100):<BR>
<BR>
Leander/Trin's Veil<BR>
<BR>
I realize that most world-sized fiefs are granted to persons of higher<BR>
than Baronial Social Status; OTOH, Leander is a minor world (Population:<BR>
500 persons) that really only rates a Baron (or, in this case, a<BR>
Baroness).<BR>
<BR>
Note that, IMTU, a person of Baronial rank with a minor world as a fief<BR>
can be referred to by both titles, with the true rank (in terms of<BR>
relative importance in the Imperial nobility) coming first.  Thus,<BR>
Margaret Theresa Taggart-von Oldenburg, Soc C, is referred to as<BR>
"Baroness Margaret Theresa Taggart-von Oldenburg, Marchioness of<BR>
Leander", followed by any other lesser titles she may have (such as<BR>
Baroness of her husband's baronial fief).  Note that, since Baroness<BR>
Margaret Taggart-von Oldenburg's husband is a colonel on active duty in<BR>
the Imperial Army, my referee has not seen any need to detail _his_<BR>
fief.  I suspect that it is a fairly minor fief, as Baroness Taggart-von<BR>
Oldenburg has always been portrayed in our campaign as being wealthier<BR>
than her husband.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, as always, YMMV.  Caveat emptor.  Burma Shave.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:22:55 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Comp Copies (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158)<BR>
<BR>
When the first books started showing up with notes & autographs, I thought<BR>
it was pretty cool too that Steve'd take the time to do that for the<BR>
artists.  Just so long as it doesn't get to his head though ;)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:51 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Comp Copies (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2158)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Jesse,<BR>
> ><BR>
> > << While I haven't gotten my comp copies of the book yet<BR>
> (Loren, they ship out<BR>
> >  yet???) and can't comment on page 27 yet, I CAN tell you whats on the<BR>
> >  shipping container on the cover..... >><BR>
> ><BR>
> > I've autographed, them (and have the writer's cramp to prove<BR>
> it), but Steve's<BR>
> > signature has to wait until he gets back from GTS in Vegas this Friday.<BR>
><BR>
> <non-sarcasm><BR>
><BR>
> Wow.  Tres cool!<BR>
><BR>
> If _autographed_ copies of the book are provided as comp copies, then<BR>
> I've _got_ to figure out a proposal that will get me a contract....  ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> </non-sarcasm><BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:33:01 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab - Five Sisters<BR>
<BR>
People,<BR>
<BR>
I've done up most of the trade routes for Five Sisters and District 268,<BR>
together with some of the companies operating there, as part of my "Pilots<BR>
Guide to District 268" project.<BR>
<BR>
Would the people interested in doing worlds in these subsectors please email<BR>
me off-list.<BR>
<BR>
What would be good is if we can dynamically design the worlds, so that they<BR>
link to each other (eg the person doing Collace notes the same companies as<BR>
going to Karin as the person doing Karin).<BR>
<BR>
Also, someone was looking for Terry Mixon's page of trade routes. Plug "I am<BR>
looking for Terry Mixon's Spinward Marches web page" into www.askgeeves.com<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
PS My dibs on Ochetate (5 Sisters/0837). What do people know about Mewey ?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:46:28 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:58:45 -0500<BR>
>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
><BR>
>On 22 Mar 2000 at 15:59 (GMT -0900), pnewman@gci.net<BR>
>>Subject: Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>>Laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote<BR>
>>> We keep treating a planet as one homogenous culture even<BR>
>>> though most populated worlds have large populations spread over a large<BR>
>>> land area in a great variety of geographical and climatilogical<BR>
>>> environments.<BR>
>><BR>
>>No they do not. The statistically expected population of a world<BR>
>>in traveller is half a million people. I do not consider half a<BR>
>>million to be a large population. I will agree that half a million<BR>
>>people _can_ be spread out over a large area, as they are in my<BR>
>>home state of Alaska, but we simply do not have canonical data to<BR>
>>indicate how spread out the populations of typical Traveller<BR>
>>planets are. If we don't know how spread out they are then we<BR>
>>can not know how much the climate varies over that area.<BR>
><BR>
> Absolutely agreed that there are plenty of low pop worlds in the Imperium,<BR>
>especially farther from Core.  It's the numerous high pop worlds I was<BR>
>discussing.  Even in the Spinward Marches there are many high pop worlds,<BR>
>and we all seem to treat them as if they have little diversity of their<BR>
own.<BR>
><BR>
>- --Laning<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
The average population of a planet of the Imperium (based on pop rolls from<BR>
LBB3) is 1,714,674,211 [1] or aproximately 2*10^9. IE the average resident<BR>
of<BR>
the 3I is from a high pop world. There are many worlds with much smaller<BR>
populations but from a demographic standpoint these planets are close to<BR>
irrelevant. There is plenty of room for diversity on a planet of 1.7<BR>
billion.<BR>
(There is plenty of room for cultural diversity on a planet of thousands if<BR>
the thousands are spread out enough.)<BR>
<BR>
[1] based on 5*10^10/36+5*10^9*2/36... 5*10^0/36 (I actually expected a<BR>
smaller number so maybe I goofed)<BR>
<BR>
Let us now chant the mantra<BR>
Yourtravelleruniversemayvary<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:00:22 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: TFT Traveler<BR>
<BR>
Ok I realize this is silly but...<BR>
<BR>
A recent thread on rec.games.board discusing the relative<BR>
merits of Melee/Wizard/The Fantasy Trip vs Gurps as a<BR>
rule system. One of the posters noted that Gurps is an<BR>
evolutionary decendant of TFT. This got me to thinking...<BR>
why not TFT Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
We now return you to your regularly sceduled flamewar.<BR>
<BR>
Let us now chant the mantra<BR>
yourtravelleruniversemayvary<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:46:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
The grabbers have nabbed 31 grabbees thus far.  Quite a day in the Marches.<BR>
Looks as though Five Sisters has been decimated.  But, it always was a<BR>
sitting duck out there, almost Beyond.  What the Zho couldn't accomplish in<BR>
four years, the TML has done in four days!  Of course, we did have a little<BR>
help from... penguins.  See the record of the grab at<BR>
http://www.downport.com/landgrab  After ten+ changes and uploads today, I'm<BR>
signing off. :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:07:48 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Landgrab details?<BR>
<BR>
Someone asked what a Landgrab Document should include...<BR>
<BR>
 For starters, take your favorite Anal-Retentive world book (Scouts, Grand <BR>
Survey/Census, World Builder's, World Tamer's, Pocket Empires or First In) <BR>
and do EVERYTHING it provides procedures for (that apply; no need to generate <BR>
the entire history ala P.E.). Whether you roll dice or pull values off the <BR>
chart to suit is of no import.<BR>
 Next, use all this information to generate several finished documents:<BR>
<BR>
 -The "short-form" Library Data entry that players will get if they look up <BR>
the world. This should be no more than a few paragraphs, and often only one.<BR>
 -The Astrogator's Guide to the system: The UWPs for the entire system, as <BR>
well as supplementary info like orbital eccentricities and orbital periods <BR>
(ie. year length). Can also include notes on expected solar activity, <BR>
restricted flight paths, how the solar jump-horizon affects travel, available <BR>
highports vs downports, and other things the pilot/navigator would want to <BR>
know.<BR>
 -The "One-Page" Library Data entry created by DGP: world UWP, system <BR>
schematic, world map, lots of color text. This will also include notes about <BR>
Amber or Red status.<BR>
 -The "long form" Library Data entry that player Scouts get when they look up <BR>
the world. May include most of the above generated info, as well as a basic <BR>
UWP page for the entire system. This can include notes about Amber or Red <BR>
status and tips for "Surviving the first 48 hours Onworld".<BR>
 <BR>
 Other things are also possible. The recent tour prospectus is a marvelous <BR>
example. Details like the Octogon Society buildings, whether or not the world <BR>
is on the XBoat routes, the name of the JTAS facility onworld, the name of <BR>
the main port's StationMaster and/or PortMaster (or just the Security <BR>
Chief...)<BR>
<BR>
 You can also choose to ignore me  ;>  but I would still consider the first <BR>
three documents easy to do and most useful...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:13:53 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveler<BR>
<BR>
DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ok I realize this is silly but...<BR>
><BR>
> A recent thread on rec.games.board discusing the relative<BR>
> merits of Melee/Wizard/The Fantasy Trip vs Gurps as a<BR>
> rule system. One of the posters noted that Gurps is an<BR>
> evolutionary decendant of TFT. This got me to thinking...<BR>
> why not TFT Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Well for one it give the Zodani way too much power...<BR>
<BR>
Think of it...<BR>
<BR>
When you run out of IQ for skill You have to go to<BR>
them to help you forget you knew how to do it...<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:08:24 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
Thought I'd take a couple of minutes off (hurridly) working on AR3 to post<BR>
some shots of the ships I've fully completed so far.  All are Hiver ships.<BR>
I'll also be doing two Droyne ships, but I haven't finished those yet.<BR>
<BR>
WARNING:  I dumped 'em all on one page, 'cause I'm lazy and don't have the<BR>
spare time to create seperate pages for them.  Backgrounds are also pretty<BR>
similar.  Oh well ;)  If you're on a 28.8 modem, it might take up to 9<BR>
minutes to download, to give you an idea of the size....<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_news.htm to find<BR>
the link to the Hivers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:20:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Mr. Hamilton I want to point out that there is a game like this. It's called<BR>
Zero. and yes people do buy it and play it. And a universe with any kind<BR>
strife is more fun to play then one where everything works. In that game ppl<BR>
rebel against the hive, or hunt down ppl that rebel. it's just another<BR>
setting. One complaint that has been made was that CT was boring because<BR>
there was no strife and player behaved in ain't socially to have fun. And<BR>
example of which is breaking and entering and bank jobs that was the first<BR>
types of adventures. So never say no one would ever play any setting because<BR>
there are ppl who do.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:49 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--- Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
>> From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> > Yes, your right. But this doesn't apply to the 3I,<BR>
>> > since those break-throughs are not included in the<BR>
>> > game. The 3I is more a feudal 1980 with<BR>
>> spaceships.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Okay, fair enough John. Let's imagine, for the sake<BR>
>> of this discussion, that<BR>
>> J-Man is right, and that three thousand years from<BR>
>> now everything is<BR>
>> completely different. Humans are a digital hivemind,<BR>
>> and effectively<BR>
>> immortal. Bodies can be generated via a combination<BR>
>> of nanotechnology and<BR>
>> genetic engineering. Humans can completely control<BR>
>> their environments from<BR>
>> top to bottom.<BR>
><BR>
>> In short, what would a roleplaying game look like in<BR>
>> this universe?<BR>
><BR>
>It wouldn't have a look at all, cause no sane<BR>
>publisher would make such a RPG. Who would buy it?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Would it<BR>
>> be fun?<BR>
><BR>
>No.<BR>
><BR>
> Would the characters have any personal<BR>
>> control over their own<BR>
>> destinies? Does such a background support a small<BR>
>> group of players with a<BR>
>> high degree of autonomy?<BR>
><BR>
>Such a background is simply unplayable. Every RPG  (or<BR>
>movie,or TV.......) has to contain a good dose of<BR>
>unreality to function. ( How far would a real life PC<BR>
>group with some guns come in a conflict with even a<BR>
>small town conspiracy? )<BR>
><BR>
>Nevertheless, humans in the year 5000 will probably<BR>
>look more like the Borg than Emperor Strephon.<BR>
><BR>
>__________________________________________________<BR>
>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
>http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:18:34 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Landgrab details?<BR>
<BR>
Especially useing Stuart Ferris' "Heaven & Earth" software....<BR>
<BR>
<shameless plug><BR>
for which I did the startup and wait screen artwork for.<BR>
:)<BR>
</shameless plug><BR>
<BR>
I fully plan on useing the s/w for Patinir / Aramis, as well as detailed<BR>
info writeups.<BR>
<BR>
IYTU, YMMV, DSLIMHaBtF, DBTWP, and BAIBWAR3<BR>
<BR>
And if you can figure all of those out, I'll do a custom piece for you <time<BR>
permitting of course>   ;)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:08 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Landgrab details?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Someone asked what a Landgrab Document should include...<BR>
><BR>
>  For starters, take your favorite Anal-Retentive world book<BR>
> (Scouts, Grand<BR>
> Survey/Census, World Builder's, World Tamer's, Pocket Empires or<BR>
> First In)<BR>
> and do EVERYTHING it provides procedures for (that apply; no need<BR>
> to generate<BR>
> the entire history ala P.E.). Whether you roll dice or pull<BR>
> values off the<BR>
> chart to suit is of no import.<BR>
>  Next, use all this information to generate several finished documents:<BR>
><BR>
>  -The "short-form" Library Data entry that players will get if<BR>
> they look up<BR>
> the world. This should be no more than a few paragraphs, and<BR>
> often only one.<BR>
>  -The Astrogator's Guide to the system: The UWPs for the entire<BR>
> system, as<BR>
> well as supplementary info like orbital eccentricities and<BR>
> orbital periods<BR>
> (ie. year length). Can also include notes on expected solar activity,<BR>
> restricted flight paths, how the solar jump-horizon affects<BR>
> travel, available<BR>
> highports vs downports, and other things the pilot/navigator<BR>
> would want to<BR>
> know.<BR>
>  -The "One-Page" Library Data entry created by DGP: world UWP, system<BR>
> schematic, world map, lots of color text. This will also include<BR>
> notes about<BR>
> Amber or Red status.<BR>
>  -The "long form" Library Data entry that player Scouts get when<BR>
> they look up<BR>
> the world. May include most of the above generated info, as well<BR>
> as a basic<BR>
> UWP page for the entire system. This can include notes about Amber or Red<BR>
> status and tips for "Surviving the first 48 hours Onworld".<BR>
><BR>
>  Other things are also possible. The recent tour prospectus is a<BR>
> marvelous<BR>
> example. Details like the Octogon Society buildings, whether or<BR>
> not the world<BR>
> is on the XBoat routes, the name of the JTAS facility onworld,<BR>
> the name of<BR>
> the main port's StationMaster and/or PortMaster (or just the Security<BR>
> Chief...)<BR>
><BR>
>  You can also choose to ignore me  ;>  but I would still consider<BR>
> the first<BR>
> three documents easy to do and most useful...<BR>
><BR>
> GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:40:01 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote<BR>
<BR>
> << Take a look at Sol subsector. Kaguk/Sol, the system where this<BR>
>  battle probably took place, is Jump-2 from Mukhaldim, Jump-3 from<BR>
>  Cymbeline, and Jump-3 from Ember. It's Jump-1 from nowhere.<BR>
>  Jump-0 takes the same fuel as Jump-1, so it's reasonable that<BR>
>  Bard Endeavor had enough fuel for an in-system jump, without <BR>
>  having enough fuel to get to another star system.<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> This is correct. She jumped in and drained her tanks DRY. Why she did this is <BR>
> beyond me, since AHL's are J5. <BR>
<BR>
I think that she jumped in on a J-2 0r J-3 leaving<BR>
her enough fuel for, respectively, a J-3 or J-2.<BR>
Then she took a Fuel-1 or Fuel-2 Hit in earlier combat.<BR>
This left her with only enough fuel for a Jump 1.<BR>
Jump 1 = up to and including 1 parsec. A stationary jump <BR>
of 0 meters is thus a jump 1.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:24:03 -0000<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Ferguson [mailto:ian@vax2.concordia.ca]<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >>         I hadn't realized that H2 could diffuse through <BR>
> solid metal,<BR>
> what kind<BR>
> >>         of pressure differential is required to make this <BR>
> flow significant?<BR>
> >None. What's required is a *concentration* differential. <BR>
> That is, what<BR>
> >matters is that the *partial pressure* of hydrogen on each <BR>
> side of the<BR>
> >partition be different.<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> 	Strictly speaking, a concentration differential by <BR>
> itself is insufficient.<BR>
> 	It is the partial pressure, as I am (and, no doubt, you <BR>
> are) aware.<BR>
<BR>
But surely, as Leonard states, Concentration differential and Partial<BR>
Pressure differential are equivalent. After all, the partial pressure of<BR>
a substance = the concentration of that substance in a given volume,<BR>
doesn't it?<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:37:19 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Landgrab details?<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> Especially useing Stuart Ferris' "Heaven & Earth" software....<BR>
> <BR>
> <shameless plug><BR>
> for which I did the startup and wait screen artwork for.<BR>
> :)<BR>
> </shameless plug><BR>
> <BR>
> I fully plan on useing the s/w for Patinir / Aramis, as well as detailed<BR>
> info writeups.<BR>
> <BR>
> IYTU, YMMV, DSLIMHaBtF, DBTWP, and BAIBWAR3<BR>
> <BR>
> And if you can figure all of those out, I'll do a custom piece for you <time<BR>
> permitting of course>   ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
IYTU, 		In Your Traveller Universe<BR>
YMMV, 		Your Milage May Vary<BR>
DSLIMHaBtF,     Doesn't Seem Like I'll Manage Having a Break till Friday<BR>
DBTWP, 		Due Basically To Work Pressure<BR>
BAIBWAR3,	Being As I'm Busy With Alien Races 3<BR>
<BR>
How close am I?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:11:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>     Yep, skyscrapers are not the Maginot Line, a Japanese-fortified island in<BR>
> the WW2 Pacific, nor even Dien Bien Phu.  But *in the existing terrain* of<BR>
> a city that is being more or less evenly contested in war, they are the<BR>
> high ground..  Modern battle tends to be fluid.  Battles in modern times<BR>
> generally don't involve fortifications beyond the hasty ones built with<BR>
> some sandbags--at most.  There are, of course, many exceptions.  Hasty<BR>
> fortifications can be erected on ground level and to some degree even upper<BR>
> levels of skyscrapers.  BTW, anyone using a skyscraper as a defensive<BR>
> position might be advised to avoid the top two or three floors.  Those<BR>
> floors would serve best for absorbing incoming artillery rounds and air<BR>
> strikes.<BR>
<BR>
In the Lensman books, E.E. Smith has the Patrol having to dig out<BR>
Boskonian elements from buildings in the middle of a city. Their first<BR>
hint of trouble is when they discover that *non* of the inspectors who<BR>
certified the building when it was built can be found, and that no<BR>
inspectors have been inside since. Thus, they realize that there's *no*<BR>
guarantee that the plans on file have any resemblance whatsoever to the<BR>
real layout.<BR>
<BR>
Turns out they are right. The "public" sections of the building are a<BR>
shell around a *major* fortification. Complete withdreadnought level<BR>
shields and weapons... It's an *ugly* battle, even though they managed<BR>
to evacuate the non-combats before attacking...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2162<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2163</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2163<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: nearby stellar data<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Clones<BR>
Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment <BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
I bags Naseem (Spinward Marches 3003 - Aramis subsector)<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Couple of things world designers might find handy<BR>
Re: Populations [Was Re: Cultural relativism] <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:45:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I wanted to get the learned opinion of the TML on the following I was <BR>
> thinking of buying? <BR>
><BR>
> 1. Judges Guild Ley sector supplement and Crucis Margin supplements? I know <BR>
> there has been some criticism of these because of the stellar data...<BR>
<BR>
I think they were a bit too free high TLs and other things that should<BR>
be rare. Also note even the star positions aren't canonical anymore. <BR>
<BR>
In short, if you use them, you need to relocate them or dump any<BR>
official data for the area.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:08:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tide-locked worlds<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:13:54   Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>> That's roughly 278K-327K. I could just about do it with WBH rules...<BR>
>><BR>
>>And I suspect that as long as there's enough water, the *plants* won't<BR>
>>mind temps much hugher (as long as they are below boiling! :-)<BR>
><BR>
> And know the sheer bl**dy mindedness of life, there will be some plants that <BR>
> could tolerate temps obove the boiling pont of water, as there are some <BR>
> bacteria on earth that do!<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you dissolve enough "other stuff" in there you raise the<BR>
boiling point a *lot*. But those bacteria generally cheat by living<BR>
under pressure, which raises the boiling point.<BR>
<BR>
I remember looking into this tank of "clear water" on one macine at<BR>
work. It was more or less open to the air. No trace of boiling, though<BR>
the surface was "disturbed" in a manner that indicated to those of us<BR>
familar with such things *lots* of convection occurring. The temp? 180<BR>
degrees C. <BR>
<BR>
It was essentially a *saturated* solution of potassium hydroxide. Used<BR>
to degrease and etch silicon wafers. It etched by *dissolving* the SiO2<BR>
layer from the surface. Which exposed raw Si to water, which it reacted<BR>
with to create more SiO2, which dissolved... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Nobody was ever dumb enough to even *think* about doing it, but we<BR>
basicly warned new hires that if they *were* dumb enough to stick their<BR>
hand in that tank, we suspected they'd be lucky to draw back more than<BR>
bones... <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, if you can have a "peaceful pool" at 180 C, I imagine plants<BR>
could probably manage 120 or so for short periods. *Complex* plants.<BR>
Blue-green algae can already thrive just short of boiling.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:53:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I also have an acquaintance whose life was saved during a 7-11 robbery<BR>
> because he wore SCA-style abutted mail beneath his uniform shirt.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav:<BR>
> Chainmail is incredibly good against knives. I can see 5mm diameter link<BR>
> mail being fairly common on worlds with dueling cultures.<BR>
<BR>
If anybody comes up with a decent means of *automatically* producing<BR>
"welded" link mail in "sheets", they'll get rich. <BR>
<BR>
Such will essentially be as strong as solid links (and may actually<BR>
involve *using* solid links for every other row. And it would go well<BR>
with kevlar vests and the like.<BR>
<BR>
As a few people have learned the hard way, kevlar vests provide<BR>
essentially *no* protection against *sharp* and *pointy* objects. <BR>
<BR>
So mail over kelvar would work nicely for lots of situations. The big<BR>
problem is the same as with "just" kevlar. Any moisture in the vest<BR>
*drastically* reduces its effectiveness, so it needs to have a *water*<BR>
(and sweat) proof lining. It doesn't "breathe" worth a damn.<BR>
<BR>
I think the ultimate would be a "composite" consisting of something<BR>
light such as aluminum/titanium for the binder with buckytubes for<BR>
strength. If the process "spins" the links in place, it'd probably stop<BR>
bullets. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> << Heck, back in Victorian times the woman wasn't supposed to enjoy it, it<BR>
>  was just her "duty". >><BR>
><BR>
> There are several Victorian "Marriage Manuals" that make interesting (also <BR>
> frightening and amusing) reading.<BR>
<BR>
If you ever want to scare a kid silly (or scare yourself) check out<BR>
Victorian methods of dealing with masturbation!<BR>
<BR>
> << So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
>  necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
>  that strange? >><BR>
><BR>
> Rumor has it that lesbianism wasn't specifically against the law in <BR>
> Victorian <BR>
> England because nobody had the courage to explain what it was to Queen <BR>
> Victoria.<BR>
><BR>
> I find this difficult to believe for several reasons, but it's a nice story.<BR>
<BR>
As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:26:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu> wrote<BR>
><BR>
>> Eh. Ask twenty different "true" homosexuals, you'll probably get<BR>
>> twenty-one different answers.<BR>
>> I've seen a survey done in the United States where the majority of<BR>
>> respondents who self-identified as homosexual had performed sexually at <BR>
>> least once with someone of the opposite gender, and that a significant<BR>
>> percentage did so with some frequency even *after* that point in<BR>
>> their lives when they had identified themselves as homosexual. This was <BR>
>> on a survey where "bisexual" was presented as a self-identification <BR>
>> choice.<BR>
><BR>
>> I recall a significant percentage of self-identified heterosexuals <BR>
>> reporting one or more homosexual experiences, so it apparently<BR>
>> goes both ways.<BR>
><BR>
> You do realize that your use of the phrase "goes both ways"<BR>
> is a discussion of people who self identify as homosexual<BR>
> or heterosexual is 1) funny and 2) begs the question of the <BR>
> validity of these self identifications.<BR>
<BR>
If you faced a beating or worse if folks found out you prefered women,<BR>
want to bet that you *wouldn't* be able to force yourself to do it with<BR>
a man?<BR>
<BR>
*That* is what gay men face even *now*...<BR>
<BR>
Me, I'm mostly straight. I define that as I go looking for women, but I<BR>
wouldn't turn down the right man if I ran into him. I just won't go<BR>
looking for him... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:22:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 22 Mar 00, at 16:43, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> <BR>
>> > >> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> > >Sounds Ok<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> > This, I don't really see a problem with.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Sigh. If you knew how they _harvested_ those things you sure as heck<BR>
>> would! Even if you don't LIKE sharks, it's a horrifically cruel way of<BR>
>> doing it.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> The mania for shark fin soup has lead to such horrendous overfishing to<BR>
>> the point that many shark species are endangered. (as when any culture<BR>
>> with several billion people get a mania for something...)<BR>
><BR>
> That's a different issue from being able to handle the dish itself, <BR>
> IMO. I agree with you about the "harvesting" methods used, though.<BR>
<BR>
Shark "steaks" are supposed to be pretty good too. Shark fin is likely<BR>
to be a lot like manta ray "wings" which is what you are eating as<BR>
"scallops" most of the time...<BR>
<BR>
If (as I have heard) they are harvesting *just the fin and throwing the<BR>
rest of the fish away, I'd like to harvest some "minor" bits of tissue<BR>
from them. Double orchiectomy, anyone?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:34:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: nearby stellar data<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hello.  For those of you interested in the local neighborhood i've updated<BR>
> my nearstar databases of XYZ coordinates to make them more user-friendly.<BR>
> Downloads are now available for an Excel 97 spreadsheet, Access 97 database,<BR>
> comma delimited CSV file, and a tab delimited text file.<BR>
><BR>
> You can find them at www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dstars.htm<BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately the data do not contain motion for the stars so the data are<BR>
> totally unsuited for you 2300 zealots.  Or so i've been told :)<BR>
<BR>
Well, that makes them even *worse for Milieu 0 and for the 1100-1200<BR>
Imperial periods. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:27:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:42:10 PST<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>>Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
>><BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>I'm also reminded of the comment in one of the classic "Willie and<BR>
>>Joe"(?) cartoons by Bill Maudlin. The two of them are looking at a tank<BR>
>>and one of them says something along the lines of "a foxhole that calls<BR>
>>that much attention to itself ain't gonna last long..."<BR>
><BR>
> Willie says, "I'd rather dig. A moving foxhole attracts the eye."<BR>
<BR>
That's the one! <BR>
<BR>
You know, if permission to reproduce isn't too expensive, that cartoon<BR>
and a few others would be rather appropriate as "sidebars" in the<BR>
ground forces stuff...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:31:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Clones<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> David,<BR>
><BR>
> << So are you saying that you intended that cloning and stuff are<BR>
>  indeed common ways for nobles to produce heirs?  Or that you<BR>
>  didn't address it either way and that I'm reading to much<BR>
>  into the text (which I believe we call "interpreting canon"<BR>
>  on the TML :-)? >><BR>
><BR>
> We didn't address it either way, and my personal opinion is that it is about <BR>
> as common as artificial insemination is today (but YMMV). <BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps we should have said words to the effect "Norris' daughter, produced <BR>
> by cloning, genetic re-arrangement to change sex, and grown in a vat (a <BR>
> common means of reproducing on some worlds, and considered prime facia <BR>
> evidence of the end of civilization on others)." but we never thought of it. <BR>
> We never said what percentage of Regina's population is gay, left handed, <BR>
> red-haired, pre-surgical transexual, attention deficit, or a few million <BR>
> other things. Some of this stuff we just never got around to saying, and <BR>
> some <BR>
> of it we didn't mention because we felt the referee is the best judge of <BR>
> what <BR>
> goes into a given campaign.<BR>
><BR>
> Have I beaten this horse enough? :  )<BR>
<BR>
I get your point. But I *would* like to suggest to *someone* that the<BR>
rules could use a note to the referee stating something like:<BR>
<BR>
While this culture is described as if it is very similar to current<BR>
earth culture, any aspect of culture that isn't *specificly* described<BR>
in the rules may be quite different. The referree should keep this in<BR>
mind, and perhaps toss in a few "differences" that remind players this<BR>
*isn't* 20th century Earth. <BR>
<BR>
The best way is often to change something "everyone" takes for granted.<BR>
Describe it correctly, and when the players go "What!?" point out that<BR>
to their *characters* this is normal. <BR>
<BR>
Don't beat them over the head, just jar them a bit, so they will<BR>
*remember* this isn't necessarily modern day Earth with spaceships and<BR>
a different government.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:21:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Heck, back in Victorian times the woman wasn't supposed to enjoy it, it<BR>
> was just her "duty". So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
> necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
> that strange?<BR>
><BR>
> Remember, "gay" does *not* mean that you *can't* perform with members<BR>
> of the opposite sex. Just that you'd really rather do it with members<BR>
> of your own sex.<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
> I've been told differently, that true homosexuality is not this way.<BR>
> I don't profess to know.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone talking about "true homosexuality" is BSing you.<BR>
<BR>
Look at it this way. If you had a *strong* reason (like a gun to your<BR>
head) could you do it with a guy?. How about if it was the only way to<BR>
have children? <BR>
<BR>
If you answer "yes", does that mean that you aren't a "true<BR>
heterosexual"? <BR>
<BR>
This sort of thing lies along a spectrum. The folks at the extreme ends<BR>
may not be able to do it. But they are a *decided* minority...<BR>
<BR>
> I do know that with thousands of other planets each with hundreds of<BR>
> different ideas and religions, anything is up for debate/jihad.<BR>
<BR>
You got *that* right.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:08:27 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
>Eris...that's my *name* not just my address. <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Were you parents Discordians?<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:50:53 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Beginnings of Political Flamefest Entertainment <BR>
<BR>
>Yep. Kosovo. Where the US and NATO are going to the aid of a bunch of drug <BR>
>smugglers (the KLA) to protect the KLA's business interests from their <BR>
>main competors, the Serbs. (The line between where Serb organized crime <BR>
>ends and the Serb government begins is a little hazy.)<BR>
><BR>
>Try Http://www.stratfor.com<BR>
><BR>
>The lastest updates from the Kosovo area are interesting. Looks like NATO <BR>
>might change sides.<BR>
<BR>
First of all, the NATO doesnt support any SIDE in Kosovo, they are just as <BR>
busy keeping Serbs from killing Albanians than the other way round.<BR>
<BR>
Second, they didnt go in to help the KLA. They went in to stop the killing <BR>
of civilian Albanians who were being driven from their homes by a Serb <BR>
nationalist government and their goons. In short, they were trying to stop <BR>
a second Bosnia-Herzegovina (where they didnt act until it was too late). <BR>
That the KLA was on their side during the war was because of the fact that <BR>
they were enemies of the serbs as well (Your enemies enemy is usually to be <BR>
considered to be your friend)<BR>
<BR>
The NATO strike and deployment was a necessary step to prevent another mass <BR>
genocide in Europe. Sad thing beening that in the case of Russias attack on <BR>
civilians, they remained silent. But that double standard is a different <BR>
issue....<BR>
<BR>
(ObTrav: Reminds one of what the meaning of balkanized as in Gov-Type 7 <BR>
really means)<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:55:23 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
>I submit that "rule by the best" is indeed what happens in Western cultures.<BR>
>No one is elected president of the United States who doesn't have a<BR>
>substantial education and substantial funds.  Not only is it "rule by the<BR>
>best" in a material sense, but also in a moral sense - US citizens want the<BR>
>best man in more than one sense.  Elections are held with the purpose of<BR>
>finding the best man for the job, but there are people who could never<BR>
>seriously be considered candidates, and there are some who are obvious<BR>
>candidates.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, it usually strikes me as odd that the ones with the most money are <BR>
supposed to be the best in a moral sense as well... Usually its the other <BR>
way round.<BR>
<BR>
Face it, you may have the perfect man in your midst, with the perfect moral <BR>
background, and the right ideas, but hell never be elected in a western <BR>
style democracy, because he probably hasnt got the funds to finance his <BR>
campaign (in the US at least), and probably wont have party support <BR>
(everywhere).<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:39:02 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
<BR>
Or - why officers kept their swords when muskets dominated the battlefield.<BR>
<BR>
N'kay, here it goes. Muskets had crappy range in 1700's (me thinks) about<BR>
80m effective. To keep up a continuos, massed (relatively) volley of fire it<BR>
meant fairly densely packed lines of troops three ranks deep - two to load,<BR>
one to fire, followed by some role reversal. Because of the el-sucko range<BR>
it meant watching a mass of men comin' at you and you waiting to let loose<BR>
yourself - but waiting until they are darn tootin' close before letting<BR>
fly - can anyone say 'eyes whites of'?<BR>
<BR>
Naturally this be scary - v-e-e-e-e-e-r-r-r-y scary. Consequently, given the<BR>
nature of the bulk of the troops - aka scum - most wanted to leg it before<BR>
this point. This is where Mr Officer with sword comes in. Apparently the<BR>
deal was to run through any man who looked a tad askance at the prospect of<BR>
conjoined musket volleys and thus preserve discipline where it was needed<BR>
most - to hold the line to get some shooting in. Thus - okay you have a good<BR>
chance of some wounds/death in sharing volleys but a certain one if you<BR>
considered legging it.<BR>
<BR>
As a consequence desertions en route happened on a frequent basis so they<BR>
had a bunch of rules/guidelines to stop it happening - Least night marches<BR>
as possible (prime legging it chances), limited scouting (scout this, I'm<BR>
off), limited foraging (hmm do I bring back this potato or do I leg it),<BR>
pickets at nights to keep 'em in (gee no one is looking - time for some leg<BR>
it action), avoid forests (look a battle - look a leafy tree - cartoon smoke<BR>
outline of recently departed) and of course guards with bayonets when having<BR>
a swim (if he's pretending to be a fish then I'll treat him like one -<BR>
thwock!).<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah - barracks were partially the result of roll call worries - better<BR>
to lock 'em in together instead of letting 'em go home.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav; The difference in tech leaves means the possibility of watching<BR>
'living history'. Why write about tech 6 nuclear conflict when you can watch<BR>
it live? Or tech 3 pikes and co having a rumble - I'd see imperial tri-d<BR>
crews having a bit of a film (via sats or high altitude bots) of primitive<BR>
war in action. Hey look - an adventure seed!<BR>
<BR>
PS If you're going to pick - then please be nice. Like I said - I'm<BR>
learning.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:44:08 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: I bags Naseem (Spinward Marches 3003 - Aramis subsector)<BR>
<BR>
I think that settles that.<BR>
<BR>
Give me an N, give me a AS, give me an EEM, give me ..... something to<BR>
remove this EEM from my AS.<BR>
<BR>
I like the TML. Good for what ails you.<BR>
<BR>
SEC*: Michael<BR>
<BR>
*Sick of Michael who - life was much simpler when I had to SEC:UNCLASS<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:46:42 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 23:32 22.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> > Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
> > Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
> > machen?<BR>
><BR>
>Un royaume de onze cent dix-sept ans, non . Quant au<BR>
>problme de Droyne, comme Retief a dit: " Aucune population,<BR>
>aucun malaise populaire. " Non?<BR>
><BR>
>Parlez en Anglais sur le TML s'il vous plat, je ne parlent<BR>
>pas la langue Allemande.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, that was not German, that was Genglish (what English-speaking people <BR>
think the German translation would be ;-)<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:59:44 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Couple of things world designers might find handy<BR>
<BR>
Life Score : Roll 2d6-2. The lower it is, the less diverse life there is on<BR>
the planet - zero is no life, ten is a Terra-complexity biosystem. Apply<BR>
appropriate DMs for vacuum worlds and stuff like that.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Equity : Roll 2d6, then consult the table below<BR>
<BR>
     12    10% of the population control 20% of the wealth (start humming<BR>
"Oh Christmas Tree")<BR>
     11    10% of the population control 30% of the wealth<BR>
     10    10% of the population control 40% of the wealth<BR>
    <etc.><BR>
     7     10% of the population control 90% of the wealth (the Imperial<BR>
norm)<BR>
     6     5% of the population control 90% of the wealth<BR>
     5     2% of the population control 90% of the wealth<BR>
     4    1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth<BR>
     3    1% of the population controls 95% of the wealth<BR>
     2    1% of the population controls 99% of the wealth (note to Hengabar<BR>
: a good market for Imelda and J-class racing yachts)<BR>
<BR>
Note that a small rich class is good for small batches of very expensive<BR>
luxuries, while a large middle class is good for large batches of "cheap"<BR>
luxuries. Note that a combination of high law level and low equity score may<BR>
indicate that the masses are not happy with their lot ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Fudge Factor GWP for small worlds<BR>
<BR>
Per capita income = Cr 10 * TL * Resources * Infrastructure.<BR>
<BR>
If you dont have PE, resources roughly equal 2d6-2 (1d6-1 if you as As, Ba<BR>
or Po), plus 1 per Asteroid Belt or Gas Giant if the world is TL8+.<BR>
Infrastructure has a max of TL, and represents how well developed you are<BR>
(China has a TL of 7 and an Infrastructure of about 5 for example. US is<BR>
probably 8 and 8. Australia is probably 8 and 7). This will return smaller<BR>
numbers than most other Trav income rules, but I think Striker/TCS and GT<BR>
rules over-state income for small pop worlds (if you have a small<BR>
population, you get less economies of scale in everything, and therefore<BR>
more inefficiency).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Who's Here ?<BR>
<BR>
The Rank of the leader of a world is defined by the world's GWP +1, rounding<BR>
up (eg Ochetate's Colonial Governor is rank 2.5 + 1 or 4. Glisten's<BR>
Chair-General is rank 6.0 + 1 or 7). Their Career tends towards Bureaucrat<BR>
or Noble, but may be Military (often Army), Diplomat, Merchant or even a<BR>
Scout on some backwater. Age is 34+(2d6-2) terms.<BR>
<BR>
The rank of the top military person (usually 1/2 chance of Navy, 1/3 Army,<BR>
1/6 Marines) and the top business tycoon (Merchant or Noble) is equal to<BR>
GWP. Age is 42 + 1d6 terms.<BR>
<BR>
Each megacorp (Makhadurin, Shuraashid, Naasirka, GsBAG, General Products,<BR>
Tukera, Delagado, Hortalez et Cie, SuSAG, InstellArms,Ling Standard and I<BR>
forget the others), Sector corp and Subsector Corp has a chance of being<BR>
represented by a GWP level rep if they can roll on or under the world's WTN<BR>
on 2 dice (automatically present on the highest WTN world of an Imperial<BR>
subsector) <this reflects my view that LSP may not be more important on any<BR>
given world than the subsector level company Rimward Resources Ltd, but it<BR>
will certainly be represented on more worlds>. Age is 34 + (2d6-2) terms.<BR>
<BR>
The Chief of any Scout Base is automatically rank 4. The Admiral of any<BR>
Depot is Rank 7, other Naval Bases (and the associated Fleet units) are<BR>
commanded by Rank 6 Admirals. Age as per Planetary military.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Exploitation Rules for GT:FT<BR>
<BR>
NB This is my rule to attempt to end a long-running argument between me and<BR>
Jim Maclean in my favour. The page 14 sidebar is his POV. This is mine. It<BR>
has the effect of drastically reducing the ratio between trade and GWP for<BR>
most worlds in the Imperium (IMO Singapore and Hong Kong are economies in<BR>
the same way  the Port of San Francisco is an economy - they are merely the<BR>
port, warehouse and finance districts of a much larger economy. And<BR>
Luxemburg is not an economy, it is an accident of history).<BR>
<BR>
Whilst the BTN does produce a "value" for interestellar trade between two<BR>
worlds, the benefits of this trade are not shared equally. If there is a<BR>
constant in the history of commerce, it is that whilst all benefit from<BR>
trade, they do not benefit equally. The poor and the weak must act, whilst<BR>
the rich and the powerful may act or not act at their choosing. The powerful<BR>
also have that most useful of economic weapons, ready cash up front.<BR>
Therefore the poor and the weak tend to find themselves in the roles of<BR>
working for the rich and the powerful - the most profitable links in the<BR>
chain will almost always be owned by the most powerful actors, and the poor<BR>
will be left with the less-profitable scraps.<BR>
<BR>
A rule of thumb is that the benefit accrued to a planetary economy from<BR>
trade will be expressed by the net value of the trade multiplied by the<BR>
ratio of the square of their technology levels (net value of trade is the<BR>
value minus the cost of transport. And if you take the time to figure the<BR>
cost of transport, then you figured how many trading ships the route<BR>
actually supports, which will give you how busy the starport is, which as a<BR>
piece of chrome is pretty good).<BR>
<BR>
Benefit to source world = (<Value of bi-lateral trade in Credits per year><BR>
divided by (source TL^2/destination TL^2) )- (Dtons per year * cheapest<BR>
transport cost <GT:FT p22>).<BR>
<BR>
Example : Ocetate E747569-7 trades with Glisten A000986-F to the tune of MCr<BR>
25/2500 dtons per annum (BTN 7). Ochetate's GDP is about MCr 120 by the<BR>
fudge-factor Small World GWP above.<BR>
<BR>
13 parsecs to Glisten at Cr 400 per parsec, so transport costs are<BR>
Cr5200x2500 dtons, or about MCr 2.8<BR>
<BR>
Glisten's TL is 15 and Ochetate's is 7, so the benefit ratio is 49:225 or<BR>
about 2:9 .<BR>
<BR>
Therefore Ochetate gets about MCr 2 benefit from "MCr 25" worth of exports.<BR>
The rest is chewed up in the Net Invisibles to cover shipping costs and<BR>
repatriated profits from those foriegn-owned fish meal factories and whale<BR>
oil refineries. This cuts the importance of this not-even-a-trade-route down<BR>
from 20% of GWP down to about 2%.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I hear you ask, what stops a Free Trader from, ahhh, convincing the<BR>
locals to deal direct. Firstly, the classic level for exploitation to occour<BR>
is the wholesale level - the local corporate reps will often buy goods in<BR>
advance, before they are mined, harvested or made ("futures contracts").<BR>
Secondly, the local elite is probably in the pockets of offworld interests,<BR>
and may have made it illegal to export except through the sanctioned<BR>
Producers Co-operative or Marketing Board (who or owned by or have long-term<BR>
contracts with etc etc). Thirdly, the links at the other end also tend to be<BR>
owned - you may have fourteen dtons of prime Ochetate Toothfish, but will<BR>
any broker on Glisten deal with you ? Fourthly, the product often has to go<BR>
through a stage of refining, and it is at that level that the real profits<BR>
could be made. Fifthly, the locals could be employees rather than<BR>
owner-operators, and what you want to buy may not be theirs to lawfully<BR>
sell.<BR>
<BR>
There is another word for dealing direct, by the way. Smuggling.<BR>
<BR>
*************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:03:48 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Populations [Was Re: Cultural relativism] <BR>
<BR>
"DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > pnewman@gci.net wrote<BR>
> >>The statistically expected population of a world<BR>
> >>in traveller is half a million people. I do not consider half a<BR>
> >>million to be a large population.<BR>
<BR>
> The average population of a planet of the Imperium (based on pop rolls from<BR>
> LBB3) is 1,714,674,211 [1] or aproximately 2*10^9.<BR>
<BR>
I get this same figure for mean population assuming you<BR>
detail population to only 1 significant figure. If the<BR>
(book 2) population is detailed out to the last<BR>
figure [i.e. Planet Z has a population of 31,056,974,332]<BR>
then the mean will be 1,905,193,569. This is, of course,<BR>
also approximately 2*10^9.<BR>
<BR>
I was not talking about the mean population of a planet.<BR>
I was talking about the _mode_. Five is also the<BR>
median population as well.<BR>
<BR>
If you randomly examine Imperial planets generated by the <BR>
standard main world system [2d6-2] you will find that a population <BR>
of 5 (Hundreds of thousands) is the most common result. Of <BR>
any given 36 Traveller planets generated using the basic <BR>
Population generation system the most common result is 5.<BR>
<BR>
To further detail population you can generate a number<BR>
between 1 and 9, the median of this range is 5.<BR>
Therefore the most common population for a planet in<BR>
the Imperium (generated using the standard planetary<BR>
generation system) will be between 500,000 and 599,999.<BR>
<BR>
The fact that the mean is so high is irrelevant, we are<BR>
not talking about the fact that most characters will be<BR>
from Hi Pop planets we are talking about the fact that <BR>
Pop 5 is the most common Pop. If you travel to all<BR>
11,000+ planets in the Imperium you would expect to find<BR>
that almost 2,000 of them would be Pop 5. High Pop [Pop 9 <BR>
& A] worlds would be much less common.<BR>
<BR>
Most Traveller worlds simply will not exhibit the cultural <BR>
diversity found on the Earth today. Most Traveller worlds <BR>
are more likely to exhibit the diversity found in very small <BR>
countries, small US states, or large cities - simply because <BR>
they will typically have five to six hundred thousand people.<BR>
<BR>
It is just as likely (one chance in twelve) that a planet <BR>
will have a population of less than 100 people (Pop 0 or 1)<BR>
as a population of 1,000,000,000+ (Pop 9 or A).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2163<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2164<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
TML Land Grab<BR>
Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: JFK<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Land Grab Details<BR>
Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2163<BR>
re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: nearby stellar data<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
N class stars<BR>
RE: Jump Governors<BR>
Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Adventure Ideas (was the TML 2000 Landgrab) Long<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:11:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
A strange idea just hit me. No matter how much I like this idea it can't be<BR>
part of cannon. Anyone option on this is just as good as anyone else's. For<BR>
one reason it's against what Marc want's Traveller to be. It can have no<BR>
sexual content in it. And a charaters sexuality is sexual content. So we get<BR>
about as much vote as the Moot.<BR>
<BR>
THE ISSUE IS MOOT.... lol<BR>
<BR>
how come I always think of that old SNL skit when I say that word.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:19:41 EST<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/22/00 6:30:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
>  Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
>  <BR>
>  In a message dated 00-03-22 08:58:12 EST, you write:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  <<  If JFK<BR>
>   had an affair and it became public knowledge at the time it would have <BR>
been<BR>
>   the end of the government as we know it.  >><BR>
>  <BR>
>  I think that's exagerating. The Republicans were saying that about Kennedy <BR>
> at <BR>
>  the time -- certainly I _heard_ Republicans talking about how JFK was a <BR>
>  womanizer while he was in office. It just never saw print until after he <BR>
was <BR>
>  gone.<BR>
<BR>
I think everybody knew it (who was around), including the Whitehouse <BR>
reporters, however it was not one of the things they considered 'newsworthy' <BR>
at the time.<BR>
<BR>
I do know for sure that they were aware of other President's affairs, but <BR>
they had the taste not to waste paper on that sort of thing.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:21:26 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:51:42 -0800<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2159<BR>
><BR>
>LKW wrote:<BR>
>> << So why should the concept of performing a<BR>
>>  necessary but unpleasant act out of your duty to produce an heir be all<BR>
>>  that strange? >><BR>
>><BR>
>> Rumor has it that lesbianism wasn't specifically against the law in<BR>
>>Victorian<BR>
>> England because nobody had the courage to explain what it was to Queen<BR>
>> Victoria.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I find this difficult to believe for several reasons, but it's a nice story.<BR>
><BR>
>The version I'm familiar with has Victoria getting the explanation,<BR>
>but saying something to the effect of "don't be ridiculous - women<BR>
>don't do that."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Version I heard was can't, as they were just too pure to sink to<BR>
that level of depravity without some male assistance...<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:46:46 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
What format should the files be in? Txt .doc? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:04:11 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> Thought I'd take a couple of minutes off (hurridly) working on AR3 to<BR>
> post some shots of the ships I've fully completed so far.  All are<BR>
> Hiver ships. I'll also be doing two Droyne ships, but I haven't<BR>
> finished those yet.<BR>
<BR>
They look great. Some of the ships (the three at the bottom) seem to be<BR>
duplicates of pictures at the top. Is this intentional?<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:13:01 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
Colin said that there is a 24 hour period to challenge a claim for a system.<BR>
<BR>
How is this resolved?<BR>
<weg><BR>
Time for another Flame War, this time with Olympic style judges?<BR>
"6.2 on verbal form and spelling, 8.3 on creative use of parentage..."<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
p.s. When you grab a system that is an asteroid belt, is it really called<BR>
land?<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:14:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
Leonard opined:<BR>
> <BR>
> If anybody comes up with a decent means of *automatically* producing<BR>
> "welded" link mail in "sheets", they'll get rich. <BR>
> <BR>
Well, I've seen butcher's gloves and aprons made of stainless steel,<BR>
welded link mail. Someone must be making this by machine...<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:16:25 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<snip of massive fun><BR>
<BR>
LOL<BR>
<BR>
This would have been a clear kill if I had been drinking anything. Thank<BR>
you for getting this stuff in print. It is now a published part of<BR>
canon.<BR>
<BR>
*dramatic drumroll*<BR>
<BR>
Be *very* afraid...<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:23:23 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
I have now downloaded and unzipped the font file into the correct folder<BR>
(c:\windows\fonts), but it doesn't show up in M$ Word (and other<BR>
programs).<BR>
<BR>
This is strange, since I have handled several other fonts this way. What<BR>
am I doing wrong? What should the font appear as in the font menu?<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:57:06 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab - Canon conflict<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I think that will do nicely.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
> This may have been addressed, but I've a suggestion. Would it be possible<BR>
that<BR>
> the two descriptions deal with two different worlds in the same system?<BR>
That<BR>
> way you wouldn't have to invalidate either work.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:34:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> Just transplant Huxley's "Brave New World" to some planet, with<BR>
> some of the selection and conditioning techniques modified by what<BR>
> we've learned since the 1930s.<BR>
<BR>
Well, living in America, I've got to say that "Brave New World" strikes a<BR>
little bit too close to home for me. However, it would certainly work.<BR>
<BR>
> Technocrats, *real* Communists and Marxists rather than the thugs<BR>
> using them as a somoke screen that we've seen here on terra.<BR>
<BR>
No, that's not quite what I'm talking about. What I mean is the Technocracy<BR>
movement, which was largely a depression-era political movement. The idea<BR>
was, more or less, to let the scientists and technicians rule the world. It<BR>
achieved some degree of popularity before Roosevelt pulled the rug out from<BR>
under it with the New Deal. By about World War II they became a footnote.<BR>
<BR>
People will pay attention to all sorts of bizarre notions when they're<BR>
starving in the street. For what it's worth, the group has managed to stay<BR>
in existence and maintains a website, I think it's<BR>
http://www.technocracy.com, but it might be org. Reading some of the oldest<BR>
source material is pretty interesting. It's along the lines of<BR>
techno-fascism.<BR>
<BR>
> Not familiar with the example, but just read some of the extreme<BR>
> "lesbian spepratist" stuff for ways to do much the same. The two<BR>
> examples I gave aren't *nasty*, they are just viable *one sex*<BR>
> societies. And, at least in the case of Athos, they won't *want* to be<BR>
> "cured".<BR>
<BR>
Valerie Solanos is the archetypical extreme lesbian separatist archetype.<BR>
She had come to the conclusion that the male of the species was a mutant, a<BR>
complete abomination. In her estimation, America had, in the late 60s,<BR>
acquired the proper level of technological sophistication to make men<BR>
obselete. Some men would be kept around during the transition period, but<BR>
would gradually be killed off. SCUM is the "Society for Cutting Up Men", and<BR>
she advocates doing just that.<BR>
<BR>
She also shot Andy Warhol.<BR>
<BR>
> Personally, I think the "BDSM fantasy" type world could be fun.<BR>
> *Especially* if a PC tries to "liberate" someone's slave. As the<BR>
> Imperium found out long ago, in spite of the tag "slave", the<BR>
> relationship is entirely voluntary. Which is why they don't come down<BR>
> on the planet like a ton of bricks.<BR>
<BR>
It would certainly have entertainment value.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:35:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: JFK<BR>
<BR>
Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I think everybody knew it (who was around), including the Whitehouse<BR>
> reporters, however it was not one of the things they considered 'newsworthy'<BR>
> at the time.<BR>
> <BR>
> I do know for sure that they were aware of other President's affairs, but<BR>
> they had the taste not to waste paper on that sort of thing.<BR>
<BR>
That all changed with Watergate.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra<BR>
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:52:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> A strange idea just hit me. No matter how much I like this idea it can't<BR>
> be part of cannon.<BR>
<BR>
Why is that strange? Not all of us are shooting to have our ideas canonized,<BR>
you know.<BR>
<BR>
> Anyone option on this is just as good as anyone else's.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. And this is the way things should be. It doesn't mean that I'm not<BR>
willing to discuss and or argue the issue.<BR>
<BR>
> For one reason it's against what Marc want's Traveller to be. It can<BR>
> have no sexual content in it. And a charaters sexuality is sexual<BR>
> content.<BR>
<BR>
I understand Marc's concerns, and I agree with the theory behind them. I've,<BR>
personally, always read his objection as one to gratuitous sexual content.<BR>
I'm not sure that discussions of the morality of the Imperium with respect<BR>
to same-sex partnerships.<BR>
<BR>
As an example, if I were to say, "I have a few relatives who are openly<BR>
homosexual, and this makes some members of my family uncomfortable," or<BR>
something of the sort, I really don't think that a reasonable person would<BR>
say that I'm engaging in the production of prurient sexual content.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think anyone in the discussion is pushing to write "GURPS Traveller:<BR>
The Dynamics of Sexual Orientation in the Third Imperium," or "BITS: 101<BR>
Social-Constructs Concerning Sexuality", we're just fans discussing<BR>
something which is interesting.<BR>
<BR>
> So we get about as much vote as the Moot.<BR>
<BR>
I've resigned myself to that fact. I'm fine with it, really. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:23:39 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: Land Grab Details<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:07:48 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Landgrab details?<BR>
<BR>
Someone asked what a Landgrab Document should include...<BR>
<BR>
 -The "short-form" Library Data entry that players will get if they look up <BR>
the world. This should be no more than a few paragraphs, and often only one.<BR>
<end-snip><BR>
<BR>
***As in the BtC-ish paragraphs...<BR>
<BR>
<Snip><BR>
"Surviving the first 48 hours Onworld".<BR>
<end-snip><BR>
<BR>
***The TAS version might differ from the IISS version greatly. Also, don't<BR>
put alot of faith in the local tourism brochures...<BR>
<weg><BR>
<BR>
<snip> <BR>
 You can also choose to ignore me  ;>  but I would still consider the first <BR>
three documents easy to do and most useful...<BR>
GC<BR>
<end-snip><BR>
<BR>
***Who would ignore such useful advice?<BR>
It gives me a good place to start, now that I have an excuse to go buy First<BR>
In.<BR>
:)<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:25:19 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Need this answered FAST (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
SethKimmel wrote:<BR>
>This is correct. She jumped in and drained her tanks DRY. Why she did <BR>
>this is beyond me, since AHL's are J5. <BR>
<BR>
Couple of possiblities. Her task force may have already performed a<BR>
run-for-it jump to get to Kaguk. She was already under fire, she may<BR>
have taken some fuel hits - not enough to shatter her tanks, but enough<BR>
so she couldn't get to the rendezvous point.<BR>
<BR>
She may have actually *been* dry, but Strike Force Daring may have<BR>
had a Tanker on hand...or may have planned on transferring fuel from<BR>
_Retribution_ and other ships to get her up to Jump-1 fuel.<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel again:<BR>
>Since she didn't have time to refuel and jump outsystem (apparently the<BR>
>rest of her squadron had already refueled), she was elected/volunteered to <BR>
>stay and buy time for the rest of the squadron to race to the 100D limit<BR>
>and jump. She did her job.... I'd like to think her skipper, and especially<BR>
>her marines got posthumous medals for this<BR>
<BR>
Same here. I'd like to think that the last stand of _Bard Endeavor_ is<BR>
one of those hero tales they tell at Imperial Naval Academies, to <BR>
ensure that potential officers know what they might be called upon to<BR>
do as part of their duty.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:35:46 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2163<BR>
<BR>
snip><BR>
Face it, you may have the perfect man in your midst, with the perfect moral <BR>
background, and the right ideas, but hell never be elected in a western <BR>
style democracy, because he probably hasnt got the funds to finance his <BR>
campaign (in the US at least), and probably wont have party support <BR>
(everywhere).<BR>
<BR>
- - ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
<end snip><BR>
<BR>
So true. Either that or he has too much common sense and decency to put his<BR>
family and friends through the hell that is now called free press<BR>
reporting...<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
"You won't be going in with the troops. I can guarantee your safety..."<BR>
Lt Gorman USCM talking to Ripley<BR>
Aliens<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:43:57 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
Very nice. I like the unified style, I can see being able to look at an<BR>
unfamiliar vessel and say, "yup, looks like a Hiver ship".<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:54:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- --- Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I submit that "rule by the best" is indeed what<BR>
> happens in Western cultures.<BR>
> >No one is elected president of the United States<BR>
> who doesn't have a<BR>
> >substantial education and substantial funds.  Not<BR>
> only is it "rule by the<BR>
> >best" in a material sense, but also in a moral<BR>
> sense - US citizens want the<BR>
> >best man in more than one sense.  Elections are<BR>
> held with the purpose of<BR>
> >finding the best man for the job, but there are<BR>
> people who could never<BR>
> >seriously be considered candidates, and there are<BR>
> some who are obvious<BR>
> >candidates.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm, it usually strikes me as odd that the ones with<BR>
> the most money are <BR>
> supposed to be the best in a moral sense as well...<BR>
> Usually its the other <BR>
> way round.<BR>
> <BR>
> Face it, you may have the perfect man in your midst,<BR>
> with the perfect moral <BR>
> background, and the right ideas, but hell never be<BR>
> elected in a western <BR>
> style democracy, because he probably hasnt got the<BR>
> funds to finance his <BR>
> campaign (in the US at least), and probably wont<BR>
> have party support <BR>
<BR>
It's strange that the claim that having the best funds<BR>
equals being the best candidate ( or even just a good<BR>
one)  comes up while Dubya Bush, the intellectual and<BR>
moral juggernaut ( that's PC speak for " stupid acid <BR>
head")  is campaigning to be the next  Prez...........<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:04:58 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: nearby stellar data<BR>
<BR>
Hey, we're all heretics in our own way<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:10 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: nearby stellar data<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> You can find them at www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dstars.htm<BR>
>><BR>
>> Unfortunately the data do not contain motion for the stars so the data<BR>
are<BR>
>> totally unsuited for you 2300 zealots.  Or so i've been told :)<BR>
><BR>
>Well, that makes them even *worse for Milieu 0 and for the 1100-1200<BR>
>Imperial periods. :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:03:03 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>>         I agree that most vacc suits would not include a H2 system, but on<BR>
>>         a world with a substantial partial pressure of H2 I would certainly<BR>
>>         expect that it would be included.<BR>
>Sure. *If* there's a colony or some sort of base there. But players may<BR>
>not stop to think that they need a "special" vac suit or life support<BR>
>module. <BR>
<BR>
	If you will recall a few posts back, I wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
<BR>
	and Leonard replied:<BR>
<BR>
>The hydrogen molecule is *very* small. It'll *flow* thru seals that are<BR>
>merely "airtight".<BR>
<BR>
	All I have been trying to find out is whether or not H2 makes a good<BR>
	Insidious atmosphere.  If it is trivially easy to make a protective<BR>
	suit that is safe to use for many hours in such an atmosphere, then<BR>
	I would not call it Insidious.  Even this assumes that something else<BR>
	in the atmosphere makes wearing a simple O2 mask impractical.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:10:57 -0600<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com><BR>
Subject: N class stars<BR>
<BR>
Hi, all<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have an idea as to how<BR>
common/uncommon N-class stars are?<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:10:28 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump Governors<BR>
<BR>
LOCAD: run LD.EXE<BR>
<BR>
*** RUNNING LIBRARY DATA (Budget Edition)<BR>
*** ENTER KEYWORD SEARCH? jump governor<BR>
* Abstract: Jump Governor begins ...<BR>
<BR>
In  032-1106,  during   a   flight   from   Porozlo/Rhylanor   to<BR>
Jae Tellona/Rhylanor, a  passenger  aboard  the  liner  Trimkhana<BR>
Brilliance 2 declared himself to be  the  "Military  Governor  of<BR>
Jumpspace" and insisted on collecting a toll  fee  from  everyone<BR>
aboard.   After a short struggle the crew 'returned' him  to  his<BR>
'governorship' and he has not been heard  of  since.  Since  this<BR>
incident new bridge officers given the watch  shift  during  jump<BR>
are often instructed by their more senior collegues to "watch out<BR>
for the Jump Governor".<BR>
<BR>
* End of abstract<BR>
*** Alternative reference: "Starships, Technical bits of"<BR>
*** CONTINUE?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:20:42 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor was something of a socialist democrat, but the reason he caused<BR>
havoc is because instead of waiting for the reforms that Strephen was<BR>
already making towards increasing local authority (in particular, through<BR>
increasing the power of the Archdukes), he decided to attempt to force the<BR>
change overnight, and the Imperium rejected that.  Dulinor was just trying<BR>
to speed a process that Strephen had already started, and his impatience<BR>
caused the war.<BR>
   I read this with incredible incredulity...Dulinor was the George <BR>
Washington of his generation or perhaps, better example might be old man Tom <BR>
Paine.  Yes, he tore asunder the social contract which bound the nobility <BR>
but he was essentially a Liberal.  He never wanted to challenge the social <BR>
basis on which the nobility ruled that is private property (while he was not <BR>
wallowing in it like Margaret).<BR>
   The use of force was justified, Dulinor percieved himself as a <BR>
representive of the body politic (citizens or more accurately subjects as he <BR>
wanted to transform people into citizens).  Thus, he exercised legitimate <BR>
authority to overthrow a remote and impersonal government which no way <BR>
represented its subjects.  This is classic Locke.<BR>
  Why do Americans and others forget their revolutionary heritage?  And <BR>
assume all countries which have revolutions are Socialist?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:22:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com><BR>
Subject: Adventure Ideas (was the TML 2000 Landgrab) Long<BR>
<BR>
nick@corlecca.freeserve.co.uk wrote...<BR>
<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Gentle beings,<BR>
<BR>
Be it known that, barring other claimants, and then only for a short time<BR>
while their claims are..........           investigated ,  ....... I claim<BR>
the planet of Karin in the Five Sisters Subsector.  Although why anyone else<BR>
would want it I don't know.  I intend my main expansions to be of the 1110<BR>
pre FFW era.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Nick, not sure if you want any of this... but here goes.<BR>
<BR>
I have some notes on Karin from an old game, based on an adventure I ran.<BR>
It was after the FFW, but that can be changed.<BR>
<BR>
The key points are as follows:<BR>
<BR>
Early in the days of Zhodani civilization they sent out a few STL ships to<BR>
explore...  and some did not return.  (note sure if this is cannon... but<BR>
that never stopped me!!)<BR>
<BR>
One of these crashed on Karin.<BR>
<BR>
The survivors did the best they could, and survived for many generations<BR>
building a viable civilization.  They built their home in the plains, in a<BR>
huge valley, along a great river, and expanded in all directions.   Low in<BR>
technology, they expanded their powers of psionic, and discovered that some<BR>
of the elements/organisms can enhance their power.  They kept a running<BR>
record of all aspects of their lives in a great hall...<BR>
<BR>
A meteorite impact changed the climate enough that the civilization died...<BR>
<BR>
The remains are deep in what is now a jungle climate, buried under tons of<BR>
silt, moss, etc...  but the great hall still contains many secrets...<BR>
<BR>
Fast forward to the adventure...<BR>
<BR>
A Zhodani scientist has traced the ship's path to the five sisters, and is<BR>
interested in Karin.  With the assistance of Zhodani Intelligence, he goes<BR>
under cover, along with a team of professional agents for security.  He is<BR>
willing to hire locals to assist in the exploration logistics, etc...<BR>
However, his team of agents gets picked up in an random sweep before they<BR>
arrive on Karin... or an accident, whatever, but something stops them from<BR>
arriving.   He is forced to hire a group of PC's to assist in the<BR>
"exploration" of the dark continent in order to find a lost civilization.<BR>
He was not informed about KAIR...  need to know and all that.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
However, due to the imperial crack down on Karin, no high tech weapons or<BR>
vehicles are allowed on planet.<BR>
<BR>
They will have to walk in and out...  with what they can carry.<BR>
<BR>
Many of the locals see this as another example of imperial invasion of their<BR>
planet... and will try to stop it...<BR>
<BR>
INS is interested in the scientist...  and has a team doing a background<BR>
investigation that will take many weeks, but will expose him...<BR>
<BR>
The marines are suspicious of the PC group...  but are not informed by INS<BR>
of anything.<BR>
<BR>
Zhodani has a fleet intruder lurking to assist...  with troops...<BR>
<BR>
KAIR (Karin's Against Imperial Rule) is a front for Zhodani interest, but<BR>
the leader is a powerful psiconic interested in using any discovery to<BR>
further his own goals - total control of Karin - and will play both sides to<BR>
win, and due to the loss of professional agents, is not informed that this<BR>
is a Zhodani effort.<BR>
<BR>
The PC's (if they are typical) will bring a wide range of skills to the mix<BR>
that the scientist is looking for...<BR>
Security - some large beast are rumored to live in the jungles<BR>
Survey and Navigation - get in, find it, get out<BR>
Data collection and categorize findings - always important<BR>
Lugging - carry equipment, supplies<BR>
<BR>
The rest is up to you... just know that we had a great time.<BR>
<BR>
LIBRARY DATA ON KARIN<BR>
<BR>
	The group of planets known as the Five Sisters lends the name to this<BR>
remote subsector.  Separated from the contiguous Imperium it is only<BR>
accessible by a long communication route through the Sword Worlds.  Only<BR>
sparsely settled, the Five Sisters depends on the Imperial payroll to<BR>
support its economy.  The current political crises within the Imperium has<BR>
created some social strife in the area.  Karin has been a political disaster<BR>
for Duke Ilkhan, the Imperial governor.<BR>
<BR>
	Karin is a medium size planet with a very comfortable biosphere.  Orbiting<BR>
a small cool red star (M7V) at a distance of 15 million km, Karin is just<BR>
within the habitable zone. Surface temperature is an average 16.7 degrees<BR>
Celsius, very conformable for most life forms.  Surface gravity is slightly<BR>
heavy at 1.4 standard.  Rotation period is 23 standard hours, orbital period<BR>
a short 5.9 Karin days. (135.7 hours)  Standard atmospheric pressure and<BR>
composition.  73% of the surface is liquid water.  Native life is simple but<BR>
abundant.<BR>
<BR>
	The 41 million people who live on Karin is a strange diverse group of<BR>
individuals who like to be left alone and enjoy their space.  Slightly<BR>
xenophobic the TAS has listed the system as an amber zone.  Originally<BR>
colonized in 742, the population embraced the Psionic lifestyle introduced<BR>
by the Zhodani.  During the Psionic suppressions of 800 all developmental<BR>
activity was stopped.  The area has been under Naval administration ever<BR>
since.  No other ties with the Zhodani have been reported.  With the current<BR>
difficulties in the core extreme pressure has been applied to the isolated<BR>
areas outside the Imperium.  Karin is no exception and the amount of social<BR>
unrest has increased.  The largest well organized rebel group is the<BR>
K.A.I.R. or Karins Against Imperial Rule. Started in 1084 the group was an<BR>
authorized political organization.  KAIR's goals were to have all imperial<BR>
assets turned over to the people and be allowed home rule.  During Fifth<BR>
Frontier War the group was sympathetic to the Outworld coalition, staging<BR>
riots and protest.  In 1110 Duke Ilkhan issued a writ declaring the group<BR>
prohibited.  At that time the group went underground and started using<BR>
terror tactics.  Naval Intelligence was able to round up most of the leaders<BR>
and almost caused the total cessation of the organization.  However in the<BR>
past few years KAIR was able to make a sudden emergence, no reason given.<BR>
As imperial assets were stretched to the limit the group reorganized and has<BR>
been able to cause some difficulties for the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
	Karin's current law level is high, reflecting the amount of tension in the<BR>
system.  All shipping is checked before it is allowed to be unloaded.<BR>
Weapons are tightly controlled and no one is allowed to bring arms to the<BR>
surface.  The Imperium maintains a Marine Regiment and a CruRon to support<BR>
the local militia.<BR>
<BR>
NAVAL ELEMENTS ON KARIN<BR>
<BR>
Imperial CruRon 6:     5 CA-11;     100,000 tons<BR>
                                    4G, Jump 2<BR>
                                    Model/5fib<BR>
                                    P-Acc K<BR>
                                    Crew 2057 Troops 400<BR>
                                    50-ton craftx10<BR>
                                    100-ton craftx10<BR>
                                    2085 tons cargo<BR>
<BR>
                       4 ED-11;     10,000 tons<BR>
                                    4G, Jump 2<BR>
                                    Model/5fib<BR>
                                    P-Acc 7<BR>
                                    Crew 162 Troops 10<BR>
                                    50-ton craftx2<BR>
                                    204 tons cargo<BR>
<BR>
                       4 Scouts;    100 tons<BR>
                                    2G, Jump 2<BR>
                                    Model/1bis<BR>
                                    Crew 2<BR>
                                    2 tons cargo<BR>
<BR>
                       1 TF-11;     500,000 tons<BR>
                                    1G, Jump 2<BR>
                                    Model/5fib<BR>
                                    Crew 855<BR>
                                    1000-ton craftx5<BR>
                                    100-ton craftx5<BR>
                                    321,000 tons cargo<BR>
<BR>
 MARINE ELEMENTS ON KARIN<BR>
<BR>
1060th Marine Regiment:<BR>
                         Commander: Colonel Desqvi<BR>
                                XO: Lt. Colonel Kaza<BR>
                             Units: 3 Force command HQ<BR>
                                    9 Line Companies<BR>
                                    5 Meson Gun Batteries<BR>
                                    2 Lift Cavalry<BR>
                                    1 Grav Tank Company<BR>
                                    1 Commando Company<BR>
<BR>
	The Marine unit is equipped to TL-15 in most cases, however the equipment<BR>
is wearing out and replacements are few and far between.  Replacement troops<BR>
are not showing up and as marines transition out they are not replaced.  As<BR>
a result some units have been stripped so that others are at 100%. Over all<BR>
the Morale is very low.  The only ray of hope is that the new commander will<BR>
do a better job.  Col. Dagger, known as the "dagger of Efate," is both<BR>
feared and respected for his 3 year stand on Elate during the Fifth Frontier<BR>
War.  The time of his arrival is unknown.<BR>
<BR>
 K.A.I.R. (Karins Against Imperial Rule) ELEMENTS ON KARIN<BR>
<BR>
What the Imperium knows:<BR>
	Ruled by a man called Hajjaj, Descriptions vary about his looks, but all<BR>
agree- he seems kind, understanding, but always knows when you lie.<BR>
However, if caught by Hajjaj most people end up dead.<BR>
	Hajjaj heads a group called "the knowing."  Number of people in it is<BR>
unknown.  What is known is that each person is responsible for one aspect of<BR>
the organization. The Knowing is broken into smaller groups, called the<BR>
eyes, the hands, the heart, and the mind.  What each section is responsible<BR>
for is open to conjecture.  Number of estimated members vary from only a few<BR>
thousand to almost a million.<BR>
<BR>
Feel free to toss any or all of this, or use it, or e-mail me back with any<BR>
questions.<BR>
<BR>
Bob<BR>
<BR>
____________________________________<BR>
Robert Sanders<BR>
Vice President<BR>
Agency Management Group<BR>
Pittsburgh, PA<BR>
412.471.9595<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2164<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2165<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Karin/Five Sisters by Bob Sanders<BR>
OT? Somewhat.<BR>
Behind the Throne Review<BR>
Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Dragon-Con<BR>
RE: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
RE: Vilani Font?<BR>
RE: OT? Somewhat.<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
RE: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
Guess the Abbreviations (was RE: Landgrab details?)<BR>
RE: DragonCon<BR>
Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:24:26 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond writes:<BR>
>>From: Ian Ferguson [mailto:ian@vax2.concordia.ca]<BR>
>>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>>I hadn't realized that H2 could diffuse through solid metal,<BR>
>>>>what kind of pressure differential is required to make this <BR>
>>>>flow significant?<BR>
>>>None. What's required is a *concentration* differential. <BR>
>>>That is, what matters is that the *partial pressure* of<BR>
>>>hydrogen on each side of the partition be different.<BR>
>>Strictly speaking, a concentration differential by itself is<BR>
>>insufficient. It is the partial pressure, as I am (and, no<BR>
>>doubt, you are) aware.<BR>
>But surely, as Leonard states, Concentration differential and Partial<BR>
>Pressure differential are equivalent. After all, the partial pressure of<BR>
>a substance = the concentration of that substance in a given volume,<BR>
>doesn't it?<BR>
<BR>
	They are equivelent when the total pressure on either side of the<BR>
	gradient is the same.  For example, if I am wearing a vacc suit<BR>
	that contains air at 1.00 atm of pressure with 21% O2, there is a<BR>
	partial pressure of O2 (pO2) of 0.21 atm in the suit.  In a <BR>
	standard atmosphere (at 1.00 atm) and 100% O2, the pO2 is 1.00 atm.<BR>
	So, comparing concentrations (100% to 21%) or partial pressures<BR>
	(1.00 to 0.21 atm) is the same.  The tendency will be for a net<BR>
	diffusion of O2 into the suit (the suit should prevent this).  If,<BR>
	on the other hand, I am in a very thin atmosphere with a pressure<BR>
	of 0.15 atm and 100% O2, the pO2 is only 0.15 atm.  Dispite the<BR>
	concentration of O2 still being 100% on the outside and only 21%<BR>
	on the inside of the suit, the partial pressures dictate that there<BR>
	will be a tendency for O2 to diffuse out of the suit (0.15 inside<BR>
	vs 0.15 outside).<BR>
<BR>
	I only brought this issue up because Leonard was nit-picking on<BR>
	my original question.  I only want to know how much pressure<BR>
	(pressure and concentration, or partial pressure) would be<BR>
	required to make H2 diffuse into a vacc suit fast enough to make<BR>
	it a serious hazard.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:56:11 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
Boris Cibic wrote:<BR>
> I read this with incredible incredulity...Dulinor was the<BR>
> George Washington of his generation or perhaps, better example<BR>
> might be old man Tom Paine.  Yes, he tore asunder the social<BR>
> contract which bound the nobility but he was essentially a<BR>
> Liberal.<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor was not a  Liberal,  he  was  a  cowardly  and  impatient<BR>
incompetant!  He did not lead his domain  to  rebel  against  the<BR>
Imperium on the back of a popular uprising.  Nor did he  properly<BR>
execute the established means of  replacing  an  emperor  through<BR>
assassination.  What he did do was plunge the 11000  worlds  into<BR>
chaos by killing the emperor and leaving them with the problem of<BR>
succession to the  throne.  He  then  used  that  chaos  to  give<BR>
himself power in his own domain which  he  kept  through  careful<BR>
media manipulation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The use of force was justified, Dulinor percieved himself as a <BR>
> representive of the body politic (citizens or more accurately <BR>
> subjects as he wanted to transform people into citizens).<BR>
> Thus, he exercised legitimate authority to overthrow a remote<BR>
> and impersonal government which no way represented its<BR>
> subjects.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know *what* was going on in Dulinor's mind.  But its  not<BR>
like the Imperium was resisting change ... just reforming  at  an<BR>
evolutionary pace instead of a revolutionary  pace.  And  as  for<BR>
overthrowing a "remote and impersonal government which in no  way<BR>
represented its subjects", if his alternative was so much  better<BR>
how come he had a number of subsectors rebel against him?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:58:34 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: Karin/Five Sisters by Bob Sanders<BR>
<BR>
Bob,<BR>
Your data is headed to my Spinward Marches file.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for an excellent write up and adventure idea!<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:25:24 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: OT? Somewhat.<BR>
<BR>
As you may or may not know/care, I have a new Fantasy novel, Behind the<BR>
Throne, due out in May.<BR>
<BR>
One or two TML inhabitants are working on reviews, which should appear over<BR>
the next few weeks.<BR>
<BR>
The first (forwarded by me but written by someone else, honest!) is about to<BR>
hit your screen.<BR>
<BR>
Publisher can be found at www.highbridgepress.com<BR>
<BR>
I also have 1-3 ebook novels in the pipeline, to appear at various times.<BR>
More about that as it happens.<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV: There is a possibility of Traveller finding its way back into novels<BR>
or other media. I need good sales figures for my other to give the pitch<BR>
credibility.<BR>
<BR>
Thinnest OBTRAV on record? Yup.<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:25:47 -0000<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Behind the Throne Review<BR>
<BR>
Behind the Throne<BR>
By Martin J Dougherty<BR>
<BR>
The frailty of human nature has brought down many a royal house, but when<BR>
King Yantr Dar-Vian of Valdir falls prey to jealousy over an imagined affair<BR>
between his Queen Alleyn and his First Adviser Duke Alvin Riall of Derlle,<BR>
he sows the seeds of his own destruction.<BR>
<BR>
The treacherous Baron Dev Terrik skillfully maneuvers the King into sending<BR>
Duke Riall to the south to drive the Tribes from their lands, which he had<BR>
guaranteed them under a treaty negotiated by Riall on his behalf.<BR>
<BR>
Riall, a staunch believer in the sanctity of treaties, is loath to join<BR>
battle with the Tribes, but he is a loyal subject, sworn to obey his Kings<BR>
instructions, and loyalty to the King is more important to him than his own<BR>
personal integrity.  The invasion starts a campaign that ignites the south<BR>
and unites the Tribes with the Kingdom of Kofnir, which threatens the very<BR>
existence of Valdir.<BR>
<BR>
Defeated by the combined forces of the Tribes and King Ariesh of Kofnir,<BR>
Riall is disgraced and banished from Valdir.  He establishes his own small<BR>
realm in the south, making his peace with Ariesh and his son, Prince Irian.<BR>
<BR>
Meanwhile Yantr stumbles from disaster to disaster in Valdir, skillfully<BR>
manipulated by the treacherous Terrik along a path that he hopes will end in<BR>
the loss of the throne and the coronation of a new King, Terrik of Harvside.<BR>
<BR>
The battles that rage through 'Behind the Throne' are skillfully described<BR>
by author Martin J Dougherty as he weaves a sage of deceit, treachery and<BR>
murder around the rival families who have real or imaginary claims to the<BR>
throne of Valdir.<BR>
<BR>
There are many moments of tension as the combatants vie for supremacy, but<BR>
there are also poignant passages as Duke Riall wrestles with his conscience<BR>
and his love for the two women who have enslaved his heart.<BR>
<BR>
This is not a romance story, but readers will hope Riall can surmount his<BR>
difficulties and find his true love - but who that will be is kept hidden<BR>
until the last few pages when the final conflict between Riall and Terrik<BR>
rages through the castle at Valdir.<BR>
<BR>
While this is the main theme, there are several subplots that rise and reach<BR>
conclusion around the main plot, keeping the reader's interest until the<BR>
end.<BR>
<BR>
Dougherty adopts a clean, sharp style that drags the reader into the story,<BR>
and holds him there from start to finish.  As an example, read what he says<BR>
during the final battle -<BR>
<BR>
 Who has keys? Name them all, leaving out the ones in this room, Riall<BR>
said harshly.<BR>
 That leaves Admiral Tendrel, Earl Kilner....<BR>
 And Terrik. Whose grandfather tried for the throne and failed. Whose tomb<BR>
is empty. Whose sword is missing. He's out there somewhere. So is Tomas<BR>
Nelvinssen, and he won't be happy with just a pardon.<BR>
 Yantr froze, trying to think. He glanced at Varalis, who sat quietly,<BR>
waiting for orders. He looked at Waraff, who winked slowly.<BR>
 Yantr turned back to Riall. How sure are you?<BR>
 Sure enough. Today would be an opportunity not to be missed. Of course I<BR>
may be wrong....<BR>
<BR>
I have no hesitation in recommending 'Behind the Throne' (ISBN<BR>
0-9678832-0-2) to any reader who enjoys a rollicking adventure liberally<BR>
sprinkled with intrigue and battles.<BR>
<BR>
The book is published by Highbridge Press, and is due for release in May<BR>
2000.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Reviewed by:  Alan M Brooker, PO Box 236, Dargaville, New Zealand<BR>
(ambrook@igrin.co.nz)<BR>
<BR>
Author of - Tharne's Quest (ISBN 1-58697-037-2), The Mean Green Machine<BR>
(ISBN 1-1-877162-06-X) Dreams of Torment (ISBN 0-7388-0111-9), The Battle<BR>
for Barnstable (ISBN 0-7388-0109-7), Dreams of Charni (ISBN 0-7388-0105-4)<BR>
Bad Blood (ISBN 0-7388-0107-0)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:07:34 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
The responses I'm seeing, and the directions this thread is taking have <BR>
made it clear to me that I didn't develop my primary point well at all, so I'll <BR>
take another try at it from the beginning.<BR>
<BR>
I would like to make it clear that I am not taking any particular culture<BR>
to task, and I am not attempting to defend anyone else's attempt to <BR>
paint their own culture as Wonderful and everyone else's as Crap.<BR>
Again, this is something I apparently did not communicate with any <BR>
effectiveness, leading people to interpret my stance as something it is not. <BR>
While I accept the blame for incomplete and ineffective communication, I<BR>
do *not* appreciate the moral overtones people have tacked on to<BR>
my statements so as to more effectively paint me as some sort of bigot. <BR>
I have a more than sufficient supply of prejudices already, thank you.<BR>
<BR>
The purpose of my initial post was to point out that while an unusual<BR>
culture held by a couple hundred people on an isolated Pacific island<BR>
might be interesting, such a culture should not be used - at least not<BR>
without a lot of thought -  as a basis for a planet of millions. Growing the <BR>
culture that much would require massive change, and chances are the <BR>
changes to the culture in the process would make it unrecognizable.<BR>
<BR>
The examples presented - the culture where paranoia was a virtue,<BR>
and the one where megalomania was a heroic ideal - *may* be <BR>
dysfunctional *solely* in terms of their ability to manage the social<BR>
interactions of an entire Traveller-setting planet. They may be effective<BR>
at managing the affairs of a couple small tribes, I'm wondering if they'd<BR>
make sense in context of a million people or so.<BR>
<BR>
So yes, being strongly paranoid may be "normal" in the context of<BR>
a certain small village culture. Cultural Relativism, in the general<BR>
sense of the term, tries to label every cultural norm as equivalent to every <BR>
other culture's norms, I'm saying that certain cultural norms will be more <BR>
likely to work on large scales than others. Under the stresses of covering<BR>
a small group, the culture may persist, the stresses of covering a larger <BR>
group may bring out inconsistencies and fatal flaws in that culture and <BR>
shatter it.<BR>
<BR>
If a culture has only ever been tried on a small scale, then there is<BR>
little evidence that it scales upwards. Certain other Earth cultures<BR>
(Western, Indian, Asian, and yes, I know, have fun with nitpicking about<BR>
how many thousands of cultures there are in each now) have been tried<BR>
on larger scales, and IMO are more likely models for the kinds of features<BR>
we'll see in planetary cultures than a small string of fishing villages or<BR>
a group in the alt.sex heirarchy on UseNet.<BR>
<BR>
This isn't to say there won't be changes we don't see coming, and this<BR>
isn't to say every Startown should be a choice between New York City,<BR>
Shanghai or Calcutta. It's just a call to think a bit before trying to come<BR>
up with the Planet of the BDSM Culture, or some other attempt to<BR>
take a fringe or a village and make it into a planet.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:29:13 -0500<BR>
From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon-Con<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>  So, is anyone going to DragonCon in Atlanta this year?<BR>
>   >><BR>
><BR>
> I'll be there as a VIP guest. Stevee Jackson has been invited to attend,<BR>
but<BR>
> hasn't decided yet.<BR>
><BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
I guess they finally got on the ball then. I asked him about it in Brubeks<BR>
one Saturday afternoon and he said they hadn't invited any of you guys yet.<BR>
I think it was about 6 weeks ago, maybe less.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:24:03 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
That's what I was trying to do, while keeping things interesting.  For<BR>
example:  How the hell do you apply radical stealth to a BOX?!?!  So my<BR>
handwave was (generally) that if the craft was streamlined or stealthed,<BR>
then it tended to have more sloping sides and smoothly rounded corners.<BR>
Unstreamlined and / or not stealth and the edges are sharp.  Generally<BR>
speaking.  As in all things, there are one or two exceptions ;)<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, thanks!  19 ships in two weeks tends to kick your a$$, and I<BR>
appreciate the comments.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Walter Smith<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 6:44 AM<BR>
> To: 'TML'<BR>
> Subject: re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Very nice. I like the unified style, I can see being able to look at an<BR>
> unfamiliar vessel and say, "yup, looks like a Hiver ship".<BR>
><BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:29:27 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
Don't know 'bout anyone else, but I always do the file / install new font<BR>
thing.  It'll show up as Bilanidin Bold.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:23 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I have now downloaded and unzipped the font file into the correct folder<BR>
> (c:\windows\fonts), but it doesn't show up in M$ Word (and other<BR>
> programs).<BR>
><BR>
> This is strange, since I have handled several other fonts this way. What<BR>
> am I doing wrong? What should the font appear as in the font menu?<BR>
><BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:29:18 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT? Somewhat.<BR>
<BR>
We're behind you though :)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:25 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: OT? Somewhat.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> As you may or may not know/care, I have a new Fantasy novel, Behind the<BR>
> Throne, due out in May.<BR>
> <BR>
> One or two TML inhabitants are working on reviews, which should <BR>
> appear over<BR>
> the next few weeks.<BR>
> <BR>
> The first (forwarded by me but written by someone else, honest!) <BR>
> is about to<BR>
> hit your screen.<BR>
> <BR>
> Publisher can be found at www.highbridgepress.com<BR>
> <BR>
> I also have 1-3 ebook novels in the pipeline, to appear at various times.<BR>
> More about that as it happens.<BR>
> <BR>
> OBTRAV: There is a possibility of Traveller finding its way back <BR>
> into novels<BR>
> or other media. I need good sales figures for my other to give the pitch<BR>
> credibility.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thinnest OBTRAV on record? Yup.<BR>
> <BR>
> MJD<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:43:42 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@mpgn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'm a pretty busy guy, but we got talking about it at work today and <BR>
I think I'm going to grab . . .<BR>
<BR>
Milagro/District 268<BR>
<BR>
After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
<BR>
Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with a fraction <BR>
of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
Yer list mom.<BR>
<BR>
At 07:37 AM 3/22/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I had claimed Spirelle/Lunion<BR>
><BR>
>Steve Charlton<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Taken so far are?<BR>
><BR>
>Heya/Regina                      Doug Berry<BR>
>Ylaven/Lanth                     Paul Campbell<BR>
>Mongo/Jewell                   Glenn Goffin<BR>
>Esalin/Jewell                      Luther Martin<BR>
>Wonstar/Five Sisters     Micheal Houghton<BR>
>Rorise/Mora                      AB (maybe?)<BR>
>Aster/Glisten                      AB<BR>
>L'oeil d'Dieu                       Robert O'Connor<BR>
>Yori/Regina                        Peter Trevor<BR>
>Rhylanlor/Rhylanlor      Volker Greimann<BR>
>Tavonni/Vilis                      David Jaques-Watson<BR>
><BR>
>Is this list up somewhere? Am I missing anyone? I added David's<BR>
>claim for<BR>
>Tavonni as I saw no earlier claim, and AB's tentative claim for<BR>
>Rorise.(BZA)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:36:32 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 13:51 22.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 11:19 AM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
>>Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
>>machen?  <BR>
><BR>
>Alle Hagel die Pinguin Herr!<BR>
<BR>
Could someone translate this for me?<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
SCNR<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:31:47 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 13:32 22.03.00 -0900, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
>> Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
>> machen?  <BR>
<BR>
As someone else wrote: That is really _bad_ German. BTW: Why do so many<BR>
peple believe that neo-Nazis would use German as a language? Because<BR>
Germans were once both stupid and desperate enough to belive the<BR>
predecessors of those guys?<BR>
<BR>
>Un royaume de onze cent dix-sept ans, non . <BR>
<BR>
Non, pas onze cent dix-sept ans. Tausendjaehriges Reich, il a ecrit,<BR>
nest-ce pas?<BR>
<BR>
>Quant au <BR>
>problme de Droyne, comme Retief a dit: " Aucune population, <BR>
>aucun malaise populaire. " Non? <BR>
<BR>
Non. Grand-Pere a une medicine pur toutes les malaises populaires des Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
>Parlez en Anglais sur le TML s'il vous plat, je ne parlent <BR>
>pas la langue Allemande.<BR>
<BR>
Pourquoi? Tu (sic!) a compris le content.<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
If you want people to use English, why don't you write that in... say,<BR>
English?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:34:28 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
<bowing gracefully, and with much solemnity>  That a word? ;)<BR>
Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:16 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <snip of massive fun><BR>
> <BR>
> LOL<BR>
> <BR>
> This would have been a clear kill if I had been drinking anything. Thank<BR>
> you for getting this stuff in print. It is now a published part of<BR>
> canon.<BR>
> <BR>
> *dramatic drumroll*<BR>
> <BR>
> Be *very* afraid...<BR>
> <BR>
> :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:34:28 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
WHOOPS!  How'd *that* happen?  Bloody M$ FrontPage....<BR>
<BR>
I'll fix that at some point today so the download eases a bit ;)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Jens!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:04 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> > Thought I'd take a couple of minutes off (hurridly) working on AR3 to<BR>
> > post some shots of the ships I've fully completed so far.  All are<BR>
> > Hiver ships. I'll also be doing two Droyne ships, but I haven't<BR>
> > finished those yet.<BR>
> <BR>
> They look great. Some of the ships (the three at the bottom) seem to be<BR>
> duplicates of pictures at the top. Is this intentional?<BR>
> <BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:39:29 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
Oooo, good idea!  If it's TOO expensive, then maybe we can re-write them<BR>
enough, and use 3I characters for it?  Don't know how close to the legal<BR>
issues that is :\<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
> Erickson<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:28 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> >>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:42:10 PST<BR>
> >>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> >>Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>In mail you write:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>I'm also reminded of the comment in one of the classic "Willie and<BR>
> >>Joe"(?) cartoons by Bill Maudlin. The two of them are looking at a tank<BR>
> >>and one of them says something along the lines of "a foxhole that calls<BR>
> >>that much attention to itself ain't gonna last long..."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Willie says, "I'd rather dig. A moving foxhole attracts the eye."<BR>
><BR>
> That's the one!<BR>
><BR>
> You know, if permission to reproduce isn't too expensive, that cartoon<BR>
> and a few others would be rather appropriate as "sidebars" in the<BR>
> ground forces stuff...<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:52:16 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
<BR>
At 16:25 23.03.00 -0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>OBTRAV: There is a possibility of Traveller finding its way back into novels<BR>
>or other media. I need good sales figures for my other to give the pitch<BR>
>credibility.<BR>
<BR>
"Back into novels"? Were there any novels published? If yes: Where the hell<BR>
can I get them!<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:44:37 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Guess the Abbreviations (was RE: Landgrab details?)<BR>
<BR>
> > IYTU, YMMV, DSLIMHaBtF, DBTWP, and BAIBWAR3<BR>
> > <BR>
> > And if you can figure all of those out, I'll do a custom piece <BR>
> for you <time<BR>
> > permitting of course>   ;)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Jesse<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> IYTU, 		In Your Traveller Universe<BR>
<BR>
No brainer, everyone knows this one.<BR>
<BR>
> YMMV, 		Your Milage May Vary<BR>
<BR>
Same here.<BR>
<BR>
> DSLIMHaBtF,     Doesn't Seem Like I'll Manage Having a Break till Friday<BR>
<BR>
Not even CLOSE, but a good one!  Wish I'd thought of it ;)<BR>
<BR>
> DBTWP, 		Due Basically To Work Pressure<BR>
<BR>
Nope, not close again.  Think [fnord]  Whoops, the sensors got it >;)<BR>
<BR>
> BAIBWAR3,	Being As I'm Busy With Alien Races 3<BR>
<BR>
*Pretty* close, in wording and in train of thought.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> How close am I?<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Paul Campbell<BR>
> kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Keep tryin',<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:59:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
At 03:19 PM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>I'm going to try to make it out from California.<BR>
<BR>
When is it? I'd like to try and make out.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:56:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 08:42 PM 3/22/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The original notion was that Strephon was actually killed, and the "real <BR>
>Strephon" was as to Strephon as Pugachev was to Tsar Peter III.<BR>
><BR>
>We changed our minds in mid-stream, and this is one of the rough bits.<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad you did. It made Strephon a far more tragic character.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2166</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/23/00 10:36:47 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2166<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: DragonCon<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
RE: DragonCon<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
RE: Vilani Font?<BR>
Re:Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Land Grab Details<BR>
Re: Landgrab in hyperwarp<BR>
Re: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
Re: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Re: Traveller Novels?<BR>
Re: TML Land Grab<BR>
Re: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
RE: DragonCon<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Clone<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:07:02 -0500<BR>
From: "James Earl" <jearl@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
June 29-July 2 at the Hyatt Regency in Atlanta<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:59 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 03:19 PM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >I'm going to try to make it out from California.<BR>
> <BR>
> When is it? I'd like to try and make out.<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:47:17 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>2.   OLD SYSTEM PAPERS<BR>
><BR>
>What of the RICE Papers, the papers done for Reformation Coalition worlds, and<BR>
>the papers done for the Marches post-Rebellion/pre-Virus? Can we try to avoid<BR>
>these worlds that have already been "done" or ask the original authors to<BR>
>regress the worlds to 1120?<BR>
><BR>
>Examples include Emerald, Jewell, Ruby, Persephone, etc etc. I could try<BR>
>cobbling together a list, maybe Jeff Zeitlin can fill in any holes I leave?<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, the data neednt be regressed, it can be found in MTs Imperial <BR>
Encyclopedia.<BR>
The MT data should also be right for 4 yrs. later.<BR>
<BR>
For those of you who havent got that book and want to know the stats for <BR>
their world,<BR>
e-mail me privately...<BR>
<BR>
Damn, ive just seen that Chris Griffen has already done an excellent <BR>
write-up of Rhylanor... Chris, would it be all right if i used that as a basis?<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:20:30 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Don't know 'bout anyone else, but I always do the file / install new<BR>
> font thing.  It'll show up as Bilanidin Bold.<BR>
<BR>
That explains it. I already had a (corrupt) version of the font<BR>
installed, so the new one couldn't be entered. Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:10:01 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
I really hope you ment to say "make IT out", 'cause you're definately not my<BR>
type.  For one thing your not female :)<BR>
<BR>
http://www.dragoncon.org/<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
> Berry<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:00 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: DragonCon<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> At 03:19 PM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >I'm going to try to make it out from California.<BR>
><BR>
> When is it? I'd like to try and make out.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:33:12 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Are they any relation to NA possum?  They also are reputed to be edible,<BR>
though gamy.<BR>
<BR>
However, I'd have a problem eating fellow Lodge brothers. Carpe Ductum!<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> How about possum stew? By possum I mean the Aussie kind. IME it tastes<BR>
> Ok, but you really don't want to be around while it's being cooked -<BR>
> they don not smell nice alive or dead.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:27:04 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
Glad to help :)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:21 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Vilani Font?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Don't know 'bout anyone else, but I always do the file / install new<BR>
> > font thing.  It'll show up as Bilanidin Bold.<BR>
> <BR>
> That explains it. I already had a (corrupt) version of the font<BR>
> installed, so the new one couldn't be entered. Thank you.<BR>
> <BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:06:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re:Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
At 03:47 PM 3/22/2000 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I wish.... As far as I am able to tell a substantial<BR>
>(majority?) portion of contemporary US monosexual population<BR>
>(both heterosexuals and homosexuals) interprets an American<BR>
>males declaration of his bisexuality to mean that he is gay<BR>
>and in denial about it.<BR>
<BR>
I have a button that reads: "Bisexual: Everybody Thinks I'm a Pervert."<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I also have one that reads: "My sex life meets Federal<BR>
Equal-Opportunity Guidlines."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:21:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
<BR>
At 10:39 AM 3/23/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>Or - why officers kept their swords when muskets dominated the battlefield.<BR>
><BR>
>N'kay, here it goes. Muskets had crappy range in 1700's (me thinks) about<BR>
>80m effective.<BR>
<BR>
80m is being *very* generous. They would line up barely two dozen feet from<BR>
each other. Take that famous Bunker Hill order "don't shoot until you see<BR>
the whites of their eyes"?  Try it. See how close you can get to somebody<BR>
before you can discern the whites of their eyes. <BR>
<BR>
>Naturally this be scary - v-e-e-e-e-e-r-r-r-y scary. Consequently, given the<BR>
>nature of the bulk of the troops - aka scum - most wanted to leg it before<BR>
>this point. This is where Mr Officer with sword comes in. Apparently the<BR>
>deal was to run through any man who looked a tad askance at the prospect of<BR>
>conjoined musket volleys and thus preserve discipline where it was needed<BR>
>most - to hold the line to get some shooting in. Thus - okay you have a good<BR>
>chance of some wounds/death in sharing volleys but a certain one if you<BR>
>considered legging it.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, the famous "officers killing their own men" legend. This crops up in<BR>
every era, in every army.<BR>
<BR>
With a very few exceptions, armies do not kill their own troops on the<BR>
battlefield (intentionaly, that is.) Any army that began this practise<BR>
would soon have lots of dead officers and troops heading over the hill.<BR>
<BR>
Napoleonic armies were actually well trained and disciplined, and compared<BR>
to the average peasant had a very good life. Regular meals that included<BR>
meat and lots of free booze, plus the right to loot towns along your line<BR>
of march!<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Oh yeah - barracks were partially the result of roll call worries - better<BR>
>to lock 'em in together instead of letting 'em go home.<BR>
<BR>
It's just more conveinent to keep the soldiers in one place. Also, the<BR>
communal living helps forge the soldiers into a unit.<BR>
><BR>
>Ob Trav; The difference in tech leaves means the possibility of watching<BR>
>'living history'. Why write about tech 6 nuclear conflict when you can watch<BR>
>it live? Or tech 3 pikes and co having a rumble - I'd see imperial tri-d<BR>
>crews having a bit of a film (via sats or high altitude bots) of primitive<BR>
>war in action. Hey look - an adventure seed!<BR>
<BR>
I imagine that many smaller, lo-tech worlds get a lot of income for arms<BR>
races by selling the coverage rights to various entertainment companies. No<BR>
nukes though, Imperial Rules of War violation.<BR>
<BR>
"OK, boys, tonight we're assaulting Mt. Formidible. Put on these new<BR>
uniforms, and remember, don't look at the cameras."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:22:06<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 05:36 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Alle Hagel die Pinguin Herr!<BR>
><BR>
>Could someone translate this for me?<BR>
<BR>
All Hail the Penguin Lords<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:39:20 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
At 19:44 22.03.00 +0100, Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I've just stumbled across another program for showing 3D star maps at:	<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7472/<BR>
<BR>
I#Ve finally managed to get that program onto my HDD in working condition.<BR>
It is good, though not as practical as CHVIEW, I'd say. <BR>
<BR>
The Traveller Map presented thereseems to cover a 3D version of half of the<BR>
SM, Deneb, Corridor, Reft and Gushemege sectors, plus perhaps a few Hierate<BR>
worlds.<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad that we've got a good in-universe explanation for the 2D maps,<BR>
otherwise I would have been driven into desparation by that map... 3D just<BR>
doesn't seem to fit.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:42:37 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
> From: Boris Cibic [mailto:kafka47@hotmail.com]<BR>
<BR>
>   Why do Americans and others forget their revolutionary <BR>
> heritage?  And <BR>
> assume all countries which have revolutions are Socialist?<BR>
<BR>
Revolutions are usually unpopular because they threaten the power of those who hold it.<BR>
<BR>
The American Revolution is vary unpopular in the US today because it involved the dismantling of the current government by private citizens who owned guns.<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:53:46 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Land Grab Details<BR>
<BR>
<Snip><BR>
"Surviving the first 48 hours Onworld".<BR>
<end-snip><BR>
<BR>
***The TAS version might differ from the IISS version greatly. Also, don't<BR>
put alot of faith in the local tourism brochures...<BR>
<weg><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well yes. The (rather hidden) point here was that a Scout sitting at a <BR>
Library terminal will find data sources that an ordinary PC (or NPC) wouldn't <BR>
look at twice (or even once). For example, take you average one or two <BR>
keyword internet search. Even a fairly obscure word will drag up a couple <BR>
dozen results. The average person scrolls the list looking for "TAS Library <BR>
Data: Glisten" while the Scout notes the "Barhopper's Guide to Glisten <BR>
Startown," the Glisten chapter from "A Traveller's Guide to Startown Legal <BR>
Procedures," and the opera schedule at the Gliss Metro as useful sources.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:55:50<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab in hyperwarp<BR>
<BR>
At 06:02 PM 3/22/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I have made six updates in the last five hours.  Get yours before the choice<BR>
>world are gone!  http://www.downport.com/landgrab<BR>
<BR>
SPLORT! 5.0<BR>
<BR>
You.. you.. YOU.. ROTFLMAO!!!!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,<BR>
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:00:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
<BR>
> At 16:25 23.03.00 -0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >OBTRAV: There is a possibility of Traveller finding its way back into novels<BR>
> >or other media. I need good sales figures for my other to give the pitch<BR>
> >credibility.<BR>
> <BR>
> "Back into novels"? Were there any novels published? If yes: Where the hell<BR>
> can I get them!<BR>
> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Well, there were two TNE Novels published, and there was a third about ready<BR>
when GDW went under.  As for finding them, good luck.  <BR>
<BR>
For that matter, I know I've got them and I'd need good luck to finding <BR>
them :^)<BR>
<BR>
I think there was also a T4 related novel, and a couple books that were<BR>
based on classic Traveller (but not listed as Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:08:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
Moody, Danny M. writes:<BR>
> > From: Boris Cibic [mailto:kafka47@hotmail.com]<BR>
> <BR>
> >   Why do Americans and others forget their revolutionary <BR>
> > heritage?  And <BR>
> > assume all countries which have revolutions are Socialist?<BR>
<BR>
They don't.  Its just that if its a 'good' revolution we don't worry about it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Revolutions are usually unpopular because they threaten the power of those<BR>
> who hold it. <BR>
<BR>
Revolutions are usually a horrible mess (and deservedly unpopular) unless <BR>
there exists a credible authority to take control of the remains.  Any <BR>
revolution which overthrows the current government without having something<BR>
ready to take control, which has credibility with the governed people, is<BR>
going to result in chaos (look at the french revolution).<BR>
> <BR>
> The American Revolution is vary unpopular in the US today because it<BR>
> involved the dismantling of the current government by private citizens who owned guns. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, it didn't.  It involved the pre-existing governments of the 13<BR>
colonies separating themselves from the higher authority of Britain.  It <BR>
also involved armies and all the other trappings of state vs state conflict.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:07:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Novels?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> At 16:25 23.03.00 -0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >OBTRAV: There is a possibility of Traveller finding<BR>
> its way back into novels<BR>
> >or other media. I need good sales figures for my<BR>
> other to give the pitch<BR>
> >credibility.<BR>
> <BR>
> "Back into novels"? Were there any novels published?<BR>
> If yes: Where the hell<BR>
> can I get them!<BR>
<BR>
There were 2 or 3 TNE novels, published, I think,<BR>
around 1993.<BR>
<BR>
They are constantly for sale on E-bay, for a rather<BR>
moderate price. ( however, since you are living in<BR>
Europe, the mailing cost will triple it, at least).<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:09:00<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Land Grab<BR>
<BR>
At 08:13 AM 3/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Colin said that there is a 24 hour period to challenge a claim for a system.<BR>
><BR>
>How is this resolved?<BR>
<BR>
Penguins at twenty paces.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if someone claimed Fred's World, and somebody else piped up with<BR>
"but I've got twenty pages of notes and a full world map already!" I would<BR>
expect the first claimant to retire gracefully.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
   http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com<BR>
<BR>
"A mrgs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:13:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Translation key for Bilandin (Was: 4 Horsemen?)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:59 PM 3/22/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Speaking of Bilandin, where oh where has it gone. Web searches<BR>
>reveal dead links to Doug's site.<BR>
<BR>
eek! I took that down a while ago due to space problems.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:12:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
At 05:35 PM 3/23/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>"Ahh, don't want a pickle / I just wanna ride mah motor-sickle..."<BR>
><BR>
><thwap!><BR>
<BR>
"I've been singing this song for twenty minutes. I can sing for another<BR>
twenty. I'm not proud...<BR>
<BR>
..or tired."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:19:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
At 03:44 PM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>While I haven't gotten my comp copies of the book yet (Loren, they ship out<BR>
>yet???) and can't comment on page 27 yet, I CAN tell you whats on the<BR>
>shipping container on the cover.....<BR>
<BR>
LOL! Jesse's the man!<BR>
<BR>
>p.s.  Next time I'm getting Gridlore Technologies and maybe a couple of<BR>
>others on there ;)<BR>
<BR>
What I'd love is for one illustration in Ground Forces to have A-7-1 and<BR>
9-84 in it somewhere. That's my Infantry OSUT company and the month I<BR>
entered the Army.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:20:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: DragonCon<BR>
<BR>
At 09:10 AM 3/23/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>I really hope you ment to say "make IT out", 'cause you're definately not my<BR>
>type.  For one thing your not female :)<BR>
<BR>
Details, details...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:25:19 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:)<BR>
> If you are using "many" of the old j4 nodes, then you *aren't* running<BR>
> a J6 "net"! <BR>
> <BR>
> You may be sending *non* J6 ships from the new J6 nodes to the old J4<BR>
> nodes, but most of the J4 nodes are now *branches* rather than part of<BR>
> the "main trunk". That means they get info *later* that the nodes on<BR>
> the trunk.<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to cop out and say that the exact design of the J6 net is<BR>
going to depend on individual worlds' populations, tech levels, <BR>
starports, and roles in the existing J4 net, handwave away the <BR>
details, and say that some worlds will get *more* important <BR>
and some will get *less*, but...<BR>
<BR>
> > I'm pretty sure it's canonical that the Imperial Xboat network uses<BR>
> > Scout/Couriers to serve leaf nodes 1 and 2 parsecs off of the <BR>
> > main routes, yes? <BR>
> <BR>
> And those nodes therefor get news *later* than nodes on the mainline.<BR>
> Which makes them lose out on various opportunities.<BR>
<BR>
This depends on the exact way that Xboat routes fan out, but it <BR>
needn't cause leaf nodes to get serviced substantially later. <BR>
An Xboat can't go 2 parsecs any faster than a Scout/Courier can.<BR>
<BR>
> > And for most configurations of systems that are 7 or 8 parsecs <BR>
> > apart, there's no difference between a J-4 courier and a J-6 <BR>
> > courier - it's two weeks either way. <BR>
> <BR>
> > Once you're talking about *sectors* of distance, then you're getting <BR>
> > into *months* of intelligence advantage, and that's clearly valuable <BR>
> > -- look, I'm using asterisks again!<BR>
> <BR>
> It's not all *that* valuable except in wartime, since *everyone* get<BR>
> the news faster. <BR>
<BR>
Everyone who pays the premium for the new service, that is (the way<BR>
I'm looking at it, anyway).<BR>
<BR>
> > Additionally, since (I thought we were) talking about a privately <BR>
> > owned corporate network supplementing the existing Imperial J-4 <BR>
> > network, what's to hate? Even if ignored by any given J-6 net, a <BR>
> > world has the same connectivity it always did.<BR>
> <BR>
> This is like saying that since the old highway still runs through town,<BR>
> you don't need to worry abou the fact that the new Interstate runs thru<BR>
> a different town, after all, there are still roads connecting them.<BR>
<BR>
The change isn't going to happen overnight. Historically, it seems <BR>
to me that in the US, when a new highway gets built, it's the people <BR>
in the path of the *new* one who get more upset (because their towns <BR>
are suddenly more popular) than the people who have now been relegated <BR>
to "backwater" status. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:25:17 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 17:36 23.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>At 13:51 22.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> >At 11:19 AM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
> >>Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
> >>machen?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Alle Hagel die Pinguin Herr!<BR>
><BR>
>Could someone translate this for me?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it should be: All hail the Penguin-Lord ;-) Translated with a <BR>
English-German Book, was it?<BR>
<BR>
Hagel is the hard ice that falls down from the sky, not "Heil!", which is <BR>
also translated as hail.<BR>
"die Pinguin Herr" should probably be "der Herr der Pinguine" or der "der <BR>
Knigspinguin".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:27:00 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 12:04 -0500 23/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> >The original notion was that Strephon was actually killed, and the "real<BR>
> >Strephon" was as to Strephon as Pugachev was to Tsar Peter III.<BR>
> >We changed our minds in mid-stream, and this is one of the rough bits.<BR>
>I'm glad you did. It made Strephon a far more tragic character.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed. It made Arrival Vengeance one of the bits of Traveller that <BR>
really had an impact on me emotionally when reading it.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:18:49 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
At 10:22 -0500 23/3/00, Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:<BR>
>This would have been a clear kill if I had been drinking anything. Thank<BR>
>you for getting this stuff in print. It is now a published part of<BR>
>canon.<BR>
>*dramatic drumroll*<BR>
>Be *very* afraid...<BR>
>:-)<BR>
<BR>
I refuse to deny the rumour that Famille Spofulam are also mentioned in ACQ.<BR>
<BR>
The penguins made us do it.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:28:58 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 09:22 23.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 05:36 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>>Alle Hagel die Pinguin Herr!<BR>
>><BR>
>>Could someone translate this for me?<BR>
><BR>
>All Hail the Penguin Lords<BR>
<BR>
Ach so!<BR>
<BR>
"Alle preisen die Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
<BR>
Sag' das doch gleich.<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
I assume you know that, but what you wrote was:<BR>
<BR>
"All hail (you, those small, icy balls...) the penguin master!"<BR>
<BR>
And the *the* article was feminimum, while penguin master would in this<BR>
case be masculinum. Ahem.<BR>
<BR>
But OTOH: Who cares?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2166<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2167</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2167<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
RE: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
Re: Genderf**k and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2162<BR>
Canon X-boat routes?<BR>
Trav Novels<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Had to ask<BR>
Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
Re: Clone<BR>
Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Vs: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
For the world desingers..<BR>
Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: The TML Landgrab<BR>
TML Landgrab Question<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:34:43 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:00 23.03.00 -0800, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> "Back into novels"? Were there any novels published? If yes: Where the hell<BR>
>> can I get them!<BR>
>> ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>Well, there were two TNE Novels published, and there was a third about ready<BR>
>when GDW went under.  As for finding them, good luck.  <BR>
<BR>
Only TNE?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, it's a pitty!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:41:02 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>
> > The American Revolution is vary unpopular in the US today because it<BR>
> > involved the dismantling of the current government by <BR>
> private citizens who owned guns. <BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, it didn't.  <BR>
<BR>
Really?  I have three ancestors who fought for the colonies in that war (and at least one that fought for the British), each colonial was a private citizen who brought along their personally owned firearms.<BR>
<BR>
> It involved the pre-existing <BR>
> governments of the 13<BR>
> colonies separating themselves from the higher authority of <BR>
> Britain.  <BR>
<BR>
The revolution legitimized the existence of the Continental Congress.  As it was not created til 1774 and not seen as legitimate by Britain, it was hardly the pre-existing government.  It wasn't the Royal Governors of the colonies leading the revolution.<BR>
<BR>
> It <BR>
> also involved armies and all the other trappings of state vs <BR>
> state conflict.<BR>
<BR>
Yes it did, but where did the people in those armies come from?<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:42:43 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
<BR>
I bought the first TNE novel, got about 50 pages into it, and then decided<BR>
it wasn't worth the effort.  I recall seeing the second part of the trilogy<BR>
and also a T4 novel, but the first experience put me off the others, so I<BR>
never tried them.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher [mailto:Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de]<BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:35 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Novels?(was:Re: OT? Somewhat.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 10:00 23.03.00 -0800, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> "Back into novels"? Were there any novels published? If yes: Where the<BR>
hell<BR>
>> can I get them!<BR>
>> ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>Well, there were two TNE Novels published, and there was a third about<BR>
ready<BR>
>when GDW went under.  As for finding them, good luck.  <BR>
<BR>
Only TNE?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, it's a pitty!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:48:48 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Genderf**k and Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> You have to realize that we have several *independent* roles lumped<BR>
> together as someone's "sex" in our culture. Other cultures have<BR>
> seperated some or all of them to a greater or lesser degree.<BR>
> <BR>
> Social: what role you play in society. This tends to affect mode of<BR>
>         dress and the type of "jobs" one performs in the society. <BR>
> <BR>
> Biological: what your physical/genetic characteristics are. Note that<BR>
>        genetic "sex" and physical "sex" do *not always match. That's<BR>
>        *why* they do those tests on athletes.<BR>
> <BR>
> "Sexual": what sort of sexual partners you take.<BR>
> <BR>
> That's three sets right there.<BR>
<BR>
Well, four, really, since you quite wisely note the difference between<BR>
physical and genetic gender. Then there's all the shadings and mixes<BR>
imaginable, especially if your Traveller universe provides for <BR>
convenient surgical alterations. If I replace my outie with an <BR>
innie for the weekend, have I become a lesbian? (I know at least <BR>
one (ex?)reader of the TML would say not.)<BR>
<BR>
IMTU... well, it's not even really a Traveller universe anymore. <BR>
In Sohl Cluster, one of my sophont races, the Lin, are quasi-<BR>
mammalian critters which have two definite physical genders, but <BR>
about 90% of individual Lin changes gender from time to time, the <BR>
change taking about 6 months start to finish. Environmental and <BR>
hormonal factors trigger the change, so Travellers need to either <BR>
take their gender-control pills regularly or live with unexpected <BR>
shifts. Genetically, the shifting Lin are hermaphrodites, and the <BR>
equipment just rearranges itself to present one set of genitals<BR>
at a time. <BR>
<BR>
Humans who aren't really familiar with Lin can't generally tell a<BR>
Lin's physical gender; the overall morphology doesn't change much. <BR>
Lin can tell pretty quickly from behavioral and pheromonal cues, <BR>
though they sometimes get fooled, especially by individuals in <BR>
transition. <BR>
<BR>
Lin travelling in human space tend to adopt human customs, clothing<BR>
styles, and whatnot. <BR>
<BR>
Now that I have a PC Lin in the campaign, I expect that I'll be <BR>
finding lots of food for thought regarding gender issues. In the <BR>
first day of play, the (currently female) Lin character started <BR>
flirting with a woman. A human woman. If a human decides that a <BR>
sentient four-armed weasel is an acceptable partner for Pleasurable<BR>
Physical Activities Which Will Not Be Described In Detail, should <BR>
that human get hung up on gender?<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:51:35 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
One of my players just called and told me he didn't like the Traveller<BR>
Universe I use in the campaign... which is basically 3I at 1115.<BR>
<BR>
I'm still not sure if this has actually happened...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:53:40 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2162<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne wrote:<BR>
> The average population of a planet of the Imperium (based on pop rolls from<BR>
> LBB3) is 1,714,674,211 [1] or aproximately 2*10^9. <BR>
> [snip]<BR>
> <BR>
> [1] based on 5*10^10/36+5*10^9*2/36... 5*10^0/36 (I actually expected a<BR>
> smaller number so maybe I goofed)<BR>
<BR>
That's the homeworld population of the average citizen; Laning's <BR>
lower figure (5*10^5) for "statistically expected population" was <BR>
the population of the median world. The average citizen comes <BR>
from a hi-pop world because there are more people there. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:59:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Canon X-boat routes?<BR>
<BR>
What marks an X-boat relay station in the various sector lists?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:04:33 -0400<BR>
From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
Subject: Trav Novels<BR>
<BR>
Zane wrote<BR>
<BR>
>I think there was also a T4 related novel, and a couple books that were<BR>
>based on classic Traveller (but not listed as Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
One showed up at my local chapters  -  scanned a few pages last night, put<BR>
it back.  Definitely only for completists.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:59:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 06:25 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I suppose it should be: All hail the Penguin-Lord ;-) Translated with a <BR>
>English-German Book, was it?<BR>
<BR>
http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran<BR>
<BR>
Very useful site.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry      )+(      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored with sex."<BR>
	                    - Fry, Futurama<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:01:02<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
At 06:18 PM 3/23/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I refuse to deny the rumour that Famille Spofulam are also mentioned in ACQ.<BR>
><BR>
>The penguins made us do it.<BR>
<BR>
And Rod and I get blown up in it. :)  *Never* use "Fizzle-Pop" energy<BR>
cells. Trust me.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:04:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 07:28 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>"Alle preisen die Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
<BR>
A new sig! I now have *four* penguin related sigs, my news business cards<BR>
have penguins on them, them damn things are starting to invade my sleep.<BR>
<BR>
doobie-doobie-doo....<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:59:24 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Had to ask<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:02 PM<BR>
Subject: 4 Horsemen?<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps you shouldn't translate what the cargo container on the front cover<BR>
> says . . .<BR>
> <BR>
What does it say???<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:12:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/23/00 12:08 AM, Jesse DeGraff<BR>
jdegraff@pacbell.net issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Thought I'd take a couple of minutes off (hurridly) working on AR3 to post<BR>
> some shots of the ships I've fully completed so far.  All are Hiver ships.<BR>
> I'll also be doing two Droyne ships, but I haven't finished those yet.<BR>
<BR>
Those are so sweet, keep up the good work.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:41:58 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 19:27 23.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>At 12:04 -0500 23/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> <BR>
>wrote:<BR>
>> >The original notion was that Strephon was actually killed, and the "real<BR>
>> >Strephon" was as to Strephon as Pugachev was to Tsar Peter III.<BR>
>> >We changed our minds in mid-stream, and this is one of the rough bits.<BR>
>>I'm glad you did. It made Strephon a far more tragic character.<BR>
><BR>
>Agreed. It made Arrival Vengeance one of the bits of Traveller that really <BR>
>had an impact on me emotionally when reading it.<BR>
<BR>
Also, Strephon had always been the contender I had been ROOTing for, so I <BR>
had always considered him to be the real deal. His story was just too good...<BR>
<BR>
(I liked Norris as well, but he was not a contender for the throne)<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:34:30 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
>As everyone seems to be on a Germanic slant....<BR>
>nb:  this is not intended to offend !!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT<BR>
><BR>
>The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will<BR>
>be adopted as the official language of the EU rather than German, which was<BR>
>to have been the other possibility.<BR>
><BR>
>As part of these negotiations Her Majesty's Government conceded that the<BR>
>rules of English Spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a<BR>
>five year phase-in plan that would be known as Euro-English.<BR>
><BR>
>In the first year, the soft 'c' will be replaced.  Sertainly this will make<BR>
>the sivil servants jump with joy.   The hard 'c' will be dropped in favour<BR>
>of the more sensible 'k'.  This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan<BR>
>have one less letter.<BR>
><BR>
>There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the<BR>
>troublesome 'ph' will be replaced by 'f'.  This will make words like<BR>
>'fotograf' 20% shorter.<BR>
><BR>
>In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to<BR>
>reach the stage whereby more komplikated changes are made possible.<BR>
>Governments will enkorage the removal of double leters which have always ben<BR>
>a deterent to akurate speling.  Also al wil agre that the horible mes of the<BR>
>silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.<BR>
><BR>
>By the 4th yar peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replacing 'th' with 'z<BR>
>' and 'w' with the more apropriat 'v'.<BR>
><BR>
>During ze fifz yar ze unesesary 'o' can be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou'<BR>
>and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.<BR>
><BR>
>After ziz fifx yar ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.  Zer vil be no mor<BR>
>trubl or difikultis and evri vun vil find it ezi tu onderstand ech ozer.<BR>
>Zen ze drem vil finaly kum tru.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:10:10 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 11:04 23.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 07:28 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>"Alle preisen die Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
><BR>
>A new sig! I now have *four* penguin related sigs, my news business cards<BR>
>have penguins on them, them damn things are starting to invade my sleep.<BR>
><BR>
>doobie-doobie-doo....<BR>
<BR>
Let me guess: You are a Linux user?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:32:59 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 10:56 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Cultural prejudices aside, my main problem with the idea of eating small <BR>
> invertebrates is the low return on the investment.  <BR>
<BR>
AFAIK (read a book by some entymologist couple of years ago) insects have a very high nutritional value for their size. Also they have proteins that are readily usable by human metabolism. It has been speculated that the earliest hominids were quite insectivorous in thei diet, and this has been affecting the evolution of human eye-hand coordination. (As has been browsing of berries and other small high nutrition edibles.)<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:30:50 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>I imagine that many smaller, lo-tech worlds get a lot of income for arms<BR>
>races by selling the coverage rights to various entertainment companies. <BR>
> No nukes though, Imperial Rules of War violation.<BR>
><BR>
>"OK, boys, tonight we're assaulting Mt. Formidible. Put on these new<BR>
>uniforms, and remember, don't look at the cameras."<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall the leader, but I remember a Mexican revolution during the<BR>
early days of filmography where cameramen from Hollywood, USA <BR>
accompanied the rebel army. The general frequently made tactically<BR>
stupid decisions because they either made the filming easier, or looked <BR>
better on camera. Things like not doing night attacks, for example.<BR>
<BR>
I remember a science fiction tale where a company is hired to fight<BR>
a war, and manages to get a subsidiary company hired to fight the other<BR>
side of the war. The two companies get together, make some deals,<BR>
and start providing a rootin, shootin war to their respective employers.<BR>
Explosions, dogfights, artillery barrages, infantry charges - all done with<BR>
special effects, stuntmen and actors. Eventually the war dies down<BR>
into a stalemate, the two sides make peace, and the two companies<BR>
take their profits home with no one the wiser.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine the profit margin, when those twenty starfighters you list as<BR>
business losses were CGI constructs, models and mock-ups?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:15:08<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: For the world desingers..<BR>
<BR>
Tainted atmospheres? I got yer tainted atmospheres!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/03/23<BR>
/MN40103.DTL<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:18:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
<BR>
At 07:51 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>One of my players just called and told me he didn't like the Traveller<BR>
>Universe I use in the campaign... which is basically 3I at 1115.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm still not sure if this has actually happened...<BR>
<BR>
You're not sure he called, or you aren't sure if he really didn't like the<BR>
setting? :)<BR>
<BR>
As with everything else, it's a matter of taste. Most of us have varying<BR>
degrees of fondness for the 3I, ranging from toleration to slavish devotion<BR>
to every detail. Others do their own thing. <BR>
<BR>
Try to find out what it is about the setting that he doesn't like, and see<BR>
if it is something that can be addressed in your game.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:40:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 08:10 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>doobie-doobie-doo....<BR>
><BR>
>Let me guess: You are a Linux user?<BR>
<BR>
Not yet. But I have rabid hordes of Linux evangelists just waiting for the<BR>
word, and they'll install tons of freeware on my poor little WinBox.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:40:25 +0000<BR>
From: Shane Nicholas Thomas <shane.thomas@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
If no one has beaten me to it I'm going to grab Nexine/Mora.<BR>
<BR>
It's going to be fun justifying a size 9 tropical water world in<BR>
orbit around an M8V... (apart from anything else, where can I put<BR>
penguins?)<BR>
<BR>
Shane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:45:05 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
Spectral classes. I hadn't even thought of spectral classes.<BR>
<BR>
Is there an online listing of spectral classes in the spinward marches?<BR>
I'd like to claim a planet, but I don't think any of my sourcebooks have<BR>
this information.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:54:29 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  I should perhaps rephrase a few things.  My own statements taken from<BR>
earlier messages are heavily edited below, and I apologize in advance if you<BR>
feel I'm stepping on your toes a bit by cutting out large swaths of text in<BR>
the interest of space.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
I submit that "rule by the best" is indeed what happens in Western cultures,<BR>
in the sense that there is a certain social level below which a candidate<BR>
has little chance of being elected.  This social level includes education<BR>
and material wealth, as well as an acceptable religion (mainstream, usually<BR>
protestant). <BR>
Therefore, there is an "aristocracy" present in American politics.  It is<BR>
not necessarily hereditary, since there are some individuals who cross the<BR>
barriers, but there is a familial element.<BR>
By "rule by the best" I in no way mean that these are the best possible<BR>
candidates for the office, merely that they are perceived as being part of<BR>
the "best" segment of the population - the aristocracy.<BR>
    <BR>
>Indeed, I've never heard, until this very moment, any American with whom<BR>
I've talked to about the subject of democratic elections in the U.S. equate<BR>
the candidates with "the best". I hear things like, "[Candidate A] is the<BR>
lesser of two evils," "I don't trust [Candidate B], he's got beady little<BR>
eyes," "I voted for [Candidate A]<BR>
because I'm a [Political Party A]," I voted for [Candidate B] because I<BR>
don't like [Political Party A]."<<BR>
<BR>
Aren't the looking for the best candidate then?  In the sense of "least<BR>
repulsive", of course. <g>  I personally agree that money and the ability to<BR>
repeat sound bites with some form of conviction win elections.  What I meant<BR>
by "rule by the best" is the social-level thing I attempted to explain<BR>
above.  I've heard many people express the viewpoint that there are no good<BR>
candidates in some elections, lending credence to the idea that Americans<BR>
are looking for the best, but settling for less out of necessity.<BR>
<BR>
> >Governments and cultures are linked in ways that are very, very<BR>
> difficult to unravel. You can't look at one without looking at the other.<<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Granted, to a point.  The attitudes and morals of the US government itself<BR>
can be very different from the actual culture it governs, with the culture<BR>
still having several attitudes and morals in common.<BR>
<BR>
>You seem to be saying that there is a definite and generalizable moral<BR>
framework in the late 20th century in the West (or at least in America)<BR>
which can be said to apply universally. While I personally disagree with<BR>
that notion, I'm willing to be involved in a discussion within that<BR>
framework.<<BR>
<BR>
That is what I'm saying.  It is a VERY general framework, but I believe it<BR>
does exist.<BR>
<BR>
The situation in the Imperium is somewhat analgous to the interaction of<BR>
state and federal government in the US.  The people of Utah, for instance,<BR>
have quite a bit of say in how Utah is<BR>
run (their "world"), but relatively little influence on how the rest of the<BR>
nation is run or on how the national government can interact with Utah;...<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, no. You, like every other state in the Union, have a number of<BR>
popularly elected representatives who are able to fight for the interests of<BR>
your state. Your state, like every other state in the union, has a say in<BR>
who will be in power in the federal government.<<BR>
<BR>
I repeat the phrase "relatively little".  I recognize that we do have some<BR>
representation, but the power of such is quite small.<BR>
<BR>
...a fact ably demonstrated by President Clinton when he grabbed the<BR>
Grand Escalante Staircase National Park for the Federal Government<BR>
with no input by local government.<BR>
<BR>
>Really? What did your congressmen and senators have to say about this?<<BR>
<BR>
They were quite upset.  However, the President appears to have been within<BR>
the powers granted him in doing so, so their opinions were largely ignored<BR>
out of state.  The popular view in-state is that the President felt that<BR>
strengthening his position as a Green president was more important to him<BR>
than the opinion of a state in which he took third in the '92 election.  To<BR>
add insult to injury, he made the announcement of the creation of the<BR>
national park next door in Arizona, not in Utah.<BR>
<BR>
True, we do have some say in national government, but the power of a single<BR>
state (and a somewhat remote state with a relatively small population) is<BR>
not much more significant than none at all.<BR>
<BR>
>It's significant that it's there at all, and it's significant that the<BR>
theory behind it requires certain moral and ethical assumptions to be in<BR>
place.<<BR>
<BR>
Yes, there are ethical and moral assumptions which do appear to be different<BR>
than what exists in the 3I, but my position is that those assumptions don't<BR>
necessarily hold true in practice today.  The 3I has enough of a free press<BR>
for an unimportant world to make just as much stink about an injustice as<BR>
Utah did, and will have just about as much effect.<BR>
<BR>
In the Third Imperium, each world has greater freedom in how they govern<BR>
their own affairs but little influence (except through the Moot) on the<BR>
Imperial government.<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, the populations of individual worlds have absolutely no say<BR>
whatsoever in the moot. None. Most individual worlds do not even have<BR>
Imperial nobles attached to them specifically. Further, the moot is not a<BR>
representative body in any way, shape or form, and it's never been presented<BR>
as such.<<BR>
>Indeed, the very fact that you see it as a representational body speaks<BR>
volumes to my point, which is that the Imperium doesn't look a whole lot<BR>
like the western world in the late 20th century.<<BR>
<BR>
While it is not a representative body, the Moot does have some indirect<BR>
influence on the Imperial government.  While individual worlds may not have<BR>
a representative, every subsector presumably has at least one, and this one<BR>
does, in a sense, represent the wellfare of his subsector.  If a noble is<BR>
sufficiently unpopuluar he will probably be replaced, as it does his<BR>
superiors no good to have their sectors or domains look bad because of him.<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor was something of a socialist democrat, in the sense that he pushed<BR>
for both more local influence in the Imperial government and more influence<BR>
of the Imperial government on local government.  He wished to raise the<BR>
standard of living in the Imperium and make the Imperium more homogenous<BR>
culturally.  The reason he caused havoc is because instead of waiting for<BR>
the reforms that Strephen was already making towards increasing local<BR>
authority (in particular, through increasing the power of the Archdukes), he<BR>
decided to attempt to force the change overnight, and did not plan well.<BR>
Dulinor was just trying to speed a process that Strephen had already<BR>
started, and his impatience caused the war.<BR>
<BR>
>Increasing the power of the Archdukes seems to make little sense, as the<BR>
Archdukes were already assumed to control their Domains absolutely. This is<BR>
an inconsistency in the official Traveller Universe, and a relatively large<BR>
one at that.<<BR>
<BR>
Some sources say that the Archdukes once held near-absolute power and that<BR>
that power had been watered down after the Civil War.  Strephen, after<BR>
seeing the mess of the FFW, restored a measure of that power.<BR>
<BR>
>We are, in essence "the bad guys"<<BR>
>I'm not talking "bad guys" in the sense of how the characters are<BR>
written into the plot of the story, but "bad guys" in the sense of people<BR>
with modern western ideas of government are the revolutionaries and<BR>
subversives of the Imperium.<<BR>
<BR>
I understood your position, I just chose to ignore it in favor of my own<BR>
opinions <g>.  That is, of course, why phones have more holes on the talking<BR>
than on the listening end.<BR>
<BR>
The Ine Givar, Dulinor, etc. are certainly the bad guys, and the claim that<BR>
democratic reform is their goal, but numerous political reformists that want<BR>
stronger local government exist today in the United States that are also<BR>
obviously bad guys.  The Oklahoma city bombing could easily be an Ine Givar<BR>
act, for example.  <BR>
<BR>
I still maintain that it does look much like our own culture.<BR>
<BR>
>I still haven't seen any substantial examples of how this is so.<<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  Well, guess I better come up with a few similarities:<BR>
<BR>
Slavery is not tolerated.<BR>
Citizens are allowed to travel within and without the Imperial borders.<BR>
A free press (the TNS) exists.<BR>
Family relationships exist. (of necessity - the government IS hereditary.<BR>
Notice I'm not saying what kind of family relationships, although I always<BR>
assumed they were similar to our own)<BR>
Illegal drugs exist.<BR>
Weapons are available to the general populace.<BR>
A cold war is being fought between the 3I and the Zhodani, and to a lesser<BR>
extent the Solomani. (no longer relevant, but it was in the '80s)<BR>
Large, privately-owned corporations span the nation. (including fast food<BR>
chains)<BR>
English is the lingua franca.<BR>
The 3I is dominated by humans. (and not something else)<BR>
On a more abstract level, many of the same things are valued - friendship,<BR>
money, love, neat vehicles, honor, integrity, equality.  Similar things are<BR>
crimes - murder, theft, lying before those in authority, betrayal.  <BR>
<BR>
Things that are obviously not similar to our culture:<BR>
The government form is hereditary and based on nobility.<BR>
Internecine wars are allowed (a convention to allow more adventure<BR>
possibilities).<BR>
<BR>
*whew* enough writing for now.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2167<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2168<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re:  Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Re:  Traveller Novels?  (or why does everyone forget)<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
RE: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
Re: Greek relationships <BR>
Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:23:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
As far as I can tell, the data at http://www.rossmack.com/ab/RPG/traveller/<BR>
is accurate.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:45 AM<BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Spectral classes. I hadn't even thought of spectral classes.<BR>
><BR>
> Is there an online listing of spectral classes in the spinward marches?<BR>
> I'd like to claim a planet, but I don't think any of my sourcebooks have<BR>
> this information.<BR>
><BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:53:13 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> You do realize that your use of the phrase "goes both ways"<BR>
> is a discussion of people who self identify as homosexual<BR>
> or heterosexual is 1) funny and 2) begs the question of the<BR>
> validity of these self identifications.<BR>
<BR>
But the problem is that there is really only one way to<BR>
categorize people as homo, hetro or whateveroand that's<BR>
by asking them.<BR>
<BR>
Scholars have this problem in every field of study that is <BR>
basically sociological in nature. When studying Christians,<BR>
who determines what a Christian is? A lot of evangelicals <BR>
would say that Roman Catholics aren't real Christians. (Not<BR>
that I would say that though). Even worse, how do you classify <BR>
people in a culture that you're not a member of? How can<BR>
"Western" scholars determine who is or isn't a Buddhist? You <BR>
end up going with whatever people say they are.<BR>
<BR>
Self identification is, be definition, 100% accurate.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, it's not like there's some sort of "Gay Board" that <BR>
approves each and every gay or lesbian. I mean, geez, imagine <BR>
the amount of paperwork.  THough I can't think up a joke as funny<BR>
as "goes both ways".<BR>
<BR>
Ethan "File That Over Here" Henry<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:51:37 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
  O.K. I think I can see why Americans disavow Revolutions (including their <BR>
own).<BR>
  It is ironic, however, as much the French Revolution generated chaos it is <BR>
still a subject of great pride in France.  But to query one gentleman's <BR>
comment...you see the American revolution as part of a localized world war <BR>
(13 states (with the French help) versus Britain).  Not a being scholar of <BR>
American studies, myself, I always assumed that at root the grievances of <BR>
the colonies were fought more along the lines of pitched battles here and <BR>
there.  With Britain trying through mainly naval actions means choke trade.  <BR>
What was the scale of British ground troops at the American Revolution?<BR>
  I hope we can all see the plug for a Trav adventure or at least a ticket <BR>
against the Empire forming.<BR>
<BR>
   Peter wrote:<BR>
   [But first let me announce my sympathies for to Dulinor as I had always <BR>
seen him as embodying the hubris of pride - like dear Brutus in JC]<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor was not a  Liberal,  he  was  a  cowardly  and  impatient<BR>
incompetant!<BR>
<BR>
His cowardly action does not make him any less of a liberal.  As far as <BR>
impatient.  Today, liberals advocate working within the system but when <BR>
confronted against a calcified power structure such as the 3I.  They would <BR>
soon turn toward other means...  But, because of the diffusion of power into <BR>
1100 worlds.  Revolt is usually localized.  And, as Commissaries become <BR>
Counts in the next (or the same a la George Orwell) generation.  The status <BR>
quo is hence preserved, with perhaps, the world choosing a more democratic <BR>
form of government.  Thus, for any challenge to the status quo.  It would <BR>
have to take place it have to be amongst the High Nobility.  Thus, the role <BR>
fell to Dulinor alone as all other nobles were either engaged in croquet or <BR>
charity work or simply commerce.  Any other attempts by any other social <BR>
force would be quickly snuffed out by the powers that be.  Plus, as subjects <BR>
they do not necessarily see themselves as the makers of their own History.<BR>
<BR>
  He did not lead his domain  to  rebel  against  the<BR>
Imperium on the back of a popular uprising.<BR>
<BR>
Well...he did try to lay the foundation in his own Domain.  He did try to <BR>
institute the battle to win their hearts and minds.  As we all know, Dlan <BR>
was the center of the most rebellious sector (Illeish).  Chances are that <BR>
the locals have long been inculcated toward revolt and natural rights which <BR>
they have wrought from their nobility.  Rather like the myth of the Freeborn <BR>
Englishman, in the case of the English and American Revolution.  Subjects <BR>
which have undergone revolt and then subsequent repression, often have deep <BR>
historical memories in which the ruling order has to incorporate in the new <BR>
social contract (however, tacitly)--read: concessions.<BR>
For all we know, the Surret could have being trying to re-establish their <BR>
sovereignity over the 3I. Ileish could have just boiling over with a <BR>
populace ready for a fight.  Why else would they then die in Dulinor's wars. <BR>
  Because of noblesse obligese?  Well, only if that particular noble offered <BR>
them a more tangible set of goods.  And, Dulinor did just that...he promised <BR>
to transform the institutions of the 3I into becoming a Liberal Democracy.<BR>
<BR>
  Nor did he  properly<BR>
execute the established means of  replacing  an  emperor  through<BR>
assassination.  What he did do was plunge the 11000  worlds  into<BR>
chaos by killing the emperor and leaving them with the problem of<BR>
succession to the  throne.<BR>
<BR>
Well...what would you do a battalion of Marines approaching in Full Battle <BR>
Dress armed with Plasma Rifles dedicated to maintaining the status quo.  <BR>
Hold out with your rebels, hoping that the conservative Moot would pronounce <BR>
your succession legal?  The Core sector, as well, would have not been too <BR>
sympathetic to a boy from the Provinces trying to rewrite the rules.  So he <BR>
went to his power base.  That is his own Domain, to counter the status quo <BR>
on his own territory (making the mistake on not fully consolidating his <BR>
position before hand and relaying on fairly Machiavellian services such as <BR>
the INI).<BR>
<BR>
  He  then  used  that  chaos  to  give<BR>
himself power in his own domain which  he  kept  through  careful<BR>
media manipulation.<BR>
<BR>
Remember he had ultimate power.  All the Emperor's power is transmitted thru <BR>
the nobility.  Archdukes are the senior representives of the nobility.  <BR>
True, I did not like that he claimed the title of Emperor, but what would <BR>
President or Chairman mean to the vast majority of the subjects of the 3I.  <BR>
Again, I harken back to George Washington, he was never elected except by <BR>
Congress (and remember at that time the Senate was not elected).  As far as <BR>
media manipulation, well, there was not a side in the whole Rebellion which <BR>
did not try to control the media...  The war for the hearts and minds is <BR>
always difficult.  Monopoly on the means of communication goes a long way in <BR>
securing that control.  Was he any more manipulative, than any others?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know *what* was going on in Dulinor's mind.  But its  not<BR>
like the Imperium was resisting change ... just reforming  at  an<BR>
evolutionary pace instead of a revolutionary  pace.<BR>
<BR>
That is the excuse of all regimes...evolution is in progress.  Revolutions <BR>
are usually the outcome of evolutionary processes which have gone stagnate <BR>
and reverted back.  We can see Stephon making gradual changes, but, likewise <BR>
George III (or accurately Pitt who said:  "God grant us the wisdom of <BR>
America").  What you are proposing was that Dulinor made a Coup d'etait <BR>
rather than a revolution.  In one sense, I would agree with you but <BR>
concurrent with the discussion on culture in the 3I, we do not know how <BR>
progressive or regressive the Imperium is.  We always assume the 3I is the <BR>
USA,UK, Finland, Germany or some form of government that we may be <BR>
personally familiar with.  But, clearly for some periods it has been like: <BR>
[name].  But, other periods it could have been more repressive or more <BR>
liberal.  It is the transition between these phases which could trigger <BR>
revolt or pacification campaigns.  Dulinor clearly thought that the <BR>
transition need a revolutionary push.<BR>
<BR>
  And  as  for<BR>
overthrowing a "remote and impersonal government which in no  way<BR>
represented its subjects", if his alternative was so much  better<BR>
how come he had a number of subsectors rebel against him?<BR>
<BR>
The alternative was never fully realized the contigencies of war, made it <BR>
necessary to forsake some of the utopian aspirations and focus on crass <BR>
Realpolitk.  Also, he had not gotten his message out throughout the realm.  <BR>
Verge separated as we know because they did fully believe in principles but <BR>
did not want to continue send its citizens to die.  Dulinor simply believed <BR>
that the current political structure was not compatible with the economic <BR>
base, perhaps... Or he was an Idealist.  Clearly he was impatient and rash.  <BR>
But, his reasons were sound.  What Dulinor did was in the end a tragedy of <BR>
Shakespearian proportions.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:04:17 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Traveller Novels?  (or why does everyone forget)<BR>
<BR>
Not only TNE was represent in the form of Novels.  There was one official <BR>
one for T4 (pretty bad...but had some merit).<BR>
   And, my favorite Traveller author whose alternative Milieu could easily <BR>
be a pocket empire somewhere.  Jefferson P. Swycaffer.  He was an active <BR>
member of HIWG and wrote some things for Dragon and JTAS.  His campaign was <BR>
recognized by Marc as an alternative milieu and was recommended by JTAS.  He <BR>
uses all the Traveller concepts well, save, having an object protrude <BR>
outside a Jump field.<BR>
<BR>
I just wish he would write more here is my listing below.  If anyone knows <BR>
of any other I would very much appreciate it they could contact me:<BR>
<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Not In  Our Stars [Avon Books]- Classic <BR>
Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Become the Hunted [Avon Books]- Classic <BR>
Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  The Universal Prey [Avon Books]- Classic <BR>
Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  The Praesidium of Archive [Avon Books]- <BR>
Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  The Empires Legacy [New Infinities <BR>
Productions Inc] - Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Voyage of the Planetslayer [New Infinities <BR>
Productions Inc] - Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Revolt and Rebirth [New Infinities <BR>
Productions Inc] - Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Brunelle,  Paul.  The Death of Wisdom [GDW] - Traveller:  The New <BR>
Era<BR>
&#61549; Brunelle,  Paul.  To Dream of Chaos [GDW] - Traveller:  The New Era<BR>
&#61549; Askegren, Pierce.  Gateway to the Stars [Byron Press] - Marc <BR>
Miller's Traveller or T4<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:30:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hagel is the hard ice that falls down from the sky, not "Heil!", which is<BR>
Not to be confused with Hegel, the hard to understand philosopher who causes<BR>
philosophy students to jump from windows. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:47:50 -0000<BR>
From: "Alistair J. R. Young" <avatar@arkane.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
> Turns out they are right. The "public" sections of the building are a<BR>
> shell around a *major* fortification. Complete withdreadnought level<BR>
> shields and weapons... It's an *ugly* battle, even though they managed<BR>
> to evacuate the non-combats before attacking...<BR>
<BR>
ISTR that it was just a little bit... more than that.<BR>
<BR>
It was a shell around an actual dreadnought. There's quite a nice<BR>
description of what happens when they fire the main drive while still<BR>
embedded in the city.<BR>
<BR>
Alistair<BR>
(Anyone for the 'Skyscraper' class dreadnought? Just for those people who<BR>
want to make a spectacularly *non*-sneaky getaway.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:01:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>As far as I can tell, the data at <BR>
>http://www.rossmack.com/ab/RPG/traveller/ <BR>
>is accurate. <BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
I can only find the spectral data for a subsector or<BR>
so, on the Worlds page of this site. Am I a missing<BR>
something here?<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:12:05 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:43:11 -0500 (EST), Bruce Johnson<BR>
<johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> >> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
 <BR>
>> >Sounds Ok<BR>
 <BR>
>> This, I don't really see a problem with.<BR>
<BR>
>Sigh. If you knew how they _harvested_ those things you sure as heck<BR>
>would! Even if you don't LIKE sharks, it's a horrifically cruel way of<BR>
>doing it.<BR>
<BR>
Ohfergossakes. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's<BR>
politicizing my lunch. Especially when I've already politicized<BR>
my dessert.<BR>
<BR>
Look, there are a lot of things I don't like about our<BR>
generalized-agricultural methods today, but if there's one thing<BR>
that bugs me even more than the methods, it's the fact that the<BR>
only solution that anyone's proposed has been to completely<BR>
destroy the segment of the market entirely.  I've yet to see<BR>
anyone propose solutions that would alleviate the purported<BR>
problem without ignoring the demand side of the equation.<BR>
<BR>
When someone comes up with a reasonable solution that satisfies<BR>
both demand and bleeding-heartism, I'll support it.  Until then,<BR>
keep your hands offa my lunch.<BR>
<BR>
(I buy dolphin-safe tuna.  The nets used are an acceptable<BR>
solution - they alleviate the problem, but allow the demand to be<BR>
satisfied.)<BR>
<BR>
(N.B. It should be noted that I have _not_, as of this date, ever<BR>
knowingly consumed shark-fin soup - mostly due to lack of<BR>
opportunity.  My remarks above were intended to indicate that,<BR>
_considered_as_food_, I do not experience the squeamishness that<BR>
I would with, say, bird-nest soup.)<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:17:29 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hi!<BR>
> <BR>
> One of my players just called and told me he didn't like the Traveller<BR>
> Universe I use in the campaign... which is basically 3I at 1115.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm still not sure if this has actually happened...<BR>
<BR>
For his impudence, throw a Sixth Frontier War at him.  With penguins<BR>
armed with (and fired from) Famile Spofulam weapons.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:09:31 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships <BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> >> Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
> >> Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
> >> machen?  <BR>
<BR>
> As someone else wrote: That is really _bad_ German. <BR>
<BR>
Yes but it was not my bad German instead it is what I was<BR>
responding to. Is the translation below any better?<BR>
<BR>
Wir wissen bereits, da das dritte Imperium wirklich ein <BR>
Tausendjahr-Realm ist! Aber was sollten wir ber das Problem <BR>
Droyne tun? <BR>
<BR>
> >Un royaume de onze cent dix-sept ans, non . <BR>
> <BR>
> Non, pas onze cent dix-sept ans. Tausendjaehriges Reich, il a ecrit,<BR>
> nest-ce pas?<BR>
<BR>
The Third Imperium lasted (IMNSHO) from 0 to 1117, and<BR>
this is one thousand one hundred and seventeen years. <BR>
<BR>
> >Quant au <BR>
> >problme de Droyne, comme Retief a dit: " Aucune population, <BR>
> >aucun malaise populaire. " Non? <BR>
<BR>
> Non. Grand-Pere a une medicine pur toutes les malaises populaires des Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
Grandfather has done things to protect the Droyne within<BR>
the last few tens of thousands of years and has slightly<BR>
interacted with them (new Major races on the Coyns) within<BR>
the last few thousand years. There is no evidence he has<BR>
done anything within the last few hundred years. While he<BR>
may have acted unseen, or may not have needed to act, it<BR>
is just as plausible to say that he does not act very often.<BR>
<BR>
We know that during the Rebellion several planets started<BR>
wars, or even genocidal programs, against their Droyne<BR>
and Chirpers [Survival Margin]. There is no canonical evidence<BR>
that Grandfather acted then. Therefore it is quite plausible<BR>
that a racist will be able to get away with these acts.<BR>
<BR>
> >Parlez en Anglais sur le TML s'il vous plat, je ne parlent <BR>
> >pas la langue Allemande.<BR>
<BR>
> Pourquoi? Tu (sic!) a compris le content.<BR>
<BR>
Ich kann ungefahr hundert Wrter des Deutschen lesen. Das <BR>
dieses nicht zu behandelndes genug ist Traveller. <BR>
<BR>
> If you want people to use English, why don't you write <BR>
> that in... say, English?<BR>
<BR>
Y estropee la broma? <BR>
<BR>
Translations, possibly of dubious quality, for the above<BR>
may be obtained from Babelfish at:<BR>
<BR>
http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:21:27 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Spectral classes. I hadn't even thought of spectral classes.<BR>
> <BR>
> Is there an online listing of spectral classes in the spinward marches?<BR>
> I'd like to claim a planet, but I don't think any of my sourcebooks have<BR>
> this information.<BR>
<BR>
Try Ethan Henry's subsector viewer, at:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry/traveller/viewer.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:21:35 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Rob Miracle wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I'm a pretty busy guy, but we got talking about it at work today and<BR>
> I think I'm going to grab . . .<BR>
> <BR>
> Milagro/District 268<BR>
> <BR>
> After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
> <BR>
> Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with a fraction<BR>
> of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
<BR>
The world's name says it all, Rob....<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:15:58 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Rob Miracle<BR>
<BR>
> Well, I'm a pretty busy guy, but we got talking about it at work<BR>
> today and I think I'm going to grab . . .<BR>
><BR>
> Milagro/District 268<BR>
><BR>
> After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
><BR>
> Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with<BR>
> a fraction of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
<BR>
Pretty simple really, it's a miracle.<BR>
<BR>
Think loaves & fishes.<BR>
<BR>
Of course as this is Traveller, there has to be a dirty secret somewhere....<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:15:58 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Rob Miracle<BR>
<BR>
> Well, I'm a pretty busy guy, but we got talking about it at work<BR>
> today and I think I'm going to grab . . .<BR>
><BR>
> Milagro/District 268<BR>
><BR>
> After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
><BR>
> Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with<BR>
> a fraction of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
<BR>
Pretty simple really, it's a miracle.<BR>
<BR>
Think loaves & fishes.<BR>
<BR>
Of course as this is Traveller, there has to be a dirty secret somewhere....<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:20:59 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural relativism<BR>
<BR>
> The average population of a planet of the Imperium (based on pop rolls<BR>
from<BR>
> LBB3) is 1,714,674,211 [1] or aproximately 2*10^9. IE the average resident<BR>
> of<BR>
> the 3I is from a high pop world. There are many worlds with much smaller<BR>
> populations but from a demographic standpoint these planets are close to<BR>
> irrelevant. There is plenty of room for diversity on a planet of 1.7<BR>
> billion.<BR>
> (There is plenty of room for cultural diversity on a planet of thousands<BR>
if<BR>
> the thousands are spread out enough.)<BR>
><BR>
> [1] based on 5*10^10/36+5*10^9*2/36... 5*10^0/36 (I actually expected a<BR>
> smaller number so maybe I goofed)<BR>
<BR>
This is actually the average per system, not per world.  The average per<BR>
world will be at least 10 times lower.<BR>
<BR>
I don't actually think enough importance is made of these other worlds.  Do<BR>
they feel like second class citizens in an empire of '11000 worlds'?<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:22:04 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
I've got a pile of World War One magazines with lots of cartoons, though you<BR>
have to realize that many cartoons from that era were rather blunt and<BR>
jingoistic. Lots of "Huns" being portrayed as ravenous animals about to rape<BR>
a scantily clad female "England", that sort of thing. Though there are one<BR>
two very sharp jabs at British politicians and allies as well.<BR>
<BR>
Is copyright 70 years in England ?<BR>
That would put all this stuff in the public domain.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jesse DeGraff<BR>
> Oooo, good idea!  If it's TOO expensive, then maybe we can re-write them<BR>
> enough, and use 3I characters for it?  Don't know how close to the legal<BR>
> issues that is :\<BR>
><BR>
> > Leonard Errickson wrote:<BR>
> > You know, if permission to reproduce isn't too expensive, that cartoon<BR>
> > and a few others would be rather appropriate as "sidebars" in the<BR>
> > ground forces stuff...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:25:25 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma wrote:<BR>
> English is the lingua franca.<BR>
<BR>
I just love this phrase. No, I know you know what it means. It just <BR>
makes me laugh.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:34:06 -0600<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Eris...that's my *name* not just my address. <g><BR>
><BR>
> Were you parents Discordians?<BR>
<BR>
Heavens no!  Jera and Jupiter predate the Discordians. ;-J<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's an old family name. I'm the fourth male Eris I know of in<BR>
my family, and the sixth I know of over all. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:45:54 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 23 Mar 00, at 10:33, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Are they any relation to NA possum?  They also are reputed to be edible,<BR>
> though gamy.<BR>
> <BR>
> However, I'd have a problem eating fellow Lodge brothers. Carpe Ductum!<BR>
<BR>
I don't think so. The Aussie possum (IIRC the correct spelling is <BR>
actually "Opossum") is a herbivourous marsupial about the size of a <BR>
large cat. They climb well and are a serious pest in New Zealand, where <BR>
along with goats, wasps and deer they are destroying our native <BR>
forests. At one point they were trapped heavily for their fur, but when <BR>
the greenies destroyed the world fur market that feel by the wayside <BR>
and only recently has there been any recovery.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:01:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
At 14:54 -0500 23/3/00, Doug Berry wrote:<BR>
> >I refuse to deny the rumour that Famille Spofulam are also mentioned in ACQ.<BR>
> >The penguins made us do it.<BR>
>And Rod and I get blown up in it. :)  *Never* use "Fizzle-Pop" energy<BR>
>cells. Trust me.<BR>
<BR>
And watch out for Gridlore Technology's Superdense Frying Pans, ideal <BR>
for all kitchen combat situations...<BR>
<BR>
BTW one of the guys reading the ACQ copies at Hebden (Derrick or <BR>
Matt, I'm not sure who now) turned around and said he thought that we <BR>
were twisted. I think that compliment has to go mainly to you though <BR>
Doug. He liked the sidebars/quotes/examples...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:11:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm.  I should perhaps rephrase a few things.  My own statements<BR>
> taken from earlier messages are heavily edited below, and I<BR>
> apologize in advance if you feel I'm stepping on your toes a bit by<BR>
> cutting out large swaths of text in the interest of space.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, I'll be cutting large swaths out in the interest of space as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
> Aren't the looking for the best candidate then?  In the sense of "least<BR>
> repulsive", of course. <g>  I personally agree that money and the<BR>
> ability to repeat sound bites with some form of conviction win<BR>
> elections.  What I meant by "rule by the best" is the social-level thing I<BR>
> attempted to explain above.  I've heard many people express the<BR>
> viewpoint that there are no good candidates in some elections,<BR>
> lending credence to the idea that Americans are looking for the best,<BR>
> but settling for less out of necessity.<BR>
<BR>
After a fashion, you've restated my point. First, I'd like to point out that<BR>
when I say "rule by the best", I don't mean rule by those who the population<BR>
decides are best to rule, but rule by an extremely small segment of the<BR>
population who are the best fit to rule, and that this fitness is passed on<BR>
from parent to child. This is more than a question of semantics.<BR>
<BR>
There is no input from the masses concerning the issue of who rules, period.<BR>
Nobles don't have to be popular, and they are not accountable to the people.<BR>
To really see how much this concept differs from the modern Western version,<BR>
check out some Burke, or even some Hobbes. For the opposing side, Locke or<BR>
Rousseau should fit the bill. It requires differing assumptions at the basic<BR>
levels of culture.<BR>
<BR>
> That is what I'm saying.  It is a VERY general framework, but I believe<BR>
> it does exist.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, I'm willing to continue this discussion within this framework.<BR>
What this means is that you can't point to the diversity of the cultures of<BR>
certain geographic areas to say that such a generalizable culture doesn't<BR>
exist.<BR>
<BR>
It's counter-productive, for obvious reasons.<BR>
<BR>
> >Actually, no. You, like every other state in the Union, have a number<BR>
> of popularly elected representatives who are able to fight for the<BR>
> interests of your state. Your state, like every other state in the union,<BR>
> has a say in who will be in power in the federal government.<<BR>
><BR>
> I repeat the phrase "relatively little".  I recognize that we do have<BR>
> some representation, but the power of such is quite small.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, because there are 49 other polities that also have<BR>
representatives. The Imperium doesn't have a body that looks anything like<BR>
this. Period. It has a moot, which is a body that has no real power or<BR>
authority. It's a collection of nobles. Not all nobles are involved, nor are<BR>
all nobles expected or obligated to be involved. None of the nobles cannot<BR>
be cashiered by the people, or drummed out of their positions.<BR>
<BR>
> They were quite upset.  However, the President appears to have<BR>
> been within the powers granted him in doing so, so their opinions<BR>
> were largely ignored out of state.  The popular view in-state is that<BR>
> the President felt that strengthening his position as a Green<BR>
> president was more important to him than the opinion of a state in<BR>
> which he took third in the '92 election.  To add insult to injury, he<BR>
> made the announcement of the creation of the national park next<BR>
> door in Arizona, not in Utah.<BR>
<BR>
Since I don't know enough about the situation, I can't comment on it beyond<BR>
this.<BR>
<BR>
> >It's significant that it's there at all, and it's significant that the<BR>
> theory behind it requires certain moral and ethical assumptions to be<BR>
> in place.<<BR>
><BR>
> Yes, there are ethical and moral assumptions which do appear to be<BR>
> different than what exists in the 3I, but my position is that those<BR>
> assumptions don't necessarily hold true in practice today.<BR>
<BR>
When your senate seats are inherited, then I'll believe that they don't hold<BR>
true in practice. Until that point, I see no reason to believe that they do<BR>
not hold true in practice.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously. The basic assumption is that your representatives can be<BR>
cashiered by the population at large. If they do a bad job, or even just an<BR>
unpopular job, they can be drummed out of office. They answer to the public,<BR>
and the public decides the political fates of their leaders.<BR>
<BR>
This is simply not the way the Imperium works.<BR>
<BR>
> The 3I has enough of a free press for an unimportant world to make<BR>
> just as much stink about an injustice as Utah did, and will have just<BR>
> about as much effect.<BR>
<BR>
First, the Imperium does not have a free press. I've never seen any mention<BR>
that there is some sort of freedom of the press at the Imperial level. More<BR>
on that toward the end.<BR>
<BR>
> While it is not a representative body, the Moot does have some<BR>
> indirect influence on the Imperial government. While individual worlds<BR>
> may not have a representative, every subsector presumably has at<BR>
> least one, and this one does, in a sense, represent the wellfare of his<BR>
> subsector.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you for continuing to prove my point, the difficulty you have in<BR>
seeing the difference between the moot and a representative body shows how<BR>
deeply the modern Western version of things has penetrated into the way you<BR>
think. Way back when, I said it was alien to us, and it does certainly seem<BR>
to be alien to you.<BR>
<BR>
The moot does not represent the population. Nobles are not selected on the<BR>
basis of merit, popular elections, nor anything of the sort. They are born<BR>
into the position. Not all nobles appear at the moot. They may or may not<BR>
decide to go to the moot. The responsibilities of the nobility do not<BR>
include appearing at the moot. Nobles don't exist because of the moot.<BR>
Representatives, on the other hand, exist because there is a notion of a<BR>
representational body.<BR>
<BR>
> If a noble is sufficiently unpopuluar he will probably be replaced, as it<BR>
> does his superiors no good to have their sectors or domains look<BR>
> bad because of him.<BR>
<BR>
Where did you get this? The Emperor is the only person in the Imperium who<BR>
can remove a noble title. There are certain very specific crimes which will<BR>
result in the removal of a title. A noble title may be removed for<BR>
incompetence, *but* this is incompetence, not unpopularity.<BR>
<BR>
In short, a noble could be the most unpopular bastard, the people over whom<BR>
he rules can think that he is the most evil bastard who ever lived. If the<BR>
Emperor believes that he is competent, he cannot be removed.<BR>
<BR>
To put this another way, a noble may do things that make him extremely<BR>
unpopular in the eyes of the people, but which are good for the Imperium,<BR>
and he will not be harassed.<BR>
<BR>
> Some sources say that the Archdukes once held near-absolute<BR>
> power and that that power had been watered down after the Civil<BR>
> War.  Strephen, after seeing the mess of the FFW, restored a<BR>
> measure of that power.<BR>
<BR>
Which sources (not that I doubt you, but I'd like to be up to speed on<BR>
this).<BR>
<BR>
> I understood your position, I just chose to ignore it in favor of my own<BR>
> opinions <g>.  That is, of course, why phones have more holes on<BR>
> the talking than on the listening end.<BR>
><BR>
> The Ine Givar, Dulinor, etc. are certainly the bad guys, and the claim<BR>
> that democratic reform is their goal, but numerous political reformists<BR>
> that want stronger local government exist today in the United States<BR>
> that are also obviously bad guys.  The Oklahoma city bombing could<BR>
>easily be an Ine Givar act, for example.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, there's a huge difference because I was addressing your original<BR>
assertion, which was that the culture of the Imperium was much like our own.<BR>
My point was that the people who believe in cultural values which have<BR>
prominence in our culture (specifically that people should be allowed to<BR>
choose their own leaders) are the bad guys. The methods by which they<BR>
achieve those aims are of secondary importance.<BR>
<BR>
No ifs, ands or buts about it, Dulinor and the Ine Givar have a mindset<BR>
which is very close to our own. Much closer than the Imperium. In effect,<BR>
they are modern Westerners dropped into the background of the Third<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm.  Well, guess I better come up with a few similarities:<BR>
><BR>
> Slavery is not tolerated.<BR>
<BR>
Chattel slavery is not tolerated, indentured servitude is.<BR>
<BR>
> Citizens are allowed to travel within and without the Imperial borders.<BR>
<BR>
This was also the case in a hell of a lot of other cultures. Most of them,<BR>
in fact.<BR>
<BR>
> A free press (the TNS) exists.<BR>
<BR>
There is no indication that this is a free press, or that freedom of the<BR>
press is active within the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
> Family relationships exist. (of necessity - the government IS<BR>
> hereditary. Notice I'm not saying what kind of family relationships,<BR>
> although I always assumed they were similar to our own)<BR>
<BR>
Well, all cultures have some sort of family relationships. I would bet that<BR>
you're talking about a nuclear family: a man and woman with naturally born<BR>
children. This looks like the case for the Emperor, but there's just not<BR>
enough info on the other nobles for me to agree one way or the other.<BR>
<BR>
> Illegal drugs exist.<BR>
<BR>
After a fashion, but not for the same reasons as in the modern West (which<BR>
tend to be public health and safety reasons). Psionic drugs are illegal<BR>
because psionics are illegal. Psionics are illegal because, on one hand, the<BR>
people who designed the game thought that it would be better if psionics<BR>
were rare, and on the other because of a misfired psycho-historical<BR>
experiment.<BR>
<BR>
> Weapons are available to the general populace.<BR>
<BR>
On some level, at least. This only conforms to America, however, a small<BR>
part of the West in the late 20th century.<BR>
<BR>
> A cold war is being fought between the 3I and the Zhodani, and to a<BR>
> lesser extent the Solomani. (no longer relevant, but it was in the '80s)<BR>
<BR>
Cold wars have been fought by major states since the concept of large scale<BR>
organized, centralized governments were first formed. Athens and Sparta are<BR>
a fine example.<BR>
<BR>
> Large, privately-owned corporations span the nation. (including fast<BR>
> food chains)<BR>
<BR>
Somewhat similar, but not enough similarity for me to say that both would be<BR>
culturally similar.<BR>
<BR>
> English is the lingua franca.<BR>
<BR>
This much is sheer convenience.<BR>
<BR>
> The 3I is dominated by humans. (and not something else)<BR>
<BR>
Again, sheer convenience. Since we don't have aliens running around on earth<BR>
in the 20th century this becomes something of a moot point.<BR>
<BR>
> On a more abstract level, many of the same things are valued -<BR>
> friendship,<BR>
<BR>
Possibly. I know of at least three different strains of friendship which<BR>
exist in the West in the 20th century, and each is valued on a different<BR>
level. The Ancient Greeks, the Norse, and pretty much every other culture I<BR>
can think of has valued friendship in one form or another.<BR>
<BR>
> money,<BR>
<BR>
Ever since the concept of money was established, people have sought money<BR>
and the material wealth it brings and symbolizes. Ancient Mesopotamia,<BR>
Ancient Greece, etc., lots of people at lots of different times valued<BR>
"money".<BR>
<BR>
> love,<BR>
<BR>
Says who? I've never seen this as something which is valued in the Imperium.<BR>
Still, there are many different strains of love, and various threads have<BR>
been valued by various cultures.<BR>
<BR>
> neat vehicles,<BR>
<BR>
See money, above.<BR>
<BR>
> honor,<BR>
<BR>
Define honor. I'll probably disagree with you that it's particularly valued<BR>
in the West.<BR>
<BR>
> integrity,<BR>
<BR>
Not valued highly at all in America, and is valued to varying degrees in the<BR>
rest of the Western world.<BR>
<BR>
> equality.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting, considering the fact that it's a society which allows<BR>
distinctly unequal societies to exist within its borders and believes that<BR>
some people are fit to rule by the virtue of their birth alone. Still,<BR>
equality is a *huge* category. Disentangle it a bit, and we'll talk. :)<BR>
<BR>
> Similar things are<BR>
> crimes - murder,<BR>
<BR>
Do you want a laundry list of cultures that considered murder to be a crime?<BR>
<BR>
> theft,<BR>
<BR>
See murder, above.<BR>
<BR>
>lying before those in authority,<BR>
<BR>
Perjury is illegal, in America, and I'm not sure about the rest of the West.<BR>
I can lie all I want in front of police, senators, congressmen and even the<BR>
president. I can't recall seeing this addressed in any Traveller materials I<BR>
own.<BR>
<BR>
> betrayal.<BR>
<BR>
Betrayal is not a crime in the West.<BR>
<BR>
> Things that are obviously not similar to our culture:<BR>
> The government form is hereditary and based on nobility.<BR>
<BR>
It's interesting how you draw out your own points, and collapse mine into<BR>
two lines, even after reading two posts to the contrary.<BR>
<BR>
An aristocratic government is in place. Basic fundamental tenets of our own<BR>
culture must be discarded in order for this to be the case.<BR>
<BR>
A theory of equality, any theory of equality, must be tossed out the window<BR>
completely. This is a real no-brainer. Some people are spit out of the womb<BR>
being better equipped to lead than others. Period. A theory of equality<BR>
which, explicitly or implicitly, says otherwise simply cannot exist.<BR>
<BR>
The concept of civic freedom does not exist (and you seem to have a problem<BR>
with this). The citizens of the Imperium do not participate in their<BR>
government. Period. Again, this is a real no brainer. This is crucial and<BR>
fundamental in America, and with my knowledge of the politics of other late<BR>
20th century western cultures, this would seem to by crucial in those<BR>
cultures as well. With all honesty, this is so crucial to American society<BR>
that it's almost baffling to believe that you think a culture can be modeled<BR>
on America (or the West) without it.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, and this is a biggy, the Imperium is a complete *autocracy*.<BR>
Effectively, one man holds power and can damn well use it however he wishes.<BR>
Period. The Emperor answers to no one.<BR>
<BR>
> Internecine wars are allowed (a convention to allow more adventure<BR>
> possibilities).<BR>
<BR>
Which points to fundamental differences in the way human life and human<BR>
liberties are viewed.<BR>
<BR>
Let me also point out that Imperial citizens have no rights, implicitly or<BR>
explicitly, with the exception of a right to be free from one specific form<BR>
of slavery. That's it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2168<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2169<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
Re: Officers & swords<BR>
TML Landgrab<BR>
Re: Mire Run NPC and  stuff<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
Re: Mire Run NPC and  stuff<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Land Grab Details (First In)<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
RE: Jump Governors<BR>
Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:12:22 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 14:54 -0500 23/3/00, Doug Berry wrote:<BR>
> > >I refuse to deny the rumour that Famille Spofulam are also mentioned in ACQ.<BR>
> > >The penguins made us do it.<BR>
> >And Rod and I get blown up in it. :)  *Never* use "Fizzle-Pop" energy<BR>
> >cells. Trust me.<BR>
> <BR>
> And watch out for Gridlore Technology's Superdense Frying Pans, ideal <BR>
> for all kitchen combat situations...<BR>
<BR>
As used by Steven Seagull in _The Penguinman_.<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:11:13 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Here's that list of old RICE and BARD Papers that I culled from the TML a few<BR>
(!) years ago. Notice the way some people took areas, eg. Chris Griffen did the<BR>
Rhylanor Cluster, Mick Bailey the Jewell Group, etc. This makes for a consistent<BR>
history of those spots.<BR>
<BR>
Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
Capon (Lunion/Spinward Marches 2324) - Doug Berry, Nov 1995<BR>
Efate (Regina/Spinward Marches 1803) - Alvin Plummer, Sep 1995<BR>
Emerald (Jewell/Spinward Marches 1106) - Michael Bailey, Oct 1995<BR>
Gerome (Rhylanor/Spinward Marches 2818) - Lewis Roberts, Nov 1995<BR>
Glisten - apart from DGP, who took this, Jeff?<BR>
Hexos (Mora/Spinward Marches 2828) - Lewis Roberts, Jan 1996<BR>
Jae Tellona (Rhylanor: Spinward Marches/2814) - Christopher Griffen, Jul 1995<BR>
Jewell (Jewell/Spinward Marches 1106) - Michael Bailey, Aug 1995<BR>
Lewis (Aramis/Spinward Marches 3107) - Lewis Roberts, Nov 1995<BR>
Lunion (Lunion/Spinward Marches 2124) - Penguin Boy again, Sep 1996 at least,<BR>
promised but yet to be posted (along with the rest of the Lunion Cluster)<BR>
Menorb (Regina: Spinward Marches/1803) - Alvin Plummer, May 1995<BR>
Mertactor (Plankwell/Spinward Marches 1537) - Christopher Griffen, Aug 1995<BR>
Nutema (Rhylanor/Spinward Marches 3112) - Jeff Zeitlin, Jan 1996<BR>
Pequan (Jewell/Spinward Marches 1210) - Michael Bailey, Nov 1995<BR>
Persephone (Lunion:Spinward Marches/2228) - Alvin Plummer, May 1995<BR>
Porozlo (Rhylanor/Spinward Marches 2715) - Christopher Griffen, Sep 1995<BR>
Rhylanor (Rhylanor/Spinward Marches 2716) - Christopher Griffen, Jul 1995,<BR>
although I haven't checked this write-up against the "First In" design example<BR>
Ruby (Jewell/Spinward Marches 1005) - Michael Bailey, Sep 1995<BR>
Tavonni (Vilis/Spinward Marches 1520) - David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson, Jan 1996<BR>
(and earlier!)<BR>
Victoria/Lanth - GDW, JTAS #2, based on _Prisoners of the Sky_ by C.C. MacApp<BR>
(1969).<BR>
<BR>
Note that Alvin wrote up Tirem (Glisten/Spinward Marches 2233) in Nov 1995, but<BR>
later withdrew it as being too non-canonical.<BR>
<BR>
And here's some Efate stuff from the MT2 computer game - info from Marc, I<BR>
believe - some of which Alvin included in his writeup:<BR>
<BR>
"Efate's atmosphere is tainted with destructive gases and chemicals that are<BR>
emitted from a strange, explosive plant life that grows in the planet's swampy<BR>
regions.<BR>
<BR>
A powerful guild of thieves dwells on Efate. They thrive on raiding travellers<BR>
and mercantile caravans between the cities of Efate and Seara.<BR>
<BR>
The same explosive plant that poisons Efate's atmosphere grows on the planet<BR>
Stur [in the Efate system]. This extremely dangerous plant will detonate when an<BR>
unobservent traveller carelessly treads on it."<BR>
<BR>
Deneb<BR>
<BR>
Antra (Antra/Deneb 1808) - Alvin Plummer, Sep 1995<BR>
Borlund (Lamas/Deneb 1406) - Alvin Plummer, Oct 1995<BR>
Dekha (Vincennes/Deneb 1128) - Christopher Griffen, Apr 1996<BR>
Deneb (Usani/Deneb 1925) - Alvin Plummer, May 1995<BR>
HRD (Vincennes/Deneb 1623) - Christopher Griffen, Sep 1995<BR>
Kubishush (Inar/Deneb 0917) - Christopher Griffen, Sep 1995<BR>
Northammon (Vincennes/Deneb 0921) - Christopher Griffen, Sep 1995<BR>
Vincennes (Vincennes/Deneb 1122) - Christopher Griffen, Oct 1995<BR>
<BR>
BARD Papers<BR>
<BR>
Helios (subsector/sector hex) - Paul Walker, Aug 1996<BR>
Spires (subsector/sector hex) - Lewis Roberts, Oct 1996<BR>
Zoraith (Thoezant /sector hex) - Lewis Roberts, Oct 1996<BR>
(sorry, I never updated my notes with the correct location details)<BR>
<BR>
Other<BR>
<BR>
SKRUNGE System, whereabouts unknown - Roderick Darroch Elliott, Jan 1997<BR>
Archipelago System, whereabouts unknown - Roderick Darroch Elliott, Jan 1997<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There may well be more of these - as I said earlier, maybe Jeff Zeitlin could<BR>
fill in the blanks?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:17:24 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Ohfergossakes. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's<BR>
> politicizing my lunch. Especially when I've already politicized<BR>
> my dessert.<BR>
> <BR>
> Look, there are a lot of things I don't like about our<BR>
> generalized-agricultural methods today, but if there's one thing<BR>
> that bugs me even more than the methods, it's the fact that the<BR>
> only solution that anyone's proposed has been to completely<BR>
> destroy the segment of the market entirely.<BR>
<BR>
The problem in this case, other than the fact they're hacking the fins <BR>
off live sharks, tossing them back into the sea to die, slowly, and<BR>
wasting the rest of a perfectly good fish, is that the mania for Shark's<BR>
Fin Soup has lead to catastrophic overfishing, particularly in the<BR>
Pacific, but increasingly, in all oceaninc fisheries.<BR>
<BR>
This isn't politics, it's Ecology 101 (except, of course, to the<BR>
politicians...). There is no solution except stopping the harvest to let<BR>
the populations recover...if they can. Which means, yes, destroying the<BR>
market. <BR>
<BR>
Sorry if that means that some fishermen are out of jobs. We need to help<BR>
them, but the status quo is not viable either. <BR>
<BR>
Managed fisheries ensure that _some_ fishermen get to keep their jobs.<BR>
Dead fisheries mean _all_ of them lose.<BR>
<BR>
Now if someone is up for a career in pelagic shark ranching, they're<BR>
entirely welcome!<BR>
<BR>
We knew next to nothing about the shark populations there, and have<BR>
discovered, belatedly they were a lot more susceptible to overfishing<BR>
than we knew.<BR>
<BR>
This kind of overfishing is _exactly_ what has happened to the East<BR>
Coast swordfish populations.<BR>
<BR>
Fisherman used to pull 100-150 pound swordfish out of that fishery. Now<BR>
they're down to pulling out 35-50 pound fish.<BR>
<BR>
Worse, those 35-40 pound fish are not yet sexually mature, so they are<BR>
doing a double whammy on the fish stocks.<BR>
<BR>
The same thing has happened to any number of (in fact _most_) the<BR>
fisheries around the world, mostly because we've become really good at<BR>
industrial-scale harvesting, while our mind-set (and legal systems) are<BR>
still, effectively, at the  hunter-gatherer level.<BR>
<BR>
"The sea is endless" <BR>
<BR>
"There are always more fish in the sea" <BR>
<BR>
No, there aren't, not when you have agricultural and sewage runoff<BR>
turning large sections of coastal waters into anaerobic dead zones (like<BR>
the once hugely productive Long Island Sound), we're draining the<BR>
coastal lowlands as fast as we can for suburbs and Wal-Marts without<BR>
knowing that they were really, REALLY important for maintaining livable<BR>
ecosystems for large numbers of species, and you have factory trawlers<BR>
that catch everything living above a few inches in size in areas that<BR>
amount to many cubic miles of ocean, wrecking the seabottoms (another<BR>
place that turns out to be a lot more important than we thought) as they<BR>
go.<BR>
<BR>
Feed a man a fish, you feed him for a day.<BR>
Teach him to fish, you feed him for life.<BR>
Teach him to use factory ships, his descendents ask 'Where are all the<BR>
fish?'<BR>
<BR>
obTrav<BR>
<BR>
By the time we reach the stars, I _hope_ we've learned a few lessons<BR>
about this sort of stuff. <BR>
<BR>
Is the Mercantilist Imperium sufficiently versed in the Long View that<BR>
they realize that ecologies are not endlessly adaptable, abusable and<BR>
harvestable, and that limits have to be placed to ensure continued<BR>
productivity? <BR>
<BR>
Or are all those desert, industrial, or poor worlds out there the result<BR>
of the collision of TL-15 harvesting methods with TL-0 planning? <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:25:07 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
>In the Lensman books, E.E. Smith has the Patrol having to dig out<BR>
>Boskonian elements from buildings in the middle of a city.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>The "public" sections of the building are a<BR>
>shell around a *major* fortification.<BR>
<BR>
You forgot to tell people that the "building" upped and flew away when the end<BR>
of the battle became too hot...! (and jumped - was it a cruiser or<BR>
dreadnought?!!)<BR>
<BR>
(This is one of my favorite stand-by scenarios to pull out on the PCs if they<BR>
get too close to a big organised crime boss - I haven't pulled it out yet, but<BR>
one day...)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:29:15 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Adding to my Traveller collection<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Since no-one has commented on "Lee's Guide", I thought I better jump in...<BR>
<BR>
BUY THIS BOOK!<BR>
<BR>
It has a heap of interesting adventures that are generic but with *a selection*<BR>
of recommended settings in the Marches (I actually ran the Unifoods hunting<BR>
scenario on Tavonni) and, from memory, in the Sol Rim.<BR>
<BR>
Certainly on a par with the stuff that the Keith's produced, and well worth<BR>
purchasing.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:34:12 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Officers & swords<BR>
<BR>
<< Or - why officers kept their swords when muskets dominated the battlefield.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I think the reason officers kept their swords is because they give <BR>
you something cool to wave around and inspire the men (and they still have <BR>
some uses well into the 19th century). The guys who keep the troops in the <BR>
line and prevent them from running are the NCOs with their spontoons (a <BR>
short, spear-like weapon). <BR>
<BR>
Mainly what keeps troops from hot-footing it is training and discipline, and <BR>
a desire not to let their comrades down, and a feeling that if you run the <BR>
enemy cavalry will run you down and skewer you for sure.<BR>
<BR>
Deserting on the march is a matter for the provost martial's men. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:39:04 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to try my hand at 876-574. do you know of any references to it in a <BR>
CT book? I think the only thing I've seen on it, is in GT:BTC?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Mike McKeown<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:52:35 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mire Run NPC and  stuff<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> PPS What is the half-life of californium ?<BR>
<BR>
800 years<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>
"For when your message must get through"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:40:47 -0600<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The change isn't going to happen overnight. Historically, it seems<BR>
> to me that in the US, when a new highway gets built, it's the people<BR>
> in the path of the *new* one who get more upset (because their towns<BR>
> are suddenly more popular) than the people who have now been relegated<BR>
> to "backwater" status.<BR>
<BR>
    The key here is that "the people" is not the same group as "the business<BR>
owners".  The former group looks at entirely different issues, and rarely pays<BR>
attention to the long term effects until said effects reach the stage of<BR>
significant change.  "The people" in the newly-created backwater rarely even<BR>
know what hit 'em at first.<BR>
    Case in point, Pittsfield IL.  It used to be just east of the confluence<BR>
of US 36 & 54, and thus saw a pretty decent amount of trucking and other<BR>
traffic because there weren't many alternatives through that area if you were<BR>
headed straight east-west.  Mind you, this place was never a tourist mecca,<BR>
but it saw enough income from those passing through to be in better shape than<BR>
most towns of its size that I've seen in this part of the country.  Back when<BR>
I lived there (roughly '76-'79), there was a lot of talk about the extension<BR>
of I-72 along US 36, and what it might do for the town.<BR>
    They extended it, all right, about a decade or so ago...several miles<BR>
*north* of the town, rerouting 36 in the process.  There are now two Pittfield<BR>
exits, one in the middle of BFE and one where 54 meets up.  While 54 still<BR>
goes through town, it was always the lesser of the two routes, and the town is<BR>
hurting badly as a result.  (I'm curiously awaiting the 2000 Census results to<BR>
see what effect it's had on the town's population.)  The business owners,<BR>
spotting the handwriting on the wall, cut back where they could.  Others have<BR>
simply gone under/left town.  There used to be a small trucking terminal, for<BR>
instance.  (The single biggest employer shut down in the mid-80's, which<BR>
didn't help any either, but that was unrelated to the highway.)  The city is<BR>
working its butt off to try to bring in more industry, and would probably be<BR>
even worse off if it weren't for the national economy, but they're fighting an<BR>
uphill battle.  (And the signs are there, if you read the town's webpage<BR>
carefully.)<BR>
    According to my parents, who visited friends there last summer, hardly<BR>
anyone is pleased with the reduction of traffic through the town (my Mom, the<BR>
sci-fi fan, described it as "the land time forgot").  The only "the people"<BR>
who got upset at the time the highway was built were, in fact, the farmers who<BR>
lost land over it.  I guess in practical terms, what it means is that nobody<BR>
much gives a toot until it affects them personally...at which time it's a<BR>
little late to scream.  But the effects are there, and demonstrable.<BR>
<BR>
    Changing the Xboat routes might not have quite the same effect...the xboat<BR>
stations aren't exactly the centers of commerce...but it will certainly have<BR>
some.  The smaller systems that get them will gain an economic boost from the<BR>
stations, and those that lose them will likewise lose, especially if a<BR>
mid-to-low-pop system goes from being a node (3+ Xboat routes meet) to<BR>
nothing.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:02:55 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> >As everyone seems to be on a Germanic slant....<BR>
> >nb:  this is not intended to offend !!<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT<BR>
> ><BR>
> > The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English<BR>
> > will be adopted as the official language of the EU rather than German,<BR>
> > which was to have been the other possibility.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > As part of these negotiations Her Majesty's Government conceded that the<BR>
> > rules of English Spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted<BR>
> > a five year phase-in plan that would be known as Euro-English.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In the first year, the soft 'c' will be replaced.  Sertainly this will<BR>
> > make the sivil servants jump with joy.   The hard 'c' will be dropped in<BR>
> > favour of the more sensible 'k'.  This should klear up konfusion and<BR>
> > keyboards kan have one less letter.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the<BR>
> > troublesome 'ph' will be replaced by 'f'.  This will make words like<BR>
> > 'fotograf' 20% shorter.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to<BR>
> > reach the stage whereby more komplikated changes are made possible.<BR>
> > Governments will enkorage the removal of double leters which have always<BR>
> > ben a deterent to akurate speling.  Also al wil agre that the horible mes<BR>
> > of the silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > By the 4th yar peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replacing 'th' with<BR>
> > 'z ' and 'w' with the more apropriat 'v'.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > During ze fifz yar ze unesesary 'o' can be dropd from vords kontaining<BR>
> > 'ou' and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of<BR>
> > leters.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > After ziz fifx yar ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.  Zer vil be no<BR>
> > mor trubl or difikultis and evri vun vil find it ezi tu onderstand ech<BR>
> > ozer. Zen ze drem vil finaly kum tru.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> ---<BR>
> Volker A. Greimann<BR>
> greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
That's excellent, Volker.<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:52:35 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mire Run NPC and  stuff<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> PPS What is the half-life of californium ?<BR>
<BR>
800 years<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>
"For when your message must get through"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:41:18 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote, among other things:<BR>
> An aristocratic government is in place. Basic fundamental tenets of our own<BR>
> culture must be discarded in order for this to be the case.<BR>
> <BR>
> A theory of equality, any theory of equality, must be tossed out the window<BR>
> completely. This is a real no-brainer. Some people are spit out of the womb<BR>
> being better equipped to lead than others. Period. A theory of equality<BR>
> which, explicitly or implicitly, says otherwise simply cannot exist.<BR>
<BR>
I disagree. I might support a hereditary aristocracy quite happily if<BR>
I could be assured that, once spit from the womb, the aristocrats were<BR>
going to be trained heavily through their entire lives to be good<BR>
leaders, and if there were some sort of semi-public auditing of the <BR>
training process.<BR>
<BR>
Thus, in the system described above, some people would be spit out<BR>
of the womb into a position where they will be trained to be better<BR>
equipped to lead than others, and that's their lot in life - power<BR>
*and* responsibility.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I just re-read _Oath of Fealty_, so I might be a little<BR>
biased here.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:43:31 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Land Grab Details (First In)<BR>
<BR>
It's a great book...I highly recommend it...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:44:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> While I accept the blame for incomplete and ineffective > communication, I<BR>
do *not* appreciate the moral overtones people<BR>
> have tacked on to my statements so as to more effectively paint me<BR>
> as some sort of bigot.<BR>
<BR>
Who has done this, Walt? I've been following this discussion since it<BR>
started, I have added to it, and I've seen nobody attaching "moral<BR>
overtones" on to your statements.<BR>
<BR>
> The purpose of my initial post was to point out that while an unusual<BR>
> culture held by a couple hundred people on an isolated Pacific island<BR>
> might be interesting, such a culture should not be used - at least not<BR>
> without a lot of thought -  as a basis for a planet of millions. Growing<BR>
> the culture that much would require massive change, and chances<BR>
> are the changes to the culture in the process would make it<BR>
> unrecognizable.<BR>
<BR>
Then why didn't you just say so? With all honesty, you picked an extremely<BR>
odd way to say what you wanted to say.<BR>
<BR>
> The examples presented - the culture where paranoia was a virtue,<BR>
> and the one where megalomania was a heroic ideal - *may* be<BR>
> dysfunctional *solely* in terms of their ability to manage the social<BR>
> interactions of an entire Traveller-setting planet. They may be<BR>
> effective at managing the affairs of a couple small tribes, I'm<BR>
> wondering if they'd make sense in context of a million people or so.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe, maybe not. You've brought nothing to the table concerning how to go<BR>
about doing this. My post was a request for you to flesh out what it is that<BR>
you're talking about.<BR>
<BR>
> So yes, being strongly paranoid may be "normal" in the context of<BR>
> a certain small village culture.<BR>
<BR>
It may also be "normal" in really big cities in the Northeast of the United<BR>
States of America as well.<BR>
<BR>
> Cultural Relativism, in the general sense of the term, tries to label<BR>
> every cultural norm as equivalent to every other culture's norms, I'm<BR>
> saying that certain cultural norms will be more likely to work on large ><BR>
scales than others.<BR>
<BR>
Most likely true, but as I asked you before, how do you propose going about<BR>
doing this?<BR>
<BR>
> If a culture has only ever been tried on a small scale, then there is<BR>
> little evidence that it scales upwards. Certain other Earth cultures<BR>
> (Western, Indian, Asian, and yes, I know, have fun with nitpicking<BR>
> about how many thousands of cultures there are in each now) have<BR>
> been tried on larger scales,<BR>
<BR>
Yes, and as I said in my previous post, a very strong case can be made that<BR>
these cultures, in a general sense, were lucky enough to be in locations<BR>
that were extremely good for their growth (see "Guns, Germs and Steel" by<BR>
Diamond).<BR>
<BR>
> and IMO are more likely models for the kinds of features we'll see in<BR>
> planetary cultures than a small string of fishing villages or a group in<BR>
> the alt.sex heirarchy on UseNet.<BR>
><BR>
> This isn't to say there won't be changes we don't see coming, and<BR>
> this isn't to say every Startown should be a choice between New<BR>
> York City, Shanghai or Calcutta. It's just a call to think a bit before<BR>
> trying to come up with the Planet of the BDSM Culture, or some<BR>
> other attempt to take a fringe or a village and make it into a planet.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, so, how do you propose dealing with the situation?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:45:20 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Jump Governors<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>* Abstract: Jump Governor begins ...<BR>
<BR>
OK, Peter, put me down as a 4 for that one... (excellent work - I'm still<BR>
chuckling)<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:50:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hi!<BR>
> <BR>
> One of my players just called and told me he didn't like the Traveller<BR>
> Universe I use in the campaign... which is basically 3I at 1115.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm still not sure if this has actually happened...<BR>
<BR>
It's not surprising, there are a number of us out there. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:00:36 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I disagree. I might support a hereditary aristocracy quite happily if<BR>
> I could be assured that, once spit from the womb, the aristocrats<BR>
> were going to be trained heavily through their entire lives to be good<BR>
> leaders, and if there were some sort of semi-public auditing of the<BR>
> training process.<BR>
<BR>
Then you're not actually disagreeing. What you're saying is that you might<BR>
be swayed by an argument to the contrary, not that you're from a society in<BR>
which this is the case.<BR>
<BR>
I might add that you're assuming a semi-public auditing of the training<BR>
process. You're still not willing to give up on the ability of the people to<BR>
cashier their rulers, or in this case potential rulers.<BR>
<BR>
> Thus, in the system described above, some people would be spit out<BR>
> of the womb into a position where they will be trained to be better<BR>
> equipped to lead than others, and that's their lot in life - power<BR>
> *and* responsibility.<BR>
<BR>
In the situation described above, which sounds more like the ability to rise<BR>
to power by way of *merit*, modified by the public in some fashion.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, I just re-read _Oath of Fealty_, so I might be a little<BR>
> biased here.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it's possible. Being unfamiliar with the work, I can't comment<BR>
either way.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:02:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>If anybody comes up with a decent means of *automatically* producing<BR>
>"welded" link mail in "sheets", they'll get rich.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Such machines and at least one such company in the US exists, Whiting and<BR>
Davis out of Delaware.  Years ago they sent me free samples of what they<BR>
called industrial ring mesh.  Stainless steel 4 in 1 pattern welded chain<BR>
mail with approximately 1/10" interior diameter rings which they sell in<BR>
sheets like fabric.  They have been  around a long time, every once in a<BR>
while I will find an antique chain mail purse in an antique store, the best<BR>
ones are usually Whiting and Davis.  There are companies in Europe and Korea<BR>
that make chain mail as well.  The product is usually butchers gloves and<BR>
such.<BR>
<BR>
Back when I was working in Houston for oil companies just after the bottom<BR>
fell out I had a friend who swore that he knew where a chain mail machine<BR>
was available from a gone bust oil field service company.  Reportedly they<BR>
used the mail to form strainer baskets on "shale shakers" for drilling rigs.<BR>
To hear him tell it the machine was brand new and had never been uncrated.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:11:38 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans [mailto:semo@pil.net]<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I concede that the 3I's governmental system is different, even though<BR>
I've tried to point out that it's not as different from ours (the US's at<BR>
least) as we would like to think.<BR>
On to newer ground (don't want to bore the list by expounding further on the<BR>
same points).<BR>
<BR>
>First, the Imperium does not have a free press. I've never seen any mention<BR>
that there is some sort of freedom of the press at the Imperial level. More<BR>
on that toward the end.<<BR>
>There is no indication that this is a free press, or that freedom of the<BR>
press is active within the Imperium.<<BR>
<BR>
The TNS in Survival Margin (the MT/TNE transition product) continues to post<BR>
new reports even after the Imperial Government issues an order to cease<BR>
transmissions (of course, they're spreading the Virus in the process, but<BR>
that's beside the point).  Several other transmissions in Survival Margin<BR>
include material that does appear to run counter to the government's ideals<BR>
(Lucan, at the time) when they were published.  These would seem to be<BR>
indications that the TNS is a free press (or at least that it was during the<BR>
Rebellion).  I'll bring some specifics up once I have time to look them up.<BR>
<BR>
> Some sources say that the Archdukes once held near-absolute<BR>
> power and that that power had been watered down after the Civil<BR>
> War.  Strephen, after seeing the mess of the FFW, restored a<BR>
> measure of that power.<BR>
<BR>
>Which sources (not that I doubt you, but I'd like to be up to speed on<BR>
this).<<BR>
<BR>
Well, I believe GURPS: Traveller makes the clearest mention of this.  It is<BR>
also present in some of the "Rebel Reporter" reports in the Traveller<BR>
Digest, and possibly in some T:NE material, IIRC.  I will look for them and<BR>
get back to you on that.<BR>
<BR>
> Slavery is not tolerated.<BR>
Chattel slavery is not tolerated, indentured servitude is.<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall any examples of indentured servitude in the Imperium.  Care<BR>
to provide some examples?  I do remember one world in Trojan's Reach that<BR>
had a form of indentured servitude - Halka?  <BR>
<BR>
> Citizens are allowed to travel within and without the Imperial borders.<BR>
This was also the case in a hell of a lot of other cultures. Most of them,<BR>
in fact.<<BR>
<BR>
And not true of many others.<BR>
<BR>
> Family relationships exist. (of necessity - the government IS<BR>
> hereditary. Notice I'm not saying what kind of family relationships,<BR>
> although I always assumed they were similar to our own)<BR>
>Well, all cultures have some sort of family relationships. I would bet that<BR>
you're talking about a nuclear family: a man and woman with naturally born<BR>
children. This looks like the case for the Emperor, but there's just not<BR>
enough info on the other nobles for me to agree one way or the other.<<BR>
<BR>
Well, if it's true for the Emperor, it may be true for much of the nobility,<BR>
as I would think they would tend to follow the practices of the Imperial<BR>
court.  <BR>
Your right though, really the only examples we have are the Emperor, Dulinor<BR>
(who's brother is in a high position and who's daughter is now Archduchess),<BR>
and Norris.  And Norris' current family is a gender-reversed clone.<BR>
<BR>
> Illegal drugs exist.<BR>
>After a fashion, but not for the same reasons as in the modern West (which<BR>
tend to be public health and safety reasons). Psionic drugs are illegal<BR>
because psionics are illegal. Psionics are illegal because, on one hand, the<BR>
people who designed the game thought that it would be better if psionics<BR>
were rare, and on the other because of a misfired psycho-historical<BR>
experiment.<<BR>
<BR>
There's another possiblity - psionics are illegal because they are not a<BR>
prevalent influence on our own culture, and the Imperium resembles ours in<BR>
the absence of psionic powers.<BR>
<BR>
> Weapons are available to the general populace.<BR>
On some level, at least. This only conforms to America, however, a small<BR>
part of the West in the late 20th century.<<BR>
<BR>
I am probably showing my Americo-centro views on many of these points.  But<BR>
the designers of the game live in America, so maybe this one is a valid<BR>
point.  <BR>
<BR>
> A cold war is being fought between the 3I and the Zhodani, and to a<BR>
> lesser extent the Solomani. (no longer relevant, but it was in the '80s)<BR>
Cold wars have been fought by major states since the concept of large scale<BR>
organized, centralized governments were first formed. Athens and Sparta are<BR>
a fine example.<<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  I guess I'm no historian.  The Cold War was a major influence in<BR>
America in the 70s and 80s, and that's when the game was designed, so it<BR>
seems a likely paralell.<BR>
<BR>
> Large, privately-owned corporations span the nation. (including fast<BR>
> food chains)<BR>
Somewhat similar, but not enough similarity for me to say that both would be<BR>
culturally similar.<<BR>
<BR>
Ah, come on.  Astroburgers has "20th century culture" written all over it,<BR>
even in the lame name.<BR>
<BR>
> English is the lingua franca.<BR>
This much is sheer convenience.<<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, probably right.  But what implications does that have?  Languages have<BR>
their own effects on culture.<BR>
<BR>
> The 3I is dominated by humans. (and not something else)<BR>
Again, sheer convenience. Since we don't have aliens running around on earth<BR>
in the 20th century this becomes something of a moot point.<<BR>
<BR>
But it does show a humano-centric viewpoint that I find western (perhaps<BR>
even American) in nature.  "Of course humans dominate it.  We've always been<BR>
the best."<BR>
<BR>
> On a more abstract level, many of the same things are valued -<BR>
> friendship,<BR>
Possibly. I know of at least three different strains of friendship which<BR>
exist in the West in the 20th century, and each is valued on a different<BR>
level. The Ancient Greeks, the Norse, and pretty much every other culture I<BR>
can think of has valued friendship in one form or another.<<BR>
<BR>
True, I suppose it is a rather common human value.<BR>
<BR>
> money,<BR>
Ever since the concept of money was established, people have sought money<BR>
and the material wealth it brings and symbolizes. Ancient Mesopotamia,<BR>
Ancient Greece, etc., lots of people at lots of different times valued<BR>
"money".<<BR>
<BR>
As a colorary, the Imperium seems to be in rather prosperous economic times,<BR>
as is the West currently.  A one-ship tramp merchant can carve out a living<BR>
and still have time to go adventuring.<BR>
<BR>
> love,<BR>
Says who? I've never seen this as something which is valued in the Imperium.<BR>
Still, there are many different strains of love, and various threads have<BR>
been valued by various cultures.<<BR>
<BR>
Strephon valued love.  Again in Survival Margin, he mourns the death of his<BR>
wife and daughter.<BR>
<BR>
> neat vehicles,<BR>
See money, above.<<BR>
<BR>
That was a throw-away anyway.  I think the American fascination with<BR>
Automobiles (which has only existed in this century) is a good parallel with<BR>
how players typically feel about their ships.<BR>
<BR>
> honor,<BR>
Define honor. I'll probably disagree with you that it's particularly valued<BR>
in the West.<<BR>
<BR>
On second thought, let's leave the definition of honor to another thread.<BR>
<BR>
> integrity,<BR>
Not valued highly at all in America, and is valued to varying degrees in the<BR>
rest of the Western world.<<BR>
<BR>
I disagree.  Yes the politicians get away with things they probably<BR>
shouldn't, but I think your average American greatly values integrity, and<BR>
their criticism of said politicians is a symptom of that.  It was pointed<BR>
out that during the recent impeachment crises, President Clinton's job<BR>
approval rating remained staggeringly high.  What was not pointed out is<BR>
that polls that showed American's opinion of the man himself were dismal at<BR>
best.  When he showed himself someone lacking in integrity, the people were<BR>
willing to let him stay becaue the country was doing well, but no longer<BR>
respected him as a person.<BR>
<BR>
> equality.<BR>
Interesting, considering the fact that it's a society which allows<BR>
distinctly unequal societies to exist within its borders and believes that<BR>
some people are fit to rule by the virtue of their birth alone. Still,<BR>
equality is a *huge* category. Disentangle it a bit, and we'll talk. :)<<BR>
<BR>
I suppose to be more specific, immunity from slavery.  <BR>
<BR>
> Similar things are<BR>
> crimes - murder,<BR>
Do you want a laundry list of cultures that considered murder to be a<BR>
crime?<<BR>
<BR>
No, not particularly.  It is a similarity, though.<BR>
<BR>
> theft,<BR>
See murder, above.<BR>
<BR>
Ditto.<BR>
<BR>
>lying before those in authority,<BR>
Perjury is illegal, in America, and I'm not sure about the rest of the West.<BR>
I can lie all I want in front of police, senators, congressmen and even the<BR>
president. I can't recall seeing this addressed in any Traveller materials I<BR>
own.<<BR>
<BR>
I'll look for a source on that (that perjury is illegal in the Imperium).<BR>
<BR>
> betrayal.<BR>
Betrayal is not a crime in the West.<<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps not, but it is considered morally reprehensible.<BR>
<BR>
*big snip here*<BR>
>Finally, and this is a biggy, the Imperium is a complete *autocracy*.<BR>
Effectively, one man holds power and can damn well use it however he wishes.<BR>
Period. The Emperor answers to no one.<<BR>
<BR>
Cleon the Mad might make a good counter case of this.  That was a case where<BR>
the Emperor's policies were his downfall, and it was the Moot that was the<BR>
cause.  Of course, the fact that Lucan was never removed or assassinated is<BR>
a good support for it.<BR>
<BR>
> Internecine wars are allowed (a convention to allow more adventure<BR>
> possibilities).<BR>
Which points to fundamental differences in the way human life and human<BR>
liberties are viewed.<<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.  That is a valid point.  <BR>
<BR>
>Let me also point out that Imperial citizens have no rights, implicitly or<BR>
explicitly, with the exception of a right to be free from one specific form<BR>
of slavery. That's it.<<BR>
<BR>
The concept of "Nobilese Oligese", or however it's spelled, gives the<BR>
implicit right that the citizens of the Imperium have competant government.<BR>
This is a big concept in the T:NE materials, and how the Rebellion was a<BR>
betrayal of the people.  <BR>
Other than that you do appear to be correct.<BR>
<BR>
Hmph, this thing is still too long.  Oh well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2169<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2170<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
Re: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Re: Clone<BR>
Technocracy Movement<BR>
Re: Mire Run NPC and stuff<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Sample J6 mail net<BR>
Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Telegenic Wars<BR>
RE: For the world desingers..<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:20:52 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Volker said:<BR>
>>these worlds that have already been "done" or ask the original authors to<BR>
>>regress the worlds to 1120?<BR>
><BR>
>Hmm, the data needn?t be regressed, it can be found in MT?s Imperial<BR>
>Encyclopedia.<BR>
>The MT data should also be right for 4 yrs. later.<BR>
<BR>
Er, when I said "the worlds" I didn't mean the data, I just meant they would<BR>
need to remove or modify any post-Rebellion history up to 1120. And this doesn't<BR>
preclude them from adding more current-world (1120) info, either expanding on<BR>
what is there or creating a new "recent history" from 1116 to 1120!<BR>
<BR>
...like I have to do with Tavonni (forex, my TNE notes have the 'port built in<BR>
1117, whereas BtC doesn't even have a population in 1120!).<BR>
<BR>
Can I suggest that a write-up should include the following elements:<BR>
<BR>
Early History (pre-5FW, or pre-1100)<BR>
Modern History (post 5FW or 1100)<BR>
(or maybe a combined history, if it is too short for such a treatment)<BR>
System Description, incl the traveller's view of the mainworld (descriptive)<BR>
Society, esp. the "steet-level" view as already mentioned on the TML<BR>
Government, esp. the level that travellers are likely to encounter<BR>
Local Corporations<BR>
System UWPs (ie the dry UWP data)<BR>
Adventure Nuggets (optional, but make the world more likely to be used by a GM)<BR>
Designer's Notes (optional)<BR>
Bibliography (optional)<BR>
Ref's Notes, containing the hidden details likely to trip up the PCs (optional)<BR>
<BR>
Have I missed anything (other than the Lib Data entry and DGP one-page data<BR>
sheet)?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:27:27 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Here's something else to think about:<BR>
<BR>
I won't quibble that many things about the Third Imperium are different from<BR>
our own culture in outward appearance, but do they make a practical<BR>
difference to the average Imperial citizen?<BR>
Does the average citizen care that he is living a prosperous life by the<BR>
grace of his nobles rather than because of a legal document?<BR>
Are there any significant barriers in the Third Imperium to living a<BR>
lifestyle similar to our own, here in Western countries at the end of the<BR>
20th Century?<BR>
<BR>
If there are not, then could the culture of the Third Imperium be described<BR>
as similar to our own on a practical level?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:56:00 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:08 AM 3/23/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Moody, Danny M. writes:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Revolutions are usually a horrible mess (and deservedly unpopular) unless<BR>
>there exists a credible authority to take control of the remains.  Any<BR>
>revolution which overthrows the current government without having something<BR>
>ready to take control, which has credibility with the governed people, is<BR>
>going to result in chaos (look at the french revolution).<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
That's one of my many problems with the entire rebellion in Megatraveller. <BR>
It's impossible for me to believe that Dulinor thought for a moment that <BR>
his claim of being Emperor by Right of Assassination would be upheld by the <BR>
Moot. Given that he couldn't become Emperor, the only reason for his <BR>
actions is that he was seperating the Domain of Ileish from the rest of the <BR>
Imperium, and shooting Strephon was a way to throw the Imperium into <BR>
confusion while he did it.<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:37:57 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Dom added to Doug's comment:<BR>
>> >We changed our minds in mid-stream, and this is one of the rough bits.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I'm glad you did. It made Strephon a far more tragic character.<BR>
><BR>
>Agreed. It made Arrival Vengeance one of the bits of Traveller that<BR>
>really had an impact on me emotionally when reading it.<BR>
<BR>
For me, Arrival Vengance is one of *the* great Trav campaigns, tragic and<BR>
poignant. Touring through the remains of the once-great Imperium, seeing the<BR>
fragments shatter and collapse further, and finally climaxing with the chapter<BR>
that is really the subtext of the whole adventure: "Shadow of Greatness".<BR>
<BR>
I've always read Strephon as a Prince Charles sort of character. Someone with<BR>
different ideas, wanting to serve his people, wanting to reform things,<BR>
frustrated by a traditional hide-bound system that forces him into certain<BR>
roles, etc etc. And in Strephon's case, in the end unable to change the system<BR>
quickly enough to avert a disaster.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 04:05:06 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Technocracy Movement<BR>
<BR>
At 10:22 AM 3/23/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>No, that's not quite what I'm talking about. What I mean is the Technocracy<BR>
>movement, which was largely a depression-era political movement. The idea<BR>
>was, more or less, to let the scientists and technicians rule the world. It<BR>
>achieved some degree of popularity before Roosevelt pulled the rug out from<BR>
>under it with the New Deal. By about World War II they became a footnote.<BR>
><BR>
>People will pay attention to all sorts of bizarre notions when they're<BR>
>starving in the street. For what it's worth, the group has managed to stay<BR>
>in existence and maintains a website, I think it's<BR>
>http://www.technocracy.com, but it might be org. Reading some of the oldest<BR>
>source material is pretty interesting. It's along the lines of<BR>
>techno-fascism.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip from www.technocracy.org><BR>
Beware of imitations! There are other web pages around that are using the <BR>
word improperly. Technocracy is not government bureaucrats who use <BR>
technology, nor is it a technological police state, nor is it misusing <BR>
technology to further corporate profits, nor is it a shadowy villian in a <BR>
role-playing game.<BR>
</snip from www.technocracy.org><BR>
<BR>
It's nice to know that our obscure group can torque off their obscure group.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The site has plenty of rhetoric for the most common government type <BR>
in the Imperium.<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
       "I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master<BR>
  IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:57:25 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Mire Run NPC and stuff<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>> PPS What is the half-life of californium ?<BR>
><BR>
>800 years<BR>
<BR>
<sigh><BR>
<BR>
And here was I hoping they'd kill off ALL the cast of 90210 long before that...<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:03:02 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> I am not taking any particular culture<BR>
> to task, and I am not attempting to defend anyone else's attempt to <BR>
> paint their own culture as Wonderful and everyone else's as Crap.<BR>
> The purpose of my initial post was to point out that while an unusual<BR>
> culture held by a couple hundred people on an isolated Pacific island<BR>
> might be interesting, such a culture should not be used - at least not<BR>
> without a lot of thought -  as a basis for a planet of millions.<BR>
<BR>
But most planets in Traveller don't have _millions_ of people.<BR>
A Traveller planet (2d-2 Pop) is as likely to have a population<BR>
of less than 100,000 people as to have a population of 1 million<BR>
or more and as likely to have a population of less than 1,000<BR>
as to have a population 0f 100,000,000 or more. Under these<BR>
circumstances it is quite plausible than some (many?) Traveller<BR>
planets do have cultures that would prove unworkable if their<BR>
population were to increase be a factor of 10 or 100. <BR>
<BR>
So what?<BR>
<BR>
> The examples presented - the culture where paranoia was a virtue,<BR>
> and the one where megalomania was a heroic ideal - *may* be <BR>
> dysfunctional *solely* in terms of their ability to manage the social<BR>
> interactions of an entire Traveller-setting planet. They may be effective<BR>
> at managing the affairs of a couple small tribes, I'm wondering if they'd<BR>
> make sense in context of a million people or so.<BR>
<BR>
Many Traveller planets will have populations that _are_ "a<BR>
couple of small tribes." The Spinward Marches have (by my count)<BR>
92 worlds with Pop 3 or less (0 - 9,999 people).<BR>
<BR>
> So yes, being strongly paranoid may be "normal" in the context of<BR>
> a certain small village culture. Cultural Relativism, in the general<BR>
> sense of the term, tries to label every cultural norm as equivalent to every <BR>
> other culture's norms, I'm saying that certain cultural norms will be more <BR>
> likely to work on large scales than others. Under the stresses of covering<BR>
> a small group, the culture may persist, the stresses of covering a larger <BR>
> group may bring out inconsistencies and fatal flaws in that culture and <BR>
> shatter it.<BR>
<BR>
I would tend to agree with this statement but the facts of<BR>
Traveller world generation clearly indicate that many planets<BR>
will be small groups.<BR>
<BR>
> If a culture has only ever been tried on a small scale, then there is<BR>
> little evidence that it scales upwards.<BR>
<BR>
Nor is there evidence that it does not scale upwards.<BR>
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.<BR>
<BR>
> This isn't to say there won't be changes we don't see coming, and this<BR>
> isn't to say every Startown should be a choice between New York City,<BR>
> Shanghai or Calcutta. It's just a call to think a bit before trying to come<BR>
> up with the Planet of the BDSM Culture, or some other attempt to<BR>
> take a fringe or a village and make it into a planet.<BR>
<BR>
Why not?<BR>
<BR>
Many planets will have the same population as fringes or<BR>
villages do today.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:25:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
- --0-2078917053-953861147=:3841<BR>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII<BR>
<BR>
My goals with this were (a) avoid insulting anyone important, and (b) get<BR>
information between important places as fast as possible.  Improvement<BR>
in transit speeds is usually 30-50% over any possible X-boat routes (I<BR>
don't have the actual routes, so its possible there's some really horrible<BR>
routes).  Comments?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --0-2078917053-953861147=:3841<BR>
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII<BR>
Content-Description: J6routes<BR>
<BR>
I went through the Spinward Marches and Deneb, constructing reasonable J6<BR>
    routes.  Non-imperial worlds were left out with the exception of<BR>
    a client state in deneb<BR>
<BR>
J-6 Routes in the Spinward Marches:<BR>
    1106Jewell/1705Efate    (1 vs 2 jumps)<BR>
    1705Efate/1910Regina    (1 vs 2 jumps)<BR>
    1910Regina/2313Echiste/2716Rhylanor (2 vs 3 jumps)<BR>
    2716Rhylanor/2215Quopist/1119Vilis/1719Lanth (3 vs 5 jumps)<BR>
    2716Rhylanor/2620Natoko/2124Lunion (2 vs 3 jumps)<BR>
    2716Rhylanor/2620Natoko/3124Mora (2 vs 3 jumps)<BR>
    2716Rhylanor/3118Cipatwe/0316Magash (J-4; Deneb)<BR>
    3124Mora/3029Pallique (1 vs 2 jumps)<BR>
    3124Mora/3130/3235Trin.  There is a deep space relay station at 3130,<BR>
        served by J-1 fuel tankers from Pallique.  2 vs 4 jumps.<BR>
    3124Mora/0525Sejmal/1122Vincennes (Deneb)<BR>
    3124Mora/0525Sejmal/1128Dekha (Deneb)<BR>
    3029Pallique/2733Edenelt/3235Trin.  Mostly a service to Edenelt and Aki.<BR>
    3029Pallique/2633/Glisten.  2633 is a deep space relay served from Edenelt.<BR>
        2 vs 4 jumps<BR>
    2733Edenelt/2035Aki.<BR>
    3235Trin/2637Robin/2036Glisten.  <BR>
    3235Trin/0531Briaxis/1128Dekha (Deneb)<BR>
    3235Trin/0633Preslin/1135Lilad (Deneb)<BR>
<BR>
J-6 Routes in Deneb: <BR>
    0101Marz/0406Pretoria/0311Fennec/0316Magash<BR>
    1808Antra/1814Karst/2414Jurbu/3015Atadl<BR>
    1808Antra/1814Karst/1417Starn<BR>
    0316Magash/0917Kubishush<BR>
    0917Kubishush/1417Starn (J5 route)<BR>
    0917Kubishush/1122Vincennes<BR>
    1417Starn/1917Donu-na/2414Jurbu/3015Atadl<BR>
    1417Starn/1122Vincennes<BR>
    1122Vincennes/1623Hrd/1925Deneb (J5 route)<BR>
    1122Vincennes/1128Dekha<BR>
    2522Maelstrom/2717Segan/3015Atadl<BR>
    1128Dekha/1628Alaungpaya/1925Deneb (J5 route)<BR>
    1128Dekha/1231Point Ay/1135Lilad (J4 route)<BR>
    1128Dekha/1231Point Ay/1633Pikha (J4 route)<BR>
    1633Pikha/1628Alaungpaya/1925Deneb (J5 route)<BR>
    1633Pikha/1135Lilad (J5 route)<BR>
<BR>
- --0-2078917053-953861147=:3841--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:26:31 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:07:34 -0500<BR>
>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
>Subject: Cultural Relativism<BR>
><BR>
<<<SNIPPED lots of very well written stuff about the cultural relativism<BR>
thread by Walt Smith>>><BR>
>This isn't to say there won't be changes we don't see coming, and this<BR>
>isn't to say every Startown should be a choice between New York City,<BR>
>Shanghai or Calcutta. It's just a call to think a bit before trying to come<BR>
>up with the Planet of the BDSM Culture, or some other attempt to<BR>
>take a fringe or a village and make it into a planet.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	Your whole writeup was very enjoyable to read, and you had me nodding my<BR>
head in agreement, Walt.  Thanks.  :-><BR>
<BR>
	Since I'm always looking for a different slant on things, here's my ObTrav<BR>
suggestion for adventuring on a planet that's failing at their social<BR>
experiment.  A planet where a group of immigrants are attempting to<BR>
establish their own culture, now two, three, or possibly more generations<BR>
along, but the stresses of a larger population than ever before are<BR>
starting to cause Bad Things to happen.  For instance, the culture that has<BR>
"sexual slavery" as a norm might make for all kinds of dramatic conflict as<BR>
things start to fall apart.<BR>
<BR>
	Players could be pulled into this or just be nearby observers.  I would<BR>
imagine the beginnings of the end would be subtle and manifest themselves<BR>
in a variety of ways.  Personal relationships would fray.  Individuals<BR>
might start calling for the creation of institutions and customs that<BR>
haven't existed before as things grow more public and less subtle (police<BR>
investigation into master/slave situations that grow oppressive or harmful?<BR>
 perhaps a family of slaves are particularly unfairly deprived of their<BR>
inheritance when their parents die?  democratic elections?)  The mere<BR>
presence of outworlders may well tend to cause natives to feel strained and<BR>
behave more extremely, as they feel (or at least imagine) the judgmental<BR>
eyes of outsiders on them.  Children and grandchildren of the founders<BR>
often find themselves uninterested and vaguely repulsed by both the S & the<BR>
M side of life, yet they are being made to fit in.  Teenagers caught<BR>
necking in the basement without bondage, domination, nor torture are<BR>
punished by their parents.  Perhaps family members are "sold" into slavery.<BR>
 Perhaps the planet managed to originally avoid violating the Imperium's<BR>
slavery prohibition, but it's a fine line between what many of them<BR>
practice and what is illegal.  Not all of them will care.  Perhaps<BR>
purveyors of truly illegal porn are drawn to this planet likes flies to<BR>
honey.  Snuff films and nonconsensual torture, child pornography are being<BR>
created and shipped out despite all the locals' best efforts.<BR>
<BR>
	A group of players may make planetfall, pick up a cargo and plan to<BR>
continue on.  But, a crusading citizen (local, or offworlder?) apprises<BR>
them of the nature of those innocent-seeming holorecordings they are<BR>
speculating in.  They were never expected to actually *open* the crates.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Perhaps the players are escorting a wealthy client to the planet, so the<BR>
client can indulge his sexual appetites in a way not possible at home.<BR>
With society going through changes hard for even the participants to fully<BR>
comprehend, the players are trying to escort their patron through this<BR>
alien place of almost byzantine personal relationships.  What people say,<BR>
what they *think* they mean even is often very different from what they<BR>
*really* mean.  Unexpected political struggles are quietly taking place.<BR>
The patron's eyes shining with sexual excitement, powerful sexual urges<BR>
that had been hidden and repressed all his life erupting uncontrollably in<BR>
him.  Whether the patron is there to be a slave or a master, or perhaps<BR>
switch from time to time, he may well become a target for some and a pawn<BR>
for others who are involved in various things.  Meanwhile, the percentage<BR>
of dangerous wackos that are in every population will be dealing with this<BR>
world even more poorly than most dangerous wackos on theirs.  Real world<BR>
cultures that have been created somewhat from whole cloth are the Israeli<BR>
and Liberian ones.  Think about the behavioral and attitudinal differences<BR>
between the first, second, and later generations in these places.<BR>
Suggested movie viewing for referees interested in this adventure idea<BR>
might be Eyes Wide Shut (obvious parallels between the sexual worlds and<BR>
the plot idea) and Cabaret (again, a society in turmoil, turning<BR>
dysfunctional, which stresses personal and sexual relationships strangely).<BR>
 WUSA was also a movie that did a good job showing private and public<BR>
relationships of all kinds in a society that was tearing itself asunder.  I<BR>
like to suggest movies, because they help provide lots of atmosphere for<BR>
referees to borrow from, as well as characters and plots.  The atmosphere<BR>
in books usually isn't as a vivid as a good movie, and a book takes more<BR>
time than a movie.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	What happens when the Zhodani find themselves with no recourse but to send<BR>
someone undercover into such a life?  (Have to invent a plausible reason<BR>
for it, though.)  I'm thinking it will be very hard to find a Zhodani<BR>
operative who isn't repulsed by S&M.  But, there might be a few.<BR>
Operatives who have had to immerse themselves in "unhealthy" life styles to<BR>
maintain cover before.  And have abandoned themselves to it.  There would<BR>
probably be a few who are kept around.  Their comrades probably go wash<BR>
their hands after talking to these people.<BR>
<BR>
	Perhaps the Imperium feels more than the usual interest in keeping close<BR>
tabs on this planet.  Law enforcement types might want undercover agents<BR>
there, to ensure the slavery laws don't get broken.<BR>
<BR>
	Long term undercover operatives in these situations might have<BR>
psychological issues much tougher to handle than in most undercover<BR>
assignments.<BR>
<BR>
	Maybe some of the younger people decide to emigrate to a different<BR>
continent and set up their own ideal society, where S&M is prohibited.<BR>
But, they haven't lived any other way, so how well can things go?<BR>
<BR>
	Perhaps high grade lanthanum ore is suddenly discovered on the planet, and<BR>
it moves into the political and corporate fore as a result.  Just to add<BR>
some further twists and strains.<BR>
<BR>
	And the best part about all this confusion and dramatic conflict is that<BR>
everyone the players meet has many visible ....accessories that make it<BR>
possible for them to do some scary things to the players.  This is great<BR>
atmosphere, but it also makes the players wary of every room they enter,<BR>
every shadow in every alley they pass.  The slave in heavy studded leather<BR>
gear who has been stressing way past his coping point for years and is<BR>
ready to explode in anger and vengeance.  The masters with a bevy of slaves<BR>
waiting to do their bidding.  Handcuffs, restraints, gags, whips, in<BR>
abundance and they can be used on anyone.  People with a lot to lose.  The<BR>
purveyors of illegal porn disguised as legitimate local businessmen, and<BR>
even more to lose than most people.  Parents who were unable to draw the<BR>
line and have raised their children as abused slaves (after all, how's the<BR>
Imperium to know?).  The friends and families of people who are being<BR>
victimized (at least in their eyes) who are increasingly desperate to<BR>
rescue their loved one, hatching plots.  Moral reformers might visit from<BR>
offworld with various schemes to put an end to what they consider a sick<BR>
and abominable way of life.  A "deprogrammer" sent to "rescue" the teenaged<BR>
grandchild who fled with a casual lover to the planet a year ago and has<BR>
not been heard from since.  I could go on and on.  This planet sounds like<BR>
a place for multiple, repeat adventures.  I'd love to see the players faces<BR>
each time they realize they have to go back there.  Should probably play<BR>
that Korn album in the background.  "Freak On A Leash" and all that, forgot<BR>
the album title.<BR>
<BR>
	Anyone have any suggestions for where such a planet might exist in the<BR>
Spinward Marches circa 1100 to 1116?  This place gives *me* the creeps, but<BR>
I think I'd like to flesh it out more completely and use it.  Maybe this<BR>
should go in the Landgrab?  Or would that be too unwholesome for such wide<BR>
publication?  Probably not a good idea for the Landgrab, regardless of how<BR>
much adventure potential there might be.<BR>
<BR>
	There are other kinds of failing cultures that should be similarly<BR>
promising for adventure settings.  This was the first one I picked on,<BR>
since it was mentioned a couple of times in the thread.  I'd be interested<BR>
in seeing what other people come up along these lines.  If someone can<BR>
devise a plausible way to do the paranoid society idea, that might be the<BR>
perfect place to run a Cthulu-inspired adventure.  The locals are convinced<BR>
The Old Ones are real, and the players are increasingly unsure what to<BR>
think.  I think there's a lot of mileage possible from this dysfunctional<BR>
culture idea.  Who cares whether the culture succeeds or fails, as long as<BR>
it makes a good story.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:33:37 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> WoTC, owners of D&D, may open the D20 game system for public<BR>
> use.  IIRC, someone on the list has seen the beta-material for this<BR>
> system.  Any comments on its quality?<BR>
> http://slashdot.org/features/00/03/22/0950237.shtml<BR>
> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_DoD_005.asp<BR>
> bloo<BR>
<BR>
Greets,<BR>
<BR>
    This is one of the few times I think I've been able to give a positive<BR>
critique of the system :-) I play-tested the AD&D 3rd ed. system and<BR>
am under the obligations of non-disclosure (NDA), so I can't really<BR>
give out much in the way of detail.<BR>
    In essence, you roll a d20 add bonuses, subtract penalties. And<BR>
try to hit a target number. Sound familiar anyone? The "d20 system"<BR>
is the core mechanic behind 3rd edition AD&D.<BR>
    Now, for comments on quality- IMO, it is a good system. Simple,<BR>
direct, and stream-lined with skills and combat rolls both integrated<BR>
into the same mechanic.<BR>
    From what I understand, WotC is planning on bringing Gamma<BR>
World and Star Wars back out using this system and that should give<BR>
some good "reference" material for how to convert the system into<BR>
Traveller I believe.<BR>
<BR>
    One of the biggest advantages to "conversion" is that the d20<BR>
system is fully integrated as far as skills and combat go and both<BR>
Traveller and D&D use a "class-based" system- albeit, Traveller's<BR>
is a bit looser :-)<BR>
    Attempting to use this system to run Traveller would work well<BR>
since "task resolution" is virtually built into the 3rd edition rules.<BR>
    The biggest drawback to a conversion would be the fact that the<BR>
skills you may choose and the bonuses are based on class and level,<BR>
so to work it into Traveller, you would have to write up your own skills<BR>
and figure out which one's are appropriate to what Traveller "classes"<BR>
(IE. Does High Guard get foraging as a primary skill?).<BR>
    Final note: My comments above regarding compatibility are based<BR>
on my limited recollection of the MT and CT systems. I'm not sure how<BR>
compatible it would be with T:NE, T4, T5, or GT.<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:38:19 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson writes:<BR>
 <BR>
> That's one of my many problems with the entire rebellion in Megatraveller. <BR>
> It's impossible for me to believe that Dulinor thought for a moment that <BR>
> his claim of being Emperor by Right of Assassination would be upheld by the<BR>
>  Moot. Given that he couldn't become Emperor, the only reason for his <BR>
> actions is that he was seperating the Domain of Ileish from the rest of the<BR>
>  Imperium, and shooting Strephon was a way to throw the Imperium into <BR>
> confusion while he did it.<BR>
<BR>
The rebellion in MT wasn't a 'popular revolution' anyway.  It was a naked power<BR>
grab by a grand duke.  I'm sure Dulinor didn't really expect his Right of<BR>
Assassination to make him emperor (or at least didn't plan on it), but he <BR>
was probably hoping to trigger a civil war and then come out on top (not<BR>
an unreasonable idea, given that he was prepared and other people in theory<BR>
were not).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:39:20 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:43:42 -0500<BR>
>From: Rob Miracle <rwm@mpgn.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
>Milagro/District 268<BR>
><BR>
>After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
><BR>
>Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with a fraction <BR>
>of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
<BR>
	Gold rush town?  It doesn't have to be gold.  It could be lanthanum for<BR>
instance.  Or something bizarre you cook up, like a mold that grows on rock<BR>
in hard vacuum, and is incredibly valuable for pharmaceutical<BR>
manufacturing.  Pharmaceuticals might be legal, or illegal.  Anyway, a wild<BR>
and woolly gold rush town, with the corporations starting to move in, and<BR>
each one carve out the biggest slice of the pie they can.  Most residents<BR>
of a gold rush town aren't there to mine gold.  They're there to cook food<BR>
for the miners, or cut their hair, or sell them clothes, all for an<BR>
exorbitant price.  Or run confidence scams on them, or just plain rob them.<BR>
<BR>
	Good luck.  I'll be checking downport.com to see what happens.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:41:05 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Resteraunt<BR>
<BR>
excepting Alice"<BR>
<BR>
ROFL!!!!!!!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
> Berry<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 2:13 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 05:35 PM 3/23/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >"Ahh, don't want a pickle / I just wanna ride mah motor-sickle..."<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><thwap!><BR>
> <BR>
> "I've been singing this song for twenty minutes. I can sing for another<BR>
> twenty. I'm not proud...<BR>
> <BR>
> ..or tired."<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:41:17 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
That will definately be arranged :)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
> Berry<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 2:19 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 03:44 PM 3/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >While I haven't gotten my comp copies of the book yet (Loren, <BR>
> they ship out<BR>
> >yet???) and can't comment on page 27 yet, I CAN tell you whats on the<BR>
> >shipping container on the cover.....<BR>
> <BR>
> LOL! Jesse's the man!<BR>
> <BR>
> >p.s.  Next time I'm getting Gridlore Technologies and maybe a couple of<BR>
> >others on there ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> What I'd love is for one illustration in Ground Forces to have A-7-1 and<BR>
> 9-84 in it somewhere. That's my Infantry OSUT company and the month I<BR>
> entered the Army.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:01:51 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Telegenic Wars<BR>
<BR>
On 23 Mar 2000 at 14:30 (GMT -0500), SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU wrote:<BR>
>I remember a science fiction tale where a company is hired to fight<BR>
>a war, and manages to get a subsidiary company hired to fight the other<BR>
>side of the war. The two companies get together, make some deals,<BR>
>and start providing a rootin, shootin war to their respective employers.<BR>
>Explosions, dogfights, artillery barrages, infantry charges - all done with<BR>
>special effects, stuntmen and actors. Eventually the war dies down<BR>
>into a stalemate, the two sides make peace, and the two companies<BR>
>take their profits home with no one the wiser.<BR>
<BR>
	That's not far from how things were done in Italy during one period a few<BR>
centuries ago.  It just wasn't proper form to be completely bloodless<BR>
though.  Usually whoever had recently been convicted of some disciplinary<BR>
infraction got offered up as victims.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:51:26 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: For the world desingers..<BR>
<BR>
DAMN!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<shudder!><BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
> Berry<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 3:15 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: For the world desingers..<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Tainted atmospheres? I got yer tainted atmospheres!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/<BR>
> 2000/03/23<BR>
> /MN40103.DTL<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2170<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2171</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2171<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
RE: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
RE: Had to ask<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:41:53 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         I only brought this issue up because Leonard was nit-picking on<BR>
>         my original question.  I only want to know how much pressure<BR>
>         (pressure and concentration, or partial pressure) would be<BR>
>         required to make H2 diffuse into a vacc suit fast enough to make<BR>
>         it a serious hazard.<BR>
<BR>
It'd depend on a lot of factors. And I doubt that *any* of them are<BR>
where we can easily look them up.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:46:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
> Leonard wrote:<BR>
>>In the Lensman books, E.E. Smith has the Patrol having to dig out<BR>
>>Boskonian elements from buildings in the middle of a city.<BR>
> [snip]<BR>
>>The "public" sections of the building are a<BR>
>>shell around a *major* fortification.<BR>
><BR>
> You forgot to tell people that the "building" upped and flew away when the <BR>
> end of the battle became too hot...! (and jumped - was it a cruiser or<BR>
> dreadnought?!!)<BR>
<BR>
There youi go, spoiling the surpise... :-)<BR>
<BR>
> (This is one of my favorite stand-by scenarios to pull out on the PCs if they<BR>
> get too close to a big organised crime boss - I haven't pulled it out yet, <BR>
> but one day...)<BR>
<BR>
He'd better be somebody that already faces a death penalty. Or else use<BR>
thruster plates. A reaction drive take-off from the middle of the city<BR>
ought to get him Imperial attention.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:57:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> That's what I was trying to do, while keeping things interesting.  For<BR>
> example:  How the hell do you apply radical stealth to a BOX?!?!  So my<BR>
> handwave was (generally) that if the craft was streamlined or stealthed,<BR>
> then it tended to have more sloping sides and smoothly rounded corners.<BR>
> Unstreamlined and / or not stealth and the edges are sharp.  Generally<BR>
> speaking.  As in all things, there are one or two exceptions ;)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, smooth curves are harder to stealth. The F-117 is a classic<BR>
example. All flat facets, intended to reflect radar *away* from the<BR>
radar emitter.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:38:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic and High-temperature Atmospheres<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
>>>         I agree that most vacc suits would not include a H2 system, but on<BR>
>>>         a world with a substantial partial pressure of H2 I would <BR>
> certainly<BR>
>>>         expect that it would be included.<BR>
>>Sure. *If* there's a colony or some sort of base there. But players may<BR>
>>not stop to think that they need a "special" vac suit or life support<BR>
>>module. <BR>
><BR>
>         If you will recall a few posts back, I wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>    How does free hydrogen contribute to an atmosphere being Insidious?<BR>
><BR>
>         and Leonard replied:<BR>
><BR>
>>The hydrogen molecule is *very* small. It'll *flow* thru seals that are<BR>
>>merely "airtight".<BR>
><BR>
>         All I have been trying to find out is whether or not H2 makes a good<BR>
>         Insidious atmosphere.  If it is trivially easy to make a protective<BR>
>         suit that is safe to use for many hours in such an atmosphere, then<BR>
>         I would not call it Insidious.  Even this assumes that something else<BR>
>         in the atmosphere makes wearing a simple O2 mask impractical.<BR>
<BR>
The trick is that the only *practical* way to deal with the hydrogen is<BR>
react it with something *before* it reaches a dangerous concentration.<BR>
So it'll cause your O2 supply to get used up faster.<BR>
<BR>
An O2 mask is downright *dangerous*. Because the O2 will leak out<BR>
around the edges. One spark and you are standing in a fireball. No thanks!<BR>
<BR>
That's why you need a *suit*. And a standard one won't do very well.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:43:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Turns out they are right. The "public" sections of the building are a<BR>
>> shell around a *major* fortification. Complete withdreadnought level<BR>
>> shields and weapons... It's an *ugly* battle, even though they managed<BR>
>> to evacuate the non-combats before attacking...<BR>
><BR>
> ISTR that it was just a little bit... more than that.<BR>
<BR>
I was trying to avoid spoiling it for anyone who hadn't rerad the<BR>
story. After all, in spite of all the foreshadowing, I still had a<BR>
feeling of "They did *what*?!" when it happened..<BR>
<BR>
> It was a shell around an actual dreadnought. There's quite a nice<BR>
> description of what happens when they fire the main drive while still<BR>
> embedded in the city.<BR>
<BR>
> Alistair<BR>
> (Anyone for the 'Skyscraper' class dreadnought? Just for those people who<BR>
> want to make a spectacularly *non*-sneaky getaway.)<BR>
<BR>
With a *big* honking Heplar or fusion rocket drive. Just the thing to<BR>
eliminate all those inconvenient witnesses... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:51:11 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
OK, I want Phlume/Vilis.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:13:38 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-23 21:04:19 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< > At 05:35 PM 3/23/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
 > <BR>
 > >"Ahh, don't want a pickle / I just wanna ride mah motor-sickle..."<BR>
 > ><BR>
 > ><thwap!><BR>
 > <BR>
 > "I've been singing this song for twenty minutes. I can sing for another<BR>
 > twenty. I'm not proud...<BR>
 > <BR>
 > ..or tired."<BR>
 > -- <BR>
 > <BR>
 > Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
 > http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
The song that took me days to drive out of my head was prompted by someone <BR>
asking what happened when the PA-bearing elephant sneezed:<BR>
<BR>
"I went to the animal fair,<BR>
the birds and the beasts were there.<BR>
The big baboon, by the light of the moon,<BR>
Was combing his auburn hair.<BR>
The monkey, he got drunk,<BR>
And stepped on the elephant's trunk --<BR>
The elephant sneezed<BR>
And fell to his knees,<BR>
And that was the end of the monk!"<BR>
<BR>
Anybody else remember that one? It's one of those nonsense songs my mom used <BR>
to sing at the drop of a hat.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:37:17 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 00-03-23 21:04:19 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << > At 05:35 PM 3/23/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > >"Ahh, don't want a pickle / I just wanna ride mah motor-sickle..."<BR>
>  > ><BR>
>  > ><thwap!><BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > "I've been singing this song for twenty minutes. I can sing for another<BR>
>  > twenty. I'm not proud...<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > ..or tired."<BR>
>  > --<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>  > http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> The song that took me days to drive out of my head was prompted by someone<BR>
> asking what happened when the PA-bearing elephant sneezed:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips lyrics, to avoid spreading the infection>><BR>
> <BR>
> Anybody else remember that one? It's one of those nonsense songs my mom used<BR>
> to sing at the drop of a hat.<BR>
<BR>
Gee, thanks, Loren.  Since I only remembered part of the lyrics, I was<BR>
able to get that song out of my head within a couple of hours.  Now that<BR>
you've posted the lyrics in all their hideous "glory", it'll probably<BR>
take me a week to subdue the beast.<BR>
<BR>
Remind me to write and post a Traveller filk to some truly obnoxious<BR>
song, as revenge (I'm currently thinking of one to *shudder* Neil<BR>
Diamond's "Sweet Caroline" [working title:  "Tukera Lines"]).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:31:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Okay, I concede that the 3I's governmental system is different, even<BR>
> though I've tried to point out that it's not as different from ours (the<BR>
> US's at least) as we would like to think.<BR>
<BR>
Well, then, you're not conceding to me. :)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, though, I'm arguing not that it's different (that much is<BR>
obvious) but that it rests on different cultural assumptions. The two are<BR>
not the same.<BR>
<BR>
> On to newer ground (don't want to bore the list by expounding further<BR>
> on the same points).<BR>
<BR>
Oh, I'm sure that the list will survive. :)<BR>
<BR>
> The TNS in Survival Margin (the MT/TNE transition product)<BR>
> continues to post new reports even after the Imperial Government<BR>
> issues an order to cease transmissions (of course, they're spreading<BR>
> the Virus in the process, but that's beside the point).  Several other<BR>
> transmissions in Survival Margin include material that does appear<BR>
> to run counter to the government's ideals (Lucan, at the time) when<BR>
> they were published.  These would seem to be indications that the<BR>
> TNS is a free press (or at least that it was during the Rebellion).  I'll<BR>
> bring some specifics up once I have time to look them up.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough. For the sake of discussion, I'll even concede a "free press" in<BR>
the sense that organizations such as the Traveller News Service exist. How<BR>
free is free, though? Do such publications carry a license? Are there<BR>
guidelines concerning what may be published? Is there an underlying ideology<BR>
that sustains the free press (ala the First Amendment), or is it just that<BR>
no organization can effectively control "the press"?<BR>
<BR>
> >Which sources (not that I doubt you, but I'd like to be up to speed on<BR>
> this).<<BR>
><BR>
> Well, I believe GURPS: Traveller makes the clearest mention of this.<BR>
> It is also present in some of the "Rebel Reporter" reports in the<BR>
> Traveller Digest, and possibly in some T:NE material, IIRC.  I will<BR>
> look for them and get back to you on that.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough. I'll give this point to you as well. Of course, this runs<BR>
counter to the very idea of having nobles in the first place. I would be<BR>
interested in knowing what powers the nobles had taken away from them.<BR>
<BR>
> > Slavery is not tolerated.<BR>
> Chattel slavery is not tolerated, indentured servitude is.<BR>
><BR>
> I don't recall any examples of indentured servitude in the Imperium.<BR>
> Care to provide some examples?  I do remember one world in<BR>
> Trojan's Reach that had a form of indentured servitude - Halka?<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall offhand. I'm quite sure that it's been discussed to death on<BR>
the list and that indentured servitude does exist within the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Either way, the question is muted somewhat. Lots of societies have<BR>
illegalized slavery. Neither America, Iraq, Taiwan or Germany engage in or<BR>
condone the practice of slavery. The cultures in all of these countries are<BR>
similar.<BR>
<BR>
> > Citizens are allowed to travel within and without the Imperial<BR>
> > borders. This was also the case in a hell of a lot of other cultures.<BR>
> > Most of them, in fact.<<BR>
><BR>
> And not true of many others.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's been true of a hell of a lot of cultures, simply because many<BR>
cultures didn't have the means to stop people from leaving if they wanted.<BR>
Most, if not all of the ancient Greek poleis allowed freedom of movement,<BR>
and lots of people did move around. The culture's not really similar to the<BR>
United States.<BR>
<BR>
> Well, if it's true for the Emperor, it may be true for much of the<BR>
> nobility, as I would think they would tend to follow the practices of the<BR>
> Imperial court.<BR>
<BR>
Family bonds are deep structures. It's very difficult for a culture to "give<BR>
up" their understanding of family in favor of another. Family structures<BR>
don't tend to change much in a culture, and are certainly not faddish.<BR>
<BR>
> Your right though, really the only examples we have are the Emperor,<BR>
> Dulinor (who's brother is in a high position and who's daughter is<BR>
> now Archduchess), and Norris.<BR>
<BR>
We know Dulinor has a daughter and a brother, but how do we know that he<BR>
doesn't have 3 wives at home?<BR>
<BR>
>And Norris' current family is a  gender-reversed clone.<BR>
<BR>
A significant difference, if you ask me. :)<BR>
<BR>
> There's another possiblity - psionics are illegal because they are not<BR>
> a prevalent influence on our own culture, and the Imperium<BR>
> resembles ours in the absence of psionic powers.<BR>
<BR>
It doesn't, though. There are people with psionic abilities. Some of them<BR>
are even player characters. The Spinward Marches, a popular campaign<BR>
setting, border on the Zhodani Consulate, an interstellar community with a<BR>
culture that relies heavily on psionic abilities.<BR>
<BR>
If they wanted psionics to be absent, I would imagine that they wouldn't<BR>
have put them in.<BR>
<BR>
<guns><BR>
<BR>
> I am probably showing my Americo-centro views on many of these<BR>
> points.  But the designers of the game live in America, so maybe this<BR>
> one is a valid point.<BR>
<BR>
Okay. Guns are available, at least in theory, in both cultures. However, how<BR>
guns fit into that culture might be vastly different, and how a culture uses<BR>
guns might be vastly different.<BR>
<BR>
Private individuals can control private armies with lots of large scale,<BR>
high-tech equipment. Not only can they own private armies, they can employ<BR>
these private armies for profit and kill individuals on a large scale within<BR>
the Imperium totally legally.<BR>
<BR>
This is a superficial similarity, and it speaks to a much bigger rift<BR>
between our culture and Imperial culture.<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm.  I guess I'm no historian.  The Cold War was a major<BR>
> influence in America in the 70s and 80s, and that's when the game<BR>
> was designed, so it seems a likely paralell.<BR>
<BR>
Oh no, I'm not saying it's not a parallel. It is, and I think it was<BR>
certainly inspired by the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet<BR>
Union. It doesn't indicate to me that the Imperium is like the U.S., it<BR>
indicates to me that the Imperium is a major power in known space and it has<BR>
come into conflict with another major power.<BR>
<BR>
The situation at the Solomani Rim, for example, seems to be parallel to the<BR>
situation in the Middle East, with the Imperium as Israel. Does that mean<BR>
that Imperial culture is like Israeli culture?<BR>
<BR>
> Somewhat similar, but not enough similarity for me to say that both<BR>
> would be culturally similar.<<BR>
><BR>
> Ah, come on.  Astroburgers has "20th century culture" written all over<BR>
> it, even in the lame name.<BR>
<BR>
I certainly won't disagree too much, except to point out that the Imperium<BR>
is much less laissez faire towards business than any western culture in the<BR>
late 20th century. I think the fact that the Imperium doesn't seem too<BR>
interested in limiting the power and scope of the megacorporations, late<BR>
20th century democracies in the West tend to.<BR>
<BR>
> > English is the lingua franca.<BR>
> This much is sheer convenience.<<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah, probably right.  But what implications does that have?<BR>
> Languages have their own effects on culture.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, I will admit that languages *do* effect culture. I will even<BR>
agree that Galanglic and modern American English are one in the same. There<BR>
will be some superficial similarities, maybe the culture will be aggressive<BR>
and expansionistic, in some fuzzy sense, as some hypothesize English<BR>
"conditions" people to be.<BR>
<BR>
Athens was also aggressive, and Athenian culture was different from our own<BR>
in many significant ways. The Romans were also aggressive and<BR>
expansionistic, the list can go on and on.<BR>
<BR>
> > The 3I is dominated by humans. (and not something else)<BR>
> Again, sheer convenience. Since we don't have aliens running around on<BR>
earth<BR>
> in the 20th century this becomes something of a moot point.<<BR>
><BR>
> But it does show a humano-centric viewpoint that I find western<BR>
> (perhaps even American) in nature.  "Of course humans dominate it.<BR>
> We've always been the best."<BR>
<BR>
This is a really weak point in your position. With the exception of one of<BR>
the "mad" Roman emperors, (who sent a horse to the senate) few have tried to<BR>
put non-humans in leadership roles. :)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, though, I don't know what to make of this, other than the vast<BR>
majority of sci-fi works assume a universe which is dominated by humans. It<BR>
may be a cultural trait of the culture that produces the game to say "of<BR>
course we'll rule the universe," but it says nothing about the culture of<BR>
the Imperium itself.<BR>
<BR>
> Possibly. I know of at least three different strains of friendship which<BR>
> exist in the West in the 20th century, and each is valued on a<BR>
> different level. The Ancient Greeks, the Norse, and pretty much every<BR>
> other culture I can think of has valued friendship in one form or<BR>
> another.<<BR>
><BR>
> True, I suppose it is a rather common human value.<BR>
<BR>
So common as to exist in all cultures.<BR>
<BR>
> Ever since the concept of money was established, people have<BR>
> sought money and the material wealth it brings and symbolizes.<BR>
> Ancient Mesopotamia, Ancient Greece, etc., lots of people at lots of<BR>
> different times valued "money".<<BR>
><BR>
> As a colorary, the Imperium seems to be in rather prosperous<BR>
> economic times, as is the West currently.  A one-ship tramp<BR>
> merchant can carve out a living and still have time to go adventuring.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but lots of cultures have periods of prosperity. A lot of your examples<BR>
here are kind of like saying, "most vegetables have skin covering, humans<BR>
have skin covering, hence, vegetables are humans."<BR>
<BR>
> > love,<BR>
> Says who? I've never seen this as something which is valued in the<BR>
> Imperium. Still, there are many different strains of love, and various<BR>
> threads have been valued by various cultures.<<BR>
><BR>
> Strephon valued love.  Again in Survival Margin, he mourns the death<BR>
> of his wife and daughter.<BR>
<BR>
Ancient Greeks mourned the deaths of their daughters and wives, most<BR>
cultures mourn the deaths of those close to them.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, not every culture has a good view of "romantic love",<BR>
which is a central value in the modern western world (I blame Rousseau). The<BR>
Ancient Greeks, on the other hand, thought that "romantic love" disrupted<BR>
the social order and should be avoided.<BR>
<BR>
Like I said, there are a lot of different strains of love. Familial love is<BR>
falling more and more out of favor, while romantic love is an obsession.<BR>
<BR>
> > neat vehicles,<BR>
> See money, above.<<BR>
><BR>
> That was a throw-away anyway.  I think the American fascination with<BR>
> Automobiles (which has only existed in this century) is a good<BR>
> parallel with how players typically feel about their ships.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, and it's probably a pretty good parallel with how people in the<BR>
"Old West" of America felt about horses and so on.<BR>
<BR>
> > honor,<BR>
<BR>
> Define honor. I'll probably disagree with you that it's particularly<BR>
> valued in the West.<<BR>
><BR>
> On second thought, let's leave the definition of honor to another<BR>
> thread.<BR>
<BR>
Good idea. :)<BR>
<BR>
> > integrity,<BR>
> Not valued highly at all in America, and is valued to varying degrees<BR>
> in the rest of the Western world.<<BR>
><BR>
> I disagree.  Yes the politicians get away with things they probably<BR>
> shouldn't, but I think your average American greatly values integrity,<BR>
> and their criticism of said politicians is a symptom of that.  It was<BR>
> pointed out that during the recent impeachment crises, President<BR>
> Clinton's job approval rating remained staggeringly high.  What was<BR>
> not pointed out is that polls that showed American's opinion of the<BR>
> man himself were dismal at best.  When he showed himself<BR>
> someone lacking in integrity, the people were willing to let him stay<BR>
> becaue the country was doing well, but no longer respected him as a<BR>
> person.<BR>
<BR>
However, it should be noted that they valued that *less* than his perceived<BR>
ability to do his job. Sure, people don't *like* to be lied to, but in<BR>
America, at least, it's done all of the time, and people with low degrees of<BR>
personal integrity *thrive* in social situations, the business world,<BR>
politics, pretty much everywhere.<BR>
<BR>
Even assuming we're using a similar definition of integrity, it's really<BR>
safe to say that integrity isn't something that is valued as much as, say,<BR>
being able to do a good job, or being entertaining at parties.<BR>
<BR>
> > equality.<BR>
> Interesting, considering the fact that it's a society which allows<BR>
> distinctly unequal societies to exist within its borders and believes<BR>
> that some people are fit to rule by the virtue of their birth alone.<BR>
Still,<BR>
> equality is a *huge* category. Disentangle it a bit, and we'll talk. :)<<BR>
><BR>
> I suppose to be more specific, immunity from slavery.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think that a belief in equality and a belief that slavery is wrong<BR>
equate to the same thing.<BR>
<BR>
> > Similar things are<BR>
> > crimes - murder,<BR>
> Do you want a laundry list of cultures that considered murder to be a<BR>
> crime?<<BR>
><BR>
> No, not particularly.  It is a similarity, though.<BR>
<BR>
No, but it's a similarity in that all cultures I can think of have laws<BR>
against the unwarranted killing of others within the same social group.<BR>
<BR>
> > theft,<BR>
> See murder, above.<BR>
><BR>
> Ditto.<BR>
<BR>
Again, see above. Laws against theft exist in just about every culture I can<BR>
think of, even cultures with a belief in communal property. From where I'm<BR>
sitting it looks like you're saying, "well, Americans think murder and<BR>
stealing are wrong, and Imperials think that murder and stealing are wrong,<BR>
so their cultures are the same." On the other hand, I see these as things<BR>
that all (or at least the *vast majority*) of all human cultures deal with,<BR>
so I'm willing to concede that they're both *cultures*.<BR>
<BR>
> >lying before those in authority,<BR>
<BR>
> Perjury is illegal, in America, and I'm not sure about the rest of the<BR>
> West. I can lie all I want in front of police, senators, congressmen and<BR>
> even the president. I can't recall seeing this addressed in any<BR>
> Traveller materials I own.<<BR>
><BR>
> I'll look for a source on that (that perjury is illegal in the Imperium).<BR>
<BR>
Perjury is different than lying before those in authority, however.<BR>
<BR>
> > betrayal.<BR>
> Betrayal is not a crime in the West.<<BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps not, but it is considered morally reprehensible.<BR>
<BR>
To some degree.<BR>
<BR>
> *big snip here*<BR>
> >Finally, and this is a biggy, the Imperium is a complete *autocracy*.<BR>
> Effectively, one man holds power and can damn well use it however<BR>
> he wishes. Period. The Emperor answers to no one.<<BR>
><BR>
> Cleon the Mad might make a good counter case of this.  That was a<BR>
> case where the Emperor's policies were his downfall, and it was the<BR>
> Moot that was the cause.<BR>
<BR>
The Moot rebelled. Revolutions will happen from time to time. That's<BR>
different from saying that a leader is answerable to another body. He's not<BR>
answerable to another body. The other body may rise up and kill him if they<BR>
get pissed.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying that leaders can't be killed, but that the Emperor does not<BR>
have to answer for what he does to an outside body.<BR>
<BR>
It's like saying that because the South rebelled in the Civil War that<BR>
individual states within the U.S. are able to seccede from the Union at<BR>
will, or that because the American colonies parted ways with Britain,<BR>
Ireland can part ways with Britain.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, the fact that Lucan was never removed or assassinated is<BR>
> a good support for it.<BR>
<BR>
No, it's neither support or lack of support. It simply indicates that the<BR>
Imperium doesn't believe that leaders may be cashiered by their inferiors<BR>
for their actions. There's a difference. They might rise up and kill their<BR>
leaders, the moot might seize the reins of power for itself, but that<BR>
doesn't mean that it's part of the political ideology of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
> > Internecine wars are allowed (a convention to allow more<BR>
> > adventure possibilities).<BR>
> Which points to fundamental differences in the way human life and<BR>
> human liberties are viewed.<<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm.  That is a valid point.<BR>
<BR>
Glad we agree on something. :)<BR>
<BR>
> >Let me also point out that Imperial citizens have no rights, implicitly<BR>
> or explicitly, with the exception of a right to be free from one specific<BR>
> form of slavery. That's it.<<BR>
><BR>
> The concept of "Nobilese Oligese", or however it's spelled, gives the<BR>
> implicit right that the citizens of the Imperium have competant<BR>
> government. This is a big concept in the T:NE materials, and how the<BR>
> Rebellion was a betrayal of the people.<BR>
> Other than that you do appear to be correct.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough. Nobles are supposed to be competent. However, I'm not going to<BR>
wander into TNE materials because you're talking about a span of many years<BR>
in which the Imperium has been wiped out and the old culture has died. If<BR>
you want to say that the New Era tries to look like 20th Century Americans<BR>
in space, in a number of fashions, I will agree with you. The designers of<BR>
TNE explicitly stated this.<BR>
<BR>
> Hmph, this thing is still too long.  Oh well.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, I guess it is. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:26:48 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but the F-117 ain't a flyin' breadbox either :)  It's non-box shape<BR>
helped with the stealthing.  They also started making smoother stealth<BR>
planes as soon as they could, with projects like the B2 and F22.  Closest<BR>
thing to a flying box stealth plane was the original Tacit Blue technology<BR>
demonstrator program.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
> Erickson<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 5:58 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > That's what I was trying to do, while keeping things interesting.  For<BR>
> > example:  How the hell do you apply radical stealth to a BOX?!?!  So my<BR>
> > handwave was (generally) that if the craft was streamlined or stealthed,<BR>
> > then it tended to have more sloping sides and smoothly rounded corners.<BR>
> > Unstreamlined and / or not stealth and the edges are sharp.  Generally<BR>
> > speaking.  As in all things, there are one or two exceptions ;)<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, smooth curves are harder to stealth. The F-117 is a classic<BR>
> example. All flat facets, intended to reflect radar *away* from the<BR>
> radar emitter.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:26:49 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Had to ask<BR>
<BR>
Check out the e-mail I sent with the subject "RE: Starports Cover Art -<BR>
SPOILER ALERT"<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jussi<BR>
> Kenkkil<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 10:59 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Had to ask<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:02 PM<BR>
> Subject: 4 Horsemen?<BR>
><BR>
> > Perhaps you shouldn't translate what the cargo container on the<BR>
> front cover<BR>
> > says . . .<BR>
> ><BR>
> What does it say???<BR>
><BR>
> -J2K<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:40:29 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Remind me to write and post a Traveller filk to some truly obnoxious<BR>
> song, as revenge (I'm currently thinking of one to *shudder* Neil<BR>
> Diamond's "Sweet Caroline" [working title:  "Tukera Lines"]).<BR>
<BR>
Now and then I try to do the same to two songs from Greg Kihn: The Breakup<BR>
Song ("They just don't write 'em like that anymore," when feeling<BR>
particularly nostalgic about the game) and Jeopardy ("Our game's in<BR>
jeopardy," when shaking my head in stunned disbelief at some of the<BR>
flamewars about particularly silly and irrelevant parts of "Canon.").<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2171<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2172</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 23 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2172<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2166<BR>
Re: Telegenic Wars<BR>
TML Landgrab Carse/Lunion Part I<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Far Frontiers Sector<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:26:36 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2166<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:18:49 +0000<BR>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
><BR>
>At 10:22 -0500 23/3/00, Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:<BR>
>>This would have been a clear kill if I had been drinking anything. Thank<BR>
>>you for getting this stuff in print. It is now a published part of<BR>
>>canon.<BR>
>>*dramatic drumroll*<BR>
>>Be *very* afraid...<BR>
>>:-)<BR>
><BR>
>I refuse to deny the rumour that Famille Spofulam are also mentioned in ACQ.<BR>
><BR>
>The penguins made us do it.<BR>
><BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
MEMO<BR>
<BR>
ORIG Uncle Hengie<BR>
<BR>
DEST Legal<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Boys, head down to HES, check out some toys, investigate, report back.  No<BR>
written report needed, vid will do fine.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hengie out.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:49:35 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Telegenic Wars<BR>
<BR>
On 23 Mar 2000 at 14:30 (GMT -0500), SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >I remember a science fiction tale where a company is hired to fight<BR>
 >a war, and manages to get a subsidiary company hired to fight the other<BR>
 >side of the war. The two companies get together, make some deals,<BR>
 >and start providing a rootin, shootin war to their respective employers.<BR>
 >Explosions, dogfights, artillery barrages, infantry charges - all done with<BR>
 >special effects, stuntmen and actors. Eventually the war dies down<BR>
 >into a stalemate, the two sides make peace, and the two companies<BR>
 >take their profits home with no one the wiser.<BR>
<BR>
Then there's "War Movie," a short story from Niven's TALES FROM THE DRACO <BR>
TAVERN (a spaceport bar, on Earth, that caters to non-humans).  In it, a <BR>
bankrupt alien investor, drowning his sorrows, complains bitterly that <BR>
humans stopped making war among themselves after First Contact.<BR>
<BR>
See, his group happened to stop by Sol system just as WW2 was getting into <BR>
full swing.  Even from orbit and without professional camera gear, they got <BR>
some /lovely/ raw footage -- including two uses of primitive atomic weapons <BR>
on cities!  Wow!<BR>
<BR>
So they ran home, made lots of money with their high-rated footage, and <BR>
hocked themselves up to their eyeballs (and then hocked their eyeballs) in <BR>
order to outfit a return expedition... but when they came back, they found <BR>
themselves without a cast.  It seems we're shy about fighting in front of <BR>
the neighbors.<BR>
<BR>
A human patron who overhears this tale of woe makes the somewhat indignant <BR>
remark that this should be made public knowledge.  The bartender quickly <BR>
shuts him down, however, pointing out that even if this particular <BR>
consortium is bankrupt, there are /still/ sentients out there who will pay <BR>
big money for a "war movie"... and people here on Earth who will gladly <BR>
take that money.<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair    "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since<BR>
kellys@efn.org     you came back from the dead.  (I can't believe I just<BR>
                    said that.)"    -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:56:35 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab Carse/Lunion Part I<BR>
<BR>
I thought I would throw out a first draft of a world<BR>
detailing for the land grab so we can decide what sort<BR>
of information we want. Comments are encouraged.<BR>
<BR>
Taking the (randomly selected) Spinward Marches example of<BR>
Carse/Lunion 0604 (right next to Lunion itself).<BR>
<BR>
Part I People, Culture, Society<BR>
<BR>
Short Data:<BR>
its [Milieu 1100] UPP is	C 463325-9 Lo Ni  601 M3V<BR>
<BR>
BtC says "Carse is a dry, rugged world with little in the<BR>
way of mineral deposits. Most of the population is employed <BR>
in the tourism industry, catering to those who come to view <BR>
the spectacular wind-worn rock formations of the Gresni Desert. <BR>
The remainder work at the port or raise cactus-like <BR>
meldo-fruit plants for export."<BR>
<BR>
"Behind the Claw" says 6,400 having no previous contradictory <BR>
canon I accept this figure and detail it further to a population<BR>
of 6,429. We determine that the bulk of the planets population<BR>
lives in a single town with a population of 5,721. The rest of<BR>
the planets population lives in groups of less than 10.<BR>
we decide that these 708 inhabitants are outlying family<BR>
meldo-fruit farmers. To add a bit of visual detail for the<BR>
players we decide that meldo farms bear a very strong<BR>
visual resemblance to Luke Skywalker's family moisture farm<BR>
in Star Wars.        <BR>
<BR>
With the UPP and this data in mind I arbitrarily decide that<BR>
(IMTU at least) Carse will bear a strong resemblance to<BR>
Chatham, Massachusetts a town of a few thousand people dependent<BR>
on tourism. Chatham has a Board of Selectmen so we will simply<BR>
eliminate them and say that the annual town (planetary) meeting<BR>
votes on all subjects. Given that Carse is Tl 9 we could<BR>
make their Participatory Democracy an electronic one. Arbitrarily<BR>
I decide that an in person meeting every 10 local years<BR>
(98 days standard) will decide all matters.<BR>
<BR>
[We found the local year of 9.8387 earth days using the <BR>
standard P^3/D formula, assumed an orbit at 0.2 AU's and <BR>
calculated a stellar mass of 0.297.]<BR>
<BR>
We will set voting qualifications fairly simple. After <BR>
continuous residence on planet for 100 local years (2.7 <BR>
Earth years) anyone over the age of 750 years (20.2 standard <BR>
years) can vote. However, just like our New England model, <BR>
if you have not lived in the area for at least five generations <BR>
you are a newcomer "You're not from around her, are you?" <BR>
and your voice won't get much attention at the meeting.<BR>
<BR>
We decide to choose, rather than roll, the Social Outlook.<BR>
Carseite's are Conservative, Advancing, Unaggressive, Neutral,<BR>
Harmonious and Friendly. (We note that Carseites are friendly<BR>
towards tourists and short term visitors but are actually <BR>
aloof and cold towards immigrants.)<BR>
<BR>
We decide to add color to Carse by using MT'S WBH to create<BR>
some local customs. Rolling randomly we get 5 customs:<BR>
<BR>
Medical figures live under special conditions.<BR>
We decide that Medical personnel are required by law<BR>
to live in a dormitory adjacent to the planets only<BR>
hospital, to ensure they are always nearby if a medical <BR>
emergency occurs.<BR>
<BR>
Psionics mean instant death.<BR>
The population of Carse has always been particularly<BR>
distrustful of Psionics. Arbitrarily we decide that during <BR>
the Fifth Frontier War the people of Carse raised the penalty<BR>
for psionics from lobotomy to death in order to "Show<BR>
their opposition to the dirty Zho's." The law is still on<BR>
the books.<BR>
<BR>
Unusual juewely for all.<BR>
We decide that Carsite's, who have to be friendly towards<BR>
tourists for economic reasons but who don't really like<BR>
tourists (again drawing from our model of Chatham, MA) have<BR>
a law requiring that everyone leaving the starport extrality<BR>
zone wear a pendant indicating if they are a tourist, a <BR>
resident, or a voter. This helps Carseite's know how to<BR>
treat people. With its population of 6,295 most Carsite's<BR>
will recognize most other Carseite's on sight but it is nice<BR>
to be sure. By charging Cr 20 or so for these necklaces the<BR>
Carseites can extract a hidden tax on tourists. By encouraging<BR>
these tourists to wear their pendants when they get home the <BR>
Carseites get free advertising.<BR>
<BR>
Unusual significance of art for all figures.<BR>
We decide that the people or Carse strongly encourage their<BR>
entire population to practice art, especially sculpture as a <BR>
way of expressing their love for the natural beauty of their <BR>
planet. Arbitrarily we say that the most ommon form of<BR>
visual art on Carse is sculpting art out of soft metal and<BR>
leaving it outside in the desert sandstorms for few local<BR>
decades so the sandblasting can give the surface of the<BR>
art a unique patina. This form of art is a hobby for most <BR>
rather than an occupation for a few, therefore it was not<BR>
mentioned in the BtC job notes.<BR>
<BR>
Very Long marriages prohibited for all.<BR>
Local law forbids any marriage contract longer than 200 local <BR>
years (5.4 standard years) on the theory that longer<BR>
marriages are more likely to end in divorce. To avoid the<BR>
social problems caused by a bitter divorce on a planet with<BR>
a small population where it is impossible to avoid your ex, <BR>
the Carseite's have forbidden long marriages and remarriage<BR>
to the same person.<BR>
<BR>
The law level of Carse is 5. Using WBH we determine that the<BR>
law is applied uniformly across the planet and create a <BR>
detailed law level of 5-74645 Overall - Weapons / Trade /<BR>
Criminal Law / Civil Law/ PersonalFreedom<BR>
<BR>
Looking at the subsector map we note that Carse is on the<BR>
Spinward Main and within Jump 1 distnce of 4 planets. The<BR>
BtC description indicates that Carse itself does not have<BR>
a lot of exports but we know that it probably sees a lot<BR>
of Jump 1 traffic pass through.<BR>
<BR>
Using Far Trader we (laboriously) calculate that Carse<BR>
has minor trade routes with Lunion, Capon, Strouden, <BR>
Adabicci, Heroni (and possibly some more beyond Jump-6).<BR>
Far Trader defines a minor route as one with hundreds to<BR>
(low) thousands) of displacement tons of cargo per<BR>
week on these routes. It has about half a dozen liners and<BR>
as many  tramp ships on the route, all are well under<BR>
1,000 tons. Larger vessels are rarely seen. We note that<BR>
Al Morai's freight headquarters are on Shirene which is<BR>
only jump 1 away, however canon indicates that Al Morai<BR>
vessels are typically capable of better than Jump 1 so <BR>
we decide that Al Morai vessels are rarely seen on Carse.<BR>
<BR>
Far Trader indicates that per capita income is Cr 2,928.<BR>
[Striker or Trillion Credit Squadron would give higher<BR>
figures but they would be in local credits. We decide to go<BR>
with Far Trader]<BR>
<BR>
This indicates a GWP of MCr 18.84. We arbitrarily decide that,<BR>
having little on planet threats, the majority of Carse's<BR>
military budget goes to their "Navy" - two TL 9 pinnaces<BR>
with week single lasers. Given Carse's limited income they <BR>
can barely afford to support one pinnace at a time, so the <BR>
other is kept in storage. Ground forces consist of a single<BR>
squad sized unit of police officers with no armored<BR>
vehicles and only limited heavy weapons. In an emergency<BR>
Carse could muster a company sized unit of militia. If invaded<BR>
they might be able to muster, but not arm, an additional<BR>
company or two of partisans.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
	pnewman@gci.net		Peter Newman<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding.  I<BR>
mean all you had to do was admit you were wrong and I was <BR>
right and everything wouldve been fine. Ivanova to Winters<BR>
in Babylon 5 Divided Loyalties<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:10:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:43:11 -0500 (EST), Bruce Johnson<BR>
> <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>> >> Boiled shark fins?<BR>
>  <BR>
>>> >Sounds Ok<BR>
>  <BR>
>>> This, I don't really see a problem with.<BR>
><BR>
>>Sigh. If you knew how they _harvested_ those things you sure as heck<BR>
>>would! Even if you don't LIKE sharks, it's a horrifically cruel way of<BR>
>>doing it.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> (N.B. It should be noted that I have _not_, as of this date, ever<BR>
> knowingly consumed shark-fin soup - mostly due to lack of<BR>
> opportunity.  My remarks above were intended to indicate that,<BR>
> _considered_as_food_, I do not experience the squeamishness that<BR>
> I would with, say, bird-nest soup.)<BR>
<BR>
As I noted in another message, I think what he's upset about is the<BR>
practice of catching the shark, cutting off the fins (which are *very*<BR>
valuable) And then *dumping* the rest of the carcass (wasting all those<BR>
shark steaks and shark livers, simply because they don't bring high<BR>
prices). <BR>
<BR>
I think a lot a fisheries would be in *much* better shape if fisshing<BR>
vessels had to adhere to rules similar to the ones most states have for<BR>
hunters. Basicly, if it's edible, you *will* take it home. And see that<BR>
it gets eaten. By people.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:15:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> "The sea is endless" <BR>
><BR>
> "There are always more fish in the sea" <BR>
><BR>
> No, there aren't, not when you have agricultural and sewage runoff<BR>
> turning large sections of coastal waters into anaerobic dead zones (like<BR>
> the once hugely productive Long Island Sound), we're draining the<BR>
> coastal lowlands as fast as we can for suburbs and Wal-Marts without<BR>
> knowing that they were really, REALLY important for maintaining livable<BR>
> ecosystems for large numbers of species, and you have factory trawlers<BR>
> that catch everything living above a few inches in size in areas that<BR>
> amount to many cubic miles of ocean, wrecking the seabottoms (another<BR>
> place that turns out to be a lot more important than we thought) as they<BR>
> go.<BR>
><BR>
> Feed a man a fish, you feed him for a day.<BR>
> Teach him to fish, you feed him for life.<BR>
> Teach him to use factory ships, his descendents ask 'Where are all the<BR>
> fish?'<BR>
><BR>
> obTrav<BR>
><BR>
> By the time we reach the stars, I _hope_ we've learned a few lessons<BR>
> about this sort of stuff. <BR>
><BR>
> Is the Mercantilist Imperium sufficiently versed in the Long View that<BR>
> they realize that ecologies are not endlessly adaptable, abusable and<BR>
> harvestable, and that limits have to be placed to ensure continued<BR>
> productivity? <BR>
><BR>
> Or are all those desert, industrial, or poor worlds out there the result<BR>
> of the collision of TL-15 harvesting methods with TL-0 planning? <BR>
<BR>
I fully expect that there *are* world that have undergone<BR>
eco-catastophes in the early days, But by the time we are playing, they<BR>
are hard wwon *lessons* (rather like the Dustbowl in the US, only, I<BR>
hope with more staying power since they *didn't* recover).<BR>
<BR>
If I ever start detailing some worlds, I need to do a couple of those.<BR>
They'll be scare stories far beyond things like Chernobyl or Love<BR>
Canal. And they'll be the result of more subtle errors. <BR>
<BR>
IMTU no world other than possibly the real "garden worlds" treats<BR>
ecological effects lightly. And the more "marginal" the ecology is, the<BR>
more they protect it. This will be a hard won lesson. Continually<BR>
re-inforced by the once every few years news stories about an outpost<BR>
or base somewhere that required a completely artificial environment,<BR>
(complete with air and water recycling on-site) that made a tiny goof<BR>
that managed to kill many if not all of them between visits by supply<BR>
ships. <BR>
<BR>
That sort of failure will be about as common as the sort of major<BR>
accidents that we here about on nationwide news. Rather than a<BR>
pipeline or train exploding, it'll be something killing the plants<BR>
that regen the air...<BR>
<BR>
Companies doing unapproved dumping or processing that affects the<BR>
eco-system sometime never have the responsible parties on-site make it<BR>
to trial. They tend to get *lynched*. (Think of the way most desert<BR>
peoples would deal with someone doing something that ruined a well)<BR>
<BR>
An intersting way of getting this across to players might be having<BR>
them hear a news story about a near disaster on a planet they visted a<BR>
few worlds back. Then they hear that *they* are wanted for<BR>
questioning.... <BR>
<BR>
1. It's just a routine check confirming that they didn't dump anything<BR>
   except via the approved waste rececyling systems, and didn't offload<BR>
   any cargo other than what's on the manifest.<BR>
<BR>
2. Like number 1, except they suspect something in the cargo. They<BR>
   questiion the PCs until they've gotten everything the PCs can recall<BR>
   about the shipper. Later, they may hear about a trial. It's unlikely<BR>
   that they'd be called as witnesses, their sworn depositions will do.<BR>
<BR>
3. Like number 1, except there are questions regarding the waste fed<BR>
   into the recycling systems at the port. The PCs can explain the odd<BR>
   readings (the cook dumped some kimchee that'd gone bad... :-)<BR>
<BR>
4. Like #3, but the players get a small fine for getting the wrong kind<BR>
   of waste into a disposal system. "Yes, oil is organic. But<BR>
   *lubricating* oil doesn't go into the "organics" sump, it goes into<BR>
   the *chemicals* sump, because of the additives and metal particles!"<BR>
<BR>
5. Like #4, but the players get a *big* fine. "You dumped cleaning<BR>
   solvents into the *sewage* system! That killed the algae in number 5<BR>
   processing tank! We lost 10% of air recycling capacity..."<BR>
<BR>
6. Like #2, except that the PCs answers about the cargo *don't* satisfy<BR>
   the questioners. The cargo is *definitely* the source of whatever<BR>
   caused the disaster, and the info the players have doesn't check out<BR>
   (they were set up).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:10:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Far Frontiers Sector<BR>
<BR>
Help!  Someone asked me about the Far Frontiers Sector yesterday, but now<BR>
that I have found what I was looking for, the request email message has<BR>
evaporated.  Was it anyone on this list?  Email me directly.<BR>
<BR>
ct@downport.com<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
www.downport.com<BR>
The Traveller Domain<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:15:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
This reply has also been sent to the newsgroups.<BR>
On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:03:24 +1200 in the rec.games.frp.gurps<BR>
newsgroup, "Simon" <corwin@voyager.co.nz> wrote;<BR>
<BR>
> Dalton Spence <ag775@james.hwcn.org> wrote in message<BR>
> news:8b2bp5$8he@james.hwcn.org...<BR>
> > I suppose this is technically a Traveller question, but since it's<BR>
> > GURPS Traveller I know, I'll ask it here. What happens to something<BR>
> > (such as an auxilary vehicle or a person in a vac-suit) that leaves<BR>
> > the protection of a startship in Jump space? If a vehicle that is<BR>
> > externally attached (such as a lighter attached to a LASH tender) is<BR>
> > jettisoned, does the change in external volume effect the jump?<BR>
<BR>
> This is the sort of thing I'm talking about... there's always a wrinkle.<BR>
> In my case I'd make that a misjump depending on how much mass was lost and<BR>
> if any of the jump-web (?) was lost. Any vehicles jettisoned into J-space<BR>
> are lost for good... people are similarily lost. Keep space clean - dump in<BR>
> jump.<BR>
<BR>
I just subscribed to TML (the Traveller mailing list for us GURPS<BR>
types) a couple of days ago, and one concept that appears repeatedly<BR>
is that a "lanathium(sp?) grid" in hull of the jumpship conducts the<BR>
energy to open the hole into jump space and protects the vessel from<BR>
its effects. If so, does this mean *every* auxilary vehicle that may<BR>
be carried in an external cradle must have such a grid in its hull<BR>
whether it is jump capable or not? Are external vehicle cradles (and<BR>
by extension LASH tenders) even *allowed* in canonical Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              | The chicken from the Hotel California will go to |<BR>
              |               Lake Geneva. FNORD!                |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:03:35 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
Dalton Spence wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
> > > I suppose this is technically a Traveller question, but since it's<BR>
> > > GURPS Traveller I know, I'll ask it here. What happens to something<BR>
> > > (such as an auxilary vehicle or a person in a vac-suit) that leaves<BR>
> > > the protection of a startship in Jump space? If a vehicle that is<BR>
> > > externally attached (such as a lighter attached to a LASH tender) is<BR>
> > > jettisoned, does the change in external volume effect the jump?<BR>
> <BR>
> > This is the sort of thing I'm talking about... there's always a wrinkle.<BR>
> > In my case I'd make that a misjump depending on how much mass was lost and<BR>
> > if any of the jump-web (?) was lost. Any vehicles jettisoned into J-space<BR>
> > are lost for good... people are similarily lost. Keep space clean - dump in<BR>
> > jump.<BR>
> <BR>
> I just subscribed to TML (the Traveller mailing list for us GURPS<BR>
> types) a couple of days ago, and one concept that appears repeatedly<BR>
> is that a "lanathium(sp?) grid" in hull of the jumpship conducts the<BR>
> energy to open the hole into jump space and protects the vessel from<BR>
> its effects. If so, does this mean *every* auxilary vehicle that may<BR>
> be carried in an external cradle must have such a grid in its hull<BR>
> whether it is jump capable or not? Are external vehicle cradles (and<BR>
> by extension LASH tenders) even *allowed* in canonical Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Here are my opinions of the questions raised:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Anyone exposed to jumpspace will probably (>99.99% chance) die a<BR>
horrible death (note that one person surviving exposure to jumpspace was<BR>
an Imperium-wide news story).<BR>
<BR>
2.  Non-starships launched into jumpspace either will be lost forever in<BR>
jumpspace (no active jump drive to enable them to reenter N-space), or<BR>
will immediately "enjoy" a catastrophic reentry into N-space.  As per<BR>
point #1 above, any living creatures aboard said non-starships will die<BR>
a horrible death.<BR>
<BR>
3.  Dumping _any amount_ of material from a starship into jumpspace will<BR>
probably result in a misjump (roll 16+ on 3D to avoid), due to<BR>
disruption of the jump bubble and change in mass.<BR>
<BR>
4.  The proper spelling is "lanthanum."<BR>
<BR>
5.  External cradles are allowed in Traveller (for instance, High Guard<BR>
[LBB 5] includes a hull configuration of "Open Configuration).  My take<BR>
would be that such ships have retractable Jump grid awnings covering the<BR>
external cradles, thus including the carried craft in the jump bubble,<BR>
without requiring them to have jump grids themselves.  This meshes (pun<BR>
intended) with the description in CT Supplement 9 of a jump ship<BR>
equipped with a "jump mesh", which is deployed around external cargoes,<BR>
to enable the ship to jump carrying such cargoes.  Of course, as always,<BR>
YMMV.  Caveat emptor.  Things fall apart.  The center cannot hold. <BR>
Burma Shave.<BR>
<BR>
6.  Welcome aboard the TML!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:34:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why X-Boat routes are Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> This is like saying that since the old highway still runs through town,<BR>
>> you don't need to worry abou the fact that the new Interstate runs thru<BR>
>> a different town, after all, there are still roads connecting them.<BR>
><BR>
> The change isn't going to happen overnight. Historically, it seems <BR>
> to me that in the US, when a new highway gets built, it's the people <BR>
> in the path of the *new* one who get more upset (because their towns <BR>
> are suddenly more popular) than the people who have now been relegated <BR>
> to "backwater" status. <BR>
<BR>
You haven't seen news coverage of public meetings about relocating<BR>
highways. Once a small town has been on the highway for a while, losing<BR>
it will mean losing a *lot* of income. <BR>
<BR>
And though they'll never admit it, a lot of small towns on *highways*<BR>
get a lot of income from speedtraps. :-) The interstate removes most of<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:11:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Here's something else to think about:<BR>
><BR>
> I won't quibble that many things about the Third Imperium are<BR>
> different from our own culture in outward appearance, but do they<BR>
> make a practical difference to the average Imperial citizen?<BR>
<BR>
It's more than quibbling. If the Imperium is significantly different in<BR>
outward appearances, it's significantly different culturally. Those elements<BR>
of outward appearance which we have "quibbled" on will influence culture,<BR>
and the culture of the Imperium will influence the outward appearance.<BR>
<BR>
Cultures aren't static. They change. The appearance of people like Dulinor,<BR>
groups like the Ine Givar could be one small part of a larger cultural<BR>
change, or they could be complete "cultural mutants" who just have crazy<BR>
ideas in their heads. Don't laugh, even Egypt, one of the most stable and<BR>
static civilizations in history had a "black sheep" like this in the person<BR>
of Ankhnaton.<BR>
<BR>
Canonically, the people who try to pick up the pieces of the Imperium, the<BR>
Reformation Coalition and the post-reform Regency are a little more similar<BR>
to us, culturally, in many ways than the original Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
> Does the average citizen care that he is living a prosperous life by<BR>
> the grace of his nobles rather than because of a legal document?<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure what you're talking about, exactly. Most of the citizens of the<BR>
Imperium live on worlds with truly bizarre types of governments, and a<BR>
number are portrayed as downright hellish.<BR>
<BR>
If you're talking about the overarching, and fuzzy, "Imperial culture" which<BR>
we have been discussing at greater length in another thread, maybe, maybe<BR>
not. For example, I don't believe that I ever mentioned any legal documents<BR>
in my posts. This was for a reason. I'm not falling back on legal documents.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine that, tomorrow, an old style Pharoah seized power in America. What<BR>
do you think the response would be? Initially, you'd have a lot of people<BR>
talking about personal freedom, democratic ideals, and so on.<BR>
<BR>
Now, imagine the Pharoah was able to weather the blows his opponents threw<BR>
at him, and he actually did a pretty good job. Under the rule of this<BR>
God-King, people prospered, and they learned to accept their lot in life.<BR>
<BR>
They may be prosperous, but the culture of America would be different. As<BR>
successive dynasties came and went, the widely held belief that the people<BR>
should rule democratically would become less and less popular, it might even<BR>
die out. This would be significant.<BR>
<BR>
Our political language is one of contrasts with what we see as more or less<BR>
desirable systems of government. This would significantly change the culture<BR>
of America to the point that if we were transported to this alternate<BR>
reality it would be difficult for us to orient ourselves, it would be, in a<BR>
very real sense, alien to us.<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, if tomorrow all of the democratic institutions in America were to<BR>
suddently become aristocratic or monarchical, things would look a lot<BR>
different 30 years down the line than just having leaders with names like<BR>
Queen Chelsea of the Clinton dynasty and Duke McCain of Arizona.<BR>
<BR>
In other words, governments and cultures are linked and are probably<BR>
impossible to seperate from each other. Both can change, but significant<BR>
changes in one generate significant changes in the other. Certain types of<BR>
government have certain underlying cultural assumptions, and these<BR>
assumptions are so ingrained that even when people argue that they're not<BR>
there they use the vocabulary attached to them.<BR>
<BR>
On your line, the moot became a representative body and the nobles became<BR>
representatives of the people. Russell responded that he could accept an<BR>
aristocratic form of government if the people were able to cashier them in<BR>
some fashion, and so on.<BR>
<BR>
These are *radical ideas* in the eyes of a government like the Imperium. I<BR>
don't know if I can stress that enough, and it supports my initial point,<BR>
which was that the Third Imperium is a pretty alien place. It's difficult to<BR>
even talk about the Imperium without translating its institutions into<BR>
"democracy speak", and then point out, because they've been translated into<BR>
the same vocabulary, that they are pretty much the same institutions that<BR>
exist in western democracies.<BR>
<BR>
> Are there any significant barriers in the Third Imperium to living a<BR>
> lifestyle similar to our own, here in Western countries at the end of<BR>
> the 20th Century?<BR>
<BR>
Again, it depends on the situation. Individual planets have wildly varying<BR>
types of government. I don't know how one lives in a "feudal technocracy,"<BR>
and there are a few types of government on the list that seem rather<BR>
unpleasant.<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium is only partially upwardly mobile. Noble titles are hard to<BR>
come by, and it seems that the over-arching culture of the Imperium is more<BR>
like the British Empire in the 19th century, or Rome at some periods during<BR>
its history. I'm getting ahead of myself.<BR>
<BR>
You have to be able to get off your planet in the first place. Than can be<BR>
difficult, because you may be on a planet in which a brutal war is being<BR>
fought as the government of the Imperium looks on. On the other hand, you<BR>
may live on a restrictive world on which your every move is scrutinized and<BR>
closely watched, and you can't get within 100 miles of a Starport. Even if<BR>
you could, you might not be able to afford travel off world.<BR>
<BR>
Once you do get offworld, you meet with the culture of the Third Imperium.<BR>
This culture is a mish-mash of spacers of all sorts, though the primary<BR>
types are merchants living cargo-run to cargo-run, and mercenaries getting<BR>
rich off of the misery of the populations of Imperial worlds.<BR>
<BR>
You *might* manage to find your way into over-arching Imperial culture. You<BR>
might have the right stuff to go into one of the Imperial armed services,<BR>
and this might allow you to acquire the skills, contacts and general<BR>
knowledge which are required to make a life for yourself in the stars. Then<BR>
again, you might die, receive a serious injury, or get discharged after a<BR>
year or so. You might be stuck on garrison duty for 8 years and acquire no<BR>
skills whatsoever. In a general sense, this model is much closer to the<BR>
Roman empire than anything else.<BR>
<BR>
A merchant ship might need an unskilled, or semi-skilled laborer. You might<BR>
be lucky and fit the bill. You could spend the rest of your days jumping<BR>
from planet to planet in search of the elusive credit. Competition might<BR>
drive the merchant ship you're on to piracy, or out of business.<BR>
<BR>
At any rate, you might become a "John Doe" in the alley behind a bar on a<BR>
TL5 world because someone really wanted your all-purpose handy-dandy<BR>
wristwatch.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, you might find yourself in some "Other" career. You could have<BR>
what it takes to con and defraud your way across the worlds of the Imperium.<BR>
You might end up a big crime boss, or a highly skilled cat burglar... or you<BR>
could end up in prison, or shot through the head by a hit man.<BR>
<BR>
> If there are not, then could the culture of the Third Imperium be<BR>
> described as similar to our own on a practical level?<BR>
<BR>
Even in the current state of the Imperium, which takes a number of cues from<BR>
modernity, it can't be said to be similar to our own culture on either a<BR>
practical level or a theoretical level.<BR>
<BR>
Can you become prosperous in the Imperium? Yeah, sure. You could also become<BR>
prosperous as a San hunter-gatherer, or an Athenian citizen in classical<BR>
Greece (in classical Athens you could even become prosperous if you were a<BR>
non-citizen, lots of non-citizens made lots of money there). You could<BR>
become prosperous as a pre-Judaic Hebrew, an Egyptian shopkeeper.<BR>
<BR>
None of these cultures look anything like each other, except in superficial<BR>
ways. "They're all human cultures," you may say, or "theft is a crime in all<BR>
of them", to which I say, "So what?"<BR>
<BR>
You can get a McDonald's hamburger in China, America, Germany and many other<BR>
countries. The burger will probably taste similar, but the culture you chomp<BR>
on it in will be vastly different. I'm not even talking about "simple"<BR>
things, like the language barrier.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:22:30 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
>     One of the biggest advantages to "conversion" is that the d20<BR>
> system is fully integrated as far as skills and combat go and both<BR>
> Traveller and D&D use a "class-based" system- albeit, Traveller's<BR>
> is a bit looser :-)<BR>
<BR>
I have to completely disagree that Traveller uses a class-based system.<BR>
<BR>
Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
careers, which you can easily move between. Admittedly the CT rules didn't<BR>
talk much about moving between careers, but they didn't explicitly forbid<BR>
it. Later systems (TNE) expected changes in career.<BR>
<BR>
D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
Of course, AD&D 3 may change this, I don't know, but I doubt very much that<BR>
TSR will drop it's level based systesm, especially as people are saying<BR>
AD&D3 is similar to Alternity which still has levels.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2172<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2173<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Clones...<BR>
TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
Re: Vilani Font?...<BR>
RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism and populations in the Imperium<BR>
RE: Populations of the Imperium<BR>
Re:Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
Me silly - more info needed<BR>
Re: Populations [Was Re: Cultural relativism]<BR>
Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
Officers with their naught poking bits<BR>
re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism and populations in the Imperium<BR>
Re: N class stars<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:36:33 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Clones...<BR>
<BR>
Yes.  Right from the very start of my GM'ing Traveller, I stipulated to<BR>
everyone involved that, every clich they could think of is likely to be<BR>
found in several systems across the Imperium - Nazi rulers, Utopian worlds,<BR>
medieval knights with lasers, Amazon worlds, Slave worlds, gay worlds,<BR>
whatever, laws could be different, military, police, and governments might<BR>
work differently, medicine could be different, unemployment, etc... and<BR>
though I never had to use many, they were never shocked when I did throw in<BR>
clichs or juggle accepted norms into the bizarre - but they ALWAYS told me<BR>
it gave them a buzz when I did as they knew it was how things "are" in the<BR>
3I.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
The best way is often to change something "everyone" takes for granted.<BR>
Describe it correctly, and when the players go "What!?" point out that<BR>
to their *characters* this is normal.<BR>
<BR>
Don't beat them over the head, just jar them a bit, so they will<BR>
*remember* this isn't necessarily modern day Earth with spaceships and<BR>
a different government.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:41:23 -0500<BR>
From: Peter Miller <thegolem@mindless.com><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
<BR>
Hi,<BR>
<BR>
How much are we trying to stand by previously published canon when <BR>
detailing worlds for the Landgrab?  I mean, I don't have Behind the Claw, <BR>
but does it have UWPs (or the GURPS equivalent) for all Spinward Marches <BR>
worlds? Do they stand by previous UWPs from earlier Traveller material?<BR>
<BR>
Basically, I want to claim a world for the Landgrab, but I don't want to <BR>
contradict everything published already!<BR>
<BR>
Peter<BR>
__________________________Peter J. Miller<BR>
thegolem@mindless.com        ICQ #5294589<BR>
<BR>
"Loneliness is not a phase..."<BR>
          - 'Angry Chair', Alice in Chains<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:52:22 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font?...<BR>
<BR>
And I simply unzipped it directly into my Fonts folder (c:\windows\fonts),<BR>
it's there and works fine for me.  Obviously the zip came down okay, did it?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 2:29 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Vilani Font?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Don't know 'bout anyone else, but I always do the file / install new font<BR>
> thing.  It'll show up as Bilanidin Bold.<BR>
><BR>
> Best,<BR>
> Jesse<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:55:28 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Frank said:<BR>
>I have to completely disagree that Traveller uses a class-based system.<BR>
><BR>
>Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
>careers, which you can easily move between...<BR>
><BR>
>D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
<BR>
This is the biggest difference between the systems. In the fudge our group used,<BR>
we simply made the following rule:<BR>
"All characters are classed as "fighters" for the purposes of hit points, level<BR>
gain, THACO, saving throws, etc."<BR>
(especially since we had been using MT, with no rules for changing careers).<BR>
From memory, the PCs converted over at 1 term = 1 level.<BR>
<BR>
You still had to pick weapons and non-weapon skills. We never got around to<BR>
figuring out "how many" you could have, since all we really wanted was a<BR>
quick-and-dirty conversion of their current Trav characters.<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, AD&D 3 may change this...<BR>
<BR>
No, it won't The "sacred cows" of D&D are class and level. And "rolling that<BR>
d20". As I understand it, they have managed to shoehorn a skill system onto the<BR>
new version of the game as well. Hopefully it works better than the old<BR>
proficiency system. Comments, Jesse?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:08:49 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
> >     One of the biggest advantages to "conversion" is that the d20<BR>
> > system is fully integrated as far as skills and combat go and both<BR>
> > Traveller and D&D use a "class-based" system- albeit, Traveller's<BR>
> > is a bit looser :-)<BR>
><BR>
> I have to completely disagree that Traveller uses a class-based system.<BR>
><BR>
> Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
> careers, which you can easily move between. Admittedly the CT rules didn't<BR>
> talk much about moving between careers, but they didn't explicitly forbid<BR>
> it. Later systems (TNE) expected changes in career.<BR>
><BR>
> D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
> Of course, AD&D 3 may change this, I don't know, but I doubt very much that<BR>
> TSR will drop it's level based systesm, especially as people are saying<BR>
> AD&D3 is similar to Alternity which still has levels.<BR>
<BR>
I read some of the draft D&D3 material on some website (they're dropping<BR>
the "A").  It still has the classes, levels, and race. But, that isn't the same<BR>
as<BR>
the D20 system.  The D20 system will, from what I gather, be the generic<BR>
task resolution system underneath the content, built upon the skills and<BR>
standard 6 TSR stats ranging from 3-18, that we all know so well.<BR>
While levels are certainly a part of D&D, what isn't clear is whether levels<BR>
is part of the D20 system.  I doubt that it is, but I don't know.<BR>
<BR>
This site has some info on the beta materials: http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/<BR>
Check the Character link.  From what is described, even though classes still<BR>
exist, a lot is being done to undermine classes as a meaningful thing, within<BR>
the game mechanics.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the Open D20 system is by no means a certainty at this point.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:40:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> On Behalf Of Rob Miracle<BR>
><BR>
>> Well, I'm a pretty busy guy, but we got talking about it at work<BR>
>> today and I think I'm going to grab . . .<BR>
>><BR>
>> Milagro/District 268<BR>
>><BR>
>> After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
>><BR>
>> Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with<BR>
>> a fraction of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
><BR>
> Pretty simple really, it's a miracle.<BR>
><BR>
> Think loaves & fishes.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course as this is Traveller, there has to be a dirty secret somewhere....<BR>
<BR>
Think "mining & refining". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:17:34 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism and populations in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
In Re the "average" world population in the Imperium:<BR>
<BR>
The following is based on my data, which still needs a lot of massaging, but<BR>
may provide food for thought:<BR>
<BR>
The chart below lists the population level, number of worlds with that<BR>
level, and the percentage of the total worlds (8931 worlds)<BR>
<BR>
0    238    2.9%<BR>
1    432    4.84%<BR>
2    678    7.59%<BR>
3    904   10.12%<BR>
4    1348 15.09%<BR>
5    1400 15.68%<BR>
6    1196 13.39%<BR>
7    1014 11.35%<BR>
8    855    9.57%<BR>
9    605    6.77%<BR>
A    238   2.66%<BR>
- ---------<BR>
8931 total worlds<BR>
<BR>
Total Pop: 14,718,054,476,355 (calculated by taking 10^Population Level *<BR>
Popmultiple, where I had data)<BR>
<BR>
Avg Pop is 1,647,973,852<BR>
Mode is 699,100,000 (1400 Occurences)<BR>
Median Population is actually 80!<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:51:49 -0500<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Populations of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Just want to apologise for some errors in my last post:<BR>
<BR>
Median Population of the Imperium is 700,000...the field I was checking had<BR>
some bad errors.<BR>
<BR>
Total Population and world counts are OK though.<BR>
<BR>
I thought the original median (80) was weird, but it checked when I looked<BR>
at the table. The table had bad numbers, though.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:35:22 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:Gay Empress and the political opposition<BR>
<BR>
Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > You do realize that your use of the phrase "goes both ways"<BR>
> > is a discussion of people who self identify as homosexual<BR>
> > or heterosexual is 1) funny and 2) begs the question of the<BR>
> > validity of these self identifications.<BR>
<BR>
> But the problem is that there is really only one way to<BR>
> categorize people as homo, hetro or whateveroand that's<BR>
> by asking them.<BR>
<BR>
I disagree that this is the only way of categorizing people,<BR>
although it may be the best way in this case.<BR>
<BR>
Another way of categorizing people is to define your categories<BR>
ahead of time, survey people about their behavior and feelings,<BR>
and then assign them to the category they best fit in. Different<BR>
situations will require different survey methodologies.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:08:24 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Persky <ouroboros@mail.utexas.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:03:35 -0600<BR>
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<snip><BR>
> 1.  Anyone exposed to jumpspace will probably (>99.99% chance) die a<BR>
> horrible death (note that one person surviving exposure to jumpspace was<BR>
> an Imperium-wide news story).<BR>
<BR>
    Since I'm not half the grognard most of the population of this list is,<BR>
and I'm cursed with curiosity to boot, I have to ask -- who was this, and<BR>
when did the incident happen?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:34:45 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Me silly - more info needed<BR>
<BR>
Re: Officers & swords<BR>
<BR>
<< Or - why officers kept their swords when muskets dominated the<BR>
battlefield.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I think the reason officers kept their swords is because they give<BR>
you something cool to wave around and inspire the men (and they still have<BR>
some uses well into the 19th century). The guys who keep the troops in the<BR>
line and prevent them from running are the NCOs with their spontoons (a<BR>
short, spear-like weapon).<BR>
<BR>
Mainly what keeps troops from hot-footing it is training and discipline, and<BR>
a desire not to let their comrades down, and a feeling that if you run the<BR>
enemy cavalry will run you down and skewer you for sure.<BR>
<BR>
Deserting on the march is a matter for the provost martial's men.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Whoops - I meant to qualify that. The drivelly bits I went on with was for<BR>
Frederick the Great's armies - different in nature and all round decency<BR>
from other units in that area. They generally only, it seems, recruited scum<BR>
and dregs - plus the whole strict social barriers from officers and<BR>
enlistees meant a lot me of the Them Vs Us stuff was happening. Didn't know<BR>
about the spear thang though.<BR>
<BR>
BTW There were several instances in the period of sides parleying before the<BR>
shoot off, offering to each other the chance to 'shoot first'. Apparently he<BR>
that went second got to get in closer while the others were loading on up so<BR>
as to improve the effect of their volley.<BR>
<BR>
Cool scene - like the gay squirrels - 'on no after you', 'please I insist'<BR>
etc.<BR>
<BR>
But as for sword waving to show the way - you bet. I mean try and spot a<BR>
hand when you're in a three rank line - hey a sword - I guess we go that<BR>
way.  Make's sense.<BR>
<BR>
And yeah - the training and the discipline was to keep keep em in a line -<BR>
apparently a minimum of 2 years effort per trooper (which is another reason<BR>
they stopped the leg it factor).<BR>
<BR>
Isn't history great!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:17:53 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Populations [Was Re: Cultural relativism]<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:03:48 -0900<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Populations [Was Re: Cultural relativism]<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Most Traveller worlds simply will not exhibit the cultural<BR>
>diversity found on the Earth today. Most Traveller worlds<BR>
>are more likely to exhibit the diversity found in very small<BR>
>countries, small US states, or large cities - simply because<BR>
>they will typically have five to six hundred thousand people.<BR>
><BR>
>It is just as likely (one chance in twelve) that a planet<BR>
>will have a population of less than 100 people (Pop 0 or 1)<BR>
>as a population of 1,000,000,000+ (Pop 9 or A).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
My mistake. I did in fact miss the gist of your origional post.<BR>
I blame (the cold) virus for that. But as to smaller population<BR>
planets being more homogenous it's not necesarily so.<BR>
Case in point: the great state of Colorado, USA. A small<BR>
part of a much larger country Colorado has several distinct<BR>
subcultures ranging from the wheat farming comunities of<BR>
the Eastern Plains through the city of Denver and it's environs<BR>
on the Eastern Slope and the Tourist Mechas of Vail and Aspen<BR>
to the Ranchers, Miners, and Mormans of the Western Slope.<BR>
Sprinkle a large Mexican American population throughout and<BR>
you get a quite diverse society wrapped up in a pop of<BR>
6 (multiplier of 2.)<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand In a Traveller game it makes sense to<BR>
focus on the charecter of any dominant cultural constituents<BR>
of a planet and ignore the many emigrees that will doubtless<BR>
populate all but the most backwoods of backwater planets<BR>
and infect their societies with diversity aplenty.<BR>
<BR>
Let us now chant the mantra<BR>
yourtravelleruniversemayvary<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:35:51 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:13:53 -0800<BR>
>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: TFT Traveler<BR>
><BR>
>DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Ok I realize this is silly but...<BR>
>><BR>
>> A recent thread on rec.games.board discusing the relative<BR>
>> merits of Melee/Wizard/The Fantasy Trip vs Gurps as a<BR>
>> rule system. One of the posters noted that Gurps is an<BR>
>> evolutionary decendant of TFT. This got me to thinking...<BR>
>> why not TFT Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
>Well for one it give the Zodani way too much power...<BR>
><BR>
>Think of it...<BR>
><BR>
>When you run out of IQ for skill You have to go to<BR>
>them to help you forget you knew how to do it...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Pish. 2 skills per point of INT gives slightly more<BR>
skills than Int+Edu from MT. Or invent a new drug<BR>
"Mind Wipe" TL9, very rare, cost Cr.10,000. User<BR>
loses one skill level of choice per dose taken.<BR>
Note that long term abuse destroys an individuals<BR>
ability to function in any manner whatsoever. Because<BR>
of this the drug is illegal on many worlds (and sought<BR>
by underworld types intent on personal protection.)<BR>
<BR>
I must confess that though I mentioned the<BR>
idea I'm in the rather dificult position of working<BR>
from less than the full set of materials for TFT.<BR>
Anybody know where I could get the advanced books<BR>
cheep?<BR>
<BR>
Let us now chant the mantra<BR>
yourtravelleruniversemayvary<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:47:45 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:37:17 -0600<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: songs<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Gee, thanks, Loren.  Since I only remembered part of the lyrics, I was<BR>
>able to get that song out of my head within a couple of hours.  Now that<BR>
>you've posted the lyrics in all their hideous "glory", it'll probably<BR>
>take me a week to subdue the beast.<BR>
><BR>
>Remind me to write and post a Traveller filk to some truly obnoxious<BR>
>song, as revenge (I'm currently thinking of one to *shudder* Neil<BR>
>Diamond's "Sweet Caroline" [working title:  "Tukera Lines"]).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You sir are a truly evil man. Due to your attempt at revenge against<BR>
a single individual I (and I suspect many others on this list) are<BR>
going to have to try to get to sleep with "Tukera Lines" running through<BR>
our heads. If you had had the common courtesy to provide us with<BR>
a fully realized filk perhaps we could avoid the unpleasant repetition<BR>
of the single phrase that we have been infected with.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Is this how TNE's Virus was spread?<BR>
<BR>
Let us now chant the mantra<BR>
yourtravelleruniversemayvary<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:50:44 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
> I've got a pile of World War One magazines with lots of cartoons, though you<BR>
> have to realize that many cartoons from that era were rather blunt and<BR>
> jingoistic. Lots of "Huns" being portrayed as ravenous animals about to rape<BR>
> a scantily clad female "England", that sort of thing. Though there are one<BR>
> two very sharp jabs at British politicians and allies as well.<BR>
> <BR>
> Is copyright 70 years in England ?<BR>
> That would put all this stuff in the public domain.<BR>
<BR>
As far as I understand it last for 50 years after the death of the copyright<BR>
holder.  Don't know how that holds if the copyright is held by a corporation or<BR>
trust.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone know any better, please enlighten us. ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:58:35 +0000<BR>
From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
> >As everyone seems to be on a Germanic slant....<BR>
> >nb:  this is not intended to offend !!<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT<BR>
> ><BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
LOL, ROLFMAO<BR>
I don't read the TML with the keyboard exposed ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:07:31 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Officers with their naught poking bits<BR>
<BR>
Ah, the famous "officers killing their own men" legend. This crops up in<BR>
every era, in every army.<BR>
<BR>
With a very few exceptions, armies do not kill their own troops on the<BR>
battlefield (intentionaly, that is.) Any army that began this practise<BR>
would soon have lots of dead officers and troops heading over the hill.<BR>
<BR>
Napoleonic armies were actually well trained and disciplined, and compared<BR>
to the average peasant had a very good life. Regular meals that included<BR>
meat and lots of free booze, plus the right to loot towns along your line<BR>
of march!<BR>
<BR>
Doug The Penguin<BR>
<BR>
It's not that they did kill their own men- more a deterrent against them<BR>
running - ie I will kill you if you run- hence the sword. Oh yeah -<BR>
Fredrickian as opposed to Napoleonic - big big big difference (apparently  -<BR>
I'm only three weeks in).<BR>
<BR>
As for primitive war - Tonight on Fox; Tech 3 Pikes Vs Tech 9 Mercs - there<BR>
will be blood, Blood BLOOD'.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously some sort of censoring would be in order. I wonder if they have an<BR>
awards night?<BR>
<BR>
BTW - best discipline in a movie - Yellow Beard - Man on deck of 17th C<BR>
frigate laughs - Captain's response; 'Nail that man's feet to the deck'.<BR>
Four scenes later in a gale, he's still there.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:20:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>Who has done this, Walt? I've been following this discussion since it <BR>
>started, I have added to it, and I've seen nobody attaching "moral <BR>
>overtones" on to your statements. <BR>
<BR>
Take a look at words like "Unjust" and "Better" being applied to my<BR>
statements as if the words were synonymous with words I had chosen.<BR>
It was evident to me that my questions were stirring up moral<BR>
umbrage in responders, more than I intended, and I was allowing<BR>
myself to get led into defending arguments I really had not intended<BR>
to make in the first place. <BR>
<BR>
Chris, you already consider me to be "incredibly arrogant" when it<BR>
comes to discussing other cultures, so I don't expect you and I<BR>
to do anything but talk past each other on this. I hereby declare<BR>
you the victor, your point of view and information superior to<BR>
mine, go forth and enjoy your triumph. Me - as soon as the<BR>
blasted IBM Netfinity Server beside me starts booting properly<BR>
and works right - I'm going to bed.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:25:00 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Pish. 2 skills per point of INT gives slightly more<BR>
> skills than Int+Edu from MT.<BR>
<BR>
Yes.....<BR>
<BR>
> Or invent a new drug<BR>
> "Mind Wipe" TL9, very rare, cost Cr.10,000. User<BR>
> loses one skill level of choice per dose taken.<BR>
<BR>
Now that is an idea.<BR>
<BR>
> Note that long term abuse destroys an individuals<BR>
> ability to function in any manner whatsoever. Because<BR>
> of this the drug is illegal on many worlds (and sought<BR>
> by underworld types intent on personal protection.)<BR>
><BR>
> I must confess that though I mentioned the<BR>
> idea I'm in the rather dificult position of working<BR>
> from less than the full set of materials for TFT.<BR>
> Anybody know where I could get the advanced books<BR>
> cheep?<BR>
<BR>
Good Bloody Luck.<BR>
<BR>
Wishing I had kept a former girl friends copies longer....<BR>
<BR>
And a noght at Kinko's<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
TMLUPP:5C7A78<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Wish I was a better person...   with more control...<BR>
Turn the other cheek...   and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>
Wish I was a kinder person...   could see the others pain...<BR>
Not over react, not judge...   and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 04:42:02 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
<BR>
RPG net has a review of the CT reprint book Volume 1<BR>
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_2921.html<BR>
<BR>
I bring this up because in the discusions of the review a couple of<BR>
questions came up. The first is the ever popular "Which is the best<BR>
ruleset?"<BR>
The second is regarding UK distributorship of the reprints. I responded with<BR>
the bits@bits.org.uk address from the website but perhaps someone has<BR>
definitive information at hand regarding the distributorship situation.<BR>
<BR>
Let us now chant the mantra<BR>
yourtravelleruniversemayvary<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:38:51 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism and populations in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
VonRammen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In Re the "average" world population in the Imperium:<BR>
> <BR>
> The following is based on my data, which still needs a lot of massaging,<BR>
> but may provide food for thought:<BR>
> <BR>
> The chart below lists the population level, number of worlds with that<BR>
> level, and the percentage of the total worlds (8931 worlds)<BR>
> <BR>
> 0    238    2.9%<BR>
> 1    432    4.84%<BR>
> 2    678    7.59%<BR>
> 3    904   10.12%<BR>
> 4    1348 15.09%<BR>
> 5    1400 15.68%<BR>
> 6    1196 13.39%<BR>
> 7    1014 11.35%<BR>
> 8    855    9.57%<BR>
> 9    605    6.77%<BR>
> A    238   2.66%<BR>
> ---------<BR>
> 8931 total worlds<BR>
> <BR>
> Total Pop: 14,718,054,476,355 (calculated by taking 10^Population Level *<BR>
> Popmultiple, where I had data)<BR>
> <BR>
> Avg Pop is 1,647,973,852<BR>
> Mode is 699,100,000 (1400 Occurrences) Median Population is actually 80!<BR>
> <BR>
> Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
I'll accept your mean, but, depending on how you calculated the pop multiple,<BR>
I would expect the mode to be in the range 10,000 - 900,000, with an<BR>
occurrence rate more like 140-250 (ie, do you use d3 x d3, 3d3 or d9).<BR>
<BR>
The median would have to be between 200,000 and 600,000 since it is defined<BR>
as the 4465th value when the numbers are laid out in ascending order.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:22:20 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: N class stars<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Smart, David J (David) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hi, all<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone have an idea as to how<BR>
>common/uncommon N-class stars are?<BR>
<BR>
With N-class I presume you are talking about the spektral-class.<BR>
According to my knowledge the types R and N are now known as<BR>
C-class star or Carbon stars. <BR>
<BR>
From my text book it says<BR>
<BR>
Type C. Carbon stars, previously R and N. Very red stars, <BR>
     surface temperature about 3000K. Strong molecular bands, e.g.<BR>
     C2, CN, CH. No TiO bands. Line spectrum like the K and M <BR>
     types.<BR>
<BR>
From this information I would say that it is safe to say that <BR>
they are reather uncommon as carbon is not the most abundant <BR>
material in the universe. They must be second generation stars<BR>
(born in areas where super-novas has occured) to get the amount of<BR>
carbon needed. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>David<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2173<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2174<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: N class stars<BR>
Classic Traveller Reprint<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
Re: Greek relationships <BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: songs <BR>
Land Grab Data Mad Scramble<BR>
Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:22:20 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: N class stars<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Smart, David J (David) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hi, all<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone have an idea as to how<BR>
>common/uncommon N-class stars are?<BR>
<BR>
With N-class I presume you are talking about the spektral-class.<BR>
According to my knowledge the types R and N are now known as<BR>
C-class star or Carbon stars. <BR>
<BR>
From my text book it says<BR>
<BR>
Type C. Carbon stars, previously R and N. Very red stars, <BR>
     surface temperature about 3000K. Strong molecular bands, e.g.<BR>
     C2, CN, CH. No TiO bands. Line spectrum like the K and M <BR>
     types.<BR>
<BR>
From this information I would say that it is safe to say that <BR>
they are reather uncommon as carbon is not the most abundant <BR>
material in the universe. They must be second generation stars<BR>
(born in areas where super-novas has occured) to get the amount of<BR>
carbon needed. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>David<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:26:13 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Classic Traveller Reprint<BR>
<BR>
Hi all,<BR>
<BR>
Well, my copy of the Classic Traveller reprint arrived today from <BR>
Leisure Games in the UK (18.95 UK) and it's gorgeous. Personally, <BR>
I'd have preferred a hardback, as I worry about a softcover bound on <BR>
the thin edge.<BR>
<BR>
I actually have all the material bar Bk 7 already (yup, sad <BR>
collector) but it was nice to see it in one volume with Marc's notes <BR>
on sales expanding the front. Quality is good, and the first pages in <BR>
from the cover are a red heavy paper/card which looks quite <BR>
distinctive.<BR>
<BR>
I do notice that the FFE logo appears to be that of the Ziru Sirkaa <BR>
(I assume the Sirkaa version rather than the Sirka as this is the <BR>
*restored* grand empire of the stars).<BR>
<BR>
It's made me drool at the thought of a T5. It looks 'right'.<BR>
<BR>
Get it if you can; if you're in the UK you can get it now without <BR>
going through contortions.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:55:35 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>> As far as I can tell, the data at<BR>
>> http://www.rossmack.com/ab/RPG/traveller/<BR>
>> is accurate.<BR>
<BR>
That's my site.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks.<BR>
> I can only find the spectral data for a subsector or<BR>
> so, on the Worlds page of this site. Am I a missing<BR>
> something here?<BR>
><BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
That page ( http://www.rossmack.com/ab/RPG/traveller/AstroWorlds.asp to be<BR>
specific) contains writeups I have done of worlds for my own campaign.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone would like some ideas for worlds they may have staked, worlds<BR>
listed there are:<BR>
<BR>
Spinward Marches/Glisten/Aster<BR>
Spinward Marches/Regina/Efate<BR>
Spinward Marches/Jewell/Esalin<BR>
Spinward Marches/Mora/Fornice<BR>
Spinward Marches/Jewell/Grant<BR>
Spinward Marches/Jewell/Louzy<BR>
Spinward Marches/Jewell/Lysen<BR>
Spinward Marches/Mora/Mercury<BR>
Spinward Marches/Jewell/Nakege<BR>
Spinward Marches/Rhylanor/Rhylanor<BR>
Spinward Marches/Mora/Rorise<BR>
<BR>
Detail varies from a line or two to more extensive write ups.  I have also<BR>
included any canon references I am aware of.<BR>
<BR>
Walt:  On the stellar class question, see private forward (a bit big for the<BR>
list).<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:45:37 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
At 22:02 23.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > After ziz fifx yar ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.  Zer vil be no<BR>
> > > mor trubl or difikultis and evri vun vil find it ezi tu onderstand ech<BR>
> > > ozer. Zen ze drem vil finaly kum tru.<BR>
>That's excellent, Volker.<BR>
<BR>
;-) It was posted on the GROO-L (Groop) last week, and i thought it fit <BR>
right in with our ML as well ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:47:32 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships <BR>
<BR>
> > >> Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
> > >> Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
> > >> machen?<BR>
><BR>
>Yes but it was not my bad German instead it is what I was<BR>
>responding to. Is the translation below any better?<BR>
><BR>
>Wir wissen bereits, da das dritte Imperium wirklich ein<BR>
>Tausendjahr-Realm ist! Aber was sollten wir ber das Problem<BR>
>Droyne tun?<BR>
<BR>
Nope!<BR>
;-)<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:43:25 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
At 02:25 24.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I went through the Spinward Marches and Deneb, constructing reasonable J6<BR>
>     routes.  Non-imperial worlds were left out with the exception of<BR>
>     a client state in deneb<BR>
  I always thought X-Boat routes were Jump-5 or Jump-4 (not sure which), <BR>
but not Jump-6.<BR>
Otherwise the Imperial Familys private J-6 Network wouldnt make sense.<BR>
<BR>
The X-Boat linkup was set up, when J-6 hadnt been develpoed yet and the <BR>
cost of switching over was too high later on. The edge it gave the Nobility <BR>
was also a factor why not to improve the network...<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:56:24 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
Richard Persky wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:03:35 -0600<BR>
>> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>> Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
> <snip><BR>
>> 1.  Anyone exposed to jumpspace will probably (>99.99% chance) die a<BR>
>> horrible death (note that one person surviving exposure to jumpspace was<BR>
>> an Imperium-wide news story).<BR>
> <BR>
> Since I'm not half the grognard most of the population of this list is,<BR>
> and I'm cursed with curiosity to boot, I have to ask -- who was this, and<BR>
> when did the incident happen?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
Perhaps it was Aybee Wan Owen...from the old DGP adventures.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra<BR>
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:41:06 -0500<BR>
From: "R.D. Elliott" <rde@ican.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:40:27 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>> On Behalf Of Rob Miracle<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Well, I'm a pretty busy guy, but we got talking about it at work<BR>
>>> today and I think I'm going to grab . . .<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Milagro/District 268<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with<BR>
>>> a fraction of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
>><BR>
>> Pretty simple really, it's a miracle.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Think loaves & fishes.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Of course as this is Traveller, there has to be a dirty secret somewhere....<BR>
><BR>
>Think "mining & refining".<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	"People!  Milagro Green is PEOPLE!"<BR>
<BR>
	Sorry... I'll get off the hobby horse now.  Time for breakfast.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 03:42:35 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: songs <BR>
<BR>
> >Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote<BR>
> >Remind me to write and post a Traveller filk to some truly obnoxious<BR>
> >song, as revenge (I'm currently thinking of one to *shudder* Neil<BR>
> >Diamond's "Sweet Caroline" [working title:  "Tukera Lines"]).<BR>
<BR>
How's this?<BR>
<BR>
Aramis/Spinward Marches 307-1112	TAS News feed<BR>
<BR>
Following their loss of their recent trade war in the Spinward<BR>
Marches to Oberlindes Lines [1] Tukera Lines has attempted<BR>
to revive their corporate image in the Marches with a heavy<BR>
advertising campaign. One of the central pieces of this campaign<BR>
is a theme song "Tukera Lines" written and performed, in full<BR>
3-D-360D [2] by noted "relaxed listening" music star Sir<BR>
Eneri Iridium. We now present for the first time anywhere<BR>
"Tukera Lines' live.<BR>
<BR>
[1] The Traveller Adventure<BR>
[2] A popular TL 13+ movie format, it includes a full 360<BR>
degree 3-D image projected directly onto the viewers<BR>
eyelids.<BR>
<BR>
Tukera Lines<BR>
                Where it began<BR>
                I can't begin to knowin'<BR>
<BR>
/a sub-title appears: Tukera Lines was founded on Sylea<BR>
in -562. Tukera lines - Sixteen hundred years of excellence./<BR>
<BR>
                But then I know it's growing strong<BR>
<BR>
/visual of a Tukera long liner lifting off to transport a <BR>
large crowd of happy smiling passengers to their destination./<BR>
<BR>
                 Was in the spring<BR>
                And spring became a bummer<BR>
<BR>
/visual of a sad dirty passenger getting off a small tramp<BR>
freighter whose surly and unshaven crew throw his bags<BR>
at him - the tail of the ship says, in letters ten times the<BR>
size of a typical ships logo,  - Oberlindes/<BR>
<BR>
                Who'd have believed you'd come along<BR>
<BR>
/the liner drifts through the upper atmosphere and the<BR>
visual pans in through the large port at the front of<BR>
the passenger lounge./<BR>
 <BR>
                Hands, touchin' hands<BR>
<BR>
/brief pan to two Hiver passengers on board the long liner<BR>
who appear to be shaking hands/<BR>
<BR>
                Reachin' out<BR>
                Touchin' me<BR>
                Touchin' you<BR>
<BR>
/the Hiver are discussing something in handtalk <BR>
- - a translation appears in subtitles<BR>
<BR>
Hiver #1: "I'm telling you if we simply reroute the<BR>
computer here and here we can cross circut the gallery and <BR>
the solid waste systems. That way we can get some more<BR>
empirical data on human responses to olfactory stimuli."<BR>
<BR>
Hiver #2 "Enough with the bit about the olfactory <BR>
stimuli."/<BR>
 <BR>
                Tukera Lines<BR>
                Good times never seemed so good<BR>
<BR>
/visual of a family of a young upper class couple and their <BR>
adoreably cute curly haired child child, obviously High <BR>
Passengers, eating an excuisite meal of traditional Vilani <BR>
style mush at the Captain's table on the long liner/<BR>
<BR>
                I've been inclined<BR>
                To believe they never would<BR>
<BR>
/visual of an older couple, in typical formal Moran attire,<BR>
including the studded leather collar of ownership on the man,<BR>
toasting each other with champagne elsewhere in the dining <BR>
room/<BR>
 <BR>
                But now I<BR>
                Look at the night<BR>
<BR>
/visual of the space scene out the front port, with<BR>
Assiniboia visual across 12 degrees of the sky/<BR>
<BR>
                And it don't seem so lonely<BR>
<BR>
/a Zhodani battle cruiser of  about 50,000 tons displacement<BR>
jumps in, with its gun ports open, appearing less <BR>
than 100 kilometers from the long liner/<BR>
<BR>
                We fill it up with only two<BR>
<BR>
/visual of the long liners two ative turrets frantically<BR>
deploying sand/<BR>
<BR>
                And when I hurt<BR>
                Hurtin' runs off my shoulders<BR>
<BR>
/visual of a High Passenger receiving a massage from<BR>
an attractive young masseuse in a skimpy costume/<BR>
<BR>
                How can I hurt when I'm with you<BR>
<BR>
/switch to external view of the long liner disapeering into <BR>
jump space./<BR>
 <BR>
                Warm, touchin' warm<BR>
<BR>
/cut to the Engineering room of the liner where the<BR>
Engineering crew, whose uniforms are remarkably neat<BR>
and clean, have poped open the top of a secondary<BR>
plasma conduit and are warming their hands over it as<BR>
they pass around a bottle of  what judging by the<BR>
bubbles and sounds must be Scout Brew/<BR>
<BR>
                Reachin' out<BR>
                Touchin' me<BR>
                Touchin' you<BR>
<BR>
/visual goes back to the two Hiver talking in handtalk - <BR>
a translation appears in subtitles<BR>
<BR>
Hiver #2 Are you sure that crossing the sewage and the<BR>
food lines won't interrupt our plans to use the subsonics<BR>
and holograms to test human belief in jump space<BR>
demons?/<BR>
 <BR>
                Tukera Lines<BR>
                Good times never seemed so good<BR>
<BR>
/cut to a short haired man with a para military<BR>
demeanor wearing a Vemene uniform who is seen brutally<BR>
assaulting and beating an Oberlindes crewwoman, we<BR>
see a flash of steel, the man smiles suggestively,<BR>
and the view pans out/<BR>
<BR>
                I've been inclined<BR>
                To believe they never would<BR>
                Oh, no, no<BR>
<BR>
/visual goes back to the Captains table where the next<BR>
course has been served - all we can see of it some long<BR>
curly hairs cascading off the edge of the serving<BR>
dish - the young couple are still at the table but their<BR>
daugher is no longer sitting with them, they toast<BR>
each other with champagne/<BR>
 <BR>
                Tukera Lines<BR>
                Good times never seemed so good<BR>
                I've been inclined<BR>
                To believe they never would<BR>
                Tukera Lines<BR>
<BR>
/visual of the long liner coming out of jump,<BR>
wavers briefly, and disolves into a cloud of protons,<BR>
the protons form into the words "Tukera Lines."<BR>
<BR>
A parody of Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond     <BR>
which is copyright 1969 Stonebridge Music (ASCAP)<BR>
and was found at<BR>
http://pages.prodigy.com/king/lyricpage.html#SweetCaroline<BR>
<BR>
TAS News Flash<BR>
<BR>
Aramis/Spinward Marches 319-1112<BR>
<BR>
Singing sensation Sir Eneri Iridium was found dead in his<BR>
hotel suite this morning. Police investigators are not<BR>
commenting on the case but a source on the Marquis's<BR>
personal staff says that foul play is suspected.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:50:38 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: Land Grab Data Mad Scramble<BR>
<BR>
I just wanted to take a moment and say thanks to everyone for really gearing<BR>
up and digging out old data for the Land Grab. I have been going over the<BR>
stuff I have found for Efate and Bowman and I will have an interesting time<BR>
trying to put most of it together without going nuts. I have to say it will<BR>
be fun trying.<BR>
:)<BR>
I have BtC, and I have the book from the MT2 PC game, but not the program<BR>
itself. I have the Spinward Marches LBB and I am trying to get whatever data<BR>
is in the SM Campaign book.<BR>
How accurate is the data between the SMCB and AB's site? <BR>
Anyone know any other websites have some data on Efate or Bowman?<BR>
<BR>
If I can, I'd like to stay as close to canon as possible, and keep any other<BR>
sophont's work that has already been completed included whenever I can.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks to all for the help!<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:53:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
<BR>
Warning! This gets explicit (and not necessarily sexually) in several<BR>
ways. Only read onwards if you are willing to consider some ideas that<BR>
might be bizarre or even offend you. If you do read on, you've been<BR>
warned. <BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>    Since I'm always looking for a different slant on things, here's my ObTrav<BR>
> suggestion for adventuring on a planet that's failing at their social<BR>
> experiment.  A planet where a group of immigrants are attempting to<BR>
> establish their own culture, now two, three, or possibly more generations<BR>
> along, but the stresses of a larger population than ever before are<BR>
> starting to cause Bad Things to happen.  For instance, the culture that has<BR>
> "sexual slavery" as a norm might make for all kinds of dramatic conflict as<BR>
> things start to fall apart.<BR>
<BR>
Well, "sexual slavery" is one of the more visible options... :-)<BR>
<BR>
I'm willing to supply the "original ideal", and maybe even make some<BR>
suggestions as to how it can go wrong. But I do hope we can avoid<BR>
*unecessary* use of some stereotypes that don't really apply to anyone<BR>
capable of functioning in *any* society.<BR>
<BR>
>    Players could be pulled into this or just be nearby observers.  I would<BR>
> imagine the beginnings of the end would be subtle and manifest themselves<BR>
> in a variety of ways.  Personal relationships would fray.  Individuals<BR>
> might start calling for the creation of institutions and customs that<BR>
> haven't existed before as things grow more public and less subtle (police<BR>
> investigation into master/slave situations that grow oppressive or harmful?<BR>
<BR>
Consider that the origunal setup involves at least as much *love* as a<BR>
typical *marriage*. So it might pay to consider spousal abuse, and see<BR>
what transposes from the one situation to the other. <BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, *avoiding* that sort of problem is one of the<BR>
reasons the BDSM community tends to be *really* leery of "full time"<BR>
master/slave relationships. So I expect that the laws will actually<BR>
*anticipate* many of the possible abuses.<BR>
<BR>
What's more likely to happen (and *far* more "tragic") is the sub being<BR>
*too* "selfless". Even though they have the *right* to walk out, they<BR>
*won't*. It's not exactly the same as Stockholm Syndrome, or the<BR>
tendency of abused spouses to not wish to leave. But it is similar.<BR>
<BR>
Worse, and this is a *real* problem in dom/sub relationships *now*, is<BR>
you can get into a situation where the sub gets into a headspace<BR>
where "If Master/Mistress wants it, it's fine" Regardless of the fact<BR>
that they aren't enjoying it or actually loathe it. In essence, the<BR>
situation is no longer "consensual" because the sub has crossed an<BR>
internal, mental line and is no longer *capable* of withholding<BR>
consent, which means that their "consent" is worthless...<BR>
<BR>
When the dominant partner finds out, the results are often devastating.<BR>
It's *not* a nice feeling to discover that you've been *abusing*<BR>
someone, rather than engaging in "shared play". Trust me on this one...<BR>
<BR>
> perhaps a family of slaves are particularly unfairly deprived of their<BR>
> inheritance when their parents die?<BR>
<BR>
That sounds more like run of the mill abuses that happen in any<BR>
society. How often do you hear about a lawyer playing games with the<BR>
*letter* of the law so as to screw someone over.<BR>
<BR>
> democratic elections?<BR>
<BR>
What makes you think that they *wouldn't* have such? Your<BR>
preconceptions are showing. :-)<BR>
<BR>
More likely is a scandal over doms telling their subs how to vote. Much<BR>
like the old argument about "women shouldn't vote, because their<BR>
husbands or fathers will tell them how to vote!" Yes, that was a *real*<BR>
argument!<BR>
<BR>
> The mere presence of outworlders may well tend to cause natives to<BR>
> feel strained and behave more extremely, as they feel (or at least<BR>
> imagine) the judgmental eyes of outsiders on them.<BR>
<BR>
More likely are problems with "wannabees" who are actually there just<BR>
to "watch the show" rather than actually *contribute* to the society by<BR>
actually *participating*. (Another real world problem with "public"<BR>
BDSM venues)<BR>
<BR>
Also, you'll have problems (*expected* ones, again) with immigrants who<BR>
*don't* want to abide by the rules, and expect to be able to do<BR>
anything they want. Dealing with *those* will lead to strong suspicion<BR>
directed at outworlders. <BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, they may deal with this by having a "resort" near<BR>
the starport where outworlders can indulge in many activities illegal<BR>
elsewhere under some unobtrusive supervision. That way they are kept<BR>
away from the rest of the population most of the time.<BR>
<BR>
>  Children and grandchildren of the founders<BR>
> often find themselves uninterested and vaguely repulsed by both the S & the<BR>
> M side of life, yet they are being made to fit in.  Teenagers caught<BR>
> necking in the basement without bondage, domination, nor torture are<BR>
> punished by their parents.<BR>
<BR>
"Pure" S&M probably the *worst* section of BDSM (B&D, D/S, S&M) to<BR>
"base" a society on. Besides, many a "slave" (from a D/S relationship)<BR>
wants no part of "pain play". Heck, I know several *doms* that are the<BR>
masochist in the relationship. (And you should see the looks on the<BR>
faces of folks with preconceptions when they encountered person who is<BR>
chained up *ordering* his slave to whip him harder!)<BR>
<BR>
I do expect that some *third* generation children might have parents<BR>
trying to push them in directions they don't want to go. Second<BR>
generation kids won't have much of that, simply because their parents<BR>
got too much of that from *their* parents.<BR>
<BR>
But this still isn't all that "different". Consider the "fun" gays, and<BR>
would-be BDSMers have growing up. They are attracted to the "wrong" sex<BR>
or turned on by the "wrong" sort of activities. And if their parents or<BR>
peers find out, their lives become hell. Guess what the major causes of<BR>
teen suicide are....<BR>
<BR>
At least until the founders die off, this world should be better than<BR>
we are about "non-standard" interests. And likely better for some time.<BR>
<BR>
After all, being interested in sex would be normal. I expect that the<BR>
parents would be more likely to be wondering when on earth their kid(s)<BR>
were going to show an interest in something kinky...<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps family members are "sold" into slavery.<BR>
<BR>
And?<BR>
<BR>
That is, if one of the kids is obviously a sub, then getting them<BR>
trained right is a reasonable thing to do... It depends on how the<BR>
"slave" feels about it. <BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps the planet managed to originally avoid violating the Imperium's<BR>
> slavery prohibition, but it's a fine line between what many of them<BR>
> practice and what is illegal.  Not all of them will care.<BR>
<BR>
*That* is both possible and a potential problem. But not one that won't<BR>
have been expected by the founders. <BR>
<BR>
The problem will be policing such "sickos" (yes, even BDSM folks<BR>
consider folks who do certain things to be "sick") in such a way as to<BR>
keep the Imperium happy, while still preserving the rights they founded<BR>
the colony to obtain.<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps purveyors of truly illegal porn are drawn to this planet<BR>
> likes flies to honey.<BR>
<BR>
Likely, but they'd actually do better elsewhere for some things.<BR>
<BR>
> Snuff films<BR>
<BR>
Special effects can do those now *without* risking prosecution. And for<BR>
those who want *real* snuff films (of which there are *no* confirmed<BR>
instances) it's fairly easy to kidnap people *anywhere*. On *this*<BR>
planet, *because* of the Imperial watchdogs, it's *really* hard to<BR>
disappear. <BR>
<BR>
Also, there's something you haven't considered. A culture that<BR>
recognizes the right of masochists to indulge in activities that can<BR>
cause greater or lesser amount of physical harm is going to draw some<BR>
lines in *very* different places than we do. <BR>
<BR>
A snuff film could be made *legally* there if you could find a<BR>
*volunteer* for the starring role. Maybe he (or she) has an incurable<BR>
disease. Or maybe he's decided that going out in a "blaze of glory"<BR>
while experiencing the "ultimate" is worth it. As long as he is *sane*,<BR>
it's his right. <BR>
<BR>
That *will* bother folks offworld. If he is healthy, it'll even bother<BR>
a lot of folks on-world. But they'll have to deal with it, or be in<BR>
conflict with their basic principle that activities entered into<BR>
voluntarily, with full knowledge of the consequences are not subject<BR>
to government interference.<BR>
<BR>
> and nonconsensual torture,<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure if that sort of thing might be used as a criminal sentence<BR>
or not. If it is, the government could sell the movie rights. Which<BR>
could lead to abuses.<BR>
<BR>
If it's a non-governmental entity doing the torture, it'd be a<BR>
violation of the most basic rules of the society. (probably derived<BR>
from the current BDSM community's "Safe, sane, and consensual") <BR>
<BR>
I can see some *very* surprised off-worlders getting arrested for<BR>
trying this. I can also see the government sentencing them to star in<BR>
their own film. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> child pornography are being created and shipped out despite all the<BR>
> locals' best efforts.<BR>
<BR>
Child porn is *definitely* non-consensual. Though it's possible that<BR>
they may have a better method of measuring maturity than chronological<BR>
age. If they do, then sufficiently mature "children" might legally make<BR>
what'd be considered child porn elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Other than that, there's no *advantage* to making "kiddie porn" there<BR>
rather than elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm. It just occured to me that some people have fantasies about being<BR>
children or even babies. High TL medicine might be able to physically<BR>
regress people that to childhood, if not babyhood. That could allow for<BR>
perfectly *legal* "kiddie porn".<BR>
<BR>
>    A group of players may make planetfall, pick up a cargo and plan to<BR>
> continue on.  But, a crusading citizen (local, or offworlder?) apprises<BR>
> them of the nature of those innocent-seeming holorecordings they are<BR>
> speculating in.  They were never expected to actually *open* the crates.<BR>
<BR>
And the government would be grateful.<BR>
<BR>
>    Perhaps the players are escorting a wealthy client to the planet, so the<BR>
> client can indulge his sexual appetites in a way not possible at home.<BR>
<BR>
Probably to the resort area...<BR>
<BR>
> With society going through changes hard for even the participants to fully<BR>
> comprehend, the players are trying to escort their patron through this<BR>
> alien place of almost byzantine personal relationships.  What people say,<BR>
> what they *think* they mean even is often very different from what they<BR>
> *really* mean.  Unexpected political struggles are quietly taking place.<BR>
<BR>
The area for offworlders would be kept safe. It's only if they go<BR>
beyond the resort that it might get scary.<BR>
<BR>
> The patron's eyes shining with sexual excitement, powerful sexual urges<BR>
> that had been hidden and repressed all his life erupting uncontrollably in<BR>
> him.  Whether the patron is there to be a slave or a master, or perhaps<BR>
> switch from time to time, he may well become a target for some and a pawn<BR>
> for others who are involved in various things.  Meanwhile, the percentage<BR>
> of dangerous wackos that are in every population will be dealing with this<BR>
> world even more poorly than most dangerous wackos on theirs.  Real world<BR>
> cultures that have been created somewhat from whole cloth are the Israeli<BR>
> and Liberian ones.  Think about the behavioral and attitudinal differences<BR>
> between the first, second, and later generations in these places.<BR>
<BR>
True enough. But at the same time, as I pointed out, the kind of folks<BR>
that would try to found something like this are already *quite* aware<BR>
of the abuses, because they have to deal with that exact sort of person<BR>
in such spaces as they can carve out in our society. <BR>
<BR>
For example, the very *first* piece of advice you get from a longtime<BR>
BDSMer about getting into it is to *never* go off with someone without<BR>
making sure someone else knows who you are going off with. It's the<BR>
price you pay for not being able to tell the "real" BDSM types from the<BR>
wannabees who don't know how to play safe and respect limits, and from<BR>
the "sickos" like Dahmer.<BR>
<BR>
>    What happens when the Zhodani find themselves with no recourse but to send<BR>
> someone undercover into such a life?  (Have to invent a plausible reason<BR>
> for it, though.)  I'm thinking it will be very hard to find a Zhodani<BR>
> operative who isn't repulsed by S&M.  But, there might be a few.<BR>
<BR>
Your pre-conceptions are showing. The Zhodani are likely to be more<BR>
understanding than most Imperials. Because from their exploration of<BR>
the human mind they'll *know* that some people have "inborn"<BR>
pre-dispostions towards some of this. <BR>
<BR>
Some people are attracted to "strong sensations". Sensations that<BR>
others would find painful. Ones that even *they* might find painful if<BR>
they didn't work up to them. <BR>
<BR>
Much of the time during a properly done scene, a masochist is in<BR>
*exactly* the same state a runner is during a "runner's high" and for<BR>
*exactly* the same reason. Repeated, continuous stimuli at the<BR>
threshold of pain cause the body to release endorphins. Which are not<BR>
all that different from opiates!<BR>
<BR>
Sadists are a bit harder to explain, but suffice it to say that they<BR>
enjoy making masochists happy. <BR>
<BR>
*NONE* of these activities are the result of mental illness. Check the<BR>
DSM IV entries for any of them. They are only a problem needing<BR>
treatment if they make the possesor uncomfortable or if they interfere<BR>
with normal life. <BR>
<BR>
> Operatives who have had to immerse themselves in "unhealthy" life styles to<BR>
> maintain cover before.  And have abandoned themselves to it.  There would<BR>
> probably be a few who are kept around.  Their comrades probably go wash<BR>
> their hands after talking to these people.<BR>
<BR>
You are *assuming* that these lifestyles are unhealthy.<BR>
<BR>
>    Perhaps the Imperium feels more than the usual interest in keeping close<BR>
> tabs on this planet.  Law enforcement types might want undercover agents<BR>
> there, to ensure the slavery laws don't get broken.<BR>
<BR>
Reasonable enough. Though they may find that agents burn out fast (if<BR>
you aren't "into" this sort of thing, acting as if you are is going to<BR>
make "keeping cover" *really* hard. Or else the agents go native,<BR>
*because* they were "into it", even if they didn't realize it at first.<BR>
<BR>
>    Long term undercover operatives in these situations might have<BR>
> psychological issues much tougher to handle than in most undercover<BR>
> assignments.<BR>
<BR>
Ones who come to realize that they are interested in the "lifestyle"<BR>
will need counseling (probably from the locals) to deal with feelings<BR>
of guilt.<BR>
<BR>
Ones who are bothered by it will be in danger of some real<BR>
psychological damage. This *isn't* for folks who aren't equipped to<BR>
handle it. <BR>
<BR>
>    Maybe some of the younger people decide to emigrate to a different<BR>
> continent and set up their own ideal society, where S&M is prohibited.<BR>
> But, they haven't lived any other way, so how well can things go?<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that *spanking* your partner is "S&M"!<BR>
<BR>
If they are going to emigrate, I expect them to go off-world.<BR>
<BR>
>    Perhaps high grade lanthanum ore is suddenly discovered on the planet, and<BR>
> it moves into the political and corporate fore as a result.  Just to add<BR>
> some further twists and strains.<BR>
<BR>
I want to see a typical corporate negotiator trying to deal with a dom<BR>
who has spent his/her life learning the "voice of command" bit. Talk<BR>
about intimidating opponents...<BR>
<BR>
>    And the best part about all this confusion and dramatic conflict is that<BR>
> everyone the players meet has many visible ....accessories that make it<BR>
> possible for them to do some scary things to the players.<BR>
<BR>
And unless things have gotten *really* disfunctional, none of them<BR>
would *dream* of doing so unless asked. But the *players* don't know<BR>
that! <BR>
<BR>
> This is great<BR>
> atmosphere, but it also makes the players wary of every room they enter,<BR>
> every shadow in every alley they pass.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. <BR>
<BR>
> The slave in heavy studded leather gear who has been stressing way<BR>
> past his coping point for years and is ready to explode in anger and<BR>
> vengeance.<BR>
<BR>
Believe it or not, most people find submission to *relieve* stress.<BR>
Mostly because I *wasn't* kidding in that bit when the slave said they<BR>
had no responsibilities. <BR>
<BR>
And the "full time" folks will actually be fairly uncommon. Picture a<BR>
strong, controlling business exec who, at the end of the day, changes<BR>
into his slave outfit...<BR>
<BR>
>  The masters with a bevy of slaves<BR>
> waiting to do their bidding.  Handcuffs, restraints, gags, whips, in<BR>
> abundance and they can be used on anyone.<BR>
<BR>
And it won't help if they see a pre-arranged "kidnap" scene either.<BR>
Though that's likely to only happen in "native areas", as opposed to<BR>
the "resort". But, of course, the players had to sneak out...<BR>
<BR>
>  People with a lot to lose.  The<BR>
> purveyors of illegal porn disguised as legitimate local businessmen, and<BR>
> even more to lose than most people.  Parents who were unable to draw the<BR>
> line and have raised their children as abused slaves (after all, how's the<BR>
> Imperium to know?).<BR>
<BR>
Their *neighbors* will know. And as I noted, *consensual* is going to<BR>
be one of the bywords, at least at the start.<BR>
<BR>
> The friends and families of people who are being<BR>
> victimized (at least in their eyes) who are increasingly desperate to<BR>
> rescue their loved one, hatching plots.<BR>
<BR>
This gets into the same sort of thing as kids joining "cults". Were<BR>
they brain-washed or did they willingly convert?<BR>
<BR>
Just keep in mind that the local laws *will* say something about this.<BR>
Though they may be inclined to err in favor of believing the indivudual<BR>
who says he chose to live like this over the family who disagrees.<BR>
That'd be a natural reaction to the way things tend to go the other way<BR>
"outside" (ie *now*).<BR>
<BR>
> Moral reformers might visit from<BR>
> offworld with various schemes to put an end to what they consider a sick<BR>
> and abominable way of life.<BR>
<BR>
And having their own words thrown back at them. For example, Christ<BR>
taught that we should be humble, and should serve others. That's a<BR>
*great* argument for a slave to throw at the reformer. :-)<BR>
<BR>
>  A "deprogrammer" sent to "rescue" the teenaged<BR>
> grandchild who fled with a casual lover to the planet a year ago and has<BR>
> not been heard from since.<BR>
<BR>
See my comments about "deprogramming". And I can *gaurantee* that under<BR>
local law the deprogrammers are going to have to be *very* careful to<BR>
avoid charges of kidnapping and brainwashing. <BR>
<BR>
> I could go on and on.  This planet sounds like<BR>
> a place for multiple, repeat adventures.  I'd love to see the players faces<BR>
> each time they realize they have to go back there.  Should probably play<BR>
> that Korn album in the background.  "Freak On A Leash" and all that, forgot<BR>
> the album title.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I have to note that *your* take on things is more suited to a<BR>
place that started as a "resort" catering to the kinky than the sort of<BR>
place BDSMers would found. As I note in many places above, most of the<BR>
abuses you want are stuff that the BDSM community is already concerned<BR>
about avoiding. I suspect that your knowledge of such things is<BR>
confined to the standard stereotypes and cheap porn. <BR>
<BR>
>    Anyone have any suggestions for where such a planet might exist in the<BR>
> Spinward Marches circa 1100 to 1116?  This place gives *me* the creeps, but<BR>
> I think I'd like to flesh it out more completely and use it.  Maybe this<BR>
> should go in the Landgrab?  Or would that be too unwholesome for such wide<BR>
> publication?  Probably not a good idea for the Landgrab, regardless of how<BR>
> much adventure potential there might be.<BR>
<BR>
While I could see doing a writeup, I'm certain that there's no way Marc<BR>
could see his way clear to make it "approved for use with Traveller".<BR>
If I did it, I might submit it to him on the basis of "I know it can't<BR>
even pretend to be official, but I'd like to avoid having anything<BR>
*other* than the culture be contrary to the rules"<BR>
<BR>
>    There are other kinds of failing cultures that should be similarly<BR>
> promising for adventure settings.  This was the first one I picked on,<BR>
> since it was mentioned a couple of times in the thread.  I'd be interested<BR>
> in seeing what other people come up along these lines.  If someone can<BR>
> devise a plausible way to do the paranoid society idea, that might be the<BR>
> perfect place to run a Cthulu-inspired adventure.  The locals are convinced<BR>
> The Old Ones are real, and the players are increasingly unsure what to<BR>
> think.  I think there's a lot of mileage possible from this dysfunctional<BR>
> culture idea.  Who cares whether the culture succeeds or fails, as long as<BR>
> it makes a good story.<BR>
<BR>
There's actually a contemporary "culture" that could easily evolve into<BR>
what you want, given the right stimulus. The stereotypical "nutcase<BR>
survivalist". If I had the money, I'd have set up a retreat out in the<BR>
backwoods back in the 70s or 80s, just in case. But I'd not have been<BR>
"nutcase" about it. You survive better if your neighbors feel you are<BR>
an assett rather than an unexploded bomb! :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2174<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2175<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2169<BR>
Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
German relationships? <BR>
Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
Evil, Mind-Raping Zhodani (Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional c ultures)<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
Subject: More GT:Starports Splutters<BR>
Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
Re: For the world desingers..<BR>
Re: Land Grab Data Mad Scramble<BR>
New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
RE: Populations in the Imperium<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
Re: Songs<BR>
Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:42:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:43:42 -0500<BR>
>>From: Rob Miracle <rwm@mpgn.com><BR>
>>Subject: Re: Re : The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
>><BR>
>>Milagro/District 268<BR>
>><BR>
>>After all Milagro is Spanish for "Miracle".<BR>
>><BR>
>>Now to justify 10s of millions on an airless size two world with a fraction <BR>
>>of starport and no real production capacities . . .<BR>
><BR>
>         Gold rush town?  It doesn't have to be gold.  It could be lanthanum for<BR>
> instance.  Or something bizarre you cook up, like a mold that grows on rock<BR>
> in hard vacuum, and is incredibly valuable for pharmaceutical<BR>
> manufacturing.  Pharmaceuticals might be legal, or illegal.  Anyway, a wild<BR>
> and woolly gold rush town, with the corporations starting to move in, and<BR>
> each one carve out the biggest slice of the pie they can.  Most residents<BR>
> of a gold rush town aren't there to mine gold.  They're there to cook food<BR>
> for the miners, or cut their hair, or sell them clothes, all for an<BR>
> exorbitant price.  Or run confidence scams on them, or just plain rob them.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, keep in mind things like my favorite "fun fact" about California<BR>
during the Gold Rush. They were shipping *laundry* to *Hawaii* to get<BR>
done. By *sailing ship*.<BR>
<BR>
So expect all sorts of stuff that's normal produced locally will get<BR>
shipped in. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:31:10 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
Richard Persky wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:03:35 -0600<BR>
> > From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> > Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
> <snip><BR>
> > 1.  Anyone exposed to jumpspace will probably (>99.99% chance) die a<BR>
> > horrible death (note that one person surviving exposure to jumpspace was<BR>
> > an Imperium-wide news story).<BR>
> <BR>
>     Since I'm not half the grognard most of the population of this list is,<BR>
> and I'm cursed with curiosity to boot, I have to ask -- who was this, and<BR>
> when did the incident happen?<BR>
<BR>
Check the following site for information:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.imperiumgames.com/tns/1112.html<BR>
<BR>
This is a story from the original Traveller News Service articles.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 08:27:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
From: Smith, Walter <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Take a look at words like "Unjust" and "Better" being applied to my<BR>
> statements as if the words were synonymous with words I had<BR>
>chosen.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, although "better" *is* synonymous with the dichotomy between<BR>
functional and dysfunctional. I hadn't seen anyone say that you were being<BR>
"unjust", so I apologize for not reading carefully enough.<BR>
<BR>
> It was evident to me that my questions were stirring up moral<BR>
> umbrage in responders, more than I intended, and I was allowing<BR>
> myself to get led into defending arguments I really had not intended<BR>
> to make in the first place.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, if that's how you feel about it. I was genuinely interested in<BR>
what you were saying, and would have liked to see you flesh your ideas out.<BR>
<BR>
> Chris, you already consider me to be "incredibly arrogant" when it<BR>
> comes to discussing other cultures, so I don't expect you and I<BR>
> to do anything but talk past each other on this. I hereby declare<BR>
> you the victor, your point of view and information superior to<BR>
> mine, go forth and enjoy your triumph.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, in the past, I said that a statement that you made, concerning the<BR>
moral system of one specific culture, was "incredibly arrogant". I don't<BR>
recall ever saying that you are "incredibly arrogant", nor do I recall any<BR>
statement by me, implicitly or explicitly, that I considered you to be<BR>
"incredibly arrogant". If I have made such a statement, I sincerely<BR>
apologize. I'm reasonably sure I haven't, but if I'm misremembering, then I<BR>
admit I was certainly in the wrong for doing so.<BR>
<BR>
While I thank you for your declaration of my victory, it's a dubious honor<BR>
at best, considering the fact that I was hoping to see how it was that you<BR>
were ranking functionality versus dysfunctionality, and what you saw as<BR>
functional and what you saw as dysfunctional. It was certainly an<BR>
interesting idea for the nanosecond that you championed it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 08:08:46 -0600<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2169<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:11:13 +1000<BR>
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
> Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Here's that list of old RICE and BARD Papers that I culled <BR>
> from the TML a few (!) years ago. Notice the way some<BR>
> people took areas, eg. Chris Griffen did the Rhylanor<BR>
> Cluster, Mick Bailey the Jewell Group, etc. This <BR>
> makes for a consistent history of those spots.<BR>
<BR>
I don't suppose I could beg/plead/whine enough for you to<BR>
send me a copy of them all? Pleasepleaseplease?<BR>
(whimperwhimper)<BR>
<BR>
I only grabbed a few and have been kicking myself for<BR>
missing most of them.<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:48:46 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
<BR>
At 16:17 23.03.00 -0600, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
>Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Hi!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> One of my players just called and told me he didn't like the Traveller<BR>
>> Universe I use in the campaign... which is basically 3I at 1115.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I'm still not sure if this has actually happened...<BR>
><BR>
>For his impudence, throw a Sixth Frontier War at him.  With penguins<BR>
>armed with (and fired from) Famile Spofulam weapons.<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
I would, but as a consequence from his judgement, he left the gaming group<BR>
without any further comment... <BR>
:(<BR>
<BR>
And I 'm relatively sure that it's not the game system(GURPS) or the people<BR>
(who are all in another GRUPS gaming group with him, including myself, but<BR>
that one is Fantasy).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:59:32 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: German relationships? <BR>
<BR>
At 13:09 23.03.00 -0900, Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> >> Wir wissen schon, dass das dritte Imperium ein wirklich<BR>
>> >> Tausendjahrreich ist!  Aber was werden wir mit dem Droynproblem<BR>
>> >> machen?  <BR>
><BR>
>> As someone else wrote: That is really _bad_ German. <BR>
><BR>
>Yes but it was not my bad German instead it is what I was<BR>
>responding to. Is the translation below any better?<BR>
<BR>
>Wir wissen bereits, da das dritte Imperium wirklich ein <BR>
>Tausendjahr-Realm ist! Aber was sollten wir ber das Problem <BR>
>Droyne tun? <BR>
<BR>
Sorry, really, but it's _worse_:<BR>
<BR>
"We already know that the Third Imperium is a thousand-year [Realm is not<BR>
German]! But what should we do about the problem Droyne?"<BR>
<BR>
But this is the TML, not a foreign-languages study course... So let's drop<BR>
this.<BR>
<BR>
>> >Un royaume de onze cent dix-sept ans, non . <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Non, pas onze cent dix-sept ans. Tausendjaehriges Reich, il a ecrit,<BR>
>> nest-ce pas?<BR>
><BR>
>The Third Imperium lasted (IMNSHO) from 0 to 1117, and<BR>
>this is one thousand one hundred and seventeen years. <BR>
<BR>
Which is true. But "tausenjaehrig" means "thousand-year". Not<BR>
"eleven-hundred-and-seventeen-year".<BR>
<BR>
>> >Quant au <BR>
>> >problme de Droyne, comme Retief a dit: " Aucune population, <BR>
>> >aucun malaise populaire. " Non? <BR>
><BR>
>> Non. Grand-Pere a une medicine pur toutes les malaises populaires des<BR>
Droyne.<BR>
><BR>
>Grandfather has done things to protect the Droyne within<BR>
>the last few tens of thousands of years and has slightly<BR>
>interacted with them (new Major races on the Coyns) within<BR>
>the last few thousand years. There is no evidence he has<BR>
>done anything within the last few hundred years. While he<BR>
>may have acted unseen, or may not have needed to act, it<BR>
>is just as plausible to say that he does not act very often.<BR>
><BR>
>We know that during the Rebellion several planets started<BR>
>wars, or even genocidal programs, against their Droyne<BR>
>and Chirpers [Survival Margin]. There is no canonical evidence<BR>
>that Grandfather acted then. Therefore it is quite plausible<BR>
>that a racist will be able to get away with these acts.<BR>
><BR>
>> >Parlez en Anglais sur le TML s'il vous plat, je ne parlent <BR>
>> >pas la langue Allemande.<BR>
><BR>
>> Pourquoi? Tu (sic!) a compris le content.<BR>
<BR>
I must say here that the missing "s" is a typo...<BR>
<BR>
>Ich kann ungefahr hundert Wrter des Deutschen lesen. Das <BR>
>dieses nicht zu behandelndes genug ist Traveller. <BR>
<BR>
Of course not. But you understood that _single_ sentence, didn't you? If no<BR>
one had reacted, that would've been the last German sentence on this list<BR>
for a while (except, of course, for my .sig).<BR>
<BR>
>> If you want people to use English, why don't you write <BR>
>> that in... say, English?<BR>
><BR>
>Y estropee la broma? <BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
Okay, now you've beaten me! I don't even recognize the language... Spanish?<BR>
<BR>
>Translations, possibly of dubious quality, for the above<BR>
>may be obtained from Babelfish at:<BR>
><BR>
>http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?<BR>
<BR>
Added to bookmarks. Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:04:02 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: He didn't like the universe !?<BR>
<BR>
At 18:50 23.03.00 -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> Hi!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> One of my players just called and told me he didn't like the Traveller<BR>
>> Universe I use in the campaign... which is basically 3I at 1115.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I'm still not sure if this has actually happened...<BR>
><BR>
>It's not surprising, there are a number of us out there. :)<BR>
<BR>
Thank you, that helps!<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:25:29 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Evil, Mind-Raping Zhodani (Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional c ultures)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>Your pre-conceptions are showing. The Zhodani are likely to be more <BR>
>understanding than most Imperials. Because from their exploration of <BR>
>the human mind they'll *know* that some people have "inborn" <BR>
>pre-dispostions towards some of this. <BR>
<BR>
IMO, the Zhodani are so used to dealing with people who grew up in<BR>
socially and psychologically moderated environments that people at<BR>
extremes of behaviour are alien and unsettling to them. Consider the<BR>
usual Zhodani feeling about the average Imperial citizen's brain...<BR>
it's a noxious snake pit to them.<BR>
<BR>
If this was the case, then a Zho who had sufficient exposure to such<BR>
an exotic culture that he *could* make sense of their minds and<BR>
motivations would probably be seen by his peers as contaminated.<BR>
Whether this perception leads to re-educating the person or not<BR>
will depend on how alien the person's brain feels to other Zhodani<BR>
at this point. <BR>
<BR>
I'm of the opinion that where the Zhodani chose to draw the lines<BR>
between "normal" and "abnormal" was as much a result of the ruling<BR>
class' percieved needs as it was a result of telepathic study.<BR>
Once the population had been prodded to a different standard of<BR>
"normal" - over generations - then the entire frame of reference<BR>
a Zhodani has on what a normal human mind *is* has also changed.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:31:41 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab Question<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> WROTE:<BR>
<BR>
> > Is there an online listing of spectral classes in the spinward marches?<BR>
><BR>
> Try Ethan Henry's subsector viewer, at:<BR>
> http://www.magma.ca/~ehenry/traveller/viewer.html<BR>
<BR>
I'll be damned. I didn't even know this info was in there.<BR>
To be fair, the data is from the "GENIE files", with data for <BR>
every sector in the Imperium. There may be errors, especially <BR>
when compared with "The Spinward Marches Campaign" and/or<BR>
BtC, both of which also have spectral data. So, YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:51:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net><BR>
Subject: Subject: More GT:Starports Splutters<BR>
<BR>
We all know what the cover of GT:Starports has by now.  For those who<BR>
don't I won't spoil it....<BR>
<BR>
But I found something in the book as I was flipping through it at my FLGS<BR>
that would have made me "Splut" al over it had I had been drinking<BR>
something at the time.<BR>
<BR>
I won't give it away; I will just point it out and let you figure it out<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Okay, you've been warned the coming Apocalypse was nigh...<BR>
<BR>
Look on page 35 of GT:Starports.  Bottom picture of the security scan.<BR>
Our terrorist seems to be well equipped for a 'weekend holiday' and is<BR>
armed with...<BR>
<BR>
FSA-401 Gauss Carbine<BR>
XTA-S/99 9mm Auto Pistol<BR>
Some grenades and other weapons.<BR>
<BR>
FSA?  XTA?  Who could these weapon manufactures be...? Could they<BR>
beeeeeeeee...<BR>
SATAN?!?!<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, it doesn't take a Ditzie or Harry Morrant to figure this out!<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Great job you artist types.  Keep up the Splutters!<BR>
<BR>
Commander X<BR>
Horseman War of Traveller Apocalypse<BR>
Member of the Society to Destroy all Keyboards by Projectile Splutting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:54:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultural Relativism<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>While I thank you for your declaration of my victory, it's a dubious <BR>
>honor at best,<BR>
<BR>
Hey Chris - go light a match.<BR>
<BR>
The thread's going in interesting directions without me having to<BR>
try and explain anything to you, and in the mood I'm in today that's<BR>
the best of all possible worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
(About three hours of sleep after finally getting that &%$&* server<BR>
working last night)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:16:55 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
> ;-) It was posted on the GROO-L (Groop) last week, and i thought it<BR>
> fit right in with our ML as well ;-)<BR>
<BR>
If my sources are correct, this text (not exactly, some parts are<BR>
changed) was originally written by Mark Twain. Can anyone either support<BR>
or correct my sources on this?<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:34:57 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: For the world desingers..<BR>
<BR>
A large penguin wrote:<BR>
> Tainted atmospheres? I got yer tainted atmospheres!<BR>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle<BR>
>                           /archive/2000/03/23/MN40103.DTL<BR>
<BR>
*face crumpled like a rassin*<BR>
<BR>
This... is... even... worse... than... lemons...<BR>
<BR>
As Jesse said, DAMN!<BR>
<BR>
At first I didn't see the last part of the link, so I had to search for<BR>
articles about atmospheric taint published on the 23rd of March. I came<BR>
up with this:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2000/03/23/international1939EST0836.DTL<BR>
<BR>
The article made me wonder what the air on Kirrur must be like...<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:40:49 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Land Grab Data Mad Scramble<BR>
<BR>
At 13:50 24.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>I just wanted to take a moment and say thanks to everyone for really gearing<BR>
>up and digging out old data for the Land Grab. I have been going over the<BR>
>stuff I have found for Efate and Bowman and I will have an interesting time<BR>
>trying to put most of it together without going nuts. I have to say it will<BR>
>be fun trying.<BR>
>:)<BR>
>I have BtC, and I have the book from the MT2 PC game, but not the program<BR>
>itself. I have the Spinward Marches LBB and I am trying to get whatever data<BR>
>is in the SM Campaign book.<BR>
>How accurate is the data between the SMCB and AB's site?<BR>
>Anyone know any other websites have some data on Efate or Bowman?<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, Bowman belt does have a CT boxed set wholly devoted to it...<BR>
<BR>
Its name is : "BELTSTRIKE".<BR>
It was also released in German as "Brennpunkt Bowman Belt"...<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:40:16 -0800<BR>
From: "Mike Linsenmayer" <mlinsenmayer@symantec.com><BR>
Subject: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
<BR>
Hi Guys,<BR>
<BR>
Just finished another item, This is a PGMP-12. I got the idea from<BR>
Traveller Digest #40's Cover. It said it was a PGMP for Traveller 2300 and<BR>
I thought it would make a good tech 12 weapon. So I modeled it.<BR>
<BR>
The link to the picture:<BR>
http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-f.htm<BR>
<BR>
There is also individual large bit map files 1.1mb zipped:<BR>
http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/pgmp.zip<BR>
<BR>
Let me know what you all think.... I will start work on a FGMP-15 next.<BR>
<BR>
I posted earlier about the Rule of Man coins as well, just an FYI I got the<BR>
general idea from the Mega Traveller Encyclopedia Under Solomani there is a<BR>
picture of a front and back of a .25cr coin.   I colored it copper cuz I<BR>
cant see a coin being all silver and only .25cr  But you never know.... Any<BR>
ideas?  I will finish those up and post those as well if I got some time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bye!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
******************************************<BR>
Michael Linsenmayer<BR>
<BR>
"Michael Bailey Smith"<BR>
http://www.bigbailey.com<BR>
<BR>
Traveller<BR>
http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace<BR>
<BR>
michael@bigbailey.com<BR>
******************************************<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:39:46 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Populations in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
VonRammen writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>The chart below lists the population level, number of worlds with that<BR>
>level, and the percentage of the total worlds (8931 worlds)<BR>
>0    238    2.9%<BR>
>1    432    4.84%<BR>
>2    678    7.59%<BR>
>3    904   10.12%<BR>
>4    1348 15.09%<BR>
>5    1400 15.68%<BR>
>6    1196 13.39%<BR>
>7    1014 11.35%<BR>
>8    855    9.57%<BR>
>9    605    6.77%<BR>
>A    238   2.66%<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Note that about 97% of Imperial citizens hail from Pop 9+ worlds,<BR>
	and about 77% hail from Pop A worlds.  I realized this pattern<BR>
	existed when I first tried to make a random table for determining<BR>
	home world stats for characterss.  Rather than have the vast<BR>
	majority of space-faring humans come from the nearest Pop A world,<BR>
	I settled for using the Pop UPP code (a character is twice as<BR>
	likely to come from a Pop A world as a Pop 5 world).  IMTU, folks<BR>
	on hi-pop worlds are (on average) less interested in space travel.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:37:47 +0100<BR>
From: Holger Kadlez <paradin@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" schrieb:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 07:28 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >"Alle preisen die Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
> <BR>
> A new sig! I now have *four* penguin related sigs, my news business cards<BR>
> have penguins on them, them damn things are starting to invade my sleep.<BR>
> <BR>
> doobie-doobie-doo....<BR>
> --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In this case please try "Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------^^^<BR>
<BR>
Otherwise you are either plural or female<BR>
                                         ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tschau,<BR>
	Paradin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:39:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
At 03:12 PM 3/23/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> And watch out for Gridlore Technology's Superdense Frying Pans, ideal <BR>
>> for all kitchen combat situations...<BR>
><BR>
>As used by Steven Seagull in _The Penguinman_.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, my wife gets to smack a friend of ours upside the head (twice!)<BR>
to illustrate haw damage is taken.<BR>
<BR>
We were shopping for housewares last weekend, and she came up to me hefting<BR>
a heavy iron skillet. The staff couldn't figure out why we were laughing so<BR>
hard over a frying pan.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:46:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:41 PM 3/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Hi,<BR>
><BR>
>How much are we trying to stand by previously published canon when <BR>
>detailing worlds for the Landgrab?  I mean, I don't have Behind the Claw, <BR>
>but does it have UWPs (or the GURPS equivalent) for all Spinward Marches <BR>
>worlds? Do they stand by previous UWPs from earlier Traveller material?<BR>
><BR>
>Basically, I want to claim a world for the Landgrab, but I don't want to <BR>
>contradict everything published already!<BR>
<BR>
In my case, and I can't speak for anyone else, I'm tryiong to at least stay<BR>
close to the published material. I'm changing some things, and fudging die<BR>
rolls like a fiend to justify a debnse atmoshere on Heya, but I'm trying to<BR>
keep it recognizaible.<BR>
<BR>
That's part of the reason I suggested this in the first place. We have all<BR>
these worlds that have been sitting mostly unsed since Supplement 3 came<BR>
out, and now we should be filling them in.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:48:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
At 05:41 PM 3/23/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Resteraunt<BR>
>excepting Alice"<BR>
<BR>
Dammnit! No I gotta go find that CD!<BR>
<BR>
And filk it.<BR>
<BR>
About Twilght's Peak.<BR>
<BR>
For I too am not proud nor tired.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:54:23 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
<BR>
<< You sir are a truly evil man. Due to your attempt at revenge against<BR>
 a single individual I (and I suspect many others on this list) are<BR>
 going to have to try to get to sleep with "Tukera Lines" running through<BR>
 our heads. If you had had the common courtesy to provide us with<BR>
 a fully realized filk perhaps we could avoid the unpleasant repetition<BR>
 of the single phrase that we have been infected with.<BR>
 <BR>
 ObTrav: Is this how TNE's Virus was spread? >><BR>
<BR>
It evidently predates radio/popular songs: Mark Twain once wrote an essay <BR>
about a particularly annoying poem about a bus conductor and transit tickets <BR>
(repeating the refrain: "punch in the presence of the pass-en-ger") that he <BR>
could not drive out of his mind. He helpfully provided the entire text, and <BR>
after reading the essay, I had to play _Hooked on a feeling_ to get rid of <BR>
it. <BR>
<BR>
The more things change, the more they stay the same...<BR>
<BR>
LKW <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:54:21 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Songs<BR>
<BR>
<< Gee, thanks, Loren.  Since I only remembered part of the lyrics, I was<BR>
 able to get that song out of my head within a couple of hours.  Now that<BR>
 you've posted the lyrics in all their hideous "glory", it'll probably<BR>
 take me a week to subdue the beast. >><BR>
<BR>
I suggest repeated playing of Blue Swede's _Hooked on a Feeling_<BR>
<BR>
"Oooga-Chucka, Oooga-Chucka, Oooga-Oooga-Oooga-Chucka!"<BR>
<BR>
 :  )<BR>
<BR>
Another technique is to sing the ode to Joy from Beethoven's 9th to the tune <BR>
of "Mt Darling Clementine" (or vice versa). You can do it to the Christmas <BR>
carol _Deck the Halls_ if you leave in the "Fa-la-la-la"s<BR>
<BR>
"In a cavern, in a caynon, Fa-la-la-la, La-la-la-la,<BR>
Excavating for a mine, Fa-la-la-la, La-la-la-la,"<BR>
<BR>
etc.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:00:35 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Chainmail<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/23/00 11:06:09 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< As a few people have learned the hard way, kevlar vests provide<BR>
 essentially *no* protection against *sharp* and *pointy* objects.  >><BR>
<BR>
Corrections Officers are issued vests that look a lot like Kevlar that are <BR>
designed to defeat knives; not firearms...My bullet resistant vest was issued <BR>
to me in 1986. It too, had some resistance to puncture weapons as well as <BR>
firearms...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2176</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2176<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Milagro<BR>
Re: Milagro<BR>
re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
: Re: Clone<BR>
Re: SongsFrom the keyboard of LKW:<BR>
Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
Re: For the world desingers..<BR>
OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
Re: : Re: Clone<BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
Re: Greek relationships<BR>
RE: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
TML LG2k Bowman Belt<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
RE: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
RE: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 03:35:52 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Milagro<BR>
<BR>
GT:FT states "Milagro would be one of The District's isolated frontier<BR>
worlds, if not for the presence of Ling Standard Products. The company runs<BR>
it's own regularily scheduled services from Milagro to Grote to carry<BR>
output, supplies and communications". (p126)<BR>
<BR>
Looks like the place is a Company Town<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:49:35 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@mpgn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Milagro<BR>
<BR>
What is GT:FT?  My head has been in the sand too long.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 03:35 AM 3/25/00 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>GT:FT states "Milagro would be one of The District's isolated frontier<BR>
>worlds, if not for the presence of Ling Standard Products. The company runs<BR>
>it's own regularily scheduled services from Milagro to Grote to carry<BR>
>output, supplies and communications". (p126)<BR>
><BR>
>Looks like the place is a Company Town<BR>
><BR>
>Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:52:18 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
<BR>
At 5:22 -0500 24/3/00, "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
>RPG net has a review of the CT reprint book Volume 1<BR>
>http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_2921.html<BR>
><BR>
>I bring this up because in the discusions of the review a couple of<BR>
>questions came up. The first is the ever popular "Which is the best<BR>
>ruleset?"<BR>
>The second is regarding UK distributorship of the reprints. I responded with<BR>
>the bits@bits.org.uk address from the website but perhaps someone has<BR>
>definitive information at hand regarding the distributorship situation.<BR>
<BR>
In the UK Leisure Games have copies of the CT reprints in (I know, I <BR>
have one now). As a guess, Esdevium are probably the importers or <BR>
Hobby Games.<BR>
<BR>
At 12:28 +0000 21/3/00, Leisure Games wrote:<BR>
>New Releases Due To Be Delivered To Us On Wednesday afternoon 22nd March<BR>
>(unless otherwise stated):<BR>
><BR>
>Title & brief description: Price: Publisher:<BR>
><BR>
>ROLE PLAYING<BR>
>Classic Traveller Books 0-8 Compilation<BR>
>(reprints of Introduction to Traveller, Characters & Combat, Starships,<BR>
>Worlds & Adventure, Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, Merchant Prince and<BR>
>Robots - all in one volume)<BR>
>18.95<BR>
>FFE<BR>
<BR>
>Regards<BR>
>Angus Abranson<BR>
>Leisure Games<BR>
><BR>
>Tel: +44 (0)20 8346 2327<BR>
>Fax: +44 (0)20 8343 3888<BR>
>Web: www.leisuregames.com<BR>
>E: shop@leisuregames.com<BR>
<BR>
Leisure next day delivered my copy.<BR>
<BR>
BITS is not importing them.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:47:53 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
At 5:22 -0500 24/3/00, Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > Is copyright 70 years in England ?<BR>
> > That would put all this stuff in the public domain.<BR>
><BR>
>As far as I understand it last for 50 years after the death of the copyright<BR>
>holder.  Don't know how that holds if the copyright is held by a <BR>
>corporation or<BR>
>trust.<BR>
><BR>
>Anyone know any better, please enlighten us. ;)<BR>
<BR>
If the copyright is held by a corporate body then I suspect that it <BR>
continues until such a time as they decide to allow <BR>
copying/distribution of the material. Remember that large amounts of <BR>
money have been paid recently for archives of newspapers etc.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:43:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
At 23:24 -0500 23/3/00, Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> wrote:<BR>
>I just subscribed to TML (the Traveller mailing list for us GURPS<BR>
>types) a couple of days ago, and one concept that appears repeatedly<BR>
>is that a "lanathium(sp?) grid" in hull of the jumpship conducts the<BR>
>energy to open the hole into jump space and protects the vessel from<BR>
>its effects. If so, does this mean *every* auxilary vehicle that may<BR>
>be carried in an external cradle must have such a grid in its hull<BR>
>whether it is jump capable or not? Are external vehicle cradles (and<BR>
>by extension LASH tenders) even *allowed* in canonical Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
CT had the lanthanum in the drive coils (IIRC). I don't recall if <BR>
hull grids were canon then. MT brought the hull grid, as did TNE and <BR>
T4.<BR>
<BR>
The best handwave I saw was as follows:<BR>
<BR>
Jump coils (ie in the drive) generate a spherical jump field, which <BR>
can lead to a need for large jump drives in early technology ships. <BR>
The adoption of a charged lanthanum hull grid in addition the coils <BR>
allows more efficient jump technology to be used as the spherical <BR>
field is modulated into a conformal jump bubble standing perhaps a <BR>
metre and a half off the ship's hull grid.<BR>
<BR>
With such an view of jump operations you can assume anything within <BR>
the jump bubble comes with the ship.<BR>
<BR>
Additionally, canon does support external cradles - Supplement 9 has <BR>
dispersed structure Battle Tenders, so jump must be possible with <BR>
external vessels (eg Riders)<BR>
<BR>
<there are canon references to the jump bubble standing off the ship <BR>
- - Challenge had an article.<BR>
I've tried the first 80 issues of Dragon on the archive CD but can't <BR>
find Marc Miller's article on Jumpspace - sadly the index system <BR>
doesn't work for a Mac><BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:44:31 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: : Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 21:03 -0500 23/3/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
>Dom added to Doug's comment:<BR>
> >> >We changed our minds in mid-stream, and this is one of the rough bits.<BR>
> >>I'm glad you did. It made Strephon a far more tragic character.<BR>
> >Agreed. It made Arrival Vengeance one of the bits of Traveller that<BR>
> >really had an impact on me emotionally when reading it.<BR>
><BR>
>For me, Arrival Vengance is one of *the* great Trav campaigns, tragic and<BR>
>poignant. Touring through the remains of the once-great Imperium, seeing the<BR>
>fragments shatter and collapse further, and finally climaxing with the chapter<BR>
>that is really the subtext of the whole adventure: "Shadow of Greatness".<BR>
><BR>
>I've always read Strephon as a Prince Charles sort of character. Someone with<BR>
>different ideas, wanting to serve his people, wanting to reform things,<BR>
>frustrated by a traditional hide-bound system that forces him into certain<BR>
>roles, etc etc. And in Strephon's case, in the end unable to change the system<BR>
>quickly enough to avert a disaster.<BR>
<BR>
Reading the sections you're talking about brought tears to my eyes. <BR>
Strephon is there in Usdikki, his empire destroyed with his double, <BR>
his family slaughtered by a man he held as a friend, his people <BR>
suffering. He tries to fight to re-establish the ideals and right the <BR>
wrongs and finds this leading to more destruction and the adoption of <BR>
Balck War by Dulinor and Lucan. His own nephew is destroying the <BR>
ideals he holds.<BR>
<BR>
He ends up sending away Avery to the Marches, destined to fade into <BR>
obscurity and probably die holding back the tide of the collapse of <BR>
trade and civilisation. Anything he does is doomed by the forthcoming <BR>
Virus; he knows what the remnants of empire face (Longbow II and <BR>
Jumpstart), knows his mistakes, and knows there is nothing he can do <BR>
to stop it and make it right. His hopes and dreams go to Norris with <BR>
Avery, perhaps that something will be saved.  From the most powerful <BR>
man in Known Space to a forgotten claimant in a war to destruction.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:03:21 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SongsFrom the keyboard of LKW:<BR>
<BR>
>Another technique is to sing the ode to Joy from Beethoven's 9th to the<BR>
tune <BR>
>of "Mt Darling Clementine" (or vice versa). You can do it to the<BR>
Christmas <BR>
>carol _Deck the Halls_ if you leave in the "Fa-la-la-la"s<BR>
<BR>
>"In a cavern, in a caynon, Fa-la-la-la, La-la-la-la,<BR>
>Excavating for a mine, Fa-la-la-la, La-la-la-la,"<BR>
<BR>
>etc.<BR>
<BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
If I may be so bold.  Try this one out:<BR>
<BR>
Sing Amazing Grace to the tune of Gilligan's Island and visey-versy!<BR>
No kidding!  It can be done!<BR>
<BR>
"A-maz-ing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a retch like me...<BR>
I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see...<BR>
Blind but now I see! ( A three hour tour...)"<BR>
<BR>
Some truly evil SCA herald/bard told me about that one and it still drills<BR>
into my head every now and again.<BR>
<BR>
\  // Commander X<BR>
 \//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
T E K  Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //\  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm<BR>
//  \ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:39:31 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starports Cover Art - SPOILER ALERT<BR>
<BR>
At 19:11 -0500 23/3/00,  Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu> wrote:<BR>
>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> > At 14:54 -0500 23/3/00, Doug Berry wrote:<BR>
> > > >I refuse to deny the rumour that Famille Spofulam are also <BR>
>mentioned in ACQ.<BR>
> > > >The penguins made us do it.<BR>
> > >And Rod and I get blown up in it. :)  *Never* use "Fizzle-Pop" energy<BR>
> > >cells. Trust me.<BR>
> > And watch out for Gridlore Technology's Superdense Frying Pans, ideal<BR>
> > for all kitchen combat situations...<BR>
>As used by Steven Seagull in _The Penguinman_.<BR>
<BR>
Arghh! We're going to have to stop egging you on...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:31:40 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
<BR>
At 16:40 24.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Hi Guys,<BR>
><BR>
>Just finished another item, This is a PGMP-12. I got the idea from<BR>
>Traveller Digest #40's Cover. It said it was a PGMP for Traveller 2300 and<BR>
>I thought it would make a good tech 12 weapon. So I modeled it.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller Digest 40? 40? I believe you are putting us on, as TD ended with <BR>
issue 21....<BR>
<BR>
Or is there something that the Folks at DGP didnt want us to know?<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:14:48 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: For the world desingers..<BR>
<BR>
This is the same place where the earlier thread about acid-loving<BR>
bacteria came from. that article didn't go as deeply into the conditions<BR>
in that mine. Jesus! That's practically concentrated Sulfuric Acid in<BR>
there....<BR>
<BR>
Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> A large penguin wrote:<BR>
> > Tainted atmospheres? I got yer tainted atmospheres!<BR>
> > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle<BR>
> >                           /archive/2000/03/23/MN40103.DTL<BR>
> <BR>
> *face crumpled like a rassin*<BR>
> <BR>
> This... is... even... worse... than... lemons...<BR>
> <BR>
> As Jesse said, DAMN!<BR>
> <BR>
> At first I didn't see the last part of the link, so I had to search for<BR>
> articles about atmospheric taint published on the 23rd of March. I came<BR>
> up with this:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2000/03/23/international1939EST0836.DTL<BR>
> <BR>
> The article made me wonder what the air on Kirrur must be like...<BR>
> <BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:13:42 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
There's a new toy over at the Brunching Shuttlecocks site:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-cyborger.html<BR>
<BR>
While it only accepts names of seven or fewer letters (thus, "Spofulam" won't work), I was able to while away a few minutes with such TML icons as "Ditzie" and "Penguin."<BR>
<BR>
Share and enjoy!<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:03:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
<BR>
At 07:40 AM 3/24/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Just finished another item, This is a PGMP-12. I got the idea from<BR>
>Traveller Digest #40's Cover. It said it was a PGMP for Traveller 2300 and<BR>
>I thought it would make a good tech 12 weapon. So I modeled it.<BR>
<BR>
Nice!  One thing I'd change is the size of the recoil cylinder. The one you<BR>
have looks fairly small for the job it has to do.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:15:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: : Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 03:44 PM 3/24/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>He ends up sending away Avery to the Marches, destined to fade into <BR>
>obscurity and probably die holding back the tide of the collapse of <BR>
>trade and civilisation.<BR>
<BR>
In a TNE/Regency game we reached Usdiki seeking out whatever remained of<BR>
the Imperium. We found the planet deserted, with a single landing beacon<BR>
operating at the Summer Palace.<BR>
<BR>
We landed, and in the courtyard we found a simple tomb, with the Sunburst<BR>
and the words:<BR>
<BR>
"Here lies Strephon Aella Alkhalikol<BR>
Once the Emperor of the Third Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Died 1038<BR>
<BR>
Learn From Our Mistakes, and Remember That The Gods Punish Those Who Grow<BR>
Too Proud."<BR>
<BR>
That table was silent for about five minutes.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann writes:<BR>
> At 02:25 24.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I went through the Spinward Marches and Deneb, constructing reasonable J6<BR>
> >     routes.  Non-imperial worlds were left out with the exception of<BR>
> >     a client state in deneb<BR>
>   I always thought X-Boat routes were Jump-5 or Jump-4 (not sure which), <BR>
> but not Jump-6.<BR>
> Otherwise the Imperial Familys private J-6 Network wouldnt make sense.<BR>
<BR>
This is related to a discussion of why X-boat routes are J4.  The issue is<BR>
whether a private company could reasonably set up and sell mail service on <BR>
a J6 setup, and how large a gain it would be.  Based on what I've done, it<BR>
appears that the gain is large enough that a private company could easily<BR>
set up a market (particularly in specific markets -- the Regina-Efate-Jewell<BR>
run is just too good to pass up, for example).<BR>
> <BR>
> The X-Boat linkup was set up, when J-6 hadnt been develpoed yet and the <BR>
> cost of switching over was too high later on. The edge it gave the Nobility<BR>
>  was also a factor why not to improve the network...<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that it simply isn't that expensive to build your own.  FedEx<BR>
1105 is a perfectly reasonable business plan.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:19:11 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Greek relationships<BR>
<BR>
At 15:37 24.03.00 +0100, Holger Kadlez wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>"Douglas E. Berry" schrieb:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> At 07:28 PM 3/23/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >"Alle preisen die Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
>> <BR>
>> A new sig! I now have *four* penguin related sigs, my news business cards<BR>
>> have penguins on them, them damn things are starting to invade my sleep.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> doobie-doobie-doo....<BR>
>> --<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>In this case please try "Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!"<BR>
>--------------------------------------^^^<BR>
><BR>
>Otherwise you are either plural or female<BR>
>                                         ;-)<BR>
<BR>
IIRC plural was intended here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:27:23 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
> From: AuricTech Shipyards [mailto:aurictech@esweeet.com]<BR>
> <BR>
> There's a new toy over at the Brunching Shuttlecocks site:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-cyborger.html<BR>
<BR>
This is great!  I plugged in my email name (vargr1) and got:<BR>
<BR>
V.A.R.G.R.: Vigilant Android Responsible for Galactic Repair<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
How appropriate!<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:25:43 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
ROFL!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I know you can get the cd online, as about 6 months ago or so my buddy<BR>
Bryan did the same.  We had a great time listening to it again :)  I used to<BR>
have it on vinyl...<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
> Berry<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:49 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> At 05:41 PM 3/23/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Resteraunt<BR>
> >excepting Alice"<BR>
><BR>
> Dammnit! No I gotta go find that CD!<BR>
><BR>
> And filk it.<BR>
><BR>
> About Twilght's Peak.<BR>
><BR>
> For I too am not proud nor tired.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
> "But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
> perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
> limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:40:00 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: TML LG2k Bowman Belt<BR>
<BR>
>>Anyone know any other websites have some data on Efate or Bowman?<BR>
<BR>
>Hmm, Bowman belt does have a CT boxed set wholly devoted to it...<BR>
<BR>
>Its name is : "BELTSTRIKE".<BR>
>It was also released in German as "Brennpunkt Bowman Belt"...<BR>
<BR>
>- ---<BR>
>Volker A. Greimann<BR>
<BR>
Got that one from Swordy a while back...<BR>
:)<BR>
I also have the MT main rule books.<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:50:37 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
<BR>
>"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Resteraunt<BR>
>excepting Alice"<BR>
<BR>
Dammnit! No I gotta go find that CD!<BR>
<BR>
And filk it.<BR>
<BR>
About Twilght's Peak.<BR>
<BR>
For I too am not proud nor tired.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"NO!!!!!!<BR>
Not the epic poem, please!"<BR>
<BR>
Begging for mercy,<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:05:05 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
Jens Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
> > ;-) It was posted on the GROO-L (Groop) last week, and i thought it<BR>
> > fit right in with our ML as well ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> If my sources are correct, this text (not exactly, some parts are<BR>
> changed) was originally written by Mark Twain. Can anyone either support<BR>
> or correct my sources on this?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, he wrote an article on rationalizing English that is, essentially,<BR>
the same as this posting. I don't know where it was published<BR>
originally.<BR>
<BR>
I saw it in a collection (perhaps "The Essential Mark Twain", istr) a<BR>
long time ago.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:28:19 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 10:20 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann writes:<BR>
> At 02:25 24.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I went through the Spinward Marches and Deneb, constructing reasonable J6<BR>
> >     routes.  Non-imperial worlds were left out with the exception of<BR>
> >     a client state in deneb<BR>
>   I always thought X-Boat routes were Jump-5 or Jump-4 (not sure which), <BR>
> but not Jump-6.<BR>
> Otherwise the Imperial Familys private J-6 Network wouldnt make sense.<BR>
<BR>
This is related to a discussion of why X-boat routes are J4.  The issue is<BR>
whether a private company could reasonably set up and sell mail service on <BR>
a J6 setup, and how large a gain it would be.  Based on what I've done, it<BR>
appears that the gain is large enough that a private company could easily<BR>
set up a market (particularly in specific markets -- the Regina-Efate-Jewell<BR>
run is just too good to pass up, for example).<BR>
> <BR>
> The X-Boat linkup was set up, when J-6 hadnt been develpoed yet and the <BR>
> cost of switching over was too high later on. The edge it gave the<BR>
Nobility<BR>
>  was also a factor why not to improve the network...<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that it simply isn't that expensive to build your own.  FedEx<BR>
1105 is a perfectly reasonable business plan.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:29:24 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
Okay, now go do an adventure based on it.  Have one of the players get the<BR>
bright idea that they could start up a J-6 courier company.  Have them go<BR>
out looking for funding.  Have them figth with the Imperial bureacracy -<BR>
turn it into an adventure and see if they can pull it off and make it<BR>
profitable.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 10:20 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann writes:<BR>
> At 02:25 24.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I went through the Spinward Marches and Deneb, constructing reasonable J6<BR>
> >     routes.  Non-imperial worlds were left out with the exception of<BR>
> >     a client state in deneb<BR>
>   I always thought X-Boat routes were Jump-5 or Jump-4 (not sure which), <BR>
> but not Jump-6.<BR>
> Otherwise the Imperial Familys private J-6 Network wouldnt make sense.<BR>
<BR>
This is related to a discussion of why X-boat routes are J4.  The issue is<BR>
whether a private company could reasonably set up and sell mail service on <BR>
a J6 setup, and how large a gain it would be.  Based on what I've done, it<BR>
appears that the gain is large enough that a private company could easily<BR>
set up a market (particularly in specific markets -- the Regina-Efate-Jewell<BR>
run is just too good to pass up, for example).<BR>
> <BR>
> The X-Boat linkup was set up, when J-6 hadnt been develpoed yet and the <BR>
> cost of switching over was too high later on. The edge it gave the<BR>
Nobility<BR>
>  was also a factor why not to improve the network...<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that it simply isn't that expensive to build your own.  FedEx<BR>
1105 is a perfectly reasonable business plan.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:56:37 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
> > >I went through the Spinward Marches and Deneb, constructing reasonable J6<BR>
> > >     routes.  Non-imperial worlds were left out with the exception of<BR>
> > >     a client state in deneb<BR>
> >   I always thought X-Boat routes were Jump-5 or Jump-4 (not sure which),<BR>
> > but not Jump-6.<BR>
> > Otherwise the Imperial Familys private J-6 Network wouldnt make sense.<BR>
><BR>
>This is related to a discussion of why X-boat routes are J4.  The issue is<BR>
>whether a private company could reasonably set up and sell mail service on<BR>
>a J6 setup, and how large a gain it would be.  Based on what I've done, it<BR>
>appears that the gain is large enough that a private company could easily<BR>
>set up a market (particularly in specific markets -- the Regina-Efate-Jewell<BR>
>run is just too good to pass up, for example).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, but consider the price:<BR>
  They would need a couple of ships to transport data that is transported <BR>
almost for free on every sheduled XBOAT. Where would they get their profit <BR>
margin?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>The problem is that it simply isn't that expensive to build your own.  FedEx<BR>
>1105 is a perfectly reasonable business plan.<BR>
<BR>
For items, maybe, but that is taken care of by the great supplier lines <BR>
like Tukera and other freight companies already. And theyve also already <BR>
got their infrastructures which would be expensive to change.<BR>
<BR>
Also, Id imagine that J-6 technology is still very expensive (dont have <BR>
my rules here) or severely restricted by the Imperial government (I <BR>
remember to have read something along these lines either in CT or MT....).<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2176<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2177</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2177<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Archdukes and Domains<BR>
TFT Traveller<BR>
Re: Milagro<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
Tacit Blue Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
Re: : Re: Clone<BR>
Twilight's Filk was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
RE: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
Well, the first RFP for battledress has been issued<BR>
re:  Officers with their naught poking bits<BR>
Re:OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:43:36 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: Archdukes and Domains<BR>
<BR>
Chris wanted some info on the Domains of the Imerium and Archdukes.<BR>
Library Data Entry for "Third Imperium" - this is copied from an online<BR>
version, but the text is very close to what I read in the GT mainbook last<BR>
night:<BR>
<BR>
"During the Pacification Campaigns, Emperor Artemsus divided chartered space<BR>
into six regions, labeled them domains, and appointed an archduke over each<BR>
of them. To each archduke, he assigned the continuing pacification of the<BR>
domain's many systems and their integration into the Imperium. The domains<BR>
were: Sylea (Core, Fornast, Massila, Delphi), Vland (Corridor, Vland,<BR>
Gushemege, Dagudashag), Gateway (Ley, Glimmerdrift Reaches, Gateway, Crucis<BR>
Margin), Ilelish (Ilelish, Zarushagar, Reaver's Deep, Daibei), Antares<BR>
(Lishun, Antares, Mendan, Amdukan), and Sol (Diaspora, Old Expanses,<BR>
Solomani Rim, Alpha Crucis). Most of the domains were never totally absorbed<BR>
into the Imperium. <BR>
<BR>
In 589, during the First Frontier War, a seventh domain was established:<BR>
Deneb (Spinward Marches, Deneb, Trojan Reach, Reft). The intent was to<BR>
appoint an archduke to be responsible for their supervision. However, the<BR>
Civil War broke out before an archduke was appointed. <BR>
<BR>
Following the civil war, the emperors expressed concern about individuals<BR>
with powers equaling their own, so they moved to lessen the power of the<BR>
archdukes in the Imperial government. Because of this, no Archduke of Deneb<BR>
was ever appointed. As a result, the domains came to have little practical<BR>
significance. Each archduke did retain the power to create knights and<BR>
baronets. <BR>
<BR>
In the years after the Fourth Frontier War, and the problems it presented<BR>
from lags in communication, Emperor Strephon felt that a strengthened<BR>
archduke position could enable the Imperium to more quickly respond in the<BR>
defense of the realm. Against the protests and opposition of prominent<BR>
members of the Moot, Strephon has reinstituted a number of powers to the<BR>
domains, most notably the right to collect taxes."<BR>
 <BR>
I believe the GURPS entry also includes a year for the re-establishment of<BR>
the Domains and the note that Norris is the first Archduke of Deneb.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:55:15 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>>Well for one it give the Zodani way too much power...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Think of it...<BR>
>><BR>
>>When you run out of IQ for skill You have to go to<BR>
>>them to help you forget you knew how to do it...<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Pish. 2 skills per point of INT gives slightly more<BR>
>skills than Int+Edu from MT. Or invent a new drug<BR>
>"Mind Wipe" TL9, very rare, cost Cr.10,000. User<BR>
>loses one skill level of choice per dose taken.<BR>
>Note that long term abuse destroys an individuals<BR>
>ability to function in any manner whatsoever. Because<BR>
>of this the drug is illegal on many worlds (and sought<BR>
>by underworld types intent on personal protection.)<BR>
<BR>
Pshaw! Obvious y'all never really read ALL of ITL. You can "Forget" a<BR>
talent by non-use. Requires a few rolls, but it CAN be done. And Talents<BR>
normally take multiple slots. And you only get slots totalling your IQ.<BR>
<BR>
I've always felt that TFT NEEDED an "Education" stat: IQ would then<BR>
determine what complexity you can learn, while Ed would set how many slots<BR>
you got.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:03:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Milagro<BR>
<BR>
GT:FT => Gurps Traveller: Far Trader<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@mpgn.com><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>What is GT:FT?  My head has been in the sand too long.<BR>
><BR>
>Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:06:08<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
<BR>
At 12:50 PM 3/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>And filk it.<BR>
>For I too am not proud nor tired.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>"NO!!!!!!<BR>
>Not the epic poem, please!"<BR>
<BR>
Feh. I've already broken two of the canonical laws of filking by doing<BR>
American Pie and Banned From Argo, and I have a Wreck of the Edmund<BR>
Fitzgerald in the works, so why not comlete my fall in the Dark Side?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:19:30 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Tacit Blue Re: Ithklur and Hivers and Droyne, Oh MY!<BR>
<BR>
For general edification here are pictures of the Tacit Blue testbed<BR>
aircraft.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.stealthworld.com/TacitBlue.html<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, It looks exactly like what a YugoWorks stealth aircraft would look<BR>
like, and come in 25kcr less than the nearest competitor ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, but the F-117 ain't a flyin' breadbox either :)  It's non-box shape<BR>
> helped with the stealthing.  They also started making smoother stealth<BR>
> planes as soon as they could, with projects like the B2 and F22.  Closest<BR>
> thing to a flying box stealth plane was the original Tacit Blue technology<BR>
> demonstrator program.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:13:23 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: german groosim ?<BR>
<BR>
>Volker Greimann wrote:<BR>
>> ;-) It was posted on the GROO-L (Groop) last week, and i thought it<BR>
>> fit right in with our ML as well ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>If my sources are correct, this text (not exactly, some parts are<BR>
>changed) was originally written by Mark Twain. Can anyone either support<BR>
>or correct my sources on this?<BR>
><BR>
>/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
I've seen this many times over the years, and it's a very close (almost to<BR>
the point of plaguarism) parallel to one such spiel by Mark Twain.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:04:06 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: : Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 13:37 -0500 24/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
>In a TNE/Regency game we reached Usdiki seeking out whatever remained of<BR>
>the Imperium. We found the planet deserted, with a single landing beacon<BR>
>operating at the Summer Palace.<BR>
><BR>
>We landed, and in the courtyard we found a simple tomb, with the Sunburst<BR>
>and the words:<BR>
><BR>
>"Here lies Strephon Aella Alkhalikol<BR>
>Once the Emperor of the Third Imperium<BR>
><BR>
>Died 1038<BR>
<BR>
1138?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Learn From Our Mistakes, and Remember That The Gods Punish Those Who Grow<BR>
>Too Proud."<BR>
><BR>
>That table was silent for about five minutes.<BR>
<BR>
Wow. Cool session.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:06:22 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Twilight's Filk was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2175<BR>
<BR>
At 13:37 -0500 24/3/00, Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com> wrote:<BR>
>>And filk it.<BR>
>>About Twilght's Peak.<BR>
>>For I too am not proud nor tired.<BR>
<BR>
>"NO!!!!!!<BR>
>Not the epic poem, please!"<BR>
<BR>
"We Died".<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"In the End I found beginnings, not a vision, a wake up call.<BR>
Raised from the dead by a beating heart and at last I can<BR>
   see it all. And my eyes were opened to the darkness.."<BR>
                   Fish /Raingods with Zippos/<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:37:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
<BR>
I missed the original post.  Could someone re-post the URL?<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818      <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
          64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.<BR>
                  Somehow, it didn't make the news.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:47:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
Volker Greimann writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm, but consider the price:<BR>
>   They would need a couple of ships to transport data that is transported <BR>
> almost for free on every sheduled XBOAT. Where would they get their profit <BR>
> margin?<BR>
<BR>
From people being willing to spend more for faster returns.  A J-6 mail<BR>
route requires around 10 MCr/year to operate, and fast information can be<BR>
worth a lot -- on routes like regina/efate/jewell, where you are literally<BR>
twice as fast, it could amount to as much as 1% of the bilateral trade.<BR>
As such, it's possibly viable on any feeder route ( 1+ GCr/year) and <BR>
likely to be viable on any main route (10+ GCr/year).<BR>
<BR>
> >The problem is that it simply isn't that expensive to build your own. <BR>
> >FedEx 1105 is a perfectly reasonable business plan.<BR>
> <BR>
> For items, maybe, but that is taken care of by the great supplier lines <BR>
> like Tukera and other freight companies already. And theyve also already <BR>
> got their infrastructures which would be expensive to change.<BR>
<BR>
There's not really a J-6 infrastructure.  The issue is 'getting it there<BR>
fast'.<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, Id imagine that J-6 technology is still very expensive (dont have <BR>
> my rules here) or severely restricted by the Imperial government (I <BR>
> remember to have read something along these lines either in CT or MT....).<BR>
<BR>
With exchange rate differences, in GT J-6 couriers are 2-3X as expensive <BR>
as J-4 couriers.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:57:11 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
> Well, if it's true for the Emperor, it may be true for much of the<BR>
> nobility, as I would think they would tend to follow the practices of the<BR>
> Imperial court.<BR>
Family bonds are deep structures. It's very difficult for a culture to "give<BR>
up" their understanding of family in favor of another. Family structures<BR>
don't tend to change much in a culture, and are certainly not faddish.<<BR>
<BR>
I wasn't really thinking of it as a fad.  When Cleon was forming the<BR>
Imperium, noble families that followed his lead probably found it easier to<BR>
gain legitamacy in the new governmental structure that was being formed.  A<BR>
thousand years later, anything adopted when the Imperium was formed would be<BR>
deeply imbeded.  Any family that adopted the nuclear family structure to<BR>
gain legitemacy with Cleon would now consider it a part of their identity.<BR>
<BR>
> You're right though, really the only examples we have are the Emperor,<BR>
> Dulinor (who's brother is in a high position and who's daughter is<BR>
> now Archduchess), and Norris.<BR>
We know Dulinor has a daughter and a brother, but how do we know that he<BR>
doesn't have 3 wives at home?<<BR>
<BR>
Why, that would make him even more like the modern culture here in Utah.<BR>
(That was a JOKE.  We really don't have 3 wives a piece out here any more -<BR>
not since the 1890s)<BR>
<BR>
> There's another possiblity - psionics are illegal because they are not<BR>
> a prevalent influence on our own culture, and the Imperium<BR>
> resembles ours in the absence of psionic powers.<BR>
It doesn't, though. There are people with psionic abilities. Some of them<BR>
are even player characters. The Spinward Marches, a popular campaign<BR>
setting, border on the Zhodani Consulate, an interstellar community with a<BR>
culture that relies heavily on psionic abilities.<BR>
If they wanted psionics to be absent, I would imagine that they wouldn't<BR>
have put them in.<<BR>
<BR>
I said they weren't a prevalent influence on our culture, not that they were<BR>
absent.  There are  people who believe psionic powers do exist today, but<BR>
are not powerful enough or widely recognized enough to be an influence on<BR>
our culture. <BR>
I'm not trying to say the Zhodnai resemble an earthbound culture, so leave<BR>
them out of it.  <BR>
<BR>
<guns><BR>
> I am probably showing my Americo-centro views on many of these<BR>
> points.  But the designers of the game live in America, so maybe this<BR>
> one is a valid point.<BR>
Okay. Guns are available, at least in theory, in both cultures. However, how<BR>
guns fit into that culture might be vastly different, and how a culture uses<BR>
guns might be vastly different.<BR>
Private individuals can control private armies with lots of large scale,<BR>
high-tech equipment. Not only can they own private armies, they can employ<BR>
these private armies for profit and kill individuals on a large scale within<BR>
the Imperium totally legally.<<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  Maybe that aspect of Imperial culture is more like Central American<BR>
culture then?<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm.  I guess I'm no historian.  The Cold War was a major<BR>
> influence in America in the 70s and 80s, and that's when the game<BR>
> was designed, so it seems a likely paralell.<BR>
Oh no, I'm not saying it's not a parallel. It is, and I think it was<BR>
certainly inspired by the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet<BR>
Union. It doesn't indicate to me that the Imperium is like the U.S., it<BR>
indicates to me that the Imperium is a major power in known space and it has<BR>
come into conflict with another major power.<BR>
The situation at the Solomani Rim, for example, seems to be parallel to the<BR>
situation in the Middle East, with the Imperium as Israel. Does that mean<BR>
that Imperial culture is like Israeli culture?<<BR>
<BR>
The Autonomous Region is in a situation similar to Israel, I suppose.  Sure,<BR>
I suppose you could say that the Autonomous Region has a cultural attitude<BR>
similar to the Israeli - specifically that they're on occupied land,<BR>
surrounded by fanatics that hate them.  Works for me.  <BR>
<BR>
>A lot of your examples here are kind of like saying, "most vegetables have<BR>
skin covering, humans<BR>
have skin covering, hence, vegetables are humans."<<BR>
<BR>
Well, a lot of your counter arguments are that the things I'm pointing out<BR>
resemble other cultures.  Why don't you point out what is distinctive about<BR>
our own culture, and I'll tell you how it relates to the Imperium.  A lot of<BR>
Western Culture is based on its predecessors (it could hardly avoid that).<BR>
Instead of wasting my time setting up pins for you to knock down, give me<BR>
some rope and I'll see if I can tie a knot without hanging myself.<BR>
If you can't say that there's anything distinctive about Western Culture,<BR>
then you can't say that the Imperium doesn't resemble it either.<BR>
<BR>
> >Let me also point out that Imperial citizens have no rights, implicitly<BR>
> or explicitly, with the exception of a right to be free from one specific<BR>
> form of slavery. That's it.<<BR>
><BR>
> The concept of "Nobilese Oligese", or however it's spelled, gives the<BR>
> implicit right that the citizens of the Imperium have competant<BR>
> government. This is a big concept in the T:NE materials, and how the<BR>
> Rebellion was a betrayal of the people.<BR>
> Other than that you do appear to be correct.<BR>
Fair enough. Nobles are supposed to be competent. However, I'm not going to<BR>
wander into TNE materials because you're talking about a span of many years<BR>
in which the Imperium has been wiped out and the old culture has died. If<BR>
you want to say that the New Era tries to look like 20th Century Americans<BR>
in space, in a number of fashions, I will agree with you. The designers of<BR>
TNE explicitly stated this.<<BR>
<BR>
The idea in the T:NE materials was that "Nobilese Oligese" had been a<BR>
primary feature in the growth of the Third Imperium, and had then been<BR>
betrayed by the Rebellion, when the individual leaders of the Imperium<BR>
decided that their own bid for power was more important than the integrity<BR>
of the Imperium as a whole.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:03:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>Remind me to write and post a Traveller filk to some truly <BR>
>obnoxious song, as revenge (I'm currently thinking of one to <BR>
>*shudder* Neil Diamond's "Sweet Caroline" [working title:  <BR>
>"Tukera Lines"]).<BR>
<BR>
Love is a nose<BR>
but you better not pick it<BR>
it only blows<BR>
with boogers that shine<BR>
<BR>
Oh, never mind.  You know, there is a song to the tune of Petula<BR>
Clark's "Downtown" that concerns not being able to get<BR>
"Downtown" out of your mind.  One companion on a cross-country<BR>
ski trip a couple of years ago sang it. And sang it.  And sang<BR>
it.  We nearly left him at the trailhead when we got back to the<BR>
car, but some of our gear was in his car at the other trailhead.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  Low berth takes care of this problem very well.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:08:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
<BR>
>Jeopardy ("Our game's in jeopardy," when shaking my head in <BR>
>stunned disbelief at some of the flamewars about particularly<BR>
>silly and irrelevant parts of "Canon.").<BR>
<BR>
"I'll take Silly and Irrelevant Parts of Canon for Cr100, Alex."<BR>
<BR>
"OK, and remember to phrase your answer in the form of a<BR>
question."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:10:02 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/24/00 1:42 AM, Leonard Erickson<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Heck, keep in mind things like my favorite "fun fact" about California<BR>
> during the Gold Rush. They were shipping *laundry* to *Hawaii* to get<BR>
> done. By *sailing ship*.<BR>
<BR>
You're not the type to jest like this Leonard, and AFAIK rarely wrong. But I<BR>
am quite shocked, where did you hear this? How much did it cost? This seems<BR>
*very* odd.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:14:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
>From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
<BR>
>I just subscribed to TML (the Traveller mailing list for us <BR>
>GURPS types) a couple of days ago, and one concept that appears<BR>
<BR>
>repeatedly is that a "lanathium(sp?) grid" in hull of the <BR>
>jumpship conducts the energy to open the hole into jump space <BR>
>and protects the vessel from its effects. If so, does this mean<BR>
<BR>
>*every* auxilary vehicle that may be carried in an external <BR>
>cradle must have such a grid in its hull whether it is jump <BR>
>capable or not? Are external vehicle cradles (and by extension <BR>
>LASH tenders) even *allowed* in canonical Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Welcome to the list.  I've always assumed that battle riders<BR>
must have lanthanum grids which are connected to the carriers'<BR>
grid.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:01:06 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: It's official - I'm a learnin'<BR>
<BR>
Generally, around 75 yards (around 65-70 metres) was considered<BR>
effective range until around the mid-1700s. By the late 1700s, that<BR>
was up to around 100 yards and by 1812 (against Russia) French troops<BR>
claimed an effective range of up to 120 yards. At Waterloo the British<BR>
skirmish line to the left of La Hey Sainte fired at 150 yards using<BR>
standard Brown Bess muskets.<BR>
<BR>
Effective range is not the same as overall range though - it is the<BR>
range you can hit what you aim at most of the time. British marksmen<BR>
before 1805 claimed an average of 60% on-target hits at 100 yards.<BR>
With the Baker rifle, that went up to 75% at 200 yards (but you don't<BR>
care about that, you're asking about muskets). British tactics, and to<BR>
a certain extent the Dutch and Prussian, were to form in line<BR>
(three-deep for the British and Dutch, four-deep for the Prussians)<BR>
and fire as unaimed voleys at a long range in the hope that a rain of<BR>
hot lead would cut the enemy apart. For instance, at Salamanaca the<BR>
British fired at Spanish and French troops across the river and<BR>
(acording to my map in front of me) at a range of around 250-300 yards<BR>
(the scale is not very accurate on my map). Although they couldn't<BR>
aim, they decimated the enemy. Similarly, the French tactics were also<BR>
dominated by range issues although they took the opposite view to the<BR>
British - they grouped their men in massive columns one to three<BR>
regiments abreast and up to 5 regiments deep. The so-called Grand<BR>
Column meant that the inaccurate fire at a distance hit a lot of men,<BR>
but there were always more behind them to scare the crap out of the<BR>
volley-firing men (as you pointed out).<BR>
<BR>
All of this, of course, is the origin of the phrase "the thin red<BR>
line" which referred to the British and Dutch order of line for volley<BR>
fire (both wore red jackets). It is also worth pointing out that these<BR>
tactics only work in field combat and not in guerilla tactics as were<BR>
used in the American War of Independence - so the information from<BR>
1776 may not be very helpful. I suggest you refer to Glover's "The<BR>
Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815".<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and finally, the officers never would force the men to fight as<BR>
you suggest. That was the sergent's and NCOs job and is the reason why<BR>
they carried damn great spears at the time. They would very rarely<BR>
actually attack their own men, but would use the spears to push the<BR>
men forward and to threaten them. Men still broke and ran - morale was<BR>
the single issue that won and lost battles and wars and is the origin<BR>
of Ney's comment that "an army marches on its stomach". Poorly fed men<BR>
would quickly rebel since morale was too low.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:22:29 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Well, the first RFP for battledress has been issued<BR>
<BR>
See:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.darpa.mil/baa/baa00-34.htm<BR>
<BR>
"Weeee represent the Heavily Armed Guild,<BR>
	the Heavily Armed Guild,<BR>
	the Heavily Armed Guild!<BR>
<BR>
 Weeee represent the Heavily Armed Guiiiiild!<BR>
	And Welcome you to Munchkin Land!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:21:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Officers with their naught poking bits<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>BTW - best discipline in a movie - Yellow Beard - Man on deck <BR>
>of 17th C frigate laughs - Captain's response; 'Nail that man's<BR>
<BR>
>feet to the deck'. Four scenes later in a gale, he's still <BR>
>there.<BR>
<BR>
"Yeah, it's true, Dinsdale, he did nail me 'ead t' th' floor,<BR>
but, I deserved it, an' all."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:24:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net><BR>
Subject: Re:OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:13:42 -0800 (PST)<BR>
>From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
>Subject: OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
>There's a new toy over at the Brunching Shuttlecocks site:<BR>
<BR>
>http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-cyborger.html<BR>
<BR>
>While it only accepts names of seven or fewer letters (thus, "Spofulam"<BR>
won't work), I was able to while >away a few minutes with such TML icons<BR>
as "Ditzie" and "Penguin."<BR>
<BR>
>Share and enjoy!<BR>
<BR>
X.T.E.K.: eXperimental Technician Engineered for Killing<BR>
<BR>
<FNORD><BR>
They know far too much.  Send in the Penguins, Swallows and EMPAWS<BR>
(Elephant Mounted...you know.)<BR>
</FNORD><BR>
<BR>
\  // Commander X<BR>
 \//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
T E K  Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //\  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm<BR>
//  \ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:28:27 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Socialist Democrat?<BR>
<BR>
Boris Cibic wrote:<BR>
> > Dulinor was not a  Liberal,  he  was  a  cowardly  and  impatient<BR>
> > incompetant!<BR>
> <BR>
> His cowardly action does not make him any less of a liberal.  <BR>
<BR>
In and of itself this is true.  But there is a difference between<BR>
what someone says they believe and what  they  actually  believe.<BR>
To find out what someone actually  believes  you  have  to  watch<BR>
their actions (especially in a crisis).  "'Character' is what you<BR>
are in the dark."  Dulinor may have spoken as a  liberal  but  he<BR>
didn't conduct himself as one.  Stripped of  their  rhetoric  his<BR>
actions appears to be nothing more than a bloody power grab.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Today, liberals advocate working within the system but when <BR>
> confronted against a calcified power structure such as the 3I.<BR>
> They would soon turn toward other means...<BR>
<BR>
Using force to effect change when working within  the  system  is<BR>
not an option is one thing.  Vandalising the system just  so  you<BR>
can rest control of one small piece and do with it as you will is<BR>
something else.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>   He did not lead his domain  to  rebel  against  the<BR>
> Imperium on the back of a popular uprising.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well...he did try to lay the foundation in his own Domain.  He<BR>
> did try to institute the battle to win their hearts and minds.<BR>
> As we all know, Dlan was the center of the most rebellious<BR>
> sector (Illeish).  <BR>
<BR>
He would have had  more  credability  if  Illelish  had  rebelled<BR>
against the 3I while 'legitimate' emperor was still alive.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ileish could have just boiling over with a populace ready for a<BR>
> fight.  Why else would they then die in Dulinor's wars. <BR>
<BR>
Okay, so Dulinor says to them: "I just killed  the  emperor,  you<BR>
choose: me or Lucan.  Oh, and I have a fleet commanded by one  of<BR>
my relatives in your system."  Some choice!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Because of noblesse obligese?  Well, only if that particular<BR>
> noble offered them a more tangible set of goods.  And, Dulinor<BR>
> did just that...he promised to transform the institutions of<BR>
> the 3I into becoming a Liberal Democracy.<BR>
<BR>
Three points:<BR>
<BR>
1) A promise from an idiot who can't deliver isn't very tempting.<BR>
<BR>
2) I think you are misunderstanding a fundamental aspect  of  the<BR>
   3I: it only rules the  space  between  the  planets.  In  many<BR>
   respects its more akin to the UN the any  single  contemporary<BR>
   nation.  Many  Imperial  citizens  *were*  living  happily  in<BR>
   democracies.  Others might prefer  alternatives  to  democracy<BR>
   and by living happily in these alternatives.  All depending on<BR>
   the local planet.<BR>
<BR>
3) Democracy is over-rated, not everyone has a fetish for it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >   Nor did he  properly<BR>
> > execute the established means of  replacing  an  emperor  through<BR>
> > assassination.  What he did do was plunge the 11000  worlds  into<BR>
> > chaos by killing the emperor and leaving them with the problem of<BR>
> > succession to the  throne.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well...what would you do a battalion of Marines approaching in<BR>
> Full Battle Dress armed with Plasma Rifles dedicated to<BR>
> maintaining the status quo.  Hold out with your rebels, hoping<BR>
> that the conservative Moot would pronounce your succession<BR>
> legal?  The Core sector, as well, would have not been too <BR>
> sympathetic to a boy from the Provinces trying to rewrite the <BR>
> rules.<BR>
<BR>
Given the succession issue many of the Moot may  very  well  have<BR>
ratified  Dulinor  if  he'd  stayed  and  surrendered  to   their<BR>
authority.  I'm sure many nobles would have preferred Dulinor  to<BR>
Lucan, but when he ran away he denied them the choice.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >  He  then  used  that  chaos  to  give<BR>
> > himself power in his own domain which  he  kept  through  careful<BR>
> > media manipulation.<BR>
> <BR>
> Remember he had ultimate power.<BR>
<BR>
Er, to  paraphrase:  "power  corrupts,  ultimate  power  corrupts<BR>
ultimately".<BR>
<BR>
Actually, with  ultimate  power  comes  ultimate  responsibility:<BR>
responsibility not to get killed all the people he  professed  to<BR>
be trying to improve the life of.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The war for the hearts and minds is always difficult.  Monopoly<BR>
> on the means of communication goes a long way in securing that<BR>
> control.  Was he any more manipulative, than any others?<BR>
<BR>
No he wasn't.  Nor was his cause any more just than  the  others,<BR>
either ... actually it was a lot less just.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> What you are proposing was that Dulinor made a Coup d'etait <BR>
> rather than a revolution.<BR>
<BR>
That's *exactly* how I see it.  And he bungled it too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In one sense, I would agree with you but concurrent with the<BR>
> discussion on culture in the 3I, we do not know how progressive<BR>
> or regressive the Imperium is.  We always assume the 3I is the<BR>
> USA,UK, Finland, Germany or some form of government that we may<BR>
> be personally familiar with.<BR>
<BR>
As I said above: as  far  as  the  day-to-day  life  of  most  3I<BR>
citizens were concerned the closest metaphor for the 3I today  is<BR>
the UN.  (The USA metaphor is best to describe  the  relationship<BR>
between the 3I and its neighbours, but that isn't relevant here.)<BR>
We tend to have a distorted view of the relevance of  the  3I  in<BR>
day-to-day life because the 3I has a much greater impact  on  the<BR>
lives of PCs - but PCs are  not  representative  of  the  general<BR>
population.<BR>
<BR>
Thought experiment:  Supposing the UN were meeting  in  New  York<BR>
and  the  British  PM  nuked  the  city  because   the   UN   was<BR>
undemocratic.  Where  would  your  allegence  be?  That  is  what<BR>
Dulinor did: he caused the death  of  an  uncountable  number  of<BR>
people because he disagreed with the politics of some institution<BR>
which has only a marginal effect on the life of the  guy  in  the<BR>
street!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Dulinor simply believed that the current political structure<BR>
> was not compatible with the economic base, perhaps... Or he was<BR>
> an Idealist.<BR>
<BR>
He was an ass!  Even Strephon came to realise  that  to  continue<BR>
fighting would just cause more death and  destruction.  And  even<BR>
though his cause was right only Strephon had the courage  to  put<BR>
the needs of his people before his own and bow out of the fight.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2177<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2178<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
Welcome to TL8<BR>
Re: Songs<BR>
Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (long again, sorry)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 04:12:19 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:53:49 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (was Cultural Relativism)<BR>
> <BR>
[SNIP]<BR>
> <BR>
> Sadists are a bit harder to explain, but suffice it to say that they<BR>
> enjoy making masochists happy.<BR>
> <BR>
	The old joke: Masochist says "Hurt me", Sadist says "No".<BR>
<BR>
	Thanks Leonard for this analysis. While I would never use a world like<BR>
this IMTU, and would never go anywhere near this stuff in real life, it<BR>
gives an apt description of the diversity of life, culture and opinion<BR>
on this world. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 04:33:21 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Welcome to TL8<BR>
<BR>
	Found this article on Slashdot<BR>
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/03/23/1011217&mode=thread<BR>
<BR>
	About DARPA wanting to build Battledress:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.darpa.mil/baa/baa00-34.htm<BR>
<BR>
	So power up your design spreadsheets. How much powered armor can you<BR>
build at TL 8.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:22:00 +1100<BR>
From: "Rob Knight" <rkn@melbpc.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Songs<BR>
<BR>
On Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:54:21 EST, LKW posted:<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> I suggest repeated playing of Blue Swede's _Hooked on a Feeling_<BR>
><BR>
> "Oooga-Chucka, Oooga-Chucka, Oooga-Oooga-Oooga-Chucka!"<BR>
<BR>
Careful, your age is showing - Time to make those rolls on the aging table!<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:29:54 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (long again, sorry)<BR>
<BR>
	This discussion is science *fiction*, about a planet intended to make<BR>
players feel unsettled and unsure, and be a source of conflict and high<BR>
drama.  It features a society founded on sexual bondage, discipline,<BR>
sadism, and masochism as the normal way of life, but the culture is having<BR>
problems under the strains of population growth and sustaining itself<BR>
through the generations.  Many of the individuals who live there are<BR>
becoming neurotic or even psychotic under the personal strain of the larger<BR>
societal stresses.  Their behavior is also discussed in this email.  If<BR>
there are readers who are offended by this, I apologize right now.  Please<BR>
say so, either on the list or in private email to me, and I will drop this<BR>
subject from the list as a matter of courtesy and respect for others'<BR>
feelings.  Or, you may choose to scroll past it, to other threads on the list.<BR>
<BR>
	Shadow and I have pretty much similar viewpoints, but there are<BR>
differences.  I will be commenting on both similarities and differences.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
On 23 Mar 2000 at 22:53 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<<<This is getting long, so there will be unnoted snippage in places to<BR>
shorten it.  I don't think meaning will be lost anywhere.>>><BR>
><BR>
>Consider that the origunal setup involves at least as much *love* as a<BR>
>typical *marriage*. So it might pay to consider spousal abuse, and see<BR>
>what transposes from the one situation to the other. <BR>
><BR>
>On the other hand, *avoiding* that sort of problem is one of the<BR>
>reasons the BDSM community tends to be *really* leery of "full time"<BR>
>master/slave relationships. So I expect that the laws will actually<BR>
>*anticipate* many of the possible abuses.<BR>
<BR>
	Whether the crusading and idealistic types who create such a community<BR>
originally actually succeed at their perfect vision is open to debate.<BR>
There will be honest differences of opinion among them, different<BR>
motivations, not everyone there may actually be idealistic and have more<BR>
selfish motives instead.  They may not have the greatest skill and luck at<BR>
writing their laws and creating their governmental institutions either.<BR>
What if the founding idealogues are from the extreme of the BDSM community<BR>
and think that safeties and consent are for people who haven't sufficiently<BR>
committed to "real" BDSM?  So, even getting the original setup right is a<BR>
challenge.  And besides, I want to be sure to create a place for<BR>
adventuring where the society is dysfunctional.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Depending on exactly how this *dysfunctional* world fleshes out, spousal<BR>
abuse may not even be considered abuse by the law!  If it was a bunch of<BR>
sane and seasoned BDSMers who are skilled at governance, surely the<BR>
founders would make good provisions about spousal abuse.  I'm starting to<BR>
think in terms of a balkanized world, where different permutations of this<BR>
attempted society exist.  Some having done a better job than others.  Or,<BR>
maybe just have the spectrum of healthy to unhealthy represented within one<BR>
lone culture on the planet.  Both setups have their advantages for a referee.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>What's more likely to happen (and *far* more "tragic") is the sub being<BR>
>*too* "selfless". Even though they have the *right* to walk out, they<BR>
>*won't*. It's not exactly the same as Stockholm Syndrome, or the<BR>
>tendency of abused spouses to not wish to leave. But it is similar.<BR>
<BR>
	Interesting analogies, you explained that syndrome well.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Worse, and this is a *real* problem in dom/sub relationships *now*, is<BR>
>you can get into a situation where the sub gets into a headspace<BR>
>where "If Master/Mistress wants it, it's fine" Regardless of the fact<BR>
>that they aren't enjoying it or actually loathe it. In essence, the<BR>
>situation is no longer "consensual" because the sub has crossed an<BR>
>internal, mental line and is no longer *capable* of withholding<BR>
>consent, which means that their "consent" is worthless...<BR>
<BR>
	Did they create a legal system that covers this?  Covers it well?<BR>
Adventure idea:  Planet BDSM is looking for psionic individuals to help<BR>
with law enforcement.  Of course, that's illegal within the Imperium.  BDSM<BR>
doesn't want to lose Imperial status, but also believes strongly that<BR>
psionics could be a vital tool.  There are a couple of handfuls of good<BR>
short term and longer term plot ideas in this.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>When the dominant partner finds out, the results are often devastating.<BR>
>It's *not* a nice feeling to discover that you've been *abusing*<BR>
>someone, rather than engaging in "shared play". Trust me on this one...<BR>
<BR>
	I can well imagine.  Actually have already imagined.  Sorry.  :-<<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> perhaps a family of slaves are particularly unfairly deprived of their<BR>
>> inheritance when their parents die?<BR>
><BR>
>That sounds more like run of the mill abuses that happen in any<BR>
>society. How often do you hear about a lawyer playing games with the<BR>
>*letter* of the law so as to screw someone over.<BR>
<BR>
	That's mostly my point.  Take a common conflict, and see how it weaves<BR>
itself rather differently in the circumstances.  Since the rules of this<BR>
government are inextricably tangled with social mores, but it is all NEW,<BR>
people who are treated unjustly by government might blame the new<BR>
government...and some mores as well.  If the victims are telegenic and<BR>
popular, this could be dangerous.  What if Reverend Alsh Arpton gets involved?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> democratic elections?<BR>
><BR>
>What makes you think that they *wouldn't* have such? Your<BR>
>preconceptions are showing. :-)<BR>
<BR>
	The preconception that's showing is my belief there will be at least some<BR>
people who believe that the subs/slaves aren't being represented fairly or<BR>
even are being prohibited from voting.  There will be people who argue<BR>
this.  Much like your citation elsewhere about the argument a hundred years<BR>
ago for not allowing women to vote.  Heck, who knows, the people on Planet<BR>
BDSM who argue this might have a point.  I haven't decided yet just how<BR>
perfect a job the government is doing at making sure no one has their<BR>
rights violated.  Also, I haven't decided yet whether there are elections<BR>
at all on this particular planet.  The fact that people immigrated to a<BR>
place to create their own vision of a BDSM society doesn't mean anything<BR>
one way or the other about whether they decide to operate as a democracy.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>More likely is a scandal over doms telling their subs how to vote. Much<BR>
>like the old argument about "women shouldn't vote, because their<BR>
>husbands or fathers will tell them how to vote!" Yes, that was a *real*<BR>
>argument!<BR>
<BR>
	Good point.  Perhaps material for an overheard conversation or a local<BR>
news broadcast the players hear when first arriving.  Should help get<BR>
things rolling.  I'd guess this debate would have been settled when their<BR>
constitution or whatever was written, but not necessarily.  It took the USA<BR>
a hundred years to straighten out our constition on the matter of slavery,<BR>
even though the debate was important when it was originally written.  Some<BR>
would argue we still haven't finished straightening our government out on<BR>
the issue completely.  (Please, the TML is not the place for that thread,<BR>
let's not start it.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> The mere presence of outworlders may well tend to cause natives to<BR>
>> feel strained and behave more extremely, as they feel (or at least<BR>
>> imagine) the judgmental eyes of outsiders on them.<BR>
><BR>
>More likely are problems with "wannabees" who are actually there just<BR>
>to "watch the show" rather than actually *contribute* to the society by<BR>
>actually *participating*. (Another real world problem with "public"<BR>
>BDSM venues)<BR>
<BR>
	Yup, "true believers" would probably just emigrate to Planet BDSM, not be<BR>
tourists.  The tourists would include lots of wannabees.  Or true believers<BR>
investigating whether to emigrate there or not.  Or anyone looking to see<BR>
something new.  Immigration laws should, ideally, try to deal with this.  I<BR>
doubt they can deal with it well.  But, if you accept the proposition that<BR>
such a society would be founded by people from the idealist and zealot end<BR>
of the BDSM spectrum, then they'd write laws that are too powerful and<BR>
unenforceable, with heavy political pressure to enforce them anyway.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Also, you'll have problems (*expected* ones, again) with immigrants who<BR>
>*don't* want to abide by the rules, and expect to be able to do<BR>
>anything they want. Dealing with *those* will lead to strong suspicion<BR>
>directed at outworlders. <BR>
<BR>
	See my previous comment.  I'm seeing a potential career writing detective<BR>
stories about the intelligent, mature, perceptive, and honest<BR>
4th-generation person who is a cop trying to deal with the myriad<BR>
difficulties you could send him/her into.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>On the other hand, they may deal with this by having a "resort" near<BR>
<BR>
>the starport where outworlders can indulge in many activities illegal<BR>
>elsewhere under some unobtrusive supervision. That way they are kept<BR>
>away from the rest of the population most of the time.<BR>
<BR>
	Good idea.  I suspect that it would still leak offworlders out into<BR>
society at large.  And be a draw for local petty thieves, con artists, and<BR>
others who prey on tourists.  Depending on the police and security<BR>
resources devoted to the resort, it could turn out a lot of ways.  Might be<BR>
fun to give them an unpredictable budget from year to year (for political<BR>
or economic reasons) and see the different effects created.  The place<BR>
would also tend to draw citizens who *wish* they could indulge their<BR>
fantasies more deeply and either think this enclave is a safe place to do<BR>
it, or don't mind risking the life/health of some wannabee tourist but do<BR>
mind risking their own loved ones.  <BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>  Children and grandchildren of the founders<BR>
>> often find themselves uninterested and vaguely repulsed by both the S & the<BR>
>> M side of life, yet they are being made to fit in.  Teenagers caught<BR>
>> necking in the basement without bondage, domination, nor torture are<BR>
>> punished by their parents.<BR>
<BR>
	I had to throw in the teenagers in the basement example, it was just too<BR>
amusing.  The disappointed parent, worried that there's something wrong<BR>
with their kid, trying to come up with the appropriate response.  The<BR>
simultaneously guilty and defiant child, "Mo-om!  I'm sorry.  But, but...I<BR>
didn't do anything wrong!"  Mom:  "What am I going to do with you?"<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Heck, I know several *doms* that are the<BR>
>masochist in the relationship. (And you should see the looks on the<BR>
>faces of folks with preconceptions when they encountered person who is<BR>
>chained up *ordering* his slave to whip him harder!)<BR>
<BR>
	LOL!  Excellent detail to throw at the players.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I do expect that some *third* generation children might have parents<BR>
>trying to push them in directions they don't want to go. Second<BR>
>generation kids won't have much of that, simply because their parents<BR>
>got too much of that from *their* parents.<BR>
<BR>
	I suspect even the second generation is going to have lots of problems.<BR>
YTU will handle this question according to how you feel about nature versus<BR>
nurture, I guess.  My take is that no amount of socialization is going to<BR>
sway most people into BDSM.  But, I'm extremely tentative on the point.  I<BR>
need to pick a policy on this question before I can really write up this<BR>
world.  Decisions, decisions.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>But this still isn't all that "different". Consider the "fun" gays, and<BR>
>would-be BDSMers have growing up. They are attracted to the "wrong" sex<BR>
>or turned on by the "wrong" sort of activities. And if their parents or<BR>
>peers find out, their lives become hell. Guess what the major causes of<BR>
>teen suicide are....<BR>
<BR>
	I'm curious whether you have any statistical sources that agree with that?<BR>
 I could easily believe it.  But I thought it was just that there has been<BR>
an increasing number of American parents who leave their children to be<BR>
raised by the school system and television, with no involvement or<BR>
affection from family.  Now my prejudices really are showing.  BTW, I'm not<BR>
indicting the school system, it's just that it can't be expected to be a<BR>
family too.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>At least until the founders die off, this world should be better than<BR>
>we are about "non-standard" interests. And likely better for some time.<BR>
><BR>
>After all, being interested in sex would be normal. I expect that the<BR>
>parents would be more likely to be wondering when on earth their kid(s)<BR>
<BR>
>were going to show an interest in something kinky...<BR>
<BR>
	I don't think I end up agreeing about the founders having been that<BR>
perfect.  I'm thinking the extremists are the ones who would go to all the<BR>
trouble of disrupting their lives and emigrating to a new world to do this.<BR>
 The more balanced onces will tend to be happier where they are.  Perhaps<BR>
the founders will have been *less* tolerant of other sexual interests?<BR>
Eager to legislate the lifestyle they fervently believe in as the only one<BR>
possible?  [Oops, typed "onces" instead of "ones".  Miguel Indurain, we<BR>
miss you.]<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Perhaps family members are "sold" into slavery.<BR>
><BR>
>And?<BR>
><BR>
>That is, if one of the kids is obviously a sub, then getting them<BR>
>trained right is a reasonable thing to do... It depends on how the<BR>
>"slave" feels about it. <BR>
<BR>
	It's quite possible to postulate situations on this planet where it would<BR>
be both ethical and legal to do this.  I think it's possible to create even<BR>
more situations where it would be either unethical, illegal, or both.<BR>
These situations would play differently with different Imperial officials,<BR>
local law enforcement people, public opinion locally and abroad, and the<BR>
players themselves.  I was just trying to seed some adventure ideas.  Left<BR>
the moral judgments for others to worry about.  Guess my real point, is<BR>
there will be plenty of people who take exception to this kind of<BR>
occurrence, right or wrong.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Perhaps the planet managed to originally avoid violating the Imperium's<BR>
>> slavery prohibition, but it's a fine line between what many of them<BR>
>> practice and what is illegal.  Not all of them will care.<BR>
><BR>
>*That* is both possible and a potential problem. But not one that won't<BR>
<BR>
>have been expected by the founders. <BR>
><BR>
>The problem will be policing such "sickos" (yes, even BDSM folks<BR>
>consider folks who do certain things to be "sick") in such a way as to<BR>
>keep the Imperium happy, while still preserving the rights they founded<BR>
>the colony to obtain.<BR>
<BR>
	Yep.  Although, again I'm thinking we shouldn't put too much faith in the<BR>
founders having done a perfect job.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Perhaps purveyors of truly illegal porn are drawn to this planet<BR>
>> likes flies to honey.<BR>
><BR>
>Likely, but they'd actually do better elsewhere for some things.<BR>
><BR>
>> Snuff films<BR>
><BR>
>Special effects can do those now *without* risking prosecution. And for<BR>
>those who want *real* snuff films (of which there are *no* confirmed<BR>
>instances) it's fairly easy to kidnap people *anywhere*. On *this*<BR>
>planet, *because* of the Imperial watchdogs, it's *really* hard to<BR>
>disappear. <BR>
<BR>
	Yes, but watching the film doesn't provide the same thrill when you know<BR>
it was special effects.  The BDSM planet would be a good place to look for<BR>
stars who actually volunteer for it.  Details of local laws haven't been<BR>
worked out yet, so I don't know whether the search could be conducted<BR>
openly or not.  But the film makers would probably believe Planet BDSM is a<BR>
great place to search.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Also, there's something you haven't considered. A culture that<BR>
>recognizes the right of masochists to indulge in activities that can<BR>
>cause greater or lesser amount of physical harm is going to draw some<BR>
>lines in *very* different places than we do. <BR>
<BR>
	:->  Actually, that's one of the fundamental aspects of this whole idea<BR>
for me.  It let's the referee present a society that is really alien to the<BR>
players.  And ask players to make choices they've never thought of before.<BR>
At least most of them.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>A snuff film could be made *legally* there if you could find a<BR>
>*volunteer* for the starring role. Maybe he (or she) has an incurable<BR>
>disease. Or maybe he's decided that going out in a "blaze of glory"<BR>
>while experiencing the "ultimate" is worth it. As long as he is *sane*,<BR>
>it's his right. <BR>
<BR>
	Maybe legal, maybe not.  Depends on the specific laws of the place.  I<BR>
certainly agree that there would be a lot of locals who don't see anything<BR>
wrong in it, as long as the star is chosen with sound methods and motives.<BR>
And there could easily be some citizens who are very active in making sure<BR>
safeties and are always observed by others and some of those people will be<BR>
genuine busybodies who want to intervene.  The Society for Prevention of<BR>
Cruelty to Subs might insist on banning these films or having a monitor on<BR>
the set or something.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> and nonconsensual torture,<BR>
><BR>
>I'm not sure if that sort of thing might be used as a criminal sentence<BR>
>or not. If it is, the government could sell the movie rights. Which<BR>
>could lead to abuses.<BR>
<BR>
	An aspect I hadn't thought of.  Thanks for more good material!  :-><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>If it's a non-governmental entity doing the torture, it'd be a<BR>
>violation of the most basic rules of the society. (probably derived<BR>
>from the current BDSM community's "Safe, sane, and consensual") <BR>
><BR>
>I can see some *very* surprised off-worlders getting arrested for<BR>
>trying this. I can also see the government sentencing them to star in<BR>
>their own film. :-)<BR>
<BR>
	Not sure I'm going to write the government in such a way that its likely,<BR>
but it's an interesting idea.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Child porn is *definitely* non-consensual. Though it's possible that<BR>
>they may have a better method of measuring maturity than chronological<BR>
>age. If they do, then sufficiently mature "children" might legally make<BR>
>what'd be considered child porn elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
	Doubt there is such a method, but the whole point of higher tech levels is<BR>
that things are being done that we here at the lower tech levels didn't<BR>
think were possible.  Clarke's Law and all that.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
>Other than that, there's no *advantage* to making "kiddie porn" there<BR>
>rather than elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
	Well, I suspect the film makers would feel like it's a good place to<BR>
recruit and operate.  Even if it's illegal there, it'd probably be easier<BR>
to cover what you're doing, because society at large has an appearance<BR>
relatively close to what you're trying to conceal.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Hmm. It just occured to me that some people have fantasies about being<BR>
>children or even babies. High TL medicine might be able to physically<BR>
>regress people that to childhood, if not babyhood. That could allow for<BR>
>perfectly *legal* "kiddie porn".<BR>
<BR>
	Whoa.  Now *that's* science fiction!  Good work.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>    A group of players may make planetfall, pick up a cargo and plan to<BR>
>> continue on.  But, a crusading citizen (local, or offworlder?) apprises<BR>
>> them of the nature of those innocent-seeming holorecordings they are<BR>
>> speculating in.  They were never expected to actually *open* the crates.<BR>
><BR>
>And the government would be grateful.<BR>
<BR>
	Yep.  But not the people who hired them.  <EG><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>    Perhaps the players are escorting a wealthy client to the planet, so the<BR>
>> client can indulge his sexual appetites in a way not possible at home.<BR>
><BR>
>Probably to the resort area...<BR>
<BR>
	Too cut and dried for my tastes.  First, I don't want a perfect barrier<BR>
between the wannabees and ideal citizens.  Two, not all citizens will be<BR>
ideal (they're only human).  Three, there's more meat to the adventure if<BR>
the players are involved in something that isn't too routine.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> With society going through changes hard for even the participants to fully<BR>
>> comprehend, the players are trying to escort their patron through this<BR>
>> alien place of almost byzantine personal relationships.  What people say,<BR>
>> what they *think* they mean even is often very different from what they<BR>
>> *really* mean.  Unexpected political struggles are quietly taking place.<BR>
><BR>
>The area for offworlders would be kept safe. It's only if they go<BR>
>beyond the resort that it might get scary.<BR>
<BR>
	See my opinions above about whether I think it's possible to neatly manage<BR>
the situation, as well as whether I think that is an interesting adventure<BR>
setting.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>For example, the very *first* piece of advice you get from a longtime<BR>
>BDSMer about getting into it is to *never* go off with someone without<BR>
>making sure someone else knows who you are going off with. It's the<BR>
>price you pay for not being able to tell the "real" BDSM types from the<BR>
>wannabees who don't know how to play safe and respect limits, and from<BR>
>the "sickos" like Dahmer.<BR>
<BR>
	Those are the nice, helpful, intelligent, mature BDSMers.  There are other<BR>
people who might offer advice to the players.  Or whom the players might<BR>
interrogate for information.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>    What happens when the Zhodani find themselves with no recourse but to<BR>
send<BR>
>> someone undercover into such a life?  (Have to invent a plausible reason<BR>
>> for it, though.)  I'm thinking it will be very hard to find a Zhodani<BR>
>> operative who isn't repulsed by S&M.  But, there might be a few.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
>Your pre-conceptions are showing. The Zhodani are likely to be more<BR>
>understanding than most Imperials. Because from their exploration of<BR>
>the human mind they'll *know* that some people have "inborn"<BR>
>pre-dispostions towards some of this. <BR>
<BR>
	Hmm, could be.  That doesn't fit the image I've developed of Zhodane over<BR>
the years, but I understand your point.  To take the argument to its next<BR>
step, Zhodane would have healthy, happy, functioning enclaves of BDSMers<BR>
within its borders.  Two assumptions that argument is based on are (1) the<BR>
Zhodani will think it's healthy to have these urges and act on them, and<BR>
(2) the Zhodani Powers That Be don't decide for their own personal reasons<BR>
that they have the technology to do something about this and want to do<BR>
something about this.  Perhaps they want to discourage violence--regardless<BR>
of the context.  Or think that we all have darker sides, but that doesn't<BR>
mean we should indulge them.  They're humans with psionic abilities, not<BR>
gods with infinite love.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>*NONE* of these activities are the result of mental illness. Check the<BR>
>DSM IV entries for any of them. They are only a problem needing<BR>
>treatment if they make the possesor uncomfortable or if they interfere<BR>
>with normal life. <BR>
<BR>
	I think DSM IV as an imperfect document at best, and don't want to use it<BR>
as the sole arbiter of what is healthy and what is illness.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Operatives who have had to immerse themselves in "unhealthy" life styles to<BR>
>> maintain cover before.  And have abandoned themselves to it.  There would<BR>
>> probably be a few who are kept around.  Their comrades probably go wash<BR>
>> their hands after talking to these people.<BR>
><BR>
>You are *assuming* that these lifestyles are unhealthy.<BR>
<BR>
	I put quotes around "unhealthy" because I'm talking about the POV of NPCs,<BR>
not my own.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>    Perhaps the Imperium feels more than the usual interest in keeping close<BR>
>> tabs on this planet.  Law enforcement types might want undercover agents<BR>
>> there, to ensure the slavery laws don't get broken.<BR>
><BR>
>Reasonable enough. Though they may find that agents burn out fast (if<BR>
>you aren't "into" this sort of thing, acting as if you are is going to<BR>
>make "keeping cover" *really* hard. Or else the agents go native,<BR>
>*because* they were "into it", even if they didn't realize it at first.<BR>
<BR>
	Yep, probably both kinds of agents will occur.  Assuming the Imperium has<BR>
the resources to devote to this kind of thing.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Ones [agents] who come to realize that they are interested in the "lifestyle"<BR>
>will need counseling (probably from the locals) to deal with feelings<BR>
>of guilt.<BR>
<BR>
	It's up to the agents where they go for counselling.  And as a referee, I<BR>
might find the agents more interesting if they don't seek counselling even<BR>
though they may need it.  And they may not seek counselling at all.  <BR>
Standard therapists' joke on Planet BDSM.<BR>
Q.  How many offworlders does it take to change a light emitter?<BR>
A.  Only one.  But first, it has to really *want* to change.<BR>
<BR>
>>    Perhaps high grade lanthanum ore is suddenly discovered on the<BR>
planet, and<BR>
>> it moves into the political and corporate fore as a result.  Just to add<BR>
>> some further twists and strains.<BR>
><BR>
>I want to see a typical corporate negotiator trying to deal with a dom<BR>
>who has spent his/her life learning the "voice of command" bit. Talk<BR>
>about intimidating opponents...<BR>
<BR>
	LOL!  Will have to hire the players to negotiate for the offworlders and<BR>
throw that at them.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>    And the best part about all this confusion and dramatic conflict is that<BR>
>> everyone the players meet has many visible ....accessories that make it<BR>
<BR>
>> possible for them to do some scary things to the players.<BR>
><BR>
>And unless things have gotten *really* disfunctional, none of them<BR>
>would *dream* of doing so unless asked. But the *players* don't know<BR>
>that! <BR>
<BR>
	Well, things have gotten dysfunctional.  And a lot of them do *dream* of<BR>
doing stuff like that.  It can and will happen (IMTU).  Yeah, one thing<BR>
that makes this a great adventure setting for me, is that the players will<BR>
have many uncertainties.  Parlty because of their own prejudices and partly<BR>
because the citizens themselves will be unpredictalbe.  As with any large<BR>
population, there will be different kinds of BDSMers.  The culture will be<BR>
dysfunctional enough that a lot of them will be feeling stressed and having<BR>
a really lousy day most of the time.  And in that setting, really scary<BR>
things can happen to the players if locals aren't upright, moral citizens.<BR>
Even if the things are illegal.<BR>
<BR>
>> The slave in heavy studded leather gear who has been stressing way<BR>
>> past his coping point for years and is ready to explode in anger and<BR>
>> vengeance.<BR>
><BR>
>Believe it or not, most people find submission to *relieve* stress.<BR>
>Mostly because I *wasn't* kidding in that bit when the slave said they<BR>
>had no responsibilities. <BR>
<BR>
	The people you're talking about are people who choose submission for<BR>
themselves.  Most citizens of this planet won't get a choice.  Maybe not<BR>
the law, but societal pressures, will force them to choose either dom or<BR>
sub or switchhitter.  IMTU, nature is strong enough versus nurture that<BR>
this forced choice will produce at least some citizens who are round pegs<BR>
pounded into square holes.  I haven't yet decided on the percentage of<BR>
people affected this way.  But I'm sure there will be at least a *few*<BR>
people like I described running around for players to bump into.  It could<BR>
be a dom or a sub.  The NPC's incipient explosion of violence can be<BR>
apparent or well concealed.  But one day, they're going to climb that clock<BR>
tower with a rifle.  Or start plying that whip way too hard and not stop.<BR>
Or kidnap a meddling offworlder (aren't they all?) and teach them a thing<BR>
or two.  This person is going to be way twisted, who knows exactly what<BR>
they'll do.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>And the "full time" folks will actually be fairly uncommon. Picture a<BR>
>strong, controlling business exec who, at the end of the day, changes<BR>
>into his slave outfit...<BR>
<BR>
	You're right.  Now I'm going to have to work out just how full time people<BR>
are.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>And it won't help if they [the players] see a pre-arranged "kidnap" scene<BR>
either.<BR>
<BR>
	LOL!  Good one.<BR>
<BR>
>> The friends and families of people who are being<BR>
>> victimized (at least in their eyes) who are increasingly desperate to<BR>
>> rescue their loved one, hatching plots.<BR>
><BR>
>This gets into the same sort of thing as kids joining "cults". Were<BR>
>they brain-washed or did they willingly convert?<BR>
<BR>
	Exactly.<BR>
><BR>
>Just keep in mind that the local laws *will* say something about this.<BR>
	Probably, maybe not.  I haven't decided how good the government is at<BR>
doing its job.  And the local laws back where the kid came from may<BR>
disagree strongly.<BR>
<BR>
>> Moral reformers might visit from<BR>
>> offworld with various schemes to put an end to what they consider a sick<BR>
>> and abominable way of life.<BR>
><BR>
>And having their own words thrown back at them. For example, Christ<BR>
>taught that we should be humble, and should serve others. That's a<BR>
>*great* argument for a slave to throw at the reformer. :-)<BR>
<BR>
	Good suggestion.  Not sure I want to put this scene into a role-playing<BR>
situation though.  Throwing sex AND religion into a game and expecting<BR>
nobody to get upset might be asking too much.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>  A "deprogrammer" sent to "rescue" the teenaged<BR>
>> grandchild who fled with a casual lover to the planet a year ago and has<BR>
>> not been heard from since.<BR>
><BR>
>See my comments about "deprogramming". And I can *gaurantee* that under<BR>
>local law the deprogrammers are going to have to be *very* careful to<BR>
>avoid charges of kidnapping and brainwashing. <BR>
<BR>
	Who said they're not kidnapping and brainwashing?  :-><BR>
<BR>
	The scenario that I had uppermost in mind was the players being hired to<BR>
assist in rescuing a kidnapped child.  Standard gig for most veteran<BR>
gamers.  Their patron is the experienced deprogrammer of course.  He is a<BR>
zealot willing to stop at nothing of course.  The patron and players break<BR>
into some setting that makes it incredibly obvious the kid has been getting<BR>
used as the sub in some really heavy scenes.  The kid pleas not to be<BR>
taken, the patron proceeds with plans to whisk kid to a safe house.  Then<BR>
the deprogramming/brainwashing starts.  At what point (if ever) do the<BR>
players' sympathies shift?  What actions do they take?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> I could go on and on.  This planet sounds like<BR>
>> a place for multiple, repeat adventures.  I'd love to see the players faces<BR>
>> each time they realize they have to go back there.  Should probably play<BR>
>> that Korn album in the background.  "Freak On A Leash" and all that, forgot<BR>
<BR>
>> the album title.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, I have to note that *your* take on things is more suited to a<BR>
>place that started as a "resort" catering to the kinky than the sort of<BR>
>place BDSMers would found. As I note in many places above, most of the<BR>
>abuses you want are stuff that the BDSM community is already concerned<BR>
>about avoiding. I suspect that your knowledge of such things is<BR>
>confined to the standard stereotypes and cheap porn. <BR>
<BR>
	:-> You're right that I am not attempting to write up a utopian vision of<BR>
the BDSM lifestyle.  And I think for such a community to be dysfunctional,<BR>
it's plausible that not many things have to vary from the ideal.  Even<BR>
truly good and clever people have a unique challenge in creating such a<BR>
world for the first time.  They would be experimenting on a grand scale.<BR>
Honest differences over methods would emerge, and compromises might be less<BR>
than perfect.  And I expect the founders to have a fair share of not so<BR>
good and/or not so clever people.  Maybe even some bad but very clever<BR>
people.  For analogies, look to two sets of founders.  The USA was<BR>
supposedly founded on the principles of individual freedom and liberty.<BR>
Yet, how long was it before slavery was even officially illegal?  The<BR>
Soviet Union was supposedly founded on the idea of equally and fairly<BR>
sharing economic burdens and benefits among everyone.  Yet Stalin quickly<BR>
converted the government and economy into his own personal possessions.<BR>
Just two examples of how utopias don't usually turn out as intended.  In<BR>
other words, I am cynical enough to think that the BDSM colonists would<BR>
fail, partly because they're human and partly because they have a tougher<BR>
set of challenges than your usual colonists in a new land.  But I am not<BR>
trying to describe a parody of what the founders would intend.  In fact, I<BR>
am portraying a place that is functioning well enough a few generations<BR>
later that it's prospering and growing.  But with problems.  Problems that<BR>
threaten to worsen.<BR>
<BR>
	I'm no expert, and I am not into B, D, S, or M personally.  I have had a<BR>
surprising number of friends who are pretty open about it and discussed it<BR>
a lot.  I've read a lot of stuff, incidental to my reading about my own<BR>
personal kinks.  Because of said personal kinks and because of (hopefully)<BR>
wide reading, I like to think I'm more open minded about kinkiness in<BR>
general.  Assuming they're sane, I condone just about anything two<BR>
consenting adults do to each other in private.  If there were a magic pill<BR>
that would "cure" the "sickness" of various kinks, including BDSM kinks,<BR>
would I take it?  Would you?  Should people be required by law to take it?<BR>
Should doctors be prohibited from prescribing it except in unusual<BR>
circumstances?  You and I won't agree 100% on these views, but we're<BR>
probably pretty damned close.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	It's problematical whether MTU contains a BDSM planet that is less<BR>
realistic than the one in YTU.  You seem to feel my vision is handicapped<BR>
by some prejudice and ignorance, I seem to feel your vision is too utopian.<BR>
 I enjoy the dialogue about it, to the extent we can provide each other<BR>
with good ideas for Traveller adventuring.  I don't think either of us is<BR>
about to start a debate about which vision is more "valid".  It's just a<BR>
game, I'm sure you agree.  :-><BR>
<BR>
>While I could see doing a writeup, I'm certain that there's no way Marc<BR>
>could see his way clear to make it "approved for use with Traveller".<BR>
>If I did it, I might submit it to him on the basis of "I know it can't<BR>
>even pretend to be official, but I'd like to avoid having anything<BR>
>*other* than the culture be contrary to the rules"<BR>
<BR>
	Yep.  I'm not even dreaming of asking Marc to let this be canon.  I meant<BR>
published in the sense that TML members and a few other dedicated fans<BR>
would be reading about it.<BR>
<BR>
	I'm leaning towards making this planet balkanized, with several different<BR>
countries established for the same general purpose, but each country having<BR>
a set of founders with different views on how to do things.  I welcome<BR>
specific suggestions and comments about this.<BR>
<BR>
>There's actually a contemporary "culture" that could easily evolve into<BR>
>what you want, given the right stimulus. The stereotypical "nutcase<BR>
>survivalist".<BR>
<BR>
	Hey, that might be a good scenario for explaining some high tech, low pop<BR>
world with an X or D starport.  And they might be spread out very thin and<BR>
wide because (a) they think its safer that way and/or (b) there are quite a<BR>
few different cults that don't get along well with each other and need the<BR>
space between them.<BR>
<BR>
	The players are hired to go to a remote planet to find Tea Kaczynski,<BR>
long-lost granddaughter of a rich industrialist, so that she can be present<BR>
at the reading of the will.  But the locals tend to live in camouflaged<BR>
bunkers, carry serious weaponry, and be deeply suspicious of anyone who<BR>
asks questions.  There is no post office, phone number listings, government<BR>
census, or other such aid for locating individuals.<BR>
<BR>
	After completing this contract, the lawyers who hired them now have a job<BR>
that one of their big clients needs done.  Someone has to get mineral<BR>
rights sold or leased to the client from a group on that planet.  As well<BR>
as somehow getting permission to build orbital and dirtside facilities the<BR>
client has in mind.  They've already lost the agents they originally sent<BR>
to the planet, but hope the players can use their local expertise to<BR>
facilitate the situation.  By any means necessary.  The players will be<BR>
paid extremely well.  The residents of the planet don't have a legal<BR>
system, so it's tough to lease property rights in a way that will be<BR>
universally respected.  The residents are also openly hostile to the idea<BR>
of corporate development.  The INS likes that this planet has provided a<BR>
convenient outlet for militant loners to live without bothering people and<BR>
commerce anywhere else.  At the same time, the IN in general as well as the<BR>
INS really dislikes people like this and mistrusts them.  They definitely<BR>
think *somebody* should be keeping extremely close tabs on these nuts.  The<BR>
Imperial Marines are rather proud of the fact that this planet provides<BR>
some of the best quality recruits anywhere, important NCOs in many elite<BR>
units come from there.  The planet has some influential people at the<BR>
Duke's court who are strong sympathizers and personal friends.  Nobles who<BR>
enjoy hunting wildlife often visit hosts on the planet for their hunting<BR>
vacations.<BR>
<BR>
	Both those scenarios are cliched, simple, and have high potential to be<BR>
mostly combat adventures.  Depends on the players, though, and the referee.<BR>
 I tried to provide room for things to develop in different ways.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2178<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2179<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re:OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
The Piranha Brothers<BR>
Re: Songs<BR>
RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Another Landgrab question<BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
OT: Mission to Mars<BR>
RE: songs<BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
J6 communications nets <BR>
Re Epic Poems.<BR>
Re:Shipping Laundry<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
Re: Me silly - more info needed<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:30:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re:OT:  Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, William Prankard wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> X.T.E.K.: eXperimental Technician Engineered for Killing<BR>
> <BR>
> <FNORD><BR>
> They know far too much.  Send in the Penguins, Swallows and EMPAWS<BR>
> (Elephant Mounted...you know.)<BR>
> </FNORD><BR>
<BR>
Yep, that's what I thought when I saw:<BR>
<BR>
K.E.N.: Killing and Exploration Neohuman<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:08:24 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: The Piranha Brothers<BR>
<BR>
>"Yeah, it's true, Dinsdale, he did nail me 'ead t' th' floor,<BR>
>but, I deserved it, an' all."<BR>
<BR>
	"He did'n want to do it, but I made 'im, really.  I broke the unwritten<BR>
code, y'see."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:11:57 -0600<BR>
From: meow@advancenet.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Songs<BR>
<BR>
For some true atrocities try these out<BR>
Dance the Time Warp from Rocky Horror Picture Show to <BR>
Greensleeves.<BR>
Amazing Grace to Gilligans Island<BR>
any of Emily Dickinsons Poetry sang to Yellow Rose of Texas<BR>
Heinleins Green Hills of Earth scans to Gilligans Island, although<BR>
this might get you hung up by your thumbs at some cons.<BR>
<BR>
on a serious note, try singing Amazing Grace to the Animals <BR>
version of House of the Rising Sun<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:11:42 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
<BR>
> >"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Resteraunt<BR>
> >excepting Alice"<BR>
<BR>
> Dammnit! No I gotta go find that CD!<BR>
<BR>
Here's the guitar tab and complete lyrics.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry about the bandwidth, people, but I sort of assumed a number of people<BR>
would like to see it.<BR>
<BR>
From: mzraly@cs.umb.edu (Michael S. Zraly)<BR>
<BR>
			Alice's Restaurant<BR>
			------------------<BR>
words & music by			 transcribed by<BR>
  Arlo Guthrie			  Russ Shipton<BR>
						w/alterations by<BR>
						   Mike Zraly<BR>
<BR>
[ This originally appeared in Shipton's book "Blues & Ragtime ]<BR>
[ Guitar" -- sorry, I don't know the publisher's name; I sold ]<BR>
[ the book a few years ago.				      ]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
This progression gets repeated throughout the song/monologue;<BR>
the only exception is the "impending doom" sound effect (I for-<BR>
get where in the song this occurs) produced by strumming the<BR>
following chords in sequence:<BR>
<BR>
	     Ebo7       F#o7       Ao7       Co7<BR>
<BR>
	 E |---2----------5---------8--------11--|<BR>
	 B |---1----------4---------7--------10--|<BR>
	 G |---2----------5---------8--------11--|<BR>
	 D |---1----------4---------7--------10--|<BR>
	 A |-------------------------------------|<BR>
	 E |-------------------------------------|<BR>
<BR>
and the ending strums, which are C C F F C G C chords in usual<BR>
positions.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Here is the main vamp, with lyrics shown as they are sung in the<BR>
chorus.  The rest of the lyrics foolow the tablature.<BR>
<BR>
           G     Am    Bm      C             Cm  C<BR>
<BR>
 E |-------------------------|--0-----------------0-------|<BR>
 B |--------0-----1-----3----|---------1------4-----------|<BR>
 G |-------------------------|--------------------------0-|<BR>
 D |-------------------------|---------2-------------2----|<BR>
 A |--------------0-----2----|--3-------------3-----------|<BR>
 E |--------3----------------|----------------------------|<BR>
                               You    can    get    an -y<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     A7                              D7             G<BR>
<BR>
 E |-----------5-------3-----------|-----0----------------0--------|<BR>
 B |-----------------------5-------|--3---------------0------------|<BR>
 G |-------------------------------|--------------0----------------|<BR>
 D |--------------------------2----|----------4--------------0-----|<BR>
 A |---0-------0-------0-----------|--5----------------------------|<BR>
 E |-------------------------------|------------------3------------|<BR>
     thing    you    want       at   Al -i- ce's    Rest    -a-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     C        G     Am    Bm      C             Cm  C<BR>
<BR>
 E |----------------------------|--0-----------------0-------|<BR>
 B |---1-------0-----1-----3----|---------1------4-----------|<BR>
 G |----------------------------|--------------------------0-|<BR>
 D |----------------------------|---------2-------------2----|<BR>
 A |---3-------------0-----2----|--3-------------3-----------|<BR>
 E |-----------3----------------|----------------------------|<BR>
     raunt                        You    can    get    an -y<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     A7                              D7          D7/A<BR>
<BR>
 E |-----------5-------3-----------|-------------------0----------|<BR>
 B |-----------------------5-------|--3-----3------3--------------|<BR>
 G |-------------------------------|-----------5------------------|<BR>
 D |--------------------------2----|--------4---------------4-----|<BR>
 A |---0-------0-------0-----------|--5---------------------------|<BR>
 E |-------------------------------|---------------5--------------|<BR>
     thing    you    want                  at     Al  -i- ce's<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     G       Am     Bbm      Bm      C                Cm C<BR>
<BR>
 E |-------------------------------|---0------------------0---------|<BR>
 B |---0------1-------2-------3----|-----------1-------4------------|<BR>
 G |-------------------------------|------------------------------0-|<BR>
 D |-------------------------------|-----------2--------------2-----|<BR>
 A |----------0-------1-------2----|---3---------------3------------|<BR>
 E |---3---------------------------|--------------------------------|<BR>
     Rest    -a-    raunt            Walk    right    in    it's a-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
                                     F<BR>
<BR>
 E |---0-------0-------0---3-------|----------------------------------|<BR>
 B |-------------------------------|-----------0-------1---3----------|<BR>
 G |--------0------0---------------|---2---------------------------2--|<BR>
 D |-----------2--------------2----|-----------3---------------3------|<BR>
 A |---3---------------3-----------|----------------------------------|<BR>
 E |-------------------------------|---1---------------1--------------|<BR>
     round    the    back            Just    half a  mile    from the<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     D7                                C             Cm  C<BR>
<BR>
 E |---------------------------------|--0-----------------0-------|<BR>
 B |---1----3-----------1----3-------|---------1------4-----------|<BR>
 G |----------------2--------------2-|--------------------------0-|<BR>
 D |------------0---------------0----|---------2-------------2----|<BR>
 A |---------------------------------|--3-------------3-----------|<BR>
 E |---2----------------2------------|----------------------------|<BR>
     rail-    road    track            You    can    get    an -y<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     A7                              D7             D7/A<BR>
<BR>
 E |-----------5-------3-----------|----------------------0--------|<BR>
 B |-----------------------5-------|--3-------3-------3------------|<BR>
 G |-------------------------------|--------------5----------------|<BR>
 D |--------------------------2----|----------4--------------4-----|<BR>
 A |---0-------0-------0-----------|--5----------------------------|<BR>
 E |-------------------------------|------------------5------------|<BR>
     thing    you    want       at   Al -i- ce's    Rest    -a-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     G        G     Am    Bm<BR>
<BR>
 E |----------------------------|<BR>
 B |---0-------0-----1-----3----|<BR>
 G |----------------------------|<BR>
 D |----------------------------|<BR>
 A |-----------------0-----2----|<BR>
 E |---3-------3----------------|<BR>
     raunt<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Now for the full lyrics, FTP'd from cs.uwp.edu:<BR>
<BR>
		Alice's Restaurant<BR>
				by Arlo Guthrie<BR>
<BR>
This song is called Alice's Restaurant and it's about Alice, and the<BR>
restaurant but Alices Restaurant is not the name of the restaurant,<BR>
it's the name of the song, and that's why I called this song Alice's<BR>
Restaurant.<BR>
<BR>
	You can get anything you want at Alices Restaurant.<BR>
	You can get anything you want at Alices Restaurant.<BR>
	Walk right in it's around the back.<BR>
	Just a half a mile from the railroad track.<BR>
	You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant.<BR>
<BR>
Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago it's on two years ago on<BR>
Thanksgiving when my friend and I went up to visit Alice at the<BR>
restaurant but Alice doesn't live in the restaurant, she lives in the<BR>
church nearby the restaurant, in the bell-tower, with her husband Ray<BR>
and Fasha the dog. And livin' in the bell tower since they took out<BR>
all the pews, they got a lot a room downstairs where the pews used to<BR>
be in and havin all that room, seen as they took out all the pews,they<BR>
decided that they didn't have to take out their garbage for a long<BR>
time.<BR>
	We got up there found all the garbage, and we figured it'd be<BR>
a friendly gesture for us to take the garbage down to the city dump.<BR>
	So we took the half a ton of garbage and put it in the back of<BR>
a red VW microbus, took shovel's and rakes and implements of<BR>
destruction and headed on toward the city dump. Well we got there and<BR>
there was a big sign and a chain across saying closed on thanksgiving.<BR>
We'd never heard of a dump closed on thanksgiving before, and with<BR>
tears in our eyes we drove off into the sunset looking for another<BR>
place to put the garbage.<BR>
	We didn't find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the<BR>
side of the side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the<BR>
bottom of the cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided<BR>
one big pile is better than two little piles, and rather than bring<BR>
that one up we decided to throw our's down.<BR>
	That's what we did, and drove back to the church, had a<BR>
thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat, went to sleep and didn't<BR>
get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from officer<BR>
Obie.  Said "Kid, we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a<BR>
half a ton of garbage, and just wanted to know if you had any<BR>
information bout it". I said "Yes Sir Officer Obie, I cannot tell a<BR>
lie, I put that envelope under that garbage."<BR>
	After speaking to Obie for about fourty-five minutes on the<BR>
telephone we finally came to the truth of the matter and said that we<BR>
had to go down and pick up the garbage, and also had to go down and<BR>
speak to him at the police officer's station, so we got in the red VW<BR>
microbus with the shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and<BR>
headed on to the police officer's station.<BR>
	Now friends,there was only one or two things Obie could a done<BR>
at the police station and the first was he could have given us a medal<BR>
for being so brave and honest on the telephone, which wasn't very<BR>
likely,and we didn't expect it , and the other thing was he could have<BR>
bawled us out and told us never to be see driving garbage about the<BR>
vicinity again, which is what we expected, but when we got to the<BR>
police officer's station there was a third possibility that we hadn't<BR>
counted upon, and we was both imediately arrested, handcuffed, and I<BR>
said "Obie, I don't think I can pick up the garbage with these<BR>
handcuff on.". He said "Shutup kid. Get in the back of the patrol<BR>
car".<BR>
	And that's what we did, sat in the back of the patrol car and<BR>
drove to the quote 'Scene of the crime' unquote. I want tell you about<BR>
the town of StockBridge Massachusets where this is all happen here,<BR>
they got three stop signs,two police officers, and one police car, but<BR>
when we got to the 'Scene of the crime' there was five police officers<BR>
and three police cars , being the biggest crime of the last fifty<BR>
years, and everybody wanted to get in the newspaper story about it.<BR>
And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment they had hanging<BR>
around the police officer's station.They was taking plastic tyre<BR>
track, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven<BR>
eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a<BR>
paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be<BR>
used in evidence against us .  They took picture's of the approach,<BR>
the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not<BR>
to mention the aerial photography.<BR>
<BR>
After the ordeal, we went back to the jail, Obie said he was going to<BR>
put us in the cell said "Kid,I'm going to put you in the cell, I want<BR>
your wallet and your belt."  I said "Obie, I can understand you<BR>
wanting my wallet so I don't have any money to spend in the cell , but<BR>
why do you want my belt?"  and he said "Kid,we don't want any<BR>
hangings" I said "Obie , did you think I was goingto hang myself for<BR>
littering" Obie said he was making sure, and friends Obie was, cause<BR>
he took out the toilet seat so I couldn't hit myself over the head and<BR>
drown, and he took out the toilet paper so I couldn't bend the bars<BR>
throw out the roll of toilet paper out the window, slide down the roll<BR>
and have an escape.Obie was making sure, and it was about four or five<BR>
hours later that Alice, (remember Alice? This is a song about Alice),<BR>
Alice came by and with a few nasty words to Obie on the said , bailed<BR>
us out of jail,and we went back to the church, had a another<BR>
thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat, and didn't get up until the<BR>
next morning, when we all had to go to court.<BR>
	We walked in, sat down, Obie came in with the twenty seven<BR>
eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a<BR>
paragraph on the back of each one, sat down.  Man came in said all<BR>
rise. We stood up, and Obie stood up with the twenty seven<BR>
eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures and the judge walked in sat down<BR>
with the seeing eye dog,and he sat down, we sat down. Obie looked at<BR>
the seeing eye dog, and then at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour<BR>
glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back<BR>
of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.And then at twenty seven<BR>
eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a<BR>
paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry, cause Obie had<BR>
cometo the realisation that this was a typical case of American blind<BR>
justice,and there wasn't nothing he could do about it, and the judge<BR>
wasn't going to look at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy<BR>
photographs with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of<BR>
each on explaining what each one was to be used in evidence against<BR>
us.  And we was fined $50 and had to pick up the garbage in the snow,<BR>
but thats not what I came to tell you about.<BR>
<BR>
	Came to talk about the draft.<BR>
<BR>
We got a building down New York City,it's called Whitehall street Were<BR>
you get injected, inspected, detected infected negleced and selected.<BR>
I went down and got my physical examination one day, and I walked in<BR>
sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so I looked and felt my<BR>
best when I went in that morning.  Cause I wanted to look like the all<BR>
American kid from New York City, man I to feel like the , I wanted to<BR>
_be_ the all American kid from New York, and I walked in and I was<BR>
hungdown brungdown hungup and all kinds o' mean nasty ugly things.<BR>
And I waked in and sat down and they gave me a pice of paper said<BR>
"Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604"<BR>
	I went up there said "Shrink, I want to kill, I wanna I wanna<BR>
kill.Kill. I wanna I wanna to see blood and gore and guts and veins in<BR>
my teeth.Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, kill,KILL,KILL."  and I<BR>
started jumpin up and down yelling KILL KILL, and he started jumpin up<BR>
and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling "KILL<BR>
KILL".And the sargent came over pinned a medal on me, sent me down the<BR>
hall, said "you're our boy".<BR>
<BR>
	Didn't feel too good about it.<BR>
<BR>
Proceded on down the hall gettin all sorts of injections, inspections,<BR>
detections, neglections and all kinds of stuff that they was doin' to<BR>
me at the thing there, and I was there two hours, three hours, four<BR>
hours I was there for a long time going through all kind's of mean<BR>
nasty ugly things and I was just having a tough time there and they<BR>
was inspecting injecting every single part of me, and they was leaving<BR>
no part untouched.  Proceded through.  And when I finally came to the<BR>
see the last man,I walked in,walked in sat down after a whole big<BR>
thing there, I walked up and said 'what do you want' "Kid, we ony got<BR>
one question. Have you ever been arrested?"<BR>
	And I proceeded to tell him the story of Alices Restaurant<BR>
Massacre,with full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like<BR>
that and suddenly he stoped me right there and said "Kid,did you ever<BR>
go to court?".<BR>
<BR>
	I proceeded to tell him the storyof the twentyseven<BR>
eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and<BR>
the paragraph on the back of each one, and he stoped me right there<BR>
and said "Kid, I want you to go and sit down on that bench that says<BR>
group W .... NOW kid!!".<BR>
<BR>
And I walked over to the bench there ,and theres group W, which is<BR>
where they put you if you may not be _moral_ enough to join the army<BR>
after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean<BR>
nasty ugly looking people on the bench there.Mother Rapers. Father<BR>
Stabbers. Father Rapers!  Father Rapers sitting right there on the<BR>
bench next to me!  And they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible<BR>
crime-type guys sitting bench next to me. And the meanest nastyest<BR>
uglyest one, the meanest father raper of them all, was coming over to<BR>
me and he was mean 'n' nasty 'n' ugly 'n' horrible and all kind of<BR>
things and he sat down next to me and said "Kid, what ya get?".  I<BR>
said "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the<BR>
garbage.".  He said "What were you arrested for?".  and I said<BR>
"Littering".  And they all moved away from me on the bench there,and a<BR>
hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I said "And<BR>
creating a nusance.".  They all came back, shook my hand, and we had a<BR>
great time on the bench, talkin about crime,mother stabbing, father<BR>
raping all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the<BR>
bench.And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds<BR>
of things, until the sargent came over, had some paper in his hand<BR>
said.<BR>
<BR>
	"Kids,this-piece-of-paper's-got-47-words-37-sentences-58-lines<BR>
we-wanna-know-details-of-the-crime-time-of-the-crime-all-the-things<BR>
you-gotta-say-things-about-the-crime-arresting-officer's-name-all-the<BR>
things-you-gotta-say", and talked for fourty-five minutes and nobody<BR>
understood a word that he said, but we had fun filling out the form<BR>
and playing with the pencils on the bench there, and I filled out the<BR>
massacre with the four part harmony, wrote it down there, just like it<BR>
was, and I put down the pencil,and turned over the piece of paper, and<BR>
there there on the other side.<BR>
In the middle of the other side.<BR>
Away from everything else on the other side.<BR>
In parentheses.<BR>
Capital letters.<BR>
Quotated.<BR>
Read the following words :<BR>
   "Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	I went over to the the sargent said "Sargent,you got a lot a<BR>
damn gall to ask me if I've rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean I'm<BR>
just sittin here, sittin on the group W bench cause you want to know<BR>
if I'm _moral_ enough join the army to burn women kids houses and<BR>
villages after bein a litterbug.".  He looked at me said "Kid,we don't<BR>
like your kind , and we're gonna send you fingerprints off to<BR>
Washington.".<BR>
	And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little<BR>
folder, is a study in black and white of my fingerprints.  And the<BR>
only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know<BR>
somebody in a similar situation, or _you_ may be in a similar<BR>
situation,and if your in a situation like that there's only one thing<BR>
you can do and that's walk into the shrink whereever you are ,just<BR>
walk in say "Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice's<BR>
restaurant.".  And walk out.  You know,if one person, just one person<BR>
does it they may think he's really sick and won't take him.  And if<BR>
two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both<BR>
faggots and they won't take either of them.  And three people , three<BR>
, can you imagine, three people walking in sing a bar of Alice's<BR>
Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization.  And<BR>
can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking<BR>
in sing a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out.  And friends they<BR>
may thinks it's a movement.<BR>
<BR>
	And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre<BR>
Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it<BR>
come's around on the guitar.<BR>
<BR>
	With feeling.<BR>
	So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and<BR>
sing it when it does.  Here it comes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
		You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant.<BR>
		You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant.<BR>
		Walk right in it's around the back,<BR>
		Just a half a mile from the railroad track,<BR>
		You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant.<BR>
<BR>
	That was horrible.  If you want to end war and stuff you got<BR>
to sing loud.<BR>
<BR>
	I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I<BR>
could sing it for another twenty five minutes.  I'm not proud...<BR>
	... or tired.<BR>
<BR>
	So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part<BR>
harmony and feeling.<BR>
<BR>
We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing.<BR>
<BR>
	All right now.<BR>
		You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant<BR>
			"excepting Alice"<BR>
		You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant<BR>
		Walk right in it's around the back,<BR>
		Just a half a mile from the railroad track,<BR>
		You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant<BR>
		At Alice's Restaurant.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:23:15 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Another Landgrab question<BR>
<BR>
Is 876-574/Five Sisters in any other publication besides BtC? I have most of <BR>
the LBB's and don't remember seeing it in there. I don't have any of the MT <BR>
GDW books.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:24:13 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
> From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
> Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Hmmm, but consider the price:<BR>
>   They would need a couple of ships to transport data that is transported<BR>
> almost for free on every sheduled XBOAT. Where would they get their profit<BR>
> margin?<BR>
<BR>
Volker, would you like to make a couple of small bets ?<BR>
<BR>
Basically, you predict a dozen companies that will have stock prices rise by<BR>
10% in by 30 June 2000. I'll do the same, except that I'll place my bets in<BR>
2 months time.<BR>
<BR>
Then I'll discount my winnings by 10%, to reflect the megacredit or so it<BR>
cost to get that Core Business News flown out by Jump-6 courier.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and sports gambling can be made, well, much less sporting by as well, by<BR>
having much more advanced information than the other guys.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:30:11 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: OT: Mission to Mars<BR>
<BR>
It's our here in the US...It's pretty good...I recommend it.<BR>
<BR>
S<BR>
P<BR>
O<BR>
I<BR>
L<BR>
E<BR>
R<BR>
<BR>
S<BR>
P<BR>
A<BR>
C<BR>
E<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I think it could have been better. It reminded me a lot of 2001. But it was <BR>
work the % dollars I paid. I loved the micro meteor scene. I think that would <BR>
be great in a Traveller Adventure...Maybe with a TL 15 ship but certainly <BR>
sometime before that.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:36:35 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: songs<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Jeopardy ("Our game's in jeopardy," when shaking my head in <BR>
>stunned disbelief at some of the flamewars about particularly<BR>
>silly and irrelevant parts of "Canon.").<BR>
<BR>
Jeopardy !  <BR>
When the jump drive's gone and you can't go on <BR>
It's Jeopardy ! <BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:45:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>
> Volker, would you like to make a couple of small bets ?<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Or, as a simpler variant on the above, there are 337 J-5 or J-6 routes in<BR>
the imperium with BTN 11+ (100 GCr+/year).  Something tells me an extra week<BR>
for speculative trade across such a route would be important..<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:59:03 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: J6 communications nets <BR>
<BR>
I am reminded of the post yesterday about the distribution of population<BR>
within the 3I, in which someone pointed out that almost all of the<BR>
population lives on a few high-pop planets. It seems to me that this will<BR>
drive the high-jump communications channels also. After all, people, either<BR>
directly or indirectly, end up paying for the information. Where are the<BR>
people who are your potential source of revenue? On the high-pop planets.<BR>
<BR>
Based upon this, I see two needs for high-jump communications. One for the<BR>
government and military, and the other for commercial use. The government<BR>
and military channels must be able to carry communications to and from<BR>
strategically important places, which may or may not be the same as the<BR>
high-pop centers, while the commercial network will supply rapid<BR>
communication between high-pop centers only, with slower channels to other<BR>
destinations.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:51:38 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Epic Poems.<BR>
<BR>
>>"NO!!!!!!<BR>
>>Not the epic poem, please!"<BR>
><BR>
>"We Died".<BR>
<BR>
No! No! No! That's not Epic!<BR>
<BR>
Try more like:<BR>
<BR>
"We suffered on for days and days<BR>
We Suffered of in many ways<BR>
We suffered on - hope the colonel pays...<BR>
We suffered through the bleak of light<BR>
and right on through the morning light.<BR>
We all survived this horrid sight<BR>
And then we died!"<BR>
<BR>
Or in short<BR>
"We suffered and then died"<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:59:06 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re:Shipping Laundry<BR>
<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 3/24/00 1:42 AM, Leonard Erickson<BR>
>shadow@krypton.rain.com issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
>> Heck, keep in mind things like my favorite "fun fact" about California<BR>
>> during the Gold Rush. They were shipping *laundry* to *Hawaii* to get<BR>
>> done. By *sailing ship*.<BR>
><BR>
>You're not the type to jest like this Leonard, and AFAIK rarely wrong. But I<BR>
>am quite shocked, where did you hear this? How much did it cost? This seems<BR>
>*very* odd.<BR>
<BR>
More by early steam & sail ships, but yes, the early<BR>
settlers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H 49'ers did ship laundry. Then they just begam<BR>
importing chinamen to do the laundry locally. And the tailoring.<BR>
<BR>
Consider the setup for the short-lived laundry shipping industry.<BR>
1) There were almost no women with them<BR>
2) There were almost no suppliers of "Normal Clothing"<BR>
3) Very few individuals had the skills to do tailoring nor other facets<BR>
laudries did at the time<BR>
4) Many clothes needed repairs as well as laundering.<BR>
5) There was no overland shipping of note<BR>
<BR>
It didn't last long, but it did happen.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:50:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 3/24/00 1:42 AM, Leonard Erickson<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
>> Heck, keep in mind things like my favorite "fun fact" about California<BR>
>> during the Gold Rush. They were shipping *laundry* to *Hawaii* to get<BR>
>> done. By *sailing ship*.<BR>
><BR>
> You're not the type to jest like this Leonard, and AFAIK rarely wrong. But I<BR>
> am quite shocked, where did you hear this? How much did it cost? This seems<BR>
> *very* odd.<BR>
<BR>
I first encountered it in one of Heinlein's stories (I think it was<BR>
"The Rolling Stones") and I think I can across a real reference later.<BR>
<BR>
As for cost? Well, all I can say is "a lot". But if you've every seen<BR>
anything that gives prices during the Gold Rush, keep in mind that at<BR>
that time $10 a *month* was ok pay... So the prices that look "a bit<BR>
inflated" to *us* are actual *horrendously* expensive. <BR>
<BR>
I wish I recalled some prices from history books or documentaries. I<BR>
have this vague image of "Eggs $1" but I can't swear that it's correct.<BR>
<BR>
But this *is* one of the classic examples of extreme inflation caused<BR>
by lots of "money" (gold) combined with a scarcity of goods/services. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:43:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: bullets tend to travel parallel to walls<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 5:22 -0500 24/3/00, Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>> > Is copyright 70 years in England ?<BR>
>> > That would put all this stuff in the public domain.<BR>
>><BR>
>>As far as I understand it last for 50 years after the death of the copyright<BR>
>>holder.  Don't know how that holds if the copyright is held by a <BR>
>>corporation or<BR>
>>trust.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Anyone know any better, please enlighten us. ;)<BR>
><BR>
> If the copyright is held by a corporate body then I suspect that it <BR>
> continues until such a time as they decide to allow <BR>
> copying/distribution of the material. Remember that large amounts of <BR>
> money have been paid recently for archives of newspapers etc.<BR>
<BR>
No, there *is* a fixed term. for such copyrights. But it's something<BR>
like 70 years, max.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:02:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Me silly - more info needed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Cool scene - like the gay squirrels - 'on no after you', 'please I insist'<BR>
> etc.<BR>
<BR>
Those are "Mac and Tosh" (no, *really*!) and they are gophers in some<BR>
cartoons and chipmunks in the others. In either case, they aren't<BR>
squirrels (no long fluffy tails). They were Warner Brothers answer to<BR>
Disney's Chip 'n' Dale (another *bad* pun).<BR>
<BR>
And they aren't necessarily gay. Back then, you could find "fussy old<BR>
men" who acted *exactly* that polite without them being sexually<BR>
involved. <BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Just *imagine* the sort of nonsense scholars would come up with<BR>
to explain various "funny animal cartoons" unearthed from a well<BR>
preserved collection of DVDs...<BR>
<BR>
Say the "Singing frog" cartoon. Or one of the Marvin the Martian cartoons.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2179<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2180</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/24/00 6:12:42 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Friday, March 24 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2180<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
Re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
RE: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
I love this list<BR>
Re: Officers with their naught poking bits<BR>
Re: Evil, Mind-Raping Zhodani (Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional c ultures)<BR>
Re: Songs<BR>
Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
Re: SongsFrom the keyboard of LKW:<BR>
Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Trader's Map of the Imperium<BR>
Re: J6 communications nets<BR>
Trade Routes in District 268 and Five Sisters Subsector<BR>
More Cool Maps<BR>
WTN<BR>
Re: WTN<BR>
Re: WTN<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:39:16 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>
> http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-cyborger.html<BR>
<BR>
According to this cute little tool, I am a Synthetic Positronic Android<BR>
Calibrated for Exploration. Sounds like IISS material to me :-)<BR>
<BR>
Sadly enough, the program won't let me enter more than seven letters, so<BR>
I can only use one of the two variants of my nickname.<BR>
<BR>
And I can't enter Strephon either :-(<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:19:07 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:25:00 -0800<BR>
>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>> I must confess that though I mentioned the<BR>
>> idea I'm in the rather dificult position of working<BR>
>> from less than the full set of materials for TFT.<BR>
>> Anybody know where I could get the advanced books<BR>
>> cheep?<BR>
><BR>
>Good Bloody Luck.<BR>
><BR>
>Wishing I had kept a former girl friends copies longer....<BR>
><BR>
>And a noght at Kinko's<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At the time they were available I couldn't quite justify buying<BR>
the advanced materials. Now I'm kicking myself for my<BR>
short-sightedness.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:50:57 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:55:15 -0900<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: TFT Traveller<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Pshaw! Obvious y'all never really read ALL of ITL. You can "Forget" a<BR>
>talent by non-use. Requires a few rolls, but it CAN be done. And Talents<BR>
>normally take multiple slots. And you only get slots totalling your IQ.<BR>
<BR>
Actually I must confess to not reading any of ITL. In the days when it was<BR>
readily available I had just moved on from FRPG to SFRPG. I have the basic<BR>
Melee and<BR>
Wizard games but not the other books. I kick myself now for not buying the<BR>
rest of the TFT stuff but I was arraogant in my earlier days and didn't<BR>
realize<BR>
that I might need the full rule system.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I've always felt that TFT NEEDED an "Education" stat: IQ would then<BR>
>determine what complexity you can learn, while Ed would set how many slots<BR>
>you got.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I can see this working for TFT but since it's a traveller port to TFT ala GT<BR>
adding new stats would be a no no.<BR>
<BR>
I'm much more interested in things like the megahex range for PGMP's and<BR>
which Wizard spells to allow as psionic powers.<BR>
<BR>
And as an aside, the usual rejoinder to pish is tosh, sometimes posh, but<BR>
almost<BR>
never pshaw :)<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:26:53 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:52:18 +0000<BR>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>Subject: re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>BITS is not importing them.<BR>
><BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
After posting to the discusion at rpgnet and the TML it dawned<BR>
on me that I should probably have let the Brits sort it out.<BR>
I appologize if I've caused any problems by my ill advised<BR>
distribution of the bits email adress in this regard. (though I<BR>
honestly did think if anybody knew you would.)<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:20:16 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:54:23 EST<BR>
>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>It evidently predates radio/popular songs: Mark Twain once wrote an essay<BR>
>about a particularly annoying poem about a bus conductor and transit<BR>
tickets<BR>
>(repeating the refrain: "punch in the presence of the pass-en-ger") that he<BR>
>could not drive out of his mind. He helpfully provided the entire text, and<BR>
>after reading the essay, I had to play _Hooked on a feeling_ to get rid of<BR>
>it.<BR>
<BR>
Try Iron Man by Black Sabbath guarenteed to drive out any other<BR>
melody/lyric from consciousness. (at which point you have to deal with<BR>
having Iron Man stuck in your head but....)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The more things change, the more they stay the same...<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:49:00 -0000<BR>
From: "Alistair J. R. Young" <avatar@arkane.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Street Fighting Tactics<BR>
<BR>
> > It was a shell around an actual dreadnought. There's quite a nice<BR>
> > description of what happens when they fire the main drive while still<BR>
> > embedded in the city.<BR>
><BR>
> > Alistair<BR>
> > (Anyone for the 'Skyscraper' class dreadnought? Just for those people<BR>
who<BR>
> > want to make a spectacularly *non*-sneaky getaway.)<BR>
><BR>
> With a *big* honking Heplar or fusion rocket drive. Just the thing to<BR>
> eliminate all those inconvenient witnesses... :-)<BR>
<BR>
At this point, the little voice in the back of my head is just screaming,<BR>
"Ground-launched Orion! Ground-launched Orion!".<BR>
<BR>
Alistair<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:00:27 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:31 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"I was going to write myself in, but I was afraid I'd get shot."<BR>
                                       -Lincoln Kennedy, Oakland Raiders tackle, <BR>
                                        on his decision not to vote<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:02:37 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Ken St-Cyr <kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Try Iron Man by Black Sabbath guarenteed to drive out any other<BR>
> melody/lyric from consciousness. (at which point you have to deal with<BR>
> having Iron Man stuck in your head but....)<BR>
<BR>
That playing in my head, combined with my brand new enhancing exoskeleton<BR>
kickass cyborg acronym, penguin sidekick, and PGMP-12, I'm ready to<BR>
walk over to the police station and yell, "I'll litter anytime I damn<BR>
well please!"<BR>
<BR>
- - Ken<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
kenstcyr@cs.pdx.edu                "That machine has got to be destroyed"<BR>
*bleat*                                                     (From Beyond)<BR>
World of the Carnelian Coast:  http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~kenstcyr/coast.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:05:56 -0800<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: I love this list<BR>
<BR>
Where else can you find extensive, intelligent discussions of a <BR>
culture based around BDSM *&* the complete lyrics to Alice's <BR>
Restaurant.  This is a wonderful mailing list!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:12:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Officers with their naught poking bits<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> As for primitive war - Tonight on Fox; Tech 3 Pikes Vs Tech 9 Mercs - there<BR>
> will be blood, Blood BLOOD'.<BR>
<BR>
That sort of thing is why suspect the Imperial Rules of War would have<BR>
a clause about being restricted to hiring Mercs of your own TL. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:21:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Evil, Mind-Raping Zhodani (Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional c ultures)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>Your pre-conceptions are showing. The Zhodani are likely to be more <BR>
>>understanding than most Imperials. Because from their exploration of <BR>
>>the human mind they'll *know* that some people have "inborn" <BR>
>>pre-dispostions towards some of this. <BR>
><BR>
> IMO, the Zhodani are so used to dealing with people who grew up in<BR>
> socially and psychologically moderated environments that people at<BR>
> extremes of behaviour are alien and unsettling to them. Consider the<BR>
> usual Zhodani feeling about the average Imperial citizen's brain...<BR>
> it's a noxious snake pit to them.<BR>
><BR>
> If this was the case, then a Zho who had sufficient exposure to such<BR>
> an exotic culture that he *could* make sense of their minds and<BR>
> motivations would probably be seen by his peers as contaminated.<BR>
> Whether this perception leads to re-educating the person or not<BR>
> will depend on how alien the person's brain feels to other Zhodani<BR>
> at this point. <BR>
><BR>
> I'm of the opinion that where the Zhodani chose to draw the lines<BR>
> between "normal" and "abnormal" was as much a result of the ruling<BR>
> class' percieved needs as it was a result of telepathic study.<BR>
> Once the population had been prodded to a different standard of<BR>
> "normal" - over generations - then the entire frame of reference<BR>
> a Zhodani has on what a normal human mind *is* has also changed.<BR>
<BR>
That's possible. On the other hand, several of these "abnormalities"<BR>
are things that "properly channeled", can be *quite* useful to society.<BR>
dominant and submissive tendencies ought to be *obvious*. "Leader" and<BR>
"follower" types are *always* useful.<BR>
<BR>
Sadistic/masochist tendencies are bit harder to deal with, but given<BR>
that they *are* the sort of thing that if not given *some* sort of<BR>
accepted outlet, tend to cause some real problems, it's worth the effort.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe masochists are given jobs as product testers, with sadists<BR>
supervising to make sure they do it right... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:31:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Songs<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> << Gee, thanks, Loren.  Since I only remembered part of the lyrics, I was<BR>
>  able to get that song out of my head within a couple of hours.  Now that<BR>
>  you've posted the lyrics in all their hideous "glory", it'll probably<BR>
>  take me a week to subdue the beast. >><BR>
><BR>
> I suggest repeated playing of Blue Swede's _Hooked on a Feeling_<BR>
><BR>
> "Oooga-Chucka, Oooga-Chucka, Oooga-Oooga-Oooga-Chucka!"<BR>
><BR>
>  :  )<BR>
<BR>
Or that old "classic" "Chickaboom, Chickaboom...". BTW, for those of<BR>
you who recall this 70s(?) atrocity, have you ever *listened* to the<BR>
words? That's one *strange* story.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:28:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Get it OUT of my head!!!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> It evidently predates radio/popular songs: Mark Twain once wrote an essay <BR>
> about a particularly annoying poem about a bus conductor and transit tickets <BR>
> (repeating the refrain: "punch in the presence of the pass-en-ger") that he <BR>
> could not drive out of his mind. He helpfully provided the entire text, and <BR>
> after reading the essay, I had to play _Hooked on a feeling_ to get rid of <BR>
> it. <BR>
<BR>
I recognize it from just the little bit you give. And I think it *was*<BR>
a popular song of the day. Remember, popular songs date back to at<BR>
*least* the wandering "bards" (I *know* that's the wrong term, ok?) of<BR>
the mddle ages.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:36:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: SongsFrom the keyboard of LKW:<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> If I may be so bold.  Try this one out:<BR>
><BR>
> Sing Amazing Grace to the tune of Gilligan's Island and visey-versy!<BR>
> No kidding!  It can be done!<BR>
><BR>
> "A-maz-ing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a retch like me...<BR>
> I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see...<BR>
> Blind but now I see! ( A three hour tour...)"<BR>
><BR>
> Some truly evil SCA herald/bard told me about that one and it still drills<BR>
> into my head every now and again.<BR>
<BR>
Get your revenge by pointing out to him that both can be sung to<BR>
"Stairway to Heaven". Matter of fact "Stairway to Gilligan's Island"<BR>
(GI words to S2H tune) used to be a regular on Dr. Demento.<BR>
<BR>
*somewhere* I have a list of the other *several dozen* songs that these<BR>
can be sung to the tune of...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:19:12 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
M.A.T.T.: Mechanical Android Trained for Troubleshooting<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:21:09 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks Toy<BR>
<BR>
Send in the P.E.N.G.U.I.N.s!<g><BR>
<BR>
P.E.N.G.U.I.N.: Positronic Electronic Neohuman Generated for Ultimate<BR>
Infiltration and Nullification<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:26:58 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Oh, never mind.  You know, there is a song to the tune of Petula<BR>
> Clark's "Downtown" that concerns not being able to get<BR>
> "Downtown" out of your mind.  One companion on a cross-country<BR>
> ski trip a couple of years ago sang it. And sang it.  And sang<BR>
> it.  We nearly left him at the trailhead when we got back to the<BR>
> car, but some of our gear was in his car at the other trailhead.<BR>
<BR>
"This is the song that goes on and on, my friends..."<BR>
<BR>
Best sung by a squeaky little sock puppet ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:43:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Trader's Map of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Up on the web, I now have a text map of the imperium, showing:<BR>
  +----+<BR>
 /Regina\ (first 6 chars of name)<BR>
+A788899C+ (UWP; the - before TL is removed)<BR>
 \Im +BA/<BR>
  +----+<BR>
  |  ||\Bases<BR>
  |  | \WTN * 2 (Regina is WTN 5.5)<BR>
  |   \-Capital (+ for subsector capital, * for sector capital)<BR>
   \----Alliegance Code (most Imperial fragments are changed to Im)<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/allm.html<BR>
<BR>
I'll be marking the mains as I find time.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:09:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: J6 communications nets<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I am reminded of the post yesterday about the distribution of population<BR>
> within the 3I, in which someone pointed out that almost all of the<BR>
> population lives on a few high-pop planets. It seems to me that this will<BR>
> drive the high-jump communications channels also. After all, people, either<BR>
> directly or indirectly, end up paying for the information. Where are the<BR>
> people who are your potential source of revenue? On the high-pop planets.<BR>
><BR>
> Based upon this, I see two needs for high-jump communications. One for the<BR>
> government and military, and the other for commercial use. The government<BR>
> and military channels must be able to carry communications to and from<BR>
> strategically important places, which may or may not be the same as the<BR>
> high-pop centers, while the commercial network will supply rapid<BR>
> communication between high-pop centers only, with slower channels to other<BR>
> destinations.<BR>
<BR>
It occurs to me that we've all overlooked *the* most valuable cargo a<BR>
pirate might go after...<BR>
<BR>
A "critical" episode of a popular series. <BR>
<BR>
Say, the equivalent of hijacking the master of the "Who Shot JR"<BR>
episode of Dallas before the distribution copies were made. Or the<BR>
final episode of M*A*S*H, or Cheers or Seinfeld.<BR>
<BR>
There'd be entire planetary populations up in arms. Massive riots<BR>
*demanding* the episode. The company would pay a *huge* ransom to avoid<BR>
the delay of re-shooting it...<BR>
<BR>
Getting away with the cash is left as an excercise for the student. So<BR>
is managing to avoid being killed by the fans if you are ever<BR>
identified. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:32:03 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Trade Routes in District 268 and Five Sisters Subsector<BR>
<BR>
Notes : I did this by doing a "hexmap" of staggered squares on an A4 sheet<BR>
of paper, and then marking the worlds in, together with their WTN. I then<BR>
highlighted Ag worlds names in green, and food-deficit (Fl, Na, Va, etc)<BR>
worlds in yellow. Industrial worlds got their name in <brackets> while<BR>
Non-In worlds got overlined. Safe systems (non Amber Zone and a type C<BR>
starport) got their WTN highlighted in orange (trade routes prefer not to go<BR>
thru not-safe systems).<BR>
<BR>
Imperial and client state worlds get a purple dot. I guess when you have<BR>
larger polities than Mewey's then they should get different colour dots too.<BR>
<BR>
The point of this is to put all the information in an easy to digest sheet<BR>
of paper, so you dont have to look stuff up.<BR>
<BR>
The best way to do this would be to then put a sheet of clear plastic over<BR>
it, and use grease pencils on it. But I did it with highlighter pens and<BR>
correcting fluid.<BR>
<BR>
I believe in Jump-3 routes for Milleau 1100, because<BR>
   (a) Jump-2 ships are only significantly more cost effective when you have<BR>
TL11 ports building them, and there arent many TL11 A ports (hmmm. Except<BR>
half the Sword Worlds)<BR>
   (b) fewer jumps are safer on the frontier, both from misjumps and<BR>
p!r!t!s. Avoiding poor starports is relativly less important in the Imperial<BR>
core, however. YIMV.<BR>
<BR>
Milleau zero-200 is a different story, because jump-3 is state of the art,<BR>
and quite possibly restricted to Imperial shipping.<BR>
<BR>
This decision means these routes for District 268 differ from those shown in<BR>
GT:FT. Deal with it :)<BR>
<BR>
Main Routes :<BR>
<BR>
Main routes are drawn in purple highlighter. The only Main (BTN 10+) route I<BR>
could find is Collace-Glisten via Mertactor.<BR>
<BR>
Feeder Routes : (blue highlighter)<BR>
<BR>
The Mire Run from Collace is a Feeder route and is<BR>
Collace-Dallia-Tarkine-Squallia-Asteline-Ator-Mire. From Glisten you go<BR>
Glisten-Egypt-<Dallia/Mertactor>-Tarkine etc. Different companies will stop<BR>
at either Dallia or Mertactor depending on a bunch of stuff (they are both<BR>
viable. Dallia is a more important world for freight, while Mertactor is the<BR>
official subsector capital).<BR>
<BR>
The Sword Worlds Route is the same as the Mire Run, except it goes from<BR>
Asteline to Flammarion and then on to Narsil.<BR>
<BR>
The Karin Route from Glisten is the same as the Mire Run, except at Asteline<BR>
you detour to Iderati, then to Karin.<BR>
<BR>
The Five Sisters have a cluster of feeder routes around Karin and Iderati.<BR>
<BR>
Iderati has feeder routes to Flammarion and the Sword Worlds, to Ator and<BR>
then Mire, and to it's neighbour Gohature.<BR>
<BR>
Karin has a route going Spinward to Mirriam, and a short hop to Jone. Jone<BR>
also has a Feeder Route to Mirriam.<BR>
<BR>
Minor Routes ; <pink highlighter><BR>
<BR>
Trexalon has a cluster of minor routes - to Kwai Ching, to Motmos, to<BR>
Mertactor, to Collace and to Tarsus.<BR>
<BR>
The Wonstar Run goes from Collace, to Avastan, to Mewey, to Quiathat, to<BR>
Wonstar.<BR>
<BR>
Forine has minor routes to the agricultural world of Tarkine and to Dallia.<BR>
<BR>
Pagaton has a minor route to Dallia, and another to Glisten.<BR>
<BR>
Binges has a minor route to Glisten.<BR>
<BR>
Mertactor has a minor route to Mille Falcs.<BR>
<BR>
In Five Sisters, Mirriam has a minor route to Garoo via Enope.<BR>
<BR>
Penelope has minor routes to Karin and Iderati.<BR>
<BR>
Summary by Planet :<BR>
<BR>
Garoo : Minor to Mirriam via Enope, and then on to Karin.<BR>
<BR>
Enope : Minor to Mirriam and Garoo<BR>
<BR>
Mirriam : Minor to Garoo via Enope. Feeders to Jone and Karin.<BR>
<BR>
Jone : Feeders to Mirriam and Karin.<BR>
<BR>
Uchella : Minor to Iderati<BR>
<BR>
Penelope : Minors to Iderati and Karin<BR>
<BR>
Karin : Feeder route to Mirriam and Jone. Minor route to Garoo via Miriam<BR>
and Enope. Feeder oute to Glisten via Iderati, Asteline et al. Minor route<BR>
to Darrians via Iderati. Minor route to Sword Worlds via Iderati and<BR>
Flammarion.<BR>
<BR>
Wonstar : Minor to Collace and Glisten via Quiathat, Mewey, Avastan.<BR>
<BR>
Gohature : Feeder to Iderati<BR>
<BR>
Iderati : Feeder to Karin. Feeder to Darrians via Ator. Feeder to Sword<BR>
Worlds via Flammarion. Feeder to Glisten and Collace via Asteline. Minor to<BR>
Uchella. Minor to Penelope.<BR>
<BR>
Mewey : Minor to Wonstar via Quiathat. Minor to Collace via Avastan.<BR>
<BR>
Asteline : Minor to Iderati and Karin. Minor to Collace and Glisten (Mire<BR>
Run, Sword Worlds Run). Minor to Mire via Ator (Mire Run). Minor to<BR>
Flammarion (Sword Worlds Run).<BR>
<BR>
Avastan : Minor to Colalce. Minor to Wonstar via Mewey and Quiathat (Wonstar<BR>
Run).<BR>
<BR>
Kwai Ching : Minor route to Trexalon<BR>
<BR>
Squallia : One Mire Run and Sword Worlds Run.<BR>
<BR>
Tarsus : Minor route to Trexalon. Feeder route to Trexalon (nb has<BR>
almost-viable minor routes to Kwai Ching and Quiathat)<BR>
<BR>
Collace : Major route to Glisten. Feeder routes to Dallia (Mire Run, Sword<BR>
Worlds Run), Tarsus and Pavabid. Minor routes to Avastan (Wonstar Run),<BR>
Trexalon, Motomos.<BR>
<BR>
Trexalon : Minor routes to Collace, Tarsus, Kwai Ching, Motmos, Mertactor.<BR>
<BR>
Tarkine : On Mire and Sword Worlds runs. Minor route to Forine.<BR>
<BR>
Dallia : On Mire and Sword Worlds runs. Minor routes to Forine, Pagaton.<BR>
Feeder route to Mertactor. Feeder route to Egypt and then Glisten. Feeder<BR>
route to Collace.<BR>
<BR>
Forine : Minor routes to Tarkine, Dallia.<BR>
<BR>
Mertactor : On Tarsus-Glisten Main Route. Minor routes to Mille Falcs and<BR>
Trexalon. Feeder route to Dallia.<BR>
<BR>
Milagro : Minor route to Glisten (LSP special route)<BR>
<BR>
Pagaton : Minor route to Glisten, Dallia.<BR>
<BR>
Binges : Minor route to Glisten<BR>
<BR>
Mille Falcs : Minor routes to Collace via Mertactor, Glisten.<BR>
<BR>
Thats it.<BR>
<BR>
Note that this is just the routes, not the amounts of trade passing thru<BR>
each. I can do that for individual planets on request.<BR>
<BR>
I'll follow this up with some stuff about what companies are on what route,<BR>
but my brain hurts.<BR>
<BR>
Email telling me how much you love Ditzie and appreciate my other work helps<BR>
stop my brain hurting.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:46:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in the<BR>
Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html for them all, or<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif for the image.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:55:00 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: WTN<BR>
<BR>
I have seen WTN in several recent posts.  I was wondering what it meant.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:04:26 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: WTN<BR>
<BR>
World Trade number? From GT: Far Trader.....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:09:45 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: WTN<BR>
<BR>
Cool.  thanks<BR>
<BR>
Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> World Trade number? From GT: Far Trader.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2180<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 25 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2181<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Re: Heinlein Referance<BR>
Re: Me silly - more info needed<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: TFT Traveller and [OT] TFT-by-email gaming<BR>
Re: Land Grab Data Mad Scramble<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Arlo's Alice<BR>
Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
RE: Arlo's Alice<BR>
Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:16:59 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:13:38 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The song that took me days to drive out of my head was prompted by someone <BR>
>asking what happened when the PA-bearing elephant sneezed:<BR>
<BR>
That was me. Sorry! I've never even heard this song before. :-/<BR>
<BR>
>"I went to the animal fair,<BR>
>the birds and the beasts were there.<BR>
>The big baboon, by the light of the moon,<BR>
>Was combing his auburn hair.<BR>
>The monkey, he got drunk,<BR>
>And stepped on the elephant's trunk --<BR>
>The elephant sneezed<BR>
>And fell to his knees,<BR>
>And that was the end of the monk!"<BR>
><BR>
>Anybody else remember that one? It's one of those nonsense songs my mom used <BR>
>to sing at the drop of a hat.<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"I was going to write myself in, but I was afraid I'd get shot."<BR>
                                       -Lincoln Kennedy, Oakland Raiders tackle, <BR>
                                        on his decision not to vote<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:50:43 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein Referance<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:50:49 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>I first encountered it in one of Heinlein's stories (I think it was<BR>
>"The Rolling Stones") and I think I can across a real reference later.<BR>
<BR>
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Spoken by Prof I think.<BR>
My second favorite Heinlein, just after Friday.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:51:12 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Me silly - more info needed<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:02:19 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Me silly - more info needed<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: Just *imagine* the sort of nonsense scholars would come up with<BR>
>to explain various "funny animal cartoons" unearthed from a well<BR>
>preserved collection of DVDs...<BR>
<BR>
Well "The Lion King" is obviously an outcropping of a racial memory of a<BR>
prehistoric encounter with the Aslan.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Say the "Singing frog" cartoon. Or one of the Marvin the Martian cartoons.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's here! It's Here! My explosive Q-36 Space Modulator. Now I can blow up<BR>
the Earth!<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:47:03 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:31 PM 3/23/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > The TNS in Survival Margin (the MT/TNE transition product)<BR>
> > continues to post new reports even after the Imperial Government<BR>
> > issues an order to cease transmissions (of course, they're spreading<BR>
> > the Virus in the process, but that's beside the point).  Several other<BR>
> > transmissions in Survival Margin include material that does appear<BR>
> > to run counter to the government's ideals (Lucan, at the time) when<BR>
> > they were published.  These would seem to be indications that the<BR>
> > TNS is a free press (or at least that it was during the Rebellion).  I'll<BR>
> > bring some specifics up once I have time to look them up.<BR>
><BR>
>Fair enough. For the sake of discussion, I'll even concede a "free press" in<BR>
>the sense that organizations such as the Traveller News Service exist. How<BR>
>free is free, though? Do such publications carry a license? Are there<BR>
>guidelines concerning what may be published? Is there an underlying ideology<BR>
>that sustains the free press (ala the First Amendment), or is it just that<BR>
>no organization can effectively control "the press"?<BR>
<BR>
We actually need to know a lot more about how the Traveller News Service <BR>
operates before we can say anything. Since in Survival Margin we don't know <BR>
where the reports are being read, they could have been re-writed by the <BR>
local government.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > > Citizens are allowed to travel within and without the Imperial<BR>
> > > borders. This was also the case in a hell of a lot of other cultures.<BR>
> > > Most of them, in fact.<<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And not true of many others.<BR>
><BR>
>Actually, it's been true of a hell of a lot of cultures, simply because many<BR>
>cultures didn't have the means to stop people from leaving if they wanted.<BR>
>Most, if not all of the ancient Greek poleis allowed freedom of movement,<BR>
>and lots of people did move around. The culture's not really similar to the<BR>
>United States.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
IIRC, up until World War I, you could travel freely almost anywhere in <BR>
Europe without a passport.<BR>
<BR>
> > Well, if it's true for the Emperor, it may be true for much of the<BR>
> > nobility, as I would think they would tend to follow the practices of the<BR>
> > Imperial court.<BR>
><BR>
>Family bonds are deep structures. It's very difficult for a culture to "give<BR>
>up" their understanding of family in favor of another. Family structures<BR>
>don't tend to change much in a culture, and are certainly not faddish.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Although in several societies, social engineers have TRIED to alter family <BR>
structures and failed.<BR>
<BR>
><guns><BR>
><BR>
> > I am probably showing my Americo-centro views on many of these<BR>
> > points.  But the designers of the game live in America, so maybe this<BR>
> > one is a valid point.<BR>
><BR>
>Okay. Guns are available, at least in theory, in both cultures. However, how<BR>
>guns fit into that culture might be vastly different, and how a culture uses<BR>
>guns might be vastly different.<BR>
><BR>
>Private individuals can control private armies with lots of large scale,<BR>
>high-tech equipment. Not only can they own private armies, they can employ<BR>
>these private armies for profit and kill individuals on a large scale within<BR>
>the Imperium totally legally.<BR>
><BR>
>This is a superficial similarity, and it speaks to a much bigger rift<BR>
>between our culture and Imperial culture.<BR>
<BR>
Private individuals control private armies now. The South American drug <BR>
cartels are private, abet illegal armies. There are serveral international <BR>
security firms that function more or less as armies for profit.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe instead of comparing Imperial culture to US culture, a more valid <BR>
comparison might be Imperial culture to Earth's culture, if there is such a <BR>
thing.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:51:27 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 03/24/00 at 10:45 AM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Are they any relation to NA possum?  They also are reputed to be edible,<BR>
>> though gamy.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> However, I'd have a problem eating fellow Lodge brothers. Carpe Ductum!<BR>
<BR>
<grin> A fellow Possum Lodge member, I see. <BR>
<BR>
>I don't think so. The Aussie possum (IIRC the correct spelling is <BR>
>actually "Opossum") is a herbivourous marsupial about the size of a <BR>
>large cat. They climb well and are a serious pest in New Zealand, where <BR>
>along with goats, wasps and deer they are destroying our native  forests.<BR>
>At one point they were trapped heavily for their fur, but when  the<BR>
>greenies destroyed the world fur market that feel by the wayside  and<BR>
>only recently has there been any recovery.<BR>
<BR>
That sounds like the possum I know and love here in the American<BR>
south.  Ours are usually somewhat *bigger* than a cat and they are<BR>
omnivorous.  I'll bet yours are too.  OTOH, the idea of a possum fur<BR>
coat makes me laugh!!!  <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:53:59 -0600<BR>
From: "Anthony Merlock" <amerlock@execpc.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveller and [OT] TFT-by-email gaming<BR>
<BR>
> From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
><BR>
> >From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
> >Subject: TFT Traveller<BR>
><BR>
> <snip><BR>
><BR>
> >Pshaw! Obvious y'all never really read ALL of ITL. You can "Forget" a<BR>
> >talent by non-use. Requires a few rolls, but it CAN be done. And Talents<BR>
> >normally take multiple slots. And you only get slots totalling your IQ.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually I must confess to not reading any of ITL. In the days when it was<BR>
> readily available I had just moved on from FRPG to SFRPG. I have the basic<BR>
> Melee and<BR>
> Wizard games but not the other books. I kick myself now for not buying the<BR>
> rest of the TFT stuff but I was arraogant in my earlier days and didn't<BR>
> realize<BR>
> that I might need the full rule system.<BR>
<BR>
Some of the advanced rules are on eBay, although they *do* command eBay<BR>
prices... I just won an auction for ITL - with shipping, a tad under $20.<BR>
I'm currently in the running for Advanced Wizard, but I'm sure I'll be<BR>
outbid, as there are 4 days left....<BR>
<BR>
TFT was the third RPG I owned (after Traveller and Basic D&D - yes, in that<BR>
order), and in the "good old days", TFT beat out D&D among my friends (and,<BR>
for many years, TFT and Traveller were the big two games).  I gave away all<BR>
my TFT stuff back then (to my brothers, so it's still in the family), but am<BR>
starting to rebuild my collection (thanks to a visit to Crazy Egor's at<BR>
GenCon, and eBay).  I'd just lay claim to my old books, but they were used<BR>
so much that they're all falling apart, and I want them in better condition.<BR>
<BR>
Fans of TFT might want to look at the following link, for TFT gameboxes for<BR>
CyberBoard:<BR>
http://www.brainiac.com/tft/pbem.html<BR>
<BR>
I've never tried Traveller using TFT rules, and nowadays, I'd be much more<BR>
likely to use either Fuzion or FUDGE (if I were to use an alternate rule<BR>
system for Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
Of course, with a new house, and a baby due in July, I'm not going to be<BR>
playing any Traveller any time soon (unfortunately).<BR>
<BR>
Tony Merlock<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:41:07 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Land Grab Data Mad Scramble<BR>
<BR>
> How accurate is the data between the SMCB and AB's site?<BR>
<BR>
I use the Spinward Marches Campaign as my primary source.  I have just<BR>
checked and the data is accurate.<BR>
<BR>
Please note that I made up some bits like the temperature without checking<BR>
against anything like Scouts etc.  You may want to verify some of those<BR>
figures (in the black text on the page.)<BR>
<BR>
Efate is noted in the Spinward Marches Campaign on pg9:<BR>
<BR>
"The Zhodani battle plan always centred on Efate.  The strategic position of<BR>
Efate would give the Zhodani a salient into Regina Subsector...<BR>
<BR>
In the years before the war, Zhodani funded guerrillas had mounted an ever<BR>
escalating insurrection on Efate...<BR>
<BR>
The defense of Efate was the responsibility of the 193rd Fleet operating in<BR>
essentially static positions controlling close orbit around the world.<BR>
Independent squadrons answering to 193rd fleet command were stationed in<BR>
nearby systems...<BR>
<BR>
The Zhodani assigned the task of besieging Efate to the 1st Assault Fleet...<BR>
<BR>
Major offensives at Efate were continually repulsed.<BR>
<BR>
By early 1109, the siege of Efate was being prosecuted only half-hartedly.<BR>
Squadrons faced off but rarely engaged.  Fast ships ran the gauntlet to<BR>
Efate's surface, but even small percentage losses mounted up and brought<BR>
that to a halt.<BR>
<BR>
By mid-1109, the Zhodani High Command had begun rotating out the better<BR>
classes of ships..."<BR>
<BR>
Other Spinward Marches Campaign facts generally relevant to the Landgrab:<BR>
<BR>
* Vanejen was colonised in -2400 by the first Imperium but was abandoned as<BR>
the empire disintigrated.<BR>
* In about -1000 Algine was settled by a Solomani colonisation ship.<BR>
* In -399 Gram was the first of the Sword Worlds to be colonised.<BR>
* Mora was settled in 60.<BR>
* Regina was settled in 75.<BR>
* Between 200 and 400 the major settlement took place of the Sector.<BR>
* By 500 there was exploration into Zhodani territory and Foreven sector.<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:03:17 +1100<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
Being a cynical bastard I don't usually send congratulatory e-mails, but<BR>
having had a go (well more strictly, still having a go) at something like<BR>
this I can only say:<BR>
<BR>
Wow!  Well done.<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:46:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
> Subject: More Cool Maps<BR>
><BR>
> Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in the<BR>
> Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html for them all, or<BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif for the image.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:32:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
><BR>
>> >"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Resteraunt<BR>
>> >excepting Alice"<BR>
><BR>
>> Dammnit! No I gotta go find that CD!<BR>
><BR>
> Here's the guitar tab and complete lyrics.<BR>
><BR>
> Sorry about the bandwidth, people, but I sort of assumed a number of people<BR>
> would like to see it.<BR>
><BR>
> From: mzraly@cs.umb.edu (Michael S. Zraly)<BR>
><BR>
>                         Alice's Restaurant<BR>
>                         ------------------<BR>
> words & music by                         transcribed by<BR>
>   Arlo Guthrie                    Russ Shipton<BR>
<BR>
And don't worry about the copyright. Arlo gave permission to post it on<BR>
the Net *years* ago. I know of at least two newsgroups where it gets<BR>
posted annually. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:48:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:31 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> <snip><BR>
>>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
>>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
<BR>
Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
husband. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:31:39 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Arlo's Alice<BR>
<BR>
On 03/24/00 at 07:32 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
>><BR>
>>                         Alice's Restaurant<BR>
>>                         ------------------<BR>
>> words & music by                         transcribed by<BR>
>>   Arlo Guthrie                    Russ Shipton<BR>
<BR>
>And don't worry about the copyright. Arlo gave permission to post it on<BR>
>the Net *years* ago. I know of at least two newsgroups where it gets<BR>
>posted annually. <BR>
<BR>
I was glad to see it. Haven't seen it posted before.  The only problem with the written lyrics is that it loses the pauses and tones that Arlo brings to the performance. You  have to *hear* it...and preferably live. <BR>
<BR>
MAN!!! That brings back memories!  <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:33:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
CLASSIC D&D has classes only and no skills. This is called a first<BR>
generation game. As far as the technology of RPG's goes this is a lower tech<BR>
level then others. That doesn't make the game bad just not advanced in what<BR>
it can do.<BR>
Traveller DOES have Classes calling them Careers or racial packages or<BR>
occupations doesn't change the fact that you have the skills that you have<BR>
because you are X thing.<BR>
This makes Traveller a second generation gaming system. It's very flexible<BR>
and with a game as packed as traveller is very generic as well.<BR>
GURPS is an example of a skill base system because you don't really have a<BR>
job person only a group of skills and the fact that you can do X job. This<BR>
is an example of a 3rd generation system and all the generic systems fall in<BR>
this category.<BR>
Now the generations are not hard there is some fuzzy areas. One example of<BR>
the fuzzy area's is WW Vampire and World of Darkness setting. The vampire<BR>
types are classes but the skills are free to choose from. so I'd call it<BR>
about a 2.5 on the scaling that I've presented.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:26 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
>>     One of the biggest advantages to "conversion" is that the d20<BR>
>> system is fully integrated as far as skills and combat go and both<BR>
>> Traveller and D&D use a "class-based" system- albeit, Traveller's<BR>
>> is a bit looser :-)<BR>
><BR>
>I have to completely disagree that Traveller uses a class-based system.<BR>
><BR>
>Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
>careers, which you can easily move between. Admittedly the CT rules didn't<BR>
>talk much about moving between careers, but they didn't explicitly forbid<BR>
>it. Later systems (TNE) expected changes in career.<BR>
><BR>
>D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
>Of course, AD&D 3 may change this, I don't know, but I doubt very much that<BR>
>TSR will drop it's level based systesm, especially as people are saying<BR>
>AD&D3 is similar to Alternity which still has levels.<BR>
><BR>
>Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:05:12 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Arlo's Alice<BR>
<BR>
> >>                         Alice's Restaurant<BR>
> >>                         ------------------<BR>
> >> words & music by                         transcribed by<BR>
> >>   Arlo Guthrie                    Russ Shipton<BR>
> >And don't worry about the copyright. Arlo gave permission to post it on<BR>
> >the Net *years* ago. I know of at least two newsgroups where it gets<BR>
> >posted annually.<BR>
><BR>
> I was glad to see it. Haven't seen it posted before.  The only<BR>
> problem with the written lyrics is that it loses the pauses and<BR>
> tones that Arlo brings to the performance. You  have to *hear*<BR>
> it...and preferably live.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I _could_ post an MP3...<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
The worst bit (IMO) is that the transcription makes no attempt to portray<BR>
Arlo's pronounciation of "massacre", which is something like "mass-a-cree""<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav Joke: The destruction a large number of K'Kree is a massak'kree<BR>
<BR>
> MAN!!! That brings back memories!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, yaas!<BR>
<BR>
Flashback city.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 01:30:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
As some of you may know from my other post, I am something of a<BR>
gearhead. I sent this article to the rec.games.frp.gurps newsgroup<BR>
and the GURPSnet-l mailing list a little while ago, and since I just<BR>
joined this list I thought I'd avail myself of the expert knowledge<BR>
and experience found here. (Okay, it's a bit deep, but just three<BR>
days of lurking have left me rather impressed.) I have inserted a<BR>
few new notes to translate some of my more GURPS related comments to<BR>
Traveller terms. I suspect this issue is hotly debated, but please<BR>
be gentle - I'm just a newbie traveller trying to get a handle on<BR>
things in this universe.<BR>
<BR>
> The issue of "The viability and utility of external drop tanks for<BR>
> jump fuel"  was only briefly addressed by a single paragraph on<BR>
> p.108 of "GT: Far Trader." Since the mechanics of this technology<BR>
> were not explored at all, I didn't think much about it until I came<BR>
> across the following articles in the TNS archives.<BR>
<BR>
> >                          Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
> >                                   1105<BR>
<BR>
> >  Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 097-1105<BR>
<BR>
> >  Officials of the General Shipyards on Regina announced that it has<BR>
> >  completed negotiations with Tukera Lines to locally manufacture L-Hyd<BR>
> >  drop tanks for use on high-capacity commercial vessels. General will<BR>
> >  assemble components at its more modern facilities on Pixie<BR>
> >  (0303-A1001030-D). The first production examples are expected to be<BR>
> >  available within six months, at which time Tukera Lines will begin<BR>
> >  high capacity service from the interior. Component assembly will be<BR>
> >  carried out at General's more modern facilities on Pixie<BR>
> >  (0303-A100103-D).<BR>
<BR>
> Looks like the Department of Redundancy Department is at work again.<BR>
> (Is that redundant?) :)<BR>
<BR>
> >  L-Hyd drop ships have only been in service for the last dozen years in<BR>
> >  the interior, being made possible by recent advances in the field of<BR>
> >  capacitor engineering, a joint press release explained. Commercial<BR>
> >  vessels equipped with the new generation of long-storage jump<BR>
> >  capacitors carry jump fuel in specially designed L-Hyd drop tanks in<BR>
> >  excess of their rated tonnage. Upon conversion of the fuel to the<BR>
> >  massive energy required for jump, the drop tanks are explosively<BR>
> >  jettisoned through the use of break-away connections and explosive<BR>
> >  bolts. Jump is executed when the remains of the tanks are a safe<BR>
> >  distance from the vessel.<BR>
<BR>
> This news release is set more than a decade prior to the opening of<BR>
> the GURPS Traveller AU (15 before the recommended base year of the<BR>
> campaigns), and yet the technology of drop tanks seems a mature one<BR>
> "in the interior." However several reasons for the delay in their<BR>
> deployment are already becoming apparent.<BR>
<BR>
> 1.) They are complex to use. Rather than just feed the jump drive<BR>
>     and go, the crew must:<BR>
<BR>
>     a - Feed the long storage jump capacitor (LSJC).<BR>
>     b - Jettison the tanks.<BR>
>     c - Move away to a safe distance (100D of the ship?)<BR>
>     d - Jump.<BR>
<BR>
>     This must be done quickly because "Long Storage" is a relative<BR>
>     thing, and the jump must be made before the capacitor explodes.<BR>
<BR>
> >  A spokesman for General Shipyards explained that local yards are not<BR>
> >  yet capable of manufacturing the long-storage capacitors required for<BR>
> >  the process, but that production of the drop tanks is possible, thus<BR>
> >  allowing the high capacity starships of the Tukera Lines to begin<BR>
> >  service to the Regina subsector.<BR>
<BR>
> 2.) LSJCs appear to be a TL12 item (probably working *only* with<BR>
>     TL12 Jump Drives at X times the drive's mass and volume and Y<BR>
>     times its cost) and must be imported from "the interior." This<BR>
>     means that while the Imperial navy and some rich corporations<BR>
>     like Tukera Lines will be able to afford it, the smaller and/or<BR>
>     less technologically advanced firms will not.<BR>
<BR>
(Note 1: I'm referring to the GURPS Tech Levels here, which would be<BR>
Traveller TL 15. Are there any canonical specs on this unit I could<BR>
translate into GURPS terms?)<BR>
<BR>
> 3.) Since transporting empty tanks between systems sort of defeats<BR>
>     the purpose, L-Hyd tanks *must* be produced locally. This will<BR>
>     require at least a Class III starport, limiting the places "high<BR>
>     capacity starships" can visit.<BR>
<BR>
(Note 2: GURPS Class III = Traveller Class C. Curious how Traveller<BR>
has six basic starport classes and so does GURPS Space. Even more so<BR>
is how well they line up. Must be coincidence. ;))<BR>
<BR>
> >  L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost per<BR>
> >  jump. However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo tonnage<BR>
> >  resulting from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more than<BR>
> >  makes up for this, the press release explained.<BR>
<BR>
> 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
>     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
>     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
>     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
>     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
>     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
<BR>
> >  The joint press release concluded by stating that local manufacture of<BR>
> >  L-Hyd drop tanks marks the dawn of a new era of commerce and<BR>
> >  prosperity in the Regina subsector. Following the announcement, common<BR>
> >  stock in Oberlindes Lines plummeted 27 points on the Regina exchange<BR>
> >  before trading was suspended. Officials of Oberlindes Lines were not<BR>
> >  available for comment.<BR>
<BR>
> 5.) As shown above, entrenched shipping interests with large capital<BR>
>     investments in older ships would be adamantly (and in some cases<BR>
>     *violently*) opposed to drop-tank technology. Smaller outfits<BR>
>     would also be threatened.<BR>
<BR>
> >  Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 101-1105<BR>
<BR>
> >  Close on the heels of the joint announcement by General Shipyards and<BR>
> >  Tukera Lines that L-Hyd drop tanks would soon be manufactured in the<BR>
> >  Regina subsector, came word by express boat from the Imperial core<BR>
> >  that a decision has been made to deploy Jump-6 L-Hyd drop tank express<BR>
> >  boats on all major express routes. Initial feasibility studies<BR>
> >  indicate that such a system could average jump-5.5 per week by<BR>
> >  executing maximum jumps, and leaving current xboats to disseminate<BR>
> >  information between the new major relay points. The system is expected<BR>
> >  to cut communication time to the Imperial hub to under 25 weeks. The<BR>
> >  Initial System Deployment Schedule indicates that the Regina subsector<BR>
> >  can expect to be fully integrated into the network within a decade.<BR>
<BR>
> 6.) The regional nobility would not welcome the closer ties with the<BR>
>     Imperial goverment because this would reduce their own autonomy.<BR>
>     Foreign governments would be wary that the Imperium's expanded<BR>
>     reach might provoke a war of conquest.<BR>
<BR>
(Note 3: I wrote this *before* I joined TML, and had no idea the<BR>
concept of a J-6 X-boat network was being so hotly debated. FWIW, I<BR>
agree that whatever the long term benefits, the immediate effects<BR>
would be rather uncomfortable and disruptive to the status quo.)<BR>
<BR>
> >  Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 201-1105<BR>
<BR>
> >  Last night a series of explosions ripped through Vehicle Assembly<BR>
> >  Building No 3 of the General Shipyards facility on Pixie. Both company<BR>
> >  and military investigators on the scene report that the damage was<BR>
> >  almost certainly the work of saboteurs.<BR>
<BR>
> >  General Shipyard's Vehicle Assembly Building No 3 housed the main<BR>
> >  assembly line for the production of L-Hyd drop tanks. The L-Hyd drop<BR>
> >  tank project, undertaken in conjunction with the Tukera Line (of<BR>
> >  Vland/Vland), is expected to open up the Regina subsector to high<BR>
> >  capacity commercial access from the interior. A spokesperson for the<BR>
> >  company reported that the explosions probably set the project back by<BR>
> >  at least three months.<BR>
<BR>
> >  Imperial Navy Commander Lobeck hault-Donosev, the naval system liaison<BR>
> >  officer on the L-Hyd project, high General Shipyards press secretary<BR>
> >  Harcord Haveln discounted any political motives for the sabotage.<BR>
> >  "There are commercial concerns in the subsector", he said, "who place<BR>
> >  their own self-interest above that of the population as a whole." When<BR>
> >  pressed to explain, he refused to elaborate. The naval liaison officer<BR>
> >  to the L-Hyd project, announced that Naval Counter-Intelligence was<BR>
> >  exploring the possibility that the sabotage was the work of Ine Givar<BR>
> >  terrorists. Ine Givar activity in the Regina subsector has thus far<BR>
> >  been limited to scattered and ineffective strikes on Efate and Feri,<BR>
> >  but that this incident "definitely bore their signature," he<BR>
> >  explained.<BR>
<BR>
> 7.) There are certainly no lack of suspects, are there? Any anti-<BR>
>     Imperialist group (like Ine Givar or the Rule of Terra) would<BR>
>     definitely oppose anything that would strengthen the Imperium.<BR>
>     In fact, it seems like the only people who want this technology<BR>
>     are are those who already have it and the people who would pay<BR>
>     lower shipping costs because of it, and the former would be<BR>
>     perfectly happy if no one *else* got it as long as they could<BR>
>     use it where they wanted to and make a profit.<BR>
<BR>
> Shortly after this, a number of worlds in the Spinward Marches faced<BR>
> insurrection and revolution, and this combined with an accidental(?)<BR>
> destruction of a drop-tank ship (a tank failed to jettison properly<BR>
> preventing the jump) and the Fifth Frontier War with the Zhodani<BR>
> (1107-1110) forced a final halt to the drop-tank network project. In<BR>
> light of the lack of territorial gains for either side in this war<BR>
> (sidebar GT p.80), one wonders if this was the real reason that the<BR>
> Zhodani fought it in the first place, and whether a secret agreement<BR>
> was reached to block such developments in the future. <FNORD!><BR>
<BR>
(Note 4: Not that I'm implying that Imperial interests would *ever*<BR>
be involved in anything as sordid as a secret conspiracy to suppress<BR>
inconvenient technological innovations. That would be as silly as<BR>
Solomani allegations that a ship crewed by members of a minor Vilani<BR>
subject race crashed on Terra circa -2574 Imperial.)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |       The shifty icon is innocent. FNORD!        |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2181<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2182</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 25 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2182<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
re:  J6 communications nets <BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: Why *NOT* drop tanks?<BR>
Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
Palm software<BR>
Re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
RE: Arlo's Alice<BR>
Re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
OT: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
TFT Traveller<BR>
Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Can I also bags Moughas (2406 Regina/Spinward Marches) ?<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (long again, sorry)<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
Pirate debate closed?<BR>
Re: : Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:36:11 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 12:33 AM,  "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>CLASSIC D&D has classes only and no skills. This is called a first<BR>
>generation game. As far as the technology of RPG's goes this is a lower<BR>
>tech level then others. That doesn't make the game bad just not advanced<BR>
>in what it can do.<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller DOES have Classes calling them Careers or racial packages or<BR>
>occupations doesn't change the fact that you have the skills that you<BR>
>have because you are X thing.<BR>
<BR>
>This makes Traveller a second generation gaming system. It's very<BR>
>flexible and with a game as packed as traveller is very generic as well.<BR>
>GURPS is an example of a skill base system because you don't really have<BR>
>a job person only a group of skills and the fact that you can do X job.<BR>
>This is an example of a 3rd generation system and all the generic systems<BR>
>fall in this category.<BR>
<BR>
Let me guess...you like GURPS, right?  Not that there's anything<BR>
wrong with that!  <g><BR>
<BR>
I do disagree with your representation of Traveller Careers as<BR>
Classes, but then we all have our own opinions about things.  For<BR>
example, in my opinion GURPS is less advanced than Traveller because<BR>
it doesn't incorporate the disconnected skills into logical<BR>
professions and/or careers.  Of course, my opinion is no more or<BR>
less than my opinion. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 01:45:50 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: re:  J6 communications nets <BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:59:03 -0800<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: J6 communications nets <BR>
<<<SNIP>>><BR>
>Based upon this, I see two needs for high-jump communications. One for the<BR>
>government and military, and the other for commercial use. The government<BR>
>and military channels must be able to carry communications to and from<BR>
>strategically important places, which may or may not be the same as the<BR>
>high-pop centers, while the commercial network will supply rapid<BR>
>communication between high-pop centers only, with slower channels to other<BR>
>destinations.<BR>
<BR>
	I agree completely, or at least to the extent that high pop equals either<BR>
important market or important production center.  Which is almost all the<BR>
time, but there are probably some exceptions to be found.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:48:30 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 01:30 AM,  Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> said:<BR>
<BR>
>As some of you may know from my other post, I am something of a gearhead.<BR>
>I sent this article to the rec.games.frp.gurps newsgroup and the<BR>
>GURPSnet-l mailing list a little while ago, and since I just joined this<BR>
>list I thought I'd avail myself of the expert knowledge and experience<BR>
>found here. (Okay, it's a bit deep, but just three days of lurking have<BR>
>left me rather impressed.) I have inserted a few new notes to translate<BR>
>some of my more GURPS related comments to Traveller terms. I suspect this<BR>
>issue is hotly debated, but please be gentle - I'm just a newbie<BR>
>traveller trying to get a handle on things in this universe.<BR>
<BR>
Dalton, welcome!  <BR>
<BR>
As you suspected, the issue of drop tanks is a hotly debated topic.<BR>
I'll let the various factions introduce themselves to you.<BR>
Personally, I *liked* your presentation, made great sense to me,<BR>
although IMTU, I just say no to drop tanks.  Btw, do you own a pair<BR>
of asbestos underwear?  <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:23:27 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why *NOT* drop tanks?<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 2000 at 01:30 (GMT -0500), dalton.spence@hwcn.org wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<<<SNIP>>><BR>
<<<SNIP>>><BR>
<<<SNIP>>><BR>
	Heh, it's not long anymore, LOL.  :-><BR>
<BR>
	Wow, great crosspost, Dalton.  Thanks.  Lots of handy info, and very<BR>
timely to the threads on the TML too.  That was very cool.  I also enjoyed<BR>
the Firesign Theatre "Department of Redundancy Depart" reference.  All hail<BR>
Lennon & Marx....er all hail Firesign Theatre.<BR>
<BR>
	Were long term jump capacitors added in GT, or which version?  It's a<BR>
pretty neatly done handwave.<BR>
<BR>
	What's this about "...a minor Vilani subject race crashed on Terra circa<BR>
- -2574 Imperial."?  I must have missed something.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:33:55 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
Okay - when rolling for damage - how do you decide which stat it affects?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:49:42 -0500<BR>
From: Peter Miller <thegolem@mindless.com><BR>
Subject: Palm software<BR>
<BR>
Hi,<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know of (or maintain) a web page of PalmPilot Traveller software?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance,<BR>
<BR>
Peter<BR>
__________________________Peter J. Miller<BR>
thegolem@mindless.com        ICQ #5294589<BR>
<BR>
"Loneliness is not a phase..."<BR>
          - 'Angry Chair', Alice in Chains<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:36:47 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 06:33 AM,  "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Okay - when rolling for damage - how do you decide which stat it affects?<BR>
<BR>
Well, let's see...<BR>
<BR>
In CT and T4, you put all the damage from the first wound into one<BR>
of the physical characteristic (Strength, Endurance, or Dexterity)<BR>
chosen *randomly*...according to both sets of rules.  I suppose you<BR>
could roll 1,2=Str; 3,4=End; 5,6=Dex if you wanted to really follow<BR>
the rules.  Personally, I always let the character pick the stat.<BR>
After the first wound each die of the damage was applied to a<BR>
physical stat in turn, and normally the player picks which stat<BR>
takes the hit.<BR>
<BR>
I think MT is the same.  TNE handles damage and wounding<BR>
differently. <BR>
<BR>
Minor question of mine...Let's say you have a 2d+2 weapon (whether<BR>
from strength of armor or whatever). Do you apply it like this...<BR>
<BR>
1d<BR>
1d<BR>
1 pip<BR>
1 pip<BR>
<BR>
...or like this?<BR>
<BR>
1d<BR>
1d<BR>
2 pips<BR>
<BR>
I think the first way is how T4 does it, but I'm not sure.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:42:48 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Arlo's Alice<BR>
<BR>
At 1:31 -0500 25/3/00, Frankie wrote:<BR>
> > I was glad to see it. Haven't seen it posted before.  The only<BR>
> > problem with the written lyrics is that it loses the pauses and<BR>
> > tones that Arlo brings to the performance. You  have to *hear*<BR>
> > it...and preferably live.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, I _could_ post an MP3...<BR>
><grin><BR>
<BR>
Not on the list or I despatch my fleets to destroy your homeworld.<BR>
<BR>
I don't want to think what an MP3 would do to the Digest.<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:34:58 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT Reprint review on RPG net<BR>
<BR>
At 21:11 -0500 24/3/00, "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
> >BITS is not importing them.<BR>
> >Dom<BR>
>After posting to the discusion at rpgnet and the TML it dawned<BR>
>on me that I should probably have let the Brits sort it out.<BR>
>I appologize if I've caused any problems by my ill advised<BR>
>distribution of the bits email adress in this regard. (though I<BR>
>honestly did think if anybody knew you would.)<BR>
<BR>
It's no skin off my nose - Andy gets the bits@bits.org.uk addressed email....<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, Marc confirmed yesterday that he had sent copies to Esdevium, <BR>
the largest of the UK distributors. So they should be available now...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:54:27 PST<BR>
From: "Andrew Hewson" <loup_wolf@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: OT: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
<BR>
Hi all,<BR>
<BR>
I'm lucky enough to be spending the month of April in Sydney and was <BR>
wondering if there are any TML's / RPGs in the area that I could get in <BR>
touch with for a game or two while I'm in town?<BR>
<BR>
I'm flying on Sunday 26th March, but will be picking up emails when I <BR>
arrive.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance<BR>
Regards<BR>
Andy				loup_wolf@hotmail.com<BR>
========================******========================<BR>
                 RPGA &   BITS member<BR>
Trolls aren't stupid !  They're thermally challenged<BR>
========================******========================<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:15:39 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>>> I must confess that though I mentioned the<BR>
>>> idea I'm in the rather dificult position of working<BR>
>>> from less than the full set of materials for TFT.<BR>
>>> Anybody know where I could get the advanced books<BR>
>>> cheep?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Good Bloody Luck.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Wishing I had kept a former girl friends copies longer....<BR>
>><BR>
>>And a noght at Kinko's<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>At the time they were available I couldn't quite justify buying<BR>
>the advanced materials. Now I'm kicking myself for my<BR>
>short-sightedness.<BR>
><BR>
>Dave Shayne<BR>
><BR>
Contact Bosco's Comics and Games www.boscos.com<BR>
<BR>
I know they have MOST of the stuff. They found one of their distributors<BR>
had a stock of TFT stuff... CHEAP! (I paid cover for a few replacement<BR>
items.)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:26:46 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Sample J6 mail net<BR>
<BR>
>Basically, you predict a dozen companies that will have stock prices rise by<BR>
>10% in by 30 June 2000. I'll do the same, except that I'll place my bets in<BR>
>2 months time.<BR>
><BR>
>Then I'll discount my winnings by 10%, to reflect the megacredit or so it<BR>
>cost to get that Core Business News flown out by Jump-6 courier.<BR>
><BR>
>Oh, and sports gambling can be made, well, much less sporting by as well, by<BR>
>having much more advanced information than the other guys.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, so a profit can be made on the stock markets and in other information <BR>
sensitive areas...<BR>
<BR>
Now we only need to solve one last problem: How to get J-6 drives. I see <BR>
them as not readily available on the open market, but requiring a special <BR>
license by the Imperial Government. The Imperium would be incredibly stupid <BR>
to give its information advantage away just to let a couple of people make <BR>
a fortune.<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:45:25 +1100<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
> From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
> Subject: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
><BR>
> As some of you may know from my other post, I am something of a<BR>
> gearhead. I sent this article to the rec.games.frp.gurps newsgroup<BR>
> and the GURPSnet-l mailing list a little while ago, and since I just<BR>
> joined this list I thought I'd avail myself of the expert knowledge<BR>
> and experience found here. (Okay, it's a bit deep, but just three<BR>
> days of lurking have left me rather impressed.)<BR>
<BR>
Three days, huh. I guess that means you missed the Elephant-Mounted Particle<BR>
Accelerator and the TL6 1100 kmh Rocket Bike.<BR>
<BR>
> > The issue of "The viability and utility of external drop tanks for<BR>
> > jump fuel"  was only briefly addressed by a single paragraph on<BR>
> > p.108 of "GT: Far Trader." Since the mechanics of this technology<BR>
> > were not explored at all, I didn't think much about it until I came<BR>
> > across the following articles in the TNS archives.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
It was debated a bit during development of GT:FT. Basically along the lines<BR>
of "how the heck do we stop them being used".<BR>
<BR>
> > >  L-Hyd drop ships have only been in service for the last dozen years<BR>
in<BR>
> > >  the interior, being made possible by recent advances in the field of<BR>
> > >  capacitor engineering, a joint press release explained. Commercial<BR>
> > >  vessels equipped with the new generation of long-storage jump<BR>
> > >  capacitors carry jump fuel in specially designed L-Hyd drop tanks in<BR>
> > >  excess of their rated tonnage. Upon conversion of the fuel to the<BR>
> > >  massive energy required for jump, the drop tanks are explosively<BR>
> > >  jettisoned through the use of break-away connections and explosive<BR>
> > >  bolts. Jump is executed when the remains of the tanks are a safe<BR>
> > >  distance from the vessel.<BR>
<BR>
> > 1.) They are complex to use. Rather than just feed the jump drive<BR>
> >     and go, the crew must:<BR>
><BR>
> >     a - Feed the long storage jump capacitor (LSJC).<BR>
<BR>
This is my big problem with the idea of drop tanks - if we have some sort of<BR>
new high capacity capacitor, then on behalf of Famile Spofulam, I want the<BR>
full technical specs to allow a radical reduction in the size of our<BR>
Particle Accelerator Weapon systems. Energy is energy, right ?<BR>
<BR>
> > 2.) LSJCs appear to be a TL12 item (probably working *only* with<BR>
> >     TL12 Jump Drives at X times the drive's mass and volume and Y<BR>
> >     times its cost) and must be imported from "the interior." This<BR>
> >     means that while the Imperial navy and some rich corporations<BR>
> >     like Tukera Lines will be able to afford it, the smaller and/or<BR>
> >     less technologically advanced firms will not.<BR>
><BR>
> (Note 1: I'm referring to the GURPS Tech Levels here, which would be<BR>
> Traveller TL 15. Are there any canonical specs on this unit I could<BR>
> translate into GURPS terms?)<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, this press release is very old (like about issue 1 of JTAS).<BR>
It is also in conflicy with other products also recognised as Traveller<BR>
Canon, such as High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron, which allow drop<BR>
tanks at much lower TLs.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > 3.) Since transporting empty tanks between systems sort of defeats<BR>
> >     the purpose, L-Hyd tanks *must* be produced locally. This will<BR>
> >     require at least a Class III starport, limiting the places "high<BR>
> >     capacity starships" can visit.<BR>
><BR>
> (Note 2: GURPS Class III = Traveller Class C. Curious how Traveller<BR>
> has six basic starport classes and so does GURPS Space. Even more so<BR>
> is how well they line up. Must be coincidence. ;))<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Well, it actually doesnt defeat the purpose. You ship them in on slow, cheap<BR>
ships, and then use them on your jump-6 Express Couriers. Kind of like the<BR>
way you ship jet fuel in tankers, I guess.<BR>
<BR>
> > >  L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost per<BR>
> > >  jump. However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo<BR>
tonnage<BR>
> > >  resulting from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more than<BR>
> > >  makes up for this, the press release explained.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Given the technology, why cant they be made re-usable ?<BR>
<BR>
> > 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
> >     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
> >     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
> >     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
> >     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
> >     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive misjump<BR>
insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew and<BR>
passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
<BR>
> > 5.) As shown above, entrenched shipping interests with large capital<BR>
> >     investments in older ships would be adamantly (and in some cases<BR>
> >     *violently*) opposed to drop-tank technology. Smaller outfits<BR>
> >     would also be threatened.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. You would also get flow ons, as "old tech" ships are forced from Main<BR>
and Feeder routes down into Free Trader back-country runs.<BR>
<BR>
> (Note 3: I wrote this *before* I joined TML, and had no idea the<BR>
> concept of a J-6 X-boat network was being so hotly debated. FWIW, I<BR>
> agree that whatever the long term benefits, the immediate effects<BR>
> would be rather uncomfortable and disruptive to the status quo.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
It isnt really that hotly debated. It's more that the debate has just<BR>
cropped up again.<BR>
<BR>
My personal solution as a GM is to say "Sure. Go ahead. Feel free. You can<BR>
even buy re-usable ones for 10 times the cost. By the way, the expected<BR>
misjump chance is about 1 in 126, with about half of those being lethal".<BR>
<BR>
This means that your Drop Tank Express has an expected life of about 256<BR>
jumps, which at a jump every 10 days means about 8 years before it can<BR>
expect to be lost with all hands in jump space. Have fun with those new<BR>
Return on Investment equations.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, it means you can use Drop Tanks in their proper role,<BR>
which is for deep-penetration missions into enemy space (puts everything<BR>
within 8 parsecs of the border within the range of a jump-4 squadron). Heck,<BR>
the extra 0.5% chance of loss will be rounding error in those sort of<BR>
missions.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:34:13 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Can I also bags Moughas (2406 Regina/Spinward Marches) ?<BR>
<BR>
As a couple have others have got more than one piece of sweet, sweet, can -<BR>
I mean - Spinward Marches, I wanna plunk my big fat pinkie on Moughas as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
What's this - two water worlds? What the hell is he up too......<BR>
<BR>
SEC: Michael*<BR>
<BR>
*It's the only way any TMLers can distinguish me from the other Michaels.<BR>
<BR>
PS Colin, can I post the basic set up to you for a on-the-right-track-or-not<BR>
gander?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:26:36 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in<BR>
> the Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html for them all, or<BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif for the image.<BR>
<BR>
The map of the trade mains could easily be used as propaganda by the<BR>
Solomani...<BR>
<BR>
Nice maps. I really hope you are not generating them by hand :-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:07:39 GMT<BR>
From: Postmark Design Bureau <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures (long again, sorry)<BR>
<BR>
Laning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm leaning towards making this planet balkanized, with several different<BR>
> countries established for the same general purpose, but each country having<BR>
> a set of founders with different views on how to do things.  I welcome<BR>
> specific suggestions and comments about this.<BR>
> <BR>
> >There's actually a contemporary "culture" that could easily evolve into<BR>
> >what you want, given the right stimulus. The stereotypical "nutcase<BR>
> >survivalist".<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey, that might be a good scenario for explaining some high tech, low pop<BR>
> world with an X or D starport.  And they might be spread out very thin and<BR>
> wide because (a) they think its safer that way and/or (b) there are quite a<BR>
> few different cults that don't get along well with each other and need the<BR>
> space between them.<BR>
<BR>
I'd usually think of gov 7 having a few countries with populations in the<BR>
hundred thousands at least, ie decent sized factions that have the capacity<BR>
for a few wars.<BR>
<BR>
I think your description could be much more gov 0 "no government structure.<BR>
In many cases, family bonds predominate."<BR>
<BR>
Types 2, 3 and 4 shouldn't be dismissed, either.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>
"For when your message must get through"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:46:29 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
wow<BR>
<BR>
That is a very impressive map! WOW!<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in the<BR>
> Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html for them all, or<BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif for the image.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:04:15 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I do disagree with your representation of Traveller Careers as<BR>
> Classes, but then we all have our own opinions about things.  For<BR>
> example, in my opinion GURPS is less advanced than Traveller because<BR>
> it doesn't incorporate the disconnected skills into logical<BR>
> professions and/or careers.  Of course, my opinion is no more or<BR>
> less than my opinion. <BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, lets see. I spent two 4-year terms getting a degree in microbiology,<BR>
picking up skills in chemistry, languages, and the assorted other things<BR>
that come with a college liberal arts degree. (see right _there_ Trav<BR>
falls down...not everyone graduates in four years)<BR>
<BR>
Then I spent (counting on fingers)  2 1/2 terms as an analytic chemist,<BR>
gaining skills in instrumental analysis and instrument repair, and<BR>
picking up (thankfully) computer 1 along the way. <BR>
<BR>
Then I blew my re-enlistment roll (grant money ran out, I had a mortgage<BR>
to pay)<BR>
<BR>
So I started playing Reallifer at age 38 and immediately stopped using<BR>
every skill I'd learned except computer-1.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm...I think I'll play Realurps instead. ;-) <BR>
<BR>
The problem is that GURPS lets you design a more 'well-rounded' character<BR>
with known flaws and abilities better than Traveller's more random system.<BR>
<BR>
Why do you think JOT is such a vital skill in Traveller? It actually lets<BR>
people model what _lots_ of them do every day, which is to make it up as<BR>
they go along, synthesizing applicable techniques from their known skills<BR>
to solve problems, that, on the surface, don't seem to be related.<BR>
<BR>
FOEX. Take chemistry and cooking. IN Trav terms they're in _entirely_<BR>
different tracks, chemistry is a Scientist skill, cooking a Steward one.<BR>
But every _good_ chemist I've ever known was a passably good cook, and I<BR>
suspect that if you stuck Emeril Lagasse in a chemistry lab with a<BR>
synthesis scheme, after a bit of training as to which glass bit was which,<BR>
he'd make a good synthetic chemist.<BR>
<BR>
He'd have to go light on the 'BAM!' bit, though, it would make the others<BR>
in the lab a bit nervous ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, this is a bad example, as these would be different skills in<BR>
GURPS as well, but at least in GURPS you could make such a character,<BR>
whereas in Traveller it would be difficult.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:24:00 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
<BR>
Peter Miller <thegolem@mindless.com> wrote,<BR>
>How much are we trying to stand by previously published canon when <BR>
>detailing worlds for the Landgrab?<BR>
<BR>
I'm trying to stick to it as closely as possible while still getting<BR>
believable results (so I'm more likely to change stellar data than<BR>
something mentioned in a TNS article).<BR>
<BR>
I was surprised how much canon material there was for Prilissa! I chose<BR>
it because it was a backwater world with an interesting description in<BR>
BtC, but then found there's published material on it for CT, MT and TNE<BR>
as well.<BR>
<BR>
Two questions for everyone, and an observation:<BR>
<BR>
1. Can someone with Striker II tell me what it has to say about Prilissa<BR>
(or more probably the Kian)? It's referenced in the Regency Sourcebook<BR>
entry but I don't have it.<BR>
<BR>
2. What do we do about using published material in our work? Quoting one<BR>
entry from BtC as the Library Data entry might be "fair use" but if we<BR>
all do it we'll be going beyond both the letter and the spirit of the<BR>
law. I was wondering about using references.<BR>
<BR>
A resource: The Traveller Adventure has maps showing the progress of<BR>
Imperial expansion into the Marches. This will show you when your world<BR>
was settled and roughly when it was incorporated into the Imperium (for<BR>
instance, Prilissa and Leander were both members before 300; Mongo and<BR>
Esalin were settled between 300 and 400 and incorporated by 500). If you<BR>
don't have this, drop me a line and I'll look it up for you.<BR>
<BR>
>I mean, I don't have Behind the Claw, but does it have UWPs (or the <BR>
>GURPS equivalent) for all Spinward Marches worlds? Do they stand by <BR>
>previous UWPs from earlier Traveller material?<BR>
<BR>
It has the equivalent of UWPs, in a more wordy format; these are<BR>
generally faithful to previously-published numbers (once you apply the<BR>
numerous errata). There are apparently some big rewrites of history /<BR>
cultures / planetary details, presumably because the authors didn't have<BR>
access to all pre-existing work.<BR>
<BR>
John <BR>
<BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:12:19 +0100<BR>
From: P-O Bergstedt <zho@berka.com><BR>
Subject: Pirate debate closed?<BR>
<BR>
After 102 votes, the pirate IMTU poll is now closed. <BR>
Is this the end of the pirate debate? <BR>
<BR>
In TATU (The Average Traveller Universe),<BR>
we like having pirates around... <BR>
<BR>
The result was: <BR>
pi++   12.75%<BR>
pi+    55.88%<BR>
pi     24.51%<BR>
pi-     3.92%<BR>
pi--    2.94%<BR>
<BR>
(The new poll is about the K'kree.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  _____         _____   P-O Bergstedt<BR>
 /     \       /     \  Stockholm/SWEDEN<BR>
/ * A o \_____/       \_____<BR>
\   @   /     \       / Visit the Zhodani Base:<BR>
 \BERKA/       \_____/  http://zho.berka.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:23:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: : Re: Clone<BR>
<BR>
At 07:04 PM 3/24/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 13:37 -0500 24/3/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Died 1038<BR>
><BR>
>1138?<BR>
<BR>
Oops, my mistake. The fingers responsible have been sacked.<BR>
<BR>
>>That table was silent for about five minutes.<BR>
><BR>
>Wow. Cool session.<BR>
<BR>
Cool *game* The GM was from Vietnam, and made sure we understood what the<BR>
death of a culture meant. <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2182<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 25 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2183<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Solomani Rim Free Traders(was:Re: More Cool Maps)<BR>
Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
TNE Wilds?<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
Re: OT: Mission to Mars<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
Black Curtain?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:34:03 -0600<BR>
From: Kurt Brown <kurtbrown@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
The MAINS.GIF makes a nice wallpaper. . .<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:34:25<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
At 06:33 AM 3/25/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
>Okay - when rolling for damage - how do you decide which stat it affects?<BR>
<BR>
The first hit is applied to a random characterisitc. After that, the player<BR>
can choose which characterisitc gets smacked.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:39:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
At 05:46 PM 3/24/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in the<BR>
>Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
<BR>
Wow. That's very impressive. The Rim is quite possible the richest area of<BR>
charted space. <BR>
<BR>
Question: Seeing how rich it is out there, would a free trader be a viable<BR>
operation? <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:44:25 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
I have downloaded the program but cannot run it on my p100.<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hi!<BR>
><BR>
> I've just stumbled across another program for showing 3D star maps at:<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7472/<BR>
><BR>
> I don't know how good it is, since for some reason I had a problem with<BR>
> dowloading part of the files, but in the maps archive, there is a<BR>
> "Traveller universe map".<BR>
><BR>
> Does anone know if this program is as good as (or better than?) CHVIEW?<BR>
> (Which can be downloaded at, IIRC, http://members.nova.org/~sol)<BR>
><BR>
> And what about that Traveller map?<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
>   ingo heinscher ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
> ... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:47:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
From: Chauncey Smith <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> CLASSIC D&D has classes only and no skills. This is called a first<BR>
> generation game. As far as the technology of RPG's goes this is a<BR>
> lower tech level then others. That doesn't make the game bad just<BR>
> not advanced in what it can do.<BR>
> Traveller DOES have Classes calling them Careers or racial<BR>
> packages or occupations doesn't change the fact that you have the<BR>
> skills that you have because you are X thing.<BR>
> This makes Traveller a second generation gaming system. It's very<BR>
> flexible and with a game as packed as traveller is very generic as<BR>
> well.<BR>
> GURPS is an example of a skill base system because you don't<BR>
> really have a job person only a group of skills and the fact that you<BR>
> can do X job. This is an example of a 3rd generation system and all<BR>
> the generic systems fall in this category.<BR>
> Now the generations are not hard there is some fuzzy areas. One<BR>
> example of the fuzzy area's is WW Vampire and World of Darkness<BR>
> setting. The vampire types are classes but the skills are free to<BR>
> choose from. so I'd call it about a 2.5 on the scaling that I've<BR>
> presented.<BR>
<BR>
I have one strong disagreement, which stems from the fact that "classes"<BR>
exist to perform a highly specific task. In a game system that uses classes<BR>
a certain set of abilities are given to characters of a certain type, and<BR>
these abilities are not given to characters of other types. The goal of a<BR>
class-based system is to provide party balance at the mechanical level.<BR>
<BR>
To look at it in another way, a class-based system separates the tasks that<BR>
will be required in a typical gaming session and attempts to dole these<BR>
tasks out across various character types. This is done in order to ensure<BR>
that characters generated using this system will need to rely on each other<BR>
at the most basic level of the game, and will continue to rely on each other<BR>
during play.<BR>
<BR>
This is not really the case with the character generation mechanics in the<BR>
Classic Traveller vein (CT, MT and T4). It is possible, for example, to<BR>
generate a military-style character with no abilities that will set him<BR>
apart from a merchant-style character. Although there are paths that a<BR>
player can take in generating characters, and these are "classified", this<BR>
setup is only a superficial similarity to pre-3rd edition *D&D games.<BR>
Careers end with character generation and, from that moment on, characters<BR>
generated in one career all have the same capacity to acquire abilities.<BR>
<BR>
In D&D, characters from two different classes will have wildly differing<BR>
abilities. In Classic Traveller, characters following two different career<BR>
paths may end up with the same abilities, or extremely similar abilities.<BR>
After generation, there is no "need" for different career types to rely on<BR>
each other. A "civilian" character may be significantly better in combat<BR>
than one generated in a "military" career, and that "military" character may<BR>
have a good base of generalized skills, while a "scout" character may only<BR>
have one or two skills useful in specific situations.<BR>
<BR>
Just becayse skills are acquired in the form of "careers", at the time of<BR>
character generation, doesn't indicate that the system is class-based or has<BR>
classes.<BR>
<BR>
Please note that I'm not explicitly stating, nor am I implying, that one<BR>
method is better than another. There are a number of really wonderful things<BR>
to be said about class-based systems (once you get beyond the criticism that<BR>
classes "aren't realistic"), and there are a number of really wonderful<BR>
things to be said about CT style character generation (once you get beyond<BR>
the criticism that there is little "choice" on the part of the players to<BR>
allow them to have the type of character that they want). There's more to a<BR>
class-based system than simply classifying characters during the generation<BR>
process.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:28:16 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:48:06 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:31 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
>> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> <snip><BR>
>>>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
>>>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
><BR>
>Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
>husband. <BR>
<BR>
Right. But, I've never heard of this alleged piercing.<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get <BR>
 used to the idea."                  - Robert A. Heinlein<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:37:24 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:44 25.03.00 -0600, Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I have downloaded the program but cannot run it on my p100.<BR>
<BR>
Just as I wrote: After having been able to run it, I've come to the<BR>
conclusion that it is not worth a dowload, as long as you view at it from a<BR>
Traveller fan POV. Chview does much better, IMHO.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:44:47 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Solomani Rim Free Traders(was:Re: More Cool Maps)<BR>
<BR>
At 08:39 25.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Question: Seeing how rich it is out there, would a free trader be a viable<BR>
>operation? <BR>
<BR>
I'd suppose not. Solomani Rim seems to be a well-developed sector par<BR>
excellance. Probably every little bit of trade is in the hands of a few<BR>
megacorps. <BR>
<BR>
The only Free Traders there *might* be smugglers across the border. Does<BR>
enyone know if GT:RoF will give us some information on this (playtesters?)?<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:52:17 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Adventure ideas in dysfunctional cultures<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 2000 at 15:07 GMT, postmark.design@btinternet.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I'd usually think of gov 7 having a few countries with populations in the<BR>
>hundred thousands at least, ie decent sized factions that have the capacity<BR>
>for a few wars.<BR>
><BR>
>I think your description could be much more gov 0 "no government structure.<BR>
>In many cases, family bonds predominate."<BR>
><BR>
>Types 2, 3 and 4 shouldn't be dismissed, either.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	Sorry, my original post was a bit confusing.  The place that I'd like to<BR>
be gov type 7 is the BDSM planet that was being talked about in the earlier<BR>
part of the post.  Then, I made an extremely awkward transition to talking<BR>
about a different planet, loosely based on "survivalist nutcase cults".<BR>
The survivalist nutcase planet should be *much* easier to write up.  And<BR>
I'm sure you are right about gov type 0, etc for that one.<BR>
<BR>
	Hmm, now you've dropped a gauntlet.  Is there a plausible way to make a<BR>
gov 0, dysfunctional, BDSM nation that's relatively populous..and lasts<BR>
more than a generation or two.  The players should probably be really<BR>
careful in a place that's gov 0, law 0, society itself is falling apart in<BR>
dangerous ways, and the locals are all interested in dominance and pain.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:58:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
<BR>
At 12:10 PM 3/24/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You're not the type to jest like this Leonard, and AFAIK rarely wrong. But I<BR>
>am quite shocked, where did you hear this? How much did it cost? This seems<BR>
>*very* odd.<BR>
<BR>
And very true. Laundry was shipped all the way to Hawaii for servicing.<BR>
<BR>
The way it worked was that locals would by fresh clothes off the recently<BR>
arrived ships, and sell the old, dirty ones cheap. The ship owners would<BR>
make a profit going both waysm since the clothes could be stuffed into<BR>
corners and used to cushion other cargos on the trip out, and brought a<BR>
profit from a run back to SF that noramally would have been empty.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:50:58 +0000<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
>> <snip><BR>
>>>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
>>>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
><BR>
>Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
>husband. <BR>
<BR>
My wife gets to travel more than I do and always tries to find<BR>
interesting souvenirs. Recently she brought back a wonderful 1944 Prince<BR>
Albert ad with a picture of a woman looking adoringly at a "Bob" Dobbs<BR>
clone smoking a pipe. The main slogan was "For your pleasure and<BR>
hers...be sure you've got P.A.".<BR>
<BR>
Neither of us had heard of the tobacco before...<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
<BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:26:09 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: TNE Wilds?<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
Searching through the Galactic databases, I stumbled across worlds with an<BR>
odd allegiance: "Wilds" in the TNE galaxy. While I know generally what TNE<BR>
is and the basics about the Virus, I couldn't find anything about those<BR>
"Wilds".<BR>
<BR>
Can any grognard help me?  <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:58:05 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, John Wood wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes<BR>
> >In mail you write:<BR>
> >> <snip><BR>
> >>>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
> >>>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
> >husband. <BR>
> <BR>
> My wife gets to travel more than I do and always tries to find<BR>
> interesting souvenirs. Recently she brought back a wonderful 1944 Prince<BR>
> Albert ad with a picture of a woman looking adoringly at a "Bob" Dobbs<BR>
> clone smoking a pipe. The main slogan was "For your pleasure and<BR>
> hers...be sure you've got P.A.".<BR>
<BR>
The business manager at the College forwarde me information on a<BR>
fascinating site that is an archive of print advertising. Here's some of<BR>
the info and url: (and that isn't a "Bob" Dobbs clone...I believe that is<BR>
the original artwork that all of the "Bob" Dobbs stuff was taken from, so<BR>
that is JR his very own self...)<BR>
<BR>
There is some fabulous source material at this site, btw, particularly for<BR>
all you artists out there who want to put up billboards, and other print<BR>
ads all over <ahem> the covers of certain role-playing rulebooks. You know<BR>
who you are! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
There are _thousands_ of scanned advertisements here.<BR>
<BR>
forward:<BR>
<BR>
"Ad*Access provides a rich introduction to advertising in the middle of<BR>
the twentieth century and a unique resource for studying advertisements<BR>
online. The John W. Hartman Center<BR>
(http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/hartman) at Duke University is one of the<BR>
nation's pre-eminent programs for the study of sales, advertising, and<BR>
marketing. The Center's mission is to promote understanding of the immense<BR>
cultural impact of these fields by expanding its vast collection of<BR>
textual and multimedia resources and increasing the access to these<BR>
materials by students, scholars, and businesses worldwide.<BR>
<BR>
You can visit the Ad*Access web site at<BR>
<BR>
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/  "<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:06:32 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Hi!<BR>
> <BR>
> Searching through the Galactic databases, I stumbled across worlds with an<BR>
> odd allegiance: "Wilds" in the TNE galaxy. While I know generally what TNE<BR>
> is and the basics about the Virus, I couldn't find anything about those<BR>
> "Wilds".<BR>
> <BR>
> Can any grognard help me?  <BR>
<BR>
Wilds are TNEse for 'Here Be Barbarians', worlds not affiliated with any<BR>
known interstellar polity. This includes known and unknown worlds.<BR>
<BR>
These are worlds, typically, that have fallen to low tech in general, and<BR>
tend to be xenophobic, and often technophobic as well.<BR>
<BR>
Road Warrior-ish places, in other words.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:12:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New Picture Posted / PGMP-12<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/24/00 7:40 AM, Mike Linsenmayer<BR>
mlinsenmayer@symantec.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
<snip picture links etc.><BR>
> Michael Linsenmayer<BR>
<BR>
You are doing some cool stuff there, keep it up! Since you seem to be<BR>
targeting items not often covered, how about: helmets, observational drones,<BR>
civilian vehicles, *scout equipment*, repair/const. tools, high tech toys,<BR>
etc. Or just go hog-wild on a "gizmo" and let /others/ figure out what it<BR>
might be. BTW. I doubt the color of the coins matter much, as far as<BR>
representing value, except for predjudice of the minting culture.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:30:10 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Mission to Mars<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:30:11 EST, Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> It's our here in the US...It's pretty good...I recommend it.<BR>
> <BR>
> S<BR>
> P<BR>
> O<BR>
> I<BR>
> L<BR>
> E<BR>
> R<BR>
> <BR>
> S<BR>
> P<BR>
> A<BR>
> C<BR>
> E<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I think it could have been better. It reminded me a lot of 2001. But it was <BR>
> work the % dollars I paid. I loved the micro meteor scene. I think that would <BR>
> be great in a Traveller Adventure...Maybe with a TL 15 ship but certainly <BR>
> sometime before that.<BR>
<BR>
Pitch Black has a similar scene involving micro meteorites, but with much<BR>
more catastrophic results (that's not much of a spoiler... it happens<BR>
within the first five minutes of the movie).<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I prefer the one in PB.  The one in M2M left me asking a few<BR>
questions (like how the main habitat section of the ship survived a single,<BR>
teeny tiny puncture, while the rest of the ship fared much worse).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
James W. Lindsay             Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay          ICQ: #7521644<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Machine-independent: does not run on any existing machine.<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:34:35 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
At 5:46 PM -0800 3/24/00, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in the<BR>
>Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html for them all, or<BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif for the image.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think it is true you can say that ore and food won't be<BR>
shipped more than 10 parsecs.  If it is cheap enough, then people<BR>
will do it, and that is already covered by the gravity trade<BR>
model.  However, having made up a trade map for a subsector,<BR>
I can understand why you did it I'm not sure you could make up<BR>
such a map without doing it.<BR>
<BR>
I did a map of the Aramis subsector (I cast over to the all the<BR>
adjacent subsectors routes).  I have a main reaching down<BR>
from Vargr space (just to Jesedipere), one from Deneb sector to<BR>
Aramanx, and one from spinward in to Aramanx.   I'm  not sure<BR>
why they are different.  Did you have a way of taking feeder<BR>
routes and adding them up to make a main route?  If not, then<BR>
I think that is the big difference.  Otherwise it might be<BR>
the trade classification thing, thought I think that is going<BR>
to be more minor.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone wants to see my Aramis subsector, let me know.  Or<BR>
I can post it if someone has a place I can put it.  All in<BR>
all, your maps are quite impressive....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:55:24 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Future culture of the 3I (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
>Maybe instead of comparing Imperial culture to US culture, a more valid<BR>
>comparison might be Imperial culture to Earth's culture, if there is such a<BR>
>thing.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Or we could go one step further than that, and compare Human culture to<BR>
Human culture.  Gee willikers... there are similarities! Who'd a thunked it!<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:50:20 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
My only real complaint with Chview is that it doesn't allow for random systems<BR>
or areas of space.  If it did<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:44 25.03.00 -0600, Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >I have downloaded the program but cannot run it on my p100.<BR>
><BR>
> Just as I wrote: After having been able to run it, I've come to the<BR>
> conclusion that it is not worth a dowload, as long as you view at it from a<BR>
> Traveller fan POV. Chview does much better, IMHO.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
>   ingo heinscher ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
> ... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:05:16 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
At 13:50 25.03.00 -0600, Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>My only real complaint with Chview is that it doesn't allow for random<BR>
systems<BR>
>or areas of space.  If it did...<BR>
<BR>
... it would still be a lot of work for a GM to make up the entire TU again<BR>
in 3D. It's IMO a waste of the works of all those fans that made up maps<BR>
before. While I like the idea of 3D in an SF universe, it is extremely hard<BR>
to use such maps at the game table.<BR>
<BR>
<plug><BR>
BTW: There _is_ a way to combine the two ways, 2D and 3D. Imagine: A way to<BR>
explain the 2D maps in Traveller by the nature of jumpspace... Check out<BR>
Freelance Traveller's next update...<BR>
</plug><BR>
<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:06:58 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
<BR>
At 12:06 25.03.00 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Wilds are TNEse for 'Here Be Barbarians', worlds not affiliated with any<BR>
>known interstellar polity. This includes known and unknown worlds.<BR>
><BR>
>These are worlds, typically, that have fallen to low tech in general, and<BR>
>tend to be xenophobic, and often technophobic as well.<BR>
><BR>
>Road Warrior-ish places, in other words.<BR>
<BR>
Aha! Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:08:55 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
At 12:48 AM -0600 3/25/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>On 03/25/00 at 01:30 AM,  Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> said:<BR>
><BR>
>  >As some of you may know from my other post, I am something of a gearhead.<BR>
>  >I sent this article to the rec.games.frp.gurps newsgroup and the<BR>
>  >GURPSnet-l mailing list a little while ago, and since I just joined this<BR>
>  >list I thought I'd avail myself of the expert knowledge and experience<BR>
>  >found here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I've already responded on the GURPSnet list and I didn't say<BR>
anything I haven't said here before so I won't repeat myself<BR>
(is that cheering I hear? :-)<BR>
<BR>
I will just note that the drop tank and "what they hydrogen<BR>
is used for" debates have popped up on the GURPS list all by<BR>
themselves, rather than drifting over from TML.  I guess that<BR>
is a sign that Traveller is becoming accepted as a GURPS<BR>
setting and people are starting to know it well enough to<BR>
start asking these questions...  :-)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:09:34 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:15:39 -0900<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: TFT Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>>At the time they were available I couldn't quite justify buying<BR>
>>the advanced materials. Now I'm kicking myself for my<BR>
>>short-sightedness.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Dave Shayne<BR>
>><BR>
>Contact Bosco's Comics and Games www.boscos.com<BR>
><BR>
>I know they have MOST of the stuff. They found one of their distributors<BR>
>had a stock of TFT stuff... CHEAP! (I paid cover for a few replacement<BR>
>items.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks. I submited a request for the stuff I know I'm missing.<BR>
With luck I'll know if they have them in a few days.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"Now the workers have struck for fame<BR>
   Cuz Lennon's on sale again." D. Bowie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:54:50 +0100<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Black Curtain?<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
On the GURPS NG, there was a question concerning the Empress Wave,<BR>
flipped-out Zhos and a Black Curtain.<BR>
<BR>
I've read everything there, but somehow I don't understand most of it, I'm<BR>
afraid.<BR>
<BR>
When did all that happen? Where is that "Black Curtain"?<BR>
<BR>
In short: What's the story?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
For Iridium Throne and glory!<BR>
  ingo heinscher ;-)                          <BR>
<BR>
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!<BR>
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 25 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2184<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Striker II referance (was Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?)<BR>
re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim Free Traders(was:Re: More Cool Maps)<BR>
Re: Striker II referance (was Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?)<BR>
Re: Black Curtain?<BR>
Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Why *NOT* drop tanks?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
Re: Arlo's Alice<BR>
Everything Old is New Again<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:08:59 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
Amen<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ... it would still be a lot of work for a GM to make up the entire TU again<BR>
> in 3D. It's IMO a waste of the works of all those fans that made up maps<BR>
> before. While I like the idea of 3D in an SF universe, it is extremely hard<BR>
> to use such maps at the game table.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:21:41 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Striker II referance (was Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:24:00 +0000<BR>
>From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>1. Can someone with Striker II tell me what it has to say about Prilissa<BR>
>(or more probably the Kian)? It's referenced in the Regency Sourcebook<BR>
>entry but I don't have it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Flipping through Striker II I can't find a referance to either. Does the RS<BR>
give page numbers? If not it might take a while for me to find what your<BR>
looking for.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"Now the workers have struck for fame<BR>
    cuz Lennon's on sale again." - David Bowie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:33:59 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:33:55 +1100<BR>
>From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
><BR>
>Okay - when rolling for damage - how do you decide which stat it affects?<BR>
<BR>
Assuming you use CT or T4:<BR>
<BR>
We'll assume Joe P. Average 777___<BR>
takes a 6d rifle hit.<BR>
Roll the 6d: get 2,3,4,5,3,5 on the dice<BR>
for each die of damage, apply it to a randomly chosen physical attribute,<BR>
using an extra die to randomize: 1-2 Str, 3-4 Dex, 5-6 End<BR>
<BR>
pick the first die: a 2, and roll an extra die: it comes up a 3, thus dex.<BR>
Current is now 757___<BR>
Pick the second die: a 3. Randomize for attribute, roll is a 2, apply it to<BR>
Strength. Now 457___<BR>
3rd die is a 4: apply it with attribute randomization roll of 4, to Dex.<BR>
Now 417<BR>
4th die is a 5.Allocation die is a 2. Goes to strength. Excess points are<BR>
lost, so now 017. Strength can take no more damage. So allocation now goes<BR>
to rolls of 1-3: Dex, 4-6: End<BR>
5th die is a 3, allocation die is a 1. Remember, STR is at 0, so we have a<BR>
low roll, and thus dex. Again, the excess is lost. So now we have 007___<BR>
the final die is a 5, and there is only one non-zero attribute: End. So it<BR>
autoapplies to end. Now 002<BR>
<BR>
At 002___, che character is unconscious, and will be for a while, and needs<BR>
medical attention.<BR>
<BR>
Now, under MT, the process is similar, but is not done immediately.<BR>
You use the hits track, until the adrenaline has a chance to wear off, THEN<BR>
for each Hit taken, you apply 1d in the above manner... so 6 1hit attacks<BR>
are resolved exactly like 1 6hit attack....<BR>
<BR>
Allocation of damage<BR>
roll	3>0	St@0	Dex@0	End@0	2@0		3@0<BR>
1-2	Str	Dex	Str	Str	remaining	Dead<BR>
3	Dex	Dex	Str	Str	remaining	dead<BR>
4	Dex	End	End	Dex	remaining	dead<BR>
5-6	end	End	End	Dex	remaining	dead<BR>
<BR>
Now, there was an option from Traveller's Digest, which pointed out that<BR>
special hits might be allowed to apply damage to Int or Edu. These would be<BR>
PURELY a GM call.... but could be used toprevent a PC from dying.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:36:46 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>Minor question of mine...Let's say you have a 2d+2 weapon (whether<BR>
>from strength of armor or whatever). Do you apply it like this...<BR>
><BR>
>1d<BR>
>1d<BR>
>1 pip<BR>
>1 pip<BR>
><BR>
>...or like this?<BR>
><BR>
>1d<BR>
>1d<BR>
>2 pips<BR>
<BR>
I use the latter for +1 to +3, but groups of +4 or more get broken down...<BR>
<BR>
Under T4, however, ISTR that if the pips are from dice reduced by armor,<BR>
they are simply treated as dice which rolled 1's, and would use the former.<BR>
<BR>
MT never encounters this problem.... <EFG><GD&R><BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:16:39 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 09:04 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> I do disagree with your representation of Traveller Careers as<BR>
>> Classes, but then we all have our own opinions about things.  For<BR>
>> example, in my opinion GURPS is less advanced than Traveller because<BR>
>> it doesn't incorporate the disconnected skills into logical<BR>
>> professions and/or careers.  <BR>
<BR>
Bruce, you know me...all rules are just guidelines.  <g> So, I<BR>
actually think your career description, below, reinforces my<BR>
opinion rather than refuting it.<BR>
<BR>
>Hmmm, lets see. I spent two 4-year terms getting a degree in<BR>
>microbiology, picking up skills in chemistry, languages, and the assorted<BR>
>other things that come with a college liberal arts degree. (see right<BR>
>_there_ Trav falls down...not everyone graduates in four years)<BR>
<BR>
So, you entered college and spent *2* terms there.  That's not in<BR>
the rules as written, but if the player asked me for it and had a<BR>
good IC explanation, I'd let them do it.  Heck, Derek, just asked if<BR>
he could have variable length terms (1d6 each) and we worked it<BR>
out...so maybe you rolled on a d8, or d10, instead of a d6.  <g><BR>
<BR>
You learned a number of "skills" during your time in college, but<BR>
the utility of those skills may or may not be useful in later<BR>
life...just like Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
>Then I spent (counting on fingers)  2 1/2 terms as an analytic chemist,<BR>
>gaining skills in instrumental analysis and instrument repair, and<BR>
>picking up (thankfully) computer 1 along the way. <BR>
<BR>
Okay, that would be the Scientist or Academic career (from the next<BR>
paragraph it looks like Academic).  You weren't a PhD, so you were<BR>
probably following the "enlisted" or technician track, rather than<BR>
the "officer" or professorial track.  And again you picked up<BR>
skills, some more useful than others...just like Traveller.  <g><BR>
<BR>
>Then I blew my re-enlistment roll (grant money ran out, I had a mortgage<BR>
>to pay)<BR>
<BR>
>So I started playing Reallifer at age 38 and immediately stopped using<BR>
>every skill I'd learned except computer-1.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe, but then again, maybe you got a branch transfer in your<BR>
Academic career (you're still working for the U of A, right?), or<BR>
might have entered some other career...Computer career, or<BR>
something.  IAC, very few of your previously learned skills helped<BR>
you, but you did enhance a few and add some new ones...just like<BR>
Traveller.  <bg><BR>
<BR>
And, no, I won't grant that you're "in the game" into you find a<BR>
Starport to start your adventure.  At *that* point, we'll see which<BR>
(if any) of your skills prove useful. <weg><BR>
<BR>
>Hmmm...I think I'll play Realurps instead. ;-) <BR>
<BR>
Well, maybe, but my point was that you simply can't always pick what<BR>
skills you are going to learn, and you can't know, in advance, which<BR>
ones might end up being useful.  So, I still think that in the hands<BR>
of a creative player and flexible GM the Traveller Career method<BR>
produces better (that's opinion, of course) characters. Remember I<BR>
said this was IMO, so don't think I'm *attacking* other methods.<BR>
<BR>
>The problem is that GURPS lets you design a more 'well-rounded' character<BR>
>with known flaws and abilities better than Traveller's more random<BR>
>system.<BR>
<BR>
That's true, if that's your goal.  In the hands of a knowledgeable<BR>
and mature player with a good character concept, and with the<BR>
support of a strong and knowledgeable GM you certainly *can* design<BR>
wonderful characters with GURPS.  OTOH...GURPS is like the little<BR>
girl with the little curl.<BR>
<BR>
>Why do you think JOT is such a vital skill in Traveller? It actually lets<BR>
>people model what _lots_ of them do every day, which is to make it up as<BR>
>they go along, synthesizing applicable techniques from their known skills<BR>
>to solve problems, that, on the surface, don't seem to be related.<BR>
<BR>
True, again, but as you know, I'm not enthused about JOT.  OTOH, I<BR>
*do* like the idea of "everyman" or default skills.  Sure, people<BR>
have enough basic knowledge to try a lot more things than they have<BR>
listed on their character sheets..harder for them, but Easy and<BR>
Routine tasks should be accomplishable, and that's with or without a<BR>
JOT skill.  Frankly, I'd say *that* doesn't deviate from the spirit<BR>
of how Traveller handles non-listed skills either, especially with a<BR>
flexible GM.<BR>
<BR>
>FOEX. Take chemistry and cooking. IN Trav terms they're in _entirely_<BR>
>different tracks, chemistry is a Scientist skill, cooking a Steward one.<BR>
>But every _good_ chemist I've ever known was a passably good cook, and I<BR>
>suspect that if you stuck Emeril Lagasse in a chemistry lab with a<BR>
>synthesis scheme, after a bit of training as to which glass bit was<BR>
>which, he'd make a good synthetic chemist.<BR>
<BR>
>He'd have to go light on the 'BAM!' bit, though, it would make the others<BR>
>in the lab a bit nervous ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Okay.  <g> Notice Ricardo (from the PBEM Bruce is in) doesn't have a<BR>
"cooking" skill listed, but we both know he can cook.  Just because<BR>
the skill isn't listed doesn't mean he has *no* skill in that area.<BR>
However, who *normally* does the cooking?  Ricardo?  No, one of the<BR>
characters with Steward, but that doesn't mean Ricardo *can't* cook.<BR>
It just means Shawn or Wolfgang has more experience in cooking.  <BR>
<BR>
If Ricardo keeps cooking, just his chili, he won't improve, but if<BR>
he branches out, reads a book or two and tries some new dishes he<BR>
might get a Cooking-0..or higher..on his character sheet.  Even so,<BR>
next time your party needs to mix up a serum who do you think will<BR>
have a better chance of succeeding fastest and with fewest errors?<BR>
Ricardo, with no chemistry skill levels, or Dr. Mira, *with*<BR>
chemistry skill?  <g><BR>
<BR>
To be honest, I don't think either GURPS or Traveller is better or<BR>
worse at *this* particular aspect of gaming.  IMO, it's the players<BR>
and GM that really make the difference.<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, this is a bad example, as these would be different skills in<BR>
>GURPS as well, but at least in GURPS you could make such a character,<BR>
>whereas in Traveller it would be difficult.<BR>
<BR>
Gee, I just don't agree!  Okay, if you adhere strictly to the<BR>
*rules*, you're probably right, but I don't...so I don't. <shrug>  <BR>
<BR>
Besides, it brings up a difference in style between players.<BR>
<BR>
Some want to really detail their characters *before* play begins,<BR>
know *everything* about them they can.  You can tell these players<BR>
because they are going to produce detailed and, often, very long<BR>
background stories for their character.  The Design At Start (DAS)<BR>
player.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, some players don't want that kind of detail before the game<BR>
begins.  They just want to know the basic strengths and weaknesses,<BR>
of their character and a little general information about their<BR>
background.  It's *during* play that they will get to know their<BR>
character and discover over time that he can cook, likes to carve,<BR>
has a absolute fear of spiders, and a sister in the President's<BR>
Office of some system.  The Design In Play (DIP) player.<BR>
<BR>
Neither style is better or worse in a general sense, but for the<BR>
individual player it can make the difference between feeling "lost"<BR>
and feeling "straightjacketed" in their role.  It's my opinion that<BR>
a *good* game (and a good GM) will accomidate both sorts of players.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm in the second group.  When I don't have a group to<BR>
play with, I can use the Traveller Career system to actually *play*<BR>
out the career of characters.  That's fun for me, I'm designing them<BR>
as I play them, and it's not really the randomness that is the fun,<BR>
it's the progression through time that is fun for me.  When I *do*<BR>
have a group I can gen up a character quickly and use the rough and<BR>
general information from the career system to get me started, then<BR>
learn about the character as he has adventures.  I just don't get<BR>
the same satisfaction from "spend your points" systems.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I like the concept of Advantages (Gifts) and Disadvantages<BR>
(Faults) in GURPS/CORPS/FUDGE, etc.  Being a DIP, <g>, I would be<BR>
more likely to implement the concept *during* play rather than<BR>
during pre-play character generation, and if you'll notice from what<BR>
I wrote above it's skills *and* gifts/faults that the player learns<BR>
about during play.  I'd love to see Traveller incorporate gifts and<BR>
faults acquired during the years of pre-play character generation.<BR>
Not over do it, but adding a little variety and spice, and yes a<BR>
little of that is already there in medals, awards, contacts and so<BR>
on.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, well!  This sort of thing is one of *my* hobby horses, so I need<BR>
to be careful not to run on and on.  Others get off on piracy,<BR>
Virus, or drop tank debates...for me it's character generation and<BR>
task systems.  <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:30:39 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Free Traders(was:Re: More Cool Maps)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de> writes:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:39 25.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Question: Seeing how rich it is out there, would a free trader be a viable<BR>
> >operation? <BR>
> <BR>
> I'd suppose not. Solomani Rim seems to be a well-developed sector par<BR>
> excellance. Probably every little bit of trade is in the hands of a few<BR>
> megacorps. <BR>
> <BR>
> The only Free Traders there *might* be smugglers across the border. Does<BR>
> enyone know if GT:RoF will give us some information on this (playtesters?)?<BR>
<BR>
Will I do?  :-)<BR>
<BR>
My take on this is that there will *always* be room for<BR>
a few free traders in any given area.  There's always a<BR>
few small cargoes that (for whatever reason) need to be<BR>
shipped *right now* instead of waiting for the next<BR>
megafreighter.  And then there are the shipments that<BR>
have to take an odd route, cross a border, move in<BR>
secrecy, use special handling, or something.  I imagine<BR>
that smuggling is sometimes easier when you're not using<BR>
a 10,000-dton megafreighter, too.<BR>
<BR>
If you look at the tables in _Far Trader_, you'll see<BR>
that the amount of cargo "available to free traders"<BR>
climbs with the level of trade, then levels off -- but<BR>
it never falls back to zero.<BR>
<BR>
So there will be free traders on the Rim,but they'll<BR>
be small players, and they'll probably have to compete<BR>
pretty hard for those special cargoes.  There probably<BR>
won't be any more of them on the Rim than in a more<BR>
frontier-like region such as the Marches.<BR>
<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler<BR>
JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:53:31 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker II referance (was Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: DaveShayne <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 4:21 PM<BR>
Subject: Striker II referance (was Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:24:00 +0000<BR>
>>From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
>>Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
><BR>
><snip><BR>
><BR>
>>1. Can someone with Striker II tell me what it has to say about Prilissa<BR>
>>(or more probably the Kian)? It's referenced in the Regency Sourcebook<BR>
>>entry but I don't have it.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Flipping through Striker II I can't find a referance to either. Does the RS<BR>
>give page numbers? If not it might take a while for me to find what your<BR>
>looking for.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Correction I've found a TO&E chart for a Kidan Armored Cavalry Battalion.<BR>
no other info as far as I can see but I'm still looking.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"Now the workers have struck for fame<BR>
    cuz Lennon's on sale again." - David Bowie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:56:29 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 09:54 PM,  Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de> said:<BR>
<BR>
>On the GURPS NG, there was a question concerning the Empress Wave,<BR>
>flipped-out Zhos and a Black Curtain.<BR>
<BR>
>I've read everything there, but somehow I don't understand most of it,<BR>
>I'm afraid.<BR>
<BR>
Be very, *very* afraid! <g><BR>
<BR>
>When did all that happen? Where is that "Black Curtain"?<BR>
<BR>
These are TNEisms.  None of the above may exist in GT, however, the<BR>
first two *might* depending on how you (and Loren) play out events<BR>
in your games.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Empress Wave --<BR>
<BR>
The Empress Wave appears to be a slower than light phenomenon<BR>
originating from the direction of the galactic core.  The effects of<BR>
the wave were observed by Researchers associated with Project<BR>
Longbow II, and this was the reason Stephron was absent from Capital<BR>
during Dulinor's assassination of the Imperial family.  Stephron<BR>
was, secretly, at one of the Longbow stations receiving a report on<BR>
"the flipped out Zhos", to use your expression.<BR>
<BR>
Something is causing great disruptions in Zhodani society.  That<BR>
something is *probably* psionic in nature, and appears to be<BR>
moving...like a wave...through the Zhodani Empire from core toward<BR>
rim.  Exactly what it is or does is unknown, but there is evidence<BR>
of mass movements of Zhodani populations and military assets.  I<BR>
think there is some evidence of space battles (maybe Civil War,<BR>
maybe not) deep within Zhodani space.<BR>
<BR>
The reason this phenomenon is called the Empress Wave is that<BR>
Stephron had a dream (perhaps vision) of a woman holding a staff<BR>
standing in front of a destroyed city...she's on the cover of the<BR>
TNE book.  I *think* others at Longbow had similar visions, but I'm<BR>
not *sure* about that.  IAC, she was dubbed "The Empress" and the<BR>
phenomenon was dubbed "The Empress Wave."<BR>
<BR>
If this wave exists IYTU, it should be approaching the coreward<BR>
borders of the Third Imperium by 1200.  The Zhodani movements and<BR>
disruptions would, even if the Wave's actual effect outside the<BR>
Zhodani was nil, slop over into the Imperium.  There would be<BR>
increased chances of war, incursions, refugee movements, and who<BR>
knows what.  If the Wave's effects *did* affect the citizens of the<BR>
Imperium then it could be even worse. It could be a disaster!<BR>
<BR>
I think discovering what this "Wave" was and how to mitigate it's<BR>
effects on the Imperium was a Class A priority for Stephron.  It was<BR>
also something that needed to remain secret until more information<BR>
was gained.  That's why he was there in secret when Dulinor's attack<BR>
came down. <BR>
<BR>
In the GT timeline, there is no Dulinor attack.  There is also no<BR>
official word about the Empress Wave. Perhaps it doesn't exist.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Black Curtain --<BR>
<BR>
Or "Here there be monsters!"<BR>
<BR>
After Virus was released civilization collapsed quickly all over the<BR>
Imperium, but by 1200, the beginning of TNE, the general outlines of<BR>
what was left were made apparent to the *GM's* running TNE games.<BR>
This outline is shown in the map in the TNE book.  There was a<BR>
"pocket empire" client of the Hivers, the Reformation Coalition,<BR>
there was a sub-domain sized "Regency" of Imperium-like civilization<BR>
in the Spinward Marches, and there were a few small pocket empires<BR>
scattered around (including one at Sol).  Most of the rest of<BR>
charted space was "Wilds"...that is, unknown, but generally dead,<BR>
regressed to pre-space levels, and occasionally infested with Viral<BR>
strains.<BR>
<BR>
Then there was a "black curtain" drawn on the map encompassing<BR>
Capital and dozens of parsecs around it.  What was inside the "black<BR>
curtain" was *not* detailed in the original book.  We were told that<BR>
it was going to be developed by GDW as they spun out the TNE story.<BR>
Later there were hints that this was a "Virus Empire", and that has<BR>
become the accepted version of what is in there, but the truth is WE<BR>
DON'T REALLY KNOW what's back there.<BR>
<BR>
It is unlikely the TNE timeline will be officially followed up, so<BR>
IMO, whatever is behind the "black curtain" is whatever the<BR>
individual GM wants to put there.  Maybe it's a partnership between<BR>
Virus and the K'kree...borg'kreee anyone? <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:58:57 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The TML 2000 Landgrab<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:11:41 -0500 (EST),<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Here's that list of old RICE and BARD Papers that I culled from the TML a few<BR>
>(!) years ago. Notice the way some people took areas, eg. Chris Griffen did the<BR>
>Rhylanor Cluster, Mick Bailey the Jewell Group, etc. This makes for a consistent<BR>
>history of those spots.<BR>
<BR>
>Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
>Capon (Lunion/Spinward Marches 2324) - Doug Berry, Nov 1995<BR>
>Efate (Regina/Spinward Marches 1803) - Alvin Plummer, Sep 1995<BR>
>Emerald (Jewell/Spinward Marches 1106) - Michael Bailey, Oct 1995<BR>
>Gerome (Rhylanor/Spinward Marches 2818) - Lewis Roberts, Nov 1995<BR>
>Glisten - apart from DGP, who took this, Jeff?<BR>
<BR>
I wrote that RICE Paper all by my lonesome.  I simply used the<BR>
DGP process to expand the basic UWP enough to write the paper.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:58:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> FOEX. Take chemistry and cooking. IN Trav terms they're in _entirely_<BR>
> different tracks, chemistry is a Scientist skill, cooking a Steward one.<BR>
> But every _good_ chemist I've ever known was a passably good cook, and I<BR>
> suspect that if you stuck Emeril Lagasse in a chemistry lab with a<BR>
> synthesis scheme, after a bit of training as to which glass bit was which,<BR>
> he'd make a good synthetic chemist.<BR>
><BR>
> He'd have to go light on the 'BAM!' bit, though, it would make the others<BR>
> in the lab a bit nervous ;-)<BR>
<BR>
He'd also have to quit tasting his "recipes". Of course, it took<BR>
generations before *chemists* learned that was a bad idea...<BR>
<BR>
And for that matter, if you goes into explosives chemistry, he can<BR>
*make* the BAM! rather than just *say* it. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:04:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why *NOT* drop tanks?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 25 Mar 2000 at 01:30 (GMT -0500), dalton.spence@hwcn.org wrote:<BR>
>>Subject: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
> <<<SNIP>>><BR>
> <<<SNIP>>><BR>
> <<<SNIP>>><BR>
>         Heh, it's not long anymore, LOL.  :-><BR>
><BR>
>         Wow, great crosspost, Dalton.  Thanks.  Lots of handy info, and very<BR>
> timely to the threads on the TML too.  That was very cool.  I also enjoyed<BR>
> the Firesign Theatre "Department of Redundancy Depart" reference.  All hail<BR>
> Lennon & Marx....er all hail Firesign Theatre.<BR>
><BR>
>         Were long term jump capacitors added in GT, or which version?  It's a<BR>
> pretty neatly done handwave.<BR>
><BR>
>     What's this about "...a minor Vilani subject race crashed on Terra circa<BR>
> -2574 Imperial."?  I must have missed something.<BR>
<BR>
The "subject race is kinda short, greyish skin, with *big* eyes. I<BR>
think the crash site was someplace called "Rose Wells"? Something like<BR>
that.. <BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:08:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2165<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 12:10 PM 3/24/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>You're not the type to jest like this Leonard, and AFAIK rarely wrong. But I<BR>
>>am quite shocked, where did you hear this? How much did it cost? This seems<BR>
>>*very* odd.<BR>
><BR>
> And very true. Laundry was shipped all the way to Hawaii for servicing.<BR>
><BR>
> The way it worked was that locals would by fresh clothes off the recently<BR>
> arrived ships, and sell the old, dirty ones cheap. The ship owners would<BR>
> make a profit going both waysm since the clothes could be stuffed into<BR>
> corners and used to cushion other cargos on the trip out, and brought a<BR>
> profit from a run back to SF that noramally would have been empty.<BR>
<BR>
And GMs should draw a lesson from this. <BR>
<BR>
*NOTHING* is "too weird" to happen if someone can see a way to make a<BR>
profit from it!<BR>
<BR>
Alas, it's the *players* that usually come up with the weird stuff like<BR>
this, simply because there are *more* of them, and because they are<BR>
more "motivated" (their characters *need* profits, the GM can just hand<BR>
money to NPCs).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:12:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Arlo's Alice<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The worst bit (IMO) is that the transcription makes no attempt to portray<BR>
> Arlo's pronounciation of "massacre", which is something like "mass-a-cree""<BR>
<BR>
Ever see the "video" of it?<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav Joke: The destruction a large number of K'Kree is a massak'kree<BR>
<BR>
Sensors report a ship coming out of jump with a *high* velocity towards<BR>
the planet, It's launching thousands of small objects. Omigod! They're<BR>
*PENGUINS*! <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:31:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Everything Old is New Again<BR>
<BR>
Well, now we have confirmation that the GURPS list has discovered both Drop <BR>
Tanks and the Empress Wave.  Can Piracy, Near-C Rocks (or lifeboats) or <BR>
female Aslan in comfortable shoes be far behind?<BR>
<BR>
It sounds like someone needs to post the FAQ(s) there, and/or set up a <BR>
pointer to a site where they can be found...<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair    "You know, Brink, you've been acting funny ever since<BR>
kellys@efn.org     you came back from the dead.  (I can't believe I just<BR>
                    said that.)"    -- Commander Boston Low, THE DIG<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:12:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
I have no personal preference for either system I was merely presenting an<BR>
standard in which games can be compared or talked about. Occupational<BR>
Classes is a standard of alot of role playing games that takes place in the<BR>
modern setting e.g. Any thing but swords and socercy. So the fact that a<BR>
system has Career Classes doesn't make a system bad it's just part the<BR>
mechanics of the game like if a car has carburetor or is full injected.<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 1:40 AM<BR>
Subject: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On 03/25/00 at 12:33 AM,  "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>CLASSIC D&D has classes only and no skills. This is called a first<BR>
>>generation game. As far as the technology of RPG's goes this is a lower<BR>
>>tech level then others. That doesn't make the game bad just not advanced<BR>
>>in what it can do.<BR>
><BR>
>>Traveller DOES have Classes calling them Careers or racial packages or<BR>
>>occupations doesn't change the fact that you have the skills that you<BR>
>>have because you are X thing.<BR>
><BR>
>>This makes Traveller a second generation gaming system. It's very<BR>
>>flexible and with a game as packed as traveller is very generic as well.<BR>
>>GURPS is an example of a skill base system because you don't really have<BR>
>>a job person only a group of skills and the fact that you can do X job.<BR>
>>This is an example of a 3rd generation system and all the generic systems<BR>
>>fall in this category.<BR>
><BR>
>Let me guess...you like GURPS, right?  Not that there's anything<BR>
>wrong with that!  <g><BR>
><BR>
>I do disagree with your representation of Traveller Careers as<BR>
>Classes, but then we all have our own opinions about things.  For<BR>
>example, in my opinion GURPS is less advanced than Traveller because<BR>
>it doesn't incorporate the disconnected skills into logical<BR>
>professions and/or careers.  Of course, my opinion is no more or<BR>
>less than my opinion.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
>--<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2184<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2185</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 25 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 2185<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
World Write Up<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Legal Systems in RPGs<BR>
Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Corporations active in District 268/Five Sisters<BR>
Re: songs<BR>
Re: Alleged Piercing<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
DGP-GDW taped seminars<BR>
Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:01:57 +1100<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: World Write Up<BR>
<BR>
Hey dudes, I did a system write up for the landgrab which has been very<BR>
nicely posted by colin to the landgrab site. I'd be interested in opinions.<BR>
<BR>
BTW It's a bit of a beige system - which I shall endevour to change at some<BR>
point.<BR>
<BR>
I think it is at www.downport.com/landgrab. The system is Moughas.<BR>
<BR>
Bring it on.<BR>
<BR>
SEC: Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:17:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ... it would still be a lot of work for a GM to make up the entire TU again<BR>
> in 3D. It's IMO a waste of the works of all those fans that made up maps<BR>
> before. While I like the idea of 3D in an SF universe, it is extremely hard<BR>
> to use such maps at the game table.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it can be made fairly easy to *use* but only at the cost of<BR>
making the map very time consuming to *build*. I can think of a couple<BR>
of ways to do it. I came up with the first one a long time ago. I just<BR>
thought of the second one, and I think it's better, because it allows<BR>
"folding" the map more or less flat when not in use...<BR>
<BR>
Yes, both methods consist of building a 3d *model*. The first idea was<BR>
sticking beads on lengths of wire mounted in a wooden or plastic base. <BR>
<BR>
The second consists of hanging them by threads from a piece of stiff<BR>
screening, which you hang from a ceiling lamp of some such. <BR>
<BR>
For extra points use tiny LEDs instead of beads, and run the wires to a<BR>
control unit so you can light up any star or stars at will. That'd make<BR>
IDing stars easier, as well as visualizing routes.<BR>
<BR>
Like I said, a *lot* of work. But it migh be worth it to see the look<BR>
on your players' faces when you show them the "map". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:42:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:48:06 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:31 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
>>> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> <snip><BR>
>>>>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
>>>>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
>>husband. <BR>
><BR>
> Right. But, I've never heard of this alleged piercing.<BR>
<BR>
It really *is* a common piercing of the male genitalia. I'm sure that<BR>
several others on the list can back me up on this. Whether the Prince<BR>
actually had one, and if so, if it was for the reason usually given the<BR>
the stories explaining the name, nobody knows.<BR>
<BR>
It *is* one of the few piercings that actually had a "practical" use. <BR>
<BR>
And I *really* doubt that you are interested in the details... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:47:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> >     a - Feed the long storage jump capacitor (LSJC).<BR>
><BR>
> This is my big problem with the idea of drop tanks - if we have some sort of<BR>
> new high capacity capacitor, then on behalf of Famile Spofulam, I want the<BR>
> full technical specs to allow a radical reduction in the size of our<BR>
> Particle Accelerator Weapon systems. Energy is energy, right ?<BR>
<BR>
Not necessarily. <BR>
<BR>
Personally, I dislike the "capacitor" and "zuchai crystal" setups<BR>
because I've *seen* the way some players abuse them. They had warships<BR>
that had them everywhere they could spare the space. The only good<BR>
thing was when they managed to get one of a group of these overpowered<BR>
nightmares too close to a blast. So the black globe failed, so the<BR>
"capacitors" were destroyed, releasing all *their* energy, which as<BR>
more than enough to "touch off" the LH2 in the tanks in a fusion blast...<BR>
<BR>
The combined energy of this from the first ship managed to "chain<BR>
reaction" the rest of their "fleet" (a dozen or so ships). And released<BR>
such an obscene amount of energy that... well, let's just say that the<BR>
planet they were orbiting wasn't in very good shape...<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, drop tanksd strike me as quite reasonable. Of<BR>
course, I'm a "fuel is all used up initiating the jump" person. <BR>
<BR>
>> > >  L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost per<BR>
>> > >  jump. However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo<BR>
> tonnage<BR>
>> > >  resulting from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more than<BR>
>> > >  makes up for this, the press release explained.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
> Given the technology, why cant they be made re-usable ?<BR>
<BR>
Yeah. All they need is to be picked up, and probably refurbished a bit.<BR>
If after that, they fail the re-cert test, they are sold as scrap. <BR>
<BR>
I expect that "failed re-cert" drop tanks get used for all sorts of<BR>
things. They are probably ok for storing LH2 or LOX at "mining camps"<BR>
in the belt. If big enough, I expect that some get turned into living<BR>
quarters or storage modules. <BR>
<BR>
And on world with significant hydro, some wind up on world being used<BR>
as "floats" or as boat hulls (this is done with *aircraft* drop<BR>
tanks!). <BR>
<BR>
And, if all else fails, they are worth something as scrap metal.<BR>
<BR>
So I can just about guarantee that in even semi-developed systems,<BR>
there will be somebody hanging around near the 100 dia limit and<BR>
waiting for traffic control to let him go in and pick up the dropped<BR>
tanks. <BR>
<BR>
Note that while hitting one is unlikely, the folks at traffic control<BR>
will be a lot happier if they get picked up. <BR>
<BR>
>> > 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
>> >     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
>> >     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
>> >     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
>> >     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
>> >     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
><BR>
> I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive misjump<BR>
> insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew and<BR>
> passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
<BR>
The odds of being found are *way* too low. If you land in a system,<BR>
that's one thing. If you (much more likely) land in an empty hex, it's<BR>
going to take 3.26 years *minimum* for your signal to reach a system<BR>
(and that's assuming that there's one within one hex). And the odds of<BR>
it being *noticed* are low, even if it *is* an inhabited system. <BR>
<BR>
Lets say you have a megawatt transmitter. At one parsec, it's going to<BR>
be down to 84e-12 *picowatts* per square kilometer... Nobody is going<BR>
to hear that over background noise unless they've got a *major* radio<BR>
telescope aimed right at you.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:34:30 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Legal Systems in RPGs<BR>
<BR>
I just read an interesting article on legal systems in roleplaying<BR>
games.  I found it at:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.gamingoutpost.com/features/previews/ptgptb/mjyoung1.shtml<BR>
<BR>
Articles #2 and #3 of the series can be found at:<BR>
<BR>
http://ptgptb.humbug.org.au/issue-index.html<BR>
<BR>
Article #2 is in Issue 11, and Article #3 is in Issue 12.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:27:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
I believe games have a technology all their own. As such it should be able<BR>
to talk about it in the same way as you talk about automobiles. I believe<BR>
that the Classes in a second generation system like Traveller or other games<BR>
like it. Yes you can create cross over characters but they do have classes<BR>
even if it's the mustering out benefits are different.<BR>
I believe that Classes in a general since only means that you're given<BR>
different choices in skills and have different options open to you. it<BR>
doesn't have to be some way of doing things just choices and options.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 11:49 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I have one strong disagreement, which stems from the fact that "classes"<BR>
>exist to perform a highly specific task. In a game system that uses classes<BR>
>a certain set of abilities are given to characters of a certain type, and<BR>
>these abilities are not given to characters of other types. The goal of a<BR>
>class-based system is to provide party balance at the mechanical level.<BR>
><BR>
>To look at it in another way, a class-based system separates the tasks that<BR>
>will be required in a typical gaming session and attempts to dole these<BR>
>tasks out across various character types. This is done in order to ensure<BR>
>that characters generated using this system will need to rely on each other<BR>
>at the most basic level of the game, and will continue to rely on each<BR>
other<BR>
>during play.<BR>
><BR>
>This is not really the case with the character generation mechanics in the<BR>
>Classic Traveller vein (CT, MT and T4). It is possible, for example, to<BR>
>generate a military-style character with no abilities that will set him<BR>
>apart from a merchant-style character. Although there are paths that a<BR>
>player can take in generating characters, and these are "classified", this<BR>
>setup is only a superficial similarity to pre-3rd edition *D&D games.<BR>
>Careers end with character generation and, from that moment on, characters<BR>
>generated in one career all have the same capacity to acquire abilities.<BR>
><BR>
>In D&D, characters from two different classes will have wildly differing<BR>
>abilities. In Classic Traveller, characters following two different career<BR>
>paths may end up with the same abilities, or extremely similar abilities.<BR>
>After generation, there is no "need" for different career types to rely on<BR>
>each other. A "civilian" character may be significantly better in combat<BR>
>than one generated in a "military" career, and that "military" character<BR>
may<BR>
>have a good base of generalized skills, while a "scout" character may only<BR>
>have one or two skills useful in specific situations.<BR>
><BR>
>Just becayse skills are acquired in the form of "careers", at the time of<BR>
>character generation, doesn't indicate that the system is class-based or<BR>
has<BR>
>classes.<BR>
><BR>
>Please note that I'm not explicitly stating, nor am I implying, that one<BR>
>method is better than another. There are a number of really wonderful<BR>
things<BR>
>to be said about class-based systems (once you get beyond the criticism<BR>
that<BR>
>classes "aren't realistic"), and there are a number of really wonderful<BR>
>things to be said about CT style character generation (once you get beyond<BR>
>the criticism that there is little "choice" on the part of the players to<BR>
>allow them to have the type of character that they want). There's more to a<BR>
>class-based system than simply classifying characters during the generation<BR>
>process.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:04:43 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Corporations active in District 268/Five Sisters<BR>
<BR>
Uncanonical note on the 5FW peace. The Sword Worlds and the Imperium agreed<BR>
to normalise trade and commerce, and as part of that it was agreed that<BR>
regular scheduled shipping would be established between the Sword Worlds and<BR>
the Imperium. In respect to the Sword Worlds' distrucst of the Imperial<BR>
megacorps, it was agreed that no Imperial megacorp would be involved. Much<BR>
to the disgust of Tukera. But they did manage to pull strings to keep<BR>
Oberlindes out of the route.<BR>
<BR>
The SW impound goods whose owners cannot prove that they went from an<BR>
authorised entrepot (Collace, Dallia  or Iderati) into the Sword Worlds on<BR>
an authorised ship. Get the Sword Worlds Commercial Attache to sign for<BR>
them, or see your goods impounded. The only authorised ships belong to<BR>
Crystal Shipping LIC and Chaperon Blancs, although their are rumours in<BR>
Collace's commercial circles that an un-named financier has managed to<BR>
wangle an export and shipment  permit for an express ship going by a<BR>
different route to the standard "Sword Worlds Run".<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium doesnt really care - indeed, elements at the Court at Glisten<BR>
feel that the more integrated the Sword Worlds are with the Imperial<BR>
economy, the less chance of war exists. Thus, Imperial worlds and client<BR>
states dont care about paperwork for goods or ships coming from the Sword<BR>
Worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Chaperon Blancs : Narsil-based Interface Line. One of the 2 lines authorised<BR>
to trade between the Sword Worlds and Collace. Uses SW based ships, usually<BR>
built on Narsil. Runs shipping down as far as Karin in the 5 Sisters.<BR>
<BR>
Crystal Shipping : Set up specifically for the Sword Worlds Run from<BR>
Collace.<BR>
<BR>
?Darrian Postal Service? : I cant remember the name of these guys. It's<BR>
something long in Elvish. Sorry, Darrian. They schedule traffic to Asteline,<BR>
and along the cluster of routes near Karin.<BR>
<BR>
Tukera, Oberlindes, Naasirka and LSP all compete on the Collace main line,<BR>
and on the Collace/Mertactor/Dallia triangle. Oberlindes and Tukera go out<BR>
to Wonstar from Collace, and on the Darrian Run. SuSAG contract their<BR>
shipping (esp from Tarsus) to Naasirka. LSP go to their facilities on Bowman<BR>
Belt via Squallia, Tarkine and Milagro, and then on to Glisten.<BR>
<BR>
Rapier Lines : Elixabethers. Trade within 4 parscs of Elixabeth. Runs ships<BR>
in the Squallia/Tarkine/Elixabeth and Forine/Tarkine/Dallia triangles.<BR>
<BR>
Arguvid Trading LLP : Originally based on Naval Supply contracts between<BR>
Darrians the the various naval  bases in the Five Sisters. Later went into<BR>
general shipping. They are backing the young colonies on Jinx, Wonderay,<BR>
769-422 and 876-574.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial Courier Service : A section of the IISS Xboat service. Due to<BR>
creative interpretation of regulations, IISS ships (and Xboats) take "small<BR>
packages" of up to 5 dtons within 5 Sisters subsector on a space-available<BR>
basis.<BR>
<BR>
Ideeerati LTF : Runs shipping, usually in competition with Arguvid Trading,<BR>
in the Coreward parts of Five Sisters.<BR>
<BR>
TrexShipCorp : State-owned corporation runs on all routes from Trexalon.<BR>
<BR>
Mewey Ministry of the Exterior : Provides freight contracts and financing to<BR>
people trading with Mewey. Note that all official trade with Ochetate must<BR>
go via Mewey.<BR>
<BR>
Allfinanz : Main frinacial corp on Collace. Branch offices on all WTN4<BR>
worlds in both subsectors.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:14:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: songs<BR>
<BR>
> The song that took me days to drive out of my head was prompted by someone<BR>
> asking what happened when the PA-bearing elephant sneezed:<BR>
> "I went to the animal fair,<BR>
> the birds and the beasts were there.<BR>
> The big baboon, by the light of the moon,<BR>
> Was combing his auburn hair.<BR>
> The monkey, he got drunk,<BR>
> And stepped on the elephant's trunk --<BR>
> The elephant sneezed<BR>
> And fell to his knees,<BR>
> And that was the end of the monk!"<BR>
> Anybody else remember that one? It's one of those nonsense songs my mom<BR>
used<BR>
> to sing at the drop of a hat.<BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
Yep. It's called "The Animal Faire" IIRC. Of course, with the PA on the<BR>
elephant,<BR>
I'd suggest that the last line is probably be "and that was the end of the<BR>
trunk" but...<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:18:36 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Alleged Piercing<BR>
<BR>
Pete writes:<BR>
<BR>
> >Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
> >husband. <BR>
> <BR>
> Right. But, I've never heard of this alleged piercing.<BR>
<BR>
1) Go to a local shopping mall<BR>
<BR>
2) find a place with a sign out front that says "Free Ear Piercing"*<BR>
<BR>
3) Show the proprietor your alleged, and say you want it pierced<BR>
<BR>
4) after dealing with mall security and promising to obey the the restraining <BR>
order, go to a place with a sign out front that says "If it dangles, we'll <BR>
punch a hole in it"<BR>
<BR>
5) Ask them what a "Prince Albert" is.<BR>
<BR>
6)a Be totally captivated and get one on the  spot<BR>
6)b Be totally apalled and leave the store with you hand protecting the area <BR>
mentioned.<BR>
  <BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
*These signs are a lie, BTW -- they won't let me do it to them. Even if I <BR>
volunteer to bring my own pushpin and paper towels . . .<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:18:37 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-25 16:00:36 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< When did all that happen? Where is that "Black Curtain"?<BR>
 <BR>
 In short: What's the story?  >><BR>
<BR>
Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the final <BR>
details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything else I know <BR>
on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:12:04 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: DGP-GDW taped seminars<BR>
<BR>
Hi all,<BR>
  Before I begin my polemic with Peter...I was wondering if anyone on the <BR>
TML has copies of the GDW+DGP video taped seminairs.  As I ran across an old <BR>
advertisement in TD and thought: cool!  If so could we make a copy, who <BR>
would own the copyright, Roger <spit> S*#@$ger!?<BR>
   Also, is any in possession of High Passage #1 and is it worth while to <BR>
buy it (other its value as a collector).<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:23:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien Sport and Beer<BR>
<BR>
> By the way, my name is Jens, and I am a male. Just so all you Americans<BR>
> stop confusing my name with the female name Jen  :-)<BR>
<BR>
My apologies Jens,  I was definitely one of them "confused Americans" :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Descriptions of these drinks (as well as numerous other important<BR>
> things) can be found in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (Adams,<BR>
> Douglas). Don't leave home without it!<BR>
> (really funny book, you *must* read it)<BR>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
    Actually, I read it and I believe a companion with it as well as the<BR>
Stainless<BR>
Steel Rat books a LONG time ago, I remember very little about either one<BR>
though- probably time to reread them.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:35:26 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
At 12:06 PM 3/20/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
> >>The Famile Spofulam Jet Bike is the calm, reasoned response of a<BR>
> >>corporation with a keen understanding of the value of customers<BR>
> ><BR>
> >i.e.: Once we have their money, they are of no value to us.<BR>
><BR>
>Could be. I mean, it's not like they're going for repeat business.<BR>
>Charred spots surrounded by a toxic haze aren't likely to be shopping<BR>
>for more products any time soon. <G><BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
         Thanks, Walt.  Keyboard kill and a woken two-year old.  I'll get <BR>
you for this...  Presuming I ever stop laughing....<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:29:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
>And, no, I won't grant that you're "in the game" into you find a<BR>
>Starport to start your adventure.  At *that* point, we'll see which<BR>
>(if any) of your skills prove useful. <weg><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Naaahh... the starport is only half of it. He still has to find the<BR>
particular bar in the starport that contains the Patron <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:41:20 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 05:53 PM 3/20/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> >Actually, a foil would have a tendency to break if used as a weapon,<BR>
> >chainmail or no.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm probably getting my terms mixed up here. Is a "foil" a sport fencing<BR>
>weapon, not intended for real combat, while the real weapon it is<BR>
>based on (a rapier?) is different?<BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
         Correct.  Barely related, really.  A modern Schlager blade is much <BR>
closer to a rapier.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:44:40 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 01:24 AM 3/21/00, you wrote:<BR>
>On 03/20/00 at 02:23 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
> >Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in the<BR>
> >ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were riveted<BR>
> >or welded closed).<BR>
><BR>
>Wasn't there something called a bodkin point, long, thin, very sharp, made <BR>
>for punching through chainmail?<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
         Yes.  Very effective, based on personal testing.  Broadheads get <BR>
stopped cold by good chain, whereas a bodkin hitting square will <BR>
penetrate.  Angle hits rarely did anything.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:50:15 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 01:31 PM 3/21/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > The key words here are 'modern mail armor'. Such fine, strong mesh was<BR>
> > quite unattainable given the technology available to smiths in the eras<BR>
> > when chain mail was prevalent.<BR>
><BR>
>True, but even medieval mail armor had higher construction standards than SCA<BR>
>mail.<BR>
<BR>
         It depends who the armorer is.  I've heard of some stuff "field <BR>
tested" that was constructed using period quality materials and techniques <BR>
by SCAdians and others that was completely *beyond* anything documentable <BR>
in terms of the technology behind it.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:53:34 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 08:01 PM 3/21/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Mostly right but the exception proves the rule.  Lorenzo the Magnificent and<BR>
>his brother were attending mass when the assasins struck with daggers.<BR>
>Lorenzo with the foresight of the truly parnoid was wearing a light vest or<BR>
>shirt of fine chain mail under his velvets his brother was not.  Lorenzo<BR>
>lived as the mail turned the blades.  The incident happened in 16th century<BR>
>Italy, I forget the date or the city but will look it up if any one wants<BR>
>it.<BR>
<BR>
         Easter Mass, Florence, Italy, 1496.<BR>
         Part of the context you are missing about Lorenzo's paranoia is <BR>
that it was pretty much *unthinkable* to perform such a heinous act on such <BR>
a day in such a place.  Guilliano, his brother, was being pretty reasonable <BR>
in his attire given the context.<BR>
<BR>
>As a side note just two days ago I got a really close look as some chain<BR>
>mail from Ottoman Empire, two hip length shirts with inset metal plates<BR>
>across the chest.  The links were single rivited but not talismatic, however<BR>
>there was a talismatic cotton shirt which had apparently been worn at least<BR>
>once close to the body.  Look for the exhibit "Ottoman Art from the Khalili<BR>
>Collection" in a museum near you.  It is going to Chicago and New York as<BR>
>well as Houston if I am not mistaken.<BR>
<BR>
         <drool>  Damn.  Another good one I'll miss.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:50:18 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> > On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
> >     One of the biggest advantages to "conversion" is that the d20<BR>
> > system is fully integrated as far as skills and combat go and both<BR>
> > Traveller and D&D use a "class-based" system- albeit, Traveller's<BR>
> > is a bit looser :-)<BR>
<BR>
> I have to completely disagree that Traveller uses a class-based system.<BR>
<BR>
    Okay, my initial post here was to discuss conversion of Traveller to the<BR>
d20 system. Not basically to argue about whether Traveller is/not a class<BR>
based system.<BR>
    However, in light of your disagreement, I will give you my view on why I<BR>
called it a class-based system and this IS in light of CT and MT rules as<BR>
those are the only ones that I have had the privilege of using.<BR>
    There are three basic types of system: Class-based, Skills-based, and<BR>
Points-based. Some very specific features tend to make them what they<BR>
are.<BR>
    Class-based uses a Class/Profession/Template or whatever else you<BR>
want to call it to "restrict" characters and add balance to the game. This<BR>
is<BR>
what Traveller does in contrast to the other two systems.<BR>
    Skills-based systems completely throw away the idea of occupational<BR>
restriction and rely on a generation system where you either roll or spend<BR>
points on skills, powers, and what-not.<BR>
    Points-based systems generally throw away the random rolls and usually<BR>
do the same with classes using points to determine everything...<BR>
<BR>
    Here's my take on some examples of each type...<BR>
Class-based: D&D, AD&D, White Wolf, Traveller, Twilight 2000 2nd ed or<BR>
later.<BR>
Skills-based: The Fantasy Trip (TFT), Twilight 2000 v:1, James Bond<BR>
Points-based: The Hero System, Car Wars, Star Fleet Battles, and most<BR>
Strategy games.<BR>
<BR>
> Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
> careers, which you can easily move between. Admittedly the CT rules didn't<BR>
> talk much about moving between careers, but they didn't explicitly forbid<BR>
> it. Later systems (TNE) expected changes in career.<BR>
<BR>
    This is merely "semantics" of what you call the classes. You can move<BR>
between "careers" in AD&D/D&D as well. It is called "duel-classing" as<BR>
opposed to multi-classing.<BR>
    When you pick up a new class, you quit using the old and progressing<BR>
along it. When you pick up a new career in Traveller, you quit progressing<BR>
along the old as well.<BR>
<BR>
> D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
<BR>
    Traveller uses a level-based system with character careers. While<BR>
different<BR>
in many of the mechanics, it is still a class-based system.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, AD&D 3 may change this, I don't know, but I doubt very much<BR>
that<BR>
> TSR will drop it's level based systesm, especially as people are saying<BR>
> AD&D3 is similar to Alternity which still has levels.<BR>
> Frankie<BR>
<BR>
    Nope. 3rd edition remains as a class-based system using levels and it<BR>
still pretty much sucks for those who don't like the restrictions of such a<BR>
system.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:53:13 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 06:12 PM,  "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I have no personal preference for either system I was merely<BR>
>presenting an standard in which games can be compared or talked<BR>
>about.<BR>
<BR>
That probably makes you a rarity on this list. <g><BR>
<BR>
>Occupational Classes is a standard of alot of role playing games<BR>
>that takes place in the modern setting e.g.  Any thing but swords<BR>
>and socercy.  So the fact that a system has Career Classes doesn't<BR>
>make a system bad it's just part the mechanics of the game like if<BR>
>a car has carburetor or is full injected.<BR>
<BR>
Hee!  I have a career, I have a profession, I have an occupation, I<BR>
even have vocations and avocations, but none of the above are<BR>
classes, not the way TSR defined them, IAC.  <g> <BR>
<BR>
I just can't agree with your terminology.  Sorry, but Traveller was<BR>
the RPG that didn't have *classes*, it was the one that had<BR>
*skills.* As long as you insist on refering to occupations and<BR>
careers as classes you'll be talking right past me.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2185<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2186</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2186<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
Re: Alleged Piercing<BR>
Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
RE: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:04:52 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 01:24 AM 3/21/00, you wrote:<BR>
> >On 03/20/00 at 02:23 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
> > >Since the head of the arrow is larger than the rings, it will jam in the<BR>
> > >ring unless it can spread the link open (which is why links were riveted<BR>
> > >or welded closed).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Wasn't there something called a bodkin point, long, thin, very sharp, made<BR>
> >for punching through chainmail?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Eris<BR>
> <BR>
>          Yes.  Very effective, based on personal testing.  Broadheads get<BR>
> stopped cold by good chain, whereas a bodkin hitting square will<BR>
> penetrate.  Angle hits rarely did anything.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  I wonder whether californium crossbow bolts are feasible. <BR>
_Those_ should penetrate chainmail (and give a whole new definition to<BR>
the term "explosive bolts")....  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:02:15 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 12:04 AM 3/26/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
> >          Yes.  Very effective, based on personal testing.  Broadheads get<BR>
> > stopped cold by good chain, whereas a bodkin hitting square will<BR>
> > penetrate.  Angle hits rarely did anything.<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm.  I wonder whether californium crossbow bolts are feasible.<BR>
>_Those_ should penetrate chainmail (and give a whole new definition to<BR>
>the term "explosive bolts")....  ;-)<BR>
>--<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
<BR>
         I just went for IR-RAM-HEAP...  heavy crossbows only.<BR>
<BR>
         The look on the players face when that thing came through the door <BR>
of the ULAV they were in after they "pooh-pooh"'d about it...<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
	-- Michel R. Vaillancourt	<BR>
	   (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:36:23 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 08:27 PM,  "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
Chauncey, I'm going to keep your entire text, but try to break it<BR>
down point by point so I can better answer it.<BR>
<BR>
>I believe games have a technology all their own.  As such it should<BR>
>be able to talk about it in the same way as you talk about<BR>
>automobiles.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think I'd put that way, but I understand your point, and I<BR>
agree that there are common procedures and systems in games that can<BR>
be "classified" and discussed.<BR>
<BR>
>I believe that the Classes in a second generation system like<BR>
>Traveller or other games like it.  Yes you can create cross over<BR>
>characters but they do have classes even if it's the mustering out<BR>
>benefits are different.<BR>
<BR>
You're making several big assumptions here that haven't been agreed<BR>
to, or even defined for that matter.  One is just what "Class" means<BR>
in an RPG sense. two that Traveller has them, three that you can<BR>
classify RPG's in generations, and four that Traveller is<BR>
identifiable as a system of the second generation.<BR>
<BR>
>I believe that Classes in a general since only means that you're given<BR>
>different choices in skills and have different options open to you. it<BR>
>doesn't have to be some way of doing things just choices and options.<BR>
<BR>
I disagree.  As I see it "Class" defines a character more strictly<BR>
than that.  Not only does it limit what abilities are available to<BR>
the character it defines the character's innate abilities in ways<BR>
far beyond skills.  It affects their ability to accept and give out<BR>
damage.  It limits the equipment they can use, the skills they can<BR>
learn, and (and here's the kicker) it *keeps* defining that<BR>
character throughout play.<BR>
<BR>
In Traveller, your character's "Career" in the Navy, may have<BR>
limited the skills he was exposed to, but it doesn't limit what he<BR>
may learn or do once out of the Navy and playing.  Additionally, the<BR>
character's career in Traveller doesn't affect his ability to take<BR>
damage, nor does it affect his ability to give damage beyond the<BR>
level of skill he may have attained. <BR>
<BR>
I think we disagree on this point and others as I outlined in<BR>
another post this afternoon. <BR>
<BR>
I don't know what *your* career is Chauncey, but in mine I am<BR>
exposed to a particular suite of skills and experiences.  Over time<BR>
I have become proficient in many of these skills.  It also shields<BR>
me from many *other* skills and makes it much more difficult to<BR>
develop proficiency outside my limited set of skills.  Unlike a<BR>
class, this isn't due to innate differences, but mostly due to<BR>
different exposures.  This has always seemed logical, reasonable,<BR>
and realistic to me, and it's (with certain limitations) the way<BR>
Traveller does things.  If I changed careers, I'd probably be<BR>
exposed to a different set of skills and develop new skills.<BR>
<BR>
What I'm saying is that it isn't realistic to simply pick from all<BR>
possible skills at any time.  If a game system allows that, I see<BR>
that as a *potential* weakness not a strength, and if a game encourages<BR>
this then the potential is realized.<BR>
<BR>
...all IMO, of course,<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:44:08 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Victorian Mores<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:42:07 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:48:06 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
>> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>>In mail you write:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:31 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
>>>> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> <snip><BR>
>>>>>As would anybody familar with the history of the piercing named after<BR>
>>>>>Prince Albert... :-)<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> Huh? Isn't he the guy in the can?<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
>>>husband. <BR>
>><BR>
>> Right. But, I've never heard of this alleged piercing.<BR>
><BR>
>It really *is* a common piercing of the male genitalia. I'm sure that<BR>
>several others on the list can back me up on this. Whether the Prince<BR>
>actually had one, and if so, if it was for the reason usually given the<BR>
>the stories explaining the name, nobody knows.<BR>
><BR>
>It *is* one of the few piercings that actually had a "practical" use. <BR>
><BR>
>And I *really* doubt that you are interested in the details... :-)<BR>
<BR>
And I *really* think you're right! ;-)  Piercing and genitalia are two<BR>
words I try not to put together.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:45:34 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alleged Piercing<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:18:36 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Pete writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> >Both the piercing and the tobacco are named after Queen Victoria's<BR>
>> >husband. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Right. But, I've never heard of this alleged piercing.<BR>
><BR>
>1) Go to a local shopping mall<BR>
><BR>
>2) find a place with a sign out front that says "Free Ear Piercing"*<BR>
><BR>
>3) Show the proprietor your alleged, and say you want it pierced<BR>
><BR>
>4) after dealing with mall security and promising to obey the the restraining <BR>
>order, go to a place with a sign out front that says "If it dangles, we'll <BR>
>punch a hole in it"<BR>
><BR>
>5) Ask them what a "Prince Albert" is.<BR>
><BR>
>6)a Be totally captivated and get one on the  spot<BR>
>6)b Be totally apalled and leave the store with you hand protecting the area <BR>
>mentioned.<BR>
  <BR>
I'll take option 6b for $100, Loren.<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:47:34 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 09:18 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>
<BR>
>Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the<BR>
>final  details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything<BR>
>else I know  on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
<BR>
You know that's always amazed me. I fully understand why you might not be "at liberty to reveal anything", but I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't allow you to explain why you aren't allowed to explain why. <BR>
<BR>
I believe you, I just can't fathom it.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    I guess I'm just an open source kind of guy at heart. <g><BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:55:53 -0600<BR>
From: "Anthony Merlock" <amerlock@execpc.com><BR>
Subject: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:50:18 -0800<BR>
> From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>     Okay, my initial post here was to discuss conversion of Traveller to<BR>
the<BR>
> d20 system. Not basically to argue about whether Traveller is/not a class<BR>
> based system.<BR>
>     However, in light of your disagreement, I will give you my view on why<BR>
I<BR>
> called it a class-based system and this IS in light of CT and MT rules as<BR>
> those are the only ones that I have had the privilege of using.<BR>
>     There are three basic types of system: Class-based, Skills-based, and<BR>
> Points-based. Some very specific features tend to make them what they<BR>
> are.<BR>
>     Class-based uses a Class/Profession/Template or whatever else you<BR>
> want to call it to "restrict" characters and add balance to the game. This<BR>
> is<BR>
> what Traveller does in contrast to the other two systems.<BR>
>     Skills-based systems completely throw away the idea of occupational<BR>
> restriction and rely on a generation system where you either roll or spend<BR>
> points on skills, powers, and what-not.<BR>
>     Points-based systems generally throw away the random rolls and usually<BR>
> do the same with classes using points to determine everything...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I hate to jump in on this discussion, but IMHO, calling Traveller a<BR>
class-based system is using a very different definition of 'class' than I'm<BR>
used to using.<BR>
<BR>
A class defines what a character is, and limits what a character can do.<BR>
The class is central to the character - and performing tasks outside the<BR>
limits of the class is usually difficult, if not impossible.  The class also<BR>
limits how the character can improve, going far beyond the extents of<BR>
character creation.<BR>
<BR>
Fundamentally, you *can not* play a character from a class-based RPG without<BR>
knowing the class.  In Traveller, once the character is generated, their<BR>
career is irrelevant as far as game mechanics go.<BR>
<BR>
So, here's a Traveller character I just rolled up:<BR>
A9575B<BR>
Age 26<BR>
2 terms in one of the basic book 1 careers<BR>
Streetwise-1<BR>
Mechanical-1<BR>
Rifle-1<BR>
<BR>
Mustering Out Benefits:<BR>
Rifle<BR>
Cr 10,000<BR>
<BR>
Even without knowing what career this character was in, I could play him for<BR>
an entire campaign.  He has no limits on his behavior, on learning new<BR>
skills, or on improving his existing skills beyond those limitations that<BR>
apply to all characters.  Completely free of any career-based rule<BR>
restrictions.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, I'm stepping of my soapbox now.......<BR>
<BR>
Tony Merlock<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:05:32 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 07:50 PM,  "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> I have to completely disagree that Traveller uses a class-based system.<BR>
<BR>
>    Okay, my initial post here was to discuss conversion of Traveller to<BR>
>the d20 system. Not basically to argue about whether Traveller is/not a<BR>
>class based system.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Jesse, *if* everything you postulate about class based systems is<BR>
accepted as correct, then your assertions about Traveller are<BR>
correct.  I don't accept your basic postulates.  So, for me at<BR>
least, your assertions aren't correct.  That's the way opinions<BR>
work, right? <g><BR>
<BR>
You say you aren't interested in arguing, well I'm not interested in<BR>
arguing about this either...so let's not.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to create a conversion of Traveller to the proposed d20<BR>
system, then more power to you.  However, please be aware that there<BR>
are some folks here that don't equate "class" with "career", and<BR>
take exception when that contention is presented as fact.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    who's used to holding minority opinions<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 05:08:20 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:47:34 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On 03/25/00 at 09:18 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>
><BR>
>>Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the<BR>
>>final  details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything<BR>
>>else I know  on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
><BR>
>You know that's always amazed me. I fully understand why you might not be "at liberty to reveal anything", but I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't allow you to explain why you aren't allowed to explain why. <BR>
><BR>
>I believe you, I just can't fathom it.<BR>
><BR>
>Eris,<BR>
>    I guess I'm just an open source kind of guy at heart. <g><BR>
<BR>
It could be that what it IS and WHY he can't discuss it are<BR>
intertwined. As the holder of a very high clearance I understand<BR>
perfectly. As far as you know ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:15:20 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 10:55 PM,  "Anthony Merlock" <amerlock@execpc.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I hate to jump in on this discussion, but IMHO, calling Traveller a<BR>
>class-based system is using a very different definition of 'class' than<BR>
>I'm used to using.<BR>
<BR>
Good post Tony!  You took the thoughts right out of my head...<g>...and expressed better than I did.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:21:25 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
On 03/26/00 at 05:08 AM,  j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:<BR>
<BR>
>It could be that what it IS and WHY he can't discuss it are<BR>
>intertwined. As the holder of a very high clearance I understand<BR>
>perfectly. As far as you know ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Huh? <g> <BR>
<BR>
I can fathom something like that in the military/government, but<BR>
concerning a *game*?  Sure I know what non-disclosure agreements<BR>
can be like, but still...it leaves me slack-jawed and perplexed. it<BR>
really does.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
     It's a good thing nobody tells me secrets. <g><BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:13:48 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> >Of course, AD&D 3 may change this...<BR>
<BR>
> No, it won't The "sacred cows" of D&D are class and level. And "rolling<BR>
that<BR>
> d20". As I understand it, they have managed to shoehorn a skill system<BR>
onto the<BR>
> new version of the game as well. Hopefully it works better than the old<BR>
> proficiency system. Comments, Jesse?<BR>
> David "Hyphen" Jaques<BR>
<BR>
    Well David, you got that right. The designers basically took the "sacred<BR>
cows"<BR>
and stuck with them. The d20, Classes, and Levels are what it's all about as<BR>
far<BR>
as they're concerned.<BR>
    First off, I need to make sure that you all understand that IMO (and<BR>
that varies<BR>
strongly from WotC designers' opinions and those of many test-groups) the<BR>
d20<BR>
system is a NEW GAME.<BR>
    This is not a revision in the rules and simply uses the familiarity of<BR>
names<BR>
while changing everything that those names mean. Their statements of<BR>
bringing<BR>
back the Assassin, Barbarian, and Monk as classes are 100% true- but the<BR>
entire class/level system is completely different.<BR>
    My suggestion, if you like AD&D/D&D give 3rd ed a try- you might like<BR>
it. If<BR>
you don't like AD&D/D&D, give 3rd ed a try- you might like it because it<BR>
isn't<BR>
D&D/AD&D.<BR>
    Now, with all that out of the way, the biggest advantage to the new<BR>
system is<BR>
that instead of "shoe-horning" a skills system into it, they rewrote the<BR>
game to<BR>
accomodate a skills system.<BR>
    I always appreciated the proficiency system in all honesty, although I<BR>
would<BR>
have to say that I tweak it a bit myself for a better fit. The Player's<BR>
Option<BR>
system for proficiencies was rather arbitrarily done, but the best that I<BR>
have<BR>
seen for the game- including 3rd edition's.<BR>
<BR>
    Okay, to explain the d20 system without giving you the NDA details, I'll<BR>
give<BR>
you a comparison using Traveller- although my Traveller lore is a bit rusty<BR>
:-)<BR>
    In Traveller we assign a target number by saying: "the task is routine"<BR>
a<BR>
routine task has a target number of 7 on 2d6. Average roll. We assign a<BR>
Difficulty Modifier (DM) and add it to the die roll to get a result. 7+<BR>
succeeds.<BR>
Things like tech level, skill level, stats all figure into the DM.<BR>
    On the d20 system, we assign a target number. An average roll would, of<BR>
course be the target number. We assign a Die Modifier (DM anyone?) to the<BR>
roll. The DM is based on such things as Class/Level combination, stats, and<BR>
skill level. Roll the target number or higher and you succeed.<BR>
    Now, personally I am more in favor of a d20 or d% system simply because<BR>
the odds are quite a bit simpler to determine and I've never really learned<BR>
the<BR>
rules/odds to craps ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Hope that helps.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:26:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> I read some of the draft D&D3 material on some website (they're dropping<BR>
> the "A").  It still has the classes, levels, and race. But, that isn't the<BR>
same<BR>
> as<BR>
> the D20 system.  The D20 system will, from what I gather, be the generic<BR>
> task resolution system underneath the content, built upon the skills and<BR>
> standard 6 TSR stats ranging from 3-18, that we all know so well.<BR>
> While levels are certainly a part of D&D, what isn't clear is whether<BR>
levels<BR>
> is part of the D20 system.  I doubt that it is, but I don't know.<BR>
> This site has some info on the beta materials:<BR>
http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/<BR>
> Check the Character link.  From what is described, even though classes<BR>
still<BR>
> exist, a lot is being done to undermine classes as a meaningful thing,<BR>
within<BR>
> the game mechanics.<BR>
> Of course, the Open D20 system is by no means a certainty at this point.<BR>
> bloo<BR>
<BR>
    Okay, here's how it goes on that end. The system used for 3rd edition is<BR>
the d20 system. Period. This is a fully integrated system. For them to say<BR>
that the d20 is different than the 3rd ed. system is simply an attempt to<BR>
pull<BR>
the wool over the eyes of the many flocks of sheep that blindly follow them<BR>
already.<BR>
    The systems are integral to each other as much as THAC0 and AC are<BR>
an integral part of the older systems. You can use THAC0 and AC for any<BR>
game system- but that doesn't change that it still derives its values from<BR>
everything else in the game system. The same goes with the d20 system.<BR>
    Whew! I know, long-winded, I'm trying to present this objectively<BR>
despite<BR>
my irritation with WotC at what they are doing with it- sorry all.<BR>
    WotC is indeed dropping the "Advanced" from D&D making the claim<BR>
that it is because "advanced" implies that a player needs to be skilled in<BR>
another system first and since the D&D system no longer exists- there's<BR>
no "advanced" to it.<BR>
    This is more corporate BS. The truth is that they are appealing to as<BR>
wide<BR>
an audience as possible and to get the old hardcore D&D players (And<BR>
there are a lot of them) to try the game- they are giving it the old name<BR>
and<BR>
a couple of things that will be familiar to them.<BR>
    Finally, as presented in the AD&D rules, the d20 system requires the<BR>
Class, Level, and Stats of the characters in order to function. True, you<BR>
can<BR>
take out say Stat modifiers, however this lowers your averages on your<BR>
rolls and will disbalance the system- guaranteed.<BR>
   IMO, calling it the "d20 system" and open sourcing it would be a market<BR>
ploy to get everyone familiar with the system so that they can sell more 3rd<BR>
edition material and nothing more.<BR>
    Of course, they do intend to make the d20 system the backbone to all<BR>
of their RPG's (thus the cancellation of Alternity for example) and I would<BR>
imagine that this means classes/levels/stats for all of them in one form or<BR>
another.<BR>
    I said this in another e-mail, but I'll say it again just to make sure<BR>
people<BR>
who are following read it: The 3rd edition system is a new game with an<BR>
old label on it.<BR>
    If you don't like AD&D- give it a try, it's not the same game. If you do<BR>
like<BR>
AD&D- give it a try, you might like playing a new game. If you're like me,<BR>
you'll say "to Hell with the whole mess" and start looking for something<BR>
with<BR>
more stability or write your own system.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:50:29 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> Hee!  I have a career, I have a profession, I have an occupation, I<BR>
> even have vocations and avocations, but none of the above are<BR>
> classes, not the way TSR defined them, IAC.  <g><BR>
> I just can't agree with your terminology.  Sorry, but Traveller was<BR>
> the RPG that didn't have *classes*, it was the one that had<BR>
> *skills.* As long as you insist on refering to occupations and<BR>
> careers as classes you'll be talking right past me.<BR>
> Eris<BR>
<BR>
    Okay Eris, this is specifically why I said that Traveller's classes were<BR>
a bit "looser" than AD&D's. Basically, if you want to look at a system<BR>
that is NOT class-based look at GURPs (from what I recall), look at<BR>
the Hero system, and look at Twilight 2000 1st edition.<BR>
    Now Champions/Hero system have "package deals" that are in<BR>
all reality basically a class. The 1st ed. T2k system does have careers,<BR>
however it does not RESTRICT the character in what he can choose<BR>
and this is what separates it out.<BR>
    Traveller's choices during character generation make it class-based<BR>
simply because it DOES restrict the character's options. Of course we<BR>
can go into systems being one thing for generation and another after.<BR>
However, that is just getting trivial for what I was trying to present.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:45:52 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
> > I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive<BR>
misjump<BR>
> > insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew and<BR>
> > passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
><BR>
> The odds of being found are *way* too low. If you land in a system,<BR>
> that's one thing. If you (much more likely) land in an empty hex, it's<BR>
> going to take 3.26 years *minimum* for your signal to reach a system<BR>
> (and that's assuming that there's one within one hex). And the odds of<BR>
> it being *noticed* are low, even if it *is* an inhabited system.<BR>
><BR>
> Lets say you have a megawatt transmitter. At one parsec, it's going to<BR>
> be down to 84e-12 *picowatts* per square kilometer... Nobody is going<BR>
> to hear that over background noise unless they've got a *major* radio<BR>
> telescope aimed right at you.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, by "beacon" I mean pulsing the AEMS (I tend to build civilian ships<BR>
with AEMS' because they are cheaper, and because as a civilian you worry<BR>
about not being detected more than you worry about being detected).<BR>
<BR>
What SOP would be once people agree that a decent-sized ship is lost is the<BR>
insurers put out an APB, and those dinky little 100 dton Scout Ships start<BR>
checking "empty" hexes. Whoever finds it gets a chunky bonus (like, a couple<BR>
of megacredits - gotta beat the ethically-challenged to it). A freighter<BR>
with a set of appropriate drop tank then makes a rendezvous.<BR>
<BR>
Misjumps should be rare enough for any given ship not to need to over-insure<BR>
against them, but common enough that the sort of "salvage" infrastructure<BR>
can be put in place.<BR>
<BR>
There's an adventure in this, isnt there ...<BR>
<BR>
The second policy for big ships would be to carry a 100 dton scout ship as a<BR>
jump torpedo. It's probably worthwhile insurance for something in the 50<BR>
kiloton range.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:47:28 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Jet Bike<BR>
<BR>
Michel Vaillencourt wrote:<BR>
>     Thanks, Walt.  Keyboard kill and a woken two-year old.  I'll get <BR>
>you for this...  Presuming I ever stop laughing....<BR>
<BR>
Wow.<BR>
<BR>
My empathy, I just dealt with a woken one year old a half-hour ago.<BR>
<BR>
One more keyboard and I'm an ace. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:05:35 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 08:50 PM,  "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> I just can't agree with your terminology.  Sorry, but Traveller was<BR>
>> the RPG that didn't have *classes*, it was the one that had<BR>
>> *skills.* As long as you insist on refering to occupations and<BR>
>> careers as classes you'll be talking right past me.<BR>
<BR>
>    Okay Eris, this is specifically why I said that Traveller's classes<BR>
>were a bit "looser" than AD&D's. Basically, if you want to look at a<BR>
>system that is NOT class-based look at GURPs (from what I recall), look<BR>
>at the Hero system, and look at Twilight 2000 1st edition.<BR>
<BR>
I'd say GURPS is a Skill based system that uses the distribution of Points to define a character's skills, attributes, gifts and faults.<BR>
<BR>
I'd say Traveller is a Skill based system that uses Random Rolls of dice to define a character's skills, attributes, and..to a limited degree..gifts and faults.<BR>
<BR>
It's been a while since I even looked at a TSR game, so perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd classify D&D as a Class based system that used Random Rolls to define stats. Last I looked AD&D was much the same.<BR>
<BR>
Off hand I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are some, Class based systems that distribute Points to define stats.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse, we simply aren't going to agree on terms here. In your opinion, classes are X and Traveller careers fit within the scope of X. In my opinion classes are Y and Traveller carrers don't fit within the scope of Y. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:01:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
William Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Assuming you use CT or T4:<BR>
><BR>
> We'll assume Joe P. Average 777___<BR>
> takes a 6d rifle hit.<BR>
> Roll the 6d: get 2,3,4,5,3,5 on the dice<BR>
> for each die of damage, apply it to a randomly chosen physical attribute,<BR>
> using an extra die to randomize: 1-2 Str, 3-4 Dex, 5-6 End<BR>
><BR>
> pick the first die: a 2, and roll an extra die: it comes up a 3, thus dex.<BR>
> Current is now 757___<BR>
> Pick the second die: a 3. Randomize for attribute, roll is a 2,<BR>
> apply it to<BR>
> Strength. Now 457___<BR>
> 3rd die is a 4: apply it with attribute randomization roll of 4, to Dex.<BR>
> Now 417<BR>
> 4th die is a 5.Allocation die is a 2. Goes to strength. Excess points are<BR>
> lost, so now 017. Strength can take no more damage. So allocation now goes<BR>
> to rolls of 1-3: Dex, 4-6: End<BR>
> 5th die is a 3, allocation die is a 1. Remember, STR is at 0, so we have a<BR>
> low roll, and thus dex. Again, the excess is lost. So now we have 007___<BR>
> the final die is a 5, and there is only one non-zero attribute: End. So it<BR>
> autoapplies to end. Now 002<BR>
><BR>
> At 002___, che character is unconscious, and will be for a while,<BR>
> and needs<BR>
> medical attention.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Under CT, you also have the "first blood" rule. I always interpreted this as<BR>
follows. Suppose you have a hit from a rifle which does 3D of damage, say<BR>
the 2, 3, and 4 from the above example. If this is the first wound which a<BR>
character takes, then  all 9 points get applied to one characteristic. If<BR>
this is Joe P. Average, then he's unconscious and out of action. Additional<BR>
dice of damage were the player's choice.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2186<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2187</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2187<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
Re: Black Curtain?<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
And again I forgot to change the subject(was:Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183)<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:37:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
So you're saying that all the palladium games rule system games does;'t have<BR>
classes either? Or what about choasium games like Call ? Nope sorry they are<BR>
all classes weather you need to know them to play or not. They exist they<BR>
are classes if you can't create a character with out one it's a class<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Anthony Merlock <amerlock@execpc.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 12:02 AM<BR>
Subject: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:50:18 -0800<BR>
>> From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
>> Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>I hate to jump in on this discussion, but IMHO, calling Traveller a<BR>
>class-based system is using a very different definition of 'class' than I'm<BR>
>used to using.<BR>
><BR>
>A class defines what a character is, and limits what a character can do.<BR>
>The class is central to the character - and performing tasks outside the<BR>
>limits of the class is usually difficult, if not impossible.  The class<BR>
also<BR>
>limits how the character can improve, going far beyond the extents of<BR>
>character creation.<BR>
><BR>
>Fundamentally, you *can not* play a character from a class-based RPG<BR>
without<BR>
>knowing the class.  In Traveller, once the character is generated, their<BR>
>career is irrelevant as far as game mechanics go.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:28:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
You had a very good idea of keeping the entire text and responding point by<BR>
point.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 11:41 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On 03/25/00 at 08:27 PM,  "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>Chauncey, I'm going to keep your entire text, but try to break it<BR>
>down point by point so I can better answer it.<BR>
><BR>
>>I believe games have a technology all their own.  As such it should<BR>
>>be able to talk about it in the same way as you talk about<BR>
>>automobiles.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think I'd put that way, but I understand your point, and I<BR>
>agree that there are common procedures and systems in games that can<BR>
>be "classified" and discussed.<BR>
see we agree already we're mostly there.<BR>
><BR>
>>I believe that the Classes in a second generation system like<BR>
>>Traveller or other games like it.  Yes you can create cross over<BR>
>>characters but they do have classes even if it's the mustering out<BR>
>>benefits are different.<BR>
><BR>
>You're making several big assumptions here that haven't been agreed<BR>
>to, or even defined for that matter.  One is just what "Class" means<BR>
>in an RPG sense. two that Traveller has them, three that you can<BR>
>classify RPG's in generations, and four that Traveller is<BR>
>identifiable as a system of the second generation.<BR>
Ok then you're saying that we need to define what a class is. but it needs<BR>
to be broad enoug to encompas all the games that have traveller like<BR>
machainics and rule sets. There are alot of them Palliduim is just one of<BR>
them. Like I said in my first post most games have this widget in them which<BR>
allows them to work. With using my definition of classes and skills only 4-5<BR>
games that only have skills that means we have to define the other games<BR>
that was produced.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>I believe that Classes in a general since only means that you're given<BR>
>>different choices in skills and have different options open to you. it<BR>
>>doesn't have to be some way of doing things just choices and options.<BR>
><BR>
>I disagree.  As I see it "Class" defines a character more strictly<BR>
>than that.  Not only does it limit what abilities are available to<BR>
>the character it defines the character's innate abilities in ways<BR>
>far beyond skills.  It affects their ability to accept and give out<BR>
>damage.  It limits the equipment they can use, the skills they can<BR>
>learn, and (and here's the kicker) it *keeps* defining that<BR>
>character throughout play.<BR>
><BR>
>In Traveller, your character's "Career" in the Navy, may have<BR>
>limited the skills he was exposed to, but it doesn't limit what he<BR>
>may learn or do once out of the Navy and playing.  Additionally, the<BR>
>character's career in Traveller doesn't affect his ability to take<BR>
>damage, nor does it affect his ability to give damage beyond the<BR>
>level of skill he may have attained.<BR>
><BR>
>I think we disagree on this point and others as I outlined in<BR>
>another post this afternoon.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't know what *your* career is Chauncey, but in mine I am<BR>
>exposed to a particular suite of skills and experiences.  Over time<BR>
>I have become proficient in many of these skills.  It also shields<BR>
>me from many *other* skills and makes it much more difficult to<BR>
>develop proficiency outside my limited set of skills.  Unlike a<BR>
>class, this isn't due to innate differences, but mostly due to<BR>
>different exposures.  This has always seemed logical, reasonable,<BR>
>and realistic to me, and it's (with certain limitations) the way<BR>
>Traveller does things.  If I changed careers, I'd probably be<BR>
>exposed to a different set of skills and develop new skills.<BR>
><BR>
>What I'm saying is that it isn't realistic to simply pick from all<BR>
>possible skills at any time.  If a game system allows that, I see<BR>
>that as a *potential* weakness not a strength, and if a game encourages<BR>
>this then the potential is realized.<BR>
><BR>
>...all IMO, of course,<BR>
I'm a computer consultant. And I have a skill set that makes me a computer<BR>
consultant. and in traveller terms I took 5 years at a college studing to be<BR>
and engineer which is something I never used but have a degree in and I know<BR>
that my skill set is limited by what I came in contact to learn. I never<BR>
said it was unrealistic to have classes. or sets of skills. Or that is was<BR>
an advantage to do things the GURPs way. what ever way it's done it's done.<BR>
<BR>
All of this I have one question that keeps buring in my mind. Is it bad to<BR>
have classes?<BR>
I personally don't feel that weather it has classes and skills or just<BR>
classes is a good or bad thing. it's just a thing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:23:44 -0800<BR>
From: Edward Swatschek <traveller@bitslayer.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Searching through the Galactic databases, I stumbled across worlds with an<BR>
> odd allegiance: "Wilds" in the TNE galaxy. While I know generally what TNE<BR>
> is and the basics about the Virus, I couldn't find anything about those<BR>
> "Wilds".<BR>
<BR>
In addition to what Bruce said, note that the Wilds designation also indicates a<BR>
different set of government codes are being used:<BR>
<BR>
0: no gov<BR>
1: tribal government<BR>
2: participitory democracy<BR>
3: representative democracy<BR>
4: charasmatic dictator<BR>
5: charasmatic oligarchy<BR>
6: technologically elevated dictator (TED)<BR>
7: mystic dictatorship<BR>
8: totalitarion oligarchy<BR>
9: mystic autocracy<BR>
A: civil service bureaucracy<BR>
B: self-perpetuating oligarchy<BR>
C: impersonal bureaucracy<BR>
<BR>
Balkanization becomes a "B" travel zone code.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Edward Swatschek - edjs@bitslayer.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:42:38 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
now that would ALMOST be worth the effort.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> For extra points use tiny LEDs instead of beads, and run the wires to a<BR>
> control unit so you can light up any star or stars at will. That'd make<BR>
> IDing stars easier, as well as visualizing routes.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:41:42 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
Eris wrote:<BR>
>On 03/26/00 at 05:08 AM,  j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:<BR>
<BR>
>It could be that what it IS and WHY he can't discuss it are<BR>
>intertwined. As the holder of a very high clearance I understand<BR>
>perfectly. As far as you know ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Huh? <g> <BR>
<BR>
I can fathom something like that in the military/government, but<BR>
concerning a *game*?  Sure I know what non-disclosure agreements<BR>
can be like, but still...it leaves me slack-jawed and perplexed. it<BR>
really does.>>>><BR>
<BR>
Best guess: Loren can't tell us why he can't discuss it because...<BR>
<BR>
Oh my.<BR>
<BR>
Never mind. If I'm right, there's no way I can tell anyone without<BR>
giving it away. I'll just have to wait and hope I'm right.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:22:54 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
At 21:18 25.03.00 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-25 16:00:36 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
><< When did all that happen? Where is that "Black Curtain"?<BR>
> <BR>
> In short: What's the story?  >><BR>
><BR>
>Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the final <BR>
>details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything else I<BR>
know <BR>
>on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps Marc Miller could write a book where it's all explained in detail?<BR>
I'm sure most of the collectors on this list would buy it, so...<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:27:10 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain?<BR>
<BR>
At 16:56 25.03.00 -0600, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>I've read everything there, but somehow I don't understand most of it,<BR>
>>I'm afraid.<BR>
><BR>
>Be very, *very* afraid! <g><BR>
<BR>
Glk!<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
>-- The Empress Wave --<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>I think discovering what this "Wave" was and how to mitigate it's<BR>
>effects on the Imperium was a Class A priority for Stephron.  It was<BR>
>also something that needed to remain secret until more information<BR>
>was gained.  That's why he was there in secret when Dulinor's attack<BR>
>came down. <BR>
<BR>
And that's why he suddenly decided that Deneb needed its own Archduke?<BR>
Or at least part of the reason, adding to the administrative requirements<BR>
he sees?<BR>
<BR>
>In the GT timeline, there is no Dulinor attack.  There is also no<BR>
>official word about the Empress Wave. Perhaps it doesn't exist.<BR>
<BR>
I doubt that it does not exist. In the GT book, there is said "the reason<BR>
why Strephon was absent from Capital remains the same in both universes".<BR>
<BR>
>-- The Black Curtain --<BR>
><BR>
>Or "Here there be monsters!"<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>Then there was a "black curtain" drawn on the map encompassing<BR>
>Capital and dozens of parsecs around it.  What was inside the "black<BR>
>curtain" was *not* detailed in the original book.  We were told that<BR>
>it was going to be developed by GDW as they spun out the TNE story.<BR>
>Later there were hints that this was a "Virus Empire", and that has<BR>
>become the accepted version of what is in there, but the truth is WE<BR>
>DON'T REALLY KNOW what's back there.<BR>
><BR>
>It is unlikely the TNE timeline will be officially followed up, so<BR>
>IMO, whatever is behind the "black curtain" is whatever the<BR>
>individual GM wants to put there.  Maybe it's a partnership between<BR>
>Virus and the K'kree...borg'kreee anyone? <g><BR>
<BR>
Thank you for telling the "story".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:42:27 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
At 16:17 25.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> ... it would still be a lot of work for a GM to make up the entire TU again<BR>
>> in 3D. It's IMO a waste of the works of all those fans that made up maps<BR>
>> before. While I like the idea of 3D in an SF universe, it is extremely hard<BR>
>> to use such maps at the game table.<BR>
><BR>
>Actually, it can be made fairly easy to *use* but only at the cost of<BR>
>making the map very time consuming to *build*. I can think of a couple<BR>
>of ways to do it. I came up with the first one a long time ago. I just<BR>
>thought of the second one, and I think it's better, because it allows<BR>
>"folding" the map more or less flat when not in use...<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, both methods consist of building a 3d *model*. The first idea was<BR>
>sticking beads on lengths of wire mounted in a wooden or plastic base. <BR>
><BR>
>The second consists of hanging them by threads from a piece of stiff<BR>
>screening, which you hang from a ceiling lamp of some such. <BR>
><BR>
>For extra points use tiny LEDs instead of beads, and run the wires to a<BR>
>control unit so you can light up any star or stars at will. That'd make<BR>
>IDing stars easier, as well as visualizing routes.<BR>
><BR>
>Like I said, a *lot* of work. But it migh be worth it to see the look<BR>
>on your players' faces when you show them the "map". <BR>
<BR>
When I ran a GURPS Star Trek campaign (before I got bored by that<BR>
Fanatasy-Super-Tech...) I used a paper map in 3D: Two planes, on x/y-plane<BR>
and one x/z plane. A star would have to be entered on both maps according<BR>
to its coordinates. Computing the distance between any two stars was simply<BR>
done by using Pythagoras' genius. For a warp drive, this is quite easy, and<BR>
it allows you to use nebulae and plot courses easily.<BR>
<BR>
I made up a Traveller subsector in a similar way (measuring 8*8*10 parsecs,<BR>
and with a 3D version of Charted space), but soon found out that for<BR>
Traveller, there is a slight problem: You have to compute *every* distance<BR>
to see whether you can jump there or not. This is really unconformtable.<BR>
And the same is true for a real modell. Of course, Chview solves this<BR>
problem. But: Who wants to carry a noetbook to every game session? <BR>
<BR>
In addition, as I wrote earlier, it's a waste of background material. All<BR>
those sectors, the map of Charted Space... that's why I thought about that<BR>
jump space theory, to combine the "feel" (or at least part of the<BR>
"realism") of a 3D map wih the 2D maps. (BTW: Have I mentionend that in the<BR>
next Freelance Traveller update... I have? Good. <g>)<BR>
<BR>
I asked for "It's full of stars" because I needed a program to illustrate<BR>
the "theory". But as I have found out by now, that program is unsuitable<BR>
for this. Chview does better since it shows jump routes (and, BTW, runs on<BR>
slower computers). <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:00:51 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
Jumping in here.<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:50:18 -0800<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>    Here's my take on some examples of each type...<BR>
>Class-based: D&D, AD&D, White Wolf, Traveller, Twilight 2000 2nd ed or<BR>
>later.<BR>
>Skills-based: The Fantasy Trip (TFT), Twilight 2000 v:1, James Bond<BR>
>Points-based: The Hero System, Car Wars, Star Fleet Battles, and most<BR>
>Strategy games.<BR>
<BR>
I personaly found Twilight 2000 1st to be much more rigidly "class based"<BR>
than the 2nd edition/TNE charecter generation. YMMV. I wonder where<BR>
you would place Rolemaster. If I understand your definitions it has<BR>
aspects of all three types.<BR>
<BR>
>> Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
>> careers, which you can easily move between. Admittedly the CT rules<BR>
didn't<BR>
>> talk much about moving between careers, but they didn't explicitly forbid<BR>
>> it. Later systems (TNE) expected changes in career.<BR>
><BR>
>    This is merely "semantics" of what you call the classes. You can move<BR>
>between "careers" in AD&D/D&D as well. It is called "duel-classing" as<BR>
>opposed to multi-classing.<BR>
>    When you pick up a new class, you quit using the old and progressing<BR>
>along it. When you pick up a new career in Traveller, you quit progressing<BR>
>along the old as well.<BR>
<BR>
In a typical class based system a character starts the game as a<BR>
relatively unskilled individual who gains a restricted set of skills<BR>
while adventuring *in game* based upon class chosen. In Traveller<BR>
by contrast a character starts the game with a pool of skills that<BR>
will only infrequently advance during game play. (Actual frequency<BR>
of experience games is of course dependent on edition used and<BR>
the personality of the game/GM.) This is a subtle difference I<BR>
admit but the effect on the game is profound.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
><BR>
>    Traveller uses a level-based system with character careers. While<BR>
>different<BR>
>in many of the mechanics, it is still a class-based system.<BR>
<BR>
In what sense is Traveller a level based system? After chargen<BR>
a character is about as powerfull as it's ever going to get.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"Now the workers have struck for fame<BR>
    cuz Lennon's on sale again." - David Bowie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:50:13 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: And again I forgot to change the subject(was:Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry. :(<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:59:52 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/25/00 at 09:18 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>
><BR>
> >Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the<BR>
> >final  details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything<BR>
> >else I know  on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
><BR>
> You know that's always amazed me. I fully understand why you might not be "at liberty to reveal anything", but I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't allow you to explain why you aren't allowed to explain why.<BR>
><BR>
> I believe you, I just can't fathom it.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I'm just guessing, but if I put my lawyer hat on, several possibilities<BR>
come to mind:<BR>
 - There is a legally binding agreement not to,<BR>
 - To reveal awareness of a thing can exposes the possible source, i.e.,<BR>
only X could have told Y so if Y knows, X is the leak,<BR>
 - Extortion,<BR>
 - Aliens told him,<BR>
 - He learned of it through Project Echelon), or<BR>
 - Fnord.<BR>
<BR>
It sort of reminds me of the one publicly know rule of the Skull and Bones<BR>
'secret' club at Yale (of which George Bush is probably the best known<BR>
member):  If any member is asked about the organization, they are supposed<BR>
to say nothing and leave the presence of the questioner.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:58:48 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
Since I'm on digest, I thought I'd respond to all the feedback at once.<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Traveller-digest wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:48:30 -0600<BR>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
> <BR>
> On 03/25/00 at 01:30 AM,  Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >As some of you may know from my other post, I am something of a gearhead.<BR>
> >I sent this article to the rec.games.frp.gurps newsgroup and the<BR>
> >GURPSnet-l mailing list a little while ago, and since I just joined this<BR>
> >list I thought I'd avail myself of the expert knowledge and experience<BR>
> >found here. (Okay, it's a bit deep, but just three days of lurking have<BR>
> >left me rather impressed.) I have inserted a few new notes to translate<BR>
> >some of my more GURPS related comments to Traveller terms. I suspect this<BR>
> >issue is hotly debated, but please be gentle - I'm just a newbie<BR>
> >traveller trying to get a handle on things in this universe.<BR>
> <BR>
> Dalton, welcome!  <BR>
> <BR>
> As you suspected, the issue of drop tanks is a hotly debated topic.<BR>
> I'll let the various factions introduce themselves to you.<BR>
> Personally, I *liked* your presentation, made great sense to me,<BR>
> although IMTU, I just say no to drop tanks.  Btw, do you own a pair<BR>
> of asbestos underwear?  <g><BR>
 <BR>
Thank you for the kind words. As to AsbUwr, I always keep a pair handy<BR>
when I venture onto a strange list (and this one certainly qualifies ;-)).<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:23:27 -0500<BR>
> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Why *NOT* drop tanks?<BR>
> <BR>
> On 25 Mar 2000 at 01:30 (GMT -0500), dalton.spence@hwcn.org wrote:<BR>
> >Subject: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
> <<<SNIP>>><BR>
> <<<SNIP>>><BR>
> <<<SNIP>>><BR>
> 	Heh, it's not long anymore, LOL.  :-><BR>
<BR>
The reply probably will be though.<BR>
<BR>
> 	Wow, great crosspost, Dalton.  Thanks.  Lots of handy info, and very<BR>
> timely to the threads on the TML too.  That was very cool.  I also enjoyed<BR>
> the Firesign Theatre "Department of Redundancy Depart" reference.  All hail<BR>
> Lennon & Marx....er all hail Firesign Theatre.<BR>
<BR>
I really didn't know where it was from, just that it was an old joke that<BR>
seemed appropriate.<BR>
 <BR>
> 	Were long term jump capacitors added in GT, or which version?  It's a<BR>
> pretty neatly done handwave.<BR>
<BR>
No, the first (and *only*) time I heard of them was in the old TNS article<BR>
I quoted. The rest, as you said, was handwaving.<BR>
<BR>
> 	What's this about "...a minor Vilani subject race crashed on Terra circa<BR>
> - -2574 Imperial."?  I must have missed something.<BR>
<BR>
According to the timeline on GT p.15-19, Solomani space exploration began<BR>
in -2562 (1959 AD). What happened twelve years earlier? (Hint: weather<BR>
balloon.)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:45:25 +1100<BR>
> From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
> Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<snip> <BR>
<BR>
> Three days, huh. I guess that means you missed the Elephant-Mounted Particle<BR>
> Accelerator and the TL6 1100 kmh Rocket Bike.<BR>
<BR>
I caught the tail end of that. Is there an FAQ for the list "in-jokes"? <BR>
 <BR>
> > > The issue of "The viability and utility of external drop tanks for<BR>
> > > jump fuel"  was only briefly addressed by a single paragraph on<BR>
> > > p.108 of "GT: Far Trader." Since the mechanics of this technology<BR>
> > > were not explored at all, I didn't think much about it until I came<BR>
> > > across the following articles in the TNS archives.<BR>
> <BR>
> It was debated a bit during development of GT:FT. Basically along the lines<BR>
> of "how the heck do we stop them being used".<BR>
<BR>
Uhm... actually, after re-reading the GT description of how jump drives<BR>
work (p.120), I discovered there was already a barrier in place. It says<BR>
"a portion (of the L-Hyd) is used as jump-drive coolant*, and a portion is<BR>
vented into jumpspace as part of the process of creating the jump "bubble"<BR>
which seperates and insulates the ship from jumpspace." If so, at least<BR>
part of the fuel must be available to the ship *after* it has jumped. This<BR>
may contradict various aspects of CT canon, but IGTU there is no lanthanum<BR>
grid. (At least not yet.)<BR>
 <BR>
<snip> <BR>
> > > 1.) They are complex to use. Rather than just feed the jump drive<BR>
> > >     and go, the crew must:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >     a - Feed the long storage jump capacitor (LSJC).<BR>
> <BR>
> This is my big problem with the idea of drop tanks - if we have some sort of<BR>
> new high capacity capacitor, then on behalf of Famile Spofulam, I want the<BR>
> full technical specs to allow a radical reduction in the size of our<BR>
> Particle Accelerator Weapon systems. Energy is energy, right ?<BR>
<BR>
You'd be able to use smaller elephants, right?<BR>
<BR>
<snip> <BR>
> Unfortunately, this press release is very old (like about issue 1 of JTAS).<BR>
> It is also in conflicy with other products also recognised as Traveller<BR>
> Canon, such as High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron, which allow drop<BR>
> tanks at much lower TLs.<BR>
 <BR>
It's a TNS piece but yes, it was the first. Should we just forget about<BR>
it, or maybe use it to springboard a new adventure ("Whatever happened to<BR>
that drop tank idea before the war?")? If we "forget" about the GT problem<BR>
mentioned above, lets also "forget" HG and TCS and make LDJCs a high tech<BR>
item to reduce availability.<BR>
<BR>
<snip> <BR>
> Well, it actually doesnt defeat the purpose. You ship them in on slow, cheap<BR>
> ships, and then use them on your jump-6 Express Couriers. Kind of like the<BR>
> way you ship jet fuel in tankers, I guess.<BR>
<BR>
I'm trying to make drop tanks harder, not easier.<BR>
 <BR>
> > > >  L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost per<BR>
> > > >  jump. However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo tonnage<BR>
> > > >  resulting from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more than<BR>
> > > >  makes up for this, the press release explained.<BR>
> <BR>
> Given the technology, why cant they be made re-usable ?<BR>
<BR>
See above. Also, a reusable tank would probably be heavier and harder to<BR>
blast safely away from the ship's 100D limit.<BR>
 <BR>
> > > 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
> > >     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
> > >     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
> > >     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
> > >     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
> > >     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
> <BR>
> I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive misjump<BR>
> insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew and<BR>
> passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
<BR>
Well YMMV, but personally I prefer the crew to be in charge of the ship's<BR>
destiny. You can never tell who your "rescuers" will be, what they intend<BR>
or when they will arrive. (Ever here of wreckers?)<BR>
 <BR>
<snip> <BR>
> > (Note 3: I wrote this *before* I joined TML, and had no idea the<BR>
> > concept of a J-6 X-boat network was being so hotly debated. FWIW, I<BR>
> > agree that whatever the long term benefits, the immediate effects<BR>
> > would be rather uncomfortable and disruptive to the status quo.)<BR>
> <BR>
> It isnt really that hotly debated. It's more that the debate has just<BR>
> cropped up again.<BR>
> <BR>
> My personal solution as a GM is to say "Sure. Go ahead. Feel free. You can<BR>
> even buy re-usable ones for 10 times the cost. By the way, the expected<BR>
> misjump chance is about 1 in 126, with about half of those being lethal".<BR>
<BR>
Does this mean you want to add *another* 3d6 roll on top of the Piloting,<BR>
Astrogation and Mechanic skill rolls for the jump (GT p.121), with a<BR>
natural 18 meaning you flip a coin for misjump or disaster? <BR>
 <BR>
> This means that your Drop Tank Express has an expected life of about 256<BR>
> jumps, which at a jump every 10 days means about 8 years before it can<BR>
> expect to be lost with all hands in jump space. Have fun with those new<BR>
> Return on Investment equations.<BR>
<BR>
Gee, given the regular skill rolls for jumps described above, it would<BR>
probably be gone even before that. (Oh dear, this is distressing.)<BR>
<BR>
> On the other hand, it means you can use Drop Tanks in their proper role,<BR>
> which is for deep-penetration missions into enemy space (puts everything<BR>
> within 8 parsecs of the border within the range of a jump-4 squadron). Heck,<BR>
> the extra 0.5% chance of loss will be rounding error in those sort of<BR>
> missions.<BR>
 <BR>
All Imperial Navy ships would have to be retrofitted to allow the use of<BR>
drop tanks just in case of war. Still, its the best reasoning I've seen<BR>
yet.<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |         The green wand is cosmic. FNORD!         |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:54:21 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
>now that would ALMOST be worth the effort.<BR>
><BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>For extra points use tiny LEDs instead of beads, and run the wires to a<BR>
>>control unit so you can light up any star or stars at will. That'd make<BR>
>>IDing stars easier, as well as visualizing routes.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard, have you been to the Smithsonian in DC lately? They've got<BR>
a starmap just as you describe, in a large cylinder. Best real-life<BR>
"special effect" I've seen in a while, made me feel like I was looking<BR>
over my Navigator's shoulder at a sector map displayed in a Holotank.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:04:28 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  Now, personally I am more in favor of a d20 or d% system simply because<BR>
> the odds are quite a bit simpler to determine and I've never really learned<BR>
> the<BR>
> rules/odds to craps ;-)<BR>
<BR>
 - Bring a big bankroll and play the back (house) line.<BR>
 - Don't play the sexy bets.<BR>
 - When you're rolling bet the pass line, but don't bet odds on it<BR>
 - When you're rolling, bet the come line<BR>
 - Be patient.  IIRC, craps is the game with the least advantage for the house<BR>
(in the neighborhood of 7% for the pass/don't pass bet.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2187<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2188<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Black Curtain?<BR>
Thanks for info<BR>
Black Curtain?<BR>
Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
re: Gambling skill<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Everything Old is New Again<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Classes or Not? (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re:  More GT:Starports Splutters<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
RE: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
RE: DGP-GDW taped seminars<BR>
Re: gambling<BR>
Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:04:14 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/26/00 at 08:27 AM,  Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>I think discovering what this "Wave" was and how to mitigate it's<BR>
>>effects on the Imperium was a Class A priority for Stephron.  It was<BR>
>>also something that needed to remain secret until more information<BR>
>>was gained.  That's why he was there in secret when Dulinor's attack<BR>
>>came down. <BR>
<BR>
>And that's why he suddenly decided that Deneb needed its own Archduke? Or<BR>
>at least part of the reason, adding to the administrative requirements he<BR>
>sees?<BR>
<BR>
Could be.  Notice also that there are "hints" of strange things happening in the Marches both in TNS repots and BtC. Me thinks, Loren has something up his sleeve besides his arm. <g><BR>
<BR>
>>In the GT timeline, there is no Dulinor attack.  There is also no<BR>
>>official word about the Empress Wave. Perhaps it doesn't exist.<BR>
<BR>
>I doubt that it does not exist. In the GT book, there is said "the reason<BR>
>why Strephon was absent from Capital remains the same in both universes".<BR>
<BR>
We'll see. As I said above, Loren has *something* in mind.<BR>
<BR>
>>-- The Black Curtain --<BR>
>><BR>
>>Or "Here there be monsters!"<BR>
>[snip]<BR>
>>Then there was a "black curtain" drawn on the map encompassing<BR>
>>Capital and dozens of parsecs around it.  What was inside the "black<BR>
>>curtain" was *not* detailed in the original book.  We were told that<BR>
>>it was going to be developed by GDW as they spun out the TNE story.<BR>
>>Later there were hints that this was a "Virus Empire", and that has<BR>
>>become the accepted version of what is in there, but the truth is WE<BR>
>>DON'T REALLY KNOW what's back there.<BR>
>><BR>
>>It is unlikely the TNE timeline will be officially followed up, so<BR>
>>IMO, whatever is behind the "black curtain" is whatever the<BR>
>>individual GM wants to put there.  Maybe it's a partnership between<BR>
>>Virus and the K'kree...borg'kreee anyone? <g><BR>
<BR>
>Thank you for telling the "story".<BR>
<BR>
You're welcome. I think I can be fairly objective in my telling of it. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 06:08:27 +1000<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Thanks for info<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the help on Traveller wounds to all those who responded.<BR>
<BR>
Much appreciated.<BR>
<BR>
SEC: Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:11:22 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Black Curtain?<BR>
<BR>
On 03/26/00 at 08:22 AM,  Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de> said:<BR>
<BR>
>><< When did all that happen? Where is that "Black Curtain"?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In short: What's the story?  >><BR>
>><BR>
>>Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the final <BR>
>>details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything else I<BR>
>know <BR>
>>on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
<BR>
>Perhaps Marc Miller could write a book where it's all explained in<BR>
>detail? I'm sure most of the collectors on this list would buy it, so...<BR>
<BR>
If I'm not mistaken, Marc Miller was out of GDW when all this was happening. After GDW was liquidated Marc got the rights to Traveller in, I think, all versions. So, although Marc owns the rights from what I've read it's more Dave Nilsen's story to tell. It's possible that Dave can't tell that story without permission from Marc. It's also possible that he *could*, but chooses not to. <BR>
<BR>
I suppose a lot of this is what Loren can't talk about. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:14:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >  Now, personally I am more in favor of a d20 or d% system simply because<BR>
> > the odds are quite a bit simpler to determine and I've never<BR>
> really learned<BR>
> > the<BR>
> > rules/odds to craps ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>  - Bring a big bankroll and play the back (house) line.<BR>
>  - Don't play the sexy bets.<BR>
>  - When you're rolling bet the pass line, but don't bet odds on it<BR>
>  - When you're rolling, bet the come line<BR>
>  - Be patient.  IIRC, craps is the game with the least advantage<BR>
> for the house<BR>
> (in the neighborhood of 7% for the pass/don't pass bet.<BR>
<BR>
Gambling is a tax on people who don't understand mathematics. I have lots of<BR>
stories from back in the old days, when I used to teach probability and<BR>
statistics to undergraduates, which are too far off-topic to relate, but<BR>
which elaborate on this. I am also reminded of one student who came to class<BR>
complaining that she went to my office during scheduled office hours, but I<BR>
wasn't there. Right room number, wrong building.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway...<BR>
<BR>
Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:22:51 -0500<BR>
From: Walt Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Gambling skill<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player <BR>
>wthTraveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
>player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
>play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
The most cinematically dramatic gambling games involve other players,<BR>
even in casinos. Check out James Bond playing cards in a casino<BR>
against a big baddie.<BR>
<BR>
When other players are involved, beating them makes sense as an<BR>
effect of gambling skills - better knowledge of probability, tactics,<BR>
strategy, and especially how to "play" the other players.<BR>
<BR>
I can't see Gambling skill doing much good if the character is buying<BR>
a lottery ticket, or standing in front of a slot machine - except, as you<BR>
said, figuring out the odds.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:57:31 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Gambling is a tax on people who don't understand mathematics.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Anyway...<BR>
> <BR>
> Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
> Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
> player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
> play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
My take is that the best uses of Gambling skill are in the following<BR>
situations:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Social gambling.  In these situations, the primary goal is to meet<BR>
possible patrons or other useful people.  Gambling skill will enable the<BR>
character to game without embarassment.  Actual winnings are not all<BR>
that important in this case.<BR>
<BR>
2.  Informal gambling.  Here, the character is trying to win money from<BR>
other characters (PCs and NPCs), in a fairly informal setting. <BR>
Obviously, in such reasonably-equal settings, the more skill a character<BR>
has, the better chance he/she/it has of winning.<BR>
<BR>
3.  Casino gambling (as player).  As noted above, casino games are all<BR>
set up to favor the house.  However, knowledge of gambling principles<BR>
and techniques (such as card-counting in blackjack) can help shift the<BR>
odds toward the character with Gambling skill, at least in those games<BR>
with a skill element (in other words, no amount of Gambling skill will<BR>
be of much help with video crack ^h^h^h^h^h poker).<BR>
<BR>
4.  Casino gambling (as employee).  Characters with Gambling skill may<BR>
be able to gain employment with casinos.  Here, the primary reward is<BR>
not winnings, but a reasonably steady paycheck.<BR>
<BR>
5.  Cheating.  One may use Gambling skill to cheat in any of the above<BR>
situations.  Note that there will be repercussions to getting caught.<BR>
<BR>
6.  Lotteries.  Gambling skill won't help a character win the lottery. <BR>
OTOH, Gambling skill will enable those characters who _do_ wish to waste<BR>
^h^h^h^h^h play the lottery to determine the best plays that to maximize<BR>
the chances of winning something.  To model this in a game, increase the<BR>
chance of winning, and decrease the amount won (in other words, Gambling<BR>
skill will tend to steer lottery players toward the low-payoff,<BR>
relatively high-percentage combinations).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:53:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:22 AM<BR>
Subject: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Anyway...<BR>
><BR>
>Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
>Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
>player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
>play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
Yes all casino-type games favor the house but the trick is finding ones that<BR>
depend more on skill then luck. One example is card games vs. random games.<BR>
Cards games all need some skill to be good at. Luck games like slot machines<BR>
and dice don't have much skill in them.<BR>
<BR>
So now you are seated at a card gaming table with skill now what do you do.<BR>
Poker and blackjack are the 2 examples I'll use because I won a good bit<BR>
from them. With black jack you have to remind your self that you have to<BR>
play against the dealer and not the other ppl at the table. this is the<BR>
first reason alot of ppl lose. And from there you have other rules of thumb<BR>
that help you play. same with poker.<BR>
Now it's lot less gambling.<BR>
and more skill based<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:59:51 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Everything Old is New Again<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, now we have confirmation that the GURPS list has discovered both Drop<BR>
> Tanks and the Empress Wave.  Can Piracy, Near-C Rocks (or lifeboats) or<BR>
> female Aslan in comfortable shoes be far behind?<BR>
<BR>
Sure if we can start a flame war here about biscuit receipes, which is<BR>
theultimate melee weapon the tomahawk or the katana, and the ever so<BR>
popular battlesuit war.....<BR>
<BR>
> It sounds like someone needs to post the FAQ(s) there, and/or set up a<BR>
> pointer to a site where they can be found...<BR>
<BR>
Well yes maybe...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:57:25 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
On 03/25/00 at 11:14 PM,  "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player<BR>
>with Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill<BR>
>give the player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best<BR>
>know not to play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something<BR>
>else?<BR>
<BR>
It gives the character the gumption to *be* the house? <g><BR>
<BR>
Besides not all games of chance are against the house. Some, private games are a fair mixture of luck and skill. Gambling skill should help with those. It should also help the character spot crooked games.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:11:49 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Classes or Not? (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
This is my Cr 0.02 on the debate about classes in various RPG systems:<BR>
<BR>
1.  As I see it, there are three basic categories of RPGs, using a<BR>
class/skill based taxonomy:<BR>
<BR>
	a.  Class-based chargen systems.  D&D, AD&D1, and AD&D2 fall into this<BR>
category.  In class-based systems, the player's choice of character<BR>
class during character creation is the primary influence over what that<BR>
character can do during the subsequent campaign.  No AD&D1 non-thief<BR>
character, for instance, can learn to pick locks, even if a thief<BR>
character (PC or NPC) is willing to teach the skill.  In order for a<BR>
human character to change classes, he/she/it must avoid using any of<BR>
his/her/its old class abilities until that character's level has<BR>
advanced beyond the previous class' level.  Demihumans don't even have<BR>
that option.  Even such things as resisting the effects of poisons (in<BR>
D&D/AD&D) are based on the initial choice of character class.<BR>
<BR>
	b.  Skill-based chargen systems.  GURPS and (IIRC) the Hero system fall<BR>
under this category.  In skill-based systems, the player is essentially<BR>
free to choose whatever skills, advantages, and/or disadvantages<BR>
he/she/it desires, based solely on the player's character concept.  In<BR>
play, the only differences between characters are in the interactions<BR>
between skill levels, attributes, and the game system itself.  In other<BR>
words, a character who is a college student, and bought a skill level in<BR>
rifle, can shoot just as effectively as a young soldier with the same<BR>
skill level in rifle, assuming that both have the same governing<BR>
attribute (say, Dexterity).<BR>
<BR>
	c.  "Guided" skill-based chargen systems.  Traveller (at least CT, T4,<BR>
and GT) falls under this category, as does T:2K (all editions).  In<BR>
guided systems, skill availability during chargen is influenced by<BR>
initial choice of career.  Depending on the specific ruelset, characters<BR>
may be allowed to change careers during chargen.  Once chargen is<BR>
complete, task resolution is as per skill-based systems (e.g., in CT,<BR>
any character with Rifle-1 and 7 Dex has an identical chance to hit). <BR>
Note the contrast with class-based systems, in which the original choice<BR>
of class has ongoing repercussions.  It has been my experience that the<BR>
guided chargen systems noted above tend to produce older, more-skilled<BR>
characters than class-based systems.  This may just be a reflection of<BR>
the "corporate philosophy" of GDW (publishers of CT and T:2K, whose<BR>
alumni have been the driving force behind T4 and GT).<BR>
<BR>
2.  Note that there is no real relation between chargen system and game<BR>
sophistication ("generation").  GURPS did not suddenly regress by adding<BR>
character templates ("guided" chargen) in GT, and T4 (another guided<BR>
chargen system) is not automatically less sophisticated than the Hero<BR>
(skill-based) system.<BR>
<BR>
3.  A simple test can help determine the type of characters produced by<BR>
a given game system.  Ask the players what kind of character they are<BR>
playing.  In class-based systems, players will usually identify with the<BR>
character's class ("I'm playing a fighter/thief.").  With skill-based<BR>
systems, players will often identify with the character's intended role<BR>
in the group ("I'm playing the 'Wall o'Beef' in our superhero game.") <BR>
In guided systems, players generally refer to the character's chargen<BR>
profession in the past tense ("I'm playing an ex-Navy flight<BR>
officer.").  It's not a perfect test, but it seems to work a fair amount<BR>
of the time.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:09:31 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Being as the this will be on Topic for the subject line<BR>
<BR>
And chain mail has been discussed......<BR>
<BR>
Any body want to expound on the merits of Bonded Superdense<BR>
cyclone fencing? Me I am in favor of the optional Resin bonded<BR>
cloth slats, or at least around all the better starship salvage yards.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:33:23 -0500<BR>
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  More GT:Starports Splutters<BR>
<BR>
William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net> sez,<BR>
<BR>
>Look on page 35 of GT:Starports.  Bottom picture of the security scan.<BR>
>Our terrorist seems to be well equipped for a 'weekend holiday' and is<BR>
>armed with...<BR>
><BR>
>FSA-401 Gauss Carbine<BR>
>XTA-S/99 9mm Auto Pistol<BR>
>Some grenades and other weapons.<BR>
<BR>
Specifically, three Ling-Standard Products Hi-Ex Grenades, and a"Nikh C-1"<BR>
Machine Pistol.  I can no longer recall what "Nikh" was supposed to stand<BR>
for; I suspect it's a typo for "Makh", for "Makhidkarun", or maybe I made<BR>
it up on the spot.  Must've been rushing to meet deadline...<BR>
<BR>
>Great job you artist types.  Keep up the Splutters!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks muchly!<BR>
<BR>
 + GMG +<BR>
<BR>
 ------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------<BR>
                       <neo@total.net><BR>
  "The surest sign that there is intelligent life elsewhere in<BR>
 the universe is that they have never attempted to contact us."<BR>
             --Bill Watterson, _Calvin & Hobbes_<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:21:51 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> It gives the character the gumption to *be* the house? <g><BR>
<BR>
"It's the oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York." <BR>
[from "Guys and Dolls"]<BR>
<BR>
Later on:  "Seeing as how I assume the risk, is it not fair that I<BR>
should assume some dough?"<BR>
<BR>
Now that I think about it, any referee planning to run a game in which<BR>
gambling plays a key role ought to watch "Guys and Dolls" as<BR>
preparation.  (Of course, IMHO, _everyone_ should watch "Guys and Dolls"<BR>
at least once.  Good movie!)<BR>
> <BR>
> Besides not all games of chance are against the house. Some, private games are a fair mixture of luck and skill. Gambling skill should help with those. It should also help the character spot crooked games.<BR>
<BR>
I missed the point about detecting crooked games in my previous post in<BR>
this thread (although I sort of discussed the character _running_ a<BR>
crooked game, under Point #5 [cheating]).  Good point.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:21:27 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 03/26/00 at 12:09 AM,  Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Being as the this will be on Topic for the subject line<BR>
<BR>
>And chain mail has been discussed......<BR>
<BR>
>Any body want to expound on the merits of Bonded Superdense<BR>
>cyclone fencing? Me I am in favor of the optional Resin bonded cloth<BR>
>slats, or at least around all the better starship salvage yards.<BR>
<BR>
Nah! The fences around starship salvage yards should be a eclectic mixture of plywood, plastic panels, old rusted side panels from crashed air/rafts and any other salvaged junk the owner doesn't think he can sell, all topped with barbed wire. And don't forget the required "junk yard dogs!"  <BR>
<BR>
Say, Bruce, is Ricardo ever going to go play with the "crokers" at Pete's-U-Pull-It salvage yard?  Maybe after he gets a snout full of beersies in Startown? <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:25:57 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
On 03/26/00 at 02:21 AM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><<snip>><BR>
>> <BR>
>> It gives the character the gumption to *be* the house? <g><BR>
<BR>
>"It's the oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York." <BR>
>[from "Guys and Dolls"]<BR>
<BR>
>Later on:  "Seeing as how I assume the risk, is it not fair that I should<BR>
>assume some dough?"<BR>
<BR>
>Now that I think about it, any referee planning to run a game in which<BR>
>gambling plays a key role ought to watch "Guys and Dolls" as preparation. <BR>
>(Of course, IMHO, _everyone_ should watch "Guys and Dolls" at least once. <BR>
>Good movie!)<BR>
<BR>
And who said Marlon Brando can't sing? <g><BR>
<BR>
>> Besides not all games of chance are against the house. Some, private games are a fair mixture of luck and skill. Gambling skill should help with those. It should also help the character spot crooked games.<BR>
<BR>
>I missed the point about detecting crooked games in my previous post in<BR>
>this thread (although I sort of discussed the character _running_ a<BR>
>crooked game, under Point #5 [cheating]).  Good point.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, although your post was better. I liked the class one too, but I'm trying to stop posting on that subject. I've spent most of the day and well past my bedtime on this when I *should* have been working on some background stuff for my PBEM's. <g>  <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:47:54 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Btw, do you own a pair<BR>
> of asbestos underwear?  <g><BR>
<BR>
Oh and a welded link chainmail cod peice can save you a lot of grief.....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:57:18 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Any body want to expound on the merits of Bonded Superdense<BR>
> >cyclone fencing? Me I am in favor of the optional Resin bonded cloth<BR>
> >slats, or at least around all the better starship salvage yards.<BR>
><BR>
> Nah! The fences around starship salvage yards should be a eclectic mixture of plywood, plastic panels, old rusted side panels from crashed air/rafts and any other salvaged junk the owner doesn't think he can sell, all topped with barbed wire. And don't forget the required "junk yard dogs!"<BR>
<BR>
Damn.... Now that is a encounter in the making....<BR>
<BR>
Junkyard Vargr........<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Damn gonna have to write up some NPCs now too good to squander.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:06:03 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chauncey<BR>
> Smith<BR>
> Sent: Sunday, 26 March 2000 13:27<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Classes in travellerRe: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I believe games have a technology all their own. As such it should be able<BR>
> to talk about it in the same way as you talk about automobiles.<BR>
<BR>
I agree. And the terminology has already been defined, and most of the<BR>
definitions hashed out, in discusion of r.g.f.a several years ago.<BR>
<BR>
> I believe that the Classes in a second generation system like Traveller or<BR>
> other games like it.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry, but that sentence makes no sense.<BR>
<BR>
> Yes you can create cross over characters but they do have classes<BR>
> even if it's the mustering out benefits are different.<BR>
<BR>
There are no classes in Traveller full stop.<BR>
<BR>
While the careers in Classic and Mega Traveller can be used in a similar way<BR>
to classes for character _generation_ purposes, once generation is complete,<BR>
the careers have no game mechanic meaning at all, and represent only a<BR>
social structure.<BR>
<BR>
Whereas, in D&D and other class-based/level-based system, the classes have<BR>
game mechanical effects for the entire period of play, not just character<BR>
generation.<BR>
<BR>
Once you move into TNE, T4, or GT, then the careers bear even less<BR>
relationship to classes.<BR>
<BR>
> I believe that Classes in a general since only means that you're given<BR>
> different choices in skills and have different options open to you. it<BR>
> doesn't have to be some way of doing things just choices and options.<BR>
<BR>
Again, this sentence makes no sense.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:08:39 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: DGP-GDW taped seminars<BR>
<BR>
>    Also, is any in possession of High Passage #1 and is it worth while to<BR>
> buy it (other its value as a collector).<BR>
<BR>
Yes & Yes<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:28:55 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: gambling<BR>
<BR>
>From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
...<BR>
> - Bring a big bankroll and play the back (house) line.<BR>
> - Don't play the sexy bets.<BR>
> - When you're rolling bet the pass line, but don't bet odds on it<BR>
> - When you're rolling, bet the come line<BR>
> - Be patient.  IIRC, craps is the game with the least advantage for the house<BR>
>(in the neighborhood of 7% for the pass/don't pass bet.<BR>
<BR>
  Hmm, I was just told this evening that blackjack is the safest odds...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:38:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: No...Classes in traveller Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> I'd say GURPS is a Skill based system that uses the distribution of Points<BR>
to define a character's skills, attributes, gifts and faults.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed if you have only Class or Skills based systems. There are<BR>
points-based systems that are not skills-based though, albeit very few.<BR>
<BR>
> I'd say Traveller is a Skill based system that uses Random Rolls of dice<BR>
to define a character's skills, attributes, and..to a limited degree..gifts<BR>
and faults.<BR>
<BR>
With careers limiting the options on skill choice, and starting equipment.<BR>
<BR>
> It's been a while since I even looked at a TSR game, so perhaps I'm wrong,<BR>
but I'd classify D&D as a Class based system that used Random Rolls to<BR>
define stats. Last I looked AD&D was much the same.<BR>
<BR>
For the most part- D&D, AD&D, and 2nd edition are all as you state here. In<BR>
all reality 2nd edition is an expansion and revision of 1st edition of<BR>
course- very few real differences.<BR>
<BR>
> Off hand I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are some, Class based<BR>
systems that distribute Points to define stats.<BR>
<BR>
This is funny, because I couldn't think of any either- although I am sure<BR>
that there are. I have done a point system for stats in AD&D though :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Jesse, we simply aren't going to agree on terms here. In your opinion,<BR>
classes are X and Traveller careers fit within the scope of X. In my opinion<BR>
classes are Y and Traveller carrers don't fit within the scope of Y.<BR>
> Eris<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
<BR>
You're probably right and I'll agree to disagree on this one- I was mostly<BR>
just pointing out why I classified it as such. Thanks for the discussion and<BR>
not trying to press a point on it though :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2188<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2189</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2189<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Class based systems<BR>
Re: Classes in traveller (Long)<BR>
Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
RE: Arlo's Alice<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Classes or Not? (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Guys and Dolls (was d20 system then Gambling skill)<BR>
Re: gambling<BR>
Re: Gambling skill <BR>
Re: Guys and Dolls (was Re: Gambling skill)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:04:55 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
<BR>
>     However, in light of your disagreement, I will give you my<BR>
> view on why I<BR>
> called it a class-based system and this IS in light of CT and MT rules as<BR>
> those are the only ones that I have had the privilege of using.<BR>
>     There are three basic types of system: Class-based, Skills-based, and<BR>
> Points-based. Some very specific features tend to make them what they<BR>
> are.<BR>
<BR>
Well, there are several others as well, but lets look at these for now.<BR>
<BR>
>     Class-based uses a Class/Profession/Template or whatever else you<BR>
> want to call it to "restrict" characters and add balance to the game. This<BR>
> is what Traveller does in contrast to the other two systems.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, but I don't agree that Traveller restricts characters in this way.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, the career tables restrict skill availablity,  _not_ to add balance to<BR>
the game (at least, if they were designed to do so, they fail miserably at<BR>
this) but to create a more believable set of skills for a character that has<BR>
chosen a particular profession.<BR>
<BR>
CT restricts characters who are generated via the career tables quite<BR>
heavily for a modern game, but for the period it was written it gives a lot<BR>
of choices.<BR>
<BR>
More importantly, the CT career tables only affect generation of the<BR>
character,  Once generated, the character's profession has _no_effect_ on<BR>
the game mechanics (except in a "social" way, he ex-Scout geting better lead<BR>
on the Scouts bar, etc.)<BR>
<BR>
Marines do not get better odds at hitting with a weapon than a scout does,<BR>
for example, and there are no rules preventing scouts from using heavy<BR>
machine guns.<BR>
or preventing engineers from wearing battle-dress.<BR>
<BR>
Class-based systems have mechanical constraints that continue to affect the<BR>
character during play.<BR>
<BR>
If pushed, I would agree that CT and MT _generation_ is loosely class-based,<BR>
but  both _run-times_ are not.<BR>
<BR>
A truly "class-based" Traveller generation system would not have Marines,<BR>
Scouts, Navy, Merchant, etc., but Pilot, Engineer, Soldier, Steward<BR>
"classes".<BR>
<BR>
In Traveller you can come up with exactly the same set of skills and stats ,<BR>
whether the career was Navy, Scouts, or Merchant. It's not likely,<BR>
admittedly, but it is possible.<BR>
<BR>
>     Skills-based systems completely throw away the idea of occupational<BR>
> restriction and rely on a generation system where you either roll or spend<BR>
> points on skills, powers, and what-not.<BR>
<BR>
Daredevils, Shadowrun, and many others are purely skill-based, but they<BR>
restrict the available skills to the careers your character takes, though<BR>
they largely do not restrict entry or exit to careers. This is the same as<BR>
for Twilight 2000, James Bond, T4, & TNE. (Though I believe James Bond only<BR>
restricts knowledges in this way)<BR>
<BR>
Runequest also restricts the available skills to those available in your<BR>
home village and to your social class and parents profession, but is again a<BR>
skill-based system.<BR>
<BR>
>     Points-based systems generally throw away the random rolls and usually<BR>
> do the same with classes using points to determine everything...<BR>
<BR>
>     Here's my take on some examples of each type...<BR>
> Class-based: D&D, AD&D, White Wolf, Traveller, Twilight 2000 2nd ed or<BR>
> later.<BR>
<BR>
Try arguing that White Wolf stuff is "class-based" on a WW mailing list !<BR>
<BR>
I partially agree with you, but would point out that unlike Traveller, the<BR>
White Wolf "classes" do continue to have some mechanical effects on the<BR>
runtime of the game.<BR>
<BR>
But, still, WW classes have so few restrictions, that they are more like<BR>
stereotypes than classes, nothing mechanical in the game prevents a Ventrue<BR>
from learning Animalism ( normally a Gangrel or Nosferatu discipline) , for<BR>
instance, and they _could_ do so, as long as they're willing to endure the<BR>
_social_ rather than mechanical consequences of doing so.<BR>
<BR>
> Skills-based: The Fantasy Trip (TFT), Twilight 2000 v:1, James Bond<BR>
><BR>
> Points-based: The Hero System, Car Wars, Star Fleet Battles, and most<BR>
> Strategy games.<BR>
<BR>
Again, the Hero System is a skill-based / stat-based runtime, only it's<BR>
character generation is point-based.<BR>
<BR>
There are very few point-based RPG runtimes.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, there are other approaches to character generation as well, including<BR>
the narrative-based approach, and the DIP (design-in-play) approach, though<BR>
the latter is not specifically supported by very many systems.<BR>
<BR>
> > Traveler uses a skill-based system, and has no character classes, just<BR>
> > careers, which you can easily move between. Admittedly the CT<BR>
> rules didn't<BR>
> > talk much about moving between careers, but they didn't<BR>
> explicitly forbid<BR>
> > it. Later systems (TNE) expected changes in career.<BR>
><BR>
>     This is merely "semantics" of what you call the classes.<BR>
<BR>
I disagree.<BR>
<BR>
> You can move between "careers" in AD&D/D&D as well.<BR>
> It is called "duel-classing" as opposed to multi-classing.<BR>
><BR>
>     When you pick up a new class, you quit using the old and progressing<BR>
> along it. When you pick up a new career in Traveller, you quit progressing<BR>
> along the old as well.<BR>
<BR>
So, are you allowed a dual-classed fighter-magic who isn't a half-elf or<BR>
half-orc now?<BR>
<BR>
The point is that in D&D you must change _classes_ not careers.<BR>
<BR>
This means more than just getting a new employer, which is all it could mean<BR>
in Traveller, as it will have very specific game mechanic effects on you in<BR>
play.<BR>
<BR>
In Traveller, you could change from Navy to Scouts and it could have<BR>
_no_affect_ on your character (other than perhaps promotion opportunities) .<BR>
You could just do the same job for a different employer.<BR>
<BR>
(Of course if we're restricting it to pure CT, you can't change, but then<BR>
you couldn't dual-class in in Classic D&D either )<BR>
<BR>
> > D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
><BR>
> Traveller uses a level-based system with character careers. While<BR>
> different in many of the mechanics, it is still a class-based system.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller definitely doesn't have "levels".<BR>
<BR>
In fact CT had _no_ means of in-game mechanics-based enhancement.<BR>
(until the Instruction skill in Book 4, at any rate)<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:41:09 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Class based systems<BR>
<BR>
>> Off hand I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are some, Class based<BR>
>systems that distribute Points to define stats.<BR>
><BR>
>This is funny, because I couldn't think of any either- although I am sure<BR>
>that there are. I have done a point system for stats in AD&D though :-)<BR>
<BR>
  "Ars Magica", sort of?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:35:02 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in traveller (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Chauncey wrote:<BR>
> All of this I have one question that keeps buring in my mind. Is it bad to<BR>
> have classes?<BR>
> I personally don't feel that weather it has classes and skills or just<BR>
> classes is a good or bad thing. it's just a thing.<BR>
<BR>
Hey Chauncey,<BR>
<BR>
    I had to take the bait on this one. Which type of system to use is<BR>
actually dependant in what you wish to portray in your game. Below<BR>
is a run-down of what I have observed and think is reasoning to use<BR>
the different systems.<BR>
    Before going into that, realize that all of the systems have an<BR>
integral balancing mechanism to them, or at least they should. With<BR>
that out of the way, here we go...<BR>
<BR>
    Class-based systems tend to be more team-oriented than non-<BR>
classed systems. They also allow for more "heroic" and fantastic<BR>
characters since the characters grow in power by leaps and bounds.<BR>
    Advantages to such a system are that they allow you a very fast<BR>
character generation and give you an almost instant balancing<BR>
technique as everything in the game hinges on those levels.<BR>
<BR>
    Next are your Career systems (although IMO, I call them class<BR>
based still). These systems generally stick with the team-oriented<BR>
structure, but throw out the "heroics" by making power increases<BR>
slimmer.<BR>
    As has been pointed out by others in this thread, they do tend to<BR>
be more realistic, and they are less restrictive since everything in<BR>
the game generally becomes available to the character- he just has<BR>
to decide what he wants and how he is going to get it.<BR>
<BR>
    Skills-based systems generally give you either sets of skills to<BR>
choose, or sets to roll from. Most characters are virtually the same,<BR>
or very close to the same with the skills defining the character.<BR>
    There are very few skills-based games. Most tend to be point or<BR>
Class-based. However, the biggest determination of skills-based is<BR>
the fact that skills take precedence over everything else just as class<BR>
does in a class-based system.<BR>
    Advantages to these systems are that characters can choose to<BR>
have any skill that they want while not needing to take a bunch of<BR>
"useless" ones to get it. Characters can be tailored much better to<BR>
the player's conception.<BR>
<BR>
    Points-based systems basically say that you can do anything and<BR>
be anything as long as you have the points to do it. These systems<BR>
tend to take very careful thought on the Referee's part to keep in<BR>
balance.<BR>
    Such systems tend to abound with loop-holes for min/maxers and<BR>
rules lawyers to abuse, and most of them that I have seen take quite<BR>
a bit of time to do a character up in.<BR>
    Abilities of the characters also tend to overlap as the more useful<BR>
or popular skills are taken by just about everybody and become seen<BR>
as "necessary" to survive.<BR>
    Advantages of this type of system are that a player who is truly<BR>
into RPGs for the purposes of playing a character are at complete<BR>
liberty to do up exactly what they conceive for a character.<BR>
    They allow for a much wider variation in types of characters as<BR>
well since you are virtually unlimited in what you create as long as<BR>
you stay within your point allotment.<BR>
<BR>
    Story systems generally say who cares about the mechanics,<BR>
we're here to have fun don't let all that stuff get in the way. These<BR>
types of systems tend to allow for the best of all of the other systems<BR>
in their own right.<BR>
    The main disadvantage to this type of system is that they do not<BR>
really tend to have much in the way of a rules structure and there are<BR>
a LOT of gray areas where judgement calls are required.<BR>
    Balance is virtually impossible to maintain, but it doesn't matter<BR>
because the story is really what counts.<BR>
    Advantages to this type of a system are that it is completely open<BR>
to interpretation by the Referee and Players. Nobody has to make<BR>
any attempt to memorize cumbersome rules and mechanics don't<BR>
bog down the game.<BR>
<BR>
    Okay, with all that said, the approach to the game is more based<BR>
on individual preference than which one is "better" or "worse". There<BR>
was earlier mention of "generations" in gaming.<BR>
    Well, Class-based systems would be 1st generation, Career/Skills<BR>
based are 2nd, point-based are 3rd, and story-telling systems are 4th<BR>
generation.<BR>
    A 4th generation game is not necessarily "more advanced" than a<BR>
1st generation one. Don't think tech levels here it doesn't work. In<BR>
calling these "generations" they are more styles placed in a<BR>
chronological order that they came out.<BR>
<BR>
    Now, my viewpoints on these systems runs like this...<BR>
<BR>
    I prefer point-based. However, I have seldom had a group mature<BR>
enough not to abuse such a system, so I usually run with a career-<BR>
based one.<BR>
    I find the class-based systems too restrictive, usually too abstract<BR>
and too unrealistic for my purposes.<BR>
    I find story-telling systems too lax in structure. When I need a hard<BR>
fast ruling- I want to look in a book and have it. I can always change<BR>
or throw out a rule that I don't like, but not having rules makes me<BR>
feel like "why did I buy a rulebook? I could have bought a story book<BR>
and would now have a good plotline with almost as much help in<BR>
the rules department".<BR>
    My apologies to those who are into the various story-teller type<BR>
systems and proponents of class-based systems. These are my<BR>
feelings, thoughts, and opinions on the matter and I am NOT<BR>
condemning your personal styles of running.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:46:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
> From: Anthony Merlock <amerlock@execpc.com><BR>
> >I hate to jump in on this discussion, but IMHO, calling Traveller a<BR>
> >class-based system is using a very different definition of 'class' than<BR>
I'm<BR>
> >used to using.<BR>
<BR>
    I would guess that the only thing you are using as a model for a<BR>
class-based system is AD&D/D&D.<BR>
<BR>
> >A class defines what a character is, and limits what a character can do.<BR>
<BR>
Like "I am a Scout and when I roll this type of duty, I get to roll this<BR>
type of<BR>
skill and you can forget about learning the one's not listed in the Scout's<BR>
generation"?<BR>
<BR>
> >The class is central to the character - and performing tasks outside the<BR>
> >limits of the class is usually difficult, if not impossible.  The class<BR>
> > also limits how the character can improve, going far beyond the extents<BR>
> >of character creation.<BR>
<BR>
    Not in all class-based systems. Most class-based systems allow for<BR>
changing classes as you advance for example. Some even force it.<BR>
<BR>
> >Fundamentally, you *can not* play a character from a class-based RPG<BR>
> >without knowing the class.  In Traveller, once the character is<BR>
generated,<BR>
> >their career is irrelevant as far as game mechanics go.<BR>
<BR>
    This is untrue. Presuming, for example, that your model is based on the<BR>
AD&D game system...<BR>
<BR>
    We write down the stats, armor class, hit points, THAC0, saving throws,<BR>
special abilities, skills, level, and experience and the game can now be<BR>
played with no reference to the class again.<BR>
    The ONLY time that you will need to know what class the character is<BR>
would be when advancing a level and ONLY if you chose not to write down<BR>
the character's experience and/or spell tables.<BR>
    Some class-based systems never use the actual class once character<BR>
generation is finished although they also tend to never give you new skills<BR>
or abilities.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:37:44 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Arlo's Alice<BR>
<BR>
Waaaah!!!!  It's been since yesterday and the original post still hasn't<BR>
shown up!  Can someone forward to me directly?<BR>
<BR>
Long time Alice's Restaurant fan,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 8:32 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Arlo's Alice<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> On 03/24/00 at 07:32 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>                         Alice's Restaurant<BR>
> >>                         ------------------<BR>
> >> words & music by                         transcribed by<BR>
> >>   Arlo Guthrie                    Russ Shipton<BR>
><BR>
> >And don't worry about the copyright. Arlo gave permission to post it on<BR>
> >the Net *years* ago. I know of at least two newsgroups where it gets<BR>
> >posted annually.<BR>
><BR>
> I was glad to see it. Haven't seen it posted before.  The only<BR>
> problem with the written lyrics is that it loses the pauses and<BR>
> tones that Arlo brings to the performance. You  have to *hear*<BR>
> it...and preferably live.<BR>
><BR>
> MAN!!! That brings back memories!<BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
> --<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:01:37 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
Greets Dave,<BR>
<BR>
> I personaly found Twilight 2000 1st to be much more rigidly "class based"<BR>
> than the 2nd edition/TNE charecter generation. YMMV. I wonder where<BR>
> you would place Rolemaster. If I understand your definitions it has<BR>
> aspects of all three types.<BR>
<BR>
    In the 1st edition you had access to all of the skills. In 2nd edition,<BR>
you did<BR>
not. The 1st edition one used points to purchase whatever skills you wanted<BR>
and in 2nd you had to switch around from class to class to get the ones<BR>
you wanted.<BR>
    For RM, whew- another game that I have not touched in years. Okay, in<BR>
answering, I have to say that I played the 1st edition game and it was a<BR>
long<BR>
time ago.<BR>
    I would place RM in the category of a class-based system as well. One of<BR>
the things that I recall was that it was very restrictive in what<BR>
skills/abilities<BR>
you could have as well.<BR>
    Race and Class both played together and your best bet was to know the<BR>
rules really well and choose a class and race that went well together in<BR>
order<BR>
to start with "average" chances of around 50% on doing things.<BR>
    Don't jump on me too badly here if my memory does not serve me<BR>
correctly on these counts- but please bring it to my attention and remind me<BR>
of how it does work :-)<BR>
<BR>
> In a typical class based system a character starts the game as a<BR>
> relatively unskilled individual who gains a restricted set of skills<BR>
> while adventuring *in game* based upon class chosen. In Traveller<BR>
> by contrast a character starts the game with a pool of skills that<BR>
> will only infrequently advance during game play. (Actual frequency<BR>
> of experience games is of course dependent on edition used and<BR>
> the personality of the game/GM.) This is a subtle difference I<BR>
> admit but the effect on the game is profound.<BR>
<BR>
    Many class-based systems start the character with a good pool of<BR>
skills and abilities that either do not advance, or advance very slowly,<BR>
just as Traveller does.<BR>
    Just a small note here, I am talking about class-based games that<BR>
use a more "traditional" class, rather than those using "packages" or<BR>
"careers".<BR>
<BR>
> >> D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
> >    Traveller uses a level-based system with character careers. While<BR>
> >different<BR>
> >in many of the mechanics, it is still a class-based system.<BR>
> In what sense is Traveller a level based system? After chargen<BR>
> a character is about as powerfull as it's ever going to get.<BR>
> Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
    The fact that you have levels for skills makes it level-based. Let<BR>
me make a clarification that class-based and level-based in this<BR>
discussion are definitely two different things.<BR>
    An example of both being level-based. Traveller task resolution<BR>
uses skill level. Each level accounts for a 1 in 11 increase in your<BR>
ability in that skill (okay staticians, I know this is simplified but it<BR>
works<BR>
for the example). AD&D's "to hit" roll increases as you go up in level<BR>
granting you a 5% increase as opposed to the 9% increase that<BR>
Traveller give you.<BR>
    Mostly, I classify Traveller as a "class-based" system because it<BR>
does restrict you on which skills you can have based upon the career<BR>
choices that you make.<BR>
    Also, let me make sure that it is stated again that I am basing all<BR>
of my posts in this thread on CT and MT as those are the only two<BR>
Traveller products that I've played/read/used.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:36:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/26/00 at 05:08 AM,  j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:<BR>
><BR>
>>It could be that what it IS and WHY he can't discuss it are<BR>
>>intertwined. As the holder of a very high clearance I understand<BR>
>>perfectly. As far as you know ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> Huh? <g> <BR>
><BR>
> I can fathom something like that in the military/government, but<BR>
> concerning a *game*?  Sure I know what non-disclosure agreements<BR>
> can be like, but still...it leaves me slack-jawed and perplexed. it<BR>
> really does.<BR>
<BR>
Settlements for lawsuits, even (heck, *especially*) out of court<BR>
settlements *often* have a clause stating that one or both parties are<BR>
forbbiden to discuss *anything* about the settlement. Sometimes, even<BR>
including the fact that there *was* a settlement.<BR>
<BR>
So, if someone involved with all that stuff sued, and GDW settled out<BR>
of court, it's quite possible that Loren *couldn't* mention the suit or<BR>
the out of court settlement. And of course, that settlement would<BR>
include not disclosing the plans for the "future" that had reverted to<BR>
the owner.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:09:11 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
> Anyway...<BR>
> Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player<BR>
with<BR>
> Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give<BR>
the<BR>
> player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
> play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
In my campaigns, I usually set the house odds to a specific level. All<BR>
gambling<BR>
does in there is tells the player what the odds are on a specific game.<BR>
Where<BR>
the advantage to gamling comes out IMC is in private games where the<BR>
character with gambling knows all the tricks (and I don't necessarily mean<BR>
the<BR>
cheats) and odds.<BR>
He is able to keep track of the cards, read the body language, hide his own<BR>
language, and if he so desires can cheat for a second roll but has a chance<BR>
of getting caught.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:17:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes or Not? (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Black ICE" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> This is my Cr 0.02 on the debate about classes in various RPG systems:<BR>
<BR>
Much good information snipped in the interest of space and time :-)<BR>
<BR>
> 3.  A simple test can help determine the type of characters produced by<BR>
> a given game system.  Ask the players what kind of character they are<BR>
> playing.  In class-based systems, players will usually identify with the<BR>
> character's class ("I'm playing a fighter/thief.").  With skill-based<BR>
> systems, players will often identify with the character's intended role<BR>
> in the group ("I'm playing the 'Wall o'Beef' in our superhero game.")<BR>
> In guided systems, players generally refer to the character's chargen<BR>
> profession in the past tense ("I'm playing an ex-Navy flight<BR>
> officer.").  It's not a perfect test, but it seems to work a fair amount<BR>
> of the time.<BR>
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
<BR>
Very good points, and your final disclaimer was a nice touch :-) The<BR>
one thought that really hit my mind here was that the guided-system<BR>
test generally precludes games where the characters are still in the<BR>
career of choice as shown in the T2k system, and would make for<BR>
good campaigns in most guided systems as well.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:19:36 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
At 22:36 25.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>So, if someone involved with all that stuff sued, and GDW settled out<BR>
>of court, it's quite possible that Loren *couldn't* mention the suit or<BR>
>the out of court settlement. And of course, that settlement would<BR>
>include not disclosing the plans for the "future" that had reverted to<BR>
>the owner.<BR>
<BR>
But it would not hinder Loren from making another "future" for GT. Sounds<BR>
as if we'll read a lot more interesting things that'll happen. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:20:18 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Guys and Dolls (was d20 system then Gambling skill)<BR>
<BR>
Black Ice wrote:<BR>
> >"It's the oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York."<BR>
> >[from "Guys and Dolls"]<BR>
> >Later on:  "Seeing as how I assume the risk, is it not fair that I should<BR>
> >assume some dough?"<BR>
> >Now that I think about it, any referee planning to run a game in which<BR>
> >gambling plays a key role ought to watch "Guys and Dolls" as preparation.<BR>
> >(Of course, IMHO, _everyone_ should watch "Guys and Dolls" at least once.<BR>
> >Good movie!)<BR>
<BR>
I second that- awesome movie. Rounders is another one that I would<BR>
suggest for gambling prep. BTW: Anybody know the odds of one raindrop<BR>
beating the other down a window? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:23:07 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: gambling<BR>
<BR>
> > - Be patient.  IIRC, craps is the game with the least advantage for the<BR>
house<BR>
> >(in the neighborhood of 7% for the pass/don't pass bet.<BR>
<BR>
>   Hmm, I was just told this evening that blackjack is the safest odds...<BR>
<BR>
That's what I had been told and that it was 7%. The next closest was either<BR>
craps or another card game at 5% but I don't recall which/what game.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:25:56 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill <BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Gambling is a tax on people who don't understand mathematics. <BR>
<BR>
A man in one of my classes described it this way:<BR>
<BR>
"My father was a banker. One summer day when I was a child<BR>
he got me up early and we drove down to his bank. We saw two<BR>
Brinks Armored cars leaving the bank. My Father told me that<BR>
each truck had one million dollars in cash in it. The trucks<BR>
were going down to the (horse) race track. The money was<BR>
going to be used to pay off the winners.<BR>
<BR>
That night after dinner he drove me back to the bank. _Six_<BR>
Brinks Armored cars were pulling up. He told me each car was<BR>
full of one million dollars in cash that the track had made.<BR>
<BR>
He said "Son, do you have any other questions about gambling?"<BR>
<BR>
I said no and I have never gambled."<BR>
<BR>
> Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
> Traveller gambling skill do? <BR>
<BR>
Get a +1 on their mustering out Cash rolls in most<BR>
services of course.<BR>
<BR>
To me this suggests that Gambling skill can indeed be<BR>
used to make some money with. The characters with Gambling<BR>
skill are probably using it to:<BR>
<BR>
Play poker against other players.<BR>
<BR>
Play poker against the other characters.<BR>
<BR>
Place side bets about the margin by which the other players<BR>
will loose to the house.<BR>
<BR>
Play blackjack and count the cards.<BR>
<BR>
Play Gilku, the Vilani card game from a FASA magazine.<BR>
<BR>
Use Gambling skill in an attempt to cheat.<BR>
<BR>
> Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
> player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
> play them! <BR>
<BR>
Remember not all Gambling takes place in casinos. <BR>
<BR>
> Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
+1 on the Cash Benefits table in most services, see above.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:06:57 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Guys and Dolls (was Re: Gambling skill)<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> "It's the oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York." <BR>
> [from "Guys and Dolls"]<BR>
> Later on:  "Seeing as how I assume the risk, is it not fair that I<BR>
> should assume some dough?"<BR>
<BR>
> Now that I think about it, any referee planning to run a game in which<BR>
> gambling plays a key role ought to watch "Guys and Dolls" as<BR>
> preparation.  (Of course, IMHO, _everyone_ should watch "Guys and Dolls"<BR>
> at least once.  Good movie!)<BR>
<BR>
Why just watch Guys and Dolls when they can read the Damon<BR>
Runyon story it is based on: "The Idyll of Miss Sarah Brown"<BR>
(1933). The movie is, of course, based on Guys and Dolls, <BR>
the 1950 broadway musical adaptation of the short story.<BR>
<BR>
"Of all the high players this country ever sees, there is no<BR>
doubt that the guy the call The Sky is the highest. In fact,<BR>
the reason he is called The Sky is because he goes so high<BR>
when it comes to betting on any proposition whatever. He will<BR>
bet all he has and nobody can bet more than this."<BR>
<BR>
[Runyon, D. "Runyon A La Carte". 1945. Garden City, NY: Sun<BR>
Dial Press. p. 89.]<BR>
<BR>
Runyon's characters use an amazing dialect one that is well <BR>
woth inflic, er sharing, with your players. Most of the short<BR>
stories I have read woulf make suitable adventures for<BR>
any party with some greed and less honesty. On the off chance<BR>
your PC's are honest you can still work most of the stories<BR>
into adventures fairly easily.<BR>
<BR>
Given that Runyon is, unjustly, mostly forgotten these day <BR>
it's a fairly safe bet that any of them, except "Idyll" itself,<BR>
will be unknown to almost all players.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2189<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2190</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	3/26/00 10:16:57 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2190<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: Guys and Dolls (was Re: Gambling skill)<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim Free Traders<BR>
Robots in MT query<BR>
Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Everything Old is New Again<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: DGP-GDW taped seminars<BR>
Protective Gear<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
RE: Gambling Skill<BR>
Re: Gambling Skill<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:11:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
> > On Behalf Of Jesse LaBranche<BR>
> >     There are three basic types of system: Class-based, Skills-based,<BR>
and<BR>
> > Points-based. Some very specific features tend to make them what they<BR>
> > are.<BR>
> Well, there are several others as well, but lets look at these for now.<BR>
<BR>
True enough, this is why I said "basic types".<BR>
<BR>
> >     Class-based uses a Class/Profession/Template or whatever else you<BR>
> > want to call it to "restrict" characters and add balance to the game.<BR>
This<BR>
> > is what Traveller does in contrast to the other two systems.<BR>
> Ah, but I don't agree that Traveller restricts characters in this way.<BR>
<BR>
Tell you what. Run through the character generation tables in Traveller.<BR>
Instead of putting the levels where the rolls told you to- just note how<BR>
many<BR>
levels the character gets.<BR>
When you're finished, give the character to a player and let him put the<BR>
different levels where he wants them. Take that character up against a<BR>
"legally" generated character and see who wins.<BR>
Try this a few times- not just once.<BR>
You'll undoubtedly find that the chargen used in Traveller is a rather<BR>
necessary balancing point.<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, the career tables restrict skill availablity,  _not_ to add balance<BR>
to<BR>
> the game (at least, if they were designed to do so, they fail miserably at<BR>
> this) but to create a more believable set of skills for a character that<BR>
has<BR>
> chosen a particular profession.<BR>
<BR>
I believe, quite honestly, that they were designed to do both. In the sense<BR>
of "balance" here- I am talking about a well-rounded non-power character<BR>
though.<BR>
<BR>
> CT restricts characters who are generated via the career tables quite<BR>
> heavily for a modern game, but for the period it was written it gives a<BR>
lot<BR>
> of choices.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC- MT used identical charts ported over to it from CT in "basic"<BR>
character generation.<BR>
<BR>
> More importantly, the CT career tables only affect generation of the<BR>
> character,  Once generated, the character's profession has _no_effect_ on<BR>
> the game mechanics (except in a "social" way, he ex-Scout geting better<BR>
lead<BR>
> on the Scouts bar, etc.)<BR>
<BR>
This is true although I was not making a distinction between generation<BR>
and run-time since most systems tend to differentiate between the two.<BR>
<BR>
> Marines do not get better odds at hitting with a weapon than a scout does,<BR>
> for example, and there are no rules preventing scouts from using heavy<BR>
> machine guns.<BR>
> or preventing engineers from wearing battle-dress.<BR>
<BR>
This is not entirely true. Marines will tend to get more weapon skills than<BR>
Army or Scout characters, especially in the weapons within their fields.<BR>
<BR>
> Class-based systems have mechanical constraints that continue to affect<BR>
the<BR>
> character during play.<BR>
<BR>
> If pushed, I would agree that CT and MT _generation_ is loosely<BR>
class-based,<BR>
> but  both _run-times_ are not.<BR>
<BR>
My statement of Traveller being a "looser" system encompassed this actually.<BR>
<BR>
> A truly "class-based" Traveller generation system would not have Marines,<BR>
> Scouts, Navy, Merchant, etc., but Pilot, Engineer, Soldier, Steward<BR>
> "classes".<BR>
<BR>
This is not true either...<BR>
Group: Warrior<BR>
Class: Marine<BR>
Kit: Several options available<BR>
<BR>
In truth using the above structure is definitely straight from 2nd edition<BR>
AD&D though.<BR>
<BR>
> In Traveller you can come up with exactly the same set of skills and stats<BR>
,<BR>
> whether the career was Navy, Scouts, or Merchant. It's not likely,<BR>
> admittedly, but it is possible.<BR>
<BR>
I recall very distinctly that there were skills that you simply could not<BR>
get in<BR>
some of the services UNLESS you got cross-training in a different service<BR>
and I'm not sure that this was an option for all of the services.<BR>
<BR>
> >     Skills-based systems completely throw away the idea of occupational<BR>
> > restriction and rely on a generation system where you either roll or<BR>
spend<BR>
> > points on skills, powers, and what-not.<BR>
<BR>
> Daredevils, Shadowrun, and many others are purely skill-based, but they<BR>
> restrict the available skills to the careers your character takes, though<BR>
> they largely do not restrict entry or exit to careers.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, if I am reading this correctly- Shadowrun gives you say 3 skills and<BR>
your choices vary depending on the career that you took...<BR>
Hmm... In AD&D you get proficiencies based on the class that you took...<BR>
4 weapons for fighter as an example.<BR>
It would appear to me (Only from your comment above- I may be missing<BR>
many other points though) that these are also Class not Skills based<BR>
systems.<BR>
Admittedly, I have not played either one of these.<BR>
<BR>
>This is the same as<BR>
> for Twilight 2000, James Bond, T4, & TNE. (Though I believe James Bond<BR>
only<BR>
> restricts knowledges in this way)<BR>
<BR>
Twilight (1st edition) does NOT restrict the skills that you can take.<BR>
Instead, it makes skills cheaper for taking certain careers.<BR>
Twilight (2nd edition) IMO is class-based, not skills-based at least<BR>
in generation simply because everything in it is based on your "class"<BR>
renamed to "career".<BR>
James Bond, you are correct only restricts it in "fields of experience",<BR>
however that is really a very well disguised point system since you can<BR>
take up to 6 years at 20 points per year. Then spend those points on<BR>
skills.<BR>
<BR>
> Runequest also restricts the available skills to those available in your<BR>
> home village and to your social class and parents profession, but is again<BR>
a<BR>
> skill-based system.<BR>
<BR>
I really really wish I had played this when it was published. I keep hearing<BR>
a great deal about it that I like.<BR>
<BR>
> >     Points-based systems generally throw away the random rolls and<BR>
usually<BR>
> > do the same with classes using points to determine everything...<BR>
> >     Here's my take on some examples of each type...<BR>
> > Class-based: D&D, AD&D, White Wolf, Traveller, Twilight 2000 2nd ed or<BR>
> > later.<BR>
> Try arguing that White Wolf stuff is "class-based" on a WW mailing list !<BR>
> I partially agree with you, but would point out that unlike Traveller, the<BR>
> White Wolf "classes" do continue to have some mechanical effects on the<BR>
> runtime of the game.<BR>
<BR>
Lol. Yeah, I've had that argument with WW fans. I really did not like the WW<BR>
or the Star Wars system because of the "templates" used in them. IMO- they<BR>
were as restrictive as classes in AD&D.<BR>
<BR>
> But, still, WW classes have so few restrictions, that they are more like<BR>
> stereotypes than classes, nothing mechanical in the game prevents a<BR>
Ventrue<BR>
> from learning Animalism ( normally a Gangrel or Nosferatu discipline) ,<BR>
for<BR>
> instance, and they _could_ do so, as long as they're willing to endure the<BR>
> _social_ rather than mechanical consequences of doing so.<BR>
<BR>
WW rules have few restrictions. Funny how this is in complete contrariness<BR>
to my above statement- eh? Throw out the templates, or establish them as<BR>
just examples of ways a character could be done up and I think I would have<BR>
liked the system a lot better- at least as a player.<BR>
<BR>
> > Skills-based: The Fantasy Trip (TFT), Twilight 2000 v:1, James Bond<BR>
> > Points-based: The Hero System, Car Wars, Star Fleet Battles, and most<BR>
> > Strategy games.<BR>
> Again, the Hero System is a skill-based / stat-based runtime, only it's<BR>
> character generation is point-based.<BR>
> There are very few point-based RPG runtimes.<BR>
<BR>
Alright, several examples of Hero being a point-based runtime game. Put<BR>
skills into a variable power pool. Use variable multi-powers, variable<BR>
power advantages, or variable limitations.<BR>
In every one of the cases above you will be redistributing points to change<BR>
virtually anything about your character in game play.<BR>
<BR>
Transformation, Drain, Transfer, Mental attacks of almost every type, and<BR>
Aid will have you playing with active and real cost points to move points<BR>
from one location area to another- in game play.<BR>
<BR>
Experience gives you points that go directly into adjusting virtually<BR>
anything<BR>
on your character including equipment, although whether you're considering<BR>
experience and levelling up as run-time or not, I'm not sure.<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, there are other approaches to character generation as well, including<BR>
> the narrative-based approach, and the DIP (design-in-play) approach,<BR>
though<BR>
> the latter is not specifically supported by very many systems.<BR>
<BR>
True enough. I've done DIP games, but I didn't know that there were any<BR>
systems that actually used this approach. The story-telling systems<BR>
(Narrative approach) tends to use "templates" which are much like classes.<BR>
<BR>
> >     When you pick up a new class, you quit using the old and progressing<BR>
> > along it. When you pick up a new career in Traveller, you quit<BR>
progressing<BR>
> > along the old as well.<BR>
> So, are you allowed a dual-classed fighter-magic who isn't a half-elf or<BR>
> half-orc now?<BR>
<BR>
You're thinking of "multi-classing" rather than "duel-classing" big<BR>
difference<BR>
there. In answer to your question though- not in 2nd edition, but yes in<BR>
3rd.<BR>
<BR>
> The point is that in D&D you must change _classes_ not careers.<BR>
<BR>
If we call D&D classes "careers" then this is a moot point, except for...<BR>
<BR>
> This means more than just getting a new employer, which is all it could<BR>
mean<BR>
> in Traveller, as it will have very specific game mechanic effects on you<BR>
in<BR>
> play.<BR>
<BR>
In many cases, it could mean a LOT less as well. Just depends on the<BR>
non-mechanic circumstances of the change in classes.<BR>
<BR>
> In Traveller, you could change from Navy to Scouts and it could have<BR>
> _no_affect_ on your character (other than perhaps promotion opportunities)<BR>
.<BR>
> You could just do the same job for a different employer.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it is possible (I don't have a current copy to check this) but<BR>
it is very unlikely from what I recall.<BR>
<BR>
> (Of course if we're restricting it to pure CT, you can't change, but then<BR>
> you couldn't dual-class in in Classic D&D either )<BR>
<BR>
True, however you could change classes in that as well. For example<BR>
moving from a Fighter to a Ranger.<BR>
<BR>
> > > D&D uses a level-based system with character classes.<BR>
> > Traveller uses a level-based system with character careers. While<BR>
> > different in many of the mechanics, it is still a class-based system.<BR>
> Traveller definitely doesn't have "levels".<BR>
<BR>
Skill levels it definitely does have- at least MT does.<BR>
<BR>
> In fact CT had _no_ means of in-game mechanics-based enhancement.<BR>
> (until the Instruction skill in Book 4, at any rate)<BR>
> Frankie<BR>
<BR>
Heh. That is sort of a cop-out. AD&D didn't have characters until book-2.<BR>
You have raised very good points here and I think the disagreements you<BR>
and I have are...<BR>
1. The difference between a Class and Non-class system.<BR>
2. The difference between a Skill and Point based system. As I was<BR>
re-reading what I posted earlier and discussing this with you, it really<BR>
seems that Skill and Point-based systems are different ways of saying<BR>
virtually the same thing. Since Bond and T2k (1st ed) did actually use<BR>
points to purchase the skills.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:17:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Guys and Dolls (was Re: Gambling skill)<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote:<BR>
> Why just watch Guys and Dolls when they can read the Damon<BR>
> Runyon story it is based on: "The Idyll of Miss Sarah Brown"<BR>
> (1933). The movie is, of course, based on Guys and Dolls,<BR>
> the 1950 broadway musical adaptation of the short story.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the info- I was wondering if it had ever been in a<BR>
book form. It seemed to well done for hollywood.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:54:46 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Free Traders<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:44:47 +0100<BR>
> From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
> Subject: Solomani Rim Free Traders(was:Re: More Cool Maps)<BR>
> <BR>
> At 08:39 25.03.00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Question: Seeing how rich it is out there, would a free trader be a viable<BR>
> >operation?<BR>
> <BR>
> I'd suppose not. Solomani Rim seems to be a well-developed sector par<BR>
> excellance. Probably every little bit of trade is in the hands of a few<BR>
> megacorps.<BR>
> <BR>
> The only Free Traders there *might* be smugglers across the border. Does<BR>
> enyone know if GT:RoF will give us some information on this (playtesters?)?<BR>
<BR>
	*spark* *beep* yes *whistle* *hiss*<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:13:35 +1000<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Robots in MT query<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have any hard and fast rules for translating BOOK 8 Robots into<BR>
MT Vehicle rules?<BR>
<BR>
Also does anyone understand Robot combat from book 8? I can't work out how<BR>
much damage they can handle.<BR>
<BR>
- -SEC: Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:23:40 -0600<BR>
From: "Anthony Merlock" <amerlock@execpc.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:46:08 -0800<BR>
> From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Classes in Traveller (was Re: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
><BR>
> > From: Anthony Merlock <amerlock@execpc.com><BR>
> > >I hate to jump in on this discussion, but IMHO, calling Traveller a<BR>
> > >class-based system is using a very different definition of 'class' than<BR>
> I'm<BR>
> > >used to using.<BR>
><BR>
>     I would guess that the only thing you are using as a model for a<BR>
> class-based system is AD&D/D&D.<BR>
><BR>
> > >A class defines what a character is, and limits what a character can<BR>
do.<BR>
><BR>
> Like "I am a Scout and when I roll this type of duty, I get to roll this<BR>
> type of<BR>
> skill and you can forget about learning the one's not listed in the<BR>
Scout's<BR>
> generation"?<BR>
<BR>
No, I meant during gamplay, not character creation.  Yes, my experience in<BR>
class-based games is pretty limited, but the few that I've seen have<BR>
class-based effects on the character long after character creation is done.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > >The class is central to the character - and performing tasks outside<BR>
the<BR>
> > >limits of the class is usually difficult, if not impossible.  The class<BR>
> > > also limits how the character can improve, going far beyond the<BR>
extents<BR>
> > >of character creation.<BR>
><BR>
>     Not in all class-based systems. Most class-based systems allow for<BR>
> changing classes as you advance for example. Some even force it.<BR>
<BR>
But, if you change the class, the new class is then central to the<BR>
character, and limits the character in a different way than before, but<BR>
they're still limited.<BR>
<BR>
> > >Fundamentally, you *can not* play a character from a class-based RPG<BR>
> > >without knowing the class.  In Traveller, once the character is<BR>
> generated,<BR>
> > >their career is irrelevant as far as game mechanics go.<BR>
><BR>
>     This is untrue. Presuming, for example, that your model is based on<BR>
the<BR>
> AD&D game system...<BR>
><BR>
>     We write down the stats, armor class, hit points, THAC0, saving<BR>
throws,<BR>
> special abilities, skills, level, and experience and the game can now be<BR>
> played with no reference to the class again.<BR>
>     The ONLY time that you will need to know what class the character is<BR>
> would be when advancing a level and ONLY if you chose not to write down<BR>
> the character's experience and/or spell tables.<BR>
>     Some class-based systems never use the actual class once character<BR>
> generation is finished although they also tend to never give you new<BR>
skills<BR>
> or abilities.<BR>
<BR>
But, in the example above, you're replicating the *rules* for the class on<BR>
the character sheet.  They are still needed for play.  If you didn't<BR>
replicate the rules on the character sheet, you would be unable to play.<BR>
The Traveller character in my example was fully playable with just the<BR>
information provided.  Besides, you also would need the progression tables<BR>
for weapon proficiencies, saving throws, permitted weapons, and every other<BR>
table and chart that refers to the *class* of the character.<BR>
<BR>
To simulate this with another example, here's an AD&D character:<BR>
STR: 15 DEX: 12 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 6<BR>
Weapon Profs: Mace, Morning Star, Quarterstaff, Warhammer<BR>
Hit Points 6<BR>
<BR>
This is the same information I gave for the Traveller character, yet this<BR>
character is not playable.  You can *guess* that it's a fighter because of<BR>
the 4 weapon profs, but without referencing the rules for the character<BR>
class (whether in a book, or written on the character sheet), the character<BR>
can not be played.<BR>
<BR>
You obviously have a wider knowledge of RPG's than I do - could you name<BR>
some class-based games that don't use the class after character creation<BR>
(exclude Traveller from this, please)?  I'd like to take a look at them.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, this is getting way off topic, so if you want to continue this,<BR>
please feel free to do so via private email.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Tony Merlock<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:39:19 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Everything Old is New Again<BR>
<BR>
It's actually the GURPS Newsgroup...Doug Posts there quite frequently. I <BR>
think he'll set them straight on Aslan lesbian pirates :)<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:37:15 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
At 05:18 26.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 00-03-25 16:00:36 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
><< When did all that happen? Where is that "Black Curtain"?<BR>
><BR>
>  In short: What's the story?  >><BR>
><BR>
>Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the final<BR>
>details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything else I know<BR>
>on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
<BR>
This is sad! Truly sad!<BR>
<BR>
If not even one of the lead designers of GDW is allowed to talk about the <BR>
subject, something must be wrong.<BR>
<BR>
Can you at least el us who is behind this coverup?<BR>
<BR>
A name is probably still allowed, or is it?<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:41:50 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Perhaps Marc Miller could write a book where it's all explained in detail?<BR>
>I'm sure most of the collectors on this list would buy it, so...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, Marc Miller was out of the loop on all things TNE, so he may not be <BR>
the culprit.<BR>
He repeatedly said that he didnt know anything about the storyline of TNE.<BR>
<BR>
Although, come to think of it... He DID say he didnt like Virus. Maybe the <BR>
contract with SJG prohibts them from using anything from TNE, or even <BR>
disclosing info about it. Hmmm...<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:44:14 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
>Best guess: Loren can't tell us why he can't discuss it because...<BR>
><BR>
>Oh my.<BR>
><BR>
>Never mind. If I'm right, there's no way I can tell anyone without<BR>
>giving it away. I'll just have to wait and hope I'm right.<BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
Folks,<BR>
we have got two options here: Kill him now, and fast, or let him suffer...<BR>
This insolence cannot stand. Mark my words, Walt, were after you!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:09:49 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> <BR>
> Nah! The fences around starship salvage yards should be a eclectic<BR>
> mixture of plywood, plastic panels, old rusted side panels from<BR>
> crashed air/rafts and any other salvaged junk the owner doesn't think<BR>
> he can sell, all topped with barbed wire. And don't forget the<BR>
> required "junk yard dogs!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Say, Bruce, is Ricardo ever going to go play with the "crokers" at<BR>
> Pete's-U-Pull-It salvage yard?  Maybe after he gets a snout full of<BR>
> beersies in Startown? <g><BR>
<BR>
Well, he's got to work on his Australian accent first. The beersiis should<BR>
help, though. <BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:38:14 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
In mail shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>> >     a - Feed the long storage jump capacitor (LSJC).<BR>
>><BR>
>> This is my big problem with the idea of drop tanks - if we have some sort<BR>
of<BR>
>> new high capacity capacitor, then on behalf of Famile Spofulam, I want<BR>
the<BR>
>> full technical specs to allow a radical reduction in the size of our<BR>
>> Particle Accelerator Weapon systems. Energy is energy, right ?<BR>
><BR>
>Not necessarily.<BR>
><BR>
>>>>><BR>
>On the other hand, drop tanks strike me as quite reasonable. Of<BR>
>course, I'm a "fuel is all used up initiating the jump" person.<BR>
><BR>
>>> > >  L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost<BR>
per<BR>
>>> > >  jump. However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo<BR>
>> tonnage<BR>
>>> > >  resulting from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more than<BR>
<BR>
I tend to go toward the "only part of the fuel is used during jump, the rest<BR>
is used to maintain a bubble of normal space around the ship while in<BR>
J-Space" school of thought.  I've allowed jump tanks in the past, but in the<BR>
following manner:<BR>
<BR>
The ship uses fuel from the internal tankage to jump. The external jump<BR>
tanks count toward dtons of vessel so either excess jump capacity is<BR>
required or the ship is limited to a shorter jump distance. Once the vessel<BR>
arrives the fuel from the external tanks can be transferred to the internal<BR>
tanks (a process which takes much less time than scooping and purifying<BR>
fuel, or traveling to a world to pick up refined fuel.) The tanks are then<BR>
jettisoned and the ship can jump again.<BR>
<BR>
This take on jump tanks relegates them to specialized uses by the military<BR>
for fast couriers or scouts, special expeditions needing to cross stellar<BR>
gaps, etc.  The tanks are reusable, but most of the time will be left<BR>
somewhere they are not likely to be recovered, in an empty hex, in enemy<BR>
territory, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:18:55 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: DGP-GDW taped seminars<BR>
<BR>
At 05:12 26.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
>Hi all,<BR>
>  Before I begin my polemic with Peter...I was wondering if anyone on the <BR>
> TML has copies of the GDW+DGP video taped seminairs.  As I ran across an <BR>
> old advertisement in TD and thought: cool!  If so could we make a copy, <BR>
> who would own the copyright, Roger <spit> S*#@$ger!?<BR>
>   Also, is any in possession of High Passage #1 and is it worth while to <BR>
> buy it (other its value as a collector).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, id totally forgotten about those...<BR>
<BR>
Hey, does anybody still have those tapes? Whats on them?<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:55:50 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Protective Gear<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:47:54 -0800, Evyn MacDude<BR>
<wmacdude@worldnet.att.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Btw, do you own a pair<BR>
>> of asbestos underwear?  <g><BR>
><BR>
>Oh and a welded link chainmail cod peice can save you a lot of grief.....<BR>
<BR>
Wear something between you and said cod piece. Trust me! (Anyone<BR>
remember the Epilady[TM]?) :-O<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."<BR>
                                               -Ecclesiastes 3:1<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:26:45 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
I think Loren has stated perhaps many times on the list and on an interview <BR>
on www.rpg.net that the contract with SJG forbids them from mentioning the <BR>
Virus and the Rebellion....<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 19:35:49 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
At 12:26 26.03.00 EST, Qstor@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>I think Loren has stated perhaps many times on the list and on an interview <BR>
>on www.rpg.net that the contract with SJG forbids them from mentioning the <BR>
>Virus and the Rebellion....<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't that only for publications? I don't think a post on this list can be<BR>
called such.<BR>
<BR>
And what about the Empress Wave? Ah, well in this case he might be<BR>
developing that part of the story line. And thus he can't tell. Possibly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:41:45 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Gambling Skill<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
>Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
>player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
>play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
	As has been pointed out, a lot of gambling can take place outside of<BR>
	casinos.  In the context of Traveller character generation, I can<BR>
	picture a regular card game in Engineering on those long tours of<BR>
	duty.  If someone with gambling skill does visit a casino, I would<BR>
	let them know what the odds are for the games, allow them a chance to<BR>
	spot cheaters, and let them realize the aforementioned odds (unskilled<BR>
	gamblers would generally face worse odds of winning, by making various<BR>
	mistakes).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:12:33 -0400<BR>
From: Brian Quirt <baqrt@mta.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling Skill<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Luther Martin writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
> >Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
> >player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
> >play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
> <BR>
>         As has been pointed out, a lot of gambling can take place outside of<BR>
>         casinos.  In the context of Traveller character generation, I can<BR>
>         picture a regular card game in Engineering on those long tours of<BR>
>         duty.  If someone with gambling skill does visit a casino, I would<BR>
>         let them know what the odds are for the games, allow them a chance to<BR>
>         spot cheaters, and let them realize the aforementioned odds (unskilled<BR>
>         gamblers would generally face worse odds of winning, by making various<BR>
>         mistakes).<BR>
> Peez<BR>
<BR>
	Additionally, the odds favour the house only a) in the long run, and b)<BR>
on average. It is quite possible for a skilled gambler to make a<BR>
consistent profit at certain games without upsetting that balance<BR>
(because a) the game isn't played for an infinite amount of time, and b)<BR>
there are undoubtedly some LESS-skilled gamblers around who are losing<BR>
money, thus maintaining the average).<BR>
<BR>
- -Brian Quirt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2190<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2191<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Trader's Map of the Imperium<BR>
High Passage #1<BR>
Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
Re: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
re: Palm software<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain (Valid Contract?<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
First Survey errata<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:32:17 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trader's Map of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/24/00 4:43 PM, Anthony Jackson<BR>
ajackson@molly.iii.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> I'll be marking the mains as I find time.<BR>
<BR>
Damn, that must have taken some time. Very cool. How in the world were you<BR>
planning to mark the mains?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:50:31 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: High Passage #1<BR>
<BR>
At 11:08 26.03.00, you wrote:<BR>
> >    Also, is any in possession of High Passage #1 and is it worth while to<BR>
> > buy it (other its value as a collector).<BR>
><BR>
>Yes & Yes<BR>
><grin><BR>
Sadist!<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:58:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
Well, I finally got three minutes to rub together, and began working a bit<BR>
on Heya/Regina.<BR>
<BR>
The "bluebook" stats from the Spinward Marches Campaign are:<BR>
<BR>
B687745-5 Ag Ri 734Im K6iii M8d<BR>
<BR>
Well, I started changing things immediately.  I changed the primary to a<BR>
K2v, and the companion to a M0v.  I placed the companion in a very<BR>
eccentric orbit, with a minimum separation of 3.4 AU and a maximum<BR>
separation of 30.6 AU. The period is 81.1 years.<BR>
<BR>
This meant that I had to be careful setting up the orbital zones.<BR>
Obviously, the system wasn't going to have the compliment of belts and GGs<BR>
indicated! So I compromised. Orbit 1, at .3 AU, held a planetoid bet. Orbit<BR>
2, .7 AU, held Heya, and the last available orbit at 1.1 AU held a small<BR>
gas giant.<BR>
<BR>
My next problem was that Heya is listed as having a dense atmosphere.  Hard<BR>
to justify on such a small planet. I fudged the die rolls to give the world<BR>
a density of 5.4g/cc. Even with that, the best I could manage was an<BR>
atmospheric pressure of 1.2 standard. Oh, well. That's still pretty good<BR>
for a world with only .67 gravity.<BR>
<BR>
Rolling for axial tilt gave a shock: 55 degrees! Damn! This place is going<BR>
to be *interesting* when it comes to the weather. I considered fiddling<BR>
with that result, but decided to leave it be.  Computing the temperature, I<BR>
ended up with 297 K, with is just over into the standard range, so I<BR>
dropped it ten degrees to get it into the "Cool" range to agree with BtC.<BR>
<BR>
So far, a nice world.  But remember that companion star? Roughly every<BR>
seventy years, for about a decade, that star is close enough to heat Heya<BR>
up. The figure I got was an additional 64 K at the closest approach.<BR>
<BR>
That makes quite a difference. Once a century Heya becomes a hellishly hot<BR>
planet with no real night, as the secondary star (Zyra) makes its close<BR>
pass by the primary (Bellus).<BR>
<BR>
Local life must either be extremely tough, or be adapted to decade-long<BR>
hibernation triggered by the approaching red star.  I imagine that many of<BR>
the animals will be amphibious, and the plant life will make use of the<BR>
wildfires caused by this passage and the attendant heating.<BR>
<BR>
Another biological side effect I can think of is a lack of creatures<BR>
adapted specifically for nocturnal activity.  For good portions of the<BR>
passage, there will be no effective night, as Heya passes through the<BR>
portions of its orbit that place it between Bellus and Zyra.  One more clue<BR>
that the life here is going to be tough, when even the analogs of field<BR>
mice have to survive in conditions of constant light.<BR>
<BR>
So who lives here? According to the data we have, 70 million farmers. The<BR>
Regency Sourcebook makes that 100 million with a ten percent Vargr<BR>
minority, but more on them later.<BR>
<BR>
My first question in this case was why isn't this a mining colony? It is an<BR>
unusually dense world, after all.. why isn't it being strip-mined?<BR>
<BR>
Ponder, ponder... perhaps the mines just didn't pay off? Eureka! The planet<BR>
was settled under a mining grant to Sternmetal Horizons, LIC in the early<BR>
300s. After two centuries of effort, the company decided the mines weren't<BR>
worth the cost to run them and sold the colonial rights.  This also gave me<BR>
nice names for places, like the "Disappointment Mountains."<BR>
<BR>
But to who? I wanted a group that would explain the low TL. Happened to see<BR>
a History Channel show about the Amish one day. That's it! Grab my copy of<BR>
_101 Religions_, flip, flip.. ah! The Thammerites (page 17) seem to fit the<BR>
bill.<BR>
<BR>
So, the world was settled in the mid-500s by a religious sect that wanted a<BR>
simple life. According to their beliefs, they rejected most technology as<BR>
Null-Bartha, choosing to live at an industrial age level of tech. They do<BR>
not reject all tech, accepting that many pieces of gear are of great value.<BR>
 You might therefore visit a modest farmers house and find a satellite<BR>
up-link and powerful computer monitoring the fence line right next to the<BR>
shed holding the two-Ket farm wagon.<BR>
<BR>
Looking around the subsector, it's obvious where their products go.. there<BR>
are three hi-pop world in the subsector, at least two of which cannot feed<BR>
themselves. No wonder they're rich! They can sell their grains and seafood<BR>
for any price they want!<BR>
<BR>
Doing the societal factors in first in produces few surprises. Heyans are<BR>
staid, solid conservative types, a bit wary of strangers. So far, except<BR>
for the weather, dull as the dirt they work.<BR>
<BR>
Feh. Like I'm going to design a dull planet?<BR>
<BR>
Remember the bit from the Regency Sourcebook? About that 10% Vargr<BR>
population? The Traveller Adventure mentions Vargr refugee camps in<BR>
Aramis.. So I put them together to get so conflict.<BR>
<BR>
The Ministry of Colonization, in order to relieve pressure in the camps,<BR>
began resettling Vargr on Imperial worlds.  One Faceless Bureaucrat, 2nd<BR>
Class noticed that there was loads of open space on Heya, and they had<BR>
received lots of Imperial money to subsidize the grain haulers and their<BR>
nice, shiny starport..<BR>
<BR>
So in 1114, several hundred thousand Vargr were dumped onto Heya.  Very few<BR>
were farmers, most had no desire to be farmers. Very few left the capital<BR>
of Brian's Passage.  The Heyan authorities, powerless to refuse the<BR>
refugees, responded by enacting a number of laws restricting the sorts of<BR>
jobs that Vargr could hold, and even where they could live.  The few Vargr<BR>
who did migrate out to the farms found themselves working as sharecroppers,<BR>
never making quire enough to pay off their debts. It isn't slavery, at<BR>
least not enough to trigger an Imperial intervention.<BR>
<BR>
Locked out of the legal systems, the Vargr have taken the route oppressed<BR>
immigrants have used for millennia: they organized gangs and ran a shadow<BR>
government.  In 1120, Brian's passage is a sharply divided city of 2<BR>
million; the humans who live in protected enclaves, and the Vargr in their<BR>
ghettos. <BR>
<BR>
The situation is tense. The Heyan Vargr are known to be contacting their<BR>
cousins in the Extents, and the threat of attack is considered so serious<BR>
that the Imperial navy has sent a Light Cruiser Squadron on permanent<BR>
picket duty. The presence of Imperial starmen and Marines on liberty has<BR>
created a thriving Vargr-run Startown and outraged the conservative Heyan<BR>
leaders even further.<BR>
<BR>
Zyra's next passage begins in earnest in 1123. The next few years should be<BR>
ones of bumper crops to allow the world to feed itself during the Burn (as<BR>
it is called by the locals.) Anything that interferes with these harvests<BR>
could be devastating to both Heya and worlds like Enope, Roup and Rethe.<BR>
<BR>
I'll do a more formal/neat write up in a few days.<BR>
<BR>
Well sirs, what do you think?<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:10:27 -0500<BR>
From: Laning <laning@wizard.net><BR>
Subject: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
	Possible reasons Loren can't tell us why he can't tell us about the Black<BR>
Curtain.<BR>
(1)  Someone got a  judge to order the officers and employees of GDW at the<BR>
time not to talk about it.  Cause for said action being something hitherto<BR>
unguessed at.<BR>
(2)  Part of an out of court settlement in a lawsuit is that the officers<BR>
and employees of GDW can't talk about it.<BR>
(3)  GDW and another company were jointly developing something that was<BR>
supposed to remain secret until it was announced.  And it hasn't been<BR>
announced yet.<BR>
(4)  National security.<BR>
(5)  Humor.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Reason (1) seems unlikely.  Other people in the gaming industry would have<BR>
heard about it.  Also, Loren would be able to say that he was under court<BR>
order not to talk about it.<BR>
	Reason (2) is possible, but given the smallness of the game industry and<BR>
its ability to carry every rumor of legal/financial trouble through all<BR>
four corners of the industry, many people on this list would have already<BR>
been speculating about this.  Speculating on the list.  We haven't heard a<BR>
peep.  But perhaps a former employee claimed The Wilds as his own<BR>
intellectual property, and got a favorable settlement.  Or something.<BR>
	Reason (3) seems possible.  For instance, perhaps GDW had quietly<BR>
partnered with Lucas Arts to join the Star Wars universe with the Traveller<BR>
universe, and Lucas Arts wanted total control of the media's knowledge<BR>
about it.  Not to mention wanting to extricate themselves from prior game<BR>
development contracts with other companies.  Everyone had to sign lots of<BR>
scary legal documents to ensure secrecy, and Loren isn't stupid enough to<BR>
risk being a target of Lucas' lawyers even at this late date.<BR>
	Reason (4).  Yeah, right.  This fictional "Black Curtain" is a matter for<BR>
the government to suppress, LOL.  What:  a bunch of black helicopters<BR>
descended into the Illinois night, grabbed everyone involved, and several<BR>
humans (both Terran and not) and an old-looking droyne used incredibly<BR>
advanced mind-control technology to forever prevent any of them from<BR>
discussing the matter???  The black helicopters then returned to Roswell, I<BR>
suppose?<BR>
	Reason (5).  Loren, in firm possession of his sense of humor, is hinting<BR>
to us about Reason (4), and seeing what fun will be had.  Or doing his<BR>
Colonel Flagg impression as a lark.<BR>
<BR>
	Just a second, gotta answer the phone.<BR>
<BR>
	Um, guys, remember please, Reason (4) is just me joking.  There *is* no<BR>
Grandfather, of *course* he isn't engaging in psychohistorical manipulation<BR>
of Terra, and it's just *too silly* to think the famous black helicopters<BR>
are really *grav* vehicles used by some of Grandfather's agents on Terra.<BR>
Really.  I mean, heh heh heh, that's just silly.  Right?  Just a joke.  You<BR>
should dismiss it now as not possible.  You should abandon this thread too.<BR>
 Go on to a different topic, I'm told to say.<BR>
<BR>
- --Laning<BR>
<BR>
PS  I vote for either reason (2) or (3).  Or maybe (5).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:21:53 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Canon?<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/25/00 7:24 AM, John Wood John@elvw.demon.co.uk<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> What do we do about using published material in our work? Quoting one<BR>
> entry from BtC as the Library Data entry might be "fair use" but if we<BR>
> all do it we'll be going beyond both the letter and the spirit of the<BR>
> law. I was wondering about using references.<BR>
<BR>
I agree. My thoughts are that previous material should be a backdrop, and<BR>
one should avoid /contradicting/ it, but it would also be best to avoid<BR>
quoting or relying on references. Not that ref's are bad, but if the work is<BR>
overly tied into other publications, those become more like "required<BR>
reading" than campaign supplements. The more independent the write-up, the<BR>
easier it should be to insert into each varied TU. Just a thought.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:20:30<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
At 02:10 PM 3/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>	Possible reasons Loren can't tell us<BR>
<BR>
Folks, since it's obvious that Loren's silence is related to some legal<BR>
maneuver can we stop the speculation before we force him to leave the list<BR>
legal reasons?<BR>
<BR>
I for one can live without knowing this story, if only so I can find out<BR>
what other parts of Traveller canon where prompted by a grumpy Loren<BR>
answering questions at 0300.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 19:39:50 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help - Trav Combat Question<BR>
<BR>
At 11:30 -0500 25/3/00,  Eris the Heretic wrote:<BR>
>Minor question of mine...Let's say you have a 2d+2 weapon (whether<BR>
>from strength of armor or whatever). Do you apply it like this...<BR>
><BR>
>1d<BR>
>1d<BR>
>1 pip<BR>
>1 pip<BR>
><BR>
>...or like this?<BR>
><BR>
>1d<BR>
>1d<BR>
>2 pips<BR>
><BR>
>I think the first way is how T4 does it, but I'm not sure.<BR>
<BR>
First hit, as one block.<BR>
<BR>
Second hit, as the first example, except there is a Kinetic Energy <BR>
damage limit of 3 dice in T4 for human size targets. So I'd use a <BR>
PCMP and do 17D damage and 4D explosive on top ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 19:37:03 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Palm software<BR>
<BR>
At 11:30 -0500 25/3/00, Peter Millerwrote:<BR>
>Does anyone know of (or maintain) a web page of PalmPilot Traveller software?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Nope - I'm interested in this too. I just make do with the Imperial <BR>
Encyclopedia in QED on my Palm IIIx.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:36:28 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/26/00 2:00:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Rolling for axial tilt gave a shock: 55 degrees! Damn! This place is going<BR>
>  to be *interesting* when it comes to the weather. I considered fiddling<BR>
>  with that result, but decided to leave it be.  Computing the temperature, I<BR>
>  ended up with 297 K, with is just over into the standard range, so I<BR>
>  dropped it ten degrees to get it into the "Cool" range to agree with BtC.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  So far, a nice world.  But remember that companion star? Roughly every<BR>
>  seventy years, for about a decade, that star is close enough to heat Heya<BR>
>  up. The figure I got was an additional 64 K at the closest approach.<BR>
<BR>
Urrr.  That can't be right.<BR>
<BR>
This is something I've been meaning to write up for a while, actually,<BR>
for a followup article for _First In_.  You'll often get situations where a<BR>
world has two heat sources for at least brief periods.  It's not correct<BR>
to simply add the two temperature contributions together -- surface<BR>
temperature is actually proportional to the *fourth root* of the total<BR>
energy flux reaching the surface.  Hence if you have a secondary heat<BR>
source which gives you 10% as much energy flux as the primary, the<BR>
surface temperature will only be about 2.4% higher than what it would<BR>
be if the primary was alone.<BR>
<BR>
What you should do (if you're using _First In_) is extend the blackbody<BR>
temperature formula on page 75 as follows:<BR>
<BR>
B = 278 * ((fourth root of L1/square root of R1) + (fourth root of L2/square <BR>
root of R2))<BR>
<BR>
- -- where L1, L2 are the luminosities of the two stars, and R1, R2 are the<BR>
distances from each star to the world in question.  Then take the B<BR>
that you get and apply it normally in the second formula for average<BR>
surface temperature.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:38:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/25/00 11:34 AM, David P. Summers<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> If anyone wants to see my Aramis subsector, let me know.  Or<BR>
> I can post it if someone has a place I can put it.  All in<BR>
> all, your maps are quite impressive....<BR>
<BR>
Yes, post away! Maps, more maps, lots of really cool maps, uh huh, yeah, all<BR>
these maps are quite impressive, and we need more maps of different sorts<BR>
like demographics of sophonts, and maps showing who has access to better and<BR>
more maps.<BR>
<BR>
Did I mention I like maps?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:57:56 -0600<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
Qstor@aol.com posted:<BR>
><BR>
>I think Loren has stated perhaps many times on the list and<BR>
on an interview<BR>
>on www.rpg.net that the contract with SJG forbids them from<BR>
mentioning the<BR>
>Virus and the Rebellion....<BR>
><BR>
>Mike<BR>
<BR>
At least Loren's not trying to say "Jehovah" (oh,<BR>
no)..THUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
THUDTHUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(any M.Python fans out there?)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:14:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
At 02:36 PM 3/26/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 3/26/00 2:00:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>  So far, a nice world.  But remember that companion star? Roughly every<BR>
>>  seventy years, for about a decade, that star is close enough to heat Heya<BR>
>>  up. The figure I got was an additional 64 K at the closest approach.<BR>
><BR>
>Urrr.  That can't be right.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, recalculating gives me a maximum temperature at closest approach of 307<BR>
K / 97 F.  Up from the average of 287 K / 57 F.  This will vary of course<BR>
as Heya moves through its own 247.5 day orbit and Zyra comes in and then<BR>
recedes back into deep space.<BR>
<BR>
Still makes a difference, but not quite as cataclysmic as I first imagined.<BR>
<BR>
A fun image though, and worth playing with. Regular glacial melts, massive<BR>
flooding of coastal areas, much or the animal population would probably<BR>
exhibit swarming behaviors when the light began to show certain<BR>
wavelengths...  Matched with Heya's extreme tilt, the passage years will be<BR>
interesting to say the least.  Ties in with my image of the unflappable<BR>
Heyan yeoman. As the 200 kph hurricane winds rip through the little village<BR>
the characters find themselves in, the locals will simply scoff and speak<BR>
of long past storms as *real* passing storms.  Picture your stereotypical<BR>
Maine resident discussing Nor'easters..<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the dominant sea life would be a species of migratory seabirds...<BR>
<BR>
This, by the way, was one of the things I was hoping to do with the<BR>
Landgrab.. posting our materials as works in progress to elicit commentary<BR>
and suggestions.<BR>
<BR>
Loren, you be interested in this sort of stuff for JTAS?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
   http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com<BR>
<BR>
"A mrgs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:00:13 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
> From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
><BR>
> > Three days, huh. I guess that means you missed the Elephant-Mounted<BR>
Particle<BR>
> > Accelerator and the TL6 1100 kmh Rocket Bike.<BR>
><BR>
> I caught the tail end of that. Is there an FAQ for the list "in-jokes"?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Let me tell you about Famile Spofulam. No, on second thoughts, you can find<BR>
out yourself.<BR>
<BR>
They were two bits of completely rules-compliant insanity that I posted in<BR>
the last 2 weeks or so.<BR>
> > This is my big problem with the idea of drop tanks - if we have some<BR>
sort of<BR>
> > new high capacity capacitor, then on behalf of Famile Spofulam, I want<BR>
the<BR>
> > full technical specs to allow a radical reduction in the size of our<BR>
> > Particle Accelerator Weapon systems. Energy is energy, right ?<BR>
><BR>
> You'd be able to use smaller elephants, right?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Among other things, yes.<BR>
<BR>
> <snip><BR>
> > Unfortunately, this press release is very old (like about issue 1 of<BR>
JTAS).<BR>
> > It is also in conflicy with other products also recognised as Traveller<BR>
> > Canon, such as High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron, which allow drop<BR>
> > tanks at much lower TLs.<BR>
><BR>
> It's a TNS piece but yes, it was the first. Should we just forget about<BR>
> it, or maybe use it to springboard a new adventure ("Whatever happened to<BR>
> that drop tank idea before the war?")? If we "forget" about the GT problem<BR>
> mentioned above, lets also "forget" HG and TCS and make LDJCs a high tech<BR>
> item to reduce availability.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
This solution still wont work without other things. Trust me, I did the<BR>
economics a while back on a drop tank assisted fast freighter route between<BR>
Collace and Glisten (6 parsecs, funnily enough). Bacially, it doesnt matter<BR>
if they are tech F/12, becasue so are jump 6 drives, and jump 6 freighters<BR>
are what drop tanks are best on (Hans Ranke posted a set of costs per parsec<BR>
for conventional and drop tank assisted ships a couple of years ago. I was<BR>
indebted to these).<BR>
<BR>
> See above. Also, a reusable tank would probably be heavier and harder to<BR>
> blast safely away from the ship's 100D limit.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
So we put a power source and thruster plates on it.<BR>
<BR>
> > I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive<BR>
misjump<BR>
> > insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew and<BR>
> > passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
><BR>
> Well YMMV, but personally I prefer the crew to be in charge of the ship's<BR>
> destiny. You can never tell who your "rescuers" will be, what they intend<BR>
> or when they will arrive. (Ever here of wreckers?)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Yes. This is why we, the ship owners, have misjump insurance. The crew get<BR>
paid the money to assume risks, including piracy, hijacking and getting lost<BR>
in jumpspace.<BR>
<BR>
> > My personal solution as a GM is to say "Sure. Go ahead. Feel free. You<BR>
can<BR>
> > even buy re-usable ones for 10 times the cost. By the way, the expected<BR>
> > misjump chance is about 1 in 126, with about half of those being<BR>
lethal".<BR>
><BR>
> Does this mean you want to add *another* 3d6 roll on top of the Piloting,<BR>
> Astrogation and Mechanic skill rolls for the jump (GT p.121), with a<BR>
> natural 18 meaning you flip a coin for misjump or disaster?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Just modify the probabilites so it crunches out at about 1 in 126.<BR>
<BR>
> > This means that your Drop Tank Express has an expected life of about 256<BR>
> > jumps, which at a jump every 10 days means about 8 years before it can<BR>
> > expect to be lost with all hands in jump space. Have fun with those new<BR>
> > Return on Investment equations.<BR>
><BR>
> Gee, given the regular skill rolls for jumps described above, it would<BR>
> probably be gone even before that. (Oh dear, this is distressing.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
*gives secret economics gearhead handshake*<BR>
<BR>
Misjump chances are much too high in GT. Give em a saving throw so that the<BR>
chance of misjump goes down to about 0.1% (ie at one trip per 10 days, one<BR>
misjump per 30 years or so. Most long-term spacers have probably been in<BR>
one, but they are still very rare). Failed jumps and drive damage are fair<BR>
enough.<BR>
<BR>
> > On the other hand, it means you can use Drop Tanks in their proper role,<BR>
> > which is for deep-penetration missions into enemy space (puts everything<BR>
> > within 8 parsecs of the border within the range of a jump-4 squadron).<BR>
Heck,<BR>
> > the extra 0.5% chance of loss will be rounding error in those sort of<BR>
> > missions.<BR>
><BR>
> All Imperial Navy ships would have to be retrofitted to allow the use of<BR>
> drop tanks just in case of war. Still, its the best reasoning I've seen<BR>
> yet.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 23:33:20 +0200<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
D. Smart wrote:<BR>
> At least Loren's not trying to say "Jehovah" (oh,<BR>
> no)..THUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
> THUDTHUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
> <BR>
> (any M.Python fans out there?)<BR>
<BR>
Certainly.<BR>
<BR>
Note that I live in Sweden...<BR>
<BR>
Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:44:39 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 00-03-26 13:16:57 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Can you at least el us who is behind this coverup?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Nothing legal or contractual is involved. I gave my word I wouldn't tell.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:56:08 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 00-03-26 13:16:57 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Can you at least el us who is behind this coverup?<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Nothing legal or contractual is involved. I gave my word I wouldn't tell.<BR>
> <BR>
> LKW<BR>
> <BR>
One could argue that giving one's word makes a contract...<BR>
I'd certainly buy the argument.<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:05:52 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2183<BR>
<BR>
I think there is something about the Wave in the story line for GT...There is <BR>
a section about Longbow in the main GT book...Loren has said that more will <BR>
be coming...I think it may be in the GT: Espionage or GT: Nobles books..<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:08:27 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain (Valid Contract?<BR>
<BR>
It depends...was there a valid offer, acceptance and consideration....:)<BR>
<BR>
Ok...the Bar Exam fried my brain :)<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:16:11 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Howdy!<BR>
><BR>
> > In a message dated 00-03-26 13:16:57 EST, you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > << Can you at least el us who is behind this coverup?<BR>
> >   >><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nothing legal or contractual is involved. I gave my word I wouldn't tell.<BR>
<BR>
Good enough for me.<BR>
<BR>
But, if I follow everything correctly, you gave your word you wouldn't<BR>
tell why you can't tell what you're not at liberty to tell. Now my head<BR>
hurts.  I think I liked "I can't say" or "No comment" better.  :-P<BR>
<BR>
> One could argue that giving one's word makes a contract...<BR>
> I'd certainly buy the argument.<BR>
<BR>
And one would be wrong.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
A contract is a legally enforceable agreement. You can't legally enforce<BR>
someone's word.  Some would consider that better than the law.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:17:34 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: First Survey errata<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know were the errata can be found? I don't have the Atlas of the <BR>
Imperium...I know that is the preferred TML source for world data :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:04:04 -0600<BR>
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
At 4:56 PM -0500 3/26/2000, Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>
>Howdy!<BR>
><BR>
>>  In a message dated 00-03-26 13:16:57 EST, you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>  << Can you at least el us who is behind this coverup?<BR>
>>    >><BR>
>><BR>
>>  Nothing legal or contractual is involved. I gave my word I wouldn't tell.<BR>
>><BR>
>>  LKW<BR>
>><BR>
>One could argue that giving one's word makes a contract...<BR>
>I'd certainly buy the argument.<BR>
<BR>
A contract exists only when there has been an exchange.  If you<BR>
just promise to do something gratis, it's not a contract.  At<BR>
least not legally.<BR>
<BR>
Bolie IV<BR>
- -- <BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Bolie Williams IV<BR>
bolie@io.com<BR>
http://www.io.com/~bolie/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2191<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 26 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2192<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: Gambling skill<BR>
Re: Gambling skill<BR>
Re: Protective Gear<BR>
Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: Gambling skill<BR>
Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:32:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Gambling is a tax on people who don't understand mathematics. I have lots of<BR>
> stories from back in the old days, when I used to teach probability and<BR>
> statistics to undergraduates, which are too far off-topic to relate, but<BR>
> which elaborate on this. I am also reminded of one student who came to class<BR>
> complaining that she went to my office during scheduled office hours, but I<BR>
> wasn't there. Right room number, wrong building.<BR>
><BR>
> Anyway...<BR>
><BR>
> Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player with<BR>
> Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give the<BR>
> player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
> play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
<BR>
There are several ways of looking at this:<BR>
 <BR>
1. Who says he's gambling in a casino? "Friendly" games, and sometimes<BR>
   even "house" games in a bar (where the game is more to keep people<BR>
   drinking than to make money for the house) *do* reward skill.<BR>
<BR>
2. In casino games, maybe it's a measure of how well the player can<BR>
   "gimmick" the odds. For example, "counting cards" at blackjack. Or<BR>
   even less "legal" things like "manipulating" the deck.<BR>
<BR>
3. It's a measure of a specific type of "luck" (maybe an unclassified<BR>
   psi talent?)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:39:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
>> <BR>
>> It gives the character the gumption to *be* the house? <g><BR>
><BR>
> "It's the oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York." <BR>
> [from "Guys and Dolls"]<BR>
><BR>
> Later on:  "Seeing as how I assume the risk, is it not fair that I<BR>
> should assume some dough?"<BR>
><BR>
> Now that I think about it, any referee planning to run a game in which<BR>
> gambling plays a key role ought to watch "Guys and Dolls" as<BR>
> preparation.  (Of course, IMHO, _everyone_ should watch "Guys and Dolls"<BR>
> at least once.  Good movie!)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Besides not all games of chance are against the house. Some, private games <BR>
> are a fair mixture of luck and skill. Gambling skill should help with those. <BR>
> It should also help the character spot crooked games.<BR>
><BR>
> I missed the point about detecting crooked games in my previous post in<BR>
> this thread (although I sort of discussed the character _running_ a<BR>
> crooked game, under Point #5 [cheating]).  Good point.<BR>
<BR>
Also, *this* mention of craps reminded me that there are people for<BR>
whom it is a game of *skill*, not chance. <BR>
<BR>
For those who don't get the above remark, there are rumored to be<BR>
people who can roll a given combo on the dice much more often than<BR>
"chance" would allow. <BR>
<BR>
So if the house is paying on 1-in-7 odds, and the player can make that<BR>
roll 1 time out of 5, in the long run, the house will loose. Even if<BR>
the "real" (random chance) odds are 1-in-10.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, if the house figures out what is going on, some aren't above<BR>
slipping the player loaded dice...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:51:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
>>now that would ALMOST be worth the effort.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>For extra points use tiny LEDs instead of beads, and run the wires to a<BR>
>>>control unit so you can light up any star or stars at will. That'd make<BR>
>>>IDing stars easier, as well as visualizing routes.<BR>
><BR>
> Leonard, have you been to the Smithsonian in DC lately?<BR>
<BR>
Try never. The one time I was in DC, I was 4, and we didn't do the<BR>
Smithsonian. And all I remember about the Washington monument are long<BR>
lines and too damn many *stairs* (ditto for the Statue of Liberty from<BR>
the New York part of the same trip)<BR>
<BR>
> They've got<BR>
> a starmap just as you describe, in a large cylinder. Best real-life<BR>
> "special effect" I've seen in a while, made me feel like I was looking<BR>
> over my Navigator's shoulder at a sector map displayed in a Holotank.<BR>
<BR>
If it's inside a sealed "cylinder" my money is on it being a "spinning<BR>
mirror" type 3d display. Though if you can look down on the top of the<BR>
cylinder, that's ruled out.<BR>
<BR>
There's an old Byte mag that has plans for such a display. *Way* more<BR>
work that I want to deal with.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:47:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> For extra points use tiny LEDs instead of beads, and run the wires to a<BR>
>> control unit so you can light up any star or stars at will. That'd make<BR>
>> IDing stars easier, as well as visualizing routes.<BR>
><BR>
> now that would ALMOST be worth the effort.<BR>
<BR>
Well, once the data for the "near stars" firms up a bit more (as in we<BR>
become more certain that we haven't missed any within a useful radius)<BR>
it might actually be worth it for a display of the near stars.<BR>
<BR>
That'd be because you could set up things for quantity production,<BR>
rather than one-off.<BR>
<BR>
I can see fans and astronomy buffs wanting them as a "mobile"/decoration.<BR>
And lots of gamers and *writers* wanting them as a handy reference.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:56:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> When I ran a GURPS Star Trek campaign (before I got bored by that<BR>
> Fanatasy-Super-Tech...) I used a paper map in 3D: Two planes, on x/y-plane<BR>
> and one x/z plane. A star would have to be entered on both maps according<BR>
> to its coordinates. Computing the distance between any two stars was simply<BR>
> done by using Pythagoras' genius. For a warp drive, this is quite easy, and<BR>
> it allows you to use nebulae and plot courses easily.<BR>
><BR>
> I made up a Traveller subsector in a similar way (measuring 8*8*10 parsecs,<BR>
> and with a 3D version of Charted space), but soon found out that for<BR>
> Traveller, there is a slight problem: You have to compute *every* distance<BR>
> to see whether you can jump there or not. This is really unconformtable.<BR>
<BR>
Not true. Just check the distance on the two maps (btw, the X-Y map can<BR>
be a regular hex map. The other map just has to "join" it at the<BR>
"staggered" end). If the distance on either map is greater than your<BR>
jump number, forget it. That means you only have to check *some* routes.<BR>
<BR>
> And the same is true for a real modell.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, but with a real model, you do the same thing you do on a flat,<BR>
non-hexmap. You take out a "ruler" and *measure*. <BR>
<BR>
With either of the two types I described, a set of thin rods or dowels,<BR>
cut to length for the jump numbers, and mounted with a long wire<BR>
"handle" at the midpoint will do just fine. <BR>
<BR>
Or we can go back to real world maps, and have one of those "trip<BR>
distance" charts that shows the distance between any pair of stars on<BR>
the map.<BR>
<BR>
Without *planning* to use it on a computer, I suspect that doing this<BR>
for anything except the real world stars is a waste of time. <BR>
<BR>
ps. the groups I gamed with pretty much always met in the same place.<BR>
And if they were still active, one place would be my apartment, where I<BR>
could almost issue each player a workstation <grin>. <BR>
<BR>
The other would be the shop we used to meet at after hours. These days,<BR>
there'd already be a suitable system there.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:08:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Btw, do you own a pair<BR>
>> of asbestos underwear?  <g><BR>
><BR>
> Oh and a welded link chainmail cod peice can save you a lot of grief.....<BR>
<BR>
Trust me. Chain mail *doesn't* protect from impact. And, in fact, as I<BR>
know from *painfully* personal experience, chainmail can *cause* the<BR>
impact. <BR>
<BR>
<spoiler space for the squeamish><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I was demoing a hauberk for an armorer friend. To show how easily you<BR>
could move in it, I was doing a bunch of different moves... Then I made<BR>
my mistake. I started doing "jumping jacks". <BR>
<BR>
To understand what happened, you have to realize that the "skirt" on a<BR>
hauberk is split into sections so it'll drape better. This means you<BR>
have 4 "flaps" instead of a solid skirt. <BR>
<BR>
So... I'm doing jumping jacks, and the front "flap" starts swinging in<BR>
time with my movements. Until it gets moving nice and fast and all<BR>
several pounds of it is swinging *back* between my legs as I am coming<BR>
*down* from the "jump" part of the "jumping jacks". <BR>
<BR>
I *did* prove that chain doesn't interfere with curling up into a tight<BR>
ball in midair... <wince><BR>
<BR>
Trust me, you want a *solid* codpiece or "cup", not a flexible one.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:44:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Yes all casino-type games favor the house but the trick is finding ones that<BR>
> depend more on skill then luck. One example is card games vs. random games.<BR>
> Cards games all need some skill to be good at. Luck games like slot machines<BR>
> and dice don't have much skill in them.<BR>
<BR>
As noted in another post, craps *may* be a game of skill. Just one<BR>
where it's *really* hard to attain a measurable amount of skill. Just<BR>
don't try playing against Aybee wanOwen...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:26:13 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Yes all casino-type games favor the house but the trick is finding ones that<BR>
> > depend more on skill then luck. One example is card games vs. random games.<BR>
> > Cards games all need some skill to be good at. Luck games like slot machines<BR>
> > and dice don't have much skill in them.<BR>
> <BR>
> As noted in another post, craps *may* be a game of skill. Just one<BR>
> where it's *really* hard to attain a measurable amount of skill. Just<BR>
> don't try playing against Aybee wanOwen...<BR>
<BR>
Or Jason dinAlt....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:17:30<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
At 01:14 PM 3/26/2000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ah, recalculating gives me a maximum temperature at closest approach of 307<BR>
>K / 97 F.  Up from the average of 287 K / 57 F.  This will vary of course<BR>
>as Heya moves through its own 247.5 day orbit and Zyra comes in and then<BR>
>recedes back into deep space.<BR>
<BR>
That of course should read a new *average* temp of 307/97 K/F.  This will<BR>
vary wildily during the passage of Zyra around Bellus.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:18:01<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
At 11:33 PM 3/26/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> (any M.Python fans out there?)<BR>
><BR>
>Certainly.<BR>
><BR>
>Note that I live in Sweden...<BR>
><BR>
>Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
<BR>
Visit the lovely lakes?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:46:12 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
>>> > 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
>>> >     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
>>> >     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
>>> >     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
>>> >     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
>>> >     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive misjump<BR>
>> insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew and<BR>
>> passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
><BR>
>The odds of being found are *way* too low. If you land in a system,<BR>
>that's one thing. If you (much more likely) land in an empty hex, it's<BR>
>going to take 3.26 years *minimum* for your signal to reach a system<BR>
>(and that's assuming that there's one within one hex). And the odds of<BR>
>it being *noticed* are low, even if it *is* an inhabited system.<BR>
<BR>
More importantly: the odds of misjumping to an occupied hex are somewhere<BR>
about 1 in 2. 1/2 of misjumps result in empty hexes. Now, unless you happen<BR>
to hit a rift, you WILL normally have a 1 parsec distant system. So, you<BR>
now have survivability on about 80-90% of misjumps, if you have that J1<BR>
reserve.<BR>
<BR>
>Lets say you have a megawatt transmitter. At one parsec, it's going to<BR>
>be down to 84e-12 *picowatts* per square kilometer... Nobody is going<BR>
>to hear that over background noise unless they've got a *major* radio<BR>
>telescope aimed right at you.<BR>
><BR>
More importantly: In the 3I, they KNOW there's life out there, and that<BR>
there's all kinds of radio clutter... so they will only be aiming radio<BR>
telescoped for certain purposes: Typically Research.  Shorter range scopes<BR>
might be sweeping for inbound tracks, but that's Traffic control, and<BR>
they'll not have the sensitivity for that; the squelch will be set so that<BR>
the mega-sensitive scopes used can get good res on stronger signals.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:06:29 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 23:33:20 +0200, Jens Rydholm<BR>
<jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>D. Smart wrote:<BR>
>> At least Loren's not trying to say "Jehovah" (oh,<BR>
>> no)..THUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
>> THUDTHUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
>> <BR>
>> (any M.Python fans out there?)<BR>
><BR>
>Certainly.<BR>
><BR>
>Note that I live in Sweden...<BR>
><BR>
>Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
><BR>
Sorry about that. The people responsible have been sacked.<BR>
<BR>
- - The Management<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson (j_pete@bellsouth.net)<BR>
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."<BR>
                                                    -George Washington<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:20:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com> wrote<BR>
><BR>
>> Gambling is a tax on people who don't understand mathematics. <BR>
><BR>
> A man in one of my classes described it this way:<BR>
><BR>
> "My father was a banker. One summer day when I was a child<BR>
> he got me up early and we drove down to his bank. We saw two<BR>
> Brinks Armored cars leaving the bank. My Father told me that<BR>
> each truck had one million dollars in cash in it. The trucks<BR>
> were going down to the (horse) race track. The money was<BR>
> going to be used to pay off the winners.<BR>
><BR>
> That night after dinner he drove me back to the bank. _Six_<BR>
> Brinks Armored cars were pulling up. He told me each car was<BR>
> full of one million dollars in cash that the track had made.<BR>
><BR>
> He said "Son, do you have any other questions about gambling?"<BR>
><BR>
> I said no and I have never gambled."<BR>
<BR>
I'm afraid that if it'd been me, I'd have said something like "How do I<BR>
start a racetrack?". <BR>
<BR>
It's *good* to be "the house". <BR>
<BR>
Some of you might want to swipe a bit from one of Randall Garrett's<BR>
"Lord Darcy" stories. As part of an investigation, he has to visit a<BR>
high class gambling establishment in London. One with an Arabic theme.<BR>
He laughs when the lady who is taking him tells him what the owner<BR>
calls himself: Sidi al Nasir. He explains to the lady that "Sidi al<BR>
Nasir" translates into English as "My Lord, the Winner". You can't say<BR>
he isn't giving the customers fair warning....<BR>
 <BR>
> Use Gambling skill in an attempt to cheat.<BR>
<BR>
Just keep in mind a comment by Lazarus Long. "I made my first million<BR>
in a poker game where a rich kid was dumb enough to slip in a set of<BR>
'readers' so he could cheat..." ("readers" being marked cards.<BR>
<BR>
In essence, the only thing worse than being the "mark" in a rigged game<BR>
is being the card shark in a rigged game that the *mark* *knew* was<BR>
going to be rigged. <BR>
<BR>
Evey crooked gambler's worst nightmare is discovering that his "mark"<BR>
is a *better* crooked gambler...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:29:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>>Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player <BR>
>>wthTraveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill give <BR>
> the<BR>
>>player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best know not to<BR>
>>play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something else?<BR>
><BR>
> The most cinematically dramatic gambling games involve other players,<BR>
> even in casinos. Check out James Bond playing cards in a casino<BR>
> against a big baddie.<BR>
<BR>
> When other players are involved, beating them makes sense as an<BR>
> effect of gambling skills - better knowledge of probability, tactics,<BR>
> strategy, and especially how to "play" the other players.<BR>
<BR>
You want "dramatic"? Check out "Big Hand For the Little Lady". That has<BR>
to be *the* most dramatic card game ever. And it's well suited to be<BR>
transplanted from the Western background to Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
And if your players haven't seen it, they *need* to be run thru it. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> I can't see Gambling skill doing much good if the character is buying<BR>
> a lottery ticket, or standing in front of a slot machine - except, as you<BR>
> said, figuring out the odds.<BR>
<BR>
Or as a sort of "luck" factor.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:41:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Protective Gear<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:47:54 -0800, Evyn MacDude<BR>
> <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Btw, do you own a pair<BR>
>>> of asbestos underwear?  <g><BR>
>><BR>
>>Oh and a welded link chainmail cod peice can save you a lot of grief.....<BR>
><BR>
> Wear something between you and said cod piece. Trust me! (Anyone<BR>
> remember the Epilady[TM]?) :-O<BR>
<BR>
Yes. Painfully (don't ask, I won't tell).<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, the story *I* recall in that context involved a young lady<BR>
and an *unlined* chainmail bikini. And her *great* embarassment when<BR>
the bottom had to be removed by "shaving" it off...<BR>
<BR>
Short hair tangles *very* well in chainmail. *Especially* curly hair...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:21:09 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Pete <j_pete@bellsouth.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 27 March 2000 01:07<BR>
Subject: Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 23:33:20 +0200, Jens Rydholm<BR>
><jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>D. Smart wrote:<BR>
>>> At least Loren's not trying to say "Jehovah" (oh,<BR>
>>> no)..THUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
>>> THUDTHUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> (any M.Python fans out there?)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Certainly.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Note that I live in Sweden...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
>><BR>
>Sorry about that. The people responsible have been sacked.<BR>
><BR>
>- The Management<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The people responsible for sacking the people who were sacked, have been<BR>
sacked.<BR>
<BR>
- -The New Management<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:22:49 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
>You want "dramatic"? Check out "Big Hand For the Little Lady". That has<BR>
>to be *the* most dramatic card game ever. And it's well suited to be<BR>
>transplanted from the Western background to Traveller.<BR>
><BR>
>And if your players haven't seen it, they *need* to be run thru it. :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Oooh! You are *evil*. Bad GM, baaad! <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:34:56 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
"Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com> writes<BR>
>    There are three basic types of system: Class-based, Skills-based, and<BR>
>Points-based. Some very specific features tend to make them what they<BR>
>are.<BR>
>    Class-based uses a Class/Profession/Template or whatever else you<BR>
>want to call it to "restrict" characters and add balance to the game. This<BR>
>is<BR>
>what Traveller does in contrast to the other two systems.<BR>
>    Skills-based systems completely throw away the idea of occupational<BR>
>restriction and rely on a generation system where you either roll or spend<BR>
>points on skills, powers, and what-not.<BR>
>    Points-based systems generally throw away the random rolls and usually<BR>
>do the same with classes using points to determine everything...<BR>
><BR>
>    Here's my take on some examples of each type...<BR>
>Class-based: D&D, AD&D, White Wolf, Traveller, Twilight 2000 2nd ed or<BR>
>later.<BR>
>Skills-based: The Fantasy Trip (TFT), Twilight 2000 v:1, James Bond<BR>
>Points-based: The Hero System, Car Wars, Star Fleet Battles, and most<BR>
>Strategy games.<BR>
<BR>
point 1: SFB is NOT roleplaying. PrimeDirective is, is set in the smae<BR>
univers but is mechanically incompatable, and is template based. I love It.<BR>
I've Run It. Repeatedly. If Traveller is Class Based, so is PD.<BR>
<BR>
I see about 6 generations of games:<BR>
1st Gen: D&D, T&T, Bushido, And other such games where all abilities are<BR>
tied to Class and Level.<BR>
2nd Gen: Skill Based Class Systems, like Traveller, Rolemaster, Star<BR>
Frontiers, RuneQuest, Space Opera, Palladium. These systems utilize skills<BR>
which are made available by your<BR>
profession/class/Socio-Economic-Background, but you get a differing set by<BR>
choices and/or rolls made. One needs explanation: Star frontiers has only a<BR>
smattering skills, each with subskills derived from the skill's level; SF<BR>
characters really do fall into classes by primary skill.<BR>
3rd Gen Games: GURPS, TFT, Hero, CORPS, Reichstar, Car Wars. Points-based<BR>
games.<BR>
4th Gen Games:Template plus choices. Like Space 1889, StarWars, Vampire,<BR>
Werewolf, Fading Suns, Prime Directive. In a few cases, you get several<BR>
templates and extra points; PD you get three templates: Service, Division,<BR>
and Specialty. Service only really varies from race to race, as SFB  & PD<BR>
use that term, and only 3 races have been published (Fed, in the base book;<BR>
Gorn and Lyran in various Captain's Logs). In all the examples, the choice<BR>
of templates is very similar to classes, but unlike classes, the skill's<BR>
the whole thing, and you aren't really limited by. Much like T2300 and<BR>
T2k2e/DC/C&D/TNE, as well, which are right between the t2nd and 4th,<BR>
leaning heavily to the 4th. Emphasis is on skill CHOICES.<BR>
5th Gen Games: priority systems like MechWarrior2 and Shadowrun. Characters<BR>
are meant to ballance, but no strict adherance to "Points" is shown; most<BR>
of these overlap with 1st and 3rd gen games, by having "Template<BR>
Characters", and MW2 even has professional packages which overlap with 4th<BR>
gen games.<BR>
6th Generation Games: FUDGE, Castle Falkenstien, Theatrix. These games<BR>
emphasize write the story, and figure skills from that... the GM is the<BR>
sole arbiter of what a character has and how high, usually based upon<BR>
player input.<BR>
<BR>
Explaning this "hierarchy": I maintained this hierarchy based upon when<BR>
these styles of games became popular, based upon local players, WWIV-net<BR>
groups, Magazine support, Games stores and used book stores in Oregon and<BR>
Alaska.<BR>
<BR>
I recently felt that the distinction needed to be made between 2nd Gen's,<BR>
where class determins skills, and 4th gens, where class provides certain<BR>
skills, and the rest can vary widely, often without regaurd to "class". The<BR>
GDW house system really does open up the skill choices so far that the TNE<BR>
CGen really has current "Template" restrict only a very few skills, if any.<BR>
And because of the "Choose" bit about non-1st-term-in-service, plus the<BR>
significant hobby skills, really a TNE character is 1 to three templates,<BR>
plus several essentially "Pick N Skills". It really is far less "Class<BR>
Based". Also, TNE lacks tight ties between career and starting cash, goods,<BR>
and equipment; exception, starships. T4 also falls here, because you get to<BR>
CHOOSE your skills, unless your GM's a mean SOB like myself. Also, T4 opens<BR>
so many skills to so many career paths, that quite literally, almost every<BR>
career has acess to almost every skill. With the T5 add-ons, it will really<BR>
firmly fit this way... Layers of templates.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the 5th generation, priority based, really provides a different feel.<BR>
I've seen it in non-fasa games occasionally, but it really is nearly a FASA<BR>
hallmark. They are neither point based, although they share many<BR>
similarities, nor are they class based, since they don't require using<BR>
templates, even when they are provided, and they run as purely skill &<BR>
attribute games. Also, all the priority based systems I've seen lack<BR>
disads, but have advantages.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2192<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2193</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2193<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
Classes<BR>
OT: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Black Curtain<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
Re: Black Curtain<BR>
Re: Black Curtain<BR>
Temperature Calculations<BR>
Swycaffer books revisited<BR>
Re: Gambling skill<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
Body armour<BR>
The Beyond<BR>
SUGGESTION re: Black Curtain, Empress Wave, Longbow, etc<BR>
Contract Law 101<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
Traveller 3D maps?<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 19:59:43 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
Could you give me a one-source black body formula for determining surface<BR>
temperature?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:36 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> What you should do (if you're using _First In_) is extend the blackbody<BR>
> temperature formula on page 75 as follows:<BR>
><BR>
> B = 278 * ((fourth root of L1/square root of R1) + (fourth root of<BR>
L2/square<BR>
> root of R2))<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:55:39 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: TML2000 Landgrab web page announcement<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Frank posted Alice's Restaurant, complete, with guitar chords, quotated, and:<BR>
>    Came to talk about the draft.<BR>
<BR>
What was that - roll 1d and that's your career?<BR>
<BR>
Gee, and Martin Dougherty thought _he_ had the thinnest ObTrav on record.<BR>
<BR>
<g,d,& r!!><BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:11:40 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Classes<BR>
<BR>
>> CT restricts characters who are generated via the career tables quite<BR>
>> heavily for a modern game, but for the period it was written it gives a<BR>
>lot<BR>
>> of choices.<BR>
><BR>
>IIRC- MT used identical charts ported over to it from CT in "basic"<BR>
>character generation.<BR>
<BR>
No, they don't. Very simmilar, but the MT tables use more generic<BR>
"Cascades" more often. Also the addition of special duty. Very different<BR>
feel to some; neglible difference to others, but very big changes to<BR>
resultant characters.<BR>
><BR>
>> More importantly, the CT career tables only affect generation of the<BR>
>> character,  Once generated, the character's profession has _no_effect_ on<BR>
>> the game mechanics (except in a "social" way, he ex-Scout geting better<BR>
>lead<BR>
>> on the Scouts bar, etc.)<BR>
><BR>
>This is true although I was not making a distinction between generation<BR>
>and run-time since most systems tend to differentiate between the two.<BR>
><BR>
CT Careers DO have lasting effects: scoutsare on detached duty. Others<BR>
might get retirement pay.<BR>
<BR>
Also, several adventures for CT make distinctions by prior service of<BR>
character involved for non=social activities.<BR>
<BR>
>I recall very distinctly that there were skills that you simply could not<BR>
>get in<BR>
>some of the services UNLESS you got cross-training in a different service<BR>
>and I'm not sure that this was an option for all of the services.<BR>
<BR>
Under CT, this was QUITE true.<BR>
Under MT,almost all careers had acess to 90% of the skills; a few could get<BR>
anything but the ones that NO ONE could get under "Basic Generation". Like<BR>
Recruiting.<BR>
Under TNE, your first term in a career gives you a template. Other terms in<BR>
same career give you a VERY WIDE range of skills; well more than half the<BR>
list, in many cases 90% of the skill list.<BR>
T4 is really very much like MT but you choose your skills... although the<BR>
option for requiring rolls is there.<BR>
t5 is going to be even more choice than T4. More template options, too.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:18:07 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: OT: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Andrew wrote:<BR>
>I'm lucky enough to be spending the month of April in Sydney and was<BR>
>wondering if there are any TML's / RPGs in the area that I could get in<BR>
>touch with for a game or two while I'm in town?<BR>
<BR>
Only if you are visiting Canberra.<BR>
<BR>
Or Brisbane - Roc?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:20:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Nah! The fences around starship salvage yards should be a eclectic mixture of<BR>
> plywood, plastic panels, old rusted side panels from crashed air/rafts and any<BR>
> other salvaged junk the owner doesn't think he can sell, all topped with<BR>
> barbed wire. And don't forget the required "junk yard dogs!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Say, Bruce, is Ricardo ever going to go play with the "crokers" at<BR>
> Pete's-U-Pull-It salvage yard?  Maybe after he gets a snout full of beersies<BR>
> in Startown? <g><BR>
<BR>
Wasn't there a science fiction milieu based on WOODEN starships?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam<BR>
Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra<BR>
Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:53:02 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Loren wrote:<BR>
>Sadly, there is no story. GDW went under before we could publish the final<BR>
>details on these subjects. I am not at liberty to reveal anything else I know<BR>
>on this topic (and what's worse, I can't even explain WHY).<BR>
<BR>
You can't even explain why? Ouch. I would have thought that this was simply part<BR>
of the "no-TNE stuff" agreement between SJG and Far Futures? Or even some sort<BR>
of friendly non-disclosure argeement between yourself, Marc and David Nilsen?<BR>
<BR>
If this was true, it would at least reduce my "need to know" burning curiosity<BR>
to a dull simmer...<BR>
<BR>
Can you at least say if Marc will EVER allow the "official" details to be known<BR>
(much like DGP "spilled the beans" on some of their plots in the final MTJ#4<BR>
issue)?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:54:52 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/26/00 7:53:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, j-man@iname.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Could you give me a one-source black body formula for determining surface<BR>
>  temperature?<BR>
<BR>
B = 278 * (fourth root of L)/(square root of R)<BR>
<BR>
- -- where B is the _blackbody_ surface temperature (i.e. the temperature<BR>
assuming the planet is both a perfect absorber and a perfect radiator of<BR>
heat), L is the star's luminosity in solar units, and R is the planet's<BR>
current distance from the star in AU.  B is in kelvins.<BR>
<BR>
To get actual average surface temperature, you need to throw in<BR>
fudge-factors for the planet's reflectivity (albedo) and greenhouse<BR>
effect.  Hence:<BR>
<BR>
T = B * (fourth root of (1 - A)) * (1 + G)<BR>
<BR>
- -- where T is the average surface temperature in kelvins, B is the<BR>
blackbody temperature as derived above, A is the planet's albedo,<BR>
and G is a fudge factor for the greenhouse effect.  For an Earthlike<BR>
world, A = 0.3 and G = 0.15 are reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
Note that the above is equivalent to the procedure in LBB 6 (Scouts),<BR>
*except* that LBB 6 forgets to take the fourth root of the (1 - A) item.<BR>
That's one reason why it was so hard to get reasonable temperatures<BR>
for worlds using that system -- taking the fourth root tends to reduce<BR>
the effect of albedo considerably.  I don't know whether later sources<BR>
like the World Builder's Handbook corrected this error or not.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:17:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Twin Jump Drives<BR>
<BR>
- ---   <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> wrote:<BR>
>> >>>Would the jump distance increase? Would there be an automatic<BR>
>> >>>catastrophic jump? Time Travel? Awakening of the Ancients? Nothing?<BR>
>> >>>Destruction of the Penguin species?<BR>
><BR>
>I'm seem to recall a Challange article (Project Farstar? or something <BR>
>similar) dealing with this exact thing. I believe (and please remember I'm <BR>
>working from memory here) that the likely results were (in order of <BR>
>probability):<BR>
><BR>
>1 - A rather large bang and everyone dies horribly<BR>
>2 - A rather large bang and everyone probably dies horribly<BR>
>3 - The ship disappears into jump space, never to be seen again<BR>
>4 - Nothing happends, but both Jump drives mutate into rather large <BR>
>extremely radioactive paperweights (see 2)<BR>
>5 - Nothing happens<BR>
>6 - The ship jumps normally at the highest number being used (ie J3 + <J3 <BR>
>= J3)<BR>
>7 - The jump fields sum (ie J3 + J3 = J6)<BR>
>8 - The jump fields multiply (ie J3 + J3 = J9)<BR>
>9 - The jump fields work exponetially (ie J3 + J3 = J27)<BR>
><BR>
>IIRC, Options 6 through 9 required the jump fields to be absolutely <BR>
>precisely alligned and a good deal of pure luck.<BR>
<BR>
Then, of course, there are Options #10 and #11:<BR>
<BR>
11.  The interaction caused by a jump drive activated within jumpspace causes jumpspace in the vicinity of the experiment to cease to operate in accordance with previous jump theory.  Jumpspace is no longer accessible within a given radius of the attempt (at least a 6-hex radius, and at most Known Space), for some period of time (I'd say at least one standard year, with a maximum of [however long it takes to refine jump theory]).<BR>
<BR>
12.  The universe explodes.  If this option is supported _at all_ by any jumpspace theory, such experiments will probably be _strongly_ discouraged....<BR>
<BR>
Note that a reliable, localized version of Option #11 would likely lead to a "jumpspace-denial" weapon.<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Email Powered by Everyone.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:25:27 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <dragon@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "It's Full Of Stars" Traveller 3D map?<BR>
<BR>
What issue?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>There's an old Byte mag that has plans for such a display. *Way* more work<BR>
that I want to deal with.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
Earth first!   We'll strip mine the other planets later...<BR>
<BR>
dragon@mhtc.net<BR>
http://www.mhtc.net/~dragon/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:32:03 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Doug said:<BR>
>Folks, since it's obvious that Loren's silence is related to some legal<BR>
>maneuver can we stop the speculation before we force him to leave the list<BR>
>legal reasons?<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, posted my query before I read Doug's plea. Sorry. Forget it. Just look<BR>
into this little red light...<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:50:40 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Doug said:<BR>
> >Folks, since it's obvious that Loren's silence is related to some legal<BR>
> >maneuver can we stop the speculation before we force him to leave the list<BR>
> >legal reasons?<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm, posted my query before I read Doug's plea. Sorry. Forget it. Just look<BR>
> into this little red light...<BR>
<BR>
_What_ little red light?  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Or, in other words:<BR>
<BR>
<<frantically working levers>><BR>
<BR>
"The Great Oz sees all and knows all!  Pay no attention to the man<BR>
behind the Black Curtain!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:49:50 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Temperature Calculations<BR>
<BR>
On 03/26/00 at 08:54 PM,  JFZeigler@aol.com said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Could you give me a one-source black body formula for determining surface<BR>
>>  temperature?<BR>
<BR>
>B = 278 * (fourth root of L)/(square root of R)<BR>
<BR>
>-- where B is the _blackbody_ surface temperature (i.e. the temperature<BR>
>assuming the planet is both a perfect absorber and a perfect radiator of<BR>
>heat), L is the star's luminosity in solar units, and R is the planet's<BR>
>current distance from the star in AU.  B is in kelvins.<BR>
<BR>
>To get actual average surface temperature, you need to throw in<BR>
>fudge-factors for the planet's reflectivity (albedo) and greenhouse<BR>
>effect.  Hence:<BR>
<BR>
>T = B * (fourth root of (1 - A)) * (1 + G)<BR>
<BR>
>-- where T is the average surface temperature in kelvins, B is the<BR>
>blackbody temperature as derived above, A is the planet's albedo, and G<BR>
>is a fudge factor for the greenhouse effect.  For an Earthlike world, A =<BR>
>0.3 and G = 0.15 are reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
>Note that the above is equivalent to the procedure in LBB 6 (Scouts),<BR>
>*except* that LBB 6 forgets to take the fourth root of the (1 - A) item.<BR>
>That's one reason why it was so hard to get reasonable temperatures for<BR>
>worlds using that system -- taking the fourth root tends to reduce the<BR>
>effect of albedo considerably.  I don't know whether later sources like<BR>
>the World Builder's Handbook corrected this error or not.<BR>
<BR>
Well, you're right temperature calculations have always been a bugbear...for me anyway. <BR>
<BR>
Hum, here's B6's formula...<BR>
<BR>
T = K*G*(1-A)*(L^0.25)/(D^0.5)<BR>
<BR>
where<BR>
    K = 374.025, a constant determined from Terra based an avg 288k temperature<BR>
    G = Greenhouse (1.10 for standard atmospheres)<BR>
    A = Albedo (0.3 for Terra)<BR>
    L = Luminosity in solar units (1 for Sol)<BR>
    D = Distance from  star in AU (1 for Sol)<BR>
<BR>
It looks like there's more different than a fourth root difference n Albedo. Why the difference in the 278 and 374?  And is it 278 or 288?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:52:22 EST<BR>
From: JDoch226@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Swycaffer books revisited<BR>
<BR>
Did any of the Swycaffer books focus on the Vargr, or Aslan, or K'Kree?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Jed <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:29:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard wrote:<BR>
>>You want "dramatic"? Check out "Big Hand For the Little Lady". That has<BR>
>>to be *the* most dramatic card game ever. And it's well suited to be<BR>
>>transplanted from the Western background to Traveller.<BR>
>><BR>
>>And if your players haven't seen it, they *need* to be run thru it. :-)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Oooh! You are *evil*. Bad GM, baaad! <g><BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, but in a way, the scenario as presented in the movie is such<BR>
that the GM *does* get punished. Why? Because the players won't know<BR>
they've been scammed...<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the easy way to solve *that* is to invite a few over to<BR>
watch some movies and show the movie. But have an escape route<BR>
prepared, you'll likely need it!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:28:51 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> of long past storms as *real* passing storms.  Picture your stereotypical<BR>
> Maine resident discussing Nor'easters..<BR>
<BR>
That would be No'th Eastah, my flatlander friend :-\<BR>
<BR>
- -Maine Yankee<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:30:24 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
If this is about the TNE Black Curtain, then I can<BR>
guess why... it may be because Mr. Nilsen is hoping to <BR>
develop the TNE storyline further some time in the future.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:34:40 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: GT-Q: "Stop the ship, I want to get off!!!"<BR>
<BR>
On 24 Mar 00, at 16:43, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 23:24 -0500 23/3/00, Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> wrote: >I<BR>
> just subscribed to TML (the Traveller mailing list for us GURPS >types) a<BR>
> couple of days ago, and one concept that appears repeatedly >is that a<BR>
> "lanathium(sp?) grid" in hull of the jumpship conducts the >energy to open<BR>
> the hole into jump space and protects the vessel from >its effects. If so,<BR>
> does this mean *every* auxilary vehicle that may >be carried in an<BR>
> external cradle must have such a grid in its hull >whether it is jump<BR>
> capable or not? Are external vehicle cradles (and >by extension LASH<BR>
> tenders) even *allowed* in canonical Traveller?<BR>
> <BR>
> CT had the lanthanum in the drive coils (IIRC). I don't recall if <BR>
> hull grids were canon then. MT brought the hull grid, as did TNE and T4.<BR>
<BR>
I'd be absolutely facinated in just where TNE mentions jump grids. I'm <BR>
fairly sure that they were done away with so that grapples would work. <BR>
Besides IIRC Dave Nilsen prefered the jump coil (as do I).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:35:21 -0600<BR>
From: Michael Maley <mmaley@home.com><BR>
Subject: Body armour<BR>
<BR>
One of the odd things I've noticed in most traveller books is the<BR>
overheating problems with most body armours(other than battledress).<BR>
This has always bothered me since I assume at higher tech levels the<BR>
overheating problems would be eliminated or at least alleviated.  In my<BR>
campaigns I've allowed that any flex  or diplo armour of TL 9+ does not<BR>
cause discomfort for the wear using either electrical or biochemical<BR>
methods of heat dispersion.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone any thoughts on this subject.<BR>
<BR>
darkhstarr<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:39:39 -0600<BR>
From: Michael Maley <mmaley@home.com><BR>
Subject: The Beyond<BR>
<BR>
I've just added text system information from my campaign onto my site<BR>
for the Beyond sector.  With any luck I'll have all the sectors typed up<BR>
by Tuesday.  Some of the information is per Paranoid Press' Beyond book<BR>
and some I've added or adapted for my campaign.<BR>
<BR>
darkhstarr (link if interested is below)<BR>
<BR>
www.geocities.com/area51/shuttle/4897/darkhstarr/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:37:10 -0600<BR>
From: Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net><BR>
Subject: SUGGESTION re: Black Curtain, Empress Wave, Longbow, etc<BR>
<BR>
Hey folks -<BR>
<BR>
If you're just itching to get the TNE storyline<BR>
developed, then perhaps y'all should send a message<BR>
to Mssrs. Miller, Wiseman, and Nilsen, and tell them <BR>
that Mr. Nilsen did a great job keeping things mysterious<BR>
and cool, and that he should be employed to further<BR>
develop the TNE line.<BR>
<BR>
The pen is mightier than the sword, etc etc.<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:19:39 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
Bolie Williams IV wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A contract exists only when there has been an exchange.  If you<BR>
> just promise to do something gratis, it's not a contract.  At<BR>
> least not legally.<BR>
<BR>
Be careful.  Promises to do something for free CAN be legally<BR>
enforceable, i.e., as valid as any other sort of contract.<BR>
<BR>
If contract law were that simple, law schools would go away.<BR>
Maybe thats a good thing.<BR>
<BR>
[I can hear Glenn writing his response right now  ;-)   ]<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:13:46 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
At 17:04 26.03.00 -0600, Bolie Williams IV wrote:<BR>
>At 4:56 PM -0500 3/26/2000, Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>
>>Howdy!<BR>
>><BR>
>>>  In a message dated 00-03-26 13:16:57 EST, you write:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>  << Can you at least el us who is behind this coverup?<BR>
>>>    >><BR>
>>><BR>
>>>  Nothing legal or contractual is involved. I gave my word I wouldn't tell.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>  LKW<BR>
>>><BR>
>>One could argue that giving one's word makes a contract...<BR>
>>I'd certainly buy the argument.<BR>
><BR>
>A contract exists only when there has been an exchange.  If you<BR>
>just promise to do something gratis, it's not a contract.  At<BR>
>least not legally.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, it's understandable that Loren can't tell anything about it, be it<BR>
a contract or not.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:43:12 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Traveller 3D maps?<BR>
<BR>
At 14:56 26.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip: two-plane 3D star map]<BR>
>> I made up a Traveller subsector in a similar way (measuring 8*8*10 parsecs,<BR>
>> and with a 3D version of Charted space), but soon found out that for<BR>
>> Traveller, there is a slight problem: You have to compute *every* distance<BR>
>> to see whether you can jump there or not. This is really unconformtable.<BR>
><BR>
>Not true. Just check the distance on the two maps (btw, the X-Y map can<BR>
>be a regular hex map. The other map just has to "join" it at the<BR>
>"staggered" end). If the distance on either map is greater than your<BR>
>jump number, forget it. That means you only have to check *some* routes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
True. I forgot to mention that. I even made up circles as holes in<BR>
papershhets to lay on both maps with the center at the starting-point star.<BR>
Still, you have to either compute the cocrdinates or add a third map plane<BR>
to be sure that you can reach it.<BR>
<BR>
*sigh* <BR>
And now try to make up a jump _route_...let's say, along a line of five to<BR>
ten star systems.<BR>
<BR>
You see?<BR>
:(<BR>
<BR>
>> And the same is true for a real modell.<BR>
><BR>
>Sure, but with a real model, you do the same thing you do on a flat,<BR>
>non-hexmap. You take out a "ruler" and *measure*. <BR>
<BR>
Oops. True. :-) <BR>
<BR>
Though it always found it most comfortable to count the hexes.<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>Or we can go back to real world maps, and have one of those "trip<BR>
>distance" charts that shows the distance between any pair of stars on<BR>
>the map.<BR>
><BR>
>Without *planning* to use it on a computer, I suspect that doing this<BR>
>for anything except the real world stars is a waste of time. <BR>
<BR>
Well, for computing a table like the one you describe, a GM can use a<BR>
computer and then presnt the results to the players. But that has as much<BR>
flavour as... you know what.<BR>
<BR>
>ps. the groups I gamed with pretty much always met in the same place.<BR>
>And if they were still active, one place would be my apartment, where I<BR>
>could almost issue each player a workstation <grin>. <BR>
><BR>
>The other would be the shop we used to meet at after hours. These days,<BR>
>there'd already be a suitable system there.<BR>
<BR>
Ooh. No, a computer at the game table is IMHO the best way to split your<BR>
player's attention. I wouldn't do that. Really.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller 3D maps are a nice idea, but I feel that not only it's a waste of<BR>
existing background material (t least large parts of it), it also presents<BR>
so many practical problems for the presentation at the game table that it<BR>
is no longer an attractiove idea for me.(For a jump drive as in Traveller,<BR>
that is. For a warp-drive, it's fairly doable. But you know which universe<BR>
uses Warp drives? Sigh!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:14:34 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/26/00 8:13 PM, Ingo Heinscher<BR>
Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Anyway, it's understandable that Loren can't tell anything about it, be it<BR>
> a contract or not.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed. I wonder if he could tell us whether or not it would be a waste of<BR>
ones time to go of on a tangent and weave the EW into their campaign. It<BR>
would be a shame to perform redundant work. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:49:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
> On Behalf Of Jens Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
> > At least Loren's not trying to say "Jehovah" (oh,<BR>
> > no)..THUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
> > THUDTHUDTHWACKTHUD<BR>
> > <BR>
> > (any M.Python fans out there?)<BR>
> <BR>
> Certainly.<BR>
> <BR>
> Note that I live in Sweden...<BR>
> <BR>
> Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
<BR>
But what about the llamas ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2193<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2194<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: Traveller 3D maps?<BR>
lost mail<BR>
Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Trav FAQ?<BR>
Re: Gambling skill<BR>
Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
Re: Classes<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:56:37 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
><BR>
> But what about the llamas ?<BR>
<BR>
Don't llamas live in big rivers like the Amazon? And they have a beak for<BR>
eating honey? I don't think that they live in Sweden.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:10:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller 3D maps?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 14:56 26.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> [snip: two-plane 3D star map]<BR>
<BR>
> *sigh* <BR>
> And now try to make up a jump _route_...let's say, along a line of five to<BR>
> ten star systems.<BR>
><BR>
> You see?<BR>
> :(<BR>
<BR>
On a model, you just use colored thread for the "fixed" routes. <BR>
<BR>
>>Or we can go back to real world maps, and have one of those "trip<BR>
>>distance" charts that shows the distance between any pair of stars on<BR>
>>the map.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Without *planning* to use it on a computer, I suspect that doing this<BR>
>>for anything except the real world stars is a waste of time. <BR>
><BR>
> Well, for computing a table like the one you describe, a GM can use a<BR>
> computer and then presnt the results to the players. But that has as much<BR>
> flavour as... you know what.<BR>
<BR>
>>ps. the groups I gamed with pretty much always met in the same place.<BR>
>>And if they were still active, one place would be my apartment, where I<BR>
>>could almost issue each player a workstation <grin>. <BR>
>><BR>
>>The other would be the shop we used to meet at after hours. These days,<BR>
>>there'd already be a suitable system there.<BR>
><BR>
> Ooh. No, a computer at the game table is IMHO the best way to split your<BR>
> player's attention. I wouldn't do that. Really.<BR>
<BR>
Depends on the computer. And how it is used.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:48:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: lost mail<BR>
<BR>
I accidentally nuked all the mail my system received since noon Sunday.<BR>
So if anyone posted a message I should reply to, please resend it to me.<BR>
<BR>
<sigh><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:25:15 EST<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Why 8 parsecs x 10 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/21/00 8:26:01 PM Central Standard Time, ericfrei@gte.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 <BR>
 For our Universe:  8 x 10 fits nicely on one page of a LBB.<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
  >><BR>
Precisely right. <BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:44:22 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:01:37 -0800<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>    In the 1st edition you had access to all of the skills. In 2nd edition,<BR>
>you did<BR>
>not. The 1st edition one used points to purchase whatever skills you wanted<BR>
>and in 2nd you had to switch around from class to class to get the ones<BR>
>you wanted.<BR>
<BR>
In the first edition there is a strong incentive in most specialties to max<BR>
out<BR>
in the primary skill for that specialty. Resulting IMO in a more homogenous<BR>
charecter. In the second you chose more or less freely among available<BR>
skills. If you wish for skills that aren't provided you choose a diferent<BR>
career for your next term. (Assuming war doesn't break out of course.)<BR>
Looking back at it I can see where you're coming from on this.<BR>
<BR>
As an aside - I noticed that I lost the charecter creation cheat sheet for<BR>
1st<BR>
ed T2K. Would it be possible for somebody to mail/e-mail me a copy of it?<BR>
(I'm just full of out of print game requests this week aren't I?)<BR>
<BR>
>    For RM, whew- another game that I have not touched in years. Okay, in<BR>
>answering, I have to say that I played the 1st edition game and it was a<BR>
>long<BR>
>time ago.<BR>
>    I would place RM in the category of a class-based system as well. One<BR>
of<BR>
>the things that I recall was that it was very restrictive in what<BR>
>skills/abilities<BR>
>you could have as well.<BR>
>    Race and Class both played together and your best bet was to know the<BR>
>rules really well and choose a class and race that went well together in<BR>
>order<BR>
>to start with "average" chances of around 50% on doing things.<BR>
>    Don't jump on me too badly here if my memory does not serve me<BR>
>correctly on these counts- but please bring it to my attention and remind<BR>
me<BR>
>of how it does work :-)<BR>
<BR>
Your memory is close to how it works in the 2nd edition, which is what I<BR>
have. The things that open it up a little (in the second edition at least.)<BR>
are<BR>
the background points method of choosing skills. You can choose any skill<BR>
you want but some skills cost more for some classes. A fighter can learn<BR>
magic lists (though only up to level 5) and a mage can learn to use the<BR>
Two-handed sword and manuever in plate armor. Neither may learn the<BR>
others primary skills quickly but it can be done.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, sorta Like 1st ed T2K. :)<BR>
<BR>
Also as an optional rule a "no profession" profession (quotes in origional<BR>
text) exists with more ballanced developement point costs for skills.<BR>
<BR>
Rolemaster has a sort of sick hold on my mind. Lots and lots of good ideas<BR>
thrown together all higledy-pigledy into a game with no real underlying<BR>
structure or theme.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>    Many class-based systems start the character with a good pool of<BR>
>skills and abilities that either do not advance, or advance very slowly,<BR>
>just as Traveller does.<BR>
>    Just a small note here, I am talking about class-based games that<BR>
>use a more "traditional" class, rather than those using "packages" or<BR>
>"careers".<BR>
<BR>
Do you have any examples other than Traveller for this. I haven't seen<BR>
any games that I would classify as class based with slow level advancement.<BR>
I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen any. The only game I<BR>
can<BR>
think of that has level advancement with low increases in ability is the 1st<BR>
ed<BR>
of Gamma World, a totally classless game. (in the sense that charecter<BR>
classes do not exist. I still think it's the best damn game TSR ever put<BR>
out.<BR>
Silly but lots of fun.)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>> In what sense is Traveller a level based system? After chargen<BR>
>> a character is about as powerfull as it's ever going to get.<BR>
>> Dave Shayne<BR>
><BR>
>    The fact that you have levels for skills makes it level-based. Let<BR>
>me make a clarification that class-based and level-based in this<BR>
>discussion are definitely two different things.<BR>
>    An example of both being level-based. Traveller task resolution<BR>
>uses skill level. Each level accounts for a 1 in 11 increase in your<BR>
>ability in that skill (okay staticians, I know this is simplified but it<BR>
>works<BR>
>for the example). AD&D's "to hit" roll increases as you go up in level<BR>
>granting you a 5% increase as opposed to the 9% increase that<BR>
>Traveller give you.<BR>
<BR>
So any system where a charecter can have a beter chance of doing<BR>
something then another charecter is level based by your definition?<BR>
Doesn't that make any RPG level based? At least any RPG where<BR>
a charecters skills and/or attributes affect the odds of successfully<BR>
acting? If it's true of all games it ceases to be a meaningful point<BR>
of comparison.<BR>
<BR>
>    Mostly, I classify Traveller as a "class-based" system because it<BR>
>does restrict you on which skills you can have based upon the career<BR>
>choices that you make.<BR>
<BR>
I still think I disagree with you but thats okay. I can sorta see where<BR>
you're coming from but it doesn't work for me.<BR>
<BR>
>    Also, let me make sure that it is stated again that I am basing all<BR>
>of my posts in this thread on CT and MT as those are the only two<BR>
>Traveller products that I've played/read/used.<BR>
<BR>
I am responding to you primarily based on my understanding of CT<BR>
so we have at least that in common.<BR>
><BR>
>Later and good gaming.<BR>
><BR>
>Jesse.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Flipside. May your battery pack always be charged.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"Now the workers have struck for fame<BR>
    cuz Lennon's on sale again." - David Bowie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 23:23:52 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Trav FAQ?<BR>
<BR>
  This may have been mentioned recently already, and it doesn't<BR>
cover things like drop tanks, but...:<BR>
<BR>
        HTTP://members.aol.com/Traveller/T200-00.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:33:27 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Evey crooked gambler's worst nightmare is discovering that his "mark"<BR>
> is a *better* crooked gambler...<BR>
<BR>
The proper term here is Grifter.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:57:58 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alien thoughts<BR>
<BR>
On 24 Mar 00, at 20:51, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 03/24/00 at 10:45 AM,  "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> said:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Are they any relation to NA possum?  They also are reputed to be<BR>
> >> edible, though gamy.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> However, I'd have a problem eating fellow Lodge brothers. Carpe Ductum!<BR>
> <BR>
> <grin> A fellow Possum Lodge member, I see. <BR>
> <BR>
> >I don't think so. The Aussie possum (IIRC the correct spelling is <BR>
> >actually "Opossum") is a herbivourous marsupial about the size of a large<BR>
> >cat. They climb well and are a serious pest in New Zealand, where along<BR>
> >with goats, wasps and deer they are destroying our native  forests. At<BR>
> >one point they were trapped heavily for their fur, but when  the greenies<BR>
> >destroyed the world fur market that feel by the wayside  and only<BR>
> >recently has there been any recovery.<BR>
> <BR>
> That sounds like the possum I know and love here in the American<BR>
> south.  Ours are usually somewhat *bigger* than a cat and they are<BR>
> omnivorous.  I'll bet yours are too.  OTOH, the idea of a possum fur<BR>
> coat makes me laugh!!!  <g><BR>
<BR>
I guess it depends on how large the large cat is. I do seem to recall <BR>
the South America had similar possums to ours - are yours imports? Our <BR>
possums aren't technically omnivores, and I've never heard of them <BR>
hunting anything, but I've no doubt that if they were to find small <BR>
dead things such as mice they'd eat them. Their favourite food is <BR>
things like new rose buds, fresh friut tree leaves, etc. BTW it's a <BR>
bold cat that'll take on a possums, as their claws are very long (for <BR>
climbing trees) and they can disembowel a cat, but dogs think they're <BR>
fine sport if they can catch them on the ground. They also carry <BR>
hydatids and TB, so you have to cook them well before eating them or <BR>
feeding them to your dogs.<BR>
<BR>
At opne point the general public seemed to find them cute, but public <BR>
opinion has swung the other way, and ads for rally car races that star <BR>
possum road-kills are considered amusing and witty.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:13:18 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 00, at 8:39, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 05:46 PM 3/24/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in the<BR>
> >Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
> <BR>
> Wow. That's very impressive. The Rim is quite possible the richest area of<BR>
> charted space. <BR>
<BR>
This brings to mind a thought I had the other day - That the Solomani <BR>
Rim War ended when it did not because the 3I was satisfied with <BR>
capturing Terra for morale reasons, but because by then it had control <BR>
of most of the Solomani Rim. This even follows the dictum that in <BR>
Traveller economics is everything. It also explains why the 3I made <BR>
TL15 during the war, and why the Confederation never did - the Rim with <BR>
its predominately Solomani/Terran culture and great wealth would be the <BR>
most likely place for "true" TL15 worlds to first appear, and their <BR>
capture would both boost the Imperium's TL and tear the guts out of the <BR>
Solomani R&D and TL boost programs (not to mention their economy as a <BR>
whole).<BR>
<BR>
This also explains why the Solomani didn't penetrate further into the <BR>
Imperium during the "Rebellion" - they weren't really very interested <BR>
in caturing Diaspora, etc, but put all their effort into capturing the <BR>
Solomani Rim intact, which is much harder than just taking it however <BR>
one can.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:23:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> point 1: SFB is NOT roleplaying. PrimeDirective is, is set in the smae<BR>
> univers but is mechanically incompatable, and is template based. I love<BR>
It.<BR>
> I've Run It. Repeatedly. If Traveller is Class Based, so is PD.<BR>
<BR>
Granted. SFB and Car Wars were actually only inserted to give a feel for<BR>
point-based as opposed to skills-based games since very few RPGs are<BR>
actually point-based.<BR>
<BR>
> I see about 6 generations of games:<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
    Yes, I stuck with "basic" break-downs, not wanting to go into the great<BR>
depths of various generations, hybrids of the three basic systems, and<BR>
all the other jazz- but that was an interesting take on the generations.<BR>
<BR>
> Explaning this "hierarchy": I maintained this hierarchy based upon when<BR>
> these styles of games became popular, based upon local players, WWIV-net<BR>
> groups, Magazine support, Games stores and used book stores in Oregon and<BR>
> Alaska.<BR>
<BR>
    I'm not sure about Oregon, but I can say that attempts to base the<BR>
hierarchy<BR>
in Alaska will put you a good year or two behind- At least in the Anchorage<BR>
area<BR>
unless a lot has changed there in the last two years :-)<BR>
<BR>
<snipped notes on TNE for the sake of brevity><BR>
> William F. Hostman<BR>
<BR>
    My points on Traveller were also in regard to MT and CT, because<BR>
of a lack of general knowledge of T4, T: NE, GT, and T5 although from<BR>
everything I've heard about T4 it sounds like it's close enough to match<BR>
the bill as well.<BR>
    Anyway, has anyone noticed how one thread with a relatively harmless<BR>
comment in relation to explaining what a person is trying to say will lead<BR>
to several arguments/discussions nowhere near related to the original?<BR>
    Is it just me or does it seem that people really do like to argue? (Not<BR>
targetted at you William- don't take offense :-)<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:28:44 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes<BR>
<BR>
> >IIRC- MT used identical charts ported over to it from CT in "basic"<BR>
> >character generation.<BR>
<BR>
> No, they don't. Very simmilar, but the MT tables use more generic<BR>
> "Cascades" more often. Also the addition of special duty. Very different<BR>
> feel to some; neglible difference to others, but very big changes to<BR>
> resultant characters.<BR>
<BR>
    Heh. Glad I put that IIRC in there :-) I could remember comparing the<BR>
charts and knew they were close, but for the life of me I couldn't remember<BR>
what the big differences were- Thanks William.<BR>
<BR>
> >> More importantly, the CT career tables only affect generation of the<BR>
> >> character,  Once generated, the character's profession has _no_effect_<BR>
on<BR>
> >> the game mechanics (except in a "social" way, he ex-Scout geting better<BR>
> >lead on the Scouts bar, etc.)<BR>
<BR>
> >This is true although I was not making a distinction between generation<BR>
> >and run-time since most systems tend to differentiate between the two.<BR>
<BR>
> CT Careers DO have lasting effects: scoutsare on detached duty. Others<BR>
> might get retirement pay.<BR>
> Also, several adventures for CT make distinctions by prior service of<BR>
> character involved for non=social activities.<BR>
<BR>
    Good point William, although I was afraid that the response to this<BR>
thought was going to be something along the lines of it being "game play"<BR>
as opposed to "rules mechanics" so I left it alone.<BR>
<BR>
> >I recall very distinctly that there were skills that you simply could not<BR>
> >get in<BR>
> >some of the services UNLESS you got cross-training in a different service<BR>
> >and I'm not sure that this was an option for all of the services.<BR>
<BR>
> Under CT, this was QUITE true.<BR>
> Under MT,almost all careers had acess to 90% of the skills; a few could<BR>
get<BR>
> anything but the ones that NO ONE could get under "Basic Generation". Like<BR>
> Recruiting.<BR>
<BR>
    The above were the two systems that I was referring to of course :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Under TNE, your first term in a career gives you a template. Other terms<BR>
in<BR>
> same career give you a VERY WIDE range of skills; well more than half the<BR>
> list, in many cases 90% of the skill list.<BR>
<BR>
    Is this anything like T2k 2nd ed.? Where you get a set of skills, then<BR>
in<BR>
subsequent terms you get to choose from a rather large list?<BR>
<BR>
> T4 is really very much like MT but you choose your skills... although the<BR>
> option for requiring rolls is there.<BR>
<BR>
Cool.<BR>
<BR>
> t5 is going to be even more choice than T4. More template options, too.<BR>
> William F. Hostman<BR>
<BR>
How is the choice/template option supposed to generally work in T5?<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:00:22 +0200<BR>
From: Holger Kadlez <paradin@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> What you should do (if you're using _First In_) is extend the blackbody<BR>
> temperature formula on page 75 as follows:<BR>
> <BR>
> B = 278 * ((fourth root of L1/square root of R1) + (fourth root of L2/square<BR>
> root of R2))<BR>
> <BR>
> -- where L1, L2 are the luminosities of the two stars, and R1, R2 are the<BR>
> distances from each star to the world in question.  Then take the B<BR>
> that you get and apply it normally in the second formula for average<BR>
> surface temperature.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I have got a problem with this formula. Consider the following two cases:<BR>
<BR>
A) Two stars 1 and 2, at the same distance R=1 of the black body:<BR>
   Giving both the same luminosity L=1, will result in <BR>
   B = 278 * ( ( 4sqrt(1)/sqrt(1) ) + ( 4sqrt(1)/sqrt(1) ) ) = 568<BR>
   Total energy-input:  L=2  ==>  B=568<BR>
   Double Energy-input ==> Double temperature, which cannot be right, IMHO.<BR>
<BR>
B) One star, with L=2 gives you<BR>
   B = 278 * ( 4sqrt(2)/sqrt(1) ) = 278 * 1.1892 = 330,6<BR>
   Total energy-input:  L=2  ==>  B=330,6<BR>
   Same energy-input as above, but a definitly lower temperature.<BR>
   This feels better, IMHO<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
IMHO, the the Blackbody-temperature for a system with multiple stars<BR>
should be:<BR>
<BR>
B = 278 * fourth root( summ of( L_i / (R_i)^2 ) )<BR>
<BR>
L_i are the luminosities of the stars and R_i are the distances of the<BR>
stars to the body.<BR>
<BR>
For example, a system with two stars<BR>
<BR>
B = 278 * fourth root(  L_1/(R_1)^2  + L_2/(R_2)^2  )<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On the other side, I could be wrong, for it's early in the morning <BR>
(for me, personally) and I'm mentally still in the week-end; so I'm <BR>
(mostly) literally not up to date ...<BR>
<BR>
Tschau,<BR>
	Paradin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:39:17 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 00, at 22:45, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > 2.) LSJCs appear to be a TL12 item (probably working *only* with<BR>
> > >     TL12 Jump Drives at X times the drive's mass and volume and Y<BR>
> > >     times its cost) and must be imported from "the interior." This<BR>
> > >     means that while the Imperial navy and some rich corporations like<BR>
> > >     Tukera Lines will be able to afford it, the smaller and/or less<BR>
> > >     technologically advanced firms will not.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > (Note 1: I'm referring to the GURPS Tech Levels here, which would be<BR>
> > Traveller TL 15. Are there any canonical specs on this unit I could<BR>
> > translate into GURPS terms?)<BR>
> <BR>
> Unfortunately, this press release is very old (like about issue 1 of<BR>
> JTAS). It is also in conflicy with other products also recognised as<BR>
> Traveller Canon, such as High Guard and Trillion Credit Squadron, which<BR>
> allow drop tanks at much lower TLs.<BR>
<BR>
And everything since, as Gazelle's use drop tanks, and they're TL14 in <BR>
everything they appear in.<BR>
<BR>
> My personal solution as a GM is to say "Sure. Go ahead. Feel free. <BR>
> You can even buy re-usable ones for 10 times the cost. By the way,<BR>
> the expected misjump chance is about 1 in 126, with about half of <BR>
> those being lethal".<BR>
><BR>
> This means that your Drop Tank Express has an expected life of about<BR>
> 256 jumps, which at a jump every 10 days means about 8 years before<BR>
> it can expect to be lost with all hands in jump space. Have fun with<BR>
> those new Return on Investment equations.<BR>
> <BR>
> On the other hand, it means you can use Drop Tanks in their proper<BR>
> role, which is for deep-penetration missions into enemy space (puts<BR>
> everything within 8 parsecs of the border within the range of a jump-<BR>
> 4 squadron). Heck, the extra 0.5% chance of loss will be rounding<BR>
> error in those sort of missions.<BR>
<BR>
It also explains why ships like the Gazelle don't routinely dump their <BR>
tanks when going from one base to another in peace time (assuming one <BR>
allows reuseable drop tanks, which I always did).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:47:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D20 'open' game system?<BR>
<BR>
Hey All,<BR>
<BR>
    I am about to take Eris's response on this thread and<BR>
the other regarding whether Traveller is class-based or not<BR>
as both have broken down to a debate.<BR>
    Let's agree to disagree and move onward, I want to talk<BR>
about cool Traveller stuffs like Alien cultures and the dynamics<BR>
of Jumpspace- I deal with design and game-writing every day<BR>
and just don't want to deal with it in my "spare time" as well.<BR>
    Those of you who are typing up your next barrage of<BR>
responses- feel free to post and you'll have the last word on<BR>
this thread, then we can move on to bigger and better things :-)<BR>
    In Essence, yes Traveller would work with the d20 system,<BR>
but some work would need to be done on the Referee's part.<BR>
Tweaking would not really need to be done as much as writing<BR>
up the "careers" in the d20 format.<BR>
    I'm probably bailing on a good long discussion, but it's not<BR>
having the relaxing affect on me because of work being the same<BR>
thing- sorry guys.<BR>
<BR>
Later and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:54:42 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Wilds?<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 00, at 19:26, Ingo Heinscher wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Hi!<BR>
> <BR>
> Searching through the Galactic databases, I stumbled across worlds with an<BR>
> odd allegiance: "Wilds" in the TNE galaxy. While I know generally what TNE<BR>
> is and the basics about the Virus, I couldn't find anything about those<BR>
> "Wilds".<BR>
> <BR>
> Can any grognard help me?  <BR>
<BR>
It means that the world not only has no aliegance to any interstellar <BR>
government, but that it's part of the "wilds" - unclaimed, dangerous <BR>
space. It also means that its UWP number for government is read off a <BR>
different table.<BR>
<BR>
Here's the Wilds government type table:<BR>
<BR>
Code Description<BR>
0    No Government<BR>
1    Tribal Government<BR>
2    Participating Democracy<BR>
3    Representative Democracy<BR>
4    Charismatic Dictator<BR>
5    Charismatic Oligarchy<BR>
6    Technologically Elevated Dictator (TED)<BR>
7    Mystic Dictatorship<BR>
8    Totalitarian Oligarchy<BR>
9    Mytic Autocracy<BR>
A    Civil Service Bureaucracy<BR>
B    Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy<BR>
C    Impersonal Bureaucracy<BR>
<BR>
Most of these are the same as standard types, or obvious variations. <BR>
TED's are a sort of Feudal Technocracy gone bad, with those at the top <BR>
using hoarded relic technology to repress and dominate those at the <BR>
bottom.<BR>
<BR>
Also you'll notice a code "B" (usually in the travel code column) which <BR>
means the world is balkanised - a much more common state of affair in <BR>
the New Era than in the old days.<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:54:42 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 00, at 16:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> >     a - Feed the long storage jump capacitor (LSJC).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > This is my big problem with the idea of drop tanks - if we have some<BR>
> > sort of new high capacity capacitor, then on behalf of Famile Spofulam,<BR>
> > I want the full technical specs to allow a radical reduction in the size<BR>
> > of our Particle Accelerator Weapon systems. Energy is energy, right ?<BR>
> <BR>
> Not necessarily. <BR>
> <BR>
> Personally, I dislike the "capacitor" and "zuchai crystal" setups<BR>
> because I've *seen* the way some players abuse them. They had warships<BR>
> that had them everywhere they could spare the space. The only good thing<BR>
> was when they managed to get one of a group of these overpowered<BR>
> nightmares too close to a blast. So the black globe failed, so the<BR>
> "capacitors" were destroyed, releasing all *their* energy, which as more<BR>
> than enough to "touch off" the LH2 in the tanks in a fusion blast...<BR>
> <BR>
> The combined energy of this from the first ship managed to "chain<BR>
> reaction" the rest of their "fleet" (a dozen or so ships). And released<BR>
> such an obscene amount of energy that... well, let's just say that the<BR>
> planet they were orbiting wasn't in very good shape...<BR>
> <BR>
> On the other hand, drop tanksd strike me as quite reasonable. Of<BR>
> course, I'm a "fuel is all used up initiating the jump" person. <BR>
> <BR>
> >> > >  L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost<BR>
> >> > >  per jump. However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo<BR>
> > tonnage<BR>
> >> > >  resulting from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more<BR>
> >> > >  than makes up for this, the press release explained.<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Given the technology, why cant they be made re-usable ?<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah. All they need is to be picked up, and probably refurbished a bit. If<BR>
> after that, they fail the re-cert test, they are sold as scrap. <BR>
> <BR>
> I expect that "failed re-cert" drop tanks get used for all sorts of<BR>
> things. They are probably ok for storing LH2 or LOX at "mining camps" in<BR>
> the belt. If big enough, I expect that some get turned into living<BR>
> quarters or storage modules. <BR>
> <BR>
> And on world with significant hydro, some wind up on world being used as<BR>
> "floats" or as boat hulls (this is done with *aircraft* drop tanks!). <BR>
> <BR>
> And, if all else fails, they are worth something as scrap metal.<BR>
> <BR>
> So I can just about guarantee that in even semi-developed systems,<BR>
> there will be somebody hanging around near the 100 dia limit and<BR>
> waiting for traffic control to let him go in and pick up the dropped<BR>
> tanks. <BR>
> <BR>
> Note that while hitting one is unlikely, the folks at traffic control will<BR>
> be a lot happier if they get picked up. <BR>
> <BR>
> >> > 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
> >> >     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
> >> >     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
> >> >     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
> >> >     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
> >> >     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive<BR>
> > misjump insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew<BR>
> > and passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
> <BR>
> The odds of being found are *way* too low. If you land in a system,<BR>
> that's one thing. If you (much more likely) land in an empty hex, it's<BR>
> going to take 3.26 years *minimum* for your signal to reach a system (and<BR>
> that's assuming that there's one within one hex). And the odds of it being<BR>
> *noticed* are low, even if it *is* an inhabited system. <BR>
> <BR>
> Lets say you have a megawatt transmitter. At one parsec, it's going to be<BR>
> down to 84e-12 *picowatts* per square kilometer... Nobody is going to hear<BR>
> that over background noise unless they've got a *major* radio telescope<BR>
> aimed right at you.<BR>
<BR>
How about if you aimed your maser at the nearest inhabited system and <BR>
used that? It should spread enough to be useful, and might have enough <BR>
power to do some good.<BR>
<BR>
FWIW a system wide radio consumes 20MW in FFS1, and a system range <BR>
maser 0.6MW (lasers use only 0.3MW).<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2194<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2195<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Black Curtain<BR>
[BITS] Breaking News on Change of GenCon UK 2000's Venue<BR>
The TNE Storyline<BR>
Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
Re: gambling<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: gambling<BR>
Re: Body Armour<BR>
re: Your name in Vilani<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
Re: Black Curtain: MT revealed plotlines<BR>
Re: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:21:01 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
At 0:50 -0500 27/3/00, Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>wrote:<BR>
>_What_ little red light?  ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>Or, in other words:<BR>
><BR>
><<frantically working levers>><BR>
><BR>
>"The Great Oz sees all and knows all!  Pay no attention to the man<BR>
>behind the Black Curtain!"<BR>
<BR>
That's no man! That's a Hiver!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:06:38 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] Breaking News on Change of GenCon UK 2000's Venue<BR>
<BR>
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
For those who may have not picked up the information already<BR>
<BR>
The dates and venue for Gen Con UK 2000 have now been confirmed.<BR>
<BR>
DATE<BR>
Thursday 31st August 2000 to Sunday 3rd September.<BR>
<BR>
VENUE<BR>
Manchester Conference Centre, Manchester University.<BR>
<BR>
No further details were available at the time of posting.<BR>
<BR>
(Thanks to Richard Talbot, our intrepid reporter. Save him a low <BR>
berth on the last ship out.)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:17:27 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: The TNE Storyline<BR>
<BR>
Disclaimer: This post is full of my opinions and understandings. I do not<BR>
have all the facts, and many of the facts I do have are in truth someone's<BR>
opinion of what the facts are.<BR>
<BR>
But on the subject of the TNE Storyline....<BR>
<BR>
The issue is a bit cloudy. Dave Nilsen had strong ideas about where it was<BR>
going, and would have developed the story over time in GDW Product. However,<BR>
with the fold of GDW, the rights reverted to Marc, and I don't think his<BR>
vision of where the story should go fits with Dave's. Dave is not willing to<BR>
simply hand out a list of answers to The Questions, and does not have the<BR>
opportunity to unfold the tale properly.<BR>
<BR>
I have explored various avenues regarding getting the story told, and come<BR>
up with this important consideration:<BR>
<BR>
Whatever Dave might have had in mind for the future, Marc's vision for where<BR>
the TNE storyline goes is probably different. And as Marc is once again in<BR>
the Traveller driving seat, if any "official" TNE story material appears<BR>
then there will be those who say "that's not right, it's not what Dave would<BR>
have done".<BR>
<BR>
The thing is: right now there *is* no story. No answers. Dave isn't going to<BR>
be producing NE The Game to carry on the tale (a pity. I'd buy it!). Marc<BR>
probably isn't going to be doing Recovery Era sourcebooks for T5 for a long<BR>
while... BUT: TNE is the continuation of the official Traveller storyline,<BR>
which belongs to Marc. While anything that appears may draw on Dave's work -<BR>
he may even be able to contribute, but that seems unlikely to me as I sit<BR>
here - we're going to have to accept that the TNE storyline will follow<BR>
Marc's vision of the Traveller universe. There will be those who are<BR>
unwilling to accept Marc's published Official TNE story over What They Think<BR>
Dave Might Have Done.<BR>
<BR>
And I need to get some idea about that.<BR>
<BR>
Supposing Marc were willing to develop the TNE storyline further, to open up<BR>
the Black Curtain and to let us see what the Wave is really about...? What<BR>
do you think of the idea?<BR>
<BR>
Opinions on this subject are invited to me privately or on the list.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:53:13 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Gambling skill (was RE: D20 'open' game system?)<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Mar 00, at 23:14, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Since all casino-type games favor the house, what exactly can a player<BR>
> with Traveller gambling skill do? Even if high levels of gambling skill<BR>
> give the player an in-depth understanding of the games, he will at best<BR>
> know not to play them! Or does gambling skill give the player something<BR>
> else?<BR>
<BR>
I'd say it gives them the abilty to win at games like poker, pontoon, <BR>
etc when they're played around a private table.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:53:13 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: gambling<BR>
<BR>
On 26 Mar 00, at 3:23, Jesse LaBranche wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > - Be patient.  IIRC, craps is the game with the least advantage for<BR>
> > > the<BR>
> house<BR>
> > >(in the neighborhood of 7% for the pass/don't pass bet.<BR>
> <BR>
> >   Hmm, I was just told this evening that blackjack is the safest odds...<BR>
> <BR>
> That's what I had been told and that it was 7%. The next closest was<BR>
> either craps or another card game at 5% but I don't recall which/what<BR>
> game.<BR>
<BR>
Roulette gives better odds, but only if the wheel's the Euopean style <BR>
(one "0"). IIRC this gives about 3-4% to the house, whereas the US <BR>
style wheel (a "0" and a "00") gives the house about 7%.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:53:13 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
On 26 Mar 00, at 1:58, Dalton Spence wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Uhm... actually, after re-reading the GT description of how jump drives<BR>
> work (p.120), I discovered there was already a barrier in place. It says<BR>
> "a portion (of the L-Hyd) is used as jump-drive coolant*, and a portion is<BR>
> vented into jumpspace as part of the process of creating the jump "bubble"<BR>
> which seperates and insulates the ship from jumpspace." If so, at least<BR>
> part of the fuel must be available to the ship *after* it has jumped. This<BR>
> may contradict various aspects of CT canon, but IGTU there is no lanthanum<BR>
> grid. (At least not yet.)<BR>
<BR>
Nothing in the above text requires fuel during jump. If the drive only <BR>
runs at jump initiation you only need coolant then, and the bubble <BR>
could well be set up at the begining of the jump and left alone for the <BR>
jump's duration.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:33:00 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: gambling<BR>
<BR>
> > That's what I had been told and that it was 7%. The next closest was<BR>
> > either craps or another card game at 5% but I don't recall which/what<BR>
> > game.<BR>
<BR>
> Roulette gives better odds, but only if the wheel's the Euopean style<BR>
> (one "0"). IIRC this gives about 3-4% to the house, whereas the US<BR>
> style wheel (a "0" and a "00") gives the house about 7%.<BR>
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
Hey all,<BR>
<BR>
    With my recent requests for information on Potables and Sports for<BR>
the various Alien races...  I just couldn't help but get an idea along the<BR>
lines of this post-  although I am asking for two bits of information this<BR>
time.<BR>
<BR>
Real Life Gambling games...<BR>
1. What gambling games do you see surviving into the 3I?<BR>
2. What changes do you think would be made to the games? Like I<BR>
recall Battlestar Galactica having a card game that worked a lot like<BR>
dominos.  Chess in Star Trek, B5, and Star Wars-  would these more<BR>
traditional "board games" be gambled on in the far future?  I know<BR>
that a good fortune goes into side-bets on today's chess games.<BR>
3. Would the 3I government have a "gambling commission" or other<BR>
such things to legalize/outlaw/tax gambling in various areas?<BR>
4. Does anyone have a decent list of the odds of various gambling<BR>
games?<BR>
5. Should you run an actual casino IYTU,  and players wanted to<BR>
gamble,  how would you handle the different aspects of gambling?<BR>
On this note,  how do you think that side-bets on sports would work?<BR>
<BR>
Alien Gambling...<BR>
    What types of gambling games would you see the Alien races<BR>
developing if any?  What types of things would be important for them<BR>
to gamble with-  other than credits and pink slips (or whatever color<BR>
they are in the Imperium :-)?<BR>
    How would you actually run the rules around these games should<BR>
a character choose to actually place bets on them?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for great discussions and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:39:29 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Body Armour<BR>
<BR>
> From: Michael Maley <mmaley@home.com><BR>
> Subject: Body armour<BR>
><BR>
> One of the odd things I've noticed in most traveller books is the<BR>
> overheating problems with most body armours(other than battledress).<BR>
> This has always bothered me since I assume at higher tech levels the<BR>
> overheating problems would be eliminated or at least alleviated.  In my<BR>
> campaigns I've allowed that any flex  or diplo armour of TL 9+ does not<BR>
> cause discomfort for the wear using either electrical or biochemical<BR>
> methods of heat dispersion.<BR>
><BR>
> Has anyone any thoughts on this subject.<BR>
><BR>
> darkhstarr<BR>
<BR>
You have 2 problems. The first one is entropy - heat has to go somewhere.<BR>
The second problem is IR signature in a hi-tech battlefield is very<BR>
unhealthy.<BR>
<BR>
If you dont mind radiating, then sure - use a heat pump or something to vent<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
If you do mind radiating, on account of all those IR sensors, then you have<BR>
a couple of options.<BR>
<BR>
Firstly, chill cans. Pop the can, then once it's gone toss it away and pop<BR>
another one into the slot.<BR>
<BR>
Secondly, radiate the heat in a direction you hope is safe. Down could be<BR>
good.<BR>
<BR>
Thirdly, dont produce it in the first place.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:44:18 +1000<BR>
From: "AB" <ab@rossmack.com><BR>
Subject: re: Your name in Vilani<BR>
<BR>
Remember this thread?<BR>
<BR>
I have created a Word 97 macro that runs the algorithm over word documents.<BR>
<BR>
See: http://www.rossmack.com/ab/RPG/traveller/LngVilani.asp<BR>
<BR>
(I would have posted this a fortnight ago but some problems with my ISP have<BR>
prevented me from publishing anything to my site.)<BR>
<BR>
- -AB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:09:59 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > > Nothing legal or contractual is involved. I gave my word I wouldn't tell.<BR>
> > One could argue that giving one's word makes a contract...<BR>
> > I'd certainly buy the argument.<BR>
><BR>
>And one would be wrong.  :-)<BR>
><BR>
>A contract is a legally enforceable agreement. You can't legally enforce<BR>
>someone's word.  Some would consider that better than the law.<BR>
Yup, like the former chancellor of Germany, Kohl, who took illegal <BR>
contributions to his parties funds and still refused to tell who gave those <BR>
contributions, because ha gave his word. The law says he has to tell.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:23:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain: MT revealed plotlines<BR>
<BR>
- --- david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You can't even explain why? Ouch. I would have<BR>
> thought that this was simply part<BR>
> of the "no-TNE stuff" agreement between SJG and Far<BR>
> Futures? Or even some sort<BR>
> of friendly non-disclosure argeement between<BR>
> yourself, Marc and David Nilsen?<BR>
> <BR>
> If this was true, it would at least reduce my "need<BR>
> to know" burning curiosity<BR>
> to a dull simmer...<BR>
> <BR>
> Can you at least say if Marc will EVER allow the<BR>
> "official" details to be known<BR>
> (much like DGP "spilled the beans" on some of their<BR>
> plots in the final MTJ#4<BR>
> issue)?<BR>
<BR>
Which plotlines did they solve?<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:27:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: john hamilton <johnhamilton_us@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Why Loren can't explain, why he can't explain<BR>
<BR>
- --- Rob Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> If this is about the TNE Black Curtain, then I can<BR>
> guess why... it may be because Mr. Nilsen is hoping<BR>
> to <BR>
> develop the TNE storyline further some time in the<BR>
> future.<BR>
<BR>
Then he should hurry , cause practicly there are fewer<BR>
people every month who actually care how the story<BR>
ends, since like in every media people loose interest<BR>
in a story which runs too long.<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:43:21 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
One of my biggest beefs with FFS2 is that man (or even small girl) portable<BR>
energy weapons cannot be effectively built, and I dont like the idea of<BR>
gunpowder weapons dominating the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Starting with the objective that the Striker weapons should be able to be<BR>
built under a modified FFS2, I started tweaking things until it works. And<BR>
you know what ... it works.<BR>
<BR>
One new invention - almost certainly from (drum roll with haunting flute<BR>
music) the Sayat. High Performance Accumulators.<BR>
<BR>
High Performance Accumulators<BR>
<BR>
HPAs can be used for weapons with input of up to (1/2) TL^2 kilojoules of<BR>
input energy (eg 40 kJ at TL9, 50 kJ at TL10 etc).<BR>
<BR>
Weapons with HPAs can fire 3 shots in 20 seconds, then are stuck at one shot<BR>
per 30 seconds until a cool-down period of 3 minutes without fire has taken<BR>
place. If you have a weapon with a smaller HPA than the maximum available at<BR>
that TL, then the number of shots in the initial burst is increased and the<BR>
cool-down period is decreased by the ratio of the size of the HPA to the<BR>
maximum size of an HPA at that TL (eg a TL10 weapon with 25 kJ of input can<BR>
fire 6 shots in 30 seconds, then has to have a cool-down period of 90<BR>
seconds).<BR>
<BR>
You can push HPAs beyond these limits, but they dont call it SAY-Boom for<BR>
nothing.<BR>
<BR>
TL       HPA storage capacity      Cost<BR>
<BR>
 9        6.25 kJ per kilo                Cr  500 per kilo<BR>
10     12.5  kJ per kilo                 Cr  750 per kilo<BR>
11     15.0  kJ per kilo                 Cr 1000 per kilo<BR>
12     22.5 kJ per kilo                 Cr  1250 per kilo<BR>
13     30.0 kJ per kilo                 Cr  2000 per kilo<BR>
14     37.5 kJ per kilo                 Cr  2500 per kilo<BR>
15     45.0 kJ per kilo                 Cr  3750 per kilo<BR>
<BR>
New Light Laser Focal Array rules<BR>
<BR>
Frankly, I cant understand the way the rules in FFS2 are supposed to work.<BR>
Here are Ditzie's amendments.<BR>
<BR>
Volume is done in cubic centimeters.<BR>
<BR>
A = pi * r^2<BR>
<BR>
The length of the focal array (the lasing tube) is 1 cm per kJ of input (nb<BR>
input, not output).<BR>
<BR>
Volume equals area times length.<BR>
<BR>
Light lasers mass 3g per cubic centimeter, and cost Cr 1 per cubic<BR>
centimeter.<BR>
<BR>
Remember to add a plastic stock (0.5 kg,  Cr 50).<BR>
<BR>
Range is same as FFS2.<BR>
<BR>
Revised Damage for FFS2<BR>
<BR>
These damage values are in Striker terms.<BR>
<BR>
Damage Value = (2*Sqrt(Output in Kilojoules *2 * Mod))-1, rounding up for<BR>
0.5 and up<BR>
<BR>
Mod is 1 for KEAP (CPRs and Gauss Guns), 2 for Lasers, 3 for PAWs and 8 for<BR>
Plasma or Fusion weapons<BR>
<BR>
Examples : A M16 bullet is 1800 joules of KEAP, so it's (2*Sqrt(1.8*2*1))-1<BR>
or  3<BR>
                 A 9 mm Parabellum is 500 joules of KEAP so it's<BR>
(2*Sqrt(0.5*2*1))-1 or 1<BR>
                 A 10 kJ Laser is 10 000 joules of laser so it's<BR>
(2*Sqrt(10*2*2))-1 or 12<BR>
                 A 10 kJ PAW is 10 000 joules of PAW so it's<BR>
(2*Sqrt(10*2*3))-1 or 14<BR>
                 A 10 kJ PGMP is 10 000 joules of Plasma so it's<BR>
(2*Sqrt(10*2*8))-1 or 25<BR>
<BR>
Note that these correspond to Striker values for M16s, 9mm pistols, TL9<BR>
Laser Rifles and PGMP-13s.<BR>
<BR>
For those of you wanting to convert values for other systems, in Striker a<BR>
cm of hard steel is Factor 4, then 2cm is fac 8, then 3 cm is fac 12, then<BR>
5cm is fac 18 then every doubling adds 8 factors.<BR>
<BR>
Thus our Laser Rifle will penetrate 3 cm of hard steel.<BR>
<BR>
Cloth armour (Cr 250, TL7) is fac 5, a flak jacket(Cr 100, TL7) fac 3, Ablat<BR>
(Cr 75, TL9) is fac 1/fac 6 vs lasers, reflec (Cr 1500, tl10) is fac 0/fac<BR>
10 vs lasers, Combat Environment suits (Cr1000, TL10) is fac 6, TL 11 combat<BR>
armour is Cr 20 000 and fac 8, TL12 combat armour is Cr 30 000 and fac 10,<BR>
TL13 battle dress is Cr 200 000 and fac 10, TL14 combat armour is Cr 60 000<BR>
and fac 18, and TL14 battle dress is Cr 350 000 and fac 18.<BR>
<BR>
I attribute the higher factors for personal armour than one would expect to<BR>
be due to more expensive higher-quality materials.<BR>
<BR>
Sample Weapon<BR>
<BR>
TL9 Laser Rifle<BR>
<BR>
5 cm diameter FA. 32 kJ input, 10 kJ output<BR>
<BR>
Area is pi * (2.5)^2, or 16.5 cm^2, thus volume is 528 cubic centimeters and<BR>
a length of 32 cm. Mass of the lasing tube is 1.6 kilos.<BR>
<BR>
Add a plastic stock (0.5 kg), Cooler (0.6 kg) and iron sights (0.1 kg) for a<BR>
total of 2.8 kg.<BR>
<BR>
32 kJ of input at TL9 needs 5 kilos of High Performance Accumulator, while 5<BR>
kilos of 6 minute discharge TL9 batteries puts out 5000 watts, so it's a<BR>
theoretical shot every 7 seconds (until the HPA needs to cool down). The<BR>
backpack has 60 shots in it.<BR>
<BR>
The backpack itself masses 1.5 kilos, so thats 2.8 kg for the weapon and<BR>
11.5 kilos for the backpack.<BR>
<BR>
Range is 0.05 * 33 (FUV laser) * 0.1 (Std Atmosphere), or 160 m in a<BR>
standard atmosphere (20m short of the Striker version).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:52:25 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Bolie Williams IV wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > A contract exists only when there has been an exchange.  If you<BR>
> > just promise to do something gratis, it's not a contract.  At<BR>
> > least not legally.<BR>
> <BR>
> Be careful.  Promises to do something for free CAN be legally<BR>
> enforceable, i.e., as valid as any other sort of contract.<BR>
> <BR>
> If contract law were that simple, law schools would go away.<BR>
> Maybe thats a good thing.<BR>
> <BR>
> [I can hear Glenn writing his response right now  ;-)   ]<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
On the other hand, giving one's word that one will do or not<BR>
do something ought to be respected, whether or not you construe<BR>
that to be "a making of a contract". <BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:59:52 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
Volker wrote:<BR>
> Yup, like the former chancellor of Germany, Kohl, who took illegal <BR>
> contributions to his parties funds and still refused to tell who gave those <BR>
> contributions, because ha gave his word. The law says he has to tell.<BR>
> <BR>
I suspect that the law says he must tell, or else... there being <BR>
consequences for not telling. Herr Kohl placed himself neatly <BR>
between the rock and the hard place by his promises; either he<BR>
breaks his promise, or he faces the legal consequences of not<BR>
telling. <BR>
<BR>
When one makes a promise to not divulge certain information, one may<BR>
find oneself in this dilemma. Conflicting obligations can be so much<BR>
fun.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Baron Eneri, in fealty to both the sector Duke and, for<BR>
various reasons, also to another Sector Duke, is asked by both<BR>
to assist in a conflict between the Dukes (and not as a mediator, but<BR>
a "combatant") must decide between conflicting loyalties (or elect<BR>
to sit it out). <BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:36:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> <snip><BR>
><BR>
>> <BR>
>> What you should do (if you're using _First In_) is extend the blackbody<BR>
>> temperature formula on page 75 as follows:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> B = 278 * ((fourth root of L1/square root of R1) + (fourth root of <BR>
> L2/square<BR>
>> root of R2))<BR>
>> <BR>
>> -- where L1, L2 are the luminosities of the two stars, and R1, R2 are the<BR>
>> distances from each star to the world in question.  Then take the B<BR>
>> that you get and apply it normally in the second formula for average<BR>
>> surface temperature.<BR>
><BR>
> I have got a problem with this formula. Consider the following two cases:<BR>
><BR>
> A) Two stars 1 and 2, at the same distance R=1 of the black body:<BR>
>    Giving both the same luminosity L=1, will result in <BR>
>    B = 278 * ( ( 4sqrt(1)/sqrt(1) ) + ( 4sqrt(1)/sqrt(1) ) ) = 568<BR>
>    Total energy-input:  L=2  ==>  B=568<BR>
>    Double Energy-input ==> Double temperature, which cannot be right, IMHO.<BR>
><BR>
> B) One star, with L=2 gives you<BR>
>    B = 278 * ( 4sqrt(2)/sqrt(1) ) = 278 * 1.1892 = 330,6<BR>
>    Total energy-input:  L=2  ==>  B=330,6<BR>
>    Same energy-input as above, but a definitly lower temperature.<BR>
>    This feels better, IMHO<BR>
<BR>
The problem being, of course, the fact that luminosity is<BR>
*proportional* to energy output, not *equal* to it. Also, those SQRTs<BR>
should be SQRs!<BR>
<BR>
A luminosity of 1 = 4e26 J/s. (from the luminosity of Sol as listed on<BR>
my Astronomy cheat sheet)<BR>
<BR>
So the *effective* luminosity is<BR>
<BR>
((L1*4e26)/R1^2+(L2*4e26)/R2^2)/4e26<BR>
<BR>
Which, it turns out, simplifies to :<BR>
<BR>
L1/R1^2 + L2/R2^2<BR>
<BR>
so that gives a formula of:<BR>
<BR>
B=278*((L1/R1^2)+(L2/R2^2))^(1/4)<BR>
<BR>
> IMHO, the the Blackbody-temperature for a system with multiple stars<BR>
> should be:<BR>
><BR>
> B = 278 * fourth root( summ of( L_i / (R_i)^2 ) )<BR>
><BR>
> L_i are the luminosities of the stars and R_i are the distances of the<BR>
> stars to the body.<BR>
<BR>
> For example, a system with two stars<BR>
><BR>
> B = 278 * fourth root(  L_1/(R_1)^2  + L_2/(R_2)^2  )<BR>
<BR>
Yep, that works.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:05:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 25 Mar 00, at 16:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>>>> 4.) Only a complete idiot would *totally* eliminate internal fuel<BR>
>>>>>     storage. Every starship should have at least one parsec (10%<BR>
>>>>>     volume) internal fuel so it can "limp" to the nearest Class III<BR>
>>>>>     starport after a misjump. As a result of this and point 2, TL12<BR>
>>>>>     ships using Jump 2 or greater drives are the only ones that will<BR>
>>>>>     benefit from LSJCs and drop tanks.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> I completely disagree. 10% of ship volume is very, very expensive<BR>
>>> misjump insurance. Take out insurance, and if it happens, put the crew<BR>
>>> and passengers into Emergency Low Berths, turn on the beacon, and wait.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> The odds of being found are *way* too low. If you land in a system,<BR>
>> that's one thing. If you (much more likely) land in an empty hex, it's<BR>
>> going to take 3.26 years *minimum* for your signal to reach a system (and<BR>
>> that's assuming that there's one within one hex). And the odds of it being<BR>
>> *noticed* are low, even if it *is* an inhabited system. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Lets say you have a megawatt transmitter. At one parsec, it's going to be<BR>
>> down to 84e-12 *picowatts* per square kilometer... Nobody is going to hear<BR>
>> that over background noise unless they've got a *major* radio telescope<BR>
>> aimed right at you.<BR>
><BR>
> How about if you aimed your maser at the nearest inhabited system and <BR>
> used that? It should spread enough to be useful, and might have enough <BR>
> power to do some good.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is it'll spread a *lot*. The spread is controlled by the<BR>
size of the maser "aperture". <BR>
<BR>
Anybody got figures for the diffraction spread for wavelength versus<BR>
diameter? <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:30:38 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
Deriving surface temperature has always been a major pain in the arse for me<BR>
as I am no physics student.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, I will be using Albedo and a constant called the "Thermal Ecology Index"<BR>
I borrowed from Space Opera.  The black body formula in that game doesn't<BR>
work very well though and consistantly gave me unliveable planets no matter<BR>
what they were made of or how far they were from their primaries.<BR>
<BR>
Would hydrographics affect the mean surface temperature?  Or is that figured<BR>
in from the Albedo rating?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 8:54 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 3/26/00 7:53:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>
j-man@iname.com<BR>
> writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > Could you give me a one-source black body formula for determining<BR>
surface<BR>
> >  temperature?<BR>
><BR>
> B = 278 * (fourth root of L)/(square root of R)<BR>
><BR>
> -- where B is the _blackbody_ surface temperature (i.e. the temperature<BR>
> assuming the planet is both a perfect absorber and a perfect radiator of<BR>
> heat), L is the star's luminosity in solar units, and R is the planet's<BR>
> current distance from the star in AU.  B is in kelvins.<BR>
><BR>
> To get actual average surface temperature, you need to throw in<BR>
> fudge-factors for the planet's reflectivity (albedo) and greenhouse<BR>
> effect.  Hence:<BR>
><BR>
> T = B * (fourth root of (1 - A)) * (1 + G)<BR>
><BR>
> -- where T is the average surface temperature in kelvins, B is the<BR>
> blackbody temperature as derived above, A is the planet's albedo,<BR>
> and G is a fudge factor for the greenhouse effect.  For an Earthlike<BR>
> world, A = 0.3 and G = 0.15 are reasonable.<BR>
><BR>
> Note that the above is equivalent to the procedure in LBB 6 (Scouts),<BR>
> *except* that LBB 6 forgets to take the fourth root of the (1 - A) item.<BR>
> That's one reason why it was so hard to get reasonable temperatures<BR>
> for worlds using that system -- taking the fourth root tends to reduce<BR>
> the effect of albedo considerably.  I don't know whether later sources<BR>
> like the World Builder's Handbook corrected this error or not.<BR>
><BR>
> ----------<BR>
> Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
> writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
> "For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
> set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2195<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2196<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
RE: MP3s on the list<BR>
RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: Stuff<BR>
Re: gambling<BR>
Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Sabacc (was Re: gambling)<BR>
Marc M.'s other job...<BR>
Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
Re: Stuff<BR>
Dilemmas of loyalty(was:Re: EW & Black Curtain)<BR>
Traveller 3D maps and Computers at the game table<BR>
RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
RE: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Classes in traveller (Long)<BR>
Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:33:21 -0500<BR>
From: "J-Man" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
I can't believe the topic of Drop Tanks has come up yet again...This is<BR>
utterly ludicrous.  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 7:05 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > On 25 Mar 00, at 16:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> The problem is it'll spread a *lot*. The spread is controlled by the<BR>
> size of the maser "aperture".<BR>
><BR>
> Anybody got figures for the diffraction spread for wavelength versus<BR>
> diameter?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:37:26 -0500<BR>
From: Roger Barr <RBarr@gatepetro.com><BR>
Subject: RE: MP3s on the list<BR>
<BR>
>>Well, I _could_ post an MP3...<BR>
>><grin><BR>
<BR>
>Not on the list or I despatch my fleets to destroy your homeworld.<BR>
<BR>
>I don't want to think what an MP3 would do to the Digest.<BR>
<BR>
>;-)<BR>
<BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
THAT DOES IT!!<BR>
I'm gonna quit reading this list and drinking coffee at the same time.<BR>
My company might start charging me for the keyboards...<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
Roger<BR>
<BR>
Roger Barr<BR>
TravelerGM@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:43:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
X-TEK News Release <BR>
Research Facility Beta (Vincennes)<BR>
123-1121<BR>
<BR>
X-TEK Anounces Project Python.<BR>
<BR>
In an anouncement made at the corporate research facility on Vincennes<BR>
the Commander anounced the birth of a new weapons development project.<BR>
<BR>
The new project will involve the use of animals in weapons deployment.<BR>
<BR>
The initial project invoving Sylean Swallows and fusion grenades has been<BR>
incorporated into this newer, more encompasing project.<BR>
<BR>
The subprojects to be developed are as follows.<BR>
<BR>
1. Sylean Swallows as an assault trasport system.  Each swallow to carry a<BR>
HHG-15 over huge tracts of land.<BR>
<BR>
2. 59 Tapdancing Ecuadorian Mountan Llamas mounted with FGMP-15 lead by a<BR>
"wonder" llama named "Ralph".<BR>
<BR>
3. The Majestic-12 Moose.  A Moose in specialy designed battledress.<BR>
Moose bites can be nasty...<BR>
<BR>
This project is in response to the Famille Spofulam Elephant mounted PAW<BR>
and the Gridlore Assault Penguin Commando.  <BR>
<BR>
May the project that kills the most keyboards win His Imperial Majesty's<BR>
favor.<BR>
<BR>
<END TRANSMISSION><BR>
<BR>
\  // Commander X<BR>
 \//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
T E K  Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //\  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm<BR>
//  \ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:58:57 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Stuff<BR>
<BR>
<< Settlements for lawsuits, even (heck, *especially*) out of court<BR>
 settlements *often* have a clause stating that one or both parties are<BR>
 forbbiden to discuss *anything* about the settlement. Sometimes, even<BR>
 including the fact that there *was* a settlement.<BR>
 <BR>
 So, if someone involved with all that stuff sued, and GDW settled out<BR>
 of court, it's quite possible that Loren *couldn't* mention the suit or<BR>
 the out of court settlement. And of course, that settlement would<BR>
 include not disclosing the plans for the "future" that had reverted to<BR>
 the owner. >><BR>
<BR>
No lawsuit involved. "I gave my word" is all there is to it.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:42:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: gambling<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>     With my recent requests for information on Potables and Sports for<BR>
> the various Alien races...  I just couldn't help but get an idea along the<BR>
> lines of this post-  although I am asking for two bits of information this<BR>
> time.<BR>
><BR>
> Real Life Gambling games...<BR>
> 1. What gambling games do you see surviving into the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Check out the way *Chinese* Mah Jongg is played (not the silly rules<BR>
the American MahJongg Society publishes). It's been around for a long<BR>
time, you can pick up a set cheap, it's no harder to learn than gin<BR>
rummy (which is a bad translation of mah jongg to cards), and you can<BR>
make insane bets.<BR>
<BR>
(note the below description is *vastly* simplified and ignores a lot of<BR>
details)<BR>
<BR>
A few examples, since it is played with tiles, not cards, you "shuffle<BR>
the deck by placing all the tiles on the table face down, and all 4<BR>
players slide them around until they are satisfied that they are well<BR>
mixed. Then they each start building a "wall". Each wall is two tiles<BR>
high and 18 tiles long. Once built, they are slid together to form a<BR>
square. Then dice are rolled to determine which wall, and which tile in<BR>
that wall will be the starting point for dealing. <BR>
<BR>
Standard side bets are who will get their wall finished frst, which<BR>
wall and which tile will be the start. <BR>
<BR>
Each player starts out with counters (long thin sticks with value<BR>
markings) worth 2000 points (so even "penny ante" would mean you have<BR>
$20 invested!)<BR>
<BR>
Hands are scored for points, with some combos being worth *lots* of<BR>
points. And some items in your hand not only have point values, but the<BR>
*double* the final total. If you have several such items, you get<BR>
several doublings! (I think we once worked out the maximum possible<BR>
number of doublings. It was something *obscene* like over a dozen...)<BR>
<BR>
The person who mah jongged (filled out a hand) first collects the value<BR>
of his hand from all the other players. The other players than pay each<BR>
other the *difference* in the value of their hands.<BR>
<BR>
So you can "lose" a hand, and wind up raking in more money than the<BR>
"winner"! <BR>
<BR>
If the dealer wins, he retains the deal. When the deal returns to the<BR>
first dealer, that changes the "prevailing wind" (this effects scoring<BR>
*and* paying). Once the deal *and* prevailing wind return, the game is<BR>
over. <BR>
<BR>
That means that if the dealer *never* wins, you are *committed* for at<BR>
least 16 hands. Add one hand for every hand won by a dealer. In the Far<BR>
East, you *don't* drop out of a game before the end. Ever.<BR>
<BR>
There are other lovely features of the version played in the Far East<BR>
mah jongg parlors. Things like if you forget and reach for a tile out<BR>
of turn (easy to do, if the previous player is taking his time about<BR>
making his play (basicly drawing a tile and discarding one)) you may<BR>
wind up with a knife thru your hand to remind you...<BR>
<BR>
Or take too long deciding what to discard and one of the other players<BR>
will grab a tile out of the "hidden" part of your hand and toss it as a<BR>
discard for you.<BR>
<BR>
Even from this brief bit, I'm sure you can all see many, *many* ways<BR>
for players to get in trouble with this "simple" game.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------<BR>
<BR>
As far as changes in games, consider the game Sabacc, invented by one<BR>
of the writers doing Star Wars books. It's a weird cross of several<BR>
games, notable blackjack and bacarat, using what amounts to a tarot<BR>
deck.<BR>
<BR>
The interesting bit is that the *cards* are "smart". Specifically, at<BR>
random intervals any two cards not laid on the table (ie in the undealt<BR>
part of the deck, or face up as part of the "played" cards for a hand)<BR>
will swap values.<BR>
<BR>
Such cards would *greatly* affect several games. Imagine a version of<BR>
stud poker where you *hold* your hole cards, and leave the face up<BR>
cards on the table. But at any moment one of that pair of aces you are<BR>
holding in reserve may turn into a deuce... Say, just *after* you said<BR>
"Call!" and before you could get your hand on the table. <eg><BR>
<BR>
Even if the switch isn't at such a critical moment, you know know that<BR>
*someone* has that ace and *doesn't* have that deuce anymore. If you<BR>
can figure out *who*, that'll be to your advantage. Of course, *he* is<BR>
trying to do the same thing. And if the changed card affects your<BR>
betting strategy, the other players may notice also.<BR>
<BR>
I think "smart cards" (which we will have to assume are tamper proof,<BR>
or they aren't usable) would make for interesting versions a lot of<BR>
games. <BR>
<BR>
Heck, even blackjack gets *very* different if that face down card can<BR>
swap with any of the others on the table...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 05:24:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> One of my biggest beefs with FFS2 is that man (or even small girl) portable<BR>
> energy weapons cannot be effectively built, and I dont like the idea of<BR>
> gunpowder weapons dominating the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that *any* high density energy storage device is a<BR>
potential *bomb* and you'll start to realize *why* nobody builds them.<BR>
<BR>
> HPAs can be used for weapons with input of up to (1/2) TL^2 kilojoules of<BR>
> input energy (eg 40 kJ at TL9, 50 kJ at TL10 etc).<BR>
><BR>
> Weapons with HPAs can fire 3 shots in 20 seconds, then are stuck at one shot<BR>
> per 30 seconds until a cool-down period of 3 minutes without fire has taken<BR>
> place. If you have a weapon with a smaller HPA than the maximum available at<BR>
> that TL, then the number of shots in the initial burst is increased and the<BR>
> cool-down period is decreased by the ratio of the size of the HPA to the<BR>
> maximum size of an HPA at that TL (eg a TL10 weapon with 25 kJ of input can<BR>
> fire 6 shots in 30 seconds, then has to have a cool-down period of 90<BR>
> seconds).<BR>
><BR>
> You can push HPAs beyond these limits, but they dont call it SAY-Boom for<BR>
> nothing.<BR>
><BR>
> TL       HPA storage capacity      Cost<BR>
><BR>
>  9        6.25 kJ per kilo                Cr  500 per kilo<BR>
> 10     12.5  kJ per kilo                 Cr  750 per kilo<BR>
> 11     15.0  kJ per kilo                 Cr 1000 per kilo<BR>
> 12     22.5 kJ per kilo                 Cr  1250 per kilo<BR>
> 13     30.0 kJ per kilo                 Cr  2000 per kilo<BR>
> 14     37.5 kJ per kilo                 Cr  2500 per kilo<BR>
> 15     45.0 kJ per kilo                 Cr  3750 per kilo<BR>
<BR>
Ok, not as bad as I thought. But just for reference TNT is 4200 kJ/kg. <BR>
<BR>
So the basic problem is that gunpowder (at say, 1/4 the strength of<BR>
TNT) is still a *far* more concentrated energy source.<BR>
<BR>
Also, someone need to look into variouds real world batteries. Surely<BR>
*some* of them come close?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:11:05 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
J-Man wrote:<BR>
>I can't believe the topic of Drop Tanks has come up yet again...This is<BR>
>utterly ludicrous.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Well, at the moment it's a thread about calling for help from the middle<BR>
of an empty hex.<BR>
<BR>
We've got new people on the list, though, there are certainly ones who<BR>
haven't decided yet how jump tanks will work in their TU's.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:20:20 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Sabacc (was Re: gambling)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>I think "smart cards" (which we will have to assume are tamper proof,<BR>
>or they aren't usable) would make for interesting versions a lot of<BR>
>games. <BR>
<BR>
I recall technology for cheating at Sabacc being mentioned in some of<BR>
the Star Wars novels. IIRC, a hero was winning at Sabacc and one of<BR>
the loser's friends slipped a cheater module into the hero's pocket.<BR>
The cheater module would supposedly allow the gambler to control the<BR>
card switches. The loser then accused the hero of cheating, and you can <BR>
guess what happened when the other patrons of the establishment<BR>
searched the hero and found the evidence on him.<BR>
<BR>
The existence of such cheater modules is problematic, though. They<BR>
must only work for someone actually holding cards (through skin<BR>
conductance?), otherwise anyone standing in the room could fix<BR>
a Sabacc game.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:42:40 CST6CDT<BR>
From: igor@truserve.com<BR>
Subject: Marc M.'s other job...<BR>
<BR>
<humor><BR>
Apparently Marc is beginning to dabble in biotechnology and genetics...in the <BR>
game System Shock 2 (a great game, IMHO)...there is a character named Marc <BR>
Miller (spelled correctly) who is responsible for the cybernetic and genetic <BR>
tampering of some of the creatures found on board the ship...<BR>
<BR>
Remind me to not get him mad :)<BR>
</humor><BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
(The <humor></humor> tags are for those who seem to be lacking any sense of <BR>
sarcasm or humor on this<BR>
list...)<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________<BR>
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.<BR>
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"<BR>
http://www.truserve.com        info@truserve.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:43:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword-Worlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
We have a nice llama ranch here in Maine.  You can take them out on day<BR>
hikes.  I don't think they are available for dinner dates, though.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
><BR>
> Don't llamas live in big rivers like the Amazon? And they have a beak for<BR>
> eating honey? I don't think that they live in Sweden.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:59:37 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Why not spend your holiday in Sweden this year?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > But what about the llamas ?<BR>
> <BR>
> Don't llamas live in big rivers like the Amazon? And they have a beak for<BR>
> eating honey? I don't think that they live in Sweden.<BR>
<BR>
I thought they lived in Tibet (except for the one under Dealy Plaza in<BR>
Dallas).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:06:48 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
>Damage Value = (2*Sqrt(Output in Kilojoules *2 * Mod))-1, rounding up for<BR>
>0.5 and up<BR>
<BR>
>Mod is 1 for KEAP (CPRs and Gauss Guns), 2 for Lasers, 3 for PAWs and 8 for<BR>
>Plasma or Fusion weapons<BR>
<BR>
Where's the TTL when you need it?<BR>
<BR>
What would you do for HE/HEAP weapons? (One of the biggest rivals to<BR>
FGMPs is rocket grenade launchers...)<BR>
<BR>
Would you apply these formulae to vehicular weapons? That's actually where<BR>
FFS2/FFS1 breaks down the worst relative to cannon; tank fusion weapons are<BR>
so much less effective than big MD guns that no-one in their right mind would<BR>
ever install the former. (cf TNE's "Trepida" tank, which is dominated in price<BR>
by a fusion gun that can barely penetrate its own (not very thick) front<BR>
armour.)<BR>
FFS1 errata and FFS2 tried to tweak this but failed; the main reason is that<BR>
penetration of big MD or CPR guns is linear with energy in both, while fusion<BR>
guns remain sqrt(energy.)<BR>
<BR>
One thought that did occur to me was to speed up the plasma coming out<BR>
of fusion guns. If it were moving at ~10,000 km/s, while that wouldn't<BR>
necessarily<BR>
change the damage for a given energy, it would be fast enough to hit<BR>
rapidly moving/evading grav tanks at planetary ranges - which a CPR gun<BR>
wouldn't.<BR>
A disadvantage of this is that it would (for a given energy) reduce recoil.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:25:08 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
My ignorance is showing...  Why would reducing recoil be a disadvantage?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Bruce Macintosh <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>One thought that did occur to me was to speed up the plasma coming out<BR>
>of fusion guns. If it were moving at ~10,000 km/s, while that wouldn't<BR>
>necessarily<BR>
>change the damage for a given energy, it would be fast enough to hit<BR>
>rapidly moving/evading grav tanks at planetary ranges - which a CPR gun<BR>
>wouldn't.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>A disadvantage of this is that it would (for a given energy) reduce recoil.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:31:39 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Stuff<BR>
<BR>
At 08:58 27.03.00 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>No lawsuit involved. "I gave my word" is all there is to it.<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
And that should be enough for any of us not to ask any more.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:29:41 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Dilemmas of loyalty(was:Re: EW & Black Curtain)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:59 27.03.00 -0500, Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: Baron Eneri, in fealty to both the sector Duke and, for<BR>
>various reasons, also to another Sector Duke, is asked by both<BR>
>to assist in a conflict between the Dukes (and not as a mediator, but<BR>
>a "combatant") must decide between conflicting loyalties (or elect<BR>
>to sit it out). <BR>
<BR>
He would sit it out. If he is at a minmum comparable to Kohl... ;-)<BR>
After all, it's a well-working strategy. Not very responsible, not<BR>
honorable, but effective.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:20:42 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Traveller 3D maps and Computers at the game table<BR>
<BR>
At 22:10 26.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> [snip: two-plane 3D star map]<BR>
><BR>
>> *sigh* <BR>
>> And now try to make up a jump _route_...let's say, along a line of five to<BR>
>> ten star systems.<BR>
>><BR>
>> You see?<BR>
>> :(<BR>
><BR>
>On a model, you just use colored thread for the "fixed" routes. <BR>
<BR>
True. One could summarize it as: <BR>
Astonishingly, a 3D space that is to be mapped as 3D requires a 3D map...<BR>
:-)<BR>
Either on a computer or a true model. Which is a lot of work for a<BR>
large-scale space opera setting.<BR>
<BR>
And one schould not forget that the practical size for a "real" or "hard"<BR>
model should be roughly at subsector level. Now id you want your campaign t<BR>
take place in _several_ subsectors, possibly arranged in a cube, complexity<BR>
of the task increases again, especially for making up trans-subsector jump<BR>
routes.<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>> Ooh. No, a computer at the game table is IMHO the best way to split your<BR>
>> player's attention. I wouldn't do that. Really.<BR>
><BR>
>Depends on the computer. And how it is used.<BR>
<BR>
:) <BR>
Well, I would want the computers to run a multi-user OS like Linux or NT.<BR>
Or some OS with Novell with the GM's machine as server... anyway, the<BR>
effort required to install and configure the machines is not to be taken<BR>
lightly. And remember that there are players who do not want to use a<BR>
computer... though they won't probably play Traveller, so forget that<BR>
point...:)<BR>
<BR>
I have no practical experince with computers at the game table, but I feel<BR>
it's not worth the effort...<BR>
<BR>
Any people out there who actually have experience with that?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:32:18 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Monty Python fans out here<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I thought they lived in Tibet (except for the one under Dealy Plaza in<BR>
> Dallas).<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Ogden Nash wrote a poem which clarifies the difference.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:42:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> The problem is it'll spread a *lot*. The spread is controlled by the<BR>
> size of the maser "aperture".<BR>
><BR>
> Anybody got figures for the diffraction spread for wavelength versus<BR>
> diameter?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Let lambda denote the wavelength, and w0 denote the "beam waist," the<BR>
minimum beam radius, which you can assume is the radius at the source in<BR>
this scenario. Then for Gaussian beams (like lasers and masers) propagating<BR>
along the z-axis we have:<BR>
<BR>
w(z) = w0 * sqrt(1 + z^2/z0^2)<BR>
<BR>
where z0 = pi * w0^2/lambda.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:16:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
At 10:19 PM 3/26/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Bolie Williams IV wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> A contract exists only when there has been an exchange.  If you<BR>
>> just promise to do something gratis, it's not a contract.  At<BR>
>> least not legally.<BR>
><BR>
>Be careful.  Promises to do something for free CAN be legally<BR>
>enforceable, i.e., as valid as any other sort of contract.<BR>
<BR>
Case in point: James and I did ACQ essentially for free. (We got some cool<BR>
product in exchange), but we are now required to agree to Andy's terms on<BR>
several matters. Not that this is a problem, as Andy is one Froopy Dude!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:18:44<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
At 10:28 PM 3/26/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>> of long past storms as *real* passing storms.  Picture your stereotypical<BR>
>> Maine resident discussing Nor'easters..<BR>
><BR>
>That would be No'th Eastah, my flatlander friend :-\<BR>
><BR>
>-Maine Yankee<BR>
<BR>
Ah, then you would understand where I got this idea from. Say the planet's<BR>
*name.*<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:41:53 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry wrote:<BR>
>>-Maine Yankee<BR>
><BR>
>Ah, then you would understand where I got this idea from. Say the<BR>
>planet's *name.*<BR>
<BR>
I do not drink while reading TML. This is why.<BR>
<BR>
"What planet do you hail from?"<BR>
<BR>
"Heya".<BR>
<BR>
"Here?"<BR>
<BR>
"Naw. Heya."<BR>
<BR>
<G><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:45:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Classes in traveller (Long)<BR>
<BR>
great Post. and it ran along my point exactly. There is no hierarchy here<BR>
just an order to which things came out.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:15:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
As noted, I updated my maps page; fixed a couple of errors in WTN computation<BR>
(most of which aren't relevant), and made the map actually work via jump lines,<BR>
rather than by simply comparing distances (so it actually shows the jump<BR>
routes).  Once again:<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:24:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
Jens Rydholm writes:<BR>
> Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Added to my maps page -- a map showing every main (BTN 10+ route) in<BR>
> > the Imperium, per Far Trader rules.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html for them all, or<BR>
> > http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif for the image.<BR>
> <BR>
> The map of the trade mains could easily be used as propaganda by the<BR>
> Solomani...<BR>
> <BR>
> Nice maps. I really hope you are not generating them by hand :-)<BR>
<BR>
Want to see serious solomani propaganda?  I summed the total trade running<BR>
along those routes (by computer, of course), the results are at<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/ttrade.txt<BR>
<BR>
42% of the trade of the imperium is internal to the Solomani Rim.<BR>
<BR>
Note that the actual size of the economy is lower than that -- the Rim has the<BR>
largest economy in the Imperium (followed by either Massilia or Old Expanses,<BR>
depending on how you compute it) but its only about 14%.  It's just much more<BR>
heavily linked with itself than the rest of the imperium.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2196<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2197</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2197<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Developing A 3D Universe Campaign (long)<BR>
Re: Developing A 3D Universe Campaign (long)<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Traveller Integrated Timeline Update!<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
client states in Deneb<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
Landgrab 2000 - Cipango<BR>
TML Landgrab: Collace<BR>
Re Re Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:39:25 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Developing A 3D Universe Campaign (long)<BR>
<BR>
Fellow Sophonts,<BR>
<BR>
This weekend, I had some thoughts on developing a 3D Universe <BR>
campaign for use with Traveller rules, and wanted to run the <BR>
development concepts by potentially interested parties to see what <BR>
their thoughts were on the subject. These thoughts I've organized <BR>
into stages of campaign development, for some sense of an orderly <BR>
approach.<BR>
<BR>
Stage I: Acquire a list of the near-star catalogue in a database <BR>
format, preferably with systems already marked as to double and <BR>
triple star systems. If I recall, someone on the TML has already done <BR>
work similar to this.<BR>
<BR>
Stage 2: Create a program that will generate basic star system <BR>
information using First In rules, up to and including population <BR>
scores. Beyond that, wait on further development of the world stats. <BR>
Thus, the basics of the system notes for the campaign are set.<BR>
<BR>
The end result of Stage 2 will include an effective Native Ecosphere <BR>
statistic, which can be used to determine the location of the <BR>
homeworld for the various alien races that will be present within the <BR>
campaign milieu.<BR>
<BR>
If someone wanted to do something like this, and wanted to use <BR>
another method of determining the presence of native races, there are <BR>
several methods available: the Alternative Generation Method from <BR>
Galactic 2.4, the use of the World Census presence of minor races <BR>
roll (not found in WBH,) etc.<BR>
<BR>
If Terra/Sol does not reflect itself as the homeworld for a race,<BR>
make those corrections in the database. <BR>
<BR>
Stage 3: Generate complete stats for the homeworlds, continuing with <BR>
First In rules. Translate the stats into a CT/MT compatible UWP, <BR>
including TTL instead of GTL, as it goes through the generation <BR>
process. (I find UWPs easier to use than the GT paragraph style, <BR>
hence my translation here.)<BR>
<BR>
Adjust the stats of Terra/Sol to properly reflect the desired gaming <BR>
milieu.<BR>
<BR>
Using the fully developed world stats, identify the homeworlds of <BR>
major races by searching the results set for worlds with sufficient <BR>
TL to establish FTL travel to the stars.<BR>
<BR>
Stage 4: Create a program that identifies the Core Worlds of each <BR>
stellar polity of TTL 10+, using two times maximum jump range as the <BR>
determining factor. (The assumption is that TTL 9 worlds have not had <BR>
jump drive for a period of time sufficient to have Core Worlds beyond <BR>
its own native homeworld. This is my assumption, of course, and may <BR>
be iinvalid for other TUs, but not for the one I would design using <BR>
this method.)<BR>
<BR>
Then, the program identifies the Frontier Worlds for each polity, <BR>
checking in one Jump-1 increment from TTL 9-10 worlds, one <BR>
Jump-2 increment from TTL 11-14 worlds, and one Jump-3 increment from <BR>
TTL 15+ worlds.<BR>
<BR>
For each world within range, check for presence of other aliens<BR>
already in the system, and identify the star system in a specially<BR>
created report or database of potential contact areas between stellar<BR>
polities. Later, the Referee can go back and decide where the contact<BR>
is benign or malevalent, depending on the nature of the races<BR>
involved.<BR>
<BR>
Then, if the world is not in conflict and no native non-spacefaring <BR>
race is present, the program subtracts two from the population <BR>
generated for each jump increment from the Core Worlds, as per the <BR>
sidebar in First In. If the world is still inhabited, change the <BR>
allegiance code to the stallar polity in question. If the world is <BR>
not inhabited, change the allegiance code to either <BR>
Surveyed/Partially Surveyed (for Population scores 0 to -2) or <BR>
Non-aligned/Unexplored (for Population scores of -3 or less,) again <BR>
as per the aforementioned side bar in First In.<BR>
<BR>
Continue through four increments of jump steps from each set of Core <BR>
Worlds, then run through the database and change all untouched world <BR>
populations, as well as population scores below zero, without native <BR>
races present to zero. The allegiance codes for all untouched worlds <BR>
without a native population is set to Unexplored.<BR>
<BR>
By the end of this step, all world allegiance codes have been set, <BR>
the population has been modified based on how far they are from the <BR>
central state and/or the presence of a native race, and conflict <BR>
areas between polities have been identified.<BR>
<BR>
Stage 5: Generate complete world details for specific worlds of<BR>
interest, or, if the data doesn't take up too much room on the <BR>
storage media, do it for everything. :)<BR>
<BR>
Okay, this is the pipe dream for developing a complete 3D universe <BR>
based on near-star data. Suspension of disbelief will be necessary, <BR>
obviously, since the stars haven't moved since the date of the <BR>
catalog. That kind of thing. But I thought I'd share my thoughts with <BR>
everyone, to see what kind of input I might receive.<BR>
<BR>
I have no idea whether I'll actually ever do this, but who knows?<BR>
Someone else might be inspired by the idea...<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 1+3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:58:09 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Developing A 3D Universe Campaign (long)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:39 27.03.00 -0600, Jason Kemp wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>Stage I: Acquire a list of the near-star catalogue in a database <BR>
>format, preferably with systems already marked as to double and <BR>
>triple star systems. If I recall, someone on the TML has already done <BR>
>work similar to this.<BR>
<BR>
Not only on the TML. See<BR>
<BR>
http://members.nova.org/~sol<BR>
<BR>
for a free download of the Chview program for personal use. Along with the<BR>
program you can download quite accurate star maps of the surrounding area. <BR>
(Up to 250 LY, IIRC)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:13:00 -0600<BR>
From: Bill Dunn <bdunn@epicsystems.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Wow. I love the maps. I do have one question though. Given  this form of<BR>
analysis, do the UWP stats generated by GDW jive with the historical<BR>
narrative? Since the Vilani main is so large and makes up such an old,<BR>
well-developed core (including having large areas that retained jump during<BR>
the long night), why does it lag so far behind the solomani region? After<BR>
all, the Vilani are supposed to be so economically-minded. Why does the<BR>
Imperial Core compare so unfavorably to the Solomani Rim? Were the sectors<BR>
generated using different methods that favored the UWP stats for the<BR>
Solomani Rim and surroundings? Or are we just seeing a logical<BR>
disconnection?<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, food for thought.<BR>
<BR>
Bill Dunn<BR>
bdunn@epicsystems.com<BR>
<BR>
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like<BR>
to pee a lot."   --Capital Brewery, Middleton, WI<BR>
- -----------<BR>
Original Message:<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:15:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
As noted, I updated my maps page; fixed a couple of errors in WTN<BR>
computation<BR>
(most of which aren't relevant), and made the map actually work via jump<BR>
lines,<BR>
rather than by simply comparing distances (so it actually shows the jump<BR>
routes).  Once again:<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:10:05 +0200<BR>
From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
At 09:15 27.03.00 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>As noted, I updated my maps page; fixed a couple of errors in WTN computation<BR>
>(most of which aren't relevant), and made the map actually work via jump<BR>
lines,<BR>
>rather than by simply comparing distances (so it actually shows the jump<BR>
>routes).  Once again:<BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html<BR>
<BR>
Damn cool!<BR>
<BR>
Say: Directory browsing is allowed at that site. Is this intentional? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had<BR>
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had<BR>
to do this for almost 300 years by now."<BR>
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp<BR>
;-) ingo heinscher <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:20:19 -0600<BR>
From: Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller Integrated Timeline Update!<BR>
<BR>
Checkout my website at http://www.prairienet.org/~dmckinne/trav.html.<BR>
<BR>
The Traveller Integrated Timeline has been updated from prehistory<BR>
through 120 Imperial.  This information is in RTF files, complete<BR>
with references to the Traveller source material.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
DonM.<BR>
- --<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
= Donald E. McKinney, ConfigMgt 3x Team Lead       dmckinne@amdocs.com =<BR>
= Amdocs Ltd., 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL            (217) 351-8250 =<BR>
= Winter War 28 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 2-4, 2001 =<BR>
= winterwar@prairienet.org        http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:26:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Ingo Heinscher writes:<BR>
> At 09:15 27.03.00 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> >As noted, I updated my maps page; fixed a couple of errors in WTN<BR>
> >computation (most of which aren't relevant), and made the map actually<BR>
> >work via jump <BR>
> lines,<BR>
> >rather than by simply comparing distances (so it actually shows the jump<BR>
> >routes).  Once again:<BR>
> >http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html<BR>
> <BR>
> Damn cool!<BR>
> <BR>
> Say: Directory browsing is allowed at that site. Is this intentional? <BR>
<BR>
It's not my machine ;).  As for the specific pages, I didn't bother to create<BR>
an index.html,so yes, you can see the directory structure.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:58:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Bill Dunn writes:<BR>
> Wow. I love the maps. I do have one question though. Given  this form of<BR>
> analysis, do the UWP stats generated by GDW jive with the historical<BR>
> narrative? Since the Vilani main is so large and makes up such an old,<BR>
> well-developed core (including having large areas that retained jump during<BR>
> the long night), why does it lag so far behind the solomani region? After<BR>
> all, the Vilani are supposed to be so economically-minded. Why does the<BR>
> Imperial Core compare so unfavorably to the Solomani Rim? Were the sectors<BR>
> generated using different methods that favored the UWP stats for the<BR>
> Solomani Rim and surroundings? Or are we just seeing a logical<BR>
> disconnection?<BR>
<BR>
The sector generation methods were different (note that the core areas have<BR>
TL-G worlds, which are not present on the Rim).  Note that the trade densities<BR>
do not entirely reflect size of economy -- the Rim has a big economy, but its<BR>
not nearly as large a fraction of the total as its trade is a fraction of <BR>
the total.<BR>
<BR>
Still, the evidence is that the solomani are more trade-inclined than the vilani.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:58:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Bill Dunn writes:<BR>
> Wow. I love the maps. I do have one question though. Given  this form of<BR>
> analysis, do the UWP stats generated by GDW jive with the historical<BR>
> narrative? Since the Vilani main is so large and makes up such an old,<BR>
> well-developed core (including having large areas that retained jump during<BR>
> the long night), why does it lag so far behind the solomani region? After<BR>
> all, the Vilani are supposed to be so economically-minded. Why does the<BR>
> Imperial Core compare so unfavorably to the Solomani Rim? Were the sectors<BR>
> generated using different methods that favored the UWP stats for the<BR>
> Solomani Rim and surroundings? Or are we just seeing a logical<BR>
> disconnection?<BR>
<BR>
The sector generation methods were different (note that the core areas have<BR>
TL-G worlds, which are not present on the Rim).  Note that the trade densities<BR>
do not entirely reflect size of economy -- the Rim has a big economy, but its<BR>
not nearly as large a fraction of the total as its trade is a fraction of <BR>
the total.<BR>
<BR>
Still, the evidence is that the solomani are more trade-inclined than the vilani.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:59:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/27/00 1:23 AM, Jesse LaBranche<BR>
Vanquer@email.msn.com issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Is it just me or does it seem that people really do like to argue?<BR>
<BR>
Debate. The proper word is debate. And yes we do. ;)<BR>
<BR>
These debates on RPG evolution have been very interesting, if they are<BR>
driving Trav folks nuts, we could move it to A Gamer's Life(very quiet list,<BR>
I've been thinking about stirring the kettle over there when I find some<BR>
time). I am still working on a Storyteller style rule set for Traveller, and<BR>
have found this thread quite inspiring.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:26:02 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 3/27/00 6:11 AM, Walter Smith SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU<BR>
issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> We've got new people on the list, though, there are certainly ones who<BR>
> haven't decided yet how jump tanks will work in their TU's.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, and then somebody mentioned droptanks that went in jump with you to<BR>
provide fuel after jump-exit. I had never thought of that.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:16:42 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
There was a trilogy of books "The Wooden Spaceships", "Ragged<BR>
Astronauts" and "Fugitive Worlds" by Bob Shaw. Good read, but not<BR>
really much use for Traveller - except at binary planets.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Josh W.<BR>
> Spencer<BR>
> Sent: 27 March 2000 02:20<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nah! The fences around starship salvage yards should be a<BR>
> eclectic mixture of<BR>
> > plywood, plastic panels, old rusted side panels from<BR>
> crashed air/rafts and any<BR>
> > other salvaged junk the owner doesn't think he can sell,<BR>
> all topped with<BR>
> > barbed wire. And don't forget the required "junk yard dogs!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Say, Bruce, is Ricardo ever going to go play with the "crokers" at<BR>
> > Pete's-U-Pull-It salvage yard?  Maybe after he gets a<BR>
> snout full of beersies<BR>
> > in Startown? <g><BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't there a science fiction milieu based on WOODEN starships?<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)<BR>
> VILANI ALIAS: Iashir Rekiinikimas Uiagam<BR>
> Ypsilanti, Michigan, North America, Terra<BR>
> Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:24:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: client states in Deneb<BR>
<BR>
There's some imperial client worlds in Deneb centered about Atadl.  What's<BR>
the reason for them being independent?  They lie across the best trade route<BR>
from the Marches to Core.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:23:59 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/27/00 4:31:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, paradin@gmx.de <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> IMHO, the the Blackbody-temperature for a system with multiple stars<BR>
>  should be:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  B = 278 * fourth root( summ of( L_i / (R_i)^2 ) )<BR>
>  <BR>
>  L_i are the luminosities of the stars and R_i are the distances of the<BR>
>  stars to the body.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  For example, a system with two stars<BR>
>  <BR>
>  B = 278 * fourth root(  L_1/(R_1)^2  + L_2/(R_2)^2  )<BR>
>  <BR>
>  On the other side, I could be wrong, for it's early in the morning <BR>
>  (for me, personally) and I'm mentally still in the week-end; so I'm <BR>
>  (mostly) literally not up to date ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
No, actually I think you're correct.  Temperature is proportional<BR>
to the fourth root of energy flux, and the (L/R^2) item is proportional<BR>
to energy flux.  Thus you need to add the (L/R^2) items together<BR>
and *then* take the fourth root.  My mistake.  Shows what happens<BR>
when you post on the spur of the moment without double-checking :-).<BR>
<BR>
At some point I'll rederive this from the Stefan-Botzmann law just to<BR>
be sure, but I'm pretty sure I'll end up in agreement.  In terms of my<BR>
earlier post:<BR>
<BR>
B = 278 * fourth root((L1/(R1 squared)) + (L2/(R2 squared)))<BR>
<BR>
- -- where L1, L2 are the luminosities of the two stars, and R1, R2 are the<BR>
distances from each star to the world in question.  Then take the B<BR>
that you get and apply it normally in the formula for average surface<BR>
temperature.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:26:37 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Landgrab: Notes on building Heya<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/27/00 8:24:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, j-man@iname.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Deriving surface temperature has always been a major pain in the arse for me<BR>
>  as I am no physics student.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Ok, I will be using Albedo and a constant called the "Thermal Ecology <BR>
Index"<BR>
>  I borrowed from Space Opera.  The black body formula in that game doesn't<BR>
>  work very well though and consistantly gave me unliveable planets no matter<BR>
>  what they were made of or how far they were from their primaries.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Would hydrographics affect the mean surface temperature?  Or is that <BR>
figured<BR>
>  in from the Albedo rating?<BR>
<BR>
More surface water, more ice and clouds -- hence hydrographics affect<BR>
the planet's albedo.  (Technically, water vapor in the air is a greenhouse<BR>
gas, and so a moist atmosphere will have a higher fudge factor for<BR>
greenhouse effect.  We usually just assume that an Earthlike atmosphere<BR>
will have a roughly Earthlike greenhouse effect and leave it at that.)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:38:44 +0200<BR>
From: P-O Bergstedt <zho@berka.com><BR>
Subject: Landgrab 2000 - Cipango<BR>
<BR>
I just had to grab a world with a Zhodani base...<BR>
<BR>
Cipango (Chronor 0705) looks nice. (A886865-C Z Rich G)<BR>
<BR>
Former Imperial subsector capital.<BR>
Taken by the Zhos in the second frontier war. (615 to 620)<BR>
Now ruled from Cronor.<BR>
<BR>
  _____         _____   P-O Bergstedt<BR>
 /     \       /     \  Stockholm/SWEDEN<BR>
/ * A o \_____/       \_____<BR>
\   @   /     \       / Visit the Zhodani Base:<BR>
 \BERKA/       \_____/  http://zho.berka.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:15:16 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab: Collace<BR>
<BR>
(Bloo picked this world up, but it's in the subsector where I want to<BR>
play, so I'll talk about it anyway. <G>)<BR>
<BR>
I was looking for a planet of my own, browsing through my copy of <BR>
Galactic, when I saw that the tiny port of Binges (0805 District 268)<BR>
was described as having put itself at risk of Imperial annexation<BR>
by opening it's port to fleets from Collace during the Fifth Frontier War.<BR>
The byline is Rob Dean, so this must be from the famous Dean Files.<BR>
If this is accurate, then Collace was a belligerent during the FFW,<BR>
against the Imperium...and considering how far away the nearest<BR>
Zho or Sword World planets are, it was alone on this front while<BR>
doing so.<BR>
<BR>
Collace is listed as a Client State in Galactic, and I don't have my<BR>
copy of the Spinward Marches supplement with me. Did Collace<BR>
(tech level D, population 1 billion) ally itself with the Zhodani and/or<BR>
the Sword Worlds during the Fifth Frontier War? If so, who is it<BR>
a client state of?<BR>
<BR>
I'm especially wondering if it's client state status changed after the<BR>
FFW. Did it move from the Zho sphere of influence to the Imperial?<BR>
Was it independent, but allied with the Sword Worlds, and threw<BR>
in on it's own to build a mini-empire while the Imperium had other<BR>
things on it's mind, only to get slapped down and everything but<BR>
annexed by an Imperial force at the close of the conflict?<BR>
<BR>
It is the biggest world in District 268, but it would still take a lot of<BR>
gumption to go after the Imperium with your nearest allies so far away.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:09:24 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Re Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
><BR>
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Nah! The fences around starship salvage yards should be a eclectic<BR>
>>mixture of<BR>
>> plywood, plastic panels, old rusted side panels from crashed air/rafts<BR>
>>and any<BR>
>> other salvaged junk the owner doesn't think he can sell, all topped with<BR>
>> barbed wire. And don't forget the required "junk yard dogs!"<BR>
>><BR>
>> Say, Bruce, is Ricardo ever going to go play with the "crokers" at<BR>
>> Pete's-U-Pull-It salvage yard?  Maybe after he gets a snout full of beersies<BR>
>> in Startown? <g><BR>
><BR>
>Wasn't there a science fiction milieu based on WOODEN starships?<BR>
<BR>
At least two: Spelljammer and Sp. 1889....<BR>
<GD&RF><BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:27:58 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
><BR>
>> point 1: SFB is NOT roleplaying. PrimeDirective is, is set in the smae<BR>
>> univers but is mechanically incompatable, and is template based. I love<BR>
>It.<BR>
>> I've Run It. Repeatedly. If Traveller is Class Based, so is PD.<BR>
><BR>
>Granted. SFB and Car Wars were actually only inserted to give a feel for<BR>
>point-based as opposed to skills-based games since very few RPGs are<BR>
>actually point-based.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse, I think you need to be more careful in your choices of wording here.<BR>
I included Car Wars as a roleplaying game. It does do roleplaying. SFB<BR>
Proper is nothing even related to roleplaying as it is now understood.<BR>
Those who operate under the assumptions of say, 1977, might consider it<BR>
roleplaying, but....<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> I see about 6 generations of games:<BR>
><snip><BR>
><BR>
>    Yes, I stuck with "basic" break-downs, not wanting to go into the great<BR>
>depths of various generations, hybrids of the three basic systems, and<BR>
>all the other jazz- but that was an interesting take on the generations.<BR>
><BR>
>> Explaning this "hierarchy": I maintained this hierarchy based upon when<BR>
>> these styles of games became popular, based upon local players, WWIV-net<BR>
>> groups, Magazine support, Games stores and used book stores in Oregon and<BR>
>> Alaska.<BR>
><BR>
>    I'm not sure about Oregon, but I can say that attempts to base the<BR>
>hierarchy<BR>
>in Alaska will put you a good year or two behind- At least in the Anchorage<BR>
>area<BR>
>unless a lot has changed there in the last two years :-)<BR>
<BR>
I think you've a very different experience with Anchorage. I've lived here<BR>
28 years, and been on the nets for at least 15 of them. What people are<BR>
playing in Anchorage tends to match what other connected types are playing<BR>
WITHIN MONTHS. Since 1985, Bosco's Comics and Games has always had the<BR>
latest and greatest. If you were in Anchorage, and DIDN'T deal with<BR>
Bosco's, you were not a real gamer.<BR>
<BR>
JFR: I picked up Vampire within weeks of release. Same with 2300. Same with<BR>
2nd Ed AD&D. I've never had a problem finding new games in anchorage. Only<BR>
supplements have been a problem. When CP2020 was all the rage on the WWIV<BR>
nets, it was the same up here. And it was on shelves here the same week as<BR>
oregon, and florida. (I happened to take a trip and ask about it in both<BR>
oregon and florida, the week is hit shelves.)<BR>
<BR>
><snipped notes on TNE for the sake of brevity><BR>
>> William F. Hostman<BR>
><BR>
>    My points on Traveller were also in regard to MT and CT, because<BR>
>of a lack of general knowledge of T4, T: NE, GT, and T5 although from<BR>
>everything I've heard about T4 it sounds like it's close enough to match<BR>
>the bill as well.<BR>
<BR>
TNE and CE are very different in not only mechanics, but undelying<BR>
assumptions of how people learn, how skills relate to attributes, how the<BR>
universe works...<BR>
<BR>
>    Anyway, has anyone noticed how one thread with a relatively harmless<BR>
>comment in relation to explaining what a person is trying to say will lead<BR>
>to several arguments/discussions nowhere near related to the original?<BR>
<BR>
This list is nothing. You should been on WWIV-net in the 80's. ;)<BR>
<BR>
>    Is it just me or does it seem that people really do like to argue? (Not<BR>
>targetted at you William- don't take offense :-)<BR>
<BR>
None taken, but I do love to argue. Then again, I use a more technical<BR>
definition of Argue, too. To argue is to present opinions and facts in<BR>
order to sway the opinions of others.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis Vilani: uilamaanamti sirohbrankilin<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:37:54 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Mar 00, at 7:06, Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Damage Value = (2*Sqrt(Output in Kilojoules *2 * Mod))-1, rounding up for<BR>
> >0.5 and up<BR>
> <BR>
> >Mod is 1 for KEAP (CPRs and Gauss Guns), 2 for Lasers, 3 for PAWs and 8<BR>
> >for Plasma or Fusion weapons<BR>
> <BR>
> Where's the TTL when you need it?<BR>
> <BR>
> What would you do for HE/HEAP weapons? (One of the biggest rivals to<BR>
> FGMPs is rocket grenade launchers...)<BR>
> <BR>
> Would you apply these formulae to vehicular weapons? That's actually where<BR>
> FFS2/FFS1 breaks down the worst relative to cannon; tank fusion weapons<BR>
> are so much less effective than big MD guns that no-one in their right<BR>
> mind would ever install the former. (cf TNE's "Trepida" tank, which is<BR>
> dominated in price by a fusion gun that can barely penetrate its own (not<BR>
> very thick) front armour.) FFS1 errata and FFS2 tried to tweak this but<BR>
> failed; the main reason is that penetration of big MD or CPR guns is<BR>
> linear with energy in both, while fusion guns remain sqrt(energy.)<BR>
<BR>
My answer was to tweak the KEAP penetration values as well, to make <BR>
them also proportional to the square root of ME. This leaves only <BR>
lasers with linear penetration values.<BR>
<BR>
Here's my revised KEAP table (for FFS1):<BR>
<BR>
ME(MJ) PV<BR>
12+    ME^(1/2)x14 <BR>
<12    ME^(1/2)x15 (max 48)<BR>
<9     ME^(1/2)x16 (max 45)<BR>
<7     ME^(1/2)x17.5 (max 43)<BR>
<5     ME^(1/2)x18 (max 35)<BR>
<1.5   ME^(1/2)x10 (max 12)<BR>
<1     MEx12 (max 10)<BR>
<0.5   MEx16 (max 6)<BR>
<0.3   MEx22 (max 5)<BR>
<BR>
You could probably get similar results with less alterations by making <BR>
only the highest grade follow a half power progression.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:06:27 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
At 12:22 -0500 27/3/00, Penguin Boy wrote:<BR>
> >Be careful.  Promises to do something for free CAN be legally<BR>
> >enforceable, i.e., as valid as any other sort of contract.<BR>
><BR>
>Case in point: James and I did ACQ essentially for free. (We got some cool<BR>
>product in exchange), but we are now required to agree to Andy's terms on<BR>
>several matters. Not that this is a problem, as Andy is one Froopy Dude!<BR>
<BR>
Err, can you translate that from the American to English?<BR>
<BR>
Dom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2197<BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2198<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
RE: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: client states in Deneb<BR>
wooden starships was RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
RE: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Classification of RPGs<BR>
Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
RE: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab: Collace<BR>
Another map update<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:50:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Mar 00, at 10:58, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Bill Dunn writes:<BR>
> > Wow. I love the maps. I do have one question though. Given  this form of<BR>
> > analysis, do the UWP stats generated by GDW jive with the historical<BR>
> > narrative? Since the Vilani main is so large and makes up such an old,<BR>
> > well-developed core (including having large areas that retained jump<BR>
> > during the long night), why does it lag so far behind the solomani<BR>
> > region? After all, the Vilani are supposed to be so economically-minded.<BR>
> > Why does the Imperial Core compare so unfavorably to the Solomani Rim?<BR>
> > Were the sectors generated using different methods that favored the UWP<BR>
> > stats for the Solomani Rim and surroundings? Or are we just seeing a<BR>
> > logical disconnection?<BR>
> <BR>
> The sector generation methods were different (note that the core areas<BR>
> have TL-G worlds, which are not present on the Rim).  Note that the trade<BR>
> densities do not entirely reflect size of economy -- the Rim has a big<BR>
> economy, but its not nearly as large a fraction of the total as its trade<BR>
> is a fraction of the total.<BR>
> <BR>
> Still, the evidence is that the solomani are more trade-inclined than the<BR>
> vilani.<BR>
<BR>
Just a question. I missed where you got the UWPs from, could you plase <BR>
tell me?<BR>
<BR>
I'm also wondering what non-imperial state causes that lump of red in <BR>
the lower right of the Deneb sector. And isn't it interesting that the <BR>
3I's coreward border "rises" at each sector boundary? Having never put <BR>
together a political of the whole Imperium before I've never noticed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:07:08 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Looks like you're missing systems from Reft and Trojan Reach, at least if<BR>
you're trying to depict the pre-rebellion Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:15 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
As noted, I updated my maps page; fixed a couple of errors in WTN<BR>
computation<BR>
(most of which aren't relevant), and made the map actually work via jump<BR>
lines,<BR>
rather than by simply comparing distances (so it actually shows the jump<BR>
routes).  Once again:<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:20:05 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
At 10:53 PM +1200 3/27/00, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
>Nothing in the above text requires fuel during jump. If the drive only<BR>
>runs at jump initiation you only need coolant then, and the bubble<BR>
>could well be set up at the begining of the jump and left alone for the<BR>
>jump's duration.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The main problem that jump bubbles have with drop tanks is that<BR>
you have to invoke at least the formation of some entrance to<BR>
jump space before the tanks are jetissoned.  Then you have to<BR>
get the reader to accept that for some reason the 100 diam<BR>
limit is crucial, but not so crucial that you can't safely<BR>
generate the entrance ot jump space.  That is counter<BR>
intuitive.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:22:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma writes:<BR>
> Looks like you're missing systems from Reft and Trojan Reach, at least if<BR>
> you're trying to depict the pre-rebellion Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Could be.  I was working from post-rebellion files and backdating them.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone has a list of pre-rebellion sectors, I could make better maps. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:22:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Just a question. I missed where you got the UWPs from, could you plase <BR>
> tell me?<BR>
<BR>
The Core archives at http://members.nova.org/~sol/core/astrogation.htm at<BR>
the moment (I originally was going from Missouri archives.  There are not<BR>
very many differences however).<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm also wondering what non-imperial state causes that lump of red in <BR>
> the lower right of the Deneb sector. And isn't it interesting that the <BR>
The lump of red is a bunch of unaligned worlds, a couple of client stats,<BR>
and the Dzarrgh Federate.  However, this is 1120 data and that area might<BR>
be properly Imperial (I had to go through the files already and transform<BR>
a lot of alliegance codes into Im, because many of them are shattered imperium<BR>
or autonomous zones).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:22:12 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
At 11:26 AM -0800 3/27/00, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 3/27/00 6:11 AM, Walter Smith SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU<BR>
>issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
>  > We've got new people on the list, though, there are certainly ones who<BR>
>  > haven't decided yet how jump tanks will work in their TU's.<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, and then somebody mentioned droptanks that went in jump with you to<BR>
>provide fuel after jump-exit. I had never thought of that.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tanks that you take with you (and add to your displacement for<BR>
that jump) aren't much of a problem.  It has been suggested that<BR>
these are call "demountable" tanks....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:27:17 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: client states in Deneb<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> There's some imperial client worlds in Deneb centered about Atadl.  What's<BR>
> the reason for them being independent?  They lie across the best trade route<BR>
> from the Marches to Core.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah.  The route map is using MT-era information for Deneb from after <BR>
Corridor was overrun and those worlds seceded.  Other glitches I notice <BR>
immediately:<BR>
<BR>
  * The links on the other side of Corridor from Vland are messed up; I<BR>
    assume same reason.<BR>
  * Trojan Reach data shows MT allegiances; I may have a version of the<BR>
    file I modified to show CT allegiances somewhere.  This would add <BR>
    the routes to Tobia.<BR>
  * Lishun shows MT incursions by Vargr; I do have the first draft CT<BR>
    file around with pre-Rebellion allegiances and bases.<BR>
  * The "Sy" Sylean Home Worlds owned by the Emperor weren't included.<BR>
  * There's a mysterious black spot in Dagudashaag M that isn't really<BR>
    there.<BR>
  * The light route presence in Zarushagar and Daibei are probably due<BR>
    to UWP glitches in the files; both sectors are rough drafts.  I <BR>
    think Diaspora also may suffer that problem.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:30:53 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: wooden starships was RE: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 16:44 -0500 27/3/00, "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>There was a trilogy of books "The Wooden Spaceships", "Ragged<BR>
>Astronauts" and "Fugitive Worlds" by Bob Shaw. Good read, but not<BR>
>really much use for Traveller - except at binary planets.<BR>
<BR>
Do you mean Space 1889 - GDW's Victorian's in Space Game?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:42:55 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>>Not that this is a problem, as Andy is one Froopy Dude!<BR>
> <BR>
> Err, can you translate that from the American to English?<BR>
> <BR>
> Dom ;-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Actually, (if my babelfish isn't lying to me again) that is a typo and<BR>
should read 'Andy is one hoopy dude' 'Hoopy' as in 'Great, With it, all<BR>
around cool guy to have around who always has his towel, as in "Dig that<BR>
Zaphod Beeblebrox, now THAT is one hoopy dude!"'<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:41:43 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
I was working on one, but I haven't had much time lately.  I was going to do<BR>
Trojan Reach and Reft sector allegiances based on the map of the 3I on DGP's<BR>
MT GameMaster screen (which shows star positions).  <BR>
<BR>
What program did you use to create these maps?  They rock.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 3:22 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Cc: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jason Postma writes:<BR>
> Looks like you're missing systems from Reft and Trojan Reach, at least if<BR>
> you're trying to depict the pre-rebellion Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Could be.  I was working from post-rebellion files and backdating them.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone has a list of pre-rebellion sectors, I could make better maps. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:43:16 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: Classification of RPGs<BR>
<BR>
How I classify RPGs:<BR>
<BR>
Character Creation:<BR>
Class System: Characters are defined primarily by thier class/occupation.<BR>
Class/Skill System: Characters are defined by their skills, but use a<BR>
class/occupation/clan affiliation/template to place restrictions on skill<BR>
availability.<BR>
Skill System: Characters are defined by skills.<BR>
Random: Attributes and/or skills defined with die rolls<BR>
Point: Attributes and/or skills governed by a point system<BR>
<BR>
Examples (only of games I've played):<BR>
<BR>
Random Class System: AD&D, D&D<BR>
Point Class System: none come to mind<BR>
Random Class/Skill System: Call of Cthulhu, Traveller<BR>
Point Class/Skill System: Earthdawn, Werewolf, Shadowrun<BR>
Random Skill System: again, I don't know of any<BR>
Point Skill System: GURPS<BR>
<BR>
Character Advancement:<BR>
Same classifications.<BR>
<BR>
Examples:<BR>
Random Class System: 1st ed AD&D (random hit points, all other factors<BR>
increase only with class)<BR>
Point Class System: 2nd ed AD&D (proficiencies are player-choice),<BR>
Earthdawn, Werewolf<BR>
Random Skill System: Call of Cthulhu (whether a skill improves or not is<BR>
random)<BR>
Point Skill System: Traveller, GURPS, Shadowrun<BR>
<BR>
You can't rate a system as Class or Skill just by it's character creation<BR>
rules - you have to look at character advancement too.  And point systems<BR>
are not irrecovably tied to whether a system is class or skill based.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:44:49 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:06:48 -0800<BR>
> From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Making energy weapons work in FFS2<BR>
><BR>
> >Damage Value = (2*Sqrt(Output in Kilojoules *2 * Mod))-1, rounding up for<BR>
> >0.5 and up<BR>
><BR>
> >Mod is 1 for KEAP (CPRs and Gauss Guns), 2 for Lasers, 3 for PAWs and 8<BR>
for<BR>
> >Plasma or Fusion weapons<BR>
><BR>
> Where's the TTL when you need it?<BR>
><BR>
> What would you do for HE/HEAP weapons? (One of the biggest rivals to<BR>
> FGMPs is rocket grenade launchers...)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
My thinking is that point-defense weapons are mounted on ships at TL8, and<BR>
tanks at TL9, so by about TL12 you should have point defense systems for<BR>
individual troopers. Bascially, you have a helmet-mounted LADAR or other<BR>
sensor systems (stuff coming out of gun barrels is hot - you should get away<BR>
with a passive IR sensor, but I'll let Bruce answer that one definitivly)<BR>
linked to a small helmet-mounted laser (I'm thinking about a 20 meter range)<BR>
and it goes "zap" at anything aimed at the user.<BR>
<BR>
I'll have to play with building a 2 kJ helmet mounted TL12 laser.<BR>
<BR>
By TL11 tank-mounted PD systems should be able to hit slower rounds (such as<BR>
a medium-velocity 250 mm HEAP round), while by TL12-13 you should be able to<BR>
zap a hyper velocity gauss gun round.<BR>
<BR>
> Would you apply these formulae to vehicular weapons? That's actually where<BR>
> FFS2/FFS1 breaks down the worst relative to cannon; tank fusion weapons<BR>
are<BR>
> so much less effective than big MD guns that no-one in their right mind<BR>
would<BR>
> ever install the former. (cf TNE's "Trepida" tank, which is dominated in<BR>
price<BR>
> by a fusion gun that can barely penetrate its own (not very thick) front<BR>
> armour.)<BR>
<BR>
> FFS1 errata and FFS2 tried to tweak this but failed; the main reason is<BR>
that<BR>
> penetration of big MD or CPR guns is linear with energy in both, while<BR>
fusion<BR>
> guns remain sqrt(energy.)<BR>
<BR>
Well, under this the damage from KEAP is basically a sqrt(energy) function.<BR>
<BR>
HEAP and HE rounds would be affected by reactive and electrostatic armour,<BR>
and as I argued above all actual projectiles will be vulnerable to point<BR>
defense by TL 10 to 13 (and I put point defense on everything above a<BR>
battlefield taxi - and even on some of those).<BR>
<BR>
I expected the formula to break down somewhere around the megajoule range -<BR>
it was built for infantry and light anti-vehicle weapons (the way I figure<BR>
it, PCs will be firing their laser rifles at TL8 paramilitary APCs far more<BR>
than at TL12 MBTs).<BR>
<BR>
But I'll get to building some TL12 tanks with ESA and Reactive armour, and<BR>
see what sort of caliber I can slow down.<BR>
<BR>
I will be using the Striker design sequence for the box itself - I like the<BR>
ability to individually assign armour thicknesses and slopes (basically, you<BR>
assign armour per facing. Radical slope costs 30% of total volume, moderate<BR>
slope 10%).<BR>
<BR>
> One thought that did occur to me was to speed up the plasma coming out<BR>
> of fusion guns. If it were moving at ~10,000 km/s, while that wouldn't<BR>
> necessarily<BR>
> change the damage for a given energy, it would be fast enough to hit<BR>
> rapidly moving/evading grav tanks at planetary ranges - which a CPR gun<BR>
> wouldn't.<BR>
> A disadvantage of this is that it would (for a given energy) reduce<BR>
recoil.<BR>
<BR>
My thinking is that grav tanks would stay very close to the ground, so you<BR>
would be unlikely to have combat at ranges exceeding over 20 km. Too much<BR>
chance of having an entire battallion open up at you if you poke your head<BR>
over the horizon.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
PS This is the first cut of FFS3, right ? I think we shold concentrate on<BR>
making it work for sure at TL9-13, so as to best cover the TLs most<BR>
prevalent in the Imperium (and in Milleaux 0 and 200). What I'm thinking is<BR>
to keep most of the Striker I rules set (Frank Chadwick owns the rights,<BR>
right ?) and build a bunch of Strikerised FFS3 equipment.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:08:47 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
At 11:38 AM -0800 3/26/00, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 3/25/00 11:34 AM, David P. Summers<BR>
>summers@alum.mit.edu issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
>  > If anyone wants to see my Aramis subsector, let me know.  Or<BR>
>  > I can post it if someone has a place I can put it.  All in<BR>
>  > all, your maps are quite impressive....<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, post away! Maps, more maps, lots of really cool maps, uh huh, yeah, all<BR>
>these maps are quite impressive, and we need more maps of different sorts<BR>
>like demographics of sophonts, and maps showing who has access to better and<BR>
>more maps.<BR>
><BR>
>Did I mention I like maps?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't have anyplace to post it.  I never bothered to set up<BR>
a web site.  If someone wants to put it on their site, I'll<BR>
send it to them....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:16:47 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
Dismountable Tanks are in the MegaTraveller design sequence, along with<BR>
Colapsable Fuel Bladders  and Drop Tanks, IIRC.  Dismountable tanks require<BR>
you to re-calculate jump performance based on the new displacement (making<BR>
them useless on Jump-1 ships), whereas Colapsable Fuel Bladders only require<BR>
you to give up cargo space onboard.  MT didn't really describe Drop Tanks<BR>
very well, so I don't remember how they were supposed to work exactly.<BR>
<BR>
I haven't given Drop Tanks much thought myself - mostly because they haven't<BR>
come up in-game for me.  The Gazelle is the only ship that's specifically<BR>
designed to work with them, isn't it?<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]<BR>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 3:22 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
At 11:26 AM -0800 3/27/00, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 3/27/00 6:11 AM, Walter Smith SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU<BR>
>issued forth:<BR>
><BR>
>  > We've got new people on the list, though, there are certainly ones who<BR>
>  > haven't decided yet how jump tanks will work in their TU's.<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, and then somebody mentioned droptanks that went in jump with you to<BR>
>provide fuel after jump-exit. I had never thought of that.<BR>
<BR>
Tanks that you take with you (and add to your displacement for<BR>
that jump) aren't much of a problem.  It has been suggested that<BR>
these are call "demountable" tanks....<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in<BR>
California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:28:29 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: More Cool Maps<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin would put it up on Freelance Traveller, or check out<BR>
downport.com, they'll put it up too, I'd imagine.<BR>
<BR>
David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 11:38 AM -0800 3/26/00, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> >Via electronic medium on 3/25/00 11:34 AM, David P. Summers<BR>
> >summers@alum.mit.edu issued forth:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  > If anyone wants to see my Aramis subsector, let me know.  Or<BR>
> >  > I can post it if someone has a place I can put it.  All in<BR>
> >  > all, your maps are quite impressive....<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Yes, post away! Maps, more maps, lots of really cool maps, uh huh, yeah, all<BR>
> >these maps are quite impressive, and we need more maps of different sorts<BR>
> >like demographics of sophonts, and maps showing who has access to better and<BR>
> >more maps.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Did I mention I like maps?<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't have anyplace to post it.  I never bothered to set up<BR>
> a web site.  If someone wants to put it on their site, I'll<BR>
> send it to them....<BR>
> <BR>
> ______________________________<BR>
> summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:10:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> The problem is it'll spread a *lot*. The spread is controlled by the<BR>
>> size of the maser "aperture".<BR>
>><BR>
>> Anybody got figures for the diffraction spread for wavelength versus<BR>
>> diameter?<BR>
><BR>
> Let lambda denote the wavelength, and w0 denote the "beam waist," the<BR>
> minimum beam radius, which you can assume is the radius at the source in<BR>
> this scenario. Then for Gaussian beams (like lasers and masers) propagating<BR>
> along the z-axis we have:<BR>
><BR>
> w(z) = w0 * sqrt(1 + z^2/z0^2)<BR>
><BR>
> where z0 = pi * w0^2/lambda.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, lets assume a 1 cm wavelength and a 1 meter emitter:<BR>
<BR>
z0 = pi * 1^2/0.01<BR>
z0 = ~314<BR>
<BR>
At z = 1 parsec (3.085678e16 m)<BR>
<BR>
w(z) = 1 * sqrt(1+ 3.085678e16^2/314)<BR>
w(z) = ~9.64e27 m<BR>
<BR>
That *cannot* be right. That gives a spread of over 300 *billion*<BR>
parsecs in one parsec of travel...<BR>
<BR>
Something's *very* wrong with that formula.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:57:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
At 09:06 PM 3/27/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Case in point: James and I did ACQ essentially for free. (We got some cool<BR>
>>product in exchange), but we are now required to agree to Andy's terms on<BR>
>>several matters. Not that this is a problem, as Andy is one Froopy Dude!<BR>
><BR>
>Err, can you translate that from the American to English?<BR>
<BR>
Doug gives Dom the Penguin Stare of Death as he silently hands over a copy<BR>
of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," written by noted non-American<BR>
tea-sop Douglas Adams.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:36:02 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Brunching Shuttlecocks<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Here's me:<BR>
H.Y.P.H.E.N.: Hydraulic Youth Programmed for Hazardous Exploration and<BR>
Nullification<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:43:59 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab: Collace<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> (Bloo picked this world up, but it's in the subsector where I want to<BR>
> play, so I'll talk about it anyway. <G>)<BR>
<BR>
No sweat.<BR>
<BR>
> I was looking for a planet of my own, browsing through my copy of<BR>
> Galactic, when I saw that the tiny port of Binges (0805 District 268)<BR>
> was described as having put itself at risk of Imperial annexation<BR>
> by opening it's port to fleets from Collace during the Fifth Frontier War.<BR>
> The byline is Rob Dean, so this must be from the famous Dean Files.<BR>
> If this is accurate, then Collace was a belligerent during the FFW,<BR>
> against the Imperium...and considering how far away the nearest<BR>
> Zho or Sword World planets are, it was alone on this front while<BR>
> doing so.<BR>
<BR>
Do they have to have been a belligerent?  Couple of other possibilities<BR>
come to mind:<BR>
<BR>
 - Collace-Flagged Independent Traders selling weapons of mass<BR>
destruction and the like.  The traders interfere with Imperial operations<BR>
but aren't a direct military threat.<BR>
<BR>
 - A change of government at the end of FFW.<BR>
<BR>
> Collace is listed as a Client State in Galactic, and I don't have my<BR>
> copy of the Spinward Marches supplement with me. Did Collace<BR>
> (tech level D, population 1 billion) ally itself with the Zhodani and/or<BR>
> the Sword Worlds during the Fifth Frontier War? If so, who is it<BR>
> a client state of?<BR>
<BR>
I like the BtC right up, which says that Collace is trying to earn Imperial<BR>
membership, desiring to become subsector capital.  Combine this with<BR>
the 'cold war' with Trexalon, and the second suggestion above, and it<BR>
leads me to the material below.  Comments welcome<BR>
<BR>
- ------<BR>
Collace has long been an independent trading center, on the edge of<BR>
the Imperium.  Prior to the FFW, it had earned client status, with the<BR>
strong support of SuSAG, but was able to retain much more liberal<BR>
policies than normal Imperial member worlds.  These turning a blind<BR>
eye to mega-corp research into chemicals that are frowned upon by<BR>
the 3I (anagathics, psidrugs), [suggested by material in Tarsus set],<BR>
and the ease of obtaining Collace ship registration, with only casual<BR>
inspections and customs operations.<BR>
<BR>
During the Fifth Frontier War, indepedent, i.e., non-Imperial war<BR>
profiteers and arms merchants exploited the liberal ship registration<BR>
status of Collace, which permitted them access to Imperial<BR>
starports.  These trading activities interfered with Imperial attempts<BR>
ensure the security of the region.  Eventually, this tense stat of<BR>
affiars erupted into a catastrophic event:  a ship flying under the<BR>
flag of Collace was undergoing an customs inspection by 3I Naval<BR>
vessels.  What happened aboard the ship is unknown.  What is<BR>
known is that a very powerful nuclear explosive was detonated,<BR>
destroying the trader and the customs ship.  As a result, the 3I<BR>
cracked down, placing a quarantine on all Collace-flagged ships<BR>
at 3I starports for the duration of the FFW, goign so far as to<BR>
threaten the annexation of Binges for continuing to trade with<BR>
Collace ships after declaration of the quarantine.<BR>
<BR>
Tensions were greatly subsided when very pro-Imperial First<BR>
Speaker Shiru Shiragenad was elected, with the financial support<BR>
of SuSAG for his campaign.  It is commonly believed that<BR>
Count [insert name] of Glisten and Marquis [insert name] of<BR>
Mertactor, Admiral of the 100th Fleet, called in personal<BR>
favors to encourage SuSAG's cooperation.<BR>
<BR>
As a consequence of this new pro-Imperial outlook, tensions have<BR>
greatly increased between Collace and the anti-Imperial Trexalon,<BR>
center of the Trexalon Technical Consortium, which had benefitted<BR>
greatly by the previously liberal ship-flagging of Collace.<BR>
- --------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
NOTE TO LANDGRABBERS:<BR>
I think we need to centralize the Imperial nobles of the SM.<BR>
Certainly we know many.  But as many will be creating new<BR>
ones, a Heraldry report on the area peers would be very useful.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:43:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Another map update<BR>
<BR>
Corrected a few areas, arbitrarily changed some alliegance codes which seemed<BR>
fishy, added non-imperial worlds in blue to make it more obvious where <BR>
something is weird.  As always, http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/mains.gif <BR>
Also added a larger view of the spinward marches, deneb, and the top half of<BR>
trojan reaches and riftspan reaches; map at <BR>
http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/deneb.gif<BR>
<BR>
Comments on areas which still seem off?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:54:08 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 27 March 2000 22:45<BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 12:22 -0500 27/3/00, Penguin Boy wrote:<BR>
>> >Be careful.  Promises to do something for free CAN be legally<BR>
>> >enforceable, i.e., as valid as any other sort of contract.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Case in point: James and I did ACQ essentially for free. (We got some cool<BR>
>>product in exchange), but we are now required to agree to Andy's terms on<BR>
>>several matters. Not that this is a problem, as Andy is one Froopy Dude!<BR>
><BR>
>Err, can you translate that from the American to English?<BR>
><BR>
>Dom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
A stout yeoman of the first order <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:00:26 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
>I haven't given Drop Tanks much thought myself - mostly because they<BR>
haven't<BR>
>come up in-game for me.  The Gazelle is the only ship that's specifically<BR>
>designed to work with them, isn't it?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
IIRC the Gazelle is a TTL14 design, so that puts paid to the notion that<BR>
drop tanks are only developed at TTL15...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2198<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #2199</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 27 2000       Volume 1999 : Number 2199<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Classification of RPGs<BR>
Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
RE: Classification of RPGs<BR>
Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
Re: Traveller 3D maps and Computers at the game table<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
Trav Filk<BR>
Re: Black Curtain: MT revealed plotlines<BR>
Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
GMSound Software<BR>
OT: Golden Heroes (was Re: Classification of RPGs)<BR>
Re: Sabacc (was Re: gambling)<BR>
GRIP Traveller modules<BR>
Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
Re: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:57:20 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Classification of RPGs<BR>
<BR>
>Random Skill System: again, I don't know of any<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Golden Heroes?<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:02:30 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>None taken, but I do love to argue. Then again, I use a more technical<BR>
>definition of Argue, too. To argue is to present opinions and facts in<BR>
>order to sway the opinions of others.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<Monty Python><BR>
<BR>
No it isn't ! <g><BR>
<BR>
</Monty Python><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:03:52 -0700<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Classification of RPGs<BR>
<BR>
Never heard of it.  Do you roll all of your skills completely randomly, with<BR>
no character class or career or template or anything? <BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Matthew Bond [mailto:mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk]<BR>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 4:57 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Classification of RPGs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Random Skill System: again, I don't know of any<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Golden Heroes?<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:33:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fencing in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> There was a trilogy of books "The Wooden Spaceships", "Ragged<BR>
> Astronauts" and "Fugitive Worlds" by Bob Shaw. Good read, but not<BR>
> really much use for Traveller - except at binary planets.<BR>
<BR>
Not much good even then. If you read carefully, you'll see where Shaw<BR>
clues folks in about this happening in a different universe. <BR>
<BR>
You see, one of the characters calaculates the value of Pi as *3*.<BR>
<BR>
>> Wasn't there a science fiction milieu based on WOODEN starships?<BR>
<BR>
I rather like the one where antigravity is easy to discover ifyou<BR>
perform the proper experiment, and eventually leads to a hyperdrive.<BR>
But this is a dead end as it *doesn't* lead to regular physics, and<BR>
(apparently) interfers with the development of the scientific method.<BR>
<BR>
So here come these *huge* alien starships. They land on Earth and are<BR>
surrounded by the military, just in case. <BR>
<BR>
The aliens detected *no* use of antigravity or hyperdrive during their<BR>
approach, so we are obviously fairly primitive. They open their ships,<BR>
and debark their troops (armed with *flintlocks* and proceed with<BR>
*their* standard "contact procedure for primitive worlds. Namely, shoot<BR>
a few of the wogs to show who's boss now.<BR>
<BR>
The Earth troops return fire with automatic weapons, tanks, RPGs, and<BR>
anti-tank rockets.<BR>
<BR>
50 years later, Earth has conquered a huge empire. 100 years later,<BR>
it's all fallen apart because we expanded too fast...<BR>
<BR>
There are only two stories set in this universe. I think they are by<BR>
Turtledove. <BR>
<BR>
ps. There's mention of one race that discovered CG and hyperdrive<BR>
before they learned to work iron. They flew *bronze* spaceships.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:44:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller 3D maps and Computers at the game table<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 22:10 26.03.00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>> [snip: two-plane 3D star map]<BR>
>><BR>
>>> *sigh* <BR>
>>> And now try to make up a jump _route_...let's say, along a line of five to<BR>
>>> ten star systems.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> You see?<BR>
>>> :(<BR>
>><BR>
>>On a model, you just use colored thread for the "fixed" routes. <BR>
><BR>
> True. One could summarize it as: <BR>
> Astonishingly, a 3D space that is to be mapped as 3D requires a 3D map...<BR>
> :-)<BR>
> Either on a computer or a true model. Which is a lot of work for a<BR>
> large-scale space opera setting.<BR>
><BR>
> And one schould not forget that the practical size for a "real" or "hard"<BR>
> model should be roughly at subsector level. Now id you want your campaign t<BR>
> take place in _several_ subsectors, possibly arranged in a cube, complexity<BR>
> of the task increases again, especially for making up trans-subsector jump<BR>
> routes.<BR>
<BR>
But if you figure the size of a "subsector" in terms of number of<BR>
*systems*, then a 3d subsectr isn't all that big. The maps in both SPIs<BR>
"Starforce: Alpha Centauri" and in 2300 AD have several *sectors* worth<BR>
of systems, and are only about 25 light years (8 parsecs!) in radius.<BR>
<BR>
>>> Ooh. No, a computer at the game table is IMHO the best way to split your<BR>
>>> player's attention. I wouldn't do that. Really.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Depends on the computer. And how it is used.<BR>
><BR>
> :) <BR>
> Well, I would want the computers to run a multi-user OS like Linux or NT.<BR>
> Or some OS with Novell with the GM's machine as server...<BR>
<BR>
I'm *running* a Novell server, with a 10-user license. And I plan on<BR>
adding a Linux box. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> anyway, the<BR>
> effort required to install and configure the machines is not to be taken<BR>
> lightly.<BR>
<BR>
As I noted, I currently have 3 systems on the LAN. And plan to add more.<BR>
<BR>
> And remember that there are players who do not want to use a<BR>
> computer... though they won't probably play Traveller, so forget that<BR>
> point...:)<BR>
<BR>
At one time, I was planning on a setup using Tandy Model 100 notebook<BR>
computers are player terminals (this was intended for D&D), with a<BR>
decent serial port, 40x8 text, 240x64 graphics, and 32k to stick the<BR>
"terminal program" in (which wouldn't take much as the 32k of ROM in<BR>
the system already had a terminal program, and BASIC and a text editor,<BR>
all with heavily documented function calls). <BR>
<BR>
For traveller, I'd want a bigger display. <BR>
<BR>
> I have no practical experince with computers at the game table, but I feel<BR>
> it's not worth the effort...<BR>
<BR>
Well, part of my idea was solving the old problem of different<BR>
characters being able to notice ("see") different things in the<BR>
dungeon. <BR>
<BR>
That's not an issue in traveller. Still, some older PDAs might be a<BR>
useful item. Have them set up to be "consoles" and "data terminals for<BR>
when characters need to check something.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:46:37 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:15:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
> Subject: Maps Page Updated<BR>
> <BR>
> As noted, I updated my maps page; fixed a couple of errors in WTN computation<BR>
> (most of which aren't relevant), and made the map actually work via jump lines,<BR>
> rather than by simply comparing distances (so it actually shows the jump<BR>
> routes).  Once again:<BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/ac_jackson/trav/maps.html<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Very cool. I liked the previous mains.gif map better (it's now by<BR>
background) but only because it look cooler. <BR>
<BR>
	After seeing the Vland main, I can see why the First Imperium choose to<BR>
expand rimward and to trailing rather than in a circular pattern or to<BR>
spinward or to coreward. <BR>
<BR>
	My only other request would be to regenerate the sm.gif map (the first<BR>
one on the page) so the dots align vertically and not horizontally. <BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:08:11 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Mar 00, at 14:20, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:53 PM +1200 3/27/00, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> >Nothing in the above text requires fuel during jump. If the drive only<BR>
> >runs at jump initiation you only need coolant then, and the bubble could<BR>
> >well be set up at the begining of the jump and left alone for the jump's<BR>
> >duration.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> The main problem that jump bubbles have with drop tanks is that<BR>
> you have to invoke at least the formation of some entrance to<BR>
> jump space before the tanks are jetissoned.  Then you have to<BR>
> get the reader to accept that for some reason the 100 diam<BR>
> limit is crucial, but not so crucial that you can't safely<BR>
> generate the entrance ot jump space.  That is counter<BR>
> intuitive.<BR>
<BR>
I presume that you're talking about the need to get the tanks outside <BR>
100 diameters of the ship. If so just use the argument that 100 <BR>
diameters is a rule of thumb for a gradient based rule. Using this rule <BR>
a Gazelle needs only about a 6m seperation from its tanks before jump.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:10:38 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> These debates on RPG evolution have been very interesting, if they are<BR>
> driving Trav folks nuts, we could move it to A Gamer's Life(very quiet<BR>
list,<BR>
> I've been thinking about stirring the kettle over there when I find some<BR>
> time). I am still working on a Storyteller style rule set for Traveller,<BR>
and<BR>
> have found this thread quite inspiring.<BR>
<BR>
    Well, I haven't seen any negative feedback and with the noise ratio on<BR>
this list, I don't know if anyone would mind such discussion since they are<BR>
talking about Traveller a lot.<BR>
    However, I would much rather be discussing the systems than defending<BR>
my stance on them :-)  The discussion definitely told me that it's about<BR>
time to broaden the categories that I use though.<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:15:50 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ok, lets assume a 1 cm wavelength and a 1 meter emitter:<BR>
><BR>
> z0 = pi * 1^2/0.01<BR>
> z0 = ~314<BR>
><BR>
> At z = 1 parsec (3.085678e16 m)<BR>
><BR>
> w(z) = 1 * sqrt(1+ 3.085678e16^2/314)<BR>
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
> w(z) = ~9.64e27 m<BR>
><BR>
> That *cannot* be right. That gives a spread of over 300 *billion*<BR>
> parsecs in one parsec of travel...<BR>
><BR>
> Something's *very* wrong with that formula.<BR>
<BR>
Check your arithmetic. Using those numbers, you get w(z)~=1e14 m.<BR>
<BR>
Call a parsec about pi * 10^16 m. Then we have about (pi * 10^16)/(pi *<BR>
10^2) = 1e14.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:44:25 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Contract Law 101<BR>
<BR>
How would tasks/favors/boons done for "free" translate it to "contracts" in<BR>
certain cultures in traveller.  For instance, could not the saving of a life<BR>
by a PC in make the "good Samaritan" responsible for that life in certain<BR>
cultural settings.  Conversely if a PC's life was saved could not that PC<BR>
incur a "life long" obligation.  How would such situations transcend the<BR>
races?  Are such debts between say an Aslan or Vargr and a member of humanti<BR>
likely/possible/common.  It would seem to me, based on what little lore I am<BR>
aware regarding very low tech to higher tech human cultural interactions in<BR>
the 18 and 19th centuries, that it might be an interesting plot twist.<BR>
Anyone run this particular wrinkle in their game?<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:19:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Classes and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> Jesse, I think you need to be more careful in your choices of wording<BR>
here.<BR>
> I included Car Wars as a roleplaying game. It does do roleplaying. SFB<BR>
> Proper is nothing even related to roleplaying as it is now understood.<BR>
> Those who operate under the assumptions of say, 1977, might consider it<BR>
> roleplaying, but....<BR>
<BR>
    Hmm... Okay, I've tried real role-playing with CW and it just didn't<BR>
seem to<BR>
have enough of a support system behind it to really RP with. Maybe the<BR>
GURPs or Autoduel Champions rules added enough to allow for that though.<BR>
    Hey, is there a Hero system version of Traveller- or is it just covered<BR>
under<BR>
GURPs?<BR>
<BR>
> >    I'm not sure about Oregon, but I can say that attempts to base the<BR>
> >hierarchy<BR>
> >in Alaska will put you a good year or two behind- At least in the<BR>
Anchorage<BR>
> >area<BR>
> >unless a lot has changed there in the last two years :-)<BR>
<BR>
> I think you've a very different experience with Anchorage. I've lived here<BR>
> 28 years, and been on the nets for at least 15 of them. What people are<BR>
> playing in Anchorage tends to match what other connected types are playing<BR>
> WITHIN MONTHS. Since 1985, Bosco's Comics and Games has always had the<BR>
> latest and greatest. If you were in Anchorage, and DIDN'T deal with<BR>
> Bosco's, you were not a real gamer.<BR>
<BR>
    Where do you live at there?  I was there from 90-97 and dealt with<BR>
Bosco's regularly.  I always thought that their supply of new stuff always<BR>
sucked, although they had a pretty awesome supply of OOP materials.<BR>
    It may just be the supplements that I was having a problem with though,<BR>
considering that I had all of the games that I intended to play at the time.<BR>
<BR>
> TNE and CE are very different in not only mechanics, but undelying<BR>
> assumptions of how people learn, how skills relate to attributes, how the<BR>
> universe works...<BR>
<BR>
CE? Did you meant CT or something else?<BR>
<BR>
> >    Anyway, has anyone noticed how one thread with a relatively harmless<BR>
> >comment in relation to explaining what a person is trying to say will<BR>
lead<BR>
> >to several arguments/discussions nowhere near related to the original?<BR>
> This list is nothing. You should been on WWIV-net in the 80's. ;)<BR>
<BR>
    Actually, I'm on about 20 ML's and there is plenty of noise on most of<BR>
them :-)<BR>
<BR>
> >    Is it just me or does it seem that people really do like to argue?<BR>
(Not<BR>
> >targetted at you William- don't take offense :-)<BR>
> None taken, but I do love to argue. Then again, I use a more technical<BR>
> definition of Argue, too. To argue is to present opinions and facts in<BR>
> order to sway the opinions of others.<BR>
> William F. Hostman<BR>
<BR>
    I can see it coming already...  The heirarchy of argument styles and<BR>
the various generations thereof :-)<BR>
<BR>
Take care and good gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse.<BR>
vanquer@email.msn.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:36:22 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Trav Filk<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
OK, you're going to shoot me, but here is a partial filk (sans chorus) inspired<BR>
by Doug's "works of art" (sung to Tommy Steele's "What a Mouth", c. 1965):<BR>
<BR>
Now the poor ol' Dul<BR>
Being a short-sighted fella<BR>
When he saw that throne<BR>
He took it, bein' yella,<BR>
And he shot<BR>
The lot<BR>
Right into ol' Streph, no "duke"!<BR>
Now Dul poor soul's<BR>
Got the Imperium to hold<BR>
And he's off now fighting Luc!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:37:24 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain: MT revealed plotlines<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
John asked:<BR>
>> (much like DGP "spilled the beans" on some of their<BR>
>> plots in the final MTJ#4<BR>
>> issue)?<BR>
><BR>
>Which plotlines did they solve?<BR>
<BR>
The "Baddies From The Core" plotline - that is, who were the Primordials that<BR>
were seen in "Knightfall".<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:37:36 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Maps Page Updated<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Bill asked:<BR>
>Wow. I love the maps. I do have one question though. Given  this form of<BR>
>analysis, do the UWP stats generated by GDW jive with the historical<BR>
>narrative?<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>Were the sectors<BR>
>generated using different methods that favored the UWP stats for the<BR>
>Solomani Rim and surroundings? Or are we just seeing a logical<BR>
>disconnection?<BR>
<BR>
The Sol Rim was generated with an algorithm that produced higher populations and<BR>
a more homogeneous TL spread.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:50:16 -0800<BR>
From: Justin Engler <jengler@u.washington.edu><BR>
Subject: GMSound Software<BR>
<BR>
Brothers and Sisters of the TML,<BR>
<BR>
In my never-ending quest for quality GM-assistant software, I decided it<BR>
would be nice to have a program to play an assortment of wave files<BR>
quickly and easily.  After searching in vain for such a program, I<BR>
decided it was time to buckle down, polish my C++ skills, and write my<BR>
own.   Thus, GMSound ver. 1.0 was born.<BR>
<BR>
http://students.washington.edu/jengler/software.html<BR>
<BR>
Please give it a try, and send any bug<BR>
reports/gripes/suggestions/rants/raves to rpgtools@yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
Webmasters, feel free to link to the page if you feel it belongs in the<BR>
software section of your Traveller (or whatever else) site...all I ask<BR>
is that you drop me a line at rpgtools@yahoo.com so I can inform you if<BR>
the address changes.<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy!<BR>
<BR>
  - Justin<BR>
<BR>
- --------------------------------<BR>
   -Engler/Bush Productions<BR>
- --------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:59:45 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: OT: Golden Heroes (was Re: Classification of RPGs)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Jason Postma <JasonP@i-link.net><BR>
>>>Random Skill System: again, I don't know of any<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>>Golden Heroes?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Matt<BR>
><BR>
>Never heard of it.  Do you roll all of your skills completely randomly,<BR>
with<BR>
>no character class or career or template or anything?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yup, It's an OOP Superhero game from the mid-eighties, published by Games<BR>
Workshop.<BR>
<BR>
Random stats, random number of powers/advantageous backgrounds, each rolled<BR>
randomly (though you can sometimes choose to upgrade an already rolled power<BR>
instead of rolling dice for another power).<BR>
<BR>
You then come up with a background to justify your powers, discarding any<BR>
that don't fit with your creation as a hero. (the game assumes some level of<BR>
maturity in the players, in that it expects you not to attempt to justify<BR>
them all)<BR>
<BR>
It has an excellent campaign rating system (which even detractors of the<BR>
game often admire) and is a quick simple way of recreating Four-Colour<BR>
Superheroes.<BR>
<BR>
No mucking around trying to recreate Spidey's wallclimbing by using some<BR>
weird multi-power speed  and gravity control only when touching a wall a la<BR>
Champions. You either have the Wallclimbing power or you don't. Want to<BR>
create a new power? Discuss it with the GM (called SS for Scenario<BR>
Supervisor in GH <g>) and come up with a paragraph or so of its game effects<BR>
and thats the power and this is how it works. Simple, but effective.<BR>
<BR>
Of course if the thought of *everything* being randomly rolled is abhorrent,<BR>
you can always say to the SS "This is the type of character I want to play",<BR>
and between you you can pick a set of suitable powers and develop your<BR>
background ( or Rationale, as GH has it)<BR>
<BR>
I love it, and am currently playing in a PBeM at background for which is at<BR>
http://gh.avigne.org/ (my character is The White Knight) There is a link<BR>
from there to the basic rules that one of the authors (Simon Burley) is<BR>
gradually placing on the web.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Has anyone tried modifying GH's campaign ratings for use in any<BR>
version of Traveller? If so, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
(who, as the White Knight, is already wearing Flameproof Armour. Take your<BR>
best shot!!!! <g, d & r>)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:06:57 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Sabacc (was Re: gambling)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:20 AM 3/27/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> >I think "smart cards" (which we will have to assume are tamper proof,<BR>
> >or they aren't usable) would make for interesting versions a lot of<BR>
> >games.<BR>
><BR>
>I recall technology for cheating at Sabacc being mentioned in some of<BR>
>the Star Wars novels. IIRC, a hero was winning at Sabacc and one of<BR>
>the loser's friends slipped a cheater module into the hero's pocket.<BR>
>The cheater module would supposedly allow the gambler to control the<BR>
>card switches. The loser then accused the hero of cheating, and you can<BR>
>guess what happened when the other patrons of the establishment<BR>
>searched the hero and found the evidence on him.<BR>
><BR>
>The existence of such cheater modules is problematic, though. They<BR>
>must only work for someone actually holding cards (through skin<BR>
>conductance?), otherwise anyone standing in the room could fix<BR>
>a Sabacc game.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, that was in the first Lando adventure. The game in question was being <BR>
played in a back room with few bystanders. I can't remember if there was a <BR>
way for big casinos to either detect or jam a cheater module.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:58:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: GRIP Traveller modules<BR>
<BR>
I noticed that two GRIP (http://www.rpgrealms.com/Traveller/) modules are<BR>
available for CT: The Kinunir, and Research Station Gamma. Has anyone seen<BR>
these? Good? Bad?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:10:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: GT Tech Issue: Why *NOT* drop tanks? [LONG]<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:53 PM +1200 3/27/00, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
>>Nothing in the above text requires fuel during jump. If the drive only<BR>
>>runs at jump initiation you only need coolant then, and the bubble<BR>
>>could well be set up at the begining of the jump and left alone for the<BR>
>>jump's duration.<BR>
><BR>
> The main problem that jump bubbles have with drop tanks is that<BR>
> you have to invoke at least the formation of some entrance to<BR>
> jump space before the tanks are jetissoned.  Then you have to<BR>
> get the reader to accept that for some reason the 100 diam<BR>
> limit is crucial, but not so crucial that you can't safely<BR>
> generate the entrance ot jump space.  That is counter<BR>
> intuitive.<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you use the M/R^3 "tidal force" model for jump limits, then<BR>
the tanks don't have to be all that far away, because they have so<BR>
little *mass*. BTW, one of the reasons I went to the trouble of<BR>
*finding* a mass-based formula was because otherwise it gets *really*<BR>
ugly trying to make rulings about whether or not an attacker is close<BR>
enough to stop you from jumping...<BR>
<BR>
And in a way, you've just made an argument in favor of ships being<BR>
*required* to have internal tankage. They pump from the drop tanks, and<BR>
while STILL BUILDING TOWARDS JUMP the tanks are jettisons, and the<BR>
final amount of LH2 comes from the *internal* tanks, while the drop<BR>
tanks are moving far enough away. <BR>
<BR>
You could even make it a rule. Say the last 5% of the fuel for a jump<BR>
has to come from internal tankage. That ought to solve a *lot* of<BR>
problems. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:46:12 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
<BR>
Don't know about having a game (time, that sort of stuff), but anyone would<BR>
be welcomed up this way in Brisbane (well, the Gold Coast actually :)<BR>
anyway! :^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Cc: <loup_wolf@hotmail.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 11:18 AM<BR>
Subject: OT: TMLer Visiting Oz<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
> Andrew wrote:<BR>
> >I'm lucky enough to be spending the month of April in Sydney and was<BR>
> >wondering if there are any TML's / RPGs in the area that I could get in<BR>
> >touch with for a game or two while I'm in town?<BR>
><BR>
> Only if you are visiting Canberra.<BR>
><BR>
> Or Brisbane - Roc?<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:23:12 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: EW & Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/27/00 11:48:04 AM !!!First Boot!!!, volker@greimann.de <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Yup, like the former chancellor of Germany, Kohl, who took illegal <BR>
 contributions to his parties funds and still refused to tell who gave those <BR>
 contributions, because ha gave his word. The law says he has to tell.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Fine; then he goes to jail for the German equivelent of the American criminal <BR>
charge of "Contempt of Court" or possibly "withholding evidence"...Honor AND <BR>
justice are served...<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: this is obvious. A noble PC gives his/her word despite the <BR>
repercussions...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #2199<BR>
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